The Greeks believed in their Gods at the time! One doesn't see or hear *them* being trashed and ridiculed for those beliefs today! The culture quietly incorporated their Gods/myths and moved on! Or have I got it wrong?
Wasn't till I noticed how Bernie lost that it really hit home. Been grappling with this one for a while. But yeah now it's an issue. I don't care that he lost just how he lost. If the people were against it it would have been understandable but when they are demanding change and then fail to vote for the candidate that aligns with their viewpoint it becomes more obvious. Obviously the I don't know mind point of view is correct but also the belief of all kinds is also fucked up. It's beyond atheism at this point. It encompass belief in all its forms. Fuck nuggets this is wierd.
“Religion has convinced people that there's an invisible man ... living in the sky. Who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn't want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer, and suffer, and burn, and scream, until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you. He loves you and he needs money.” ― George Carlin
@Roddy Rod Statistics actually show that Athiest tend to have a higher knowledge of Religion that actually Religious people. What tends to keep people Religious normally is a lack of knowledge. That is why the lower the education level and less people read in a specific country the higher the rate of Religious people.
Religion is often closely interwoven with culture! One gets so tired of the self-righteous people who constantly feel the urge to stand up and vociferously trash religion and God, but who shortsightedly pay no heed to the corpse of their culture lying rotting next to the toppled statue of God on the battlefield! With no culture/religion to be their strength in numbers extended family, young people are aimlessly wandering around, seemingly lost in a wilderness of no ties! Perhaps religion is still a necessary part of life, especially if it has evolved alongside a civilised culture. It doesn't take much awareness to note that the strongest cultures (in terms of a sense of entitlement and strength in numbers) are those formed around religion and ancestor worship. The weakest? It's not difficult to find the answer, and, sadly, the weakest are being frog-marched to extinction!
@Stand together america lol what? I went to college. No where in college do they teach classes on banning books and destroying statues. You don't think maybe people are just destroying these statues because the persons the statues represent are racist and not people we should celebrate? You don't think maybe books with false information and racist garbage should not be the standard of education? Additionally such books are still allowed to read in private. They just aren't what is promoted. Lol where are you getting your information from? Fox News, Info Wars, Liberty Hangout? Lol my goodness you sound hysterical. Additionally the devil doesn't exist. The concept of the devil character was literally stolen from Religions that came prior to Christianity. Why is the devil of those Religions fake and yours real?
I love Bertrand Russell. Stephen Fry loves Bertrand Russell. Therefore I love Stephen Fry and Stephen Fry loves me. Logic. Or wine. Not sure, but either way I'm happy.
No, faulty logic, you love Bertrand Russel, Stephen Fry loves Bertrand Russell, therefore you you and Stephen Fry love Bertrand Russell. You may still hate Steven Fry. Cheers
Hermione Ziggeraut Fry has not asked himself with an open mind why many Catholics, like myself, enjoy deep peace and joy. He perpetuates what he believes is a fashionable antagonism to the Catholic Church and Judaeo-Christian ethics by extension. I hardly call that an "open mind"; rather, disingenuous and cowardly and arrogant in the extreme.
It's so difficult to find an ethic in life. No matter what God you worship, or principles you practice you will die and you will fear it all your life. The thing that I find frustrating with Stephen Fry is that he has to fit into the British system so there has to be the British approach to philosophic discourse. What I would like to hear is Stephen unedited. His experience as a gay man. In this we hear Stephen's lecture on the semantics of "philosophy" and a smattering of philosophical nomenclature, but all he is doing is retailing secondhand Dawkins or Darwinian fatalism, Continental paganry or "God of the Gaps" apologetics. He is a creature of the British cultural species - but who is he really?
I don't believe in God, but I do think that, if i'm wrong, that God would be proud of the way i've used the intellect and reason which he would have endowed me to form the conclusions I have. I don't think a being that gave everybody free will would have wanted unquestioning, unthinking obedience.
While agree that God's supposed gift of free will and assuming a tyranny is improbable, I think that this "pride" aspect you describe would be highly out of character, Consider that god as mentioned in the old testament is capricious and far from proud of people who defy him. God's priorities are: Belief Total Submission Fear and close mindedness.....
Shane Lyster If those are Gods priorities, then I'm more glad than ever that I'm an atheist. I don't want to spend eternity with a utter twat like that. That God would not be deserving of worship. Hell would, frankly, be preferable.
if god created us and this world why would he let us destroy it and ourselves? but then again would he care as he only took a week to make it? also dinosaurs...
"You can't just say there's a God because the world is beautiful...You have to account for bone cancer in children. You have to account for the fact that almost all animals in the wild live under stress with not enough to eat, and will die violent and bloody deaths. There is is not any way that you can choose just the nice bits and say that means there is a God...The wonder of nature must be taken in its totality. And it is a wonderful thing; it is absolutely marvelous. And the idea that an atheist, or a humanist if you want to put it that way, doesn't wonder and marvel at reality, at the way things are, is nonsensical. The point is, we wonder all the way." --- Stephen Fry: The Importance of Unbelief
@Steven Moore He clearly said that the world is beautiful and is wonderful. But it also has a lot of problems that make it flawed. I don't know if your trying not to understand or are just stupid. The world is great not perfect and for a designer like god who is all powerful and all good to have made it this way is evil. If god is out there he is allowing kids and babies to die, people including children to be raped, and causes natural disasters to kill people and destroy there homes. That is just the tip of the iceberg.
+Omar Malik satan and I are good mates actually, so we'll just have a mad party with cocaine and slags while religious people are up there licking Jesus' chocolate ring. Jokes it's all bollocks anyway
+shaqpopcorn34 Usually when you are proven wrong again and again, you usually don't repeat the same argument. Or erect a strawman. But I guess " though shalt not bear false witness" doesn't matter to shaqpopcorn34
In less than 15 minutes, Stephen Fry provided the highest concentration of highly convincing answers explaining the benefits of being a non-religious non-believer. The point about savoring your life instead of squandering your time for a (likely not occurring) afterlife was so spot on. So many of his erudite and eloquent points were so casually delivered, but immensely powerful. I agree with the others' comments: Stephen Fry is a hero!
+Shahm Shaar Dont put yourself down and dont set people up as heros, your Dad or your friend or the man from your temple / Mosque is probably a better man !
Tweedledumb and Tweedlederp, these two. Yes let's not look up to anyone, surely some random man in your podunk home town who gets all their ideas from a single book will know just as much as a scholar of literature who's pored over classics from across the history of the globe. It isn't as if learning requires effort, right? Sarcasm aside, it's true you ought not put yourself down +Shahm Shaar. Just start reading. At first old books with big concepts feel intimidating but you may be surprised how quickly you can get used to it, and then before you know it there you are becoming truly educated.
I woke early today and pulled on my $300 hiking boots, climbed the mountain at the back of my property and as I summited, witnessed a beautiful sunrise. "God is good," I thought.... Meanwhile in Calcutta a man my age woke up early and looked at his leg stumps, struggled to the street and took up his spot by the gutter with his begging bowl as another beautiful day dawned. "God is good?" he wondered.... The ultimate conceit is to invent in an all-knowing, all-loving god and then to believe that he actually cares about you alone in the unfathomable vastness of the Universe. I can convince myself that he cares for me, but he's got some explaining to do to the Calcutta amputee.
Ah, that's Einstein's theory of relativity in play there! In the same way that in order for the Church to be so rich, there needs to be millions of starving people in Africa with HIV Except that in this example they are more related than normal
God protects and blesses those that have covenant with him. The rest have covenant with the devil. This is a quick answer to your thought. I don't take care of other people's children.
Travis Howett and thus we see a clear example of the way religious belief destroys your ability to empathy and compassion. It is also illogical, as it discounts the indisputable fact, that theists are no less prone to suffering.
@@katelynnehansen8115 Jesus constantly was moved with compassion as well as myself. I was trying to give him a quick answer. Also the Bible is very clear the storms come to the believer and unbeliever alike. All to often the serpent slithers in and bites people and God gets the blame.
@@TheHittman47 Well, if you can put your anger and hatred aside for a second. We believe that God tests everybody differently, and that the kids that die are in a better place. Whereas an atheist would believe that their suffering is meaningless.
Yeah mate good observation, look around you at what people have become with the decline of Christianity. The thread that has held the fabric of Europe together for thousands of years, instilled morals, values and hope, and gave people a cherished collective identity. Nope, throw it all down the crapper because.. Stephen Fry
@@GunnerRDS rubbish. The less religion, the better life gets. No christian calls for slavrry, ganocide, sexual mutilation of children, holy wars and all thar religious crap. Oh less suicide bombers also. Religion. Good riddance
@@ioanpopa9473 Elaborate, you can't just say he is garbage and not offer reasoning behind your comment. My money is on you are not half as educated, intellectual and well-spoken as Stephen.
An open mind is a questioning mind. Do you take everything at face value and believe whatever is said without analysing the facts? Fox News must love you
Very good Q & A session with an educated, articulate, rational man. I especially appreciated his view on philosophy, the afterlife and religion in general.
Mookie Stewart I had to re-watch part of it to know what you're referring to, but, yes, it IS quite a good analogy. I don't know how many times I'd be reading Kant or Nietzsche (or indeed any philosopher), and go "wait...what?", then have to re-read what I'd just read, think about it a bit more, then re-read it to make sure I understood what was being said.
+Blacksmith I kind of agree, he says that some people giving to charity and helping people isn't enough to redeem religion, but completely missed the fact that this is a major area which is poisoned by religion. Lots of people try to give money every single week to charity, but the church hijacks this money and instead of using it to help the poor or give the money to real charities that need it, they use it to maintain their buildings, fund priests, cover up pedophile rings and spread religious propaganda. The Catholic church, a tax exempt company with a bigger annual income than the next five richest companies combined, is not required to say where that money is going, but a few dedicated to charitable works have released such reports and they show that these churches sometimes spend up to 3% of their income on actual charity. And even that charity is suspect, a lot of what they call charity boils down to soup kitchens that force starving people to listen to sermons to eat, missionary work in foreign countries, some water aid because a village you help is more likely to convert, the opposition to women's rights where they are needed most, campaigns to eradicate one of the most effective defense against HIV in areas where HIV is most concerning and dedicated opposition to the best cure for poverty we know, which is the empowerment of women over their own bodies.
+charimonfanboy Thank you for your well formulated comment, they tend to be quite rare on youtube. I think we can agree that there will probably always be some form of corruption when institutionalizing religion. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, I don't think religious institutions gaining power are an exception to that rule. However, my main point was that Fry seems unaware about some reasonable interpretations of religious vieuws on the afterlife that don't nessesarily have anything to do with religious institutions.
I'm left marveling at what kind of country we'd be enjoying if we had more Stephen Frys and George Carlins and less Jimmy Swaggerts and George W. Bushes. The level of mental and moral orthodoxy in our national consciousness is truly disheartening.
@@mariamalhotra8228 As an atheist, I have much peace and joy, I love my family and marvel at the wonders of nature. I am not scared of a tyrant in the sky watching my every move; a representative of atheism didn’t convince primitive tribes in Africa that condoms are evil and multiply the spread of aids in that continent. That’s evil, immoral and despicable.
@@mariamalhotra8228 Being a happy catholic doesn't make yout beliefs true or that the happiness comes from there. People of all walks of life can and do feel that way.
i dont need a god, but apparently he needs me so he sends these boring unintelligent people to knock on my door and stop me in the street, and he has this incessant need for money too which is quite weird. Do these religious burn the donations so noone can come to harm from the evil that is money?
who are you to say they're unintelligent! people like you make ME sick as athiesm is boring and meaningless. LET ME JUST REMIND YOU, just because YOU dont believe in God has absolutely NOTHING to do with intelligence ok so get off of it.
+Tina Smith If someone told you they still believed in Zeus, or that someone else said they believed in the tooth fairy to be real - you would call them stupid. Believing in the Christian God, it really has no more credibility than the previous examples, so it's just as stupid. You can be religious and be intelligent, belief doesn't require intelligence, just requires faith.
madzangels oh fgs! Anyone who puts the tooth fairy in comparison with a creator goes waaaaay down in the level of intelligence ok. The frickin tooth fairy FYI has not been written about, for over 6000 years. The tooth fairy is not described as giving us MORALISTIC guidelines to live by such as 'love your neighbor as yourself'. So sorry, unless you are moraless, then YOU should stick with the immature comparison you made to God. GROW UP. Faith in athiesm is empty, meaningless, mocks our given intelligence as a developing species and is depressing and boring. Faith none the less, so you then are just as flucking stupid as the believers on the other side.
+Tina Smith yep grow up cos believe in god it's so pathetic when are supposed to be smart your bible has no morality they fuck with incest they killed or forgive if u killed but turn to god to ask forgiveness no can't say that u r fairytale book is good
Every word he says I believe to be so true for me. I thought I was the only one that that this way for a long time. As brought up in Catholic culture I could never combine what i thought about life with their teachings. He being super orator and actor is able to express it so eloquently.
"Stations of the Cross According to the method of St. Alphonsus Liguori In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. My Lord Jesus Christ, Thou hast made this journey to die for me with love unutterable, and I have so many times unworthily abandoned Thee; but now I love Thee with my whole heart, and because I love Thee I repent sincerely for ever having offended Thee. Pardon me, my God, and permit me to accompany Thee on this journey. Thou goest to die for love of me; I wish also, my beloved Redeemer, to die for love of Thee. My Jesus, I will live and die always united to Thee. The Way of the Cross First Station JESUS IS CONDEMNED TO DEATH V: We adore Thee, O Christ, and we praise Thee. R: Because by Thy holy cross Thou hast redeemed the world. Consider that Jesus, after having been scourged and crowned with thorns, was unjustly condemned by Pilate to die on the cross. My adorable Jesus, it was not Pilate; no it was my sins that condemned Thee to die. I beseech Thee, by the merits of this sorrowful journey, to assist my soul in it journey towards eternity. I love Thee, my beloved Jesus; I love Thee more than myself; I repent with my whole heart of having offended Thee. Never permit me to separate myself from Thee again. Grant that I may love Thee always, and then do with me what Thou wilt. Pray the Our Father, a Hail Mary, and the Glory be. At the cross her station keeping, Stood the mournful Mother weeping, Close to Jesus to the last."
You know what's funny about religion? They all think their own religion is the only true religion and every other religion is insane, but when us rationalists explain how every religion is just as insane and illogical as the other, you suddenly see all theists gang up against us. It's quite laughable when we do it on purpose too, then point it out and then just see their reaction ^^. If only people would realize and think about their own religion the same way they would about other religions, we'd see quite a revelation, shame people don't see this simple logical truth.
There are fundamentalist nut sects who think they have a monopoly on truth, but there are also many Protestant sects that recognize that other groups are admirable, that many of the differences between denominations are trivial matters, and that they are separate because of different traditions, not serious differences of belief. As a non-Christian I am pointing out that Christian groups are not as illogical, dogmatic, or sectarian as you seem to think.
I love how when people of religious faith here things like this that are completely undisputable they get uncomfortable and lash out with insults or blasphemous remarks to make them selves feel better. Standing ovation for Stephen Frey he nailed this one if you catch my drift ;b
Cliston Mott It's exactly the opposite of what you say. Atheists and possibly Protestants would be mocking, sarcastic and name-calling but not true Catholics. Fry has not asked himself with an open mind why many Catholics, like myself, enjoy deep peace and joy. He perpetuates what he believes is a fashionable antagonism to the Catholic Church and Judaeo-Christian ethics by extension. I hardly call that an "open mind"; rather, disingenuous and cowardly and arrogant in the extreme.
Not that we need God to be moral, we need Him because we are incomplete without Him. He completes us. He is All in All. This same God, loves you rounak. His name is Jesus, and he had you on his mind the day he died in the cross. He endured it all for the thought of gaining you into His kingdom one day. It doesn’t matter how far you may be, his love can still reach you. He loves you in that state and condition. He’s not religion, He is a person. He’s not calling you to follow a bunch of rules. No. But He wants you to have a relationship with Him and know Him as a Father. He is alive and real. Call on to Him, He is right there with you. You’ll see.
@@ElishaBushiri Hi Johar, I understand what you're talking about - a relationship which is warm, comforting, inspiring and strengthening. When life is going fairly OK, I don't believe in God, but at times of stress, the sense of God is instinctive and inspiring.
