Interesting concept. I bought a Yamaha MOX6 in 2011 for approx £1000 and sold it for £400, 12 years later in 2023. So cost me approx 13.5p per day !!. Put the £400 towards an MODX8+ for £1500 which means it cost me about the same as the MOX did 12 years previous, but now I have the latest model. Am, now thinking if I set myself a budget of £5 a day (price of a coffee) over 10 years I can go and spend £18,250 on synthesizers, but if I'm getting half back on resale I can actually go and spend £36.5 k !!!!! 😃😃😃😃 (However my wife doesn't seem to agree with my rationale or my maths 🤣🤣)
I never sell keyboards. I also don't buy them often. To me they are tools, and the new one is not that much better a hammer than the old one, and so I have a Korg workstation keyboard from the early 2000s which let's face it, is as good an 88 key midi controller as I need, and the sounds and features onboard it don't matter. I don't gig live, but if I did, it would be with mainstage.
Well actually: I bought a »Korg M1« in 1991. I still use it and I will never sell it. I like the sounds it can produce when being programmed (yes, the M1 is also a synthesizer) and the keyboard alone is outstanding when used as a controller keyboard (without a lot a MIDI-CCs of course). But let's break down Woodies »cost of ownership«: I am in Germany and spent roughly DM 2.600 at that time (DM stands for »Deutsche Mark« which was our German currency at that time). It translates to roughly EUR 1.370. I spent another ERU 300 for refurbishing the M1 around two years ago. That adds up to EUR 1.670. From 1991 to 2024 (today) it's 34 years or 12.410 days. So I spent roughly 13 Eurocent for every day. That's not bad! 🙃
The trick here is to put a little away each week or month specifically to buy the next instrument - revisions and new models arrive typically in five year cycles so five years of savings should buy you the best of the best - this is fine unless someone else gets their hands on it and re-directs it to the kitchen or bathroom or whatever...
Wise words- unless one's unsure if its going to be a keeper - in which case i often get it s/h on ebay- resale loss tends to be lower if not sold too late after buying.
Interesting perspective, when looked at this way it becomes more apparent how "cheap" keyboards have gotten (when inflation is taken into account) since the 1970s or 80s. In 1983, a $2000 DX7 was looked at being relatively cheap, but adjusted for inflation would be over $6,300, more than as Genos. Now this "daily cost of ownership" approach looks good if you use the instrument every day, and works out if the instrument you evaluate is the only one. In the real world most synth enthusiasts tend to be accumulators, and if the instrument you are looking at becomes one of 10 (or more) in your collection, the daily cost looks less attractive.
The problem is there are other costs per day, like loan, food for family, car, holidays, and no money is left for expensive synthesizers (per day, of course)😂
Bought a MODX 7 2 years ago but after 6 months I wasn't in to it so managed to just sell it again recently. Might go for a Fantom 06 but I think it could be just me wanting new stuff, that or wanting more knobs and sliders! That being said I could afford a nord but still mulling it over as it is my dream, but I might just wait and settle for the cheaper RD series with 7x or 6x keys shud one become available 😅
My advice for keyboards is email (or live chat) the sales department for the best price, as the minimum advertised price might be set by the supplier or manufacturer, but they can sell them for less. I have done this with Scan and Juno Records in the UK, can get 5 or 10 percent off for just asking.
I look for features first - does the keybed have aftertouch for instance? Does it have a useable array of sounds - not just the highlighted, overused ones used to sell it to me. I'm a list writer - I'll start with maybe 50 or so items of interest, including new & 2nd hand, and then whittle it down until I'm usually left with one or two options. If they are attainable to me, then I'll get the best one I can afford, knowing that I'll be satisfied with it, at least for a while. If manufacturer then brings out a newer version that appeals, I'll accept I made the best choice for me at the time, and will stick with it, rather than be tempted to upgrade. Maybe not what the manufacturer intended, but I suit my needs, not theirs.
@@WoodyPianoShack Yes, for those who makes cues for a living or live performance with their arranger you can calculate how quickly you can break even with the gear and or software.
Hi Woody! I do absolutely concur with your per-day financial breakout. First off, professional-grade synthesizers have never been as affordable as they are today, and usually people tend to overestimate the relative weight in a family budget of the purchase of a top-tier electronic musical instrument. If we steer away from impossibly expensive devices like, say, a Moog One 16 or a vintage Matrix 12 (what a dream!), most synthesisers are way cheaper than the average motorcycle, that is much more accepted at societal level. As a good friend of mine once told me, when I sang the beauties of the relatively expensive Prophet 12, the comparative cost of digital synthesizers amounts to very little, in comparison for example with the price tag of period instruments built by mid-range luthiers, but with much more aural refinement and musical capabilities on the side of the synths.
All the Genos and Genos 2 styles work in my S950 keyboard and sound great. My S950 keyboard is 11 years old and I could send it into the shop to fix a few of the buttons. I gig a lot with it and I just do not trust it anymore. I will be keeping it and using it to convert the newer keyboards styles to work in all the older keyboards and sharing them for free here on youtube.
The only Keyboard I play every day is My MP 11which to me is the closest piano feel you can get to a real piano on a portable piano and the sounds are some the best out there , I have had mine for 10 years and all of my other keyboards are newer and I have about 10 of them but for playing a real piano and getting the experience of playing a real piano the Kawai MP 11 is still the best I have! The MP 11 SE has the same or close to the same as this action.
In the buisiness world they have an acronym for this. It’s called TCO (Total Cost Of Ownership). Computer companies like Dell, HP, IBM etc often use this term in the advertising to corporate customers. A low TCO is the what a customer wants. I guess for gigging musicans a low TCO is also good as they use their synth/arranger keyboard etc as buisiness tool. It not only has to sound good but it must also be dependable on stage and have a low power consumption as well. In the case of an arranger keyboard the wedding entertainers etc that use them use it as a tool for their job and it needs to be economical for them in relation of the time it takes to earn back the purchasing cost vs the write-off period over the lifespan of the instrument. I wonder if a Genos / MODX / Phantom / Wavestate is tax deductible for professional musicians that tour with them.🤔
all great points, thanks for the comment! yes, as I think you were touching on, "return on investment" is also a vital consideration for professional musicians.
I recently upgraded from a Montage 8 to a Montage M8x. I los about $1000 in value when I sold the Montage and spent another $2500 getting the Montage M8x. So my total cost was about $3500. Which, compared to something like the cost of an acoustic grand piano is not a lot at all. I'd agree--if you can afford it, just get the best model that you can.
I’ve owned several digital pianos over the years and the reason is they just keep getting better. They sound like an acoustic Piano more than ever before with tons of other voices to choose from. If piano is your passion my experience is buy the best you can afford other than not and wish you did.
