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My local bike shop owner will survive but it's clearly hurting as the Boomer Generation roadies pedal into the sunset with their money, the younger generations need a 🚲 for commuting and grocery shopping. It's a difficult and different market of used single speed cruiser brake steel frame bikes for $100 than $20K road bikes.
Thanks for sharing, yes the bike shop niche will need to change in the coming years if they what customers. And those customers may come from D2C, RUclips, Social Media, etc. not where you would think. Half of my current service is being driven by my RUclips channel, crazy!
Our bike shop is doing well. Our profit is up even though our volume is not back to where we were. We have reduced payroll by not hiring mechanics that mostly do not cover their cost. We have reduced hours that allow us to do most repairs before opening. Our billing is carefully monitored and only big bike orders go on extended billing. The rest we pay at time of order. We are not trying to sell high-end with 2k being our top base bike price. E bikes being the exception Keeping our buying power fluid we can sell many 1,000 dollar bikes by not sitting on 5,000 dollar bikes. Our customer base is transportation oriented that ride year round. We convert bikes to electric that can in every case be serviced in house. This is very important for transportation use customers.
I have a small bike shop and did the same. Only bike orders on extended billing(but 50% less than last year and more commuter bikes). We also reduced open hours and fixing more bikes before opening. Reduced inventory in helmets, bike lock, saddles etc ( we had to many options). I think we have the same profit year to year. Sometimes small is better :)
I commute year round on ebikes, ebikes are the future for sure, at least you have high school and senior markets already if you focus what you do. In my city looking around ebikes are ubiquitous. Nobody cares for $5k trek, Specialized, etc. Great strategy. Wishing lot of success. fellow ebiker👍
Let’s be honest bike prices are ridiculous. Top end bikes are almost at the price of a car. Stop making the consumer fund pro teams. China is putting pressure on name brands too. Maybe it’s time brands reduce their margins.
This is a basic misunderstanding of capitalism. Also, the very expensive, high-end bikes are actually the ones that are selling. The lower end and mid-tier bikes are the ones not selling. The people with money to by $10k+ bikes are still buying those bikes because they have the disposable income to make these purchases. A lot of folks don’t ride motorcycles or care that you can buy a 400 pound motorcycle for the same price
It's true, people buying for practicality, aren't buying a new bike every few years; I would guess that for the market overall, most sales probably come from hobbyists looking for yet another upgrade, with first-time buyers as the next most common (with a _lot_ more fluctuation)... The market favors premium builds; which is great for funding innovation, but not great for basic transit ecreation affordability.
@@COMOMTBI care. I bought a new motorcycle. I’m looking at a mid tier ebike but just can’t get over the fact that it will be the same price as what I payed for a full blown motorcycle.
Yeah, I'm not wanting a professional tour capable 12/13/14/15 speed electronic geared bike. Hell, I don't even want internal cables. I'll stick with my several old school road bikes and bunch of 26 inch mountain bikes with phenomenally nimble handling. I hope the days of bike manufacturers devising ways designed obsolescence for profit are over.
My bike shop friend serviced 2000 bikes this year,,, his sales were threw the roof,,, he sold 800 e-bikes and 1800 analog units,,, they moved $3 million in inventory between bikes and all kinds of out-door sports... Largest growing sport 4 years in a row... they bought 2 bike shop bays so him and his family can double their inventory next year...
There’s too many brands out there offering “sales” that really aren’t sales. Lots of false advertising. People aren’t stupid. You can’t charge somebody 4k for SRAM Red previous gen on a build when you can easily Google and find it’s half that right now for a full group set…
Yes - I looked at the local Specialized Bike shop yesterday. The bike I was most impressed with was a customer's bike. It had a front derailleur and rim brakes. Why don't they sell "retro" versions of bikes that are less expensive and easier to repair? These bikes would use the older standardized parts. Aren't aluminum rim bikes good enough for most of us? Perhaps they wouldn't make as much on each bike, but volume may make it up.
@@daniellarson3068 I ended up having my old bike fixed for half the price of a new one, because all the new bikes were as you described. I absolutely refuse disk brakes, and do not like 1x drivetrains, large gravel tires, and internally routed cables.
@@fishcyclr Thanks - I didn't tell all. I spoke with a bicycle salesman about the repaired customer's bike. I said after the repairs it was likely to outlast many of the bikes on the show room floor. I was surprised that she agreed. The reason she gave was that many of the new bikes have proprietary parts. I guess it's not the bike shop folks causing their problem but the executives at the big bike companies.
@@daniellarson3068 very interesting about the sales person. My bike may be in the same boat as that specialized. I plan on keeping it for awhile after it gets fixed. Maybe with enough customer pushback, the corporations may yet change their course.
I agree the price of bikes is out of control. I was recently in the market and the only way I could make it work was to buy a frame on sale and slowly buy the parts to build it up which still took 3 months, and I financed quite a bit through Klarna and affirm. I don’t know how people can justify buying a bike at the same price of a used car. In the 90’s and early 2000’s you could get a decent bike around 900 dollars. The trails haven’t changed but now they try to tell you to get a 5,000 dollar bike to ride the same trails a 900 dollar bike did just fine on 15 years ago.smh. I don’t get it they are killing their own business.
I'll still buy lube, tubes, tires, and chains from my local mom and pop bike shop, just to help them keep their lights on. But everything else I can find at the swap meets. These manufacturers can eat a bag of cut cable ends.
Service is always going to be around in some capacity. Machines, even ones not designed to wear out, do. Every industry has a service sector that helps customers keep equipment going. stick with it! BTW, selling on the net helps; I appreciate the Campy wheelset! :)
I know it was something I could go back to if needed (service); boy, it was needed! Totally saved my butt. Plus, adding chain wax and frame detailing services did help me stand out from the local and corporate shops. Thanks for grabbing those wheels, I hope they treat you right. Thanks for watching!
The big bike brands haven't realized that bicycles aren't a throw away item, we don't all change our bikes because a new model has come out . A good bike will last a lifetime.
The biggest reason for chaos in the bicycle industry is because the rich man has taken the poor man's transportation and turned it into a hobby!!! TRUTH INFORMATION...😢
From a customer perspective: spending 5k on a bike is insane, let alone 7k or 15k. Market of enthusiasts willing to spend such amount of money is very limited. Market will put things in place. If not we can still move to another sport.
