Economist breaks down how the Treasury ruins the UK | Paul Collier interview
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 17 дек 2024
- Paul Collier is an academic at the University of Oxford, an economist and author of Left Behind: A new economics for neglected places.
He came by JOE Towers to chat to us about poverty, the civil service, and how the two intersect to maintain inequality in the UK.
Subscribe to our new podcast now, or you're a silly goose:
linktr.ee/pubcast
Born and raised in Blackpool lad here- We all know the situation at this point. I grew up in one of the most deprived parts of the country surrounded by drug and alcohol abuse, crime etc. Luckily I spend most of my time either at school or indoors playing video games, so managed to dodge the larger evils for a lesser one. I had wondered why I have struggled with mental health for a large part of my life, but honestly in retrospect it makes perfect sense. Everybody here in the poorer areas are on antidepressants or self-medicating. We're told it's a chemical imbalance and we should talk with a therapist (meaning 4 sessions of CBT) when the reality is for most that our lives are just a dystopian shitstorm of mundane, mind-numbing and yet extremely stressful hoop-jumping just to survive. Therapy is great for those who are living comfortably. Not for people who can't have their basic needs met. The middle and upper classes have no empathy or understanding for this. When you're living in a place with harsh weather, post-apocalyptic living conditions, surrounded by poverty and despair with no friends, family or partner it is hard to find much motivation to do anything. No community, nothing. Personally I'm very proud of myself for having not killed myself yet, and I'm proud of everybody else struggling here that hasn't either- I can certainly understand those who do.
I'm from Middlesbrough, similar story. We have all lost too many people to exactly what you are talking about, it's social murder. Stay strong brother
@@denism8494 - I am from Thornaby, born and raised. As a third-generation Pakistani, I agree with you.
Oh wow, just got to the point in the interview where he singles out Blackpool and Grimsby as the poorest areas. I already knew it but it felt weird to be called out like that.
I think these coastal towns might have been the first to fall into deprivation but now many areas of the country are falling into what Blackpool was 25 years ago
You put it very well. I am a therapist (definitely not CBT) and a large part of the profession exists purely to medicalise social problems.
Very moving and accurate post. Thanks for sharing.
Nepotism and privilege are still entrenched in Britain. Optimisation is looked down upon. Forget ability and talent, in breeding rocks.
Sue Gray's son was given a safe Labour seat.
@stephfoxwell4620 yes I remember.
It's not what you know. It's who you know.
@supremeownage8995 Yes. Just look at the BBC. 43% of staff privately educated.
17% of staff the children of previous staff.
Used to be that at least the talent usually came from common stock, but that has changed too. Film, music and the arts are full of private schoolies who got there by the Bank of Mummy and Daddy.
Not connecting HS2 to HS1 was an economic tragedy. Euston and St Pancras are just 600m apart, but that gap cuts the Midlands and North of England off from Europe. Business people from Paris and Rotterdam will not be connected to Birmingham anf Manchester because London created a barrier
Pure insanity
If London really believed in an equal Union with Scotland and leveling up the North of England HS2 would go to Edinburgh.
We have a high speed connection with London and the Noth, that is the East Coast line and it could have been improved to connect much to Europe.
The West of the UK made its connection with the Atlantic trade.
Each coast has its advantages, and it should focus on that.
Trying to tackle topography and geology simply by enbebting the nation for a marginal benefit is no solution.
Oh ! It's going to Euston is it ? In my lifetime ?? HS2 : the railway from nowhere to somewhere (?)
An ill informed comment.
Good work Joe Dugmore.
I think it's fair to say thanks Joe after he Oli suggested we should all go and watch his book 😶🌫
Oli is temporary, JOE is forever
It's him: Politics Joe.
To be fair it's a reasonable assumption especially for his generation.
When you get incompetent people in top jobs. You can be pretty sure they got those roles largely on the basis of coming from the right families or running in the right circles in their youth.
Like boris Johnson for example. In any other walk of life his failures would see him face consequences
You also get compliance. Generally the meritless appointee is not gonna disagree with anything their appointer does and so it continues.
Britain is an ELITIST HELL HOLE, you can be a complete idiot and speak like a TOFF and you'll get the job.....
A key fundamental miss here is the deindustrialization of the UK, which has made everywhere north of Oxford or west of Bristol, dirt poor. Industry has been decimated by successive governments in the UK.
