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Does Genshin Impact actually NEED to give us GOOD REPRESENTATION? [Pre-Natlan Release]
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- Опубликовано: 17 авг 2024
- Teyvat is a world with only seven nations but it speaks to players from nearly every single continent through its ground-breaking fantasy aesthetic that draws from real life inspiration. But does that mean that Genshin Impact is REQUIRED to present these cultures accurately.
If you enjoyed this in depth discussion of representation in Genshin Impact, you'll likely find my other content interesting so why not subscribe to my channel so you can catch more analysis videos like this one. You can share this with your friends if they have been thinking about this issue too!
If you want to have a chat with me, you can also reach out to me through twitter @purpletarobirb ( / purpletarobirb !
The music used is from Genshin Impact's OST from the Natlan Preview Teaser - Saurian Wanderings!
Some online sources used in this video:
www.worldhisto...
salimaskitchen...
x.com/Boram76
Bonus links related to Palestine:
decolonizepale...
arab.org/click...
Time stamps
0:00 Intro
1:39 Worldbuilding rules
8:40 Immersion
12:43 Artistic integrity
16:55 Representation = pretty!
18:46 Feel good vibes
21:12 So...how do you feel?
![[4.8] What Simulanka Tells Us About Natlan - A Genshin Impact Theory](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vqBUhfArTOs/mqdefault.jpg)
![[4.8] What Simulanka Tells Us About Natlan - A Genshin Impact Theory](/img/tr.png)
Hello everyone! Before you proceed to type in the comments section, PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL TOWARDS OTHERS IN THE COMMENTS and practice cultural sensitivity!
If there are any inaccurate statements in my video, please feel free to point them out calmly. I tend to avoid reading comments but I shall request some friends of mine to summarize certain points if necessary. To support the exchange of knowledge, I encourage you to LIKE INFORMATIVE POSTS to push them to the top. As I said, I could have some wrong mental images about some cultures as well so debunking misconceptions is necessary.
Also, while I am complaining a lot about Natlan currently, information released in the near future might prove me wrong and that's okay. Regardless, the message of the video has more general applications and the concerns raised as of the moment are based on how some of my online friends from Central + South America and Africa are feeling right now.
Also, here are some sources I used in the video. I don't really like looking at wikipedia so I tried to find stuff elsewhere so here you go:
www.worldhistory.org/Kahina/
salimaskitchen.com/chicken-tajine/
x.com/Boram76
Thank you for watching and I hope Natlan does better soon!
P.S. I used Haitham's going mad clip to reflect how bad the breaks in immersion can feel and I also used the interdarshan championship clip towards the end to reflect the fandom discord surrounding the topic. Hope you found that amusing!
@@tarobirb4943 from Genshin Impact Support Reply from Twitter.
Dear Customer,
The game is a WORK OF FICTION and does not represent Real Cultures, People or Events.
😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
😊
if Natlan is native american, they should not be black, as native american are asian who migrated to america during the ice age 10000 years ago. the genetic gap between turk and asian are 50000 years, so they are even more asian, than turks are... why do people assume the native are black? it really because of a false myth that the native bow to the white man of europe and that is how white man conquered america, but that is a lie, the native did not look any darker than the "white" european, they lost their independence from guns and disease. there is this revisionism happening that tries to turn everyone into "people of color" when those people historically have never seen themselves as "dark", that is a label imposed upon them without their permission.
and why this is so is because of hollywood. think back of all the "indian" character you see in movies... how many of them are played by african american? this "darkening" is really a job program where the african american lobby to be given minority roles at the expense of other minorities. it doesn't really help increase representation, it just subsitution one for another. i too didn't realise this in the past, and i used to be a big supporter for DEI, because asian need representation. but what has happen in the film and game industry is instead of there being more diversity, we see character just being replace with african american figure, diversity has actually deceased after DEI...
I still do support more representation, however the idea that representation is about dark skin is a lie that need to be killed. it is as stupid as someone demanding that the japanese character all be yellow skin... representation is about cultural respect. for example why assassin creed is getting so much hate with a 1:10 dislike ratio is not because the main character is black, it because he would not be a samurai, a samurai is a petty noble, and a petty noble don't go around killing peasant and beheading them to hiphop music. this careless treatment of culture where they put object that should be in a temple to be respected out in the street, and turn samurai from a gentrified warrior into a street thug is way more problematic.
which bring to the point on the only complain I found concerning in natlan which is the accusation that the character are named after african god. if that is the case then it is problematic, however there is still no solid proof as name can sound smiliar, but this is something that has to be revisited when the character are release and we can compare it lore.
No, i don't think i will
As someone who's native american, and specifically of Nahua, or "Aztec", descent, just thought i'd give my own two cents on the situation. I can't comment of the portrayal of the Yoruba people, however, since that is not my place to comment on. On one hand, i wish we'd gotten more characters with darker skin, and it's absolutely valid, and justified to be upset over this. It is kinda absurd, as you said, to see white characters in a land that's suppossed to be mostly pre-hispanic mesoamerica. On the other hand, as I saw the natlan trailer, i breathed an audible sigh of relief for a couple of reasons. 1. Mesoamerican characters weren't portrayed as primitive, bloodthirsty lunatics, like Aztecs and other natives have been historically stereotyped as. 2. No one had redish skin, which was unfortunately the case for native characters in other gacha games like FGO 3. The lack of feathers, and feather headdresses 4, Real nahuatl names like Citlali, rather than modern latino / hispanic names, which shows that the developers at least understand the difference between hispanic people, and the indigenous people of mesoamerica, which are often lumped together as one group, especially in american media And the possibility that natlan's wars are actually a ball game, is not only a welcome reference to mesoamerican ball games, but also a nice subversion of our expectations for a culture that has been often oversimplified to warfare and human sacrifice. Furthermore, details like the sun motifs, and the theme of rebirth are welcome references to aztec mythology that i was happy to see. Sorry for the disorganized rambles, i just haven't seen many positive comments about natlan, and while i agree 100% with your video, i also believe that there's definitely something here to be happy about, although not much to be fair. Maybe my expectations were just really low, the bar is basically on the floor after all. Hopefully natlan ends up better once its actually released
@@AurekProductions This is good tho omg thank you so much!
Hyv writers have been consistently better than its character designers hahaha
honestly comments like yours are breeze of fresh air amidst all the negative comments. Yes while people being upset of lack of colors on the skin color spectrum is valid, it by no means is not justifiable to completely overlook whats good about the rest. Infact i cannot stress enough to people that their touch with reality is sooo twisted that i am seeing complaints like
1- "Why are there no flames, lava in land of fire and war? Why is there green grass and forests?"
2- "Why are characters so colorful and cheerful? where is blood? where is "war"? Why is there graffiti and nice music?'
3- "Why are there ships? modern machines?"
Like..bruh. Its like wtf do they think "war" is, what do they think "tribal" means? I am more triggered by the fact that how so many people have no idea how the tribal folks live..and there isnt just one "tribe" in the world. Why were they assuming it to be a sad desolate land? People live there, ofcourse there would be plants, water and grass for them to survive. Not all tribes live in deserrts and arid regions. They have rich culture, ofcours there will be color, sports and festivities. Ofcourse they have connections to the outside world, they arent some backwater people..they are aware of technology and artforms like graffiti. They just choose to integrate tech in a way that also allows them to represent their culture.
The world designers and the culture researchers consistently do a GREAT job imo, its just the people who have a hand in character design specifically seem to make choices heavily weighted towards light-skinned beauty standards. I understand much of the world follows this beauty standard, but when specifically inspired by cultures who are known to have a population of largely darker-skinned characters, i feel like not having even ONE in a slew of like 8 new characters feels kinda disingenuous to me
@@Ethan-yd4gn True. The differences between the world building and character design make the pale skin feel even more blatantly racist by comparison. Like, they could be doing so much better, they just explicitly chose not to.
@@apoorvjoshi2383 In all fairness about the war, Neuvillette was the one who said that war ravages Natlan. Which kind of implies that it is a war-torn region. But some NPCs didn't mention any of this.
Correction. Religion in Teyvat can be seen as Monolatry.
Aka. Recognizing the existence of Multiple gods (Like Others Archons) but consistent Worship of only one Archon.
tecnically the real world is now in this situation
I was thinking the same thing. They're henotheistic not monotheistic
Yes
@@eleemaeli1830 not really. Nowadays we acknowledge different religions and beliefs, but that doesn’t mean we believe them ourselves.
Thanks for the correction! I didn't know the word for it omg
I kinda want to provide my perspective on certain arguments I've seen online. colorism is a pretty large issue in Latino and black communities both. lighter skin black/Latino folk are usually perceived as more attractive and marketable then darker skin ones so we have a certain level of privilege. so it's a slightly irritating when someone askes for darker skin tones and someone just replies with " well what about lighter skin Latinos or light skin black people" like trust me, we know, we're the only one's that seem to exist half the time, especially in a game like genshin
i think a lot of people are advocating for variety rather then "erasure"?(I'm not sure if erasure is the right word to use here) so if we agree there should be a variety of skin tones then we don't need to state the obvious. that being said I've seen many people dissect the designs already and they all have many aspects of different cultures and don't seem to be inherently racist (form what i know so far) so there is something to appreciate and like about them at least, but melanin would definitely improve them,. (especially when there you notice how their tattoos light up when they do there skills but they're barely visible cause it blends in with there skin which wouldn't be a problem if they were darker omg💀) there could end up being a variety of skin tones but judging by the teaser.....it's looking grim but that's just how i feel. feel free to drag me if you feel like I'm just spouting bs.
@@redfuchsia NO DRAGGING BECAUSE YOU SLAYED 👏 👏👏
Yeah if ppl want variety then there can be 1-2 light skinned ones and the rest being tan to dark!
And yeah I have heard about the colorism so thank you for corroborating this. We also have that in the Philippines sadly...
Okay so I'm one of the lighter scale Mexicans ( I cannot speak for other latin American countries but México Is pretty involved for the inspiration of natlan) , 99% of the Mexican population are not paper white blonde with blue eyes. It is rare to see a Latino like that. Yes a lot of us have light skin but we still have non European features. Salma Hayek, Peso pluma, Selena , Becky g, Natanael cano (some of the Mexican famous ppl that I think a lot of non Mexican people are familiar with) are an accurate representation of how light skin people in Mexico look like... Not quite what genshin is tryna portray here
The fact I MYSELF don't feel represented at all by the characters in natlan, none of them have my features at all consider a lot of people call me whitexican says volumes 😂 i think it's sad I understand asian audiences are colorists sometimes but come on it's like they want our culture but don't want us. It's giving those people who eat at Mexican restaurants but complain about seeing Mexican people in the streets 😭 if you don't want to play characters who look like Mexicans then just don't make a country based of México in the first place.
The only thing I don’t like is the fact the enemies looks more fleshed out compared to the in game characters. Not only that, the characters proportions are already crazy like the knees in the tall male base…
Because the enemies aren’t playable. They’re just going to make the playable characters more intriguing for the Asian community, because most of there money comes from china, Japan, etc. There money isn’t coming from western places.
my biggest frustration is that the only black/brown skin we ever see in game is on enemy NPC’s.
even the friendly NPC’s typically have a lighter wash on whatever skin tone that’s being conveyed… it just doesn’t feel nice especially after going through all these nations and seeing all these other cultures get representation, it feels like a slap in the face.
on the contrary, who knows, maybe Natlan* does have black/brown/latino people. we just haven’t seen yet cause it’s not released.
[ edit: autocorrect had changed Natlan to Nathan ]
EXACTLY! I want to play some of those NPCs and to see them and fight them as enemies feels HORRIBLE.
This exactly. I actually don't mind having diversity for people of a region having different skintones. But when the diversity isn't even 100% representative of the culture they're based off beyond a name and a clothing and most of them being pale-skinned , I think we're allowed to be disappointed, especially, since like in the video was said, you kind of expect this game to have accuracy if they're going to base their nations off real cultures and countries.
funny how u only focus on like 20 dark skinned enemies ignoring the fact that 90% of the enemies in teyvat are literaly white skinned: fatui, treasure horders, the samurais... this is tad hypocritical that u focus on 1% of dark enemies just cuz they have darker skin. culutral representation is way more important dont u think? that having skin color without any good lore.. especilly places like sumeru and natlan becuz irl media always depict those places like poor, egly full of crime countries.
we do have dark skinned characters, u all just dont like them becuz they are not your faves
@@miiinkus Agreed with this! It's so disappointing. I suppose it's because the designers for the npcs have more freedom on what to do hmmm idk
This is not an actual solution but an interesting thing I found out earlier was that you can change the brightness settings and some tan skinned characters have a darker skin tone that looks sorta nice (?) idk I have yet to try it out
What about Dehya, Cyno, Sethos, Candace
I’ve never expected Genshin to provide a super diverse cast of characters seeing as they want their Chinese demographic to pull for their characters. But I’d be in totally denial if I said I wasn’t disappointed that they didn’t take this opportunity to experiment with darker skin tones and different hair textures. (I’m mixed Oreo style btw)
I bet you're also double stuffed.
