Just re-watched Fallen Angels last night, and it got me in a wide angle sort of mindset, so this video arrives at the perfect time. Also been cool to see your keep refining your style! Always looking forward to the next video.
Your channel is for sure the most underrated filmmaking channel out there, fantastic video/soundtrack as per usual. Also, where is that awesome abandoned mansion located? Truly a magical environment!
I think so too, a bit difficult to find, but location scouting is one of the most exciting aspects of filmmaking. It’s an abandoned villa. It was deconstructed because it was built illegally. I live in China, I assume since land is public and not private here the property infringed on certain laws
Great vid as always, I think wide angles capture the raw beauty of a shot and not just a small glimpse of a perfectly arranged movie set. Maybe thats why people are scared of leaning into these focal lengths
Definitely has a naturalistic feel, I think they also excel with handheld not as popular, though lanthimos uses stabilized ultra wides to good effect as well on set. I do think they will get more popular especially due to the popularity of Poor Things
@@cleverghostchili me too - I think they can be used well in a horror chase scene, or for gopro action stuff but other than that, I personally wouldn't use them - Although I am sure there are some wonderful creative uses for them.
That final location is nuuuuttttyyyyyy to just be able to wander into like that. I've been seeing a LOT of wide close ups from many of my favorite cinematographers lately. My Photo brain can never get used to the wide angle -- but in video it just works for some reason.
With the perspective distortion I think it can work for high fashion. Allows the subject to look slimmer, longer legs, Chili posted some pictures and I think it is a very interesting look
Amazing video and images as always! Love your work! What camera did you use to shoot the first shot of the girl running, as well as the shots from 2:12 close up of face to :23 of the board game? IS this Blackmagic 6K FF? These shots in particular look really organic and Alexa LF quality. Wow! I'm impressed. Thanks!
Hey I mentioned this in the description, yes the scenes with blue jacket are shot with bmcc6kff. I also think you can get images surprisingly reminiscent of Arri with the right grade (I always grade Arri colorspace). Yellow jacket is sigma FP
I've been thinking about this for almost a year now, I bought the 14mm GM over a year ago (which has now been sold since the Viltrox came out for Sony) simply because I thought the very rare video footage with it looked incredible! I think after watching this video and viewing my own and other ultra wide footage recently I've come up with a theory for why these ultrawides are going to be making a strong come back: I think with the major improvement in digital video cameras' dynamic range in recently, more people are realizing that proper exposure, highlight control and color grading are what ultimately makes a "cinematic" image, and having that super thin DoF is no longer the focus. I think that as a result of digital cameras a decade ago just not having the dynamic range needed resulted in people using DoF as a crutch to appear "cinematic" and to separate themselves from the "amateurs." Watching Terrance Malick's films really shows that ultrawides in cinema aren't a new idea, they're just coming back into style bc we don't need to use DoF as a crutch anymore!
I absolutely love your videos, I like the way you grade. If I could give one tip that would be to reduce the amount you life the shadows since it's starting to border on the line of the old Fake HDR that happened when you lifted the shadows too much in RAW photo editing.
