Unpopular opinion, Captain Hook was not evil. Peter Pan cut off this man's hand as a joke so now Captain Hook is out for blood. Peter Pan torments him on a regular basis and acts confused when Captain Hook gets even. Peter is a sociopathic menace and I am not sure why people like him. The only character I like in Peter Pan is Tinker Bell and Mr. Schmee. (Also, Captain Hook dresses very smartly and I love the color red in general. And Mr. Schmee is the best first mate anyone could have. I never coded them as evil even as a kid.)
And don't forget that he is probably a really good captain too. His crew is loyal to him, and never rised up against him, even though they probably have short food, and water suplays. If he was a bad captain, then they would have already raise up against him (in history there have been exemples of this). And I know that we talk about the movie, but in the book Peter Pen is killing the pairets for fun, and Captain Hook is tryind to stop him. (Sorry for the grammer, and speling mistakes English is not my first launvige.)
@@Alexandraadftxr7052 Um in the book Hook kills one of his crew for brushing up against his collar in the Disney movie hook shoots one of his guys who's just singing and playing his music too loud. I love Captain hook but that doesn't mean he ain't a mean piece of shit or justified in trying to harm actual children who have no concept of consequences. (this guy is nastier to both wendy and the lost/ darling boys then peter in every version) Though the anti femme guy take is totally Disney because in the novel Captain Hook being feminine was actually portrayed as this guy is smart because he has a touch of the feminine in him as do all men was the take. Also novel Hook was brave as hell and the narrator even states Hook wasn't completely evil because he liked flowers. The novel for its many many many flaws embraced Fem Hook and thought he was badass.
actually, that's a popular opinion and its completely misses the point of peter pan. Hook & Peter are two extremes childhood vs adulthood that are meant to be deeply flawed., Complex with both their good and bad points highlighted. Hook and Peter are actually very similar
@@drawingwinxstyle9193 I think you should blame the origibal authors of the books and stories for THAT one. Disney didn’t invent the “Evil Stepparent” stereotype
I know race doesn’t apply in this case because they are just lions but there’s also Scar from the Lion King who has a black maine and a darker fur compared to Mufasa, “the good brother”. Also in the sequel we have Kovu who’s not Scar’s biological son but he happens to be a lot darker than the rest of the lions we see, and they made a whole song about “you are different from us you will never be one of us”
I feel like the trope of "dark is evil" often veers into prejudicial tropes, like the idea that certain traits are ugly and are associated with bad people. I feel like many people rely on these types of tropes because they feel like kids won't be able to identify who is bad or not in children's media, but obviously, associating certain appearances with evil to impressionable kids is a really, really bad idea... Besides, the idea that kids won't be able to identify who is supposed to be the villain or not without them is bunk. I can remember always being very frustrated with this trope as a kid because I knew there was something wrong with it. The idea that a whole race or species could be bad was something that I knew was off. And if you can't convince kids your villain is a villain without trying to turn kids against them by their appearance, then maybe you need to consider why they are a villain in the first place.
@@hithere5039 i agree! For me it was the “ugly and evil trope”, like for the evil stepsisters in cinderella (in my language it was literally translated as UGLY stepsisters), like you don’t have to make them conventionally unattractive to make me dislike them… this is even worse when you associate particular physical traits (or colors!!) to being evil…
Yeah in real life, lions like Scar would be the preferred lion to be top dog. But he's not, and he's portrayed as a villian and even a bad leader to justify why he's not in power depsite nature saying he SHOULD be in charge.
@@hithere5039 for me, I'm honestly sick of the whole "light is good and dark is evil" trope. like, when did wearing bright clothes make you a good guy and when did wearing dark clothes make you a bad guy??? it never made sense to me AT ALL. hell, both light energy and dark energy are neither good or evil. light and darkness have pros and cons. while light is important for the universe, too much light might do more harm than good. for example, moonlight is necessary for a plant to survive because without it, a plant may be exposed to too much sunlight and lose water. I have a magical girl team where the main characters wear dark and "edgy" clothes in both civilian form and magical girl form and use dark energy, they aren't actually evil, they're the heroes and protagonists, and they care about the universe and earth. TLDR; the "light is good and dark is evil" trope is annoying and wearing darker and edgier clothes doesn't automatically make someone evil.
I think about how Abuela wasn't really a villain in the traditional sense in your point about her, she was moreso an antagonist (there are differences!) Encanto was a movie about generational trauma and breaking the cycle, and while Abuela was absolutely in the wrong for how she treated Mirabel and Bruno, making those changes is important to the movie as a whole, and learning from the mistakes she made is how everyone is able to get better
i don't agree with people dragging you for saying "queer coded" before. queer is the term that helps in these discussions. its used in research and academia.
Yeah, I also do not agree with dragging Harri for that. I know I mentioned James Somerton before, but he made a video for the case of reclaiming that word. A very solid case in my opinion. Queer is just useful as an inclusive umbrella term. Besides, the LGBT+ acronym is long enough at it is. Any more is just going to be a clumsy mouthful.
