'They just don't care, do they?' You hit the nail on the head with that comment. Hornby show every day that they do not care about their customers. It is mainly about maximum profit for minimum effort in a desperate attempt to keep the ship afloat, they are not even remotely bothered about ripping off the unwary.
@@cbrooks122000 I only preorder from retailers, never direct from Hornby. Even then try to stick to models that are a known quantity (i.e. re-releases) rather than all-new models as you have no idea what is going to turn up. I don't buy much Hornby now, but that wasn't always the case.
10:51 funny story about that Sam. I think Hornby were using a old photo of the tender driven version, you can still see the gears in the tender and the plastic wheels. Sometimes Hornby. Cheers Jasper & Willow
Sam is the only RUclips reviewer giving honest reviews. One very high profile “reviewer” once remarked to an associate that they can’t give bad reviews or “companies would stop sending me stuff”. So good on Sam for putting his hand in his pockets rather than ass-kissing freebies. I do wish he’d build a proper test track though.
you should start a "lemons to lemonade" series. Take this loco and see what it takes to make it into an acceptable one. New motor, re gauging, body modifications etc.
It’s baffling that Hornby tries to squeeze so much money from the customers with these old locomotives, it would be more profitable to do the exact opposite and have a nice range of older, but still competent locomotives for budget modellers and younger people. The market for affordable models is wide open but it seems nobody has any big interest in capitalizing on it.
Yah I totally agree, why are British manufacturers ignoring that market? Maybe it's because you Brits are all filthy rich and put up with overpriced models? Based on Hornby's finances I don't think that's the case. 🤣
I have 4323 in LMS black, purchased in 2017 I think. The box on that also omits the gearbox area from the photo, which is blatantly different to the actual model. RRP for the Fowler 4F in January 1979 was £13.75 according to the retail price list. Which, according to the Bank of England's inflation calculator, is worth £65.78 in Sept 2024. The original price would've included development costs. However, Hornby has no development costs for this loco, being identical in terms of tooling to one released 10+ years ago (including pickups and DCC socket), and they've done plenty of S&DJR locos recently, so livery development and production is also minimal. The biggest question is, why isn't this and the 2P in the Railroad Plus range? It's a shame the bachmann ones aren't more available. I'm not sure if I've ever seen one for sale.
You can’t tell Hornby or Corgi that they have got liverires wrong. I’ve tried that even explaining where they can read articles on the model. They just don’t want to know.
You made a mistake in trusting Hornby's own website would have accurate information about the motor when it also says the 4F is a 4P without NEM couplings. I really don't understand the people who say Sam is biased against Hornby when Hornby keep selling bad models at stupid prices using photoshopped promotional images of different models(!) with inaccurate listings. I have a pre-order of Rapido's O1 in the even fancier SECR livery for only £15 more than what Hornby are trying to sell this Airfix paperweight for.
@@Alpha-oo8 Yes I refer to it as the Hornby Mafia or Hornby Lovers Club. Take a trip to the Hornby Forum and you will see what I mean. Most of them are non paid testers for Hornby, so they love the company, not realising that Hornby is taking advantage of them as well.
Really good review, thanks. Unfortunately, I pre ordered this and was horrified when it arrived. I was even threatened with being thrown off RMWeb because I started a thread saying how bad it was. My one had an electrical issue, when I tried to fit DCC my controller kept shorting out, so I completely rewired it, so I doubt your test was the issue. Hornby seem to have an issue with tolerances, the reason the chassis is a tight fit in the body is the gap is not big enough. I slightly filed mine and now it fits properly. My conclusions were the same as yours, good paint job but the rest is rubbish. I stupidly thought they might have improved it a bit. The only thing that was good was I saw your last review and realised that they hadn't changed anything. The windows look glazed but I am pretty sure they are not. To be honest it has put me off ordering any more models off Hornby and the "Hornby lovers" telling me that it is my fault for expecting too much, didn't help. Oh and the other thing is the pickups are a pig to get right I am sure mine weren't working properly, so from a production point of view a difficult and time consuming task. Wonder if Dremel Jenny will get lent one to tell us how wonderful it is.
Getting a warning from Andy York should be a badge of honour. He is hyper sensitive to some comments as though he is personally invested in the product, manufacturer or retailer, but lets endless other drivel through on other subjects. I made a fairly innocuous comment about the demise of Hattons being possibly due to a high volume/low margin model being at risk if volumes fell and quick as a flash I was warned. Was almost as if AY was a shareholder. Dare I say, I was almost certainly correct! As the truth came out, my unacceptable comment was repeated more than once and tolerated because it was 100% reasonable. The sniffy put down I got was along the lines of what would I know about running a business which is actually quite a bit!
Unfortunately I think they brown nose the manufacturers a lot - I think it’s important for them to stay on the good side of the manufacturers… otherwise they risk losing those review samples and magazine ads… so too much negativity about a manufacturer on RMweb and threads get locked etc. it’s a different story with me though… pages and pages of negativity about me, and it’s all fine… perhaps I should pay for an ad spot with them and get the red carpet rolled out 😉 I like it when that happens though… the views come rolling in! Very interesting you had the same issue with the wiring too - would love to have taken a look at the wires before the issue developed!
@@SamsTrains Thanks for the reply, yes I wondered that as well. Don't ever change, I really like your reviews and if you say a model is good I generally buy it.
@@cbrooks122000 well at least you could say he personalised mine with gratuitous dissing of my business acumen! Years ago, I complained about a so called layout thread that repeatedly plugged the OP’s own commercially available products with no pretence of layout progression. No action ever taken. Enough said, the firm was an advertiser naturally.
Hi Sam, Hornby's 8f is another ancient tooling in the main range and is ridiculously priced the same as the newly tooled 9f which has a diecast boiler, firebox flicker and superb level of detail. I don't mind Hornby releasing locos with ancient tooling, but stick them in them Railroad range and price them accordingly. I agree with you on the edited images too. Surely that's false advertising? N.B. The humped coal load is from when the model was tender drive so that the ringfield motor could fit. Whenever you see that on a Hornby loco you know it's an old tooling.
Oh don't get me started on the 8F... ridiculous! I think it is too - reckon we'll see those photos mysteriously change soon ;) Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I couldn't believe the 8f, do you know the latest one is worse than the previous version. The smoke box door is the Railroad molded version rather than the one with separately fitted items. When Rails pointed it out to the Hornby representatives they couldn't understand how that happened.