Kind of. This phenomenon has been happening across Europe and the US. It’s just Europe has been better at supporting and protecting the workers and the communities they come from.
@@peteradaniel
It hasn't happened in Germany which was the world's second largest manufacturer until fairly recently when the US took out Nordstream and they lost their source of cheap energy.
@@gregoryjames165 It's definitely happening in Germany now and the green agenda is accelerating the event.
@@peteradaniel Kind of. Germany never did but shifted its industrial focus, whereas the UK went all in on services and the global economy. France almost did the same but was abit smarter with what it cut tbh.
I was studying manufacturing in 2015, my education was pretty much to align the UK with German industry. The British honestly don't know what they want, if we have industry here, we also need some material extraction, either we start digging again or we need to align with Europe. The resonable approach ended with Brexit, either one or the other and it is killing us. Simple fact is if you want the rest of the nation to be productive you kind need them producing something more than just services. We can't rely on China to provide cheap stuff to lower earners forever lol.
This isn't a problem with deindustrialisation in particular. Industrialisation actually created vast inequality in the UK, to the point where it depopulated rural areas in favour of the cities. This happened in China as well.
Virtually every economic change creates winners and losers. Brexit created more inequality, but Rejoining (after a long time) will also cause more inequality. Any dramatic change in the economy creates inequality.
Similarly, industrialisation will not fix the inequality created by deindustrialisation. On its own, it will just create more inequality.
The real problem is how to deal with economically-induced inequality.
So nice of THE Joe to come on and conduct this interview. What a privilege.
He knows he's not called Joe, he's being unserious - it's typical uni lecturer humour
Does he?
I did wonder this, but I couldn't tell if he was meaning "Joe" in regards for the channel or not. He seems switched on enough that he wouldn't forget Oli's name.
I was told if I work really hard I will have a safe and comfortable life. That my efforts will make a difference and I will have security for my old age. All absolute nonsense in the UK. They stole my pension when I had an accident at work and claimed UC. Now im trapped in poverty.
Sorry to hear that
I'm having trouble understanding how they stole your pension, could you explain how that happened?
What are you gonna do Joe?
He’s talking to us all
Ask Just stop Oil what happens when you jam yourself into the cogs
@@toyotaprius79 Don't waste your breath asking the farmers that have very recently done the same, though
I can see why you are a prestigious teacher. You explain succinctly and gently without being intimidating. Even I understand 😊
What people don't realise is that during the decades after WW2 Western Europe offered a good life to the average citizen BECAUSE of communism in Eastern Europe. Communists introduced free education and free healthcare for all, the dignity of the worker grew immensely. Western European ruling classes were terrified of the revolution spreading into their countries. So they made sure that their people not only got what people had in socialist countries, but even more than that. That wasn't because the ruling classes became less selfish, but because they were scared. And the moment communism was defeated in Europe, the process of rolling back the rights and accumulating material assets began.
The fact that people born in the 50s and people born in the 90s have had very different chances of buying a house, is not a coincidence.
Exactly, 100% correct. Wish more would pay attention to the actual motives and mechanisms that drive these societal changes. It doesn't happen by accident that each generation of ordinary people gets poorer as the richest 0.1% increase their wealth enormously year on year
@@frusia123 interesting concept. In this day and age it’s impossible to mobilise a revolution. I am an Australian living in Ukraine and I see people accepting bad life outcomes. There’s a rich elite in Ukraine, they pay minimal tax. But there’s no revolution because everyone is gaming the system to survive .
Reply to @frusia123
Communism in Russia and China and Cambodia and Vietnam got alot of people killed. Democracy is very new to the world and both men and women only got the vote at age 21 in 1918 or thereabouts in the UK. This lead to Labor governments who actually care about the people. After WW2 they built alot of houses which is the number one thing governments should make sure there are enough of. Prosperity only lasted a few decades after that and then Thatcher sold off all the council houses and didn't build anymore, and neither did successive governments. So the UK is short 5 million council houses now. Housing shortage is the number one problem in the UK and most places around the world. Its complete stupidity amongst the voting public and the political class that has destroyed the UK. If the public were intelligent they would invent intelligent political parties with intelligent policies but they didn't. Its possible to have a very high quality standard of living without much money or much industry or many national resources if the people and the political class make good decisions.
thats why they were all alcoholics then ?