Love this, from concept to execution, perfect video. (Well, maybe apart from the video quality, but hey, that's not the important bit here.) This format is great - sitting a clever person down, without an overzealous interviewer interrupting every other second, and just giving the clever person a queue on what to talk about - and more importantly, NOT INTERRUPTING them. As for the content, I couldn't agree more. Stephen Fry has interesting opinions and can express himself amazingly. Thanks for the great video =)
+Alex Rogers I would clarify that i's dogma which inhibits progression, it just so happens most religions are inherently dogmatic. So you're half true. Some religions are less of a threat than others to progression. There are dogmatic political ideologies that inhibit progression too. But generally i agree with the sentiment.
+Alex Rogers Religion enabled progression, that's the irony. Without religion we'd still be in huts, huddled around a fire in family units and smoking herbs.
+toy mangle if you are propositioning that religion has caused quite somw wards, which have sparked a need for innovation and progress then yes, religion has sparked progress. Otherwise I think the dogmatic nature religion has on morality and knowledge on the whole has limited civilisation rather then expanded it.
+Dirk M. Schut I doubt it. Religious dogma keeps our animal side in check - are you suggesting if we followed our animal desires we'd be some fantastic, space-faring race of proto-humans? xDD
+toy mangle I'm not saying that we would be spacefaring protohumans, though to be fair, we are spacefairing, though try to keep close to our starting point for now. What I am saying is, that religious dogma has a tenedency to inhibit free thought in the sense of science taking assumptions against that very religion. situations like Galileo's moon discovery comes to mind, as well as the poercieved notion of the world being flat, even though scientists and mathematicians had calculated the earth being spherical well before that. Now I could be wrong, but I would consider that to be counteracting to the expansion of knowledge and scientific achievement. By the way, speaking of our darker and near animalistic tendencies: it'sno secret that the Nazi's (amongst others) conducted science that would have never gone forward under religious dogma (or any sense of ethics, really). Now, please note that I am not condoning these sorts of practices, neither am I suggesting that I endorse science to the detriment of man's fellow man, or animal. What remains, regrettably, is that these expriments have furtheredscience and that the results fomr these experiments ahve afterwards been used to great effect by subsequent researchers. So, yes, the complete absence of any sort of ethics and/or religious dogma could very well have enabled us to be spacefaring protohumans. That said, religious dogma has incited quite a number of wars, bringing out the worst in people trying to off each other and 'inspiring' people to off each other in various new, interesting and innovative ways which have helped scientistsdevice peacful applications for our further comfort.
+Fritula 6 "is that the hope... there is no God," ...your god Demands FAITH, with proof Faith has no place to exist. Without proof, god has no place to exist. One does not need to hope there is no god. You have only hope that there is Bible "truths" are a mere bread crumb trail, embellished by imagination, fueled by fear and superstition. Fear of a god who uses GENOCIDE as a calling card YOU should hope he doesn't
For a smart man, he can be kind of dense...or maybe he's just self involved. I guess we usually see life from only our own pinhole perspective, but when you are trying to present yourself as an intelligent, mature and thoughtful ambassador to others, one would think that you might project beyond your own limited experience and understanding and try to empathize with those around you, or at least those you are talking to. It seems that Mr. Fry thinks that people want to believe in a god or gods because it helps them rationalize life in some way. Perhaps that's why he believes in Evolution, but this is not so true, I think, of those on the other side of that coin. Generally speaking, of course, these people believe in god(s) because they can feel the void we call life and death, they feel the interconnection between us all and between all living things, and they are grateful for this chance they have to "be". Spirituality, I believe, at it's core, is an expression, much like art, that reflects the beauty of the believer more then anything else. And yes, to a lesser degree, the belief itself. The most important thing for our society is NOT to Un-believe, as Mr. Fry would have it, but to believe what you will. Personally, I don't see the truth in either argument, there is none to see, just opinion and skewed "facts" twisted to fit these beliefs. As an agnostic I think it is important that both exist, not the corruption that is within them both, but the beautiful parts that draw us to them in the first place. We need MORE diversity, tolerance, and spirituality, not less, as much as we need love, intelligence and foolishness. I think Stephen Fry would disagree with this "philosophy", at least publicly. I believe that it is better to surround ourselves with happy, amiable fools, then intelligent, unyielding assholes, any day of the week... even Sundays. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Peace and Love! Мир и Любовь! Paix et Amour! Frieden und Liebe! Paz y Amor! Pace e di Amore!
What you said about people who believe in God(s), that they do this because they feel the void of life and death and an interconnection between all living things. Well I'm an athiest and I still feel all of that. As a living thing I think it's impossible not to feel that void of life and death, it's the most basic instinct to keep us as individuals alive. And the interconnection between all living things... well evolution proves that there is an interconnection, I can admire a blade of grass knowing that I'm related to it and that we both formed from the tree of life (in the sense of a branching graph), I can admire and know the fact that our evolutionary benifits have aloud us to continue to exist... I could go on like that forever, I think you see my point.
***** I do see your point, and in some ways I agree with your point. I just don't understand how so called intelligent people can have such narrow views as to think that they have anything figured out. To reserve the right to believe whatever you like is not only a lovely idea, it's our rights as free thinking individuals. How it begins to chap my ass and where that right ends is when we infringe on and disrespect others' rights to do the very same thing. Both sides, as if there were ever just two sides, seem hell bent on convincing the other that what they believe is the shizzle, when, I'm fairly sure, both are wrong on so many levels. Wrong or not, though, doesn't matter a damn. I think it's important to respect people's beliefs and maybe realize that without that freedom, the freedom to believe whatever blows your skirt up, if we don't nurture this in others, we will end up as fascists and wondering how the hell Adolf Hitler got resurrected within ourselves. You understand, I sincerely don't see this type of propagandizing and one sided rhetoric as the "boisterous imparting of necessary information", but the type of derisive derivation and disrespect as the Nazi's had for the Jews, Stalin had for mankind, and Obama has for the poor. It's a slippery slope, and we should consider tolerance as a healthy substitute. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Peace and Love! Мир и Любовь! Paix et Amour! Frieden und Liebe! Paz y Amor! Pace e di Amore!
Now i more clearly understand what you were saying, yeah I agree with you, people should have the right to believe in what they want. There's something to be embraced when people dissagree with religious views, it's a sign there's still diversity. However I think you may have slightly overstated obama when comparing him to the likes of hitler haha
***** What you've said seemed well thought out and was presented without ...well, without passion ...which isn't necessarily good or bad. The points you've made I would make interchangeably between what has infamously, and mysteriously, become 2 sides. Those who you say bare skepticism and open minds, I say hail from both camps and are as divergent as the universe. Other points, I think more scientific in nature, made it sound as if you thought we might actually know things and that through structured skepticism and regiment we can progress. Our understanding of life and the universe that surrounds us is staggeringly limited and biased in nature, to put it generously. I don't see us ever moving forward in any positive way, or even noticeably forward at all, without a mixture of "both sides". One of mankind's greatest gifts, and simultaneously one of his greatest downfalls, is his beautiful capacity for emotional response. Without this "gift" I think we would have never gained purchase on this spinning, wet rock in space. Yes, it has, in those same instances, been the source of some of our greatest downfalls. Yet, one can not ask for true love and expect sanity as well. The way I figure it is, we either find a way to balance the books, aggregate the elegance present on each side of the ledger, or we will destine ourselves to fumble forever blindly in the dark. That is until we completely bankrupt our species altogether. Light means nothing at all, not beauty nor hope nor understanding, without the dark.
Wow. I never realized that, compared to other gods (Roman gods, Greek gods, Egyptian gods, etc) the Roman Catholic God is probably the most boring supernatural entity ever to have been conceived by humans, and was probably conceived by the laziest of religion-builders. The God of Abraham takes literally almost no imagination to comprehend; he is simply imbued with all of these superlatives (omniscience, omnipotence, omnibenevolence, etc.) without any rational thought as to how they might conflict with one another. This being is male, for some unexplained reason. This being literally spends most of eternity doing nothing, at some point decides to create a universe, an earth, people, animals, etc. takes seven days to do this, and then sits back down to do nothing again. Well, except to occasionally give some few individuals happiness (while allowing the rest of the planet to suffer), strike down nonbelievers, and command his followers to strike down nonbelievers and convince other people that a supernatural God exists without the slightest bit of supernatural help. He essentially leaves people to dupe themselves through coincidences and random horrific life events that there is a God, as he doesn't even care to give the slightest bit of undeniable evidence of his own existence. Even the Greek gods were *so* much more fascinating to conceptualize. Apollo, riding in his chariot every day across the sky to bring day and night. The gods got jealous, angry, lustful, happy, mournful, and they actually had interesting, colorful interactions on earth. *These* are stories to tell your children to excite their imagination. The Bible stories just fail to ascribe any sort of unique personality to God. This guy is just not up to par on a literature perspective. And this guy is supposed to be the one and only God (all other gods humanity came up with are fakes)? The God of Abraham is the god writers come up with when they are tired, bored, and have run out of good ideas for new deities.
+BattlesuitExcalibur Yea, i agree. Instead of giving their god character any form of defining character traits, the writers of the bible just make it look like he's perfect and above everything, which is incredibly lazy writing.
LeCheckmate no youre wrong. Try the account where moses is able to talk to Yhwh about not destroying the people in the desert. He doesnt do it. Try his tolerance of polygamy for a while and slavery. He just tolerated it yet set guidelines to make it fair. Try where it states how God felt regret and how his heart was grieved during the corruption from the fallen angels. Obviously you're another one who needs a bible study!
Hey Samuel, Jesus loves you. Yes, you were on His mind that day he died on that cross. He endured it all for the thought of gaining you into His Kingdom one day. No matter how far you may be, His love can still reach you. Just call on to Him, He’s right there with you.
Not brilliant. It's merely just as emotional a reaction as he accuses Christians of having. If he does not think that Christians should see beauty in the world and thank God for it, then he cannot see what he considers ugliness and use that as an argument against God. What he says there isn't even pointing out a contradiction--which he believes it to be--its merely balancing his perceptions against theirs, and why is his any better than theirs? Because he includes more? He doesn't. He merely hasn't said what the Christians do with what he points out as distressing about the world. They have no place in this video except as straw whipping-boys for his biases. Has he quoted any? There's not even any anecdotal evidence of any serious discussion with them. He may have had some, but he does not show it. He speaks astonishingly badly about the effects of believing in an afterlife. First, one does not accept or deny a fact or concept because of the effects that it will have. Those are quite irrelevant to truth, but he uses it as the foundation of his thought on the truth of the afterlife. Second, he's absolutely wrong about hte effects of such a belief. The existence of universities--in Europe started by churchmen and in Arabia started my Islamic scholars of which there have been many. Look at the names of the stars. Most of them are Arabic because in the Middle Ages the greatest scientists in the world were Islamic. Hospitals were built by churchmen who firmly believed in an afterlife. Even in the Early Church in Rome there were the paraboli, 'the reckless ones,' who would sacrifice themselves for others in plague-time, and it was such a popular office that some churches in some of the larger cities had to limit the number of them. The entire British school system--of which he is a product--was built originally by the medieval Church, and parts of it exist to this day. Listen again to his description of the philosophers that he likes-he makes passing mention of some, but he misses their heart. Even when he describes Bertrand Russell, he speaks not of his philosophy, but of his history of philosophy, which is not philosophy. And he calls Kant 'simple'? He can't possibly have read him well. Try all three of his 'Critiques' and see if he's 'simple.' This entire video is one long emotional description. There's no logic in it, no progress from proposition to conclusion. He's a very nice fellow from all that I can see, but on this he's just wrong.
This man tops my list of favourite people to have as dinner guests, I could listen to Mr Fry all day. Such an incredible intellect with a 24 carat heart of gold
I'm Christian and wish that people who disagree or agree with my religion could act the way this man does towards each other . Well spoken and understanding.
I agree that the way a fair number of Christians act is ridiculous. If they acted the way they were supposed to than people would probably not have so many issues .
H Wik You start with "I'm sorry" and then dish out sarcastic insults? You need to learn the proper use of the language. Good to know that you have a blind intolerant opinion like the few people that may or may not deserve your cynicism.
H Wik I appreciate anyone with a civil attitude and understanding, but I must agree with you here in the grand scheme of things. Christianity has zero merits in my eyes, and yes even the "Christianity makes me feel good" stuff makes my skin crawl with what it represents.
Why is it that a secular nation finds it difficult to express it's atheism. Good stuff Stephen. Atheists are required to be vocal this side of the Atlantic.
'It's atheism'? Isn't that expecting most people to be as you'd like or as you are? Perhaps a 'secular nation' is secular in its institutions but not in its people. Don't most people believe in some kind of God?
Aristo Telian Yes your right a secular nation does not mean that the people are necessarily atheist. I know very few theists and feel that in the UK most people are atheist or mildly deistic.
Mark Macdonald There's much more to it than that. The 'religious history' is seldom about religion. Study Social Identity Theory. For centuries they were members of a 'group' which usually was more national than religious. Europeans fought over territory and trade far more than over religion. Within a nation, yes, it happened that one religious monarch would persecute members of another religion, but that wasn't over religion so much as loyalty, in the same way that Stalin and Mao persecuted and killed those who had a religion at all. Join a group--socialism, capitalism, religion or atheism--and one defends it.
Not only very funny - but this man is a deep THINKER. Cambridge should be proud for being instrumental in the development of his intellect. Well done Stephen.
I think polytheism (for want of a better term) is a natural state for the human mind. As history shows, monotheists will commonly amend their canon with the likes of saints, heroes, legendary figures, and most recently, celebrity icons. Even many atheists succumb to that mindset in some form without realizing it's the same unconscious impulse driving it.
If all the people on earth that belive in a God go to heaven, then heaven would become Hell. I am an atheist, I belive in mother nature, love, peace, and prosperity for all. :-)
Ha ha, lol Very funny. Many People that belive in God are corrupt and do Evil things. like kill other people in the name of God, molest children, rape ther wifes. beat there kids. ect ect, then they just ask God for forgivness and carry on with life as if they have done nothing wrong. ( not to mention all the bad things done in the past in the name of God. They also accuse ALL Atheists of being corrupt because Atheists choose not to belive in a God. No one can prove there is a God. Do You also believe in the loch ness monster, the yetee, fairies, and the father christmas. Who needs a God ( Father ) that allows so much misery on this planet and if you dont love and worship him, sends you to hell, to suffer for eternity. Would you do that to your children if they do not love and worship you.
+Visal Soun Dont worry, he's Atheist, he will keep his family away from all the religion's child abuse, misoginy and brainwashing so he will be very far from hell.
Visal Soun LOL, All religious leaders are making zombies out of their dumb sheep :-) See Video . This is hell: facebook.com/Mr.Facebrooks/videos/906394119475022/
My mother is an avid christian. When she scored one of the best university entrance exam score, the newspaper article was titled "Faithful christian woman bla bla bla." My grandmother died very early and my mother recalls the scene where grandma addled with diabetes would go to church every morning while giving ride to my mother. As a christian, she was kind, very accepting- thought it was ridiculous for the church to condemn masturbation and gays- and logical. I was a faithful christian until I entered a fundamentalist christian highschool where people who literally believed in bible word by word condemned anyone who personalize their own faith. Disgusted, I became an atheist. When discussing religion so many people focuses on the literal concepts. In that aspect, religion is an absolute nut job. Bible is a lie, and Jesus is pretty much a made up figure. However, religion is more than the words jotted down in a paper. People personalize Jesus, they believe in the goodness of people and the world and somehow link it to Jesus. This may seem a round about approach and quite illogical, but is very powerful nonetheless. My mother endured some of the worst times of her life believing in God. Some might say she deceived herself with a made up figure, but this is demeaning. Belief is a personal thing and no matter how illogical it is it can be good and useful. That being said, I don't think I can ever go back being a Christian again. Once you realize God and bible is not really important, but it is the act of belief-in anything- that gives us strength, it's impossible to think of God with any real trust.
To all you who are debating ON BOTH SIDES about some kind of "god" existing, let me give you a bit of sound advice. That which is neither provable, nor disprovable, is not worth pondering; it is better to assume whichever scenario is most likely.
Which would be that the earth was designed for life and we are morally accountable to our designer who has shown Himself to us decidedly in the person of Jesus Christ.
Disappointing, especially as I am a fan of Fry the comedian, writer, and public intellectual. I was hoping for something different than the standard atheist line. Too many militant atheists assume that religion was simply a stand-in for science and that as science advanced, religion waned in significance. This ignores the teleological and ethical dimensions of religion Mr Fry is right that the churches have often fouled this aspect up, but that doesn't change the fact that the quest for understanding of purpose and meaning is, as he acknowledges toward the end, a continuous human striving. I find the mechanism of nature interesting, but my inability to understand some of them did not serve as motivation to turn to religion. To simply state that these questions shouldn't be asked, as Dawkins, though not Fry, has stated is also something that "won't do". I am repelled by the anti-science leanings of some sects around today and likely as repelled by dogmatism as Fry, but I a not prepared to reject the whole field of inquiry on that basis. I also detect here a certain amount of argumentative polarization here. Religion is criticized for the views of its most extreme representatives, while the darker aspects of science aren't touched on. Science may be able to give a "natural" explanation for all phenomena experienced in the universe, but as Wittgenstein noted, that still leaves some rather important questions about the human condition untouched. The historical record makes it clear that religion hasn't made humans good or even incapable of great evil. As a species, we are remarkably agile at rationalizing and justifying ur brutalities and excesses. On the other hand, science doesn't seem to be heading us toward the peaceable kingdom, either.
