I worked on a tuna boat in 83 and was introduced to Samson rope. Have learned to splice braided rope, but couldn’t remember the quick lesson I received on the great stuff. Very comprehensive video! Really impressed by your teaching. Maybe you have done a few? Insert chuckle. Thanks!
Hey Eric! You did it perfect! Wonderful pice of art! And good instruction videoclip! Thanks! Okey, I have an question! Maybe someone allready has asked you: But what it the Breaking Load in KN or Kilo, in this example? and sugest of Working Load WL in KN or Kilo? Best regards!
The Brion Toss Arborist's Splicing Wand is 42" long and can be ordered from Brion Toss Yacht Riggers in Port Townsend, WA. It costs $75.00. They make a variety of other sizes, so make sure you specify the 42" arborist's wand. But if you don't want to fork out that kind of money you can make do just fine with a wire fid.
You are skilled and make it look easy...I tried splicing 16 strand once and gave up after a few hrs...I can do double braid, hollow braid and three strand, but 16 strand is beyond me. THanks for the demo!
I have a question. This friction saver has no core strand correct? It’s on the the out side of the rope that you make this friction savor with? I want to know exactly how it’s done so o can try to make my own. Great demonstration thank you! Please let me know!
You are correct. With a 16-strand rope about 75% of the strength is in the cover strands. By replacing the original core strands with the tapered cover strands you retain the shape of the rope as well as most of the original strength.
Are those cutting pliers you used still made? I like the idea of a cutter that uses box cutter blades, but when I google search I can't seem to find them. Could you point me to a link that has them or maybe a special name I should search for?
There are a couple of choices. Mine are Craftsman 9-37309 Utility Cutters. I got mine at a hardware store, but I think you might also find them at Walmart under the name "Ronan" cutters. They cost about $45.00. The other alternative is the Stein Razor Rope Cutter, which is available from Treestuff for $36.99. In both cases you want to be sure to buy carbide cutter blades. They cut much better than standard steel blades.
I recently had someone ask about the breaking strength of one these friction savers. I had one break-tested in the basket hitch configuration and it broke at 11, 169 pounds.
I see this was over a year ago when you had this break tested, but where do you send your splices/equipment to see if they're safe enough to climb with and use as life support?
I usually send samples to "Splicing Break Test Service" at Treestuff. It is expensive, but they do a good job and send you a printout of the results, plus they return the sample to you so you can see how it broke. @@gelosmelo
You don't want to use a hot knife because that will fuse the ends of the strands together. The strands need to be separated so you can pull them out when you do the taper.
It will work for other 16-strand ropes. You can use double-braid ropes like blue moon and velocity for friction savers, but you have to use double-braid splices instead of 16-strand splices. Those splices are not difficult, but are completely different than 16-strand splices.
The core strands are very loosely woven and are too big and heavy to use for whipping and lock-stitching. What you want is waxed whipping twine. It holds its shape better and is easy to thread on a needle. For Arbormaster rope I like the #8 whipping twine by Marlow or Robline.
Good question Ricardo. A few years ago I made one that was 28" long and had it break-tested in the basket hitch configuration. It broke at 11, 169 lbs. Before the rope finally broke it bent the large ring into an oval shape. So, I think they are very safe.
I got mine from Wesspur, but they don't carry them anymore. You could make your own by screwing a long 1/4" bolt into a block of wood and cutting off the head of the bolt and grinding it smooth. Or you can simply clamp a piece of 1/4" rod in a vise and use that.
Hey Eric what is the maximum length that this method applies to for example if I were to make a 6ft friction saver would I still have to remove the whole core?
Good question. The maximum length of friction saver that I have done with this method is 58". For that length I cut a piece of rope that is 124" long, remove the core, and do a normal layout on both ends. The two tails will overlap perfectly, leaving just a few inches to cut off of each tail. I suppose you could do a longer one if you lengthened the measurements on the splice so that there was a longer bury with an appropriate overlap (at least 11") of the tapered cover strands inside the rope, but I have not tried that.
Your videos are awesome! I have made so many splices thanks to you! Are you able to make a video on splicing a 10mm Ocean Prussik eye to eye hitch cord? I am just waiting for you to put up a video on it before trying it myself!
I made some of those quite a few years ago. I will see if I can get to it before too long. My next post will be an eye to eye prusik in Tuefelberger HRC.
