As a 78 yo builder I've always enjoyed watching how intelligent men in the various trades found different ways to skin a cat. Being now retired and a wannabe machinist I'm equally awed by the considerations and intellect involved in creating this part. With all the shit going on in the World, watching stuff like this rekindles my respect for the decent part of the human mind.
This video was intense. There is a ton of information being provided. If this was a sitcom, you'd have burned through a season's worth of jokes. Really fantastic video, I'm going to have watch this a few times.
Hi Max, in my job I have been very involved with gear theory and geometry over the past few years. What you say about the root clearance and (in your earlier video) the profile shift is spot on. I doubt this was done just to save money though. If the 12 tooth pinion was standard with 20 degree pressure angle, about 60% of the active flank under the pitch diameter wouldn’t transmit drive, which is bad, the less teeth the worse this effect. The profile shift also makes the pinion stronger and longer lasting (the smaller gear goes first). They do this on modern power generating windmills to stop premature fatigue failure of the pinion. If you were making this with a hob or a gear shaper it would all take care of itself with a standard cutter. The old idea about adding two teeth to get the OD is often not followed in modern manufacturing. Anyway kudos for your level of understanding, there can’t be many fitter and turners about, who knows what a profile shift is.
Excellent comment, I've never heard of this gear profile protocol, I've seen pinions like this, and fitted them, but never questioned the reason. Always good to learn from my 78 to 82 apprenticeship. I do remember plotting Involutes etc though.
Very interesting way of getting the job done, an unconventional part,-- and an unconventional way to cut that gear. You are the type of guy that a captain of a sinking ship needs, when everything else is not working. Shop is looking great, the HBM passed away last week, it is no longer on the critical list in the emergency room, it is in the morgue with a toe tag, but after seeing you cut one gear with three or four different cutting tools, anything is possible.
Max, you are a very clever lad. I havee watcheed a lot of RUclips machinists cut. gears but this is the first one using the techniques you are applying. Looking forward to the successful conclusion of this gear.
Definitely a strange fish Max, it was only when I saw the old one setup to rough out, did i notice the teeth profile. Not for the faint hearted, great job on setup and method. Thanks for sharing
@@swanvalleymachineshop Hi Max, I realised many moon's ago, that when GOD invented engineering, he laughed his Boll#$%ks off. Excellent description from one of your subscribers, never heard of this gear profile protocol.
Thanks, I really appreciate your work and your solution to the challenge of cutting what in the US we would call a "bastard" gear form. Of course here we, used to at least, encounter only diametral pitch spur gears but occasionally would come across a bastard form. In those days I would have ground a tool from high speed (cobalt if possible) to the needed form, put it in a fly cutter and single-point cut the gear in one pass. Naturally, we had to shoot from the hip sometimes on those late night emergency jobs, but we got it done somehow. It's great when you have the tooling at hand and the time to painstakingly do a precision job. Thanks again, great work!
Thanks . Odd gears are a bit like odd threads & we come across heaps this side of the globe . I call them Pakistani Cycle Threads ! ( named after the British Cycle Thread ! ) 👍
Hi Max. Very informative, quite a tough nut to crack... Thanks for taking the time to show and explain in detail the issue and the process. Way over my pay grade, but enjoying the ride...looking forward to part 2. ATB....Cheers.....
Geez Max ive been practising and learning and are quite happy with myself but you've just got this shit wired. Thankyou for doing these videos. I have learned so much from them.
I'll have to hunt through video's to find the one you did with the 'vernier'(?) center plate' I've heard about them but this is the first time I've actually seen one I'm going to subscribe and binge watch more. I've had to use a jewelers loupe last ten years to read vernier scales 😁
What a great explanation. It's exactly what I needed. I have a 10 tooth gear (16DP / 20PA) that I need to figure out how to cut. This video really made me rethink about how to approach this task. Thanks for sharing. New sub here.
Max, this is an amazingly detailed tutorial. I really appreciate taking us along on all the key in-process checks that are so often glossed over. Thank you - 👍👍😎👍👍
Great presentation, Max. the "precision pool" you machinist dive into is really deep. Many thanks to the blokes who arrived at the math and the machining involved to make dividing heads. I'm sure there were a few restless nights and some mistakes along the way, but a cold one at the end of the day takes some of the pain away, cheers and thank you.
