I challenged a parking ticket. The operator claimed that I had overstayed my time. I argued successfully that I wasn’t parked I was queuing in a rather large queue to leave the said car park
Years ago Traffic Warden tried to ticket me for parking in the small layby directly in front of Tonbridge station. She did not want to believe I was actually on railway property until I pulled out a copy of the (then Railtrack) Station Lease Plan which clearly showed the property boundary of the small forecourt (along with the rest of the station). "Oh" she said "I've been issuing tickets for here" before quickly departing..... Please note I was on railway business and the forecourt arrangement has since changed.
I’m not familiar with this specific station but ownership of land doesn’t affect parking rights as was found by a lady who used to park her car on land she owned at the front of her house. One day she came home from work to find that the council had painted double yellow lines on it. She parked there in the belief that since it was her property she could park anyway. She was given ticket and chose to go to court to challenge it. She lost on the basis that the land now formed part of the public highway and therefore traffic regulations now applied but the judge recognised that in terms of ownership she still owned it! Turns out the two things are not really connected. This was several years ago and I don’t know if there have been any developments since then with that situation.
About 27 years ago (I happened to be at Law School) my then girlfriend wanted a pizza. This was pre delivery service, so we rang in the order, and I drove us round to pick it up. I stopped on Upper Street outside the restaurant while she popped in to pick up. Almost immediately an Islington traffic warden appeared and started to write me a ticket. I asking him what he was doing, and he said I couldn't park where I was on the double yellow lines. 'I'm not parked, I'm stopped' - this confused the hell out of him Then, of course, we went though the rigmarole of 'You can't stop here' (me - 'It's not a red route, so I can'), as well as 'You can't wait for your girlfriend to get your pizza' (me - 'There are no loading restrictions marked here'), and finally 'But your engine's switched off' (me - 'Why would I leave it on just causing pollution?') He tried to make me accept the ticket and challenge it in court, but in the end he had to tear it up. (I remember someone telling me they have to account for all sheets used in their ticket book, so I have to admit I did hope it would cause him some grief at the office!) The pizza was very nice
theres the Rumer that have get rid of so many tickets per day, week or something, and maybe there in the wrong job, and he giving ticket where they would be over turned, and not where none chance winning?
Excellent responses to the warden. Also, isn't it now an offence to sit , in vehicle at the side of the road with the engine running, unless there is a medical reason, or it is a food delivery van ?
I remember my Grandfather arguing with a traffic warden, when pulled up outside a newsagents waiting for my Nan to buy a newspaper. He just kept saying, "I'm not parked though. I *have* to leave the car in order to be parked and, as you can see, I'm in the driving seat with the engine running. My wife will be back in a minute and I'll be gone." The traffic warden relented eventually but only after a threat of court didn't scare my Grandfather into complying with him. I've had heated debates with friends, one of them the child of a copper about this. Good to be vindicated.
I would be interested to know about the legality of this one. Stansted airport is probably the most expensive and most onerous with regard to terms and conditions. I and many others have fallen fowl of this. You cannot stop on any road to the approach of the airport as you will receive a penalty fine. You have to enter a barrier of one of the many car parks before you can stop. Only then will you notice that there is a £7 - £14 exit fee (depending which car park you enter). You cannot leave until you have paid and the fee will rise to £90 after 20 minutes. How can this be right?
I frequently pick up a friend at Stansted. I wait in the drop-off zone in the mid-stay car park. The ticket you pick up on entry gives you an hour's grace and the barrier automatically opens when you leave - no charge.
There is a sign clearly legible on my dash board which states by sending me correspondence in connection with any matter in relation to my vehicle, you agree to pay me a letter handling charge of £100 per letter and that by sending me such a letter through this course of conduct they accept my terms
@@bimble7240 So a scheming scumbag puts a sign up to cover extortion and I can't do it back to them? *What makes their onerous "by your actions you have agreed to this" terms any different or especial over mine?* I don't want nor expect free parking, I don't want or expect to park like an inconsiderate areshole with impunity... I also don't want or expect some wide -eyed gangster type to engage mafiosa tactics to extort disproportionate amounts from me. Quite simple! I am now almost 60. I have no antecedents, spent or otherwise. The law defines me as a reasonable guy. DON'T STEAL OFF OF ME OR ENGAGE ANY OTHER PARASITIC BEHAVIOUR IN ORDER TO TRY TO DISPROPORTIONATELY EXTRACT MONIES FROM ME! I too am very capable of losing my self control in anger and literally killing someone doing this! I cannot make it any clearing *_I wholeheartedly detest thieves and the so called legal processes which enable scumbags I wouldn't feed what my dog leaves in the garden to thrive!_*
@@harrisr1018 does he have any parking badges, the one you display when you park? if you do wave that stating takes he longer to load up and that where the missing minute where or what ever covers the missing time, or second option was, there way to leave blocked, could not leave parking bay, with clear gap to exit into, or like traffic lights on to the main road being red a agents you exiting the car Park? (that could entrapment) that like kidnaping, held ageist your will? should put them in the wrong, if you could prove, malus (bad car park design) on there part, maybe even take them to court, or the police, with so legal advice first though?