I bought one of my MONTAGE6 (my lovely white one!) used but mint for 1650€ (shipping included) in June 2020. More than four years later I could sell it for about 1400-1500€. Let's take 1400€ and divide the difference by 4.2 x 365. I have spent 0.16€ a day on it by now. And I don't plan yet to sell it and depreciation, being a like-new unit (it is an studio queen 🤩), with original box, is very slow. So, well, it is still better to buy barely used gear! 😃
Woody, the hidden cost is electricity. The light bulb over the keyboard. The 50% reduction across the board on everything is actually 100% per day. Also consider the IF factor. If you can get back half the cost. What is not looked at is including the sales tax to the initial cost. Buying the instrument is up front cost. What is sad is trickle down technology. Instruments can have features but not because the business holds back to trickle it down about every three years. Ever think how the Genos has technology that they have now and will be released every 3-4 years. Technology on the shelf just waiting for the 3-4 year time. Those things we can’t control. What we can control is how we apply our love for music. What is that worth. With consideration of our individual economic ability.❤️
I wouldn't use flagship keyboards as examples of that because they tend to receive upgrades way less often than their lower counterparts. As an example, it took 11 years for Korg to release the Nautilus since the Kronos release in 2011. While there were new versions of the Kronos during that time period, they all use the same Intel Atom hardware which is also used on the Nautilus.
Be interested to get your take on buying one of these after 7 years and then the resale value after that. I bought a 2nd hand genos recently and will be interested to see how much it is worth in 7 years. I understand the techonology will be 14 years old, but the quality and sound is that good, I really can't see how much improvement can come from it. The tyros is still going, even though it does look dated now.
Yup, bought my tyros 2 in 2008, nearly chopped it in against a tyros 5 when they came out, but I didn’t in the end as for what I use it for ( I have various synths and a midi controller etc in my little home studio room but tyros is in the living room to play when the fancy takes me) and even now when I only really play pianos/organs etc on it and don’t really use accompaniments etc much (although I still think all of that stuff has held up incredibly well for it’s age and it can still hold its own against the latest gear imo) it would be even more pointless to replace it, would just be a waste of money really 👍
Should consider opportunity cost of the spent money that could be used for something else, such as an investment or fixing something on your house or car (that could cause damage if not fixed)
I like the cost of the new Roland JUNO-D. Almost exactly the same price range as the new iPhone 16. Also, for one Moog Muse I can have all three JUNO-D8, JUNO-D7, and the JUNO-D6. JUNO-D series is by no means a flagship, but it's not a slouch either, with ZEN-Core engine power. So, relatively speaking, it's either that Roland is very cheap, or iPhone and Moog Muse are exorbitantly expensive.
iPhones are basically disposable too. A lot of the buyers for this year's model will be queueing up to buy the next "this year's model", within two or three years at best.
@TooSlowTube I think iPhone is grossly overpriced. Apple charges luxury prices for a mainstream product. An iPhone shouldn't be more than $300-$400, max. When it comes to Roland JUNO-D, I don't know how Roland can make any money on those. Unless there's cell phone type electronics inside, which could in fact be the case.
I know people talk about the Genos 2 and PA5X and rightly so they are incredible in their own ways but I have to ask about the other high end brand out there the KETRON Event what is the feedback or thoughts on this as it is up there in the same price range at 5,000 euros is it even worth considering this keyboard over the other two??
i know of people who have tried them all, and came to conclusion that genos is best, at least for them. I have yet to see one, let alone get to know one.
How much time do you spend on selling the item? You should deduce those hours, multiplied with your hourly rate, from the selling price. Also, buying a keyboard doesn´t mean you will automatically stop spending on coffees or loosing money in other ways on a daily basis. So it is an added cost unless you would be able to consciously eliminate some of those costs.
that is true, there are many keyboards i regret selling for that reason. yes flagships more enjoyable, better displays, better keybeds, more controls and premium build quality!
I always consider how long I will keep a new keyboard; what it does that I don't have; and it's lifecycle - i.e., when the next gen replacement is released. As long as they keep working, and do what I need, I keep them; if I find something better, new, improved, I sometimes upgrade, but not always. For example, I still use my Hammond SKx, and have zero interest in replacing it with a SKx Pro.
I just ordered my SX920 keyboard and the total cost was only $1950. That was keyboard, taxes and shipping it to me. That was a bargain, as I paid $1650 for my S950 keyboard back in 2013. Yamaha has really done a great job holding down their prices.
When I buy a PC, I also consider my budget based on the assumption that it will be amortized in 5 years. It is a very reasonable idea to think in terms of usage period because the lifespan of electrical products is very short.
It's a good sales pitch I'll need to try that one on my wife LOL.... A few thoughts.... you're only going to get half the resale value if your instrument is in pristine condition. If you've been gigging on it for 7 years that wont happen. As a gigging musician for over 30 years my advice is to get the cheapest but still reliable solution. You are also only going to get half the resale value if it is still a desirable product in 7 years time. Something like the Genos at 5k I doubt very much that people will want to buy them for 2.5K in 7 years time. In 7 years time as technology CPU power increases I'd imagine arranger keyboards at 2.5K new will blow away the Genos(for what the Genos does well mimicking famous recordings). Synthesizers are a bit different if they have a unique sound or unique workflow then they can still be desirable 7 years on, sometimes you can get more than half back. Next thought...... most musicians are not happy with 1 instrument........ most like a cave with a multitude of different instruments, so the 1 dollar a day quickly becomes $10 or $20 or in some cases of extreme GAS even more. Last thought (I promise LOL)..... the costs that nobody ever considers, keyboard stands, cables, travel cases, repairs and good quality speakers etc to listen to your treasured purchases. If you break everything down to cost per day anything seems affordable, a brand new Porsche 718 at £145K works out about £28 per day using this chain of thought.
really great points and thanks! on the first point, if you are gigging with it. then it has already paid for itself several times over, so doesn't matter if it is beat up and worthless! you earned more than it cost you presumably so congrats, nice investment!
@@WoodyPianoShackthat’s a fair point although I’d say that’s only true if you’re gigging on top of a day job. If gigging is your main income it doesn’t really work like that.
Yeah... sure, everyone would agree to buy Genos 2 instead of SX-920 for 50 cents.... but that's not 50 cents, or 50 cents per day, but 10.000 times 50 cents, or 5.000 USD (because you pay it once), which is hefty price for anyone whose salary is smaller than this amount of money.
Yamaha needs to release an arranger 6-Octaves semi weighted keys (76 keys) keyboard between the SX 920 & GENOS 2 probably name it the Psr-SW900 just like the EW Series. That price gap of the Genos 2 =$5000 and SX920=$2400 is a difference of $2600 So the SW 76 Keys which should be like a Mini Genos 2 could have a suggested price of $3000-3500. 76 keys is standard and Yamaha not having an affordable 76-key arranger of the psr S-series aside the Genos creates a huge gap unlike the E-473 which has a 76 key version as EW-425. Even could also have a 76 Key SW-600 in addition in between the SX600 & SX720
Atleast They could still release a 76-key SW-600 arranger which could be slightly rated above the SX600 but below the SX720 to cater for a 76-Key lower model priced. Having just only the Genos 2 as a 76 key arranger within S-series creates a huge gap in not having an affordable 76-key arranger as the Genos 2 which is pricey that not all can afford that. 76-key are standard because one could play a wider range of music with them without using an Octave shift or being limited depending on the user
I still own my SY 77 from 1990, it still works fine (it needs a new battery and the floppy disk hasn’t been working for years, but it doesn’t make any sense these days anyhow). I didn’t pay the full price back then (which would be around 3.000€), only half of it (on a brand new unit). But even if we consider the 3.000€ sticker price, it would mean 88,24€ per year! Even if you don’t plan to keep a new synth that long, why would you sell it after 7 years? Any top of the range synth is usually built to last way longer than that, and they may depreciate in value, but not on objective performance. 😉
why do we always want to buy the latest model... nobody *needs* to, as you have demonstrated. that's the topic of another video but manufacturers release new models every 7 years knowing that we will want to buy them.
