As life doesn't come from matter but matter comes from life, so complexity doesn't come from simplicity but simplicity comes from complexity, and nothing comes from something as darkness comes from light. The problem with the materialistic minds is that they see everything topsyturvied.
Interesting. This brings about the question of what is truly life? We've become so accustomed to thinking about life coming from matter, that we often don't consider that just maybe life was always hear and matter came after or was created by life. Simplicity comes from complexity, to me this sounds like its like saying there was not beginning, anything at all is simply a simple part of a bigger complexity and always for however far you go in either direction(for everything, time, size etc...). Delving further into your comment, you mention nothing comes from something, is this equivalent to saying you can only have the idea of nothing after you have something? I think i get what you mean, you compared it to darkness comes from light. All these have one thing in common, you need a conscious observer to define something.
Can the rapid development of humanity be explained naturally, or some external influence needed that would mean a more advanced intelligent life exists?
Is the universe discriminative to life and mind? I see that it is the same thing. Where is life, where is mind. Where is the universe -- is it without or within, God. Life seems to pervade the universe like light does with the air, you cannot see illumination, it allows you to see. You cannot see life and it is within and around. Is mind other than life, are these other than the Universe? Atomists divide everything to make since of this place here. The truth is One. Heat, gavity, electricity, magnetism, light -- One. Why would the universe be other than life and mind -- without life and mind there is no universe.
Yes, the Mind, the Life, the real Living, is unassailable, and so like invisible! The Life (God) can never appear in science, science is its tool for self intervention for reason of self transformation and realization. Science is, like religion, a way of self alienation, in both the subject of knowledge steps each in a specific way next to itself, for reason of self intervention - or short: for growth. So to say: We "buy" our knowledge with renunciations in thinking. Or in other words: the "lawmaker" substracts itself to get the isolated "laws"! The God that "will come" means the Life that will have once fully realized itself, the point in far far future, spoken with Max Planck, where science and religion will meet - at their common goal! But science is not full thinking, has nothing to do with the truth and sense, is not even world explanation, and is not self-recognition!
Ok, but not necessary. Homo sapiens, even when began 1m years ago is steel very young species and culture. What if condition of developing higher skills/tools (survive next millions years) demands higher morality - only peaceful race can last ? What if the base is love?
The answer seems obvious. Earth is exquisite, intelligent life is not common. And this universe itself appears to be some kind of garden. It’s a beautiful, frightening and certainly not original concept, expressed in a myriad of ways since the dawn of humanity. The universe is under no obligation to explain itself further, so we get all kinds of excuses and imaginative explanations to tell each other. Some explanations are simple and graceful allegory, many are twisted human perversion used to take advantage. It’s also painfully obvious that we’re evolving animals battling our own psychology.
If the human mind(s) is a product of this universe, how amazing is it that this is how the "universe" evolves into a stage that to have an urge to understand itself.
Seems to me, there is more than one great filter. There was, for example, a huge gap of time before first life and microbes emitting oxygen as waste into the atmosphere. Another for bacteria and archaea to combine as a chimera, and successfully become a eukaryotic organism. Then another before they became specialized cells in a multi celled organism. After that and before that really, climate had a strong say in how and how fast life was going to develop. If at all. It seems there was an easier slide to get from the Cambrian explosion to us, well, loosely speaking. These were all filters. And of course, I am not even mentioning events such as volcano fields on steroids, or a particular asteroid 66 million years ago, And now it seems, we are providing ourselves quite a potent filter to our own existence, be it by nuclear war, or climate change that may already have us by the huevos. Or, if we are lucky, just slowing us done for some hundreds or thousands of years. I have found myself hoping that some sentient life out there in the cosmos may get past what we seem to be bringing down on ourselves. But very recently, it has also occurred to me to root for the home team, damnit! If we are our own Great Filter, then by hook or crook, I'm wanting us to survive ourselves, and become sophisticated enough to combine our intellectual capacity with wisdom, instead of knowingly cause our own misery and perhaps, extinction.
Agree... 1) Even the simplest life is incredibly complex certainly not something that will automatically pop up anywhere conditions are favorable. 2) There very easily could have been an asteroid a little too big, nearby supernova, flyby with another star etc., at any time in the last few billion years that could have sent us back to square 1. 3) We are only about a billion years away or so from the sun becoming too hot. What if evolution usually takes twice as long, or more? Those are just a few, and there are many others as well.
I agree. We are here by mere chance and I mean incredible chance of improbabilities. But because anything that can happen most likely does happen somewhere, at some time in our reality. So, for the same reason Eternal Inflation theory solves the fine tuning problem, the theory has its own challenges such as infinities. I believe they're on the right track in String Theory in finding a unified theory, however, the biggest challenge resides within experimental physics. We have limitations because of a number of roadblocks, the event horizon is one, the energies required to go deeper in reduction of QFT is another.
Want some sad take on the filter? One day people would face that our mind, that we so proud of, is just an excessive function of survival. Evolution's bizzare whirlwind. Some day we inevitably will win against our best friends - fear, pain and death. We will take the full control of our fate. An average human being would live as long as it likes and leave this world whenever it likes. You will control your pain receptors, depression inducing mechanisms, your physique, your looks, your IQ level. You will re-upload yourself, if you unfortunately manage to die. You'll comfortably live your best life as long as you want. Do your art, science or a LIVE reaction podcast, whatever. Also as a basic human right of that era, you will have some sort of a very special button inside you. The button with many protections and authorizations. If you push it, you are gone forever. There will be no scenario, where anything may stop you from doing so, other than your own will. At last, we will finally stop surviving at the Golden Age of humanity. And then your mind will go out through the same door which your tail once went off. It won't be needed anymore. Just keeping be there will be too much of an unnecessary effort. Some days you would find a reason to go on, some others you won't. And there will be nothing to stop you from closing your eyes: nor pain, nor fear, not even curiosity. Ofcourse, you may try to avoid that with some restrictions. These days we use religion and law for that matter. But ultimately, some day, we will get there, to the dawn of happy ending.
Or, you can believe in existential nihilism. There can be "meaning" but there is no "purpose". BTW, who says human subjective consciousness can be uploaded to a hard drive? A lot of wild off the chart speculation. Last point. The filter in my belief is ahead of us and yet not too far. Perhaps a short number of years. Just look at what one particular world power just did.
@@Ascendlocal I'm not sure if I get everything you said. I barely care if human consciousness may be uploaded. I just think that people live, because there are carrots and sticks for that purpose, but we already know it's principle. It's a matter of time for sticks to be removed and carrots exhausted. Put an immortal person into a small dark box, isolated from everything for a 100 years or so. When you'll open it, there would be a living husk of that person. His mind would leave him decades ago. This happens in real life to people that were trapped in isolation for a long period. I wonder, where their beautiful mind and soul go in these cases, even though their bodies are still ok? Someday the whole world and everything beyond will become this small box for a person. It won't hurt. It will be like...I don't know, like watching the clouds before falling asleep. And everytime you blink, eons would pass, until you won't be able to determine if you're still watching.
@@dmitrychirkov4206 well, I certainly don’t understand what you’re saying. Sticks and carrots? Is that a metaphor for finite resources? You interject nihilism, nirvana or both? What happened to the departed mind and soles? Uh, death is oblivion perhaps. No perception of time passes because you’re no longer conscious, let alone, alive. You simply cease to exist. Whew…have a nice day.
@@deedhesi8014 makes perfect sense - and to anyone who says but there has to be something that started it all - i'd argue that there is no need for a 'creator' if something has ALWAYS existed..matter can be neither created nor destroyed...you go back and back and back and back for infinity...
Forget about it. The Theory of Universal Functions ... is the scientific explanation of the Sir Issac Newton's Watchmaker Analogy. Everything makes sense when you accept matter, energy, space & time and the Laws of physics are FUNCTIONS ... and understand what a Function is & its origin. Go on. Fully define the Function Category using data from KNOWN functions and determine the origin of anything that is a Function. There is a reason why there is no evidence that the Universe & Life have a NATURAL origin. Science is actually all about discovering & understanding all the functions in the Universe, how they interact and their possibilities/limitations.
@@Dion_Mustard Something can always exist and have a creator, thats also logical. In fact if it is infinite then its likely there is a creator which is similar to the theory we are in a hologram or simulation. If it can be done, then it will be done infinity times making it almost impossible to not be in a simulation or within some kind of universe that was created. Does that make sense? I hope i explained that well.
Your guest is assertively ignoring a VAST amount of evidence, some now provided by our very own government and military, that we have been and are currently being "visited" with some considerable frequency. This seemingly deliberate stubbornness, common with academics in particular, is happily now beginning to melt away as the data become more widely-shared. Finding this blinkered attitude so firmly in place with accomplished individuals such as Dr. Bostrom nonetheless continues to surprise me since it rather clearly risks chronic misdirection of resources and attention.
Finding life will be our doom; the great filter is ahead of us? Maybe we humans are just the “First Ones” in the entire universe??..... (ie, there is No great filter.)
Without light and warmth (love) coming from the sun/son...this planet is nothing but a spec of dust floating in a vast ocean of darkness and emptiness. But with light and warmth (love) coming from the sun/son...this spec of dust transforms into a paradise planet lifeboat...bristling with miraculous works of fine art called "life". Every miraculous work of fine art called "life" is so rare and unique that each one happens only once in time, space and dimension.