@@fundamental7366 idk how to take that comment 😀?
@@fundamental7366 Ew wtf 💀
@@fundamental7366
What does that means bro?
@@Jzshssjjwjsjw it's a sexual joke you don't wanna know the rest
this is just my opinion and I dont want anyone to think that they should think like me, I am brazilian-japanese (my dad is white and my mom is asian) and I quite like the designs showed, I can see lots of things on both the characters and the environment that reminds me of things I see in brazil since I was little, with that being said, I also think that mihoyo should try to make characters with more diverse skintones, I myself never really look for representation in any media because well, I am not really easy to representate, it is not every day you can find a green-eyed latina with german and east-asian descent all at the same time (I guess I can kind of claim thoma lmao), but growing up in a country where people of all colors were around me at all times I kinda just expect that to be how it is if my culture would be depicted in media, there are white latinos? yes absolutely, but there's also black, asian and indigenous latinos, and they too deserve to see themselves in the game
THIS thank you!
I am Latino but was raised in the Middle East. I was definitely impacted by both Sumeru and currently Natlan's representation (or lack thereof) and incredibly disappointed. My expectations were none and I am saddened because of exactly that. My expectations were none and none were subdued.
Fellow Brazilian here! I agree with you. It’s a bit upsetting that the only representation of diverse skin tones we have is the enemies. Some of these characters show in the trailer would’ve looked even more amazing with a skin tone that wasn’t a light tan or just a pale skin tone.
I think it's kind of a mixed bag. On one hand, I think Hoyo does a pretty good job with translating real world inspirations into Teyvat, as well as depicting the differences, stories, and history of each individual nation. I can also understand why people would want characters that look closer to the people of those real world inspirations too. For the three Natlan characters shown, they do remind me of some of my Hispanic/Latin friends that I had growing up. Could they be a little darker? Sure, but I don't think the amount of melanin a fictional character has is indicative of their personality or culture.
I can't say that there's any character in this game that is completely representative of me, but that doesn't and shouldn't stop me from resonating with any of them as well.
100% agree to this. looking at the entire picture, its clear that hoyoverse puts in the effort to mirror the cultures they take inspiration from; we can see it on the ambience, the npcs, the music, the accesories in the character design, everything. i suppose they sadly have to sacrifice diversity to get more profit out of their gacha game, because we know how racist and conservative society (not only china) can get. i wish we got playable characters with darker skin tone (far darker than xianyun or sethos), but i dont mind it too much myself
@@tomatuteee it's probably better not to take gacha games too seriously. In terms of diversity, I don't think Genshin is too bad. Like recently with Fontaine, the devs have shown that they aren't afraid to show stories that tackle racism as a subject and they expanded the Sumeru crew with Sethos. The Natlan character from the chapter trailer has a darker tone as well. Meanwhile, HSR only has Arlan as of 2.3. Now there is a possibility that Hoyo has to adhere to some "expectations" but I wouldn't think that it's done with malice. I think if they could have gotten away with it, they probably wouldn't mind adding some tones to the palette. But that's just my perspective, who really knows how much oversight Hoyo has to deal with (whether internally or externally)
Girl, so well researched! Good job
they do great job with cultural representaions especilly since we all know that westren media that supposed to be inclusive always make the worse rep possible for places like middles east (sumeru) and natlan (mexico),,, while genshin focuses on how actully those countries look like and feel (sure there is crime and stuff but not how american media and games make it seem)
thats why skin color is the worst representation that people can ask for: becuz, yeh sure say they gonna put some melanin on characters and thats it? would it satiafy people even if the lore would be bad and the cultural representaiotn would be like that the westren media make of those places? i dont think so. i was so happy to see how they represented the middle east with sumeru i could care less about skin color, becuz what shows the type of ppl we are is not our skin color but our cultures\food\music and such
@@yukichan177 now that's an interesting perspective. In a sense, this topic can only ever be skin deep. Like looking at the recent Natlan teaser and some online theories, the nation doesn't seem limited to Mesoamerica, but various parts of the Ring of Fire (i.e. Hawaii with Mualani). I think there'll be a ton to take in from every character and tribe within Natlan!
The first thing foreigners need to know about latinos is that we aren't a single skin colour, there's an entire pallet and one person being darker or lighter than other doesn't makes them any less latino.
The little things shown so far are actually really accurate, the way 3 characters dress is similar enough to what people wear. The street fashion dendro boy has is like something a guy could be wearing and what the hydro girl has is a very respectful stylisation of clothes common to the Amazon area.
The vision case is based off a representation of the sun (apparently la piedra del sol from Aztecs) and most importantly there's some areas with graffiti.
Even the fact that Natlan is divided into 6 tribes resembles ancient latinoamerica, this patch looks to be based off mostly Central America and the cultures from that area. While the theme of war seems (to me) based on the South, Incas were in a constant war for more territory as an empire.
Hoyoverse has been secretive about this region for years but the little that was known and was recently teased is already more work and care any other major company put in representing our culture.
The Kuzco movie is very funny and I'm glad it made llamas popular outside because they're a very awesome animal but why the hell does the mariachi hat scene exist? They're fun too but they have nothing to do with the location the movie is aet in.
ESO, DILO MAS ALTO. SHUT UP GRINGO 😭
Thank you about the skin color comment!
I do know that there are various types of latinos. I am friends with a half German Dominican online and they do describe themselves as very fair looking. I think I was just talking about an expectation of a precolonial setting but as I said, wrong mental images may also be an issue so thanks for your input!
The problem is is that they aren't nessarily based off of modern latin countries, they're based off of Meso/Native civilizations -cultures that to this day are looked down on and pushed back against by those same latin countries. So the fact that the playable characters are pale while the human enemies are the dark ones is also a huge problem. It's like white actors playing native american roles.
There are also Polynesian and West African tribes thrown in the mix, with the Archon herself having a Maori name. So no, it's not just post-colonial latin america.
@@AEtherArtsexactly, I think people want this so bad to be a Latino based nation and Natlan may very well base some elements on modern Latino cultures, but it seems to be mainly based on Mesoamericans and Andeans, not Latinos
@@Doctor.TC.but they can also modernize those aspect. There are plenty of ways to takes aspects of ancient cultures and modernize either through their own spin on the clothing and activities. Like for instance (i forgot the name) but that sport shown in the movie el dorado was a real sport played in those times. Genshin can take that inspiration and change it for Genshin. Maybe characters fly while doing so combine it a bit with quidditch but remove the boy. The boy was flying so there r grounds for it
i am the whitest white person as possible. like I'm from the southern United States and even I can tell that genshin needs more diversity in its skin color, hair types etc. I feel like if hoyo is going to profit off using these cultures in their games they should try to represent them the best they can.
edit: please stop arguing in my replies about whether it's racist or colorist or wrong for them to be doing this. because simply put I don't wanna hear any of this hoyo white knight "it's fictional" bullshit. if you don't agree or don't care that's alright (unless you're being fucking racist abt it and some of you are) but don't put people who do care and want hoyo to change down and argue with them. you aren't doing anything to make them change their minds you're just being annoying. thank you.
They dont. It's their game their creative Process. You are free to not pay them. And they are free to decide HOW to make thieir game.
@@silverhawkscape2677 then dont use that specific culture. Funny how they can pick and choose what is and is not worth representing.
@@silverhawkscape2677 it doesn't matter if it's a free game, they use these cultures and profit off of it with game rewards, people who do spend and sponsorships/collaboratios. they should represent the people from these cultures the best they can.
@silverhawkscape2677 Their game, their creative process, while including other cultures thats not THEIRS into their "creative process."
Absolute donkey 🫏 🤣😂😂
@@silverhawkscape2677and we're free to criticise them for it
I think if you're going to make a character a certain way then it should show in their design meaning if a character spends all their time out in the harsh sun then they should have a tan that shows that. It's simple character design 101 a character's WHOLE design should show their personality at a simple glance, an unique face and story can only do so much.
EXACTLY.
most people dont get any tan even if they spend most time in the sun: look at persian people, they white skinned but they are not of europian races.. live in the hottest places and always in the sun, but they still stay white... u realy think that skin color & cloths is what will show characters whole personality?? heck no, culture and story is what shows the whole package xD
@@cofeespear4992 I agree a bit but there are also some ppl irl who are undeniably tan to dark skinned but stay cooped up at home hahaha
As a Native person (non-Central or South American), it's really typical. For ALL Fantasy stories taking flavours from Indigenous Americans. To take what they want, and make the people pale skinned or more like those who came here to colonize us.
Another example, is Fate Grand Order. Where one of the major Aztec/Mayan/Yutacan Indigenous Gods. Is a busty blond white woman
Nothing wrong with that. Tbh. Fate can do what it likes
But pre-contact, there were no blonds or people with blue or green eyes. At least wide spreadily
So for me. It was another sigh and "oh well", because none of these foreign writers or creators can do any Indigenous People's of the America's justice.
And as an FYI, for people who are asking. Both North and South America DO have a lot of admixture with non-Indigenous groups in the modern day.
And we shouldn't feel any shame for that admixture 😅😅😅
But yeaaaaaaah
As an example. In FFXVs movie, the vaguely western European looking ethnic group from Eastern Lucis (the Kingdom) worship Quetzocoatl. Which is a MesoAmerican icon and God...
But they're not in anyway Indigenous looking or meant to BE Indigenous Yutacan. The brief "blink and you miss it", reeeeeaaaalllllly yanked my mother from the movie, because she's spent years with Mayans and other Indigenous Peoples of the Yutacan.
So she was like; "they look Norse-ish. Why are they worshipping Quetzocoatl?", and couldn't let it go 😂
@@colleennewholy9026 Fate/GO is a bad example I fear, in their lore the meso-american gods seem to be alien parasites and their physical appearance just a host...
@-nery- bro I know. But it's still very jarring 😆 . It's also genuinely just a copout "it's an alien parasite. It doesn't need to be realistic" or whatevs
@@colleennewholy9026 native person? If you're perhaps Polynesian then maybe you now have more of a say in speaking about some natlan characters like mualani and mavuika
And yes omg it does seem like a bad trend all across the board huh :")))
@tarobirb4943 Native American from the USA. Lol
We don't use First Nations like the Canadians
My People are the Oglala Lakota, of Crazy Horse fame
I unfortunately cannot speak to most of the cultures Natlan has brought forward
I simply wished to give my perspective, on how "normal" it is for Indigenous American Cultures to be white washed/Europeanized. Even by other non-European cultures
I know I don't really have the right to speak on this, since it's not my culture, but Genshin has made me want to learn more and more about other cultures. Not that I wasn't interested before, but to me, Genshin has always been a big advocate for finding the beauty in our own world.
Natlan looks beautiful and vibrant, and it already makes me want to learn more. It's a fantasy world with real life inspirations, and as someone who is very interested in learning the 'why' of things, it makes me want to learn about where this inspiration comes from and what those mirrors are.
That being said, I do think that more skin color diversity would be wonderful, but I also know that Hoyo has gotten in trouble in the past for having things like feminine looking guys and so on. I can only imagine what hell they'd unleash if they had characters with darker skin. It's awful that it's like that, but at the same time, I think I understand the fine line they're trying to walk.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that Hoyo is racist, since characters like Arlan from Star Rail exist. I think that they're just trying to be careful.
That, and these are only three characters. I'm hoping like everyone else that we get more skin color diversity.
Again, I have no real right to speak on this since I'm white and also not Latino.
I hope that people can get the diversity they want and deserve, but if that doesn't come to pass... Well, at least I've seen some excellent fanart.
I'm still excited for Natlan, and while it does make me somewhat upset to see people leaving the game, I absolutely don't blame them. They have the right to do as they wish.
I hope everyone can remain civil and that people can enjoy the game or leave it freely. Much love to the wonderful communities that Natlan takes inspiration from! Your culture is beautiful, and I can't wait to learn more about it.
I'm sorry if anything I said came off as rude or offensive. I don't think it did, but if anything could be worded better or clarified, I'm open to hear about it!
Looking at all the designs from the game's release to now, a simple glance says all. It's like they are trying to avoid making characters dark past a certain threshold (unless they are enemies). The issue isn't that lighter characters exist in the cast of Natlan, it is that a region based on Latin American, Polynesian, and African culture has a cast that is almost entirely light-skinned. Something about the intentions is off.
both the chapter character for sumeru and natlan were of darker skin. I would argue it was never the plan to have few dark skin character. it was how the toxic woke reacted to Xinyan that cause them to reduce the number of darker character. when the shitstorm happen with her I already predicted that genshin would reduce the number of dark character. because if the community just shit on the designers and have a bunch of BS restriction on what a dark character should be, than the rational and logical decision is just not to make them. if I was the director, I won't let my designer work on something that only result in them getting more abuse. it just simply logic.