Great video......Thanks for sharing....very educational and entertaining......Just finished my 1st set of change gears for cutting metric threads on my imperial lathe.
Hello Max. This is a great gear cutting tutorial. One thing I was taught when using a dividing head was to move the sector arms by the trailing arm, not the leading arm. That way the arm you are pushing on strikes the pin and stops. If you use the leading arm, when the trailing arm strikes the pin you have the possibility of spreading the arms farther apart, causing an error. I often wonder if there is another trade that has as many tips/tricks as the machinist trade. Ken
Thanks Ken . These arms clamp together really good , but are really loose on the rotation ! There would be very few trades that have so many things that can pop up just doing a simple job . 👍
The gear is looking good so far Max. That gear may have been cheaper for the factory to make, But sure is a pain to machine a replacement. Looking forward to the next part. Cheers
Great tutorial! Hard to compliment you in words that haven't already been said. I agree with all the praise given previously. Each time I found myself wondering why or how, you answered my questions like you could read my mind. All the double checking at critical stages just to be sure, is a skill not stressed enough. I enjoy and look froward to all of your posts! Thanks!👍👍⚙💯🍺
Max I have seen this done many times and I must say this is the best detail explanation and pro-active trouble shooting that I have seen. I like many others just take it for granted that the cutters are out of the box correct, but it is pretty obvious that the Rice Cutters are suspect, and you have just proven it and also offered a solution. Thanks for taking the time to explain in detail. I'll be back for more.
Great example of detailed indexing. Probably delving into specialty area. Gears is what enabled us to transfer power. Appreciated the instructional detail, as my memory of my boat winch was worth the effort.
G'day Max. Really tremendous video, showing the methods & execution of your gear cutting with the endmill as well as your Beefy looking Height Guage. Your endmill ripped through the shaft material, & left a reasonably good finish. Looking forward to your next Installment.
Heaps of interesting information in this episode, Max 👍. I’m glad you added the check for symmetry of the gear cutter profile; it’s something I might not have thought up on my own.
Excellent presentation Max. Good way to preserve the cutters. I always count hole spacings, can't Bozo it. I got one of our Apprentices to cut 127 tooth gear for my Hercus 9a, stuffed up on the first but got it right on the second one back in the late eighties. Good exercise in differential indexing. Your indexing head would do it nicely without a gear train. My Brother still cuts metric threads with that gear.
Thanks . It would probably take me 2 goes with differential indexing as well ! Have not done it since we had to make a spiral flute reamer as an apprentice . 👍
Well described Max, that dividing head is a beast. I note you are cutting in reverse and towards the tailstock, guessing deliberately so to aid with the visibility on the setup? Cheers, Jon
That is a lot of work. I imagine they used custom cutters. But this tooth shape does result in stronger teeth. I usually prefer to use the circle with the fewest holes so my count of the holes is less likely to be wrong and I can more easily see if the arms have slipped when turning them around. I’ve never understood why these manufacturers all seem to have made such a flimsy method to secure the arms. One very short, tiny screw. I’ve seen the threads in the arm stripped out by someone who didn’t feel it was tight enough.
G'day Max,, i have watched a lot of youtubers cutting gears,, but this is the most comprehensive yet and did'nt lose me with boredom. well explained all the way through. really waiting for the conclusion. do you recommend for a beginner such as me to buy chinese cutters to begin with??👍👍
Thanks . I think most of those Chinese cutters are much of a muchness , they will get the job done with no worries for most general jobs . The high end ones are just way too expensive & unobtainable usually . 👍
As a 78 yo builder I've always enjoyed watching how intelligent men in the various trades found different ways to skin a cat. Being now retired and a wannabe machinist I'm equally awed by the considerations and intellect involved in creating this part. With all the shit going on in the World, watching stuff like this rekindles my respect
for the decent part of the human mind.
Thanks . Yes , some people running some countries really need to pull their heads in .