I have a plausible explanation why advanced civilizations don't colonize: they might just not plan that far ahead. Colonizing even only the next planet would take at least several decades and human decision makers never plan ahead more than about 50 years and very seldom more than about 10 years. Especially I don't know a lot of big budget projects that didn't finish within 10 years or at least partially finish and create some output (profit, scientific results or things like that) within that timeframe.
That was my first thought when he said that. Nick Bostrum came up with a process of colonizing the galaxy but its a no go process. There is no leader that would sanction a project that would take a million years. There is other intelligent life in our galaxy it is just interstellar travel and colonizing the galaxy is not feasibility.
@@seriousbeatsam9386 it was already partially usable after about 20 years. Also their original plan was probably to finish it in about 100 years but they ran out of money several times including a 282 years long period where no work at all was done. For comparison: the much bigger St. Peter's Basilica was finished in 120 years although even it had slow building phases.
@@rfvtgbzhn I think it's a good example of how a mega project over several generations would pan out. a quick start with lots of resources to get something usable. And then you have to deal with things like the lack of resources or people loose interest in funding it. Not every generation may be so passionate about building something they never see finished. It goes through a lot of hands,mistakes will be made,the project stalls for hundreds of years or even gets partially teared down and rebuild again. Of course there are a lot more good examples like the great wall. Some are never finished and left to rot,and some come out as a great success after all these years. I like to look at these projects of the past to get a feel of how we may tackle big projects in the future and what problems we may expect.
We haven't really searched for existing life on other planets. We are just eager finding out the beginning of the universe. Life at the beginning could only be concentrated at a small area of a planet, that's why we need to observe the whole planet. Our deserts and oceans would be dead objects for aliens.
Life produces universe as its own structure! It's that Life, the real Living, the unassailable Subject of knowledge, the Mind, that can principially never appear in science and in empirical world, that can pull itself even out of the nothing, - organizing, transforming and realizing itself! For that we are something like "living building bricks"! The one who will be in the end is the same who was in the beginning!
Philosophical thinking. However, your position ignores the known, proven nature of Emergence as well as the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, order to disorder over time and until heat death.
I wonder just after the black hole era when the last black holes evaporate through hawking radiation, when a boltzman brain arises? And considering the universe will be in a conformal geometry phase, instead of all that radiation spread out, it will be interacting, and possibly the energy source of the boltzman brain.
'Topology' ... What is 'big'?? .... What is 'tiny'? ... Once, One believes that existence is measured by apes perceptions ... the 'big' and the 'tiny' will beautifully enclose those fragmented ones into nothingness ...
Nick Bostrom may have seen too many SF movies ( then is good for him ). Imho life / the universe is teaming with subtle messages coming to us, suggesting there is intelligent life besides 'us'. One favorite pointer seems the location of the WOW ! signal. Science does not ( yet ) have the intelligence - no offence - or tools to recognize that Ohio might have been consciously chosen [ by ET / our celestial friends ], to send us 'the letter' called the WOW ! signal, in August 1977. The fact that the WOW ! signal was delivered in 72 seconds, the exact amount of time for ET to leave us a message ( ! ), the fact that the two strongest ot the six ( 6, E, Q, U, J, 5 ) parts that formed this signal seem to point at what all great human teachers are suggesting : That : life is a Quest for Us .. etc.. A personal favorite of all pointers is that the location of 'the WOW !' was Ohio, [ O hi O ] ... Such simple tool ( humor ) will hopefully in the near future elegantly lead us into a direction we may ( almost ) all understand.
A Universe without life is just a fuzzy zone of probability and energy. Like GTA 5 running with the TV turned off. It exists but it's just a mathematical program running in its own space and time. A bunch of zeros and one's flying about with no form. It doesn't really exist the way a human would define existence. But in once sense it exists.
The stage is set! But why set the stage? Oh ofcourse, for the people! The universe is but a stage, apparently one of many! Ofcourse it was created for us!!! Do you not know who you REALLY are?
Nick had to dig deep to respectfully answer an impossible opening question. An untrue question and almost cohersive. Charmingly deflected. The principle of entropy states life inevitably ends. The anthropic principle does not counter this. For the part it does, maybe, it is not considered science by many. And those who do like Susskind limit that to the realm of quantum mechanics and string theory. And that is theoretical physics. Why not accept the openess of us knowing we are but very well might not be soon and it depending on us now? Our importance in the greater scheme will appear when we find the balance...if we find the balance. And not assume the balance.
Average species life expectancy is around 2 to 3 Mio years for mammals. So sapiens expectancy into the future only spans a couple of hundred thousand years without technology. With technology this span will not lengthen but shorten, as we will evolve us beyond our own species. The alternativ would be ultra slow technological development over say a hundred million years. This would mean that books were invented by the first Neanderthals and we would be about to invent the first steam machine now. The universe has shown that from a certain intelligence level on technological evolution is exponential. So these scenarios about humans like us colonizing the galaxy over hundreds of millions of years have a probability of almost zero. We would have to have a species that is intelligent like us but have no progress and no new thoughts and ideas over millions of years and follow an ultimately senseless spread like viruses without any purpose at all AND without evolving/mutating at all, because nothing would be achieved, as nothing ever only slightly impactful happens during the spread so it continues for an eternity. This would mean that nothing will be able to change our minds on millions of planets over millions of years, and there would be no technological progress, in all the factions who spread, and there would be eternal consensus to expend energy to spread. Likelihood is practically zero. This thesis is an eternal today-egocentric view of the universe. The universe very quickly dispenses with any species that stops evolving but for a few. And the more intelligent the species or sub-species the shorter its life span. Look at the many hominid species. We are cursed to evolve ever more quickly and that means our species life span might end in a couple of thousand years.
It's kinda insane that a person who recognises all the stars and the planets has so narrow logic about life outside earth. It's obvious that our life on earth isn't unique. It's most reasonable that our short 200 year development and understanding about existence is short. It's absolutely obvious that intelligent civilisations that exists millions of years are like gods to us and they don't interfere to our life!
Mr Bostrum is totally right, it would be very bad news to find life on the nearest planet to earth, that would mean that life is very common, but as we do not observe colonizers, then colonization is impossible.
If in the infinite time of the Universe no life has evolved nearby and become able to traverse space and make themselves known to us. If life has evolved very far away in an infinite universe and become able to traverse space even so they could not make themselves known to us.
The deeper question is, is it possible for a universe to propagate having conciousness as a fundamental, or as a separate phenomena to matter. ie, independent of matter.
Would the fact that intelligent human appeared on the scene so recently (thousands to tens of thousands of years ago) say anything about there being more advanced intelligent civilizations in galaxy?
are you talking about civilization or just when humans appeared? Humans have been around at least for hundreds of thousands of years, but civilization a fraction of that, likely at least 10k years.
@@ManiBalajiC later in the discussion, the speaker draws attention to anthropogenic causes... so basically, is it just mechanical that we can predict by understanding the natural laws of physics or could it be designed as to limit a certain outcome, that we might currently not be aware of ...
We have knowledge of life on one star-ours. So 100% of the stars we know about have life. There are 200 billion trillion stars in our universe. The number of stars that have life is no doubt is a very high number. Simple math.
If we found life on Mars I'd think it would be much more likely that it would be evidence of panspermia rather than independent development of life. However at the moment it looks like we are the only life in the solar system, which makes sense considering how perfect the Earth is for developing life.
Perfect for the type of life we have. We only have the life on earth to think about and compare, evidence recently supports that carbon seems to be by far the best still and silicon not near as good for a base for life as originally thought.
With pockets of increasing complexity and structure in an expanding universe of increasing entropy, might be more complex and intelligent life that is more efficient than human, for example smaller and more advanced (like computers progressed); just as animals and humans were an improvement in complexity and intelligence on dinosaurs and other life? Maybe there is advanced intelligent alien life that is so small that we will have difficult time detecting?
Yes, of course. It's called AI. These UAPs the DOD admits to are indeed at a level of intelligence that far exceeds human technologies and possible incomprehensible to human minds. I don't believe they contain sentient beings but though simple postulating, they are obviously controlled by this higher level of intelligence.
Entropy increases to disorder, not order. Ripping apart complexity. Complexity & order is temporal within the 2nd law. It ends with Heat Death of the universe.
Excelente video. Excelente but not inteligent. It isnt Science because possibilities figuret out Universe civilization from he minds is zero. He minds looks like magazine Sci fi. Science fake.
In a way yes, but God is in us, God is in everyone, but not everyone knows that! God is the Life and the point in far far future where Life will have fully realized itself, with all its promised capabilities! For that we are something like "living building bricks". 😉
@@Ascendlocal Science can never answer metaphysical questions, questions about the whole! But the belief in Aliens and the Ufo hype is a lack of thinking, and a lack of spirituality and a longing for transcendence! (to understand just look at the comments after mine!) Like science is not full thinking, it's a shortened, dimmed, shadowed, instrumental thinking!
@@Ascendlocal yes aliens are real, those who Stabilised humanity and gave direction for human race... But those aliens are not just aliens... They are our gods ..
