the idea of “cancel culture” is one of the most interesting things i’ve seen come out of internet discourse in recent years. it’s a phrase that’s basically meaningless but just by using it, it can completely change how a situation is seen. regardless of how shitty a influencers apology is, as long as they say they were cancelled or mention something abt a “twitter hivemind” ppl automatically get on their side without even fully knowing the context lol. it’s a lot harder for people to actually admit to their mistakes than for them to paint to the people criticizing them as irrational or a hivemind.
The worst part of "cancel culture" is that its not some new phenomenon like its very often framed to be. "Cancelling" is a naturally occuring consequence of human social dynamics, that's basically been around as long as human beings. The cancel culture label is really just thrown around as a smear tactic
There's value in apologizing, too. Statements like this are good, effectively saying "hold me accountable," but there's also the step of self-reflection. If you mess up, fess up, and try to be better. Everyone screws up sometimes. It's normal.
I go back and forth on the canceling thing. There is a definite difference between just not watching/interacting with something and criticizing it, and the sorta revelry ppl get with joining an online mob. Like the doxing, and the livestreams of ppl losing subscribers, and flat out harassment. I've gotten into that mindset (I was on tumblr) and personally thats bad for my psyche. And I mostly see that cancelling only really works on ppl who didn't have a lot of power to begin with, like literally just regular working class ppl offline. Any corporation or billionaire isn't gonna be "canceled". Otherwise, I agree with the sentiment of this video. Don't compromise your expression or your personal growth for strangers on the internet, but be open to the input of other perspectives.
Okay I originally just posted a joke but honestly this is a really good video. A lot of what you said has been on my mind for a while now, how much "influencers" are really built up by their audiences. Really we're all just "influencers" because we all have a responsibility to understand the effects of our words or actions, how they effect the people around us. Idk this just gave me a lot more to think about
I think this the most transparent, self-aware thing I've ever heard a RUclips Content Creator say. I don't believe in cancel culture either, it's just a buzz term used to deflect what's being discussed in the first place. People have always had the power to build and tear down others THEY themselves help built up. The term cancel culture being used is the equivalent of calling someone a tattletale in grade school, because they genuinely believe that witnessed someone doing wrong. Great video, bro, thank you for being you.
Better than this, i think we can all see this as what it kinda is: a conglomerate of people. We don't actually have all the same ideas here, but we share the values necessary to engage and participate on the creation of the content you made. Para social, yeah, but if we analise and try to change the ways we interact with the creators and with ourselves, maybe we can do something new of this. Or not, at this point i might be tripping
First take on cancelling I agree with. Even for those who may have apologised and as much as I love some ppl who have been cancelled I.e. Lindsay Ellis (Raya), Contrapoints(B.Angel, nonbinary) or even BTS(antisemitism/colourism), I can’t help but think they tend focus on the abuse they got (which, don’t get me wrong, they absolutely should and nothing warrants the way they were treated), but don’t actually spend enough time imo to listen to the genuine and constructive criticism. I get emotionally that’s incredibly difficult to do when you’re being dogpiled, but I also think it’s disingenuous to think the outrage is just based on crazy and cruel people and at best gloss over some fair and constructive criticism. I really appreciate when content creators use their platform ppl from the community they hurt to help educate others for example, and wish they didn’t wait to get cancelled before addressing things they may have done or said.
My only issue is everyone is always quick to tear someone down for hearing someone did something bad, but when ever this thing turns out to be false or overblown and spun to make them sound worse than they actually are no one seems to be there to build them back up. This abuse of that power will only lead to that power being snuffed out.
Saying i dont feel comfortable supporting someone & actively attacking someone are two different things. And ive seen ppl agree with such narratives of canceling someone just cuz its the popular thing to do and others are doing it. Sometimes its really not about whether some ppl actually feel offended, sometimes its about following a crowd to seem accepted. Not saying i disagree with what you said, but its not all one dimensional
This is really good. I haven’t seen a video that talks about cancelling this way. I also hadn’t seen a video where someone says, “you do not build an audience, your audience builds you,” a statement I find very powerful. I agree that people should be allowed to stop engaging with a content creator if at any point they feel uncomfortable. And I also agree that the term “cancel culture” has mostly been used to dismiss or distract from the reasons people are actually upset. Still, I’ve seen a lot of real bullying and harassment on the internet, and I don’t want to see that continue. So like… there’s nuance. It’s okay to stop supporting an influencer or to deplatform them, but it is never okay to harm them.
I always think of the recent shit with Lindsay Ellis. There's a lot of times where when things are offensive because, even if you were careful and meant well, your words could be read negatively. There comes a point where your size grows so large that its impossible to hear the valid criticisms, and even the softest tones x100000 becomes mentally deteriorating to wade through. Does this mean that the discomfort of those people on Twitter were invalid about the avatar comment? Hell no. We've been broken by a society that primes us to see how easy it is to other and diminish people, because it does nothing but encourage it. I still agree with storytellers sentiment though. If i make a mistake, or even if my actions can be read maliciously, you deserve to have that discomfort expressed. But we should also realize that unless the wrongs were so intensely bad that a group of people can all coherently point it out to you in unison, that discomfort and easily become a torrent of insults and malice, contorted beyond recognition Like, seriously, we see this shit happen with academic sociology. Hell, it happens with anything. A group of people can easily dilute the core of a message unless that core strong enough to withstand it all
I don't think Lindsay Ellis is a good example of a content creator "fessing up" to something they did wrong or inadvertently upset/offended people, because she made an hour or so long video where she handwaves away *her* part in the backlash, and gaslights the community hurt by her comments by bringing up being doxxed and harassed during the height of GamerGate, and a sexual assault she experienced in her personal life, and basically went "You triggered me by bringing up these painful memories by calling me out and attempting to hold me accountable for my behaviour!" and essentially used her own pain and trauma to speak over the voices of those in the Asian community she upset, even if it was unintentionally. Let's also not forget she has a history of going on Twitter meltdowns about "Cancel Culture going too far" every time people call out her shitty friend Natalie Wynn (ContraPoints) when she does stupid shit like sympathize with alt-right incels, insist that we try to make friends with our oppressors, or goes on one of her truscum tirades about nonbinary people/"Transtrenders" not being "real trans" because they don't suffer from Gender Dysphoria or they don't experience it the way *she* did, and how she wants to understand nonbinary people and their experience with transness "as long as it's within reason" or how she "doesn't want to blindly do as she's told and use enbies pronouns, she wants to know WHY she should do it" as in we need to convince her that she should use the pronouns and names we prefer, when that's something that is unquestioningly done for her as a binary trans woman. Honestly fuck Lindsay Ellis. Fuck Natalie Wynn. Fuck Sarah Z. Fuck Jenny Nicholson. Fuck Abby Thorne. They're all shining examples of Moderates masquerading as Leftists. (aka The Dirtbag Left)
I think there needs to be a code of conduct and levels to how to deal to with any given person/situation since life is a spectrum so naturally theres a spectrum to offense
Watching this 3 days after I watched Chappelle's new special The Closer. The fallout has already started. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out.
I disagree with cancel culture not being a thing. When I see people going "this person did something that got them canceled, let's make sure their friends are next" or some stuff like that I think that's cancel culture. It's people getting enjoyment out of taking big creators down and specifically trying to find reasons to cancel them. And it's probably not a very large group of people, but if they do find stuff which they are likely to if they dig far enough they will start trying to convince everyone to stop consuming this person's content and calling them a bad person if they don't. And once you got a decent group of people claiming you are a horrible person for something that you said 5 years ago that was taken out of context that's gonna be pretty bad for the creator's mental health. I think it's good content creators get called out for their shit and that people are willing to stop supporting people they don't feel comfortable with anymore, but there are so many cases of people doing something minor wrong and getting aggressively harassed by a segment of their audience and people outside their audience that just want to take them down. And even in cases where there seems to be a valid reason the way people deal with it can worsen the situation. I'm big into smash, and as you probably know a while bad we had a bunch of pedo and sexual harassment related scandals in that community. Which are a good reason to cancel someone. However the way canceling usually goes meant that well know people got thousands of messages insulting them and calling them to kill themselves and shit. Which lead to m2k, a severely autistic person who got cancelled of a rumor (that was most likely started because ha ha this guy acts weird let's make fun of him by saying he's a creep) having to give out very personal information that proved that he couldn't have done what was claimed he did. If he didn't get constantly harassed and didn't fear for his own safety he probably could've done something like give this evidence to someone well know and trusted in the community that could then state there was prove he couldn't have done it or something, but because he was getting death threats over this he couldn't. Someone who did do that was Nairo, who was cancelled because of an alleged relationship with a minor which he admitted to after the allegation was made. According to him he admitted to this because of being in a state of complete panic because thousands of people where attacking him and claiming he was a pedo. As it turns out based on what we now know, he himself was the victim of rape by the minor. It's very hard to say exactly how to treat a situation like this, what we thought these people did was genuinely horrible. But by trying to take them down rather than leaving their community we only made stuff worse. I do think the cheating metaphor you used was pretty apt, as it is like thousands of people who feel they personally know a creator although the creator doesn't know them feel personally betrayed by them being a bad person, and that makes sense. But situations like these are never best handled publicly, unless the problem party is a larger company or someone else that can't possibly face personal and legal consequences for this otherwise. Because even if they aren't a hivemind, which they aren't, if thousands or tens of thousands of people start calling someone out on something all nuance that might be in any individual voice from those people will be lost. That is what makes it seem like a hivemind I think. The problem is people do still need to be called out for their racism and shit. The way we it is happening doesn't work as it should, but not doing it at all won't work either, and saying less people need to call them out isn't really a solution since people will generally not have a good sense of scale for this stuff. I do know I'm against specifically looking for reasons to cancel someone, but I don't know how I think we should deal with people actually worth cancelling.
