Judo for BJJ; How to do Ippon Seoi Nage Without Having Your Back Taken
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- Kathy Hubble on how to do do the Judo takedown Ippon Seio Nage in BJJ without exposing your back. Grab my Grapplearts BJJ Master App for free at www.grappleart... with more than 457 minutes of free techniques
I wish there was more schools where judo and bjj were taught together.
I'd you are training judo right there is no need to learn bjj lol
Wouldn't it then be classic jiujitsu?
@@senjo31 Leglocks and leg takedowns have entered the chat.
This is a great variation. I do however find that traditional seoi nage works well for me provided it's fast enough and with strong Kuzushi, especially in no gi. I do get my back taken about 20% of the time, but I think 80% is a solid hit rate. That being said, the level of grappler I'm fighting vs who Kathy is fighting is likely not the same, and my Judo experience certainly doesn't compare to hers.
For a standing nogi Seoi Nage do you keep the same grips as in this video or is it different?
I absolutely love the way she teaches. Alot of videos on grappling have too much detail and get repetitive in between steps, without any additional tips. Very concise.
I absolutely love this, and hope to see you two do a full Judo for BJJ series for the Master App!!!
Great idea James! Stephan and I will chat! Thank you for the kind words!
Yes I would love to see more hybrid moves!
@@scotopicvision Maybe in the works!!!
This brings me back to my 1st Judo Class. I got thrown by a smaller older lady and pinned in side controlled.... and then she arm barred me as I tried to push her off. Humbling experience that made me become a lifelong martial arts enthusiast
And you kept going after that. Well done. Are you still training?
Seoi Nage is one of my favorite throws and I was hesitant doing in BJJ! another variation you can do is a drop Seoi Nage, where you drop down under almost going behind them under the legs! If you do it fast enough they can never take your back! I've pulled this off plenty of times. It's a move you can only really use in competition. I would not advise doing this in self defense, dropping down on a hard surface, especially if you're over 40 with bad knees. I like the variation shown in the video! It's good for folks with bad knees.
Wonderful video. Ive always been too worried to try this in competition for fear of back take, but this variation i will practice. Thanks!
the problem with the technique is not the "classic" way.The problem is the setup of the technique, and even more important, FULL SPEED. 'Ma' (space between your back and your opponent's chest) has to be virtually non-existent, while at the same time the arm has to be tightly grabbed , your knees flexed and so your back. .Kuzushi is a must always. I've seen plenty of bjj players use seoinage in perfect form and and speed, and it works as a charm. Also, again, the opponent has to be off balance, like in every judo techinque. Do try it
She's a badass! She came to our Dojo to demonstrate and work with us at The University of Jiu-Jitsu here in San Diego.
I'm lucky to have her as an (albeit short-time) instructor!
Thank you for having me that day Michael! You guys are awesome there!
San Diegans Squad up 👆👆
I've seen this is the variation used by high level bjj guys that are also judo black belts, the angle of the drop is different to the regular version, which results in wazari instead of ippon, but gives more control of a newaza transition.
Great teacher! She execute the movement with good hability.
Thanks for your demonstration.
Arigatô Sensei, Oss 🙇🏽♂
This is awesome, please could we see a no-gi variation?
That's possible but trickier. I'll see if we can do one, but for now go watch some Karo Parisyian highlights!
