Shooting the Remington Rolling Block 7X57 - Is it Safe?
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Hello Friends. After our last video on the Remington Rolling Block I went into deep research mode after being prompted by a comment that opened up a past line of research into the safety of the smokeless powder chambered Rolling Blocks...specifically the 7X57 Mauser chambering.
Apparently, the 7X57 round went through some cartridge shortening changes in the 20’s that can produce excess head spacing in older rifles and the single shot Rolling Blocks were extra sensitive to this change and did not vent gasses well which lead to receiver failures if using “modern” ammo.
I also heavily researched exactly where my particular Rolling Block came from as it is a bit of an anomaly with no markings I can use to identify its history. This lack of markings seems to be a clue in itself and I surmise this rifle to be either.....
1) An El Salvadoran Modelo 1902 that was not crested as a “contract overrun” or from a lot of 700 or 800 that were held by Remington due to “financial difficulties” with their customer. Or......
2) A French purchase of less than 1000 rifles (different purchase than the 100,000 8mm Lebel chambered rifles) that were unmarked 7mm chambered M1902 version rifles made in 1910-1911 used in French Guiana as guards rifles at the Devils Island penal colony which operated from 1852 to 1939 and held about 70,000 French felons. Remember the movie Papillon with Steve McQueen?
My research went on and I concluded that my firing of well over 100 rounds of Chilean surplus ammo head stamped 1976 was uneventful and the brass was absolutely PERFECT looking because it was NOT modern ammo but the “old” 7mm that was made to shoot in the old 7mm chambered guns.....namely the 1985 Chilean Mauser.
I cautiously come to this conclusion because there was absolutely NO evidence of excessive headspace or high pressures. And that, as they say, is that.
Thanks for coming along for the ride!
I had one dated 1907.
Someone gave it to my dad in the '50's. Very Good++ condition. He gave it to me about 1990. I made a casting of the chamber using Dowman's Fix-all. Got some dies and components and loaded some rounds a grain or two LOWER than the BOTTOM load(s) in my Speer reloading book.
Got 1.5" 5 shot groups off the bench at 100 yards with 140 gr. Remington psp bullets.
No excess pressure sign on the brass, but what unnerved me a bit was that after only 4 or five rounds, the receiver and barrel got hot enough to light a cigarette with. I sold it to a pawn shop and sold the dies and brass to a guy with a more modern 7x57.
Love the old timer guns, but not enough to risk a injury!!
Thanks for relating your experiences. I’ve heard (and overheard) so many stories about reloading and how firearms react to different loads.....makes me respect the knowledge needed to remain alive when selecting your ammunition parameters. So much so that I for one don’t do it.
I can imagine one of these reloading experts of 50+ years reloading experience saying something like “the slow burning powder you used was creating a lot of heat... a faster burning powder would help with that but raise pressures”.
I’m not saying that is true, I’ve just been around those guys so much that I can just imagine them saying that....especially when reloading book guidelines were “adjusted” in one way or another.
The old timers playing poker at the gun shop round table aren’t quite ready to invite me in but I roam around and listen a lot.....every once in a while I’m asked an info question to settle one of their arguments. At 52 I’m still just a kid to them but they DO respect the collection.
The best safety for all old rifles of that age is to use mild ammo. I own a trapdoor that i load for. I stay around 1300 fps and under 18000 CUP. Reloading is a must when you own rifles of that age. The good thing about Rolling Block is that it is a strong action by design in contrast with Trapdoor which is weak by design. Rolling block is the king of single shots.
I use Chilean surplus 7mm from 1976 stamped F.M.E. on the headstamp.....I have an older video showing this ammo purchase from Samco Global Arms back in the day. I don't shoot the Rolling Block much but when I do I use this ammo......you think it's safe?
The Remington Lee was a straight pull action rifle, and had the problem of possible firing with bolt not completely in battery.
I have one that was sporterized..cut to 24 inch barrel and fitted with a receiver sight. I shoot it with cast bullets and it is VERY accurate.
Btw our range in the dry interior of CA restricts steel jacketed bullets in the summertime because they have caused fires.
Probably a good idea.....I HAVE seen sparks. Thanks for tuning in.
It can be quite dangerous to put less powder then the minimum recommended amount. Some powders will always explode dangerously due to inconsistent ignition from insufficient case pressure if loaded less than 85-90% of case capacity.