@@neffetSnnamremmiZ well, your postulate is not only unfalsifiable but is even less than metaphysical. It’s wish thinking. Other comments? So what? 80% of Americans believe in (their) God. That doesn’t make it true. Just that no one wants to consider truth, that no one survives death. But here’s a fact you can’t deny. The second law of thermodynamics. Moving forward in time, everything moves to disorder, aka, oblivion. It’s called the Heat death of the universe, yours and mine, reality. Unless you find another “force” in QFT, you have no rationale argument.
I suggest that it's as possible that human animals will live to see an afterlife, as will alligators, or bears, or elephants, or mosquitoes, and that if human animals go extinct ... all the religious tales will also go extinct, and other animals will continue to reproduce and suffer, which always was, and always will be ... nature's way.
Afterlife? Please provide us your postulate on just what that entails. Don’t tell me you haven’t given that some thought. So, by all means, give us your glimpse into this afterlife world.
@@Ascendlocal I don't believe in an afterlife for human souls, as I don't believe that humans have souls. If devotees used the word "thoughts" rather than the word "souls" ... I suggest it would sound ridiculous, when human animals die, to say "His or her thoughts will either go flying off to heaven ... or to hell ... or to reincarnate." Without the word "soul," there couldn't be any religion. All stories are based on what the soul is thinking, and what the soul is doing, and where the soul came from, and where the soul is going after death of the physical body. Fortunes have been made by theologians who taught that the soul is a gift from God, and that women must never have abortions, because abortions offend God's gift to humanity. Evolution of the soul is a huge seller in religion. It means that your soul is ever upgrading and will hopefully soon make the grade of God's "entire" approval of enlightenment and salvation … or … that in the afterlife something horrible could happen to your soul. If you remove the word "soul" from religion, you will not have anything but ground zero.
Nick writes his own name in english as Bostrom (his name in swedish is Niklas Boström), not Bostrum. You know, english lacking the last three ÆØÅ of the alphabet, here ø/ö ,that we use in Scandinavia.
One alien came to me once for sure. Not long after i was watching two Nasa guys in white rope,sitting with alien in the middle . They were making some experiments on him. I was so sorry for the alien, i started crying like a baby. I couldn't stop... when alien came shortly after, of course it was logic to me, that he came to show me he is ok. What would you think..
I feel that. His style frustrated me after a while, but now I've come full circle and deeply appreciate it. Because, in order to find meaningful answers, you first have to ask: what are the meaningful questions? When so much of this stuff blends the metaphysical, the naturalistic & everything in between, one must tread very lightly. Origins, Meaning, Mortality... these are the questions humanity has yet to surmount...
Well, that would be as expected because some questions can never be answered. Why is there something rather than nothing? Proof of a multi-verse. Why entropy was so low at the big bang, odds beyond any of the "fine tuning" values. Roger Penrose says magnitude of 10 to the 10, to 10, to the 123. He said it makes the Anthropic Principal obsolete. I mean, this is both scary & exhilarating stuff
What is the relationship between consciousness and life? Are they truly synonymous with each other? Can one exist with out the other? In order to really answer this we really need to find a truly universal definition of life. We currently define it based on only one perspective of life on earth. Could we spot life and think we don't because it doesn't fit what we think life is? Mind is easier to study because it within the realm of science, it can be tested much easier then consciousness. I strongly believe we need to be careful of what the difference is between mind, self-awareness, and consciousness.
The Mind, the Self, the Subject of knowledge, the Life, the real Living, can never appear in empirical world! It's unassailable, and so like invisible! That's the difficulty with self recognition that it is exactly about the (in principle) invisible!
@@arletottens6349 Let me trying to guess what you mean by that. Basically life is anything that organizes thing around it, making it simpler? Or did you mean something else?
I disagree. Only you know you have subjective consciousness. You can't know that I do, and I can't know that you do. Why do you think the "Hard Problem" coined by David Chalmers is still front and center? Ed Witten, thinks we'll never prove it mathematically. Giulio Tononi, has his integrated Information Theory
It's probably hard to live without the natural FEELING OF COSMOS. When did you look at the Milky Way last time, Mr. Nick Bostrum? Do it, please. And, perhaps, the feeling of cosmic harmony will help you bring new knowledge to humanity, not so pessimistic, as you have today. GREAT COSMIC HARMONY, Mr. Nick Bostrum BUT NOT the GREAT FILTER. Philosopher, linguist Marina Sidorenko.
That's equivalent too looking at a tree or tv. The milky way is just a finite part of the cosmic whole. What you did was not something special, but you did a sort of placebo effect, but this doesn't make it not real, you just found the right tool that worked for you, this is why when recommending things like this it will often not work because everyone needs to at least have found the step before looking at it that way, and that's to simply be open to the presence or the feeling of the cosmos. Simply put a person can only move forward if they understand that there is a way to move forward.
so he knows?? but, remember what he said "I think". so he is only guessing!!!!!!!!!!!!! what I think; iF there is an intelligent life form out there that is 1 milling years more "advanced" than people on Earth they just could be traveling where they wish to. now, what if they were 10 millions or 70 million or 300 million years more advanced.
thats assuming a alien species advances that way and at that speed. Logically it would make sense aliens would think differently therefore the path they take with technology could be entirely different, obviously this only applies to intelligent alien life going by our made up definition of what intelligence even is. For example a alien species could be extremely advancing in biology while never bothered to travel in space.
Here’s a question to ponder. How many explanation marks in punctuation does it take to affirm that you really, really, really “mean” it? I don’t care who they are, and I do believe they exist, they are doing it by science, albeit a science we have not yet embarked upon.
@@peacefindersimply5001 I see your point, but you didn't add in the fact that there could possibly be millions even billions of more advanced ETs out there.
*He doesn’t take into account quantum teleportation. I would assume that life forms that know how to teleport are immortal. If there is life out there (which there most likely is considering the countless accounts of UFOs and how many exoplanets have been found and the hundreds of billions of stars amongst hundreds of billions of galaxies within the observable universe [which seems infinite]) and they know how to teleport (despite humanity only barely discovering what quantum teleportation is recently), they must know how to teleport back and forth from earth and present themselves as UFOs. If you can teleport particles, you can teleport diseases out of you. I’d assume that at this point, all they do is use their minds and not technology. They must be peaceful because the concept of being able to go to war automatically goes obsolete because your enemy could teleport away from the violence as much as you can.*
I agree. Any far advanced civilization would be peaceful because we don't have anything they need. They would just watch us for entertainment or help us along as a natural obligation to other life forms. Since being alive binds us.
@@arletottens6349 what's possible is redefined by our understanding as we learn about the universe we live in. It is naive to claim anything is impossible when living in a world where man flies through the sky in aluminum vehicles and we can power entire cities by splitting atoms
Enough with the pseudo science. There is a reason why there is ZERO scientific evidence for the Universe & Life having a NATURAL origin 14 billion or 4 billions years ago. It is assumed that a star, planet, moon or other cosmic matter & energy were naturally formed given the vast size of the universe and enough time. This is bad science ... as they have all gone straight to the Conclusion step in the scientific method then continuously cycle through each refining the Conclusion, and seeking a hypothesis and the data that supports the Conclusion. The Question about the origin of the Universe & Life .... has no been addressed in the correct manner by the community, but instead almost all hypothesis support the narrative that it is a fact the the Universe has a natural origin 14 billion years ago and Life 4 billion. Natural selection only causes variation within a species or genus. It is not proof the mechanism driving the evolution of life from a common ancestor. To this day, ... there is no evidence in the fossil record of evolutionary transitions forms & precursors. But the Fossil recored is consistent with an explosion of complex life at various distinct levels of the geologic column. All the Coal in the world was made at the same time and in the same layer. This is clear evidence of a worldwide catastrophic event in the past, not only laying down the coal layer but also the fossil records. Radiometric Dating can not be used to determine absolute dates of objects, because it assumes to know the starting parent & daughter isotope concentration, there was no inheritance or contamination, and the decay is constant. C14 has fully decays in 50 000 years but diamonds are said to be millions of years old have detectable C14 in them. Fresh lava rocks of known age ... are consistently showing ages of hundreds of thousands & millions of years old Dinosaur fossils have been found with soft tissue when it is suppose to be tens of millions years old. Again. Most believe it is a fact that the Universe & Life had a NATURAL origin 14 & 4 billions years ago ... have just straight to the Conclusion ... and cycles through the scientific method seeking a hypothesis and data that supports the conclusion They are routinely violating the laws of physics with their latest hypothesis/theory and not actually following the science or the scientific method. The Theory of Universal Functions ... obeys the Laws of physics, follows the data & the science, and the Scientific Method. It is the scientific explanation of Sir Issac Newtons observation that the physical Universe is like a finely tuned Watch. Newton did not make the logical Hypothesis from his "Watchmaker Analogy" to be tested and evaluated in the scientific method. But is is clear what the Hypothesis would be for the Universe being like a Watch or machine. The Universe is a Function, composed entirely of Functions ... and ... requires specific matter, energy, space, time, information & laws of physics in order to exist & to function. This hypothesis, is easily confirmed to be a science Theory, by simply fully defining the Function Category using all data about known Functions. All Functions have a purpose or role ... process inputs into outputs ... and are made by an intelligence who must provide the required information for any function to exist & to function. Now can you see why there is ZERO scientific evidence that that Universe & all life have a NATURAL origin. Matter, energy, space, & time and the Laws of Physics are ... Functions. Science is actually all about discovering & understanding all the Functions in the Universe, and how they interact with each other & their possibilities/limitations. The Theory of Universal Functions .... is good science ... and is derived from Newtons' Watchmaker analogy observation. The Universe & our existence makes complete sense once you follow the science, and view everything as Functions ... made by an intelligence for a purpose.
