Everything Wrong With Dungeons and Dragons: Honor Among Thieves in 18 Minutes or Less
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2023
- Hey, Dungeons and Dragons: Honor Among Thieves turned out pretty good! It IS possible to make a good D&D movie. But it's not possible to make a movie without sin.
Thursday: Legal sins.
Remember, no movie is without sin. Which movie's sins should we count next?
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The Speak With Dead scene is hilarious but I think my favourite gag from the film is when they escape on Jarnathan. Not because of the escape itself but because one of the council members shouts that they were going to pardon them. It's such a great little throwaway gag.
That gag is what told me that at least one writer had played D&D before. That’s a perfect example of the crap PCs pull.
Right? It's so perfect, I thought for sure Jeremy'd take a sin off for that.
I figured that's why they didn't go after them post. Like, they were just all "Bah, they were gonna get let out anyways. Don't bother. Just make sure Jarnathan is okay."
At least the council learned by the end of the movie! Lol
Agreed.
The “fat” dragon is canon. He resides in the Underdark and keeps the flames of the Duergar forges lit. In return they feed him plenty of slaves and continually add to his hoard.
Themberchaud
@@sethstor yep 👍🏻
Legend has it he was created when Gary Gygax's cat flopped down onto the map they were using
@@mamlukYep, sure he started out as a chonky cat.
@@tysondennis1016Pretty sure he still is a giant chonky cat, ;-)
9:20 Sorceror, Bard, Paladin all use Charisma as base stat. Druid is Wisdom and Barbarian is Strength. Intelligence being the group dump stat is on point.
It is a rare and ill balanced character who chooses Con as a dump stat.
@@hiigguys7395 Honestly, I can't imagine ever choosing Con as a dump stat. I might not boost it up on my archer as on my front-liner, but I definitely not dumping it.
Con is arguably 2nd-3rd most important stat for almost any character. Good luck maintaining concentration without it, this totally triggered me xD
@@hiigguys7395 My first character I dumped Con. Was the squishiest of the party in every fight
You can only dump constitution if you know how to get around it and it's for a reason, like roleplaying a sickly character
The scene where Holga destroys the guys who were going to execute them while Edgin was trying to get free the whole time was her rolling a Nat 20 and him rolling a Crit 1. She did the best you can possibly do, and he failed miserably.
she's also got that 'improvise weapon' trait or whatever is called now. hence the use of bricks, bow in melee, potatoes, molten iron... everything can be a weapon.
I watched this movie with low expectations and It was actually really good. The fight scenes were unexpected
Over hyping movies only sets them up for failure.
This one was met with a lukewarm reception by critics which is a good sign nowadays.
Yea I was the same way I prolly watch that movie like 5 times
Really I tried watching it 3 times and I couldn't get threw it , boring and just wandered from point to point to fill time
@@MakeitorBreakit591
You are thinking to much.
These movies are buttered popcorn, tasty but no substance.
I forget where I streamed it but yep, it was a fun watch. Scatter brained but fun.
15:41 the hand can only grab something within 5 feet, but on each of your turns the hand can move to a different location within 30 feet
Or approx 9 meters for those who like scientific metric
@@ctakitimu Using the metric system in D&D is a cardinal sin.
@@ctakitimu Metric System didn't put a man on the moon, is what we're saying.
@@wolfrainexxxexcept it did, as NASA uses metric.
@@QuixoteX Yep true. I remember playing back in high school using 3rd ed. None of us really knew what the distances equated to irl, just how each number related to each other number. We'd just ask the DM, is X monster in range for my lightning, etc
As a DnD enjoyer, I liked this movie. The puppet thing they did for the dragon councilman was so cool and authentic as opposed to CGI, like a movie from the 80’s. I also loved the humor and the world building.
Same goes for the Arracokra(?) character of Jarnathan. That was actually a guy in a amazing-looking bird suit with an animatronic head on top and he was looking out through the neck feathers. I believe he was also on some kind of stilts or something cuz of the bird feet he had. But that character looked awesome!
@@ItsFreakinHarding. seriously! I know CGI is pretty much permanent in the movie industry, but other movies need to take notes and do something traditional alongside it.
@@thecowboybebop2071The modern film industry needs to take a lot more inspiration from the original Jurassic Park. It used as little CGI as possible and it still holds up better than films released last year.
authentic ? You could basically feel the plastic while looking at them...
Love the movie, but it seems like it was quashed FOR being good enough to start a franchise that could compete with the Disney Machine.
Damnit...
I know people that play D&D that have not seen it! I'm going to buy the disk as soon as I can find it. Um.... not as easy said as done, eh?
Honor Among Thieves captured chaotic dnd energy very well, and some of those conversations feel straight from a session. I feel like the DM was definitely rooting for them and fudged a few rolls to help them
*Oh crap, they completely botched the bridge puzzle. How am I going to get them across?*
"Hey guys, I think my notes are off, could you tell me whats in your bags again?"
*A useless staff?! Its now a magic item that just reawakened.*
So many conversations like that probably would have happened.
Yeah
oh definitely. I appreciated that this wasn't a high-stakes, serious action adventure movie. that's fun to watch, but for many people not fun to play as a D&D game, and it might not have scratched the itch of someone who came to the movie looking for D&D. the movie they made was fun to watch, but it was also plausible - and fun! - to imagine playing as a campaign - with appropriate character exposition and spotlights like enjoyable D&D roleplay should have.
