Speaking of Fates, Niles is a really good example of giving an archer a really good first impression. Even on Maddening Conquest on his join chapter he's an antimage beast on a heavily mage oriented map, oneround ko's with his high spd and recieve little to no damage with his high Res. Not just that, but he's your thief, gets mov+1, has capture can promote to a staff user for additional utility. He's a perfect example of how Fates pulls archers right without making him a carbon copy of Takumi.
Agreed what you said. Like Berwick Saga made Archers really good mostly because bows are amazing in that game. Alongside allowing the Archer to use many types of arrows that can do special effects like ignoring shield or dealing extra damage or add more hit which is always helpful. It also helps that enemy phase in that game is not reliable. In fact, many top tiers in Berwick Saga are units that can wield bows like Faramir, Sherlock, Estobar and Slyvia.
Yeah i hard agree with this video entirely. My first fe was echoes so i thought the extreme range on archers was the norm. So when i played path of radiance and saw shinon only could attack at 2 range i thought it was really dumb lmao. Like you said archers and bows are better when the enemies are strong and you dont want to take unecessary damage, especially when fliers are powerful. I like fe6 and fe12 in that regard cause its a nice feeling you dont have to take 65% of your health trying to chip a paladin down to size or to kill a wyvern lord. Maybe its just me, but those types of free chip thats actually relevant and good is a really nice feeling. Its so incredibly satisfying watching a binding blade wyvern lord lose like 40+ of their health or get one rounded without taking any chip damage at all. Its like a rush of dopamine to the brain lmao. Although in 3h i dont like how bows are good because of hunter's volley, i do like bows in that game for similiar reasons. I hope IS keeps this trend of buffing bows an increase in range or in other ways and hackers do the same. Whenever we get a fe6 remake itd be nice to know wolt and dorothy are good units.
I really liked how fates balanced archers. For one thing, the game's probably the most player phase oriented experience in the series, and you quickly realize how good dual strike with archers is. Second, the 1-2 range options in fates are pretty bad, and with the exception of Siegfried, raijinto, and daggers, there aren't weapons that can double at 1-2 range. But yeah, it's mostly the player phase. 3h was also really good at balancing bows and archers. Bows in the sense that you have to pick between close counter vs another ability, their generally high might, and of course, their ability to be wielded by anyone. Snipers are the second best class in the game thanks to hunters volley, and the archer's bowrange+1 class skill was a good idea for countering mages and those with 1-2 range options.
Yeah, that’s why bows are useful in fe6 as well. Very player phase heavy with terrifying enemy fliers. The unpromoted archers are still Garbo due to low stats and bow rank, but the prepromotes can one round wyvern lords which is a godsend.
Great video Pandan! Every aspect you described I can clearly how you improved in Vision Quest. Vagelis been like a buffed dude that can hit reliably, Lajos been like a second Jagen and further in the game you get a bow that’s effective against cavaliers... I mean, what else do you want to deploy a archer in your team?! I think the execution was perfect! I think I would not pass the third part if it wasn’t for Anisa and Seruni because every enemy hits hard and most of the units can’t one round enemies! Fantastic work Pandan! I loved your hack! Currently in my second playthrough! Soon I’ll post my opinions on the forum page! Thank you for your work
I think you missed an important part of why archers feel so bad/ are so hard to use, especially for the early game archers. Since they have an accurate 2 range, it’s optimal to have the archers set up kills for other units to avoid counterattacks, which severely stunts their growth as they don’t get kill exp.
Things that I would suggest to make fe archers better. 1. Give archers increased range. 2. Allow them to ignore def. ( it is a precision weapon) 3. Include multiple ballista on alot of the maps. 4. Give them some kind of overwatch ability that allows them to attack enemies that enter their range. They should not get all of these, but any one would immediately make archers viable without necessarily making them op, and it would turn enemy archers into legitimate threats rather than minor inconveniences.