If Hornby marketed these as Airfix badged retro offerings for a decent price and not tried and pass them off as new premium models people might forgive the quirks and faults. Thing is if people keep buying this stuff they’ll keep churning it out.
Airfix sell old old tooled kits as "Classic". These are not always cheap because they have new decals (that can be a substantial part of the cost) but you know what to expect. They say the date of the tool on the box. You wouldn't think the two companies are in the same group, Hornby appears to show contempt for their customers with a lot of their products.
This model seems to be indicative of hornby in general right now. Expensive and not best in class. Many modellers just want trains that work, you can put them on the tracks and they will run without issues. Hornby need to invest in their mechanisms and be the most reliable... if sam could just say about hornby that you know when you buy one that the trains will just run and are super reliable we could all overlook the other issues. Instead they try to be a jack of all trades and master of none. They have lost their identity
"Old Tool" I see what you did there Sam Also, I had a couple of questions that I wanted to ask under the model railway news video, but forgot to ask: 1. Did you know that Hornby made Locomotion No. 1 a Club Exclusive model? 2. Which version of the Rapido MR 483 are you going to get? A fitting question I think for this video, especially since that model also comes in an S&DJR Blue
hahaha yeah! Yep I saw the club exclusive one - not doing that though! That's a good question - can't decide between the MR and SDJR ones! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
3:53 I'm glad you mentioned this. There are several differences between the 3835 Class and the later LMS built 4Fs (just to make life interesting, the 3835s were also classified as 4Fs). The 3835s had the earlier Johnson tenders, with a flared top, whereas the 4Fs had the later Fowler tenders. The 3835s had beading on the splashers, compared to the smooth splashers on the 4Fs. Furthermore like all Midland Railway built locomotives (including the 483 Class 4-4-0 that Rapido are modelling) the 3835s were right-hand drive, with the reversing lever and injector located on the right-hand side of the loco, with the LMS built 4Fs having them on the left-hand side. You can get a more accurate model of a S&DJR Class 3835, if you're prepared to pay for it: Bachmann produced an exclusive version of their '4F', 31-880K, in S&DJR Blue for their Collectors Club. And when I say you have to pay for I'm not joking; whenever these models appear they're usually selling for around £300. So as much as it irritates me, I have bought Hornby's model, which will have to do until such time as I a feel capable of repainting a Bachmann 3835 from BR Black to S&DJR Blue.
The tender is a Fowler one which is only correct for a 4F. This model requires a Johnson tender. Not only is it wrong hand drive but the vacuum ejector is also on the wrong side for a 3835 class. I know it's a old tooling but to issue a model with so many errors at a premium price really is taking the mickey!
Very good honest review of a model from yesterday year, the reworking hasn’t really added much to it, Hornby doing the bad things the way they know best, traction tyres are a sign of desperation in my opinion, I’m glad Sam shows us what Hornby are up to and calls it out.
I have the hornby 2p(old tooling). i got it for 59 pounds. It's not a great model, but it's a decent one. Now, if i ever find it on sales, it's 129 to 159 pounds
Thanks for that very honest review Sam! I must admit I was considering buying this loco, but now I think I'll pass, so thank you for your very timely and sage advice once more!
4:55 When the Tooling was first produced by Airfix it was released at £16.50 RRP. When Airfix was bought by Hornby it was first introduced in the latter's range in 1998 when it cost £47.25 RRP. £16.50 in today's money is £118.63. £47.25 in today's money is £104.20
Don't use just a base inflationary calculation which is gdp. Use inwards/outwards flow adjustment calculations, they're considerably more accurate, indicative is an article costing £15 in 1978 is outwards cost calculating now £173, inwards around £156
@muir8009 - I'm no economist, but my understanding is the inflation measures changes in price of an article over time so would be the correct measurement. Admittedly, inflation looks at changes in costs of a "representative" basket of goods / services and is not sector specific, you may expect specific sectors to perform very differently to the wider economy. Inflows / outflows is a better measure when analysing a business, but this is not what is being done here. Maybe I need an economics lesson...
@sportydavek1590 you're on course, that's all good. Think of the other ones I'd mentioned as being more inclusive, that being things like domestic consumables (bills!) Income as to nett wages, mortgage rates, interest rates etc, outgoings being like bills (again!) Rent, taxes, repayments, deposits etc, leading to essentially what one might determine as being surplus buying power, I.e moneys left over that maybe used on things like model railways. If you could imagine the 4f you bought in 1978 costs, say £20. Now, that inflationary calculator works it out as £63 today. However in 1978 power, fuel etc might’ve been x% of a nett income, rent being x% of outgoings, transport costs etc, so seemingly say you earn £630 a week today, that £63 a week is great stuff, lots cheaper than the asking price of £155. However, back in 1978 your income may have been £250, however relative to your income outgoings, expenditures etc may have been considerably eating into a domestic budget. So instead of buying your today loco and having a great amount of change left over at the end of the week, your train expenditure in 1978 might’ve been crippling, thence the calculation is worked out on the principal of purchasing power. Funny, my current mortgage is 2.6 p.a%. My parents mortgage all those decades ago notched up to 25 p.a% during one of those many economic roadblocks that pop up all the time. Tbh, I always feel that the new/old price comparisons are a bit out of play. By this, I feel it should be more what contemporary pricing of similar field items is a better indicator. As in, this hornby 4f thing, how does it compare with: others in the same price area OR, similar spec locos pricing: then it can be called out for what it is, as others have done. This in mind, in 1978 it may have been a jolly decent loco, or not that good. It may have been really expensive, it may have been really cheap. That's where a contemporary comparison actually serves our purposes better. I know my response is full of opinion, but I'm hoping you get where I'm coming from :)
That site photo still has the gears visible in the tender too. This is sadly why I haven't brought any new Hornby loco's this year. The price and quality are not worth it. Good tip for the cab details is to buy a set of metal colour Sharpie permanent markers. You get gold, silver and copper and they are great for giving some colour to they unpainted cab and then a drop of red paint on the Regulator handle.
Yeah it's weird isn't it? Can they not update their photo of the model to the latest version? The sharpie idea is amazing! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Just for an idea on pricing back in about 79. My late father bought me a brand new Hornby Flying Scotsman, it was £18. You could also buy a weeks worth of food shopping for the same money though!
