Reminds me of when snute did a zvp against a mass phoenix guy. He just ignored the phoenixes and built drones so fast that they didn't have enough energy to kill all the drones lol
@@graverobber575 @@graverobber575 Throw some lings at their economy, also, being maxed out means you don't need minerals for units, so more hatches mean faster remaxxing
@@graverobber575 His biggest issue was lacking larva to remax with, so macro hatches would've helped with that. Harstem's injects aren't the best when he's in late game mode. Not a knock on him, he doesn't main zerg and it's hard to keep injecting in that situation. He also just stopped expanding which seems a bit odd when his bases would get mined out quicker than usual. He almost threw a game he was way ahead on lol
As a random with a really crappy Zerg, this is basically my playstyle. Pumping waves of drones is just so satisfying compared to how Terran and Protoss train them so slowly.
@@inmundo6927 at the cost of your army legit against my protoss Harstem is dead because at 5 minutes i am hitting you with 8 gate charge lot and with 0 units your just dead
and that is why your zerg is crappy in truth zerg don't build drones faster then terran or protoss they actually build them slower Protoss warps in nexus builds probe, ques prob Terran builds Command Center builds scv, ques scv Zerg morphs into Hatchery, spawns larva then morphs 1st larva into drone, waiting for 2nd larva to spawn to morph into drone see the difference Terran and protss go straight to into building and queing while the zerg has to literally wait for the larva to exist to morph it into a drone, they can't que a damn thing up this makes zerg harder to play because you need vision to play zerg, you need to be able to see where you are and where your going and how to get there, you lack any of these 3 things and your zerg is doomed s to suck forever you play zerg and know it sucks because you do the same thing over and over again and the only thing that separates the sane and the insane is, expecting a different result while doing the exact same thing over and over again, so my question to you is are you doing the exact same thing over and over again while expecting a different result? and if you are then you are insane
@@ShelbySigouin This is copypasta worthy. No way anyone is this pent up and triggered over people stating obvious things like droning being the fastest way to pump workers, which is why in standard pro games, zerg is supposed to stay ahead in workers. That last paragraph is especially deranged, like who are you talking to bro?
Zerglings are good for this as well, since they out run tempests and can escape easier, and can also burrow. Roaches work better though for the health factor -- well done harstem. About the only thing I could have seen you do is more drops when they where not at home, even just 6 zerglings in a dropper lord could have prevented his very last move out. But regardless an amazing game well done. When you had 6k minerals in the bank, you should have also spammed hatcheries across the map to prevent expansions and to win the base race. You can also use a dropper lord a normal creep spread overlord and a queen to put creep tumors in his base to prevent buildings from being replaced as easily. And you could also use changlings on hold position to block the ramp as you have done in the past. Another neat trick with mass drone is banelings since they release the supply cap faster then other units, and are expensive on gas but more easily controlled then mutas, if your muta micro isnt up to par. Remember, you can spread out your mutas into groups of 4 or 5 and once you have 20 you can hit every where and micro every where in 4 places as once while keeping spines and lurkers at home, when they go carriers just use corruptors instead. But if your muta micros bad then banelings might help you more. Pretty sick game, was very enjoyable to watch.
At the end, there is visible, that the prottos has observer in the bottom left corner of the screen. Good call that Harstem didn't suicided his hydras for getting the Oracle.
bgmwss idea: secret army mass army units in a hidden area of the map until they reach a combined 60 supply (adjust this as you see fit) they can defend themselves if they are attacked, but are not allowed to stray too far. if they get scouted, you may move them to a new location but they cannot attack while being moved. only after reaching the supply threshold can you use them for tactical purposes “Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.” - unknown chinese general
in the first game you say its not great to lose a few drones and get attacked by the first oracle/adepts, however i would imagine you trading your tech and early units for drones means you trading a few drones for his army lessens the strength of the inevitable midgame attack. objectively a good thing for a zerg with 100 drones and queens to defend. I think you have relatively good defence early midgame when toss gets his first tech units out.
Question: Why didnt he clear protoses entire main when the entire army of protos was clearing his base? Couldnt he have won much sooner if he destroyed all buildings when he had the army there?
I was wondering that too. There was a good minute he was wandering around the middle of the map when he could've easily just cleared Protoss's main. Made it very close. The only thing I could imagine was that he knew the toss was supply blocked and thus couldn't make anything. And he didn't think he would win based off eliminating all buildings condition.