Dense question : What if you don't leave the car but instead remain seated in the driver's seat? You might be eating your lunch, having a bit of solitude, killing time, waiting for someone... 🤔🤔
It also difficult to say what 'leaving the car' means; if it is a distance thing, how far do I have to travel away from the car to have 'left' the car? If I get out, stand nearby and have a chat on the phone, have I left the car? If it is a time thing, have long? As yourself have alluded to, I would say the inside/outside the car isn't really pertinent to parking. Likewise, distance doesn't really seem important. The main factor should surely be time; if you have the car stationary in a postion for say 5 mins I would conclude you had parked the car for that time - unless, of course, you were unable to move it due to traffic. There should a simply definition, maybe placed in the Highway Code, saying something like 'if the vehicle is stationary for more than 3 minutes the vehicle is considered parked, excepting for when traffic does not allow significant movement of the vehicle'. Without that, at best we have to go on the reasonable interpretation - and very few reasonable people are going to agree with the car park company in situations like these so the only reason for the car park company to continue is vexatious litigation.
I had a woman occupying a disability parking slot, claim that she wasn’t parked as her engine was running. However, three minutes later she turned her engine off and left the vehicle. Was she parked when confronted as she was occupying the slot, with the intention of having the vehicle and using the post office. And yes there was normal parking slots available four slots over.
If the car park belongs to a company of which that woman was an employee, then you could raise a complaint to that company under Section 20 of the Equality Act 2010 on the basis of Disability Discrimination (failure to make a reasonable adjustment through denying disabled users use of that designated disabled parking spot). Local hospital has done just that in order to stop abuse of disabled parking bays by non-disabled Hosptial staff; they consider abuse of such a bay as misconduct - repeated abuse as gross-misconduct. Racism, misogyny, discrimination on sexual orientation (etc) are now unlawful but many seem to consider disability-discrimination to be socially acceptable even though it too remains unlawful.
There's an interesting video over on Ashely Neals channel - video titled "An Unjust Parking Ticket". Where he parked in one of those 2hrs max car parks. He uses it as a rest stop before lessons and to use the facilities. He parked there in the morning for one student and then returned in the evening for another student and did the same, parked and used the facilities. He then received a parking fine in the post as the parking attendant took photos of his car from both times and deduced he was parked there the entire 6+ hrs t. He challenged this and won as he had video footage of him at his home for the period they claimed he was parked. The video goes into more detail about his appeal
I've been in a long queue for a ticket machine in a pay on foot car park - several were out of order, leading to a single point of contact. Whilst in the queue, the parking staff were going around the cars with their ticket machine. Having had a ticket in that car park for staying 62 minutes on a 60 minute ticket, it felt prudent to abort the opportunity to pay and seek alternative parking. (The 62 minute one, the staff verbally threatened court action if I did not pay their charge - I invited them to. Nothing further happened, but it was still an annoyance)
I came across one that worked both ways just last week, at Kingsway multi story in Newport (Gwent). I drove through the entry barrier, collecting my ticket on the way. Whilst trying to find a space, I inadvertently found myself at the exit, with no way back. It seems that they must have a time delay with no charge, since the attendant advised me to exit using the ticket, for which I wouldn't be charged, and re-enter, which sure enough, worked. I don't know what the delay is, but a sensible solution, in my opinion.
I once saw a woman in Ealing park her car, walk to the machine to get a ticket, and when she returned, a traffic warden was issuing her a ticket. She was not happy with this.
That happened to me because I tried to pay by app, but my payment was not processed. Fortunately I screen-grabbed an image of the message. I paid by coin, but by the time I returned to the car a Traffic Warden had put a Penalty Charge Notice on it. I appealed, using the image which was time-stamped in evidence, and won. FYI, COUNCIL car parks allow 5 minutes to pay, which had been exceeded. PRIVATE ANPR car parks allow a "decision time" during which time you can leave. If you stay after that, you must pay for the USE of the car park, measured from when you entered. I think the minimum decision time is currently 5 minutes (but in some car parks it is longer). It matters not whether you left your car "parked". You can usually pay at any time before you leave - unlike Council car parks - because ANPR is modelled on barrier car parks where that is common practice. This last bit may change if the Government decides to change the Private Parking Code of Practice.
This happened to me in Ealing years ago in the pay and display car park. I saw'a warden when parking, he saw me. I parked and walked to the payment machine - when I returned he was already writing a ticket. He must have begun writing it the moment that I parked.