Doctors lawyers and tech newbies are the only ones paying these prices that are not worth the product. Those who know know know that used bikes from even 15 to 20 years ago are better. You can work on them and they're more reliable.
Also people trying to keep up with the jones. That’s when it’s bad that there is a brand gatekeep otherwise you will be judged. I think people will also buy out of their means. The long term implications is that you will have less and less newbies want to risk because the initial fee to a hobby they may or may not stay with. I remember a discussion between cyclists on a RUclips vid on how much you should speed. One Caucasian said, 2k, by a van rysel and if you like it then get that 8k bike. The Singaporean recommends 4k minimum which would be harder for a newb to swallow. I even remember watching a RUclipsr cyclist who mention that someone made fun of his Chinese bike on whether it will stay together to the top of the hill to which he dropped that guy in his pinarello. This kind of brand worship just makes it unattractive for someone to start. With that said I’m sure brands are still making money on Asians as cycling has become a golf alternative and where brands rather than the cyclist performance is what is idolized.
I feel bad for those who aren't mechanically inclined so much. Maintenance costs are huge, and that may not always be known before buying a bike with outrageously priced components, accessories, and other needed products like fluids and a brush even etc etc. After my first bill for maintenance, I decided to buy a few more tools etc to save some maintenance costs(brake bleeds, changing worn components etc). It'll take some time to get some $ back, but it's one of my goals so that I can continue to ride my overly expensive bike(that I love!) and feel even better about it.
I have been part of the cycling world for over 20years now. Things I am seeing: Major bike brands are not helping communities build MTB trails or even road bike parks. Every day I see less and less Mtb trails. Construction keeps conquering MTB parks nation wide and big cycling companies are not doing anything about it. Cycling stores are selling parts at MSRP while you can find them at a discount on the web. Cycling stores are becoming shoe stores, no care for the customer, straight to business dynamic. Bike shops need to be friendly, engaging, and community focused
I work in a giant retail store . I don’t understand why they never have inventory of any current model Revolt Advanced and Advanced pro model gravel bikes. I’ve lost many sales to Trek and other brands that are made at the Giant Factory. The same is true for their carbon road bikes . I would be interested in any explanation. Thank you.
Where I live, the cost of a house or renting an apartment has gone through the roof. Once, a person could pay their rent with one, average size paycheck, now it takes 2 and part of a third. People don't have the money to spend thousands on a bike or anything else. Plus, the younger generation has become really good a questioning why we do what we do, meaning why work our tails off to have things only to die shortly after retirement. Why not go without and find a less stressful job or work less. We are living in a transitional time, and I am not sure we all know it yet, bike companies don't.
Great takes. I think prices and the convenience of buying items online are playing a major role with people shopping less at their local bike shops. Plus RUclips videos showing how people can do their own maintenance has hurt the industry. I currently have a road, gravel, and a mountain bike. I also use my entry level road bike for my indoor trainer. For me, I don’t need a new bike, I just need to maintain my current fleet. Plus, bikes are too expensive for me to justify buying a new bike right now.
They have gone up , was looking at the new SLR Trek but they said trade in price for my bike was £1200 , I paid £12,500 for it in 2020 a Milani Icon converted into a road bike , so lose almost 10k in value in 4 years ????? i will keep my stunning Italian bike for years like most of us are doing now , nothing new in cycling is there ? Still Di2 ? Still disc and carbon ? Exactly ....not worth buying a new bike if you have Di2 & Carbon frame keep your cash in the bank .....
Service is always going to be important, especially with the growth of the E-bike segment that I have seen. I never thought I would see the day when I need to connect bikes to an OBD to diagnose faults……
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles Yep, make the internal cable routing so horrible it won’t shift the rear super tightly spaced 12 speed cassette and then solve that problem with an uber expensive electronic drivetrain. It’s got me ready to exit the industry
Well I been racing, and now riding more since i retired. but my passion is always in the now called "vintage" bikes,steel . Ive got 6 Italian bikes and never spent more than 500 for any of those. All I need for the industry is ,tires, tubes, lube .....
I bought a gravel bike on black friday 2023 , got a good discount on a salsa . Since then Ive been shopping for a higher end model and noticed the shops in the area have reduced their inventory by a lot. I may wait and just keep riding what I have and see if things improve.
I refuse to buy a new bike with hydraulic disc brakes and/or electronic shifting. Unfortunately, that now rules out 100% of bike shop inventory. I am restoring/upgrading my easy to maintain old rim brake bikes and have 6 bikes that now ride and fit fantastic. Maybe the bike industry will go retro again and bring back rim brakes.
I am staying at last years level. Already hit over 100k in service and sales are very good. Current years margin is around 35%. Most shops around me are doing pretty well also and we are not even in a huge city. (35k people) and we definitely have a short riding season. I have yet to see all this doom and gloom I keep seeing on the internet. Maybe companies and shops who did not adjust or refused to change are struggling. I know a lot of owners who were burnt out completely over the pandemic they sold their shops as they just did not want to do it anymore but their shops are still open.
I have 3 bicycles. One is a 350 dollar mongoose blackcomb for commuting. (I'd prefer to have that one left chained up outside over my more expensive bikes) One is a 700 dollar airborne Crohawk for rays indoor MTB park. One is a 2000 dollar Norco fluid FS A4 that I use on trails. My needs are currently met so I will not be in the market for a long time.
All the warranty issues on brand new bicycles are really eating into my shops profit margins. They are producing junk over charging for it and undercutting the IBD and the consumer is becoming aware. Personally I think it's going to get worse.
For myself, I want a good camping bike that I can also use around town and just for general use. But I want a quality Ebike. I've been enjoying my current bike for almost 20 years now. Looking at "good" ebikes, they are $6k to $10k. That is a hard pill to swallow. I know there are ones that are sub $2k, but they really seem to skimp on the quality components. I'm ok with the local bike company making margins so that they can live. What isn't great is the corporate margins that are in a greed cycle of "must grow!" Corporations making plenty of profit will lay off employees, cut back on quality, etc... just to report growth to shareholders as opposed to running a business that creates good products.
I'm 51. Been avid cyclist for 30+ years. Mostly MTB rider because I luckily live about 10 minutes from a massive trail system. Up until a few months ago this trail system was always busy. Very few parking spots available on busy days. For past few months there has been significantly less people using this trail. This aspect has very little to do with sales but I find it even more concerning. Seems all these people who bought bikes over past 4 years haven't stayed interested in the sport.