A man who researched the last hundred years of recommended practices in order to safely underload big game rifles found that Unique and Hercules 2400 powders have been safely used for "mouse fart" type loads for a very long time. I myself am so very grateful to have found his article before I experimented with removing powder from factory ammo to make it subsonic. I will definitely be using one of the safe powders in fired factory brass.
!REPEAT! Never load less than the recommended minimum amount of any powder without doing reseach on that powder!!!
I agree. There are so many aspects of reloading that are counterintuitive. Very interesting science. Thanks for the info.
I looked at a 7mm Rolling Block carbine at a shop yesterday. It has a good bore, otherwise good also. Very tempting. The Remington roller has a good reputation for strength but I'll be doing more research. I have several hundred rounds of PPU 7mm soft point, If I buy the Roller that is what I would use, unless the pressure would be too high, in which case I'd break the ammo down and reassemble with a lower charge.
What is the shop asking? My advice, buy it -- unless the price is completely outrageous.
@@browngreen933 The asking is $995 with a bayonet. I went there today and got my first choice, a Krag saddle ring carbine Model of 1898. I'll be looking at my collection for things to trade for the Roller. The shop is full of old firearms, there is a crate of Mosins with all the accessories including armorer's tools, another crate of Russian SKSs, all manner of things. There's a Norwegian 1911 I like...
@@3ducs
I suppose that's what they're going for nowadays. Shop sounds like a cool place. Good luck!
@@browngreen933 I'll make a counter offer, it's expected in shops. It's a VERY cool place! I only went there for the first time yesterday. RUclipsr GunBlue490 alerted me to the shop, he has a very good channel.
The lower powder charge will not help at all,the case shoulders have to be moved ahead longer so they headspace correctly.Read the fix I posted above and that is the best way to handle these old 7mm rollers with headspace problems and most all of them have headspace problems,I have only seen one 7mm roller in my life that didn't have excessive headspace,its an easy fix and sounds harder than it really is.I have a batch of these modified shoulder cases that have 12 loading's on them and they may still have 12 more left in them and they are loaded to factory specs.
That make a headspace checker called go or no-go I'll be the safest way to go about that get that Midway or for Brownell Tool Company.
Yeah I shoot 7mm Mauser all day and it has never had a problem
Google the Remington rolling block historical society. The rolling block was chambered in a 7mm. Before Mauser standardized the 7x57.
I’ll check that out....thanks.
I owned and shot, a original VG condition 7 mm RB. Even with light hand loads, I was getting stretch marks near the head of the case. Since I had previously had a case separation, when shooting another guys 8 mm Lebel RB. It about scared the poop out of me. Needless to say I got rid of it quick. IMHO RB's chambered for military smokeless powder cartridges. Leave a lot to be desired, safety wise.
I’ve heard everything from they are dangerous to bulletproof.....guess I’ll have to risk it to find out.
I'm going to guess that these cases are non-reloadable because they are Berdan primed. There is a method for de-priming that may work on them. Find a wooden dowel that fits your casemouth tightly and fill your case with water, place your case on a block with a hole large enough to allow the primer to drop through and then rap the end of the dowel with a mallet. Hydraulic pressure should pop out the primer on a Berdan primed case. Then clean and reload your cases with a safe load of modern powder.
I’ve seen that. I have enough of the surplus 7mm to last my lifetime....even IF half of them don’t fire.
I reload and I shoot my 7 mm rolling block all the time. I take new brass build a light load. That brass gets fireformed then I go to a medium load.
agreed, i have a ton of all types on milsurp ammo but since these ole girls have went up in price I hand load now even for Mauser's n Mosin's.....
What would be a Light load to medium load look like? What powder are you using?
Desand Bonville - In a reloading manual you will have five or six velocities and loading data.
The slow velocity are the low charges.
The medium velocities medium charges.
The higher velocity’s are hot charges.
The WRA - is Winchester and should be re loadable. The FNT I believe is Spanish
Stuff is scary.
To be clear- you found ammo that is not marked 7x57 to fit in a rifle that is not marked 7x57.
I guess......is the marking necessary?
I just ordered myself a FN 7mm mauser sporter. Figured I'd buy something other than a 22 for once and the price was right.
Sounds like it will definitely have a bit more kick to it!
So how do you sight in the iron sights on these rifles. Mine is shooting 4 inches high at 50yds. I'm guessing the battle zero is 100yds or 200?
Most of these old rifles are intended to be aimed with a 6 o'clock hold. And in my experiences, the range adjustment for the sights tend to start at 200 yards/meters at least. So you'd expect to shoot high at 50 meters/yards. Don't know if that's the case with your rifle.
