That short S-curve is a bit mean for anything, which is why it's good that you (as a reviewer) have it there. The traditional wisdom I've always read is "put a straight section longer than your longest rolling stock between the two curves" but of course that isn't always going to be possible. And clearly these coaches are, unfortunately, not going to be suitable for some layouts.
That, and crossovers (and - by extension - double crossovers) inherently have S-curves, but perhaps not as sharp as Sam’s track. So if the rolling stock will go through Sam’s S-curve, then they’ll go through a crossover without much problem. 😊
That is why I watch Sam's Trains, as if stuff runs ok on his Layout. The Product will make it around my Layout..! He has Saved me Money in the Past & he No Doubt will do it Again...! All Hail Sam's Trains..!👍🙏👍 Cheers from Downunder 🦘🦘 (where OO cost's a BOMB..!)
@@kimcason8764no joking it really does cost a bomb there, i just sent my brother a suitcase full of his old model railways from when we where kids, it was cheaper to pay the £500 delivery fees than re purchase all of his stuff, even the older hornby stuff is bonkers priced, stay safe and have fun in the sun, your winter is probably warmer than our summer
Yeah, Cost of Postage is a Killer, but the import duty's Added to it all is a Real Kick in the..... Pants, to any deal..! 😂 As for Weather or Winter Downunder. After 40 yrs of Living in Adelaide it does get a Tad Nippy. Eg. 5/6°C over night and 12/14°C during the Day. But this year has been Oddly Cold. Winds straight up from Antarctica...! With 'B...er All' between us, to warm it up..! But it's Warmer than Canberra..! They can even get Frost & Snow. I guess, I have Softened up some since coming from London/Essex. I do remember being Snowed in..! So I Shouldn't be too much of a 'Whinging Pom..!' 😂 Cheers 'Ava Good one..! 🦘🐪🦘🦎🦘
It is the bogies catching on the underframe truss that cause the derailments. The truss has not been fitted properly. It has been known about since the first batch. Dapol said to friend of mine who rang to complain about them, that they are probably Friday afternoon coaches. The notch in the truss should be further up behind the solebar. It is there to clear a crossbeam on the underfloor.
Yes i have had the same problem, i recon eather a small file or make a 1/2mm shim to space the boogies down will solve it, i only get it on 1 bend on 1 coach in one direction
I've found this to be the main reason for derailmens. I hesitate to tamper wiythe bogies, but the answer would be to inset a washer between bogie and spring. Anyone tried this?
@@michaelliles693 you would have to put it between the bogies and the chassis, that woud raise the hight so it clears, puting it under the spring will just add tension
I appreciate that dapol have at least attempted to create a more realistic coupling solution. My biggest issue with the UK model railway scene is the unrealistic couplings. I always imagine the passengers having to do long jumps between the carriages 😂
I have a rake of these, but found the dapol connector bars were difficult to fit, and disconnect. I have substituted the shortest Hunt Ultra magnetic couplings which make putting them on and off the layout so much easier. The slightly more relaxed coupling distance also means they can take S bends. As another comparison, I paid £51 each for my coaches, less expensive than the £54 Accurascale Syphons..
Continental modelers have enjoyed outstanding close-coupling systems for decades. I have a set of new Roco coaches that one can barely see daylight between on a straight, and which will navigate R2 curves and my (more subtle than Sam's) S-curve. There's really no excuse.
@@hughoconnor9172 The lack of gangways isn't the issue though. The Roco system I mentioned would allow these to be realistically coupled buffer-to-buffer and still be able to negotiate 2nd radius curves.
Get some kadee nem couplers. I've been an HO guy for a few years and have just started getting into 00 to go alongside my HO. You can replace the European style couplers with the kadees pretty easily.
The derailing issues are most likely due to the bogies catching on the truss rods on the underframe. This in turn is due to a design flaw which has seen the truss rods come out slightly too long where they bend upwards at each end To see what I mean go and look at the truss near one of the bogies - in the upper side you will notice a small notch. This notch should align and press up against part of the chassis detail (hence the reason for the notch in the first place) - but it doesn’t - instead there is an air gap and the notch is fully visible from the outside of the model. To fix the problem you need to break the glue holding the outer ends of the truss rods against the chassis, then remove a tiny amount of material until the notch is able to sit snugly against the chassis detail. Once this happens the outer ends of the truss ridding can be glued in place. Repeat this a further 3 times and you will find the bogies no longer catch on the truss rods and will be able to negotiate 2nd radius curves without issue.
Thank you for this review Sam! This has answered so many questions I have had with my own Toplight coaches. I purchased the era 2 variety and wanted them for my Dapol Mogul 4321 era 2 steam loco. Whilst they look good with the loco, I must admit that with a full rake of 6, the train really does struggle to pull them around a loop, to such an extent that it will resort to wheel slipping on 3rd radius curves. As you have mentioned, the coupling of these coaches are a nightmare and I have constantly been at odds with the couplings coming out of their guides, resulting in one of my brake coaches being damaged and needing repair. However the worst aspect of these coaches is the constant derailing. Even on my second radius loop, which is a simple oval, the coaches derail. I have discovered that one of the reasons might be because one of the wheel sets in one of the bogies is very loose and I think is out of gauge. The couplings, however, do not help with the issue either. I have been tearing up and replanning my track for weeks and weeks on end because of these coaches always derailing on certain sections, sometimes with success, other times with no change whatsoever. Whilst I will agree that these coaches do look good, I will say that they have been poor performers and, in all honesty, I would not really recommend them. It is a shame because they look beautiful, however there is no point having something that looks nice which isn't going to run well.
I really like the "permanent coupling" option that these have! 95% of US prototype models are individually coupled, which is nice from a realism standpoint but is a pain when very minor variations of heights means coaches uncouple by themselves
I’d argue that sounds symptomatic of a trackwork or coupler height issue, as a fellow American prototype modeller. My trackwork isn’t perfect by any means, but I’ve principally had this issue with my US rolling stock when the couplings aren’t correctly set to the standard height.
Wonderful coaches and a very fair review Sam. All those features are of course to be expected in that price range. And finally seeing reality based short couplings on an OO layout. The S-curve is nice for testing of course but a big no-no for proficient layout builders. However, in your case it serves a well good case for examining the limits of performance aspects. We gather that Dapol are catering towards well versed modellers perhaps. However, it must be said that in all of your tests, Dapol always seem to have issues with couplings somehow; something they struggle with to get them adequate, which is quite odd. The tail light being wrongly wired is interesting..., how on earth could such happen..., truly mind boggling. Lovely coaches and a very just review. Some work to do by Dapol. Cheerio.
Yeah absolutely - lovely coaches overall! You certainly wouldn't be building s-bends into a proper layout, but I feel all rolling stock should be able to handle all kinds of track, which is why I didn't let them off! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
One thing Sam failed to observe/mention was the brake coach is printed as "brke coach" on the box. I initially thought it was abbreviated to fit the available space but soon concluded it was an error.
On a DC track the brightness of the lights increases when you increase power. At low power they are a bit dim, but by the time you increase power to about 50% they have reached full brightness, and it is good enough to clearly see in a lit room.
I have these coaches and the quality was superb. Inside a review and found they ran lovely once I had the longer couplings. Being dcc the wiring wasn't an issue either.
I've seen a few caboose models with DCC plugs to control the tail lights and turn the interior lights on and off. So it's not totally unheard of in model railroading. These coaches were built to run in fixed sets, hence why Dapol only included standard couplings with the brake coaches. The only ran outside of fixed sets after 1956, when they were all converted to works coaches.
They may have interior lights, they may have a metal base, they may have remarkable detail….but if they don’t go around a track, then they’re totally useless!
@@SamsTrains That would be an interesting bet! I would think years ago that would be the case but with increasing use of flexi track that number has surely diminished- except for those with 3 rail layouts! There's very few exhibitors on RUclips using such track;. Once you're past the train set stage and moved into more elaborate track formations; especially as certain models cannot use tight radius curves; I still think their use is declining.
Additions like the tiny windows above the main windows make this look really special, even with the poobrown topcoat (not overly fond of the colour but it’s applied expertly). :) :) I’m sure a man of your standing can make them run better with a bit of fettling, too. I know that’s not the point, in review conditions but it’s nice to know they’ll get properly used when you’ve had a look.
Wonderful song choice of "Shine on Harvest Moon" by Dave Stamper and first performed by the team of Nora Bayes & Jack Norworth and they performed the "Tin Pan Alley" song on the stage of the Ziegfeld Follies in 1908. As for the coaches, I was rooting for an "A" after seeing the detail but was disappointed when you ran into so many problems with the performance. I think you were also hopeful for a good showing, oh well. If you reach out to Dapol I hope you do an update video on the results or lack of. Great review and video, Jersey Bill
I've just ordered the Third Class coach from Derails & was sorely tempted to get the Brake as well but something told me to try just the one first! Instinct i guess & you've just proved it i was right! Like you i fell for the gorgeous livery. Feel for you Sam having splashed out on all three but as we know in this wonderful hobby of ours you win some & lose some as i've found to my cost particularly with loco's.