👍
How to set a dividing head for dummies. You made it simple for me to follow Max. Just at the right time as well. Great video......Tony
Cheers Tony . 👍
This video was intense. There is a ton of information being provided. If this was a sitcom, you'd have burned through a season's worth of jokes. Really fantastic video, I'm going to have watch this a few times.
Thanks 👍
Hi Max, in my job I have been very involved with gear theory and geometry over the past few years. What you say about the root clearance and (in your earlier video) the profile shift is spot on. I doubt this was done just to save money though. If the 12 tooth pinion was standard with 20 degree pressure angle, about 60% of the active flank under the pitch diameter wouldn’t transmit drive, which is bad, the less teeth the worse this effect. The profile shift also makes the pinion stronger and longer lasting (the smaller gear goes first). They do this on modern power generating windmills to stop premature fatigue failure of the pinion. If you were making this with a hob or a gear shaper it would all take care of itself with a standard cutter. The old idea about adding two teeth to get the OD is often not followed in modern manufacturing. Anyway kudos for your level of understanding, there can’t be many fitter and turners about, who knows what a profile shift is.
Thanks . I will agree with you about it giving a stronger tooth when you think about it . Cheers 👍
Excellent comment, I've never heard of this gear profile protocol, I've seen pinions like this, and fitted them, but never questioned the reason. Always good to learn from my 78 to 82 apprenticeship. I do remember plotting Involutes etc though.
Very interesting way of getting the job done, an unconventional part,-- and an unconventional way to cut that gear.
You are the type of guy that a captain of a sinking ship needs, when everything else is not working.
Shop is looking great, the HBM passed away last week, it is no longer on the critical list in the emergency room, it is in the morgue with a toe tag, but after seeing you cut one gear with three or four different cutting tools, anything is possible.
Don't do sinking ships , i float like a rock ! 👍
Max, you are a very clever lad. I havee watcheed a lot of RUclips machinists cut. gears but this is the first one using the techniques you are applying. Looking forward to the successful conclusion of this gear.
Thanks 👍
Great explanation and set-up of the job Max, can't wait for prt.2 😎
Thanks 👍
good video friend Max,,thanks for your time
Cheers 👍
Definitely a strange fish Max, it was only when I saw the old one setup to rough out, did i notice the teeth profile.
Not for the faint hearted, great job on setup and method.
Thanks for sharing
Cheers . I just think '' why me '' !!! 👍
@@swanvalleymachineshop Hi Max, I realised many moon's ago, that when GOD invented engineering, he laughed his Boll#$%ks off. Excellent description from one of your subscribers, never heard of this gear profile protocol.
Gidday Max, another great video as usual. Don't you just love these simple jobs.
Cheers . How come everyone else gets to cut standard gears !!! 👍
Impressive work, Max. Enjoyed.
Cheers Rob . 👍
Thanks, I really appreciate your work and your solution to the challenge of cutting what in the US we would call a "bastard" gear form. Of course here we, used to at least, encounter only diametral pitch spur gears but occasionally would come across a bastard form. In those days I would have ground a tool from high speed (cobalt if possible) to the needed form, put it in a fly cutter and single-point cut the gear in one pass. Naturally, we had to shoot from the hip sometimes on those late night emergency jobs, but we got it done somehow. It's great when you have the tooling at hand and the time to painstakingly do a precision job. Thanks again, great work!
Thanks . Odd gears are a bit like odd threads & we come across heaps this side of the globe . I call them Pakistani Cycle Threads ! ( named after the British Cycle Thread ! ) 👍
Another high caliber job max really enjoy this one
Cheers 👍
The idea that the gear cutter might be so slightly mis-shapen never occurred to me at all, but thank you for that lesson among many others.
No worries 👍
Hi Max. Very informative, quite a tough nut to crack... Thanks for taking the time to show and explain in detail the issue and the process. Way over my pay grade, but enjoying the ride...looking forward to part 2.
ATB....Cheers.....
Thanks Dean , Cheers 👍
I would definitely classify this a machinist video, you got the job done with what you had! Keep it up, the rest of us aren’t that smart!
Thanks 👍
Geez Max ive been practising and learning and are quite happy with myself but you've just got this shit wired. Thankyou for doing these videos. I have learned so much from them.