Ive got my eye on a 23' specialized Demo at my local mountain resort. They sell rentals at the end of the season for less than half price of new. Theyre well maintained, the techs know everything about the bike and its history. They really just need new brakes and most likely suspension rebuild. Id never buy new just as id never buy a new vehicle.
For one, companies need to massively reduce overhead and get employees that can wear more hats IMHO. I’ve seen so many companies with unnecessary employee bloat (or inefficient and unclear positions) which leads to the necessary higher margins (amongst other things). Obviously the inflation is gov caused universal problem which is forcing the inefficiencies within companies to the fore. I have personal experience with this from company I worked for and a few other friends… All in different industries with the same exact problems.
We are probally going to haver the best year ever (or 2nd best). Ebike sales have done quite well and still seems to be growing. They sell well with the older population in our area. Repairs are doing well too. I have been a little annoyed at the lack of 2025 models that Trek produced this year. Could have sold a few more Marlin+ if they were availible. I assume production was down because of the amount of 2022 and 2023 bikes still in stock.
I'm watching the BikeFarmer channel, and he claims to be doing well by focusing on average, cheap bikes. He doesn't just sell new bicycles but takes in used cycles to tune them up and resell, and keeps hearing from his customers they're not interested in any of the fancy stuff. So it seems bicycles still sell, people are just not so interested in proving they're "at the top of the world".
I'm in the same boat. I've been refurbishing road bikes for the last five years, and those do great. Adding service has helped a lot as well. I don't have brands or contracts with any companies, and I don't drink any Kool-Aid, so my opinion is very subjective. Thanks for sharing!
I think that they need to make more economical models. I don’t want to pay $700 more for an electric shift. Sorry, I’ll take least expensive options and operate that derrailuer myself.
August of 2023 I purchased a Trek Roscoe 8 which had been marked down from $2,400 to $2,000. A few months ago Trek reduced the Roscoe 8 another $400 down to $1,600, and reduced the price of their top of the line non carbon Hard tail, the Roscoe 9, from $2,800 to $2,000.
Thanks for sharing! The question is, will the new models start at that lower price point, or will they keep them at the same high price point? Or will they cut the line all together?
It will be interesting to see if the 9 doesn’t get discontinued altogether. They don’t seem to be restocking the sizes which have sold out and this has been the case for a few months now.
About 2 years ago my son bought a Trek Rail 7. With tax it was a little over $7000.00 out the door. He let me ride it couple of times and it was really an awesome experience, never having ridden an e-bike. But wow, that price. Fast forward to early August of this year. Exact same bike, same color, only one frame size larger, was able to get it for $3800.00. Boy, was he ever pissed that he paid so much for his.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles I'm a Trek dealer and it pisses me off. I have to sell it at full price to make any profit. Customer just don't understand. I was able to put a Trek store out of business.
Exactly... many bike shops here in New Zealand are under water on the stock they own on the floor. We saw ahead and didn't buy much for the floor, most our stock is consignment.. we sell off demo bike rides and consultation on big TV screens in the shop. So far so good, we go hunting for bargains with different brands. We're a trek dealer, but also have PON, Orbea, Haro, Orange, and bunch of other ebike brands. So haven't been pushed into a corner by a specific brand. Scary times... our sales are way down over winter.. terrible 3 months here. @randyrangel3214
Seems logical ... prices are way up for all goods, salaries have stagnated, and bikes (especially high end bikes) are a luxury for people who are hobbyists.
I been riding for decades, and what’s going on nowadays is the fault of the big boys and their marketing. Back in the day you could get a nice made in America bike for 1.5-2k within a year the same bike was being made over seas and selling for the same price. Flash forward to today and the bike industry is pushing house brand rims, hubs, cranks, bars and steams and selling them at a premium. The component companies are trying hard to push this 1x drive train that is ridiculous, all for two reasons newbs not knowing how to shift and damaging the carbon stays of their 5k bikes and selling less for more makes them more money. Now they are pushing internal cable routing another joke, zero maintenance and a frayed cable could ruin your bike. The bike industry is trying to bedazzle us and we are simply not buying it. I mean seriously how much of a problem was chain suck? Back in the day we never had to carry a spare master link because our chains didn’t break.
Ten grand for a trek madone. This is why gravel bikes sell . People are trying to get more for their money . Bike industry is dumb . They are scaring new customers away
How have cycling trends changed over the years? Do companies keep up with the driving forces that make people bicycle? Cycling as a sport may be diminished. However, bicycling to save transportation and parking costs seem to be trend. What is the age of cycling market? What are the activities younger "influencers" pushing?
Additionally, "MAMILs" are retiring. That's "Middle Aged Men In Lycra." Most are going from Lycra to eLectric. How is the bike industry responding to changing demographics? Likewise, what is the industry doing to encourage people to enter cycling? Who are the cycling heroes of today? Cycling started to die off after the Armstrong scandal. For me, I entered the recumbent rabbit hole. I don't know what's going on with road bikes or mountain bikes.
Talk about motorcycle companies making E-Bikes. The auto industry has jumped in with both feet. Mercedes made some E-Bikes that sold out as soon as they were available. Ford just recently announced they will start manufacturing E-Bikes. Who’s next Dewalt, Kellogg's or Charmin 🐻 ???
@hope2someday691 We are living some strange times. I would love to have me a Aunt jemima Bike, and I think it will be buttery smooth on the pancake flat Florida roads where i live. 😋
I still have the feeling that the brands need to double down on the high price consumers rather than the cheap bikes and basically milk these guys as much as possible. I would love to see what the limit is. I want to see 40k bikes and see if someone will buy it. I think people will and finance it 😅 For small shops. Think like a dealership and have rip off service and say things need to be replaced. I know local ones here have packages but usually they skip a lot of the flush which is like tighten bolts here and there. Mostly it’s washing the bike
I’m curious. How about all the financing that went on during the so-called pandemic. And folks not paying their loans. Do they repo those bikes? Do they resell them or do they even get them back? Is it a complete loss for the company if you haven’t addressed this part of the cycling industry, what do you think?
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles. We just bought a new specialized levo from bike source great price great customer service and we bought a Rocky Mountain that was on sale through Jensen USA. Customer service definitely lacked with them. Well it is what it is man. Happy trails and keep up the good work.
