As a clinically trained person I GENUINELY don't recommend Better help. They do NOT always have licensed individuals going therapy. Not saying people there can't be good but it's a HUGELY important thing to have a licensed therapist who has been trained to support you
I’ve had a really good experience with Better Help, but I agree you have to be careful and if your therapist doesn’t work for you it’s ok to bounce and find someone in person. But there are good, licensed therapists on better help, for those who that’s all they can afford.
@@MEMH13 absolutely, but a platform selling therapy that can't guarantee that your will be interacting with an actually licenced therapist is a huge issue
I went to a “how to train up a child” seminar at a church in the Dallas Fort Worth area in 2013. By the end of it I was sitting alone at the table because I kept speaking outloud and saying “are you friggin kidding me?!” “Y’all really believe this?!?!”. I was asked to leave when I begged a young couple who were pregnant with their first to not do this to their baby. The pastor of the church refused to talk to me about them even hosting this conference. Come to find out, the daycare at the church, that I was about to put my 2 year old in, implemented the how to train up a child teachings. ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY not
Well done @KStone9711 ! Thank you, thank you , thank you! No one should hit anyone..ever except in self defence or defence of another! And as an almost 69 year old you better believe I’d defend a child..or an adult! ❤
I identify with so much of your story, thank you so much for your courage in talking about this. It was so confusing and demoralizing and I don't remember a lot. Hearing it from someone else does help me feel less alone and make more sense of it.
First off, the tattoos, the dark makeup, her talking about her trauma while sitting in this throne of a chair, I love it! 😂 Second, it’s heartbreaking to hear about how she was adopted out of foster care where we hear about so much abuse, only to be adopted into a cult where she endured so much more abuse and torture. Such an interesting story that needs to be told and heard, thank you for telling your story Jess!
Its very common, these are breeding cults basically, women who are infertile are shamed. The girl defined people are dangerous, but to hear Kristen talk about how she feels her infertility is a punishment is awful. Above rubies and the Pearls, two of the most influential people within the fundie IBLP group, advocate for adoption in those cases. Adopted children have died at the hands of Pearl supporters
I was told that I couldn't wear golden brown, taupe, mauve, or dark green eye shadow with a lipstick darker than pale pink such as reddish pink, plum, or brownish one. If I were to wear these 'darker' colours of lipstick, then my eyeshadow should be a pale blue or lilac. I am not talking about smokey eye shadow with bright red lipstick, though I do wear smokey eyeshadow with lighter colours on my eyelids. This came from someone working in a psychiatric hospital who came to our womens support group to advise in makeup. I don't have a very pale complexion, so light coloured lipsticks and eyeshadow wouldn't suit me. These were the makeup colours used in the 60s and early to mid 70s. A lot of fundamentalist Christians work in health care, including mental health, and force their ideals on patients and clients.
This is part of my story too. I was adopted out of a family that was cursed with incest (Catholic) only to be abused in my adoptive family until I was a teenager 😭 it's hard not to feel like I was destined to be abused.
@@lemsip207 I know there's been a lot of discussion around Mormon "therapists" and how harmful they often are. Especially when queer people are sent to them to "fix" them. Because marrying and raping a 14 year old totally fine, being gay you're literally a murderer
Honestly this was the harshest type of abuse I can imagine. What she went through is literally considered torture. Sleep deprivation, psychological abuse , gaslighting, physical abuse...I wish those people will rott in jail. And if there is a place like hell, everyone involved with the taking of the baby from the pregnant girl in camp, should get to go there. As a mom, I cannot stand imagining this.
Believe me there is a hell. Those kids lived it with the help of Satan's minions. It's ashame that they used God's Holy Word to do it. Just remember God the father and God the son have the last say. I read the book and JESUS WINS not Satan.
This is not only a PERFECT EXAMPLE of CPS not thoroughly looking into placements and adoptions, but also of why we should actually pay attention to whats going on with our neighbors and members of our communities. I dont advocate for nosieness, but for seeing things that are right in front of our noses sometimes.
You saying nosey reminded me of my grams favorite saying, "I'm not trying to be nosey or anything, but..." because of that I'm proud to say "nah, I'm a nosey MF. Spill the tea." Best case scenario: there is no problem and one is called "a nosey MF" for ensuring there's no problems. Worst case scenario: A living being is in need of help, and not minding your own business saved them. Honestly don't see a down side. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong; but if I'm right, I did my humanly duty.
I'm nosey AF thanks to my own upbringing which wasn't even in a cult. People knew what was going on. Teachers, friends' parents, family members... but never said a word. You see something, SAY SOMETHING!!
My wife had to cut off all contact with her family also. Her mother was only allowed to visit our daughters at our home but I had to supervise. One night in her group session she was asked " why are you allowed to leave the situation but knowing what could happen if left alone with your mother your husband is forced into accepting her into your home. That was when contact with our children was stopped. Her mother and stepfather threatened to take me to court over grandparents rights. My reply was "are you willing for your daughter to explain why we will not allow you around our girls in open court?" That was the last time we ever heard from them. That was 30 years ago. Yes we did break the cycle and our daughters have always known the full truth as to why they did not see their grandparents.
I am almost done with this episode and had to pause. I have tears streaming down my face. This mirrors my story so much. Her mom and my mom are emotional abuse twins. I cannot stop the tears. I thought Ashely Easter's episode was healing, but this, this is so much. This was my catholic upbringing in every way and a little more. 5mins left. I can do this. Thank you Shalise and Jess. You have no idea how much this episode means to me. ❤❤
Thank you so so much for sharing that ❤️ I know how difficult these episodes can be to get through. You’re brave for listening to something that mirrors your own trauma. I hope you can find it helpful and healing ❤️
My mom was my primary abuser too and I relate so much to this one as well. Different maybe for me as a male, but there's a level of hurt that being abused by your mother brings that just cuts you to your core. Mothers are supposed to protect and nurture and I feel so much empathy for anyone who had to go through what we went through.
Just about fell out of my chair when she talked about the hotel in flint, MI. The hotel belongs to the university of Michigan now. I went to college there and the building holds classes on the lower 2 floors and the rest are dorms. I had no idea the IBLP was ever in that area. It’s heartbreaking to think about what she went through in that building.
I have adopted little ones from foster care and my goal is to give them a beautiful life and all the love and care they need. Thank you for the reminder of how precious these lives are. I would be thrilled if my kids were as intelligent, giving, and kind as you.
It's not so much that... It's his unwillingness to gain even a passing grip on understanding human brain development and child psychology. Most people stay single and childless/childfree because they had to be disproportionally responsible for children and have no desire to do it full time- not because they don't understand children. Gothard was basically a narcissist/sociopath luring in vulnerable people and weaponizing their worst fears.
I understand running towards lesser torture to escape greater torture at home. I also know what it's like to have an extremely violent mother. Peer support seems to be a common thread for those of us who make it out and begin our healing journey. The internet and social media have really enabled us to find our people and help each other heal. Thanks for another great video.
@@ll1845And more people should, because after all, women do most of the child care and upbringing- often with a situation where the kids are unwanted. At least half of all pregnancies are unplanned. This happens in churches too. The churchgoers are forced to have these kids and keep them.
😳 I'm speechless at some of the horrific stories from these high demand, high control groups. It's heartbreaking but also uplifting to know that they are able to tell their story in a place of kindness and compassion. So much gratitude for what Cults to Conscience is doing.
I understand what it’s like to have an emotionally abusive mother. My therapist once compared my childhood with the experiences of POWS he treated. She had made me terrified of boys (nothing explicit enough for me to to understand). When I didn’t date at a “normal” age, she accused me of a being a lesbian. Because I had been so isolated, I didn’t know what a lesbian was but assumed it was something else wrong about me for which she would never love me. I am so impressed by the courage of the survivors on your show. The amount of child abuse in this country is so widespread and the whole notion that children are somehow the property of their parents contributes to how easy it is to get away with and I think to the ability of these cults to get away with what they do for far to long.
Yes,child abuse is rampant in America, this country has the highest rates of child abuse,and violence in general- compared to the other Western countries. So it's not anyone's imagination. Things are that bad. Drug culture fuels the secular version, while church cultures fuel this kind you see in Fundie churches.
@@LeahDyson-kq4bd Yes, it is..but I escaped. I was precocious and read Freud when I was 11 or 12. I didn’t understand a lot of it but he talked about a patient who had nightmares about her mother being a witch crawling into her widow. I had that nightmare myself. It was an awakening. By the time I started college I’d read Jung…I started therapy as soon I got away from home and started college. It took decades off and on of therapy…I’m 73 and therapists I saw when in my teens and even thirties had a lot of trouble dealing with a patient with such an abusive mother. I did heal from some of it and eventually found the therapist I mentioned above who diagnosed me with PTSD from my childhood much worsened by abusive relationships I had experienced. I healed from some of it and learned to manage the rest. The therapeutic process was at very painful, but I struck it out and I’ve had a good life thank to his guidance. It’s not something you ever fully heal from, as the movies make it seem. At times I’ve been able to support other women and men from similar backgrounds…it’s still harder for men to get help when maternally abused especially when it includes sexual abuse. The myth around mothering which came about in the 19thC is very powerful.
I am so glad I found your channel. I wasn't raised in a cult BUT I did grow up in Central NY near where Mormonism was founded and I think a lot of the teachings are ENGRAINED in just life. I work overnights and have basically caught up on all of your content within basically 2 weeks lol. This channel has made me so happy that I wasn't "the only one." It's so weird that I wasn't technically in a cult but a lot of my seclusion was similar in nature. (very rural upbringing) You all are amazing and I am so happy to have found a community that I blend in with, unlike my family who I am still the black sheep of. Thank you thank you thank you for your channel and your guests!!!!!
This story is so freaking sad. Not only did Jess suffer abuse in the cult, she also suffered abuse at home, and I just can't imagine. I really wish her all the best.
Praying the salvation prayer time after time after time because you were told you weren't Saved is such the quintessential Evangelical experience from my youth too. I can remember crying in a ball in 5th grade, because I was too afraid to die, because what if I wasn't "really" Saved? And when I did go up for baptism more than decade after the first time being "Saved" the main reaction was, "we could always tell you weren't really a Christian."
