@@FriendlyExmuslim My friend don't forget as follows: It is really mind boggling. First of all those sleepers should be Christian believing in the Trinity and the Trinity is condemned in Islam as Sherik or paganism so why the Quran described them as true believer's fleeing the infidels?
The legend of the Seven Sleepers is an ancient Christian myth about seven people from Ephesus who slept in a mountain in response to Roman persecution in 250AD. They slept for 300 years until one of them went out to find the whole town fully Christianized. The Quran corrupted this verse more than 300 years later. You can see the irony now.
It is really mind boggling. First of all those sleepers should be Christian believing in the Trinity and the Trinity is condemned in Islam as Sherik or paganism so why the Quran described them as true believer's fleeing the infidels?
@@thebeautyofthesoul5081 again, it's a Christian myth that was misquoted in the Quran. There's even a dog that slept with the Sleepers. And their identity and circumstances were never mentioned in the Bible. The Codex Vaticanus which was the oldest Bible manuscript to ever exist, was made only around 300AD.
The Christian seven sleepers’s story was the one that made me open up my eyes and went into the rabbit hole how the Quran plagiarised so many stories, Hebrew Bible, New Testament, Zoroastrian etc.
It’s just one long game of telephone. Sumerian beliefs and ideas carried to early Semitic ones into Judaism, Judaism and Greco-Roman myths into Christianity, then down to Islam and so forth. Parallels to Egyptian beliefs found peppered along the way. The monotheistic tradition evolves and operates exactly the way that transmission chains do.
Some non practicing Muslim think they are atheist. Atheism is not about skipping some Salah and other practices. Most of them become religious as they age. Another joker who thought he was an atheist started practicing his religion again. That's it.
Not only that, but many men will wander away, and then be drawn back to islam for a variety of reasons, yet with my favorite being the promises of an entirely heathen jannah(islamic heaven), where each and every one of his physical and sexual desires is met... and he will be treated as a king~harem and all. It is not so for women. A question for all muslims. Why on earth(no pun intended) would islamic "heaven" cater to the physical needs of man(food, wine, fancy green robes etc) and the sexual needs of man.? This realm is the one wherein we require food and drink, clothing, so why do we look for it in heaven.? And why the promises of sex, not only from your endless harem, but from the jinn and the "beautiful and/or fair serving boys".? Heaven is the next place, one where we will be lifted up and made clean and new, where we will ascend and worship our Creator.... yet muhammads heaven was all about the base instinct of feeding his sexual addiction. How can it not be so clear to any muslim who has been in their own sources.?!.... that's right, approximately 90% of muslims have absolutely ZERO clue as to the contents of any one of their own qur'ans and haddiths....and yes, despite the fallacious claims to the contrary, there are multiple DIFFERENT Arabic qur'ans. I could go on and on, but I shall digress. Anyone seeking truth would be amply occupied searching out those points alone... and as you go, you come to find out each and every fallacy, each and every plagiarized sentence, each and every made up surah and the incredibly detailed description of muhammad, including his sexual perversions, his abhorrent hygiene, his medical/psychological issues, his days as a warlord, a rapist, a raider and a pedophile. Yup, more than enough in this one post for any honest muslim to seek truth on, yet so many will not simply out of fear.
If the book was so mathematically miraculous, perhaps it should not have made a mathematical mistake in distribution of inheritance. For certain scenarios, you end up with percentages of inheritance not adding up to 100%.
I learnt Faraidh when I was young and now I am an engineer, never failed in Math and I swear there is no mistake in inheritance distribution. Allah is Great. Al-Quran is the Truth Book from Allah.
@@efaizariff3145 Your logic is derived from a vile, licentious, psychotic 7th century warlord. It is like saying Einstein was a genius because he studied the Torah. 😅
I remember a shaikh who was asked by a student about lying and making stories for dawah. he said no problem with that and sometimes its recommended and most of us do that, , yesterday I was sitting with people and they were chatting about an atheist lady went to mecca and couldnt see the structure ( kaba ), it was not visible to her because she was an atheist, an atheist who went to do hajj 🙂
How about the story of a poor Muslim living in the west because he wasn't looking at beautiful woman Allah rewarded him and he became rich owning his own company.. 😂
@@Kafirman666it doesn’t sounds like Allah rewarding people for not indulging in his sexual desires. I think it’s the opposite Allah would want Muslims to r@pe them.
7:35 the reason he can't say numerology is because if his followers search about it, they will quickly find more impressive numerology in other religious scriptures and even non-religious books. If I am not wrong, Jewish Rabbis have been using these on their scriptures more extensively than it has been done on Quran. It's something that impresses the most impressionable minds.
Not only Jewish Rabbis with the Torah codes, but also many other theologians have applied such to the entirety of the biblical scriptures.... and, it is absolutely astounding, to be certain.
I don't think it is good to assume motive...what he is doing is NOT what is commonly referred to as numerology. Numerology involves the number value of letters/words. As in, this letter has the value 1, this letter has the value 5, etc. In ie Hebrew the letters have numerical value. Numerology also exists in other languages -- for instance, much is made in the Bahai Faith about 19 being the value of the word wahid. What he is doing is counting the number of times a word appears and sees that there is an unrealized correspondence between the count and the story in which the word appears.
@@1001011011010 Marriam Webster: numerology noun nu·mer·ol·o·gy ˌnü-mə-ˈrä-lə-jē ˌnyü- : the study of the occult significance of numbers occult 2 of 3 adjective oc·cult ə-ˈkəlt ä-; ˈä-ˌkəlt 1 : not revealed : SECRET deep subterranean occult jealousy -J. C. Powys 2 : not easily apprehended or understood : ABSTRUSE, MYSTERIOUS occult matters like nuclear physics, radiation effects and the designing of rockets -Robert Bendiner 3 : hidden from view : CONCEALED This perfectly reflects what is being practiced
I know a guy who became an atheist from the following process: He took the number of letters in the statement "god is not real" and subtracted the number of letters in the word "religion". He was left with the number 4, which just so happens to be the number of words in the first statement. I don't think he ever fully recovered from that epiphany.
I'll go by the same muslim logic- He wasn't an atheist to begin with. Just an attention seeking conspiracy theorist waiting for conformation bias and surprised himself. 😊
I love how these scholarly Imams speak so intelligently, and logically build their case until the last second they make a crazy turn to reach their goal.
Four has four letters. 😱 OMG! I just wrote a four word sentence about the number four having four letters! The sentence has five syllables, but that's fine because 5 is also a holy number - Allah, Quran, Islam are all words with 5 letters! Alhamdulillah!
@@FriendlyExmuslimf the story came from an earlier source, it is also possible that the original author deliberately designed the words in a numerological way. There might be a design in this, but of human origin.
But to be fair atheist call nearly everything a coincidence. Like the existence of the universe. How likely is it that everything exist because it happened randomly? If gravity was a little bit stronger everything would change. Life may be not possible and surely not like the life right now. If you look at the universe you see that a creator is more likely than "it happened on its own". And there are so many signs in the Quran. There are so many more numerical miracles. And so many prophecies. The literacy on his own is a miracle. No one could write a similar verse of the Quran. To ignore this many "coincidences" is for me a sign of ignorance. Even if the people could see miracles with their own eyes they still wouldn't believe because their hearts are blind. May Allah guide you all.