This reminds me of Hornbys Coronation coaches. They kept derailing on my layout with its 28 foot straights. I finally sorted them and with 2 of the new Coronation Locos at full speed their scale speed at the top was 35mph. There was just so much drag the locos could not deal with them. Design over function!
Overall delighted with my Toplights but agree that the couplings are a clear own-goal by Dapol! I may be lucky with mine as although very close on radius 2, ran ok but the bar couplings are an issue. The bar couplings are just daft and very difficult to connect and disconnect without a lot of difficulty. Maybe Dapol assume we all have room for permanently coupled rakes of coaches!? Replaced them with some West Wagon Works ultra close magnetic Hunt Couplings and now easy to get on and off my layout. No issues on rad 2 curves…
Looks like Dapol attempted to reinvent the wheel when it came to the couplings and got results representative of that. The upside down coupling hooks was funny, even if the result is fiddling around with parts that should have come correct out of the box. I hope Dapol reworks the couplings provided and/or installed out of the box for the coaches for subsequent production runs. I love GWR Chocolate and cream coaches and really want to buy a rake of BR MK1s or GWR Collett/Hawksworth coaches to run behind my Castles and Kings. Also Sam, is your Torquay Manor slowing down on curves? Got an Accurascale Hinton Manor that does the same thing on second radius curves. The motor seems to want more than 50% to run through without much slowing down
I have a set of 6 of these coaches. I found the oddly-built coupling as well. Try putting together a complete set of 6 on their backs and then turning them over to put them on the track! The first thing I have done is to buy a set of Hunt magnetic close couplings to ensure I can make up a rake and take it apart again without breaking the coupling housings. I find that the set is so heavy and stiff that a new Dapol Mogul cannot pull the set of 6 up a 1 in 100 slope around a 3ft radius curve! Dapol recommend their 61xx as the suitable loco, I have one on order so we shall see whether this will work. Both of my brake coaches seem to be wired up backwards as only the one at the front of the train behind the loco is illuminated. This is really disappointing from Dapol as I agree with you that the detail and decoration are superb, which is why I decided to buy a complete set.
Further to my last, I have found that the problems of bogies fouling the underframes can easily be solved by simply slackening off the bogie pivot screws a turn or two, this allows the springs to raise the coach bodies.
Thankyou for running Torquay Manor, kisses on each cheek for that. Not to make Chloe jealous, you understand. I have Bachmann Branchlines Chocolate & Cream Mk. 1 coaches, which run over 2nd radius curves a lot better than the Toplight ones you purchased. The Toplights are nice as you say, but not worthy of anyone with 2nd radius curves. Torquay Manor suits Chocolate & Cream Mk. 1s of Bachmann status a lot better. Please can you take us trainspotting on your railway? I miss that sort of video very much.
Derailments - My final offering. I had success with disengaging (removing actually but disengaging works) the brake pull rod from the actuator to the bogie brake gear, which seems to act as a centring spring, just where you don't want one.
Dapol bar couplings - Razor saw down the middle of the vee (down to the solid bar itself) lets the tangs squeeze together easier, then one or two swipes with a file across the spikes so they go in the pocket easier (not too much you don't want them pulling out too easily). Derailments - stiff bogies getting caught on something, haven't solved that one yet. Suspected the "pips" on the bogie spring tops hitting the truss rods but not sure.
Get yourself some Hunt magnetic couplings , the Ultra Close type, to fit between the composite and third Sam. They'll go round your tights curves then. I agree totally about the bar coupling set up, a recipe for damaging the coaches when fitting them.
Great Video Sam, Firstly & Obviously the Coaches look Fantastic, Great Details, Colour with lights even on DC. Just Great..! That said, "What is it with Dapol and Coupling's, it always seems to be an Issue.?" As for your Layout, I think it's Perfect, as a Test Track..! Not all of us have the Space, Money, Time & a Perfectly Layed out Track that some do..! People get stuck into you about your Lay Out. Carpet, Uneven, ect ect..! But for 'Pushing a Product to it's Extremes,' it's Bloody Perfection. This Tests Product with Everyone in Mind. E.G. The User that 'Throws Track Down to Amuse the Kids.' Right Down (or Up) to 'The Lucky Bu**er who can Dedicate a Whole room to a Perfect Permanant Layout that Does NOT need to be Moved Ever..!' I am somewhere in the Middle with sections of Both. A Layout that is Stable, but with an option to Extend, that's not so Perfect..! So These Coaches may not be for Me..! So I Now Know maybe I shouldn't Rush out & Throw $$$ down on these Coaches. ( although I am Tempted.)😂 Great Review Sam, well Done..! Cheers All, from Downunder. 🦘🦘
The nearest equivalent I have in terms of features and price are my Hornby LMS Coronation coaches which also have lights. They have an RRP of £60.49 and at the retailers they tend to go for £50 but I've seen them as low as £40. They don't have the diecast chassis or rear tail light, level of detail is good, similar to the Dapol but they don't have the running or coupling issues. Obviously the livery is very different, but in terms of value the Hornby Coronation coaches are cheaper and much better runners/couplers.
Thanks for a wonderful review again Sam. Yes - Tail Light. I have received two brakes of "set 2" type (fully lined C & C) and the tail light are wired the wrong way 'round too. I have notified Dapol & Rails but have yet to hear anything. If it's a simple fix I'll do it myself but somehow I don't think It's gonna be. I'll wait to hear first. I doubt Dapol will recall them all for that. In any case, the lamps should be red bodied It's a shame they don't perform on reverse curves either - even though you have the recommended straight track between them. Shame they can't be fully recommended.
Ahh interesting - so it's not just a one off issue - is it fixable by turning the blanking plug around or not?? Very silly issue! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Sam, at 18:08, look at the mother board versus the blanking plug. On the mother board there are numbers 1-6 going from "top to bottom," while on the blanking plug the numbers go 6-1 from "top to bottom." So it looks like the blanking plus is installed backwards.
@@SamsTrains Simple reversing of the blanking plate (which incidentally is numbered correctly in the brake coach) makes the tail lamp work correctly, but the coach lights then go out in the forward direction........There is a connector supplying power from the track to the roof PCB. I'm going to try a reversal there now.
Dapol produce some great models but the assembly and running needs some serious attention, I think you should send them back to get fixed. Great review Sam God bless you both.
I complained to Dapol about the couplings as I found the bar couplings almost impossible to fit ( i broke 2 of the socket springs ) .Once the long ones were fitted they would still not negotiate 2nd radius curves. I had an even harder job getting them out again ! Consequently I had to purchase some normal couplings myself. A really poor design which lets down an otherwise lovely coach. Dapol obviously assume everyone has an end to end layout and will never remove the coaches from the layout. I did get a reply , but no admission of it being there fault. Hopefully other people will voice there concerns to Dapol so they may learn some lessons !
Re- couplings. The real coaches were ALLWAYS formed into fixed sets of 6 coaches (Brake either end sandwiching 2X thirds and 2X composites) plus the buffers / draw gear on intermediate ends were of such a configuration that they were not to be coupled to other stock. As such Dapols lack of tension locks for the composite and full third reflects prototypical practice.
Hoping the forthcoming GW panelled auto coaches and top light corridor stock run better. Unfortunately these M/line City stock were rather restricted in their pro typical use.
Such a shame they derail so easily, kinda giving me flashbacks to the egg vans😰. I also noticed that when running, your Manor’s centre axle on the tender is stuck, it’s visible on 24:31. Great review and other than derailing, these are stunning coaches.
Could you try the magnetic coupling by one of the many companies that make them, I think these would work better than the solid bar coupling when making long trains, great vid in all!
Thanks for another thorough - and very watchable - review. Shame about the performance issues, like the couplings, but great to see the wonderful features such as the lighting. Seeing as they are chipped for DCC, maybe another 'operable' feature would be braking - so that, when you back a loco down on the train, the coaches stay still, as with the real thing. It would be better to have a braking system that worked rather than a beautifully detailed but non-working one that only adds to the bogie problems! Look forward to your next video
Excellent review, been looking to buy some from the second batch, but you just saved me £200 .Was going to get them from Olivias Trains as they are £49 each there!. Mind you bought a HD A4 from Rails last week in the sale for £200! Keep up with the honest reviews, regards -Richard.
Coupling assembly upside down!?!? Thanks Sam - that was the only issue I had with my coaches -auto decoupling from my loco - running excellent now though 🙂
Wow. The little handles on the doors look like they’re formed from bits of actual copper wire; I’d say 26 ga. (AWG). If those are plastic, then Dapol have the nicest copper paint I’ve ever seen! And notice the little hinges, too. This is one of the nicest paint jobs I’ve seen; certainly up there with the likes of Rapido and Athearn (USA/Canada, anyway.) It easily bears scrutiny when the coaches are whizzing by on setting 40 on Sam’s controller! 😅 It’s almost worth getting one of these just as a display piece!