To be honnest Akai MPC One/X or Plus have basicly everything and a much more than any of those expensive workstations can do. There are tons of synthesizers, effects, there is professional editor with quantizer, sampler, drumpad, and much much much more. You just have to buy good full size MIDI keyboard and you have basicaly everything to create any kind of music from scrach! I have myself Akai MPC ONE+, Korg Modwave, Korg Opsix, Roland GO:KEYS 5, Korg Drumlogue - just because I like to "knob" and touch everything and do separate jobs on them but I must agree that Akai really can do everything alone. It is just a real fact! So why buy any of these super-expensive workstations? Just good reason?
I would be more interested in seeing a more detailed deep dive into how different keyboards hold their value over time, do flagships lose more or less value than midrange, etc.
My trick, when I can pull it off, is to buy the latest gear 2nd hand, then sell it on a year later for pretty much the same price. I think of it more like renting, but watch out for the transaction fees.
I still miss Rackmount Synths. I only need 1 or 2 Keyboards , my Fave Devices still the Akai MPC and Force for their Roll your own Rompler fabulosity. HOPING but not optimistic that Yamaha lets us load MODX AWM2 patches and Reface DX Patches into the Seqtrak………Kinda drooling over new Yamaha PSR-SX920……To quote Gramps on the Little Rascals…….soon as I get my pension check, no more MUSH ;) translation if I unload my Juno DS61 Id probably grab a Korg Nautilus 61 yes Apples to Pomegranites :)
This ep. was brilliant Woody!!... Here in the States....it is Unbelievable what We find in Hock or Pawnshops!!...We won't say What We have found.... because it is well known most Gear is Stolen and sold to these shops. Sadly with the Internet....these shops Now know what they can Price.
@@WoodyPianoShack Yes....Crimes is horrible here in the US Woody.....but on the Bright side🌞....if our Keys or Synths are Stolen....We Know where they just might end up.... We ALWAYS Scratch our car plate number on bottom of Gear!!!
I hear from an ex employee that the big haulage company, Stobbart, buy so many trucks that they get a heavy discount on them from the manufacturer. They also don't keep them long, only a few years, so they are always quite new. They also have a reputation for looking after them really well so when it comes to selling them, they get back what they paid for them or more. Cost of ownership: nothing. Sort of. I have a similar approach to synths, i buy them used and often broken, fix them, so if i ever come to sell them I'll get back at least what i paid. Cost of ownership: nothing. Vst's are great, but they can't do that.
Excepting the occasional guilty-pleasure of a cheap toy keyboard I always try to buy the best - then I use them for years - until I have learned every capability and exhausted them to their limits. Then I treat myself to a new one - the best I can find. And I’m also a natural hoarder so the only ones I’ve ever let go of were the ones that were simply no longer functional. (My wife is not super happy about that last part. 🤷♂️ )
I only recently have stepped into the world of keyboards but I have been playing guitar for something like twenty-five years and in that scene, there is this strange ideological extremism about pricing. On one extreme, you have players who get so lost in the RUclips guitar/pedal influencer rabbit-hole that they just end up buying expensive stuff because it has been waved in front of them. They are successful enough that they don't really need to think about costs and have shelves worth of expensive boutique pedals that they likely only bought for novelty's sake. On the other extreme, you have people that go out of their way to not only play cheap gear exclusively but also to chastise anyone who does anything differently. This side of things also has a RUclips scene that attracts a lot of "audience engagement" and is largely built on some poorly thought-out platitudes like "tone is in the fingers" or "guitarists who use cheap gear must know how to play better". Between those two extremes, reality gets lost in the middle. Here is the reality. A musician should be encouraged to get the stuff that gets them the sounds and feeling they want. They should be encouraged to explore all the options their budget reasonably allows even if that means that some folks are limited to a few hundred dollars and some folks have thousands to work with. There is no "one size fits all" solution for everyone. There is no magical price point that is arbitrarily "correct". There comes a point where it is just silly to pretend that there is no difference between less and more expensive instruments. There comes a point where one has to acknowledge their own personal biases (not just brand preference but also price preference) and understand that those biases don't really mean much to anyone else in practice. Anyone who has had the opportunity to explore instruments across a wide variety of price points likely will inevitably come to the conclusion that your video title outlines. One should get the best instrument they can reasonably afford. One shouldn't limit themselves to something cheap just because some people on the internet say so. Likewise. One shouldn't always buy the most expensive thing just because it is dangled in front of them via marketing. If one wants a $6000 keyboard and they can afford it, that is the right choice for them. If one wants a $400 keyboard and that is all they can comfortably afford, that is what they can get. It is that simple.
very wise words indeed, thanks for a thoughtful comment! regret not making this more of a broader context, buying your dream US strat rather than settling on an Mex for example! Same logic applies though. but what you actually need to make great music is another story. sorry for answering your comment so unintelligently :)
Always better to pay too much than to pay too little. If you pay too much you may have lost 'some' money. If you pay too little and end up with something you don't like or something you find unsuitable, then you have lost 'all' your money. I have followed this add age for most of my life and still have many things I have had for 50+ years. Everytime I have compromised my buying decision I have regrets. Buy the best you can afford and keep it. 😊
Accountants call cost over time amortization. I paid $1,400 for a Korg Z1 in 2004, sold it in 2021 for $750, not bad, eh? She was my main keyboard/controller over this time. Cost per year? About $38, cheaper than a chicken dinner!
The main flaw with this logic, is that we're not paying $1 a day or less for these keyboards. We're paying it all up front (although you can go with a payment plan with places like Sweetwater). If I could pay $1 a day for the next 7 years, I'd absolutely buy the most expensive keyboard out there. But I don't have $5200 to shell out, and then try to keep it and use it for 7 years to justify it. If we are to confine the purchase to it being for our hobby, then this is how we have to view it. It's a different story if you're buying these boards to make money with them though. I do appreciate the time you took to break down the roundabout cost per day though.
This calculation makes sense. I will even go as far as to say that even if you never resell your keyboard the cost on daily basis is very low for a musical instrument that you use everyday. There is one caveat though, and it is a huge one: the calculation is invalid for people with g.a.s. who collect many instruments. Because once you have 10 keyboards, you can only use a certain keyboard once every 10 days, and then it becomes really expensive 😅
good point. a thought though, even if not playing an instrument every day, there is still some joy and satisfaction in looking at it, knowing you have it. sounds a bit lame but true. i am sure there are plenty of people with grand pianos in the living rooms that are this way.