That was always the most confusing part of being a Catholic...I have free will, but I am unable to utilize it the way I chose...because I am innately sinful and unable to act morally without a guide. Doesn't the gift of "free" will lose meaning by that logic?
Questioning things, from the heart, is the Key. It automatically transports us to the building of Knowledge/Wisdom. It is our mission to seek the big fish amongst tiny ones inside. Those who subscribe to a tiny sliver of data, without question, might not ever make it to the gates.
I would really love nothing more than to meet this man someday.... Ok, sure I have bigger goals in life but, meeting Sir Stephen Fry would be a lovely time.
So my belief that 1+1=2 is just as subjective as my belief in moral matters, for instance? Come off it. By defining all beliefs as subjective, you're just mudding the waters and making clear conversation hard for no particular reason.
But is my *belief* that 1+1=2 objective, or subjective? Or my *belief* that all bachelors are unmarried? It seems to be that the truth of these propositions has nothing to do with personal inclination or attitude.
The vast majority of self-deceived people like vain arguments like Fry's and what he thinks is his relevant and fashionable antagonism to the Catholic Church. The Church loves all people and cares for their happiness. It condemns homosexuality the behaviour, not the homosexual. It does not condemn behaviour that it doesn't prescribe a cure for: www.truechristianity.info/en/articles/article0181.php
I am an atheist and it still makes me smile when I tell people and they look at me like a devil worshiper. Not understanding that also don't believe in the devil.. lol. I do still fully respect other peoples beliefs and like to listen to them. It s bonus of a non believer that you have no need to defend a belief so can respect others.
Religion is like dogs laughing at cats for praying to god for mice to fall from the sky when everyone knows that when you pray to god what falls from the sky are bones!
It is not logical to assume there is no afterlife. It is logical to make the best of the time we have on earth, but making massive speculative leaps is never a logical conclusion.
Has anybody ever considered the enormous problem if there is an afterlife. All those trillions upon trillions of bodies in some form, where are they? in heaven or hell, what a stupid notion. Who in their right mind could possibly embrace such a notion.
While I don't subscribe to the notion of an afterlife and I personally think it is a bit childish, I don't understand how you cannot understand why one would not like the idea. Death is final, and that can be very scary. The idea that you can go to a perfect place with all your dead loved ones and be happy for eternity is an extremely comforting idea. It's just an easy way out, but totally understandable.
Love Planet Earth I am reminded of that old song of yesteryear where one line is "I swear there ain't no heaven, but I pray there ain't no Hell." lets face it, no one [well not that I know of] has ever come back to tell us.
Choosing the nice bits has been the standard practice of those who have been upholding the Bible as the quintessential guide for their theism. Many scriptures, in particular the Old Testament, have been advocating such heinous acts as stoning disobedient children and describing castration as precluding entrance to Heaven.
Not stoning disobedient children. Don't depend on second-hand knowledge. Study the meaning of the words and look up parallel passages to see if it actually says that. You'll find that it does not. The words and like texts show that the 'son' (it never says 'child') is grown, he's a violent drunk, and the village elders must judge his punishment, but it's up to them to determine it. The capital punishment is an option, but it is not mandatory (No 'three strikes' law, either). There is also no record of this punishment ever being carried out. Now, shall we go to the New Testament, with it's 'love your neighbor' or even 'love your enemy' (when was the last time you did that?), and show how primitive that is.
***** You confuse modern sensibilities with universal moralities. I believe another term for that is 'chronological snobbery,' or 'why hasn't everybody in history done as we do today?' If we went back in history and talked to those folks, would they agree with us? And how do we get people to change long-held cultural beliefs? The beliefs that people had once upon a time were quite different from ours, but all times have been fallen. We know something about this--it's what makes the world so untidy and dangerous. Any time that people get involved, the result is a mess. We can straighten it out (more or less) eventually, but it's a crooked road getting there. So the world is fallen and bent, including the world of the ancient Middle East. How to fix that? Baby steps. Anything larger and people won't listen. Example: Socrates. Tiberius Gracchus. Or the prophet Jeremiah, who had the king's blessing to go tear down altars to Molech and Ashur, and the people of some of the towns with such altars tried to kill him. Baby steps--the only way for lasting change. So the Bible starts out with small changes, such as a fair trial, two or more witnesses, incontrovertible proof. Inculcating a love of the truth in spite of one's wishes is dificult in modern times. Here we're dealing with an ancient Bronze Age society. Jesus said about divorce that it was never supposed to exist, but because people insist on it, then it must be done under certain constraints. Stoning is the same way. You'll notice that Israel grew out of it? It seems to have worked.
***** You obviously did not read my post. That makes your implication that you have read the Bible suspect. Take out 'I believe,' then. Take out that whole sentence. The meaning of the post doesn't change, which means that 'I believe' is not the key word in the text.
***** Humans created the slavery they later had to abolish--except that in some places it still exists. While your question is an interesting mental exercise, it's still speculation, so we must go carefully in it. It depends on where one was at the time. In the Code of Hammurabi, nobles were treated differently--better--from common people. After the Neolithic Revolution, patriarchy arose and strengthened all over the world (less so in some places, but it existed everywhere). In China during the Han Dynasty, people were confined in occupational boxes not much less strict than the caste/jati system of India. Rome was at least one-third slaves, slavery was all over Africa during the Axum/Ghana/Mali empires, in Athens women were strictly confined to the home and in Sparta women were soldier-baby producers. So I really don't think that we can say with certainty that life would have been any better without the Church or the Bible, because it wasn't all that great in places that didn't have either. And of course I have heard of a revolution, but people get killed in revolutions. Rome's three Servile Wars, the wars prompted by the death of Tiberius Gracchus, the French Revolution, the October Revolution, Syria today. Only those who have not lived through one would speak of one so easily.
He misses the point of Buddhism completely, though. Buddhism is not about being nice or whatever... It's just about dealing with one's own pain and suffering. It's a way of life. It's not a philosophy. And it doesn't pretend to be a philosophy. In the same way that you may be a vegetarian and still ask philosophical questions. Though some might treat it as a religion, I admit. I don't consider my religion to be Buddhism. Buddhism doesn't have a god or divine being or whatever.
+Aditya C congrats, can you get all the other buddhist to agree with you. "Buddhism doesn't have a god or divine being or whatever." Especially this one.
I'm not Buddhist. I'm atheist. As I said, I don't consider my religion to be Buddhism. I don't align myself with any religion. I just understand what Buddhism is. But I find his strange feeling that western thought is somehow superior to eastern thought, is strange, as I said, but also troubling, especially for somebody, who often claims to be enlightened.
Where? I haven't received any notifications for anybody who has tagged me in any comment, showing that they disagree... Further, Buddhism DOESN'T have a god. This is a classical tenant of Buddhism. It is the reason why, originally, Siddhartha Gautama did not want his figure to be made into a statue. Usually, only footprints, or such. The idea was that "everybody is/ could be Buddha." Further, this explains why much of early Buddhist writing is without identified author. It's bad practice to identify one's self or take ownership. Rather, use pseudonyms or leave the writing without putting a name on the writing itself. Now, of course, as time went on, people started making sculptures of him. (see Ghandara sculptures) Authors started to claim authorship for their works. While I am unaware of any Buddhists, who disagree with me, in this RUclips comment thread, I am certain that many Buddhists still disagree. But I think one would have a hard time showing me Buddhist literature, in which there is any mention of a creator god, or a personal god, of any form or shape.
Aditya C Wow what a long comment for a simple question. I am asking why other buddhist do not agree with you? especially the divine being thing. You know those lovely devas and daemons, and more. What I am saying is that your opinion is hardly universal. Your understanding of bhudism I could not accept as correct, until you shown evidence. And considering its a "philosphy" or a religion you will not be able to do that.
Stephen Fry was a catholic, went to public school, is a homosexual, lived through times when catholics, public schoolboys and homosexuals were beaten and abused physically and mentally. It's not surprising that he is now trying to hurt all religion which he likens to catholicism. I'm guessing the broken nose came from one of these beatings. Sad really. BUT we shouldn't be fooled his sugar coated message of hate.
Ralph Zimmermann Methinks you defendeth his nose too strenuously. I didn't say anything that wasn't true, do your own research everybody. Like I say it is rather sad. I don't think he's a buffoon I think he's a stooge.
+Ralph Zimmermann Someone else brought up the subject of his nose. I can sympathise with him, mine is not the best nose in the world. If you had a choice you would not pick it. I suggested that being raised in a time of hatred of, and violence towards homosexuality, a time of violence and abuse towards smaller, younger public school pupils and a time of abuse towards catholic children by priests and catholic officials probably has a lot to do with the shaping of his nose and his character. He is also a very accomplished performer, he draws you in with his quiet vulnerability and then uses his position of intimacy with the viewer in an attempt to destroy their faith. He is not a very nice person.
+Ralph Zimmermann Would you agree that believing something doesn't exist is a belief? If you believe there is no water in a swimming pool that is a belief? If you believe there is no God, a belief which you cannot prove, is a blind belief?
Yes, the guy does follow him everywhere he goes, even in the toilet and shower. Every time Stephen looks in the mirror, he faces the person who broke his nose. Unless you count the concrete he fell on when he was six.
The Pope was arguing with an Atheist about the existence of God and failing to get his point across. They had been arguing for two hours and finally the Pope in frustration sat down. "Listen," said the Pope, "You are like a man in a dark room, with no lights and windows, wearing a blindfold looking for a black cat that isn't there. What do you say to that?" The Atheist thought for a moment. "Yes your Holiness, you are probably right," he said, "but you are also like a man in a dark room, with no lights and windows, wearing a blindfold looking for a black cat that isn't there. The only difference is, you have found the cat." Dave Allen nailed the issue with this joke. IMHO I'm happy to strive to do my sorry best for those around me by lighting a match instead of cursing the infinitely dark question of God. Not believing in a monotheistic God does not preclude someone being a decent, loving spiritual human being. Being the latter is challenging enough.
I find it laughable that Stephen Fry think it's 'beautiful' and 'charming' that someone could believe in many gods, yet believing in one God is 'really ghastly' and a staggering 'misapprehension'. Believing in anything supernatural requires a leap of faith, thanking one entity or several does not make it more or less charming, it looks like another attempt by Stephen Fry to belittle modern religion.
It is charming and beautiful because it's an easy to understand concept. For each thing that you fail to understand, you assign a deity to it and use that deity as your explanation until a better explanation is found. Its a beautiful picture of human's ignorance, and as we proceed to understand more of what's around us, those deities fade away, as they're no longer of use. Assigning one deity to everything, however, is quite a difference. Having one deity responsible for all leave you no room for learning and exploring, they leave you no opportunity to replace that one deity with the knowledge that you accumulate. I must say that having a monotheist belief is a rather lazy and irresponsible answer the the questions of life compare to polytheist, and also very dull and lacking of imagination. If you're going to play with your own mind anyway, why not make it a bit more colorful and diverse?
But believing in one God is an easy concept too, even easier I'd say. And I agree that using a deity as an explanation until a better explanation is found is more respectable, but that thought process is not necessarily an offshoot of polytheism nor exclusive to it. Many religious people have discovered great things, and replaced their deity with the knowledge they have accumulated. And monotheistic have faded away, Zoroastrianism for example. If monotheism religions had died out and polytheism was widespread today I imagine Stephen Fry would be saying the opposite in this video.
I would argue the difference, as most religions in history, polytheism or monotheism, have died out because of another religion and often not because of new knowledge and discovery. Beside, from what's Fry said in the video, it does not seem to be a specific attack to modern religions and monotheism, but rather a difference in point of view that lead to an inability to understand, just like how most religious people seem to fail to understand why not a lot more people share their same belief. He does not understand/sympathize with religious people, especially monotheists. To accuse his opinion as a pre-designed attack is rather hasty and harsh.
he does not say that believing in multiple gods is more truth-based, but only that he sees why it is psychologically understandable that some people would embrace that perspective.
Gerry McAveety Doubt it, what Stephen Fry has always been against is the fact religion is a product of man, hence manipulated by the will of man. Of course it can lead to positive effects, but it's also an excuse for those to justify their own bias - homophobia, for example. And since it's almost unnecessary to point out good deeds are not exclusive to the will of religion, but rather a more natural product of human rationality and morality, why should religion be allowed to exert influence in the modern political world only to reassert thousands years old agendas?
he was muttering half of this!! it's quite amusing when he gets things wrong on qi though specially when he's just beliilted alan davies for not getting it right (more so when alan is actually right)
Yeah a lot of it is an act, I know sometimes they let things go out even when they know they're wrong e.g. when Fry said helium changes the frequency of your voice but not the pitch, they knew that's nonsense but let it go to air anyway. Also if you're a Christian or whatever of course you should watch videos that have other opinions or are you someone who only listens to opinions you already agree with? Now THAT is pointless.
The importance of unbelief in false stories and supernatural BS should not be undervalued. But you have to be careful, because as soon as you call yourself an "unbeliever" its easy to become close-minded and bound. You have to admit that some kind of "higher" and more powerful force has to exist. We are just semi-smart little animals on a planet that is microscopic in relation to the infinite universe, something bigger is in control, we dont even have free will no matter how much we want to believe it. If we have free will, why arent everybody happy and peaceful all the time? Excactly, something else is in control. What it is, i dont know. Its not a god in the sky like religions say, but there is something higher out there. Google *Truthcontest* and read *The Present*. What is said will change everything.
Baloney. It's called SCIENCE. I do not believe there is a higher power to create such an anomaly as our situation. I do believe there is other life out there, but to confine the works of this amazing Universe to any higher power is not giving true respect to this amazing situation science created. Doing so is truly being close minded. Only an open minded person can see as such.
"You have to admit that some kind of "higher" and more powerful force has to exist." Actually no, we don't. There is no evidence such a thing exists. The only things we have to admit exist are the things for which there is solid evidence. To believe something without evidence is called gullibility. A truly open minded and honest person will say they don't know how or why something happened and will investigate without simply saying something has to be or has to exist.
Well obviously the odds of us being alone in the universe is close to zilch. But a higher power?! We do not have to automatically assume that there is a super being or anything of that sort. Thats where it all derails. If calling one self is a non-believer is close minded, i dont want to be open minded. Imagine a world were you had to believe your car didnt come apart at random, or boats that stopped floating at random. Science is the only awesome thing we ever discovered, it's pure, and doesn't care wether it will be proven wrong down the line, if anything it encourages to be proven wrong so that it will become perfected or scrapped for whatever reasons. Even when its proven wrong it's progress. Science is something that is truely remarkable, its uncorruptable, it has build all the things you have in your daily life ! We can even tell such mundane things as the weather, imagine telling that to people 300 years ago. Buildings are not made by magic, planes dont stay in the air on hope and prayer, earth is not a magical planet, just a string of luck and probabilities. We live in a world where information thrives, sadly we also still thrive to encourage greed, so misinformation is still knowingly spread. Philosophy is interresting but even that challenges particularities in the highest regards.. religion does not challenge itself, It only limits your mind.
How's this for a philosophy, believe what you want, the end the afterlife is what you think and believe it'll be, but until then, don't be a bastard and try to generally be nicer to people. In this day an age I'm SICK and TIRED of people fighting between religion or science, belief and logic. In my opinion we need both. BOTH Logic to give us absolute answers to questions, and belief for the bigger questions, for the more ... you know. If you believe in God, Allah, Buddah, Optimus Prime, or whoever is being worshiped in this modern age, then they'll exist. Who knows maybe in the grander scale of things, God has been giving us the turn about, allowing us to find the science to his methods or whatever. Just can we all get along and stop trying to get on each others nerves?
That's impossible when people are trying to push their own agenda, force their rules on others or conduct violence because they believe they have a particular God on their side. You said we need religion for the bigger questions... ? Religion does not answer any of the bigger questions, only science does. Religion only offers assumptions and excuses about the Unknown. So of course there will always be a debate between those that only accept factual truth and those that make the truth up.