Nope. I started out about 15 years ago with the Samson Splicing manual and it just snowballed from there. Before long I had about half-a-dozen manuals and lots of splicing instructions that are published online by the rope manufacturers. And then I just kept practicing. I also learned a lot from the splicing forum on Treebuzz. There are lots of good splicers that hang out and trade splicing advice on Treebuzz, so that is a really good site to check out. The people on that site are always happy to give you advice and they are patient with beginners, which is nice. Although I generally stick to the rules when splicing, if I decide to experiment outside the box I usually send in samples and have them break-tested to make sure they are safe. Another benefit I have is that I work with a fairly large group of local climbers and student climbers and I splice rope for many of them, so that means I get to splice a lot of rope. And that is really the trick to learning how to splice -lots of repetition.
@@ericforsman7787 such a quick sleight of hand that I couldn't even see it happen! I felt the same way when I was taught to splice cable on a landing for a logging outfit. When everyone knew their job it was a very fast procedure.
Here is a table that tells you how much rope you need to make savers of different lengths: Cut rope to desired length, remove core strands, mark center, and do layout as follows. The layout marks are measured from the center of the rope: Saver Rope Layout Length Length Marks (in inches) 28” 78” 5.5-14-18 30” 82” 5.5-15-19 32” 84” 5.5-16-20 34” 86” 5.5-17-21 36” 82” 5.5-18-22 38” 88” 5.5-19-23 40” 96” 5.5-20-24 42” 100” 5.5-21-25 44” 104” 5.5-22-26 46” 108” 5.5-23-27 48” 110” 5.5-24-28 50” 116” 5.5-25-29
can this method be used with double braided ropes? i tried the class 1 double braid tight eye splice on friction (blue moon) saver but it's pretty tight and not that flexible with all that core.
Yes you can make ring and ring frictions savers from double-braid ropes. But for that you need to use double-braid eye splices and you need to make the friction saver long enough to accommodate two eye splices.
Hi David. It does slightly, but in a 16-strand rope about 75% of the strength is in the cover strands. And by pulling the tapered ends of the rope back through the space where the core used to be you maintain the diameter and strength of the rope. I had one of these break-tested in the basket hitch configuration and it broke at 11,169 pounds (50kN). So you don't have to worry about it breaking under normal working conditions.
The best place to get rings is from a reliable arborist supply store like Wesspur, Treestuff, or Bartlett's. If you check around you can probably find an arborist supply store near you.
It is a 42" long Toss wand. They work well for the first bury. But I always use the wire fid for the second bury because I can really jerk on it without worrying about breaking the noose on the Toss wand.
@@mikesoultanian8050 You can use the wire fid for both buries if you want. But I like to use the Toss Wand for the first bury because it is easier to use. I don't use the Toss Wand for the second bury because it will break the noose on the wand if you pull really hard on it.
The weave of the outer sheath naturally constricts as you pull on the rope. It’s kid of like Chinese hand cuffs if you know what those are. The length of rope inside that gets constricted by the outside is held so tightly with pressure that the rope it’s self will fail elsewhere before the inside will slip out.
It works however you want. There's lots of uses for these, and that's easily a subject for a separate video. This video explains how to build the tool.
Good luck on that. The rings cost about $6 each, 9 feet of rope is about $9 and even if they sold these, arborist supply houses would want about $25 per splice, which comes to a total of about $71 for a finished product. And then you would pay about $15 shipping, so delivered to your door it would cost you about $86.00. By doing it yourself you save at least $50.00. But that is really not the point for me. For me it is the pleasure of learning new skills and climbing on something that I made. But I can understand that not everybody wants to take the time to do that, so it is fine by me if you choose to pay somebody else to do the splicing.
There is a really good book called "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". If you have a chance, take a look at it. It might help you see why some of us are addicted to doing things ourselves instead of paying someone else to do it.
When the comment starts off with “LOL” that pretty much says it all. The day might come when you cant just buy things that take skillsets to make or no one around to do it for you.
Horrible! Your have thrown away the Core Strands!! This is far away oft any standard allowance. What about the total strenght oft this Part?? Never thumb up.
Based on your comment it is obvious to me that you have never spliced 16-strand rope. The standard way to splice 16-strand rope is to remove the core strands and fill the void by pulling the tapered cover strands back through the core. The strength of this friction saver is approximately 11,000 lbs in the basket hitch configuration. I suggest you check out some of the other instructional videos on how to splice 16-strand rope so you will begin to understand how it is done.