Many big brands are invested with angel's money that chasing huge profits in the shorter possible time. In the world wide economy down turn right down, it is difficult to entice people to spend more on non essential items. For the privately owned Manufacturers, they are nimble in cutting their overall costs to stay on business for a longer time because there are no investor to pressure them for profits.
MY BRO introduce SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE. It’s the biggest profit style. You offer an annual subscription in which you tune or wash bike or some fluff and junk. Not everyone will take advantage. It’s something similar to a gym membership.
These bike manufacturers have made their bed with consumers dollars, now they get to sleep in it. Hopefully the most egregious offenders will go out of business forever, never again to fleece the cycling community like they have for the past few years.
Canyon ain’t really discounting the bikes though. None of their advertised discounts are anywhere to be found. They’re trying to get you to think the deal is great. Lots of people keep calling them out on the misinformation or false advertising.
Idk who at trek came w the idea but going to a store and seeing only trek products is just boring and stupid. If i disliked Davids World business model in a Florida i now hate Trek Bikes Shops in Florida.
Yeah, thats what happens when you make plastic bikes. Can they even recycle them. ? Also whats this with taking over small bike shops. I walked into a Trek store , not one bike looked intersting , the shop just was sterile.. , uninviting.
To "I know a guy". If you have not already come to this conclusion, you probably will. With the huge trend in ebikes roaming around as you stated in your video, you will have to change, and start servicing the ebikes to make very nice profit margins. We are still near the begining of this trend, so well trained ebikes mechanics are still not plentiful, thus profit margins in this area should still be good. Ebikes are nearly similare to motorcycles, they are more complicated. Thus, they can command higher maintenance profits by the mechanic. We all have to change with the times and trends. When horses were the main vehicle of transportation, the horse carriage mechanics resisted the new trend of gas cars replacing the old horse carriages. Those horse carriage mechanics who did not change to the new trend of gas cars died an ugly death. Those horse carriage mechanics that embraced the idea they could pivot and then become gas car mechanics, thrived and realized nice profits from servicing the new complicated gas cars. The moral of the story is you need to forsee where the world is going and then change to take advantage of those trends to profit from those trends. A little background about me, I just bought a 2002 Lemond 'Buenos Aires in near new shape. Love it as much as my Specializes 2014 carbon Tarmac. I love the old classics as you do. If I needed to make money in the bike industry, I would have to think in terms of "where is the money to be made" as opposed to" what do I currently love". Love your videos and I look forward to all of your other videos.
Emtbs are stupidly priced. The amount of engineering and manufacturing compared to dirtbikes makes no freakin sense and Emtbs sometimes cost more than dirtbikes! What a joke!
Yeah, the prices are insance, motor+battery+remote costs around 1500, but they put 3-4k on top of the normal bikes, sometimes even with worse components on the e-bike. There is absolutely no reason, the effort to build an ebike is a bit higher, but not much and we're talking about the 4th or 5th generation already, they have plenty of experience and no one is starting from zero. Always check the previous year models, the discounts are extremly high, sometimes 40%, that makes them interesting again.. technic-wise nothing elemental has changed anyway, so no problem to go with this model
I’m curious. How about all the financing that went on during the so-called pandemic. And folks not paying their loans. Do they repo those bikes? Do they resell them or do they even get them back? Is it a complete loss for the company if you haven’t addressed this part of the cycling industry, what do you think?
@@GHinWI That's a new thing now. Greedy companies can't get over it that they have to lower prices so they do absolutely everything to keep the prices high. So what you get now is - EASY FINANCING.
Please "Like" and also " Share" to keep the conversation going. More insights from my perspective with 30 years of experience in the cycling Industry in the playlist: ruclips.net/p/PLdfUXv0-z1u42bZpCLWmT2VtNW-7AIf2A
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Liked! I would share it with my family but they aren't bike industry fans like me.
My local bike shop owner will survive but it's clearly hurting as the Boomer Generation roadies pedal into the sunset with their money, the younger generations need a 🚲 for commuting and grocery shopping. It's a difficult and different market of used single speed cruiser brake steel frame bikes for $100 than $20K road bikes.
How do we get a paper subscription to BRAIN? NEVERMIND, I called BRAIN 🧠, Pinky answered the phone and I have a paper subscription now. Good to go!
www.bicycleretailer.com/subscribe
Thanks for sharing, yes the bike shop niche will need to change in the coming years if they what customers. And those customers may come from D2C, RUclips, Social Media, etc. not where you would think. Half of my current service is being driven by my RUclips channel, crazy!
Our bike shop is doing well. Our profit is up even though our volume is not back to where we were. We have reduced payroll by not hiring mechanics that mostly do not cover their cost. We have reduced hours that allow us to do most repairs before opening. Our billing is carefully monitored and only big bike orders go on extended billing. The rest we pay at time of order. We are not trying to sell high-end with 2k being our top base bike price. E bikes being the exception Keeping our buying power fluid we can sell many 1,000 dollar bikes by not sitting on 5,000 dollar bikes. Our customer base is transportation oriented that ride year round. We convert bikes to electric that can in every case be serviced in house. This is very important for transportation use customers.
Awesome! Where is your shop located? Thanks for sharing!
I have a small bike shop and did the same. Only bike orders on extended billing(but 50% less than last year and more commuter bikes). We also reduced open hours and fixing more bikes before opening. Reduced inventory in helmets, bike lock, saddles etc ( we had to many options). I think we have the same profit year to year. Sometimes small is better :)
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles Seattle
Super job StuH ! Sounds like you have a great process in place. Wishing you more good luck and great ideas!
I commute year round on ebikes, ebikes are the future for sure, at least you have high school and senior markets already if you focus what you do. In my city looking around ebikes are ubiquitous. Nobody cares for $5k trek, Specialized, etc. Great strategy. Wishing lot of success. fellow ebiker👍
Let’s be honest bike prices are ridiculous. Top end bikes are almost at the price of a car. Stop making the consumer fund pro teams. China is putting pressure on name brands too. Maybe it’s time brands reduce their margins.
I have a tough time being able to get a new motorcycle for less than the price of a mid-tier high-end bike.