No worries . 👍
I haven’t seen such a cliff hanger since lost in space ,thanks Dwayne nz.
Ahh the robot , Warning , Warning Warning !!! 👍
I'll have to hunt through video's to find the one you did with the 'vernier'(?) center plate' I've heard about them but this is the first time I've actually seen one
I'm going to subscribe and binge watch more.
I've had to use a jewelers loupe last ten years to read vernier scales 😁
Thanks 👍
Thanks for the show Max 🍻🇦🇺
No worries 👍
What a great explanation. It's exactly what I needed. I have a 10 tooth gear (16DP / 20PA) that I need to figure out how to cut. This video really made me rethink about how to approach this task. Thanks for sharing. New sub here.
No worries 👍
Max, this is an amazingly detailed tutorial. I really appreciate taking us along on all the key in-process checks that are so often glossed over. Thank you - 👍👍😎👍👍
No worries 👍
Great presentation, Max. the "precision pool" you machinist dive into is really deep. Many thanks to the blokes who arrived at the math and the machining involved to make dividing heads. I'm sure there were a few restless nights and some mistakes along the way, but a cold one at the end of the day takes some of the pain away, cheers and thank you.
No worries 👍
" I've just had a change of plan " = what an honest Guy
Lol . 👍
Great video......Thanks for sharing....very educational and entertaining......Just finished my 1st set of change gears for cutting metric threads on my imperial lathe.
Thanks . Now you just have the hard part to do , the calculations driver over driven ....! 👍
Gday Max, lots to take away from this video, it’s definitely thinking outside the box to make it happen, great job mate, cheers
Thanks 👍
Great explanation of using the index plates on the dividing head. Super edisode.
Cheers 👍
Hello Max. This is a great gear cutting tutorial. One thing I was taught when using a dividing head was to move the sector arms by the trailing arm, not the leading arm. That way the arm you are pushing on strikes the pin and stops. If you use the leading arm, when the trailing arm strikes the pin you have the possibility of spreading the arms farther apart, causing an error. I often wonder if there is another trade that has as many tips/tricks as the machinist trade. Ken
Thanks Ken . These arms clamp together really good , but are really loose on the rotation ! There would be very few trades that have so many things that can pop up just doing a simple job . 👍
The gear is looking good so far Max. That gear may have been cheaper for the factory to make, But sure is a pain to machine a replacement. Looking forward to the next part. Cheers
Thanks . It was the last thing i was expecting when i first measured it up ! 👍
Great video Max. I have run into modified small gears like that, and will likely do one soon for my geared tailstock. The long winded way!
Thanks . I don't think there is an easy way to do them . 👍
Very good explanation. This was a lot more interesting than a bog standard gear cutting exercise. Cheers!
Thanks 👍
Great tutorial! Hard to compliment you in words that haven't already been said. I agree with all the praise given previously. Each time I found myself wondering why or how, you answered my questions like you could read my mind. All the double checking at critical stages just to be sure, is a skill not stressed enough. I enjoy and look froward to all of your posts! Thanks!👍👍⚙💯🍺
No worries 👍
Max I have seen this done many times and I must say this is the best detail explanation and pro-active trouble shooting that I have seen. I like many others just take it for granted that the cutters are out of the box correct, but it is pretty obvious that the Rice Cutters are suspect, and you have just proven it and also offered a solution. Thanks for taking the time to explain in detail. I'll be back for more.
No worries 👍
Very informative episode Max 👌
Cheers Chris
Thanks 👍
Looking good max, be up and running before you know it, great video, keep'um coming..
Thanks 👍
Great example of detailed indexing. Probably delving into specialty area. Gears is what enabled us to transfer power. Appreciated the instructional detail, as my memory of my boat winch was worth the effort.
Thanks 👍
G'day Max. Really tremendous video, showing the methods & execution of your gear cutting with the endmill as well as your Beefy looking Height Guage.
Your endmill ripped through the shaft material, & left a reasonably good finish.
Looking forward to your next Installment.
Thanks Ted . 👍
Looking good !! .....the shop too !!