Thank you so much for the advice. I’m perpetually at war with how much contrast, for some of these scenes I found lifted shadows to give me some more flexibility in the contrast but I will dial it in for the future
@@cleverghostchili I use magic lantern raw which is very similar to sigma fp dng. My CAnon 700D has about 3 stops over midgray which matches the fp exatcly at ISO100. What i've found was that exposing for midgray while keeping highlights at bay is the best way. So in post all you have to do is lift the exposure slider until the the brightest stop reaches it's correct IRE value and the last stop reaches it's lowest correct value. Basically find the midgray in your scene IRL and match it to your camera's midgray. If the highlights blow out too much then use the old ETTR technique. Only play with the shadow slider when necessary, otherwise you're playing too much with the tonal values. Also keep in mind rec.709 has very limited dynamic range so fitting linear code values inside it isn't possible without either compressing highlights or shadows by several stops. If you go on my channel you'll see a video i just shot today to demonstrate the results this same technique. I'll keep it up for 24hours
@@cleverghostchili I'm not sure if my comment got deleted by youtube or what but I'll try again. I use this technique where I expose for the midgray in the scene and match it to my camera. If the highlights blow out too much i'll underexpose but only 3 stops max. I'll then lift them in post using the exposure slider, never the shadows. The shadow slider is for those special occasions where rec.709 gamma cannot handle the dynamic range (too much contrast). Messing with the shadow/highlight slider will mess with tonal values so better to leave it. When using the exposure slider, all 4096 values will stay relatively the same. Keep in mind that rec.709 has very limited dynamic range and trying to fit linear raw values into it without compressing highlights and shadows is difficult, but it's quite doable. Better to compress highlights tho it's less obvious
@@shueibdahir I got your messages - yeah the base contrast on the FP is very high like a reverse S contrast curve which is why I often lift the shadows and crush the midtones, creating a more pleasant shadow roll off, I do the same compressing highlights as well. I actually generally like to keep blacks black but sometimes I make decisions for RUclips compression. I’m also trying new things all the time
Otus the best but Milvus can fill out some focal lengths, however some of the other lenses are very close to Otus, will need more testing to confirm. Great budget alternative
I see you went EF over Nikon mount with the apeture ring. Was it to match your Otus's? Would you swap them for Nikon with the aperture rings if you could? I might pickup the 18mm milvus, just debating on which mount to get. I've got 28 and 55 EF Otus like you. Need something wider to compliment.
Yes to match Otus, the Nikon is reversed focus direction and larger which may be cumbersome but I think EF is still more flexible as the larger flange allows more adaptability, has more space for rear adapter nd potential too. Cameras have more connections for aperture control, I say this even with potential Nikon mount Reds. Super long term like 10 years not sure
Love the exploration of story telling with ultra wides, and especially the close ups... to me, the thing I really notice with ultra wide close ups is how they render movement differently😂. After all, movement is literally and simply what distinguishes the living from the inanimate... the unfamiliar view of wide angle movement is mesmerising to me when done right. BTW, just bought the BMCC 6k on the 40% sale... last one I could find today on a UK Google search... so I'm excited to start playing with my Laowa 12mm f2.8. I bought it for close up shots specifically. Probably not as nice a rendering as Zeiss, but As you say I think the story telling is more important...
I love my bmcc6kff the more I use it. The visuals require significantly more work but the ceiling is high. I think you will love the combination with laowa12, the softer rendering should pair nicely, seen a lot of arri footy with that combination
@@cleverghostchili Thanks, I'm excited... camera arrives Tuesday! BTW do you use an adapter for EF lenses? Just curious which one you use... I've ordered the MC21 as I have Sigma Art zooms so figured it will be most compatible.
I’ve only just bought the 28 and 55 otus lenses and now I need this 😢 Looks excellent apart from the issues, it’s a shame they didn’t make a wider Otus at this focal length
I’ve made the best out of most of the issues, it’s mostly the color and softer image, about 200k colder and slightly less contrast, but still very good. It’s actually very useful since the Otus has abysmal close focusing distance, I always say to spend wisely, but I actually do use this lens a bit as it opens up some creative shots, not a necessity though
Love your videos! I have an otus 55mm for my RED. I have been looking for a wide and this seems to be the widest Zeiss. Have you tried it on a crop sensor or super35?