This is a basic misunderstanding of capitalism. Also, the very expensive, high-end bikes are actually the ones that are selling. The lower end and mid-tier bikes are the ones not selling. The people with money to by $10k+ bikes are still buying those bikes because they have the disposable income to make these purchases. A lot of folks don’t ride motorcycles or care that you can buy a 400 pound motorcycle for the same price
It's true, people buying for practicality, aren't buying a new bike every few years; I would guess that for the market overall, most sales probably come from hobbyists looking for yet another upgrade, with first-time buyers as the next most common (with a _lot_ more fluctuation)...
The market favors premium builds; which is great for funding innovation, but not great for basic transit
ecreation affordability.
@@COMOMTBI care. I bought a new motorcycle. I’m looking at a mid tier ebike but just can’t get over the fact that it will be the same price as what I payed for a full blown motorcycle.
Yeah, I'm not wanting a professional tour capable 12/13/14/15 speed electronic geared bike. Hell, I don't even want internal cables. I'll stick with my several old school road bikes and bunch of 26 inch mountain bikes with phenomenally nimble handling.
I hope the days of bike manufacturers devising ways designed obsolescence for profit are over.
My bike shop friend serviced 2000 bikes this year,,, his sales were threw the roof,,, he sold 800 e-bikes and 1800 analog units,,, they moved $3 million in inventory between bikes and all kinds of out-door sports...
Largest growing sport 4 years in a row... they bought 2 bike shop bays so him and his family can double their inventory next year...
I love to hear that. Thanks for sharing! I hope they see positive growth in the next few years.
My local Trek shop told me that they think Trek hasn’t done enough price/value wise yet to compete with other brands out there. That says alot
There’s too many brands out there offering “sales” that really aren’t sales. Lots of false advertising. People aren’t stupid. You can’t charge somebody 4k for SRAM Red previous gen on a build when you can easily Google and find it’s half that right now for a full group set…
My experience around me has been: Bikes that do not cater to the average customer at premium prices. I wish more bike shops were like yours.
Yes - I looked at the local Specialized Bike shop yesterday. The bike I was most impressed with was a customer's bike. It had a front derailleur and rim brakes. Why don't they sell "retro" versions of bikes that are less expensive and easier to repair? These bikes would use the older standardized parts. Aren't aluminum rim bikes good enough for most of us? Perhaps they wouldn't make as much on each bike, but volume may make it up.
@@daniellarson3068 I ended up having my old bike fixed for half the price of a new one, because all the new bikes were as you described. I absolutely refuse disk brakes, and do not like 1x drivetrains, large gravel tires, and internally routed cables.
@@fishcyclr Thanks - I didn't tell all. I spoke with a bicycle salesman about the repaired customer's bike. I said after the repairs it was likely to outlast many of the bikes on the show room floor. I was surprised that she agreed. The reason she gave was that many of the new bikes have proprietary parts. I guess it's not the bike shop folks causing their problem but the executives at the big bike companies.
@@daniellarson3068 very interesting about the sales person. My bike may be in the same boat as that specialized. I plan on keeping it for awhile after it gets fixed. Maybe with enough customer pushback, the corporations may yet change their course.
They have been missing the mark for a long time. Thanks for watching!
I agree the price of bikes is out of control. I was recently in the market and the only way I could make it work was to buy a frame on sale and slowly buy the parts to build it up which still took 3 months, and I financed quite a bit through Klarna and affirm. I don’t know how people can justify buying a bike at the same price of a used car. In the 90’s and early 2000’s you could get a decent bike around 900 dollars. The trails haven’t changed but now they try to tell you to get a 5,000 dollar bike to ride the same trails a 900 dollar bike did just fine on 15 years ago.smh. I don’t get it they are killing their own business.
I'll still buy lube, tubes, tires, and chains from my local mom and pop bike shop, just to help them keep their lights on. But everything else I can find at the swap meets. These manufacturers can eat a bag of cut cable ends.
Less brands lower prices. The industry is self destructing out of greed.
I can't see yeti lasting another 2 or 3 years.
Your GEN put this in motion. Marketplace will sort it out one way or another. Keep up the plugs . Always helpful.
Service is always going to be around in some capacity. Machines, even ones not designed to wear out, do. Every industry has a service sector that helps customers keep equipment going. stick with it! BTW, selling on the net helps; I appreciate the Campy wheelset! :)
I know it was something I could go back to if needed (service); boy, it was needed! Totally saved my butt. Plus, adding chain wax and frame detailing services did help me stand out from the local and corporate shops. Thanks for grabbing those wheels, I hope they treat you right. Thanks for watching!
The big bike brands haven't realized that bicycles aren't a throw away item, we don't all change our bikes because a new model has come out . A good bike will last a lifetime.
That's a great perspective. Thanks for sharing.
The karma bus has arrived
I've been in the industry for 18 years and honestly I think it's pretty hilarious.
That was funny......I'm going outside now to check that nobody stuck a Karma Bus Stop sign in front of my house.
The biggest reason for chaos in the bicycle industry is because the rich man has taken the poor man's transportation and turned it into a hobby!!! TRUTH INFORMATION...😢
*^* 💯 *_This._*
From a customer perspective: spending 5k on a bike is insane, let alone 7k or 15k. Market of enthusiasts willing to spend such amount of money is very limited. Market will put things in place. If not we can still move to another sport.
Doctors lawyers and tech newbies are the only ones paying these prices that are not worth the product. Those who know know know that used bikes from even 15 to 20 years ago are better. You can work on them and they're more reliable.
I totally agree!
Also people trying to keep up with the jones. That’s when it’s bad that there is a brand gatekeep otherwise you will be judged. I think people will also buy out of their means. The long term implications is that you will have less and less newbies want to risk because the initial fee to a hobby they may or may not stay with.
I remember a discussion between cyclists on a RUclips vid on how much you should speed. One Caucasian said, 2k, by a van rysel and if you like it then get that 8k bike. The Singaporean recommends 4k minimum which would be harder for a newb to swallow. I even remember watching a RUclipsr cyclist who mention that someone made fun of his Chinese bike on whether it will stay together to the top of the hill to which he dropped that guy in his pinarello. This kind of brand worship just makes it unattractive for someone to start.
With that said I’m sure brands are still making money on Asians as cycling has become a golf alternative and where brands rather than the cyclist performance is what is idolized.