@@stxnn9914 This is why I prefer barriered or ANPR car parks, because there is no Traffic Warden feeling incentivised to issue more tickets, and nobody gets away with fly parking either. There would probably be no ANPR or barriers if Wardens could be trusted, and no Wardens - and in a lot of places no need to pay for parking - if there were no fly parking. Mind you, some lawyers would be out of a job too. It's an ill wind that blows nobody any good.
As a side note, Cuter Vs Eagle Star, this is about who is responsible for damage/ injuries on private land, or car park, many insurance companies try to reject claims as they tell you that it was on private land. It also defines public access.
is not Private land say your back garden, public access if the public just wander in like like zombie in a film, nothing baring path, I do wonder if you can do trespass, in vehicle, the is in contact with the ground so you not touching the ground are you? then it not trespass if you stay in your vehicle
the example groceries in the supermarket, sign contract not needed, but did not contract be formed by the changing of hands cash/money for the goods/services, at that point it would hard to put say a case for shop lifting, like video you already covered on your channel
@@dh2032 the point about the road in particular is that stopping and waiting are marked by different kerbside lines (waiting is by normal width yellow lines and stopping by yellow lines that are twice as wide as normal -- most commonly found in bus stops with a "no stopping except buses" sign. No parking, or permit parking, etc is separate again: that's the only one that applies to off road car parks, as far as I know, but can also apply to on-street parking restrictions
Me too... I stopped to let my wife get into the car and drove off... the whole thing les than a minuet... caught on camera (not video, single shot) and issued a fixed penalty. I tried to appeal and they reduced the fine but there was no way they would let it go. I never left the car, it was running the whole time, I waited for her to cross the road. What makes me most angry is there is absolutely nowhere to pick up or drop off on this mile of shopping street and what parking is available is both restricted and always full. The shop keepers are livid.
Hi - If parking is leaving your car to go somewhere, after obtaining a ticket, how does stand if you then go into a car park but wait in the car for someone else to arrive; ie hospital car park - waiting in car to pick up someone (not in the drop off/pick up zones)? Thanks
Living in Spain, it´s really interesting to see the differences with things like this. Here, as you know, the law is not based on jurisprudence but on written statutes, which basically means their is a law for everthing and if there isn´t you can´t get done because legally it "doesn´t exist." So one of the few advantages is in this case (usually, the British system is much more sensible and fair). Here there is a clear, legal definition between "halting" (ie. at a traffic light) "stopping" (i.e. at a kerb, layby, etc.) and "parking" and each action is described (at considerable length) depending on the length, purpose and location of the action. There is even a legally stipulated grace period (7 minutes) between you parking and getting a ticket. As a side note, the only downside is that local councils can add to the national law with their own regulation. For example, I ride a motorbike and here in Madrid I can park on the pavement as long as I meet certain requirements (3 metres minimum width, not nearer than 1 metre to a pedestrian crossing etc.). Whereas I got a ticket in Valencia because there, it´s completely forbidden (and I had no idea).
I'd be curious if you can do a similar video on loading (granted it is more niche). You can't park on double yellow lines, but you can stop to load or unload (unless loading isn't permitted as indicated by perpendicular stripes on the pavement curb). That's fairly obvious for a lorry or van, but what if I'm dropping something off at a friends house, or dropping a pre-paid parcel off at the post office, or picking up a parcel? And what happens if the parcel isn't pre-paid, so I'm unloading a parcel but then having to buy something.
good luck, don't make to complicated it a parcel / box / big thing, bigger that a letter or your doing the opposite, which is better as you will be bring back you evidence (big box) with your vehicle?
Years ago I pulled up outside the Green Shield Stamps shop (remember those) as my wife was already inside picking up a box. As she emerged with aforementioned box, the traffic warden accepted I was kerbside loading. Before anyone comments my wife was still learning to drive (else I would have carried the box)!
The highway code would suggest that if you remain in your car you are 'waiting', not parking? Also that if you are 'loading' goods into or from your car you are loading, not parking? (you can, for example stop on double yellow lines to 'wait', say for a passenger to arrive and get in or to 'load' your car, but you can't 'park' on double yellow lines (unless you're a 'blue badge' holder)) Therefore you could stop in a car park for any length of time and if you do not leave your car you would not have parked, only waited? Obviously ANPR and barrier car parks are unable to make this distinction. Any clarification please?
I was in a hospital car park and stayed in my car while my wife had an appointment, this car park is run by a camera system which take photos of your registration plate on entry, i paid of course. However, by your citation was I parked, and if I hadn't paid would I be liable to parking charges/fines?
Stanstead Airport!!!! My daughter was forced to pay to exit the pickup area, even though she didn't stop to pick anybody up. The traffic was busy & she didn't feel she had the time to stop the car to read the 'war & peace' signage on the entrance to that area. Were they breaking the law?