@@StephanKesting with no-gi, it's a bicep-grab, arm-trap, still bury the shoulder to the mat.. It works! We can try next time together
Grip wise it is easiest when some has a shallow underhook/when you have a wizzer, here you want to trap their hand with your lat and elbow. The foot work, principals involved, hip positioning, balance, etc. stays the same just a difference in grip. Usually I set this up in o/u and is a go to move to combo with arm drag, o soto, reverse seio nage, hari goshi, ko uchi gake, koshi guruma, seio otoshi, tai otoshi, ko uchi gari, o uchi gake, not sure what it is called in judo but I learned the sweep as a scoop sweep (I think I saw someone call it a rick parry foot sweep), a dump sweep, ankle pick, and rolling kneebar based on individual preference and reactions. You can also grip when they have a single collar, but this grip can be more tricky because it is slippery. When someone has a single collar you can do what is called an elbow tie, which is when you grab right above the elbow and pull the arm into you while you also trap their hand with your head, this makes it nearly impossible to pull the arm away. Taking the same idea, when you drape you arm on top of their single collar you can use the blade of your forearm to create a similar type of pressure on their forearm and trap their hand with your head, from their grab under the armpit like an arm drag and place your shoulder and body in the same position as you would in a gi. On the side you want to throw on, if that side their leg is their back leg this is easiest way to set up the throw. Don't worry or focus on combos till you you get the throw down first then slowly work in more
It's in one of those "Judo in MMA" highlight videos on RUclips. It's not very high-percentage.
It's totally doable. Ippon seio nage is actually the no-gi version of seio nage (although gi grips still help if you have them, you can do a totally conventional seio nage without a gi at all). Morote seio nage is the gi-only version.
That's one of the things I like about most hip throws (o goshi, harai goshi etc) is not only do they not require a gi, the underhook makes back-takes very difficult. I do the same thing with tai otoshi (although actually te waza, not a hip throw), my #1 throw in BJJ. Because the mechanics of seio don't use an underhook around the opponent, but instead focus on the arm, they don't receive the same inherent protection as a throw based on an underhook.
She’s cool. I like her. You should have her on more if possible.
we need more judo on this channel for takedowns
Thank you Sensei Stephan again !
Nice twist. We teach a drop seio nage and the ippon. Also make sionage or modified where we throw from the lapel side. Fantastic video.
Thank you Sensei Kathy Hubble
Great video Sensei Kathy !
I love tying the hand up for those throws. Sometimes I feel like it is the only thing that actually lets me catch the guys in my BJJ class. Then again, so few ever want to start standing anyhow, so I don't get as much Judo practice as I'd like.
Great video 👍
Nice Detail on the Kumi Kata ( Gripping) . But IMHO it’s a more of a Seoi Otoshi ( Shoulder Drop for my other Judo Nerds out there) .
But it’s a great throw !
Yep, so basically 'How to do Ippon Seoi Nage Without Having Your Back Taken' is by not doing seoi nage and switch to seoi otoshi instead. LOL
Yadhi Wibowo
Basically, but ima Tron ya be nice 👍🏻! 😆
@@yadhi3100 truth os if u do seionage right they wont have time to take your back but this version is good too
She is a timed killer! Awesome video!!! 👏
Super vid! WE do freestyle judo on Saturdays! Will def. try this out
Excelente. Saludos desde Lima Peru
Kathy is great!
In judo we have a variation of seoi nage called seoi otoshi, also we have knee drop seoi nage. Check it out, it's almost like this one
True. Kids in the dojo do this throw many times.
Thanks.
Awesome video Sir, this video was very informative to me.
I love the concept.
Reminds me of my 3rd month in BJJ... Blue belt wants to roll, I say I really don't know anything from standing yet. Let's start from kneeling. He said na, you'll be fine. We were no gi, and next thing I know I have a concussion with a torn labrum and a separated shoulder (2 separate surgeries). Well that's my BJJ journey, was fun but probably not going back, at least for a year, but I literally can't afford another injury like this. Oh a later found out he's a judo black belt that had been training for over 21 years.
What an asshole. He should have at least asked if you knew how to take a fall when you said you didn't know how to "wrestle" from standing position yet. And frankly, you shouldn't have made it to the 3rd month without being taught how to take a hit and roll. If you decide to go back, look for an "MMA school" that has no-gi takedown/wrestling classes. Being able to do ground work is important, but I _personally_ believe takedowns and takedown avoidance are far more important foundationally.
Bloody hell - what a knob! You should always respect your training partner and what they are comfortable with. Why do so many people need to flex and show off?!!