Cheers 👍
thanks for sharing max.
cheers ben.
No worries 👍
Heaps of interesting information in this episode, Max 👍. I’m glad you added the check for symmetry of the gear cutter profile; it’s something I might not have thought up on my own.
No worries 👍
Excellent presentation Max.
Good way to preserve the cutters.
I always count hole spacings, can't Bozo it.
I got one of our Apprentices to cut 127 tooth gear for my Hercus 9a, stuffed up on the first but got it right on the second one back in the late eighties.
Good exercise in differential indexing.
Your indexing head would do it nicely without a gear train.
My Brother still cuts metric threads with that gear.
Thanks . It would probably take me 2 goes with differential indexing as well ! Have not done it since we had to make a spiral flute reamer as an apprentice . 👍
Nice work Max, I've had to do a similar thing with unusual early clock pinions where a commercial cutter isn't available...
Thanks . It would be difficult with clock gears , being so small . 👍
@@swanvalleymachineshop it's the watches where it gets really tricky 😆
Interesting solution to a problem!
Thanks 👍
Hi max, thank you for another awesome video.
From kiwi land.
No worries 👍
Well described Max, that dividing head is a beast. I note you are cutting in reverse and towards the tailstock, guessing deliberately so to aid with the visibility on the setup? Cheers, Jon
Thanks Jon . So i can see what the cutter is going to do . It will become more apparent in part 2 , there is a lot of set up by eye . 👍
Holy Cow! that's the long way around the block Max. But hey if it works...It works. Good stuff as always. Cheers
Thanks 👍
Max, you pick the challenging ones.
But the part is probably un-obtanium so
You have to make it anyway.
Keeps life interesting, don’t it!
That's the problem with machine repairs , never any parts available . 👍
Good stuff. Thanks Max!
Cheers Tom . 👍
Just imagine you have to do this for a custommer. That shaft would cost a fortune :)
Yes it would ! 👍
Thanks mate realy interesting upload cheers.
No worries 👍
That is a lot of work. I imagine they used custom cutters. But this tooth shape does result in stronger teeth. I usually prefer to use the circle with the fewest holes so my count of the holes is less likely to be wrong and I can more easily see if the arms have slipped when turning them around. I’ve never understood why these manufacturers all seem to have made such a flimsy method to secure the arms. One very short, tiny screw. I’ve seen the threads in the arm stripped out by someone who didn’t feel it was tight enough.
My arms have 2 lock screws . But yes , not much to hold them . 👍
G'day Max,, i have watched a lot of youtubers cutting gears,, but this is the most comprehensive yet and did'nt lose me with boredom. well explained all the way through. really waiting for the conclusion. do you recommend for a beginner such as me to buy chinese cutters to begin with??👍👍
Thanks . I think most of those Chinese cutters are much of a muchness , they will get the job done with no worries for most general jobs . The high end ones are just way too expensive & unobtainable usually . 👍
thanks@@swanvalleymachineshop
Holy smokes, I wonder if it would even be more work to cut a normal pinion, and a rack to match.
Cutting a new rack would be a massive job , as it is 2 meters long ! 👍
Look good max
Thanks 👍
Max @34:30 “ I could hear it with my ears” amazingly not your feet😜 ❤👍🏴
Lol , i did not realise i had said it that way until editing ! Oh well , that's what happens when you roll without a script . 👍
Thanks max
No worries 👍
Thx for the vid.
Cheers 👍
Loved the 'Anti-Bozo' remark!
Cheers 👍
i hatted fractions at school now i know why they importiant
I still hate them ! 👍
im surprised you didn't make a single point cutter Max?
I don't have a dooverlackey to hold one ! 👍
@@swanvalleymachineshop ahahaha
👍
Cheers 👍👍👍
See if you used the shaper you could have ground a tool to fit lol
Lol , then i would have to make up an indexing attachment . Or send it to Rustinox ! 👍
I defy anyone to watch this and not play Machinists' Playschool - count along with Max.
Spot on. I watched the video through the round window......Tony
I was watching through the Arched window ! 👍
Excellent education here Max! Thanks for your time and skills.
No worries 👍