Recently someone in a comments section online offered to show me a "miracle" - yes, miracle - in the Qur'an that would probably make me believe. Like a fool, I agreed, whereupon he quoted something about the universe expanding. How could mere mortals at that time have known the universe was expanding, he demanded to know. I pointed out that there were only three possibilities - the universe was either expanding, contracting or staying the same size - so the odds were actually two to one that a mere _guess_ would be right: half as "miraculous", in fact, as predicting a rolled die. He never replied.
I remember - decades ago - when my Sunday school teacher told me about this great pastor who was visiting Iraq (where I was living) from another country, and she quoted him, answering those who didn't believe in the story of Jonah (the guy who was swallowed by the whale and remained inside it for 3 days), as saying "if the bible said it was the whale who swallowed Jonah, I would have believed it too. At the time I was like wow, what great faith .. I learned a lot since then. I still believe in God and in some parts of Christianity, but I don't feel that I have to accept everything.
@RituDhasmana Thank you. Thank you. honestly i had to start with wikipedia to find out what Sanatana is. did you mean learn about Hinduism in general? (I'm sorry I really don't know anything, though for a while I've wanted to learn). Is there anything specific you suggest I look up? (otherwise I'll just go with youtube recommendations). wish you the best.
Which is respectable but i invite you brother to research Christianity more , you will find that there is very convincing Archeological evidence for a lot of things and a lot of prophecies fulfilled in real time , i was blown away when i read about the archeological evidence of the story in Isaiah which talks about the army that God defeated , Historians still have 0 idea how those men died overnight and the narrative in Isaiah is the only plausible one, the bible is insanely accurate about the places and events it describes , so why can't the miraculous ones be accurate as well , it gets the other things absolutely correct why is it that we still can't trust it when it comes to the miraculous events ????
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
@@theguyver4934 lol no one cares. islam is garbage one way or the other. you guys need to stfu. it doesn't matter whether christianity is false or not, islam is not just false it's garbage.
@theguyver4934 Why deflect? What do you say to people who reject both Islam and Christianity because of the incredulous nonsense in the books? Then what?
@@theguyver4934 why do you suddenly went off topic and bring Christianity all of the sudden bro? Why do you spread misinformations about early Judaism?. The imams in Old Testament weren't even vegetarians wth. They ate sheeps, goats, deers, etc. You guys however eat haram/non kosher meats such as cows, camels and rabbits thus making y'all disobedient to the law of Torah lol. I'm not even religious bruh
@@johnbaljian295 show me What twisting and misquoting is there why are not too verses of the Qur'an not Contradicting each other and verses in the Bible do I can show you many differences Someone Who is copying will atleast copy One mistake from it and Also He Recited the Qur'an And the history says people use to hear it And write it someone All of a sudden without practice can recite such texts Without any mistake and Also The Qur'an says produce and A verse like it if what you say is true Can you think someone who is Copying will give such a challenge
Thanks for this video brother! I had a chat with a colleague and I was telling him that there are different versions of the quran. Which he denied, but i didnt know how to look for them. Now i know. Would be great if you add your references on the description please!
I wouldn't be surprised. One Muslim in a comments section online offered to show me a "miracle" - yes, miracle - in the Qur'an that would probably make me believe. Like a fool, I agreed, whereupon he quoted something about the universe expanding. How could mere mortals at that time have known the universe was expanding, he demanded to know. I pointed out that there were only three possibilities - the universe was either expanding, contracting or staying the same size - so the odds were actually two to one that a mere _guess_ would be right: half as "miraculous", in fact, as predicting a rolled die. He never replied.
@@joshuakohlmann9731 but what are the odd that there are so many right predictions? And not one contradiction or mistakes? Sure a man can be right about somethings but not everything
How can a rational person prefer a coincidental numerological appearance over the actual content of the text. The text is saying utter nonsense, but because of word counts the nonsense should be believed? It's ridiculous. I am, btw, at a point where no miracle can persuade me that Islam is true. As a radical naturalist, I also think that real miracles are impossible.
I’m so amazed at how many Islamic scholars from Indonesia today have openly told with what the Quran actually says, despite the various threats they have received from other scholars.
"Sleeping Beauty" and her entire kingdom slept for just a century. "Rip Van Winkle" slept for a mere 20 years. They both were under magic spells. Also, if you were to visit fairyland for a couple of weeks, then return to this world, you would find that many years have gone by and everyone you knew is long dead. The religious sleeper stories seem to be related to this idea. Not just kids but plenty of older people love magical fantasy stories and want to believe some of them are really true. The religious stories promise that you too, if you obey all the rules, can go to a permanent fairyland in the sky.
He deflects from the real question which in this case is “how can anyone sleep for 300+ years” by going on about numerical miracles and the rest of that nonsense. This is a tactic often used by Muslim apologists when faced with a logical dilemma. They just won’t admit that these stories are MYTHS!!!!! 😂😂
Seems like a few strange things happened in caves when it comes to Islam. Abdullah can you please put together a video in which you discuss the websites you use for your Islamic sources? Could you you also in this video show how to best navigate these websites? As a non-computer expert this would be a great help to me and I believe others. Thanks for this video. Stay well and all the best.
"It's 309! Praise allah! Disclaimer* it's 309 if you assume condition A and condition B and condition C are correct" Legit miracle!! I just converted!!
I love that people are saying that this story was copied from earlier mythologies. Amazing how much finds it’s way into the Quran, all old pagan stories. So much scripture is really just recycled older mythology being appropriated.
I had a friend who was eventually diagnosed with severe schizophrenia, she used to go on tangents about numbers she saw on license plates, in books etc. She would assign meaning to these numbers in a delusional way, this reminds me of that. Non sensical.
We know about this well known legend, we even know who wrote it hundreds of years before Mohammad who stole the story and pretended it came to him from Allah. It was attributed to a Jacob of Serugh , a Syriac bishop in around 520 about an event that began around 250 ad about 7 Christian youth who fled from persecution during emperor Decius reign. The legend states that the cave was reopened during the reign of emperor Theodicus II and it was reported that the youth were awakened but died soon after. The emperor had a shrine built for their bodies.
I laughed 86 times, rolled my eyes 91 times, shook my head at the dumbness 53 times, thanked goodness I never had parents who forced me to believe such hilarious crap 77 times, and spit my coffee out 2 times. 86 + 91 + 53 + 77 + 2 = 309! What a divine miracle! It is indeed a sign from Allah!
I was disappointed! Like seriously, can they not find anything real anymore in the Quran? It is like the cover has fallen and they don't even have a fig leaf to cover their awrah!
From Wikipedia The earliest version of this story comes from the Syriac bishop Jacob of Serugh (c. 450-521), which is itself derived from an earlier Greek source, now lost.[6] An outline of this tale appears in the writings of Gregory of Tours (538-594) and in History of the Lombards of Paul the Deacon (720-799).[7] The best-known Western version of the story appears in Jacobus de Voragine's Golden Legend (1259-1266). See BHO (Pueri septem) ##1012-1022;[8] BHG (Pueri VII) ##1593-1599;[9] BHL Dormientes (Septem) Ephesi ##2313-2319.[10]
Excellent post, Abdullah. Shady May be too young to remember Rashad Khalifah’s number 19 miracle which was debunked by many mathematicians, Muslim and non-Muslim. The use of numbers like this also reminds me of the book “The Bible Code.” Lastly, this seems anecdotal. If an Arab atheist converted to Islam I’d like to see a video testimony. Keep posting. Stay gold.
there is a bangla folk tale in which 7 brothers of a sister are turned into deep sleep as champa (magnolia) flowers by a curse cast upon them ... these children were born to a queen of a king who had seven queens ... six queens became jealous when they could not give king an issue but seventh queen gave 8 children ... six queens plotted to bury children and substituted with other animals ... but children reincarnate as champa flowers ... late singer lata mangeshkar has sung a song on this theme: "Saat Bhai Champa Jagore with lyrics | Lata Mangeshkar | Chayanika Mone Rakha Gaan." ... sister flower wakes up from flower-hood slumber herself and her 7 brothers and they live happily ever after
Made ME laugh when you rightly pointed out that he was trying to avoid the word 'numerology' - a most curious refutation of number-based divination, when Muslims have such an obsession with the non-scientific and non-mathematical significance of various numbers.