I've seen Stephan before but first time for Kathy - Nice Combo! When ever I see judo, i wonder if the players consider self defense or if they are just trying to focus on the technique for the sake of sport?
great variation
That was outstanding!!!!!!
Excellent!
Please please please do more
If you do a Travis Steven type of Ippon Seoinage, the uke usually gets popped up into the air and thrown explosively. Looks less risky.
Good stuff Coach
This is just the drop seoi nage, the standard common way to do ippon seoi nage because it's the only one people can usually pull off (textbook standing seoi nages are rare as unicorns). I still get my back taken regularly when attempting this.
Well i start judo in freestyle (no gi). And i was taught to grab the wrist and uppercut the armpit area. Keep the fist at their head level. Once thrown they are in an armbar so long as you don't loosen up the hold. There's no way to take the back while the armbar is maintained. All that said i prefer the threat of the ippon than using the throw itself (just preference)
I like that lock up with the arm into an osoto gari
Would this count as a “slam” in competition?
She is awesome!
This throw is what is called a "flying mare" in wrestling. And what can I say, that's exactly what it is. When you're thrown across the shoulder like that, it's a frigging nightmare. You lose all control and you're being slammed to the floor with no control. It actually is kind of a nightmare. You can attack immediately for a submission, cause the thrown guy will be dizzy for a few seconds.
@@emperorjimmu9941 Why be so nosy? I am describing the feeling you get when you experience it for the first time by a wrestler/judoka/samboist. Stop making a fool out of yourself by guessing my skill level.
This was great! Do you Stephen and/or her have Judo instructionals that I can order?
Hi Jeff, and thank you!!!We are going to do a full "Judo for BJJ" series here and it'll be free... just working on it now!
Cant wait to train again and do this
More of a seoi otoshi right?
Love this variation!!!
no gi judo version please
Thanks
Great video. I am very interested in the high collar arm trap grip. Any idea what it is called? or where I can find more videos on this?
Great video.
excellent
Cool lady, full respect
So a drop Seoi Nage basically?
Merci beaucoup !
When she threw you (SK) the first time, that look at the camera was priceless! I think I’d pay to see her throw SK more. 😏 Cathy seems like a firecracker! I’d love to learn from her.
No judo player would attempt ippon seoi against opponent in such a deep jigotai posture.
SHHHH! Pay attention. World famous expert on judo commenting.
Amazing instructions!!! 1st!
Wow she is gorgeous and a great instructor as well!!Really love the grip she used. Im going to have to tinker with that.
how about great instructor and gorgeous as well o/
She is cute and so tiny so cool she can kick ass.
The secret to not getting your back taken in seio nage is to do the technique correctly. That is true for any throw and any takedown. You get countered because 1) you did not do the technique right or 2) your opponent anticipated your move. There is no reason a standing seoi is more counterable than a drop seoi. Most people I see in BJJ and lower Judo belts are uncapable of doing either most of the time. It wouldn't really matter what they are trying to do. With a crapy drop seoi you will get counter choked out before you even know what happened, which will actually end the fight even faster than getting your back taken.
Alright I'm gonna do this literally in 15m for real Stephen. If it fails as per RUclips rules I get to blame you 😉
Great
Kodokan Judo is the right choice.
Very cool 👍
Very nice variation - similar to a standing throw we do in Hapkido - wondering if this might get the takedown from the knees in Jits...?
Yes I get this from the knees quite often in BJJ
Kathy Hubble/NTB FIGHT GEAR beautiful - I will try it in Jiu Jitsu & hopefully not get my back taken...
wow thats great !
She is good
the last one was a drop seoi nage right
Watching Stephen facial expression at 1:32 cracked me up. The older you get the longer the fall. My sons do Judo and BJJ, but if you are above the age 35, I would suggest just to pull guard, or attempt a half-way shoot single leg/takedown. Judo is super fun, but man, if you want to rack injuries up, do Judo above the age of 35. It's just an explosive sport, and too hard to learn to start from scratch, compared to BJJ. BJJ you can flow on the ground. Judo there is no flow, there is only throw.