@@lagrangewei What "toxic" reaction are you referring to with Xinyan? From what I recall back when she came out some people simply interpreted her as black (which isn't really unfair given she was literally one of two brown characters _in_ the game at that time and we don't have strict confirmation of if she's even from Liyue or what her parents look like or where they're from). And then some people chimed in and suggested she's probably more-so analogous to darker-skinned Asian people. And that was that.
Or are you referring to how people were pointing out how in the lore people sometimes see her as being "imposing" or "scary" and some people attributed it to her skin color even though it might more-so be from her "sharp gaze" and style? I don't remember that commotion even being so big as to be noticeable by HoYo.
But who knows, maybe it was. I could imagine them shirking from making darker skinned character out of fear of backlash of doing it in a way that gets interpreted as "wrong." But that's not the most valid excuse ever either. They still continue to draw from regions/cultures filled with darker skinned people, and they're still getting admonished for the designs, arguably more than they would if they'd simply made more brown/black characters.
As someone who is a light skinned Latino, it just feel embarrassing when someone who is a white/fair skinned Latino says “oh it’s ok bc white Latinos exist also” when the REASON we exist in the first place is because of colonialism. Yes we exist but we are far from the only ones and there weren’t people that looked like us in the Americas before colonization. It’s just so off putting to see. I’m loosing hope, but I hope the remaining characters will have wayyy more melanin and even black (ethnic) hair
They won't. Accept the fact this is a CN game made by a CN Company catered to CN taste. Why do you think Dehya is lighter skinned in her CN art and other official CN art? Why do you think all the Darker skinned characters are still fairer than some Sumeru NPCs?
@silverhawkscape2677 that's not an excuse, dehya is VERY loved in China and they were pissed with her kit on release. Other CN companies such as lilith games have a lot of representation. That's just not an excuse to not be loud about it
We weren't that black either, we were brown, and because of colonialism the next generation were more pale, it isn't that deep
@@shiroeio But get this! Natlan is based off of Indigenous Americas AND Africa. Not just Latin America. And surprise surprise!!! THERE ARE BLACK PEOPLE IN AFRICA. And were there white people in indigenous America and West/Sub-Saharan Africa before colonization??? I don’t fucking think so. Maybe stop jumping through hoops to defend a billion dollar company 😅
@@mymusic11525 Im not defending them its just that is tiresome to watch people being "white saviours" and then brainwashing other people to think the same, please use your own criteria, is it really that important to the point of harassing people over it?
This game is for Chinese people and in their country they view pale skin as beautiful, its only their culture
I also think they should have had a bit more darker skins for Natlan. I know even the Chinese and Portuegese people aren't that happy with it. They have nailed the design costumes and clothing but this things kinda feels disrespectful to the people that are being represented when the people there have been discriminated against because of having darker skins.
They're kind of throwing shade at the Chinese community to stop the hate on Hoyo but it's not like the whole Chinese community is actively racist
I like new designs, but I think it's still the shame they didn't try to use darker skin tones.
You still spend money on it right? They never your yapping, they care about money.
I’m with you. I still think the new character designs are great, especially the geo jaguar girl and the Archon. Would be amazing to get more dark skinned characters (Dehya is one of their hottest, so I don’t know why they wouldn’t want to do more)
@@shironasama0445 i know a few people who were turn off just because she's geo and i felt that... but let's see...
@@lagrangewei Likely she’s going to be a rainbow buffer like Kazuha, so no need to worry.
This is so very well said and true. Speaking purely about Natlan, the dendro boy and hydro girl match my personal experience of Mexico (ik they’re not both Mexican), even reminding me of my own family, but the little blonde girl breaks my immersion with whiplash. I know there are blonde Latin American people, but for the time setting the game seems to be showing, it just doesn’t make sense in my brain no matter how hard I try and see it. Maybe there could be a lore explanation later on of how during the lack of archon people migrated to Natlan, but we’ll have to wait and see. 🤷♂️
EDIT: I’ve already gotten used to seeing everyone in Natlan, no need to talk about that anymore. I just wish there was a wider range to pull from when it comes to skin color in Genshin, my favorite game. I’m also the type to get frustrated when I see all the videos on how Genshin characters are pale as a ghost! Just because I want colored characters doesn’t mean I instantly hate all characters. It’s not about immersion anymore to me, it’s just about having characters that look different from others so people can see themselves in the game.
I should also share some of my thoughts that I’ve noted down in the comments.
I’m super hyped for Natlan! And I love how the characters look because I feel like they represent my family with their personalities and style. I also want more variety in looks going forward on new characters. I don’t think the solution to the lack of diversity is to go back and re-do previously established characters that the fandom already loves. I also think it’s important for people to see that not all Latin American, African, Middle Eastern, and Indian people are brown or black, and that does not make them less part of a culture. At the same time, I think it would be awesome to show that people of those regions are brown and black too, to show that no one culture has a specific look, and that every region in the world is varied to different extents. My personal wish is to see more diversity in future characters, not to remake all the old ones or to attack anyone for how they look. And at the same time, I understand that this is Hoyoverse’s game based in a fantasy setting, and that the cultures it draws from are more an inspiration and not 100% accurate to real life. But that is why there is so much discourse about this subject because people do want more representation in media, understandably so.
I went to school with a blonde Mexican, lmfao. Hell, my extended family has non-Jewish German heritage (more direct is German Jewish and they have red hair), and that side has blonde hair.
I am Mexican born and raised (proudly so, lol), and we are not all brown. The fact you'd say one blonde character "breaks your immersion" is laughable in the extreme. Blond Mexicans aren't exactly rare, lol.
What time period exactly are they showing though? We think old for tribal stuff, but the characters are wearing modern streetcar of pokemon gum leader style.
@@amandaslough125 The clothing we see from the last teaser definitely doesn’t match with the pre-colonial setting we’re seeing, and I do agree that it feels way more tech-wear than it should. Hoyo tends to take some artistic liberties when it comes to how the characters dress, but this is just too modern for what they are supposedly aiming for.
@@fatuusdottore I’m really not so much confused about the fact she’s blonde; I know people can look any way in Latin America, but if we’re really going for a pre-colonial vibe in Natlan, then it’s strange to see a blonde, blue eyed little girl in this setting. If Hoyo is going for a mix of old and modern Latin America, then that’s a whole different thing and the girl doesn’t seem out of place. She actually reminds me a lot of my little cousin, who is also blonde and light skin.
learn to seperate reality from fiction and than it would make sense XD we should be happy about how they represent our cultures in the game. skin color rep is nothing important compared to cultural rep, becuz to fight racism: cultures need to be shared and spread.. wft would ppl learn about latin america or middle east if all they see is skin color?
It might be my personal cope, but perhaps they showed these three characters to... fool Chinese audience. They want to build hype and their home market is the most important to them and we know they are colorists. If there are darker skinned characters in Natlan, as they SHOULD be, maybe they will be in other clans and Hoyo deliberately structured the region so you get to meet the fair-skinned clan first and the other characters will get their chance to win the Chinese audience over by appearing in the story first - unlike these three.
I hope you're right
Nope, they're some of the darkest characters in Natlan so far outside of Iansan. There's been a new trailer😞😞😞
Hopefully that’s the case haha
I hear their chinese audience dont even like them😭😭 thats jus what i heard
That is so wrong, why would they make a region based off of real cultures to only please their own audience? Have they not released enough pale characters to carter to that audience? Why can't they let at least one nation showcase other beautiful skin tones and actually I don't even think they would lose money, instead I think they would make even more money as literally everyone is demanding for dark characters at this point with such anticipation, I have seen plenty of cn players who play games with brown waifus lmao I don't think they would treat a hot poc character any different unless they give them shit kits, like dehya she was well loved until they f*cked up her kit.
Hoyo did such an amazing job with representing the music of every region that they're based on but when it comes to skin color & character designs it's the complete opposite.
As a Brazilian who lives literally inside the Amazon forest,i was pretty dissapointed,it just feels like they grabbed the most marketable aspects of our culture and then totally ignored the people who are part of that said culture.
Yes,as a latina i know not everyone is dark skinned,i am of mixed skin color myself,but in my opinion,characters have to reflect what they are represenring,Latin America is full of diversity,so in my opinion they shpuld have put AT LEAST 1 or 2 characters of specific skin tones(Mixed,black,white etc)
I saw many people srguing that the fish girl looks a lot like how people in the Amazon forest wear and as someone who lives here...no,yes the tribe women do wear clothes that only cover their lower and upper parts(you know what i mean),in my opinion it was still a bit...sexualized.
All of this for real! Also BR here, and for further context, Im from Southeast BR and considered very white for our standards, but definitely read as mixed-race/latina/half-black in a foreign context (confirmed to me by friends that belong to other countries and cultures);
That being said, it's SO disingenuous to see so many people saying that "color doesnt matter and doesnt define culture" or "it's only ppl not from the inspired cultures that are complaining" when none of those are even remotely true, lmao. I've seen many LATAM and African ppl comment on this issue, here in the comments section and elsewhere; not to mention the ppl from Polynesian culture and backgrounds also joining in now that other characters with Maori names were revealed. I find it super convenient that "color doesnt matter" whenever we bring up discussions like these - if it doesnt matter, then WHY can't we have more diversity, right? We can have pale characters but ALSO dark-skinned ones, it's not the end of the world. When we see responses like that we see why Hoyo choses the easy path with all the pale characters :/ And all of that not even starting the discussion on the hypersexualization of dark-skinned female characters, ahhhh
The entire cast being no darker than a tan makes it quite obvious where the genshin devs stand…
Exactly. though i would like to also add consumers to the blame. Its hard to make changes when you get paid well already for not changing....
Doesnt help that my recent encounters to actual representation is tied to poor marketing, politics, and race swapping on established white char. While i understand the take what you can get mentality due to how little of the "pie" is left in the market.... it doesnt help if it causes so much drama & consumers also have a beauty standard and racial stance.
The White washing and fair skin beauty standard is not unique to genshin.... but regardless i wish we SOME data any data on how a really dark skin char would sell in genshin.
I hardly get much data of it in the other games because its also lacking (by dark skin data i mean a game that actually try to relate to real life culture... not a true made up world where skin color is not tied to a country or nation or culture its just cosmetic like hair color.)
I don't even know why they are avoiding black characters they are cool, for example archer emiya2, he's black and in fate gacha game he is very well represented
@@BlackReaper-lv9ik does he count? isnt emiya1 the kid fair skin? and i think even his darker skin is a bit pale to what the artist of genshin wanted. Do you have an example of a black hero spirit? that game is about pulling famous people from the past right do they not have a famous black person? i want to bring up an example of a gacha game but... i dont play that many gacha games that much and the games i do play do not have a character blacker than what my japanese anime would consider a japanese person with a heavy tan.
But that aside... I DO WISH we had data... from my theory... and a theory in general i think black people do not sell well... which is why i also blame consumers. The beuty standard bais isnt only on the dev and producer level, i think it has to be also on the consumer level. Why changes when you are already paid so well for not taking a risk and changing.
I WISH we had data... but like i said before there arent enough true black char for me to gauge gacha sales. Black char in other media tend to be bog down by politics, poor advertising(meaning they get less screen time then their fair skin counter part) as well as black washing already establish white char as if they need that boost to be relevant)
I really want a true black char in a gacha game i play so i can truely see consumers has and always will be part of the blame. but alas we do not have a dark char to begin with. (i wont be counting race swapping or a char getting a tan though alternate reality and sun tan means, thats my opinion)
Edit
Also doing some research on The fate gacha game there seem to be some displeasure in the "black" / "African" side since there are little African (apparently egypt doesnt count) heroic spirits?
@@BlackReaper-lv9ik Let me TLDR the mess i send you if you dont want to read it sorry XD.... i dont like to send vague words to be take the wrong way. I think they avoid black people because it doesnt market well to their consumers. And that applies to all media.
Edit
by consumer i mean the one that pays the most and the majority of the the ones that spent and ironically are vocal also. Its sad i know but it isnt just the dev.
@@SupportPikminXOXO but that's what I don't understand, for real black chars are awesome. For example, archer emiya Shiro in fate, lot of people love him and even in anime we have very nice black chars with important roles in the plot
i don’t particularly agree with the need for representation. it’d be nice, but i don’t see it as the requirement so many put it as. I’m black, though my family are islanders so the culture represented here isn’t necessarily my own. it feels really superficial and shallow sometimes when people keep pointing out how there’s no one like them, just because no one looks like them. and then to be insulted, called a simp or racist hater over it doesn’t feel good.
I'm giving my two cents as a Brazilian from the southeast region that traveled a lot and had family abroad through the whole latinoamerica:
This is fairly long and it's most cratered to my experiences. TLDR at the end, separated by paragraph.
The Natlan teaser feels like walking down the street and going to a cultural workshop. Of course, natural white hair is not common here (maybe in the far south you get what we call Loiro Paina) but the clothing and style looks like a fantasy-meets-tradition with modern flair in my own point of view, some friends even said that the blonde girl looks like she will ask if we have games on our phones, we even gave them fan-names based on the vibe because how much they look normal to us. Extremely normal, to the point the only thing that would give a cosplayer away it would be the animal ears and white hair. The rest? EXTREMELY NORMAL.