About how I mentioned I sent you a package, it's some HO scale American passenger cars. You'll be able to see them when you finally pick up the package, I'm eager to see what you think of them
Ooh! That will be fun to see him running in future! What types of passenger cars? Or do you want to keep it a surprise? Were they still sealed? Do you think he'll be able to review them?
These remind me of the old short Triang/Hornby clerestory coaches; This made me think that maybe Dapol could do some generic short wheelbase bogie coaches a bit like Hornby and Hattons did with 4 and 6 wheelers.
Hi Sam, Love your videos. Was wondering why you don’t want to use DCC. I feel like like promoting more DCC will help more people get into the hobby as people find more things to do more interested in the hobby. Speaking from personal experience.
From my own perspective, the sheer cost of DCC fitted locomotives is prohibitive, so I would say that Sam’s approach of using more affordable DC models is probably a good one.
This is really interesting I have the BR red ones and they are perfect. I must admit I fitted close coupled magnetic fittings because initially the NEM ones gave too big a gap. Mine run perfectly even the lights are brighter although I do run on DCC. I did have issues with points before I fitted the magnetic fittings. I did find the magnetic couplings from porterhouse models were the best as they have an extra swivelling action which is probably why mine work so well.
Have a look at the bogies. See if the wheel sets have any slackness in the wheel bearins. Most 00 gauge coach bogies have wheel sets that slackness in the bearings. This means that they are self compensating. I suspect these dapol bogies hold the wheel sets in a rigid way that won't allow the wheels to follow any undulations in your track on second radius curves. Hence the derailments.
Yeah there's very little slack on the axles - fixed quite rigidly, as evidenced by the stiff running, and the flanges are extremely fine, so they're much more sensitive to uneven trac than other models! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains That is what I thought. Maybe a fresh set of bogies would help. Are these Dapol wheel sts pinpointed axle ends or plain? Pity about the running issues as these coaches look great. All they need to pull them is a 2-4-0t Metro Tank locomotive. South Eastern Finecast market a kit for one.
They're pinpoint, but they have the plastic sleeves between the wheels to insulate between them - I've heard this is causing gauging issues too, though mine were okay on gauge Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Probably the best coaches out there right now .. see what accuracale and rapido come up with .,.i doubt the modelers with worry about them derailing as they will be runing them on more realistic curves and points etc These like a lot of high end products now are not for the on carpet/6 by 4 foot board right angle bend wizz round toy layout .. .. they are for when you have been inspired to move on from that .. well;done Dapol showing what high level of detail and features can be acheived for a good price .. .i will by buying a few
Yeah I'd be surprised if there were issues on better layouts - but the flanges are very fine, so they're sensitive to trackwork, much more so than other RTR coaches! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains if you want fine flanges try p4/s4 i was doing that 40 years ago ... How about running trains through the 3 sizes of radius points peco make .. be a good test as most of use Peco .. Im sure you could add it in somewhere
With the brake light, if the wires seem correct, might be worth checking and diodes fitted. If these have been installed the wrong way round, i could see that causing the tail lamp issue. Also some in the comments mentioned the DCC blanking plate, also worth a look.
The blanking plug looks to be in the wrong way up; on my example the plain side of the blanking plug is visible, rather than the side with the components on, and on my example the tail lamp lights up when it should! Cheers.
Unfortunately the people in charge of choosing which characters Bachmann features said they have to stick to more recently featured characters (One of them said he'd love to feature Stepney, but it was very unlikely as he hadn't appeared in the show in years). At least Lady's future prospects aren't crippled by an NMRA code violation like Diesel 10's prospects are. Sure, you could model him with Pinchy withdrawn, but it just wouldn't be the same... a Diesel 10 with no claw just doesn't seem like that much of an improvement on a diesel 10 that wipes out all your bridges.
Hey Sam, got an idea for ya. What if you had a flatbed that you load with weights? It would be a pretty simple demonstration of tractive effort. "Looks like she can pull a kilo, but to be fair, that's probably due to the traction tyres."
Decent review here Sam, while I don’t have any of these I bought some great western coaches recently, the ones I have though are the Hornby Collett Corridor ones
They should be testing the coaches on S bends before they go into final production. I don't blame your track work at all. The other coaches don't seem to have a problem with it.
Good Lord, these may have derailed harder than the Dapol egg vans. I know the layout is partially to blame, but this is a letdown when any other coach has traversed your S-curve. Assuming you don’t get a refund, I hope you are able to rewire them to where they work properly. I don’t know how you’re going to fix that tail lamp…
I would suggest these coaches are aimed at the other end of the market to the train set brigade. They don't derail on my layout using the longer bar coupling supplied.
I'm surprised the "backwards" tension lock issue has persisted in this second batch. It was a problem with the first run which got may comments, yet they don't appear to have done anything about it.
Honestly, it seems like you are being way too generous in your scoring. Performance should be one of the most important things factoring into the final score. Without performance everything else is meaningless since it's not fit for purpose. It could be detailed to the level of proper stitching on the seats, and it's quality being basically indestructible all for a 1/10 of what these cost, but if it's derailing like every foot even on straight aways and the wheels are essentially locked up those other factors don't matter it should be an F. A coach that was essentially just a cardboard box with the details drawn on by crayon, that cost 10x as much but performed flawlessly should be higher rated since at least that would fill it's primary purpose of being rolling stock.
Not sure I agree with this take. Models are sold based on how realisticly they've captured the prototype's look. Performance is important but I'm not going to pay top dollar for a model that looks garbage even if it's the best performing loco out there.
@@HzYDuB I am not saying you should pay top dollar for a model that looks like garbage, or even that such a model should get even a mediocre rating, Just that all together such a model should just eek out a slightly higher rating at least as rolling stock. (and that's also not to such a poor performing model wouldn't have value as say decoration)
Stunning looking coaches in my desired livery. I think i'd sooner have a dummy tail light then the chunky offering we see in rtr. Shame about the performance issues. Imagine a full 6 coach set with poor performance at £55 a pop... If I could I would though. Thanks Sam
Thanks for that review Sam, I really, really wanted a rake of the lined crimson versions, but - yikes. I do only have third radius and larger streamline track but I will now try and ask one of the chaps nicely in my model railway club to borrow some toplights to run on my layout before I part with 200 quid for four of those very pretty coaches. Cheers for the heads-up!
I run third radius curves and have a full set of the lined crimsons, they're fine on my (quite roughly laid) track. They're fine on the second radius siding point curves as well. I don't like the fixed bar couplings provided so use a set of Hornby's close couplings in the middle of the set, with a regular tension hook at each end of the train.
Back in the day, BR coach lighting was pretty dim - like a few 12 volt bicycle lights, dim and yellow. With all those issues in performance, many seem to be manufacturing errors, and so quality must surely be very low, despite the nice paint job? 2* max, surely?
Most of the time trouble with couplings is due to the "advanced" kinematic type having powerful return springs which force vehicles off the track. I just wish manufacturers wouldn't bother. I suppose they do it so they can brag about having a feature and get favourable reviews.
Dapol make superbly detailed rolling stock, most of it, especially the wagons, at reasonable prices but in my experience, they have been let down by basic issues such as droopy couplings and derailing on curves.
I visited Derails on Friday morning with the intention of buying all six of set 2 with the lined choc & cream livery. Sadly the tail light issue is present on that set also. The issue could not be resolved despite the efforts of Derails very helpful staff. Strangely I am the only person to have flaged up this issue despite them selling many of those coaches. Reluctantly I left without the coaches with Derails determined to contact Dapol on Monday morning morning to find a resolution. Difficult due to the solid state electrics!!! ???
Hi Sam, just an idea, how about adding a small shim or spacing washer above the bogie pivots. Might help lift the body up just enough to have clearance between bogie and truss under frame?
Sorry Sam but you say it yourself. Is it time for you to build a layout at waist height in the loft?. You do go against some manufacturers because you are running trains on track that is on carpet.
Well, it DOES provide vital warnings for other people who run trains on carpet layouts. I, for one, run trains on carpet layouts, although I use track with built-in roadbed (Bachmann E-Z track by Bachmann of America), so I suspect some of the effects are mitigated.
Far too generous. I don't see how a coach that doesn't freewheel, has dodgy and wrong fitted couplings, derails, has a faulty rear light and has dim lighting deserves anything but 1 star, 2 at most in performance, quality and value for money.
Maybe the bar couplings are just to rigid for S bends - individual couplings have a little bit of flex, where they connect so I wonder if they'd be better with tension locks or even a close coupling like Roco or Kaydee. As for the drag, maybe a bit of electrolube on the brass pinpoint bearings. I expect them to be tight to help conduct the power to the lights. OK they should be better straight from the box, but it might be easy to correct.