My secondary major is Gender and Sexuality Studies. What Lalla and Jacques said is absolutely correct! Queer is used extensively in academia and is an inclusive umbrella term for anyone non straight/cisgender or that has not specified/ does not want to specify a label which is completely cool too! Hence, Queer is always capitalized in academia as it’s been reclaimed by the Queer/LGBTQIA+ community. It represents the culture, is an identifying term, and a power term nowadays. Of course, it was a slur decades ago, and one should be considerate about how they use it around older LGBTQAI+ people, however, younger people and academia generally accept it as a power term almost. And as long as it’s used in positive ways or to critique Queerphobia/homophobia/transphobia etc, there is no problem in saying it. Even by a straight/cis person. I myself am asexual and while I technically fit under the Queer umbrella I chose just to say asexual. Of course, everyone is different! Fact of the matter is, no one should drag you for using the word. If anything, it is more inclusive than gay and more thoughtful of the diverse identities within the community as well as trans/non binary people! Absolutely loveeee your channel by the way❤️ we stand with thee captain
@@harriyanna additionally, the villainization of the use of queer is often a transphobic dogwhistle, especially among FARTs (feminist appropriating radical transphobes). As long as queer is used in a positive context, there’s nothing wrong with saying queer. 👍🏽
Yes ever since I watched it as a kid, I always loved them and never cared for Aurora too much. The most nostalgic parts of that movie for me are scenes with the fairies. Although I guess the movie could also be titled Prince Phillip and his sleeping beauty and the movie wouldn’t even need to change all that much
Two things from my perspective as a queer person: 1. I don't want to invalidate other people's experiences, but I don't have a problem with others saying queer (obviously as long as it's not used offensively, which you weren't), so I'm sorry about the backlash you received previously. 2. I appreciate you discussing the homophobia of King Candy, Wreck-It Ralph is one of if not my favorite Disney movies and I've never even considered the villainization of his design and mannerisms. It just goes to show how often it's been used and normalized.
Also while I see your point with Gothel, allow me to put a counter: Gothel is a vain sorceress who wanted eternal life. She hates getting older because it makes her more frail and doesn’t show her looks that she has pride in. She is meant to represent vanity and the obsession with beauty as a whole. Both she and Gaston are meant to be examples of that kinda thing. Remember Yzma is seen as ugly by the others due to how old she is, but unlike Gothel she believes she aged like wine. She’s usually dressed in very attractive outfits and has a lot of pride in her beauty. She is the opposite of Gothel in that she still believes she’s eternally beautiful despite her advanced age. Edit; And there’s also Ursula. She’s fairly big physically but she has a LOT of pride in her appearance and only took a form like Ariel’s to trick Eric
Okay yeah but "old person who hates being old to the point of kidnapping someone to stay young" and "old person who likes how she looks but is seen as ugly and evil by every pther character" are ageism
@@rachelle5169 well not sure how it’s agism when there are characters who are still treated with respect like Mama Odie, Grandma Tala, Grandma Fa, Mrs. Potts, the Good Fairies, Fairy Godmother, etc. It’s their character that makes them do these things, not the age. Hell, Yzma isn’t seen as evil because of her appearance; she’s evil because she’s trying to murder her foster son for power. Abd Gothel literally kidnapped a baby for the magic power within. Be it for eternal life or incredible power, it’s evil either way to literally steal a baby for he magic inside of it. I legit think the agism thing is kinda where the most stretching is done. The thing with her age being seen as scary is in part due to her manic episodes abd Kuzco beinf a jerk early on
@@dejaypage1575 None of those characters are evil because they're old, they're evil because they're trying to avoid being old, or they're evil and made fun of because they're old, or they're evil and sad because they're old.
That and Gothel abandoned her biological daughter when she stole Rapunzel according to the Tangled series and probably saw her real daughter as nothing more than a mistake that existed.
Then there's that lady from the Aristocats who behaves similar to Yzma (in the sense that she's proud of her beauty) but the movie doesn't laugh at her.
My brother made a good point to me that Hans was not originally meant to be a villain. Cause at the beginning of the movie, he legit has one of those moments where he makes that Disney 'love at first site' expressions when Anna isn't even looking.
Also witj the villains not typically being with someone; it’s usually because a good chunk of them don’t see the purity in love. They usually see it as a way to get ahead or a distraction to use against the hero. They are usually pretty dismissive like Hades’ responses to Meg falling for Herc or Ursula saying that guys only care about looks, or Gaston and Frollo only looking at surface level sets. We aren’t meant to AGREE a with them. The villains saying this stuff makes it the inherent WRONG THING. They usually mock the heroes for falling in love
Yeah I love my disneys but this issue is deeper than I thought. I really admire you for your ability to love something while also criticizing it. Also I’ve noticed that combination of ageism+misogyny is really prevalent in horror movies (another obsession of mine) too, especially in the last few years. Like, is it scary or are they just old? Is it scary or have you just never seen a naked female body in a non-sexual way? I also really appreciate that you don’t use the q word. Ik a lot of people are cool with it, but for so many of us it can be traumatizing to hear. 💕
Excellent video! I will say as someone who is queer and is a fan of Disney their relation to queerness is… complicated. Obviously any queer coded characters are usually villains or sidekicks as a result of the Hays code, but so many of the most beloved Disney Renaissance villains came from gay artists working at Disney like Howard Ashman and Andreas Deja who leaned into their queer backgrounds to create the characters. It’s a complicated subject and having active discussions about Disney’s history is always important.
An important part of the "queer-coded Disney villains" narrative that got left out is that many of them were queer-coded BY queer artists, or at least they had a hand in it. A key example would be Andreas Deja, a character animator who was responsible for bringing multiple renaissance villains like Jafar and Gaston to life. I'm guessing that these artists made their marks on villains because at the time it was the only acceptable way to express themselves in feature animation. And while a little representation is better than none, I agree that the Hays Code was a huge hindrance on them. (Also it's fine to say queer in a broad sense, especially if it's for analytical/academic purposes. The TERFs want you to think it's bad) And to answer your question of "what do you think of when you hear the word 'villain'?" I thought for a second and realized that the villains in some of my all-time favorite stories would in fact be considered "conventionally attractive." They're either refined and aim to pass as trustworthy, are textbook sexy with a dark twist, or what one would call "hauntingly beautiful."