Of course, the hydro girl could have a darker skin tone, we all agreed it would be nicer to give her a nice contrast to her white hair, but we live in a highly mixed country, so having white and light tan is expected even from people who doesn't know the game. And by mixed I mean "everyone had mixed with everyone unless you came after 1900s, which means it has a chance you didn't mixed because you were being treated as cheap labor and away from the cities, isolated in a bubble of your own people". (You'll see mostly europeans, asians and arabs under this category).
A bit unrelated to the video itself: I don't feel bad about the archon's leaked design looking like a spanish colonizer because we know the archons are invaders, *AS LONG THE DRAGONS ARE ALIGNED WITH THE NATIVE CIVILIZATIONS*, since the dragons are the true owners of the land. Also I think they did that on purpose to either go with "hot fire waifu" or "needs to look like Himeko", and because neo-colonial architecture is considered our architecture more than european. BUT, read it as copium from my part because I felt a little disappointed at first she wasn't at least tan. And as a certified redhead, *just because most redheads are white, it's not exclusive*.
And, as I said, Brasil is a *very mixed*, so seeing one white dude along with two tan girls isn't that strange, specially since the mass immigration in the 1900s, you can see two people that looks alike and have very different origins from how mixed they are. Like, I often buy artisan honey from a guy who has black and native blood mixed with portuguese, meanwhile I descend from a family of european immigrants that were treated like second-class citizens until 1960 and there are people who think we are related because we both are redheads and have light skin.
Note: I don't defend what they did to Dehya's melanin because I remember vividly she was darker before her release as a playable character. Also I don't think every character should be milky-white, but I'm saying that isn't uncommon to have white people in latinoamerica, on contrary, but I would argue the more the south you go, the whiter it gets due to how the portuguese monarchy separated the migrants in 1900s based on origin.
TLDR:
1 - Brasil is mixed, characters look very normal. Could be different, but it's not bad, seems accurate.
2 - Copium related to leaked archon's design, disappointed just a little, but hopes to have a good reason other than "it should look like Himeko".
3 - Seeing white and tan people in latinoamerica-like fantasy isn't uncommon because Brasil is mixed, so much that people can be lookalikes and have completely different origins.
4 - Not defending any previous decision made by hoyoverse, still thinking we need darker skin, but once again going on light skin not being uncommon due to migration in the 1900s.
READ THIS COMMENT BEFORE, it's my reaction to the second trailer. In advance: I'm disapointed.
Came back to give my two cents on the trailer that released one hour ago: whiter than I expected and my expectations weren't that low. However, I can see most of them being part of everyday life in my own city. The jaguar woman? On point. The redhead lady with black nails? A goth attending BBQ. BUT, Ororon... I truly expected him to be at least tan, even though I wanted him the same shade as Iansan specially because *we know* who he is being named after. Him being white was a massive turn off for me.
On the archon, I do like this design more than the leaked one, she reminds me too much of Death in a brazilian cartoon and has similar vibe.
The only character I felt it was very out of place was the pink hair girl.
EDIT: Friend said that pink girl could be a reference to Mani since she seems unnatural, but I think it's very unlikely.
EDIT 2: Nobody was reading this comment, so I had to put capital letters.
TLDR:
Mostly okay, Ororon made dirty, needed to be darker, I didn't expected that much whiteness, pink hair girl feels out of place.
The Death you speak of would be from "historias assombradas para criancas mal criadas" or am i tripping?@@randomthoughts6680
Well said
Thank you so much for this! I wonder if HYV cooked up an immigration plotline...
@@tarobirb4943 my response under the main comment shows I'm not exactly happy with what I saw in the most recent trailer.
But I do expect the said plot to justify the "lack of coffee in this latte cappuccino" since it's more than I expected.
I mean, we have Thoma and Amber('s grandfather) with similar plots.
I completely agree that good worldbuilding needs to be consistent and that this is the only reason skin tones should be consistent. If a fictional story can change hair color to be blue, as you said, then it can also have ANY skin color as well. They shouldn't be bound by real-life rules, only by their own. So, consistency - that's the key to suspension of disbelief.
But I don't agree Hoyo has been inconsistent. Take Sumeru as an example: desert folk have darker skin, and forest folk have lighter skin. That's it, there are no exceptions. "Oh, but they said that in Natlan-" No, they didn't establish that. In the comics, Venti said red hair and tanned skin are features of the CHILDREN OF MURATA, and not of the entirety of Natlan. The Children of Murata are a specific tribe, not the entirety of Natlan. Then, we have Yansan in the Travail trailer. Okay, she has a darker skin - so what? How does that inform us of the entirety of Natlan? It doesn't. Cyno was in that trailer and he has darker skin, and that's not the complexion of the people of Sumeru - only desert folk. So the same goes for Yansan, her skin color only informs us about her own ancestry, and not of the entirety of Natlan. We can't possibly know what is going on in Natlan until 5.0 is here - and as we've already seen, not all people are tanned. There are no inconsistencies here whatsoever.
Oh, and about Dori, whatever "orientalist" arguments people give I shun away as cherry-picking (not that she's a great character, I find her insufferable). Why, what is there of historically accurate in Mondstadt's fashion? There's NOTHING there merely resembling anything remotely like medieval germanic clothing. Heck, I could spend a whole day criticizing Noelle's and the KoF's armors and how they are terribly inaccurate and unwieldy. Bennett wears hiking boots, for crying out loud. I don't remember ever seeing any art of women wearing anything similar to Jean's clothes, Eula's high heels, or Amber's tight and short outfit. What, do you think medieval witches wore Lisa's dress? Mondstadt is 100% made based on medieval fantasy - the city itself is completely bonkers and a terrible castle. Even their power structure is more like modern libertarianism than medieval feudalism. There is nothing culturally accurate in Mondstadt. Not that I hate anything about Mondstadt for its inaccuracies - quite the opposite, I can very well tell it's not supposed to be representative of real life, and enjoy it for what it is. This is a fantasy game, and in the European nation, people want to see European fantasy, not REAL Europe.
But I digress, no one complains about Mondstadt. Cherry-picking, I say. Well, at least I'd rather assume that's just people having some cognitive dissonance than to instantly assume they are actively judging right and wrong based on someone's skin color ("because Mondstadt is based on a white country, so it's fine"). Which, at least to me, is much more problematic than what a fantasy story does in its fantasy people in a fantasy world.
Also, people gotta be reeeeeeeeal prejudiced, let's say, to think everyone in Latin America is dark-skinned, huh? Here in Brazil alone 47% of the people are white, ranging up to 75% in the southern states.
And finally, let's be honest, if this was just about "being consistent", people wouldn't be soooo worked up. I can only think of one reason why people would be so upset about skin color in this instance, but I'll keep that to myself since I REALLY hate assuming what people think before I get to actually talk to them individually.
Taking artistic liberties is one thing. I do not believe anybody expected a fantasy game to take the "inspiration means realism" approach. It's the same with most other regions in the game, and even other media. Natlan is inspired by Latin American, Polynesian, and African cultures. It is not expected the clothes, buildings, environment, and culture will be entirely realistic to those cultures simply because it is inspired by them.
But then shouldn't it be the same when it comes to skin tones? Well, that's a bit more complicated. The issue people have isn't that Hoyoverse took another artistic liberty like with the clothes of Mondstadt. When taking into consideration the history of colourism in China, it's not difficult to come to the conclusion that the exclusion of darker skin tones within the main cast isn't a case of artistic liberty.
@@IamEL1979 then why shouldn't inazuma/liyue have smaller eyes then? just going by what u said. I believe in the fake sun theory bc of the fake sky
@@lolidemon3163 Ok?... Good for you? Didn't know we were just sharing conspiracy theories with the class. Uh... I believe aliens are at Area 51...who's next?
Hoyoverse is choosing what parts of culture they pay attention to, which is honestly a self-report on their end. Some people like to bring up "It's fantasy, it's not Earth" as a bad faith argument towards inauthentic representation, but consider Fontaine for a moment. In that nation, regardless of what language you chose to play in, had songs in real world Earth French. The languages characters speak in a game are merely a means to communicate in ways that players can understand, but Fontaine was omni-linguistically French, making it the most canon language in the game at the moment. A lot of effort is put into the Eurocentric parts of this game, while West Africa, India, and Mexico have to be fused with other nations and still come out with a majority pale cast. It can only look bizarre from the outside looking in.
Fontaine also does a play on even remote areas of Italy that are close to France with Navia and Spina di Rosula. That is not French it's italian. Historically a lot of italians especially near coastal areas have very diverse looks and can be quite heavily complected due to centuries of mixing with Arabic people. Yet Hoyo also completely ignored this, there is not even 1 tan person in whole of Fontain that i can remember.
Dude. If you actually paid attention. Fontaine isnt purerly French but a Mix of European countries like Italy. French, and British.
Lasagna, Fish and Chips etc.
@@user-sm6od4tx2p Fontaine is Europe land due to what they mixed inside. I doubt anyone complained there was no tan person in Fontaine anyways.
yeh they use language but its a damn fantasy.. glad u mentioned fontaine.. all of fontaine people are literaly inhuman.. have u forgotten all the supposedly "french" ppl in fontaine are literaly fish who taken human form aka oceanids? u dont see french ppl complain about that looooooooooooool
at least unlike the west hoyo does great in representing culutre which is the mind set in asia culture>skin color , since culture is what shows the people who we are and not melanin... compare this to how west represnets middle east\latin\mexico and u get ur answer.
u also dont see jews companing becuz they use the language and some myth but theres literaly no jewish characters or npcs in game. even the name of the world of teyvat is in hebrew (teyvat is the hebrew name for ark as in noah's ark) the cubes are literaly the hebrew alphabet... so its okay if they take cultural myths to put in their games as long as they do it positivly and not badly like westren media does it
@@silverhawkscape2677 it was just an example. There are many dark/tan Europeans. But I understand there is not enough space itself in Genshin. It would have been a nice touch all I am saying. Just because Fontainians are originally elemental beings who are translucent that doesn't mean that they need to be all pale-white. they could be pale-tan or pale-brown as well. There is soo many interesting combinations that can be explored lorewise if hoyo already takes the real world as an example.
i think I'm just pretty simple when i think about Natlan and the other regions. If you're gonna be putting cultural themes and cultural representation in games, don't be all surprise when players also expect that amount of effort to be put into the characters, and being a person of color. It's not a mind blowing thing to hear.
Also, wasn't there a huge argument once about how some games just take the culture rep and the bits and pieces they want, but ignoring the people of said culture?
Something I also don’t like about this whole discussion is the idea of something being inherently bad vs something that can be improved. Genshin can be improved by a more diverse cast, but you can tell from the writing and the many other cultural aspects that there is an attempt.
exactly
what ppl dont get especilly the americans players, is that in asia culture is > skin color, aka more important for represnetaion and making people leanr about the cultures is how they can stop looking down on ppl of color. westren media and ppl think that only skin color is a representation. while its the other way around, cultures and foods and myth is the best representaiton that can take away racism and other shit ppl always think about middle east and central latin america.
@@yukichan177okay I'm asian and that's utter bs, this isn't just about culture nobody is saying Genshin didn't do well with that it's about the colour too, you cannot tell me Asia doesn't have a deep rooted hate for dark skin, I'm south east asian and you don't know how badly east asian's treat us and even our own people see dark skin in negetive light and there has always been hatred for poc people of other cultures for our looks alone, there shouldn't be such colourism and genshin has a HUGE audiance hoyo should seriously stop being scared of melanin. The fact that they have shown they are capable of making dark skin only to put it on enemy NPCs speaks volumes for how much they don't care about actually representing the people, only the "good" parts of the culture.
@@primaryhoodies6386 yeah I think it can be improved! Which is why we are sending emails to hyv rn hahaha
@@yukichan177 As a non-American, Polynesian person I can confidently say that skin color is both not, and is important for culture. In NZ we have Maori people of every shade, from pasty white to a deep brown, and everybody is considered indigenous no matter what you look like. It's in this regard that I agree with people that say skin color "shouldn't matter". But that's just it, it "shouldn't" matter, but it does, as history dictates.
We acknowledge that our people were at first predominantly brown and that we became more pale as a result of colonisation and mixing, which is a sentiment that can be shared with many indigenous peoples including LATAM and Central America Natives, and is an argument used by many people that defend Hoyo. The problem is that they only defend their own demographic (pale-skinned indigenous ppl) rather than advocate for their indigenous brethren as a whole.