My stepmother said that to me. I know you walked an isle and got baptized but how do you know you are saved and going to heaven. She thinks that I am going to he'll cause I don't attend her church, I don't carry around a Bible. I don't act according to her a Christian. But news flash. WHAT MORE CAN JESUS DO. HE DIED ON A CROSS FOR EVERYBODY. IF YOU ASK HIM INTO YOUR HEART AND GET SAVED AND BAPTIZED BUT MAINLY SAVED WHAT MORE. IT IS BY FAITH. THANK GOD I GOT AWAY FROM HER TOXICITY. I FELT NO MATTER WHAT I DID OR DO I NEVER MEASURE UP. SHE NEVER REALY HELPED ME UNLESS SHE REALLY WANTD TO. I WAS EMOTIONALLY ABUSED, PHYSICALLY ABUSED BY HER. MY DAD WAS EVEN WORSE CAUSE HE SEXUALLY ABUSED ME. HE EVENTUALLY DIED SO DID MY BIOLOGICAL MOTHER. MY BIOLOGICAL MOTHER GOT REMARRIED AND SO I HAVE A STEPFATHER. BUT MY DAD AND STEPMOTHER DIVORCED SO ALL SHE WAS IS A GUARDIAN CAUSE I REALLY DID NOT KNOW MY BIOLOGICAL MOTHER.
I remember when duggars first started on TV i remember thinking that just something wasnt right. Im from AR and southern baptist and only a little over an hr south from this plantation she is talking about and 2 hrs from the Little Rock Training Center. When some of the details of fhe duggars/IBLP came out i was just shocked and mortified the more i have learned and so scary it is so close. Loving your channel shelise!! And so proud of how far you have come Jess!!❤
I listen to these bit by bit. I spent 20 years in a church that was very heavily influenced by Gothard. It's good to hear about other people's journeys but it's also painful and triggering. Thank you for what you're doing.
It makes me wonder how much of IBLP is affecting evangelical Christianity in the UK now through books written by people brainwashed by it and visiting speakers. I know that No Greater Joy and Focus on the Family through books written by the Pearls and James Dobson have affected them. So many ex evangelicals in the UK who are now atheists, agnostics and liberal Christians.
@@lemsip207 I don’t think you can compare Focus on The Family to Michael Pearl’s To Train Up A Child book. Focus On the Family has a much more gracious, Christlike attitude and doesn’t promote child abuse of any kind.
Secular (Humanist) homeschool mom here!!! Just wanting to let you know that we do exist, and we do succeed. My kids are now 23yo (today actually) & 21yo, both lovely & amazing people, each in their own right. I really enjoy the adults they have grown in to, which I think was the mission the whole time.
I am a Conservative Christian, and I disagree so much with Bill Gothards teaching and the IBLP. I had wonderful Christian parents. My upbringing was nothing like so many talk about from Conservative Christian homes. It is sad to me that so many completely deconstruct from Christianity. If parents are too strict, it breeds rebellion.
The Bible carries tons of justification for this kind of activity... No amount of "we cannot hope to know god's ways as mere humans" is going to track when you consider that, for the biblical account to be true, god planted the temptation in the first place- knowing his creation was too fallible to fully heed his instruction. And god is omnipotent so he knew they would mess up and still punished them instead of structuring the environment to their capabilities as people. Satan barely even did anything in the biblical account. Most of the agony and punishments were inflicted by Yahweh (who was literally a pagan war deity separated from his pantheon).The Mosaic laws say that there's basically nothing wrong with harming your slave to the max as long as they don't die on the 4th day. Entire bloodlines were sold into slavery based on the behavior of their parents. If a woman was r*ped, she often had to marry her assaultor. Women suspected of cheating would be given a liquid by the priest to drink that would "off" their fetuses and potentially make them barren. Because "all life matters at any phase, but apparently not if the parents sinned." The men faced nothing comparable. Yahweh instructed the Israelites to k*ll everyone in a given city and only take the virgin daughters of the population. For reference: virginity was based on whether the hymen was intact. These girls lost everything, watched their families be m*ordered around them, were pinned down by grown men, and fingered. And this kind of treatment would absolutely break their hymens, implying that many of them were s*sexually assaulted and m*rdered on Yahweh's orders or sold into s*xual slavery. Yahweh also instructed the Israelites to cut fetuses out of their mothers, which flies directly in the face of a god who supposedly wants life protected at all phases. A merciful god, who truly loves everyone, has no reason to torture so many people. And a truly merciful god wouldn't later turn around to say, "See? My own son was tortured and m*rdered by the state so it's all evensies! Ignore what I said earlier!!"
My heart is breaking for you - if I could reach through the screen and give you the love and comfort my own daughter and sons receive from me, I would do it in a heartbeat. You deserve a life of acceptance and all things wonderful and I hope that you have created that for yourself.
Her mother reminds me of the mother in Carrie (the Steven King book/movie). I’m so sorry that her childhood was nonexistent. Nurturing our inner child is so paramount when working through this kind of abuse.
That's what makes Steven King's books so horrifying, his villains are rarely supernatural monsters, the scariest are just humans that are so well written and researched.
Saw the film at the time it first came out. I thought this was just an exaggeration or a weird cult such as the JWs or the Children of God. In the book, there were much cooler Christians in the same school who didn't live like that who listened to Christian music that was like secular music but looking back that copy cat music was so cringe. Even more so than the average covers band on the pub or some up and coming teenage band that have yet to learn their musical instruments properly. A lot of the top secular bands started off like that though. I think the Kaiser Chiefs were a Beatles tribute band and the Manic Street Preachers were effectively a Clash tribute band even though they wrote some of the songs they performed in pubs.
My mother was not as extreme. I found out in my 30s that my mom was a victim of child SA and has blamed herself all these years. And growing up she wanted to keep me as "pure" as possible so even when I was a teenager and coming into my sexuality, I could never talk to her about feelings that I didn't understand. Sex was a dirty word, especially in the churches and schools she put us into. I was made to be "obedient" early on with James Dobson, and Bill Gothard, and Bob Jones, Arlin and Bekah Horton, and the Pearls.
My church followed this IBLP .. this lady is describing my childhood .. I was constantly ridiculed for the way I looked and accused of doing thing I never did.. and could never be a good enough Christian in the eyes of my church .. it was really hurtful trying to live up to their standards.
Exactly. Deborah, you have witchy hair. (Straight and slick and thick and wouldn’t be contained) Deborah, your skin is just too green! (I’m olive skinned like my dad instead of peaches and cream like my sisters) Deborah, your nose is so narrow and pointed! (Another feature of my dad’s. My sisters called me ski slope for my nose and banana boobs because my breasts are wide set and narrow) Deborah, you’re an ugly child! (Meaning I was having a bad attitude but knowing what I was hearing her to say.) I grew up thinking I looked like the wicked witch in the Wizard of Oz. I didn’t know I was pretty until I was in my 50s and realized my beautiful daughters looked so much like me as a young woman. It broke my heart for young me.
So I grew up in the cult of my mother. It's amazing how much I relate to all this but my mother also was obsessed with me being sexual as a pre teen and lied to everyone about it
It's projection. She probably was sexually abused and became hypersexual as a result. She now assumes everyone is the same way because if she accepts it was just her, she has to admit she was a victim. Narcissists see being a victim as a form of criticism, which they can't handle. It's very sick.
I feel like there is something going on here because this is a common thing religious families experience where their mothers become obsessed with the belief their daughters are sexually promiscuous no matter how unrealistic and horrible. Like are they projecting their own guilt onto their daughters? Doing it to justify their abuse? Just doing it for attention and sympathy from other parents in the cult?
I'm so sorry that your mom did that to you. Mine presented me as "perfect" and made me live up to it. Guilt and slapping featured prominently, but never where it would show. May we both work through our shit fabulously.
As a Christian woman mother and grandmother I’m sitting here speechless I have no words this story is absolutely heartbreaking and disturbing this is NOT what being a Christian is about God is all about love we are supposed to love and cherish our children and have joy in our lives not this crap I’m so so sorry this happened to this lady Gothard needs to go to prison and so do all the adults that treated these precious children crap I am crying listening to this story thank you for sharing your story sending much love ❤🙏🏼♥️
You are using the "no true scotsman" logical fallacy. These people ARE Christians. This is a result of reading the Bible and taking (certain parts) literally. All Christian sects are harmful to different sets of people. Especially since the Bible contradicts itself many times over. It is not a safe book to base one's morality on. The time for fairy tale religions is over. We know better now. The truth is that there is no proof Jesus even existed. The Romans pushed the religion to get slaves to accept being owned in this life with promises of better times once they died.
Evangelical and fundamentalist Christians believe girls exist to give birth from birth. They only value you for your chastity and ability to give birth. The minute your mensus starts as far as they are concerned your an adult whether 5 years or 12 year old women. You arent a child ever if your female. If you cant give birth then your of no literal value to the church as a whole. You arent a human but an appliance that cooks, cleans, and gives birth.
SAME!!! Jesus Himself taught that the last will be the first and the first will be last!! That the highest in God's kingdom is the lowest servant!!! This patriarchal submission hierarchy is completely against God's will.
Trying to say these people are "not real Christians" isn't helping. These cults thrive IN CHRISTIANITY whether that makes you uncomfortable or not. Your community needs to start holding these people accountable and speaking out against them. Too many Christians just look the other way because they are afraid to admit the abuse that happens in ther communities. All you are doing is enabling them to thrive right under your noses.
i’ve been addicted to your channel and hearing these stories. you talk so much about compassion, and your work inspires me to expand my empathy and understanding while teaching me tools to avoid high control groups ! thank you shelise!
This story is so very familiar. I just turned fifty and am still dealing with the trauma of abusive cult and an abusive mother as well as sexual abuse. I encourage you to keep processing and take care of your health. I wish I had been your age when I started dealing with these issues. I think my health would be so much better. There is hope. There is a great resource for women with Narcissistic mothers called "Will I Ever Be Good Enough? Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers Book by Karyl McBride. This was a huge leap forward in my personal healing. You are not alone. Keep moving forward!
Jess, you did the right thing by cutting off your mother and family of origin. I know how tough it can be. I didn't cut my abusive mother off until I was in my 50's when a psychologist told me that "no one deserved to by verbally abused like that." Your mother sounds a lot like mine only I was raised in the Mormon church. It has taken years of therapy and work on deprograming the crap that she repeatedly told me and I know how hard that work can be, but keep it up it is worth it. You should be proud of your self for braking the cycle of abuse. Keep up the good work.