This is an important point that has to be noted. Disney at large wasn't intentionally going out to code all their villains as gay during their traditional animated period. Disney had artists who were finding ways to represent themselves on screen. I would say by the point of movies like Wreck-it-Ralph, they were more leaning into the gay coding thing for their villains. One thing I want to say is that it's simply false to that the idea that "queer" can be offensive is simply a TERF talking point. Hate-groups can co-opt things like these in bad faith but that doesn't mean they are responsible for them. I can agree that it would probably be fine for Harriyanna to say queercoding in this sense (though I can't speak for everyone). However, it gets very frustrating as a LGBT person who is very uncomfortable with the word queer and has to deal with people saying that not liking being labeled a slur is a TERF thing. It's just very frustrating and hurtful.
I'll be the first to admit personally that as a kid, I used to think Captain hook was attractive- I would've never guessed he was a villain at the time because I only saw him in pictures and not the actual "villain" of the story line. But then again I personally liked a lot of the villains from kids shows and movies, going as far as to base my own characters off of their looks and traits- I had never even realized all the problems that was right in front of my face, so now watching this video definitely opened up a lot-
Gurl even the LGBTQ yters get dragged for saying the Q word 😂 i think marlene at Dreamsounds said it best in regards to the use of the word (and if you haven't heard of her please give her vids a watch! She also delves deep into gayness in disney media specifically the music)
You describing the appearance people who wronged us (as the audience), hit home for me. Because that was a very close representation of my SIL and brother who emotionally abused me when I was younger.
I won’t argue the first two bits, it’s legit only the age and body type thing that is kinda a thing for me because a lot of the time, the older villains are also authority figures. Also would point out that Anita and Cruella were classmates, ergo the same age if not close in age
So, in the segment where wreck it Ralph is being talked about I was VERY confused, as I’ve seen the movie thousands of times before and I didn’t remember Ralph saying the slur. So thinking I was most likely misremembering things I went to go check it out my self on Disney plus with captions, and I checked all the scenes with king candy and oddly enough I never saw the slur being used? I’m guessing that Disney probably censored it. Just wanted to share my findings.
I googled what "nelly" means because it's the first time seeing it and google says it just means "silly". There aren't any other etymologies. It's a name of a rapper, it's a girls' name, it's short for Eleanor and Helen... It's Hebrew for Light apparently. I had to google 10 minutes to get to any mention of gay people. (Regardless of it ending up homophobic, I do wonder if the person who wrote it knew it was homophobic or if it was just a nilla wafer pun) Most synonyms for "strange/silly/weird" were used as homophobic slurs
I hate how cartoons try to associate certain traits with being ugly, and being ugly with being a villain. And too many times its based in antisemitism and racism. And holy shit... I cant believe they put a homophobic slur in Wreck-It-Ralph? What in the actual hell????? Is it supposed to be ok because its an archiac slur? Wow, the blatant homophobia reallu shows in Disney. They always want to associate their villains with being gay.
@@blinklestar Its mentioned in the homophoa section. In a scene, a character refers to King Candy (another efeminate Disney villain, with a lisp - real subtle, huh?) as.... A nilly wafer. Except the i was an e. With the e instead of an i, its an archiac term that was coined to mean a silly person, but was also used as an offensive term for effeminate gay men. Its a very in poor taste pun and absolutely bizarre that they ever thought this was ok, much less that most people dont even care a little bit???
I feel so conflicted about queer coded villains because as a queer person I friggin love their looks and attitude it’s my literal favorite but I also know that it’s demonizing my community.
FUN FACT: in "Kingdom of the Sun", Yzma was going to be a witch who'd try to create an eternal night by removing the Sun just so she could restore her youthful beauty. She goes on about this in her song, "Snuff Out the Light".
I dont see it either. Yzma seemed like a goofy twist on the old woman scorned stereotype. She didnt want to be the fairest of them all she reveled in her own self confidence. She was mad because kuzco fired her right?
@@L0rdOfThePies True, but there is a song about her wanting to get rid of the sun so she can be beautiful again. 'Snuff out the Sun', I think it is called.
@@grekoy snuff out the light was made during the beginning of the production of the movie "kingdom of the sun" (Because production of a movie is definitely not linear) which eventually became "emperor's new groove" under a director change. In the original script you'd be right as yzma was a mortician (?) Trying to destroy the sun to reclaim her seemingly lost youth. But not much of this actually pertains to the rewrite and the song is not considered canon and yzma seems to not be bothered at all by her looks
So, I'm thinking that perhaps it is the fact that she's this ambitious, power-hungry ruler who's unmarried. The thing is, I can't recall a single Disney villain that is married, and there can be a lot of reasons for that, but I feel like it's because Disney villains generally do not want love and only care about power. I also feel like the idea that a unmarried and independent ambitious women is strongly associated with being evil or power-driven is more rooted in misogyny more than anything.
Dr. Doofemshmirtz from Phineas and Ferb, his appearance is also based on antisemitism. Even though I like Dr. Doofenshmirtz, his character design, mainly his face with the hooked nose, is a bit offensive.
I'm surprised you didn't mention Ratigan from The Great Mouse detective! He's pretty much the intersection of the issues you brought up in this video. He's a rat pretending to be a mouse, so he's definitely Other, and he's a walking antisemitic stereotype. He's considerably larger than all the other characters in the movie. And he's definitely coded as a predatory older gay man. Ratigan is so queer (you're absolutely allowed to say that word btw, exclusionists are the ones against its reclamation), he's mincing, foppish, and he looks JUST LIKE a certain gay actor from Hays Code era films who always played villains. And he's got a cat named Felicia, which ties into the stereotype of gay men loving cats because they're effeminate or something. All these things considered I'd still say he's the best thing to come out of The Great Mouse Detective because that movie sucked lmao. I watched it with my friends and we started cheering for him to win halfway through.