I'm not aware of what causes them to act this way, although I think it has to do with a multitude of factors from society and upbringing, but I'm not educated enough on the matter to know personally. However, what I don't understand is how you can advocate for your identity as a valid indigenous person but not also invalidate all other indigenous people who feel dissatisfied with misrepresentation just because they don't agree with you? It just feels really backwards to try to fight for your identity as a "minority in a minority" and draw your own territory in the sand, shouldn't you just fight for all to be included alongside you? All people are valid in their identity as an Indigenous person, but it's not your paleness that gets you in trouble, it's your indigenous identity that does, so you should fight for that instead in my opinion.
But that's just me, I hope u have a nice day regardless 😊
I don't think they're white... They're all that fantasy anime Asian skin tone, Venti, Nahida, Zhongli, Raiden and Furina all have basically the same skin tone yet they're all based on different nations in real life... It's the same colour we see in anime even when the anime takes place in Japan and the characters are all Japanese, if we go by the logic of the in game characters skin must reflex the nation it based on the Venti and Furina should look paler than Zhongli and Raiden who should have a slight deeper skin tone with different under tones to the European Archons.
If we go non archons then look at Ayaka, Alhaitham, Wriothesley, Yelan and Mona, again all practically the same skin tone even though Wriothesley spends the majority of his time underwater in the prison so that man should have zero colour at all, Mona and Yelan are shown to have travelled and thus would likely have some form of a tan from being out in the sun. My point is skin tone was never accurate to the region, Dehya, Candace, Cyno and Sethos are the acception not the rule in Teyvat. Is that okay no but it seems to be something that the game dev chose for some reason likely to maintain that very natural anime look, there's probably also a bit of fear fear that there would be backlash again if the dark skinned characters are bad you know like with Cyno and Dehya... I'm not Hoyo and have no say in designs but I am excited for the Natland for the world more than the characters (I'm here saving everything I have for C6 Venti and not any Natland character I've seen) I love the world hoyo has made and how beautiful Natland looks.
I feel mixed. However I don't feel like complaining is going to do anything so I'll just skip and pull for whomever I like. It is a gacha game after all.
It’s not so much Need , but more have to , since they are basing these regions on different cultures and in a way representing said culture architecture and it’s people and it’s not a good look if the two regions you’re representing that have dark skinned people ( well technically sumeru is based on the Middle East and India I guess , and not everyone from
There are is dark skinned, but my point still stands when it comes to natlan since it’s based around South America and African culture)
Oh please. I dont think Hoyoverse finances were harmed by the Fact Sumeru was a Mix of Cultures with a Mostly White skinned cast.
You don't even Complain when Fontaine us basically Europe Land. A Mix of French, British and Italian stuff.
Heck. Wriothesley is British. His name is actually British in Origin, he's literally the biggest teat drinker around and he commands the Fortress of Meriopede that is effectively autonomous from the Court of Fontaine. He Runs his own Underwater Penal Colony. Complete with many inmates choosing to live their and even get married.
@@silverhawkscape2677 Actually, a nice Creole inspired Fontainian would be cool. Maybe someone born between Sumeru and Fontaine with Natlantean ancestry.
@@owohscorner We did in Sigewinne story quest based on their name. And they were the Villain in that Story Quest.
As a latino, I dont like this discourse because its like people are saying "you are that way so you need to be that way because because i dont know anything about your environment" its so racist
They also keep going on the "it should be a fiery pit of lava of war and ashes" right? So far, the worse argument I saw, because I, as a Brazilian, loved the teasers showed a colorful landscape. I mean, Genshin is pretty colorful, it would feel bad if it was a washed-out pallet, right?
@@randomthoughts6680 that I understand the preconception because all we got for years was "volcanic land of war". It sounds like a hellscape. Especially with the death valley without wind we've known since launch. That doesn't mean I'm not hyped for the chill colorful version we got. Though I do fully expect them to give us something deadly hidden underground or near a large volcano at some point. Fontaine was advertised all bright and colorful too, and look at the tears shed for that archon quest.
@@amandaslough125 Well, I can settle for underground area. I mean, the underground in the chasm was pretty depressing.
Nah I just feel like the game itself is saying dark skin people are not desired therefore we refuse to make any good characters with skin darker than milky caramel. Not everyone in japan is pale yet it's always the stereotype and hoyo did it and made them all pale, same for fountain all of them are pale cuz French/british are all white right??? So as the usual game logic when they went ahead and created a nation with indigenous tribal people you would think at least half of them would be dark, this isn't just modern day latin america, there are African cultures and tribal influence mixed so yeah we expect darker skin tones but nope for some reason only when the nation is based on people with dark skin do they change the skin to light..🤔
As a very dark skinned person I just feel like it would be nice to see someone of my colour for once in my favourite game that's it, I don't think all of natlan's characters should be dark nope but I don't like the fact most of them are light either as they wouldn't make a nation based on Europe having even a single dark skin character so at least let the tribal nation have more then 1 dark poc character.🤦🏾♀️
how do the light skin people in natlan/pyro nation keep their skin light. isn't it very hot there.
"Horribly misogynistic" *proceeds putting clips from sumeru desert referencing Arabs*
For someone who's here to promote cultural diversity, you are doing your fare share of misinformation.
I appreciate that you talk about the way research and representation can add to the artistry of a work. Sometimes I see people say things like, “I don't care about representation, I just want to play a good game” and whether people mean for it or not, the assumption underlying this statements can be “representation makes the product worse.” But we can have good representation AND good art!
Thank you for talking about this. I'm EXTREMELY disappointed in Natlan and I'm tired of seeing a lot of content creators praise the designs as if they're so great. Personally I was looking forward to seeing more characters that ACTUALLY LOOK LIKE me.
@@RolagLondevert2563 dw many ccs are speaking against natlan right now! I hope their voices will help ours get heard!
June Yoon (voiced gaming's dad) even helped popularize the task of emailing hyv to fix natlan designs so whew there is some work being done rn at least.
But yeah some cc reactions were NOT IT
@@tarobirb4943 ngl i don't see anything the west doing anything abt it. Bc hoyo listens to revenue, not so much anything else. And considering the only western country in the top 20 for genshin revenue is Chile, nothing will be done. Rest of the top 20 is mainly all from asia with china being the biggest contributor
You see. I'm from Latin America, from Brazil more specifically. I never even expected Natlan to be representative because for the whole world latin = Hispanic, thus, I expect the characters to resemble Aztec and Inca civilization but not indigenous tribes.
I agree with all of the points you have made in this video! I deleted genshin off my phone after the Natlan trailer came out, and while i mildly regret that decision I'm gonna stick with it at least until we see more of Natlan and get to see if there will be more accurate representation and how they treat the culture.
I'm still chatting with my friends who like this game and am following the story, but I just really hope they will get better about representation for Natlan, and I also desperately hope that all the leaks I've seen about the pyro archon being a conquistador are fake, because Holy Fuck that would be probably one of the Worst decisions this game could make.
Although I am still a bit scared, Im also mildly hopeful because I have heard from people from these cultures that, at the very least, the landscape feels very accurate. The plateaus are accurate and the graffiti you can find on said plateaus are reminiscent of a lot of graffiti you can find in actual i think it was Brazilian cities and stuff. so i do have some amounts of hope still!
Dude, the Pyro Archon is NOT from Teyvat, and came with the Primordial One, and is, in fact, a conqueror/conquistador who subjugated Natlan for Celestia.
Those lore points alone make her appearance acceptable
@@skybattler2624 Honestly, I do kinda agree with you. It's just that so far, we haven't gotten a single 'bad' archon yet. They're all sympathetic or have good intentions, even those we thought were bad at first, like Ei, and if it's gonna be the same with the pryo archon, then having a 'Conquistador' rule over a region based on pre-columbus America and also be a good person who is a good ruler, feels wrong, considering just all the history regarding the cultures they're pulling inspiration from. If they were to make her bad, however, and the point is that colonizers are bad, then that would be fine.
I feel the same. I just saw the trailer and I think I'm gonna delete the game too. -_- if that person is the Pyro archon I don't wanna play this game.
@@skybattler2624 this can be said about humanity as whole they are not native to natlan or teyvat they were created by the primordial one they can also be considered conquerors who enslaved the dragons until they adapted to sauriens
@@skybattler2624 current leaks would disagree with this stuff :/ and she is from teyvat and didn't come from the primordial one.
My opinion about this as someone who is neither indigenous Latin American nor Yoruban, is that other people who are not from these cultures should not have any say whatsoever on this topic.
Honestly i LOVE the nuance in this video. Even though you assume that much of what you said was already known by the average watcher, i really feel like much of what you explained did a GREAT job at *grounding* the discussion around skin diversity and representation in this game. It's more nuanced than "culture in game, but people from culture are not in game." There are a lot of moving parts and things to consider. Sure, i still come to the same conclusion that Hoyo would probably benefit from improving skin representation in game, but at least my reasoning for it is more rationalized.
Yes, the nations are heavily inspired by their respective cultures, but they're also twisted and molded in a way that fits into the fantasy world they've built, which creates a layer of separation between real life and the world in-game. But even with that said, its been well established in-universe that characters with darker skin absolutely exist in Teyvat, and have not specified otherwise or cited these people as major exceptions, which makes the lack of more diverse skin-tones in nations INSPIRED by cultures that contain populations with many darker-skinned people than what we see in-game feel a little strange and off-putting.
I was one of the first people to bat for Hoyo for the racism complaints against them for Sumeru, because I feel like the issues weren't being approached reasonably and weren't considering the circumstances to the full extent. I thought "Okay, these people from Sumeru live with all this greenery and shade, so they don't really have a reason to be particularly dark." Looking at the eremites present as mercenaries from the Desert, it honestly further confirmed my belief that the fairer-skins of the people from the forest wasnt unrealistic, even for irl standards. But it felt weirder and weirder as we got further into the Desert, and the darkest character we got was Candace, of whom by most standards, is just fairly tanned. Now that we're in Natlan, the nation of fire, I'm definitely sussed out by Hoyo's design decisions. I think they do a great job in every other aspect of cultural references, music, world design, aesthetics, etc. But man some of the characters just don't feel quite right (notably Mualani, which i genuinely feel like wouldve benefitted from a darker skin tone to compliment the tan-lines/light tattoos)
My immersion into the game didn't come until the end of the Liyue Archon quest. When I finished it, I got so hyped for Inazuma and I've kept that hype for each new region
Hoyo...is a Gacha game. Their endgame is profit. They do not care about representation to the extent people think. Their queerness is another aspect where this shows since it's nothing but fanservice. Whoever thinks otherwise is very out of touch with the nature of this company. Why do you think everyone simps for the MC? Why are all the characters appealing, even sexualized at times? Yeah, just another form of fanservice. Go figure.
How about family representation? Did you notice that no playable characters have biological children? Some characters lived for hundreds or even thousands of years yet had no children of their own (adopted and symbolic kids are the only kind that seem to pop up here and there). If we're talking about immersion this always takes me out of the experience if I dwell on it because it's unrealistic no matter how you slice it. It's not 'appropriate worldbuilding' for any world where characters experience sexual attraction.
People have to realize that a Gacha game whose primary motive *IS* to sell characters will have rules in place that ensure the highest possible appeal to their audience. They will compromise on worldbuilding (and common sense) if it means more sales. I'm all for criticising/discussing art & media, I really am, but Gacha is a specific case. It cannot be held to the same standards as other kinds of media because of its business model.
only chara i can see break the rule abt having no biological children is alice. Though can't u technically make a case for raiden with scara?
No, not only it's "a game"
It's also "a game that not about representating real life"
People only complaining about "lack of representation" when it come to region that based on a part of the world while ignoring the other regions
For example
Chinese and Liyue
Liyue does not represent China, the NPC name, music, the art, building are (for example Yunjin song)
But the character, skin tone does not. Not all Chinese people are pale skin (despite the beauty standard)
Same with Japan and Inazuma
If you force this game to "represent" instead of "base on/ take inspiration from"
It creates a dangerous message, for example:
- Money that the whole world use is created by China
- Japan government is corrupt and the ruler is a tyrant
- German ruler is useless drunker
Not to mention saying one region in Gi represent one region in real world is just straight up wrong
Even before Sumeru, all regions in Gi are taken inspiration from 2 or more real life countries
Mondstadt are mix of Germany and Itally
Liyue are Chinese, Mongolia, Taiwan, and some Vietnam
- Inazuma is Japan and Greek
Yet suddenly after Sumeru come out, people act like the "mix" is racist and avoid representation
Man imma be real. Im a white girl with sectoral heterochromia (so a section of my eye is a different colour) which is like a only about 6 in every 10,000 people in the usa for complete hetrochromia and even less for sectoral to the point they don’t actually know how rare lol. Now so why the hell am i saying this? Well i am saying this cuz i am some how more represented that dark skinned people who are certainly more than 6 in 10,000. I should not be represented more than them.
Also before someone says ohhh your not be represented for your eyes or whatever, ive been picked on for it and had weird comments about it so yknow lol
"I feel like what I said were things you know already, but hopefully i was able to order and phrase the arguments in a way you can mention these points to others" YES YES TEN TIMES YES
this video was really good! i agree with all of the points you mentioned, but the most utility i got from it was being able to take your packaged ideas so i can more easily bring up what i think about genshin's diversity to my friends. thank you so much for this resource!
