I'm an old time fan who was there when discussions about the timeline began, which was with "Ocarina of Time". Originally OOT was supposed to be the story of the Imprisonment War described in ALTTP (which was later retconned in "Hyrule Historia", but we'll get to that), thus being a prequel. Also, Toru Osawa, the game's main scenario writer, also confirmed the sages were deliberated named after the towns in "The Adventure of Link" to establish a connection to both NES games. And since LA was connected by default to ALTTP, boom! We have a timeline! Then we had MM as a direct sequel to OOT, and the trend started for real. However, although Nintendo did intend those connections, I think they expected fans to treat them as glorified Eastern Eggs and fan nods. But around the time "Twilight Princess" came out, they realized that it had become one of, if not THE biggest talking point among fans on the Internet. That's something that a lot of people forget when discussing the timeline: fans becoming obsessed with it was in large part a product of the Internet culture of the late 90s and early 2000s, since fans had it easier than ever to talk to each other on an unprecedented scale. And don't forget that Nintendo is infamously SLOW to adapt to Internet trends. Something that nowadays is almost a good thing, but in the early 2000s put them behind the curve in multiple aspects. So when they realized what the timeline had become, they saw they had a bit of a mess in their hands, because they established those connections without thinking too much about contradictions. I don't think "Hyrule Historia" was made because they felt compelled by fans to do something they didn't wanted do, but I don't really think that's the case. I think they tried to sit down and present those connections in a clear way. But when they did that, they realized those contradictions, and tried to address them. The problem is that they did it in the least elegant way possible... Particularly the pre-OOT games, which were the least concerned with a grand continuity, thus they had the most contradictions with the later games in the series. So in order to address them in the least intrusive way they could, they created the infamous Downfall Timeline, which in 2011 was primarily composed by the pre-OOT games, including the aforementioned retcon of the Imprisonment War, and they added the Oracle games, since these had a clear connection to them. The rest were put in the other two timelines, which were far more organic and made more sense. But then we get to "Breath of the Wild" and "Tears of the Kingdom". Which honestly, I still don't understand what happened there, specially with the later. I know this has been discussed to death, but it's not that TotK doesn't fit with the timeline, it doesn't even really fit as a sequel to BotW. Even worse, in the first few weeks after the release of TotK, I honestly though Nintendo had essentially de-canonized the entire series up to BotW, until Fujibayashi confirmed that was not the case. However, then we have "Echoes of Wisdom", which showed a conscious effort to take continuity at least a bit more seriously. But we'll have to wait and see how far exactly are they willing to go.
Its kind of a shame really. The whole point of the Zelda Timeline was to act as a foundation for discussion on the lore of the Zelda series but instead it feels like just something that everyone is arguing over and some people (Usually toxic Zelda fans) are even rejecting it and use the whole "iTs cAlLed tHe 'LeGEnd' oF zElda fOr A ReASon!!!" argument to try to make people feel that their interest and love for the time line is some how invalid (Which I think is stupid). I personally love the timeline and I think it should stay because as you said it adds context to the story of the other games (Even if it does have its flaws) and it makes Zelda stand out more relative to Nintendo's other popular franchises. I also agree that the timeline should not ruin your enjoyment of the games. If you don't want to care about it then you have the right not to care. As long you respect other people who do care its fine in my eyes. Great video though as I felt you at least tried to represent the timeline fairly.
Yeah I have no issue with anyone who loves the timeline or anything because I really do see its merits! Definitely think the Zelda team have made it more difficult for themselves with it at times but I’ll always be fair in my videos, thanks for watching!
Great walkthrough! I wish they put just a little effort into maintaining even the outline of a timeline. I don’t mind at all having massive leaps from one to the next; it’s actually a great and freeing approach. Just put a little effort into avoiding glaring contradictions.
Yeah I think it would be nice to know how important they feel the timeline is, because then it would help to temper our expectations! And when it comes to contradictions, I think the issue more comes from the amount of time looping and things in the games, it’s inevitable that contradictions will come into play
At first I used to care about the timeline but with what happened with tears of the kingdom left me disappoint that was the moment where I accepted that the timeline doesn’t really matter so I’m just done with it and just play games just to play because they could’ve made a straight timeline by saying that all timelines came together as the fans wanted but nope instead they decide to make things convoluted as hell and just treat it like it wasn’t a sequel at all so I just stopped caring up to this point and just play game just to play
Brilliant video as always Joie, personally I'd say the existence of a timeline is cool, but as you say, it does lead to unnecessary complications down the line, especially with how many games there are now!
Thank you! Yeah I think the idea of the timeline is good in practice but it’s so complicated and contrived that it’s almost become its own worst enemy 😂
@ oh absolutely, what we need is an endgame style game bringing all the links together in an epic finale battle against demise, reset the timeline and start from scratch lol
Hey your video was recommended and just wanted to say excellent work man keep up the good content 🔥
Really appreciate that! Thank you so much 😁
I'm an old time fan who was there when discussions about the timeline began, which was with "Ocarina of Time". Originally OOT was supposed to be the story of the Imprisonment War described in ALTTP (which was later retconned in "Hyrule Historia", but we'll get to that), thus being a prequel. Also, Toru Osawa, the game's main scenario writer, also confirmed the sages were deliberated named after the towns in "The Adventure of Link" to establish a connection to both NES games. And since LA was connected by default to ALTTP, boom! We have a timeline! Then we had MM as a direct sequel to OOT, and the trend started for real.