It doesn't seem to be the couplings after all - I tried pushing each coach around the curve alone and they derail most of the time - could be the finescale flanges! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I want to remind everyone that a full set (6 coaches) would cost £294 from the cheapest retailer I can find. Additional reminder: These were often pulled by small pre-grouping tank engines (think 455 and later 48xx/14xx) so the amount of resistance in those wheels is not on. Could you imagine one of the upcoming dapol 1400s (or worse, an old hornby one!) hauling 6 of those because I sure as hell can’t. Edit: As a side note, they do look really nice, and I really want a set to be honest, the derailing isn’t an issue for me since I have the ability to run everything on a minimum of 4th radius, and my layout is flat, but for most they just don’t work.
Interesting video,, great as always Sam, such a shame.. Any idea how they compare to Hornby Pullmans? With lit tables lamps... which are the best looking coaches in my collection.. 🙈
There are multiple assembly issues with these, the derailing you are experiencing is because the truss bars on the chassis are not fitted properly and foul the top of the bogies. The other big problem with these is VERY inconsistent wheel back to backs, sometimes so tight that they derail on point check rails and proprietary level crossings. My local shop has had a lot of returns of these coaches. The most humorous thing about them, the recommended Dapol decoder doesn't fit into the provided space in the PCB! I'd rather spend £60 on a lower spec Bachmann coach and KNOW it'll work perfectly rather than spend £55 and it be a lottery whether it'll work. Crapol strikes again.
Thanks for sharing Simon - I'll have to look at the trusses and the gauges, thank you! Blimey surprised at these cock ups by Dapol - they've been so much better recently! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I had the same issue with the Dapol Imperium 4 recently. Apparently that is an instruction error - it should be a Dapol Imperium 5 (which is shorter and is the one used in the photo in the instructions). I note that it does say Imperium 5 on Dapol's web site when I last checked).
The reason for the poor rolling test/running is clear from a shot of a bogie at time 14:44. The RH axle is clearly not perpendicular to the frame and neither it seems is the LH axle. It would seem this is at yet another different angle to the frame. This is a major manufacturing flaw that should have ben spotted! If it doesn't roll (DUH). The most basic kit builder knows how important getting both axles parallel to each other and perpendicular to the frames.
Trains had a combination of smoking and non smoking into the 1990s IIRC. I think there was typically one smoking out of every four carriages but the ratio might have been higher in the past. On commuter lines the regulars knew where to stand to get on the appropriate carriage. You really didn't want to spend even a few seconds walking through a smoking carriage to get to the next one. The trains I used regularly had large ventilation outlets on the sides and the outsides next to them were a dirty black, an accurate representation of the state of the passenger's lungs.
The bogie in the video was not in line with the under frame so it was evident that it was not correct to start with. The wire, a nice detail, must contribute to the rigidity for supposedly tight curves. Also Sam your suggestion that your layout may not be the best I rather suspect it is the norm. A good and constructive review which I hope Dapol will reflect on.
What a shame that Dapol couldn’t get the performance right - not much use for a model railway if they’re static. Couplings always seem to be a weak point of theirs, too. I’ve lost count of the number of dodgy couplings I have on their rolling stock.
I did see a report that the BR Carmine coach set had very bright lights (in their opinion). Could Dapol be playing with the resistors in the lighting circuit to better match the brightness to the coach period?? Yours are 1934-1942 period livery.
What you need to do is to replace your set track "S" curves with a flexi-track "S" curve. Flexi-track S curves would solve some of your issues. Along with that, you can cut flex-track to the desired length, and is smoother. Have you tried magnetic, or even the real looking knuckle couplers? If they have any manufacturing faults, it would be straight back to the retailer, for a replacement, repair or refund and wouldn't give them a rating, especially with the fault of the wires & coupler issues.
I don’t think it’s worth relaying my track for a single set of coaches really, not when everything else is fine! I’d rather find out what the issue with the coaches is…
If I would buy these coaches I would rather expect chain link couplings if normal couplings are not provided , than the bar ones which are not realistic and hard to couple. Regarding the tail light , if the bogeys can turn 180⁰ degrees just try to turn both bogeys and then the light should work in the correct direction.
Yeah - if you've got a professional grade layout and don't mind potentially having to rewire the lights, you should be fine... otherwise, not great! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
What a shame that these amazingly detailed coaches, virtually of museum quality, have been let down by derailing issues. Let alone the inverted couplings, which I have found the very devil to reverse! On two of he first coaches I bought, the nem pockets simply fell off. Seeing no way I could re-attach them, I returned them to Sheffield Rails, who to their credit replaced them (plus postage) promptly. I have replaced all the bar couplings for now, while I work on avoiding derailmants. My layout has very generous curves, the only tight ones are on Peco's "large bradius" turnouts. What a pity Peco dont produce really large radius turnous. as they do for their North American range (code 83).
Good video Sam, I guess the only way to see why the coaches derail is replicate the 2nd radius curves on a sheet of clear perspex and run coaches over and film/view from under perspex to see bogies in action?? Strange they buzz through points but get caught out on those pesky 2nd radius!
Yeah that would be interesting - little tricky to see what's happening - I wonder if it's in combination with my incline?? Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Re coach lighting Given the lighting in said coaches was driven by crude batteries and only ran at 24V of course it’s going to be dim! Moreover during the day the interior lights would be switched off - it would only be turned on by the guard if the train was scheduled to be passing through a tunnel (and most likely switched off again as soon as it passed through said feature to preserve battery life) In other words if Dapol have done their job properly then not being able to see the lights being on during the day is entirely correct and is in no way a flaw with the product.
Those bogies are a great example of poor design. The springs on the bolsters (screw holding it on) is useless, as it only allows flexibility that messes with the weight distribution. The wires should also should have much more slack. At least this coach would be a prime example to show off the superior performance of Chris Pendleton/Dave Bradwell type sprung bogies with Alan Gibson bearings, or Kadee/Central Valley type sprung bogies, both of which will make the reliability impeccable, make the coaches appear much more realistic while running, and Gibson bearings will make the wheels nearly frictionless. Also, it feels so odd being on holiday and having you videos come out during dinner instead of right after lunch! Thanks as always Sam.
This is such a shame because they look beautiful. I know you were being humble regarding your track not being the best but I don’t know if I’d risk purchasing these with the performance issues
I'm happy to have NOT bought a complete rake (I'm waiting for a Rivarossi DB BR 56 this month). The disastrous performance is a complete no-go for me, I'm not an addict of shelf queens.
I've been very tempted by these coaches, they do look fantastic, shame their performance is a little lacking. It's perhaps fortunate that I'm currently keeping my money aside for the eventual fulfilment of my Hattons Genesis Phase 2 pre-orders by Rails of Sheffield. Who knows, perhaps by that time, there'll be some of these on offer somewhere....
![Gunna - HIM ALL ALONG [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HiCxoDeo0hc/mqdefault.jpg)
That short S-curve is a bit mean for anything, which is why it's good that you (as a reviewer) have it there. The traditional wisdom I've always read is "put a straight section longer than your longest rolling stock between the two curves" but of course that isn't always going to be possible. And clearly these coaches are, unfortunately, not going to be suitable for some layouts.
That, and crossovers (and - by extension - double crossovers) inherently have S-curves, but perhaps not as sharp as Sam’s track. So if the rolling stock will go through Sam’s S-curve, then they’ll go through a crossover without much problem. 😊
Yeah I was kind of thinking of crossovers too - you don't get much options in terms of how much straight space is between your switches for those.
That is why I watch Sam's Trains, as if stuff runs ok on his Layout.
The Product will make it around my Layout..!
He has Saved me Money in the Past & he No Doubt will do it Again...!
All Hail Sam's Trains..!👍🙏👍
Cheers from Downunder 🦘🦘 (where OO cost's a BOMB..!)
@@kimcason8764no joking it really does cost a bomb there, i just sent my brother a suitcase full of his old model railways from when we where kids, it was cheaper to pay the £500 delivery fees than re purchase all of his stuff, even the older hornby stuff is bonkers priced, stay safe and have fun in the sun, your winter is probably warmer than our summer
Yeah, Cost of Postage is a Killer, but the import duty's Added to it all is a Real Kick in the..... Pants, to any deal..! 😂
As for Weather or Winter Downunder. After 40 yrs of Living in Adelaide it does get a Tad Nippy.
Eg. 5/6°C over night and 12/14°C during the Day.
But this year has been Oddly Cold.
Winds straight up from Antarctica...!
With 'B...er All' between us, to warm it up..!
But it's Warmer than Canberra..! They can even get Frost & Snow.
I guess, I have Softened up some since coming from London/Essex. I do remember being Snowed in..!