Thank you woody for amazing content and awesome information in your video.I hope that Yamaha designer will add 4 arrows keys in their future arranger keyboards like montage workstation model for blind people soon . And I hope they will add ribbon controllers to their arranger line up like korg brand that added ribbon controllers from 15 years ago to now. Please share this feedback with Yamaha designer teams. Thank you again 😊❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Dont tell me to buy the very best you can afford lol. In the last 18 months Ive bought a 3rd wave, Muse, OBx8.... and I already had an Iridium Keys, Prophet 6, Fantom 7, Peak, RD2000 and Virus. LOTS of money HOWEVER, I use them every day, and each gets around 5-10 hours per week. THAT SAID, I bought an OB6 desktop 3 years ago for £1480 used and sold it this week for £1325 after fees. £155 for 3 yeas is £1 per week roughly....
that selling cost of 2500 of genos 2 after 5 years does not have the value of 2500 dollars now (Time value of money ) If we take that into consideration and bring it to present value adjusted using the inflation rate of 2.5% every year in USA it will be 2103.16 dollars now and if we put that into the equation : 5000-2103.16/7/365=1.13 This might not be a huge difference and I'm not here to become a star by showing some math and finance knowledge ,Im trying to represent a real fact of inflation and the need for consideration of inflation when we think about future cash inflows . 😊
Espen craft this week: expensive synths with knobs and faders are a scam because lots of people dont use them. Woody: but its only an extra 50c per day...
The question "best" is unclear and sometimes it doesn't corresponds to money only. For example, keyboard with or without speakers, Yamaha or Korg and so on. Sometimes more money means less usable product in the specific case
Well, if someone can arrange a system to pay $1 every day for 7 years, I would get the Genos 2. But not many of us musicians have 5 grand just laying around. 5 grand in Sweden is my rent for almost a year. The problem isn't the per-day-cost, but to afford to pay the $5k in advance.
But why buy a new keyboard of you are just happy with what you have? I have a Roland Fantom X7 and a Nord Lead 2 and I don't want to sell them. Why? Because I love their sound and features and there are also emotional worth. I don't understand why so always have to buy new keyboards.
it is because we are influenced by marketing departments, press and social media. people will always want the latest greatest tech. but i agree, you don't *need* it.
@@WoodyPianoShack how do you feel between SX900 vs SX920, I am having PSR s950 for 12 years recently I had service to clean all the inside dust because all buttons were hard push, but now on the EDIT button response is very low ( need hard push, needs to replace $150) Also now Multipad choices are not stable, keeps jumping around ☹️ what might be an issue?
What about gears that will sell for more in 7 years? Examples: Jupiter 8, Yamaha CS-80, ... the daily cost is then negative, it's a daily gain! And what about inflation? Currently in Europe, inflation is 2.5% each year, so $1000 today will be equivalent to about $1200 in 7 years. A daily cost of $1 today, is not the same as a daily cost of $1 in seven days. And what about wear rate and irreparable gear failures? You will never sell a completely broken synth half the price? Also the price of a gear in very intensive and non-careful use will not the same as a pristine - like new - condition gear in 7 years.
Remands me of a joke when wife asks husband how much he spends daily on booze and fags. Answer was about 25 quid per day. Then she says, you been doing that for the past 20 years, if you had put those 25 quit away every day, you could have bought a Ferrari by now. Husband turns back and asks, do you drink and smoke? She said NO. So where is your Ferrari? PS I'll get me own coat.....
I am a big fan of your videos, but this is just ridiculous. Unless the music store I buy a Genos 2 from will accept me paying them $1 a day, then it makes no sense, as it stands I still have to find $5000 up front, and that is not going to be happening any time soon, I suppose I could save a dollar a day, and in 7 years time I can get one of course, well half a one anyway!
I think it’s more a sense of justifying the purchase to yourself (or in my case, my wife). Clearly there is the reality of the upfront cost (even if one buys on HP or finance, thereby additional costs). I am lucky enough to own both a Yamaha CP88 and a Montage M7. Both were either second hand or store demo model but yes, the initial purchase was expensive but I love ‘em (possibly more than my wif………..😂).
Daily cost doesn't mean anything useful. Do you keep the device in your cave, never using it? Total loss of money, even if you keep it 50 years, and never sell it. I'd rather pay for something I use, even if it's expensive.
In 7 years selling a $5000 keyboard for $2500 means your $2500 will be worth a lot less in 7 years and Yamaha will have put the price of their latest top end keyboard up again , catch 22 , a new laptop and software would bring new life to most of the older top end keyboards for a fraction of the price and probably sound as good as a Genos 2 , Thought provoking video Woody ... brilliant share too 😎AK☘️👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍🎹🎹🎹🎹🎹🎹🎹🎹🎹🎹🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪
If only we could pay in daily payments, $1 a day for a Genos 2, I would do it. But the world doesn't work that way. ZZounds doesn't take daily payments. I've bought my whole studio on time. One relatively large purchase per year, this year was a SX900. I know eventually I'll own it all!!!!
Interesting concept. I bought a Yamaha MOX6 in 2011 for approx £1000 and sold it for £400, 12 years later in 2023. So cost me approx 13.5p per day !!. Put the £400 towards an MODX8+ for £1500 which means it cost me about the same as the MOX did 12 years previous, but now I have the latest model. Am, now thinking if I set myself a budget of £5 a day (price of a coffee) over 10 years I can go and spend £18,250 on synthesizers, but if I'm getting half back on resale I can actually go and spend £36.5 k !!!!! 😃😃😃😃 (However my wife doesn't seem to agree with my rationale or my maths 🤣🤣)
😂 love it
@@gimble447 The wife does have her rationale on the handbags, though ;)
I never sell keyboards. I also don't buy them often. To me they are tools, and the new one is not that much better a hammer than the old one, and so I have a Korg workstation keyboard from the early 2000s which let's face it, is as good an 88 key midi controller as I need, and the sounds and features onboard it don't matter. I don't gig live, but if I did, it would be with mainstage.
fair enough, respect that!
Well actually: I bought a »Korg M1« in 1991. I still use it and I will never sell it. I like the sounds it can produce when being programmed (yes, the M1 is also a synthesizer) and the keyboard alone is outstanding when used as a controller keyboard (without a lot a MIDI-CCs of course).
But let's break down Woodies »cost of ownership«: I am in Germany and spent roughly DM 2.600 at that time (DM stands for »Deutsche Mark« which was our German currency at that time). It translates to roughly EUR 1.370. I spent another ERU 300 for refurbishing the M1 around two years ago. That adds up to EUR 1.670. From 1991 to 2024 (today) it's 34 years or 12.410 days. So I spent roughly 13 Eurocent for every day. That's not bad! 🙃
The trick here is to put a little away each week or month specifically to buy the next instrument - revisions and new models arrive typically in five year cycles so five years of savings should buy you the best of the best - this is fine unless someone else gets their hands on it and re-directs it to the kitchen or bathroom or whatever...
Wise words- unless one's unsure if its going to be a keeper - in which case i often get it s/h on ebay- resale loss tends to be lower if not sold too late after buying.
Interesting perspective, when looked at this way it becomes more apparent how "cheap" keyboards have gotten (when inflation is taken into account) since the 1970s or 80s. In 1983, a $2000 DX7 was looked at being relatively cheap, but adjusted for inflation would be over $6,300, more than as Genos.