@@lit_kzh AWWW THANK YOU SO MUCH I'M SO GLAD TO HEAR THIS FROM YOU IT MEANS A LOT
Some thing that i would like to put forward. I am not taking sides, i am not indifferent to people's need of representation, i am just not radically on either side of it, I can care less of representations in game, but i certainly am against about people being judged on base of color.
Cultural symbols arent copyrights. If there is a star symbol in X culture, it doesn't have to mean that all stars that look like it should and will represent that culture, no matter how uncanny. Genshin is taking inspirations from cultures, however they have never explicitly stated that "hey we are taking Latin America and other cultures and copy pasting it to our game..everything will be exactly as real world", it is us, who are linking it to the cultures..they arent "explicitly" stating that.
Another thing is, culture is a result of tales and way of living passed over the centuries...it is not connected to skin color. Skin color is dependent on the geographical location on "earth". Meaning to say, if lets say British people took on the cultural practices of lets say a majority black community , they wont just turn black as a result. Not to mention, for humans the the skin color is entirely due to the sun. Closer you go to the equator, darker the skin. Teyvat landscape is entirely different, the desert there was not the result of natural erosion, but due to the nail hitting the earth. Not to mention, with sky being fake theory, chances are the sun isn't even the sun and an artificial lightsource. An artificial light source cannot trigger melanin even if id doesn't have enough UV concentration.
I am not justifying their actions, and i would love to have more color variety ingame too..BUT i also feel that people are so very adamantly trying to pin it on them. Even if they are at fault, they can give any number of excuses like i gave above..they can probably do it better.
Like i hate to bring this up. But thats kind of wat happened to the swastika. Had many things to do with different cultures. Then WWII happened. I think that is probs the most famous example of wat ur saying.
@@lolidemon3163 Yes. I have also said this in some other post somewhere. i am indian, and Swastika is indeed a very good example for this. When I use swastika, i use it to represent my culture and religion. What a certain someone did to a certain community has nothing to do with it. WE as indians have no reason or obligation to drop our 5000 year long cultural history for a man who used a symbol that looked just like ours. Period. We were not the ones who did that nor do we support that. The symbols may be same they hold different meaning for us compared to what it did to him.
And if someone does gets offended by an indian using that symbol, blame us for mocking their sentiments or being insensitive, then its hard time they learn about cultures before accusing them.
I said this before and ill say it again
Majority of Asia
are very openly racist.
It just gets sugarcoated with their culture, food, and huge impact with entertainment. It also doesnt help that people who visit there only highlight the good parts.
Even if hoyoverse did. I can't imagine how much backlash it would've gotten if they made a whole nation of characters mostly dark skinned. Top that off with how racist the western audience is
They very much keep taking the safe route
However i wish they would just. Not care and give proper representation of all skin color. Arlan from HSR shows that they are capable of doing so.
Its also really sad that a huge part of this community treats people who wants better representation as some sort of karen complainers that should stop playing the game if they dont like it. Its the most brain dead response that i only hear 4th graders say. Theres nothing wrong with wanting something better for a game you enjoy.
Respectfully arlan isn’t a good example because his gameplay and kit is mediocre however the character itself and how dark his skin is ye thats good
Representation isn't skin deep. Melanin isn't the only thing that matters wen it comes to culture
It's inspiration, not representation 😂💀👀
The short answer is: no.
Long answer: It's not only just a game, but THEIR game. They get to tell their story and design their characters however they wish. You don't own these concepts, you're not entitled to them, and simply being part of x group doesn't give you a right to domineer someone's creative process.
There's also the matter of what "good representation" actually is, which will vary from person to person. It is very obvious Hoyoverse studied the cultures of the places they have created based on IRL nations very well, they're not superficial depictions and characters like Al-Haitham even are references to famous people of those cultures, to say nothing of the food, architecture, and dress style of the characters (for example, Dottore is very unmistakeably from Sumeru, that much is obvious by his Jodhpurs and the patterns on them as well as those on his lab robe (it is a robe, not a coat) matching other Sumeru characters, the design of his mask as well (this is seen especially the beta designs, but in the final design as well), his wings/cape resembling stained glass (like the lamps at the Akademiya), as well as the feathers and very excessive accessories (the large jewel in the middle of his coat, in Persian culture, some people flaunt their wealth and status like so, and his true name [Zandik] is Persian), the Arabic-style spurs on his boots (as opposed to Eula's Western spurs, for instance), though of course there are some Western elements to it as well, like his jabot, gloves, the pseudo-lapels that make his robe resemble a coat, and the boots (which allude to his time in Snezhnaya.) It is a perfect design for his divided heart, torn 'twixt duty and heritage, past and future. Couldn't be more perfect tbh, and those falsely insisting he was from Fontaine forget Russia is also Western, lol.
The WQ/SQs also tend to reflect the cultures and nations well, Genshin's team misses with some things like characters they clearly didn't know what to do with (Arlecchino, who originally was much darker, and now is kind of schizo due to the last-minute retcons), but with the actual regions and rosters overall, they do an amazing job.
What seems askew more than anything else is Western (tbh, namely anglophone) fandom expectations, where THEY have a very stereotypical notion of what regions/people look like and want that stereotypical portrayal peddled as "representation."
Not everyone in ME/NA/Central Asia is very brown, there are people who have blonde hair in Palestine, and blue/green eyes in other places (my grandma had green eyes and I get my pale complexion from her Lebanese heritage.)
Similarly, not everyone in LatAm is Hollywood brown, we have different colours and we have only seen three characters in the trailer, one of whom is brown (yes, shark girl is brown, she is just in the sun....)
People from LatAm come in all different colours and that seems to be the primary influence for Natlan, not Africa like some people delusionally think (it'd also be insulting to mix us together...)
More likely, a place dedicated to African culture will exist like Delphi/Enkanomiya is Ancient Greece, Petrichor is Ancient Rome, Dragonspine seems to be Scandinavian, some parts of Liyue are mixed with other Asian countries, Fontaine has British, French, Italian, Spanish, and some German culture [though Mondstadt has more of the latter] etc.
I'm sure there'll be a mixture of all cultures from LatAm, and their respective heritages, both native and European, which reflects our culture and history. The Pyro Archon being based on a Conquistador also makes sense for the setting of Genshin, and well, we are speaking Spanish as a main language/our heritage is a mixture of it and native cultures.
Ironically, it is the people whining who don't understand our cultural nuances whatsoever, of course there are others but I noticed they are mostly teenage to YA girls from the US or other usually anglo countries, who have a really distorted idea of what our culture is, namely from Hollywood and surface-level leftist politics. Funnily enough, it is these unsolicited "protestors" who end up being the racist ones, just like in Sumeru.
Though I suppose it is my privilege to share a similar scandal to my Daddy Zandik's homeland, lol. And I'm psyched that Columbina is from Natlan as well, since DottoBina is adorable, and her being Latina makes it even more so. ❤
Anyway, these weird Amazon fanfics modern Hollywood produces aren't representation, though I defend their right to exist as artistic works of fiction, however divorced from reality they may be.
Hoyo usually does a great job researching the cultural nuances of their regions, so I can't wait for Natlan. I have faith based on their prior records that it won't disappoint, and if it doesn't conform to woke Americans' fantasies (like the word "Latinx"), it'll be even more accurate "representation," since we don't care and actively mock that kind of thing in LatAm. All we want is a great story and region that feels like home, and is cool, of course.
And all I want is playable Dottore and Columbina, my two favourite Harbingers also technically represent my heritage, which is a funny coincidence. 🙏✨💖
THANK YOU for this comment, as a mexican, I couldn't agree more. Really, everyone who are offended are not even from Latam, and we are all here super happy that they are using our culture in a game we love. I get more upset about all the people getting angry because not all characters in natlan are brown. The girl in the travail trailer and shark girl both are tan skinned. So there's 50% so far lol.
@@xvgarnet It's not just based on latin american culture. and I know latinos that also have issues with lack of representation.
@@xvgarnet Tan doesnt count for them
Ty for speaking Sanity. Despite being from X group. You do not hold a Monopoly over people ability to creatively take ibspiration from the cultures of the world.
@@xvgarnetit's not just latin America
"Orurun" based off the Yoruba Deity (the same one my mother mentions daily in prayer) is pale when that doesn't make sense for a deity based in Nigeria.
Futhermore there's only 2 brown characters and that's are Iansan and Mualani, the rest of them look tanned at most
I love this video and the comments section here. There are so many stories and so much nuance in what Hoyo did right and wrong. I'm not directly affected, so I find it really valuable and insightful in a way I haven't gotten from seeing bits of discourse elsewhere. I think it's partly because youtube comments and videos are allowed to be verbose, so information and opinions can be articulated more accurately, but this video also seemed to open up such a nice forum of people sharing genuine thoughts and concerns. It's refreshing to see this type of discussion, and it's given me a lot to think about as someone outside of the situation who agrees with the need for rep but doesn't have those insights and experiences to draw from. Thank you!
@@Fuzzycryptid awww this means so much I'm glad!!!
I wonder if Genshin will have a Teyvat equivalent to a character from Kazakstan when Snezhnaya comes along.
They need to have someone or some enemy be a reference to Baba Yaga.
I'd like a kikimora too.
So snezhnaya will also be mix of culture?
@@aethernity8270 Hopefully, but who knows. We'll have to wait and see.
I think Snezhnaya will be based on Russia
@@anastasia_852 yeah tsaritsa is a dead giveaway. Maybe some italian influence bc of the harbingers. But everything else kind of screams russian.
Funny part: I am an Arab from Saudi Arabia. My friends and I. The moment we saw Sumeru, we said the best game to represent an Arab civilization is except Desert Bart. It is literally very racist. 😂😂
Correct me if im wrong. I believe that while yes, it was meant to represent not just saudi arabia but india, turkey, egypt, and plenty more. The desert part meaning to represent parts more of egypt and other desert neighboring countries.
@@TheRealKinich yeah desert part is moreso egypt. Look at the duolingo ad that they did with genshin. The egyptian pyramids were used for the pyramids in sumeru. Dead giveaway there
I agree with the video but I wanted to say that I'm not sure if Natlan is portraying native Americans or Africans. I got the feeling that it was more post colonial because they still portrayed spanish influences in the art for natlan. Although the skin colors are inaccurate, I still really appreciate things like art of xiangling cooking tamales. Idk why hoyo doesn't want to make dark skin characters but does good representation for every other aspect of the culture well.
@@creamycookie9898 you're so right about hyv not wanting to make dark skin 😭😭😭
And I think natlan has both native Americans and Africans! Also Maori and Hawaiian ppl! It's a big nation after all
@@tarobirb4943 oh wow that’s a lot of cultures. I think that hoyo should’ve made a nation based on Oceania. I never see representation for people of Melanesian decent and their culture really interests me.
No one needs to give us "good representation
Did you watch the video?
As I was watching the Natlan teaser I was shocked by how pale all the characters were and how they all looks so much more similar to each other than other nations. I felt like every single one of them was just a carbon copy of one another slapped with different colored clothing or different models. I am very disappointed in Hoyoverse and their character design decisions. I will not be spending any more money on any of their games as it is disheartening to see that they didn't even try for Natlan after Sumeru not having a lot of variety in skin color. I am hoping with some effort maybe they will do a few recolors on some of the characters. It won't be perfect but at least the effort would show that they listened. But I know that is a long shot given how Hoyoverse is with audience complaints.
I do find it a bit funny that this is the first nation we have gotten no early character sheet leaks from before the teaser and it has the worst character designs.
Tbh I have seen many people argue about the skin colour of the new region characters and I personally don't think skin tone colour would count as representing ones culture. (Like search it up many online result would tell you that skin tone is NOT apart of ones culture)
Now one can argue well why don't skin tone count as apart of the culture? Well the main reason it won't count would be,because in some culture people would have like the same skin tone,but their culture would have literally NOTHING in common😅
Then what is the meaning of Culture? Well it means
-the tradition
-the design of their traditional clothings
-the building in that the culture own
So I don't see why the whole community is arguing about something that everyone should know before they start or at least should have done some research about it? (Plus Idk but I feel like some people don't even play genshin here they just wanted to join a argumentor something?)
But in all fairness it's only my opinion, em oh yeah one more thing I also don't see why the hoyo player community are bring this type of comment into HSR "like this there aren't enough dark skin characters" and then started ranting about how hoyo dosn't listen to 99.9 percent of the community Iam pretty sure most of the player DOSEN'T even care about this whole thing,they just want to continue on the game like😅
If you don't like it dont play. Easy enough.
True, I left like seven months ago and found better games naturally, Genshin is only a popular game because it's on mobile.
@@Claude_1303 i'd argue mobile is the worse way to play genshin though
@@lolidemon3163true
Really good videos! Keep up the good content!