Most battle rifles are setup to hold on the belt buckle of the enemy soldier for a chest shot
You dont, lol (unless you want to replace the front sight blade, but that destroys historical value). If it's shooting 4 inch, hight at 50. I'd say it's sighted for 200 or more likely 300 meters (most military rifles of this time period were sighted for 300 meters). What does the rear sight say? Set up 3 targets on top of one another at 100 meters/yeards. Shoot for the bullseye of the bottom target. See where the group lands and mesure from the center of the group to where you were aiming and bingo you learned your 6 o'clock hold. If you shoot alot of milsurps, you just get used to shooting this way
Fire forming cases could potentially be dangerous, even causing injury or death. There is a phenomenon which can cause a partially charged bottle neck cartridge to develop extreme pressures. It doesn't always occur, and it is not fully understood, but there are theories. One says that when powder does not occupy sufficient volume inside case, the primer charge drives the unburned powder forward into the case shoulder/neck region, where it then violently detonates. I have seen reports with photos where people have destroyed rifles with what they say are reduced charge loads. There are proven ways to safely fire form, but pulling a bullet and dumping an unknown weight of unknown powder from a factory case, reseating the bullet and firing the round might lead to serious problems and/or injuries. Look for professional help if you suspect your rifle has extreme head space or other chamber/barrel problems. An experienced and knowledgeable gunsmith should be able to get your rifle up and running. I hope everyone will stay safe!
I’ve been firing the 7 mm I have every once in a blue moon without having a problem. Hopefully it stays that way.
@@MilsurpGarage I hope so too. Best of luck to you...stay safe!
Chilean FAMAE 7mm tends to be on the lower power side for this ctg in my experience. I don’t have data, just shooting it through my Venezuelan FN 24/30 and FN49. So much so that I sold it all. I have FN 69 and FN 70 ammo for those rifles, and now my Cuban rolling block I just picked up. In terms of ctg changes in the 20’s I dunno. The internet is full of BS. Remember the story of the Romanian 8mm special round?? Pfffft...
So I have a remington 721 in 30-06 ackley improved, that one fireforms all the casings I shoot through it and I don’t reload or none of that, is the slightly shorter shoulder of modern 7mm mauser really a different case from that?
Sounds like a very interesting topic, but I honestly have no idea. If you find out an answer to that, please let us know or if anyone else knows? My reloaders?
I have a Remington rolling block in 7mm . I also have 3 mauser 7x57s . I did a chamber casting of the roller. Had a long chamber. The rifling was not that good. I was concerned about having a case separation. I replaced the barrel with a 40x65 black powder barrel.
Really wonder what mine looks like......
Have a 1902 commercial never had a problem
I reload to the rifles birthday.
Shooting a #5 RB in good repair with suitable ammo is not dangerous.
Shooting any center fire weapon with no idea if the ammo is suitable ("because the ammo sort'a fits") IS dangerous. The act of a lazy and impatient person.
It's 7mm Mauser ammo, it's safe in that gun.....I don't remember what I said in this video....did I really say "it sorta fits"?
Que esté traducido a español latino
Mauser actions are tanks
Most copied firearm design there is.......sure was a hit.
Rebarrel it modern steel competent gunsmith about 400 dollars
Robert or Anyone, I just picked up an Egyptian Rolling Block ( 43 Egyptian cal ) and I am wondering if this is a good candidate for re-barreling to 243 win, or 308 strictly for cast bullet shooting. I am also looking for recommendations for an experienced gunsmith, Thanks for your help! Richard K.
@@richardkennedy742 short answer no
Armor piercing? What a mental midget!, Not all of that guy's dogs are barking, I tell you. Armor Piercing is ALWAYS market with some kind of paint on the Tip, And since Nickle is attracted to magnets, it doesn't mean anything. Just for anyone wondering, FNT is a Chilean government owned and operated Ammunition manufacturer, so it isn't from anywhere else. I was thinking possibly Belgian Fabrique Nationale but it is Chilean. From what I can find Chilean Ammunition for this rifle, in AP was either a black tip or a red tip, I'm not sure which. What I could find was vague and not at all clear.
I can assure you, the dog IS barking. We certainly need more info on this ammo so thanks for the input.
ITS
IT IS THE TYPE OF ACTION, the bolt on Mauser does’nt flex like the rolling block may with higher pressure ammo.