Thank you! alot of people do not understand this simple concept. Yes i fallowed the hive mind, as a kid. I feel as though a lot of people are emotionally stunned and not at all illiterate. They know what they're doing but they're most likely in too deep in your beliefs or afraid to death to be ostracized by the so called good guys fighting for the oppressed. It's either one or the other because there's a line you have to make for yourself. I just speak my mind and if im wrong i'll listen but never be told to do anyting. And I'm a black Centrist and we already get shit for that both 😆. Thanks for this vid man hope to see more from you.
Quite a masterpiece. Honestly I never really looked at things that way but hearing this made me look at another side. Sometimes there are ridiculous reasons someone is "cancelled" but most times it's something they did in the past and people are upset about. You have every right to be upset at whatever it may be but if a creator has been transparent about mistakes they've made in the last and addressed it to their audience then are "cancelled" then that's where I feel that its beating a dead horse. They've admitted to it and changed. Enough said. As someone who prior to 2020 was in quite a rut of being hated and hating on others it took me getting a lick of what it feels to be "cancelled" or run off for me to start actually changing. And even as a protestant I'm in a tricky area where since a lot of my beliefs class with what is becoming the norm I feel as if I betraying my own beliefs in search for internet fame. The whole calling it cancel culture thing and reducing whoever disagrees with you as childish or a mob goes both ways as people who are more understanding ot try and see your side are reduced to stans or brainwashed fans. I in particular fear cancel culture because despite how many times apologized for my stupid comments I've made on RUclips I still feel as if theirs a grim reaper just waiting for my small channel to grow then have some commentary channel make a callout video for things which I've already addressed. Even now concerning political opinions with how divided things are just being Republican or Christian may divide your audience or get people upset like with what happened to the creator of fnaf. As a content creator you really shouldn't be going out making hot takes unless your audience already understands your views. The only saving grace for me is I built my channel with a small community of people I met in RUclips comments and most of them getting to know me on my community tab. 48% of all people who view my videos are subscribed to me so about half of my viewers already understand who I am and my views and I make it very vocal of the mistakes I've made in the past in the form of community posts which I have several of. Only thing for me is while I know most of the stupid things I've said which I've addressed I don't know everything and I have a feeling theirs more crap I said when I was like 12. If anyone has read my rambles thank you.
Something that I've honestly always appreciated about your stuff is that you always know what footage to use and when. As someone who's seen Eva seeing that footage just felt like it fit SO well with your words. I tend to gush about people I like, bear with me. But nah for real, these words really were important. On one level there's certain topics like this one that I kinda really want to hear your thoughts on, not to say that I put your thoughts on a pedestal (or you do, for that matter), but the perspective you bring to the table is a breath of fresh air. And honestly despite our huge difference in numbers I really relate to many of the statements you're saying and agree with them. People are going to screw up, and I think sometimes we forget that. We also tend to hold people on certain pedestals because of their platform, and sometimes people hold themselves on that pedestal. Thinking they're immune to criticism or accountability. There's a streamer that like, makes real funny stupid stuff I still like, but I remember he made a joke that like, many people can consider transphobic. Mid 2010s shit. YET, in all the times I've liked content creators online who fuck up like that he's the only one I know who was like "Oh yeah, I fucked up, it won't happen again, wasn't my intent to offend but I won't ignore that what I said hurt people." And he wasn't wrong, he didn't fuck up like that again. Maybe my expectations are so low for certain creators but I dunno, I appreciated that. But I'm not gonna go and say that everyone would agree with me nor are people wrong for not wanting to engage with that creator after that apology (or apologies, I think he's had to address it a couple times). It's not an audience's responsibility to hold a creator accountable but I also feel like "fanbases" that are confident enough to question and call out a creator are good because they have actual independent thought. It's frustrating even on Twitter to see someone say that they fucked up and aren't making excuses, while having a bunch of people go "oh no, apologizing is for sheep, don't bend the knee to cancel culture SJWs, you didn't do anything wrong". As if being accountable is somehow a mark against you, worse than doing something "bad" to begin with. When you have a group of people who like you but don't hold you accountable, it just creates a feedback loop of the audience and creator bringing out the worst of each other. It's important to remain humble, realistic, and true to one's self. Sometimes I'm legit anxious about speaking about certain topics, even those that aren't as serious as what you discuss because of the potential of being wrong, but that's just something that's uncontrollable. It's life. The intent is what matters. While mistakes are best not done, they can't be avoided, and more people will understand you if it's obvious it's an oversight instead of intentionally trying to hurt others, and saying it isn't intentional. This isn't to say the internet's tendency to abandon creators who are toxic just to support and compare people who "aren't toxic" and ONLY like them because they aren't X person who got "cancelled" is very reductive because anyone can make a mistake. Anyone can fuck up. Acknowledging that is the most realistic thing you can do as a "content creator" on the internet. In any case, and I wholy admit that I'm biased because I'm a fan of yours and a friend, you got a good head on your shoulders. Glad that you made this. Keep it up.
You right but also I think it's important the consider the extremely reactionary environment the internet do be functioning in a lot of the time like for example with the whole Doja Cat situation which was so unclear from the start I think this is where some people sentiments come from towards feeling critical towards " cancel culture" but lol there is this irony that it's often individuals who are known to either be inflammatory or like to push people's buttons are complaining about cancel culture and that's when it looks ridiculous cause they clearing running away from Accountability
@@edgelord8337 Yh I learnt that in Rick and morty season 5 episode 1 as it doesn’t matter how good your intention is people are just not gonna like you
I actually agree with you but we can’t deny that most cancel culture is just somebody pulling up an old tweet from 10 years ago and Twitter getting mad and we rarely see people being held accountable or their actions
First off, great video, keep up the good work. Next, just my two cents on cancel culture as a term: Yes, I agree most of it is actually accountability culture and while that's fine, there are times when it is, if not "cancelling", at least cases of the hate mobs being hella ott with their abuse and being too powerful for bad reasons. For example, some figures getting doxxed and death threats like with Scott Cawthon (in his case even possibly being part of why he retired). Regardless of someone's politics, harassment to that degree is unconstructive, harmful and shouldn't happen.
i just wish _cancel culture_ could be used to take down people that really deserve it. Like the criminals that're still on this site. It really feels like all these people forgot this- "With great power, comes great responsibility"
I always enter a new content creator with skepticism about where they stand on certain parts like lgbtqia because I know it isn't always common. I am a transwoman and I would have a hard time right out abandoning you because you have shown me so much and taught me so much about the experience of black people. But even before I came out I myself acted homophobic, racist and sexist but I wasn't even aware that it was because I came from a priveleged position. I learnt afterwards and I have worked to prove myself to be a better person. I just want you to know that I support you and I am glad you are able to actually recognize that you can be wrong, especially before exploding or becoming strong as you say because it appears genuine. Thank you for being such a wonderful creator online
Not even two minutes in,already one of the best videos on the subject I've seen. I completely agree,good to see a video on it that isn't just 20 minutes of reading comments,yes storyteller does show tweets but for a purpose rather than a drama recap. Good video
To me it's far too often a bunch of hypocrites making a temporary group to pass judgment on past or recent actions of someone (& their associates) for doing the same shit they themselves don't want to be judged about.
i've been wanting to do youtube for a while, but i was always scared of what's to come if i ever become an "influencer" and if i get "cancelled" or not-- but this finally makes me want to do it, as being an influencer will always come with responsibilites and rules that some people (like myself) don't want to acknowledge and come to terms with. thanks man!
I feel very much the same away about “being canceled”; I would honestly want people to leave if I did something that made them uncomfortable. It’s not healthy to try to keep an audience that doesn’t like you anymore, and it prevents your own growth to act like you haven’t done anything wrong when lots of people are pointing it out.
The harassment can get really bad in certain cases, and that is truly saddening, but it’s not useful to call it ‘cancel culture’ because it’s reductive. Lumping together real criticism and online bullying into one nebulous umbrella of ‘cancel culture’ is unhelpful to any of these discussions.
90% of RUclipsrs recycle the same “cancel culture bad” take but you might be the only person who’s actually saying something profound about this. God bless
To anyone who thinks cancel culture is a thing, this video is perfect, to anyone who thinks it isn't, people used to lose their jobs for being gay, now people are attacked based on their fetishes, their hobbies, the food they eat, etc. It's not either it exists or it doesn't. It's that harassers call what they do "accountability culture" and assholes call accountability "cancel culture". You have to learn to tell the difference and don't jump on any bandwagons just to save yourself.