Never ever have I run a session where fudging rolls to not TPK the party was not required :D 4 years as a DM and counting
@@nagyzoliEvery session? You must have some crazy incompetent players or some crazy scaled encounters
I almost cried in joy when I saw the competitors in the Arena were dressed like the kids from the 80's DnD cartoon. That was such a deep cut.
Right there with you!
I gasped real hard, trying to contain my joy when I saw them, but none of the people I went with recognized them. And I went with my 3 parties and 2 DMs
Same! Then I had to explain to everyone I was with who they were. Not so much a deep cut as an old cut. Even CinemaSins didn't mention it - that's how old it was. 😁
@@ashamar I still prefer the version of the characters from the Renault Ad, they looked more like the cartoon characters!
One of the best cameos ever!!! I almost screamed when I saw them.
I love the idea of the characters stat blocks when it comes to the intellect devourer, we have a bard, paladin, and sorcerer who all prioritize charisma and don’t really need int. A Druid who prioritizes wisdom and a barbarian who famously dump int.
Exactly. Half the party has charisma as their primary stat, so using it as the dump stat as suggested would be the worst way to build their character
@@LordZombitten and the other suggested dumb stat was con, and you NEVER dump con on any class. con gives hp. hp let you live. living is important regardless of class.
@@saphcal Why would you want to live when you can be a glass cannon instead?
Thank you!
Dumping charisma, I mean, maybe for the barbarian and druid, but that ties into some VERY frequent skills.
But dumping constitution? Who dumps their con? EVERYBODY wants decent constitution. Martials want the HP, and spellcasters want it for concentration checks.
@@LordDragox412 because not dying is generally preferable to dying?
I love that the only sin for the scene where they plant the treasure in the wagon was the guards not noticing Edgin. That whole sequence where they portaled into the wagon and Doric falls through was so well done.
I think they actually should have removed a sin for it.
Green Flame Blade is a cantrip that can be cast to deal extra fire damage with a melee attack. The paladin dude likely has divine smite, smite spells, or sacred weapon active. Each has a different effect. The cool sword effects most definitely have a purpose beyond looking neat.
Xenk's paladin sword does extra radiant damage and upon its blade is inscribed: "neither virtue nor blade shall brake" in celestial language.
The red wizards only knew where the treasure he stole was because they marked it. Therefore they would have no way of knowing if he even had a family and just murdered the only person there when they arrived to retrieve their treasure.
Another sin for Cinema Sins. They're starting to stack up, yo!
Not really. You could say that the Red Wizards have a history of doing their research. They'd scout before they'd strike, but it's reasonable that they'd only show us the actual attack.
I figured that the Red Wizards not knowing he had a daughter, and killing his wife, pretty much summed up why they didn't hunt her down... because they didn't know, or care. Probably didn't even know it was him that took it, and just killed the "holder of their treasure."
@@apricane8467 If that's the case, why not hunt his daughter down, and set the house on fire, if they were sending a message of any kind? They wanted their treasure back, and I can't see them having any way of knowing who took it, or how... just that someone took it.
@@wolfrainexxx Only way they could know who or how is if they had Scrying, and they seem a bit less focused on that spell and more focused on being menacing and pale.
The green sword is Green Flame Blade (extra damage + leaping fire bonus) and Xenk is using Holy Weapon (also extra damage, also pretty shiny light)
I was hoping his was a Vorpal blade
Also it's a reference to the GREEN FLAME meme from the Acquisitions Inc playthrough.
@@XthorgoldX Unless you have a citation that the creators of the movie had that specifically in mind when they did it, I wouldn't say this. Green Flame Blade has been around for a while and not everything is a reference to Acq. Inc. Heck, if they were going to reference Acq. Inc., they could've put their Neverwinter HQ in one of the establishing shots of the city.
Xenk could also be using Sacred Weapon from the Oath of Devotion's channel divinity
@@ctakitimuI'm pretty sure that the Vorpal Sword doesn't glow, the one that does glow is the Sun Blade but that one works more like a lightsaber
This is the one movie where plot conviences actually make sense as its just the DM getting the heroes back and track.
"Oh you knocked down the only bridge... heres a portal gun
Yeah. CS really missed the mark a few times. Several "sins" didn't really make sense, like calling Doric sneaking into a castle a "flashback). The movie also deserved WAY more sins off.
@@UnboxingAlyss That and assuming that the character speaking knows everything about extremely rare magics, likely ones only really known to the rich and powerful, so them leaving something out is a sin, and not just the limits of the characters knowledge.
I am not sure if they did standard demographics for 5E, but I remember a book back in 2nd having a chart of how rare clas levels were, and well 17th level characters, let alone 17th level clerics, were extremely rare. IRCC the chart was based on the assumption for each level half the people who reach it either stop or die at the level and most people never really start gaining levels as an adventurer
Yeah, and the portal gun was continuously useful, more than the helmet of disruption
@@tysondennis1016 the point of the helm was to force Simon to level up, as it were. While the actual helm wasn't supremely useful the fact it got Simon to believe in himself was the real value of it. His contributions like the fight at the end would wouldn't have been possible without that self assurance.
@@1983kpb the movie uses milestone lv up and him gaining confidence made him gain like 6 levels he missed out on/didnt get, because his personal milestones werent met yet
11:00 The fat dragon isn't just there for no reason. Its actually been a part of D&D lore since way back to when Gary Gygax ran campaigns himself. Legend has it he created it when his cat flopped down on the map they were using.