I think if we found life somewhere on another planet that would be bad news for believers, because that would mean that life itself is nothing but a material product of a planet. That consciousness is material. This scenario is impossible because the unique thing about life on earth is that in function, life operates insulated and detached from the ravages of the planet , And life only survives by feeding on the byproducts of other forms of life. The fact that life is only on earth shows that we are more than just physical material products of a planet
Life existing somewhere else does not make it a merely material phenomenon. It kind of depends if we are talking about a bacteria or other sentient beings. Even if there are other sentient beings on other worlds it would still seem that is very rare and special.
@@jordan_8329 well I could see that point but then that may mean that consciousness itself is universally abstract and exists throughout the universe . But unless we know the nature of the substance(s)of consciousness , the simple physical conditions of any planet should not be relevant to whether or not life like ours exists there. The physical conditions on earth may allow for the flesh , but those conditions remain exactly the same even after the death of the individual flesh
Why is it so hard to admit that we have no way of knowing if there is other life in the universe? What means do we have to identify other civilizations? Even if some other civilization could travel faster than light, what are the odds they would stumble upon this planet on an outside spiral of this galaxy?
Because we can detect things and see some things, its just very very hard, and will just get easier as we get more technologically advanced and hopefully more open to different ways life can be. Basically we can only find them if we can keep trying, that's why.
Maybe there is no extraterrestrial life, possibly this believe is based on totally wrong physical and metaphysical assumptions! But with these projections Life transforms and pushes itself!
This is one of the odder questions in this series. Another way to put it is, does material reality contain the source of non-material reality? Which leads me to wonder "where does Robert think personality is in an atom?" A fairly ludicrous question! In order to have mind, you have to have life. Yes, life uses material bodies in order to exist, but are those chemical components that make of a body the necessary source of that life? It would seem the answer is pretty obvious. Dead bodies contain the same chemical components of a living body, yes? So why don't they live forever? The atoms continue to exist forever. Obviously, life is quite separate from the form it uses to function in. Which would pretty quickly lead one to conclude that the two are independently sourced.
Dualism is a dead idea (pardon the pun)? You miss one important fact. The difference in a live body and a dead body is the arrangement of its particles. Consciousness is an emergent phenomena from a complex system containing a neural network. You say the atoms continue to exist? Yes, but the complexity no longer does. An arrangement of particles, emergence from complexity.
@@Ascendlocal 🤣🤣 "Arrangement of its particles"? Seriously? According to the dictionary, "life" is defined as the ability to adapt. That means all life has intelligence. Whence cometh this intelligence from an arrangement of particles, pray tell? I'll bet all the biochemists in the world would not be able to take the particles of an ameba, assemble them together in exactly the same manner as a real ameba, and then be able to cause it to come alive. No my friend, there is more to reality than just physical matter. Take identical twins for example, by your logic, they should share the same personality, and yet, they do not.
@@ericjohnson6665 the dictionary is your source material? Then read your dictionary and acquire your PhD. There are four forces and only four. Energy is equivalent of matter Einstein., yet you have found another? Wow, write your paper, get peer reviewed and collect your million dollar Nobel Laureate prize. No one said, particles could be rearranged to their past state, such as Le Passe demon. Pls, educate yourself
Anyone who ever brings up this "great filter", never gives any kind of solid explanation how a civilization will suddenly be wiped out as they get more technologicially advanced. When we are advanced enough to be on multiple planets at a time this will signifigantly increase our chances of survival. Even a planet ending event will not wipe us out. And the more planets we populate the lower and lower the chances of our extinction gets.
The Beasts run, escape out there ... and get caught by the Predators ... The Magicians observe, escape in there and disappear ... and get caught by Itself ... ... Too, Escape to Outside had never been the only option for the beasts ...
There is an explanation, simply put. A species advances, technology get more advanced and can get more dangerous further increasing chance to self destruct. It's a idea that has a lot of holes though. That's for sure.
The universe is a dream, and life is all that really exists. There is no other way to explain all the evidence. Certainly a physical theory can't do it. It's amazing how people on this show can pretend to be smart when they are so utterly clueless.
@@deedhesi8014, The Vedas explain that these bodies are a part of the dream, but we are actually parts of reality and have chosen to try to enjoy immersing ourselves in the dream, in pursuit of desires that are otherwise incompatible with reality. It's like playing a MMORPG, where you're part of the game in one way and not part of the game in another way.
Yup. What baffles me is how some viewers of this show exalt the intellectual fools whom only talk about what they cannot understand. Mythology, science, scriptures....philosophy, metaphysics, theology should all align only because they're the same or One in the same.
I don’t understand the assumption that an intelligent civilization would want to colonize the galaxy. It would take far more resources on a planet to send out colony ships than it would save by reducing the number of organisms on the planet. Moreover, it would take hundreds, maybe thousands of years to get to even nearby solar systems. Who would agree to take such a trip, since they would never reach their destination in a life time?
Its because we naturally apply things that we have to others, like curiosity, its natural to assume an advanced civilization will want to to spread and discover, but obviously that could not be the case and we are pretty unique.
@@peacefindersimply5001 While curiosity can be a powerful motivator, that does not explain why an intelligent species would colonize other planets, since it would be far easier to send out unmanned probes. Moreover, there would be so much time and space involved in colonizing another star system that the organisms living there would effectively be a different species than the one that originally sent out the colony ship. It would be like creating your own aliens. The Fermi Paradox can be easily explained by pointing out a number of erroneous assumptions it is based upon, especially the assumption any species would want to or even be capable of colonizing other star systems.
@@peacefindersimply5001 OK, that is worth considering as an explanation for colonizing other solar systems, although creating space stations where organisms could live would be far easier and cheaper.
Bostrom is hands down one of the most important thinkers of our time.
This is the best channel on youtube, but extremely underrated. All the guests without exception are of the highest caliber.
I half agree because event horizon is probably the best imo, however this is a really good channel 👍🏻
Sooner or later free thinking will be banned. For now I will continue to watch!
@@mdmmysocialmedia254 truth crushed to earth, will always rise again!
@@alanbrady420 nice channel, I just checked it out 👌
@@mohammedphilonous6856 brilliant mate 👍🏻
As life doesn't come from matter but matter comes from life, so complexity doesn't come from simplicity but simplicity comes from complexity, and nothing comes from something as darkness comes from light. The problem with the materialistic minds is that they see everything topsyturvied.
Interesting. This brings about the question of what is truly life? We've become so accustomed to thinking about life coming from matter, that we often don't consider that just maybe life was always hear and matter came after or was created by life.
Simplicity comes from complexity, to me this sounds like its like saying there was not beginning, anything at all is simply a simple part of a bigger complexity and always for however far you go in either direction(for everything, time, size etc...).
Delving further into your comment, you mention nothing comes from something, is this equivalent to saying you can only have the idea of nothing after you have something? I think i get what you mean, you compared it to darkness comes from light.
All these have one thing in common, you need a conscious observer to define something.
Steady, steady...any proof for those wild assertions?
@@johannuys7914 nope, just thoughts that could lead to something provable later
Can the rapid development of humanity be explained naturally, or some external influence needed that would mean a more advanced intelligent life exists?
Nick is great, I love to listen to him
Is the universe discriminative to life and mind? I see that it is the same thing. Where is life, where is mind. Where is the universe -- is it without or within, God. Life seems to pervade the universe like light does with the air, you cannot see illumination, it allows you to see. You cannot see life and it is within and around. Is mind other than life, are these other than the Universe?
Atomists divide everything to make since of this place here.
The truth is One. Heat, gavity, electricity, magnetism, light -- One.
Why would the universe be other than life and mind -- without life and mind there is no universe.
Yes, the Mind, the Life, the real Living, is unassailable, and so like invisible! The Life (God) can never appear in science, science is its tool for self intervention for reason of self transformation and realization. Science is, like religion, a way of self alienation, in both the subject of knowledge steps each in a specific way next to itself, for reason of self intervention - or short: for growth. So to say: We "buy" our knowledge with renunciations in thinking. Or in other words: the "lawmaker" substracts itself to get the isolated "laws"! The God that "will come" means the Life that will have once fully realized itself, the point in far far future, spoken with Max Planck, where science and religion will meet - at their common goal! But science is not full thinking, has nothing to do with the truth and sense, is not even world explanation, and is not self-recognition!
Ok, but not necessary. Homo sapiens, even when began 1m years ago is steel very young species and culture. What if condition of developing higher skills/tools (survive next millions years) demands higher morality - only peaceful race can last ? What if the base is love?
Always a pleasure to hear Nick Bostrum's thoughts.
One thing I like about Lawrence kuhn is he is ready to listen to everyone.
Unless you are being obtuse or nonchalant. Then he will dig.
The answer seems obvious. Earth is exquisite, intelligent life is not common. And this universe itself appears to be some kind of garden.
It’s a beautiful, frightening and certainly not original concept, expressed in a myriad of ways since the dawn of humanity. The universe is under no obligation to explain itself further, so we get all kinds of excuses and imaginative explanations to tell each other. Some explanations are simple and graceful allegory, many are twisted human perversion used to take advantage. It’s also painfully obvious that we’re evolving animals battling our own psychology.