I feel bad for those who aren't mechanically inclined so much. Maintenance costs are huge, and that may not always be known before buying a bike with outrageously priced components, accessories, and other needed products like fluids and a brush even etc etc. After my first bill for maintenance, I decided to buy a few more tools etc to save some maintenance costs(brake bleeds, changing worn components etc). It'll take some time to get some $ back, but it's one of my goals so that I can continue to ride my overly expensive bike(that I love!) and feel even better about it.
Thanks for sharing!
I have been part of the cycling world for over 20years now.
Things I am seeing:
Major bike brands are not helping communities build MTB trails or even road bike parks. Every day I see less and less Mtb trails. Construction keeps conquering MTB parks nation wide and big cycling companies are not doing anything about it.
Cycling stores are selling parts at MSRP while you can find them at a discount on the web.
Cycling stores are becoming shoe stores, no care for the customer, straight to business dynamic. Bike shops need to be friendly, engaging, and community focused
Absolutely! Thanks for sharing.
.
*Just hoping the parts industry doesn't tank.*
*Plentiful amounts of great used bikes out there that just need a couple of new components.*
P.S. I doubt many would miss Trek if they vanished from the market.
Selling hot garbage at premier prices hasn't gone well for them.
@@TenFalconsMusic Seems business has actually gone exceptionally well for them until the industry as a whole began having issues.
I'm buying no new bikes or parts for the next 10 years. I can find everything I need at swap meets.
Sure but it seems that people on MKTPLCE folks want nearly what they paid for a 4 year old bike. NO THANKS
Used Bikes is where it is at right now and has been. Thanks for sharing!
Super job sharing lots of details.
I believe the direct to consumer model has had a big impact.
I work in a giant retail store . I don’t understand why they never have inventory of any current model Revolt Advanced and Advanced pro model gravel bikes. I’ve lost many sales to Trek and other brands that are made at the Giant Factory. The same is true for their carbon road bikes . I would be interested in any explanation. Thank you.
Not sure why, but very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
"....those are big Titanics...." Hee hee.....Freighter, War Ship, even Tug Boat were available but you splashed Titanic on us! Great video
Where I live, the cost of a house or renting an apartment has gone through the roof. Once, a person could pay their rent with one, average size paycheck, now it takes 2 and part of a third. People don't have the money to spend thousands on a bike or anything else. Plus, the younger generation has become really good a questioning why we do what we do, meaning why work our tails off to have things only to die shortly after retirement. Why not go without and find a less stressful job or work less. We are living in a transitional time, and I am not sure we all know it yet, bike companies don't.
Great takes. I think prices and the convenience of buying items online are playing a major role with people shopping less at their local bike shops. Plus RUclips videos showing how people can do their own maintenance has hurt the industry. I currently have a road, gravel, and a mountain bike. I also use my entry level road bike for my indoor trainer. For me, I don’t need a new bike, I just need to maintain my current fleet. Plus, bikes are too expensive for me to justify buying a new bike right now.
The used market is the way! Thanks for sharing.
So why are bikes still so expensive?
They have gone up , was looking at the new SLR Trek but they said trade in price for my bike was £1200 , I paid £12,500 for it in 2020 a Milani Icon converted into a road bike , so lose almost 10k in value in 4 years ????? i will keep my stunning Italian bike for years like most of us are doing now , nothing new in cycling is there ? Still Di2 ? Still disc and carbon ? Exactly ....not worth buying a new bike if you have Di2 & Carbon frame keep your cash in the bank .....
Service is always going to be important, especially with the growth of the E-bike segment that I have seen. I never thought I would see the day when I need to connect bikes to an OBD to diagnose faults……
I wanna know how many decent mechanics are leaving due to e-bikes. Same pay way more BS.
For the last ten years, they have been making bikes more complicated, so you need to take it to a certified tech.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles Yep, make the internal cable routing so horrible it won’t shift the rear super tightly spaced 12 speed cassette and then solve that problem with an uber expensive electronic drivetrain. It’s got me ready to exit the industry
Well I been racing, and now riding more since i retired. but my passion is always in the now called "vintage" bikes,steel . Ive got 6 Italian bikes and never spent more than 500 for any of those. All I need for the industry is ,tires, tubes, lube .....
I bought a gravel bike on black friday 2023 , got a good discount on a salsa . Since then Ive been shopping for a higher end model and noticed the shops in the area have reduced their inventory by a lot. I may wait and just keep riding what I have and see if things improve.
We will see. Thanks for sharing!
I refuse to buy a new bike with hydraulic disc brakes and/or electronic shifting. Unfortunately, that now rules out 100% of bike shop inventory. I am restoring/upgrading my easy to maintain old rim brake bikes and have 6 bikes that now ride and fit fantastic. Maybe the bike industry will go retro again and bring back rim brakes.
I hope so, but there are many gold nuggets in the used market. Thank you for watching!
I am staying at last years level. Already hit over 100k in service and sales are very good. Current years margin is around 35%. Most shops around me are doing pretty well also and we are not even in a huge city. (35k people) and we definitely have a short riding season. I have yet to see all this doom and gloom I keep seeing on the internet. Maybe companies and shops who did not adjust or refused to change are struggling. I know a lot of owners who were burnt out completely over the pandemic they sold their shops as they just did not want to do it anymore but their shops are still open.
That is amazing! Thanks for sharing.
I have 3 bicycles. One is a 350 dollar mongoose blackcomb for commuting. (I'd prefer to have that one left chained up outside over my more expensive bikes) One is a 700 dollar airborne Crohawk for rays indoor MTB park. One is a 2000 dollar Norco fluid FS A4 that I use on trails. My needs are currently met so I will not be in the market for a long time.
Thanks for sharing.
You've overpriced for the market and relied on consumer's credit. Start pricing correctly.
but...but...but...Didn't the " Boutique Shoppe " title explain how it is worth it?
Got a smoking deal on a brand new Crux. Happy to see prices dropping a bit and stabilizing.
All the warranty issues on brand new bicycles are really eating into my shops profit margins. They are producing junk over charging for it and undercutting the IBD and the consumer is becoming aware. Personally I think it's going to get worse.
I have seen warranties increase, and total part replacement, not fixed kits, is problematic and a waste.
Well, I am thankful the E bike part of the cycling industry is still growing. Lot's of service too.
For myself, I want a good camping bike that I can also use around town and just for general use. But I want a quality Ebike. I've been enjoying my current bike for almost 20 years now.