6:51 I'd argue that the scene of Doric snooping around Neverwinter was not a flashback. The group met her, told her what they needed, she snuck her way in, escaped, and met them back at a tavern, just with several smash-cuts and the actual conversation leading to the escapade cut out.
Yup.
That's one sin for Cinema Sins!
Yeah, not sure why CSthought it was a flashback. It's definitely not.
exactly
That's exactly what happened. It's also night when they're back at the table. So no, they didn't happen to run into Doric who happened to have that info. She went out and got that info for them.
Cinema Sins doesn’t really understand cinema it’s pretty much the whole reason Birdman exists
Sorry, but while Maximillian's Earthen Grasp has a range of 5 feet that it can attack (like, the hand itself can reach someone 5 feet away from it), it can be cast up to 30 feet away, and it can be moved around to open spaces with an action. So the movie showed it pretty accurately.
Honestly, the bigger problem was having Mage Hand stand up to it and put up so much of a fight when it can only pick up 10 pounds.
@@Jatt2613 who said that was mage hand? Surely it's Bigby's Hand.
@ryankunst668 I agree she's a very powerful wizard it's 100% Bigby's Hand.
@Jatt2613 cast Tasha’s hideous laughter, and I failed the saving roll. 😆
Also looking at his stat block, he also casts bigby's hand, not max's earthern grasp. It's just for some reason earth-styled.
You should point out that druids can get unlimited wild shapes at 17th level so it's not technically a sin, however you could sin them miraculously finding a 17th level druid who shows no other signs of being a high level druid.
I think Doric got around the wild shape count with polymorph. If she was 10th level she’d have enough slots for that.
@@connorjohnson8590 But she wouldn't be able to use polymorph while still under a beast shape if she wasn't at least level 18.
@@bdletoast09 True, but beast shape can be ended willingly as a bonus action. Polymorph is an action, and is also concentration, so you could chain polymorphs together.
@@connorjohnson8590 That's actually a really good point
A friend of mine had a druid that could do everything Doric did - but it was in D&D 3.5. He got the "Master of a thousand shapes" (I think it was called that) prestige class, that allows to change into literally ANYTHING for a nigh unlimited amount of times. The downside of being a "Master"? You gain spells only once per five levels.
So yeah, I think Doric's player homebrewed a Master into 5th ed.
I rented this movie with no expectations, I wondered what kind of story they would tell when every single story ever played is different. I walked away knowing I am going to buy this movie because as much as I thought I wouldn't like it, turned out to be one of my absolute favorite movies ever.
have you seen "wrath of the dragon god"?
@@karn33333 I haven't I'll have to check it out.
"I wondered what kind of story they would tell when every single story ever played is different"
Uuuhhhhmmmm...literally EVERY movie EVER? :D
Whoa whoa whoa. I need to pause the video to make it clear, you never dump constitution. I will now continue the video.
Especially if you, I don't know, maybe need to make a swimming in armor check...
What do I dump then?
@@FourthStreetSaint the standard is to dump intelligence since so few classes rely on it and it doesn't have the most practical applications. But if you're not, somebody uses strength, dump that, if you're using strength and heavy armor, dump dexterity. And if you don't care too much, you can dump charisma.
@@FourthStreetSaint Depends on the class. But Charisma and Intelligence unless you are a spell slinger or similar. In that case Strength instead of intelligence.
But point is, Constitution is just too important.
And CinemaSins knows this and trolled us knowing we'd comment on it.
Showing that CinemaSins didn't dump Intelligence. Sneaky bastids.
@@AceMoonshot so if I was a fighter, intelligence would be my dump stat?
7:02 she obviously just found that out by infiltrating the castle in the sequence we just saw. She was listening as the fly when they talked about it. And this was obviously after they recruited her. Not luck that they ran into her after she learned it.
CinemaSins dude is famously inept at being able to follow along with what it is he's watching
The fat dragon actually has a significant, if obscure, backstory going back over 20 years to second edition Dungeons and Dragons, in "Drizzt Do'uden's guide to the Underdark".
Kinda upset he didn’t remove sins for how well Chris and Michelle’s relationship was done and how we actually got a platonic relationship 😂 also am I the only one that cried in her death scene? 😂
Not only do I agree with your first point wholeheartedly. I cried like a baby in and out of the theater. I’m a sucker for heavy handed music and forced heartstrings, but Holga was a genuinely fantastic character. Played perfectly and showed there was a massive heart under her gruff. I feel the tears were well deserved for her acting.
I'm suprirsed they didn't mention this was Michelle Rodriguez playing a tough female of fiew words who dies in the end.
Of course she was going to be revived but the realization that she is essentially the mother of his child and his platonic best friend is the kind of representation people with non-nuclear families love to see.
They weren't delayed by the storm because the storm didn't affect everyone the same. Jarnathan flies. The storm likely impedes flying. Also, he may live farther from work, or live somewhere where the storm is more severe or caused more damage and delays. The others could have been so close that they walked to work. Jarnathan being delayed by the storm is not a sin anymore than, "Bob will be late for work today because there is a problem with the train." Not everyone will be delayed by the train since some people took an earlier train, a bus, a taxi, a car, walked, or even took a train from a different direction.
Salvableruin would be great at cinemasins
There is quite literally a wing of that prison that is dedicated to living quarters for the counselors, so it is quite likely the present counselors had arrived several days earlier while Jarnathan was yet to be in transit, thus allowing for a time frame for the storm to be active during which only affects Jarnathan.
Also the “late councillor” is of course a tongue in cheek reference to one player always being late
Thanks mate, none of us were capable of working that out without your assistance.