Well this was all pretty much spot on… from someone who worked in Treasury (HMT) until this earlier this year. For context I joined HMT on its apprenticeship scheme (itself a bit of a con as it’s just a way of bringing in dirt cheap labour who then can do all the jobs that no one else wants to do) - genuine senior interest in upskilling and diversifying the organisation was completely absent, at least during my time there. Upon joining, immediately I was struck by the types of people working there. Young, many privately educated, oxbridge/red brick uni degrees normally in some PPE related area. Very few I met had technical degrees (STEM for example) and almost everyone was a ‘generalist’.
Representation of ethnic minorities and those from different socio-economic backgrounds was dire. I knew someone there who’s dad was a column writer for the times is a good example of the ‘type’ there. I should be clear this isn’t to say they were bad people, in fact overwhelmingly most people there were very nice, however the diversity of the people there left much to be deserved - in terms of perspectives as well as background. Another good example was the recollection of shock and horror from older colleagues about brexit and how post 2016 referendum they couldn’t believe leave had won - again a marker of people who have very certain kind of social circles (I didn’t vote leave but knew plenty who did so was never a surprise and certainly not a shock to my understanding of the world!! See former FCDO chief Lord McDonald as a good example of this).
Quite frankly the department was a shambles. The progression system was so bad that HMT had to demerge a combined junior grade into 2 new seperate job grades just so people had something to move up into after finishing the graduate scheme which most of everyone at junior level joins via (the number of apprentices was very small in comparison to the larger, prestigious and more institutionally backed grad scheme). Constant vibe that the apprenticeship scheme was a complete afterthought and not taken seriously. Organisation was elitist and many colleagues spent more time trying to appear smarter than everyone else than you know, come up with good policy in the national interest. As noted in the interview, playing the ‘HR game’ was standard practise and the dept still runs a bizarre unspoken system where there is a shadow queue for promotion (if you went for a role and didn’t get it but passed the criteria to get it, eg someone else marked higher than you, then the next role you go for, whatever it may be, then high chance it’s yours!)
Reputational games and jockeying for position also commonplace. I could go on but psychoanalysing HMT’s many neuroses deserves a book rather then a RUclips comment. I can’t really describe the department better than a place where social mobility, vision and national interest go to die.
Tbh it’s frustrating that Treasury brain has only just started becoming a more mainstream meme - it’s a huge part of why governance of the UK has been an utter shambles for over 20 years. Like myself, anyone from outside that insular, exclusionary world who has had first hand experience of HMT walks away clear-eyed of the how and why we are in the mess we are in.
What does the HR game mean?
@@BruceLee-fd7uw HR stands for Human Resources and HR game means the game of climbing the ladder of promotions as fast as possible at all cost in order to get the better pay instead of receiving a promotion based on results derived from actual impact of one's labour. Most corporations have this HR game due to complacency, greed, corruption etc
@florinmoldovanu Thank you 😊
UK government just approved the sale of the royal mail to Czech billionaire. Would you pls explain how that happened and why? Also, how is this in the best interest of the British public to carve off the country for profit??
I bet he's as much Czech as Soros is Hungarian. I suggested you read The History Of Central Banking by Stephan Mitford Goodson. Read eye opener.
It is a zion club and you are not in it.
@Stormer-Europa thanks, I will read this book. Need a better understanding of the monetary system.
@@Jonas-sw8mj FIAT wage-slave/debt system based on worthless pieces of paper.
@Stormer-Europa That is just anti-Semitism: the book. Which is badly disguised as going against the elite instead of jews.
Uk government is sick to the core
You've missed understood the conversation, the government are nothing more than agents for the ruling class. They are ugly, stupid, traitors, they have no actual power, they simply create drama for the working class as a distraction from the wealth theft and exploitation of people.
Buckminster Fullers book Grunch of Giants covered a lot about the "system" in the early 80's which inspired the Zeitgeist movies (worth a watch -a bit airy fairy too IMO) by Peter joseph, it's a management issue.
I’m based in the Midlands, I remember at work being given an impossible tech project as a technical architect with a budget of 10k. Oddly enough at the same time a big compony in London was given the same project with a budget of 500 million. I completed the project successfully, and the performance was a 500% improvement! I was ousted very quickly because I had the cheek to ask for a pay rise and a promotion.😂😂
I’ve basically been a book with some good smarts in it, but with the wrong cover from all angles which means I can't sit on the shelf, and I’ve also learnt
Their are some very smart looking books with amazing elegant covers but no content.😂 It is what it is 🤣
tech workers get no recognition or respect in the UK. I moved to the US and got 5x the pay for the same or less work. Shame the place is full of Americans.