Yes, I have tried it super35 mode, depending on the crop factor it will remove most of the ultrawide look on super35 and will just look like a very wide lens with less of the vignetting, distortion and soft corners. Basically you lose a lot of the ultrawide quirkiness, which is good or bad depending on what you desire, but with Red you might have a wider sensor so you might still see some of the character on the outer edges
@@cleverghostchili awesome thanks for the info! Just trying to decide if I go this route or with the laowa 12mm to make sure it’s wide. Just hard to give up the Zeiss look 😅
Hi I am considering Zeiss lenses and thank god I stumbled on your channel. I have a question.. would you recommend Zeiss milvus set or a Otus 55 28 combo for film making.. I shoot on a red dragon system.. dscm2.. I like both but milvus set is cheaper and has more focal lengths.. any input is appreciated
I have a review coming out of another milvus lens. The biggest difference between otus and milvus is the Otus has slightly more dreamier rendering and the Milvus sharper, slightly more boring. The color on the Otus are also better. However, if you are on a budget, definitely can recommend the Milvus, you can also match together quite well. I'd say the Otus 55 is incredible, i have an early review of it, the Milvus 50 is no slouch either,
@@giordanobruno7943 the milvus 25 is good but less impressive than the 35. It depends on what focal length you prefer, on s35 dsmc2 I think 28 is a super nice focal length, personal favorite. But it depends on if you can find a good deal. Obviously Otus is better, I would definitely buy one because there are not really any better lenses for the price. Can check Vimeo for many examples of red Gemini and Otus
@@giordanobruno7943 review out tomorrow of the milvus. Otus better for filmmaking. If you need other focal lengths can fill it out with Milvus. Otus color and rendering better for video. Faces just pop more
To stay consistent with the Otus lenses. As for why I chose ef for Otus, I believe it came down to mount adaptability, availability, and the unattractive reversed focus direction for Nikon lenses. I think most cameras support electronic communication with lenses these days and the future, I think it will be a fine investment
Laowa 12mm is great, rectilinear and wide. Lots of real estate people use it, also surprisingly mini LF users. Can recommend that one or the Zeiss milvus. I also made a video with dzo ultrawide recently you can check that out, would probably be a closer match with Leica too
An abandoned villa. It was deconstructed because it was built illegally. I live in China, I assume since land is public and not private here the property infringed on certain laws
From one side by side comparison I saw it appeared that the contrast was higher on the 18, but I’m content with the 15. Surprisingly the 15mm used copies were cheaper and more available in my country
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
i always love how you talk about creative use of the equipment rather than focusing on specifications
Specs aren’t my forte, there is enough content on specs, not enough on the subjective value of an image
@@cleverghostchili for sure, your unique perspective is very valuable
5:17 hey there's that word again! ;) Another great video, especially during the conclusion - incredible location.
What a choice of word! Location is always a top 3 priority for this channel
Just re-watched Fallen Angels last night, and it got me in a wide angle sort of mindset, so this video arrives at the perfect time. Also been cool to see your keep refining your style! Always looking forward to the next video.
Me too, RUclips is about the journey, not the destination
Your channel is for sure the most underrated filmmaking channel out there, fantastic video/soundtrack as per usual. Also, where is that awesome abandoned mansion located? Truly a magical environment!
I think so too, a bit difficult to find, but location scouting is one of the most exciting aspects of filmmaking. It’s an abandoned villa. It was deconstructed because it was built illegally. I live in China, I assume since land is public and not private here the property infringed on certain laws
@@cleverghostchili I see, that makes sense, sucks for them, but great job finding it and again beautiful work as always!
Great vid as always, I think wide angles capture the raw beauty of a shot and not just a small glimpse of a perfectly arranged movie set. Maybe thats why people are scared of leaning into these focal lengths
Definitely has a naturalistic feel, I think they also excel with handheld not as popular, though lanthimos uses stabilized ultra wides to good effect as well on set. I do think they will get more popular especially due to the popularity of Poor Things
Ugh, so nice. Would love to get my hands on some Milvus and Otus lenses. Well done!
Zeiss makes fantastic lenses. It’s so much more than a sharp lens it’s a shame most people think they are similar to sigma glass
@@cleverghostchili For sure. I’ve been very happy with my Contax Zeiss, but curious to explore something more modern.
BEAUTIFULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL omg your videos just keep getting better and better
I thought I would plateau 5 videos ago, I also don’t know where my videos are headed
Gorgeous Gorgeous cinematography!!!!
love how you talk about creative use of the equipment
Beautiful images and awesome video as always dude!
Love received
This is amazing - Thank you for sharing this - I love ultra-wide lenses when they are more rectolinear - This was really great.
Fisheyes are fascinating but I’m still not adventurous enough yet
@@cleverghostchili me too - I think they can be used well in a horror chase scene, or for gopro action stuff but other than that, I personally wouldn't use them - Although I am sure there are some wonderful creative uses for them.
That final location is nuuuuttttyyyyyy to just be able to wander into like that. I've been seeing a LOT of wide close ups from many of my favorite cinematographers lately. My Photo brain can never get used to the wide angle -- but in video it just works for some reason.
With the perspective distortion I think it can work for high fashion. Allows the subject to look slimmer, longer legs, Chili posted some pictures and I think it is a very interesting look
There is definitely a lot of energy in the 14-20mm range with people! @@cleverghostchili
Amazing video and images as always! Love your work! What camera did you use to shoot the first shot of the girl running, as well as the shots from 2:12 close up of face to :23 of the board game? IS this Blackmagic 6K FF? These shots in particular look really organic and Alexa LF quality. Wow! I'm impressed. Thanks!
Hey I mentioned this in the description, yes the scenes with blue jacket are shot with bmcc6kff. I also think you can get images surprisingly reminiscent of Arri with the right grade (I always grade Arri colorspace). Yellow jacket is sigma FP
the intro is so good
I've been thinking about this for almost a year now, I bought the 14mm GM over a year ago (which has now been sold since the Viltrox came out for Sony) simply because I thought the very rare video footage with it looked incredible! I think after watching this video and viewing my own and other ultra wide footage recently I've come up with a theory for why these ultrawides are going to be making a strong come back: I think with the major improvement in digital video cameras' dynamic range in recently, more people are realizing that proper exposure, highlight control and color grading are what ultimately makes a "cinematic" image, and having that super thin DoF is no longer the focus. I think that as a result of digital cameras a decade ago just not having the dynamic range needed resulted in people using DoF as a crutch to appear "cinematic" and to separate themselves from the "amateurs." Watching Terrance Malick's films really shows that ultrawides in cinema aren't a new idea, they're just coming back into style bc we don't need to use DoF as a crutch anymore!
Such an amazing piece,
I absolutely love your videos, I like the way you grade. If I could give one tip that would be to reduce the amount you life the shadows since it's starting to border on the line of the old Fake HDR that happened when you lifted the shadows too much in RAW photo editing.
Thank you so much for the advice. I’m perpetually at war with how much contrast, for some of these scenes I found lifted shadows to give me some more flexibility in the contrast but I will dial it in for the future
@@cleverghostchili I use magic lantern raw which is very similar to sigma fp dng. My CAnon 700D has about 3 stops over midgray which matches the fp exatcly at ISO100.
What i've found was that exposing for midgray while keeping highlights at bay is the best way.
So in post all you have to do is lift the exposure slider until the the brightest stop reaches it's correct IRE value and the last stop reaches it's lowest correct value. Basically find the midgray in your scene IRL and match it to your camera's midgray. If the highlights blow out too much then use the old ETTR technique.
Only play with the shadow slider when necessary, otherwise you're playing too much with the tonal values. Also keep in mind rec.709 has very limited dynamic range so fitting linear code values inside it isn't possible without either compressing highlights or shadows by several stops.
If you go on my channel you'll see a video i just shot today to demonstrate the results this same technique. I'll keep it up for 24hours
@@cleverghostchili I'm not sure if my comment got deleted by youtube or what but I'll try again. I use this technique where I expose for the midgray in the scene and match it to my camera. If the highlights blow out too much i'll underexpose but only 3 stops max. I'll then lift them in post using the exposure slider, never the shadows. The shadow slider is for those special occasions where rec.709 gamma cannot handle the dynamic range (too much contrast).