Gotta love it when the stupid rooster crows his ignorance for all to hear. The strength of 16-strand rope is ALL in the cover. The core strands are only to help it retain its shape.
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You make it look so easy. Fantastic and clear instructions, thank you
Thanks Mark.
Thank you Eric. I’ve been climbing on splices I’ve learned from you for a few years now!
Thank you. One of my favorite hobbies is splicing rope, so it is fun to do these videos.
Just finished making one of these thanks for your video clear instructions and good view of everything made it easy to follow along 🤙👍
You are most welcome!
I worked on a tuna boat in 83 and was introduced to Samson rope. Have learned to splice braided rope, but couldn’t remember the quick lesson I received on the great stuff. Very comprehensive video! Really impressed by your teaching. Maybe you have done a few? Insert chuckle. Thanks!
Thank you sir!
Hey Eric!
You did it perfect!
Wonderful pice of art!
And good instruction videoclip!
Thanks!
Okey, I have an question! Maybe someone allready has asked you:
But what it the Breaking Load in KN or Kilo, in this example?
and sugest of Working Load WL in KN or Kilo?
Best regards!
Excellent job and very clear explanation!
Thanks you sir!
Sincerely thank You for goog lesson, for your time, knowledges and skills that you share
You are welcome Irop!
Nice video. Easy to learn from. Where did you get the locking fid with locking snare wire. Thank you.
The Brion Toss Arborist's Splicing Wand is 42" long and can be ordered from Brion Toss Yacht Riggers in Port Townsend, WA. It costs $75.00. They make a variety of other sizes, so make sure you specify the 42" arborist's wand. But if you don't want to fork out that kind of money you can make do just fine with a wire fid.
You are skilled and make it look easy...I tried splicing 16 strand once and gave up after a few hrs...I can do double braid, hollow braid and three strand, but 16 strand is beyond me. THanks for the demo!
It took me 4 hours to realize how to splice 24 strand piece, everything is possible mate
I have a question. This friction saver has no core strand correct? It’s on the the out side of the rope that you make this friction savor with? I want to know exactly how it’s done so o can try to make my own. Great demonstration thank you! Please let me know!
You are correct. With a 16-strand rope about 75% of the strength is in the cover strands. By replacing the original core strands with the tapered cover strands you retain the shape of the rope as well as most of the original strength.
nice. I just used some 1" hallow tube webbing over lapped it and sew it all together for a ring and ring. I do like the rope style.
Yes, that works too! But I just like to splice rope, so it is fun to make them with rope as well.
Are those cutting pliers you used still made? I like the idea of a cutter that uses box cutter blades, but when I google search I can't seem to find them. Could you point me to a link that has them or maybe a special name I should search for?
There are a couple of choices. Mine are Craftsman 9-37309 Utility Cutters. I got mine at a hardware store, but I think you might also find them at Walmart under the name "Ronan" cutters. They cost about $45.00. The other alternative is the Stein Razor Rope Cutter, which is available from Treestuff for $36.99. In both cases you want to be sure to buy carbide cutter blades. They cut much better than standard steel blades.
I recently had someone ask about the breaking strength of one these friction savers. I had one break-tested in the basket hitch configuration and it broke at 11, 169 pounds.
That's pretty strong! Over double the strength of carabiners - I think I'll be making one of these :)
49.6822 kN.... nice!
I see this was over a year ago when you had this break tested, but where do you send your splices/equipment to see if they're safe enough to climb with and use as life support?
I usually send samples to "Splicing Break Test Service" at Treestuff. It is expensive, but they do a good job and send you a printout of the results, plus they return the sample to you so you can see how it broke.
@@gelosmelo
@@ericforsman7787 ah, excellent. Thanks!
Is it better or worse to use a hot knife to cut this? If it is not necessary can you please explain why? Great videos. Thank you so much.
You don't want to use a hot knife because that will fuse the ends of the strands together. The strands need to be separated so you can pull them out when you do the taper.
Is it just kind of a stretch friction principal that keeps the inner strands from pulling out when under tension??
Yes, exactly. That is why it is important to taper and overlap the tails inside the cover.
Could this method possibly be used with a different 16 or 24 strand rope? Could maybe blue moon or velocity be used?
It will work for other 16-strand ropes. You can use double-braid ropes like blue moon and velocity for friction savers, but you have to use double-braid splices instead of 16-strand splices. Those splices are not difficult, but are completely different than 16-strand splices.