Interesting topic! Lots of places say 'maximum stay' but what is a 'stay'? What if you need to use an EV charger but they're all in use. Are you 'parked' while 'waiting' or 'charging'? How about if you vehicle breaks down or has no power to continue the journey. You can't just leave, and what about 'resting' in a motorway services. The airport drop offs where they funnel you down a one way trap. How can you accept the contract without the opportunity to stop, read & exit first? What if you simply refuse to pay, have no cash or card declined? It's not like you can just reverse back out!
Several years ago there was an entertaining news story about a Bristol car park Evidence suggests it was a just story, but which alleged that for many years, its parking charges were collected by a friendly attendant. When the attendant stopped working regular uses started asking after him (had he retired?) The story ended by saying it had always been a free car park.... Perhaps others might have more detail!
This was at Bristol Zoo. An attendant had been collecting parking fees for years and pocketing the money. One day he just disappeared, presumably with an nice little nest-egg. The reason he was never challenged is apparently that the council thought the car park belonged to the zoo, and the zoo thought the car park belonged to the council.
So if I pulled in to an on street parking bay to drop a passenger off and I as the driver remained in the car waiting without getting out, would I, in your opinion, be parked?
first part of your comment on parking was Very enlightening. The second part which i found interesting about the the man on the gate taking money, if you have to pay before entering which i have done in the past at beaches. if you dont stay they say that's your fault its the price for entering and staying; no signs no refund. there is not much chance of you getting your money back, if you decide not to stay. it would not be with while pursuing it through the courts due to the fees you would have to pay, the same goes for the barriers in and out. that's our legal system, on the side of business, not the man in the street.
I was meeting some colleagues near a motorway junction next to a large retail park with the idea that we we all travel together in one car to a site meeting over 100miles away. Parking in the retail park was not an option as it was time limited so we decided to park in the new 'park and ride' car park close by. However, the park and ride had barriers on entry and exit with the entry one opening automatically. We went to find a ticket machine to no avail and accosted a bus company operative who told us that we would have to purchase a return ticket on the bus, which would then allow us to insert it in the exit barrier ticket reader on our return to be able to leave!! Fortunately, he had a key override to let us out. How we were supposed to know the procedure is unfathomable as there wasn't any signage. I would imagine also that the park and ride terminus was convenient for bus travellers to be dropped off from surrounding villages as it offered an express route into the city but its layout was completely unsuitable - obviously a far sighted Council design team?
In France, where I live, most paid parking has a free parking window, generally between 15 minutes and one hour. Many have a barrier at the entrance where you take a ticket on entering. If you overstay the free parking limit, you pay at the pay machine and are issued with an updaited ticket. You then generally have 15 minutes to leave the carpark. Some free parking areas, known as "zones bleues", require a parking disk on which you set the arrival time. If a traffic warden checks and finds you have overstayed then you get a parking fine.
What about car parks which use an automated system to record your vehicle's entry and exit? If a system such as this is used and you overstay the grace period in the time it took you to read and consider the terms, what happens in this scenario?
My elderly father got a £120 ticket for staying in a car park for 11 minutes… he’s just old and it takes him time to leave. The grace period is 10 mins, so they tried charging him £120 for 1 minute
@@harrisr1018 does he have any parking badges, the one you display when you park? if you do wave that stating takes he longer to load up and that where the missing minute where or what ever covers the missing time, or second option was, there way to leave blocked, could not leave parking bay, with clear gap to exit into, or like traffic lights on to the main road being red a agents you exiting the car Park? (that could intrapment) that like kidnaping, held ageist your will? should put them in the wrong, if you could prove, malus (bad car park design) on there part, maybe even take them to court, or the police, with so legal advice first though?
When waiting in the car for "her indoors" to shop for a short while................Im never parking......Im just waiting....can you get a waiting ticket as apposed to a parking one.??
Thanks for the definition but it just raise’s other questions like if you sat in your car in a car park waiting then would you be liable as you didn’t leave your car… Or in a camper or where it says you may only park for 1 hour and you don’t leave your vehicle or camper then you’re not parked as such Love your videos
Good advice, thank you. Ok, not a big deal but a case of principle. We drove to Truro, a sign indicated free spaces were available at one of Cornwall Council’s car parks so we drove through the barrier picking up a ticket which would later be scanned and the time spent parked would be paid for by us before leaving. We drove around that car park (along with others) and for half an hour tried to find an available parking space but without luck. To exit the car park we had to pay to get out. So we paid for not parking. Is that fair? No. Worth chasing up with the council? No….not worth the excessive aggravation and frustration. But they were ok, getting paid for their misinformation and incompetent system 🙄
So what about if you are picking someone up, or the passenger gets out and goes shopping, and the driver waits in the car. An hour later you leave. According to the definition you haven't parked. But I can't see a parking company accepting that argument. Has anybody tried it?