I love all the research you put into your videos! And btw as a queer person I honestly don’t see anything wrong with the word queer, it’s more of an umbrella term to call the LGTB+, but I do understand if you want to avoid saying the word just in case.
People give you backlash for saying Queercoding, even though that's an established term? (And a large part of the queer community accepting "queer" anyway) Is that just racism? Judging you more harshly even though you do something any other person would? (I know the history of "queer", i've talked with both reclaimers and not, but "queercoding" is an actual literary term)
@@originaluseernameI’m super confused, where did this person mention disability? Lame it’s just a world used for something that’s bland or bad, where does this person mention disability?
As iconic as Disney villains are, you raise several valid points and you are absolutely right. Disney villains often are associated with negative and offensive stereotypes. From antisemitism (as you pointed out in one of your previous videos) to homophobia to racism, there are several cases of villain characters in Disney that are associated with negative stereotypes and that needs to change. Yes, it's great to see villain characters in a film, especially when their songs rock, but when they fall into negative stereotypes, it defeats the purpose of telling a good story. I think one of the reasons Moana gets so much praise is because in addition to the careful details to culture and characters, it breaks that stereotype. Because the central conflict of the film revolves around Moana and Maui returning the heart to Te Fiti, the only character who could be called a "villain" in the film is Tamatoa who (despite being an amazing character) is just a small piece of the film's plot. I've noticed most modern Disney films take the easy route of there being no villain at all and while that's better than using offensive stereotypes, it often makes the films lackluster to their predecessors. I think future Disney films could learn a lot by using the Pixar model of realistic villains but instead of just copy/pasting the idea, put their own spin on it. To provide an example of this, I'll use a few different types of anime villains I commonly see: -the tragic villain: Probably the most notable case I've seen of this done well are several of the villain characters in My Hero Academia. Yes, the series suffers in characterizing its female characters and it shows. However, one thing the author does right is make the villains relatable and Disney could do that with a few of their characters. -the manipulative villain: The best example of this I can give is Kyubey from the Madoka Magica series. He gets the heroes to do his dirty work for him with promises of getting their most desired wishes, but because every wish comes with a catch, things seldom turn out the way the hero wants. Ultimately they discover this, but not until it's too late. -the realistic villain: The best example I can give is Sae Kashiwagi from Peach Girl. She doesn't have any powers, but she fits right in with the anime. She's basically what you'd get if Regina George was an anime character. To be fair, Disney has tried different villain approaches a few times, but they usually don't work as well. I think if they added more people of color, women, and LGBT people to their staff it would help. Still, they have a long way to go though.
P.S. Actually there are two other Disney villains I can think of who don't get redeemed and don't fall into offensive stereotypes: Lord Hater and Lord Dominator from Wander Over Yonder (yes, another Craig McCracken series, but this time for Disney!) Lord Hater is your typical Saturday morning cartoon villain, but just when you think he's going to get redeemed...he goes right back to trying to conquer the universe! Lord Dominator is a villain who was an actual threat, but when Wander saves her, she essentially is all "LOL Nope...this is boring!" Then she leaves to find another galaxy to destroy. xD
Honestly when i saw a blog on tumblr point out how amity was smilling watching luz almost be killed, fully knowing she isnt an abomination and now we , the audience, are supposed to believe shes the perfect match for luz i just threw the entire show away like yes i understand her parents forced her to do nasty things But girl was straight out enjoying watching her future girlfriend almost die
If you make a villain that stays evil but avoid the problematic designs, then you'll end up with someone like Dahmer, which is a whole new problem with trying to avoid making them hot.
I just want more powerful, musical Disney villains. Redeemable or otherwise, I'd like them to get a lot of screentime and spend most of it being cool, intelligent, and iconic.
I’m sry ppl manufactured outrage at you for using queer. It’s perfectly fine to say, people just love finding a reason to prove their personal issue with someone is “objectively correct” to justify harassing them. I don’t understand what happened to ignoring RUclipsrs you aren’t fussed on. If ppl feel uncomfortable identifying as queer individually, that’s fine. But I feel extremely uncomfortable with the gay-washing of queer academic theory that happens online. I am not gay. So many of us are not gay. But we still face the same issues, removing us from the language of the theory set to help us is just shit. I’m sry these ppl have bullied u into going along with it.
Unpopular opinion, Captain Hook was not evil. Peter Pan cut off this man's hand as a joke so now Captain Hook is out for blood. Peter Pan torments him on a regular basis and acts confused when Captain Hook gets even. Peter is a sociopathic menace and I am not sure why people like him. The only character I like in Peter Pan is Tinker Bell and Mr. Schmee. (Also, Captain Hook dresses very smartly and I love the color red in general. And Mr. Schmee is the best first mate anyone could have. I never coded them as evil even as a kid.)
And don't forget that he is probably a really good captain too. His crew is loyal to him, and never rised up against him, even though they probably have short food, and water suplays. If he was a bad captain, then they would have already raise up against him (in history there have been exemples of this). And I know that we talk about the movie, but in the book Peter Pen is killing the pairets for fun, and Captain Hook is tryind to stop him. (Sorry for the grammer, and speling mistakes English is not my first launvige.)
Doesn’t Tinker Bell try and kill Wendy multiple times?
I just knew I wanted Captain Hook's wardrobe. Lol
@@Alexandraadftxr7052 Um in the book Hook kills one of his crew for brushing up against his collar in the Disney movie hook shoots one of his guys who's just singing and playing his music too loud.