I have a weird thought. I saw some tournament matches TvZ against Serial. Both players started with cloak banshees and failed. I was thinking what would happen if Interference Matrix Ravens instead. They are the same price, and the Ravens have more health and starting armor, and the queens should be able to IM them. Should be able to keep them alive easier, and later they should have with creep and burrowed units.
No, that's just worse. The #1 reason to open with banshees is that they provide safety vs roach allins and later give you map vision and runby safety. Ravens don't provide any of that. They are also just worse as an opening unit as they don't force spores, which are quite costly for zerg in the earlygame.
I used to play 3v3s with my friends. I played zerg and only built drones queens and hatcheries. I pumped all resources to my allies. It was kinda funny. I wonder if pros could use something like this in 3v3s or such.
I feel like once you saw him going air mass corruptor with the lurkers you already had would have won pretty hard. Just leapfrog forward like you're terran
no units until 100 drones so no need for speed. runs out of gas. slow zerglings base trading at 23min. idk if that was the best call, honestly might still be
Meh. Nice idea but poorly executed. Were it Serral he will end the game after hitting the 100 drone mark in 3 minutes by blowing up everything with banelings or something.
@@mothrahlurker788any decent protoss would do some kind of stalkers early aggression poke or adepts glaives timing, and if they see opponent have no units from the early poking , they will def go for the ending. they wouldnt sit around and let zerg fully saturated 4 base. Moeron is not wrong.
Am I right that Zerg should be able to get to 400 drones without a single overlord? Hatcheries only till 200 and than Clem's APM to get 200 spores morphing, 200 drones and a huge spore cancel? I'm too lazy to check. Nevermind, disregard my comment, let's rephrase: ACTUALLY
Most normal Zerg opener
yeah, like Queens aren't "units". They only defend against EVERYTHING... ...
The classic 100 workers into 30 minutes of base trading.
Reminds me of when snute did a zvp against a mass phoenix guy. He just ignored the phoenixes and built drones so fast that they didn't have enough energy to kill all the drones lol
5000 minerals!, hate to say it, but you should get a macro hatch
He was maxed out almost the entire time
@@Stardash81which should reinforce the need to get it more
@@DaRealLegacy how exactly does a macro hatch help when you cant make new units?
@@graverobber575 @@graverobber575 Throw some lings at their economy, also, being maxed out means you don't need minerals for units, so more hatches mean faster remaxxing
@@graverobber575 His biggest issue was lacking larva to remax with, so macro hatches would've helped with that. Harstem's injects aren't the best when he's in late game mode. Not a knock on him, he doesn't main zerg and it's hard to keep injecting in that situation. He also just stopped expanding which seems a bit odd when his bases would get mined out quicker than usual. He almost threw a game he was way ahead on lol
First guy blind countered himself lol
There was only 1 game
To be fair, so did the last guy.
@@mrv6554 The intermediate person also did that.
This probably was one of the most intense and enjoyable games I‘ve ever seen!
intense....
Saved me from saying it. Thank you
Gotta love it when even Harstem calls the oracle "the idot dude" 😂
Reynor standard build order challenge
He did know about the gold base, he attacked it with Zealots shortly after you took it.
Yeah Harstem looking at the Hatchery being damaged "i dont think he knows"
As a random with a really crappy Zerg, this is basically my playstyle. Pumping waves of drones is just so satisfying compared to how Terran and Protoss train them so slowly.
oh, so its acknowledged Zerg builds them at an insane rate. (Takes a random player to admit it)
@@inmundo6927 at the cost of your army
legit against my protoss Harstem is dead because at 5 minutes i am hitting you with 8 gate charge lot and with 0 units your just dead
and that is why your zerg is crappy
in truth zerg don't build drones faster then terran or protoss they actually build them slower
Protoss warps in nexus builds probe, ques prob
Terran builds Command Center builds scv, ques scv
Zerg morphs into Hatchery, spawns larva then morphs 1st larva into drone, waiting for 2nd larva to spawn to morph into drone
see the difference
Terran and protss go straight to into building and queing while the zerg has to literally wait for the larva to exist to morph it into a drone, they can't que a damn thing up
this makes zerg harder to play because you need vision to play zerg, you need to be able to see where you are and where your going and how to get there, you lack any of these 3 things and your zerg is doomed s to suck forever
you play zerg and know it sucks because you do the same thing over and over again and the only thing that separates the sane and the insane is, expecting a different result while doing the exact same thing over and over again, so my question to you is
are you doing the exact same thing over and over again while expecting a different result?
and if you are then you are insane
@@ShelbySigouin This is copypasta worthy. No way anyone is this pent up and triggered over people stating obvious things like droning being the fastest way to pump workers, which is why in standard pro games, zerg is supposed to stay ahead in workers. That last paragraph is especially deranged, like who are you talking to bro?