Look mate, you've just done what I'm hoping people will stop doing. Can we just quit arguing and get on with it? Believe what you want, be it a deity or be it a scientific text book, lets just get one with life. I myself, am religious to a point, but right now, I don't care who's right or who could be wrong. Religion doesn't just offer assumptions and excuses it gives people hope for a better place after we leave this world, and see our loved ones once again. Saying one person is right for believing one thing and someone else is wrong for believing another doesn't get us anywhere. I could go on, and on, but the fact is, I can't be arsed. I just want to live my life, without someone ridiculing me for believing in a deity when they believe in science. I wish I could just tell them to leave me the fuck alone but I can't. Can the arguments end?
JasonAlexVoorhees You sound like you're too lazy or too ignorant to consider the issues at hand. You have ignored my opening sentence. Of course, people use religion as a source of happiness, purpose and companionship, but then there are those that use it for control, murder, intolerance. You obviously don't care about those issues because you just want to brush the whole thing under the carpet. Of course people are going to disagree with you if you believe in something that has no scientific evidence to back it up. But the truth is you are allowed to believe what you want to believe and no one is stopping you. What atheists are trying to do is promote Reason and Logic over Blind Faith. I don't know what you mean by "get on with it" When Al-Qaeda flew planes into the twin towers did we say "oh get on with it" ? When religious people are trying to put their beliefs into government to make homosexuals second class citizens, ban abortion, teach the Book of Genesis literally to children... shall we say "Oh get on with it".
Get on with it. Life. We need to get on with life sure 9-11 with catastrophic, it was possible the worst thing to happen in a very long time. And I think your taking my comment to wrong way. I can understand the misinterpretation, I didn't make myself perfectly clear, so my fault in that regard. And sure, I'll agree, a lot of religious people are nuts, trying to enforce their religion upon others and shoot and kill and blow themselves up for their belief, which is terrible and ruins the reputation of people of that race. At times i think those people use religion as an excuse to blow shit up. Like man has used God to wage war with himself for centuries. And no I did not ignore your comment, nor am I ignorant nor lazy, I'm fed up is what i am. I'm fed up of people arguing, I'm fed up of people hating, I'm fed up of people trying to enforce their point of view upon others who think or believe differently. I can appreciate logic and reasoning. I'm all for logic and reasoning. Without it we wouldn't be where we are today, I get and understand that. I just hate it when Atheists belittle me and make fun of me for believing in something which is beyond logic and reason. I don't go up to people telling them to worship anyone or anything, so I don't see why they should to me. But mind thee, maybe I'm just encountering bad examples of Atheists, it's just all of my friends are one religion or another, Catholic, Muslim, Buddhist, whatever. And we get along great. I know, people will never agree between Science and Religion, between Logic fact and Belief. But it's just sad, it makes me sad. I watched two friend fall out because one got religion and the other was only for science. They'd been so close before. But then. I can understand people not believing in Gods, humans always want a logical explanation for everything, we want to know the Universe and all of it's secrets. And when we have science, Religion doesn't have much room left for us.
JasonAlexVoorhees I understand the sentiment of what you are trying to express, but we live in a world which is shaped by not only our own, but also other peoples beliefs and opinions. Therefore it is not as easy as saying let people believe what they want, because that could impact your life or any number of other peoples. People argue and push their ideas because they believe they are right, and probably helping other people. As long as we are receptive to this market place of ideas and engage in rational discourse we keep moving forwards. I'm not saying people should belittle you or anyone else in an ad hominem way, but there massive logical inconsistencies with many beliefs that should be highlighted, because these show they are most likely wrong. If we don;t highlight and express reason to doubt bad ideas, we will loose the ability to identify good ones from bad ones at all, and regress.
A WORD FROM GOD I Thirst for You "Behold, I stand at the door and knock… (Rev. 3, 20) It is true. I stand at the door of your heart, day and night. Even when you are not listening, even when you doubt it could be Me, I am there. I await even the smallest sign of your response, even the least whispered invitation that will allow Me to enter. And I want you to know that whenever you invite Me, I do come - always, without fail. Silent and unseen I come, but with infinite power and love, and bringing the many gifts of My Spirit. I come with My mercy, with My desire to forgive and heal you, and with a love for you beyond your comprehension - a love every bit as great as the love I have received from the Father ("As much as the Father has loved me, I have loved you…" (Jn. 15:10) I come - longing to console you and give you strength, to lift you up and bind all your wounds. I bring you My light, to dispel your darkness and all your doubts. I come with My power, that I might carry you and all your burdens; with My grace, to touch your heart and transform your life; and My peace I give to still your soul. I know you through and through. I know everything about you. The very hairs of your head I have numbered. Nothing in your life is unimportant to Me. I have followed you through the years, and I have always loved you - even in your wanderings. I know every one of your problems. I know your needs and your worries. And yes, I know all your sins. But I tell you again that I love you - not for what you have or haven’t done - I love you for you, for the beauty and dignity My Father gave you by creating you in His own image. It is a dignity you have often forgotten, a beauty you have tarnished by sin. But I love you as you are, and I have shed My Blood to win you back. If you only ask Me with faith, My grace will touch all that needs changing in your life, and I will give you the strength to free yourself from sin and all its destructive power. I know what is in your heart - I know your loneliness and all your hurts - the rejections, the judgments, the humiliations, I carried it all before you. And I carried it all for you, so you might share My strength and victory. I know especially your need for love - how you are thirsting to be loved and cherished. But how often have you thirsted in vain, by seeking that love selfishly, striving to fill the emptiness inside you with passing pleasures - with the even greater emptiness of sin. Do you thirst for love? "Come to Me all you who thirst…" (Jn. 7: 37). I will satisfy you and fill you. Do you thirst to be cherished? I cherish you more than you can imagine - to the point of dying on a cross for you. I Thirst for You. Yes, that is the only way to even begin to describe My love for you. I THIRST FOR YOU. I thirst to love you and to be loved by you - that is how precious you are to Me. I THIRST FOR YOU. Come to Me, and I will fill your heart and heal your wounds. I will make you a new creation, and give you peace, even in all your trials I THIRST FOR YOU. You must never doubt My mercy, My acceptance of you, My desire to forgive, My longing to bless you and live My life in you. I THIRST FOR YOU. If you feel unimportant in the eyes of the world, that matters not at all. For Me, there is no one any more important in the entire world than you. I THIRST FOR YOU. Open to Me, come to Me, thirst for Me, give me your life - and I will prove to you how important you are to My Heart. Don’t you realize that My Father already has a perfect plan to transform your life, beginning from this moment? Trust in Me. Ask Me every day to enter and take charge of your life. - and I will. I promise you before My Father in heaven that I will work miracles in your life. Why would I do this? Because I THIRST FOR YOU. All I ask of you is that you entrust yourself to Me completely. I will do all the rest. Even now I behold the place My Father has prepared for you in My Kingdom. Remember that you are a pilgrim in this life, on a journey home. Sin can never satisfy you, or bring the peace you seek. All that you have sought outside of Me has only left you more empty, so do not cling to the things of this life. Above all, do not run from Me when you fall. Come to Me without delay. When you give Me your sins, you gave Me the joy of being your Savior. There is nothing I cannot forgive and heal; so come now, and unburden your soul. No matter how far you may wander, no matter how often you forget Me, no matter how many crosses you may bear in this life; there is one thing I want you to always remember, one thing that will never change. I THIRST FOR YOU - just as you are. You don’t need to change to believe in My love, for it will be your belief in My love that will change you. You forget Me, and yet I am seeking you every moment of the day - standing at the door of your heart and knocking. Do you find this hard to believe? Then look at the cross, look at My Heart that was pierced for you. Have you not understood My cross? Then listen again to the words I spoke there - for they tell you clearly why I endured all this for you: "I THIRST…"(Jn 19: 28). Yes, I thirst for you - as the rest of the psalm - verse I was praying says of Me: "I looked for love, and I found none…" (Ps. 69: 20). All your life I have been looking for your love - I have never stopped seeking to love you and be loved by you. You have tried many other things in your search for happiness; why not try opening your heart to Me, right now, more than you ever have before. Whenever you do open the door of your heart, whenever you come close enough, you will hear Me say to you again and again, not in mere human words but in spirit. "No matter what you have done, I love you for your own sake Come to Me with your misery and your sins, with your troubles and needs, and with all your longing to be loved. I stand at the door of your heart and knock. Open to Me, for I THIRST FOR YOU…"
Congratulations on your ability to 'Copy & Paste'. I would have liked to congratulate you on your reasoning, or your ability to debate, but sadly cannot do so, as you have contributed nothing original, or anything of yourself.
One primitive defence is to split good from bad, then idealise the good bits and deny and project the bad. It can be seen in some religions, everything is perfect, we are all good, but other people are bad. Integration of both is the challenge. We learn more from people who annoy us than anyone else. Own the bad bits, they are in us all. Well said Stephen. Spot on.
If he doesn't want to believe in God, that's his choice. Many people do believe, however. I find it interesting that he and others like him spend so much energy and time discussing an entity in whom they don't believe or have faith.
+Paul Metzger LOL, are you seriously implying media personalities discussing their atheistic standpoint somehow betray a secret belief in the existance of a bronze age Jewish sky daddy.??? Surely, admitting one's blind faith in a supernatural "creator"would enhance rather than detract from one's prospects within the entertainment industry, or could it be traditional conformist religious adherence is past its sell by date???
Well then that's that, isn't it? The Bible says that only fools deny god, so there's obviously no point going on is there. It clearly doesn't matter how intellectually and philosophically sound your reasons are; if you don't believe then you are simply a fool. How self righteous do you have to be to make a claim like that? It's basically the Bible saying "I'm right about everything. I won't prove it but if you disagree with me then you are stupid. (sticks out tongue in childish fashion)"
***** Sorry Tim, The quote is from Psalm 14 v1.... Using your own translation says thousands of years of history of people of faith are wrong and the self appointed messenger of wisdom Mr Fry is right. In my view Stephen Fry would be more truthful to say " I hope there is no God because if there is, I'm in trouble"
***** The fool hath said in his heart there is no God.... Your argument assumes that the people you are reviling are people uneducated and have not struggled themselves with difficult passages. The difference is Tim they have taken time to dig deeper into the context of why these things were written . Your rant about biblical translation and interpretations etc shows that you choose to believe it rather than engaged in study to find if it's true. On your final remark Tim, we both know that you can says these things to Christians without fear of a violent response. There is a selective rage when discussing this issues of the existence of God. Your response demonstrates that you have never seriously sought to discover the truth of the existence of God but rather like Stephen Fry hope there is no God because if there is ................................?
***** Oh Tim, I would like to sit down with you over a coffee or share some fish and chips on a park bench and discus this most important of all topics (that's what somebody did with me when I presented your arguments nearly 50 years ago) but since that is not possible there is a limit to how long this discussion can continue. When I speak of selective rage I an referring more to the plain fact that people are completely safe in railing against the God of the bible but rather more careful not to spout the same kind of blasphemies against Allah.... I like what old John Wesley said of Christians...."They die well". In the end, that speaks volumes to me. It makes interesting reading the last words of saints and sinners..... Quite challenging....Readily available on line... My last comment on this blog. Kind Regards Linda.
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The Greeks believed in their Gods at the time! One doesn't see or hear *them* being trashed and ridiculed for those beliefs today! The culture quietly incorporated their Gods/myths and moved on! Or have I got it wrong?
Wasn't till I noticed how Bernie lost that it really hit home. Been grappling with this one for a while. But yeah now it's an issue. I don't care that he lost just how he lost. If the people were against it it would have been understandable but when they are demanding change and then fail to vote for the candidate that aligns with their viewpoint it becomes more obvious. Obviously the I don't know mind point of view is correct but also the belief of all kinds is also fucked up. It's beyond atheism at this point. It encompass belief in all its forms. Fuck nuggets this is wierd.
@Way to Mars Would you eleborate?
Republicans be like this is nonsense
“Religion has convinced people that there's an invisible man ... living in the sky. Who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn't want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer, and suffer, and burn, and scream, until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you. He loves you and he needs money.” ― George Carlin
All perfect, all powerful, all good, but can't handle money.
Surely he needs money is the only thing that makes sense
@Roddy Rod Statistics actually show that Athiest tend to have a higher knowledge of Religion that actually Religious people. What tends to keep people Religious normally is a lack of knowledge. That is why the lower the education level and less people read in a specific country the higher the rate of Religious people.
Religion is often closely interwoven with culture! One gets so tired of the self-righteous people who constantly feel the urge to stand up and vociferously trash religion and God, but who shortsightedly pay no heed to the corpse of their culture lying rotting next to the toppled statue of God on the battlefield!
With no culture/religion to be their strength in numbers extended family, young people are aimlessly wandering around, seemingly lost in a wilderness of no ties! Perhaps religion is still a necessary part of life, especially if it has evolved alongside a civilised culture.
It doesn't take much awareness to note that the strongest cultures (in terms of a sense of entitlement and strength in numbers) are those formed around religion and ancestor worship. The weakest? It's not difficult to find the answer, and, sadly, the weakest are being frog-marched to extinction!
@Stand together america lol what? I went to college. No where in college do they teach classes on banning books and destroying statues. You don't think maybe people are just destroying these statues because the persons the statues represent are racist and not people we should celebrate? You don't think maybe books with false information and racist garbage should not be the standard of education? Additionally such books are still allowed to read in private. They just aren't what is promoted. Lol where are you getting your information from? Fox News, Info Wars, Liberty Hangout? Lol my goodness you sound hysterical. Additionally the devil doesn't exist. The concept of the devil character was literally stolen from Religions that came prior to Christianity. Why is the devil of those Religions fake and yours real?
How can one man be so eloquent? I wish I had a Stephen Fry figure in my life, growing up.
I love Bertrand Russell. Stephen Fry loves Bertrand Russell. Therefore I love Stephen Fry and Stephen Fry loves me. Logic. Or wine. Not sure, but either way I'm happy.
+Hermione Ziggeraut
Sounds alot to me like the "I fit in my jacket, my jacket fits in my suitcase, so I fit in my suitcase"-'logic'.
BlacksmithTWD you have completely broken down this joke to mere fractions lol
I like wine.
No, faulty logic, you love Bertrand Russel, Stephen Fry loves Bertrand Russell, therefore you you and Stephen Fry love Bertrand Russell. You may still hate Steven Fry. Cheers
Hermione Ziggeraut Fry has not asked himself with an open mind why many Catholics, like myself, enjoy deep peace and joy. He perpetuates what he believes is a fashionable antagonism to the Catholic Church and Judaeo-Christian ethics by extension.
I hardly call that an "open mind"; rather, disingenuous and cowardly and arrogant in the extreme.
An elegant and eloquent wordsmith. Stephen is an inspiration, a muse and a force of rational thought. Long live Stephen Fry.
there are 2 gods, one that we create, and the one that is
Good one
You are totally right! The one that I create is Yaweh, the one that is ... is Zeus. All hail the mighty Zeus!
george baker Stephen Fry and Chuck Norris.
It's so difficult to find an ethic in life. No matter what God you worship, or principles you practice you will die and you will fear it all your life. The thing that I find frustrating with Stephen Fry is that he has to fit into the British system so there has to be the British approach to philosophic discourse. What I would like to hear is Stephen unedited. His experience as a gay man. In this we hear Stephen's lecture on the semantics of "philosophy" and a smattering of philosophical nomenclature, but all he is doing is retailing secondhand Dawkins or Darwinian fatalism, Continental paganry or "God of the Gaps" apologetics. He is a creature of the British cultural species - but who is he really?
It's not wrong to be homosexual, it's wrong to think there isn't a after life.
Research real clear thinking talent-Leonardo da Vinci.
He’s thinking. And he’s smart. He will find what he’s looking for.
I don't believe in God, but I do think that, if i'm wrong, that God would be proud of the way i've used the intellect and reason which he would have endowed me to form the conclusions I have. I don't think a being that gave everybody free will would have wanted unquestioning, unthinking obedience.
While agree that God's supposed gift of free will and assuming a tyranny is improbable, I think that this "pride" aspect you describe would be highly out of character, Consider that god as mentioned in the old testament is capricious and far from proud of people who defy him. God's priorities are:
Belief
Total Submission
Fear
and close mindedness.....
Shane Lyster If those are Gods priorities, then I'm more glad than ever that I'm an atheist. I don't want to spend eternity with a utter twat like that.
That God would not be deserving of worship. Hell would, frankly, be preferable.
just basing it off of your general youtube presence.
if god created us and this world why would he let us destroy it and ourselves? but then again would he care as he only took a week to make it?
also dinosaurs...
@@QGoblin
Huh?
If Steven Fry did not exist, we would have to invent him.
He is truly one of the most amazing people in this world.
We could not, though.