This reminds me of the guy who said somebody told somebody that heard it from somebody that a woman’s body refused to be buried and then gave a fantastical description of what happened. They spread so many fake stories around it’s actually crazy. They are fake and they hopefully know it but still spread them. I wonder if there’s a specific man who was hired to make up these stories and start the process.
This was a well-know pre-Islamic Christian legend (Sleepers of Ephesus, the earliest version of this story comes from the Syriac bishop Jacob of Serugh, c.?450-521, which is itself derived from an earlier Greek source) that Muhammad adopted. In the original story, when they came out of the cave, there were crosses on the buildings and the Roman Empire was Christian, Muhammad of course omits this part of the story. Why doesn't this Muslim mention any of this? This story is well known to Christian scholars.
The doubts of the guy were "answered" by the "miracle" for the following reason: His doubt was essentially that a miraculous event cannot happen. Presuming atheism, of course they cannot. So at base, it is a question of "Does God exist, and if so, can He act in the world?" This directly addresses the fundamental problem, as if one buys the argument then it implies that God does act in the world (ie in inspiring the Quran), and hence miraculous acts (like making the sleepers sleep/live for so long) would be possible for the Allah of the Quran. The "biological feasibility" of such a thing, while problematic for the atheist, is not problematic for the Muslim, as the Muslim believes that miracles are possible. Since it is a story of a miracle.
Lmao! I saw that vid for the first time last night and then went to confirm it myself Took 5 mins using the Quran Arabic Corpus because every word is numbered - 278 words. Edit; And also found that the word is used heavily all throughout the Quran lol
14:18 I don't think you thought that part through. Verse numbering doesn't matter for this specific example that he gives bc it is based on word counts between the words. You could remove all the verse numbering and it would still be the same. What you should have been showing is if there were any additional or removed words, within the relevant section that is being counted, when comparing between the different versions/qira'at of the Qur'an ... and there are 20 that are now accepted as authoritative. [Including "waw" as separate word, like he says]. Then you would have had something. On top of that, no one claims that the verse divisions are part of the revelation ie that the Prophet numbered the verses. That came later, people added them. Generally you have the Basran count vs the Kufan count which goes back to alSulami. And looking at the comments here just confirms for me to not take the praise or agreements I see in the comments section of my own channel very seriously. Very few, unfortunately, comment/think critically about the content their favourite content producers put out. You either find majority praise (since they are your subscribers), which you don't always know is well thought out ... or minority criticism based in lack of understanding/attention which is just wrong or due to the ideology and former conclusions of the person commenting. Very few comments actually critically engage with accurate information. That's become a general rule of thumb for me wrt RUclips comments section ... since it is certainly true on nearly every other channel, it is likely true on mine even if I can't notice it because I'm "too close". So just some friendly advice; don't take praise in it agreement in your comments section too seriously lest it warp your perceptions. It's always an echo-chamber And honestly, I don't see the issue. If the numerology is true, and he is convinced that it is a sign that the Qur'an is from God, and that sparked a return to emaan (of course it won't be this alone, but it may lead to considering/accepting other arguments - I mean right now if he is a Muslim it won't be bc of this alone) then with belief in God miracles are possible. It is ludicrous to argue against miracles using science which is the study and establishment of the non-miraculous norms. It just comes down to it you believe God exists or not, and if so, does He allow miracles to be performed/happen. Science and biology don't go into it. God makes the rules. So "all bets are of" I mean to say; this scientifically can't happen so it should be obvious that this religion is not from God ??? That is one of the strangest statements. As if your idea of God is beholden and confined by science. Very bizarre. I think you need to gain a more depth into the reasons people gain/lose faith. You are thinking about it all wrong imho.
It is surprising that there are still people who believe such silly stories that Muhammad said that the mountains were fixed like nails so that the earth would not move.
It's the 21st century. Things like this just can't fly now. An english speaking audience would want real evidence which he can't provide. He will probably loose more of the followers who are relying on him to explain his book while trying to sell his religion. As always a good video AS.
As a Jew about the years that counted in hundreds there is an assumption that in the past they count years differently from now days. There are two other explanations. I forgot them.
It's not impossible for someone to write a story with the intention of engineering it to have a certain word count. If it's worth the trouble to someone to match the word count with a significant number in a story, in order to create an apparent miracle, it can be done. Every editor knows this. In the case of this story, however, with the counting of pairs of words as single words, it seems the "discoverers" of this miracle found a way to massage the text into the miracle they were looking for.
I find it interesting that Islamic propagandists will dismiss and denigrate Christian stories when it doesn't match their desired narrative but will defend them vigorously when found in the Qur'an. Very convenient.
An Arab Atheist had "A" problem with the Quran? One? Singular? Well, gosh darn if that don't ring my skeptic bell. I'd be embarrassed for a child if they made a lame apologistic argument like this while sitting with other children at the kiddie table. (sad child emoji).
Actually, it is 618.5 lunar years. -------- Actual calcuation if you are interested --------- To convert 600 solar years into lunar years, you need to account for the difference in length between a solar year and a lunar year. A solar year (the time it takes for the Earth to orbit the Sun) is approximately 365.25 days, while a lunar year (based on the cycles of the moon) is about 354.37 days. Here are the steps to convert solar years to lunar years: Determine the number of days in 600 solar years: 600×365.25=219,150 days Convert the total number of days into lunar years by dividing by the length of a lunar year: 219,150 / 354.37 ≈ 618.5 lunar years So, 600 solar years is approximately 618.5 lunar years.
Thanks for the video. I don’t doubt that an atheist could have become a Muslim based on numerological claims, such as the one mentioned, but it is illogical to believe a text is rational based on numerological claims. The text itself and the meaning thereof is what needs to be evaluated
But why is it so hard to think that someone could add this clever little Easter egg? It seems that even the addition of saying, "300 and add 9" made the word count be 309 as if it just said "309" it would it have been enough words.. this really goes to show that the person who wrote this passage was trying to extend the words for thus little trick ...but it's so easy to do and poets nowadays use this as a literary device all the time ..why does it mean it came from god??
Maybe the atheist left Islam when they read the verse before, and now they read the next verse they are back to Islam. What a delicate position this Muslim was in.
one atheist criticized the prophet's marriage to safiyyah muslim said, this critic must be atheists (they assumed the critic is atheist, but I'm pretty familiar with the critic, I knew he was an atheist), cause Christian will respect Muslim's belief, because even the seven sleepers story is in the Holy Bible And I said, we have Letter to Ephesians from Paul, not Seven Sleepers of the Ephesus in the holy bible
I do not think my opinion matters on this. When it comes to belief I think it's really important to find out what is important to that particular person and talk to them from that angle. Find their key to belief and address that. In this case a person needed a pattern (mathematic-like) "miracle" to convince them to belief in a belief they were skeptical of at one point; if the story is to be believed. To me, this seems to be an emotional conversion disguised as a "logical" one.