Related topic - sort of. I live on a private road, not a public highway but with unrestricted access to the public and adjoining a public highway. A neighbour has a car parked on the road and it has not moved for almost 2 years. It's untaxed, SORNed and uninsured. It will not start and has a broken rear window, which had plastic sheet taped over, but animals have torn through this and the inside of the car now contains a considerable amount of rotting plant waste and rubbish. The owner no longer lives on the road, though his wife still does and apparently he wishes to keep the car as he says he spent a lot of money on it and does not wish to scrap it. The thing is rotting away, it's a total eyesore and I and other residents are concerned that it may be, or will be a health hazard and it is also encouraging antisocial behaviour from local youths who perform small acts of vandalism on it. I contacted the council and they sent someone to visit but told us that since the car owner still owns part of the property he used to live in he is entitled to keep the car on the road and they cannot do anything further. Is there any legal recourse avenue worth exploring please?
You mention the danger of reversing out - as some aspects of motorway law apply to trunk roads, is it permitted to reverse out onto a trunk road? Also, to move into the oncoming lane when executing a left turn (for example a truck)?
If I drive into a carpark to collect a member of my family when he left work and I didn't get out of my car and I stayed no more than five minutes would that rule apply to defend a parking charge.
Very informative question. But it does beg the question - if that is the definition of “parking” then what prevents me stopping on double yellow lines and not “leaving” my car there? Is this legislated separately and if so how does that marry up any disparity in the legal understanding of what constitutes “parking”?
@@jonlogan1093 no, I think if the car is left that's regarded as waiting. That is, "no waiting" is a more severe rule than "no parking". Historical note: Back when I did a delivery round for Lyons cakes, and the wardens were council employees not run by private contractors, the rule at Guildford Tesco was you could stop on the double yellows to unload, but not too wait for their backdoor man to become available (the traffic wardens gave us just three minutes to move on or start unloading, but the three minutes started when they saw us because it was before the days of ANPR... )
Most of the car parks will register your car coming in and out using an ANPR camera system. Then all records are processed (overnight usually). Entry and exit are matched. Anything under the grace period is thrown away. There is nothing there to check where you've parked. It would be very expensive to try and implement something like that. Best to drive in and up to the sign, read it and then park if you agree. Then photograph the sign, you car parked (within the lines) and the ticket in the window (if applicable). I see so many people saying their ticket "fell down" when they closed the door. Also, add an alarm on your phone to remind you to get back before your time runs out. Also, always look for the BPA or IPC logo on the sign. They must put it on there (according to BPA rules at least).
BPA or IPC logo on the sign only if they are members, by if they been turn down, the must be real cowboys, to be kicked out, but the could actually just want to be the best car park, not need all stichup of car park users (they must exists somewhere)
Makes perfect sense tome. Many of us will have had 'run-ins' with parking companies. I once used an hotel. Parked. Checked in, including adding registration number to automated keypad, and left shortly afterwards, for some other business. A few weeks later I received a 'fine' in the post. A number of emails later the issue was resolved and they begrudging agreed that they were in error. I wonder how many people simply pay such a 'fine' to make it go away ?
Great video, but what's the difference between "Getting out of your car" and "Leaving your car"? I would say I had left a building if I got out of said building.
What if the driver drops a passenger off but stays in the car to wait for them or to pick someone else up, but never gets a ticket? Is there any case law for situations like this?
I forgot to pay a city center NCP car park in July. It's now November and I have received a letter from a debt recovery company stating they have previously sent me a letter about the incident which I don't feel I've ever received and they're asking for £170 instead of ~£20 for the original overnight parking. What should I do? Contact them asking for proof of the incident and proof of the letter being sent? I'm fine with paying for the original parking fee + a charge for being late, but not ~£150 extra!
Now we need a definition of "leave". leave as in "not take it with me" or leave in the sense of "get out of the vehicle"? Also. How do things shake down if I turn up in a Renault Twizzy or Citroen Ami. Both of which are not "cars" but are "heavy quadricycles"? - did I park a "car"? Well, possibly not.
Here's a question I've been wondering about following a discussion online. Parking on a pavement (outside of London) is legal, providing it's not causing an obstruction. Driving on a pavement is illegal though... I've seen people arguing that a car parked on a pavement must have driven on it in order to park there, and so has broken the law. Thoughts?
I had always imagined that the driver who drove his car into a hole in the road and got a ticket for leaving it there was wronged, but it seems not, as he had left the car while he went to arrange for it to be towed out.
Something that car park that prevents leaving might want to consider... The protection of freedoms act 2012 section 54: A person commits an offence who, without lawful authority- (a)immobilises a motor vehicle by the attachment to the vehicle, or a part of it, of an immobilising device, or (b)moves, or restricts the movement of, such a vehicle by any means,intending to prevent or inhibit the removal of the vehicle by a person otherwise entitled to remove it. It's an interesting one because it continues to say that if there was a barrier at the time of parking that constitutes lawful authority. But if you just drive around and never park...