Now this "daily cost of ownership" approach looks good if you use the instrument every day, and works out if the instrument you evaluate is the only one. In the real world most synth enthusiasts tend to be accumulators, and if the instrument you are looking at becomes one of 10 (or more) in your collection, the daily cost looks less attractive.
The problem is there are other costs per day, like loan, food for family, car, holidays, and no money is left for expensive synthesizers (per day, of course)😂
Also, good luck finding a music shop with a zero-interest 7-10 year payment plan!
Roland FA-06 still an incredibly capable all rounder if you can find them second hand.
Very good advice. I plan on getting an sx720 someday.
Money is not as important as time. I have 6 synthesizers, but I don't have enough time to play them all more often.
amen brother!
Bought a MODX 7 2 years ago but after 6 months I wasn't in to it so managed to just sell it again recently. Might go for a Fantom 06 but I think it could be just me wanting new stuff, that or wanting more knobs and sliders! That being said I could afford a nord but still mulling it over as it is my dream, but I might just wait and settle for the cheaper RD series with 7x or 6x keys shud one become available 😅
My advice for keyboards is email (or live chat) the sales department for the best price, as the minimum advertised price might be set by the supplier or manufacturer, but they can sell them for less. I have done this with Scan and Juno Records in the UK, can get 5 or 10 percent off for just asking.
excellent suggestion
I look for features first - does the keybed have aftertouch for instance? Does it have a useable array of sounds - not just the highlighted, overused ones used to sell it to me. I'm a list writer - I'll start with maybe 50 or so items of interest, including new & 2nd hand, and then whittle it down until I'm usually left with one or two options. If they are attainable to me, then I'll get the best one I can afford, knowing that I'll be satisfied with it, at least for a while. If manufacturer then brings out a newer version that appeals, I'll accept I made the best choice for me at the time, and will stick with it, rather than be tempted to upgrade. Maybe not what the manufacturer intended, but I suit my needs, not theirs.
Yeah its actually lower than software like Band in the Box, which has yearly license fees.
yes, comparison with software subscriptions ia also very interesting! although going rate seems to be $20 per month.
@@WoodyPianoShack Yes, for those who makes cues for a living or live performance with their arranger you can calculate how quickly you can break even with the gear and or software.
Hi Woody! I do absolutely concur with your per-day financial breakout. First off, professional-grade synthesizers have never been as affordable as they are today, and usually people tend to overestimate the relative weight in a family budget of the purchase of a top-tier electronic musical instrument. If we steer away from impossibly expensive devices like, say, a Moog One 16 or a vintage Matrix 12 (what a dream!), most synthesisers are way cheaper than the average motorcycle, that is much more accepted at societal level. As a good friend of mine once told me, when I sang the beauties of the relatively expensive Prophet 12, the comparative cost of digital synthesizers amounts to very little, in comparison for example with the price tag of period instruments built by mid-range luthiers, but with much more aural refinement and musical capabilities on the side of the synths.
THANKS ! ...BTW, WHO IS ESPEN KRAFT ?
let's not go there :)
He's the 80s personified. He has his own YT channel.
Recently did a Video on 10 Keyboards NOT to buy that I enjoyed a little too much
All the Genos and Genos 2 styles work in my S950 keyboard and sound great. My S950 keyboard is 11 years old and I could send it into the shop to fix a few of the buttons. I gig a lot with it and I just do not trust it anymore. I will be keeping it and using it to convert the newer keyboards styles to work in all the older keyboards and sharing them for free here on youtube.
The only Keyboard I play every day is My MP 11which to me is the closest piano feel you can get to a real piano on a portable piano and the sounds are some the best out there , I have had mine for 10 years and all of my other keyboards are newer and I have about 10 of them but for playing a real piano and getting the experience of playing a real piano the Kawai MP 11 is still the best I have! The MP 11 SE has the same or close to the same as this action.
would love one of those myself, enjoy and don't think about the daily dollar as you play your chopin!
@@WoodyPianoShack Check out Ron Warren playing and singing with his new MP 11SE, sounds beautiful
In the buisiness world they have an acronym for this. It’s called TCO (Total Cost Of Ownership). Computer companies like Dell, HP, IBM etc often use this term in the advertising to corporate customers. A low TCO is the what a customer wants. I guess for gigging musicans a low TCO is also good as they use their synth/arranger keyboard etc as buisiness tool. It not only has to sound good but it must also be dependable on stage and have a low power consumption as well. In the case of an arranger keyboard the wedding entertainers etc that use them use it as a tool for their job and it needs to be economical for them in relation of the time it takes to earn back the purchasing cost vs the write-off period over the lifespan of the instrument. I wonder if a Genos / MODX / Phantom / Wavestate is tax deductible for professional musicians that tour with them.🤔
all great points, thanks for the comment! yes, as I think you were touching on, "return on investment" is also a vital consideration for professional musicians.
I recently upgraded from a Montage 8 to a Montage M8x. I los about $1000 in value when I sold the Montage and spent another $2500 getting the Montage M8x. So my total cost was about $3500. Which, compared to something like the cost of an acoustic grand piano is not a lot at all. I'd agree--if you can afford it, just get the best model that you can.
I’ve owned several digital pianos over the years and the reason is they just keep getting better. They sound like an acoustic Piano more than ever before with tons of other voices to choose from. If piano is your passion my experience is buy the best you can afford other than not and wish you did.
I bought one of my MONTAGE6 (my lovely white one!) used but mint for 1650€ (shipping included) in June 2020. More than four years later I could sell it for about 1400-1500€. Let's take 1400€ and divide the difference by 4.2 x 365. I have spent 0.16€ a day on it by now. And I don't plan yet to sell it and depreciation, being a like-new unit (it is an studio queen 🤩), with original box, is very slow. So, well, it is still better to buy barely used gear! 😃
great deal on the montage, congrats! yes, buying used and selling for similar price equates to zero cost ownership.
Woody, the hidden cost is electricity. The light bulb over the keyboard. The 50% reduction across the board on everything is actually 100% per day. Also consider the IF factor. If you can get back half the cost. What is not looked at is including the sales tax to the initial cost. Buying the instrument is up front cost. What is sad is trickle down technology. Instruments can have features but not because the business holds back to trickle it down about every three years. Ever think how the Genos has technology that they have now and will be released every 3-4 years. Technology on the shelf just waiting for the 3-4 year time. Those things we can’t control. What we can control is how we apply our love for music. What is that worth. With consideration of our individual economic ability.❤️
I wouldn't use flagship keyboards as examples of that because they tend to receive upgrades way less often than their lower counterparts. As an example, it took 11 years for Korg to release the Nautilus since the Kronos release in 2011. While there were new versions of the Kronos during that time period, they all use the same Intel Atom hardware which is also used on the Nautilus.
Be interested to get your take on buying one of these after 7 years and then the resale value after that. I bought a 2nd hand genos recently and will be interested to see how much it is worth in 7 years. I understand the techonology will be 14 years old, but the quality and sound is that good, I really can't see how much improvement can come from it. The tyros is still going, even though it does look dated now.
buy a genos1 now for 2000 and sell it after 7 years for 1000 so about same cost of ownership as sx720? as long as it doesn't break!