I would love to hear more about that technical project, I've done a few myself and appreciate the buzz. 🙏👍
@ Big data project, loads of calculations and thinking out the box. I had a great set of developers to problem solve each milestone. Smallish team with loads of passion and vision can move mountains. I’ve now moved on to teaching instead of solving problems for other people 😂
I cry over the terrible waste of the undiscovered talents of these folk. My two colleagues at Uni came from Huddersfield, both geniuses, advanced of me by a head and shoulders. These days such chances don't exists to get an education.
What do they do now?
@greencoolmoss An electrical engineer and research biochemist. Actually, both died of cancer unexpectedly.
@@nickbarton3191 Or what does happen is that the brightest people from those areas just move to London.
Having worked and delivered at the Treasury. I can say with experience that he’s absolutely right. But also one of the problems at treasury is that it’s run by economists. More management accountant doing work type behaviour is needed. Not the never ending stream of people who tell you their job is economic policy. Great video full of truth the average person doesn’t see
Please have more from this man the wider topics he’s raised need more discussion please to bring awareness and hopefully change for the better of the majority
Fascinating insight into the rotten core of a failing nation👏👏👏
I'm from an advanced western country that is more wealthy and advanced then the UK. I worked in London as a visiting consultant for a number of years and couldn't believe the level of cynicism and fatalism in many (not all) colleagues. The dragged everyone down and gummed up the works, but more disheartening, were not called out for it. That's an observation spanning almost two decades. Britain is goosed. You can come back from that.
It's more British culture, they have a more negative 'must be nice for you' attitude, I don't think anyone can do anything about it.
Double Entry Accounting is SEVEN HUNDRED YEARS old. The United States could have made accounting mandatory in high schools since the 1950s. No one in Authority in this supposedly Capitalist country suggests that.
However:
In *Wealth of Nations* Adam Smith wrote "read, write and ACCOUNT" multiple times. He also used the word 'education' Eighty Times. The book has been free on the Internet since 2001. Check it yourself.
Oh, and that *Invisible Hand* which we hear about all of the time, it can be counted on ONE FINGER in the 1200 page book.
Trusting the Capitalists to control the narrative about Capitalism is Really DUMB!
Well said!
It's all about choices!
Western society completely embraced capitalism remember?
As Churchill (an aristocratic capitalist the worst kind) would say, "Capitalism is the best system that money can buy!"
For the rest you it's "trickle down economy", "bread crumbs", "Dickensian economy"!
Welcome to freedom!
Only in the west "never before seen, where so many are owned by so few quite literally" -Anon.
'I really feel your pain, Joe.' ROFL
Don't simply retire from something; have something to retire to. Start saving, keep saving, and stick to investments. Everyone should have BTC in their portfolio🌲.
It’s really heartbreaking to see how inflation and recession impact low-income families. The cost of living keeps rising, and many struggle just to meet basic needs, let alone save or invest. It’s a reminder of the importance of finding ways to create financial opportunities. You've helped me a lot sir Robert! Imagine i invested $50,000 and received $190,500 after 14 days
Absolutely! Profits are possible, especially now, but complex transactions should be handled by experienced market professionals.
Some persons think inves'tin is all about buying stocks; I think going into the stock market without a good experience is a big risk, that's why I'm lucky to have seen someone like mr Robert L Cox.
Finding yourself a good broker is as same as finding a good wife, which you go less stress, you get just enough with so much little effort at things
Cox demonstrates an excellent understanding of market trends, making well informed decisions that leads to consistent profit
As a result of the interview I bought this book. Although I enjoyed reading it I feel that it didn’t go far enough. I grew up in Newcastle and my family were exploited for a number of generations through the Armstrong family’s grip on the area. I escaped all this and live a nice life in Austria. Now I find myself as a victim of brexit.
I feel sick after hearing this. We need proper reform immediately.
you have 15 mln people from africa, middle east, pakistan, india. they will find solution and will save English people.
Great seeing Mr Joe "Ollie" Dugmore back in the interview seat
Capitalism is, fundamentally, an economic system that promotes inequality.
Annalee Newitz
We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give. The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
Winston Churchill
@@NeedlessEscape That sums up what a useless bastard he was. It's very typical of his type to be good in the witty comment department, but when it comes to doing what has real economic benefit he was like all the others we have had since. WW2 was what broke our nation. We were taken over by the Americans post WW2 as we were their debtors. That cost us dearly.