I had a very similar experience. Went to pick up my (adult) daughter from Cambridge 50 odd miles away as due to train strikes, that’s the closest she could get. I drove to the station, sort of T junction, left long term stay, right to station exit and something like 20mins stay. So I turned right, but all spaces are full. So drove back to the long stay, couldn’t see any price info, parked, went to machine, but it wasn’t a machine, it was instructions on how to pay with app. So I had to download the app, register with it etc, and it was only when I had done all this that it told me the charge was £12.50 for a day. Obviously I’m not paying £12.50 to park for about 15 mins, so I went back to my car, drove out and found a space on the road about 100yrds away that was free (due to time of day). On walking back to the station, the same way as I initially drove (coming up to T junction) there was a sign showing the charges. A big sign saying it’s open to the public and see tariffs for charges. The tariffs section was about a quarter of the sign, and I would strongly argue you couldn’t read it while driving past unless you came to a complete stop (and stop,traffic behind). But as I wasn’t originally going there anyway, I wouldn’t have paid it any attention. When I went back to the long stay car park from the short stay, no such sign. I took a photo of the sign as I fully expected to get a fine, was pleasantly surprised to not hear anything from them.
I always thought "parked" meant "left unattended". Seems that was broadly reasonable. In the case of a car park, I presume you would need to leave the car park to be "parked" (though there would probably be some reasonableness regarding time there. I doubt you could sit in the car, in a space, for a few hours without paying). Bear in mind people think such things as buses live on a route are "parked" when they stop for passangers and such (erm, no, they're not parked, they're live on the road).
@@dh2032 The legal world has a different definition to reasonableness than a car park provider, yes (I've heard of someone getting a notice for "parking" for 6 seconds, but the courts threw it out).
Might I suggest reading the Parking Adjudication Service website's past cases? They contradict your statements, sorry. Recently a man entered the car park next to Canons Park Station, then turned around and left after a few minutes, although he never left the car. He received a ticket, which was upheld on the grounds that he had useage of the grounds, even if he wasn't parking. This idea, that the charge for a car park isn't for parking, but using the grounds, is now quite common. For example, at the Royal Fee Hospital, the charge (until the car park was removed) was from the moment one entered the car park, even if you couldn't park, as there were no spaces. One bizarre element to a few cases is the difference between parking and waiting. It seems that the relevant law (and I forgot the one in case) mixed up parking and waiting, meaning that, legally parking and waiting are the same. As for signs, it's interesting that some councils say parking, some say waiting, some say parking or waiting, etc. Then comes 'loading' (and 'unloading' legally is the same thing). Many councils say that loading must be visible at all times. This isn't the case. However, the difference betwixt the two is very strange at times, and worth a long video!
If (un/)loading must be visible at all times, that would be pretty unfortunate for all those delivery companies that operate driver only, especially for flats where you'd clearly be out of sight...
Thank you. Yes Airports do the once your in youre ours thing. I usually sit at the barrier and argue, unfortunately inconveniencing the drivers behind me.
I'm curious. Does it count if you sit in your car.? I had a doctors appointment and turned up too early. So I sat in the car for about 15 minutes before buying my ticket from the machine because I didn't want to overstay the time on the ticket after I'd seen the doctor (hope that makes sense). Did i break the law doing that, or is that acceptable? What about collecting someone (example the missus) from doctors, i just sit in the car in a parking space?
Most codes of practice of trade bodies allow a 5 minute consideration period on entering the car park to read teh terms and decide whether to stay or leave. Supreme Court Beavis ruling held the trade body code of practice is virtually binding on operators. This will be replaced soon with a statutory 10 minute grace period as part of the new statutory code of practice, likely to be in place 2024 once the judicial review of additional fees and capped charge levels.
Hi Mr. BBB, another excellent vid, which has provoked a request. Please will you do a vid on red traffic lights. My understanding is that if a red light is showing, vehicles are not allowed to proceed, meaning that vehicles must not only stop/wait at a single red light but also at a red & amber light. I am curious to hear your views as I see many vehicles accelerating away as soon as red & amber lights are displayed.
Think of the traffic light sequence. Green. You can past the light. Amber. You should stop, safely. Only if it is unsafe to you and others to do so you can pass amber light. Red. You must stop. Red & Amber. Be aware and prepared for the light to turn Green. Learnt this in year 4 in primary school a long time ago. It's also part of the Highway Code. As a must be obeyed, and part of the driving test. It applies to cyclist too.
@@hehted That's not entirely correct. Consider the case where the lights are jammed on red. Then you may proceed if directed by a constable in uniform or a traffic warden. If you otherwise proceed then you may be prosecuted but proving that the light was broken is a valid defence according to the RAC. So make sure you have a dashcam to show you were there for more than 4 minutes and record the ID number of the traffic light.
@@QuentinStephens of course there are circumstances of if this and if that. I'm sure we spend the rest of the day finding them. But I was wondering just how many drivers can remember the light sequence. Or even other advice or requirements of the Highway Code. Whether or not they are also in a Traffic Act. The H C I've always thought as a codification of common consideration and courtesy to others on the road.