@@KAlovesherkitties Some countries hold people accountable for the horrific crime of being gay. Doxxing someone, sending them death threats, vandalizing their property, and bullying them on social media because you don't like them is harassment and saying you are just holding them accountable proves you are the type of person that needs to read my comment because I don't think you did.
I agree with this video so much. It's not "cancel" culture, it's consequence culture. If someone expresses themselves in a way that upsets people, it's a pretty cowardly retort to respond "I'm allowed to upset people with my rude opinions!! But all of you, upsetting me and my huge platform by disliking my rude opinion? Now that's crossing the line with the rudeness!" ... Yet, it sucks to get dogpiled, but the person who threw the first stone is always the one most responsible.
I like the sentiment of this video, and I know people are allowed to be hurt by different things. But it can't just be me who feels they're some who take the smallest things to the extreme. Points that have hurt them, and only them. And try to turn it into a genuine reason to try and "cancel" someone. Say for instance, I donate to a charity and it later turns out they had some homophobic view points. I've apologized for my involvement, despite not knowing about it. Then for the rest of my life, people are calling me a homophobe and saying I should loose my platform. ( If you know, you know).
I think when people are closed minded toward something or have a skewed opinion that isn’t backed by logic, they could unjustifiably “cancel”someone. I got gaslighted into thinking I was a pedophile by my ex squad of homies because I was a college freshman (that skipped a grade) talking to high schoolers of consenting ages.
I think your points are pretty reasonable. But I think there's one crucial element of cancel culture that you're missing. It's encapsulated in what you said, your standards can't be someone else's. My problem with cancel culture isn't that people are uncomfortable with the statements others make. If people were as reasonable as you said and simply chose not to engage with a certain personality based on their words or actions, that would be fine. But people don't stop there. Too many people campaign for that person's downfall. Too often they react totally on emotion and give no Credence to context at all. Far too many people are content with projecting the message that a person's ability to speak shouldn't exist anymore. When that happens, they've gone past feeling discomfort and adjusting their entertainment consumption as such. Now they are pushing their own agenda and feelings on others. In so many of these instances, people are attacked over things said when they were teenagers. There seems to be no understanding that a person can grow and change over time. Some people are called out for statements made over a decade ago. The statute of limitations on some crimes aren't that long. Granted, some cases are totally justified, especially when a person has broken the law. But many are the result of a public that jumps to Hysteria first. Basically, if tempered by reason and logic, we can call it accountability culture. But as it stands now, led by pure emotion, that's cancel culture in a lot of cases.
I definitely feel like there’s a difference between being offended by someone and choosing not to engage with their content, and being offended by someone and telling other people they must think and feel the same way you do about them and publicly harass them or else they’re a bigot
Thank you for putting into words, what I've been struggling to say about an audience holding someone they supported accountable. I hope there wont come a day where you've done and doubled down on something I would consider cancelling you over but if it does; unsubscribe, unfollow and block until significant change is made.
*Rickrolling, the practice of surprising someone with the “Never Gonna Give You Up” video clip, started around 2007. How do you feel about it?* I have no problem with it. It’s done me a lot of good, probably. The thing is it’s not personal to me, even though I know it is me and it’s my name in the title of Rickrolling. It’s that video that I’m in, it’s that song that’s mine, but it could have been anybody. *It helped introduce you to a new generation.* Totally! And reminded another generation [about me]. So I don’t see it as negative. If someone had messed around with it and cut it all up and made me look stupid - I mean I look pretty stupid anyway in that video - if it was nasty, then I’d be probably a bit pissed off, but it’s not. It’s like, “We’re choosing that video because it’s a full-on Eighties, cheesy video.” There’s no getting away from it now and I’ve got to own it because if I don’t, it’s like being petty.
storyteller rly just wrapped this whole topic up in under 10 minutes.. this is how i tend to feel about it too and its nice to see someone get it out coherently and honestly. way too often i see people reacting to criticism with "i hate cancel culture" like.. so ur just not gonna give ANY moment to hear the criticism then? u dont even have to agree w criticism against things or ppl u like but handwaving it out the gate or acting like people dont deserve to be upset on their own terms is so. Sooooo tiring
I agree wholeheartedly with your points and it's why I think blanket terms like "cancel culture" are unhelpful. It reminds me of when people say someone or something is "corrupt". Okay - corrupt how? When you're forced to specify, it often reveals the true values and motives behind the accusation. I might disagree a little bit. I encourage other people to be forgiving, in part, because I want to be forgiven and given opportunities to grow and change. I think it's easy from the anonymity behind a screen to be harsher and less forgiving than we would be in person. It's fair that everyone will draw a line in the sand somewhere, but to hold someone accountable for grievances you just discovered from many years ago feels a bit scarlet letter to me. It makes me uncomfortable. I hope we don't go down that route. I guess everyone subjectively judges case by case, but I feel online has become divided into two extremes of no accountability at all or bad faith uncharitable scrutiny of every word ever uttered. I hope this is a phase the general Internet will grow through and come to a middle ground. This leads into your point at the end of the video. Influencers can, at any point, choose to weaponize their influence, and that might include against each other. Anybody can photoshop screenshots of Twitter posts or DMs, and if enough people believe it, you might face consequences for something you never did. This gets even more frightening to me with the developing ability of deepfakes. It seems to me that in a post truth world, influencers have a higher order job of maintaining their own truth, as well as their brand. I'm worried that this will start getting worse before it gets better. I suppose though that my concerns are stemming from the post truth world on the Internet while "cancel culture" is just tangential to that. Great video as usual! They're always thought provoking and encourage me to reflect more on the topic, and hopefully that leads to learning.
"Set the standards you want for your influencers" a statement i completely agree with, but I wonder how much of the typical youtube audience actually considers that
I think there is value in holding someone accountable for reprehensible behavior or trying to get clarity on past statements. But I do wonder, from the fans side, what is gained by digging through 5+ year old tweets to bring to present light. Only saying this cause Billie Eilish got called out for stupid actions she did at 13 online. Wonder what others think about this. But good points here storyteller.
The biggest thing to remember is that you do you, and if you're changing; make sure you're changing after introspection... not in response to an angry mob.
Honestly, from the video length and the title, I was expecting this to be a joke video, especially concerning the speed of which it came out not too long after your last one about Black Capital. It was a great surprise to see this video and I will champion it for the foreseeable future.
Name me any other youtuber who has been more real in a video that this. Completely changed my narrative WHILE DOING IT!!!!!!!! I will cherish your words
How do you feel about regular people being cancelled? People losing jobs over tweets or videos of them on social media. I used to work in Customer Relations and I've seen people trying to get others fired by filming them and misrepresenting it so I'd be lying if I said I wasn't uncomfortable with the role employers play in cancel culture.
Well I believe there is a difference to be made here. I believe that everyone should have the right to set their own standarts, nobody should have the right to tell that other people should not consume a media because it made them uncomfortable. That's the beef I would have with cancel culture : that they use universalist arguments on their jugment, they postulate an absolute code of ethics and of relatioship to an artowrk. I have read "Mein Kampf" and "For my Legionnaires" not because I agree with the authors but because I believed I should read them. While I perfectly agree that some people would not want to consume artworks that makes them uncomfortable, nobody has a right to say "it should not be consumed by anyone". But more generally I think that Mark Fisher in his essay "Exiting the vampire castle" explains it far better than I could.
"nobody has a right to say "it should not be consumed by anyone"" Why not? Why is that a right prohibited to people? Is someone allowed to say "you should read this"? But saying "no you shouldn't" would be, what, illegal? Something you have no right to say? Advertising is allowed, but criticism isn't? Is criticism saying "you shouldn't read this, it's a waste of time" off limits? Do the reasons behind why someone argues against reading a certain work matter? Or do you cross a line the second you tell others not to purchase or consume a product, regardless of your justification? But advertising and promotion can be allowed to go unchecked?
@@Killua2001 ? Ok I think there is a misunderstanding. I don't know where you have read that criticism should be banned. Only thing I'm saying is that "this author has made me uncomfortable so I didn't read his/her book" is not an argument that can be used with an other person that doesn't have the same sensibilities as you. The act of canceling only makes sense at a personal scale : saying "nobody should read JK Rowling due to her stance on transgenderism" is devoid of sense because your appreciation of the impact of the personal life of the author on his/her book is only yours.
@@realityapostasy2158 The problem comes with your use of the word "right". That you deny the right of another to criticize, while allowing the right of people to promote. You may not AGREE with the argument provided, but criticism is still criticism. "Everyone should read JK Rowling because she's an awesome person who needs support" is just as vapid a reason to read something, but under your rule set, seems "allowed" while saying "don't read her books, it just financially supports a shitty person" is "disallowed". An audience can promote as well as it can criticize. Saying "everyone should check this out" is functionally the same kind of speech as "no one should look at this". But one is given preferential treatment over the other. Tellingly, it's the thing saying "consume product" that is given a pass, while "don't consume" is treated as forbidden.