@@NeedlessEscapeChurchill was a monster.
Rigid enforced equality is far more destructive than flexible inequality. Enforced equality anulls purpose and crushes aspiration.
Every 'ism promotes inequality. Point me to just ONE example of a non-capitalist state at any point in the last 500 years that didn't have entrenched and excessive inequality.
You have to change your name Joe officially now surely
I love it when they call you the wrong name 😂😂😂😂
My brother was born in 1955 in Glasgow and basically gave up, turned his face to the wall and died at 57, seeing no value in his life.
The issue of our rulers going straight from a privileged home to university usually studying a social science subject such as politics rather than a practical degree without any KNOWLEDGE OF THE REAL WORLD is a key factor in how badly we are governed.
The problem started when Reagan and Thatcher convinced the world that giving a nation's money and assets to a few Billionaires is a legitimate economic path to prosperity.
I laughed every time he Oli 'Joe' 😂
Re the velvet drainpipe I kept linking back to “Yes Minister and Yes prime minister. Sir Appleby “ shows it’s not a new pheromone! In one Episode they visited a Brand new hospital that was fully staffed and equipped and Appleby stated it was the most efficient in London but it had no patients! The head nurse said don’t send us any patient’s it will affect our efficiency!
I've thought of alot of the things this very clever person is saying about Britain being unequal over the years and thought to myself is it just me being paranoid and you convince yourself nah it can't be that bad can it?. Dam it i hate it when I'm right...I've also thought its allways the self appointed elites making the choices to benefit themselves at the cost of everyone, if only we could have a new social system where people don't get to be elite at others expense that would help society greatly. I applaud this man for telling it how it is and fighting to get to his position in life to shine a light on this subject and for him to want to make Britain a better fairer juster place for everyone.
1959er here. Glad to know I am in a gilded cage and can confirm that I enjoyed all of my 43 years of full employment around the world. Never went to uni, my O levels and always telling the truth did me proud.
Excellent video, balances out the podcasts....
It would be interesting to see some data on the relationship between the advancement in technology and the increase in wealth inequality.
It´s something that isn´t inherently connected, i.e wealth inequality decreased post-war when there was a lot of technological advancement. Indeed, I think in Denmark now it´s not much higher than it was in the 60s, it´s that Britain has had Thatcherite governments since 1979
@
Reading my comment back I realise I didn’t specify the type of technology I was referring to.
I was thinking more in terms the internet and social media. Phones, tablets etc
Is calling Oli "Joe" an intentional gag or just an honest mistake, the latter is way funnier
Excellent work, and wonderful interview!!!
Meritocracy tends to meretricious mendacity , the privileged classes that followed the WW 1 and 2 never had to rub along with common folk.
You can´t have meritocracy wthout social equality, that has been shown time and time again. The most meritocratic countries are Sweden, Norway, Finland and Denmark, where because people´s starting points are much more similar, it´s far more a question of talent.
@@Commonsense-u1hIt’s important that a significant , perhaps 25 to 30% ( perhaps more) of wealth is held as “ commons” these can be held in trust as National, municipal, or associative, ( these in the form of coop mutual or Union like organisations that belong and are under the governance of people at grass root) This gives an egalitarian base that acts equitably for all. The last 45 years has seen a vicious enclosure process, where common wealth , has been fire sold at a discount, this has benefitted those in proportion to ability to purchase, one of the causes of increasing iniquity.
This is a man who couldn’t be bought. Respect.
A lot of those East Asian countries adopted a more hands-on approach to economic development, particularly fostering of industry and managing their currencies to give themselves a competitive edge, the UK mandarins seem to be completely oblivious and unyielding in their ability to adopt such approaches.
Excellent discussion Joe, extremely knowledgeable guest, deserves all the credit he gets. Lets hope starmer and co pick up his book
Great job on the Interview Joe
This is a wonderfully accurate and refreshing perspective. Devolution is necessary, however we do need capable and competent people in the Devolved Government together with effective and powerful scrutiny to tackle poor management and instil a culture of continuous improvement. In parallel to ensure corruption and misfeasance is dealt with openly and proportionally.
With the above I belive you will attract good people to local Government and reinstall confidence and faith in the system.
Excellent interview and choice of guest. Will buy his book.
Am I missing something here, was Sir Paul Collier not deeply involved in public policy during this period of decline from which he has personally done so well- the delusion of the privileged who are not left behind 😢 I was born in Sheffield in 1951.