Zerglings are good for this as well, since they out run tempests and can escape easier, and can also burrow. Roaches work better though for the health factor -- well done harstem. About the only thing I could have seen you do is more drops when they where not at home, even just 6 zerglings in a dropper lord could have prevented his very last move out. But regardless an amazing game well done. When you had 6k minerals in the bank, you should have also spammed hatcheries across the map to prevent expansions and to win the base race. You can also use a dropper lord a normal creep spread overlord and a queen to put creep tumors in his base to prevent buildings from being replaced as easily. And you could also use changlings on hold position to block the ramp as you have done in the past. Another neat trick with mass drone is banelings since they release the supply cap faster then other units, and are expensive on gas but more easily controlled then mutas, if your muta micro isnt up to par. Remember, you can spread out your mutas into groups of 4 or 5 and once you have 20 you can hit every where and micro every where in 4 places as once while keeping spines and lurkers at home, when they go carriers just use corruptors instead. But if your muta micros bad then banelings might help you more. Pretty sick game, was very enjoyable to watch.
At the end I noticed he actually had an observer in his base 26:54 XD
Somewhere out there, Day9 is smiling.
He made Overlords gg, he should only get more supply from hatcheries Kappa
At the end, there is visible, that the prottos has observer in the bottom left corner of the screen.
Good call that Harstem didn't suicided his hydras for getting the Oracle.
Dude forgot that the oracle is called oracle after playing for 20 years
the 20 years is why, he doesn't know this new stuff
@@jeppel1972 That's not really new, specially for a Protoss player
@@zergling123 lmfao if you know you know
also he called his hive a nexus when upgrading to it
that protoss brain kicking
Lexus/Hexus
that ending was a lot of really cool mind-games
bgmwss idea: secret army
mass army units in a hidden area of the map until they reach a combined 60 supply (adjust this as you see fit)
they can defend themselves if they are attacked, but are not allowed to stray too far. if they get scouted, you may move them to a new location but they cannot attack while being moved.
only after reaching the supply threshold can you use them for tactical purposes
“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
- unknown chinese general
I miss the greediest man alive.
Capitalism downhill
Drone so hard, Huk is tryna outmine me
Exactly
But he will never out mine me,
@18:00 those storms!
in the first game you say its not great to lose a few drones and get attacked by the first oracle/adepts, however i would imagine you trading your tech and early units for drones means you trading a few drones for his army lessens the strength of the inevitable midgame attack. objectively a good thing for a zerg with 100 drones and queens to defend. I think you have relatively good defence early midgame when toss gets his first tech units out.
Not sure if it's already been done, but what about upgrading to 3/3 before building units?
Especially for Zerg, that’s SO long. Like 10-11 minutes and the gas makes it worse.
"I do want to get a Hydra den now that I can afford it, ROACH WARREN!" LOL!!
What a banger! You had me on the edge of my seat all game!
"Oh he's going for disruptors, that's never a good call" XD
In PvZ
That was close, nail biting!
Make it 90 and your liquid ret
I was thinking as wel.. this is just another day in the life for good old Ret
@@Weimar 90 drones every game, what a legend truly ahead of his time we had no idea what he was going for
5 Base All in, sounds amazing!
Question: Why didnt he clear protoses entire main when the entire army of protos was clearing his base? Couldnt he have won much sooner if he destroyed all buildings when he had the army there?
I was wondering that too. There was a good minute he was wandering around the middle of the map when he could've easily just cleared Protoss's main. Made it very close. The only thing I could imagine was that he knew the toss was supply blocked and thus couldn't make anything. And he didn't think he would win based off eliminating all buildings condition.
yup
Classic way for zerg to throw a game, lock yourself in your opponents main then get stormed to death trying to fight your way out.
Because hindsight is 20/20
I have a weird thought. I saw some tournament matches TvZ against Serial. Both players started with cloak banshees and failed. I was thinking what would happen if Interference Matrix Ravens instead. They are the same price, and the Ravens have more health and starting armor, and the queens should be able to IM them.
Should be able to keep them alive easier, and later they should have with creep and burrowed units.
would just die to an attack, banshees have defensive value ravens don't have
No, that's just worse. The #1 reason to open with banshees is that they provide safety vs roach allins and later give you map vision and runby safety. Ravens don't provide any of that. They are also just worse as an opening unit as they don't force spores, which are quite costly for zerg in the earlygame.
wow, TIL you can hover the cursor over the supply for more info
Wow crazy fantastic game, well done.