As a person from the latin american community, my take on this situation is that hoyoverse mainly focuses on characters that look like Colombians and not other regions (Africa or smth). There isn't anything inaccurate about their designs because a lot of people where I'm from look pale to other people, not from there. (Think of Shakira or Karol G or smth.)
We will probably get more darker skined characters in the future because, unlike other nations, Natlan is a mix of multiple real life cultures, and those cultures don't necessarily share the same dark skin tone that everyone thinks.
I heard that there are different tribes/factions in natlan from the manga, so maybe each tribe/faction will represent a different real-life culture. This would explain why some characters like iansan and cryo clorinde even though they are from the same nation (Natlan) they represent different real-life cultures.
Fyi: My relatives' skin tone is about the same as citlani (tsundere girl) even though we are latin americans.
This argument does not need 23 minutes. OFC they have to. Genshin takes their whole lore from poc, takes the characters name from poc, takes everything from clothing to each single environmental detail from poc but somehow they all look European. It’s like white people cosplaying. Even if Genshin based everything from white and whitest cultures the fact that they fear melanin like it’s plague must out them as a colorist/racist company.
CULTURAL REPRESENTATION EXIST TOO AND WAY MORE IMPORTANT THAN MELANIN XD skin color is not representation. also its not like those poc countries do any representation for chinese or asians while they do use their names cloths, foods, music and etc.. the only representation the west gives asians is "that one kid whos smart or does well in math" and than u all go and expect and demand from asians to represent poc? its hypocritical how do u expect people to understand poc if all u do is gate keep cultures instead of sharing? we in asia share our cultures and welcome others to join, this way people will we who we are beyond our melanin or the bad rep the westren media gives asia and latin america
also GENSHIN DOES HAVE DARK CHARACTERS. U JUST IGNORE THEM CUZ U DONT LIKE THEM AS THEY ARE NOT OP ENOUGH FOR U ALL
@@yukichan177 then where’s the darkskin Fontainians Inazumans I’m waiting
@@ulookbeutiful3736 WHITE PPL COSPLAYING
yeah I think this is what my immersion section was going for. Feels so weird...
Still waiting on the game from the nations of the people complaining about representation that depicts white and asian characters nicely.
I totally agree that there should be more skin tone variety for accuracy and representation reasons. But there is also the aspect that some designs look better with a tan. It can help the characters clothing, hair, and details pop-out more. And it helps to make characters look more distinct from one another. Genshin has 70+ characters and there are only so many color combinations you can do that are still aesthetically pleasing. If skin tones had more variety, that would add another way for characters to be differentiated from one another.
Make your own 'representation'.
i LOVE when people misuse the word minority. if you're talking about other cultures and lands, those people instantly stop being a minority, they are in most cases, if not all, the majority of the population and the originators of said cultures LMAO please stop perceiving everything through such a western lens
also, a lot of people seem to misunderstand and wrongly assume the intentions of mihoyo, just to justify this kind of criticism. mihoyo has always simply taken inspiration, in all aspects of the lore, rarely using 1:1 names or concepts. they take HEAVY INSPIRATION from different cultures throughout the different regions of teyvat but they have NEVER stated they've set out to REPRESENT these cultures. as someone who's not white i was also disappointed with the lack of melanin in the new cast but i think everyone is blowing this way out of proportion. they don't owe you shit, and they aren't obliged to change designs just because people are unhappy with them, and even if they did better representation it's not like it's gonna magically end racism. can we please stop this drama because it's getting pretty old and looking at hoyo's track record they're never gonna listen to you
I've not play Genshin for more than 2 years now , but these controversy just get my attention to look back at the game .
this is purely from outsider perspective , in which I have look up some statistic and estimate sales data .
speaking logically , statistically and not morally .
It's never anything more than about the profit for Mihoyo .
"Representation makes fans happy" this sentence isn't necessarily true ,
as in fans too , are divided into each region , believe , standard , sensitivity and ideology .
How many % of the fans will be happy with representation enough and are willing to pay more for it ?
and when fans that's care about "representation" amount to maybe less than maybe 5% of the entire player base .
Catering to that number come with a risk of alienate the other 95% , some would assume more than 5% care about it ,
but in reality the petition carry around 100k+ signature which is only 0.17% of entire player base .
It's pretty telling how many people actually care enough about the representation .
and it paint a clear picture for Mihoyo of which group is their main target audience they would cater to for more profit .
especially when the numbers of players and revenue from CN Server is far exceeding that of Global .
In the end , Mihoyo is a for profit company .
What Mihoyo care about the most is profit , If representation can't translate directly to more "profit" ,
in which we can't really prove that it did or didn't . Choosing the safe option for their main target audience carry much less risk of losing "profit" .
It's pretty clear to me that , Mihoyo would do more for "representation" , if it can directly translate to "more" profit for them .
This was really great and informative!! Not to mention an pretty fun watch!! I hope to see more in the future!!
@2:00 Tinkerbell is based on the fae folk of European mythology.
While i cant say much about Natlan, i can say a lot about Sumeru. As a Swana, acornym for south west asia north africa, and my playing experience with Sumeru was mixed.
Im an amazigh but i am pale because north africa where skin diversity is very normalized. We aren't white by defition as the "whitest" skin an amazigh has is Dehya melanin and im just pale. Even so this in itself made certain characters in sumeru very weird for me as Tighnari, Collei, Dehya, Cyno and Candake are white but avcording to the gamr Cyno, Dehya and Candake are dark skinned. Even Sethos is just white on amazigh standards. Besides them, design wise certain sumeru characters just have a very stereotyped outfit. Nilou snd Dori are the biggest offenders by this, having very orientalistic designs. Im not saying that they are orientalist fully but you can see that Nilou's outfit was almost accurate but then they exposed her stomach and made her skirt overly exposed that gave this image of orientalism.
Al-Haitham and Tighnari also were weird for me as Al-Haitham is based on an Iraqi scholar that i learned from middle school but he is just a white man with white features with a white sounding version of his actual name. Tighnari, while his outfit is accurate to amazigh culture, im still jumped by the fact that he is from North Africa. Collei is a character i don't see a problem being pale as that fits with her health condition but in the genshin webtoon she has an hijabi mother and her necklace is from Libya. I would have wished that more Libyan elements would be put in her design.
Layla as well. Design wise she is actually really unique as she has Iraqi styled design but her pearl white skin was really weird for me.
Dottore is the biggest offender for this. Before Sumeru i thought he was italian but no he is Persian 💀 nothing about him looke persian at all.
When it comes to the Sumeru story they use a lot of western tropes in their storytelling which again left a bad taste in my mouth. It felt weird, especially in the Jeht' world quest, how it was a whole "people of the sand yearn civilization" story quest 💀 i know that its a fantasy game but please 💀 this aint it
Many Swana credit critiqued Sumeru since the beginning and while there are a handful of amazigh that enjoy sumeru, for me that strange feeling while going through Sumeru kept me away from fully enjoying the game.
Hopefully if Genshin is forced to change Natlan they can also change Sumeru as well. I still enjoy genshin because its the one game where Swana culture is represented in food, music and architecture accurately compared to most games. It brings me comfort whenever i enter Sumeru and let the music just play. I just wished they put this much effort into the characters and story as well
This is the best video I've seen so far ! (and ive been watching videos on the topic all day...)
I really hope it gets more traction ! I'll share it with as many people as i can as you deserve the support ! very underrated
Hi hi, very good vid, you definitely articulated these issues well, thx thx. I typically don't care much about representation like this, but this case is different; Genshin clearly makes regions with heavy influence from real world countries and cultures. And for Natlan, darker skin tones would be thematically appropriate. As a half black half Mexican, I was specifically looking forward to Natlan to actually see some more darker skin tones for the playable cast but the moment I watched the Natlan teaser I immediately felt disappointed.. not only were all 3 of the playable characters very pale, but the VERY first enemy shown was darker than all 3 of them. I genuinely felt myself disliking what I saw. For a while I'd been coping about Hoyo and the colorism claims, thinking to myself "oh well this place is based off of X. It only makes sense for there to only be lighter skin tones. It'll probably be different in Natlan." But nooooope. And that's my main issue, Hoyo will clearly allow darker skin tones for enemies and NPCs, but the playable chars are always tan at best with a couple other exceptions (Kaeya, Xinyan).
Thx for talking about this, really hope more people do too. Hoyo pls......
Cant wait for the fanart who’ll do the character justice
Black South American here, I don't really feel misrepresented, since when I started playing this game back in 1.0 I was aware that they were taking inspiration from real-world cultures, not putting these cultures in their game. This was made even more apparent to me in Inazuma since I live in a region of Brazil with a large presence of Japanese immigrants (Tomé-açu), I'm fairly familiar with Japanese culture and folklore when I learned about the youkai in Inazuma, they are called youkai, but they are Elemental beings, while the real world youkai are spirituals beings. All this is to say, I enjoy seeing the cultural references in the game, not because I think that's how the real-world cultures that inspired those of the game look like, but because I like to consider it an introduction to those cultures, seeing those cultures in a fantastic and fun world makes me more motivated to learn more about their real counterparts (example of this would be how the game made me more interested in learning about Ibn Al-Haytham, them my 5 years course of engineering ever did lol).
According to Tolkien, what Genshin uses in its world isn't "Suspension of Disbelief", but instead, secondary belief, as long the world is consistent in itself, you'll be immersed, it's only when the fictional world betrays its own previously worldbuilding that you use suspension of disbelief.
Thank you for making this video. As an African who's been playing for a few years now (and happily introduced my friends to the game) I was really looking forward to Natlan. It's hard to describe how disappointed I was when I saw the trailer, not just because of the representation thing, but also because it seems hoyo just kind of forgot all the things they had already said about Natlan before now, lol. Land of fire and blood? looks more like a cheap safari knock off theme park.
Given the games' history though, I blame myself for expecting much else really - But also, if I'm being completely honest, I can't say I don't hold a bit of resentment towards the game now and I get the feeling it'll only get worse when Natlan does come out.
Side note, I don't think Hoyoverse are racist or anything like that, it just feels like yet another sphere / medium where anti-blackness is normalized, even when unironically claiming to present art inspired by / alluding to our part of the world.
@@bankoleesan2129 thank you so much for your input! I've been wanting some African fans to comment on my vid but haven't gotten many until yours so thank you so much!!!
@@bankoleesan2129 You can email hoyoverse too btw stating your concerns! It's a mass movement going on right now!
If you’re going to represent a culture in q game that is heavily influenced by it you should put the same amount of effort in all cultures you’re going to use regardless of what they are. I know hoyoverse is a Chinese company but they went above and beyond for yunjin and for the other nations, so why would it be so hard for them to properly represent something as simple as proper skin tone.
@@Uno_Oz you're right it is just simple!!! Just color adjustment and they couldn't even do it 😭😭😭
I mean it doesn't *need* to... but it'd be really damn nice y'know? They don't need to give us good endgame either to continue making millions
Maybe in sneznaya or khanreah
Eu sou brasileira então quando eu descobrir que ia ter uma região no Genshin, que é um jogo que eu gosto muito, que ia ser inspirada na América Latina eu fiquei muito feliz! mas ao mesmo tempo eu fiquei muito desapontada porque na América Latina, pelo menos no Brasil onde eu moro, tem muito mais diversidade do que as peles pálidas que foram mostradas nos personagens de Natlan, o máximo que teve lá era uma personagem bronzeada e uma personagem com uma pele um pouco mais escura do que o resto mas pelo menos onde eu vivo tem muito mais diversidade do que isso, tem gente de todos os tons de pele possíveis!
"It just makes fans happy"
Fam, this is the Genshin Devs side of Mihoyo. They haven't appreciated their fans since the start of the game. Tell that to the consistent anniversary rewards we get every year, and the next one will be no different. They'll just chug along with whatever plans they got and don't care if their fans fall off the train, cause they know that they'll still have plenty aboard for the ride cause of the Hoyo mantle Genshin is under.
Things are a bit clear when you have 1 country Japan, Germany and France and you have mixes. You take the individuality of the cultures. Not that they have to do a nation for all these countries but seems like something pretty Eurocentric
Its france and England mixed to. We literally had a 100 yr war and kinda hate each other lol
I haven't seen a single latin american offended or angry about these designs, so I don't understand why people who don't belong to the culture are. For all we know they are basing Natlan in the colonization era or even more modern just by looking at their clothing or are also including Spain in the mix which would make sense more fair skin people. We also only have seen 4 characters, people are just quick to get offended before we see the rest.
Just because people expect all latin americans to be brown, doesn't mean we are. I do hope to see more dark skinned people but if we don't, I don't really care. I'm just happy that we get referenced at least a little in Genshin.