"You can't just say there's a God because the world is beautiful...You have to account for bone cancer in children. You have to account for the fact that almost all animals in the wild live under stress with not enough to eat, and will die violent and bloody deaths. There is is not any way that you can choose just the nice bits and say that means there is a God...The wonder of nature must be taken in its totality. And it is a wonderful thing; it is absolutely marvelous. And the idea that an atheist, or a humanist if you want to put it that way, doesn't wonder and marvel at reality, at the way things are, is nonsensical. The point is, we wonder all the way."
--- Stephen Fry: The Importance of Unbelief
We also look in with a microscope which makes everything just that much bigger.
@Steven Moore He clearly said that the world is beautiful and is wonderful. But it also has a lot of problems that make it flawed. I don't know if your trying not to understand or are just stupid. The world is great not perfect and for a designer like god who is all powerful and all good to have made it this way is evil. If god is out there he is allowing kids and babies to die, people including children to be raped, and causes natural disasters to kill people and destroy there homes. That is just the tip of the iceberg.
@@justinwright1745 Then your god is either impotent or evil. Or non existent. Which is the most likely?
@@csabesz78 I don't have a god.
What I would ask is what business is it of Stephen Fry or anyone else what I,or others , believe
i love this man, in the most fucking gay way possible..
If heavens full of homophobic, racist, sexist, religious people then I think I'll just chill with satan for eternity, he seems much more chill
+Omar Malik satan and I are good mates actually, so we'll just have a mad party with cocaine and slags while religious people are up there licking Jesus' chocolate ring.
Jokes it's all bollocks anyway
+Nye Davis cowards are always brave before the battle.
+telabib cowards try to pretend that death isn't the end by believing in Heaven and Hell.
+shaqpopcorn34 Usually when you are proven wrong again and again, you usually don't repeat the same argument. Or erect a strawman.
But I guess " though shalt not bear false witness" doesn't matter to shaqpopcorn34
+shaqpopcorn34 just because you want something to be true doesn't make it true...
In less than 15 minutes, Stephen Fry provided the highest concentration of highly convincing answers explaining the benefits of being a non-religious non-believer. The point about savoring your life instead of squandering your time for a (likely not occurring) afterlife was so spot on. So many of his erudite and eloquent points were so casually delivered, but immensely powerful. I agree with the others' comments: Stephen Fry is a hero!
well, there had better be a god, or my growing anger would be for nothing.
He’s a Freemason satanic deceiver Jesus is king and died for our sins repent and find the truth
He seems so calm. He must not know Smaug is heading for Laketown.
+Docktor Jim Ah, my people.
he takes 3 anti depressants
I am fire, I am death
My goal in life is to acquire .05% of Stephen Fry's knowledge. What a brilliant educated man.
Shahm Shaar Even 0.01% would be enough. Wonderful man.
+Shahm Shaar Dont put yourself down and dont set people up as heros, your Dad or your friend or the man from your temple / Mosque is probably a better man !
Tweedledumb and Tweedlederp, these two. Yes let's not look up to anyone, surely some random man in your podunk home town who gets all their ideas from a single book will know just as much as a scholar of literature who's pored over classics from across the history of the globe. It isn't as if learning requires effort, right? Sarcasm aside, it's true you ought not put yourself down +Shahm Shaar. Just start reading. At first old books with big concepts feel intimidating but you may be surprised how quickly you can get used to it, and then before you know it there you are becoming truly educated.
+Shahm Shaar He's a freaking comedian
+TechReviewsUWant Channel among many, many other things
I woke early today and pulled on my $300 hiking boots, climbed the mountain at the back of my property and as I summited, witnessed a beautiful sunrise. "God is good," I thought....
Meanwhile in Calcutta a man my age woke up early and looked at his leg stumps, struggled to the street and took up his spot by the gutter with his begging bowl as another beautiful day dawned. "God is good?" he wondered....
The ultimate conceit is to invent in an all-knowing, all-loving god and then to believe that he actually cares about you alone in the unfathomable vastness of the Universe. I can convince myself that he cares for me, but he's got some explaining to do to the Calcutta amputee.
Ah, that's Einstein's theory of relativity in play there!
In the same way that in order for the Church to be so rich, there needs to be millions of starving people in Africa with HIV
Except that in this example they are more related than normal
God protects and blesses those that have covenant with him. The rest have covenant with the devil. This is a quick answer to your thought. I don't take care of other people's children.
Travis Howett and thus we see a clear example of the way religious belief destroys your ability to empathy and compassion. It is also illogical, as it discounts the indisputable fact, that theists are no less prone to suffering.
@@katelynnehansen8115 Jesus constantly was moved with compassion as well as myself. I was trying to give him a quick answer. Also the Bible is very clear the storms come to the believer and unbeliever alike. All to often the serpent slithers in and bites people and God gets the blame.
@@TheHittman47 Well, if you can put your anger and hatred aside for a second. We believe that God tests everybody differently, and that the kids that die are in a better place. Whereas an atheist would believe that their suffering is meaningless.
Well spoken and conceptualized Stephen, Religion simply has no place in the 21st century; it's more damaging to people than useful.
Yeah mate good observation, look around you at what people have become with the decline of Christianity. The thread that has held the fabric of Europe together for thousands of years, instilled morals, values and hope, and gave people a cherished collective identity. Nope, throw it all down the crapper because.. Stephen Fry
@@GunnerRDS rubbish. The less religion, the better life gets. No christian calls for slavrry, ganocide, sexual mutilation of children, holy wars and all thar religious crap. Oh less suicide bombers also.
Religion. Good riddance
@@GunnerRDS No, th sooner that religion is thrown down the crapper, the better.
@@MrThecarebear Why?
@@GunnerRDS humans have morals regardless, religious or not. It's an evolutionary benefit that religion affirms but is not responsible for
Reading the comments here convinces me more and more that people are afraid of intelligence.
Frank Heuvelman
Condescension never wins an argument.
@@mariamalhotra8228 hahha a fan of the biggest child abuse ring on earth....
Swedish judging by the name
Intelligence is and has always been a danger to the status quo.
Tout à fait!
Mankind is simply better for having people like him around.
Absolutely
Are you out of your bloody mind? He's garbage!
@@ioanpopa9473 Elaborate, you can't just say he is garbage and not offer reasoning behind your comment. My money is on you are not half as educated, intellectual and well-spoken as Stephen.
So true :)
H
Stephen Fry: you are a true gentleman and a truly open mind.
+Greg David L im curious, how do you define an open mind?
An open mind is a questioning mind. Do you take everything at face value and believe whatever is said without analysing the facts? Fox News must love you
+Greg David L Fox news must love me? Are you saying I dont have a open mind?
Did I say that you don't have an open mind...?
I thought you amplied that when you said FOX news must love me?
Very good Q & A session with an educated, articulate, rational man. I especially appreciated his view on philosophy, the afterlife and religion in general.
William Allman loved his comment about it being like a salmon
Mookie Stewart I had to re-watch part of it to know what you're referring to, but, yes, it IS quite a good analogy. I don't know how many times I'd be reading Kant or Nietzsche (or indeed any philosopher), and go "wait...what?", then have to re-read what I'd just read, think about it a bit more, then re-read it to make sure I understood what was being said.
I do appreciate his vieuw on philosophy, his vieuws on the afterlife and religion seem to be abit ill informed.
+Blacksmith
I kind of agree, he says that some people giving to charity and helping people isn't enough to redeem religion, but completely missed the fact that this is a major area which is poisoned by religion. Lots of people try to give money every single week to charity, but the church hijacks this money and instead of using it to help the poor or give the money to real charities that need it, they use it to maintain their buildings, fund priests, cover up pedophile rings and spread religious propaganda. The Catholic church, a tax exempt company with a bigger annual income than the next five richest companies combined, is not required to say where that money is going, but a few dedicated to charitable works have released such reports and they show that these churches sometimes spend up to 3% of their income on actual charity.
And even that charity is suspect, a lot of what they call charity boils down to soup kitchens that force starving people to listen to sermons to eat, missionary work in foreign countries, some water aid because a village you help is more likely to convert, the opposition to women's rights where they are needed most, campaigns to eradicate one of the most effective defense against HIV in areas where HIV is most concerning and dedicated opposition to the best cure for poverty we know, which is the empowerment of women over their own bodies.
+charimonfanboy
Thank you for your well formulated comment, they tend to be quite rare on youtube. I think we can agree that there will probably always be some form of corruption when institutionalizing religion. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, I don't think religious institutions gaining power are an exception to that rule.
However, my main point was that Fry seems unaware about some reasonable interpretations of religious vieuws on the afterlife that don't nessesarily have anything to do with religious institutions.
I'm left marveling at what kind of country we'd be enjoying if we had more Stephen Frys and George Carlins and less Jimmy Swaggerts and George W. Bushes. The level of mental and moral orthodoxy in our national consciousness is truly disheartening.
I love Stephen Fry. He is one of my heroes.
High Stepping Night Owl wow, simply wow
Same to you. Now put your nose back in your book. Singular.
@@mariamalhotra8228 As an atheist, I have much peace and joy, I love my family and marvel at the wonders of nature. I am not scared of a tyrant in the sky watching my every move; a representative of atheism didn’t convince primitive tribes in Africa that condoms are evil and multiply the spread of aids in that continent. That’s evil, immoral and despicable.
@@mariamalhotra8228 How do you know he didn't asked himself that?
@@mariamalhotra8228 Being a happy catholic doesn't make yout beliefs true or that the happiness comes from there. People of all walks of life can and do feel that way.
i dont need a god, but apparently he needs me so he sends these boring unintelligent people to knock on my door and stop me in the street, and he has this incessant need for money too which is quite weird. Do these religious burn the donations so noone can come to harm from the evil that is money?
who are you to say they're unintelligent! people like you make ME sick as athiesm is boring and meaningless. LET ME JUST REMIND YOU, just because YOU dont believe in God has absolutely NOTHING to do with intelligence ok so get off of it.
+Tina Smith If someone told you they still believed in Zeus, or that someone else said they believed in the tooth fairy to be real - you would call them stupid. Believing in the Christian God, it really has no more credibility than the previous examples, so it's just as stupid. You can be religious and be intelligent, belief doesn't require intelligence, just requires faith.
madzangels oh fgs! Anyone who puts the tooth fairy in comparison with a creator goes waaaaay down in the level of intelligence ok.
The frickin tooth fairy FYI has not been written about, for over 6000 years. The tooth fairy is not described as giving us MORALISTIC guidelines to live by such as 'love your neighbor as yourself'. So sorry, unless you are moraless, then YOU should stick with the immature comparison you made to God. GROW UP.
Faith in athiesm is empty, meaningless, mocks our given intelligence as a developing species and is depressing and boring. Faith none the less, so you then are just as flucking stupid as the believers on the other side.
+Tina Smith yep grow up cos believe in god it's so pathetic when are supposed to be smart
your bible has no morality they fuck with incest they killed or forgive if u killed but turn to god to ask forgiveness no can't say that u r fairytale book is good
you cant even speak properly fool. go away.
Every word he says I believe to be so true for me. I thought I was the only one that that this way for a long time. As brought up in Catholic culture I could never combine what i thought about life with their teachings. He being super orator and actor is able to express it so eloquently.
"Stations of the Cross
According to the method of St. Alphonsus Liguori
In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.
My Lord Jesus Christ, Thou hast made this journey to die for me with love unutterable, and I have so many times unworthily abandoned Thee; but now I love Thee with my whole heart, and because I love Thee I repent sincerely for ever having offended Thee. Pardon me, my God, and permit me to accompany Thee on this journey. Thou goest to die for love of me; I wish also, my beloved Redeemer, to die for love of Thee. My Jesus, I will live and die always united to Thee.
The Way of the Cross
First Station
JESUS IS CONDEMNED TO DEATH
V: We adore Thee, O Christ, and we praise Thee.
R: Because by Thy holy cross Thou hast redeemed the world.
Consider that Jesus, after having been scourged and crowned with thorns, was unjustly condemned by Pilate to die on the cross.
My adorable Jesus, it was not Pilate; no it was my sins that condemned Thee to die. I beseech Thee, by the merits of this sorrowful journey, to assist my soul in it journey towards eternity. I love Thee, my beloved Jesus; I love Thee more than myself; I repent with my whole heart of having offended Thee. Never permit me to separate myself from Thee again. Grant that I may love Thee always, and then do with me what Thou wilt.
Pray the Our Father, a Hail Mary, and the Glory be.
At the cross her station keeping,
Stood the mournful Mother weeping,
Close to Jesus to the last."
You know what's funny about religion?
They all think their own religion is the only true religion and every other religion is insane, but when us rationalists explain how every religion is just as insane and illogical as the other, you suddenly see all theists gang up against us.
It's quite laughable when we do it on purpose too, then point it out and then just see their reaction ^^.
If only people would realize and think about their own religion the same way they would about other religions, we'd see quite a revelation, shame people don't see this simple logical truth.
DainnX in the words of Terry Pratchett "All religions are true, for a given value of true".
There are fundamentalist nut sects who think they have a monopoly on truth, but there are also many Protestant sects that recognize that other groups are admirable, that many of the differences between denominations are trivial matters, and that they are separate because of different traditions, not serious differences of belief. As a non-Christian I am pointing out that Christian groups are not as illogical, dogmatic, or sectarian as you seem to think.
I love how when people of religious faith here things like this that are completely undisputable they get uncomfortable and lash out with insults or blasphemous remarks to make them selves feel better. Standing ovation for Stephen Frey he nailed this one if you catch my drift ;b
Cliston Mott It's exactly the opposite of what you say. Atheists and possibly Protestants would be mocking, sarcastic and name-calling but not true Catholics.
Fry has not asked himself with an open mind why many Catholics, like myself, enjoy deep peace and joy. He perpetuates what he believes is a fashionable antagonism to the Catholic Church and Judaeo-Christian ethics by extension.
I hardly call that an "open mind"; rather, disingenuous and cowardly and arrogant in the extreme.
"Greatest failing of humankind is the idea that humans need the idea of God to be moral."
What a great line!
Not that we need God to be moral, we need Him because we are incomplete without Him. He completes us. He is All in All. This same God, loves you rounak. His name is Jesus, and he had you on his mind the day he died in the cross. He endured it all for the thought of gaining you into His kingdom one day. It doesn’t matter how far you may be, his love can still reach you. He loves you in that state and condition. He’s not religion, He is a person. He’s not calling you to follow a bunch of rules. No. But He wants you to have a relationship with Him and know Him as a Father. He is alive and real. Call on to Him, He is right there with you. You’ll see.
@@ElishaBushiri Hi Johar, I understand what you're talking about - a relationship which is warm, comforting, inspiring and strengthening. When life is going fairly OK, I don't believe in God, but at times of stress, the sense of God is instinctive and inspiring.
Love this, from concept to execution, perfect video. (Well, maybe apart from the video quality, but hey, that's not the important bit here.)
This format is great - sitting a clever person down, without an overzealous interviewer interrupting every other second, and just giving the clever person a queue on what to talk about - and more importantly, NOT INTERRUPTING them. As for the content, I couldn't agree more. Stephen Fry has interesting opinions and can express himself amazingly. Thanks for the great video =)
Hedwig Art this man speaks truth
Religion inhibits progression.
+Alex Rogers I would clarify that i's dogma which inhibits progression, it just so happens most religions are inherently dogmatic. So you're half true. Some religions are less of a threat than others to progression. There are dogmatic political ideologies that inhibit progression too. But generally i agree with the sentiment.
+Alex Rogers Religion enabled progression, that's the irony. Without religion we'd still be in huts, huddled around a fire in family units and smoking herbs.
+toy mangle if you are propositioning that religion has caused quite somw wards, which have sparked a need for innovation and progress then yes, religion has sparked progress. Otherwise I think the dogmatic nature religion has on morality and knowledge on the whole has limited civilisation rather then expanded it.
+Dirk M. Schut I doubt it. Religious dogma keeps our animal side in check - are you suggesting if we followed our animal desires we'd be some fantastic, space-faring race of proto-humans? xDD
+toy mangle I'm not saying that we would be spacefaring protohumans, though to be fair, we are spacefairing, though try to keep close to our starting point for now. What I am saying is, that religious dogma has a tenedency to inhibit free thought in the sense of science taking assumptions against that very religion. situations like Galileo's moon discovery comes to mind, as well as the poercieved notion of the world being flat, even though scientists and mathematicians had calculated the earth being spherical well before that. Now I could be wrong, but I would consider that to be counteracting to the expansion of knowledge and scientific achievement.