I love Captain hook but that doesn't mean he ain't a mean piece of shit or justified in trying to harm actual children who have no concept of consequences. (this guy is nastier to both wendy and the lost/ darling boys then peter in every version) Though the anti femme guy take is totally Disney because in the novel Captain Hook being feminine was actually portrayed as this guy is smart because he has a touch of the feminine in him as do all men was the take. Also novel Hook was brave as hell and the narrator even states Hook wasn't completely evil because he liked flowers. The novel for its many many many flaws embraced Fem Hook and thought he was badass.
actually, that's a popular opinion and its completely misses the point of peter pan. Hook & Peter are two extremes childhood vs adulthood that are meant to be deeply flawed., Complex with both their good and bad points highlighted. Hook and Peter are actually very similar
Disney had a huge problem with older women.
seriously THANK YOU for understanding this. literally one of the major points of this video.
@@drawingwinxstyle9193 I think you should blame the origibal authors of the books and stories for THAT one. Disney didn’t invent the “Evil Stepparent” stereotype
also ppl should note how it gradually makes its way to.... well, attraction to minors 😬hope my comment won't get flagged for saying it like that
I know race doesn’t apply in this case because they are just lions but there’s also Scar from the Lion King who has a black maine and a darker fur compared to Mufasa, “the good brother”.
Also in the sequel we have Kovu who’s not Scar’s biological son but he happens to be a lot darker than the rest of the lions we see, and they made a whole song about “you are different from us you will never be one of us”
I feel like the trope of "dark is evil" often veers into prejudicial tropes, like the idea that certain traits are ugly and are associated with bad people. I feel like many people rely on these types of tropes because they feel like kids won't be able to identify who is bad or not in children's media, but obviously, associating certain appearances with evil to impressionable kids is a really, really bad idea...
Besides, the idea that kids won't be able to identify who is supposed to be the villain or not without them is bunk. I can remember always being very frustrated with this trope as a kid because I knew there was something wrong with it. The idea that a whole race or species could be bad was something that I knew was off. And if you can't convince kids your villain is a villain without trying to turn kids against them by their appearance, then maybe you need to consider why they are a villain in the first place.
@@hithere5039 i agree! For me it was the “ugly and evil trope”, like for the evil stepsisters in cinderella (in my language it was literally translated as UGLY stepsisters), like you don’t have to make them conventionally unattractive to make me dislike them… this is even worse when you associate particular physical traits (or colors!!) to being evil…
Yeah in real life, lions like Scar would be the preferred lion to be top dog. But he's not, and he's portrayed as a villian and even a bad leader to justify why he's not in power depsite nature saying he SHOULD be in charge.
@@hithere5039 for me, I'm honestly sick of the whole "light is good and dark is evil" trope. like, when did wearing bright clothes make you a good guy and when did wearing dark clothes make you a bad guy??? it never made sense to me AT ALL.
hell, both light energy and dark energy are neither good or evil. light and darkness have pros and cons. while light is important for the universe, too much light might do more harm than good. for example, moonlight is necessary for a plant to survive because without it, a plant may be exposed to too much sunlight and lose water.
I have a magical girl team where the main characters wear dark and "edgy" clothes in both civilian form and magical girl form and use dark energy, they aren't actually evil, they're the heroes and protagonists, and they care about the universe and earth.
TLDR; the "light is good and dark is evil" trope is annoying and wearing darker and edgier clothes doesn't automatically make someone evil.
But Kovu did become one of them. He and the other outlanders got accepted by the other lions after Zira was defeated.
I think about how Abuela wasn't really a villain in the traditional sense in your point about her, she was moreso an antagonist (there are differences!) Encanto was a movie about generational trauma and breaking the cycle, and while Abuela was absolutely in the wrong for how she treated Mirabel and Bruno, making those changes is important to the movie as a whole, and learning from the mistakes she made is how everyone is able to get better
i don't agree with people dragging you for saying "queer coded" before. queer is the term that helps in these discussions. its used in research and academia.
i got dragged so bad i been too scared to say the word ever again lmaoooooooo
Yeah, I also do not agree with dragging Harri for that. I know I mentioned James Somerton before, but he made a video for the case of reclaiming that word. A very solid case in my opinion. Queer is just useful as an inclusive umbrella term. Besides, the LGBT+ acronym is long enough at it is. Any more is just going to be a clumsy mouthful.
@@harriyanna Here's something to keep in mind: The people who are dragging you for that are TERFs. I'm not kidding.
My secondary major is Gender and Sexuality Studies. What Lalla and Jacques said is absolutely correct! Queer is used extensively in academia and is an inclusive umbrella term for anyone non straight/cisgender or that has not specified/ does not want to specify a label which is completely cool too! Hence, Queer is always capitalized in academia as it’s been reclaimed by the Queer/LGBTQIA+ community. It represents the culture, is an identifying term, and a power term nowadays. Of course, it was a slur decades ago, and one should be considerate about how they use it around older LGBTQAI+ people, however, younger people and academia generally accept it as a power term almost. And as long as it’s used in positive ways or to critique Queerphobia/homophobia/transphobia etc, there is no problem in saying it. Even by a straight/cis person. I myself am asexual and while I technically fit under the Queer umbrella I chose just to say asexual. Of course, everyone is different!
Fact of the matter is, no one should drag you for using the word. If anything, it is more inclusive than gay and more thoughtful of the diverse identities within the community as well as trans/non binary people! Absolutely loveeee your channel by the way❤️ we stand with thee captain
@@harriyanna additionally, the villainization of the use of queer is often a transphobic dogwhistle, especially among FARTs (feminist appropriating radical transphobes).
As long as queer is used in a positive context, there’s nothing wrong with saying queer. 👍🏽
Okay will say this:
Flora, Fauna and Merryweather are the actual protagonists of Sleeping Beauty. Let’s be honest, they are!