Looking at "good" ebikes, they are $6k to $10k. That is a hard pill to swallow. I know there are ones that are sub $2k, but they really seem to skimp on the quality components.
I'm ok with the local bike company making margins so that they can live.
What isn't great is the corporate margins that are in a greed cycle of "must grow!" Corporations making plenty of profit will lay off employees, cut back on quality, etc... just to report growth to shareholders as opposed to running a business that creates good products.
Great insights, thanks for sharing.
I'm 51. Been avid cyclist for 30+ years. Mostly MTB rider because I luckily live about 10 minutes from a massive trail system. Up until a few months ago this trail system was always busy. Very few parking spots available on busy days. For past few months there has been significantly less people using this trail. This aspect has very little to do with sales but I find it even more concerning. Seems all these people who bought bikes over past 4 years haven't stayed interested in the sport.
That’s fantastic news, not concerning.
Thanks for sharing!
Ive got my eye on a 23' specialized Demo at my local mountain resort. They sell rentals at the end of the season for less than half price of new. Theyre well maintained, the techs know everything about the bike and its history. They really just need new brakes and most likely suspension rebuild. Id never buy new just as id never buy a new vehicle.
For one, companies need to massively reduce overhead and get employees that can wear more hats IMHO. I’ve seen so many companies with unnecessary employee bloat (or inefficient and unclear positions) which leads to the necessary higher margins (amongst other things). Obviously the inflation is gov caused universal problem which is forcing the inefficiencies within companies to the fore. I have personal experience with this from company I worked for and a few other friends… All in different industries with the same exact problems.
Going back to the business model of the 90's.
We are probally going to haver the best year ever (or 2nd best). Ebike sales have done quite well and still seems to be growing. They sell well with the older population in our area. Repairs are doing well too. I have been a little annoyed at the lack of 2025 models that Trek produced this year. Could have sold a few more Marlin+ if they were availible. I assume production was down because of the amount of 2022 and 2023 bikes still in stock.
That's awesome! Thanks for sharing!
I'm watching the BikeFarmer channel, and he claims to be doing well by focusing on average, cheap bikes. He doesn't just sell new bicycles but takes in used cycles to tune them up and resell, and keeps hearing from his customers they're not interested in any of the fancy stuff. So it seems bicycles still sell, people are just not so interested in proving they're "at the top of the world".
I'm in the same boat. I've been refurbishing road bikes for the last five years, and those do great. Adding service has helped a lot as well. I don't have brands or contracts with any companies, and I don't drink any Kool-Aid, so my opinion is very subjective. Thanks for sharing!
Our Trek store didn't even make it a year. Glad we have a locally owned bike shop to count on.
There is going to be some reduction of locations for sure in the next year or so when building leases come up.
I think that they need to make more economical models. I don’t want to pay $700 more for an electric shift. Sorry, I’ll take least expensive options and operate that derrailuer myself.
August of 2023 I purchased a Trek Roscoe 8 which had been marked down from $2,400 to $2,000. A few months ago Trek reduced the Roscoe 8 another $400 down to $1,600, and reduced the price of their top of the line non carbon Hard tail, the Roscoe 9, from $2,800 to $2,000.
Thanks for sharing! The question is, will the new models start at that lower price point, or will they keep them at the same high price point? Or will they cut the line all together?
It will be interesting to see if the 9 doesn’t get discontinued altogether. They don’t seem to be restocking the sizes which have sold out and this has been the case for a few months now.
About 2 years ago my son bought a Trek Rail 7. With tax it was a little over $7000.00 out the door. He let me ride it couple of times and it was really an awesome experience, never having ridden an e-bike. But wow, that price.
Fast forward to early August of this year. Exact same bike, same color, only one frame size larger, was able to get it for $3800.00.
Boy, was he ever pissed that he paid so much for his.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles I'm a Trek dealer and it pisses me off. I have to sell it at full price to make any profit. Customer just don't understand. I was able to put a Trek store out of business.
Exactly... many bike shops here in New Zealand are under water on the stock they own on the floor. We saw ahead and didn't buy much for the floor, most our stock is consignment.. we sell off demo bike rides and consultation on big TV screens in the shop. So far so good, we go hunting for bargains with different brands. We're a trek dealer, but also have PON, Orbea, Haro, Orange, and bunch of other ebike brands. So haven't been pushed into a corner by a specific brand. Scary times... our sales are way down over winter.. terrible 3 months here. @randyrangel3214
Seems logical ... prices are way up for all goods, salaries have stagnated, and bikes (especially high end bikes) are a luxury for people who are hobbyists.
They are driving the market to used bikes for sure.
I been riding for decades, and what’s going on nowadays is the fault of the big boys and their marketing. Back in the day you could get a nice made in America bike for 1.5-2k within a year the same bike was being made over seas and selling for the same price. Flash forward to today and the bike industry is pushing house brand rims, hubs, cranks, bars and steams and selling them at a premium. The component companies are trying hard to push this 1x drive train that is ridiculous, all for two reasons newbs not knowing how to shift and damaging the carbon stays of their 5k bikes and selling less for more makes them more money. Now they are pushing internal cable routing another joke, zero maintenance and a frayed cable could ruin your bike. The bike industry is trying to bedazzle us and we are simply not buying it. I mean seriously how much of a problem was chain suck? Back in the day we never had to carry a spare master link because our chains didn’t break.
I'm will ya! I just worked on a few newer bikes, and it took twice as long to do the simplest job.
I don't get those 1x's. I'm a long distance tourer & I'll stick with my 3x drivetrain. 141"
@@josephhaddakin7095 yeah on my tandem i use a 3x and on my gravel a 2x what levels me wanting a little more on the downhill
Ten grand for a trek madone. This is why gravel bikes sell . People are trying to get more for their money . Bike industry is dumb . They are scaring new customers away
Absolutely!
How have cycling trends changed over the years? Do companies keep up with the driving forces that make people bicycle? Cycling as a sport may be diminished. However, bicycling to save transportation and parking costs seem to be trend. What is the age of cycling market? What are the activities younger "influencers" pushing?
Additionally, "MAMILs" are retiring. That's "Middle Aged Men In Lycra." Most are going from Lycra to eLectric. How is the bike industry responding to changing demographics? Likewise, what is the industry doing to encourage people to enter cycling? Who are the cycling heroes of today? Cycling started to die off after the Armstrong scandal. For me, I entered the recumbent rabbit hole. I don't know what's going on with road bikes or mountain bikes.