The core strands that was removed first ...could they be used for whiping thine or lock stiching ?
The core strands are very loosely woven and are too big and heavy to use for whipping and lock-stitching. What you want is waxed whipping twine. It holds its shape better and is easy to thread on a needle. For Arbormaster rope I like the #8 whipping twine by Marlow or Robline.
Nice work Eric 👍🏻🇨🇦🇺🇸
Thanks Phil. These things are fun to make!
Very good, but have you done test with it ? How much ABS ?
Good question Ricardo. A few years ago I made one that was 28" long and had it break-tested in the basket hitch configuration. It broke at 11, 169 lbs. Before the rope finally broke it bent the large ring into an oval shape. So, I think they are very safe.
Great video. Where can I get the "cleat" you use? The vertical pin with four screw holes attached to the block in the vise.👍
I got mine from Wesspur, but they don't carry them anymore. You could make your own by screwing a long 1/4" bolt into a block of wood and cutting off the head of the bolt and grinding it smooth. Or you can simply clamp a piece of 1/4" rod in a vise and use that.
@@ericforsman7787 thanks. I will get creative.
24:28 was like a magic trick, very satisficing
Hey Eric what is the maximum length that this method applies to for example if I were to make a 6ft friction saver would I still have to remove the whole core?
Good question. The maximum length of friction saver that I have done with this method is 58". For that length I cut a piece of rope that is 124" long, remove the core, and do a normal layout on both ends. The two tails will overlap perfectly, leaving just a few inches to cut off of each tail. I suppose you could do a longer one if you lengthened the measurements on the splice so that there was a longer bury with an appropriate overlap (at least 11") of the tapered cover strands inside the rope, but I have not tried that.
Your videos are awesome! I have made so many splices thanks to you! Are you able to make a video on splicing a 10mm Ocean Prussik eye to eye hitch cord? I am just waiting for you to put up a video on it before trying it myself!
I made some of those quite a few years ago. I will see if I can get to it before too long. My next post will be an eye to eye prusik in Tuefelberger HRC.
@@ericforsman7787 awesome! I will order some of that to be ready to follow along! When do you forsee that coming out?
You have a skill that I wouldn't feel conficent doing or trust on my first attempt. Did you work in a rope shop?
Nope. I started out about 15 years ago with the Samson Splicing manual and it just snowballed from there. Before long I had about half-a-dozen manuals and lots of splicing instructions that are published online by the rope manufacturers. And then I just kept practicing. I also learned a lot from the splicing forum on Treebuzz. There are lots of good splicers that hang out and trade splicing advice on Treebuzz, so that is a really good site to check out. The people on that site are always happy to give you advice and they are patient with beginners, which is nice. Although I generally stick to the rules when splicing, if I decide to experiment outside the box I usually send in samples and have them break-tested to make sure they are safe. Another benefit I have is that I work with a fairly large group of local climbers and student climbers and I splice rope for many of them, so that means I get to splice a lot of rope. And that is really the trick to learning how to splice -lots of repetition.
I've never seen rope splicing done before and I was so confused as to how you were going to get the core strands back in there!😅
It is magic!
@@ericforsman7787 such a quick sleight of hand that I couldn't even see it happen! I felt the same way when I was taught to splice cable on a landing for a logging outfit. When everyone knew their job it was a very fast procedure.
How do you know how much rope is needed when making a friction saver?
Here is a table that tells you how much rope you need to make savers of different lengths:
Cut rope to desired length, remove core strands, mark center, and do layout as follows. The
layout marks are measured from the center of the rope:
Saver Rope Layout
Length Length Marks (in inches)
28” 78” 5.5-14-18
30” 82” 5.5-15-19
32” 84” 5.5-16-20
34” 86” 5.5-17-21
36” 82” 5.5-18-22
38” 88” 5.5-19-23
40” 96” 5.5-20-24
42” 100” 5.5-21-25
44” 104” 5.5-22-26
46” 108” 5.5-23-27
48” 110” 5.5-24-28
50” 116” 5.5-25-29
Amazing work!
Thanks!
can this method be used with double braided ropes? i tried the class 1 double braid tight eye splice on friction (blue moon) saver but it's pretty tight and not that flexible with all that core.
Yes you can make ring and ring frictions savers from double-braid ropes. But for that you need to use double-braid eye splices and you need to make the friction saver long enough to accommodate two eye splices.