While this is viable, I think it skirts around the main issue here: kuzushi. If you move your opponent and off balance them with movement, attacks, angled attacks, and/or feints, they will not take your back even with a normal ISN or MSN. Matter of fact, drop seoi can definitely land you in a bad position, and there’s no follow up attack if drop doesn’t work.
This video is targeted at people who have no clue about standing. Adult beginners who spend 0-30% of a session on throws. For that target audience the video is good.
If you can throw Judo players with your seoi, you can do the same with BJJ players. And if the stance is bad for seoi and the guy is a wrestler or something, you would just go for a sweep, dive-in,... or just pummel the bent-over-boys. This video is not for you go watch An Changrim or Nagayama.
@@jasondehustler4994 I love An Changrim... great Seoi artist! I also love many many different versions of Seoi - and this one (amongst many others) works on judoka and BJJ players, both men and women... I enjoy Seoi very much in all its variations...
@@KathyHubble193 Hey Kathy, I think you did a very good job to explain the throw for the BJJ-crowd. And since that is the target audience of this channel, the video is very good. I mean the titel is "Judo for BJJ..."
I agree that arm-over Ippon seoi from a lapel grip is a great technique that works for both men and women in both sports. And you explained the basics very well.
What I meant by my reference to people such as Nagayama or An is that the way you showed, it is not ideal for people that have a better grasp about standing (long time Judo players), see the comment by Egyptian Space Odin. And since you can't teach years of experience in one video, you provide a good shortcut.
Smartassing below:
If I wanted to nitpick I'd need to differentiate between the first seoi and the second one because with the first one you dropped on one knee and only did a halfway turn. That version is not going to work against high level opponents in Judo from my experience. And a failed attack will almost certainly lead to a shido (again not relevant to BJJ).
The second one was closer to a classic Judo seoi and you turned a lot more. However, you had both of your toes on the mat, which is not ideal (at least the right foot needs to be flat for better entry speed and less risk of toe injury). Furthermore, you enter the seoi from a forwards bent posture which decreases the speed of entry. Instead you should aim to look to the ceiling. Here is an overexagerated morote showcase from Minho-Choi: ruclips.net/video/Y5VJe1Do__8/видео.html ).The idea stays the same for Ippon Seoi.
Jason De Hustler All comments agreed. This is for a BJJ audience to score an easy 2-points... I use completely different versions for judo comps.. here’s Seoi in my last few comps lately... i do it slightly different for judo comps than BJJ comps... Thanks for the input Jason!
ruclips.net/video/uOH8V2utiKU/видео.html
shes just adorable
Wrestling arm spin
beautiful
V . Nice
Reply good vídeo série. Oss!
oss really nice thank you
My judo theory might be a little rusty. But is that throw not more like a seoi otoshi than a seoi nage?
In seoi nage you normally has to lift the uke and in seoi otoshi you just pull the uke over without lifting at all. Just as shown in this video.
Seoi otoshi is a seo nage and a tai otoshi combined. This a drop seonage
Isn't that a Seoi Otoshi?
Good !!
I'll turn to Judo for throws when I see them being used at ADCC
niiiiicceeee.
This video shows how size advantage means nothing in judo and bjj technique will always out class size
I only use ntbfightgear.com! This lady is amazing!
looks like halfway between seoinage and tai otoshi
More Judo!
I do bjj and love it and the more i watch these videos the more i want to try judo as well.
You should study this video: ruclips.net/video/GgkNZeoVSG0/видео.html Slow it down to 0.75 speed or 0.50 speed to really see what's going on.
And then when you're done with that one you should study this series:
Volume 1) ruclips.net/video/Yk2smI7P6hQ/видео.html
Volume 2) ruclips.net/video/6_B5BAhVPwA/видео.html
Volume 3) ruclips.net/video/vB9LZM3qPNU/видео.html
Volume 4) ruclips.net/video/dFRXkGqXnAk/видео.html
Volume 5) ruclips.net/video/U3IY0govGzc/видео.html
Finally, add these exercises into your training routine: ruclips.net/video/pmU026Vuud4/видео.html
@@emperorjimmu9941 Oh. you thought this was an "either/or" situation. That's cute.