Thank you! It's good to hear someone else talk about their parents being controlling and using this as a handbook for further control, but it sucks, glad she's free!
Thank you for bringing us another heartbreaking, authentic, honest conversation. It is horrifying what goes on in these groups and it's so important to bring it out into the light. I'm so glad she was able to break away and set boundaries with her mother.
My brother mentioned that his church was doing a class based on this teaching and my mother was HORRIFIED. I saw it in action once and nearly went off on him myself. I'm pretty sure they've given up on it now but I might have to talk to him about it because this is truly the worst way to treat a child.
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. As hard it was for me during and after that experience, it was and is 10x harder for girls and women. I admire and look up to you both. Both of your decisions to leave and become activists shows an immense amount of strength and wisdom.
My grandmother was Baptist and a lot of my life was similar. My grandmother was more obsessed with perfection, selfishness and being a social butterfly. Of course she thought that she was absolutely perfect and beyond reproach and loved going on and on about how "selfish" I was because I wasn't able to emulate her "perfection".
I have been enjoying your channel so much, opening up much reflection of my life, I was born in 1950’s , grew up 60’s, 70’s. Even though I did not grow up in an extreme “ cult”, grew up in the church, most young people my age, rejected the church, parents norms, politics, I was a Hippie. Eventually most of us did become more” normal” , not rejecting all of societal value( materialism) and tried to live our lives with better values and truth than our parents. You and your guests are amazing people, for trying to live your authentic self! ❤
Jess, my heart hurts for you because of all that you were put through. I am so proud for you because you are a good mom, smart, beautiful and well-spoken woman. I hope that you can find support where you are. I'm in Texas, come here and we will be your family. (((hugs)))
I was raised in a strict Southern Baptist family by my grandmother, though it was nowhere near as strict as this. I wasn't allowed to talk to boys or pick my own clothes. My grandmother snooped through my stuff while I was in school so much that when I started writing short stories, they went everywhere with me. I knew from experience that if she read them she'd criticize me and pick at me. I never went fully no contact with her, though I probably should have. I probably would've been better off if I had. Now I have a daughter. She's 13 now. I don't raise her the way I was raised. I don't make her go to church, though if she wants to go, I'll take her. I don't pick her clothes and haven't since about first grade. She loves to draw and she's getting pretty good. I wouldn't dream of telling her that he art is trash, even if it was bad, which it isn't. Also, my grandmother didn't want me doing after school activities because she didn't want to have to come get me. I encourage my kid to do any after school things. I'll pick her up and I attend every concert (She's in the band) I'm just glad I'm able to do better by her than my family did by me.
Listening to this floods my brain with my own childhood memories. My mom didn't let me sleep more than 4 hours a night from the ages 13-18. She would send me to bed, then wake me up to pray and read the Bible for hours. My dad did not tolerate cursing, but we also couldn't say a replacement word. I used to say Oh fudge! Or oh Watermelons! And I would get lectures about my crass language for that. My parents were religiously strict but also very loving. But I was raised to always chase after God with a servant's heart and to be thankful for the challenges thrown my way. To this day, I struggle with people pleasing to a fault and hiding my emotions in all situations. I'm 40 now and just starting to poke at that iceberg with the help of my therapist. I cannot express the amount of confusion I have when it comes to these memories. Thank you for sharing. Your story is so important.
The 1950s housewives had one of the worst mental health crisis we've ever seen, you had all these women who during WW2, actually got some empowerment and freedom, then forced back into the home. Its not a coincidence that feminism started as soon as their daughters were adults. Plus it was primarily white, middle class women, working class women have always worked, POC women have usually always worked. You want to be a housewife and mother I hope you're living your best life. But it has to be your free choice
Hi, I'm from New Zealand and just discovered your channel. What I want to say you are both amazing woman and should be so proud of yourselves. I come from childhood trauma and can relate to some of what you talk about. My mother is a jehova witness and I am no contact with her or my brothers and sister. It's to much disfunction for me. I had severe post natal depression after my first child and it is horrific for any woman to go through. I am the black sheep of my family and I now wear it as a badge of honor. My family dysfunction ends with me.
I have really enjoyed your channel because the interviews have helped me see some of the traumatic situations I was came from… seeing what parts of certain religious systems get sticky and promote which pathological behaviors have helped me look at my own life with a lot more compassion…. This interview made me cry because I know a LOT of people that have been sent to camps like this and/or foster care. It just reaffirms the idea that our job as humanity is to build a more harmonious society where there’s less needless suffering. Thank you.
I am 72. When I was in college several cult members tried to persuade me to join. One was a Scientologist with whom I argued so much he finally gave up. The other was a member of the burgeoning group…forgot the name…which would hand out flowers and pretend to be a legitimate Eastern religion. I just laughed at them. I was lucky as I was raised on philosophers who questioned everything and found them ridiculous. Had I known what happens once they pull you in I would have been even more annoying to them. I feel such sorrow and compassion for people seduced (and I think that’s a good word…the tactics remind me of pedophiles) or born into these groups. I had a dear friend of African descent, who was rapid cycling bipolar (very hard to treat), whose family had to hire someone to get her out of a cult in NY. The sexual abuse she suffered was horrific. The cult pulled her in when she was in an episode and then she was their prisoner. Now that I’ve watched this episode I can understand why she was singled out for abuse by the monster who ran that cult. She told me had said he singled he out because her race made her sexually special. Shudder.
Hello, Ms Sharon. My parents were not philosophers at all, but I was raised the same way. My friends and younger family would intentionally drive these types nuts for entertainment hahaha! Verbal sparring was cheap, amusing and keeps us sharp. Glad there are others!
@@nobody8328 so funny the second I read your response the name came back. They weren’t so sweetness and light within the cult, of course. At the time I thought they were just silly…until much later when people started leaving/escaping.
I hate that term jezebel.....some of these groups have fashioned an entire " Jezebel spirit " , complete with all these traits that supposedly describe a woman with this supposed spirit (that is mentioned nowhere in the Bible )and then weopanize the term against any woman whom they dont see as submissive enough. I had a guy tell me 99 % of women have this spirit. And if you argue ...well, guess what....you have the jezebel spirit yourself. I also know what its like to need emotional help and get accused of having a demon. My chronic depression garnered me a hugely traumatic evening with 2 adults trying to exorcise a demon from me
Wasn’t Jezebel simply the foreign wife of an Israelite king? I *think* in the OT a foreign wife was a no-no. I remember that Jezebel gave the king advice, which he heeded. Bigger no-no. I need to revisit the Jezebel story. I am very sorry that you were subjected to exorcism !
My ex husband called me a Jezebel and told me that I wasn’t a Christian when I divorced him. I told him that if he was a Christian, I didn’t want to be one. I still consider myself to be a follower of Jesus. But I don’t go to church anymore. Organized religion scares the shit out of me. My relationship with Jesus is vertical, not horizontal!!!
Really relate to aspects of this especially the over correction. You’re doing ok don’t be hard on yourself. We can be so hard on yourself as a victim of abuse. Really wish Jess all the healing in the world.
I could listen to a part 2 or 3 with her. I love hearing of how she is realizing the oppresion she endured and there is/was another way to live and be raised. Thanks to both you ladies for sharing❤
Shelise, thank you for having Jess onto share her experience growing up in the IBLP. 💗 I just want to give her a big hug and I am so happy that she has the strength and courage to share her story with all of us. 💞
I slept after watching this and was exhausted....this will happen to thpse of us with CPTSD. Drink water and make time for sleep every night, dress pretty, dance wherever you are standing to move yur body and watch comedy to balance it out. Then watch all the videos. Journal your own story.
I feel so bad for her upbringing. I also came from that same background but I didn’t have as of an extreme experience, but definitely saw people that did, and saw the devastating effects that it could have on a person and even experienced a lot of those on my own that over, correcting and struggling with guilt growing up I’m so happy that you made it out of it OK!
Another example of amazing strength and Resiliency! The ability to recognize what needs to change, and to learn new parenting and living skills. Really awesome and inspiring.
Thank you for telling your story. I am so sorry you went through all of that. I hope you know that that is not the Christianity that it is for other's and that it really was an extremely toxic cult that disguised it's self as the Christian faith. I hope you are able to finally heal and find true joy and happiness in this life.❤
I want thank Jess for sharing. It was really painful when she shared that she never learned to make friends as a child and therefore making them in your 30s is near impossible. I'm in my 30s and I always keep myself open to new friendships, even though I have my road dogs. Jess the more you heal, the more you will attract friends to help you heal. XOXO a friend in the comments!
The programme reminds me of the films The Magadalene Laundries and Philomena, even though they were set in Ireland and were run by Catholic nuns. Plus the novels Broken Flowers and Midnight Flight by Virginia Andrews set in the desert in the USA. The 'leaders' assigned to the cabins are mentors or buddies still in the programme but have been in it longer and have proved themselves as 'succeeding' with it. It's why they are not allowed to 'graduate' from it for years.
I can so relate when you say that you were desperate to please people yet also outspoken. I could not count the number of times I was accused of trying to “power over” my mother, whom I desperately wanted to please and have love me, when I would try to explain to her how I felt and why. And the times I was slapped across the face for speaking up against basic injustice. It’s amazing I never had a black eye. My mom sure knew where it was safe to hit.
She is still so traumatized by het experiences. I can tell by how readily she can remember all these traumatizing experiences. I hope she can find a therapist to help her
You're amazing for all you did and made it through. Breaking our of family cycles and making sure you're doing right by your daughter. I'm trying to do the same. It's not an easy thing to do. Just love her first and foremost and you will try your best. Parenting is hard
My Warmest thoughts and Love and hugs go out to Jess ❤️❤️❤️❤️ I’m speachless right now!!! She shared such a strong and very important message to us in the World outside!!! Thank you so much!
I almost had to stop this video because the abuse Jess had to go through because of an IBLP parent made me sick. I was furious! Why would any adoption agency give this lunatic a child? Awful! Well, we all know Mormonism is a cult and unhealthy but at least you, Shelise, had a good mom. Can you imagine going through all that Mormon stuff AND having an abusive mother and indifferent father??