@@Killua2001 I don't think we are talking about rules or laws, we are talking about epistemological arguments. A jugement based on a personal quality cannot be universal, there can simply be no debate about it.
@@realityapostasy2158 we're not talking about "logical arguments", or epistemology. We're talking about human behavior. Saying the words "everyone should watch/read/see/consume xyz for reasons pqr" do not require that those words be rational. Nor does the contrary statement, "no one should watch/read/see/consume xyz for reasons pqr" require those reasons be rational. You seem to take more issue with the latter behavior than the former. Why? Telling you not to do something angers you more than telling you to do something? Why?
@@Killua2001 Naw I like a lot of their content this is basically just a canned response to edgy titles about cancel culture. The joke is that most things called canceling are as effective as my comment, not at all. I had 0 fear that my comment would cause any real lasting harm. To be fair I don't actually remember much from this video a week on, so I no long have a formed opinion about the video.
I will never cancel you. As I grow older and more politically radical (sort of on the similar socialist like, but not like Huey), I realize people will be good or bad regardless on what I can do, genuine change begins not from the mob but the personal mentality. Plus, your take about being ‘self made’ is on point. You put in the initial effort, but it is arguably more valuable your fanbase puts in more collective effort to elevate you. It is para social as fuck. Nice video. Edit: So for a little more context because an epic quote below actually referenced it. Huey is implied to be Marxist while I am Socialist. Mutualist/Libertarian Socialist to be exact. Throw me in the anarchist umbrella too if you want, dont mind too much. I just like Proudhon a little too much lmao.
I feel like a lot of the ones who just throw out cancel culture willy nilly do so because of a fear of accountability. People would rather gaslight an entire group of people who they upset rather than admit fault.
@@nuhaomar9542 For certain things sure but people who are just being racist or homophobic and judging people for stuff they have no control over is where it's not a simple difference of opinion and just people being hateful for no justifiable reason.
People are not obligated to support someone if they do not agree with their actions. The fact that this is something that had to be considered controversial shows how subservient people can be and it’s terrifying in some ways
It's like when Joe Rogan whines about how "you can't say anything anymore!!!" even though he's got the biggest podcast on the planet and has a massive platform that reaches millions. Cancel culture isn't a thing, accountability culture is. I will say that there's some malicious people on twitter who just want to be outraged at dumb shit (like with Lindsay Ellis), but saying there's a cancel culture is absolutely monstrously idiotic.
Sometimes I sort of think Joe says the wildest shit sometimes for someone with a huge platform. I swear it is a trend for those with huge platforms put up some sort of scarecrow and attack the idea rather then the actual events and conversation being had. It is utter tone deafness. I think ‘accountability culture’ can also be subbed in for noun like ‘purist culture’, ‘mob culture’ or more even simply ‘conformist’ culture. I am not too sure if accountability is the main part, but it is definitely a huge metric on why some people apparently think it is a good idea to attack a content creator because of some dumb para social meter like “well he MIGHT have said some dumb shit and we believe that is a pattern with this behavior which is 100x worse!” Usually cancel culture can begin with something small until you get either poisoned the well so your entire character is turned into a internet punching bag or ad homined/threatened out of a community even if you were never ‘wrong’ to begin with. The right thing to do is get rid of social media groupthink but humans are a species that love group bias. It is a hard problem. But nah, baked potato looking ass thinks it is because of people policing speech so you cant ‘say anything anymore’ when in reality you could have always said what the fuck you want, but the now the consequences can stretch beyond the internet and go into irl.
No. Saying there isn't a cancel culture is monstrously idiotic. To deny the people that took their own lives, went to therapy, or had their careers ruined because they made a simple mistake (assuming what they did was even bad to begin with) is fucked beyond belief. Yes, I agree, cancel culture is a blanket term people use when they get made that they've been held accountable, but to say it doesn't exist and then calling the people that point it out "monstrously idiotic" is fucking revolting.
I revel in cancel culture! I thought that was the whole reason why the Internet was invented in the first place? To criticize each other's ideas, and put forth ideas so that they, too, can be criticized.
I wouldn’t say that I have a “platform” or call myself an influencer anything like that but I feel that I have a bit of a network out of the work I’ve been doing for a while. That said, the idea of “cancel me” if something I do or say is wrong is something I’ve always championed. I don’t need this shit. Sure. I want to achieve things and help people through the work I do and use that platform but that said…if y’all don’t want me here…then…fuck it.
I really feel like people forgot that cancelling was NEVER about deplatforming, it was just “oh this person doesn’t support me, so I’ll stop supporting them”.
Alright, let's flip this around. What if a content creator/influencer/etc expresses support _for_ things like gay rights, or criticizes the actions of the establishment, and in response members of their audience distances themselves? While the idea of 'Cancel Culture' as a reductive phrase by the right to attack and dismiss others for using the very same "vote with your wallet" capitalist system participation they idealize, the actual action of attempting to 'cancel' a person/corporation/whatever for something, is still a thing. It's just that it was never about Left or Right. What I'm pointing out is that though there are individuals that you might think are morally justified in not wanting to participate, there are others that you might disagree with. My Grandmother is homophobic, so she refuses to consume any media with an lgbtq+ actor or plotline. Her excuse is that she just doesn't feel comfortable supporting people who make those kinds of choices with their lives. And what about people that refuse to use services or goods provided by a business that holds values they don't agree with? What about the people that refused to use non-segregated areas? Never forget. Influence is power, make no mistake. And any amount of power, no matter how small, can be abused. Are you really advocating to allow anyone to use that power however they see fit, regardless of the consequences?
"What if a content creator/influencer/etc expresses support for things like gay rights, or criticizes the actions of the establishment, and in response members of their audience distances themselves?" they needed to get a better audience
@@Get-offmyprofile Yeah taking quiet refuge in your moral superiority is just pure cope. You still have an entire group of people going around trying to strong arm others into doing what they want with absolutely no oversight or accountability. Imagine you're in a relationship with someone that you are dependent on for some reason, and if they found out you held certain political beliefs, they would abandon you. Shrugging your shoulders at that might satisfy some masochistic desire to be stoic in the face of adversity, but in the end it doesn't make the situation _not fucked up_ .
It never made sense how much people would complain about cancel culture, it’s not like anybody can really run anyone off the internet, it’s endless. The people that complain about their getting canceled are usually people with millions of fans anyway that’ll forget whatever they did in a week
I’m glad you touched on people telling people to “get over it” whenever someone makes a racist, homophobic or transphobic remark just cause it’s old. The people that usually bring things to light are only speaking personally anyway, they’re not telling everyone to just stop being fans of someone, that’s impossible. And there’s a difference between saying something homophobic, racist or transphobic in your own home vs posting it online for millions to see
the idea of “cancel culture” is one of the most interesting things i’ve seen come out of internet discourse in recent years. it’s a phrase that’s basically meaningless but just by using it, it can completely change how a situation is seen. regardless of how shitty a influencers apology is, as long as they say they were cancelled or mention something abt a “twitter hivemind” ppl automatically get on their side without even fully knowing the context lol. it’s a lot harder for people to actually admit to their mistakes than for them to paint to the people criticizing them as irrational or a hivemind.
I want to frame this comment.
The worst part of "cancel culture" is that its not some new phenomenon like its very often framed to be.
"Cancelling" is a naturally occuring consequence of human social dynamics, that's basically been around as long as human beings.
The cancel culture label is really just thrown around as a smear tactic
What about Scott Cawthon?
It's not meaningless. Sounds like you're just simping for the mindless mob that pretends to be offended then gets off cancelling people
@@MrOzzification ironic because cancel culture itself is a smear tactic
There's value in apologizing, too. Statements like this are good, effectively saying "hold me accountable," but there's also the step of self-reflection. If you mess up, fess up, and try to be better. Everyone screws up sometimes. It's normal.
@@rival2859 Call somebody names that you think are offensive because their comment went way over your head 😂😭 How grown up of you bigot.
@@rival2859 I see you want to be an example of their point. Such bravery...
I go back and forth on the canceling thing. There is a definite difference between just not watching/interacting with something and criticizing it, and the sorta revelry ppl get with joining an online mob. Like the doxing, and the livestreams of ppl losing subscribers, and flat out harassment. I've gotten into that mindset (I was on tumblr) and personally thats bad for my psyche. And I mostly see that cancelling only really works on ppl who didn't have a lot of power to begin with, like literally just regular working class ppl offline. Any corporation or billionaire isn't gonna be "canceled". Otherwise, I agree with the sentiment of this video. Don't compromise your expression or your personal growth for strangers on the internet, but be open to the input of other perspectives.
I get what you mean- an online mob is exactly how I’d describe it when an Internet personality gets deemed problematic
Okay I originally just posted a joke but honestly this is a really good video. A lot of what you said has been on my mind for a while now, how much "influencers" are really built up by their audiences. Really we're all just "influencers" because we all have a responsibility to understand the effects of our words or actions, how they effect the people around us. Idk this just gave me a lot more to think about
I think this the most transparent, self-aware thing I've ever heard a RUclips Content Creator say. I don't believe in cancel culture either, it's just a buzz term used to deflect what's being discussed in the first place. People have always had the power to build and tear down others THEY themselves help built up. The term cancel culture being used is the equivalent of calling someone a tattletale in grade school, because they genuinely believe that witnessed someone doing wrong. Great video, bro, thank you for being you.