I really appreciate how Nick elaborates on these super complex conceptual frameworks, yet in a way that feels like common sense.
Hopefully the Webb telescope will provide some answers to this.
Doubt it, we need a knew approach, but that's just a guess obviously.
@@peacefindersimply5001 you never know what’s out there👽
If the human mind(s) is a product of this universe, how amazing is it that this is how the "universe" evolves into a stage that to have an urge to understand itself.
it's all i've been able to think about recently, absolutely fascinating....
Seems to me, there is more than one great filter. There was, for example, a huge gap of time before first life and microbes emitting oxygen as waste into the atmosphere. Another for bacteria and archaea to combine as a chimera, and successfully become a eukaryotic organism. Then another before they became specialized cells in a multi celled organism. After that and before that really, climate had a strong say in how and how fast life was going to develop. If at all. It seems there was an easier slide to get from the Cambrian explosion to us, well, loosely speaking. These were all filters. And of course, I am not even mentioning events such as volcano fields on steroids, or a particular asteroid 66 million years ago,
And now it seems, we are providing ourselves quite a potent filter to our own existence, be it by nuclear war, or climate change that may already have us by the huevos. Or, if we are lucky, just slowing us done for some hundreds or thousands of years.
I have found myself hoping that some sentient life out there in the cosmos may get past what we seem to be bringing down on ourselves. But very recently, it has also occurred to me to root for the home team, damnit! If we are our own Great Filter, then by hook or crook, I'm wanting us to survive ourselves, and become sophisticated enough to combine our intellectual capacity with wisdom, instead of knowingly cause our own misery and perhaps, extinction.
Agree... 1) Even the simplest life is incredibly complex certainly not something that will automatically pop up anywhere conditions are favorable. 2) There very easily could have been an asteroid a little too big, nearby supernova, flyby with another star etc., at any time in the last few billion years that could have sent us back to square 1. 3) We are only about a billion years away or so from the sun becoming too hot. What if evolution usually takes twice as long, or more? Those are just a few, and there are many others as well.
I agree. We are here by mere chance and I mean incredible chance of improbabilities. But because anything that can happen most likely does happen somewhere, at some time in our reality. So, for the same reason Eternal Inflation theory solves the fine tuning problem, the theory has its own challenges such as infinities. I believe they're on the right track in String Theory in finding a unified theory, however, the biggest challenge resides within experimental physics. We have limitations because of a number of roadblocks, the event horizon is one, the energies required to go deeper in reduction of QFT is another.
Want some sad take on the filter? One day people would face that our mind, that we so proud of, is just an excessive function of survival. Evolution's bizzare whirlwind. Some day we inevitably will win against our best friends - fear, pain and death. We will take the full control of our fate. An average human being would live as long as it likes and leave this world whenever it likes. You will control your pain receptors, depression inducing mechanisms, your physique, your looks, your IQ level. You will re-upload yourself, if you unfortunately manage to die. You'll comfortably live your best life as long as you want. Do your art, science or a LIVE reaction podcast, whatever.
Also as a basic human right of that era, you will have some sort of a very special button inside you. The button with many protections and authorizations. If you push it, you are gone forever. There will be no scenario, where anything may stop you from doing so, other than your own will.
At last, we will finally stop surviving at the Golden Age of humanity. And then your mind will go out through the same door which your tail once went off. It won't be needed anymore. Just keeping be there will be too much of an unnecessary effort. Some days you would find a reason to go on, some others you won't. And there will be nothing to stop you from closing your eyes: nor pain, nor fear, not even curiosity.
Ofcourse, you may try to avoid that with some restrictions. These days we use religion and law for that matter. But ultimately, some day, we will get there, to the dawn of happy ending.
Or, you can believe in existential nihilism. There can be "meaning" but there is no "purpose". BTW, who says human subjective consciousness can be uploaded to a hard drive? A lot of wild off the chart speculation. Last point. The filter in my belief is ahead of us and yet not too far. Perhaps a short number of years. Just look at what one particular world power just did.
@@Ascendlocal I'm not sure if I get everything you said. I barely care if human consciousness may be uploaded. I just think that people live, because there are carrots and sticks for that purpose, but we already know it's principle. It's a matter of time for sticks to be removed and carrots exhausted.
Put an immortal person into a small dark box, isolated from everything for a 100 years or so. When you'll open it, there would be a living husk of that person. His mind would leave him decades ago. This happens in real life to people that were trapped in isolation for a long period. I wonder, where their beautiful mind and soul go in these cases, even though their bodies are still ok? Someday the whole world and everything beyond will become this small box for a person. It won't hurt. It will be like...I don't know, like watching the clouds before falling asleep. And everytime you blink, eons would pass, until you won't be able to determine if you're still watching.
@@dmitrychirkov4206 well, I certainly don’t understand what you’re saying. Sticks and carrots? Is that a metaphor for finite resources? You interject nihilism, nirvana or both? What happened to the departed mind and soles? Uh, death is oblivion perhaps. No perception of time passes because you’re no longer conscious, let alone, alive. You simply cease to exist. Whew…have a nice day.
my theory is the universe and consciousness has ALWAYS existed. no beginning, and there will never be an end.
Totally agree - Infinity.
@@deedhesi8014 makes perfect sense - and to anyone who says but there has to be something that started it all - i'd argue that there is no need for a 'creator' if something has ALWAYS existed..matter can be neither created nor destroyed...you go back and back and back and back for infinity...
Forget about it.
The Theory of Universal Functions ... is the scientific explanation of the Sir Issac Newton's Watchmaker Analogy.
Everything makes sense when you accept matter, energy, space & time and the Laws of physics are FUNCTIONS ... and understand what a Function is & its origin.
Go on. Fully define the Function Category using data from KNOWN functions and determine the origin of anything that is a Function.
There is a reason why there is no evidence that the Universe & Life have a NATURAL origin.
Science is actually all about discovering & understanding all the functions in the Universe, how they interact and their possibilities/limitations.
@@Dion_Mustard Something can always exist and have a creator, thats also logical. In fact if it is infinite then its likely there is a creator which is similar to the theory we are in a hologram or simulation. If it can be done, then it will be done infinity times making it almost impossible to not be in a simulation or within some kind of universe that was created. Does that make sense? I hope i explained that well.
@@peacefindersimply5001 kind of yes :)
Your guest is assertively ignoring a VAST amount of evidence, some now provided by our very own government and military, that we have been and are currently being "visited" with some considerable frequency. This seemingly deliberate stubbornness, common with academics in particular, is happily now beginning to melt away as the data become more widely-shared. Finding this blinkered attitude so firmly in place with accomplished individuals such as Dr. Bostrom nonetheless continues to surprise me since it rather clearly risks chronic misdirection of resources and attention.
Maybe the great filter is AI.
But I suspect that filters differ in early life development, and might be the same among highly advanced civilizations.
Life goes on forever because it is driven to, a built in survival mode, much needed for such delicate matter. Why is that?
Fascinating implications.
The universe has no choice in the matter. Never did, never will.
Title is spelled incorrectly. It's Bostrom, not Bostrum.
Finding life will be our doom; the great filter is ahead of us?
Maybe we humans are just the “First Ones” in the entire universe??.....
(ie, there is No great filter.)
It's not that it "must". It's just that it naturally DOES.
What's the difference? Isn't the force of "natural law" a must?
Yes, but there is one but, it's just s theory and doesn't mean anything
Without light and warmth (love) coming from the sun/son...this planet is nothing but a spec of dust floating in a vast ocean of darkness and emptiness.
But with light and warmth (love) coming from the sun/son...this spec of dust transforms into a paradise planet lifeboat...bristling with miraculous works of fine art called "life".
Every miraculous work of fine art called "life" is so rare and unique that each one happens only once in time, space and dimension.
Let me counter.. It's not about us. That's really hubristic thinking.
@@Ascendlocal Agreed, Many people have a tendency to center our selves in the universe.
Rerun episode.
I like Nick's accent 🥰😁
Love me some Bostrum; the bloke is absolutely brilliant.. deserving of honorary knighthood. 💙
8:13 they've been here already and left the losers behind--we're it!
Some people can't get beyond "what if ?" and remain positive. "Because it is" is more important than "Why?".
Its Bostrom ( Niklas Boström).... many fans of Bostrum here is see
Nick Bostrum is fascinating to watch and the things he says has you thinking about al kind’s of crazy things.
I have a plausible explanation why advanced civilizations don't colonize: they might just not plan that far ahead. Colonizing even only the next planet would take at least several decades and human decision makers never plan ahead more than about 50 years and very seldom more than about 10 years. Especially I don't know a lot of big budget projects that didn't finish within 10 years or at least partially finish and create some output (profit, scientific results or things like that) within that timeframe.
the cologne cathedral
build time: 632 years
That was my first thought when he said that. Nick Bostrum came up with a process of colonizing the galaxy but its a no go process. There is no leader that would sanction a project that would take a million years. There is other intelligent life in our galaxy it is just interstellar travel and colonizing the galaxy is not feasibility.
@@seriousbeatsam9386 it was already partially usable after about 20 years. Also their original plan was probably to finish it in about 100 years but they ran out of money several times including a 282 years long period where no work at all was done. For comparison: the much bigger St. Peter's Basilica was finished in 120 years although even it had slow building phases.