Amazing video, centralisation of power is not often talked about. I found it a very compelling idea that decentralisation might bring more economic prosperity. Also love it when people talk about organisational change to deliver economic change rather than this policy or that specific policy.
Not sure I would have made the top 40, I don't claim to be a genius in any sense. However, I love the opportunity to do that here in Northern Ireland for a five-year period, couldn't be less active or productive than the current 5 year cycles !!
Olly not correcting Guests on his name is always brilliant.
I really liked this interview. Very interesting guest
The story of HS2,to coin a phrase " we now backtrack," sums up this disastrous railway and past and present government very nicely, it seems.🤦♂️
Thanks. Points taken. IMHO it’s down to leadership. The better the leadership the narrower the divide between rich and poor. How so?
Poor leadership leads to corruption and every man for himself, with massive disparity the outcome. Great leadership unites all to a common cause and something approaching a meritocracy.
Thanks Joe and Prof Pual for such a valuable content. I will cut to the chase. Being an Oxonion and a CS myself, not born in the UK, I am a bit perplexed on why you didn't pick up on as basic as 'Behavriouul Economics' but rather kept attacking the Class. The Precipice we are facing lies in the actions of not only the government but the 'Thinking' of the people. We have ultimately become supremely lazy and just the talking heads on Macro stuff as any other genius economist. Amazon has wiped out our high streets. Politicians announce that Amazon is creating 20,000 jobs in the north, what jobs? 'Zero hour self-employed drivers' and the painful gig economy! The actual profits are made obviously by the Tech Platforms and the rest by the Producers. We unfortunately have become unconscious over-consumers and Butlers to the World. If it stays like this and when economic imperialism takes over of China + US PE, our children unfortunately will become their servants..
"it fills me with fury that the gulf between what is feasible and what is actually happening is so wide"
I feel this every single day and I've become weary because of it... it is exhausting to wake up to be repeatedly reminded day after day that we're all living a slow moving train wreck while helpless to do anything about it...
An excellent discussion. Thank you!
Watcha gonna do, Joe?
Excellent interview with one of my heroes Sir Paul Collier.
Absolute Legend
I think the Manchester based bus companies would be designing bus routes not some nob in Treasury 😮
The treasury isn't 'designing'. It's micro managing the decision making before releasing any money. Basically treasury thinks spending any money is bad. Doesn't understand the word investment. Certainly doesn't know anything about the north.
Great episode 👏
Magic scenario, a federal UK with the very top captains of industry at the helm of each, job done 🇬🇧
Forget the stupidity of "all electric cars" by 2030.
This is because it's the only section of the population it will affect, are the working class.
This is because given the UK's fragmented public transport system and ticket cost, it becomes cost prohibited when one has to travel to a building site in the middle of nowhere.
Or to put it another way, try getting home when one's shift ends at 00:00 and your train departs at 23:20; missing that connection means one's connection at the other end has gone and then there's a 3 hour walk.
Why not make it easier and cheaper to maintain the vehicles we have with parts and upgrades until something more than an expensive fad can be figured out.
Glesga boy here...totally correct that it was and is still being neglected. I had to move away...hopefully get back one day....Londongrad still rules completely
Fascinating- and instantly recognisable.
So interesting. I feel so sorry for my children. Eldest 36, 34, 25 and 22. They have degree ' and one has a top marks with a master's. My 22 year old has so much to give, could really help the country cannot get a job for which he has studied even did a City guilds. Now works in a bar.
My husband and I in our 60s still haven't paid the mortgage although we've paid the price twice over in interest. My husband has cancer stage 4.
Don't take the chemo
Great interview
Great interview Joe
Doe this podcast imply that PPE at Oxbridge is failing (as aWhitehall apprenticeship)?
I love how he calls him joe unironically.. perfect
55 minutes in and I realise this is the author of Future of Capitalism. Read it a few years ago and it really resonated with me - made so much sense. Be nice if guys like Paul and even Rory Sutherland could shake up the thinking in government a little bit
Brilliant discussion. Thanks for sharing, i hope in tome people like you both and the lokes of Gary Stevenson reach to further afield to wider audiences and a change comes in time....i hope so for the sake of our kids
Sadly, I would really strongly recommend not listening to English pundits talking about anything to do with Scotland, because they really never know what they're talking about. "Scottish Nationalist Party" is a red flag. Arguing that Prestwick Airport and not Glasgow Airport should have had more government support is just very difficult to understand. Prestwick was basically a military airfield and later a refuelling point for PanAm that has long struggled to justify its continued use in the modern age of long-range commercial aviation. Glasgow airport is much closer to the city and handles about 15 times more passengers per year. It's certainly true that Edinburgh Airport has done very well commercially in recent years, though. This is probably helped by its location to the west of the city, which makes it easily accessible from the whole of the central belt, whereas the same is not true of Glasgow Airport.