@Morph Ball which part would trivialize? 3 houses had increased range for archers and that wasnt too bad. The pierce damage wouldn't be any different than mages hitting on res, you still cant go too crazy and could be countered by giving the boss a ranged weapon. The overwatch idea doesnt even come into play with stationary bosses.
@Morph Ball yeah they could its called retaliation, it is what made the death knight so annoying. They could also decrease hit chance at longer ranges like 3 houses did. Archers are still rather weak and by ignoring defense the would essentially just be doing as much as everyone else normally is. I never said they should have all of these ideas at the same time, but one of those changes would at least make archers better.
Archer line is a really class branch to use in fates: good offensive growth modifiers, access to a mount on promotion, +4 damage and +40 hit on player phase, nice endgame ability and let´s not forget that bows are axes with lance hit.
Here's another comment, this time on how I designed my early game archer: My early game archer is, like the video suggested, a glass cannon. They are the other unit that is good at doubling early on and have top heavy stats and growths. While they don't have as high of strength as the armor knight, they do have a good combination of strength, skill, and speed. Their growths are also focused in these areas, being tied for the highest strength and speed growths of the five starting units and the second highest skill growth. They also have access to 2-3 range as early as the first chapter, giving them something that nobody else can do at this point. They also have good enough con to wield most bows with minimal speed penalties.
this is bassicly Three houses in a nutshell. (like no joke look 100% three house AKA Lance and Axe whit 1 - 2 range suck, mini-bow Crazy good, Sniper Hunter's volley make up for there slow SPD, the flyer are crazy good ETC.)
Good points. Was wondering if you’ve played Tear Ring Saga. There’s an early game Sniper who joins your army who checks a lot of your boxes. She’s one of the most unique units in the game and extremely powerful, but she will always leave human enemies at 1 health no matter how much damage she should be dealing. It gives her a reason to get a deployment slot.
Yes - I played most of TRS. Raquel is great. My main complaint is that to remove her mercy skill you need to do some side objectives involving Luka. I'm never a fan of encouraging the player to pick/use weaker units to unlock a stronger one (Ruby and Clifford in Berwick are similar).
Huh, you’re the same person as Pandan? It’s all coming together... But seriously, these videos are incredibly helpful for an aspiring hacker. With just how many there are... yeah, all right, I’ll sub. It’s warranted, I think.
What solution? Ignatz and Ashe are the worst units in the game bar a late-recruited Cyril; and Bernadetta isn't much better. The dedicated Archer units are still bad to terrible. Yes there's characters you can make Archers that wreck; like Felix; but that's because Felix isn't built as an Archer stat-wise.
3H is such an anomaly because of how fluid its class structure is. Archers getting bonus range is nice, but it's better to go with another mounted class and just give them bows anyway, since the movement is more flexible and makes up for the extra range except in situations over walls or mountains. I think 3H made bows too powerful with close counter and their crazy range options.
Gonna have to disagree with you on the importance of first impressions. Consider Florina in FE7: Almost entirely useless on her first map aside from killing two specifics units, goes on to be an incredibly effective mage-killer after sufficient leveling. There's an appeal to units that start poor and get better as time goes on. Honestly? All you really need to maker archer good in an FE game is a lot of flying enemies. Nobody would be complaining about FE7 archers if you saw a flying enemy unit before halfway through the game.
Speaking of Fates, Niles is a really good example of giving an archer a really good first impression. Even on Maddening Conquest on his join chapter he's an antimage beast on a heavily mage oriented map, oneround ko's with his high spd and recieve little to no damage with his high Res. Not just that, but he's your thief, gets mov+1, has capture can promote to a staff user for additional utility. He's a perfect example of how Fates pulls archers right without making him a carbon copy of Takumi.
Agreed what you said. Like Berwick Saga made Archers really good mostly because bows are amazing in that game. Alongside allowing the Archer to use many types of arrows that can do special effects like ignoring shield or dealing extra damage or add more hit which is always helpful. It also helps that enemy phase in that game is not reliable. In fact, many top tiers in Berwick Saga are units that can wield bows like Faramir, Sherlock, Estobar and Slyvia.