Mostly I try and find the comical side when I am confronted by all cultist crap. But there is a downright tragic side to it when you realize what this delusion depraves many of in the one life they have to live and even worse, when they try and propagate their crap.
Source, Wikipedia Islamic accounts, including the Qur'an, give a sleep of 309 years. These are presumably lunar years, which would make it 300 solar years. Qur'an 18:25 says, "And they remained in their cave for three hundred years and exceeded by nine.
The Romans believed grammar, rhetoric and language was a science connected to mathematics and music. The Romans often encoded numerical ciphers into poems . This tradition is super ancient, and can be found in Homer and in ancient Indian spiritual texts such as the Gita. . If I were writing a religious scripture, I would certainly encode these kind of eloquent touches in my scripture (if I were to write one). . The ring structures found in the Koran (are found in the New testament book of Mark). What does it prove? The ancients encoded extremely beautiful structures into their religious writings. We have a technical word for this - Chiasmus. All this shows is that the Arabs were saturated in Greek, and Roman learning... But who wants to admit these little inconveniences? Nobody! Let's just say the Prophet was illiterate, and Arabia was a Godless, Pagan backwater until the spreading of Islam. Was it really like that? Or, had Roman culture seeped into Arabia along the Caravan trading roots? Why does Allah insist on Roman forms of punishment for misconduct such as crucifixion? Suspicious... . All this shows is that the Koran is structured using traditional, ''poetic devices'' and ''forms'' that had been around for a good thousand years before the Prophet. . On another point, Sir Isaac Newton believed that Homer had encoded secrets of metallurgy into the Homeric epics. He created a purple coloured alloy that had a textured, netted-looking surface. The quote he used to work out how to mix this metal had references to ocean and nets.... He believed there was a science in Homer that needed to be deciphered. For me, that is a super wow! During Roman times Homer was the sacred scripture that was used to teach students Koine Greek - St Paul would have learnt Homer. Also the book of Mark used a chiasmic structure (as does the Koran) and the author of Mark was knowledgeable in Homer... . Sir Isaac Newton was fascinated with the codes in the Bible - a super ancient science called gematria that uses the values of letters and numbers to decipher secret meanings in sacred writings. Are we seeing a pattern here? I hope so! Cross cultural pollination is the source of this divine and mysterious text - the Koran... . Of cause there are numerical keys in the Koran - but this tradition is already very ancient by the time of the birth of Mohamad!!!
It's probably based on the story of a bunch of people who found a treasure in a cave and tried to use the gold and/ or silver coins from it and got caught. When they were being questioned where did they get such old gold and silver from, they made up a story that they had been sleeping for hundred or so years and from there it probably went on to become a legend.
I also heard a very identical story about Some who Slept In a cave Many many years. if it was a TV program or similar. so the question is maybe this story was first written in the Koran or in some other Scripture first
I can’t remember the number but there is a minimum number of letters/words to use numerology. The Bible code works for the telephone directory too or the works of Charles Dickens. It’s a parlour game.
Except that story is a well known Christian story that was written to give hope to Christians. It was made up and no Christian ever believed it actually happened. You know how we’ve got marvel movies and stuff now? That’s what this story is, a story made up for entertainment and for teaching.
It’s easier to fool people than to convince them they’ve been fooled.
Mark Twain
That's so so true.
Ironically you don’t know how much that mark twain quote applies to you. But dogmatic atheist western view makes you think your 100 % right
The story of 7 sleepers which was written by a Persian priest, and it found its way into the Qurans
Ah shoot I forgot to talk about this point...
Hadiths, like always, only count when it helps their narrative, and don't count when it paints them in a bad light
It was a bishop from the levante (too lazy to look it up now) 🙂
@@FriendlyExmuslim My friend don't forget as follows: It is really mind boggling. First of all those sleepers should be Christian believing in the Trinity and the Trinity is condemned in Islam as Sherik or paganism so why the Quran described them as true believer's fleeing the infidels?
@lastchaiwala - you're stupid, It's found in the Hebrew Bible, you tit!
The legend of the Seven Sleepers is an ancient Christian myth about seven people from Ephesus who slept in a mountain in response to Roman persecution in 250AD. They slept for 300 years until one of them went out to find the whole town fully Christianized.
The Quran corrupted this verse more than 300 years later. You can see the irony now.
Apparently this myth has even older, pagan roots.
It is really mind boggling. First of all those sleepers should be Christian believing in the Trinity and the Trinity is condemned in Islam as Sherik or paganism so why the Quran described them as true believer's fleeing the infidels?
@@thebeautyofthesoul5081 again, it's a Christian myth that was misquoted in the Quran. There's even a dog that slept with the Sleepers. And their identity and circumstances were never mentioned in the Bible. The Codex Vaticanus which was the oldest Bible manuscript to ever exist, was made only around 300AD.
Maybe 309 years later?
Aaah, but the ones in the Christian story slept for only 300 years but in Islam they slept for 300 AND NINE years!! So THERE! CHECKMATE!! Haha!
The Christian seven sleepers’s story was the one that made me open up my eyes and went into the rabbit hole how the Quran plagiarised so many stories, Hebrew Bible, New Testament, Zoroastrian etc.
Cave of treasures. Apocalypse of Abraham. Targum Sheba 😂 is full of fables
It’s just one long game of telephone. Sumerian beliefs and ideas carried to early Semitic ones into Judaism, Judaism and Greco-Roman myths into Christianity, then down to Islam and so forth. Parallels to Egyptian beliefs found peppered along the way. The monotheistic tradition evolves and operates exactly the way that transmission chains do.
@@thestarseeker8196 I've even read that the first practitioners of circumcisions were the Polytheist Ancient Egyptians...
How dare you! It was obviously revealed only to the prophet!
@@jakeryker546 you're stupid, It's found in the Hebrew Bible, you tit!
Some non practicing Muslim think they are atheist. Atheism is not about skipping some Salah and other practices.
Most of them become religious as they age.
Another joker who thought he was an atheist started practicing his religion again. That's it.
Or an entirely concoted person to try to bolster his arguments.
Not only that, but many men will wander away, and then be drawn back to islam for a variety of reasons, yet with my favorite being the promises of an entirely heathen jannah(islamic heaven), where each and every one of his physical and sexual desires is met... and he will be treated as a king~harem and all. It is not so for women.
A question for all muslims.
Why on earth(no pun intended) would islamic "heaven" cater to the physical needs of man(food, wine, fancy green robes etc) and the sexual needs of man.? This realm is the one wherein we require food and drink, clothing, so why do we look for it in heaven.? And why the promises of sex, not only from your endless harem, but from the jinn and the "beautiful and/or fair serving boys".?
Heaven is the next place, one where we will be lifted up and made clean and new, where we will ascend and worship our Creator.... yet muhammads heaven was all about the base instinct of feeding his sexual addiction.
How can it not be so clear to any muslim who has been in their own sources.?!.... that's right, approximately 90% of muslims have absolutely ZERO clue as to the contents of any one of their own qur'ans and haddiths....and yes, despite the fallacious claims to the contrary, there are multiple DIFFERENT Arabic qur'ans.