I still love my old Airfix versions - they're noisy but can pull 10 coaches or 50 wagons. In total my 3 4fs cost me less than half the RRP of this new one.
I have a 2P which must be at least 20 years old and quite similar to the version reviewed. Never ran well unless going backwards! My lighter 14xx 0-4-2 managed 5 coaches with ease. I suspect many bought the loco for the livery alone and Hornby used that to justify the price.
My Father is a model rail enthusiast. He's had train sets since the 1960s. He's now doing EM Gauge, and he builds kits that are made from brass. He says, Hornby have always been toys, not models.
I think they’ve used the tender driven version of the loco for the picture I think. You can see where the motor is between the tender wheels unlike the actual model where the can see thru the wholes in the tender frames
Honestly I don’t mind it . I kinda like the simple ish models with metal handrails but yet simple and small detail . Probably cuz I am clumsy and tend to drop my models sometimes (not far) just I will accidentally tip them over with my hand and will knock them of the rails . And that’s why I like railroad and this so much is cuz I don’t need to fear that if I breath on it it will fall to bits . This Fowler for an example is all fine in my books Tho ehh you enjoy detail sam . I like simplicity . I get why you ain’t happy with it . Tho I am chill with it However I do agree with why don’t hornby shove these engines in railroad . It would make my life easy to find on rails of Sheffield honestly . Tho sam have a good day . And if you don’t mind me requesting a running session live for whoever one happens in the future . Maybe all of the fowler 4f engines you own from Bachman , hornby and whoever else has made one for 00 together as a header with one breakvan at the back on full speed down the mainline on your railway 😂 Bye sam and have a good day . Don’t forget to smile 😊
I have tender drive versions from 2003 & 4, which look much more like the illustration than yours, mainly because the gap in front of the firebox is not filled in with the new chassis. Nice model for its time, but nowhere near my expectations today, particularly for that amount of money. Love your channel, by the way!
My biggest concern is the lack of lamp irons. Surely in this day and age that is something which can easily be modelled? Models back in the 80s didn’t have them because the technology wasn’t there, but nowadays it should be something no company should hesitate to add.
Should have brought BACHMANN SDJR 4F NO 58 31-880K. I have both a bachmann and a hornby tender drive and the 2 are not alike from a square builders plate on to the side to the tender which is totally different. So which of the two is correct,? I'm thinking the bachmann.
Thanks for the review, Sam. I was considering buying this because of the livery but now I've changed my mind. I have two of these in the collection. They are good runners and when I bought them I thought they were just about acceptable, price-wise. But this release looks exactly the same as my two. No longer acceptable. I think Hornby should update the tender moulding. The steps combined with the frames are definitely not a 21st century feature! Change the handrail knobs to something more scale appropriate (especially on the smokebox door!). And - as you mentioned - apply some paint detail to the cab. If Hornby did this, it would be a worthy inclusion to the Railroad range. I think it's time we had a modern Fowler 4F. Just imagine what Accurascale could do with this subject, espacially with the huge range of earlier Midland predecessors. But then again, if Accurascale did that, I'd probably have to remortgage my house! 🙂
I have the Bachmann 4F which (despite any shortcomings) runs rings around the hornby tooling. It's time hornby retired this tooling because it's obsolete compared to other more modern tooling 0-6-0 tender engines from other manufacturers. (Oh by the way Sam it's 3924 at the KWVR NOT 3294). Great review!!
When I were a young un in the early 1990's I got a brand new at the time Lima Class 37 in the then new Trans-Rail livery for £40, Lima diesels in my opinion still hold up well today and for a couple of months pocket money you could get a new model. Steam engines like the A4 new would be around the 80 - £100 bracket.
Lol Last weekend I was running my Lima Class 33. When I put it back in its box it still had its price label on it. £19.99. Runs perfectly. Little bit noisy. Should probably replace the traction tyres. It’s been heavily weathered to disguise the very plasticky yellow ends. Other than that, from 3 feet away it’s more than passes muster. A steam loco back then was somewhere around D £40 to £50.
That livery is very gorgeous though, like some of the Caledonian loco's with the similar lining which look nice. Don't fit my model region at ALL but damn it they look good.
You've saved me money! It's not a 3835. It's totally inaccurate and what really made me angry (yes angry) is the fact that Hornby didn't use images of the actual model, but nicer artistically improved photos to make it look better. This model should be priced £90/95 it is awful. I don't always agree with your reviews but this one certainly saved me money. Like you I'm a big fan of S&DJR livery, but this 4F which didn't even run on S&DJR is a crock of dung. Watching your review especially the parts about smoke box and interior of cab, I was thinking, I could paint that and give it more detail, but then I thought WHY? Again, thank you for saving me money. Keep up the good work.
As a matter of prototype accuracy, S&D 4F's were never painted lined blue, or so I believe. They were always black. The same applied to the Bachman 7F 2-8-0 - although its possible a preserved one is painted blue.
This time you not right because i Love the 4f locos! Because in the past i order a Bachmann one (2x) and it fal in pieces before use. Now i have a Br Black 4f yes yes is not the best for the details but it is a great runner!
If this was cheaper and out in the correct range it wouldnt be a bad starter engine. If it were labeled as just a generic 0-6-0 with tender it wouod be great for customization or just a general 0-6-0 with tender
It does look like a good trainset loco, robust, looks apart, and has a short wheelbase. They overpriced it like crazy, instead add some rails a transformer and two coaches to go with it and it might be a bargain
@@WinterroSP no short wheelbase, just about all the Midland 0-6-0’s had 16’6” web, far more than the average. Mind you, there’s about 2’ of scale sideplay in the front wheels and chassis block must be slim enough for a scale narrow gauge locomotive.
Hello Sam - Quite a few years ago I got the Hornby R3316 S&DJr 4-4-0 Class 2P Fowler Loco No. 44 - I'd be interested in seeing the differences!!! On the back of the box - it says the Date Drawn was 1984!!! I've also got the 4F which featured in 'The Railway Children Return'. A nice Loco 🙂🚂🚂🚂
@@andrewcrampton3433 try not using the inflationary calculation: that's for gdp. Outwards / inwards is a lot more reliable: inwards equates to around £156, outwards £173 in today's money.
As a kid, I remember Hornby was the go to train and carriages to get. But now it seems they are stuck in a time bubble and can’t get with the times. This train looks awesome from a view, but needs to be upgraded with details or price downgraded as you said.