Yes ever since I watched it as a kid, I always loved them and never cared for Aurora too much. The most nostalgic parts of that movie for me are scenes with the fairies. Although I guess the movie could also be titled Prince Phillip and his sleeping beauty and the movie wouldn’t even need to change all that much
@@sofia7816 Philip is in the movie for like 20 minutes. And that’s being a mid ball estimate
Two things from my perspective as a queer person:
1. I don't want to invalidate other people's experiences, but I don't have a problem with others saying queer (obviously as long as it's not used offensively, which you weren't), so I'm sorry about the backlash you received previously.
2. I appreciate you discussing the homophobia of King Candy, Wreck-It Ralph is one of if not my favorite Disney movies and I've never even considered the villainization of his design and mannerisms. It just goes to show how often it's been used and normalized.
Also while I see your point with Gothel, allow me to put a counter: Gothel is a vain sorceress who wanted eternal life. She hates getting older because it makes her more frail and doesn’t show her looks that she has pride in. She is meant to represent vanity and the obsession with beauty as a whole. Both she and Gaston are meant to be examples of that kinda thing.
Remember Yzma is seen as ugly by the others due to how old she is, but unlike Gothel she believes she aged like wine. She’s usually dressed in very attractive outfits and has a lot of pride in her beauty. She is the opposite of Gothel in that she still believes she’s eternally beautiful despite her advanced age. Edit; And there’s also Ursula. She’s fairly big physically but she has a LOT of pride in her appearance and only took a form like Ariel’s to trick Eric
Okay yeah but "old person who hates being old to the point of kidnapping someone to stay young" and "old person who likes how she looks but is seen as ugly and evil by every pther character" are ageism
@@rachelle5169 well not sure how it’s agism when there are characters who are still treated with respect like Mama Odie, Grandma Tala, Grandma Fa, Mrs. Potts, the Good Fairies, Fairy Godmother, etc. It’s their character that makes them do these things, not the age.
Hell, Yzma isn’t seen as evil because of her appearance; she’s evil because she’s trying to murder her foster son for power. Abd Gothel literally kidnapped a baby for the magic power within. Be it for eternal life or incredible power, it’s evil either way to literally steal a baby for he magic inside of it. I legit think the agism thing is kinda where the most stretching is done. The thing with her age being seen as scary is in part due to her manic episodes abd Kuzco beinf a jerk early on
@@dejaypage1575 None of those characters are evil because they're old, they're evil because they're trying to avoid being old, or they're evil and made fun of because they're old, or they're evil and sad because they're old.
That and Gothel abandoned her biological daughter when she stole Rapunzel according to the Tangled series and probably saw her real daughter as nothing more than a mistake that existed.
Then there's that lady from the Aristocats who behaves similar to Yzma (in the sense that she's proud of her beauty) but the movie doesn't laugh at her.
Can I just say, I'm living for the Jessica Rabbit aesthetic you rocking in this vid. ❤️
My brother made a good point to me that Hans was not originally meant to be a villain. Cause at the beginning of the movie, he legit has one of those moments where he makes that Disney 'love at first site' expressions when Anna isn't even looking.
Also witj the villains not typically being with someone; it’s usually because a good chunk of them don’t see the purity in love. They usually see it as a way to get ahead or a distraction to use against the hero. They are usually pretty dismissive like Hades’ responses to Meg falling for Herc or Ursula saying that guys only care about looks, or Gaston and Frollo only looking at surface level sets. We aren’t meant to AGREE a with them. The villains saying this stuff makes it the inherent WRONG THING. They usually mock the heroes for falling in love
Yeah I love my disneys but this issue is deeper than I thought. I really admire you for your ability to love something while also criticizing it. Also I’ve noticed that combination of ageism+misogyny is really prevalent in horror movies (another obsession of mine) too, especially in the last few years. Like, is it scary or are they just old? Is it scary or have you just never seen a naked female body in a non-sexual way?
I also really appreciate that you don’t use the q word. Ik a lot of people are cool with it, but for so many of us it can be traumatizing to hear. 💕
Excellent video! I will say as someone who is queer and is a fan of Disney their relation to queerness is… complicated. Obviously any queer coded characters are usually villains or sidekicks as a result of the Hays code, but so many of the most beloved Disney Renaissance villains came from gay artists working at Disney like Howard Ashman and Andreas Deja who leaned into their queer backgrounds to create the characters. It’s a complicated subject and having active discussions about Disney’s history is always important.
An important part of the "queer-coded Disney villains" narrative that got left out is that many of them were queer-coded BY queer artists, or at least they had a hand in it. A key example would be Andreas Deja, a character animator who was responsible for bringing multiple renaissance villains like Jafar and Gaston to life. I'm guessing that these artists made their marks on villains because at the time it was the only acceptable way to express themselves in feature animation. And while a little representation is better than none, I agree that the Hays Code was a huge hindrance on them. (Also it's fine to say queer in a broad sense, especially if it's for analytical/academic purposes. The TERFs want you to think it's bad)
And to answer your question of "what do you think of when you hear the word 'villain'?" I thought for a second and realized that the villains in some of my all-time favorite stories would in fact be considered "conventionally attractive." They're either refined and aim to pass as trustworthy, are textbook sexy with a dark twist, or what one would call "hauntingly beautiful."
This is an important point that has to be noted. Disney at large wasn't intentionally going out to code all their villains as gay during their traditional animated period. Disney had artists who were finding ways to represent themselves on screen. I would say by the point of movies like Wreck-it-Ralph, they were more leaning into the gay coding thing for their villains.
One thing I want to say is that it's simply false to that the idea that "queer" can be offensive is simply a TERF talking point. Hate-groups can co-opt things like these in bad faith but that doesn't mean they are responsible for them. I can agree that it would probably be fine for Harriyanna to say queercoding in this sense (though I can't speak for everyone). However, it gets very frustrating as a LGBT person who is very uncomfortable with the word queer and has to deal with people saying that not liking being labeled a slur is a TERF thing. It's just very frustrating and hurtful.