So I Shouldn't be too much of a 'Whinging Pom..!' 😂
Cheers 'Ava Good one..! 🦘🐪🦘🦎🦘
It is the bogies catching on the underframe truss that cause the derailments. The truss has not been fitted properly. It has been known about since the first batch. Dapol said to friend of mine who rang to complain about them, that they are probably Friday afternoon coaches.
The notch in the truss should be further up behind the solebar. It is there to clear a crossbeam on the underfloor.
Yes i have had the same problem, i recon eather a small file or make a 1/2mm shim to space the boogies down will solve it, i only get it on 1 bend on 1 coach in one direction
Beautiful models and an incredible bargain if it wasn't for the running issues, that need to be addressed by Dapol.
I've found this to be the main reason for derailmens. I hesitate to tamper wiythe bogies, but the answer would be to inset a washer between bogie and spring. Anyone tried this?
@@michaelliles693 you would have to put it between the bogies and the chassis, that woud raise the hight so it clears, puting it under the spring will just add tension
@@thomasbrigham6321 Yes, I understand that, thank you very much.
I appreciate that dapol have at least attempted to create a more realistic coupling solution. My biggest issue with the UK model railway scene is the unrealistic couplings. I always imagine the passengers having to do long jumps between the carriages 😂
I have a rake of these, but found the dapol connector bars were difficult to fit, and disconnect. I have substituted the shortest Hunt Ultra magnetic couplings which make putting them on and off the layout so much easier. The slightly more relaxed coupling distance also means they can take S bends.
As another comparison, I paid £51 each for my coaches, less expensive than the £54 Accurascale Syphons..
Continental modelers have enjoyed outstanding close-coupling systems for decades. I have a set of new Roco coaches that one can barely see daylight between on a straight, and which will navigate R2 curves and my (more subtle than Sam's) S-curve. There's really no excuse.
Very true but in this particular case, they are non corridor coaches - almost surburban type coaches despite being referred to as mainline.
@@hughoconnor9172 The lack of gangways isn't the issue though. The Roco system I mentioned would allow these to be realistically coupled buffer-to-buffer and still be able to negotiate 2nd radius curves.
Get some kadee nem couplers. I've been an HO guy for a few years and have just started getting into 00 to go alongside my HO. You can replace the European style couplers with the kadees pretty easily.
I love the liveries of the GWR coaches because in my opinion they look like big candy bars with windows and they go nicely with any engine.
Yeah they're the finest looking liveries aren't they??
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Indeed they are. It's a pleasure to meet you Sam and I wish you luck on your future videos and have a splendid day.
The derailing issues are most likely due to the bogies catching on the truss rods on the underframe. This in turn is due to a design flaw which has seen the truss rods come out slightly too long where they bend upwards at each end
To see what I mean go and look at the truss near one of the bogies - in the upper side you will notice a small notch.
This notch should align and press up against part of the chassis detail (hence the reason for the notch in the first place) - but it doesn’t - instead there is an air gap and the notch is fully visible from the outside of the model.
To fix the problem you need to break the glue holding the outer ends of the truss rods against the chassis, then remove a tiny amount of material until the notch is able to sit snugly against the chassis detail. Once this happens the outer ends of the truss ridding can be glued in place.
Repeat this a further 3 times and you will find the bogies no longer catch on the truss rods and will be able to negotiate 2nd radius curves without issue.
At 18:09 you can clearly see that the blanking plate is back to front, note the 1-6 on the PCBs of the plate and socket 👍🏻
Surely this de-railing problem is short sightedness on Dapol's part.
150 quid and they don't stay on the track! I would be in tears.
Yeah too me this should cripple the value for money, if you can’t do the basics then it’s not value no matter what it is?
Thank you for this review Sam! This has answered so many questions I have had with my own Toplight coaches.
I purchased the era 2 variety and wanted them for my Dapol Mogul 4321 era 2 steam loco. Whilst they look good with the loco, I must admit that with a full rake of 6, the train really does struggle to pull them around a loop, to such an extent that it will resort to wheel slipping on 3rd radius curves.
As you have mentioned, the coupling of these coaches are a nightmare and I have constantly been at odds with the couplings coming out of their guides, resulting in one of my brake coaches being damaged and needing repair.
However the worst aspect of these coaches is the constant derailing. Even on my second radius loop, which is a simple oval, the coaches derail. I have discovered that one of the reasons might be because one of the wheel sets in one of the bogies is very loose and I think is out of gauge. The couplings, however, do not help with the issue either.
I have been tearing up and replanning my track for weeks and weeks on end because of these coaches always derailing on certain sections, sometimes with success, other times with no change whatsoever.
Whilst I will agree that these coaches do look good, I will say that they have been poor performers and, in all honesty, I would not really recommend them. It is a shame because they look beautiful, however there is no point having something that looks nice which isn't going to run well.
Cloud's silver lining though;
You get a reason to rebuild your layout!
I really like the "permanent coupling" option that these have! 95% of US prototype models are individually coupled, which is nice from a realism standpoint but is a pain when very minor variations of heights means coaches uncouple by themselves
I’d argue that sounds symptomatic of a trackwork or coupler height issue, as a fellow American prototype modeller. My trackwork isn’t perfect by any means, but I’ve principally had this issue with my US rolling stock when the couplings aren’t correctly set to the standard height.
I'm glad you were able to explain that was "Shirtbutton" on the packaging... 😀
Wonderful coaches and a very fair review Sam. All those features are of course to be expected in that price range. And finally seeing reality based short couplings on an OO layout. The S-curve is nice for testing of course but a big no-no for proficient layout builders. However, in your case it serves a well good case for examining the limits of performance aspects. We gather that Dapol are catering towards well versed modellers perhaps. However, it must be said that in all of your tests, Dapol always seem to have issues with couplings somehow; something they struggle with to get them adequate, which is quite odd. The tail light being wrongly wired is interesting..., how on earth could such happen..., truly mind boggling. Lovely coaches and a very just review. Some work to do by Dapol. Cheerio.
Yeah absolutely - lovely coaches overall! You certainly wouldn't be building s-bends into a proper layout, but I feel all rolling stock should be able to handle all kinds of track, which is why I didn't let them off!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
One thing Sam failed to observe/mention was the brake coach is printed as "brke coach" on the box. I initially thought it was abbreviated to fit the available space but soon concluded it was an error.
On a DC track the brightness of the lights increases when you increase power. At low power they are a bit dim, but by the time you increase power to about 50% they have reached full brightness, and it is good enough to clearly see in a lit room.
7:17 - I did not read 'Shtbutton' as 'Shirtbutton'.
Maybe I was thinking of the Heljan version?
Those coaches look spectacular! I can't pick which livery is my favorite. Great review Sam.
I have these coaches and the quality was superb. Inside a review and found they ran lovely once I had the longer couplings. Being dcc the wiring wasn't an issue either.
I've seen a few caboose models with DCC plugs to control the tail lights and turn the interior lights on and off. So it's not totally unheard of in model railroading.
These coaches were built to run in fixed sets, hence why Dapol only included standard couplings with the brake coaches. The only ran outside of fixed sets after 1956, when they were all converted to works coaches.
They may have interior lights, they may have a metal base, they may have remarkable detail….but if they don’t go around a track, then they’re totally useless!
That's right - fallen at the last hurdle sadly!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Anyone who is willing to pay over £150 for a set of coaches is unlikely to be using defined tight radius curves - they are totally unrealistic.
Don't speak too soon - you'd be surprised how many people use train set curves... I'd wager it's the majority in fact!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains That would be an interesting bet! I would think years ago that would be the case but with increasing use of flexi track that number has surely diminished- except for those with 3 rail layouts! There's very few exhibitors on RUclips using such track;. Once you're past the train set stage and moved into more elaborate track formations; especially as certain models cannot use tight radius curves; I still think their use is declining.
Sam I dare you to get the rest of the variations of the coaches in that livery and make a long great western passenger train 🚂
Additions like the tiny windows above the main windows make this look really special, even with the poobrown topcoat (not overly fond of the colour but it’s applied expertly). :) :) I’m sure a man of your standing can make them run better with a bit of fettling, too. I know that’s not the point, in review conditions but it’s nice to know they’ll get properly used when you’ve had a look.
Wonderful song choice of "Shine on Harvest Moon" by Dave Stamper and first performed by the team of Nora Bayes & Jack Norworth and they performed the "Tin Pan Alley" song on the stage of the Ziegfeld Follies in 1908. As for the coaches, I was rooting for an "A" after seeing the detail but was disappointed when you ran into so many problems with the performance. I think you were also hopeful for a good showing, oh well. If you reach out to Dapol I hope you do an update video on the results or lack of. Great review and video, Jersey Bill
As always, thank you for being our Guinea pig on new models, you save us from making bad choices 👍🏻
I've just ordered the Third Class coach from Derails & was sorely tempted to get the Brake as well but something told me to try just the one first! Instinct i guess & you've just proved it i was right! Like you i fell for the gorgeous livery. Feel for you Sam having splashed out on all three but as we know in this wonderful hobby of ours you win some & lose some as i've found to my cost particularly with loco's.