@@TheElDoctoro24The Airfix and Mainline ranges were the first to be exclusively produced in China, the Hong Kong part. The 1979 Airfix 4F was Hong Kong made.
Please don't use the base inflationary calculator as that just denotes gdp. A more reliable calculation is done with the inwards flow, outwards flow, market flow, outwards for a £12 item in 1978 is £173 now, inwards around £156.
Only reason I still have an Airfix/Hornby 4F is that they’ve been modelled after a left hand drive loco. The Bachmann one is a right hand drive one making the model of 44571 I wanted inaccurate. I can live with the shoddiness of the old Airfix/Hornby one 😅
Regarding price levels; look at Marklin or Roco (for continentals like me) new issues are often priced between 200 and 500 euros or even more. That's probably what Hornby is aiming for.
@@Buurtspoor No doubt Hornby aspires to Marklin's and Roco's price point, but their models (even the Dublo) have neither the detail or quality to justify that price point.
Oops, looks like Sam missed a big glue blob; I noticed it on the front of the cab near the boiler and the window on the Fireman’s side. Either that, or someone got a hot soldering iron too close to the plastic body shell there, and it melted. 😫 This was probably just an oopsie at the factory, not a design problem.
I have reviewed this already. I compared it to the much better Bachmann version. Getting that even second hand is over £200 for the blue livery. The price at the retailers is not too bad for the Hornby. It was the livery that swung it for me. Cheers Paul.
I think you should compare the two Sam. The Bachmann one (non-s&djr) is still available new at limited retailers for £140, and second hand for £100 to £120. Why would I spend £154 on this in that case? To be fair I didn't, I got a Bachmann one of eBay for about £90.
Hi Sam, like you I really like the Livery, but it is not up to days standard. When Rails offers this model at 50% reduced price then I might consider it. A brilliant review Sam as always, keep up the good work. Regards from Ron 🚂👍😃🚂
Yeah it's very pricey unfortunately - I'd wait and see if the prices come down... willing to bet this'll turn up in the sale! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Well now I’m actually thinking of using an oxford rails dean goods because their not as pricey and have a more James feel to me (idea heavily inspired by TrainBoy) Also love your videos, keep up the good work ⭐️
I was originally going to pre-order this and the 2P. However, I have the not so old 2P, which looks the same and the Hornby Railway Children 4P and three Bachmann 4Ps that look and perform better.
Although I have GMR / Airfix catalogue of 1980, it does not have a price list. However, in 1981, a Hornby R376 LMS 4-4-0 Compound cost £26.95 and a Flying Scotsman £27.50. A Hornby LMS Class 4P 2-6-4 cost £21.95.
According to another comment, the price for the 4F in 1978 was allegedly £16-£17, so a notable increase in just a couple years. Sounds like Hornby, alright.
@@bavarianbanshee I have found a 1980 GMR price list and the suggested retail price was £18.95. I also recall that inflation rose in 1970 and 1980, not helped by VAT going up in the 1979 (Conservative) budget.
Hornby: “why are our sales so bad now?”
Also Hornby:
hahaha!
I can’t wait for The Beatles edition
The Fab 4F.
@@TheElDoctoro24 🤣🤣
@@blakesmith6303😂😂
You got me. Ha ha.
'They just don't care, do they?' You hit the nail on the head with that comment. Hornby show every day that they do not care about their customers. It is mainly about maximum profit for minimum effort in a desperate attempt to keep the ship afloat, they are not even remotely bothered about ripping off the unwary.
You could say the same about Dovetail Games; the developers of Train Sim World.
My sentiments entirely. Trouble is, I am now very careful what I preorder off them, if anything. I can't be the only one.
@@cbrooks122000 I only preorder from retailers, never direct from Hornby. Even then try to stick to models that are a known quantity (i.e. re-releases) rather than all-new models as you have no idea what is going to turn up. I don't buy much Hornby now, but that wasn't always the case.
More recycled content than off-brand bog roll
@@Bop7324Hey, at least you can use the bog roll for wiping yourself with. Can’t do that with a Hornby product lol!
10:51 funny story about that Sam. I think Hornby were using a old photo of the tender driven version, you can still see the gears in the tender and the plastic wheels. Sometimes Hornby.
Cheers Jasper & Willow
Yeah that's right - why they do that I don't know!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam is the only RUclips reviewer giving honest reviews. One very high profile “reviewer” once remarked to an associate that they can’t give bad reviews or “companies would stop sending me stuff”. So good on Sam for putting his hand in his pockets rather than ass-kissing freebies. I do wish he’d build a proper test track though.
you should start a "lemons to lemonade" series. Take this loco and see what it takes to make it into an acceptable one. New motor, re gauging, body modifications etc.
Great suggestion, yes please Sam!👍
I have the SDJR 2P for quite some years now, why can't Hornby just be honest and put these ancient toolings in the Railroad range. 😐
It’s baffling that Hornby tries to squeeze so much money from the customers with these old locomotives, it would be more profitable to do the exact opposite and have a nice range of older, but still competent locomotives for budget modellers and younger people. The market for affordable models is wide open but it seems nobody has any big interest in capitalizing on it.
Money 🦀
Yah I totally agree, why are British manufacturers ignoring that market? Maybe it's because you Brits are all filthy rich and put up with overpriced models? Based on Hornby's finances I don't think that's the case. 🤣
Robbery !😂
Honestly, if they sold this for £80 and put it in the railroad range it would be forgivable.
I have just bought a Airfix 4f of ebay for £30 and saved myself £120 😃
Correct strategy. I paid £14 for a 💯 boxed example 😜
But they ran like crap in 1985 so why would it have improved?
It's a lovely £50 - £60 model...
I have 4323 in LMS black, purchased in 2017 I think. The box on that also omits the gearbox area from the photo, which is blatantly different to the actual model.
RRP for the Fowler 4F in January 1979 was £13.75 according to the retail price list. Which, according to the Bank of England's inflation calculator, is worth £65.78 in Sept 2024.
The original price would've included development costs. However, Hornby has no development costs for this loco, being identical in terms of tooling to one released 10+ years ago (including pickups and DCC socket), and they've done plenty of S&DJR locos recently, so livery development and production is also minimal.
The biggest question is, why isn't this and the 2P in the Railroad Plus range?