I smiled at the story of the treasury scrutinisers numbering 30, all scrutinising the plan/ results of on local authority treasurer presumably. Our whole economy apis beset by those who assess compliance to guideline. They by continually weighing a pig and ensuring the environment is conducive to growth of the pig, the pig will get fatter. It won’t, you need experienced farmers feeding the pig every day. This is a metaphor not a reflection on inheritance tax.
How joe can you go?
By joe i think hes got it!
I love the idea of getting the most capable amongst the population into regional positions of ultimate power per region (with the idea of if they are bad you chuck them). With them doing experiments to fix things and comparing them, fantastic idea if done right.
I have often wondered why we don't copy examples from other countries of things that work ..... now I know why.
What a disgrace our political system has been in my lifetime.
So enlightening!
In case you have not grasped it, he is Professor at Oxford. And he got an Adam Smith medal. And he. And.
I love that he thinks Oli is called Joe
Well, besides Oli not introducing himself, that was a pretty interesting podcast
Right, ex 'doer' civil servant (chewed up spat out middle class who's never heard "velvet pipeline") and I have some things to say.
1) Whitehall is not the Civil Service. It is a small part of it with possibly the biggest profile rivalled perhaps by HMRC or the DWP and using it as a catch all reference term is stupid, disingenuous and a little dangerous. Oli dropped a lovely little (/s) comment about post covid productivity and this might well be true however everywhere, and I mean *everywhere* in the operational side of the CS is drowning in backlogs from covid, and doing more new things and, most crucially chronically understaffed. The Public Sector needs reform, no one will like what that reform needs to be. Except perhaps anyone who is or has been a civil servant recently. It needs *expansion*. It is constantly asked to do more than it did yesterday with less staff than it had the day before while also catching up with everything it simply could not get to last week.
It needs more doers.
It needs more talent at the doing.
And it needs a government that is prepared to defend it, expand it and use it properly.
2) Tech Bro Mojo. You do not want the people administering welfare or taxation or customs or health to "move fast and break things". With start ups 100 appear 99 go bust and some hedgefund loses some money but its also bet on losing that money so its fine whatever. Welfare? Its bad enough as it is, it already kills people. Break it further and try to vibe out a solution and even more people will die. It doesn't matter if the next rent-a-app fails, it really does if child benefit isn't paid.
The public service can learn alot from the private sector, mostly on efficiencies and not having a swathe of out of date practices (and payscales) reinforced by political footballing. But trying to run the British Government like a start up isn't one of them.
3) Regional devolution is necessary, the CS already has large presences in the regions that can be built upon. We need more growth, more jobs, more shit needs doing by the public sector, whether its local government, ministries, arms length bodies or non ministerial dpts. If only there was a solution to this problem that wasn't geographically locked thanks to the wonders of modern technological working practices.
Lotta people are gonna read this as far as when I say "we need more" and come screaming to stick their oar in having never worked in it and in Prof Collier's words "know[ing] nothing".
We do. I'm sorry but we do. So many touchstones of the 'good old days' blithely ignore that there was less being done, less people to do it for and more funding to do it with.
Einstein's definition of insanity instantly springs to mind with regards to the increased policy role the UK Treasury seeks for itself as an over specialised 'expert', socially exclusive, monastic, hermetically sealed, over-centralized (quote) dysfunctional bureaucracy which is : to keep repeating the same actions while expecting a different result. The more I listened to Paul Collier's analysis of the rules for membership and prevailing culture (including the so called "velvet drain pipe" for promotion) within the UK Treasury the more insistently I could hear Oxford educated Sir Humphrey Appleby lecturing Jim Hacker just exactly why studying at the LSE effectively and on all counts disbarred & disqualified his presumption to run a Government Department. Likewise I would recommend that listeners should immediately turn to the Charles Dickens Little Dorrit CHAPTER 10 description of the fictional 'Circumlocution Office' and 'the whole Science Government' for further enlightenment.