This reminds me of Hornbys Coronation coaches. They kept derailing on my layout with its 28 foot straights. I finally sorted them and with 2 of the new Coronation Locos at full speed their scale speed at the top was 35mph. There was just so much drag the locos could not deal with them.
Design over function!
Overall delighted with my Toplights but agree that the couplings are a clear own-goal by Dapol! I may be lucky with mine as although very close on radius 2, ran ok but the bar couplings are an issue. The bar couplings are just daft and very difficult to connect and disconnect without a lot of difficulty. Maybe Dapol assume we all have room for permanently coupled rakes of coaches!? Replaced them with some West Wagon Works ultra close magnetic Hunt Couplings and now easy to get on and off my layout. No issues on rad 2 curves…
Looks like Dapol attempted to reinvent the wheel when it came to the couplings and got results representative of that.
The upside down coupling hooks was funny, even if the result is fiddling around with parts that should have come correct out of the box.
I hope Dapol reworks the couplings provided and/or installed out of the box for the coaches for subsequent production runs. I love GWR Chocolate and cream coaches and really want to buy a rake of BR MK1s or GWR Collett/Hawksworth coaches to run behind my Castles and Kings.
Also Sam, is your Torquay Manor slowing down on curves? Got an Accurascale Hinton Manor that does the same thing on second radius curves. The motor seems to want more than 50% to run through without much slowing down
I got a set of these when they got released and they run very well no derailments on mine lovely coaches although I don’t have any 2nd radius curves
I have a set of 6 of these coaches. I found the oddly-built coupling as well. Try putting together a complete set of 6 on their backs and then turning them over to put them on the track! The first thing I have done is to buy a set of Hunt magnetic close couplings to ensure I can make up a rake and take it apart again without breaking the coupling housings. I find that the set is so heavy and stiff that a new Dapol Mogul cannot pull the set of 6 up a 1 in 100 slope around a 3ft radius curve! Dapol recommend their 61xx as the suitable loco, I have one on order so we shall see whether this will work. Both of my brake coaches seem to be wired up backwards as only the one at the front of the train behind the loco is illuminated. This is really disappointing from Dapol as I agree with you that the detail and decoration are superb, which is why I decided to buy a complete set.
Further to my last, I have found that the problems of bogies fouling the underframes can easily be solved by simply slackening off the bogie pivot screws a turn or two, this allows the springs to raise the coach bodies.
Thankyou for running Torquay Manor, kisses on each cheek for that. Not to make Chloe jealous, you understand. I have Bachmann Branchlines Chocolate & Cream Mk. 1 coaches, which run over 2nd radius curves a lot better than the Toplight ones you purchased. The Toplights are nice as you say, but not worthy of anyone with 2nd radius curves. Torquay Manor suits Chocolate & Cream Mk. 1s of Bachmann status a lot better. Please can you take us trainspotting on your railway? I miss that sort of video very much.
Sam - take care
Derailments - My final offering. I had success with disengaging (removing actually but disengaging works) the brake pull rod from the actuator to the bogie brake gear, which seems to act as a centring spring, just where you don't want one.
Dapol bar couplings - Razor saw down the middle of the vee (down to the solid bar itself) lets the tangs squeeze together easier, then one or two swipes with a file across the spikes so they go in the pocket easier (not too much you don't want them pulling out too easily).
Derailments - stiff bogies getting caught on something, haven't solved that one yet. Suspected the "pips" on the bogie spring tops hitting the truss rods but not sure.
Awesome video Sam's trains 😊
Great review, as always - the point test contains a 2nd radius reverse curve, of course, which caused no problem - interesting!
Get yourself some Hunt magnetic couplings , the Ultra Close type, to fit between the composite and third Sam. They'll go round your tights curves then. I agree totally about the bar coupling set up, a recipe for damaging the coaches when fitting them.
Great Video Sam, Firstly & Obviously the Coaches look Fantastic, Great Details, Colour with lights even on DC. Just Great..!
That said,
"What is it with Dapol and Coupling's, it always seems to be an Issue.?"
As for your Layout,
I think it's Perfect, as a Test Track..!
Not all of us have the Space, Money, Time & a Perfectly Layed out Track that some do..!
People get stuck into you about your Lay Out. Carpet, Uneven, ect ect..!
But for 'Pushing a Product to it's Extremes,' it's Bloody Perfection.
This Tests Product with Everyone in Mind.
E.G. The User that 'Throws Track Down to Amuse the Kids.'
Right Down (or Up) to 'The Lucky Bu**er who can Dedicate a Whole room to a Perfect Permanant Layout that Does NOT need to be Moved Ever..!'
I am somewhere in the Middle with sections of Both. A Layout that is Stable, but with an option to Extend, that's not so Perfect..!
So These Coaches may not be for Me..!
So I Now Know maybe I shouldn't Rush out & Throw $$$ down on these Coaches. ( although I am Tempted.)😂
Great Review Sam, well Done..!
Cheers All, from Downunder. 🦘🦘
The nearest equivalent I have in terms of features and price are my Hornby LMS Coronation coaches which also have lights.
They have an RRP of £60.49 and at the retailers they tend to go for £50 but I've seen them as low as £40.
They don't have the diecast chassis or rear tail light, level of detail is good, similar to the Dapol but they don't have the running or coupling issues.
Obviously the livery is very different, but in terms of value the Hornby Coronation coaches are cheaper and much better runners/couplers.
Thanks for a wonderful review again Sam. Yes - Tail Light. I have received two brakes of "set 2" type (fully lined C & C) and the tail light are wired the wrong way 'round too. I have notified Dapol & Rails but have yet to hear anything. If it's a simple fix I'll do it myself but somehow I don't think It's gonna be. I'll wait to hear first. I doubt Dapol will recall them all for that. In any case, the lamps should be red bodied It's a shame they don't perform on reverse curves either - even though you have the recommended straight track between them. Shame they can't be fully recommended.
Ahh interesting - so it's not just a one off issue - is it fixable by turning the blanking plug around or not?? Very silly issue!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Sam, at 18:08, look at the mother board versus the blanking plug. On the mother board there are numbers 1-6 going from "top to bottom," while on the blanking plug the numbers go 6-1 from "top to bottom." So it looks like the blanking plus is installed backwards.
Yeah it does - though not sure if this is the same on the brake coach or not!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Thanks Both - what a great community we have! I'm going to try it today.
@@SamsTrains Simple reversing of the blanking plate (which incidentally is numbered correctly in the brake coach) makes the tail lamp work correctly, but the coach lights then go out in the forward direction........There is a connector supplying power from the track to the roof PCB. I'm going to try a reversal there now.
Dapol produce some great models but the assembly and running needs some serious attention, I think you should send them back to get fixed. Great review Sam God bless you both.
I complained to Dapol about the couplings as I found the bar couplings almost impossible to fit ( i broke 2 of the socket springs ) .Once the long ones were fitted they would still not negotiate 2nd radius curves. I had an even harder job getting them out again !
Consequently I had to purchase some normal couplings myself.
A really poor design which lets down an otherwise lovely coach.
Dapol obviously assume everyone has an end to end layout and will never remove the coaches from the layout.
I did get a reply , but no admission of it being there fault. Hopefully other people will voice there concerns to Dapol so they may learn some lessons !
Re- couplings.
The real coaches were ALLWAYS formed into fixed sets of 6 coaches (Brake either end sandwiching 2X thirds and 2X composites) plus the buffers / draw gear on intermediate ends were of such a configuration that they were not to be coupled to other stock. As such Dapols lack of tension locks for the composite and full third reflects prototypical practice.
Hoping the forthcoming GW panelled auto coaches and top light corridor stock run better.
Unfortunately these M/line City stock were rather restricted in their pro typical use.
Such a shame they derail so easily, kinda giving me flashbacks to the egg vans😰. I also noticed that when running, your Manor’s centre axle on the tender is stuck, it’s visible on 24:31. Great review and other than derailing, these are stunning coaches.
I think you would love to review the swedish E/E2 class from Jeco/Liliput. I would like to see a swedish loco review on the channel. 🤔🚂
Could you try the magnetic coupling by one of the many companies that make them, I think these would work better than the solid bar coupling when making long trains, great vid in all!
Hunt ultra close work perfectly.
Thanks for another thorough - and very watchable - review. Shame about the performance issues, like the couplings, but great to see the wonderful features such as the lighting. Seeing as they are chipped for DCC, maybe another 'operable' feature would be braking - so that, when you back a loco down on the train, the coaches stay still, as with the real thing. It would be better to have a braking system that worked rather than a beautifully detailed but non-working one that only adds to the bogie problems!