I'll be the first to admit personally that as a kid, I used to think Captain hook was attractive- I would've never guessed he was a villain at the time because I only saw him in pictures and not the actual "villain" of the story line. But then again I personally liked a lot of the villains from kids shows and movies, going as far as to base my own characters off of their looks and traits-
I had never even realized all the problems that was right in front of my face, so now watching this video definitely opened up a lot-
Better than me who like loved scar 😅. Also totally had a crush on a home alone villain >.>
I love fatness (and rounded features) in Turning Red 😍
I also loved the rounded animation style
This is why I'm not a huge fan of how Disney codes villains, character-design wise!
Gurl even the LGBTQ yters get dragged for saying the Q word 😂 i think marlene at Dreamsounds said it best in regards to the use of the word (and if you haven't heard of her please give her vids a watch! She also delves deep into gayness in disney media specifically the music)
You describing the appearance people who wronged us (as the audience), hit home for me. Because that was a very close representation of my SIL and brother who emotionally abused me when I was younger.
I won’t argue the first two bits, it’s legit only the age and body type thing that is kinda a thing for me because a lot of the time, the older villains are also authority figures.
Also would point out that Anita and Cruella were classmates, ergo the same age if not close in age
So, in the segment where wreck it Ralph is being talked about I was VERY confused, as I’ve seen the movie thousands of times before and I didn’t remember Ralph saying the slur. So thinking I was most likely misremembering things I went to go check it out my self on Disney plus with captions, and I checked all the scenes with king candy and oddly enough I never saw the slur being used? I’m guessing that Disney probably censored it. Just wanted to share my findings.
THIS JESSICA RABBIT LOOK IS SO GORG!!!! ❤️😍❤️
I googled what "nelly" means because it's the first time seeing it and google says it just means "silly". There aren't any other etymologies. It's a name of a rapper, it's a girls' name, it's short for Eleanor and Helen... It's Hebrew for Light apparently. I had to google 10 minutes to get to any mention of gay people. (Regardless of it ending up homophobic, I do wonder if the person who wrote it knew it was homophobic or if it was just a nilla wafer pun) Most synonyms for "strange/silly/weird" were used as homophobic slurs
I hate how cartoons try to associate certain traits with being ugly, and being ugly with being a villain. And too many times its based in antisemitism and racism.
And holy shit... I cant believe they put a homophobic slur in Wreck-It-Ralph? What in the actual hell????? Is it supposed to be ok because its an archiac slur? Wow, the blatant homophobia reallu shows in Disney. They always want to associate their villains with being gay.
Really? I don’t remember. Which scene?
@@blinklestar When Ralph confronts King Candy
@@blinklestar Its mentioned in the homophoa section. In a scene, a character refers to King Candy (another efeminate Disney villain, with a lisp - real subtle, huh?) as.... A nilly wafer. Except the i was an e. With the e instead of an i, its an archiac term that was coined to mean a silly person, but was also used as an offensive term for effeminate gay men. Its a very in poor taste pun and absolutely bizarre that they ever thought this was ok, much less that most people dont even care a little bit???
Yeah I’m in the part where she talks about it.
@@hithere5039 you mean... "nelly wafer"...?
Huh, I didnt even know king candy was in this category
I feel so conflicted about queer coded villains because as a queer person I friggin love their looks and attitude it’s my literal favorite but I also know that it’s demonizing my community.
FUN FACT: in "Kingdom of the Sun", Yzma was going to be a witch who'd try to create an eternal night by removing the Sun just so she could restore her youthful beauty. She goes on about this in her song, "Snuff Out the Light".
"what does a villain look like to you:
Me and my mommy issues: 😶💀
Wait, i never knew that Yzma was gay-coded. What makes her gay-coded?
I dont see it either. Yzma seemed like a goofy twist on the old woman scorned stereotype. She didnt want to be the fairest of them all she reveled in her own self confidence. She was mad because kuzco fired her right?
@@L0rdOfThePies True, but there is a song about her wanting to get rid of the sun so she can be beautiful again. 'Snuff out the Sun', I think it is called.
@@grekoy snuff out the light was made during the beginning of the production of the movie "kingdom of the sun" (Because production of a movie is definitely not linear) which eventually became "emperor's new groove" under a director change. In the original script you'd be right as yzma was a mortician (?) Trying to destroy the sun to reclaim her seemingly lost youth. But not much of this actually pertains to the rewrite and the song is not considered canon and yzma seems to not be bothered at all by her looks
@@L0rdOfThePies Thanks for the information.
So, I'm thinking that perhaps it is the fact that she's this ambitious, power-hungry ruler who's unmarried. The thing is, I can't recall a single Disney villain that is married, and there can be a lot of reasons for that, but I feel like it's because Disney villains generally do not want love and only care about power. I also feel like the idea that a unmarried and independent ambitious women is strongly associated with being evil or power-driven is more rooted in misogyny more than anything.
Dr. Doofemshmirtz from Phineas and Ferb, his appearance is also based on antisemitism. Even though I like Dr. Doofenshmirtz, his character design, mainly his face with the hooked nose, is a bit offensive.
Actually his family minus his daughter and ex wife all have that hook nose 👃
I'm surprised you didn't mention Ratigan from The Great Mouse detective! He's pretty much the intersection of the issues you brought up in this video. He's a rat pretending to be a mouse, so he's definitely Other, and he's a walking antisemitic stereotype. He's considerably larger than all the other characters in the movie. And he's definitely coded as a predatory older gay man. Ratigan is so queer (you're absolutely allowed to say that word btw, exclusionists are the ones against its reclamation), he's mincing, foppish, and he looks JUST LIKE a certain gay actor from Hays Code era films who always played villains. And he's got a cat named Felicia, which ties into the stereotype of gay men loving cats because they're effeminate or something.