Those are some good questions.
Talk about motorcycle companies making E-Bikes. The auto industry has jumped in with both feet. Mercedes made some E-Bikes that sold out as soon as they were available. Ford just recently announced they will start manufacturing E-Bikes. Who’s next Dewalt, Kellogg's or Charmin 🐻 ???
@hope2someday691 We are living some strange times. I would love to have me a Aunt jemima Bike, and I think it will be buttery smooth on the pancake flat Florida roads where i live. 😋
I still have the feeling that the brands need to double down on the high price consumers rather than the cheap bikes and basically milk these guys as much as possible. I would love to see what the limit is. I want to see 40k bikes and see if someone will buy it. I think people will and finance it 😅
For small shops. Think like a dealership and have rip off service and say things need to be replaced. I know local ones here have packages but usually they skip a lot of the flush which is like tighten bolts here and there. Mostly it’s washing the bike
Some shops, yes; I believe there needs to be more transparency on what shops do for service.
I’m curious. How about all the financing that went on during the so-called pandemic. And folks not paying their loans. Do they repo those bikes? Do they resell them or do they even get them back? Is it a complete loss for the company if you haven’t addressed this part of the cycling industry, what do you think?
Those loans from the consumer are credit card companies. It is just credit debt, and the bike shops don't see that part.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles. We just bought a new specialized levo from bike source great price great customer service and we bought a Rocky Mountain that was on sale through Jensen USA. Customer service definitely lacked with them. Well it is what it is man. Happy trails and keep up the good work.
Well I just pick up brand new 2023 Norco sight 48%off the original price.2015.00
Many big brands are invested with angel's money that chasing huge profits in the shorter possible time. In the world wide economy down turn right down, it is difficult to entice people to spend more on non essential items.
For the privately owned Manufacturers, they are nimble in cutting their overall costs to stay on business for a longer time because there are no investor to pressure them for profits.
MY BRO introduce SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE. It’s the biggest profit style. You offer an annual subscription in which you tune or wash bike or some fluff and junk.
Not everyone will take advantage. It’s something similar to a gym membership.
Here's a thought stopped charging the same price for a high-end mountain bike as a motorcycle
What is the margin with electric bikes? Their sales seem to be ok.
I think they are less, but at the end of the day, it is a larger number. 20%- 25%, maybe?
These bike manufacturers have made their bed with consumers dollars, now they get to sleep in it. Hopefully the most egregious offenders will go out of business forever, never again to fleece the cycling community like they have for the past few years.
I have been watching and waiting for a Canyon and the sale has been ongoing for a month already. I think there is trouble.
Canyon ain’t really discounting the bikes though. None of their advertised discounts are anywhere to be found. They’re trying to get you to think the deal is great. Lots of people keep calling them out on the misinformation or false advertising.
They are one of the companies that has reported positive numbers in the last year, so... I think they are fine.
Trek just released some new bikes. Good chaos.
Trek is in deep trouble in some markets
Idk who at trek came w the idea but going to a store and seeing only trek products is just boring and stupid. If i disliked Davids World business model in a Florida i now hate Trek Bikes Shops in Florida.
My Trek store just closed
It's still sad to see, even if it's a corporate-owned store.
Yeah, thats what happens when you make plastic bikes. Can they even recycle them. ? Also whats this with taking over small bike shops. I walked into a Trek store , not one bike looked intersting , the shop just was sterile.. , uninviting.
Some of the shops are like that. Thanks for sharing.
My truck cost less than my bike
You can buy an excellent road or gravel bike for $2300 that will satisfy 99% of bike enthousiasts.
That's around $1300 too much
To "I know a guy". If you have not already come to this conclusion, you probably will. With the huge trend in ebikes roaming around as you stated in your video, you will have to change, and start servicing the ebikes to make very nice profit margins. We are still near the begining of this trend, so well trained ebikes mechanics are still not plentiful, thus profit margins in this area should still be good. Ebikes are nearly similare to motorcycles, they are more complicated. Thus, they can command higher maintenance profits by the mechanic. We all have to change with the times and trends. When horses were the main vehicle of transportation, the horse carriage mechanics resisted the new trend of gas cars replacing the old horse carriages. Those horse carriage mechanics who did not change to the new trend of gas cars died an ugly death. Those horse carriage mechanics that embraced the idea they could pivot and then become gas car mechanics, thrived and realized nice profits from servicing the new complicated gas cars. The moral of the story is you need to forsee where the world is going and then change to take advantage of those trends to profit from those trends. A little background about me, I just bought a 2002 Lemond 'Buenos Aires in near new shape. Love it as much as my Specializes 2014 carbon Tarmac. I love the old classics as you do. If I needed to make money in the bike industry, I would have to think in terms of "where is the money to be made" as opposed to" what do I currently love". Love your videos and I look forward to all of your other videos.
Shops, including myself, will have to get trained for the new norm, whatever that direction will look like.
Don’t forget most really nice good bikes are over 4K. Most people want e-bikes which are over 6k
Quit blaming inflation, lower your prices ffs
KTM
GASGAS as well. They have over 23 Mountain ebikes. Crazy!
Emtbs are stupidly priced. The amount of engineering and manufacturing compared to dirtbikes makes no freakin sense and Emtbs sometimes cost more than dirtbikes! What a joke!
Yeah, the prices are insance, motor+battery+remote costs around 1500, but they put 3-4k on top of the normal bikes, sometimes even with worse components on the e-bike. There is absolutely no reason, the effort to build an ebike is a bit higher, but not much and we're talking about the 4th or 5th generation already, they have plenty of experience and no one is starting from zero. Always check the previous year models, the discounts are extremly high, sometimes 40%, that makes them interesting again.. technic-wise nothing elemental has changed anyway, so no problem to go with this model
I’m curious. How about all the financing that went on during the so-called pandemic. And folks not paying their loans. Do they repo those bikes? Do they resell them or do they even get them back? Is it a complete loss for the company if you haven’t addressed this part of the cycling industry, what do you think?
There are people who financed a bicycle?
CC
@@GHinWI That's a new thing now. Greedy companies can't get over it that they have to lower prices so they do absolutely everything to keep the prices high. So what you get now is - EASY FINANCING.