It's a shame the bachmann ones aren't more available. I'm not sure if I've ever seen one for sale.
Wanna know the cheery on top? These locos never had prussian blue. Only freight black. They also had smaller Johnson tenders
Different prototype as well
You can’t tell Hornby or Corgi that they have got liverires wrong. I’ve tried that even explaining where they can read articles on the model. They just don’t want to know.
You made a mistake in trusting Hornby's own website would have accurate information about the motor when it also says the 4F is a 4P without NEM couplings.
I really don't understand the people who say Sam is biased against Hornby when Hornby keep selling bad models at stupid prices using photoshopped promotional images of different models(!) with inaccurate listings.
I have a pre-order of Rapido's O1 in the even fancier SECR livery for only £15 more than what Hornby are trying to sell this Airfix paperweight for.
Could it be people might be biased the other direction?
@@Alpha-oo8 Yes I refer to it as the Hornby Mafia or Hornby Lovers Club. Take a trip to the Hornby Forum and you will see what I mean. Most of them are non paid testers for Hornby, so they love the company, not realising that Hornby is taking advantage of them as well.
Really good review, thanks. Unfortunately, I pre ordered this and was horrified when it arrived. I was even threatened with being thrown off RMWeb because I started a thread saying how bad it was. My one had an electrical issue, when I tried to fit DCC my controller kept shorting out, so I completely rewired it, so I doubt your test was the issue. Hornby seem to have an issue with tolerances, the reason the chassis is a tight fit in the body is the gap is not big enough. I slightly filed mine and now it fits properly. My conclusions were the same as yours, good paint job but the rest is rubbish. I stupidly thought they might have improved it a bit. The only thing that was good was I saw your last review and realised that they hadn't changed anything. The windows look glazed but I am pretty sure they are not. To be honest it has put me off ordering any more models off Hornby and the "Hornby lovers" telling me that it is my fault for expecting too much, didn't help. Oh and the other thing is the pickups are a pig to get right I am sure mine weren't working properly, so from a production point of view a difficult and time consuming task. Wonder if Dremel Jenny will get lent one to tell us how wonderful it is.
Getting a warning from Andy York should be a badge of honour. He is hyper sensitive to some comments as though he is personally invested in the product, manufacturer or retailer, but lets endless other drivel through on other subjects. I made a fairly innocuous comment about the demise of Hattons being possibly due to a high volume/low margin model being at risk if volumes fell and quick as a flash I was warned. Was almost as if AY was a shareholder. Dare I say, I was almost certainly correct!
As the truth came out, my unacceptable comment was repeated more than once and tolerated because it was 100% reasonable.
The sniffy put down I got was along the lines of what would I know about running a business which is actually quite a bit!
Unfortunately I think they brown nose the manufacturers a lot - I think it’s important for them to stay on the good side of the manufacturers… otherwise they risk losing those review samples and magazine ads… so too much negativity about a manufacturer on RMweb and threads get locked etc. it’s a different story with me though… pages and pages of negativity about me, and it’s all fine… perhaps I should pay for an ad spot with them and get the red carpet rolled out 😉
I like it when that happens though… the views come rolling in!
Very interesting you had the same issue with the wiring too - would love to have taken a look at the wires before the issue developed!
@@SamsTrains Thanks for the reply, yes I wondered that as well. Don't ever change, I really like your reviews and if you say a model is good I generally buy it.
@@bertbristow7172 Thanks for the reply. The last warning I got was a carbon copy of the previous so he obviously didn't even think about it.
@@cbrooks122000 well at least you could say he personalised mine with gratuitous dissing of my business acumen!
Years ago, I complained about a so called layout thread that repeatedly plugged the OP’s own commercially available products with no pretence of layout progression. No action ever taken. Enough said, the firm was an advertiser naturally.
Hi Sam. Don't you just love it when a loco lives to your expectations!? I think the 1978 and the drawings on the box says it all.
Yes, put it in the Railroad range, and reintroduce the old Triang clerestories in SDJR blue...
1980 just phoned. Loves the paint job.
They’re so desperate now that they’re not even using the actual model on the website, it just goes to show how greedy Hornby are now-a-days.
It's crazy isn't it? Inexcusable!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Greedy, or circling the drain.
Hi Sam,
Hornby's 8f is another ancient tooling in the main range and is ridiculously priced the same as the newly tooled 9f which has a diecast boiler, firebox flicker and superb level of detail.
I don't mind Hornby releasing locos with ancient tooling, but stick them in them Railroad range and price them accordingly.
I agree with you on the edited images too. Surely that's false advertising?
N.B. The humped coal load is from when the model was tender drive so that the ringfield motor could fit. Whenever you see that on a Hornby loco you know it's an old tooling.
Oh don't get me started on the 8F... ridiculous! I think it is too - reckon we'll see those photos mysteriously change soon ;)
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I couldn't believe the 8f, do you know the latest one is worse than the previous version. The smoke box door is the Railroad molded version rather than the one with separately fitted items. When Rails pointed it out to the Hornby representatives they couldn't understand how that happened.
I think this one of your best reviews!
If Hornby marketed these as Airfix badged retro offerings for a decent price and not tried and pass them off as new premium models people might forgive the quirks and faults. Thing is if people keep buying this stuff they’ll keep churning it out.
1978...very very old .....thanks Sam i feel ancient 😢
Omg I was about 12 years old when Airfix (GMR) first brought this loco out 😊
Airfix sell old old tooled kits as "Classic". These are not always cheap because they have new decals (that can be a substantial part of the cost) but you know what to expect. They say the date of the tool on the box. You wouldn't think the two companies are in the same group, Hornby appears to show contempt for their customers with a lot of their products.
I've got one of these as a display piece but I agree. It looks really good.
This model seems to be indicative of hornby in general right now.
Expensive and not best in class. Many modellers just want trains that work, you can put them on the tracks and they will run without issues.
Hornby need to invest in their mechanisms and be the most reliable... if sam could just say about hornby that you know when you buy one that the trains will just run and are super reliable we could all overlook the other issues.
Instead they try to be a jack of all trades and master of none. They have lost their identity
I managed to pick up a sound fitted turbomotive at a retailer for more or less the same price as this engines full RRP.
(Hooray for retailers!)