@@BatCaveOzclearly cinema sins didn't think about it lmao. Glad you are so smart though! Special little guy
The movie definitely did NOT disappoint! The filmmakers managed to capture the total chaos of a D&D session that many D&D players will be familiar with. But what this movie managed to do well is to build a fantasy world I would love to see more from. The movie was way more entertaining and fun that anything Marvel or DC has published in the last couple of years!
It's no billion dollar movie, but it's fun
Of course, since we are more than completely oversaturated with those Super Hero movies. As cool as they are, but it feels like 90% of cinema has been that kind of movie for the past 15 years, so any breath of fresh air that is something different AND decent is more than welcome.
The owlbear smashing her into the pavement made me laugh far harder than it should have.
3:06 I believe technically the armor restriction is more a question of movement restriction, not weight, or else there'd be a carrying capacity limit as well. Additionally, based on Jarnathan falling pretty quickly, I'd feel comfortable saying he's over his carrying capacity, but not over his push/lift/drag limit. If we assume both people are around 200 lbs, that'd require Jarnathan to have a strength of 14. High, especially for a civilian councilman, but not impossible
also they crashland like the next shot he cuts to. the 3 were probably just gliding not really flying.
I love that Simon is a sorcerer struggling with charisma😂
Building your character to be interesting > Building your character to be capable
@@Leith_Crowtheryou can be both interesting and capable. Unoptimized characters can hurt the party as a whole and slow down the game of an already slow game.
@@Shane-hx4xp Thank God this person pointed out it’s possible to be both capable and interesting. Otherwise, I never would have considered the possibility.
EDIT: I can’t believe I have to clarify that this was sarcasm (see below comment).
@@Leith_Crowther you’re welcome, maybe try it at your next table! You’ll have tons of fun.
It's simple really, the Charisma stat is your force of self/soul. Just because you have a high charisma stat, doesn't mean you have to be charismatic in conversation.
I went to see this with low to average expectations and was very pleasantly surprised. I feel like they worked very well with all the stereotypes, and I am also SO happy you took a sin off for the questioning the dead scene, I remember laughing so hard at that in the cinema xD
That scene was amazing. I think the "BUT WE APPROVED YOUR PARDON!!" should have also gotten a sin removed, though.
@@EpyonRules There are quite a few scenes that deserved sin removals.
same
Glad you laughed at the "asking the dead questions" scene. I loved that scene
When they got everything they wanted from asking one question to someone, but still has 2 questions left, so they asked his favorite food and what 2+2 is. Perfectly encapsulates player realisation.
I think the Hither-Thither staff being in Holga’s possession for years and her not knowing what it was until it became incredibly useful to someone else later is exactly what RPGs are like
Holga, please make an arcana check. Nat 20
I agree, how many times a party will get a magic item because DM was like "fuck random rolls for loot charts here's some neat stuff I found" and it all gets written down then promptly forgotten until someone is looking at character sheets going figuring out a trap or puzzle then BAM that one item they needed was there the whole time
Very true, I mean, literally one of the Vestiges of Divergence in Exandria (Spoilers for Critical Role Campaign 1) was Grog's uncle's Titanstone Knuckles, something Travis had no idea about as he just threw the knuckles in there while thinking up stuff for the herd in his backstory. Then it turns out that they were actually one of the vestiges, all according to Matt's design.
My current campaign got a magical macguffin in session 1. No one bothered cast detect magic or ask about this item for 6 irl months
Technically those killed by a Red Wizards blade, "could not be raised or resurrected by any normal means short of divine intervention or the use of a tablet of reawakening." - so actually a cleric couldn't have used resurrections to bring them back.
A D&D sin for Cinema Sins!
I think a cleric does get access to divine intervention so the level 17 cleric would have a 17% chance of invoking their God to bring them back!
She was still alive, just kill her by *your* hand and have a cleric cast revivify on the body😂
Yeah but doesn't Divine Intervention only work once? Or is that just BG3? If only once, you'd be hard pressed to convince a Cleric at that level to expend it for some random Bard's wife.
@@joshuamulvaney792pen and paper DnD just means you have to wait a week before you can even attempt to use it again. Bg3's limit is mainly for balance issues.
Surprisingly great movie, very rewatchable, regardless of D and D knowledge. "The Jarnathan!" and Chris Pine melting scenes still crack me up, and should have resulted in sin removals.
The guards should have taken psychological damage 😂
"So she DID turn into a deer" was another moment worthy of sin removal.
Yes the melting is hysterical when I first saw it
@@jonathanfitzharris4196 Watching that scene of the melting bard, I took 1d5 Psychic damage, and never recovered, because I wouldn't stop laughing afterward.
I love that the big higher thither plan didn’t work. That’s solid storytelling
Chris Pine has been a long-held favorite of mine, and so I was ecstatic that this movie was popular among moviegoers and critics alike. I wish its budget wasn’t so astronomical though bc at like 300mil total (including marketing) it’s tough to make a profit off that. Fingers crossed for a sequel!
I love how he has a whole DnD sins tab and has NEVER seen or heard of Green-flame blade? While they didn't use it exactly how it is in the tabletop, it's still a great cantrip, allowing you to enchant a weapon and hit one creature before extending the fire to hit a second in the same attack
yep, the sins in that fight were just bs.
whats these enchantments on their weapons?
-a cantrip and a paladins smite
why doesnt the green flame balde hurt the paladin as much as some random guards?
-because he is more powerfull
why did they fight them even tho they reanimate?