"uh huh honey."
Harriyana!?! 😭
Better than this, i think we can all see this as what it kinda is: a conglomerate of people. We don't actually have all the same ideas here, but we share the values necessary to engage and participate on the creation of the content you made. Para social, yeah, but if we analise and try to change the ways we interact with the creators and with ourselves, maybe we can do something new of this. Or not, at this point i might be tripping
First take on cancelling I agree with. Even for those who may have apologised and as much as I love some ppl who have been cancelled I.e. Lindsay Ellis (Raya), Contrapoints(B.Angel, nonbinary) or even BTS(antisemitism/colourism), I can’t help but think they tend focus on the abuse they got (which, don’t get me wrong, they absolutely should and nothing warrants the way they were treated), but don’t actually spend enough time imo to listen to the genuine and constructive criticism. I get emotionally that’s incredibly difficult to do when you’re being dogpiled, but I also think it’s disingenuous to think the outrage is just based on crazy and cruel people and at best gloss over some fair and constructive criticism. I really appreciate when content creators use their platform ppl from the community they hurt to help educate others for example, and wish they didn’t wait to get cancelled before addressing things they may have done or said.
My only issue is everyone is always quick to tear someone down for hearing someone did something bad, but when ever this thing turns out to be false or overblown and spun to make them sound worse than they actually are no one seems to be there to build them back up. This abuse of that power will only lead to that power being snuffed out.
Fucking *finally*. This is the best video on the subject that I've seen thus far.
The fact its also probably the shortest also helps ngl X)
Storyteller is always batting 100 when it comes to this kinda stuff
Saying i dont feel comfortable supporting someone & actively attacking someone are two different things. And ive seen ppl agree with such narratives of canceling someone just cuz its the popular thing to do and others are doing it. Sometimes its really not about whether some ppl actually feel offended, sometimes its about following a crowd to seem accepted. Not saying i disagree with what you said, but its not all one dimensional
There have been people receiving backlash for not speaking about what the mob wants them to speak about.
I’ve heard you discuss little bits and pieces of this subject.(mainly on stream) But this is the first video you’ve made on it.
This is really good. I haven’t seen a video that talks about cancelling this way. I also hadn’t seen a video where someone says, “you do not build an audience, your audience builds you,” a statement I find very powerful. I agree that people should be allowed to stop engaging with a content creator if at any point they feel uncomfortable. And I also agree that the term “cancel culture” has mostly been used to dismiss or distract from the reasons people are actually upset. Still, I’ve seen a lot of real bullying and harassment on the internet, and I don’t want to see that continue. So like… there’s nuance. It’s okay to stop supporting an influencer or to deplatform them, but it is never okay to harm them.
I always think of the recent shit with Lindsay Ellis. There's a lot of times where when things are offensive because, even if you were careful and meant well, your words could be read negatively. There comes a point where your size grows so large that its impossible to hear the valid criticisms, and even the softest tones x100000 becomes mentally deteriorating to wade through.
Does this mean that the discomfort of those people on Twitter were invalid about the avatar comment? Hell no. We've been broken by a society that primes us to see how easy it is to other and diminish people, because it does nothing but encourage it.
I still agree with storytellers sentiment though. If i make a mistake, or even if my actions can be read maliciously, you deserve to have that discomfort expressed.
But we should also realize that unless the wrongs were so intensely bad that a group of people can all coherently point it out to you in unison, that discomfort and easily become a torrent of insults and malice, contorted beyond recognition
Like, seriously, we see this shit happen with academic sociology. Hell, it happens with anything. A group of people can easily dilute the core of a message unless that core strong enough to withstand it all
I don't think Lindsay Ellis is a good example of a content creator "fessing up" to something they did wrong or inadvertently upset/offended people, because she made an hour or so long video where she handwaves away *her* part in the backlash, and gaslights the community hurt by her comments by bringing up being doxxed and harassed during the height of GamerGate, and a sexual assault she experienced in her personal life, and basically went "You triggered me by bringing up these painful memories by calling me out and attempting to hold me accountable for my behaviour!" and essentially used her own pain and trauma to speak over the voices of those in the Asian community she upset, even if it was unintentionally.
Let's also not forget she has a history of going on Twitter meltdowns about "Cancel Culture going too far" every time people call out her shitty friend Natalie Wynn (ContraPoints) when she does stupid shit like sympathize with alt-right incels, insist that we try to make friends with our oppressors, or goes on one of her truscum tirades about nonbinary people/"Transtrenders" not being "real trans" because they don't suffer from Gender Dysphoria or they don't experience it the way *she* did, and how she wants to understand nonbinary people and their experience with transness "as long as it's within reason" or how she "doesn't want to blindly do as she's told and use enbies pronouns, she wants to know WHY she should do it" as in we need to convince her that she should use the pronouns and names we prefer, when that's something that is unquestioningly done for her as a binary trans woman.
Honestly fuck Lindsay Ellis. Fuck Natalie Wynn. Fuck Sarah Z. Fuck Jenny Nicholson. Fuck Abby Thorne. They're all shining examples of Moderates masquerading as Leftists. (aka The Dirtbag Left)
Moral of the Story: hold people accountable, especially the ones you look up to.
I think there needs to be a code of conduct and levels to how to deal to with any given person/situation since life is a spectrum so naturally theres a spectrum to offense
Watching this 3 days after I watched Chappelle's new special The Closer. The fallout has already started. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out.
I disagree with cancel culture not being a thing. When I see people going "this person did something that got them canceled, let's make sure their friends are next" or some stuff like that I think that's cancel culture. It's people getting enjoyment out of taking big creators down and specifically trying to find reasons to cancel them. And it's probably not a very large group of people, but if they do find stuff which they are likely to if they dig far enough they will start trying to convince everyone to stop consuming this person's content and calling them a bad person if they don't. And once you got a decent group of people claiming you are a horrible person for something that you said 5 years ago that was taken out of context that's gonna be pretty bad for the creator's mental health.
I think it's good content creators get called out for their shit and that people are willing to stop supporting people they don't feel comfortable with anymore, but there are so many cases of people doing something minor wrong and getting aggressively harassed by a segment of their audience and people outside their audience that just want to take them down.
And even in cases where there seems to be a valid reason the way people deal with it can worsen the situation. I'm big into smash, and as you probably know a while bad we had a bunch of pedo and sexual harassment related scandals in that community. Which are a good reason to cancel someone. However the way canceling usually goes meant that well know people got thousands of messages insulting them and calling them to kill themselves and shit. Which lead to m2k, a severely autistic person who got cancelled of a rumor (that was most likely started because ha ha this guy acts weird let's make fun of him by saying he's a creep) having to give out very personal information that proved that he couldn't have done what was claimed he did. If he didn't get constantly harassed and didn't fear for his own safety he probably could've done something like give this evidence to someone well know and trusted in the community that could then state there was prove he couldn't have done it or something, but because he was getting death threats over this he couldn't.
Someone who did do that was Nairo, who was cancelled because of an alleged relationship with a minor which he admitted to after the allegation was made. According to him he admitted to this because of being in a state of complete panic because thousands of people where attacking him and claiming he was a pedo. As it turns out based on what we now know, he himself was the victim of rape by the minor.
It's very hard to say exactly how to treat a situation like this, what we thought these people did was genuinely horrible. But by trying to take them down rather than leaving their community we only made stuff worse. I do think the cheating metaphor you used was pretty apt, as it is like thousands of people who feel they personally know a creator although the creator doesn't know them feel personally betrayed by them being a bad person, and that makes sense. But situations like these are never best handled publicly, unless the problem party is a larger company or someone else that can't possibly face personal and legal consequences for this otherwise. Because even if they aren't a hivemind, which they aren't, if thousands or tens of thousands of people start calling someone out on something all nuance that might be in any individual voice from those people will be lost. That is what makes it seem like a hivemind I think.
The problem is people do still need to be called out for their racism and shit. The way we it is happening doesn't work as it should, but not doing it at all won't work either, and saying less people need to call them out isn't really a solution since people will generally not have a good sense of scale for this stuff. I do know I'm against specifically looking for reasons to cancel someone, but I don't know how I think we should deal with people actually worth cancelling.
Thank you! alot of people do not understand this simple concept. Yes i fallowed the hive mind, as a kid. I feel as though a lot of people are emotionally stunned and not at all illiterate. They know what they're doing but they're most likely in too deep in your beliefs or afraid to death to be ostracized by the so called good guys fighting for the oppressed. It's either one or the other because there's a line you have to make for yourself.
I just speak my mind and if im wrong i'll listen but never be told to do anyting. And I'm a black Centrist and we already get shit for that both 😆.
Thanks for this vid man hope to see more from you.
Quite a masterpiece.
Honestly I never really looked at things that way but hearing this made me look at another side.
Sometimes there are ridiculous reasons someone is "cancelled" but most times it's something they did in the past and people are upset about.