@@rfvtgbzhn I think it's a good example of how a mega project over several generations would pan out.
a quick start with lots of resources to get something usable.
And then you have to deal with things like the lack of resources or people loose interest in funding it.
Not every generation may be so passionate about building something they never see finished.
It goes through a lot of hands,mistakes will be made,the project stalls for hundreds of years or even gets partially teared down and rebuild again.
Of course there are a lot more good examples like the great wall.
Some are never finished and left to rot,and some come out as a great success after all these years.
I like to look at these projects of the past to get a feel of how we may tackle big projects in the future and what problems we may expect.
We haven't really searched for existing life on other planets.
We are just eager finding out the beginning of the universe.
Life at the beginning could only be concentrated at a small area of a planet, that's why we need to observe the whole planet.
Our deserts and oceans would be dead objects for aliens.
This guy's great in Zombieland and Zombieland 2.
Life produces universe as its own structure! It's that Life, the real Living, the unassailable Subject of knowledge, the Mind, that can principially never appear in science and in empirical world, that can pull itself even out of the nothing, - organizing, transforming and realizing itself! For that we are something like "living building bricks"!
The one who will be in the end is the same who was in the beginning!
Philosophical thinking. However, your position ignores the known, proven nature of Emergence as well as the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, order to disorder over time and until heat death.
I wonder just after the black hole era when the last black holes evaporate through hawking radiation, when a boltzman brain arises? And considering the universe will be in a conformal geometry phase, instead of all that radiation spread out, it will be interacting, and possibly the energy source of the boltzman brain.
'Topology' ... What is 'big'?? .... What is 'tiny'? ... Once, One believes that existence is measured by apes perceptions ... the 'big' and the 'tiny' will beautifully enclose those fragmented ones into nothingness ...
Nick Bostrom may have seen too many SF movies ( then is good for him ). Imho life / the universe is teaming with subtle messages coming to us, suggesting there is intelligent life besides 'us'. One favorite pointer seems the location of the WOW ! signal.
Science does not ( yet ) have the intelligence - no offence - or tools to recognize that Ohio might have been consciously chosen [ by ET / our celestial friends ], to send us 'the letter' called the WOW ! signal, in August 1977.
The fact that the WOW ! signal was delivered in 72 seconds, the exact amount of time for ET to leave us a message ( ! ), the fact that the two strongest ot the six ( 6, E, Q, U, J, 5 ) parts that formed this signal seem to point at what all great human teachers are suggesting :
That : life is a Quest for Us .. etc..
A personal favorite of all pointers is that the location of 'the WOW !' was Ohio, [ O hi O ] ...
Such simple tool ( humor ) will hopefully in the near future elegantly lead us into a direction we may ( almost ) all understand.
A Universe without life is just a fuzzy zone of probability and energy. Like GTA 5 running with the TV turned off. It exists but it's just a mathematical program running in its own space and time. A bunch of zeros and one's flying about with no form. It doesn't really exist the way a human would define existence. But in once sense it exists.
The stage is set! But why set the stage? Oh ofcourse, for the people! The universe is but a stage, apparently one of many! Ofcourse it was created for us!!! Do you not know who you REALLY are?
i love this guy
Nick had to dig deep to respectfully answer an impossible opening question. An untrue question and almost cohersive. Charmingly deflected. The principle of entropy states life inevitably ends. The anthropic principle does not counter this. For the part it does, maybe, it is not considered science by many. And those who do like Susskind limit that to the realm of quantum mechanics and string theory. And that is theoretical physics. Why not accept the openess of us knowing we are but very well might not be soon and it depending on us now? Our importance in the greater scheme will appear when we find the balance...if we find the balance. And not assume the balance.
Average species life expectancy is around 2 to 3 Mio years for mammals. So sapiens expectancy into the future only spans a couple of hundred thousand years without technology. With technology this span will not lengthen but shorten, as we will evolve us beyond our own species. The alternativ would be ultra slow technological development over say a hundred million years. This would mean that books were invented by the first Neanderthals and we would be about to invent the first steam machine now. The universe has shown that from a certain intelligence level on technological evolution is exponential. So these scenarios about humans like us colonizing the galaxy over hundreds of millions of years have a probability of almost zero. We would have to have a species that is intelligent like us but have no progress and no new thoughts and ideas over millions of years and follow an ultimately senseless spread like viruses without any purpose at all AND without evolving/mutating at all, because nothing would be achieved, as nothing ever only slightly impactful happens during the spread so it continues for an eternity. This would mean that nothing will be able to change our minds on millions of planets over millions of years, and there would be no technological progress, in all the factions who spread, and there would be eternal consensus to expend energy to spread. Likelihood is practically zero. This thesis is an eternal today-egocentric view of the universe. The universe very quickly dispenses with any species that stops evolving but for a few. And the more intelligent the species or sub-species the shorter its life span. Look at the many hominid species. We are cursed to evolve ever more quickly and that means our species life span might end in a couple of thousand years.
Others are probably non material because over 95 percent of everything is something dark.
Non material? Are you speaking of dark matter and/ or dark energy. Please clarify
It's kinda insane that a person who recognises all the stars and the planets has so narrow logic about life outside earth. It's obvious that our life on earth isn't unique. It's most reasonable that our short 200 year development and understanding about existence is short. It's absolutely obvious that intelligent civilisations that exists millions of years are like gods to us and they don't interfere to our life!
Mr Bostrum is totally right, it would be very bad news to find life on the nearest planet to earth, that would mean that life is very common, but as we do not observe colonizers, then colonization is impossible.
Does advanced intelligent life simulate new form(s) of advanced intelligent life, similar to biological life reproduces more biological life?
These ideas could disenchant us from continuing, we should start work hardly on real and tangible science 🧬
If in the infinite time of the Universe no life has evolved nearby and become able to traverse space and make themselves known to us.
If life has evolved very far away in an infinite universe and become able to traverse space even so they could not make themselves known to us.
To smart caring and intelligent. Also anxious old bostrom. Creative connections. Yo yo
The deeper question is, is it possible for a universe to propagate having conciousness as a fundamental, or as a separate phenomena to matter. ie, independent of matter.
Would the fact that intelligent human appeared on the scene so recently (thousands to tens of thousands of years ago) say anything about there being more advanced intelligent civilizations in galaxy?
are you talking about civilization or just when humans appeared? Humans have been around at least for hundreds of thousands of years, but civilization a fraction of that, likely at least 10k years.
Is your question referring to "seeding". Well, after reviewing the DOD released videos and their statement...who knows? Perhaps.
In vain I search the comments for signs of intelligent life. What a lot of whack-offery.
Of course it must. Otherwise you would not be discussing and we would not be watching your discussion
5:45 the filter of intelligence or humanity 🤔
There are possibilities of multiple filters, a suitable environment is one, sustaining the environment forever is another...
@@ManiBalajiC what is the nature of these filters, entropic or anthropic...
@@r2c3 Entropic obviously, these are Only needed if there is an life.
@@ManiBalajiC later in the discussion, the speaker draws attention to anthropogenic causes... so basically, is it just mechanical that we can predict by understanding the natural laws of physics or could it be designed as to limit a certain outcome, that we might currently not be aware of ...
Lets talk about conciousness field & conciousness plane dimension
Do you mean plane? Like dimensional planes?
@@peacefindersimply5001 ur right
I disagree with absolutely everything this dude says. I believe he is shallow and misguided
We have knowledge of life on one star-ours. So 100% of the stars we know about have life. There are 200 billion trillion stars in our universe. The number of stars that have life is no doubt is a very high number. Simple math.
That makes no sense. You are saying both there are billions and trillions of stars and that our sun is the only star we know about.
@@jordan_8329 Our star is the only one we can make an informed opinion on.
No. Here we go again with the ONE universe sample flaw.
How might life continue forever, as in final anthropic principle?
God ,Jesus Christ is the filter before, right now, and after.
Not at all. Our complex life has been designed.
If we found life on Mars I'd think it would be much more likely that it would be evidence of panspermia rather than independent development of life. However at the moment it looks like we are the only life in the solar system, which makes sense considering how perfect the Earth is for developing life.
Perfect for the type of life we have. We only have the life on earth to think about and compare, evidence recently supports that carbon seems to be by far the best still and silicon not near as good for a base for life as originally thought.
It needs the whole universe to create this perfect place and me! You can't take something out!
I really like your immaculate clothings, not to mention your enlightening videos!
no news is indeed good news then
With pockets of increasing complexity and structure in an expanding universe of increasing entropy, might be more complex and intelligent life that is more efficient than human, for example smaller and more advanced (like computers progressed); just as animals and humans were an improvement in complexity and intelligence on dinosaurs and other life? Maybe there is advanced intelligent alien life that is so small that we will have difficult time detecting?
Yes, of course. It's called AI. These UAPs the DOD admits to are indeed at a level of intelligence that far exceeds human technologies and possible incomprehensible to human minds. I don't believe they contain sentient beings but though simple postulating, they are obviously controlled by this higher level of intelligence.
Entropy increases to disorder, not order. Ripping apart complexity. Complexity & order is temporal within the 2nd law. It ends with Heat Death of the universe.
Didn't understand the filter problem
Ha....back then when he still had hair🤫🤭
Must the universe spawn rats and slugs ?
It already did! Question answered.