-because as shown, they only reanimate after a certain amount of time and are disoriented at first
why did he fight them when they didnt even get a time advantage, because the rest didnt ran away?
-because he wanted to give them time, but they just stood there to enjoy the spectacle
why is there a fat dragon?
-because its there in the lore. it helps duergar adn they feed it in return
theres like 90% of bs "sins" in this movie, where cs either didnt (want to) get the joke/ the scene right or they just dont understand something
also noticed at the dragon stuck in the cave scene, they said why didn't they run when the gag is their stuck in a crevice and can only look at the dragon@@the4GIVEN
This movie was a great representation of a real D&D game.
I agree- that scene where they bust out of prison, that felt like the insane, improvised, spur of the moment zany-ness of a D&D game.
@@anjelica948 "No, you guys are not escaping with an Aarakocra... ... you... you are actually stalling for time? Like... really stalling for time... oh whatever, have your bird boy."
14:52 It's subtle, but you could argue that Edgin is great at inspiring his team several times within the movie.
This, he is literally using bardic inspiration as a bard would, by inspiring people.
@@wwaxwork he makes plans that fail!
@@saphcalbut he plans for them to fail, so he technically succeeded.
FUN FACT! THE VOLCANO WAS NOT ADDED IN POST! they filmed at the Fagradalsfjall volcano in Iceland, which was actually erupting!
minus a few sins right there.
this movie played out exactly how a d&d campaign feels and i love it for that
It really does. I laughed my ass off over this film while my wife looked at me like I was insane.
WotC released stat blocks for the leads and druid girls wild shape gave her the special ability of wild shaping into an owlbear as well as the normal creatures 5/day, which is still fewer uses than what she did in that she used in chase. So even when they fudge the rules they still fudged it up.
How in the frocking hell did you type this comment 11 hours ago? 💀
@@florianneacosta987channel member
Fair, but I am going to allow it on 'Rule Of Cool" grounds.
Go with God and Be Safe from Evil. 😎 👍
Eh. House rules are the only rules that matter. If the DM says okay, then it is okay. And clearly the DM in the movie said it was okay.
There's also the possibility that the Druid had an item that let her have an extra go or two at shape changing, maybe? Or a blessing?
Man who included a 'D&D lore sins' counter doesn't know what the spell 'Green Flame blade' is
GREEN FLAME!
Owlbears are indeed now on the wildshape list. Also this entire movie FEELS like a D&D campaign. Checks DO succeed or fail at the best/worst times.
Not in fifth edition. An owlbear is a monstrosity, not a beast. DnD sin! :p
@@MichaelNermanbut in bg3 you can and you have to be level 6
@@buildawall5803 BG3 changes some of the rules, often for the better, as I understand.
@@buildawall5803 That's a game, not official lore. 5E was created way before BG3.
Probably homebrewed rules. Totally acceptable. Ol' rule for DMing...Dungeon Master can allow anything if they want to. Rule of Fun, plain and simple. DMs who are super strict with the rules tend to not have people in their campaigns. Plus, it's a movie. It's fun.
I always figured both Simon and Sofina casted "Bigby's Hand." But just had different trappings for their respective spells.
Nah, I'm pretty sure that Simon's spell is Maximilian's Earthen Grasp. But yeah, Sofina cast Bigby's
@@johncox7169 according to his stat block it is Bigby's too
When I saw the trailer, I was hesitant, having flashbacks of blue lips and Jeremy Irons... but when Pine did the little heel kick playing the song at the end if it, I knew I'd be in a Theater for this. It was so good.
Also, it deserved a sin off for the musical distraction scene...
Jeremy Irons did a great job with what he was given
@@richardhicks5031 Jeremy Irons was the best part of that movie.
Intelligence is a Dump Stat for Barbarians, Bards, Druids, Paladins, and Sorcerers. And Charisma is a primary stat for half of those.
For sorcerers, it's usually strength. They usually take a 10 or 12 in intelligence so they have some understanding.
@@dragoninthewest1 You think Chad Magical has any time to be thinking about anything? He's too busy slaying witches and laying wenches. Or is it the other way around? It doesn't matter, he doesn't need to think about magic. He's a nepobaby and one of his parents already figured it out for him. Now all he has to do is point and shoot like he's playing a click and find adventure.
@@fireprincessreviews hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. But when talent works hard, they get all the witches
Regardless of which class you’re playing, I think everyone should agree that under no circumstance should Constitution be your dump stat
Themberchaud (the fat dragon) is from the game and actually has a lot of lore behind it. Also, I 100% threw this movie on as background noise while gaming because I figured it'd be trash but I ended up finishing my match and then restarting the movie to actually watch it. Was pleasantly surprised~
Literally everything in the movie is from the game.
I tell a lie: everything save the Easter Eggs, like the 1980s cartoon characters - those they were in the Baldur's Gate 2 game.
Who ever wrote the script to this was clearly a forever DM hats off to them
9:22 Sin yourself for saying that the party should make either constitution or charisma their dump stat, two of the legit most important stats in the game, particularly for bards and sorcerers!
Dumping CON is literally a death sentence
For a film whose writers claimed to "really enjoy emasculating their male characters", they ended up writing one of the best father figures ever in Edgin. He would literally go to Hell & back to keep his daughter safe, and he loved her more than anything. That's manliness.