You have every right to be upset at whatever it may be but if a creator has been transparent about mistakes they've made in the last and addressed it to their audience then are "cancelled" then that's where I feel that its beating a dead horse.
They've admitted to it and changed.
Enough said.
As someone who prior to 2020 was in quite a rut of being hated and hating on others it took me getting a lick of what it feels to be "cancelled" or run off for me to start actually changing.
And even as a protestant I'm in a tricky area where since a lot of my beliefs class with what is becoming the norm I feel as if I betraying my own beliefs in search for internet fame.
The whole calling it cancel culture thing and reducing whoever disagrees with you as childish or a mob goes both ways as people who are more understanding ot try and see your side are reduced to stans or brainwashed fans.
I in particular fear cancel culture because despite how many times apologized for my stupid comments I've made on RUclips I still feel as if theirs a grim reaper just waiting for my small channel to grow then have some commentary channel make a callout video for things which I've already addressed.
Even now concerning political opinions with how divided things are just being Republican or Christian may divide your audience or get people upset like with what happened to the creator of fnaf.
As a content creator you really shouldn't be going out making hot takes unless your audience already understands your views.
The only saving grace for me is I built my channel with a small community of people I met in RUclips comments and most of them getting to know me on my community tab.
48% of all people who view my videos are subscribed to me so about half of my viewers already understand who I am and my views and I make it very vocal of the mistakes I've made in the past in the form of community posts which I have several of.
Only thing for me is while I know most of the stupid things I've said which I've addressed I don't know everything and I have a feeling theirs more crap I said when I was like 12.
If anyone has read my rambles thank you.
Don’t betray your own beliefs in search of internet fame. Internet fame may last a while, but not FOREVER you know what I mean?
Something that I've honestly always appreciated about your stuff is that you always know what footage to use and when. As someone who's seen Eva seeing that footage just felt like it fit SO well with your words.
I tend to gush about people I like, bear with me.
But nah for real, these words really were important. On one level there's certain topics like this one that I kinda really want to hear your thoughts on, not to say that I put your thoughts on a pedestal (or you do, for that matter), but the perspective you bring to the table is a breath of fresh air. And honestly despite our huge difference in numbers I really relate to many of the statements you're saying and agree with them.
People are going to screw up, and I think sometimes we forget that. We also tend to hold people on certain pedestals because of their platform, and sometimes people hold themselves on that pedestal. Thinking they're immune to criticism or accountability. There's a streamer that like, makes real funny stupid stuff I still like, but I remember he made a joke that like, many people can consider transphobic. Mid 2010s shit. YET, in all the times I've liked content creators online who fuck up like that he's the only one I know who was like "Oh yeah, I fucked up, it won't happen again, wasn't my intent to offend but I won't ignore that what I said hurt people." And he wasn't wrong, he didn't fuck up like that again. Maybe my expectations are so low for certain creators but I dunno, I appreciated that. But I'm not gonna go and say that everyone would agree with me nor are people wrong for not wanting to engage with that creator after that apology (or apologies, I think he's had to address it a couple times).
It's not an audience's responsibility to hold a creator accountable but I also feel like "fanbases" that are confident enough to question and call out a creator are good because they have actual independent thought. It's frustrating even on Twitter to see someone say that they fucked up and aren't making excuses, while having a bunch of people go "oh no, apologizing is for sheep, don't bend the knee to cancel culture SJWs, you didn't do anything wrong". As if being accountable is somehow a mark against you, worse than doing something "bad" to begin with. When you have a group of people who like you but don't hold you accountable, it just creates a feedback loop of the audience and creator bringing out the worst of each other.
It's important to remain humble, realistic, and true to one's self. Sometimes I'm legit anxious about speaking about certain topics, even those that aren't as serious as what you discuss because of the potential of being wrong, but that's just something that's uncontrollable. It's life. The intent is what matters. While mistakes are best not done, they can't be avoided, and more people will understand you if it's obvious it's an oversight instead of intentionally trying to hurt others, and saying it isn't intentional. This isn't to say the internet's tendency to abandon creators who are toxic just to support and compare people who "aren't toxic" and ONLY like them because they aren't X person who got "cancelled" is very reductive because anyone can make a mistake. Anyone can fuck up. Acknowledging that is the most realistic thing you can do as a "content creator" on the internet.
In any case, and I wholy admit that I'm biased because I'm a fan of yours and a friend, you got a good head on your shoulders. Glad that you made this. Keep it up.
This was a tight vid. I've rewatched it 5 times, and it feels like a fresh take every time
You right but also I think it's important the consider the extremely reactionary environment the internet do be functioning in a lot of the time like for example with the whole Doja Cat situation which was so unclear from the start I think this is where some people sentiments come from towards feeling critical towards " cancel culture" but lol there is this irony that it's often individuals who are known to either be inflammatory or like to push people's buttons are complaining about cancel culture and that's when it looks ridiculous cause they clearing running away from Accountability
People will always be mad. We can't satisfy everyone unfortunately
No matter how many apologies not everyone is gonna accept you.
@@edgelord8337 Yh I learnt that in Rick and morty season 5 episode 1 as it doesn’t matter how good your intention is people are just not gonna like you
@@xcx3572 it's a bitter pill to swallow
I actually agree with you but we can’t deny that most cancel culture is just somebody pulling up an old tweet from 10 years ago and Twitter getting mad and we rarely see people being held accountable or their actions
This continues to be one of the most underrated channels out there. Very few creators have such insightfully honest commentary
Art is always a gift to your listener, the gift of a different perspective. Thus, it follows all the rules of gift-giving.
I see it like this:
The same way you came in is the same way you can leave.
First off, great video, keep up the good work.
Next, just my two cents on cancel culture as a term: Yes, I agree most of it is actually accountability culture and while that's fine, there are times when it is, if not "cancelling", at least cases of the hate mobs being hella ott with their abuse and being too powerful for bad reasons. For example, some figures getting doxxed and death threats like with Scott Cawthon (in his case even possibly being part of why he retired). Regardless of someone's politics, harassment to that degree is unconstructive, harmful and shouldn't happen.
End credits song is *potsu - Be*
i just wish _cancel culture_ could be used to take down people that really deserve it. Like the criminals that're still on this site. It really feels like all these people forgot this-
"With great power, comes great responsibility"
Thank You!
I always enter a new content creator with skepticism about where they stand on certain parts like lgbtqia because I know it isn't always common. I am a transwoman and I would have a hard time right out abandoning you because you have shown me so much and taught me so much about the experience of black people.
But even before I came out I myself acted homophobic, racist and sexist but I wasn't even aware that it was because I came from a priveleged position. I learnt afterwards and I have worked to prove myself to be a better person. I just want you to know that I support you and I am glad you are able to actually recognize that you can be wrong, especially before exploding or becoming strong as you say because it appears genuine.
Thank you for being such a wonderful creator online
Wow, an excellent video about "cancelling" from a left perspective that isn’t 4 hours long? It’s a miracle
Not even two minutes in,already one of the best videos on the subject I've seen.
I completely agree,good to see a video on it that isn't just 20 minutes of reading comments,yes storyteller does show tweets but for a purpose rather than a drama recap. Good video
Real recognize Real and this is a real and measured video. Good shit.
Iver never met another straight black male that shared so many of the same views as me. This channel is top 5.
To me it's far too often a bunch of hypocrites making a temporary group to pass judgment on past or recent actions of someone (& their associates) for doing the same shit they themselves don't want to be judged about.
i've been wanting to do youtube for a while, but i was always scared of what's to come if i ever become an "influencer" and if i get "cancelled" or not-- but this finally makes me want to do it, as being an influencer will always come with responsibilites and rules that some people (like myself) don't want to acknowledge and come to terms with. thanks man!
Real shit man, you got some serious integrity
Bro you've on every point I was thinking to myself just yesterday about fame and influence! The Jenga analogy is so on point too. Thank you for this!
I feel very much the same away about “being canceled”; I would honestly want people to leave if I did something that made them uncomfortable. It’s not healthy to try to keep an audience that doesn’t like you anymore, and it prevents your own growth to act like you haven’t done anything wrong when lots of people are pointing it out.
The harassment can get really bad in certain cases, and that is truly saddening, but it’s not useful to call it ‘cancel culture’ because it’s reductive. Lumping together real criticism and online bullying into one nebulous umbrella of ‘cancel culture’ is unhelpful to any of these discussions.
90% of RUclipsrs recycle the same “cancel culture bad” take but you might be the only person who’s actually saying something profound about this. God bless
Best subscriber milestone video I’ve ever seen.
Few channels I watch put out the type of quality videos that you do. You’re special, good job on the video.
You love to see it.
By the way, I love the reframing of the Eva clips. Totally different context but it works perfectly.
To anyone who thinks cancel culture is a thing, this video is perfect, to anyone who thinks it isn't, people used to lose their jobs for being gay, now people are attacked based on their fetishes, their hobbies, the food they eat, etc. It's not either it exists or it doesn't. It's that harassers call what they do "accountability culture" and assholes call accountability "cancel culture". You have to learn to tell the difference and don't jump on any bandwagons just to save yourself.
Holding someone accountable for saying something terrible doesn’t really constitute as harassment.