By the way, speaking of our darker and near animalistic tendencies: it'sno secret that the Nazi's (amongst others) conducted science that would have never gone forward under religious dogma (or any sense of ethics, really). Now, please note that I am not condoning these sorts of practices, neither am I suggesting that I endorse science to the detriment of man's fellow man, or animal. What remains, regrettably, is that these expriments have furtheredscience and that the results fomr these experiments ahve afterwards been used to great effect by subsequent researchers. So, yes, the complete absence of any sort of ethics and/or religious dogma could very well have enabled us to be spacefaring protohumans.
That said, religious dogma has incited quite a number of wars, bringing out the worst in people trying to off each other and 'inspiring' people to off each other in various new, interesting and innovative ways which have helped scientistsdevice peacful applications for our further comfort.
Why do we comment on RUclips videos in all its futility?
who knows? We can debate forever. Relax - be as wholesome and kind as possible and try to enjoy yourself, says I.
whilst maintaining that supernatural obsessions from 2000 years ago aren't worth listening to just because the idea is out there.
U says right. Popeye say i am what i am and thats all i am
I watch this video when I want to be injected with a little dose of hope for humanity.
Taylor Hood ...in reply....is that the hope... there is no God,?
maybe the hope that people understand the world that we live in and maybe accept that it could not only be a benevolent god
+Fritula 6 "is that the hope... there is no God," ...your god Demands FAITH, with proof Faith has no place to exist.
Without proof, god has no place to exist.
One does not need to hope there is no god.
You have only hope that there is
Bible "truths" are a mere bread crumb trail, embellished by imagination,
fueled by fear and superstition.
Fear of a god who uses GENOCIDE as a calling card
YOU should hope he doesn't
For a smart man, he can be kind of dense...or maybe he's just self involved. I guess we usually see life from only our own pinhole perspective, but when you are trying to present yourself as an intelligent, mature and thoughtful ambassador to others, one would think that you might project beyond your own limited experience and understanding and try to empathize with those around you, or at least those you are talking to.
It seems that Mr. Fry thinks that people want to believe in a god or gods because it helps them rationalize life in some way. Perhaps that's why he believes in Evolution, but this is not so true, I think, of those on the other side of that coin. Generally speaking, of course, these people believe in god(s) because they can feel the void we call life and death, they feel the interconnection between us all and between all living things, and they are grateful for this chance they have to "be". Spirituality, I believe, at it's core, is an expression, much like art, that reflects the beauty of the believer more then anything else. And yes, to a lesser degree, the belief itself.
The most important thing for our society is NOT to Un-believe, as Mr. Fry would have it, but to believe what you will. Personally, I don't see the truth in either argument, there is none to see, just opinion and skewed "facts" twisted to fit these beliefs. As an agnostic I think it is important that both exist, not the corruption that is within them both, but the beautiful parts that draw us to them in the first place. We need MORE diversity, tolerance, and spirituality, not less, as much as we need love, intelligence and foolishness.
I think Stephen Fry would disagree with this "philosophy", at least publicly. I believe that it is better to surround ourselves with happy, amiable fools, then intelligent, unyielding assholes, any day of the week... even Sundays.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Peace and Love! Мир и Любовь! Paix et Amour! Frieden und Liebe! Paz y Amor! Pace e di Amore!
What you said about people who believe in God(s), that they do this because they feel the void of life and death and an interconnection between all living things. Well I'm an athiest and I still feel all of that. As a living thing I think it's impossible not to feel that void of life and death, it's the most basic instinct to keep us as individuals alive. And the interconnection between all living things... well evolution proves that there is an interconnection, I can admire a blade of grass knowing that I'm related to it and that we both formed from the tree of life (in the sense of a branching graph), I can admire and know the fact that our evolutionary benifits have aloud us to continue to exist... I could go on like that forever, I think you see my point.
***** I do see your point, and in some ways I agree with your point. I just don't understand how so called intelligent people can have such narrow views as to think that they have anything figured out.
To reserve the right to believe whatever you like is not only a lovely idea, it's our rights as free thinking individuals. How it begins to chap my ass and where that right ends is when we infringe on and disrespect others' rights to do the very same thing. Both sides, as if there were ever just two sides, seem hell bent on convincing the other that what they believe is the shizzle, when, I'm fairly sure, both are wrong on so many levels.
Wrong or not, though, doesn't matter a damn. I think it's important to respect people's beliefs and maybe realize that without that freedom, the freedom to believe whatever blows your skirt up, if we don't nurture this in others, we will end up as fascists and wondering how the hell Adolf Hitler got resurrected within ourselves. You understand, I sincerely don't see this type of propagandizing and one sided rhetoric as the "boisterous imparting of necessary information", but the type of derisive derivation and disrespect as the Nazi's had for the Jews, Stalin had for mankind, and Obama has for the poor. It's a slippery slope, and we should consider tolerance as a healthy substitute.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Peace and Love! Мир и Любовь! Paix et Amour! Frieden und Liebe! Paz y Amor! Pace e di Amore!
Now i more clearly understand what you were saying, yeah I agree with you, people should have the right to believe in what they want. There's something to be embraced when people dissagree with religious views, it's a sign there's still diversity. However I think you may have slightly overstated obama when comparing him to the likes of hitler haha
***** LMAO, well OK, maybe a little. Obama IS cuter.
***** What you've said seemed well thought out and was presented without ...well, without passion ...which isn't necessarily good or bad. The points you've made I would make interchangeably between what has infamously, and mysteriously, become 2 sides. Those who you say bare skepticism and open minds, I say hail from both camps and are as divergent as the universe.
Other points, I think more scientific in nature, made it sound as if you thought we might actually know things and that through structured skepticism and regiment we can progress. Our understanding of life and the universe that surrounds us is staggeringly limited and biased in nature, to put it generously. I don't see us ever moving forward in any positive way, or even noticeably forward at all, without a mixture of "both sides". One of mankind's greatest gifts, and simultaneously one of his greatest downfalls, is his beautiful capacity for emotional response. Without this "gift" I think we would have never gained purchase on this spinning, wet rock in space. Yes, it has, in those same instances, been the source of some of our greatest downfalls. Yet, one can not ask for true love and expect sanity as well.
The way I figure it is, we either find a way to balance the books, aggregate the elegance present on each side of the ledger, or we will destine ourselves to fumble forever blindly in the dark. That is until we completely bankrupt our species altogether. Light means nothing at all, not beauty nor hope nor understanding, without the dark.
A joy to explore this gentleman. Thanks for sharing this vid.
Stephen Fry is a person i get inspired by.
Wow. I never realized that, compared to other gods (Roman gods, Greek gods, Egyptian gods, etc) the Roman Catholic God is probably the most boring supernatural entity ever to have been conceived by humans, and was probably conceived by the laziest of religion-builders. The God of Abraham takes literally almost no imagination to comprehend; he is simply imbued with all of these superlatives (omniscience, omnipotence, omnibenevolence, etc.) without any rational thought as to how they might conflict with one another. This being is male, for some unexplained reason. This being literally spends most of eternity doing nothing, at some point decides to create a universe, an earth, people, animals, etc. takes seven days to do this, and then sits back down to do nothing again. Well, except to occasionally give some few individuals happiness (while allowing the rest of the planet to suffer), strike down nonbelievers, and command his followers to strike down nonbelievers and convince other people that a supernatural God exists without the slightest bit of supernatural help. He essentially leaves people to dupe themselves through coincidences and random horrific life events that there is a God, as he doesn't even care to give the slightest bit of undeniable evidence of his own existence.
Even the Greek gods were *so* much more fascinating to conceptualize. Apollo, riding in his chariot every day across the sky to bring day and night. The gods got jealous, angry, lustful, happy, mournful, and they actually had interesting, colorful interactions on earth. *These* are stories to tell your children to excite their imagination. The Bible stories just fail to ascribe any sort of unique personality to God. This guy is just not up to par on a literature perspective. And this guy is supposed to be the one and only God (all other gods humanity came up with are fakes)?
The God of Abraham is the god writers come up with when they are tired, bored, and have run out of good ideas for new deities.
dont knock it till you've studied it.
dont knock it till you've studied it.
+BattlesuitExcalibur Yea, i agree. Instead of giving their god character any form of defining character traits, the writers of the bible just make it look like he's perfect and above everything, which is incredibly lazy writing.
LeCheckmate no youre wrong. Try the account where moses is able to talk to Yhwh about not destroying the people in the desert. He doesnt do it. Try his tolerance of polygamy for a while and slavery. He just tolerated it yet set guidelines to make it fair.
Try where it states how God felt regret and how his heart was grieved during the corruption from the fallen angels. Obviously you're another one who needs a bible study!
Tina Smith And you need to stop misrepresenting the word of the bible.
The guidelines god set were in no way fair.
It's crazy that people still believe that a god exists.
Such is creation, I mean there is no one to complain about, it's what it is.
I have a quarrel with people of faith because they're holding the rest of us back!!!
Hey Samuel, Jesus loves you. Yes, you were on His mind that day he died on that cross. He endured it all for the thought of gaining you into His Kingdom one day. No matter how far you may be, His love can still reach you. Just call on to Him, He’s right there with you.
From what?
"Where is your god now?" Pure brilliance. *applause*
Not brilliant. It's merely just as emotional a reaction as he accuses Christians of having. If he does not think that Christians should see beauty in the world and thank God for it, then he cannot see what he considers ugliness and use that as an argument against God. What he says there isn't even pointing out a contradiction--which he believes it to be--its merely balancing his perceptions against theirs, and why is his any better than theirs? Because he includes more? He doesn't. He merely hasn't said what the Christians do with what he points out as distressing about the world. They have no place in this video except as straw whipping-boys for his biases. Has he quoted any? There's not even any anecdotal evidence of any serious discussion with them. He may have had some, but he does not show it.
He speaks astonishingly badly about the effects of believing in an afterlife. First, one does not accept or deny a fact or concept because of the effects that it will have. Those are quite irrelevant to truth, but he uses it as the foundation of his thought on the truth of the afterlife. Second, he's absolutely wrong about hte effects of such a belief. The existence of universities--in Europe started by churchmen and in Arabia started my Islamic scholars of which there have been many. Look at the names of the stars. Most of them are Arabic because in the Middle Ages the greatest scientists in the world were Islamic. Hospitals were built by churchmen who firmly believed in an afterlife. Even in the Early Church in Rome there were the paraboli, 'the reckless ones,' who would sacrifice themselves for others in plague-time, and it was such a popular office that some churches in some of the larger cities had to limit the number of them. The entire British school system--of which he is a product--was built originally by the medieval Church, and parts of it exist to this day.
Listen again to his description of the philosophers that he likes-he makes passing mention of some, but he misses their heart. Even when he describes Bertrand Russell, he speaks not of his philosophy, but of his history of philosophy, which is not philosophy. And he calls Kant 'simple'? He can't possibly have read him well. Try all three of his 'Critiques' and see if he's 'simple.'
This entire video is one long emotional description. There's no logic in it, no progress from proposition to conclusion. He's a very nice fellow from all that I can see, but on this he's just wrong.
@Sam But you are filtering *your* perceptions through an illogical filter that has no evidence or reason in it. You certainly show none.
@Sam So you can be logical or not depending on someone else's level of logicality? You realize that that is not logical?
@Sam _This is about you tossing aside Stephen Fry's sound logic_
OK, give an example.
I've never heard of this guy before. But I think I just fell in love a little. So intelligent and eloquent.
This man tops my list of favourite people to have as dinner guests, I could listen to Mr Fry all day. Such an incredible intellect with a 24 carat heart of gold
I'm Christian and wish that people who disagree or agree with my religion could act the way this man does towards each other . Well spoken and understanding.
I agree that the way a fair number of Christians act is ridiculous. If they acted the way they were supposed to than people would probably not have so many issues .
H Wik You start with "I'm sorry" and then dish out sarcastic insults? You need to learn the proper use of the language. Good to know that you have a blind intolerant opinion like the few people that may or may not deserve your cynicism.
***** Yup nailed it . Obviously not a sign of Christians being more accepting and tolerant . Did you catch any sarcasm there? Probably not...
Everyone fell for the bait. 10/10
H Wik
I appreciate anyone with a civil attitude and understanding, but I must agree with you here in the grand scheme of things. Christianity has zero merits in my eyes, and yes even the "Christianity makes me feel good" stuff makes my skin crawl with what it represents.
Thank you Stephen Fry, for putting my beliefs into words so beautifully. I only wish I was half as articulate as you.
he should stick to acting he is no scholar
Every time I think of myself as reasonably educated, I watch Stephen and return to reality.
Don't confuse intelligence with education.
Stephen Fry is such a brilliant thinker and speaker. It always staggers me that you are not allowed to work in Italy on a sunday!!
Pisses me off I can’t buy scotch on Sunday
Stephen Fry, you are absolutely wonderful sir keep going.
"If there were a God, he would want us to be better spirited than to take his word for everything."
What a spectacular thought!
Humans are silly..
Why is it that a secular nation finds it difficult to express it's atheism. Good stuff Stephen. Atheists are required to be vocal this side of the Atlantic.
'It's atheism'? Isn't that expecting most people to be as you'd like or as you are? Perhaps a 'secular nation' is secular in its institutions but not in its people. Don't most people believe in some kind of God?
Aristo Telian Yes your right a secular nation does not mean that the people are necessarily atheist. I know very few theists and feel that in the UK most people are atheist or mildly deistic.
Niken Perhaps that simply means that Americans are more interesting.
Aristo Telian Perhaps they don't have the bloody religious history that Europe had nor the insight of Darwin.
Mark Macdonald There's much more to it than that. The 'religious history' is seldom about religion. Study Social Identity Theory. For centuries they were members of a 'group' which usually was more national than religious. Europeans fought over territory and trade far more than over religion. Within a nation, yes, it happened that one religious monarch would persecute members of another religion, but that wasn't over religion so much as loyalty, in the same way that Stalin and Mao persecuted and killed those who had a religion at all. Join a group--socialism, capitalism, religion or atheism--and one defends it.
Not only very funny - but this man is a deep THINKER. Cambridge should be proud for being instrumental in the development of his intellect. Well done Stephen.
I think polytheism (for want of a better term) is a natural state for the human mind. As history shows, monotheists will commonly amend their canon with the likes of saints, heroes, legendary figures, and most recently, celebrity icons. Even many atheists succumb to that mindset in some form without realizing it's the same unconscious impulse driving it.
I think bread is god too.
Indomitus1973 there are around 3000 gods, most people who believe only believe in one god and not the other 2999. The athesit goes one better.
Cheers for owning virtually every argument you see on RUclips or from an apologist in one fell swoop Stephen!
Religion and belief in god has ruined my life.
If all the people on earth that belive in a God go to heaven, then heaven would become Hell. I am an atheist, I belive in mother nature, love, peace, and prosperity for all. :-)
Ha ha, lol Very funny. Many People that belive in God are corrupt and do Evil things. like kill other people in the name of God, molest children, rape ther wifes. beat there kids. ect ect, then they just ask God for forgivness and carry on with life as if they have done nothing wrong. ( not to mention all the bad things done in the past in the name of God. They also accuse ALL Atheists of being corrupt because Atheists choose not to belive in a God. No one can prove there is a God. Do You also believe in the loch ness monster, the yetee, fairies, and the father christmas. Who needs a God ( Father ) that allows so much misery on this planet and if you dont love and worship him, sends you to hell, to suffer for eternity. Would you do that to your children if they do not love and worship you.
+Jack Barr I feel very sorry for you, mate. Such a warm family have there. Please don't bring your family to hell with you.
+Visal Soun Dont worry, he's Atheist, he will keep his family away from all the religion's child abuse, misoginy and brainwashing so he will be very far from hell.
Visal Soun LOL, All religious leaders are making zombies out of their dumb sheep :-) See Video . This is hell:
facebook.com/Mr.Facebrooks/videos/906394119475022/
+shaqpopcorn34 Give me one reputable source that claims "nothing exploded and created everything".
Like coming back to this video of Stephens every so often. As he totally reflects my views on life.
LOL. The comments.
My mother is an avid christian. When she scored one of the best university entrance exam score, the newspaper article was titled "Faithful christian woman bla bla bla."
My grandmother died very early and my mother recalls the scene where grandma addled with diabetes would go to church every morning while giving ride to my mother. As a christian, she was kind, very accepting- thought it was ridiculous for the church to condemn masturbation and gays- and logical. I was a faithful christian until I entered a fundamentalist christian highschool where people who literally believed in bible word by word condemned anyone who personalize their own faith. Disgusted, I became an atheist.