I found the wheel with the tyre on made the loco rock. I removed the tyre and fixed the issue. No issue with pulling
"Old Tool" I see what you did there Sam
Also, I had a couple of questions that I wanted to ask under the model railway news video, but forgot to ask:
1. Did you know that Hornby made Locomotion No. 1 a Club Exclusive model?
2. Which version of the Rapido MR 483 are you going to get? A fitting question I think for this video, especially since that model also comes in an S&DJR Blue
I dont think Locomotion No.1 as a whole is now a club exclusive, I think they are just making a Club exclusive version
@@harrytodhunter5078 There is only one version anyways, the S&DR one
Locomotion number 1 in main range is it is today while the club exclusive is as it was new
hahaha yeah!
Yep I saw the club exclusive one - not doing that though! That's a good question - can't decide between the MR and SDJR ones!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Just as well I didn't get this then. Saving my money for an Accurascale class 31 instead
3:53 I'm glad you mentioned this.
There are several differences between the 3835 Class and the later LMS built 4Fs (just to make life interesting, the 3835s were also classified as 4Fs). The 3835s had the earlier Johnson tenders, with a flared top, whereas the 4Fs had the later Fowler tenders. The 3835s had beading on the splashers, compared to the smooth splashers on the 4Fs. Furthermore like all Midland Railway built locomotives (including the 483 Class 4-4-0 that Rapido are modelling) the 3835s were right-hand drive, with the reversing lever and injector located on the right-hand side of the loco, with the LMS built 4Fs having them on the left-hand side.
You can get a more accurate model of a S&DJR Class 3835, if you're prepared to pay for it: Bachmann produced an exclusive version of their '4F', 31-880K, in S&DJR Blue for their Collectors Club. And when I say you have to pay for I'm not joking; whenever these models appear they're usually selling for around £300. So as much as it irritates me, I have bought Hornby's model, which will have to do until such time as I a feel capable of repainting a Bachmann 3835 from BR Black to S&DJR Blue.
The tender is a Fowler one which is only correct for a 4F. This model requires a Johnson tender. Not only is it wrong hand drive but the vacuum ejector is also on the wrong side for a 3835 class. I know it's a old tooling but to issue a model with so many errors at a premium price really is taking the mickey!
That’s shocking. I’m just going through some photos of the real locos to check things like that. Hornby should be ashamed of themselves.
Very good honest review of a model from yesterday year, the reworking hasn’t really added much to it, Hornby doing the bad things the way they know best, traction tyres are a sign of desperation in my opinion, I’m glad Sam shows us what Hornby are up to and calls it out.
Thank you! Yeah a pretty lazy release I think - no effort!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I have the hornby 2p(old tooling). i got it for 59 pounds. It's not a great model, but it's a decent one. Now, if i ever find it on sales, it's 129 to 159 pounds
Railroad model at a premium price
Thanks for that very honest review Sam! I must admit I was considering buying this loco, but now I think I'll pass, so thank you for your very timely and sage advice once more!
The 4F is one
of my favourite locos
I'm falling behind on schoolwork, oh well watching Sam's new video is way more important. 😅
Ooh dear - don't fall behind at school!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Good to see the 1978 box slip engine drawing was drawn in 3rd Angle Projection.
4:55 When the Tooling was first produced by Airfix it was released at £16.50 RRP. When Airfix was bought by Hornby it was first introduced in the latter's range in 1998 when it cost £47.25 RRP.
£16.50 in today's money is £118.63.
£47.25 in today's money is £104.20
Great maths............
How did you come to that conclusion with today's money 😂🤦🏻♂️
Don't use just a base inflationary calculation which is gdp. Use inwards/outwards flow adjustment calculations, they're considerably more accurate, indicative is an article costing £15 in 1978 is outwards cost calculating now £173, inwards around £156
@muir8009 - I'm no economist, but my understanding is the inflation measures changes in price of an article over time so would be the correct measurement. Admittedly, inflation looks at changes in costs of a "representative" basket of goods / services and is not sector specific, you may expect specific sectors to perform very differently to the wider economy.
Inflows / outflows is a better measure when analysing a business, but this is not what is being done here.
Maybe I need an economics lesson...
@sportydavek1590 you're on course, that's all good. Think of the other ones I'd mentioned as being more inclusive, that being things like domestic consumables (bills!) Income as to nett wages, mortgage rates, interest rates etc, outgoings being like bills (again!) Rent, taxes, repayments, deposits etc, leading to essentially what one might determine as being surplus buying power, I.e moneys left over that maybe used on things like model railways.
If you could imagine the 4f you bought in 1978 costs, say £20. Now, that inflationary calculator works it out as £63 today. However in 1978 power, fuel etc might’ve been x% of a nett income, rent being x% of outgoings, transport costs etc, so seemingly say you earn £630 a week today, that £63 a week is great stuff, lots cheaper than the asking price of £155. However, back in 1978 your income may have been £250, however relative to your income outgoings, expenditures etc may have been considerably eating into a domestic budget. So instead of buying your today loco and having a great amount of change left over at the end of the week, your train expenditure in 1978 might’ve been crippling, thence the calculation is worked out on the principal of purchasing power.
Funny, my current mortgage is 2.6 p.a%.
My parents mortgage all those decades ago notched up to 25 p.a% during one of those many economic roadblocks that pop up all the time.
Tbh, I always feel that the new/old price comparisons are a bit out of play.
By this, I feel it should be more what contemporary pricing of similar field items is a better indicator.
As in, this hornby 4f thing, how does it compare with: others in the same price area OR, similar spec locos pricing: then it can be called out for what it is, as others have done.
This in mind, in 1978 it may have been a jolly decent loco, or not that good. It may have been really expensive, it may have been really cheap. That's where a contemporary comparison actually serves our purposes better.
I know my response is full of opinion, but I'm hoping you get where I'm coming from :)
That site photo still has the gears visible in the tender too. This is sadly why I haven't brought any new Hornby loco's this year. The price and quality are not worth it. Good tip for the cab details is to buy a set of metal colour Sharpie permanent markers. You get gold, silver and copper and they are great for giving some colour to they unpainted cab and then a drop of red paint on the Regulator handle.
Yeah it's weird isn't it? Can they not update their photo of the model to the latest version? The sharpie idea is amazing!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Great tip on the cab detail I’m going to try it. But to Sam’s point on a £150+ model should we be expected to do that?