I could go on and on, but I shall digress. Anyone seeking truth would be amply occupied searching out those points alone... and as you go, you come to find out each and every fallacy, each and every plagiarized sentence, each and every made up surah and the incredibly detailed description of muhammad, including his sexual perversions, his abhorrent hygiene, his medical/psychological issues, his days as a warlord, a rapist, a raider and a pedophile.
Yup, more than enough in this one post for any honest muslim to seek truth on, yet so many will not simply out of fear.
hhhh does atheism has rules? who set them? and based on what ? hhhhh
If the book was so mathematically miraculous, perhaps it should not have made a mathematical mistake in distribution of inheritance. For certain scenarios, you end up with percentages of inheritance not adding up to 100%.
show me why distribution of inheritance did not come to ,100% or of cant you are a liar.
And l see 9 lies at your comment including this retard in this video.
@@hussinmahmood3222 Prove to me Sunan Ibn Majah 4337 is wrong & i will convert.
I learnt Faraidh when I was young and now I am an engineer, never failed in Math and I swear there is no mistake in inheritance distribution. Allah is Great. Al-Quran is the Truth Book from Allah.
@@efaizariff3145 Your logic is derived from a vile, licentious, psychotic 7th century warlord. It is like saying Einstein was a genius because he studied the Torah. 😅
I remember a shaikh who was asked by a student about lying and making stories for dawah. he said no problem with that and sometimes its recommended and most of us do that, , yesterday I was sitting with people and they were chatting about an atheist lady went to mecca and couldnt see the structure ( kaba ), it was not visible to her because she was an atheist, an atheist who went to do hajj 🙂
Haha 😄 🤣 😂 😆 😄 🤣 laughing alot. This was just incredibly funny.
Non-muslims can’t go to Mecca
How about the story of a poor Muslim living in the west because he wasn't looking at beautiful woman Allah rewarded him and he became rich owning his own company.. 😂
Why is an atheist even allowed into Mecca?
@@Kafirman666it doesn’t sounds like Allah rewarding people for not indulging in his sexual desires. I think it’s the opposite Allah would want Muslims to r@pe them.
7:35 the reason he can't say numerology is because if his followers search about it, they will quickly find more impressive numerology in other religious scriptures and even non-religious books. If I am not wrong, Jewish Rabbis have been using these on their scriptures more extensively than it has been done on Quran. It's something that impresses the most impressionable minds.
Gematria is what Jews have been using for over 2000 years
Correct
Not only Jewish Rabbis with the Torah codes, but also many other theologians have applied such to the entirety of the biblical scriptures.... and, it is absolutely astounding, to be certain.
I don't think it is good to assume motive...what he is doing is NOT what is commonly referred to as numerology. Numerology involves the number value of letters/words. As in, this letter has the value 1, this letter has the value 5, etc. In ie Hebrew the letters have numerical value. Numerology also exists in other languages -- for instance, much is made in the Bahai Faith about 19 being the value of the word wahid.
What he is doing is counting the number of times a word appears and sees that there is an unrealized correspondence between the count and the story in which the word appears.
@@1001011011010 Marriam Webster: numerology
noun
nu·mer·ol·o·gy ˌnü-mə-ˈrä-lə-jē ˌnyü-
: the study of the occult significance of numbers
occult
2 of 3
adjective
oc·cult ə-ˈkəlt ä-; ˈä-ˌkəlt
1
: not revealed : SECRET
deep subterranean occult jealousy
-J. C. Powys
2
: not easily apprehended or understood : ABSTRUSE, MYSTERIOUS
occult matters like nuclear physics, radiation effects and the designing of rockets
-Robert Bendiner
3
: hidden from view : CONCEALED
This perfectly reflects what is being practiced
I know a guy who became an atheist from the following process:
He took the number of letters in the statement "god is not real" and subtracted the number of letters in the word "religion".
He was left with the number 4, which just so happens to be the number of words in the first statement.
I don't think he ever fully recovered from that epiphany.
A miracle from the God of atheism. 😮😂
Subhanal... Huh? I STUFF ALLAH HOW DARE YOU INSULT MY HOLEY 🧀 QURAN
Seven Sleepers of Ephesus was already a well known Christian mythical story written in Syriac years before Islam.
I'll go by the same muslim logic- He wasn't an atheist to begin with. Just an attention seeking conspiracy theorist waiting for conformation bias and surprised himself. 😊
😂
I love how these scholarly Imams speak so intelligently, and logically build their case until the last second they make a crazy turn to reach their goal.
Four has four letters. 😱 OMG! I just wrote a four word sentence about the number four having four letters! The sentence has five syllables, but that's fine because 5 is also a holy number - Allah, Quran, Islam are all words with 5 letters! Alhamdulillah!
he calls it "A miracle".
we call it "A coincidence".
and copy paste of jewish tall tales for kids.
Not even a coincidence but a cherry picking of data to make it fit.
@@FriendlyExmuslimf the story came from an earlier source, it is also possible that the original author deliberately designed the words in a numerological way. There might be a design in this, but of human origin.
But to be fair atheist call nearly everything a coincidence. Like the existence of the universe. How likely is it that everything exist because it happened randomly? If gravity was a little bit stronger everything would change. Life may be not possible and surely not like the life right now.
If you look at the universe you see that a creator is more likely than "it happened on its own". And there are so many signs in the Quran. There are so many more numerical miracles. And so many prophecies. The literacy on his own is a miracle. No one could write a similar verse of the Quran.
To ignore this many "coincidences" is for me a sign of ignorance. Even if the people could see miracles with their own eyes they still wouldn't believe because their hearts are blind.
May Allah guide you all.
Recently someone in a comments section online offered to show me a "miracle" - yes, miracle - in the Qur'an that would probably make me believe.
Like a fool, I agreed, whereupon he quoted something about the universe expanding. How could mere mortals at that time have known the universe was expanding, he demanded to know.
I pointed out that there were only three possibilities - the universe was either expanding, contracting or staying the same size - so the odds were actually two to one that a mere _guess_ would be right: half as "miraculous", in fact, as predicting a rolled die.
He never replied.
I remember - decades ago - when my Sunday school teacher told me about this great pastor who was visiting Iraq (where I was living) from another country, and she quoted him, answering those who didn't believe in the story of Jonah (the guy who was swallowed by the whale and remained inside it for 3 days), as saying "if the bible said it was the whale who swallowed Jonah, I would have believed it too.
At the time I was like wow, what great faith ..
I learned a lot since then.
I still believe in God and in some parts of Christianity, but I don't feel that I have to accept everything.
The bible doesn't say whale though. It said a big fish/beast
Jesus is NOT about Religion
@RituDhasmana Thank you.
Thank you.
honestly i had to start with wikipedia to find out what Sanatana is.
did you mean learn about Hinduism in general? (I'm sorry I really don't know anything, though for a while I've wanted to learn). Is there anything specific you suggest I look up? (otherwise I'll just go with youtube recommendations).
wish you the best.
Which is respectable but i invite you brother to research Christianity more , you will find that there is very convincing Archeological evidence for a lot of things and a lot of prophecies fulfilled in real time , i was blown away when i read about the archeological evidence of the story in Isaiah which talks about the army that God defeated , Historians still have 0 idea how those men died overnight and the narrative in Isaiah is the only plausible one, the bible is insanely accurate about the places and events it describes , so why can't the miraculous ones be accurate as well , it gets the other things absolutely correct why is it that we still can't trust it when it comes to the miraculous events ????