The mind projects the universe.
If not, then no. Total accident an we could be the only sentient beings. If yes, then id say its all conciousness.
Our house pets are sentient. So are bugs. It can be said that trees are sentient too. You should look the word up.
His name is "Bostrom", not "Bostrum".
Excellent Program . My Most Favorite
Excelente video. Excelente but not inteligent. It isnt Science because possibilities figuret out Universe civilization from he minds is zero. He minds looks like magazine Sci fi. Science fake.
Wake ‘n bake level entertainment right here
Can another "bigbang" happen out of nowhere and blow us to pieces?
Funny you should ask. Yes, there's one coming Thursday evening, 11 Eastern, 8 Pacific.
It's like two small ants are talking about the creation of God's... This universe.... For scientists Gods=Aliens..
In a way yes, but God is in us, God is in everyone, but not everyone knows that! God is the Life and the point in far far future where Life will have fully realized itself, with all its promised capabilities! For that we are something like "living building bricks". 😉
For humans, God(s) are man made so that the delusional can wish to survive death. On the other hand, Aliens would be real.
@@Ascendlocal Science can never answer metaphysical questions, questions about the whole! But the belief in Aliens and the Ufo hype is a lack of thinking, and a lack of spirituality and a longing for transcendence! (to understand just look at the comments after mine!) Like science is not full thinking, it's a shortened, dimmed, shadowed, instrumental thinking!
@@Ascendlocal yes aliens are real, those who Stabilised humanity and gave direction for human race... But those aliens are not just aliens... They are our gods ..
@@neffetSnnamremmiZ well, your postulate is not only unfalsifiable but is even less than metaphysical. It’s wish thinking. Other comments? So what? 80% of Americans believe in (their) God. That doesn’t make it true. Just that no one wants to consider truth, that no one survives death. But here’s a fact you can’t deny. The second law of thermodynamics. Moving forward in time, everything moves to disorder, aka, oblivion. It’s called the Heat death of the universe, yours and mine, reality. Unless you find another “force” in QFT, you have no rationale argument.
I suggest that it's as possible that human animals will live to see an afterlife, as will alligators, or bears, or elephants, or mosquitoes, and that if human animals go extinct ... all the religious tales will also go extinct, and other animals will continue to reproduce and suffer, which always was, and always will be ... nature's way.
Afterlife? Please provide us your postulate on just what that entails. Don’t tell me you haven’t given that some thought. So, by all means, give us your glimpse into this afterlife world.
@@Ascendlocal I don't believe in an afterlife for human souls, as I don't believe that humans have souls.
If devotees used the word "thoughts" rather than the word "souls" ... I suggest it would sound ridiculous, when human animals die, to say "His or her thoughts will either go flying off to heaven ... or to hell ... or to reincarnate."
Without the word "soul," there couldn't be any religion. All stories are based on what the soul is thinking, and what the soul is doing, and where the soul came from, and where the soul is going after death of the physical body. Fortunes have been made by theologians who taught that the soul is a gift from God, and that women must never have abortions, because abortions offend God's gift to humanity. Evolution of the soul is a huge seller in religion. It means that your soul is ever upgrading and will hopefully soon make the grade of God's "entire" approval of enlightenment and salvation … or … that in the afterlife something horrible could happen to your soul. If you remove the word "soul" from religion, you will not have anything but ground zero.
Its Nick BOSTROM
He said peter out lol
This interview is fantastic
I agree. No more no less.
Nick writes his own name in english as Bostrom (his name in swedish is Niklas Boström), not Bostrum. You know, english lacking the last three ÆØÅ of the alphabet, here ø/ö ,that we use in Scandinavia.
One alien came to me once for sure. Not long after i was watching two Nasa guys in white rope,sitting with alien in the middle . They were making some experiments on him. I was so sorry for the alien, i started crying like a baby. I couldn't stop... when alien came shortly after, of course it was logic to me, that he came to show me he is ok. What would you think..
It must.
♥️❤️🙏❤️♥️
If God gets bored he will just shake the etch a sketch and see what weirdos he can watch next time around.
The universe can’t spawn life or mind.
Well, it already did. We are here
@@peterm5187 Show me matter or energy making and directing themselves. Show me magical morphing monkeys.
I admire Kuhn's sincerity and quest for knowledge and answers, but once again we come away with just about nothing.
I feel that. His style frustrated me after a while, but now I've come full circle and deeply appreciate it. Because, in order to find meaningful answers, you first have to ask: what are the meaningful questions? When so much of this stuff blends the metaphysical, the naturalistic & everything in between, one must tread very lightly. Origins, Meaning, Mortality... these are the questions humanity has yet to surmount...
Wonderful, isn't it?
Well, that would be as expected because some questions can never be answered. Why is there something rather than nothing? Proof of a multi-verse. Why entropy was so low at the big bang, odds beyond any of the "fine tuning" values. Roger Penrose says magnitude of 10 to the 10, to 10, to the 123. He said it makes the Anthropic Principal obsolete. I mean, this is both scary & exhilarating stuff
To know we don't know is wiser than scientists who believe they already know.
What is the relationship between consciousness and life? Are they truly synonymous with each other? Can one exist with out the other? In order to really answer this we really need to find a truly universal definition of life. We currently define it based on only one perspective of life on earth. Could we spot life and think we don't because it doesn't fit what we think life is? Mind is easier to study because it within the realm of science, it can be tested much easier then consciousness. I strongly believe we need to be careful of what the difference is between mind, self-awareness, and consciousness.
The Mind, the Self, the Subject of knowledge, the Life, the real Living, can never appear in empirical world! It's unassailable, and so like invisible! That's the difficulty with self recognition that it is exactly about the (in principle) invisible!
@@arletottens6349 Let me trying to guess what you mean by that. Basically life is anything that organizes thing around it, making it simpler? Or did you mean something else?
@@neffetSnnamremmiZ basically, life is a leakage of a higher dimension and doesn't truly exist here, would explain why conscious completely loses us.
I disagree. Only you know you have subjective consciousness. You can't know that I do, and I can't know that you do. Why do you think the "Hard Problem" coined by David Chalmers is still front and center? Ed Witten, thinks we'll never prove it mathematically. Giulio Tononi, has his integrated Information Theory
@@arletottens6349 Yeah i know what it means, yeah that does make sense.
It's probably hard to live without the natural FEELING OF COSMOS. When did you look at the Milky Way last time, Mr. Nick Bostrum? Do it, please. And, perhaps, the feeling of cosmic harmony will help you bring new knowledge to humanity, not so pessimistic, as you have today.
GREAT COSMIC HARMONY, Mr. Nick Bostrum BUT NOT the GREAT FILTER.
Philosopher, linguist Marina Sidorenko.
That's equivalent too looking at a tree or tv. The milky way is just a finite part of the cosmic whole. What you did was not something special, but you did a sort of placebo effect, but this doesn't make it not real, you just found the right tool that worked for you, this is why when recommending things like this it will often not work because everyone needs to at least have found the step before looking at it that way, and that's to simply be open to the presence or the feeling of the cosmos. Simply put a person can only move forward if they understand that there is a way to move forward.
Nick gives the most honest answers.
so he knows?? but, remember what he said "I think". so he is only guessing!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what I think; iF there is an intelligent life form out there that is 1 milling years more "advanced" than people on Earth they just could be traveling where they wish to. now, what if they were 10 millions or 70 million or 300 million years more advanced.
thats assuming a alien species advances that way and at that speed. Logically it would make sense aliens would think differently therefore the path they take with technology could be entirely different, obviously this only applies to intelligent alien life going by our made up definition of what intelligence even is. For example a alien species could be extremely advancing in biology while never bothered to travel in space.
We keep assuming an intelligent alien species will advance their civilization in a similar manner.
Here’s a question to ponder. How many explanation marks in punctuation does it take to affirm that you really, really, really “mean” it? I don’t care who they are, and I do believe they exist, they are doing it by science, albeit a science we have not yet embarked upon.
@@peacefindersimply5001 I see your point, but you didn't add in the fact that there could possibly be millions even billions of more advanced ETs out there.
@@Ascendlocal explanation marks, how many are enough?; I say 15, but I know some one that says 20 is the thing.
but what thing I ask.
*He doesn’t take into account quantum teleportation. I would assume that life forms that know how to teleport are immortal. If there is life out there (which there most likely is considering the countless accounts of UFOs and how many exoplanets have been found and the hundreds of billions of stars amongst hundreds of billions of galaxies within the observable universe [which seems infinite]) and they know how to teleport (despite humanity only barely discovering what quantum teleportation is recently), they must know how to teleport back and forth from earth and present themselves as UFOs. If you can teleport particles, you can teleport diseases out of you. I’d assume that at this point, all they do is use their minds and not technology. They must be peaceful because the concept of being able to go to war automatically goes obsolete because your enemy could teleport away from the violence as much as you can.*
I agree. Any far advanced civilization would be peaceful because we don't have anything they need. They would just watch us for entertainment or help us along as a natural obligation to other life forms. Since being alive binds us.
@@arletottens6349 *I definitely do know that they know how to teleport - they’ve had æons to discover all of this.*
@@arletottens6349 what's possible is redefined by our understanding as we learn about the universe we live in. It is naive to claim anything is impossible when living in a world where man flies through the sky in aluminum vehicles and we can power entire cities by splitting atoms
Enough with the pseudo science.