We have a beautiful loco here in Victoria (Australia) being K183 in very similar Blue livery which looks stunning
Original Airfix versions of the 4F can be had from eBay for £25, same tooling but tender driven.
I was tempted to buy this and the 2P in SDJR liveries but the price put me off, especially as I have old SDJR ones.
Yeah - for £100 these would've been okay... otherwise nope!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I saw the 2P in gaugemaster today. I am still relatively inexperienced but even to me it looked bad, really crude looking.
Just for an idea on pricing back in about 79. My late father bought me a brand new Hornby Flying Scotsman, it was £18. You could also buy a weeks worth of food shopping for the same money though!
I still love my old Airfix versions - they're noisy but can pull 10 coaches or 50 wagons. In total my 3 4fs cost me less than half the RRP of this new one.
I bought my Airfix 4F in '89 from Gaugemaster for L18.
Great review sam 👏 👍 😊 100 % right ✅
I have a 2P which must be at least 20 years old and quite similar to the version reviewed. Never ran well unless going backwards! My lighter 14xx 0-4-2 managed 5 coaches with ease. I suspect many bought the loco for the livery alone and Hornby used that to justify the price.
Awesome video Sam
My Father is a model rail enthusiast. He's had train sets since the 1960s. He's now doing EM Gauge, and he builds kits that are made from brass. He says, Hornby have always been toys, not models.
Great honest review Sam ...but bit of a ' Norwegian Blue ' - ' Beautiful Plumage though '
I think they’ve used the tender driven version of the loco for the picture I think. You can see where the motor is between the tender wheels unlike the actual model where the can see thru the wholes in the tender frames
Honestly
I don’t mind it . I kinda like the simple ish models with metal handrails but yet simple and small detail .
Probably cuz I am clumsy and tend to drop my models sometimes (not far) just I will accidentally tip them over with my hand and will knock them of the rails . And that’s why I like railroad and this so much is cuz I don’t need to fear that if I breath on it it will fall to bits . This Fowler for an example is all fine in my books
Tho ehh you enjoy detail sam . I like simplicity .
I get why you ain’t happy with it . Tho I am chill with it
However I do agree with why don’t hornby shove these engines in railroad . It would make my life easy to find on rails of Sheffield honestly .
Tho sam have a good day . And if you don’t mind me requesting a running session live for whoever one happens in the future . Maybe all of the fowler 4f engines you own from Bachman , hornby and whoever else has made one for 00 together as a header with one breakvan at the back on full speed down the mainline on your railway 😂
Bye sam and have a good day . Don’t forget to smile 😊
I have tender drive versions from 2003 & 4, which look much more like the illustration than yours, mainly because the gap in front of the firebox is not filled in with the new chassis. Nice model for its time, but nowhere near my expectations today, particularly for that amount of money. Love your channel, by the way!
I would have bought this because of the livery as well. Thanks for the review Sam!
Glad I watched this right up the very end 🤣
I’ve been so looking forward to it
Edit- damn it Hornby
My biggest concern is the lack of lamp irons. Surely in this day and age that is something which can easily be modelled? Models back in the 80s didn’t have them because the technology wasn’t there, but nowadays it should be something no company should hesitate to add.
So amazing engine with a great livery.
How many got caught off guard when Sam bellowed "Absolutely not!" on the last part? I know I did! lol
Should have brought BACHMANN SDJR 4F NO 58 31-880K. I have both a bachmann and a hornby tender drive and the 2 are not alike from a square builders plate on to the side to the tender which is totally different. So which of the two is correct,? I'm thinking the bachmann.
Unfortunately that was a collectors club only release and was hard to find on the auction site
Thanks for the review, Sam. I was considering buying this because of the livery but now I've changed my mind. I have two of these in the collection. They are good runners and when I bought them I thought they were just about acceptable, price-wise. But this release looks exactly the same as my two. No longer acceptable.
I think Hornby should update the tender moulding. The steps combined with the frames are definitely not a 21st century feature! Change the handrail knobs to something more scale appropriate (especially on the smokebox door!). And - as you mentioned - apply some paint detail to the cab. If Hornby did this, it would be a worthy inclusion to the Railroad range.
I think it's time we had a modern Fowler 4F. Just imagine what Accurascale could do with this subject, espacially with the huge range of earlier Midland predecessors. But then again, if Accurascale did that, I'd probably have to remortgage my house! 🙂
hornby continues to provide me with reasons to only buy second hand and maybe kato pocket line
I have the Bachmann 4F which (despite any shortcomings) runs rings around the hornby tooling. It's time hornby retired this tooling because it's obsolete compared to other more modern tooling 0-6-0 tender engines from other manufacturers. (Oh by the way Sam it's 3924 at the KWVR NOT 3294). Great review!!
The product image is of the older tender drive version of the model that did look a whole lot better than the loco drive version.
When I were a young un in the early 1990's I got a brand new at the time Lima Class 37 in the then new Trans-Rail livery for £40, Lima diesels in my opinion still hold up well today and for a couple of months pocket money you could get a new model. Steam engines like the A4 new would be around the 80 - £100 bracket.
Lol Last weekend I was running my Lima Class 33. When I put it back in its box it still had its price label on it. £19.99. Runs perfectly. Little bit noisy. Should probably replace the traction tyres. It’s been heavily weathered to disguise the very plasticky yellow ends. Other than that, from 3 feet away it’s more than passes muster. A steam loco back then was somewhere around D £40 to £50.
That livery is very gorgeous though, like some of the Caledonian loco's with the similar lining which look nice. Don't fit my model region at ALL but damn it they look good.
You've saved me money! It's not a 3835. It's totally inaccurate and what really made me angry (yes angry) is the fact that Hornby didn't use images of the actual model, but nicer artistically improved photos to make it look better. This model should be priced £90/95 it is awful. I don't always agree with your reviews but this one certainly saved me money. Like you I'm a big fan of S&DJR livery, but this 4F which didn't even run on S&DJR is a crock of dung.
Watching your review especially the parts about smoke box and interior of cab, I was thinking, I could paint that and give it more detail, but then I thought WHY?
Again, thank you for saving me money. Keep up the good work.
As a matter of prototype accuracy, S&D 4F's were never painted lined blue, or so I believe. They were always black. The same applied to the Bachman 7F 2-8-0 - although its possible a preserved one is painted blue.