You girls need to make it happen. Someone out there knows more about this man. Do a Me too" get people talking.!!!! I am 71 but at your age and even now I fight against unjust things. I am sorry all of you had to go through that BS.😢
As someone who grew up homeschooled by parents, one of which was a university professor and just hated the public schooling system, It's scary to imagine it being used by cults to isolate kids. It makes perfect sense though. I thoroughly enjoyed being homeschooled, got accepted at an art university, and now live outside of the USA painting beautiful places around Europe! Homeschooling is fantastic for artistic kids and those who need more space for freedom of expression. It also allows kids to learn at their own pace on subjects that are tricky for them. However, I grew up in a city with plenty of friends and parents who were dedicated to me and my sisters education. Most people don't have the time or willpower to teach their own children every day and some use it to cover abuse, so I believe there should be some type of system to check in and make sure the kids are healthy and at a decent education level. I'm not sure how the system would go about that though...
While some of what is shown here is plain and simple criminal behavior, most of what these people get wrong is the fact that not committing sins is not a useful plan for anyone's life. Doing things, making mistakes, correcting your mistakes, trying things, being mischievous at times, are all parts of a good life that helps with the development of the whole community. Not doing what an old book tells you not to do is as useless as polishing turds.
Her life is similar to mine and it tears me up because our lives have been so much harder than they needed to be. My BFF passed two years ago, unexpected. I was ghosted by my other one. I’m fifty, on disability, and can relate to it being really hard to make friends. I did have a chosen family but they are now gone. You say you wish you were kidnapped-I really thought I was adopted till I was like 17 and had to get a copy of my birth certificate. I also wanted to mention to you how integral it is to get therapy/meds if needed. I don’t know where you live but we have agencies where they base the amount you pay on your ability to pay. Do some sleuthing, maybe where you live has something similar. (Also, you can apply for Medicaid at your local social services center. ❤
Shelise, your so so close to 65, 000 subscribers, you go girl. Your voice is so pleasant and your content is absolutely brilliant. You and John Dehlin at Mormon Stories Podcast are the main people I listen to.
The part about not being able to have children and that being your worth really hit home with me. it is something I've struggled with a lot lately. I'm still afraid my husband will leave to have children with someone who's actually capable of it, even though he has given me no reason to doubt him. I still feel like a bad wife and it's not something I can fix, no matter how hard I try. I just hope one of these bad pregnancies will kill me so I can join my children on the other side.
It doesn't make you a bad wife 💕 Please try to be easier on yourself dear, and if I may gently suggest it, I would recommend getting into therapy to discuss why you feel like you are a failure and desire to die because of your inability to conceive/carry to term, because that is not healthy, and you deserve to love yourself. Genuinely, you deserve to love yourself for who you are. Your purpose in life is more than a vessel for a baby, and you can still be a mother without birthing a child if that is something that you desire and feel strongly like your purpose is to be a mother. There are many children in foster care being abused or placed in group homes because there aren't enough kind and loving families to take them in and offer them safety and protection and love. I urge you to please seek help for your negative thoughts of yourself, because you are worthy of life and love and happiness even if you cannot carry a child in your womb 💕 sending you love from a random stranger on the internet!
I had a partial hysterectomy about 9 years ago. Didn't have kids prior. It's really sad when YOU truly can't have bio babies and others just don't get it. YET I want women to have the choice. HELL YEAH!!!
I don’t know if you follow your replies, but you are not alone in this… so many others are out there working through this. I hope that you’re able to communicate with your spouse- maybe even with a therapist- about the sadness. I encourage you to look for a licensed secular counselor and to talk to your obgyn… because there isn’t blame in not succeeding. We don’t talk about how many women have these issues often so many people aren’t even aware. Get accurate info from your doctors and trust them. In the meantime, having experienced this situation, it plays out differently in every situation, and taking a break so your body and mind can recover has definitely helped me and a lot of the people I know who have lost pregnancies. Don’t rush heaven because you are here to do good things now.
You are not a bad wife. Do check with a good fertility specialist if you can. I had seven pregnancies and two living children. But do take care of yourself. The rest will follow.
Oh my GOSH! Second hand cussing!?! So terrible! Yeah, I was giving testimony about something and I used a quote from the Lone Ranger and said "Gosh durnit, Chester!" And got into so much trouble and I was baffled. There i was, pouring out my heart about a struggle and getting in trouble for something so innocuous. And the whole modesty dressing even crept into my wedding at age 35 because I wore a dress where my cleavage showed and my sister was like, "you should be wearing something under that." I still just think back and go, "I felt pretty until she said that and now I'm so annoyed."
It wasn’t until I was in my thirties that I realized that most people have songs that they love from their childhood that they love to listen to and feel nostalgic about. All the songs I listened to as a kid were cringy contemporary Christian songs and worship music that I can’t listen to anymore because there is so much trauma from growing up in the church
I am so impressed with your guests and the way they tell their horrific stories! And your interview style... its absolute perfection. I kept seeing your videos recommended and kept ignoring, just didnt feel in the right headspace to learn about cults... ....this is totally not what i thought your channel would be like and im grateful. It has kept me riveted and needing to hear more.
I really feel for you Jess. I didn't go up in IBLP but I did have a very confusing, difficult childhood where I was constantly judged and punished for things outside of my control such as how I look. As a result, so much of what you said about the comments you received as a child really hit me like blows to the gut because I completely remember the chaos that arose inside of me when I was being "punished" for something I couldn't control - I even cut off all of my hair trying to make myself less than. It never stopped the abuse. Also the difficult decision of having to go no contact with your mother. I have had to do the same thing which has been something that my extended family has not agreed with and causes a constant wave of judgement. It is always - how can you not talk to your mother, she brought you into this world. No one has ever asked, I wonder why you can't talk to your mum. What happened? It's always a judgement that [I] must be at fault and how cruel am I to not allow myself to continue to be abused by a woman who just chooses when to love me and when to dump me at her own discretion. But hearing your story and seeing that you have also had to make similar decisions in your life to my own makes me feel less alone and also gives me a little confidence that I know I made the right decisions for myself (finally). Thank you so much for sharing your story!
I feel bad, I was raised Mormon (still am to an extent) and my parents weren’t really strict on it, in fact whenever I’d stay home sick from school my mom would rent rated-r horror movies. My dad who recently passed introduced me to Hellraiser, and he was a proud Saint that served a 2 year mission in Germany. I don’t blame these victims for what happened to them, I don’t blame them for leaving their cults and pray to whoever is out there that those recovering from IBLP and abusive religious families including ones in Mormonism will all continue to heal and find your own path.
Very sad but very riveting and eye opening interview. My question is (and maybe I missed it) but no mention of her sister and whether there is a relationship with her?
Thank you, Jess for being so open and vulnerable in sharing your experiences with us! It makes me realize how resilient we truly are as human beings! We can go through these difficult times and at least do better than what we had. For our children and our own mental health. We can set boundaries and it's for the best for us to stay away from abusive people and systems.
Congratulations, Jess, on the no-contact with your adopted mother. Not only did you have to deal with the cult context, but also what I perceive to be a malignant narcissist. You have no idea of the peace and harmony that will flow into your life now. You will be able to breathe and express your fun self with an open heart. Do you, gorgeous! Big hugs to you and daughter xxx
As a clinically trained person I GENUINELY don't recommend Better help. They do NOT always have licensed individuals going therapy. Not saying people there can't be good but it's a HUGELY important thing to have a licensed therapist who has been trained to support you
And they sell your information to third parties, including social media sites and advertisers.
❤❤❤❤
Yes!! I have heard many terrible things about this company.
I’ve had a really good experience with Better Help, but I agree you have to be careful and if your therapist doesn’t work for you it’s ok to bounce and find someone in person. But there are good, licensed therapists on better help, for those who that’s all they can afford.
@@MEMH13 absolutely, but a platform selling therapy that can't guarantee that your will be interacting with an actually licenced therapist is a huge issue
You said it all. Bill Gothard needs to be charged for human trafficking crimes .
Fr he was getting triple paid... by the parents, through the free labor, and from the pecan sales
Pecans ??
I would like to see this but if he did I feel like his followers would view him as a martyr and run with it
human trafficking, s**ual harassment against minors......I know I'm missing several others.
That would be good for a start. Unfortunately, people in Arkansas would support Mr Bill. Their governor supported the Duggers!
I went to a “how to train up a child” seminar at a church in the Dallas Fort Worth area in 2013. By the end of it I was sitting alone at the table because I kept speaking outloud and saying “are you friggin kidding me?!” “Y’all really believe this?!?!”. I was asked to leave when I begged a young couple who were pregnant with their first to not do this to their baby. The pastor of the church refused to talk to me about them even hosting this conference. Come to find out, the daycare at the church, that I was about to put my 2 year old in, implemented the how to train up a child teachings. ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY not
Was that daycare licensed? No Dcfs agent would be ok with the abuse that awful book champions.
Oooo! Lucky save, mama!
Well done @KStone9711 ! Thank you, thank you , thank you! No one should hit anyone..ever except in self defence or defence of another! And as an almost 69 year old you better believe I’d defend a child..or an adult! ❤
I would’ve been right there with you!
I identify with so much of your story, thank you so much for your courage in talking about this. It was so confusing and demoralizing and I don't remember a lot. Hearing it from someone else does help me feel less alone and make more sense of it.
First off, the tattoos, the dark makeup, her talking about her trauma while sitting in this throne of a chair, I love it! 😂 Second, it’s heartbreaking to hear about how she was adopted out of foster care where we hear about so much abuse, only to be adopted into a cult where she endured so much more abuse and torture. Such an interesting story that needs to be told and heard, thank you for telling your story Jess!
Its very common, these are breeding cults basically, women who are infertile are shamed. The girl defined people are dangerous, but to hear Kristen talk about how she feels her infertility is a punishment is awful. Above rubies and the Pearls, two of the most influential people within the fundie IBLP group, advocate for adoption in those cases. Adopted children have died at the hands of Pearl supporters
I was told that I couldn't wear golden brown, taupe, mauve, or dark green eye shadow with a lipstick darker than pale pink such as reddish pink, plum, or brownish one. If I were to wear these 'darker' colours of lipstick, then my eyeshadow should be a pale blue or lilac. I am not talking about smokey eye shadow with bright red lipstick, though I do wear smokey eyeshadow with lighter colours on my eyelids. This came from someone working in a psychiatric hospital who came to our womens support group to advise in makeup. I don't have a very pale complexion, so light coloured lipsticks and eyeshadow wouldn't suit me. These were the makeup colours used in the 60s and early to mid 70s.