Muslim being a Muslim…Dawah 101
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
@@theguyver4934 lol no one cares. islam is garbage one way or the other. you guys need to stfu. it doesn't matter whether christianity is false or not, islam is not just false it's garbage.
@theguyver4934
Why deflect? What do you say to people who reject both Islam and Christianity because of the incredulous nonsense in the books? Then what?
@@theguyver4934stop lying I'm a Christian we have manuscripts dating to the first century.
@@theguyver4934 why do you suddenly went off topic and bring Christianity all of the sudden bro? Why do you spread misinformations about early Judaism?.
The imams in Old Testament weren't even vegetarians wth. They ate sheeps, goats, deers, etc. You guys however eat haram/non kosher meats such as cows, camels and rabbits thus making y'all disobedient to the law of Torah lol. I'm not even religious bruh
The Real problem is that : This story is copied from an old Christian myth
Not a real problem, Abrahamics copy from eachother, and it´s widely known. Let´s teject them all.
What you call copying is Actually Reviving it and why Qur'an Does not have the mistakes Which the Bible has.
@@Faraz___z Because the quran twisted and even sometimes misquoted those stories.
@@johnbaljian295 show me What twisting and misquoting is there why are not too verses of the Qur'an not Contradicting each other and verses in the Bible do I can show you many differences Someone Who is copying will atleast copy One mistake from it and Also He Recited the Qur'an And the history says people use to hear it And write it someone All of a sudden without practice can recite such texts Without any mistake and Also The Qur'an says produce and A verse like it if what you say is true Can you think someone who is Copying will give such a challenge
The Bible was in Aramaic how can An Arab Translate the Bible and copy it so accurately and history says he could not read or Write.
“If you look hard enough you’ll find amazing things”. Funny, because to find terrible things you don’t have to look hard at all.
New subscriber here, you do excellent work and your commentary is extremely entertaining. Thanks for the excellent content.
Much appreciated!
Thanks for this video brother! I had a chat with a colleague and I was telling him that there are different versions of the quran. Which he denied, but i didnt know how to look for them. Now i know. Would be great if you add your references on the description please!
No this is pathetic if you don't know don't say it learn Arabic then prove it Muslims will never ACCEPT a video as proof
I told a Muslim his prophet married and raped a little girl and he denied it
I love seeing you upload videos on RUclips more often now. ❤
Imagine the disaster if these types of numerologic arguments would be valid for an academy or university .
I literally laughed thru the video.
And Muslims gonna call it a scientific miracle.
No
I wouldn't be surprised. One Muslim in a comments section online offered to show me a "miracle" - yes, miracle - in the Qur'an that would probably make me believe.
Like a fool, I agreed, whereupon he quoted something about the universe expanding. How could mere mortals at that time have known the universe was expanding, he demanded to know.
I pointed out that there were only three possibilities - the universe was either expanding, contracting or staying the same size - so the odds were actually two to one that a mere _guess_ would be right: half as "miraculous", in fact, as predicting a rolled die.
He never replied.
@@joshuakohlmann9731 but what are the odd that there are so many right predictions? And not one contradiction or mistakes? Sure a man can be right about somethings but not everything
@@jaa24327 I don't know what the odds are, because I don't know how many correct predictions there are; I haven't read the Qur'an.
@@joshuakohlmann9731 then why don't you read it?
How can a rational person prefer a coincidental numerological appearance over the actual content of the text. The text is saying utter nonsense, but because of word counts the nonsense should be believed? It's ridiculous. I am, btw, at a point where no miracle can persuade me that Islam is true. As a radical naturalist, I also think that real miracles are impossible.
I’m so amazed at how many Islamic scholars from Indonesia today have openly told with what the Quran actually says, despite the various threats they have received from other scholars.
Hi Sameer, Could you make a video on Zayd Ibn Amr and how he influenced Muhammad to leave idol worship.
Could be interesting
"Sleeping Beauty" and her entire kingdom slept for just a century. "Rip Van Winkle" slept for a mere 20 years. They both were under magic spells. Also, if you were to visit fairyland for a couple of weeks, then return to this world, you would find that many years have gone by and everyone you knew is long dead. The religious sleeper stories seem to be related to this idea. Not just kids but plenty of older people love magical fantasy stories and want to believe some of them are really true. The religious stories promise that you too, if you obey all the rules, can go to a permanent fairyland in the sky.
It is surprising that there are still people who believe such nonsense that Muhammad said that the stars were to throw Satan
Or Adam & Eve
He deflects from the real question which in this case is “how can anyone sleep for 300+ years” by going on about numerical miracles and the rest of that nonsense. This is a tactic often used by Muslim apologists when faced with a logical dilemma. They just won’t admit that these stories are MYTHS!!!!! 😂😂
Seems like a few strange things happened in caves when it comes to Islam.
Abdullah can you please put together a video in which you discuss the websites you use for your Islamic sources? Could you you also in this video show how to best navigate these websites? As a non-computer expert this would be a great help to me and I believe others. Thanks for this video. Stay well and all the best.
Yeah I could do that for sure. A lot of it is in my head but I could discuss my sources. My blog is a good one and there are a few others
"It's 309! Praise allah! Disclaimer* it's 309 if you assume condition A and condition B and condition C are correct"
Legit miracle!!
I just converted!!
Also, yeeeh... this story never happened.
I love that people are saying that this story was copied from earlier mythologies. Amazing how much finds it’s way into the Quran, all old pagan stories. So much scripture is really just recycled older mythology being appropriated.
May peace be upon you, brother Abdullah ❤
Absolute (i.e true) peace is upon bhai Sameer, not allah's peace (which is relative).
I had a friend who was eventually diagnosed with severe schizophrenia, she used to go on tangents about numbers she saw on license plates, in books etc. She would assign meaning to these numbers in a delusional way, this reminds me of that. Non sensical.
I really like you coz of your positive attitude
Thank you
Seven sleepers adalah kisah apokrifa kristen arab yang sudah ada diabad 5, tepatnya di turki
That story was around way before Islam. It was told during time of Byzantine Empire
7 sleepers FAIRY TALES become the word of allah, thats the miracles of islam 🤣🤣🤣
We know about this well known legend, we even know who wrote it hundreds of years before Mohammad who stole the story and pretended it came to him from Allah. It was attributed to a Jacob of Serugh , a Syriac bishop in around 520 about an event that began around 250 ad about 7 Christian youth who fled from persecution during emperor Decius reign. The legend states that the cave was reopened during the reign of emperor Theodicus II and it was reported that the youth were awakened but died soon after. The emperor had a shrine built for their bodies.
I see lot of bots on Muslim channel in comments section of every video be like
"Alhamdulillah I am a muslim revert this video is great inshallah "
Yeah they love it. It’s so desperate
If Muhammad believed it, it must be true. No Muslim would dare question Islam's only prophet.
A video on the trocerdero in central london becoming a mosque. Keep up the good work
Alhamd, the mathematics throughout the Quran are very interesting. Just another layer to the deepest text in existence.
I laughed 86 times, rolled my eyes 91 times, shook my head at the dumbness 53 times, thanked goodness I never had parents who forced me to believe such hilarious crap 77 times, and spit my coffee out 2 times.
86 + 91 + 53 + 77 + 2 = 309!
What a divine miracle! It is indeed a sign from Allah!