This time you not right because i Love the 4f locos! Because in the past i order a Bachmann one (2x) and it fal in pieces before use. Now i have a Br Black 4f yes yes is not the best for the details but it is a great runner!
If this was cheaper and out in the correct range it wouldnt be a bad starter engine.
If it were labeled as just a generic 0-6-0 with tender it wouod be great for customization or just a general 0-6-0 with tender
It does look like a good trainset loco, robust, looks apart, and has a short wheelbase. They overpriced it like crazy, instead add some rails a transformer and two coaches to go with it and it might be a bargain
@@WinterroSP no short wheelbase, just about all the Midland 0-6-0’s had 16’6” web, far more than the average. Mind you, there’s about 2’ of scale sideplay in the front wheels and chassis block must be slim enough for a scale narrow gauge locomotive.
Brilliant video Sam :)
LMS on the rear of the tender?
Ha! Good catch, I missed that 'detail'.
Can we get coaches and trucks used on the SDJR?
Non-existent wife, cancel the dinner, sams posted, and were watching it whether you like it or not
Hahahaha I apologise for the ensuing row….
@@SamsTrains understandable
Hello Sam - Quite a few years ago I got the Hornby R3316 S&DJr 4-4-0 Class 2P Fowler Loco No. 44 - I'd be interested in seeing the differences!!! On the back of the box - it says the Date Drawn was 1984!!! I've also got the 4F which featured in 'The Railway Children Return'. A nice Loco 🙂🚂🚂🚂
LMS number on the back of the tender? Surely that doesn't match any S&DJR loco.
Probably be about £40 or under in 1978 prices as Hornby models were quite cleap way back then if you had a good local model shop.
Yeah that's right - I bet it's more expensive adjusting for inflation!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Allowing for inflation £150 would be about £24 in 1979. However I reckon it would have cost something in the £15 to £20 range.
Try £10 😢 The inflation converter makes that £53 in todays money. Tripled in price.
@@andrewcrampton3433 try not using the inflationary calculation: that's for gdp. Outwards / inwards is a lot more reliable: inwards equates to around £156, outwards £173 in today's money.
It looks like the picture on the website is a tender drive to me. I note that also has the ends of the driven axles painted.
How do you calculate pulling power?
As a kid, I remember Hornby was the go to train and carriages to get. But now it seems they are stuck in a time bubble and can’t get with the times. This train looks awesome from a view, but needs to be upgraded with details or price downgraded as you said.
These cost about £12 in 1978 about £63 allowing for inflation now
@@ianlinsey1133 and they went to China to reduce costs…
@@TheElDoctoro24The Airfix and Mainline ranges were the first to be exclusively produced in China, the Hong Kong part. The 1979 Airfix 4F was Hong Kong made.
Please don't use the base inflationary calculator as that just denotes gdp. A more reliable calculation is done with the inwards flow, outwards flow, market flow, outwards for a £12 item in 1978 is £173 now, inwards around £156.
Wooah thats quite the title. This ones gonna be interesting.
Only reason I still have an Airfix/Hornby 4F is that they’ve been modelled after a left hand drive loco. The Bachmann one is a right hand drive one making the model of 44571 I wanted inaccurate. I can live with the shoddiness of the old Airfix/Hornby one 😅
I have the Railway Children version. It was mediocre running on DC but was way better running when using a DCC sound decoder.
First of all it's got the wrong type of tender! The SDJR locos had the Johnson/Deeley type with stepped out coal rails
I saw the announcement post on Hornby social media and got excited now i know its bad ☹️
Yeah I was excited too... lovely livery, shoddy model!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Regarding price levels; look at Marklin or Roco (for continentals like me) new issues are often priced between 200 and 500 euros or even more. That's probably what Hornby is aiming for.
@@Buurtspoor No doubt Hornby aspires to Marklin's and Roco's price point, but their models (even the Dublo) have neither the detail or quality to justify that price point.
The metal is pot metal and not steel right?
Oops, looks like Sam missed a big glue blob; I noticed it on the front of the cab near the boiler and the window on the Fireman’s side. Either that, or someone got a hot soldering iron too close to the plastic body shell there, and it melted. 😫 This was probably just an oopsie at the factory, not a design problem.
I have reviewed this already. I compared it to the much better Bachmann version. Getting that even second hand is over £200 for the blue livery. The price at the retailers is not too bad for the Hornby. It was the livery that swung it for me. Cheers Paul.
Yep - the Bachmann version looks miles better in the SDJR!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I think you should compare the two Sam. The Bachmann one (non-s&djr) is still available new at limited retailers for £140, and second hand for £100 to £120. Why would I spend £154 on this in that case?
To be fair I didn't, I got a Bachmann one of eBay for about £90.
In the listings picture, it also looks like the axle-ends have been painted ...
I noticed that too - also naughty!
i like that steam engine and that reminds me one of the magazine story characters in thomas and friends
A judgement that can only be given in shouting voice.. About sums it up perfectly.. 🚂
Hi Sam, like you I really like the Livery, but it is not up to days standard. When Rails offers this model at 50% reduced price then I might consider it. A brilliant review Sam as always, keep up the good work. Regards from Ron 🚂👍😃🚂
excited to see this video
Is this the old Airfix 4F?
I was actually going to use this for a realistic James custom over the J11 for being too pricey but I’m still not so sure…
Yeah it's very pricey unfortunately - I'd wait and see if the prices come down... willing to bet this'll turn up in the sale!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Well now I’m actually thinking of using an oxford rails dean goods because their not as pricey and have a more James feel to me (idea heavily inspired by TrainBoy)
Also love your videos, keep up the good work ⭐️
I was originally going to pre-order this and the 2P. However, I have the not so old 2P, which looks the same and the Hornby Railway Children 4P and three Bachmann 4Ps that look and perform better.
Although I have GMR / Airfix catalogue of 1980, it does not have a price list. However, in 1981, a Hornby R376 LMS 4-4-0 Compound cost £26.95 and a Flying Scotsman £27.50. A Hornby LMS Class 4P 2-6-4 cost £21.95.
According to another comment, the price for the 4F in 1978 was allegedly £16-£17, so a notable increase in just a couple years. Sounds like Hornby, alright.
@@bavarianbanshee I have found a 1980 GMR price list and the suggested retail price was £18.95. I also recall that inflation rose in 1970 and 1980, not helped by VAT going up in the 1979 (Conservative) budget.