"Only gonna build drones and queens"
Proceeds to build an overlord
Scammed 😂
Finally some content that represents how I actually play
Now, I'd like to see that done with probes
This is why 10 min no rush is the goat
I used to play 3v3s with my friends. I played zerg and only built drones queens and hatcheries. I pumped all resources to my allies. It was kinda funny. I wonder if pros could use something like this in 3v3s or such.
You'd be banned from AOE2 so quick xD
my favourite series
Wouldn’t you be able to rush evo chambers. And then when your units do spawn they have upgrades
Dude was like "oh sweet, a macro game"
How very Age of Mythology build of you!
what a nailbiter, great game!
In this type of challenge, wouldn't it be worth it to use the queen heal energy to save a drone early on?
where does it tell you the # of drones you have? how do you always know exactly how many?
You hover the mouse over the supply number on the top right corner. Horrifyingly bad interface, it took me years to let it.
I feel like once you saw him going air mass corruptor with the lurkers you already had would have won pretty hard. Just leapfrog forward like you're terran
you can stack injects with queens, just a litte bit painful to watch full energy queens only doing 1 inject
Captain, you made this so unnecessarily close.
yup
ok, next game rush vipers but you can't use "abduct". like, no hotkey for that spell. you can click it I guess because that's its' own handicap.
This is how I like to play AOE2 when I forget to build pikeman and get swarmed by 20 knights.
I used to always try shit like this in bronze league lol
shoulda made a proxy hatch at every base for more larva and just pure send it with the army for any trade good or bad lol sooo rich!
Sick game
this is literally how zergs open every game in diamond
Normal Serral opening??? 😜
You probably could have destroyed all his buildings ¾ of the way through
beautiful green zerg, i like. also not a good idea destroying your own units =/
If you muta and drop drones and lings they get salty
Definitely under droned
Now do it with protoss 😂
You have to cannon defend your own expansions.
It's non viable with other races cause you can't sacrifice your army production to produce more workers (or vice versa) as easily
only drones and queens... so you are not allowed to build overlords ;)
no units until 100 drones so no need for speed. runs out of gas. slow zerglings base trading at 23min. idk if that was the best call, honestly might still be
harstem threw sad.\ suicide his corruptors and didnt use full army
feel like this challenge isn't really anything special as zerg lol, obviously it's a handicap, but making queens makes the challenge fairly moot
No, it's a pretty significant handicap that should not win most of the time.
If you are very low elo "under plat" it isn't that bad. But this strat should lose 90% of the time in higher elo...
Toss thinking if zerg build drones he winning :)
engagement
Ultras
😂😂😂😂😂
gg
toss had an observer until the end tho??
0.o
QUEENS are not DRONES!! (classic zerg B.S.)
Firster comment.
I’m trying out this new strategy
Feedback welcome
Meh. Nice idea but poorly executed. Were it Serral he will end the game after hitting the 100 drone mark in 3 minutes by blowing up everything with banelings or something.
does anyone even enjoy this game anymore???
Challenge failed, you built queens before reaching 100 drones
This has to be against ai? How does anyone with even half a brain see zero army units and not just crush the opponent?😮
You clearly play at a much lower level and don't understand current PvZ meta if you think that this was so surprising.
@@mothrahlurker788any decent protoss would do some kind of stalkers early aggression poke or adepts glaives timing, and if they see opponent have no units from the early poking , they will def go for the ending. they wouldnt sit around and let zerg fully saturated 4 base. Moeron is not wrong.
Maybe it was a gentlemen's agreement. He saw heavy eco, and decided to match his heavy eco.
@mothrahlurker788 i am low level. And that's why I'm surprised. If I ever tried that as zerg on the ladder I'd be defeated by minute 3
@@Mysteryshopperr yep. Exactly. I'm sorry you will likely be attacked for having common sense agreeing with me lol
100 workers without units is not possible for Zerg, since they need Overlords to increase supply, this makes no sense.
Uhm, actually ☝️🤓
@@Amoeby AcTuAlLy
Am I right that Zerg should be able to get to 400 drones without a single overlord? Hatcheries only till 200 and than Clem's APM to get 200 spores morphing, 200 drones and a huge spore cancel? I'm too lazy to check.
Nevermind, disregard my comment, let's rephrase:
ACTUALLY
@@Avermra akshualie
@@mithcio soundsd like a nice challenge lol
Ive been playing zerg like this for 20 years
I do this all the time in diamond league , you'd be surprised how often it works