A lot of fundamentalist Christians work in health care, including mental health, and force their ideals on patients and clients.
This is part of my story too. I was adopted out of a family that was cursed with incest (Catholic) only to be abused in my adoptive family until I was a teenager 😭 it's hard not to feel like I was destined to be abused.
@@lemsip207 I know there's been a lot of discussion around Mormon "therapists" and how harmful they often are. Especially when queer people are sent to them to "fix" them. Because marrying and raping a 14 year old totally fine, being gay you're literally a murderer
P
Honestly this was the harshest type of abuse I can imagine. What she went through is literally considered torture. Sleep deprivation, psychological abuse , gaslighting, physical abuse...I wish those people will rott in jail. And if there is a place like hell, everyone involved with the taking of the baby from the pregnant girl in camp, should get to go there. As a mom, I cannot stand imagining this.
Believe me there is a hell. Those kids lived it with the help of Satan's minions. It's ashame that they used God's Holy Word to do it. Just remember God the father and God the son have the last say. I read the book and JESUS WINS not Satan.
Break the silence. Break the cycle.
This is not only a PERFECT EXAMPLE of CPS not thoroughly looking into placements and adoptions, but also of why we should actually pay attention to whats going on with our neighbors and members of our communities. I dont advocate for nosieness, but for seeing things that are right in front of our noses sometimes.
CPS only has to hear Christian and that’s it. It’s all good and away they go. No follow up.
@@debshaw680So true and that's why abusers hide behind RELIGION!!! Smh, sick.
You saying nosey reminded me of my grams favorite saying, "I'm not trying to be nosey or anything, but..." because of that I'm proud to say "nah, I'm a nosey MF. Spill the tea."
Best case scenario: there is no problem and one is called "a nosey MF" for ensuring there's no problems.
Worst case scenario: A living being is in need of help, and not minding your own business saved them.
Honestly don't see a down side. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong; but if I'm right, I did my humanly duty.
Honestly, I can’t imagine allowing a couple to homeschool an adopted child.
I'm nosey AF thanks to my own upbringing which wasn't even in a cult. People knew what was going on. Teachers, friends' parents, family members... but never said a word.
You see something, SAY SOMETHING!!
My wife had to cut off all contact with her family also. Her mother was only allowed to visit our daughters at our home but I had to supervise. One night in her group session she was asked " why are you allowed to leave the situation but knowing what could happen if left alone with your mother your husband is forced into accepting her into your home. That was when contact with our children was stopped. Her mother and stepfather threatened to take me to court over grandparents rights. My reply was "are you willing for your daughter to explain why we will not allow you around our girls in open court?" That was the last time we ever heard from them. That was 30 years ago. Yes we did break the cycle and our daughters have always known the full truth as to why they did not see their grandparents.
I am almost done with this episode and had to pause. I have tears streaming down my face. This mirrors my story so much. Her mom and my mom are emotional abuse twins. I cannot stop the tears. I thought Ashely Easter's episode was healing, but this, this is so much. This was my catholic upbringing in every way and a little more. 5mins left. I can do this. Thank you Shalise and Jess. You have no idea how much this episode means to me. ❤❤
Thank you so so much for sharing that ❤️ I know how difficult these episodes can be to get through. You’re brave for listening to something that mirrors your own trauma. I hope you can find it helpful and healing ❤️
I’m so sorry you had to go through that.❤
Most people don't realize that the Catholic religion is occult based and cult like.
My mom was my primary abuser too and I relate so much to this one as well. Different maybe for me as a male, but there's a level of hurt that being abused by your mother brings that just cuts you to your core. Mothers are supposed to protect and nurture and I feel so much empathy for anyone who had to go through what we went through.
*big hugs to you* 🥰🤙🏽💛
Just about fell out of my chair when she talked about the hotel in flint, MI. The hotel belongs to the university of Michigan now. I went to college there and the building holds classes on the lower 2 floors and the rest are dorms. I had no idea the IBLP was ever in that area. It’s heartbreaking to think about what she went through in that building.
I have adopted little ones from foster care and my goal is to give them a beautiful life and all the love and care they need. Thank you for the reminder of how precious these lives are. I would be thrilled if my kids were as intelligent, giving, and kind as you.
I cant understand why people would listen to a man who has never been married or had children.
It's not so much that... It's his unwillingness to gain even a passing grip on understanding human brain development and child psychology. Most people stay single and childless/childfree because they had to be disproportionally responsible for children and have no desire to do it full time- not because they don't understand children. Gothard was basically a narcissist/sociopath luring in vulnerable people and weaponizing their worst fears.
My heart goes out to Jess. I hope that she finds a soft place to land with the support system that she needs.
I understand running towards lesser torture to escape greater torture at home. I also know what it's like to have an extremely violent mother. Peer support seems to be a common thread for those of us who make it out and begin our healing journey. The internet and social media have really enabled us to find our people and help each other heal. Thanks for another great video.
No one talks about mother abuse.
@@ll1845We’re literally talking about it right now.
@@ll1845And more people should, because after all, women do most of the child care and upbringing- often with a situation where the kids are unwanted. At least half of all pregnancies are unplanned. This happens in churches too. The churchgoers are forced to have these kids and keep them.
Best channel on RUclips right now. She's doing a great job exposing this insanity. The truth really is stranger than fiction. And far more horrific.
You’re so kind. Thank you for your support!!
❤❤❤
😳 I'm speechless at some of the horrific stories from these high demand, high control groups. It's heartbreaking but also uplifting to know that they are able to tell their story in a place of kindness and compassion. So much gratitude for what Cults to Conscience is doing.
❤️🙏
I understand what it’s like to have an emotionally abusive mother. My therapist once compared my childhood with the experiences of POWS he treated. She had made me terrified of boys (nothing explicit enough for me to to understand). When I didn’t date at a “normal” age, she accused me of a being a lesbian. Because I had been so isolated, I didn’t know what a lesbian was but assumed it was something else wrong about me for which she would never love me. I am so impressed by the courage of the survivors on your show. The amount of child abuse in this country is so widespread and the whole notion that children are somehow the property of their parents contributes to how easy it is to get away with and I think to the ability of these cults to get away with what they do for far to long.
Yes,child abuse is rampant in America, this country has the highest rates of child abuse,and violence in general- compared to the other Western countries. So it's not anyone's imagination. Things are that bad. Drug culture fuels the secular version, while church cultures fuel this kind you see in Fundie churches.
@@JulieSevelson-nb9nj Not all abusers need drugs or alcohol to be abusive
We are prisoners to our parents it's Stockholm syndrome when it's bad
@@LeahDyson-kq4bd Yes, it is..but I escaped. I was precocious and read Freud when I was 11 or 12. I didn’t understand a lot of it but he talked about a patient who had nightmares about her mother being a witch crawling into her widow. I had that nightmare myself. It was an awakening. By the time I started college I’d read Jung…I started therapy as soon I got away from home and started college. It took decades off and on of therapy…I’m 73 and therapists I saw when in my teens and even thirties had a lot of trouble dealing with a patient with such an abusive mother. I did heal from some of it and eventually found the therapist I mentioned above who diagnosed me with PTSD from my childhood much worsened by abusive relationships I had experienced. I healed from some of it and learned to manage the rest. The therapeutic process was at very painful, but I struck it out and I’ve had a good life thank to his guidance. It’s not something you ever fully heal from, as the movies make it seem. At times I’ve been able to support other women and men from similar backgrounds…it’s still harder for men to get help when maternally abused especially when it includes sexual abuse. The myth around mothering which came about in the 19thC is very powerful.
I am so glad I found your channel. I wasn't raised in a cult BUT I did grow up in Central NY near where Mormonism was founded and I think a lot of the teachings are ENGRAINED in just life. I work overnights and have basically caught up on all of your content within basically 2 weeks lol. This channel has made me so happy that I wasn't "the only one." It's so weird that I wasn't technically in a cult but a lot of my seclusion was similar in nature. (very rural upbringing) You all are amazing and I am so happy to have found a community that I blend in with, unlike my family who I am still the black sheep of. Thank you thank you thank you for your channel and your guests!!!!!
Hi! Welcome to C2C! I’m so happy you find comfort here. Black sheep unite!! ❤️😁
This story is so freaking sad. Not only did Jess suffer abuse in the cult, she also suffered abuse at home, and I just can't imagine. I really wish her all the best.
Praying the salvation prayer time after time after time because you were told you weren't Saved is such the quintessential Evangelical experience from my youth too. I can remember crying in a ball in 5th grade, because I was too afraid to die, because what if I wasn't "really" Saved? And when I did go up for baptism more than decade after the first time being "Saved" the main reaction was, "we could always tell you weren't really a Christian."
Ugh!! Thats awful!
My stepmother said that to me. I know you walked an isle and got baptized but how do you know you are saved and going to heaven. She thinks that I am going to he'll cause I don't attend her church, I don't carry around a Bible. I don't act according to her a Christian.
But news flash. WHAT MORE CAN JESUS DO. HE DIED ON A CROSS FOR EVERYBODY. IF YOU ASK HIM INTO YOUR HEART AND GET SAVED AND BAPTIZED BUT MAINLY SAVED WHAT MORE. IT IS BY FAITH.
THANK GOD I GOT AWAY FROM HER TOXICITY. I FELT NO MATTER WHAT I DID OR DO I NEVER MEASURE UP. SHE NEVER REALY HELPED ME UNLESS SHE REALLY WANTD TO. I WAS EMOTIONALLY ABUSED, PHYSICALLY ABUSED BY HER. MY DAD WAS EVEN WORSE CAUSE HE SEXUALLY ABUSED ME. HE EVENTUALLY DIED SO DID MY BIOLOGICAL MOTHER. MY BIOLOGICAL MOTHER GOT REMARRIED AND SO I HAVE A STEPFATHER. BUT MY DAD AND STEPMOTHER DIVORCED SO ALL SHE WAS IS A GUARDIAN CAUSE I REALLY DID NOT KNOW MY BIOLOGICAL MOTHER.
@@SarahD-uy5pfI'm so sorry you went through it too!