@user-gm2pt1xe9o To live a life dedicated to ethics, virtue, and goodness to all.
I was disappointed! Like seriously, can they not find anything real anymore in the Quran? It is like the cover has fallen and they don't even have a fig leaf to cover their awrah!
From Wikipedia
The earliest version of this story comes from the Syriac bishop Jacob of Serugh (c. 450-521), which is itself derived from an earlier Greek source, now lost.[6] An outline of this tale appears in the writings of Gregory of Tours (538-594) and in History of the Lombards of Paul the Deacon (720-799).[7] The best-known Western version of the story appears in Jacobus de Voragine's Golden Legend (1259-1266). See BHO (Pueri septem) ##1012-1022;[8] BHG (Pueri VII) ##1593-1599;[9] BHL Dormientes (Septem) Ephesi ##2313-2319.[10]
Excellent post, Abdullah. Shady May be too young to remember Rashad Khalifah’s number 19 miracle which was debunked by many mathematicians, Muslim and non-Muslim. The use of numbers like this also reminds me of the book “The Bible Code.” Lastly, this seems anecdotal. If an Arab atheist converted to Islam I’d like to see a video testimony. Keep posting. Stay gold.
For Arabs, islam is their culture that's nothing wrong with them practicing it.
there is a bangla folk tale in which 7 brothers of a sister are turned into deep sleep as champa (magnolia) flowers by a curse cast upon them ... these children were born to a queen of a king who had seven queens ... six queens became jealous when they could not give king an issue but seventh queen gave 8 children ... six queens plotted to bury children and substituted with other animals ... but children reincarnate as champa flowers ... late singer lata mangeshkar has sung a song on this theme: "Saat Bhai Champa Jagore with lyrics | Lata Mangeshkar | Chayanika Mone Rakha Gaan." ... sister flower wakes up from flower-hood slumber herself and her 7 brothers and they live happily ever after
Made ME laugh when you rightly pointed out that he was trying to avoid the word 'numerology' - a most curious refutation of number-based divination, when Muslims have such an obsession with the non-scientific and non-mathematical significance of various numbers.
He got threatened of being killed and "came back" to Islam. Subhanallah.
😂😂
How is "and add 9 years" nine words in arabic?
You make me laugh xD its a great way to lighten the mood. Couldnt stop laughing towards the end.
This reminds me of the guy who said somebody told somebody that heard it from somebody that a woman’s body refused to be buried and then gave a fantastical description of what happened. They spread so many fake stories around it’s actually crazy. They are fake and they hopefully know it but still spread them. I wonder if there’s a specific man who was hired to make up these stories and start the process.
Islam is not true said a man and slept for 12 years.
As you see, it is 12 words in the sentence so it must be true!! It's truly a miracle. 😯🤯
This was a well-know pre-Islamic Christian legend (Sleepers of Ephesus, the earliest version of this story comes from the Syriac bishop Jacob of Serugh, c.?450-521, which is itself derived from an earlier Greek source) that Muhammad adopted. In the original story, when they came out of the cave, there were crosses on the buildings and the Roman Empire was Christian, Muhammad of course omits this part of the story. Why doesn't this Muslim mention any of this? This story is well known to Christian scholars.
The doubts of the guy were "answered" by the "miracle" for the following reason:
His doubt was essentially that a miraculous event cannot happen. Presuming atheism, of course they cannot. So at base, it is a question of "Does God exist, and if so, can He act in the world?"
This directly addresses the fundamental problem, as if one buys the argument then it implies that God does act in the world (ie in inspiring the Quran), and hence miraculous acts (like making the sleepers sleep/live for so long) would be possible for the Allah of the Quran.
The "biological feasibility" of such a thing, while problematic for the atheist, is not problematic for the Muslim, as the Muslim believes that miracles are possible. Since it is a story of a miracle.
The Bible has a ton of coincidences like this.
So does many other books.
8m sure that atheist was born with a massive zabeeba
Lmao! I saw that vid for the first time last night and then went to confirm it myself
Took 5 mins using the Quran Arabic Corpus because every word is numbered - 278 words.
Edit; And also found that the word is used heavily all throughout the Quran lol
haha yeah
Please update us on the status of Abdullah Gondal.
He's doing well.
14:18 I don't think you thought that part through. Verse numbering doesn't matter for this specific example that he gives bc it is based on word counts between the words. You could remove all the verse numbering and it would still be the same. What you should have been showing is if there were any additional or removed words, within the relevant section that is being counted, when comparing between the different versions/qira'at of the Qur'an ... and there are 20 that are now accepted as authoritative. [Including "waw" as separate word, like he says]. Then you would have had something.
On top of that, no one claims that the verse divisions are part of the revelation ie that the Prophet numbered the verses. That came later, people added them. Generally you have the Basran count vs the Kufan count which goes back to alSulami.
And looking at the comments here just confirms for me to not take the praise or agreements I see in the comments section of my own channel very seriously. Very few, unfortunately, comment/think critically about the content their favourite content producers put out. You either find majority praise (since they are your subscribers), which you don't always know is well thought out ... or minority criticism based in lack of understanding/attention which is just wrong or due to the ideology and former conclusions of the person commenting.
Very few comments actually critically engage with accurate information. That's become a general rule of thumb for me wrt RUclips comments section ... since it is certainly true on nearly every other channel, it is likely true on mine even if I can't notice it because I'm "too close". So just some friendly advice; don't take praise in it agreement in your comments section too seriously lest it warp your perceptions. It's always an echo-chamber
And honestly, I don't see the issue. If the numerology is true, and he is convinced that it is a sign that the Qur'an is from God, and that sparked a return to emaan (of course it won't be this alone, but it may lead to considering/accepting other arguments - I mean right now if he is a Muslim it won't be bc of this alone) then with belief in God miracles are possible. It is ludicrous to argue against miracles using science which is the study and establishment of the non-miraculous norms. It just comes down to it you believe God exists or not, and if so, does He allow miracles to be performed/happen. Science and biology don't go into it. God makes the rules. So "all bets are of"
I mean to say; this scientifically can't happen so it should be obvious that this religion is not from God
??? That is one of the strangest statements. As if your idea of God is beholden and confined by science. Very bizarre.
I think you need to gain a more depth into the reasons people gain/lose faith. You are thinking about it all wrong imho.
It is surprising that there are still people who believe such silly stories that Muhammad said that the mountains were fixed like nails so that the earth would not move.
I believe in this guy's story about that atheist " returning to islam" about as much I believe in people being able to live for 309 years
It was only 309 MINUTES but felt like 309 YEARS. Same like sitting in a blazing inferno. A second would feel like LIFETIME!!!
The surahs and verses are all mixed up...many verses and surahs are missing according to hadiths.
It's the 21st century. Things like this just can't fly now. An english speaking audience would want real evidence which he can't provide. He will probably loose more of the followers who are relying on him to explain his book while trying to sell his religion. As always a good video AS.
As a Jew about the years that counted in hundreds there is an assumption that in the past they count years differently from now days.
There are two other explanations. I forgot them.
It's not impossible for someone to write a story with the intention of engineering it to have a certain word count. If it's worth the trouble to someone to match the word count with a significant number in a story, in order to create an apparent miracle, it can be done.
Every editor knows this.
In the case of this story, however, with the counting of pairs of words as single words, it seems the "discoverers" of this miracle found a way to massage the text into the miracle they were looking for.