Yup, bought my tyros 2 in 2008, nearly chopped it in against a tyros 5 when they came out, but I didn’t in the end as for what I use it for ( I have various synths and a midi controller etc in my little home studio room but tyros is in the living room to play when the fancy takes me) and even now when I only really play pianos/organs etc on it and don’t really use accompaniments etc much (although I still think all of that stuff has held up incredibly well for it’s age and it can still hold its own against the latest gear imo) it would be even more pointless to replace it, would just be a waste of money really 👍
@@WoodyPianoShack Exactly the figures I was thinking about. I bought the Genos for 2000 by the way and it came with speakers.
@@leecornwall8381 brilliant deal, and I've noticed the speakers and stands also come included, that's another 500 bucks savings.
Should consider opportunity cost of the spent money that could be used for something else, such as an investment or fixing something on your house or car (that could cause damage if not fixed)
true that.
I like the cost of the new Roland JUNO-D. Almost exactly the same price range as the new iPhone 16. Also, for one Moog Muse I can have all three JUNO-D8, JUNO-D7, and the JUNO-D6. JUNO-D series is by no means a flagship, but it's not a slouch either, with ZEN-Core engine power. So, relatively speaking, it's either that Roland is very cheap, or iPhone and Moog Muse are exorbitantly expensive.
iPhones are basically disposable too. A lot of the buyers for this year's model will be queueing up to buy the next "this year's model", within two or three years at best.
@TooSlowTube I think iPhone is grossly overpriced. Apple charges luxury prices for a mainstream product. An iPhone shouldn't be more than $300-$400, max. When it comes to Roland JUNO-D, I don't know how Roland can make any money on those. Unless there's cell phone type electronics inside, which could in fact be the case.
I know people talk about the Genos 2 and PA5X and rightly so they are incredible in their own ways but I have to ask about the other high end brand out there the KETRON Event what is the feedback or thoughts on this as it is up there in the same price range at 5,000 euros is it even worth considering this keyboard over the other two??
i know of people who have tried them all, and came to conclusion that genos is best, at least for them. I have yet to see one, let alone get to know one.
How much time do you spend on selling the item? You should deduce those hours, multiplied with your hourly rate, from the selling price.
Also, buying a keyboard doesn´t mean you will automatically stop spending on coffees or loosing money in other ways on a daily basis. So it is an added cost unless you would be able to consciously eliminate some of those costs.
I’m going to get the KORG pa4/5x it’s hideously expensive where I live but I don’t see any other way around it
i doubt you will be disappointed, good luck
I find it hard to depart with keyboards that were a part of great memories. Btw did you Woodie find flagship Yamaha or Korg more enjoyable?
that is true, there are many keyboards i regret selling for that reason. yes flagships more enjoyable, better displays, better keybeds, more controls and premium build quality!
I always consider how long I will keep a new keyboard; what it does that I don't have; and it's lifecycle - i.e., when the next gen replacement is released.
As long as they keep working, and do what I need, I keep them; if I find something better, new, improved, I sometimes upgrade, but not always. For example, I still use my Hammond SKx, and have zero interest in replacing it with a SKx Pro.
I just ordered my SX920 keyboard and the total cost was only $1950. That was keyboard, taxes and shipping it to me. That was a bargain, as I paid $1650 for my S950 keyboard back in 2013. Yamaha has really done a great job holding down their prices.
that is a brilliant deal, congrats. where and how?
Nice review Woody! ❤
When I buy a PC, I also consider my budget based on the assumption that it will be amortized in 5 years. It is a very reasonable idea to think in terms of usage period because the lifespan of electrical products is very short.
When you look at it Roland cloud isn’t too bad ;)
ownership cost also includes energy costs and financing cost since not a lot ppl can pay 3000-4000$ from pocket 🙂
It's a good sales pitch I'll need to try that one on my wife LOL.... A few thoughts.... you're only going to get half the resale value if your instrument is in pristine condition. If you've been gigging on it for 7 years that wont happen. As a gigging musician for over 30 years my advice is to get the cheapest but still reliable solution. You are also only going to get half the resale value if it is still a desirable product in 7 years time. Something like the Genos at 5k I doubt very much that people will want to buy them for 2.5K in 7 years time. In 7 years time as technology CPU power increases I'd imagine arranger keyboards at 2.5K new will blow away the Genos(for what the Genos does well mimicking famous recordings). Synthesizers are a bit different if they have a unique sound or unique workflow then they can still be desirable 7 years on, sometimes you can get more than half back. Next thought...... most musicians are not happy with 1 instrument........ most like a cave with a multitude of different instruments, so the 1 dollar a day quickly becomes $10 or $20 or in some cases of extreme GAS even more. Last thought (I promise LOL)..... the costs that nobody ever considers, keyboard stands, cables, travel cases, repairs and good quality speakers etc to listen to your treasured purchases. If you break everything down to cost per day anything seems affordable, a brand new Porsche 718 at £145K works out about £28 per day using this chain of thought.
really great points and thanks! on the first point, if you are gigging with it. then it has already paid for itself several times over, so doesn't matter if it is beat up and worthless! you earned more than it cost you presumably so congrats, nice investment!
@@WoodyPianoShackthat’s a fair point although I’d say that’s only true if you’re gigging on top of a day job. If gigging is your main income it doesn’t really work like that.
Yeah... sure, everyone would agree to buy Genos 2 instead of SX-920 for 50 cents.... but that's not 50 cents, or 50 cents per day, but 10.000 times 50 cents, or 5.000 USD (because you pay it once), which is hefty price for anyone whose salary is smaller than this amount of money.
Yamaha needs to release an arranger 6-Octaves semi weighted keys (76 keys) keyboard between the SX 920 & GENOS 2 probably name it the Psr-SW900 just like the EW Series.
That price gap of the Genos 2 =$5000 and SX920=$2400 is a difference of $2600
So the SW 76 Keys which should be like a Mini Genos 2 could have a suggested price of $3000-3500.
76 keys is standard and Yamaha not having an affordable 76-key arranger of the psr S-series aside the Genos creates a huge gap unlike the E-473 which has a 76 key version as EW-425.
Even could also have a 76 Key SW-600 in addition in between the SX600 & SX720
It might confuse people into buying what you suggested instead of the Genos.
Atleast They could still release a 76-key SW-600 arranger which could be slightly rated above the SX600 but below the SX720 to cater for a 76-Key lower model priced.
Having just only the Genos 2 as a 76 key arranger within S-series creates a huge gap in not having an affordable 76-key arranger as the Genos 2 which is pricey that not all can afford that.
76-key are standard because one could play a wider range of music with them without using an Octave shift or being limited depending on the user
@@mcnallymarx2558 yes. They should. With weighted keys. 76 ones are essentially for piano centric people.
I still own my SY 77 from 1990, it still works fine (it needs a new battery and the floppy disk hasn’t been working for years, but it doesn’t make any sense these days anyhow).
I didn’t pay the full price back then (which would be around 3.000€), only half of it (on a brand new unit).