Messing with the shadow/highlight slider will mess with tonal values so better to leave it. When using the exposure slider, all 4096 values will stay relatively the same.
Keep in mind that rec.709 has very limited dynamic range and trying to fit linear raw values into it without compressing highlights and shadows is difficult, but it's quite doable. Better to compress highlights tho it's less obvious
@@cleverghostchili i've got a video on my channel demonstrating this. It's called dynamic range test.
@@shueibdahir I got your messages - yeah the base contrast on the FP is very high like a reverse S contrast curve which is why I often lift the shadows and crush the midtones, creating a more pleasant shadow roll off, I do the same compressing highlights as well. I actually generally like to keep blacks black but sometimes I make decisions for RUclips compression. I’m also trying new things all the time
beautiful.
Thanks for watching
"Stray children" 😂 - beautiful footage as usual. Now the question is, to milvus or to Otus
Otus the best but Milvus can fill out some focal lengths, however some of the other lenses are very close to Otus, will need more testing to confirm. Great budget alternative
Amazing job!
Someone thicken my wallet and I'll widen my perspective 😜
Aye, theres the rub. I miraculously got a copy for 600$
@@cleverghostchili lucky you 😁
I see you went EF over Nikon mount with the apeture ring. Was it to match your Otus's? Would you swap them for Nikon with the aperture rings if you could? I might pickup the 18mm milvus, just debating on which mount to get. I've got 28 and 55 EF Otus like you. Need something wider to compliment.
Yes to match Otus, the Nikon is reversed focus direction and larger which may be cumbersome but I think EF is still more flexible as the larger flange allows more adaptability, has more space for rear adapter nd potential too. Cameras have more connections for aperture control, I say this even with potential Nikon mount Reds. Super long term like 10 years not sure
im 30 seconds in but damn that intro is amazing
Hope the rest of the video delivered
Love the exploration of story telling with ultra wides, and especially the close ups... to me, the thing I really notice with ultra wide close ups is how they render movement differently😂. After all, movement is literally and simply what distinguishes the living from the inanimate... the unfamiliar view of wide angle movement is mesmerising to me when done right.
BTW, just bought the BMCC 6k on the 40% sale... last one I could find today on a UK Google search... so I'm excited to start playing with my Laowa 12mm f2.8. I bought it for close up shots specifically. Probably not as nice a rendering as Zeiss, but As you say I think the story telling is more important...
I love my bmcc6kff the more I use it. The visuals require significantly more work but the ceiling is high. I think you will love the combination with laowa12, the softer rendering should pair nicely, seen a lot of arri footy with that combination
@@cleverghostchili Thanks, I'm excited... camera arrives Tuesday! BTW do you use an adapter for EF lenses? Just curious which one you use... I've ordered the MC21 as I have Sigma Art zooms so figured it will be most compatible.
I’ve only just bought the 28 and 55 otus lenses and now I need this 😢 Looks excellent apart from the issues, it’s a shame they didn’t make a wider Otus at this focal length
I’ve made the best out of most of the issues, it’s mostly the color and softer image, about 200k colder and slightly less contrast, but still very good. It’s actually very useful since the Otus has abysmal close focusing distance, I always say to spend wisely, but I actually do use this lens a bit as it opens up some creative shots, not a necessity though
LETS GO!
Zeiss gang rise up
Love your videos! I have an otus 55mm for my RED. I have been looking for a wide and this seems to be the widest Zeiss. Have you tried it on a crop sensor or super35?