All these things considered I'd still say he's the best thing to come out of The Great Mouse Detective because that movie sucked lmao. I watched it with my friends and we started cheering for him to win halfway through.
i forgot all about that movie cause when i watched it I DID NOT LIKE IT LMMAOOOOO
I love all the research you put into your videos! And btw as a queer person I honestly don’t see anything wrong with the word queer, it’s more of an umbrella term to call the LGTB+, but I do understand if you want to avoid saying the word just in case.
Insightful, really like this take. Looking forward to more on Beauty and the Beast
thank you so much!! and omg that movie.......people give it too much dip on its chip lmaoooo
Even us queer folks get dragged don't mind it at all.
People give you backlash for saying Queercoding, even though that's an established term? (And a large part of the queer community accepting "queer" anyway)
Is that just racism? Judging you more harshly even though you do something any other person would?
(I know the history of "queer", i've talked with both reclaimers and not, but "queercoding" is an actual literary term)
The Headless Horseman was just Ichabod's rival, Bram Bones in disguise.
People dragging you for saying f “queer coding” is so lame. That word has been reclaimed and you weren’t even calling anyone it
“lame”
please don’t equate disability to bad things.
@@originaluseernameI’m super confused, where did this person mention disability? Lame it’s just a world used for something that’s bland or bad, where does this person mention disability?
As iconic as Disney villains are, you raise several valid points and you are absolutely right. Disney villains often are associated with negative and offensive stereotypes. From antisemitism (as you pointed out in one of your previous videos) to homophobia to racism, there are several cases of villain characters in Disney that are associated with negative stereotypes and that needs to change. Yes, it's great to see villain characters in a film, especially when their songs rock, but when they fall into negative stereotypes, it defeats the purpose of telling a good story.
I think one of the reasons Moana gets so much praise is because in addition to the careful details to culture and characters, it breaks that stereotype. Because the central conflict of the film revolves around Moana and Maui returning the heart to Te Fiti, the only character who could be called a "villain" in the film is Tamatoa who (despite being an amazing character) is just a small piece of the film's plot. I've noticed most modern Disney films take the easy route of there being no villain at all and while that's better than using offensive stereotypes, it often makes the films lackluster to their predecessors.
I think future Disney films could learn a lot by using the Pixar model of realistic villains but instead of just copy/pasting the idea, put their own spin on it. To provide an example of this, I'll use a few different types of anime villains I commonly see:
-the tragic villain: Probably the most notable case I've seen of this done well are several of the villain characters in My Hero Academia. Yes, the series suffers in characterizing its female characters and it shows. However, one thing the author does right is make the villains relatable and Disney could do that with a few of their characters.
-the manipulative villain: The best example of this I can give is Kyubey from the Madoka Magica series. He gets the heroes to do his dirty work for him with promises of getting their most desired wishes, but because every wish comes with a catch, things seldom turn out the way the hero wants. Ultimately they discover this, but not until it's too late.
-the realistic villain: The best example I can give is Sae Kashiwagi from Peach Girl. She doesn't have any powers, but she fits right in with the anime. She's basically what you'd get if Regina George was an anime character.
To be fair, Disney has tried different villain approaches a few times, but they usually don't work as well. I think if they added more people of color, women, and LGBT people to their staff it would help. Still, they have a long way to go though.
P.S. Actually there are two other Disney villains I can think of who don't get redeemed and don't fall into offensive stereotypes: Lord Hater and Lord Dominator from Wander Over Yonder (yes, another Craig McCracken series, but this time for Disney!)
Lord Hater is your typical Saturday morning cartoon villain, but just when you think he's going to get redeemed...he goes right back to trying to conquer the universe!
Lord Dominator is a villain who was an actual threat, but when Wander saves her, she essentially is all "LOL Nope...this is boring!" Then she leaves to find another galaxy to destroy. xD
Nice jessica rabbit dress
Yeah very nice
I don't remember that part with the candy king..wack
Honestly when i saw a blog on tumblr point out how amity was smilling watching luz almost be killed, fully knowing she isnt an abomination and now we , the audience, are supposed to believe shes the perfect match for luz i just threw the entire show away like yes i understand her parents forced her to do nasty things
But girl was straight out enjoying watching her future girlfriend almost die
I LOVE YOUR COSPLAY
If you make a villain that stays evil but avoid the problematic designs, then you'll end up with someone like Dahmer, which is a whole new problem with trying to avoid making them hot.
Happy Anniversary to Snow White.
I just want more powerful, musical Disney villains. Redeemable or otherwise, I'd like them to get a lot of screentime and spend most of it being cool, intelligent, and iconic.
What's up Jessica WRATCHET!
But Hans in frozen is a villian and recognized for his good looks
I’m sry ppl manufactured outrage at you for using queer. It’s perfectly fine to say, people just love finding a reason to prove their personal issue with someone is “objectively correct” to justify harassing them. I don’t understand what happened to ignoring RUclipsrs you aren’t fussed on.
If ppl feel uncomfortable identifying as queer individually, that’s fine. But I feel extremely uncomfortable with the gay-washing of queer academic theory that happens online. I am not gay. So many of us are not gay. But we still face the same issues, removing us from the language of the theory set to help us is just shit. I’m sry these ppl have bullied u into going along with it.
FIRSTTT
hi!
@@harriyanna omgg hiii!!
Dear Harriyanna, me and friends are trying to make a diverse book series, but we don't want to make it misogynistic, how can we try to not do that?
Yooo who the hell is dragging u for saying queer
Leave her be, yall