I remember when duggars first started on TV i remember thinking that just something wasnt right. Im from AR and southern baptist and only a little over an hr south from this plantation she is talking about and 2 hrs from the Little Rock Training Center. When some of the details of fhe duggars/IBLP came out i was just shocked and mortified the more i have learned and so scary it is so close. Loving your channel shelise!! And so proud of how far you have come Jess!!❤
I listen to these bit by bit. I spent 20 years in a church that was very heavily influenced by Gothard. It's good to hear about other people's journeys but it's also painful and triggering. Thank you for what you're doing.
Take care ❤
It makes me wonder how much of IBLP is affecting evangelical Christianity in the UK now through books written by people brainwashed by it and visiting speakers. I know that No Greater Joy and Focus on the Family through books written by the Pearls and James Dobson have affected them. So many ex evangelicals in the UK who are now atheists, agnostics and liberal Christians.
@@lemsip207 I don’t think you can compare Focus on The Family to Michael Pearl’s To Train Up A Child book. Focus On the Family has a much more gracious, Christlike attitude and doesn’t promote child abuse of any kind.
@lynnnelson4519 It does promote child abuse, but not to the same extent.
@@lynnnelson4519 it's only a matter of degrees. FOTF promotes child abuse too. Ever read Dobson's book The Strong Willed Child?
Secular (Humanist) homeschool mom here!!! Just wanting to let you know that we do exist, and we do succeed. My kids are now 23yo (today actually) & 21yo, both lovely & amazing people, each in their own right. I really enjoy the adults they have grown in to, which I think was the mission the whole time.
Our generation will save the world sharing our stories and breaking the cycles.
1950s values saw women wearing pants, open neck blouses, silk stockings, bikinis 👙, they joined the workforce
I am a Conservative Christian, and I disagree so much with Bill Gothards teaching and the IBLP. I had wonderful Christian parents. My upbringing was nothing like so many talk about from Conservative Christian homes. It is sad to me that so many completely deconstruct from Christianity. If parents are too strict, it breeds rebellion.
The Bible carries tons of justification for this kind of activity...
No amount of "we cannot hope to know god's ways as mere humans" is going to track when you consider that, for the biblical account to be true, god planted the temptation in the first place- knowing his creation was too fallible to fully heed his instruction. And god is omnipotent so he knew they would mess up and still punished them instead of structuring the environment to their capabilities as people. Satan barely even did anything in the biblical account. Most of the agony and punishments were inflicted by Yahweh (who was literally a pagan war deity separated from his pantheon).The Mosaic laws say that there's basically nothing wrong with harming your slave to the max as long as they don't die on the 4th day. Entire bloodlines were sold into slavery based on the behavior of their parents. If a woman was r*ped, she often had to marry her assaultor. Women suspected of cheating would be given a liquid by the priest to drink that would "off" their fetuses and potentially make them barren. Because "all life matters at any phase, but apparently not if the parents sinned." The men faced nothing comparable. Yahweh instructed the Israelites to k*ll everyone in a given city and only take the virgin daughters of the population. For reference: virginity was based on whether the hymen was intact. These girls lost everything, watched their families be m*ordered around them, were pinned down by grown men, and fingered. And this kind of treatment would absolutely break their hymens, implying that many of them were s*sexually assaulted and m*rdered on Yahweh's orders or sold into s*xual slavery. Yahweh also instructed the Israelites to cut fetuses out of their mothers, which flies directly in the face of a god who supposedly wants life protected at all phases. A merciful god, who truly loves everyone, has no reason to torture so many people. And a truly merciful god wouldn't later turn around to say, "See? My own son was tortured and m*rdered by the state so it's all evensies! Ignore what I said earlier!!"
My heart is breaking for you - if I could reach through the screen and give you the love and comfort my own daughter and sons receive from me, I would do it in a heartbeat. You deserve a life of acceptance and all things wonderful and I hope that you have created that for yourself.
Her mother reminds me of the mother in Carrie (the Steven King book/movie).
I’m so sorry that her childhood was nonexistent. Nurturing our inner child is so paramount when working through this kind of abuse.
That's what makes Steven King's books so horrifying, his villains are rarely supernatural monsters, the scariest are just humans that are so well written and researched.
Saw the film at the time it first came out. I thought this was just an exaggeration or a weird cult such as the JWs or the Children of God. In the book, there were much cooler Christians in the same school who didn't live like that who listened to Christian music that was like secular music but looking back that copy cat music was so cringe. Even more so than the average covers band on the pub or some up and coming teenage band that have yet to learn their musical instruments properly. A lot of the top secular bands started off like that though. I think the Kaiser Chiefs were a Beatles tribute band and the Manic Street Preachers were effectively a Clash tribute band even though they wrote some of the songs they performed in pubs.
My mother was not as extreme. I found out in my 30s that my mom was a victim of child SA and has blamed herself all these years.
And growing up she wanted to keep me as "pure" as possible so even when I was a teenager and coming into my sexuality, I could never talk to her about feelings that I didn't understand. Sex was a dirty word, especially in the churches and schools she put us into.
I was made to be "obedient" early on with James Dobson, and Bill Gothard, and Bob Jones, Arlin and Bekah Horton, and the Pearls.
@@annasalmans5523 I’m glad for you that she wasn’t “AS extreme”, but feel for you regardless.
@@lemsip207 …a little tangent-esque, but okay…thnx for sharing.
My church followed this IBLP .. this lady is describing my childhood .. I was constantly ridiculed for the way I looked and accused of doing thing I never did.. and could never be a good enough Christian in the eyes of my church .. it was really hurtful trying to live up to their standards.
I’m so sorry to hear that ❤️
Exactly. Deborah, you have witchy hair. (Straight and slick and thick and wouldn’t be contained) Deborah, your skin is just too green! (I’m olive skinned like my dad instead of peaches and cream like my sisters) Deborah, your nose is so narrow and pointed! (Another feature of my dad’s. My sisters called me ski slope for my nose and banana boobs because my breasts are wide set and narrow) Deborah, you’re an ugly child! (Meaning I was having a bad attitude but knowing what I was hearing her to say.)
I grew up thinking I looked like the wicked witch in the Wizard of Oz. I didn’t know I was pretty until I was in my 50s and realized my beautiful daughters looked so much like me as a young woman. It broke my heart for young me.
So I grew up in the cult of my mother. It's amazing how much I relate to all this but my mother also was obsessed with me being sexual as a pre teen and lied to everyone about it
This needs a story with it. Wow. Sorry about that rotten behavior. 😢
It's projection. She probably was sexually abused and became hypersexual as a result. She now assumes everyone is the same way because if she accepts it was just her, she has to admit she was a victim. Narcissists see being a victim as a form of criticism, which they can't handle. It's very sick.
I feel like there is something going on here because this is a common thing religious families experience where their mothers become obsessed with the belief their daughters are sexually promiscuous no matter how unrealistic and horrible. Like are they projecting their own guilt onto their daughters? Doing it to justify their abuse? Just doing it for attention and sympathy from other parents in the cult?
I'm so sorry that your mom did that to you. Mine presented me as "perfect" and made me live up to it. Guilt and slapping featured prominently, but never where it would show. May we both work through our shit fabulously.
@zippymacadoo6336 "May we both work through our shit fabulously" is excellent and I plan on using it for the rest of my life, thanks!
This conversation helped me clear out some childhood trauma. Different situations but the “people pleasing“ persists. Thank you!
Jess, Christian here, you were never the problem, your parents and Iblp were the problem. (That shit was fucked up)
As a Christian woman mother and grandmother I’m sitting here speechless I have no words this story is absolutely heartbreaking and disturbing this is NOT what being a Christian is about God is all about love we are supposed to love and cherish our children and have joy in our lives not this crap I’m so so sorry this happened to this lady Gothard needs to go to prison and so do all the adults that treated these precious children crap I am crying listening to this story thank you for sharing your story sending much love ❤🙏🏼♥️
You are using the "no true scotsman" logical fallacy. These people ARE Christians. This is a result of reading the Bible and taking (certain parts) literally. All Christian sects are harmful to different sets of people. Especially since the Bible contradicts itself many times over. It is not a safe book to base one's morality on. The time for fairy tale religions is over. We know better now. The truth is that there is no proof Jesus even existed. The Romans pushed the religion to get slaves to accept being owned in this life with promises of better times once they died.
THANK YOU MA'AM. I keep screaming at the screen "none of this is Christianity!!!"
Evangelical and fundamentalist Christians believe girls exist to give birth from birth. They only value you for your chastity and ability to give birth. The minute your mensus starts as far as they are concerned your an adult whether 5 years or 12 year old women. You arent a child ever if your female. If you cant give birth then your of no literal value to the church as a whole. You arent a human but an appliance that cooks, cleans, and gives birth.
SAME!!! Jesus Himself taught that the last will be the first and the first will be last!! That the highest in God's kingdom is the lowest servant!!! This patriarchal submission hierarchy is completely against God's will.
Trying to say these people are "not real Christians" isn't helping. These cults thrive IN CHRISTIANITY whether that makes you uncomfortable or not. Your community needs to start holding these people accountable and speaking out against them. Too many Christians just look the other way because they are afraid to admit the abuse that happens in ther communities. All you are doing is enabling them to thrive right under your noses.
i’ve been addicted to your channel and hearing these stories. you talk so much about compassion, and your work inspires me to expand my empathy and understanding while teaching me tools to avoid high control groups ! thank you shelise!
Hi Sidney! That’s so great to hear! Thanks so much for sharing that 🥰🙏
My mom wasn't part of a cult but this childhood was spot on to mine.
Bill Gothard is a monster
I hope you have her on again to go more in detail. She was great. Sending healing vibes!
I just don’t understand how the abuse of these children went unnoticed by authorities 😡
Because the authorities are in on it in alot of places and are guilty as charged.
@@miscalotastuff733yes, either by endorsing it as extremists themselves, or because of payoffs.
I find it really compelling that most of these controlling groups don't do so well past 1 generation--so many kids raised in it leave.
This story is so very familiar. I just turned fifty and am still dealing with the trauma of abusive cult and an abusive mother as well as sexual abuse. I encourage you to keep processing and take care of your health. I wish I had been your age when I started dealing with these issues. I think my health would be so much better. There is hope. There is a great resource for women with Narcissistic mothers called "Will I Ever Be Good Enough? Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers
Book by Karyl McBride. This was a huge leap forward in my personal healing. You are not alone. Keep moving forward!