However, although Nintendo did intend those connections, I think they expected fans to treat them as glorified Eastern Eggs and fan nods. But around the time "Twilight Princess" came out, they realized that it had become one of, if not THE biggest talking point among fans on the Internet. That's something that a lot of people forget when discussing the timeline: fans becoming obsessed with it was in large part a product of the Internet culture of the late 90s and early 2000s, since fans had it easier than ever to talk to each other on an unprecedented scale.
And don't forget that Nintendo is infamously SLOW to adapt to Internet trends. Something that nowadays is almost a good thing, but in the early 2000s put them behind the curve in multiple aspects. So when they realized what the timeline had become, they saw they had a bit of a mess in their hands, because they established those connections without thinking too much about contradictions.
I don't think "Hyrule Historia" was made because they felt compelled by fans to do something they didn't wanted do, but I don't really think that's the case. I think they tried to sit down and present those connections in a clear way. But when they did that, they realized those contradictions, and tried to address them.
The problem is that they did it in the least elegant way possible... Particularly the pre-OOT games, which were the least concerned with a grand continuity, thus they had the most contradictions with the later games in the series. So in order to address them in the least intrusive way they could, they created the infamous Downfall Timeline, which in 2011 was primarily composed by the pre-OOT games, including the aforementioned retcon of the Imprisonment War, and they added the Oracle games, since these had a clear connection to them. The rest were put in the other two timelines, which were far more organic and made more sense.
But then we get to "Breath of the Wild" and "Tears of the Kingdom". Which honestly, I still don't understand what happened there, specially with the later. I know this has been discussed to death, but it's not that TotK doesn't fit with the timeline, it doesn't even really fit as a sequel to BotW. Even worse, in the first few weeks after the release of TotK, I honestly though Nintendo had essentially de-canonized the entire series up to BotW, until Fujibayashi confirmed that was not the case.
However, then we have "Echoes of Wisdom", which showed a conscious effort to take continuity at least a bit more seriously. But we'll have to wait and see how far exactly are they willing to go.
Some really interesting insight, which highlights some really key context so thanks for commenting, I’m always keen to learn more about these things
Its kind of a shame really. The whole point of the Zelda Timeline was to act as a foundation for discussion on the lore of the Zelda series but instead it feels like just something that everyone is arguing over and some people (Usually toxic Zelda fans) are even rejecting it and use the whole "iTs cAlLed tHe 'LeGEnd' oF zElda fOr A ReASon!!!" argument to try to make people feel that their interest and love for the time line is some how invalid (Which I think is stupid). I personally love the timeline and I think it should stay because as you said it adds context to the story of the other games (Even if it does have its flaws) and it makes Zelda stand out more relative to Nintendo's other popular franchises.
I also agree that the timeline should not ruin your enjoyment of the games. If you don't want to care about it then you have the right not to care. As long you respect other people who do care its fine in my eyes. Great video though as I felt you at least tried to represent the timeline fairly.
Yeah I have no issue with anyone who loves the timeline or anything because I really do see its merits! Definitely think the Zelda team have made it more difficult for themselves with it at times but I’ll always be fair in my videos, thanks for watching!
Great walkthrough! I wish they put just a little effort into maintaining even the outline of a timeline.
I don’t mind at all having massive leaps from one to the next; it’s actually a great and freeing approach. Just put a little effort into avoiding glaring contradictions.
Yeah I think it would be nice to know how important they feel the timeline is, because then it would help to temper our expectations! And when it comes to contradictions, I think the issue more comes from the amount of time looping and things in the games, it’s inevitable that contradictions will come into play
Loved the video man definitely got a new sub
Thank you for subbing, glad you enjoyed the video!
Could use a new Zelda 2025 official book about the timeline and characters
Imo Oracles of Ages should cause a timeline split too
At first I used to care about the timeline but with what happened with tears of the kingdom left me disappoint that was the moment where I accepted that the timeline doesn’t really matter so I’m just done with it and just play games just to play because they could’ve made a straight timeline by saying that all timelines came together as the fans wanted but nope instead they decide to make things convoluted as hell and just treat it like it wasn’t a sequel at all so I just stopped caring up to this point and just play game just to play
I like your videos but please stop the background music or at least make it lower it’s far too loud
I’ve been addressing it in my more recent videos but appreciate the feedback 😁
Brilliant video as always Joie, personally I'd say the existence of a timeline is cool, but as you say, it does lead to unnecessary complications down the line, especially with how many games there are now!
Thank you! Yeah I think the idea of the timeline is good in practice but it’s so complicated and contrived that it’s almost become its own worst enemy 😂
@ oh absolutely, what we need is an endgame style game bringing all the links together in an epic finale battle against demise, reset the timeline and start from scratch lol
Imagine The Legend of Zelda: Endgame 😂
@ hey mannn, I’d play it
I mean if we honest the zelda timeline has never made complete sense. W vid too!
Thank you!