But even if we consider the 3.000€ sticker price, it would mean 88,24€ per year!
Even if you don’t plan to keep a new synth that long, why would you sell it after 7 years?
Any top of the range synth is usually built to last way longer than that, and they may depreciate in value, but not on objective performance. 😉
why do we always want to buy the latest model... nobody *needs* to, as you have demonstrated. that's the topic of another video but manufacturers release new models every 7 years knowing that we will want to buy them.
To be honnest Akai MPC One/X or Plus have basicly everything and a much more than any of those expensive workstations can do. There are tons of synthesizers, effects, there is professional editor with quantizer, sampler, drumpad, and much much much more. You just have to buy good full size MIDI keyboard and you have basicaly everything to create any kind of music from scrach! I have myself Akai MPC ONE+, Korg Modwave, Korg Opsix, Roland GO:KEYS 5, Korg Drumlogue - just because I like to "knob" and touch everything and do separate jobs on them but I must agree that Akai really can do everything alone. It is just a real fact! So why buy any of these super-expensive workstations? Just good reason?
I would be more interested in seeing a more detailed deep dive into how different keyboards hold their value over time, do flagships lose more or less value than midrange, etc.
My trick, when I can pull it off, is to buy the latest gear 2nd hand, then sell it on a year later for pretty much the same price. I think of it more like renting, but watch out for the transaction fees.
there is a healthy market here in sweden for used music tech gear, and that is how i acquire a lot of gear we feature on the channel!
Reminds me of a coversation:
> How much was your digital piano?
> $8k
> Wow, youd want to play it a bunch everyday then
> ah actually i do!
Where is this shop where i can buy a genos 2 for $1 a day with no upfront cost :)
IF ONLY synths, guitars, and music were my only expenses in life. What a dream!
I still miss Rackmount Synths. I only need 1 or 2 Keyboards , my Fave Devices still the Akai MPC and Force for their Roll your own Rompler fabulosity. HOPING but not optimistic that Yamaha lets us load MODX AWM2 patches and Reface DX Patches into the Seqtrak………Kinda drooling over new Yamaha PSR-SX920……To quote Gramps on the Little Rascals…….soon as I get my pension check, no more MUSH ;) translation if I unload my Juno DS61 Id probably grab a Korg Nautilus 61 yes Apples to Pomegranites :)
This ep. was brilliant Woody!!... Here in the States....it is Unbelievable what We find in Hock or Pawnshops!!...We won't say What We have found.... because it is well known most Gear is Stolen and sold to these shops. Sadly with the Internet....these shops Now know what they can Price.
yeah, don't have those businesses here, but scary to think it's stolen goods.
@@WoodyPianoShack Yes....Crimes is horrible here in the US Woody.....but on the Bright side🌞....if our Keys or Synths are Stolen....We Know where they just might end up.... We ALWAYS Scratch our car plate number on bottom of Gear!!!
This is the best excuse I've ever heard for buying expensive stuff. I'll keep it in mind when I get the M8x :D
i had you and your m8x in mind!
I hear from an ex employee that the big haulage company, Stobbart, buy so many trucks that they get a heavy discount on them from the manufacturer. They also don't keep them long, only a few years, so they are always quite new. They also have a reputation for looking after them really well so when it comes to selling them, they get back what they paid for them or more.
Cost of ownership: nothing. Sort of.
I have a similar approach to synths, i buy them used and often broken, fix them, so if i ever come to sell them I'll get back at least what i paid.
Cost of ownership: nothing.
Vst's are great, but they can't do that.
Excepting the occasional guilty-pleasure of a cheap toy keyboard I always try to buy the best - then I use them for years - until I have learned every capability and exhausted them to their limits. Then I treat myself to a new one - the best I can find.
And I’m also a natural hoarder so the only ones I’ve ever let go of were the ones that were simply no longer functional.
(My wife is not super happy about that last part. 🤷♂️ )
I only recently have stepped into the world of keyboards but I have been playing guitar for something like twenty-five years and in that scene, there is this strange ideological extremism about pricing. On one extreme, you have players who get so lost in the RUclips guitar/pedal influencer rabbit-hole that they just end up buying expensive stuff because it has been waved in front of them. They are successful enough that they don't really need to think about costs and have shelves worth of expensive boutique pedals that they likely only bought for novelty's sake. On the other extreme, you have people that go out of their way to not only play cheap gear exclusively but also to chastise anyone who does anything differently. This side of things also has a RUclips scene that attracts a lot of "audience engagement" and is largely built on some poorly thought-out platitudes like "tone is in the fingers" or "guitarists who use cheap gear must know how to play better". Between those two extremes, reality gets lost in the middle.
Here is the reality. A musician should be encouraged to get the stuff that gets them the sounds and feeling they want. They should be encouraged to explore all the options their budget reasonably allows even if that means that some folks are limited to a few hundred dollars and some folks have thousands to work with. There is no "one size fits all" solution for everyone. There is no magical price point that is arbitrarily "correct". There comes a point where it is just silly to pretend that there is no difference between less and more expensive instruments. There comes a point where one has to acknowledge their own personal biases (not just brand preference but also price preference) and understand that those biases don't really mean much to anyone else in practice.
Anyone who has had the opportunity to explore instruments across a wide variety of price points likely will inevitably come to the conclusion that your video title outlines. One should get the best instrument they can reasonably afford. One shouldn't limit themselves to something cheap just because some people on the internet say so. Likewise. One shouldn't always buy the most expensive thing just because it is dangled in front of them via marketing. If one wants a $6000 keyboard and they can afford it, that is the right choice for them. If one wants a $400 keyboard and that is all they can comfortably afford, that is what they can get. It is that simple.
very wise words indeed, thanks for a thoughtful comment! regret not making this more of a broader context, buying your dream US strat rather than settling on an Mex for example! Same logic applies though. but what you actually need to make great music is another story. sorry for answering your comment so unintelligently :)
Always better to pay too much than to pay too little. If you pay too much you may have lost 'some' money. If you pay too little and end up with something you don't like or something you find unsuitable, then you have lost 'all' your money. I have followed this add age for most of my life and still have many things I have had for 50+ years. Everytime I have compromised my buying decision I have regrets. Buy the best you can afford and keep it. 😊
Accountants call cost over time amortization. I paid $1,400 for a Korg Z1 in 2004, sold it in 2021 for $750, not bad, eh? She was my main keyboard/controller over this time. Cost per year? About $38, cheaper than a chicken dinner!
brilliant!
Great video
The main flaw with this logic, is that we're not paying $1 a day or less for these keyboards. We're paying it all up front (although you can go with a payment plan with places like Sweetwater). If I could pay $1 a day for the next 7 years, I'd absolutely buy the most expensive keyboard out there. But I don't have $5200 to shell out, and then try to keep it and use it for 7 years to justify it. If we are to confine the purchase to it being for our hobby, then this is how we have to view it. It's a different story if you're buying these boards to make money with them though. I do appreciate the time you took to break down the roundabout cost per day though.
take your well-made point, thanks! well, the principle still applies though, to buy the best you can afford (to pay for up front).