Dealing with it head on is the only way to put it to bed. I am the daughter of a narcissist mother.
Jess, you did the right thing by cutting off your mother and family of origin. I know how tough it can be. I didn't cut my abusive mother off until I was in my 50's when a psychologist told me that "no one deserved to by verbally abused like that." Your mother sounds a lot like mine only I was raised in the Mormon church. It has taken years of therapy and work on deprograming the crap that she repeatedly told me and I know how hard that work can be, but keep it up it is worth it. You should be proud of your self for braking the cycle of abuse. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for sharing ❤️
Thank you! It's good to hear someone else talk about their parents being controlling and using this as a handbook for further control, but it sucks, glad she's free!
Thank you for bringing us another heartbreaking, authentic, honest conversation. It is horrifying what goes on in these groups and it's so important to bring it out into the light. I'm so glad she was able to break away and set boundaries with her mother.
If a man can be "stumbled" merely at the sight of painted toenails, he's of a weak constitution. That's a him problem, not a woman's.
I know it's not the girls problem if a guy thinks she's hot
What if she were naked is it her fault?
@@andreathompson-bg4hl no.
I guess it would depend on the circumstances of her nudity.
@@andreathompson-bg4hlNo. Everyone is capable of controlling their own urges.
My brother mentioned that his church was doing a class based on this teaching and my mother was HORRIFIED. I saw it in action once and nearly went off on him myself. I'm pretty sure they've given up on it now but I might have to talk to him about it because this is truly the worst way to treat a child.
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. As hard it was for me during and after that experience, it was and is 10x harder for girls and women.
I admire and look up to you both. Both of your decisions to leave and become activists shows an immense amount of strength and wisdom.
Anyone and everyone who is or was a victim of this place needs to sit down with a deputy DA and file suit
My grandmother was Baptist and a lot of my life was similar. My grandmother was more obsessed with perfection, selfishness and being a social butterfly. Of course she thought that she was absolutely perfect and beyond reproach and loved going on and on about how "selfish" I was because I wasn't able to emulate her "perfection".
I have been enjoying your channel so much, opening up much reflection of my life, I was born in 1950’s , grew up 60’s, 70’s. Even though I did not grow up in an extreme “ cult”, grew up in the church, most young people my age, rejected the church, parents norms, politics, I was a Hippie. Eventually most of us did become more” normal” , not rejecting all of societal value( materialism) and tried to live our lives with better values and truth than our parents.
You and your guests are amazing people, for trying to live your authentic self! ❤
Jess, my heart hurts for you because of all that you were put through. I am so proud for you because you are a good mom, smart, beautiful and well-spoken woman. I hope that you can find support where you are. I'm in Texas, come here and we will be your family. (((hugs)))
🖤🖤🖤
I wish children in the system were better protected against abusive foster/adoptive parents. Spanking a 6 month old breaks my heart.
I was raised in a strict Southern Baptist family by my grandmother, though it was nowhere near as strict as this. I wasn't allowed to talk to boys or pick my own clothes. My grandmother snooped through my stuff while I was in school so much that when I started writing short stories, they went everywhere with me. I knew from experience that if she read them she'd criticize me and pick at me. I never went fully no contact with her, though I probably should have. I probably would've been better off if I had. Now I have a daughter. She's 13 now. I don't raise her the way I was raised. I don't make her go to church, though if she wants to go, I'll take her. I don't pick her clothes and haven't since about first grade. She loves to draw and she's getting pretty good. I wouldn't dream of telling her that he art is trash, even if it was bad, which it isn't. Also, my grandmother didn't want me doing after school activities because she didn't want to have to come get me. I encourage my kid to do any after school things. I'll pick her up and I attend every concert (She's in the band) I'm just glad I'm able to do better by her than my family did by me.
Listening to this floods my brain with my own childhood memories. My mom didn't let me sleep more than 4 hours a night from the ages 13-18. She would send me to bed, then wake me up to pray and read the Bible for hours. My dad did not tolerate cursing, but we also couldn't say a replacement word. I used to say Oh fudge! Or oh Watermelons! And I would get lectures about my crass language for that. My parents were religiously strict but also very loving. But I was raised to always chase after God with a servant's heart and to be thankful for the challenges thrown my way. To this day, I struggle with people pleasing to a fault and hiding my emotions in all situations. I'm 40 now and just starting to poke at that iceberg with the help of my therapist. I cannot express the amount of confusion I have when it comes to these memories. Thank you for sharing. Your story is so important.
The 1950s housewives had one of the worst mental health crisis we've ever seen, you had all these women who during WW2, actually got some empowerment and freedom, then forced back into the home. Its not a coincidence that feminism started as soon as their daughters were adults. Plus it was primarily white, middle class women, working class women have always worked, POC women have usually always worked. You want to be a housewife and mother I hope you're living your best life. But it has to be your free choice
Hi, I'm from New Zealand and just discovered your channel. What I want to say you are both amazing woman and should be so proud of yourselves. I come from childhood trauma and can relate to some of what you talk about. My mother is a jehova witness and I am no contact with her or my brothers and sister. It's to much disfunction for me. I had severe post natal depression after my first child and it is horrific for any woman to go through. I am the black sheep of my family and I now wear it as a badge of honor. My family dysfunction ends with me.
Hi Elizabeth, thank you for sharing ❤️ welcome to C2C. I love that you are breaking the cycle
I love this woman. Just her personality shining through after all that.
I have really enjoyed your channel because the interviews have helped me see some of the traumatic situations I was came from… seeing what parts of certain religious systems get sticky and promote which pathological behaviors have helped me look at my own life with a lot more compassion….
This interview made me cry because I know a LOT of people that have been sent to camps like this and/or foster care.
It just reaffirms the idea that our job as humanity is to build a more harmonious society where there’s less needless suffering.
Thank you.
I am 72. When I was in college several cult members tried to persuade me to join. One was a Scientologist with whom I argued so much he finally gave up. The other was a member of the burgeoning group…forgot the name…which would hand out flowers and pretend to be a legitimate Eastern religion. I just laughed at them. I was lucky as I was raised on philosophers who questioned everything and found them ridiculous. Had I known what happens once they pull you in I would have been even more annoying to them. I feel such sorrow and compassion for people seduced (and I think that’s a good word…the tactics remind me of pedophiles) or born into these groups. I had a dear friend of African descent, who was rapid cycling bipolar (very hard to treat), whose family had to hire someone to get her out of a cult in NY. The sexual abuse she suffered was horrific. The cult pulled her in when she was in an episode and then she was their prisoner. Now that I’ve watched this episode I can understand why she was singled out for abuse by the monster who ran that cult. She told me had said he singled he out because her race made her sexually special. Shudder.
Hello, Ms Sharon. My parents were not philosophers at all, but I was raised the same way. My friends and younger family would intentionally drive these types nuts for entertainment hahaha! Verbal sparring was cheap, amusing and keeps us sharp. Glad there are others!
@@kathleenchaffin2591 yes it is…a wonderful game!
"handing out flowers claiming to be Eastern"
I haven't thought about the Hari Krishna folks in decades, thanks for the giggle 😅
@@nobody8328 so funny the second I read your response the name came back. They weren’t so sweetness and light within the cult, of course. At the time I thought they were just silly…until much later when people started leaving/escaping.
@@sharonkaczorowski8690 they used to serve free lunches on my campus. Not sure how I’d have survived with out them. 😂 Nice kids tho.
I hate that term jezebel.....some of these groups have fashioned an entire " Jezebel spirit " , complete with all these traits that supposedly describe a woman with this supposed spirit (that is mentioned nowhere in the Bible )and then weopanize the term against any woman whom they dont see as submissive enough. I had a guy tell me 99 % of women have this spirit. And if you argue ...well, guess what....you have the jezebel spirit yourself.
I also know what its like to need emotional help and get accused of having a demon. My chronic depression garnered me a hugely traumatic evening with 2 adults trying to exorcise a demon from me
Wasn’t Jezebel simply the foreign wife of an Israelite king? I *think* in the OT a foreign wife was a no-no. I remember that Jezebel gave the king advice, which he heeded. Bigger no-no. I need to revisit the Jezebel story.
I am very sorry that you were subjected to exorcism !
My ex husband called me a Jezebel and told me that I wasn’t a Christian when I divorced him. I told him that if he was a Christian, I didn’t want to be one. I still consider myself to be a follower of Jesus. But I don’t go to church anymore. Organized religion scares the shit out of me. My relationship with Jesus is vertical, not horizontal!!!
Really relate to aspects of this especially the over correction. You’re doing ok don’t be hard on yourself. We can be so hard on yourself as a victim of abuse. Really wish Jess all the healing in the world.
Jess, you are doing an amazing job of breaking the patterns of your youth. Keep growing and your kiddo will notice the positive changes
I could listen to a part 2 or 3 with her. I love hearing of how she is realizing the oppresion she endured and there is/was another way to live and be raised. Thanks to both you ladies for sharing❤
Shelise, thank you for having Jess onto share her experience growing up in the IBLP. 💗 I just want to give her a big hug and I am so happy that she has the strength and courage to share her story with all of us. 💞
❤️❤️❤️
I slept after watching this and was exhausted....this will happen to thpse of us with CPTSD. Drink water and make time for sleep every night, dress pretty, dance wherever you are standing to move yur body and watch comedy to balance it out. Then watch all the videos. Journal your own story.
I wonder how many children have died or had permnant injuries from this.
I feel so bad for her upbringing. I also came from that same background but I didn’t have as of an extreme experience, but definitely saw people that did, and saw the devastating effects that it could have on a person and even experienced a lot of those on my own that over, correcting and struggling with guilt growing up I’m so happy that you made it out of it OK!
Another example of amazing strength and Resiliency! The ability to recognize what needs to change, and to learn new parenting and living skills. Really awesome and inspiring.
Absolutely!
Thank you for telling your story. I am so sorry you went through all of that. I hope you know that that is not the Christianity that it is for other's and that it really was an extremely toxic cult that disguised it's self as the Christian faith. I hope you are able to finally heal and find true joy and happiness in this life.❤
I want thank Jess for sharing. It was really painful when she shared that she never learned to make friends as a child and therefore making them in your 30s is near impossible. I'm in my 30s and I always keep myself open to new friendships, even though I have my road dogs. Jess the more you heal, the more you will attract friends to help you heal. XOXO a friend in the comments!