@@KAlovesherkitties Some countries hold people accountable for the horrific crime of being gay. Doxxing someone, sending them death threats, vandalizing their property, and bullying them on social media because you don't like them is harassment and saying you are just holding them accountable proves you are the type of person that needs to read my comment because I don't think you did.
Thank you for being honest and transparent to you’re audience, congratulations on 50k
4:10 *12:00 PM - May 29, 2025*
I honestly thought those tweets were real, until I read the dates. Lol
I agree with this video so much. It's not "cancel" culture, it's consequence culture. If someone expresses themselves in a way that upsets people, it's a pretty cowardly retort to respond "I'm allowed to upset people with my rude opinions!! But all of you, upsetting me and my huge platform by disliking my rude opinion? Now that's crossing the line with the rudeness!" ... Yet, it sucks to get dogpiled, but the person who threw the first stone is always the one most responsible.
I like the sentiment of this video, and I know people are allowed to be hurt by different things. But it can't just be me who feels they're some who take the smallest things to the extreme. Points that have hurt them, and only them. And try to turn it into a genuine reason to try and "cancel" someone.
Say for instance, I donate to a charity and it later turns out they had some homophobic view points. I've apologized for my involvement, despite not knowing about it. Then for the rest of my life, people are calling me a homophobe and saying I should loose my platform. ( If you know, you know).
You're one of my favorite RUclipsrs and immediately posting this take as you hit what's often seem as a *small* goal makes me so fucking happy.
I think when people are closed minded toward something or have a skewed opinion that isn’t backed by logic, they could unjustifiably “cancel”someone. I got gaslighted into thinking I was a pedophile by my ex squad of homies because I was a college freshman (that skipped a grade) talking to high schoolers of consenting ages.
I think your points are pretty reasonable. But I think there's one crucial element of cancel culture that you're missing. It's encapsulated in what you said, your standards can't be someone else's. My problem with cancel culture isn't that people are uncomfortable with the statements others make. If people were as reasonable as you said and simply chose not to engage with a certain personality based on their words or actions, that would be fine. But people don't stop there. Too many people campaign for that person's downfall. Too often they react totally on emotion and give no Credence to context at all. Far too many people are content with projecting the message that a person's ability to speak shouldn't exist anymore. When that happens, they've gone past feeling discomfort and adjusting their entertainment consumption as such. Now they are pushing their own agenda and feelings on others. In so many of these instances, people are attacked over things said when they were teenagers. There seems to be no understanding that a person can grow and change over time. Some people are called out for statements made over a decade ago. The statute of limitations on some crimes aren't that long. Granted, some cases are totally justified, especially when a person has broken the law. But many are the result of a public that jumps to Hysteria first. Basically, if tempered by reason and logic, we can call it accountability culture. But as it stands now, led by pure emotion, that's cancel culture in a lot of cases.
I definitely feel like there’s a difference between being offended by someone and choosing not to engage with their content, and being offended by someone and telling other people they must think and feel the same way you do about them and publicly harass them or else they’re a bigot
Great content as always!
Yoo great analogy man! Powerful message 🤘🔥👊🙏😈!!!!
Thank you for putting into words, what I've been struggling to say about an audience holding someone they supported accountable. I hope there wont come a day where you've done and doubled down on something I would consider cancelling you over but if it does; unsubscribe, unfollow and block until significant change is made.
Quick suggestion: Read Rick Ashley's interview about the popularity of the Rick Roll.
www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/rick-astley-on-benefits-of-rickrolling-taking-cues-from-adele-252023/
*Rickrolling, the practice of surprising someone with the “Never Gonna Give You Up” video clip, started around 2007. How do you feel about it?*
I have no problem with it. It’s done me a lot of good, probably. The thing is it’s not personal to me, even though I know it is me and it’s my name in the title of Rickrolling. It’s that video that I’m in, it’s that song that’s mine, but it could have been anybody.
*It helped introduce you to a new generation.*
Totally! And reminded another generation [about me]. So I don’t see it as negative. If someone had messed around with it and cut it all up and made me look stupid - I mean I look pretty stupid anyway in that video - if it was nasty, then I’d be probably a bit pissed off, but it’s not. It’s like, “We’re choosing that video because it’s a full-on Eighties, cheesy video.” There’s no getting away from it now and I’ve got to own it because if I don’t, it’s like being petty.
congrats on the 50k fam keep up the good content
storyteller rly just wrapped this whole topic up in under 10 minutes.. this is how i tend to feel about it too and its nice to see someone get it out coherently and honestly. way too often i see people reacting to criticism with "i hate cancel culture" like.. so ur just not gonna give ANY moment to hear the criticism then? u dont even have to agree w criticism against things or ppl u like but handwaving it out the gate or acting like people dont deserve to be upset on their own terms is so. Sooooo tiring
Congratulations on reaching 50k subscribers!
dudes videos are so well done man. this video should have 170,000 views wtf
I agree wholeheartedly with your points and it's why I think blanket terms like "cancel culture" are unhelpful. It reminds me of when people say someone or something is "corrupt". Okay - corrupt how? When you're forced to specify, it often reveals the true values and motives behind the accusation.
I might disagree a little bit. I encourage other people to be forgiving, in part, because I want to be forgiven and given opportunities to grow and change. I think it's easy from the anonymity behind a screen to be harsher and less forgiving than we would be in person. It's fair that everyone will draw a line in the sand somewhere, but to hold someone accountable for grievances you just discovered from many years ago feels a bit scarlet letter to me. It makes me uncomfortable. I hope we don't go down that route. I guess everyone subjectively judges case by case, but I feel online has become divided into two extremes of no accountability at all or bad faith uncharitable scrutiny of every word ever uttered. I hope this is a phase the general Internet will grow through and come to a middle ground.
This leads into your point at the end of the video. Influencers can, at any point, choose to weaponize their influence, and that might include against each other. Anybody can photoshop screenshots of Twitter posts or DMs, and if enough people believe it, you might face consequences for something you never did. This gets even more frightening to me with the developing ability of deepfakes.
It seems to me that in a post truth world, influencers have a higher order job of maintaining their own truth, as well as their brand. I'm worried that this will start getting worse before it gets better. I suppose though that my concerns are stemming from the post truth world on the Internet while "cancel culture" is just tangential to that.
Great video as usual! They're always thought provoking and encourage me to reflect more on the topic, and hopefully that leads to learning.
So much wisdom. Thank you.
Outro song is Be by potsu and Rav
Some real shit you said, kinda tired of the masses babying 30/40 men with platforms
"Set the standards you want for your influencers" a statement i completely agree with, but I wonder how much of the typical youtube audience actually considers that
Damn, I miss your videos! Where you been? Was worried you might've been cancelled or something...
🖖🏾😉
Awesome vid, as always! ✊🏾💯❤️☮️
I think there is value in holding someone accountable for reprehensible behavior or trying to get clarity on past statements. But I do wonder, from the fans side, what is gained by digging through 5+ year old tweets to bring to present light. Only saying this cause Billie Eilish got called out for stupid actions she did at 13 online. Wonder what others think about this. But good points here storyteller.
Yoooo did I hear some Rav in the background?
Love for this channel shall grow and it shall has its audience expand so much more.
The biggest thing to remember is that you do you, and if you're changing; make sure you're changing after introspection... not in response to an angry mob.
Honestly, from the video length and the title, I was expecting this to be a joke video, especially concerning the speed of which it came out not too long after your last one about Black Capital. It was a great surprise to see this video and I will champion it for the foreseeable future.
Name me any other youtuber who has been more real in a video that this. Completely changed my narrative WHILE DOING IT!!!!!!!! I will cherish your words
Congrats on 50K.
No one's perfect.
Wow... I've never seen someone embrace cancel culture because of his belief in an audience's own agency...
How do you feel about regular people being cancelled? People losing jobs over tweets or videos of them on social media. I used to work in Customer Relations and I've seen people trying to get others fired by filming them and misrepresenting it so I'd be lying if I said I wasn't uncomfortable with the role employers play in cancel culture.
The voices that "cancel" you are the same voices that lifted you in the first place. They have the right to retract their support.
i really should take the sus laws more seriously than i di
Well I believe there is a difference to be made here. I believe that everyone should have the right to set their own standarts, nobody should have the right to tell that other people should not consume a media because it made them uncomfortable. That's the beef I would have with cancel culture : that they use universalist arguments on their jugment, they postulate an absolute code of ethics and of relatioship to an artowrk. I have read "Mein Kampf" and "For my Legionnaires" not because I agree with the authors but because I believed I should read them. While I perfectly agree that some people would not want to consume artworks that makes them uncomfortable, nobody has a right to say "it should not be consumed by anyone". But more generally I think that Mark Fisher in his essay "Exiting the vampire castle" explains it far better than I could.
"nobody has a right to say "it should not be consumed by anyone""
Why not? Why is that a right prohibited to people? Is someone allowed to say "you should read this"? But saying "no you shouldn't" would be, what, illegal? Something you have no right to say?