Yes, I have tried it super35 mode, depending on the crop factor it will remove most of the ultrawide look on super35 and will just look like a very wide lens with less of the vignetting, distortion and soft corners. Basically you lose a lot of the ultrawide quirkiness, which is good or bad depending on what you desire, but with Red you might have a wider sensor so you might still see some of the character on the outer edges
@@cleverghostchili awesome thanks for the info! Just trying to decide if I go this route or with the laowa 12mm to make sure it’s wide. Just hard to give up the Zeiss look 😅
Have u ever used the 35mm 1.4 milvus? Is it almost on par with the 55mm otus because i love the image of the otus but i prefer the 35mm focal length.
I have, I would argue it’s close to the 28mm, very good lens, stay tuned
So many Terence Malick and Wong Kar-Wai vibes. Love it.
It’s actually more difficult to not look like those filmmakers with lenses like these
@@cleverghostchili maybe it's because those lens are even better for those kind of shots.
Hi I am considering Zeiss lenses and thank god I stumbled on your channel. I have a question.. would you recommend Zeiss milvus set or a Otus 55 28 combo for film making.. I shoot on a red dragon system.. dscm2.. I like both but milvus set is cheaper and has more focal lengths.. any input is appreciated
I have a review coming out of another milvus lens. The biggest difference between otus and milvus is the Otus has slightly more dreamier rendering and the Milvus sharper, slightly more boring. The color on the Otus are also better. However, if you are on a budget, definitely can recommend the Milvus, you can also match together quite well. I'd say the Otus 55 is incredible, i have an early review of it, the Milvus 50 is no slouch either,
@@cleverghostchili how about Otus 28 for the coverage ? Or would 21 milvus or 25 be a better option..
@@giordanobruno7943 the milvus 25 is good but less impressive than the 35. It depends on what focal length you prefer, on s35 dsmc2 I think 28 is a super nice focal length, personal favorite. But it depends on if you can find a good deal. Obviously Otus is better, I would definitely buy one because there are not really any better lenses for the price. Can check Vimeo for many examples of red Gemini and Otus
@@cleverghostchili thanks for your input..
@@giordanobruno7943 review out tomorrow of the milvus. Otus better for filmmaking. If you need other focal lengths can fill it out with Milvus. Otus color and rendering better for video. Faces just pop more
Viltrox and the 16mm 1.8 🙏🏻 There's seriously nothing like the look of a moving subject and an ultra wide lens.
Why would you get the EF mount with no aperture ring???
To stay consistent with the Otus lenses. As for why I chose ef for Otus, I believe it came down to mount adaptability, availability, and the unattractive reversed focus direction for Nikon lenses. I think most cameras support electronic communication with lenses these days and the future, I think it will be a fine investment
Do you think this matches with Leica Rs?
@@donovanjugarapLeica R are warmer and have a softer rendering than the 1.4 milvus but are sharper than ultrawides like this one
@@cleverghostchili hmm interesting i'm trying to get a wide the other thought was the zero d Laowas have you had any experience with these lenses?
Laowa 12mm is great, rectilinear and wide. Lots of real estate people use it, also surprisingly mini LF users. Can recommend that one or the Zeiss milvus. I also made a video with dzo ultrawide recently you can check that out, would probably be a closer match with Leica too
where/what's the abandoned location?
An abandoned villa. It was deconstructed because it was built illegally. I live in China, I assume since land is public and not private here the property infringed on certain laws
there go my favorite creator
There go my favorite fans
I feel some inspiration from Dark on Netflix in your kaleidoscope frames
Sic Mundus Creatus Est
What we know is a drop and what we don't know is an ocean@@cleverghostchili
wow that's so pretty
There’s beauty all around us if you look at the right angles
@@cleverghostchili well said 🫡
The Milvus 18/2.8 is cheaper, that's why I chose it. Good footages.
From one side by side comparison I saw it appeared that the contrast was higher on the 18, but I’m content with the 15. Surprisingly the 15mm used copies were cheaper and more available in my country
@@cleverghostchili Yes, you're right, the 18 is harder to find, but I was lucky. The 18 is also smaller and probably lighter.
Terrence Malick vibes!!
Really does look like his style especially when stopped down
i love u