We live in a plutocracy.
He is totally right. Down to earth but learned.
Fantastic interview which I enjoyed. Social class is a huge hindrance to Britain’s economic future . I admire Paul Collier coming from a humble background to such a position of intellectual preeminence. In a way he is a bit like Bill Slim , aka Viscount Slim of Burma. A man who also came from humble beginnings to become one of Britain’s finest commanders. Paul Collier speaks an awful lot of truth; I remember my father who was a middle management engineer at British Steel saying that when they received graduates for fast track training, they had to put them on the shopfloor for six months, so as to gain the necessary experience, otherwise they would wreak havoc!
I'm glad you made the distinction to specify Britain when talking about Catholicism vs other Christianities, and I'd love to hear thoughts on the relationship between imperialism and deprivation in NI
Labour already has diagnosed an over-centralsed and ineffective system of government and they need to work on delegating power and decision-making down to regional and place-based government.
Have they? If they did it sounds like lip service. Haven't seen a crumb of devolution. Lots of cuts and promises of hard times ahead though. That's always fun.
Believe it when you see it, not when they say it.
They won’t. House planning is already being centralised, with the threat of getting rid of local councils
A mere 100 miles from oxford situates the poorest city in England. Or maybe, a radius of a 100 miles situates some of the poorest cities in England because London with its priorities and its population towers over their local economies like the Mayan capital in Apocalypto .. or invades their local economy like a ravenous macrophage .. or both.
What city?
@munaali840 Sheffield, mate. Keep up, ffs. ( Well it's not a city by Asian standards but it was an important city and manufacturing centre in Britain once )
And then you look at China (which everyone incorrectly thinks is massive it centralized) which is MASSIVELY De-centralized is progressing massively in development and efficiency
around 33 minutes: one thing that keeps surprising me is the amount of people who are clearly intelligent and articulate seeming surprised/dissappointed/shocked that starmer's labour is giving us more of the same. I'm not very politically savvy, nor as smart but I could tell you that was the sales pitch. remove the radicals and make labour electable, pledges which didnt really say much concrete about changing the way the british government functioned. focus entirely on hammering home that the tories were bad and looking sensible but shying away from the challenge of defining what they were actually going to change. was anyone really looking at starmer and saying, yeah, that guy is going to shake up the system.
The problem is not just the treasury it’s the central bank system
This is not a new idea. Just watch yes minister. Sir Humphrey has been fighting devolution for decades
Exposure of Corruption in politics has also exploded in the UK.
Oil money on Scotland’s east coast.
From what I can see at the moment and I am looking more and more so may change.
Britain just exploits foreign working class.
In empire we kept them abroad and took the output.
Post empire we just take the workers directly.
Unfortunately in the UK we consume our workers. Essentially after a period of working they become broken and dependent on welfare.
So basically we are "poisoning" ourselves by consuming foreign workers to pay for welfare. But this fails as these same foreign workers will also become dependent on welfare.
I believe the decision makers very much understand this.
Great conversation. So essentially everything we learned from Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister with Sir Humphrey are still the same issues.
There is a blindness with the richest, possibly like so much that is only obvious once you've been told, that a well-to-do populace makes better customers. They buy more and pay a premium on what they buy. Extracting maximum profit, the result of which denudes your customer base of sufficient to improve their lot, is wholly short-termist. If those who're ignoring this blindingly obvious fact are not contained by competent government, then we get what we now have. Taxation can redistribute wealth, but is demonised by those whose income is derived from informing the general population, thus the only trickle-down is not money, but soft propaganda. People believe that taxation is wrong, that government is somehow not them, but 'them'.
I think we are looking at this all wrong. The rich can and will avoid any tax a country sets on them. You would think the EU would call out places like Luxembourg and others but don't. Even if we did manage it there is no guarantee our governments would make the most of the money. Plus I don't think just "redistribution" would change the fundamental issue as it will end up back in their pockets. I'd like to see laws that would force the rich/companies to spend X% per year on building homes for workers or infrastructure. At the moment the taxpayer funds this. (EG: Trains private but the state maintains the rails)
In the past, the mega rich built Libarys, museums, schools, and even whole cities. They need to go back to feeding their ego doing that than building rockets for space travel.
Two businessmen a smart accountant, 12 PA’s and a hand full secretaries could replace the whole Treasury and get rid of the lot of them
We know what the problems are. What are the solutions?