I feel like the writers really shot themselves in the foot with that statement considering the backlash they received and it's why a lot of my friends decided not to go for it. I'm glad I did, it was a good time
Oh man, I'd forgotten about that. It's a bit like No Time To Die, where they cut the trailer to make it look way more 'emasculatey' than the movie actually was, just to stir up controversy.
That's why I was so damn surprised at how much I really liked this movie. Also, I waited until it was available for free on Amazon (which didn't take long at all).
And Forge was a classic male villain who almost succeeded and Sofina was happy to let him walk away with what he wanted so not sure how he was emasculated.
They fell into the trap of thinking that that's what "modern audiences" wanted to hear, when in reality it's just a handful of fanatical man-haters who want that. Fortunately, the actual movie doesn't really do this (much).
4:41 That effect was her casting prestidigitation.
6:57 It was information she realized while listening to Forge and Sofina talk about the vault in the prior wild shape sequence.
Could be Chill Touch, another cantrip.
@@BaneDarkwulf Chill touch is neither cold damage (necrotic) nor do you actually touch anything with it (It's ranged). It's not Chill touch.
@@Augenmann2 prestidigitation isn't a touch spell either, has a range of 10 ft. I can agree now that I looked closer at the spell description. I haven't used that spell myself, I prefer firebolt for my damaging cantrip.
I was pleasantly surprised. The story makes sense, the characters are consistent, it's not laden with current year political trash, the humor works, there's genuine heart, and I was pleased to see them double down on the D&D stuff. Displacer beasts, owlbears, place names I recognize, reverse gravity spells, tieflings, barbarian rage, bickering like every group ever....I felt like my friends and I could have done this. ♥
Owlbears are peak creature design, imma need you to sin Eight Legged Freaks
15:18 Sinning CinemaSins for not sinning the red wizard lady's "No".
6:57 No, no - she collected that info during her scouting run. She was a fly in the room while the two nobles were being told about Mordenkainen's Mystic Seal. (However, the sin could be that it took the witch as long as it did to call out that there was a wild shaped druid).
There's no way in DnD for wizards to just know that. It's insinuated she gets suspicious and casts Detect Magic. (Note; House Rules apply. Some DM's rule that Wild Shape isn't "magic" since it's a class ability)
@@iwillcontactattorneygenera1078Wild shape says "magically" in its text, and according to the Sage Advice Compendium if something says its magical then its treated as magical
@@fizhing Hence "house rules"! My tables tend to favour class abilities as non-magical (to a point it makes sense) for the purposes of things like anti-magic fields and detect magic to make them 1. More fun 2. More unique-feeling or 3. Make them feel more balanced with all the other class abilities that aren't magical. Something like Smite being blocked by anti-magic just feels less fun! Let the non-wizards get something.
@@iwillcontactattorneygenera1078 things being treated as magical is actually way more beneficial than hurtful, since you bypass nonmagical resistances and much more, ex: magical flight is better because you cannot fall and be knocked prone
7:47 this entire asking the dead scene had me dying when I first saw it
9:41 Really should have been a "Party just fucked up the DM's plan, and now they have to contrive a way to continue the campaign" D and D sin.
I love how he skipped over the entire scene after the put the painting in the wagon and Doric’s save scene XD
Supplemental option for the first DnD sin. As a 9th level spell, they also have access to Miracle (in older editions) and Wish in some specific circles of Cleric. Both of these spells could also be used to undo the whole "red wizard blade" thing.
09:15 Ok, sinning that was a DnD sin for you. Everyone who's ever played DnD knows that intelligence is the primary dump stat for anyone who isn't a wizard. Tied with strength for those who never want to use a non-dexterity weapon. Dumping charisma or especially constitution in favor of those is suboptimal. The movie got it right.
I just figured that Sofina used Chill Touch to cool the tea, which is a cantrip. She doesn't need to summon a ghostly, skeletal hand to do it because she is undead.
Chill touch is neither Chill nor Touch though.
It's necrotic damage as a ranged spell attack with 120 feet range
I'm pretty sure she used Frostbite.
Shapewater?
Considering it's actually a touch based spell (or at least it could be), this could very well be her using presditigitation or shape water in a much more inconvenient manner. Frostbite is out of the question, it's a range spell only so the only other similar option would be the ice version of burning hands I guess but I also think that's ranged.
Point is, it's so minimal what she's doing that it has to be a cantrip so my bet is that she used shape water to freeze the moisture in her finger and just stuck it in there.
So...why does everyone say Doric was using wild shape?
Her forms and how many times she transformed work with around level 10 druid using polymorph spell mixed with wild shape
Also explains how the Red Wizard detects her, as if with detect magic from the spell
Also...she the people who say wild magic aren't druids, like if they don't fully understand someone else's magic
Nah, true sight or planar sight also show you druids in wild shape, and sofina seems to be legendary enough for either.
But yes, i totally agree with the polymorph thing.
It's what battlecats do :D
probably because Sofina literally says "theres a wild shape among us" and since nothing is stated afterwards that its not all wild shape, thats what people assume it all is.
@@saphcalthat’s their fault for assuming it’s just wild shape and not a mix of wild shape spells magic items or a divine blessing. It’s D&d the possibilities are endless.
@@Shane-hx4xp doesnt matter whats possible in D&D. ive been playing D&D for 20+ years. if something unexplained happens, you gotta explain it. the general audience doesn't know this stuff. if its not meant to be wild shape it should say otherwise. if its meant to be wild shape it needs to be explained how she can shift so often. its that simple.
@@saphcal and that’s probably why you enjoy cinemasins, you need everything explained to you.