I just keep repeating “that poor baby” during the whole video 😢😢😢
Im glad her mom didn't have more kids. Not all moms are maternal. So sad for her.
The programme reminds me of the films The Magadalene Laundries and Philomena, even though they were set in Ireland and were run by Catholic nuns. Plus the novels Broken Flowers and Midnight Flight by Virginia Andrews set in the desert in the USA.
The 'leaders' assigned to the cabins are mentors or buddies still in the programme but have been in it longer and have proved themselves as 'succeeding' with it. It's why they are not allowed to 'graduate' from it for years.
I can so relate when you say that you were desperate to please people yet also outspoken. I could not count the number of times I was accused of trying to “power over” my mother, whom I desperately wanted to please and have love me, when I would try to explain to her how I felt and why. And the times I was slapped across the face for speaking up against basic injustice. It’s amazing I never had a black eye. My mom sure knew where it was safe to hit.
My heart broke for her oh my god. Jess you seem like an amazing, strong woman. You went through so much, and overcame so much.
in most states a kid can get a work permit at 15 or 16 years old though they are limited in the amount of hours they can work
In my state, kids can start working at 14 with limitations
She is still so traumatized by het experiences. I can tell by how readily she can remember all these traumatizing experiences. I hope she can find a therapist to help her
You're amazing for all you did and made it through. Breaking our of family cycles and making sure you're doing right by your daughter. I'm trying to do the same. It's not an easy thing to do. Just love her first and foremost and you will try your best. Parenting is hard
My Warmest thoughts and Love and hugs go out to Jess ❤️❤️❤️❤️ I’m speachless right now!!!
She shared such a strong and very important message to us in the World outside!!! Thank you so much!
I almost had to stop this video because the abuse Jess had to go through because of an IBLP parent made me sick. I was furious! Why would any adoption agency give this lunatic a child? Awful! Well, we all know Mormonism is a cult and unhealthy but at least you, Shelise, had a good mom. Can you imagine going through all that Mormon stuff AND having an abusive mother and indifferent father??
Because she’s a Christian and that’s where they stop listening or caring.
You girls need to make it happen. Someone out there knows more about this man. Do a Me too" get people talking.!!!! I am 71 but at your age and even now I fight against unjust things.
I am sorry all of you had to go through that BS.😢
I know theres ppl that think menial labor is okay, even a little bit, but has anyone asked is it worth the cost of a childhood?
As someone who grew up homeschooled by parents, one of which was a university professor and just hated the public schooling system, It's scary to imagine it being used by cults to isolate kids. It makes perfect sense though. I thoroughly enjoyed being homeschooled, got accepted at an art university, and now live outside of the USA painting beautiful places around Europe! Homeschooling is fantastic for artistic kids and those who need more space for freedom of expression. It also allows kids to learn at their own pace on subjects that are tricky for them. However, I grew up in a city with plenty of friends and parents who were dedicated to me and my sisters education. Most people don't have the time or willpower to teach their own children every day and some use it to cover abuse, so I believe there should be some type of system to check in and make sure the kids are healthy and at a decent education level. I'm not sure how the system would go about that though...
Thank you for sharing that!
While some of what is shown here is plain and simple criminal behavior, most of what these people get wrong is the fact that not committing sins is not a useful plan for anyone's life. Doing things, making mistakes, correcting your mistakes, trying things, being mischievous at times, are all parts of a good life that helps with the development of the whole community. Not doing what an old book tells you not to do is as useless as polishing turds.
I am currently working on a research project about IBLP so thank you for releasing content about it! I'm definitely using your channel as a source.
I don’t think cult members should be allowed to adopt children. This is insane treatment
Her life is similar to mine and it tears me up because our lives have been so much harder than they needed to be. My BFF passed two years ago, unexpected. I was ghosted by my other one. I’m fifty, on disability, and can relate to it being really hard to make friends. I did have a chosen family but they are now gone. You say you wish you were kidnapped-I really thought I was adopted till I was like 17 and had to get a copy of my birth certificate. I also wanted to mention to you how integral it is to get therapy/meds if needed. I don’t know where you live but we have agencies where they base the amount you pay on your ability to pay. Do some sleuthing, maybe where you live has something similar. (Also, you can apply for Medicaid at your local social services center. ❤
Shelise, your so so close to 65, 000 subscribers, you go girl. Your voice is so pleasant and your content is absolutely brilliant. You and John Dehlin at Mormon Stories Podcast are the main people I listen to.
Hi Deborah! Great middle name 😉 thank you so much! I really appreciate your kind words❤️ thanks for watching!
The part about not being able to have children and that being your worth really hit home with me. it is something I've struggled with a lot lately. I'm still afraid my husband will leave to have children with someone who's actually capable of it, even though he has given me no reason to doubt him. I still feel like a bad wife and it's not something I can fix, no matter how hard I try. I just hope one of these bad pregnancies will kill me so I can join my children on the other side.
It doesn't make you a bad wife 💕 Please try to be easier on yourself dear, and if I may gently suggest it, I would recommend getting into therapy to discuss why you feel like you are a failure and desire to die because of your inability to conceive/carry to term, because that is not healthy, and you deserve to love yourself. Genuinely, you deserve to love yourself for who you are. Your purpose in life is more than a vessel for a baby, and you can still be a mother without birthing a child if that is something that you desire and feel strongly like your purpose is to be a mother. There are many children in foster care being abused or placed in group homes because there aren't enough kind and loving families to take them in and offer them safety and protection and love. I urge you to please seek help for your negative thoughts of yourself, because you are worthy of life and love and happiness even if you cannot carry a child in your womb 💕 sending you love from a random stranger on the internet!
I had a partial hysterectomy about 9 years ago. Didn't have kids prior. It's really sad when YOU truly can't have bio babies and others just don't get it. YET I want women to have the choice. HELL YEAH!!!
I don’t know if you follow your replies, but you are not alone in this… so many others are out there working through this.
I hope that you’re able to communicate with your spouse- maybe even with a therapist- about the sadness.
I encourage you to look for a licensed secular counselor and to talk to your obgyn… because there isn’t blame in not succeeding.
We don’t talk about how many women have these issues often so many people aren’t even aware.
Get accurate info from your doctors and trust them.
In the meantime, having experienced this situation, it plays out differently in every situation, and taking a break so your body and mind can recover has definitely helped me and a lot of the people I know who have lost pregnancies.
Don’t rush heaven because you are here to do good things now.
You are not a bad wife. Do check with a good fertility specialist if you can. I had seven pregnancies and two living children. But do take care of yourself. The rest will follow.
Do something good for your husband and yourself. Go to therapy.
Oh my GOSH! Second hand cussing!?! So terrible! Yeah, I was giving testimony about something and I used a quote from the Lone Ranger and said "Gosh durnit, Chester!" And got into so much trouble and I was baffled. There i was, pouring out my heart about a struggle and getting in trouble for something so innocuous. And the whole modesty dressing even crept into my wedding at age 35 because I wore a dress where my cleavage showed and my sister was like, "you should be wearing something under that." I still just think back and go, "I felt pretty until she said that and now I'm so annoyed."
I wasnt allowed to speak in my own house growing up, unless i was spoken to.
I found this interview fascinating. Thank you for giving these people a platform to share their story. I really admire your interviewing skills. 👍👍
Glad you enjoyed it!
It wasn’t until I was in my thirties that I realized that most people have songs that they love from their childhood that they love to listen to and feel nostalgic about. All the songs I listened to as a kid were cringy contemporary Christian songs and worship music that I can’t listen to anymore because there is so much trauma from growing up in the church
I am so impressed with your guests and the way they tell their horrific stories!
And your interview style... its absolute perfection.
I kept seeing your videos recommended and kept ignoring, just didnt feel in the right headspace to learn about cults...
....this is totally not what i thought your channel would be like and im grateful. It has kept me riveted and needing to hear more.
I really feel for you Jess. I didn't go up in IBLP but I did have a very confusing, difficult childhood where I was constantly judged and punished for things outside of my control such as how I look. As a result, so much of what you said about the comments you received as a child really hit me like blows to the gut because I completely remember the chaos that arose inside of me when I was being "punished" for something I couldn't control - I even cut off all of my hair trying to make myself less than. It never stopped the abuse. Also the difficult decision of having to go no contact with your mother. I have had to do the same thing which has been something that my extended family has not agreed with and causes a constant wave of judgement. It is always - how can you not talk to your mother, she brought you into this world. No one has ever asked, I wonder why you can't talk to your mum. What happened? It's always a judgement that [I] must be at fault and how cruel am I to not allow myself to continue to be abused by a woman who just chooses when to love me and when to dump me at her own discretion. But hearing your story and seeing that you have also had to make similar decisions in your life to my own makes me feel less alone and also gives me a little confidence that I know I made the right decisions for myself (finally). Thank you so much for sharing your story!
Thank you for sharing and offering your support❤️ I hope you’re doing better now. And it sounds like you’re putting yourself first which is beautiful.
Me too, I don't talk to my mother either.
Thank you Shelise and Jess for this interview 😊
I thought I had a crazy teenage life with my drug use and abusive boyfriend, but this Christian conservative stuff beats it by a mile.
I feel bad, I was raised Mormon (still am to an extent) and my parents weren’t really strict on it, in fact whenever I’d stay home sick from school my mom would rent rated-r horror movies. My dad who recently passed introduced me to Hellraiser, and he was a proud Saint that served a 2 year mission in Germany. I don’t blame these victims for what happened to them, I don’t blame them for leaving their cults and pray to whoever is out there that those recovering from IBLP and abusive religious families including ones in Mormonism will all continue to heal and find your own path.
Very sad but very riveting and eye opening interview. My question is (and maybe I missed it) but no mention of her sister and whether there is a relationship with her?
Thank you, Jess for being so open and vulnerable in sharing your experiences with us! It makes me realize how resilient we truly are as human beings! We can go through these difficult times and at least do better than what we had. For our children and our own mental health. We can set boundaries and it's for the best for us to stay away from abusive people and systems.
Congratulations, Jess, on the no-contact with your adopted mother. Not only did you have to deal with the cult context, but also what I perceive to be a malignant narcissist. You have no idea of the peace and harmony that will flow into your life now. You will be able to breathe and express your fun self with an open heart. Do you, gorgeous! Big hugs to you and daughter xxx