I'm Filipino but I've already seen people who are from the cultures Natlan represent get upset about the lack of skin color variety. Same with Sumeru, and there are also people who said the same thing you did 😅😅 I think the problem is that while in SWANA, Latin America, etc. there is diversity in skin tones, but that 'diversity' can hardly be seen in the playable characters. There's 83 playable characters but only 6 characters are tan and the NPCs who are dark are the enemies you fight ingame, so that kind of gives off a weird message, at least to me. I am kind of hopeful for more darkskinned characters in Natlan, but given Hoyo's colorism in other games not just Genshin, i think its better to lower my expectations 😢
@@gabriel-ri7hn Just looking at the comments on this very video from latin american people, I don't see anyone upset, also in the community in general where I hangout no one had any negative comments. Sure, we'd like to see more diversity in genshin but I don't think it's a big deal. There are also tan skinned non enemy NPCs, and the only tan enemies are the eremites, which make sense since they are the desert people.
@@xvgarnet That's fair, with the way you put it, I'm guessing I just branch out(?) more on social media. I've seen more backlash over Natlan in Twitter than in the other genshin socmeds I am in.
edit: Also has more to do with who you follow on social media, of course
I just wanna say I disagree with your point that "tanned skin" is not a big deal. Colorism is not a thing that just stops existing in fiction, and Hoyoverse is proof of that. It's not just Genshin too, nor is it just Hoyoverse but other games outside the company as well.
I can get lengthy about talks in representation in media, but I am open to a discussion about it if you'd like ^^ what I just gave is kinda small compared to what I really have to say since it's kinda hard to comment on my phone
@@gabriel-ri7hn You are right, it is a big deal for some people and I respect that. What I meant is that is not a big deal for most of the latam people I have seen, I am sorry I worded it wrongly.
I understand that representation is important for some, not only in Genshin but in other games as well. Fortunately some games such as FF14 are adding more dark skin tone characters which makes me happy. So far, no gacha game I've played have black characters though.
@@xvgarnet Oh! I see, then I misunderstood haha, my bad. The thing is, Natlan isn't only inspired by Latin America. It also draws inspiration from: Mesoamerica, Western Africa, Mexico, Hawaii, Polynesia, Maori, Aztec and Mayan cultures. It seems like a lot, because it is. Hoyoverse seems to have a knack for mixing cultures, which is also seen in Sumeru and on a smaller scale in other regions as well. I've mostly seen other people from Latin America say that "lightskinned/white people exist too!" well yes, they're everywhere, but that doesn't mean that Genshin can just ignore the tanned/brown people too.
My point being, do all the cultures have to be represented by someone lightskinned? Does it always have to be the pale minority, majority or whatever? Nope, it doesn't have to be but it's almost always like that 😢Even before Sumeru and Natlan came out, I've already seen Kaeya and Xinyan having inconsistent skin tones in their official art, in fanart, people didn't take the time to properly learn how to color tanned skin so they ended up looking ashy and the already pale characters just kept getting whiter lol
As for the last part, I haven't played a lot of gacha games too, but have you heard about Nekomata from Zenless Zone Zero (another hoyo game) and Reverse 1999? I heard from others that Nekomata actually doesn't have the problem of having that ashy skin tone, and that Reverse 1999 has a more diverse cast, I think they're also doing the characters from different regions thing and the characters actually look like they do come from different parts of the world, so I'm kinda happy about that.
I Feel Mixed
I'm Chinese/French, so I'm not lacking in representation. Nor can I fully speak for the cultures (South America and Africa) that Natlan is based off of. However, I do agree when others say that Genshin has a colourism problem.
I don't think saying Genshin can't include people with more melanin because it's a Chinese game is a good excuse either. Dislyte, a game also based heavily around real world mythologies albeit with a heavy Hip Hop influence as well, and made by Lilith Games: Shanghai company, same place Mihoyo is from, includes several playable characters of colour. Some of whom are absolutely busted.
Yes, I know China is discriminatory against those with darker skin. However, there's nothing directly stopping Mihoyo from including black and other playable characters of colour. Especially when Mihoyo is a $23 billion company who can easily afford the risk of doing so. If Lilith, a company worth only $5 billion, can do so, I don't see why Mihoyo can't either.
@@blindgamer584 yeah people are making that exact point too
Mihoyo is a conservative company in business, their very first game died with low income and then they remake it as a gacha game which at last proved to be a success, so they keep their gacha system and allow nothing challenge it in the game design. Maybe you guys should vote with money for their dark-skinned characters.
I think its important to note the difference between inspiration and representation. While I’m not sure if the game developers have ever said they aimed to replicate real world cultures to a tee, I feel like the aim of Genshin was to take bits and pieces of real life culture for its aesthetic value rather than for their established/ inherent meaning. Realism shouldn’t be at the forefront of the conversation when creating an enjoyable experience, but rather how thoughtfully it is written.
I don't care. it's their story they can do with it as they see fit I am not someone who's going to be a hypocrite and be like they can't do with their story as they see fit because of things I've said in the past about issues with characters in one game where the community was making the character trans,
And for years the character story was about breaking free and being who they were meant to be they were forced to live as a girl because the land they were born in if twins were born of the same gender one of them would have to die, the reason I bring that up is because eventually the developers came out and I still think it was really stupid considering you had 20 years of story where this character was forced to live as a girl and completely against their will but their bear completely okay with it now. But it is what the developers decided to say it's their game it's their story they get to do with it as they pleased you cannot like it I don't like that decision I think that was stupid because the story says one thing but it isn't my story it's theirs people need to grow up.
as a person of colour (Khmer Chinese)
i'm kinda a mixed bag about the subject i've seen the natlan inspiration and i believe its a very cool choice of design and i love the colours!
(however im a little disappointed about the pyro archons design not because shes more pale than expected but its because it feels bland compared to the rest of the natlan cast, love the sunset shimmer hair lol)
i would really like for hoyo to add a little more of skin colour diversity, adding more darker skin characters would really be awesome! like xinyan i really feel seen at her design as a person whos half Chinese and have a more darker complexation
Natlan's Mauvita was a little shocking... She's not even the typical Euro-White lady wrapped in another culture, she's just straight White. Even anachronistically White compared to the time period Natlan seems to be representing. It's definitely weird but Hoyo needs to sell and I think the bias towards whiter skin worldwide certainly factors...
I mean...this definitely relates to that question why do Asian anime and manga creaters tend to always use people with European features- even if they SAY those characters are Asian? For instance, the main character of "Monster" is described as Asian, but looks White. Naruto...White. Ayaka does not look Chinese. She has every other indication of being Chinese except actually looking Chinese. Zhong Li does not look Chinese. Nilou does not look Middle Eastern. Mauvita does not look Brazilian. The only way that works is if you pick the more European-looking Brazilians or Asians out of the group to represent the rest.
why would ayaka look chinese?
@@wisteria7052 I meant Japanese
There's also the added fact of Mualani, Olorun and Mavuika not being inspired by LATAM, but instead Africa and Polynesian, so the argument that they should look "Brazilian" shouldn't even rly apply to them 💀/lh
@@budderbro0037 i forget exactly the name but olorun also has a paralel god in latin america.
Thank you for doing this video and emphasizing how important representation is. I personally had mixed feelings regarding the trailer, yet I was grateful that there were characters that were of the darker skin variation, especially when they showcased Iansan, the darkest playable character I've seen in Genshin. Which I am immensely thankful for, yet at the same time, I hope there are more in the future. One is not nearly enough for the number of playable characters in the game.
Also, I just really want a person with an afro textured / kinky hairstyle.
I’m just going to say this, you do have a point, there should be darker skinned characters. But, if characters are allowed to have unnatural colored hair and eyes, can’t they have whatever skin tone they want too?
Genshin represents cultures in many other ways than just skin tone. From the clothes people wear to the buildings in their city and their food. Maybe I haven’t been in the Genshin community for that long and maybe I don’t have a dark skin tone so I don’t understand. Also, the game is a fantasy game and also hoyoverses game, so they can design it however they want.
Again, yes I believe there should be more diverse skin tones, but I feel like the game represents cultures in so many other ways. This is just my opinion, and I really don’t know the perspective of people who are from these cultures that are represented in the game. (Or aren’t) I know people do wish that their skin color was in the game, but it’s hoyoverses/mihoyos (idk) game. It’s not supposed to be strictly based off of real life.
This is just my perspective on this situation. As long as it’s a good game then I’m fine with it. Be free to correct me if I’m wrong or just being unreasonable. I’m open for other perspectives because I’m genuinely currently about what other people think about this. Also, I’m white, so I don’t feel like what other races and cultures feel. Idk how they feel.
And, before anybody says that I’m being biased or saying that I don’t care about other races and cultures, I 100% agree with people saying that there should be more skin colors. It would be amazing to see a character with darker skin, and maybe there will be some that are in the next update since I believe it’s based off of the South American region. (It reminded me of the ancient Aztecs at some points)
I like how you bring up actually points and don’t just say they need to be darker. I’m actually native and not dark but do get tan, and the really dark natives you see are because their job that keep them out for long(field jobs), but my mother has a desk job but is still tanned so I see the point natives are dark. I don’t care about ethical side of things(usually) because I know I will never see a Black, Native(American) Hispanic, Asian, people like me😅. So this allowed me at a young age to look at the characters personalities instead of their looks or gender because I just like who they are and feel connected to them because how they acted! But I know others don’t hold the same ideals as me. Also I love this video even tho i feel like they shouldn’t feel obligated but should understand where people are coming from, and the creators are Asian who will probably make the designs align with themselves but it would be nice seeing diversity!😊 loved most your points it helps me realize not everyone is just saying they need to be darker!(the points I didn’t like weren’t even about the race parts it was just the lore that you got wrong!😌) have a good day night or etc!
I seen enough black washing in the us for dei point, so no, genshin don't not need to make characters darker to please me. And I see a lot of people that's complain.Ing and seem to be "white saviors" that doesn't help either.
Im just hoping that the lore and history are good. The skin color issues to me don’t really mater as much as content. They could pander and have great representation. But i whole heartedly believe that context and content matter far more than looks and representation.
Maybe it’s because of all the Woke drama happening to things like Star wars. But I just hope for a great story.
Also as an artist, i have the belief that you can create what ever you want to. Yes i could take inspiration from primarily cultures from POC nations. But I do not have to create poc characters if I don’t want to. This entire drama rubs me the wrong way and reminds me of the blackwashing and whitewashing dramas in the past. Idk thats just me.
( I’m A Americans poc, if I have offended someone because of what i said I’m sorry. But i stand in my opinion.)
based on my observation. most (not everyone) i see on South East Asia don't really care about skin color. most of the complain i see is coming from the west.
for me it's not the role of genshin impact. but when you take literally the culture of the people, the outfit, certain name etc. then yes for me it is important to add a representation of the people who inspired your character. if he had stayed in an East Asian universe, well no. but when you take inspiration from Africa, South Asia, etc., it's still better.
Black American here, my world philosophy is that no individual person is objectively obligated to anything for anyone else, not even for themselves. That being said, I don't think Hoyo is obligated to properly represent people of color. But by that same token, I am not obligated to buy their product... doesn't seem like they even wanted my money anyway, given how terrible this situation is...
so is it reasonable to say this video can be summarized to "only because genshin is trying to draw from irl stuff, and people that don't care won't care anyway so just add it for the ones that care so they shut up" As for dori, hey I'm malaysian chinese (don't know which to say first) I... don't get the "stereotypes" because, isn't she just a scam merchant? Like, is it stereotypical? Are all egyptian scam merchants? because that's what people that say she's stereotypical imply. Dori is the only one with that design.
And rip natlan hater, don't know what you expect but nobody is even sure what natlan is based on. So I had no expectations. Also I don't research into other cultures for expectations.
From what I know, Dori aligns with the orientalist stereotype that merchants from the middle east are scammers and greedy. Also, Natlan is said to be based on Mesoamerica, Latin America and Africa
From my understanding, because it's not like anyone complaining actually hard analyzes, Dori's a stereotype because she's dressed like a genie. She's got the baggy pants etc. She's got an Aladdin's style lamp. And she fights with a djinn, which supposedly is disrespectful since they're powerful beings that demand respect (god forbid players remember any other example of powerful mythic creatures being chibi-ified and reduced to playable character companions in the game: guoba, ushi, the suanni etc).
The only thing I'll give people is she's supposed to be Turkish inspired (it's in there) and yet she randomly has a Persian (I think?) name. But like, she's a merchant. And a famous one who easily could have just made herself a title.
I don't mind since i never expected it. Like commented and subscribed 👍
Random fact: Inazuma is literally a Japanese word linked to electricity, or something of the sort (I can’t fully remember) and I know this because I’ve got my own universe based on Japan (somewhat, not entirely) but I’ve made sure that all the names and stuff are Japanese. So the electric element is called Inazuma because I didn’t wanna use ‘Denki’ or ‘Kaminari’ and I couldn’t shorten ‘Kaminari’ to ‘Kami’ because that means Deity or God :/
"work of fiction" process to rely on irl reference on worldbuiling of the game (literacy, geography, culture, lore, etc).
this is so real
Candace is one of my favorite characters in the game, so I don't mind if they make more colored characters. However, I'm also fine if they don't make more.