Leaving the poor dead guy with one more question before he could go back to sleep had me rolling. "Just one more question?..Please?"
(puts on nerd glasses) Based on the spells shown in this movie, none of the player characters were above level 7. Possibly they were lower than that. The final boss was able to cast a level 9 spell (meteor swarm) so must have been level 17+. The fact that beating her with a lute is more effective than casting spells isn't a sin, it's good strategy. They are breaking her concentration while attacking her in melee, something no caster wants.
One REALLY clever thing added in the end btw was the "asking her out scene." Previously, his lack of self confidence and lackluster spellcasting made him unattractive. However, he is a wild caster. That "accident" where he reversed gravity was a REALLY complicated spell, one WAY past his ability. The fact that he was able to vast it on accident means he does have come capabilities after all, making him more interesting to her.
*Puts on nerdier glasses* Assuming that you ignore their official character sheets (Since they add custom abilities to the characters), Dorric the Druid is a 9th level Moon Druid based on her ability to wild shape into an Owlbear, about the only way you can wild shape into one in 5th edition, and Simon mentions that he knows Telekinesis, a 5th Level Spell, so he must also be around 9-10. So it's likely that theyre different levels ranging from 7-9 on a case by case basis. Otheriwse, spot on.
@@snowrios8084 owlbears are monstrosties
The only sin here is that you didn't remove a sin for that hilarious "Braaaaaaaaaaid"-Bard Spell break scene.
This was an incredible movie! Very funny, highly creative, and tons of fun.
You missed a sin. Ed would be excellent at cinemasins when he pointed out how a sentence being symmetrical doesn't make it not nonsense. As for Simon being a magical badass, he is a sorcerer. Charisma is their modifier and self confidence is an aspect of that. Once he realized that he was good enough, self confidence goes up and charisma with it.
Doubly so with INT being his dump stat. lol. Too stupid to initially realize he can do it.
Ed isn’t a bard, he’s a fighter/rouge that just plays the lute
Me and my girlfriend really enjoyed this movie in the cinema we didn't expect much but came out surprised at how entertaining it was
Heck, my wife isn't a nerd like me or much into DnD. However, she enjoyed it as a good movie in general, and even enjoyed seeing how much i was geeking out with the races, classes, spells, and lore.
As infuriating as it is to see Valve sit on popular properties, they do deserve credit for not forcing out half-assed sequels to cash-in on their fanbase. Also, I appreciate their embracing of the meme they cannot count to 3.
Overwatch 2 begs to differ with that, haha
@@Freirelucass1 valve is not blizzard?
Valve can actually count to 3. If you pay attention to their logo, you'll spot that the "E" is a backwards 3. The actual name of the company is Valv 3. We don't talk about what happened to ValvI/Valv1 and ValvZ/Valv2. /s
....Artifact. The entire point of that game was to cash in on DOTA 2 fans by heavily integrating the CCG's with their marketplace. Guess how that turned out.
@@LordDragox412 In other words...
HALF-LIFE 3 CONFIRMED
14:36 Every time I see a situation like that in a movie all I can think about is Mike Myers’ Dr. Evil: “ Ya just don’t get it Scott, ya don’t.” 😂😅
Knowing nothing about D&D a few months ago I'm glad I'd played Baldur's Gate 3 for a while before watching the movie as I feel I got a lot more from both the movie and this CinemaSins.
Bg3 that druid turns into owl bear that means she is level 6
I’m surprised you didn’t sun the fact that they didn’t wait for their verdict before jumping out of the window.
5:17
It's reinforced. Reinforced music instruments can be used as an improvised melee weapon with proficiency. It's been a thing for bards and bard adjecent rogues since 3e :D
It's actually part of his official stat block that it's reinforced lol
@@freyja3120 And you can see its reinforced at 11:25
when Doric did the Owlbear-Hulk thing my girlfriend and I both said "puny god" to each other, not *quite* at the same time but it's a better story if I say we did so obviously it was perfectly in sync
Listening to all the quips I had about D&D logic coming from Jeremy's mouth is just the icing I've needed on this cake.
6:00 They are on the list in BG3 for Moon Druids
Also
6:45 She's the revised Druid. She turned her spell slots into wild shapes (sin removed)
And
8:29 He can't use Speak with Dead on Ed's wife because they cremated her remains. (sin removed)
Szass Tam is also mentioned in BG3 as a foul mouthed lich.
Agree with people here I went into this movie expecting disappointment. Being a dnd fan for going on 20 years now I went with my father in law who got me interested in it whos been playing since first edition back in the 80’s. I was pleasantly surprised at how well this movie was done. Story didn’t feel forced, humor was VERY welcome, cast was great, nothing too terribly cringe, no crazy politics, just a good popcorn flic. Now is it the best movie ever, no but I really enjoyed it. Carry on!
Also fat dragon.
@@cy-one You mean a "body positive" Dragon 😁
@@how8132lmao😂
@@cy-one my wife who grew up on dnd laughed so hard at the fat dragon lol. That was her favorite part
@@Agent_Missouri While I'm not a DnDer, I've played my fair share of TTRPG. And the fat dragon is hilarious!
So many moments in the movie just _feel_ like "this is the story of an actual TTRPG group ... with all it's idiotic little hilarities."