I would best describe them automated stop signs, the same a regular tin metal sign on post, stopping with red light, and only proceeding if its clear to do so, on the day when the not working it still a stop sign with white light on the road and everything, but with being automated, you can only go with green light, but back to them not working, your are required to wait a reasonable time for them to change, (the law is not very clear of what is reasonable time, (and there always police person, when you don't want one just waiting) with idea your not be reasonable a time? I would like to here BBB on this waiting thing too. a what to say or not to say?
Similarly, at barriered level crossings, people will often start moving immediately the barriers start to rise, even while the red lights are still flashing, which really you're not supposed to do...
Random parking fact, we have all been doing it wrong forever! You are actually meant to park to one side of the space, it was a way of making sure you always had space as the driver to get in and out of the vehicle easily, but nobody ever knew so now you know!
So…according to our BBB…if you stay in your car….you are not parked. So you could for example drive into a bay for a driving break, or let your passenger go shopping, and providing you stay in your car you do not need to pay. I don’t think that would work out well for you!
So in theory then you could wait in a car park to pick up a passenger for any length of time as long as you do not leave your vehicle. That is useful for airport pickups.
If the definition of parking is leaving your car, what happens if you sit in your car waiting for someone who has gone shopping? You haven’t left your car so does that mean you haven’t parked?
In the situation where you stuck in the entrance behind a barrier not accepting the terms, I would just pull the handbrake and wait until you can get permission to enter and leave without any chance of being pursued for a fine. Might teach them a lesson at the same time if nobody can enter the car park for a long while.
In a Manchester town called Hyde, infamous for moors murderers and shipman, etc, there is a sizable carpark of 2 halves without any meaningful demarcation line, it is apparently encompassed in the bay markings, however unknowingly the left hand machine was inoperative a ticket was purchased from the opposite machine slapped on the dashboard, no clear signage of the differing sites, resulting in a parking fine and no appeal, democracy at work
Also you cannot be parked in a car park until you have actually parked the car as you cannot be sure there is space available. Why would you pay for parking when there is no parking spaces, so getting a ticket before you park would be pointless. In barrier controlled parking, then the barrier will only go up if there are spaces are available, therefore in part at least you know there should be parking available.
Surely the definition is not a person leaving the car, but where the car is left regardless of occupants within a vehicle. But then, what’s the legal definition of being ‘left’? the car parking debate becomes more interesting in this regard when discussing leaving the car to obtain change to use in a coin operated meter. ( if there is such a thing now.) isn’t there case law judgement to that regard?
You say that to meet the definition of parking, you should leave the car. What happens if you enter, drop off a passenger and remain seated in the car until the passenger returns. You haven't "left" the car so can you be charged for parking.
Should the definition of parking a car also include that after leaving a car that the someone intends to return to the car, within the agreed time, to continue driving the car, this is the car is not being abandoned ?
I have had several instances where I have entered a car park where I have not been able to find a parking space, usually because although the machines count the spaces against the number of vehicles they can't account for those vehicles occupying two spaces or where the available spaces are so tight that any available space has vehicles in the adjacent bays up to the white line meaning that if you could drive into the space you couldn't get out of the car. Also, some car parking has payment methods that I simply cannot accommodate e.g. mobile phone payment (I don't use one normally) or card payment only when I might not have my card or it fails to be read. In all those cases I have had to drive out, which can take 5 minutes or more and then have a 'discussion' with the attendant on the speaker phone at the exit.
There is a principle that argues that anything that is necessary is legal. It is necessary for you to read the sign to have a contract. It is necessary for you to safely park the car so you can get out to read the sign. It is further necessary for you to get out to read the sign. Thus personal definitions and 1 off opinions don't come into it. It would have been dangerous not to pass him on the left; thus passing on the left was legal.
Weirdly useful video - I was going to ask you a qestion about this after something that happened yesterday. I rode my motorcycle into a waitrose car park thinking I could take a little break, got off, looked at the signs and saw it was "For customers only... protected by ANPR" and, as I didn't have my wallet, I saddled up and left again. Whole thing was about 5 or 6 minutes. I've been wondering if I'll hear from them since then so it's nice to have something legal to push back with 😉
Most ANPR cameras view the vehicle from the front so that as your bike probably hasn't got a number plate on the front you are probably safe even if they have a camera on the exit that reads the rear number plate so that the machine can't tell what time you arrived.
It's crazy to say a car is only parked if someone is not in it. People pull into service stations on the motorway to have a quick nap. The car must surely be parked for them to do that
What is the definition of "leaving your car in the car park" please? Is this leaving your car as in getting out of it and walking away, or is this leaving your car as in it being present in the car park for more than a trivial amount of time? I assume the latter, however the wording could be taken as ambiguous.