Great video
Thanks!
Out of curiosity, are there certain overlap requirements let's say if I wanted to make a longer or shorter friction saver?
I have made these in various lengths ranging from 29-60" and have never seen one slip. I always try to overlap the tails by at least 11".
great video thanks
Thank you!
How strong is the friction saver?? Thanks
I had one tested in the basket hitch configuration and it broke at 11,169 pounds.
Thank you for sharing
You are welcome!
Nice work
Thanks Oliviero!
Nice work👌👌👌
very nice
Thanks!
You remove the core. Doesn't this reduce the strength of the rope?
Hi David. It does slightly, but in a 16-strand rope about 75% of the strength is in the cover strands. And by pulling the tapered ends of the rope back through the space where the core used to be you maintain the diameter and strength of the rope. I had one of these break-tested in the basket hitch configuration and it broke at 11,169 pounds (50kN). So you don't have to worry about it breaking under normal working conditions.
Where can we buy rings in the video?
The best place to get rings is from a reliable arborist supply store like Wesspur, Treestuff, or Bartlett's. If you check around you can probably find an arborist supply store near you.
What size is the wand?
It is a 42" long Toss wand. They work well for the first bury. But I always use the wire fid for the second bury because I can really jerk on it without worrying about breaking the noose on the Toss wand.
@@ericforsman7787 Is there a reason you don't use the fid for both of the buries?
@@mikesoultanian8050 You can use the wire fid for both buries if you want. But I like to use the Toss Wand for the first bury because it is easier to use. I don't use the Toss Wand for the second bury because it will break the noose on the wand if you pull really hard on it.
@@ericforsman7787 very cool - thanks for the info!!
Anyone that know the "Breaking Load in KN" in this example of builded frictionsaver with Samson Arbormaster Rope?
I had one sample tested in the basket-hitch configuration. It broke at 11,169 lbs, which is approximately 49 kN.
If we assume that the working load limit (WLL) is about 10% of breaking strength that would be 1,116 lbs or 506 kg.
What size are the rings🎃
With ISC rings I use the small (27mm) and large (45mm) sizes. Other manufacturers make similar sizes.
show man!!
Put the ring in the loop
Yep. Don't forget!
I don’t understand what keeps the internal rope from just pulling out when you’re finished??
The weave of the outer sheath naturally constricts as you pull on the rope. It’s kid of like Chinese hand cuffs if you know what those are. The length of rope inside that gets constricted by the outside is held so tightly with pressure that the rope it’s self will fail elsewhere before the inside will slip out.
🥰👌👍
Your explanation leaves a lot to be desired.
I have no idea how it's supposed to work.
It works however you want. There's lots of uses for these, and that's easily a subject for a separate video. This video explains how to build the tool.
ooooor you can pay $5.00 to have one made for you
Good luck on that. The rings cost about $6 each, 9 feet of rope is about $9 and even if they sold these, arborist supply houses would want about $25 per splice, which comes to a total of about $71 for a finished product. And then you would pay about $15 shipping, so delivered to your door it would cost you about $86.00. By doing it yourself you save at least $50.00. But that is really not the point for me. For me it is the pleasure of learning new skills and climbing on something that I made. But I can understand that not everybody wants to take the time to do that, so it is fine by me if you choose to pay somebody else to do the splicing.
Lol spend $200 in the tools you will need or $25 and by one.
If that is your choice, have at it!
There is a really good book called "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". If you have a chance, take a look at it. It might help you see why some of us are addicted to doing things ourselves instead of paying someone else to do it.
When the comment starts off with “LOL” that pretty much says it all. The day might come when you cant just buy things that take skillsets to make or no one around to do it for you.
Horrible!
Your have thrown away the Core Strands!!
This is far away oft any standard allowance. What about the total strenght oft this Part?? Never thumb up.
Based on your comment it is obvious to me that you have never spliced 16-strand rope. The standard way to splice 16-strand rope is to remove the core strands and fill the void by pulling the tapered cover strands back through the core. The strength of this friction saver is approximately 11,000 lbs in the basket hitch configuration. I suggest you check out some of the other instructional videos on how to splice 16-strand rope so you will begin to understand how it is done.
Gotta love it when the stupid rooster crows his ignorance for all to hear. The strength of 16-strand rope is ALL in the cover. The core strands are only to help it retain its shape.
Nice work
Thanks Lee.