When discussing religion so many people focuses on the literal concepts. In that aspect, religion is an absolute nut job. Bible is a lie, and Jesus is pretty much a made up figure. However, religion is more than the words jotted down in a paper. People personalize Jesus, they believe in the goodness of people and the world and somehow link it to Jesus. This may seem a round about approach and quite illogical, but is very powerful nonetheless. My mother endured some of the worst times of her life believing in God. Some might say she deceived herself with a made up figure, but this is demeaning. Belief is a personal thing and no matter how illogical it is it can be good and useful.
That being said, I don't think I can ever go back being a Christian again. Once you realize God and bible is not really important, but it is the act of belief-in anything- that gives us strength, it's impossible to think of God with any real trust.
To all you who are debating ON BOTH SIDES about some kind of "god" existing, let me give you a bit of sound advice. That which is neither provable, nor disprovable, is not worth pondering; it is better to assume whichever scenario is most likely.
Better to argue the likelihood of (a) god existing than argue the existence of (a) god.
That will settle things down...
Which would be that the earth was designed for life and we are morally accountable to our designer who has shown Himself to us decidedly in the person of Jesus Christ.
9pt9 Was this design natural or intelligent? ......There is no proof for either.
how can you prove that jesus christ was his son and that he did all those miracles that are written?
Thank God philosophers don't think like you! 😉
Gods love Atheists.
9:04 I wish people like Jordan Peterson, whom I appreciate for his psychological and philosophical education, would be open to such an obvious claim.
Disappointing, especially as I am a fan of Fry the comedian, writer, and public intellectual. I was hoping for something different than the standard atheist line. Too many militant atheists assume that religion was simply a stand-in for science and that as science advanced, religion waned in significance. This ignores the teleological and ethical dimensions of religion Mr Fry is right that the churches have often fouled this aspect up, but that doesn't change the fact that the quest for understanding of purpose and meaning is, as he acknowledges toward the end, a continuous human striving. I find the mechanism of nature interesting, but my inability to understand some of them did not serve as motivation to turn to religion. To simply state that these questions shouldn't be asked, as Dawkins, though not Fry, has stated is also something that "won't do". I am repelled by the anti-science leanings of some sects around today and likely as repelled by dogmatism as Fry, but I a not prepared to reject the whole field of inquiry on that basis. I also detect here a certain amount of argumentative polarization here. Religion is criticized for the views of its most extreme representatives, while the darker aspects of science aren't touched on. Science may be able to give a "natural" explanation for all phenomena experienced in the universe, but as Wittgenstein noted, that still leaves some rather important questions about the human condition untouched.
The historical record makes it clear that religion hasn't made humans good or even incapable of great evil. As a species, we are remarkably agile at rationalizing and justifying ur brutalities and excesses. On the other hand, science doesn't seem to be heading us toward the peaceable kingdom, either.
I feel sorry for the lamb
I used to be a god but then i took an arrow in the knee.
Ha ha ha how very funny.
such an admirable perspective on things! New-found love for Stephen Fry!
That was always the most confusing part of being a Catholic...I have free will, but I am unable to utilize it the way I chose...because I am innately sinful and unable to act morally without a guide. Doesn't the gift of "free" will lose meaning by that logic?
Mind reader so charming! You know how to be a thoughtful philosopher. I really enjoy your wit and wisdom!
Man this is 7 years old. I'd like to think that the 1.2 million who saw this at least saw the point of his words. What a brilliant man.
Questioning things, from the heart, is the Key. It automatically transports us to the building of Knowledge/Wisdom. It is our mission to seek the big fish amongst tiny ones inside. Those who subscribe to a tiny sliver of data, without question, might not ever make it to the gates.
I would really love nothing more than to meet this man someday.... Ok, sure I have bigger goals in life but, meeting Sir Stephen Fry would be a lovely time.
Reaching for the infinite makes us human but telling people they can actually reach it is madness.
Blood Puzzle ...in reply....
the infinite reaches out to you. He died loving you, even if you don't want him.
Erm... Stephen, Kant definitely put forward a "moral code" to tell us how to live
so did bentham, mill and aristotle. But they are merely opinions on how we should live. They are as subjective as any belief.
Righto. No idea why you think *all* beliefs are subjective though. Some are true, and objectively so.
So my belief that 1+1=2 is just as subjective as my belief in moral matters, for instance? Come off it.
By defining all beliefs as subjective, you're just mudding the waters and making clear conversation hard for no particular reason.
But is my *belief* that 1+1=2 objective, or subjective? Or my *belief* that all bachelors are unmarried?
It seems to be that the truth of these propositions has nothing to do with personal inclination or attitude.
The vast majority of self-deceived people like vain arguments like Fry's and what he thinks is his relevant and fashionable antagonism to the Catholic Church. The Church loves all people and cares for their happiness. It condemns homosexuality the behaviour, not the homosexual. It does not condemn behaviour that it doesn't prescribe a cure for:
www.truechristianity.info/en/articles/article0181.php
I am an atheist and it still makes me smile when I tell people and they look at me like a devil worshiper. Not understanding that also don't believe in the devil.. lol. I do still fully respect other peoples beliefs and like to listen to them. It s bonus of a non believer that you have no need to defend a belief so can respect others.
i never noticed his nose. Now I can't stop staring at it...
Religion is like dogs laughing at cats for praying to god for mice to fall from the sky when everyone knows that when you pray to god what falls from the sky are bones!
what happened to his nose?
Pretty sure he was born with it. Throughout his party days, his nose allowed him to snort extra amounts of coke, his nose is a gift for a coke head.
M'aiq the Liar think he used to box at Cambridge.
He actually fell over when he was a child and never got it fixed. Didn’t want to
It is not logical to assume there is no afterlife. It is logical to make the best of the time we have on earth, but making massive speculative leaps is never a logical conclusion.
Has anybody ever considered the enormous problem if there is an afterlife. All those trillions upon trillions of bodies in some form, where are they? in heaven or hell, what a stupid notion. Who in their right mind could possibly embrace such a notion.
Yes, but maybe if there is they are only minds, not bodies, and there is a lot of "cosmic" real estate.
While I don't subscribe to the notion of an afterlife and I personally think it is a bit childish, I don't understand how you cannot understand why one would not like the idea. Death is final, and that can be very scary. The idea that you can go to a perfect place with all your dead loved ones and be happy for eternity is an extremely comforting idea. It's just an easy way out, but totally understandable.
It would make more sense to return to one mind after you die.
If you believe in that sort of thing. Which I don't.
Love Planet Earth I am reminded of that old song of yesteryear where one line is "I swear there ain't no heaven, but I pray there ain't no Hell." lets face it, no one [well not that I know of] has ever come back to tell us.
john brown Well... There was this guy named Jesus....
Choosing the nice bits has been the standard practice of those who have been upholding the Bible as the quintessential guide for their theism. Many scriptures, in particular the Old Testament, have been advocating such heinous acts as stoning disobedient children and describing castration as precluding entrance to Heaven.
Not stoning disobedient children. Don't depend on second-hand knowledge. Study the meaning of the words and look up parallel passages to see if it actually says that. You'll find that it does not. The words and like texts show that the 'son' (it never says 'child') is grown, he's a violent drunk, and the village elders must judge his punishment, but it's up to them to determine it. The capital punishment is an option, but it is not mandatory (No 'three strikes' law, either). There is also no record of this punishment ever being carried out.
Now, shall we go to the New Testament, with it's 'love your neighbor' or even 'love your enemy' (when was the last time you did that?), and show how primitive that is.
***** What are you talking about ?
***** You confuse modern sensibilities with universal moralities. I believe another term for that is 'chronological snobbery,' or 'why hasn't everybody in history done as we do today?'
If we went back in history and talked to those folks, would they agree with us?
And how do we get people to change long-held cultural beliefs?
The beliefs that people had once upon a time were quite different from ours, but all times have been fallen. We know something about this--it's what makes the world so untidy and dangerous. Any time that people get involved, the result is a mess. We can straighten it out (more or less) eventually, but it's a crooked road getting there.
So the world is fallen and bent, including the world of the ancient Middle East. How to fix that? Baby steps. Anything larger and people won't listen. Example: Socrates. Tiberius Gracchus. Or the prophet Jeremiah, who had the king's blessing to go tear down altars to Molech and Ashur, and the people of some of the towns with such altars tried to kill him.
Baby steps--the only way for lasting change.
So the Bible starts out with small changes, such as a fair trial, two or more witnesses, incontrovertible proof. Inculcating a love of the truth in spite of one's wishes is dificult in modern times. Here we're dealing with an ancient Bronze Age society.
Jesus said about divorce that it was never supposed to exist, but because people insist on it, then it must be done under certain constraints. Stoning is the same way.
You'll notice that Israel grew out of it? It seems to have worked.
***** You obviously did not read my post. That makes your implication that you have read the Bible suspect.
Take out 'I believe,' then. Take out that whole sentence. The meaning of the post doesn't change, which means that 'I believe' is not the key word in the text.
***** Humans created the slavery they later had to abolish--except that in some places it still exists.
While your question is an interesting mental exercise, it's still speculation, so we must go carefully in it.
It depends on where one was at the time. In the Code of Hammurabi, nobles were treated differently--better--from common people. After the Neolithic Revolution, patriarchy arose and strengthened all over the world (less so in some places, but it existed everywhere). In China during the Han Dynasty, people were confined in occupational boxes not much less strict than the caste/jati system of India. Rome was at least one-third slaves, slavery was all over Africa during the Axum/Ghana/Mali empires, in Athens women were strictly confined to the home and in Sparta women were soldier-baby producers.
So I really don't think that we can say with certainty that life would have been any better without the Church or the Bible, because it wasn't all that great in places that didn't have either.
And of course I have heard of a revolution, but people get killed in revolutions. Rome's three Servile Wars, the wars prompted by the death of Tiberius Gracchus, the French Revolution, the October Revolution, Syria today.
Only those who have not lived through one would speak of one so easily.
You think you're a comedian. When i fact you're a philosopher, and a realist.
Magnífico librepensador.
Si pudiera contactar con el señor Fry de algún modo le recomendaría esto:
www.fdrurl.com/UPBPDF
He misses the point of Buddhism completely, though. Buddhism is not about being nice or whatever... It's just about dealing with one's own pain and suffering. It's a way of life. It's not a philosophy. And it doesn't pretend to be a philosophy. In the same way that you may be a vegetarian and still ask philosophical questions. Though some might treat it as a religion, I admit. I don't consider my religion to be Buddhism. Buddhism doesn't have a god or divine being or whatever.
+Aditya C congrats, can you get all the other buddhist to agree with you.
"Buddhism doesn't have a god or divine being or whatever." Especially this one.
I'm not Buddhist. I'm atheist. As I said, I don't consider my religion to be Buddhism. I don't align myself with any religion. I just understand what Buddhism is.
But I find his strange feeling that western thought is somehow superior to eastern thought, is strange, as I said, but also troubling, especially for somebody, who often claims to be enlightened.
Aditya C If you say that you understand what Buddhism is why do so many Buddhist disagree then with you?
Where? I haven't received any notifications for anybody who has tagged me in any comment, showing that they disagree...
Further, Buddhism DOESN'T have a god. This is a classical tenant of Buddhism. It is the reason why, originally, Siddhartha Gautama did not want his figure to be made into a statue. Usually, only footprints, or such. The idea was that "everybody is/ could be Buddha."
Further, this explains why much of early Buddhist writing is without identified author. It's bad practice to identify one's self or take ownership. Rather, use pseudonyms or leave the writing without putting a name on the writing itself.
Now, of course, as time went on, people started making sculptures of him. (see Ghandara sculptures)
Authors started to claim authorship for their works.
While I am unaware of any Buddhists, who disagree with me, in this RUclips comment thread, I am certain that many Buddhists still disagree. But I think one would have a hard time showing me Buddhist literature, in which there is any mention of a creator god, or a personal god, of any form or shape.
Aditya C Wow what a long comment for a simple question.
I am asking why other buddhist do not agree with you? especially the divine being thing. You know those lovely devas and daemons, and more.
What I am saying is that your opinion is hardly universal. Your understanding of bhudism I could not accept as correct, until you shown evidence. And considering its a "philosphy" or a religion you will not be able to do that.
I realized Stephen's nose is crooked and couldn't stop staring at it. I need sleep.
Blunt Politics no one cares
How can anyone really know WTH is going on with this world? Preposterous.
i wanna have dinner with this man and share notes whilst we drink a brandy and indulge in some french cheeses... no homo
Woah, I just noticed how wonky his nose is!
its not, you just cant see the bullet proof glass he is pressed up against, he is like a pope to us atheist and needs protection too lol
Stephen Fry was a catholic, went to public school, is a homosexual, lived through times when catholics, public schoolboys and homosexuals were beaten and abused physically and mentally. It's not surprising that he is now trying to hurt all religion which he likens to catholicism. I'm guessing the broken nose came from one of these beatings. Sad really. BUT we shouldn't be fooled his sugar coated message of hate.
Ralph Zimmermann Methinks you defendeth his nose too strenuously. I didn't say anything that wasn't true, do your own research everybody. Like I say it is rather sad. I don't think he's a buffoon I think he's a stooge.
+Ralph Zimmermann Someone else brought up the subject of his nose. I can sympathise with him, mine is not the best nose in the world. If you had a choice you would not pick it. I suggested that being raised in a time of hatred of, and violence towards homosexuality, a time of violence and abuse towards smaller, younger public school pupils and a time of abuse towards catholic children by priests and catholic officials probably has a lot to do with the shaping of his nose and his character. He is also a very accomplished performer, he draws you in with his quiet vulnerability and then uses his position of intimacy with the viewer in an attempt to destroy their faith. He is not a very nice person.
+Ralph Zimmermann Would you agree that believing something doesn't exist is a belief? If you believe there is no water in a swimming pool that is a belief? If you believe there is no God, a belief which you cannot prove, is a blind belief?
I bet the guy who broke his nose follows him so he can be reminded of his handiwork.
Yes, the guy does follow him everywhere he goes, even in the toilet and shower. Every time Stephen looks in the mirror, he faces the person who broke his nose. Unless you count the concrete he fell on when he was six.
Is that the actual story?
Mark Smith Yes. Why, did you think (or hope) someone had broken it?
www.bbcnordic.com/qi/stephen-fry/ - under 'Hooter'.
Seems like a more likely story
Mark Smith What does? Him being punched? Being more likely is irrelevant to the reality.
The Pope was arguing with an Atheist about the existence of God and failing to get his point across. They had been arguing for two hours and finally the Pope in frustration sat down.
"Listen," said the Pope, "You are like a man in a dark room, with no lights and windows, wearing a blindfold looking for a black cat that isn't there. What do you say to that?"
The Atheist thought for a moment.
"Yes your Holiness, you are probably right," he said, "but you are also like a man in a dark room, with no lights and windows, wearing a blindfold looking for a black cat that isn't there. The only difference is, you have found the cat."
Dave Allen nailed the issue with this joke. IMHO I'm happy to strive to do my sorry best for those around me by lighting a match instead of cursing the infinitely dark question of God. Not believing in a monotheistic God does not preclude someone being a decent, loving spiritual human being. Being the latter is challenging enough.
I find it laughable that Stephen Fry think it's 'beautiful' and 'charming' that someone could believe in many gods, yet believing in one God is 'really ghastly' and a staggering 'misapprehension'. Believing in anything supernatural requires a leap of faith, thanking one entity or several does not make it more or less charming, it looks like another attempt by Stephen Fry to belittle modern religion.
It is charming and beautiful because it's an easy to understand concept. For each thing that you fail to understand, you assign a deity to it and use that deity as your explanation until a better explanation is found. Its a beautiful picture of human's ignorance, and as we proceed to understand more of what's around us, those deities fade away, as they're no longer of use. Assigning one deity to everything, however, is quite a difference. Having one deity responsible for all leave you no room for learning and exploring, they leave you no opportunity to replace that one deity with the knowledge that you accumulate. I must say that having a monotheist belief is a rather lazy and irresponsible answer the the questions of life compare to polytheist, and also very dull and lacking of imagination. If you're going to play with your own mind anyway, why not make it a bit more colorful and diverse?
But believing in one God is an easy concept too, even easier I'd say. And I agree that using a deity as an explanation until a better explanation is found is more respectable, but that thought process is not necessarily an offshoot of polytheism nor exclusive to it. Many religious people have discovered great things, and replaced their deity with the knowledge they have accumulated. And monotheistic have faded away, Zoroastrianism for example. If monotheism religions had died out and polytheism was widespread today I imagine Stephen Fry would be saying the opposite in this video.