Wait till he discovers that there is a talking snowman in Frozen!
Curve fitting strategy :P
Ali Dawah , Hamza Tzortzis etc. say the there are NO SCIENTIFIC MIRACLES in the stupid quran. And I agree !
I find it interesting that Islamic propagandists will dismiss and denigrate Christian stories when it doesn't match their desired narrative but will defend them vigorously when found in the Qur'an. Very convenient.
An Arab Atheist had "A" problem with the Quran? One? Singular?
Well, gosh darn if that don't ring my skeptic bell.
I'd be embarrassed for a child if they made a lame apologistic argument like this while sitting with other children at the kiddie table. (sad child emoji).
I eyerolled 309 times when he was speaking. So this must be why Im an exmuslim.
300 solar years is 309 lunar years. That’s why the Quran says 300 + 9 years
Actually, it is 618.5 lunar years.
-------- Actual calcuation if you are interested ---------
To convert 600 solar years into lunar years, you need to account for the difference in length between a solar year and a lunar year. A solar year (the time it takes for the Earth to orbit the Sun) is approximately 365.25 days, while a lunar year (based on the cycles of the moon) is about 354.37 days.
Here are the steps to convert solar years to lunar years:
Determine the number of days in 600 solar years:
600×365.25=219,150 days
Convert the total number of days into lunar years by dividing by the length of a lunar year:
219,150 / 354.37 ≈ 618.5 lunar years
So, 600 solar years is approximately 618.5 lunar years.
@@kyoungd
300 solar years = 309,20436267177 lunar years
try doing it yourself kid by converting 300 Gregorian years on website 'convertunits'
@@kyoungd 300 solar years is 309,20436267177 lunar years.
@@kyoungd 300 solar years is 309 lunar years. That’s why the Quran says 300 + 9 years
You are right. 300 solar year is 309 lunar years.
"Her name was "law la", she was a show girl, with yellow feathers in her hair and a dress cut down to there." - Copacabana, Barry Manilow.
Thanks for the video. I don’t doubt that an atheist could have become a Muslim based on numerological claims, such as the one mentioned, but it is illogical to believe a text is rational based on numerological claims. The text itself and the meaning thereof is what needs to be evaluated
But why is it so hard to think that someone could add this clever little Easter egg? It seems that even the addition of saying, "300 and add 9" made the word count be 309 as if it just said "309" it would it have been enough words.. this really goes to show that the person who wrote this passage was trying to extend the words for thus little trick ...but it's so easy to do and poets nowadays use this as a literary device all the time ..why does it mean it came from god??
I wonder what is the actual number of the words when counted HONESTLY.
The story of the atheist is probably a lie. As usual, these miracles (making a murtad revert is a miracle) are never sourced.
Sleeping implies not eating or drinking. The metric is then not how long can a human live, but how long can a human live without food and water.
Maybe the atheist left Islam when they read the verse before, and now they read the next verse they are back to Islam.
What a delicate position this Muslim was in.
one atheist criticized the prophet's marriage to safiyyah
muslim said, this critic must be atheists (they assumed the critic is atheist, but I'm pretty familiar with the critic, I knew he was an atheist), cause Christian will respect Muslim's belief, because even the seven sleepers story is in the Holy Bible
And I said, we have Letter to Ephesians from Paul, not Seven Sleepers of the Ephesus in the holy bible
I do not think my opinion matters on this. When it comes to belief I think it's really important to find out what is important to that particular person and talk to them from that angle. Find their key to belief and address that. In this case a person needed a pattern (mathematic-like) "miracle" to convince them to belief in a belief they were skeptical of at one point; if the story is to be believed. To me, this seems to be an emotional conversion disguised as a "logical" one.
Thank you
That´s crazy what makes people to believe total non-senses.
Mostly I try and find the comical side when I am confronted by all cultist crap.
But there is a downright tragic side to it when you realize what this delusion depraves many of in the one life they have to live and even worse, when they try and propagate their crap.
Source, Wikipedia
Islamic accounts, including the Qur'an, give a sleep of 309 years. These are presumably lunar years, which would make it 300 solar years. Qur'an 18:25 says, "And they remained in their cave for three hundred years and exceeded by nine.
Really scraping the barrel. You know they have nothing to support their claims if they have to resort to this.
The Romans believed grammar, rhetoric and language was a science connected to mathematics and music. The Romans often encoded numerical ciphers into poems . This tradition is super ancient, and can be found in Homer and in ancient Indian spiritual texts such as the Gita.
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If I were writing a religious scripture, I would certainly encode these kind of eloquent touches in my scripture (if I were to write one).
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The ring structures found in the Koran (are found in the New testament book of Mark). What does it prove? The ancients encoded extremely beautiful structures into their religious writings. We have a technical word for this - Chiasmus. All this shows is that the Arabs were saturated in Greek, and Roman learning... But who wants to admit these little inconveniences? Nobody! Let's just say the Prophet was illiterate, and Arabia was a Godless, Pagan backwater until the spreading of Islam. Was it really like that? Or, had Roman culture seeped into Arabia along the Caravan trading roots? Why does Allah insist on Roman forms of punishment for misconduct such as crucifixion? Suspicious...
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All this shows is that the Koran is structured using traditional, ''poetic devices'' and ''forms'' that had been around for a good thousand years before the Prophet.
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On another point, Sir Isaac Newton believed that Homer had encoded secrets of metallurgy into the Homeric epics. He created a purple coloured alloy that had a textured, netted-looking surface. The quote he used to work out how to mix this metal had references to ocean and nets.... He believed there was a science in Homer that needed to be deciphered. For me, that is a super wow! During Roman times Homer was the sacred scripture that was used to teach students Koine Greek - St Paul would have learnt Homer. Also the book of Mark used a chiasmic structure (as does the Koran) and the author of Mark was knowledgeable in Homer...
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Sir Isaac Newton was fascinated with the codes in the Bible - a super ancient science called gematria that uses the values of letters and numbers to decipher secret meanings in sacred writings. Are we seeing a pattern here? I hope so! Cross cultural pollination is the source of this divine and mysterious text - the Koran...
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Of cause there are numerical keys in the Koran - but this tradition is already very ancient by the time of the birth of Mohamad!!!
This is why I am Shia ismaili Muslim.I agree no one can live 900 years or even 300 years. There is a very esoteric meaning behind his.
It's probably based on the story of a bunch of people who found a treasure in a cave and tried to use the gold and/ or silver coins from it and got caught. When they were being questioned where did they get such old gold and silver from, they made up a story that they had been sleeping for hundred or so years and from there it probably went on to become a legend.
I bet you can do those kind of things with almost every book if you apply the rules you want to determine if a miracle is contained in it.
I also heard a very identical story about Some who Slept In a cave Many many years. if it was a TV program or similar. so the question is maybe this story was first written in the Koran or in some other Scripture first
I can’t remember the number but there is a minimum number of letters/words to use numerology. The Bible code works for the telephone directory too or the works of Charles Dickens. It’s a parlour game.
This sounds like something Tolkien would have done for shits and giggles.
How does a literary device explain people living 309 years? Books are full of such devices, there is no miracle in that.
It’s a fiction and people believe! I’m speechless😅
Except that story is a well known Christian story that was written to give hope to Christians. It was made up and no Christian ever believed it actually happened. You know how we’ve got marvel movies and stuff now? That’s what this story is, a story made up for entertainment and for teaching.