This calculation makes sense. I will even go as far as to say that even if you never resell your keyboard the cost on daily basis is very low for a musical instrument that you use everyday. There is one caveat though, and it is a huge one: the calculation is invalid for people with g.a.s. who collect many instruments. Because once you have 10 keyboards, you can only use a certain keyboard once every 10 days, and then it becomes really expensive 😅
good point. a thought though, even if not playing an instrument every day, there is still some joy and satisfaction in looking at it, knowing you have it. sounds a bit lame but true. i am sure there are plenty of people with grand pianos in the living rooms that are this way.
Thank you woody for amazing content and awesome information in your video.I hope that Yamaha designer will add 4 arrows keys in their future arranger keyboards like montage workstation model for blind people soon . And I hope they will add ribbon controllers to their arranger line up like korg brand that added ribbon controllers from 15 years ago to now. Please share this feedback with Yamaha designer teams. Thank you again 😊❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Dont tell me to buy the very best you can afford lol. In the last 18 months Ive bought a 3rd wave, Muse, OBx8.... and I already had an Iridium Keys, Prophet 6, Fantom 7, Peak, RD2000 and Virus. LOTS of money HOWEVER, I use them every day, and each gets around 5-10 hours per week. THAT SAID, I bought an OB6 desktop 3 years ago for £1480 used and sold it this week for £1325 after fees. £155 for 3 yeas is £1 per week roughly....
oh yes the cost of ownership on used gear is insane, in fact you can earn money every day you use it :D
that selling cost of 2500 of genos 2 after 5 years does not have the value of 2500 dollars now (Time value of money ) If we take that into consideration and bring it to present value adjusted using the inflation rate of 2.5% every year in USA it will be 2103.16 dollars now and if we put that into the equation :
5000-2103.16/7/365=1.13
This might not be a huge difference and I'm not here to become a star by showing some math and finance knowledge ,Im trying to represent a real fact of inflation and the need for consideration of inflation when we think about future cash inflows . 😊
glad you mentioned inflation and did the calculation as this was too advanced to me, thanks!
Espen craft this week: expensive synths with knobs and faders are a scam because lots of people dont use them.
Woody: but its only an extra 50c per day...
Espen: butthurt cause he sold all his gear.
The rest of us: not one shit was given.
The question "best" is unclear and sometimes it doesn't corresponds to money only. For example, keyboard with or without speakers, Yamaha or Korg and so on. Sometimes more money means less usable product in the specific case
I've only sold one of my keyboards.
Well, if someone can arrange a system to pay $1 every day for 7 years, I would get the Genos 2. But not many of us musicians have 5 grand just laying around. 5 grand in Sweden is my rent for almost a year. The problem isn't the per-day-cost, but to afford to pay the $5k in advance.
yeah i get that.
If you just buy the one synth, then sure, but most of us have many and some of those might not have been played for months.
i am in that boat too.
One $ a day and the Genos will stay! ❤
But why buy a new keyboard of you are just happy with what you have? I have a Roland Fantom X7 and a Nord Lead 2 and I don't want to sell them. Why? Because I love their sound and features and there are also emotional worth. I don't understand why so always have to buy new keyboards.
it is because we are influenced by marketing departments, press and social media. people will always want the latest greatest tech. but i agree, you don't *need* it.
Dont forget we can subtract any profits made from selling our music right? Right?...
indeed, that is a return on investment
I'd pay 50p a day NOT to be haunted by a Genos 2! So the PSR-300 I bought for £250 in 1991 has cost me about 2p a day for the past 33 years 😂
lol, ok! :)
In Canada PSR SX 920 $3300 with Tax ☹️ Br
yeah much the same here. us prices can be a bit misleading without sales tax, but principle is the same anyway.
@@WoodyPianoShack how do you feel between SX900 vs SX920, I am having PSR s950 for 12 years recently I had service to clean all the inside dust because all buttons were hard push, but now on the EDIT button response is very low ( need hard push, needs to replace $150)
Also now Multipad choices are not stable, keeps jumping around ☹️ what might be an issue?
What about gears that will sell for more in 7 years? Examples: Jupiter 8, Yamaha CS-80, ... the daily cost is then negative, it's a daily gain!
And what about inflation? Currently in Europe, inflation is 2.5% each year, so $1000 today will be equivalent to about $1200 in 7 years. A daily cost of $1 today, is not the same as a daily cost of $1 in seven days.
And what about wear rate and irreparable gear failures? You will never sell a completely broken synth half the price? Also the price of a gear in very intensive and non-careful use will not the same as a pristine - like new - condition gear in 7 years.
you are earning money every day you play it, nice!
I love the idea. But let me try this out on my wife. See how that kind of math goes over.
Some folk would be better buying used and spending the rest on some good lessons 😉.
some folk? all folk, more like!
Remands me of a joke when wife asks husband how much he spends daily on booze and fags. Answer was about 25 quid per day. Then she says, you been doing that for the past 20 years, if you had put those 25 quit away every day, you could have bought a Ferrari by now. Husband turns back and asks, do you drink and smoke? She said NO. So where is your Ferrari?
PS
I'll get me own coat.....
we need payment plans per day. 5 year minimum. hahahah.
I am a big fan of your videos, but this is just ridiculous. Unless the music store I buy a Genos 2 from will accept me paying them $1 a day, then it makes no sense, as it stands I still have to find $5000 up front, and that is not going to be happening any time soon, I suppose I could save a dollar a day, and in 7 years time I can get one of course, well half a one anyway!
I think it’s more a sense of justifying the purchase to yourself (or in my case, my wife). Clearly there is the reality of the upfront cost (even if one buys on HP or finance, thereby additional costs). I am lucky enough to own both a Yamaha CP88 and a Montage M7. Both were either second hand or store demo model but yes, the initial purchase was expensive but I love ‘em (possibly more than my wif………..😂).
got you covered, that is why the video is "buy the best yo can afford", in your case you may be comparing two lesser models.
Give me a DGX670 any day. 899.
Well i rather have a keyboard that them little korg volca. You know a guy of your skill should be playing and making money from it.
in a way i do, youtube pays me some ad money... :) and thank you!
Maybe start to gigging and it will be paid after 7 years....
Daily cost doesn't mean anything useful. Do you keep the device in your cave, never using it? Total loss of money, even if you keep it 50 years, and never sell it. I'd rather pay for something I use, even if it's expensive.
In 7 years selling a $5000 keyboard for $2500 means your $2500 will be worth a lot less in 7 years and Yamaha will have put the price of their latest top end keyboard up again , catch 22 , a new laptop and software would bring new life to most of the older top end keyboards for a fraction of the price and probably sound as good as a Genos 2 , Thought provoking video Woody ... brilliant share too
😎AK☘️👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍🎹🎹🎹🎹🎹🎹🎹🎹🎹🎹🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻🍻☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪
you must be a real economist AK, factoring in inflation costs is above my paygrade!
If only we could pay in daily payments, $1 a day for a Genos 2, I would do it. But the world doesn't work that way. ZZounds doesn't take daily payments. I've bought my whole studio on time. One relatively large purchase per year, this year was a SX900. I know eventually I'll own it all!!!!
yeah, or imagine if you only paid a dollar for each day when you actually use it! might take decades to pay off tho