I would argue the difference, as most religions in history, polytheism or monotheism, have died out because of another religion and often not because of new knowledge and discovery. Beside, from what's Fry said in the video, it does not seem to be a specific attack to modern religions and monotheism, but rather a difference in point of view that lead to an inability to understand, just like how most religious people seem to fail to understand why not a lot more people share their same belief. He does not understand/sympathize with religious people, especially monotheists. To accuse his opinion as a pre-designed attack is rather hasty and harsh.
he does not say that believing in multiple gods is more truth-based, but only that he sees why it is psychologically understandable that some people would embrace that perspective.
Gerry McAveety
Doubt it, what Stephen Fry has always been against is the fact religion is a product of man, hence manipulated by the will of man. Of course it can lead to positive effects, but it's also an excuse for those to justify their own bias - homophobia, for example.
And since it's almost unnecessary to point out good deeds are not exclusive to the will of religion, but rather a more natural product of human rationality and morality, why should religion be allowed to exert influence in the modern political world only to reassert thousands years old agendas?
Jesus loves me. This I know, for the bible tells me so.
Bioshock is amazing
my balls are blazing
I was kidding. Screw jesus.
if Jesus told u personally then maybe i would be a believer
Even if he tells you that it's pronounced: "Hey-soos"?
I used to like Stephen Fry but he's gone from national treasure to national bore.
he was muttering half of this!! it's quite amusing when he gets things wrong on qi though specially when he's just beliilted alan davies for not getting it right (more so when alan is actually right)
DJMattEmpathy That may be part of the act.
It's totally part of the act. As Fry has said Davies is one of the smartest people he knows. Hey! it's a game show!
Yea, that's happens when you don't agree with people.
If you're a christian why watch a speech about unbelief (head scratch...)
Yeah a lot of it is an act, I know sometimes they let things go out even when they know they're wrong e.g. when Fry said helium changes the frequency of your voice but not the pitch, they knew that's nonsense but let it go to air anyway.
Also if you're a Christian or whatever of course you should watch videos that have other opinions or are you someone who only listens to opinions you already agree with? Now THAT is pointless.
Unbelief ?
I disbelieve that
Excellent vid
The importance of unbelief in false stories and supernatural BS should not be undervalued. But you have to be careful, because as soon as you call yourself an "unbeliever" its easy to become close-minded and bound. You have to admit that some kind of "higher" and more powerful force has to exist. We are just semi-smart little animals on a planet that is microscopic in relation to the infinite universe, something bigger is in control, we dont even have free will no matter how much we want to believe it. If we have free will, why arent everybody happy and peaceful all the time? Excactly, something else is in control. What it is, i dont know. Its not a god in the sky like religions say, but there is something higher out there. Google *Truthcontest* and read *The Present*. What is said will change everything.
Por qué no está Michael Smith declaró un genio?
agreed.. no labels, just open mind and honesty
Baloney. It's called SCIENCE. I do not believe there is a higher power to create such an anomaly as our situation. I do believe there is other life out there, but to confine the works of this amazing Universe to any higher power is not giving true respect to this amazing situation science created. Doing so is truly being close minded. Only an open minded person can see as such.
"You have to admit that some kind of "higher" and more powerful force has to exist." Actually no, we don't. There is no evidence such a thing exists. The only things we have to admit exist are the things for which there is solid evidence. To believe something without evidence is called gullibility. A truly open minded and honest person will say they don't know how or why something happened and will investigate without simply saying something has to be or has to exist.
Well obviously the odds of us being alone in the universe is close to zilch. But a higher power?! We do not have to automatically assume that there is a super being or anything of that sort. Thats where it all derails. If calling one self is a non-believer is close minded, i dont want to be open minded. Imagine a world were you had to believe your car didnt come apart at random, or boats that stopped floating at random. Science is the only awesome thing we ever discovered, it's pure, and doesn't care wether it will be proven wrong down the line, if anything it encourages to be proven wrong so that it will become perfected or scrapped for whatever reasons. Even when its proven wrong it's progress. Science is something that is truely remarkable, its uncorruptable, it has build all the things you have in your daily life ! We can even tell such mundane things as the weather, imagine telling that to people 300 years ago. Buildings are not made by magic, planes dont stay in the air on hope and prayer, earth is not a magical planet, just a string of luck and probabilities. We live in a world where information thrives, sadly we also still thrive to encourage greed, so misinformation is still knowingly spread. Philosophy is interresting but even that challenges particularities in the highest regards.. religion does not challenge itself, It only limits your mind.
How's this for a philosophy, believe what you want, the end the afterlife is what you think and believe it'll be, but until then, don't be a bastard and try to generally be nicer to people. In this day an age I'm SICK and TIRED of people fighting between religion or science, belief and logic. In my opinion we need both. BOTH Logic to give us absolute answers to questions, and belief for the bigger questions, for the more ... you know. If you believe in God, Allah, Buddah, Optimus Prime, or whoever is being worshiped in this modern age, then they'll exist. Who knows maybe in the grander scale of things, God has been giving us the turn about, allowing us to find the science to his methods or whatever. Just can we all get along and stop trying to get on each others nerves?
That's impossible when people are trying to push their own agenda, force their rules on others or conduct violence because they believe they have a particular God on their side. You said we need religion for the bigger questions... ? Religion does not answer any of the bigger questions, only science does. Religion only offers assumptions and excuses about the Unknown. So of course there will always be a debate between those that only accept factual truth and those that make the truth up.
Look mate, you've just done what I'm hoping people will stop doing. Can we just quit arguing and get on with it? Believe what you want, be it a deity or be it a scientific text book, lets just get one with life.
I myself, am religious to a point, but right now, I don't care who's right or who could be wrong.
Religion doesn't just offer assumptions and excuses it gives people hope for a better place after we leave this world, and see our loved ones once again.
Saying one person is right for believing one thing and someone else is wrong for believing another doesn't get us anywhere.
I could go on, and on, but the fact is, I can't be arsed. I just want to live my life, without someone ridiculing me for believing in a deity when they believe in science. I wish I could just tell them to leave me the fuck alone but I can't.
Can the arguments end?
JasonAlexVoorhees You sound like you're too lazy or too ignorant to consider the issues at hand. You have ignored my opening sentence. Of course, people use religion as a source of happiness, purpose and companionship, but then there are those that use it for control, murder, intolerance. You obviously don't care about those issues because you just want to brush the whole thing under the carpet. Of course people are going to disagree with you if you believe in something that has no scientific evidence to back it up. But the truth is you are allowed to believe what you want to believe and no one is stopping you. What atheists are trying to do is promote Reason and Logic over Blind Faith.
I don't know what you mean by "get on with it" When Al-Qaeda flew planes into the twin towers did we say "oh get on with it" ? When religious people are trying to put their beliefs into government to make homosexuals second class citizens, ban abortion, teach the Book of Genesis literally to children... shall we say "Oh get on with it".
Get on with it. Life. We need to get on with life sure 9-11 with catastrophic, it was possible the worst thing to happen in a very long time. And I think your taking my comment to wrong way. I can understand the misinterpretation, I didn't make myself perfectly clear, so my fault in that regard.
And sure, I'll agree, a lot of religious people are nuts, trying to enforce their religion upon others and shoot and kill and blow themselves up for their belief, which is terrible and ruins the reputation of people of that race. At times i think those people use religion as an excuse to blow shit up. Like man has used God to wage war with himself for centuries.
And no I did not ignore your comment, nor am I ignorant nor lazy, I'm fed up is what i am. I'm fed up of people arguing, I'm fed up of people hating, I'm fed up of people trying to enforce their point of view upon others who think or believe differently.
I can appreciate logic and reasoning. I'm all for logic and reasoning. Without it we wouldn't be where we are today, I get and understand that. I just hate it when Atheists belittle me and make fun of me for believing in something which is beyond logic and reason.
I don't go up to people telling them to worship anyone or anything, so I don't see why they should to me.
But mind thee, maybe I'm just encountering bad examples of Atheists, it's just all of my friends are one religion or another, Catholic, Muslim, Buddhist, whatever. And we get along great.
I know, people will never agree between Science and Religion, between Logic fact and Belief. But it's just sad, it makes me sad. I watched two friend fall out because one got religion and the other was only for science. They'd been so close before. But then.
I can understand people not believing in Gods, humans always want a logical explanation for everything, we want to know the Universe and all of it's secrets. And when we have science, Religion doesn't have much room left for us.
JasonAlexVoorhees I understand the sentiment of what you are trying to express, but we live in a world which is shaped by not only our own, but also other peoples beliefs and opinions. Therefore it is not as easy as saying let people believe what they want, because that could impact your life or any number of other peoples. People argue and push their ideas because they believe they are right, and probably helping other people. As long as we are receptive to this market place of ideas and engage in rational discourse we keep moving forwards.
I'm not saying people should belittle you or anyone else in an ad hominem way, but there massive logical inconsistencies with many beliefs that should be highlighted, because these show they are most likely wrong. If we don;t highlight and express reason to doubt bad ideas, we will loose the ability to identify good ones from bad ones at all, and regress.
A WORD FROM GOD
I Thirst for You
"Behold, I stand at the door and knock… (Rev. 3, 20)
It is true. I stand at the door of your heart, day and night. Even when you are not listening, even when you doubt it could be Me, I am there. I await even the smallest sign of your response, even the least whispered invitation that will allow Me to enter.
And I want you to know that whenever you invite Me, I do come - always, without fail. Silent and unseen I come, but with infinite power and love, and bringing the many gifts of My Spirit. I come with My mercy, with My desire to forgive and heal you, and with a love for you beyond your comprehension - a love every bit as great as the love I have received from the Father ("As much as the Father has loved me, I have loved you…" (Jn. 15:10) I come - longing to console you and give you strength, to lift you up and bind all your wounds. I bring you My light, to dispel your darkness and all your doubts. I come with My power, that I might carry you and all your burdens; with My grace, to touch your heart and transform your life; and My peace I give to still your soul.
I know you through and through. I know everything about you. The very hairs of your head I have numbered. Nothing in your life is unimportant to Me. I have followed you through the years, and I have always loved you - even in your wanderings. I know every one of your problems. I know your needs and your worries. And yes, I know all your sins. But I tell you again that I love you - not for what you have or haven’t done - I love you for you, for the beauty and dignity My Father gave you by creating you in His own image. It is a dignity you have often forgotten, a beauty you have tarnished by sin. But I love you as you are, and I have shed My Blood to win you back. If you only ask Me with faith, My grace will touch all that needs changing in your life, and I will give you the strength to free yourself from sin and all its destructive power.
I know what is in your heart - I know your loneliness and all your hurts - the rejections, the judgments, the humiliations, I carried it all before you. And I carried it all for you, so you might share My strength and victory. I know especially your need for love - how you are thirsting to be loved and cherished. But how often have you thirsted in vain, by seeking that love selfishly, striving to fill the emptiness inside you with passing pleasures - with the even greater emptiness of sin. Do you thirst for love? "Come to Me all you who thirst…" (Jn. 7: 37). I will satisfy you and fill you. Do you thirst to be cherished? I cherish you more than you can imagine - to the point of dying on a cross for you.
I Thirst for You. Yes, that is the only way to even begin to describe My love for you. I THIRST FOR YOU. I thirst to love you and to be loved by you - that is how precious you are to Me. I THIRST FOR YOU. Come to Me, and I will fill your heart and heal your wounds. I will make you a new creation, and give you peace, even in all your trials I THIRST FOR YOU. You must never doubt My mercy, My acceptance of you, My desire to forgive, My longing to bless you and live My life in you. I THIRST FOR YOU. If you feel unimportant in the eyes of the world, that matters not at all. For Me, there is no one any more important in the entire world than you. I THIRST FOR YOU. Open to Me, come to Me, thirst for Me, give me your life - and I will prove to you how important you are to My Heart.
Don’t you realize that My Father already has a perfect plan to transform your life, beginning from this moment? Trust in Me. Ask Me every day to enter and take charge of your life. - and I will. I promise you before My Father in heaven that I will work miracles in your life. Why would I do this? Because I THIRST FOR YOU. All I ask of you is that you entrust yourself to Me completely. I will do all the rest.
Even now I behold the place My Father has prepared for you in My Kingdom. Remember that you are a pilgrim in this life, on a journey home. Sin can never satisfy you, or bring the peace you seek. All that you have sought outside of Me has only left you more empty, so do not cling to the things of this life. Above all, do not run from Me when you fall. Come to Me without delay. When you give Me your sins, you gave Me the joy of being your Savior. There is nothing I cannot forgive and heal; so come now, and unburden your soul.
No matter how far you may wander, no matter how often you forget Me, no matter how many crosses you may bear in this life; there is one thing I want you to always remember, one thing that will never change. I THIRST FOR YOU - just as you are. You don’t need to change to believe in My love, for it will be your belief in My love that will change you. You forget Me, and yet I am seeking you every moment of the day - standing at the door of your heart and knocking. Do you find this hard to believe? Then look at the cross, look at My Heart that was pierced for you. Have you not understood My cross? Then listen again to the words I spoke there - for they tell you clearly why I endured all this for you: "I THIRST…"(Jn 19: 28). Yes, I thirst for you - as the rest of the psalm - verse I was praying says of Me: "I looked for love, and I found none…" (Ps. 69: 20). All your life I have been looking for your love - I have never stopped seeking to love you and be loved by you. You have tried many other things in your search for happiness; why not try opening your heart to Me, right now, more than you ever have before.
Whenever you do open the door of your heart, whenever you come close enough, you will hear Me say to you again and again, not in mere human words but in spirit. "No matter what you have done, I love you for your own sake Come to Me with your misery and your sins, with your troubles and needs, and with all your longing to be loved. I stand at the door of your heart and knock. Open to Me, for I THIRST FOR YOU…"
Congratulations on your ability to 'Copy & Paste'.
I would have liked to congratulate you on your reasoning, or your ability to debate, but sadly cannot do so, as you have contributed nothing original, or anything of yourself.
One primitive defence is to split good from bad, then idealise the good bits and deny and project the bad. It can be seen in some religions, everything is perfect, we are all good, but other people are bad. Integration of both is the challenge. We learn more from people who annoy us than anyone else. Own the bad bits, they are in us all. Well said Stephen. Spot on.
If he doesn't want to believe in God, that's his choice. Many people do believe, however. I find it interesting that he and others like him spend so much energy and time discussing an entity in whom they don't believe or have faith.
+Paul Metzger LOL, are you seriously implying media personalities discussing their atheistic standpoint somehow betray a secret belief in the existance of a bronze age Jewish sky daddy.??? Surely, admitting one's blind faith in a supernatural "creator"would enhance rather than detract from one's prospects within the entertainment industry, or could it be traditional conformist religious adherence is past its sell by date???
+Paul Metzger All that is needed for evil, I mean religion, to triumph is that rational men do nothing.
You don't know me from Adam. How do you know that I am irrational?
+Paul Metzger Read your comment...
Nothing I have said is irrational.
The fool has said in his heart ' There is no God'
How trite can you get?
Mr Fry is many things, but no fool he.
Well then that's that, isn't it? The Bible says that only fools deny god, so there's obviously no point going on is there. It clearly doesn't matter how intellectually and philosophically sound your reasons are; if you don't believe then you are simply a fool.
How self righteous do you have to be to make a claim like that? It's basically the Bible saying "I'm right about everything. I won't prove it but if you disagree with me then you are stupid. (sticks out tongue in childish fashion)"
***** Sorry Tim, The quote is from Psalm 14 v1.... Using your own translation says thousands of years of history of people of faith are wrong and the self appointed messenger of wisdom Mr Fry is right. In my view Stephen Fry would be more truthful to say " I hope there is no God because if there is, I'm in trouble"
***** The fool hath said in his heart there is no God....
Your argument assumes that the people you are reviling are people uneducated and have not struggled themselves with difficult passages. The difference is Tim they have taken time to dig deeper into the context of why these things were written .
Your rant about biblical translation and interpretations etc shows that you choose to believe it rather than engaged in study to find if it's true.
On your final remark Tim, we both know that you can says these things to Christians without fear of a violent response. There is a selective rage when discussing this issues of the existence of God.
Your response demonstrates that you have never seriously sought to discover the truth of the existence of God but rather like Stephen Fry hope there is no God because if there is ................................?
***** Oh Tim, I would like to sit down with you over a coffee or share some fish and chips on a park bench and discus this most important of all topics (that's what somebody did with me when I presented your arguments nearly 50 years ago) but since that is not possible there is a limit to how long this discussion can continue.
When I speak of selective rage I an referring more to the plain fact that people are completely safe in railing against the God of the bible but rather more careful not to spout the same kind of blasphemies against Allah....
I like what old John Wesley said of Christians...."They die well". In the end, that speaks volumes to me. It makes interesting reading the last words of saints and sinners..... Quite challenging....Readily available on line... My last comment on this blog. Kind Regards Linda.