There is a reason why there is ZERO scientific evidence for the Universe & Life having a NATURAL origin 14 billion or 4 billions years ago. It is assumed that a star, planet, moon or other cosmic matter & energy were naturally formed given the vast size of the universe and enough time. This is bad science ... as they have all gone straight to the Conclusion step in the scientific method then continuously cycle through each refining the Conclusion, and seeking a hypothesis and the data that supports the Conclusion.
The Question about the origin of the Universe & Life .... has no been addressed in the correct manner by the community, but instead almost all hypothesis support the narrative that it is a fact the the Universe has a natural origin 14 billion years ago and Life 4 billion.
Natural selection only causes variation within a species or genus. It is not proof the mechanism driving the evolution of life from a common ancestor. To this day, ... there is no evidence in the fossil record of evolutionary transitions forms & precursors. But the Fossil recored is consistent with an explosion of complex life at various distinct levels of the geologic column. All the Coal in the world was made at the same time and in the same layer. This is clear evidence of a worldwide catastrophic event in the past, not only laying down the coal layer but also the fossil records. Radiometric Dating can not be used to determine absolute dates of objects, because it assumes to know the starting parent & daughter isotope concentration, there was no inheritance or contamination, and the decay is constant. C14 has fully decays in 50 000 years but diamonds are said to be millions of years old have detectable C14 in them. Fresh lava rocks of known age ... are consistently showing ages of hundreds of thousands & millions of years old Dinosaur fossils have been found with soft tissue when it is suppose to be tens of millions years old.
Again. Most believe it is a fact that the Universe & Life had a NATURAL origin 14 & 4 billions years ago ... have just straight to the Conclusion ... and cycles through the scientific method seeking a hypothesis and data that supports the conclusion
They are routinely violating the laws of physics with their latest hypothesis/theory and not actually following the science or the scientific method.
The Theory of Universal Functions ... obeys the Laws of physics, follows the data & the science, and the Scientific Method. It is the scientific explanation of Sir Issac Newtons observation that the physical Universe is like a finely tuned Watch. Newton did not make the logical Hypothesis from his "Watchmaker Analogy" to be tested and evaluated in the scientific method. But is is clear what the Hypothesis would be for the Universe being like a Watch or machine.
The Universe is a Function, composed entirely of Functions ... and ... requires specific matter, energy, space, time, information & laws of physics in order to exist & to function. This hypothesis, is easily confirmed to be a science Theory, by simply fully defining the Function Category using all data about known Functions.
All Functions have a purpose or role ... process inputs into outputs ... and are made by an intelligence who must provide the required information for any function to exist & to function.
Now can you see why there is ZERO scientific evidence that that Universe & all life have a NATURAL origin.
Matter, energy, space, & time and the Laws of Physics are ... Functions.
Science is actually all about discovering & understanding all the Functions in the Universe, and how they interact with each other & their possibilities/limitations.
The Theory of Universal Functions .... is good science ... and is derived from Newtons' Watchmaker analogy observation. The Universe & our existence makes complete sense once you follow the science, and view everything as Functions ... made by an intelligence for a purpose.
Quantum teleportation kills the original and creates a copy so I am pretty sure no one would want to to it.
I think if we found life somewhere on another planet that would be bad news for believers, because that would mean that life itself is nothing but a material product of a planet. That consciousness is material. This scenario is impossible because the unique thing about life on earth is that in function, life operates insulated and detached from the ravages of the planet , And life only survives by feeding on the byproducts of other forms of life. The fact that life is only on earth shows that we are more than just physical material products of a planet
Life existing somewhere else does not make it a merely material phenomenon. It kind of depends if we are talking about a bacteria or other sentient beings. Even if there are other sentient beings on other worlds it would still seem that is very rare and special.
@@jordan_8329 well I could see that point but then that may mean that consciousness itself is universally abstract and exists throughout the universe . But unless we know the nature of the substance(s)of consciousness , the simple physical conditions of any planet should not be relevant to whether or not life like ours exists there. The physical conditions on earth may allow for the flesh , but those conditions remain exactly the same even after the death of the individual flesh
@@jordan_8329 a big IJ in June is a joke that just jjjkio I ij to get I have be
Why is it so hard to admit that we have no way of knowing if there is other life in the universe? What means do we have to identify other civilizations? Even if some other civilization could travel faster than light, what are the odds they would stumble upon this planet on an outside spiral of this galaxy?
Because we can detect things and see some things, its just very very hard, and will just get easier as we get more technologically advanced and hopefully more open to different ways life can be. Basically we can only find them if we can keep trying, that's why.
Maybe there is no extraterrestrial life, possibly this believe is based on totally wrong physical and metaphysical assumptions! But with these projections Life transforms and pushes itself!
This is one of the odder questions in this series. Another way to put it is, does material reality contain the source of non-material reality? Which leads me to wonder "where does Robert think personality is in an atom?" A fairly ludicrous question!
In order to have mind, you have to have life. Yes, life uses material bodies in order to exist, but are those chemical components that make of a body the necessary source of that life? It would seem the answer is pretty obvious. Dead bodies contain the same chemical components of a living body, yes? So why don't they live forever? The atoms continue to exist forever. Obviously, life is quite separate from the form it uses to function in. Which would pretty quickly lead one to conclude that the two are independently sourced.
Dualism is a dead idea (pardon the pun)? You miss one important fact. The difference in a live body and a dead body is the arrangement of its particles. Consciousness is an emergent phenomena from a complex system containing a neural network. You say the atoms continue to exist? Yes, but the complexity no longer does. An arrangement of particles, emergence from complexity.
@@Ascendlocal 🤣🤣
"Arrangement of its particles"? Seriously? According to the dictionary, "life" is defined as the ability to adapt. That means all life has intelligence. Whence cometh this intelligence from an arrangement of particles, pray tell?
I'll bet all the biochemists in the world would not be able to take the particles of an ameba, assemble them together in exactly the same manner as a real ameba, and then be able to cause it to come alive.
No my friend, there is more to reality than just physical matter. Take identical twins for example, by your logic, they should share the same personality, and yet, they do not.
@@ericjohnson6665 the dictionary is your source material? Then read your dictionary and acquire your PhD. There are four forces and only four. Energy is equivalent of matter Einstein., yet you have found another? Wow, write your paper, get peer reviewed and collect your million dollar Nobel Laureate prize. No one said, particles could be rearranged to their past state, such as Le Passe demon. Pls, educate yourself
Anyone who ever brings up this "great filter", never gives any kind of solid explanation how a civilization will suddenly be wiped out as they get more technologicially advanced. When we are advanced enough to be on multiple planets at a time this will signifigantly increase our chances of survival. Even a planet ending event will not wipe us out. And the more planets we populate the lower and lower the chances of our extinction gets.
The Beasts run,
escape out there
... and get caught by the Predators ...
The Magicians observe,
escape in there and disappear
... and get caught by Itself ...
... Too, Escape to Outside had never been the only option for the beasts ...
There is an explanation, simply put. A species advances, technology get more advanced and can get more dangerous further increasing chance to self destruct. It's a idea that has a lot of holes though. That's for sure.
Duh! How about nuclear war destroying an entire civilization? It’s technology. Geezzz
The universe is a dream, and life is all that really exists. There is no other way to explain all the evidence. Certainly a physical theory can't do it.
It's amazing how people on this show can pretend to be smart when they are so utterly clueless.
If the universe is a dream, isn't life then also a part of the same dream??
@@deedhesi8014, The Vedas explain that these bodies are a part of the dream, but we are actually parts of reality and have chosen to try to enjoy immersing ourselves in the dream, in pursuit of desires that are otherwise incompatible with reality. It's like playing a MMORPG, where you're part of the game in one way and not part of the game in another way.
@@PaulHoward108 Lol The Vedas 🤡
Yup. What baffles me is how some viewers of this show exalt the intellectual fools whom only talk about what they cannot understand.
Mythology, science, scriptures....philosophy, metaphysics, theology should all align only because they're the same or One in the same.
@@S3RAVA3LM You clearly have no respect for human reason and intellect. Pretty sad, but not uncommon
I don’t understand the assumption that an intelligent civilization would want to colonize the galaxy. It would take far more resources on a planet to send out colony ships than it would save by reducing the number of organisms on the planet. Moreover, it would take hundreds, maybe thousands of years to get to even nearby solar systems. Who would agree to take such a trip, since they would never reach their destination in a life time?
Its because we naturally apply things that we have to others, like curiosity, its natural to assume an advanced civilization will want to to spread and discover, but obviously that could not be the case and we are pretty unique.
@@peacefindersimply5001 While curiosity can be a powerful motivator, that does not explain why an intelligent species would colonize other planets, since it would be far easier to send out unmanned probes. Moreover, there would be so much time and space involved in colonizing another star system that the organisms living there would effectively be a different species than the one that originally sent out the colony ship. It would be like creating your own aliens. The Fermi Paradox can be easily explained by pointing out a number of erroneous assumptions it is based upon, especially the assumption any species would want to or even be capable of colonizing other star systems.
@@uncommonsensewithpastormar2913 because it's increases likely hood the species will survive, same logic as spreading across a planet.
@@peacefindersimply5001 OK, that is worth considering as an explanation for colonizing other solar systems, although creating space stations where organisms could live would be far easier and cheaper.