6:00 not in 5e, but in the old D&D 3E it was possible for a druid to become a shifter (prestige class) and would then be able to turn into an owlbear. Also, there was an epic-level feat that could allow this in 3E, and given how frequently she can shift forms, I'd say she's level 20 (Archdruid can shift an unlimited number of times). Just saying. Also, Shapechange (level 9 spell) allows it.
in D&D 5e, the Circle of the Moon Druid can become an Owlbear (whose CR is 3) at like 9th level (Since 3 would be the 1/3 of your 9 Druid Levels)
@@snowrios8084 Owlbears aren't beasts. Druids are limited to beasts (and elementals at level 10 for moon druids.
"Citation needed" when Holga says "you're a good man" damn near killed me😂
cinemasins; confused about druid flashback
but... didn't the party specifically task her with going to the keep to find out what was there and how they could break in?
she was there, because they asked her to, and they were expecting her to return with information,
-one sin on cinemasins for not watching the movie good
11:34 5th edition says you only have trouble swimming if you do so in armor you are not proficient with. Xenk must be proficient in the armor he's wearing, since he can swim with great ease :p
He's a paladin, they have all armor proficiencies.
@@XthorgoldX i know... i was being facetious:p
100 sins to YOU for missing the OG D&D cartoon characters in the arena! HOW DARE YE!
Since DND Sins were being given out, it should be noted that they could not have simply used Speak with Dead to find out how Zia would feel about being ressurected, at least not the real Zia the paladin was referring to in that scene.
Anyways she was cremated. Speak with dead requires corpse that is intact enough to have a mouth
10:36 regarding the sword attributes in the fight, the sword with green flames is obviously this movie's interpretation of the spell "Green flame blade" And while the paladin sword doesn't have a confirmed power, I imagine its probably a divine smite or some other kind of smite since thats what paladins are known for
I think its blinding smite
@@Caroline-vo8zg I don't think it was any of the Smite spells, as it would have gone away after 1 attack. More likely Holy Weapon or Magic Weapon.
@@johncox7169 if you look at the clip they never actually hit eachother and blinding smite is a concentration spell that stats until you hit them (like green flame blade)
Basic radiant damage for the paladin, basic acid for the enemy. Nothing special at all, and completely by the rules. (including him getting "burned" by it.
I am a Dungeons and Dragoner, and hyped for this movie. Sure, it could have done better, but its so worth rewatching. It also makes sense why at the beginning of the movie that Ed was a Bard Paladin. Both use charisma and are a powerhouse mutliclass. But then Ed became a Oath Breaker and lost that power.
ed is not a paladin they released official stats and he's just pure bard. the oath is just narrative, not class based.
Loved the movie captured the essence of D+D almost as good as BG3 did and that’s the problem. They should have waited until BG3 got released and got boosted by the hype of the game.
Correction: Themberchaud is a canonical DnD dragon and does not solely exist to make fun of how fat he is (also no one I've seen has made fun of it, we love our thicc boy), he's a cool Easter egg for DnD fans. Also he's adorable.
10:00 Guy sinning DND lore doesn't recognize Green flame Blade and Magic/Holy Weapon. *Ding*
I'm surprised the sneaking-the-portal-into-the-wagon scene didn't get a sin off. CS usually loves it when things are used in clever ways like that.
What a fun movie this was! And it's interesting because so many modern movies and shows try to put in the quippy Whedon-style characters and it gets tiresome, but somehow this one worked. Maybe because characters still felt more honest instead of being quippy only for service to deliver jokes?
yes. very quippy, but the jokes weren't shallow, and emphasized the emotions of the moment rather than deflecting them. we got a feel for everyone's distinct characterization and unique relationships to the others through the dialogue, and that INCLUDES all their banter.
Tack on an extra sin.
7:28 Rules as written, only the caster can speak with a corpse. PHB page 277: "You grant the semblance of life and intelligence to a corpse of your choice within range, allowing it to answer the questions you pose."
There's gotta be a movie out there that deserves a 15 second video that goes through the intro, displays text on screen reading "It was made.", Then ends
Themberchaud (the fat dragon) existed in the lore before this movie, so he doesnt exist JUST for that, he already existed and was large. and theres a reason he was large. he was overfed so that weaker beings could control him. as you can see from him showing up here in the movie, it didnt work so well long term.
11:16 you obviously missed the part where he seems to be able to breathe combustible gas, but lacks the ability to ignite it himself. The only time he actually breathes fire, is when he breathes his gassy breath past some already existing fire.
You remove that sin and give it to yourself, good sir! :p
Wild Shape doesn't give you Owlbears, but you know that Druids can learn polymorph to turn into one anyway, right?
Definitely a Cinema Sins Sin: The deer thing wasn't a flashback, it was just a cut to the next scene where she was explaining what happened.
The owlbear looks like it's not possible in D&D 5E, possible with an Epic Feat in 4E (which would make her the most powerful character in the movie by a LONG shot), and it's surprisingly easy in 3.5e with a number of feats, and prestige classes. So if this is going off 3.5 rules, which isn't out of the question, totally workable for her. The real problem is how MUCH she uses it, even a high level druid can wildshape that many times in a day.
I just think it’s ironic that if they would have waited to go through the inquiry before escaping.. they would have been free. Then they wouldn’t have had a problem.
Almost like something a DM would do 😂
Yes, that was the joke that was made. Good observation.
I'm disappointed you didn't remove a sin for Melted Chris Pine, I wanted to see your reaction to that one
I was waiting for a CR reference, wasn't expecting it during the sin total but I'll take it, he's used Vax's Dagger-dagger-dagger joke before so you know he's a critter
The magic vs magic fight scene was so much more creative and interesting than the usual "blasting each other with lightning/power beams" crap that most other movies use.