Yeah i hard agree with this video entirely. My first fe was echoes so i thought the extreme range on archers was the norm. So when i played path of radiance and saw shinon only could attack at 2 range i thought it was really dumb lmao.
Like you said archers and bows are better when the enemies are strong and you dont want to take unecessary damage, especially when fliers are powerful. I like fe6 and fe12 in that regard cause its a nice feeling you dont have to take 65% of your health trying to chip a paladin down to size or to kill a wyvern lord. Maybe its just me, but those types of free chip thats actually relevant and good is a really nice feeling. Its so incredibly satisfying watching a binding blade wyvern lord lose like 40+ of their health or get one rounded without taking any chip damage at all. Its like a rush of dopamine to the brain lmao.
Although in 3h i dont like how bows are good because of hunter's volley, i do like bows in that game for similiar reasons. I hope IS keeps this trend of buffing bows an increase in range or in other ways and hackers do the same. Whenever we get a fe6 remake itd be nice to know wolt and dorothy are good units.
Cool Video, but the music is way to loud
My bad on that, it sounded better balanced when I was editing. Sorry!
I really liked how fates balanced archers. For one thing, the game's probably the most player phase oriented experience in the series, and you quickly realize how good dual strike with archers is. Second, the 1-2 range options in fates are pretty bad, and with the exception of Siegfried, raijinto, and daggers, there aren't weapons that can double at 1-2 range. But yeah, it's mostly the player phase.
3h was also really good at balancing bows and archers. Bows in the sense that you have to pick between close counter vs another ability, their generally high might, and of course, their ability to be wielded by anyone. Snipers are the second best class in the game thanks to hunters volley, and the archer's bowrange+1 class skill was a good idea for countering mages and those with 1-2 range options.
Oh, and of course, 3h is player phase as hell
Yeah, that’s why bows are useful in fe6 as well. Very player phase heavy with terrifying enemy fliers. The unpromoted archers are still Garbo due to low stats and bow rank, but the prepromotes can one round wyvern lords which is a godsend.
Great video Pandan! Every aspect you described I can clearly how you improved in Vision Quest. Vagelis been like a buffed dude that can hit reliably, Lajos been like a second Jagen and further in the game you get a bow that’s effective against cavaliers...
I mean, what else do you want to deploy a archer in your team?!
I think the execution was perfect! I think I would not pass the third part if it wasn’t for Anisa and Seruni because every enemy hits hard and most of the units can’t one round enemies!
Fantastic work Pandan! I loved your hack! Currently in my second playthrough! Soon I’ll post my opinions on the forum page! Thank you for your work
I think you missed an important part of why archers feel so bad/ are so hard to use, especially for the early game archers. Since they have an accurate 2 range, it’s optimal to have the archers set up kills for other units to avoid counterattacks, which severely stunts their growth as they don’t get kill exp.
Things that I would suggest to make fe archers better.
1. Give archers increased range.
2. Allow them to ignore def. ( it is a precision weapon)
3. Include multiple ballista on alot of the maps.
4. Give them some kind of overwatch ability that allows them to attack enemies that enter their range.
They should not get all of these, but any one would immediately make archers viable without necessarily making them op, and it would turn enemy archers into legitimate threats rather than minor inconveniences.
that sounds like fates´balisticians and I am totally on board with it.
@Morph Ball maybe not everything at the same time
@Morph Ball plus, long bows dont tirvialize stationary bosses on their own
@Morph Ball which part would trivialize? 3 houses had increased range for archers and that wasnt too bad. The pierce damage wouldn't be any different than mages hitting on res, you still cant go too crazy and could be countered by giving the boss a ranged weapon. The overwatch idea doesnt even come into play with stationary bosses.