Look forward to your next video
Excellent review, been looking to buy some from the second batch, but you just saved me £200 .Was going to get them from Olivias Trains as they are £49 each there!. Mind you bought a HD A4 from Rails last week in the sale for £200! Keep up with the honest reviews, regards -Richard.
👍 👍 Good intel . Mixed bag , but derailments get old in a hurry . . .
Yeah absolutely - been so long since I've reviewed anything that derailed like that!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I’ve been considering picking some of these up to run behind my Bachmann GWR Hall
Coupling assembly upside down!?!? Thanks Sam - that was the only issue I had with my coaches -auto decoupling from my loco - running excellent now though 🙂
They can look fantastic, but if they can't perform like standard rolling stock, I'd be sending it back.
Yeah that's right - fell at the final hurdle sadly!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Wow. The little handles on the doors look like they’re formed from bits of actual copper wire; I’d say 26 ga. (AWG). If those are plastic, then Dapol have the nicest copper paint I’ve ever seen! And notice the little hinges, too. This is one of the nicest paint jobs I’ve seen; certainly up there with the likes of Rapido and Athearn (USA/Canada, anyway.) It easily bears scrutiny when the coaches are whizzing by on setting 40 on Sam’s controller! 😅 It’s almost worth getting one of these just as a display piece!
About how I mentioned I sent you a package, it's some HO scale American passenger cars. You'll be able to see them when you finally pick up the package, I'm eager to see what you think of them
Ooh! That will be fun to see him running in future! What types of passenger cars? Or do you want to keep it a surprise?
Were they still sealed? Do you think he'll be able to review them?
These remind me of the old short Triang/Hornby clerestory coaches; This made me think that maybe Dapol could do some generic short wheelbase bogie coaches a bit like Hornby and Hattons did with 4 and 6 wheelers.
Hi Sam,
Love your videos. Was wondering why you don’t want to use DCC. I feel like like promoting more DCC will help more people get into the hobby as people find more things to do more interested in the hobby. Speaking from personal experience.
From my own perspective, the sheer cost of DCC fitted locomotives is prohibitive, so I would say that Sam’s approach of using more affordable DC models is probably a good one.
This is really interesting I have the BR red ones and they are perfect. I must admit I fitted close coupled magnetic fittings because initially the NEM ones gave too big a gap. Mine run perfectly even the lights are brighter although I do run on DCC. I did have issues with points before I fitted the magnetic fittings. I did find the magnetic couplings from porterhouse models were the best as they have an extra swivelling action which is probably why mine work so well.
Have a look at the bogies. See if the wheel sets have any slackness in the wheel bearins. Most 00 gauge coach bogies have wheel sets that slackness in the bearings. This means that they are self compensating. I suspect these dapol bogies hold the wheel sets in a rigid way that won't allow the wheels to follow any undulations in your track on second radius curves. Hence the derailments.
Yeah there's very little slack on the axles - fixed quite rigidly, as evidenced by the stiff running, and the flanges are extremely fine, so they're much more sensitive to uneven trac than other models!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains That is what I thought. Maybe a fresh set of bogies would help. Are these Dapol wheel sts pinpointed axle ends or plain? Pity about the running issues as these coaches look great. All they need to pull them is a 2-4-0t Metro Tank locomotive. South Eastern Finecast market a kit for one.
They're pinpoint, but they have the plastic sleeves between the wheels to insulate between them - I've heard this is causing gauging issues too, though mine were okay on gauge
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Probably the best coaches out there right now .. see what accuracale and rapido come up with .,.i doubt the modelers with worry about them derailing as they will be runing them on more realistic curves and points etc
These like a lot of high end products now are not for the on carpet/6 by 4 foot board right angle bend wizz round toy layout .. .. they are for when you have been inspired to move on from that ..
well;done Dapol showing what high level of detail and features can be acheived for a good price .. .i will by buying a few
Yeah I'd be surprised if there were issues on better layouts - but the flanges are very fine, so they're sensitive to trackwork, much more so than other RTR coaches!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains if you want fine flanges try p4/s4 i was doing that 40 years ago ...
How about running trains through the 3 sizes of radius points peco make .. be a good test as most of use Peco ..
Im sure you could add it in somewhere
With the brake light, if the wires seem correct, might be worth checking and diodes fitted. If these have been installed the wrong way round, i could see that causing the tail lamp issue.
Also some in the comments mentioned the DCC blanking plate, also worth a look.
The blanking plug looks to be in the wrong way up; on my example the plain side of the blanking plug is visible, rather than the side with the components on, and on my example the tail lamp lights up when it should! Cheers.
These are lovely coaches! They look beautiful! Definitely a shame dapols QC wasnt better though :(
No point in buying a good detailed coach if it won't run
Yeah, quite a few performance issues sadly!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
completely unrelated but I'd love to see a Bachmann Lady! i think shed be very popular
Unfortunately the people in charge of choosing which characters Bachmann features said they have to stick to more recently featured characters (One of them said he'd love to feature Stepney, but it was very unlikely as he hadn't appeared in the show in years).
At least Lady's future prospects aren't crippled by an NMRA code violation like Diesel 10's prospects are. Sure, you could model him with Pinchy withdrawn, but it just wouldn't be the same... a Diesel 10 with no claw just doesn't seem like that much of an improvement on a diesel 10 that wipes out all your bridges.
Hey Sam, got an idea for ya. What if you had a flatbed that you load with weights? It would be a pretty simple demonstration of tractive effort. "Looks like she can pull a kilo, but to be fair, that's probably due to the traction tyres."
Decent review here Sam, while I don’t have any of these I bought some great western coaches recently, the ones I have though are the Hornby Collett Corridor ones
They should be testing the coaches on S bends before they go into final production. I don't blame your track work at all. The other coaches don't seem to have a problem with it.
Good Lord, these may have derailed harder than the Dapol egg vans.
I know the layout is partially to blame, but this is a letdown when any other coach has traversed your S-curve.
Assuming you don’t get a refund, I hope you are able to rewire them to where they work properly. I don’t know how you’re going to fix that tail lamp…
I would suggest these coaches are aimed at the other end of the market to the train set brigade. They don't derail on my layout using the longer bar coupling supplied.
I'm surprised the "backwards" tension lock issue has persisted in this second batch. It was a problem with the first run which got may comments, yet they don't appear to have done anything about it.
Honestly, it seems like you are being way too generous in your scoring. Performance should be one of the most important things factoring into the final score. Without performance everything else is meaningless since it's not fit for purpose. It could be detailed to the level of proper stitching on the seats, and it's quality being basically indestructible all for a 1/10 of what these cost, but if it's derailing like every foot even on straight aways and the wheels are essentially locked up those other factors don't matter it should be an F. A coach that was essentially just a cardboard box with the details drawn on by crayon, that cost 10x as much but performed flawlessly should be higher rated since at least that would fill it's primary purpose of being rolling stock.
Not sure I agree with this take. Models are sold based on how realisticly they've captured the prototype's look. Performance is important but I'm not going to pay top dollar for a model that looks garbage even if it's the best performing loco out there.
@@HzYDuB I am not saying you should pay top dollar for a model that looks like garbage, or even that such a model should get even a mediocre rating, Just that all together such a model should just eek out a slightly higher rating at least as rolling stock. (and that's also not to such a poor performing model wouldn't have value as say decoration)
Stunning looking coaches in my desired livery. I think i'd sooner have a dummy tail light then the chunky offering we see in rtr. Shame about the performance issues. Imagine a full 6 coach set with poor performance at £55 a pop... If I could I would though. Thanks Sam
Thanks for that review Sam, I really, really wanted a rake of the lined crimson versions, but - yikes.
I do only have third radius and larger streamline track but I will now try and ask one of the chaps nicely in my model railway club to borrow some toplights to run on my layout before I part with 200 quid for four of those very pretty coaches.
Cheers for the heads-up!
I run third radius curves and have a full set of the lined crimsons, they're fine on my (quite roughly laid) track. They're fine on the second radius siding point curves as well. I don't like the fixed bar couplings provided so use a set of Hornby's close couplings in the middle of the set, with a regular tension hook at each end of the train.
Back in the day, BR coach lighting was pretty dim - like a few 12 volt bicycle lights, dim and yellow.
With all those issues in performance, many seem to be manufacturing errors, and so quality must surely be very low, despite the nice paint job? 2* max, surely?
I almost order them. My layout has R5 and R6 on my mainline and 1 90 degrees bend R4 in the shunting yard. But sometimes I go to friends who has R2 :(
Most of the time trouble with couplings is due to the "advanced" kinematic type having powerful return springs which force vehicles off the track. I just wish manufacturers wouldn't bother. I suppose they do it so they can brag about having a feature and get favourable reviews.
Dapol make superbly detailed rolling stock, most of it, especially the wagons, at reasonable prices but in my experience, they have been let down by basic issues such as droopy couplings and derailing on curves.