Not hard to see why the classic version results in having your back taken. It assumes the left arm is just doing nothing.
Some could say their are many holes here but what do I know I'm just a judo bb
I do not really understand. What is prohohibiting judokas from getting the back and a rear naked choke/hadaka jime? It's perfectly legal.
@@emperorjimmu9941 It was a philosophical question. During my Judo years a saw very few examples of taking the back and lock in a hadaka-jime. okuri-eri-jime was my personal favorite when attacking the back on the other hand. The Gi is the most obvious explanation, the rules are another. Perhaps it's part tradition.
Now, would you please add to the subject and stop patronizing me.
"sloppy seoi nage get you points"! love it!!
Easy counter place other hand that is not trapped to small of the back and drop your center lower than her hips when she pivots for throw ending up in dominant position behind her :)
Tjat goes for alot of judo throws but if your timings off you gona go for a hard ride
@@jonmoris9354 yup and if your kuzushi is good, and you're fast, they don't stand a chance... LOL
@@KathyHubble193 exactly hence y i love judo
Seoi makakomi...?
This is basically the drop sayonogi but only 1 knee goes down? Interesting
Edit: also why did he stiff arm when she was showing the movement slowly? That’s not normal...
How often do people actually take the back against a competent judoka?
It can be often since Judoka have a habit of turning onto their stomachs to avoid getting pinned. I say this as a Judoka cross training in BJJ right now.
I haven't had my back taken very often from a throw, but yes, if I don't finish quickly enough into side-control, it has happened... and yes, certainly from the old judo habits of turtling also! LOL
@@lurkingposter Sorry, I should've been clearer about it being off the throw. Yeah turtling will get your back taken if you don't have responses to get out of it.
@@KathyHubble193 Thanks! I've never taken a judokas back off a throw because I'm usually falling through the air. I had always wondered if it was a bit exaggerated on that, but I can see why the adjustment is important.
@@xlstaticpandalx No problem. I usually turn over on my stomach after my guard is passed. Definitely a habit I'm trying to break.
that's actually a seoi otoshi
Yup. You'd think she'd know :-)
@@Matt_Mosley1983 I also do a different version of Seoi otoshi (with the leg over his leg) but for illustration purposes here, this is a simple one most people can do...
Wasn't a seo otoshi, it was a drop seonage.
@@crimewatcherii9309 what's commonly known as drop seoi nage is actually seoi otoshi. There isn't such thing as a drop seoi nage by classification.
Thought a Seio Otoshi is when you block the leg on the outside WHILE grasping the arm unlike Tai Otoshi when you just pull the arm.
Judo: somehow both overrated and underrated
So why don't people do this in Judo? Do Judoka have better defense for that? It seems easier to pull off.
In judo you get points for the side on wich their opponent falls, the chance someone falls on their backs is bigger with the original seoi nage, with this one the opponent might fall one their side, which doesn't deliver as many points. This throw is also in judo, but we usually call it a sloppy ippon seoi nage, or a ippon seoi otoshi if you would place the knee somewhere else.
People do it, they just do it more with a morote grip and not rolling through usually due to how it will usually only land you a wazari ( half score). In fact drop seoi is spammed pretty often in lower weight classes. It looks easy but its when done in properly, or when people see it coming it's a really easy way to get choked out or turned over into a pin.
1:33 is it just me or was that brake-fall sloppy. No offence by the way!
What if it was? Shut the fuck up.
I find tsurikomigoshi to be safer as arms can't wrap round
@@emperorjimmu9941 sode 2 sleeve lots of control for the transition for bjj
Seoi nage?
That's it
I'm judo-flipping the shit out of everyone first thing tomorrow!
In BJJ they call this a Drop Seoi Nage. At least at my sons school.