@Morph Ball yeah they could its called retaliation, it is what made the death knight so annoying. They could also decrease hit chance at longer ranges like 3 houses did. Archers are still rather weak and by ignoring defense the would essentially just be doing as much as everyone else normally is. I never said they should have all of these ideas at the same time, but one of those changes would at least make archers better.
I was personally thinking the crossbow, seeing as how it had 1-2 range in radiant dawn.
Archer line is a really class branch to use in fates: good offensive growth modifiers, access to a mount on promotion, +4 damage and +40 hit on player phase, nice endgame ability and let´s not forget that bows are axes with lance hit.
Here's another comment, this time on how I designed my early game archer:
My early game archer is, like the video suggested, a glass cannon. They are the other unit that is good at doubling early on and have top heavy stats and growths. While they don't have as high of strength as the armor knight, they do have a good combination of strength, skill, and speed. Their growths are also focused in these areas, being tied for the highest strength and speed growths of the five starting units and the second highest skill growth. They also have access to 2-3 range as early as the first chapter, giving them something that nobody else can do at this point. They also have good enough con to wield most bows with minimal speed penalties.
this is bassicly Three houses in a nutshell.
(like no joke look 100% three house AKA Lance and Axe whit 1 - 2 range suck, mini-bow Crazy good, Sniper Hunter's volley make up for there slow SPD, the flyer are crazy good ETC.)
Good points. Was wondering if you’ve played Tear Ring Saga. There’s an early game Sniper who joins your army who checks a lot of your boxes. She’s one of the most unique units in the game and extremely powerful, but she will always leave human enemies at 1 health no matter how much damage she should be dealing. It gives her a reason to get a deployment slot.
Yes - I played most of TRS. Raquel is great. My main complaint is that to remove her mercy skill you need to do some side objectives involving Luka. I'm never a fan of encouraging the player to pick/use weaker units to unlock a stronger one (Ruby and Clifford in Berwick are similar).
She’s plenty useful even without killing human enemies since so many monsters are fliers, and the enemy summoners will swarm you with them.
Great content in this video! One issue I'm having with the video is the audio mixing, I the music is a bit too loud compared to your voice.
Huh, you’re the same person as Pandan? It’s all coming together...
But seriously, these videos are incredibly helpful for an aspiring hacker. With just how many there are... yeah, all right, I’ll sub. It’s warranted, I think.
I always play once using only archers radiant dawn was hell because of ike being underdeveloped and required so often..
Well, just make them like artillery in AW. You saw them a lot in AW despite them being indirect aka cannot move and shoot at the same time.
So how about FE3H's solution to fixing archers?
What solution?
Ignatz and Ashe are the worst units in the game bar a late-recruited Cyril; and Bernadetta isn't much better. The dedicated Archer units are still bad to terrible. Yes there's characters you can make Archers that wreck; like Felix; but that's because Felix isn't built as an Archer stat-wise.
3H is such an anomaly because of how fluid its class structure is. Archers getting bonus range is nice, but it's better to go with another mounted class and just give them bows anyway, since the movement is more flexible and makes up for the extra range except in situations over walls or mountains.
I think 3H made bows too powerful with close counter and their crazy range options.
hows the music called??
Corridors of Time from Chrono Trigger.
I'm only using archers if it's mounted or they're actually fucking archers who could attack in idk 3-5 range?
Just make bows ignore Def
Just give them better stats
Bah just ripoff Three Houses, shortbows at range 1-2 and done.
Gonna have to disagree with you on the importance of first impressions. Consider Florina in FE7: Almost entirely useless on her first map aside from killing two specifics units, goes on to be an incredibly effective mage-killer after sufficient leveling. There's an appeal to units that start poor and get better as time goes on.
Honestly? All you really need to maker archer good in an FE game is a lot of flying enemies. Nobody would be complaining about FE7 archers if you saw a flying enemy unit before halfway through the game.
LMAO that's the most ridiculous archer take I've seen
@@FabulousJejmaze You must have a rich and fulfilling life, taking time to meaninglessly insult a RUclips comment from two years ago.