I visited Derails on Friday morning with the intention of buying all six of set 2 with the lined choc & cream livery. Sadly the tail light issue is present on that set also. The issue could not be resolved despite the efforts of Derails very helpful staff. Strangely I am the only person to have flaged up this issue despite them selling many of those coaches. Reluctantly I left without the coaches with Derails determined to contact Dapol on Monday morning morning to find a resolution. Difficult due to the solid state electrics!!! ???
Hi Sam, just an idea, how about adding a small shim or spacing washer above the bogie pivots. Might help lift the body up just enough to have clearance between bogie and truss under frame?
Sorry Sam but you say it yourself. Is it time for you to build a layout at waist height in the loft?. You do go against some manufacturers because you are running trains on track that is on carpet.
Well, it DOES provide vital warnings for other people who run trains on carpet layouts. I, for one, run trains on carpet layouts, although I use track with built-in roadbed (Bachmann E-Z track by Bachmann of America), so I suspect some of the effects are mitigated.
Far too generous. I don't see how a coach that doesn't freewheel, has dodgy and wrong fitted couplings, derails, has a faulty rear light and has dim lighting deserves anything but 1 star, 2 at most in performance, quality and value for money.
Maybe the bar couplings are just to rigid for S bends - individual couplings have a little bit of flex, where they connect so I wonder if they'd be better with tension locks or even a close coupling like Roco or Kaydee. As for the drag, maybe a bit of electrolube on the brass pinpoint bearings. I expect them to be tight to help conduct the power to the lights. OK they should be better straight from the box, but it might be easy to correct.
It doesn't seem to be the couplings after all - I tried pushing each coach around the curve alone and they derail most of the time - could be the finescale flanges!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Pizza cutter wheels for the win
I want to remind everyone that a full set (6 coaches) would cost £294 from the cheapest retailer I can find.
Additional reminder: These were often pulled by small pre-grouping tank engines (think 455 and later 48xx/14xx) so the amount of resistance in those wheels is not on.
Could you imagine one of the upcoming dapol 1400s (or worse, an old hornby one!) hauling 6 of those because I sure as hell can’t.
Edit: As a side note, they do look really nice, and I really want a set to be honest, the derailing isn’t an issue for me since I have the ability to run everything on a minimum of 4th radius, and my layout is flat, but for most they just don’t work.
Interesting video,, great as always Sam, such a shame.. Any idea how they compare to Hornby Pullmans? With lit tables lamps... which are the best looking coaches in my collection.. 🙈
There are multiple assembly issues with these, the derailing you are experiencing is because the truss bars on the chassis are not fitted properly and foul the top of the bogies. The other big problem with these is VERY inconsistent wheel back to backs, sometimes so tight that they derail on point check rails and proprietary level crossings. My local shop has had a lot of returns of these coaches. The most humorous thing about them, the recommended Dapol decoder doesn't fit into the provided space in the PCB! I'd rather spend £60 on a lower spec Bachmann coach and KNOW it'll work perfectly rather than spend £55 and it be a lottery whether it'll work. Crapol strikes again.
Thanks for sharing Simon - I'll have to look at the trusses and the gauges, thank you! Blimey surprised at these cock ups by Dapol - they've been so much better recently!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I had the same issue with the Dapol Imperium 4 recently. Apparently that is an instruction error - it should be a Dapol Imperium 5 (which is shorter and is the one used in the photo in the instructions). I note that it does say Imperium 5 on Dapol's web site when I last checked).
So cool unboxing video sam
The reason for the poor rolling test/running is clear from a shot of a bogie at time 14:44. The RH axle is clearly not perpendicular to the frame and neither it seems is the LH axle. It would seem this is at yet another different angle to the frame. This is a major manufacturing flaw that should have ben spotted! If it doesn't roll (DUH). The most basic kit builder knows how important getting both axles parallel to each other and perpendicular to the frames.
Awesome video today Sam might have to get some
No smoking sign! This livery dates back to when smoking was de rigour. Is this correct?
Yeah it's interesting isn't it? Maybe it was just for non-smokers?
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Trains had a combination of smoking and non smoking into the 1990s IIRC. I think there was typically one smoking out of every four carriages but the ratio might have been higher in the past.
On commuter lines the regulars knew where to stand to get on the appropriate carriage. You really didn't want to spend even a few seconds walking through a smoking carriage to get to the next one.
The trains I used regularly had large ventilation outlets on the sides and the outsides next to them were a dirty black, an accurate representation of the state of the passenger's lungs.
The bogie in the video was not in line with the under frame so it was evident that it was not correct to start with. The wire, a nice detail, must contribute to the rigidity for supposedly tight curves.
Also Sam your suggestion that your layout may not be the best I rather suspect it is the norm.
A good and constructive review which I hope Dapol will reflect on.
I going to say this I hate N.E.M coupling .I'm slowly changing over to the magnetic hunt couplings.
What a shame that Dapol couldn’t get the performance right - not much use for a model railway if they’re static. Couplings always seem to be a weak point of theirs, too. I’ve lost count of the number of dodgy couplings I have on their rolling stock.
I did see a report that the BR Carmine coach set had very bright lights (in their opinion). Could Dapol be playing with the resistors in the lighting circuit to better match the brightness to the coach period?? Yours are 1934-1942 period livery.
What you need to do is to replace your set track "S" curves with a flexi-track "S" curve. Flexi-track S curves would solve some of your issues. Along with that, you can cut flex-track to the desired length, and is smoother.
Have you tried magnetic, or even the real looking knuckle couplers?
If they have any manufacturing faults, it would be straight back to the retailer, for a replacement, repair or refund and wouldn't give them a rating, especially with the fault of the wires & coupler issues.
I don’t think it’s worth relaying my track for a single set of coaches really, not when everything else is fine! I’d rather find out what the issue with the coaches is…
If I would buy these coaches I would rather expect chain link couplings if normal couplings are not provided , than the bar ones which are not realistic and hard to couple.
Regarding the tail light , if the bogeys can turn 180⁰ degrees just try to turn both bogeys and then the light should work in the correct direction.
Uh oh… been dreading this one, been avoiding these for awhile they look so good
Yeah - if you've got a professional grade layout and don't mind potentially having to rewire the lights, you should be fine... otherwise, not great!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
What a shame that these amazingly detailed coaches, virtually of museum quality, have been let down by derailing issues. Let alone the inverted couplings, which I have found the very devil to reverse!
On two of he first coaches I bought, the nem pockets simply fell off. Seeing no way I could re-attach them, I returned them to Sheffield Rails, who to their credit replaced them (plus postage) promptly. I have replaced all the bar couplings for now, while I work on avoiding derailmants. My layout has very generous curves, the only tight ones are on Peco's "large bradius" turnouts. What a pity Peco dont produce really large radius turnous. as they do for their North American range (code 83).
Good video Sam, I guess the only way to see why the coaches derail is replicate the 2nd radius curves on a sheet of clear perspex and run coaches over and film/view from under perspex to see bogies in action?? Strange they buzz through points but get caught out on those pesky 2nd radius!
Yeah that would be interesting - little tricky to see what's happening - I wonder if it's in combination with my incline??
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Need a review of an Accurascale Mk2, I personally think they’re the best coaches out there
Re coach lighting
Given the lighting in said coaches was driven by crude batteries and only ran at 24V of course it’s going to be dim!
Moreover during the day the interior lights would be switched off - it would only be turned on by the guard if the train was scheduled to be passing through a tunnel (and most likely switched off again as soon as it passed through said feature to preserve battery life)
In other words if Dapol have done their job properly then not being able to see the lights being on during the day is entirely correct and is in no way a flaw with the product.
Those bogies are a great example of poor design. The springs on the bolsters (screw holding it on) is useless, as it only allows flexibility that messes with the weight distribution. The wires should also should have much more slack. At least this coach would be a prime example to show off the superior performance of Chris Pendleton/Dave Bradwell type sprung bogies with Alan Gibson bearings, or Kadee/Central Valley type sprung bogies, both of which will make the reliability impeccable, make the coaches appear much more realistic while running, and Gibson bearings will make the wheels nearly frictionless. Also, it feels so odd being on holiday and having you videos come out during dinner instead of right after lunch! Thanks as always Sam.
This is such a shame because they look beautiful. I know you were being humble regarding your track not being the best but I don’t know if I’d risk purchasing these with the performance issues
I'm happy to have NOT bought a complete rake (I'm waiting for a Rivarossi DB BR 56 this month). The disastrous performance is a complete no-go for me, I'm not an addict of shelf queens.
I've been very tempted by these coaches, they do look fantastic, shame their performance is a little lacking. It's perhaps fortunate that I'm currently keeping my money aside for the eventual fulfilment of my Hattons Genesis Phase 2 pre-orders by Rails of Sheffield. Who knows, perhaps by that time, there'll be some of these on offer somewhere....
Yeah it's a pity isn't it? I can confirm the Genesis coaches did run fine for me!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)