Advertising is allowed, but criticism isn't? Is criticism saying "you shouldn't read this, it's a waste of time" off limits? Do the reasons behind why someone argues against reading a certain work matter? Or do you cross a line the second you tell others not to purchase or consume a product, regardless of your justification?
But advertising and promotion can be allowed to go unchecked?
@@Killua2001 ? Ok I think there is a misunderstanding. I don't know where you have read that criticism should be banned. Only thing I'm saying is that "this author has made me uncomfortable so I didn't read his/her book" is not an argument that can be used with an other person that doesn't have the same sensibilities as you. The act of canceling only makes sense at a personal scale : saying "nobody should read JK Rowling due to her stance on transgenderism" is devoid of sense because your appreciation of the impact of the personal life of the author on his/her book is only yours.
@@realityapostasy2158 The problem comes with your use of the word "right". That you deny the right of another to criticize, while allowing the right of people to promote.
You may not AGREE with the argument provided, but criticism is still criticism. "Everyone should read JK Rowling because she's an awesome person who needs support" is just as vapid a reason to read something, but under your rule set, seems "allowed" while saying "don't read her books, it just financially supports a shitty person" is "disallowed".
An audience can promote as well as it can criticize. Saying "everyone should check this out" is functionally the same kind of speech as "no one should look at this".
But one is given preferential treatment over the other. Tellingly, it's the thing saying "consume product" that is given a pass, while "don't consume" is treated as forbidden.
@@Killua2001 I don't think we are talking about rules or laws, we are talking about epistemological arguments. A jugement based on a personal quality cannot be universal, there can simply be no debate about it.
@@realityapostasy2158 we're not talking about "logical arguments", or epistemology.
We're talking about human behavior. Saying the words "everyone should watch/read/see/consume xyz for reasons pqr" do not require that those words be rational. Nor does the contrary statement, "no one should watch/read/see/consume xyz for reasons pqr" require those reasons be rational.
You seem to take more issue with the latter behavior than the former. Why?
Telling you not to do something angers you more than telling you to do something? Why?
Okay Edge Lord haha. Cancelled boom.
Somehow I get the feeling you wouldn't much watch any of his content regardless.
@@Killua2001 Naw I like a lot of their content this is basically just a canned response to edgy titles about cancel culture. The joke is that most things called canceling are as effective as my comment, not at all. I had 0 fear that my comment would cause any real lasting harm.
To be fair I don't actually remember much from this video a week on, so I no long have a formed opinion about the video.
You and Dusty Smith are the only youtubers I have ever seen talk about being held accountable by their audiences
I will never cancel you. As I grow older and more politically radical (sort of on the similar socialist like, but not like Huey), I realize people will be good or bad regardless on what I can do, genuine change begins not from the mob but the personal mentality.
Plus, your take about being ‘self made’ is on point. You put in the initial effort, but it is arguably more valuable your fanbase puts in more collective effort to elevate you. It is para social as fuck.
Nice video.
Edit: So for a little more context because an epic quote below actually referenced it. Huey is implied to be Marxist while I am Socialist. Mutualist/Libertarian Socialist to be exact. Throw me in the anarchist umbrella too if you want, dont mind too much. I just like Proudhon a little too much lmao.
Commenting to support the algorithm. Stay real ST.
I love this take
I feel like a lot of the ones who just throw out cancel culture willy nilly do so because of a fear of accountability. People would rather gaslight an entire group of people who they upset rather than admit fault.
unless there was no fault. most people cancelling others are being hypocritical and probably do it themselves
Sometimes its not even an objective fault , its a difference of values that people get attacked for. Like ideological differences
@@nuhaomar9542 For certain things sure but people who are just being racist or homophobic and judging people for stuff they have no control over is where it's not a simple difference of opinion and just people being hateful for no justifiable reason.
@@caldw615 it’s debatable wether things are sexist or racist though. Cancelers can have bad takes sometimes
Awesome video. Everything was well said.
My problem with cancel culture is the mob mentality.
People are not obligated to support someone if they do not agree with their actions. The fact that this is something that had to be considered controversial shows how subservient people can be and it’s terrifying in some ways
It's like when Joe Rogan whines about how "you can't say anything anymore!!!" even though he's got the biggest podcast on the planet and has a massive platform that reaches millions. Cancel culture isn't a thing, accountability culture is.
I will say that there's some malicious people on twitter who just want to be outraged at dumb shit (like with Lindsay Ellis), but saying there's a cancel culture is absolutely monstrously idiotic.
Sometimes I sort of think Joe says the wildest shit sometimes for someone with a huge platform. I swear it is a trend for those with huge platforms put up some sort of scarecrow and attack the idea rather then the actual events and conversation being had. It is utter tone deafness.
I think ‘accountability culture’ can also be subbed in for noun like ‘purist culture’, ‘mob culture’ or more even simply ‘conformist’ culture. I am not too sure if accountability is the main part, but it is definitely a huge metric on why some people apparently think it is a good idea to attack a content creator because of some dumb para social meter like “well he MIGHT have said some dumb shit and we believe that is a pattern with this behavior which is 100x worse!”
Usually cancel culture can begin with something small until you get either poisoned the well so your entire character is turned into a internet punching bag or ad homined/threatened out of a community even if you were never ‘wrong’ to begin with.
The right thing to do is get rid of social media groupthink but humans are a species that love group bias. It is a hard problem.
But nah, baked potato looking ass thinks it is because of people policing speech so you cant ‘say anything anymore’ when in reality you could have always said what the fuck you want, but the now the consequences can stretch beyond the internet and go into irl.
No. Saying there isn't a cancel culture is monstrously idiotic. To deny the people that took their own lives, went to therapy, or had their careers ruined because they made a simple mistake (assuming what they did was even bad to begin with) is fucked beyond belief.
Yes, I agree, cancel culture is a blanket term people use when they get made that they've been held accountable, but to say it doesn't exist and then calling the people that point it out "monstrously idiotic" is fucking revolting.
I revel in cancel culture! I thought that was the whole reason why the Internet was invented in the first place? To criticize each other's ideas, and put forth ideas so that they, too, can be criticized.
@@Molecular-Brainwaves-Translate I'm pretty sure the internet was invented for the military lol.
@@KesslerWB it was probably NASA
That's a fast turnaround time!
Is this a 50k special?
babe wake up new TheStoryteller upload
That Kanye tho.... Man of culture
I wouldn’t say that I have a “platform” or call myself an influencer anything like that but I feel that I have a bit of a network out of the work I’ve been doing for a while.
That said, the idea of “cancel me” if something I do or say is wrong is something I’ve always championed. I don’t need this shit. Sure. I want to achieve things and help people through the work I do and use that platform but that said…if y’all don’t want me here…then…fuck it.
I got a PragerU Ad after this video unbelievable lmao
I really feel like people forgot that cancelling was NEVER about deplatforming, it was just “oh this person doesn’t support me, so I’ll stop supporting them”.
Alright, let's flip this around.
What if a content creator/influencer/etc expresses support _for_ things like gay rights, or criticizes the actions of the establishment, and in response members of their audience distances themselves? While the idea of 'Cancel Culture' as a reductive phrase by the right to attack and dismiss others for using the very same "vote with your wallet" capitalist system participation they idealize, the actual action of attempting to 'cancel' a person/corporation/whatever for something, is still a thing. It's just that it was never about Left or Right.
What I'm pointing out is that though there are individuals that you might think are morally justified in not wanting to participate, there are others that you might disagree with. My Grandmother is homophobic, so she refuses to consume any media with an lgbtq+ actor or plotline. Her excuse is that she just doesn't feel comfortable supporting people who make those kinds of choices with their lives.
And what about people that refuse to use services or goods provided by a business that holds values they don't agree with? What about the people that refused to use non-segregated areas?
Never forget. Influence is power, make no mistake. And any amount of power, no matter how small, can be abused. Are you really advocating to allow anyone to use that power however they see fit, regardless of the consequences?
"What if a content creator/influencer/etc expresses support for things like gay rights, or criticizes the actions of the establishment, and in response members of their audience distances themselves?"
they needed to get a better audience
@@Get-offmyprofile Yeah taking quiet refuge in your moral superiority is just pure cope. You still have an entire group of people going around trying to strong arm others into doing what they want with absolutely no oversight or accountability.
Imagine you're in a relationship with someone that you are dependent on for some reason, and if they found out you held certain political beliefs, they would abandon you. Shrugging your shoulders at that might satisfy some masochistic desire to be stoic in the face of adversity, but in the end it doesn't make the situation _not fucked up_ .
What was the name of the last song “show me how to be i'll show you how to not”??
Wow! Twitter lasts until 2025? 🤔 I thought Elon would destroy it long before then.
It never made sense how much people would complain about cancel culture, it’s not like anybody can really run anyone off the internet, it’s endless. The people that complain about their getting canceled are usually people with millions of fans anyway that’ll forget whatever they did in a week
I’m glad you touched on people telling people to “get over it” whenever someone makes a racist, homophobic or transphobic remark just cause it’s old. The people that usually bring things to light are only speaking personally anyway, they’re not telling everyone to just stop being fans of someone, that’s impossible. And there’s a difference between saying something homophobic, racist or transphobic in your own home vs posting it online for millions to see