If that quoted is the legal definition of "parking": "...parking a car is leaving a car and, I should have thought, nothing else..." Then if you don't actually 'leave' the vehicle, then it hasn't been "parked" in a legal sense. Following this logic you can drive into a car parking area (such as at a motorway services), stop the vehicle and remain in it for however long you like irrespective of any 'parking conditions' that might say 2 hours maximum only, because if you haven't actually "left" the vehicle at any point, then you haven't 'parked' it there at all according to the legal definition of what parking is! Linking back to the previous video about sleeping in a vehicle, then once again this definition of parking means the vehicle hasn't been "parked" if you haven't left it because you've gone to sleep whilst inside it. Therefore any 'parking restrictions' can't apply if the vehicle hasn't been 'parked' by virtue of the driver not leaving it because they went to sleep whilst inside it. In practice if any of these came to a court I can't help feeling the 1937 views of a judge will be swept to one side by the views of a 2022 judge.
Try Bath City Council They no longer allow Sunday parking on the city under previous accepted accepted Sunday parking rules (ie- certain bays and single yellows)- which I accpet because the parking bays have cheap tape over "except Sunday' - but most if the country have single yellows as acceptable after a certain time and generally Sundays... My issue is with signposting. NOWHERE does it say this ans they expect you to check online what their rules are Which they also don't tell you to do
Dear BlackBeltBarrister, I quote from a "qualified lawyer" on the JustAnswer website: "Parking has been considered by then higher courts and it doesn't mean actually abandoning the car. It just means causing it to come to rest at any one location." Do you disagree and think this lawyer made false guidance/advice? Would you be so kind and explain your thoughts about this in another update video? Thank you, one of your subscribers.
The only problem with your explanation is the parking companies are presumably aware of the case you have cited regarding definition of parking, and they easily get round this by stating " by parking or remaining in this car park you agree to the terms". You then only have a period of 5 or 10 minutes to leave after which it is deemed that you have remained in the car park, whether parked or otherwise and a parking charge is then due. As many car parks capture your image immediately on entry and then when leaving, 5 minutes is not very long to decide if a space is available and if the terms are acceptable, hence many drivers get caught out.
what if , you just stay in the Car. You park on a road with paid for parking , you stay in the car for hours, using this definition you are not parked , therefore you cannot be charged. to quote "if you did not leave your car in that place, you didn't park it" has the BBB just opened the floodgates for a lot of retrospective invalid fines to be challenged.
What about no parking signs on public roads? Can you then stop your car there, but just sit there without leaving your car for an indefinite amount of time?
Parking, stopping, waiting, loading, all different, as is stationary as part of the normal flow of traffic. How old is that judgement? Police enforced parking? Not in decades :)
Ha! In my teenage years (70’s), ‘parking’ meant you and your boyfriend (or girlfriend if you were a boy) found a quiet dark place out in the country so you could ‘make out.’ NOW…’making out’…THAT definition, my dears, is for another video/day! 😂🤣🇺🇸
@@BBBCP-564pawyt I was quite impressed by someone who was teenager in the 70’s using Emoji's at the end of sentence, if sentence is still a thing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (❁´◡`❁) (●'◡'●) :-) now still
But even in the explanation ‘It is defined as…’ then ‘in my opinion…’ now yes, that may be a learned opinion, but if law is easy to define, we wouldn’t need courts; or twisty turny barristers that ‘find’ ‘loopholes’ while those who cannot afford the twisty turny barristers have to cough up because the law does not apply until my twisty turny has had a word with a court judge. anyway, thanks for appraising all of us who cannot afford twisty turny barristers and demystifying law. Please do keep it up.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
I challenged a parking ticket. The operator claimed that I had overstayed my time. I argued successfully that I wasn’t parked I was queuing in a rather large queue to leave the said car park
Years ago Traffic Warden tried to ticket me for parking in the small layby directly in front of Tonbridge station. She did not want to believe I was actually on railway property until I pulled out a copy of the (then Railtrack) Station Lease Plan which clearly showed the property boundary of the small forecourt (along with the rest of the station).
"Oh" she said "I've been issuing tickets for here" before quickly departing.....
Please note I was on railway business and the forecourt arrangement has since changed.
I’m not familiar with this specific station but ownership of land doesn’t affect parking rights as was found by a lady who used to park her car on land she owned at the front of her house. One day she came home from work to find that the council had painted double yellow lines on it. She parked there in the belief that since it was her property she could park anyway. She was given ticket and chose to go to court to challenge it. She lost on the basis that the land now formed part of the public highway and therefore traffic regulations now applied but the judge recognised that in terms of ownership she still owned it! Turns out the two things are not really connected. This was several years ago and I don’t know if there have been any developments since then with that situation.
About 27 years ago (I happened to be at Law School) my then girlfriend wanted a pizza. This was pre delivery service, so we rang in the order, and I drove us round to pick it up.
I stopped on Upper Street outside the restaurant while she popped in to pick up.
Almost immediately an Islington traffic warden appeared and started to write me a ticket. I asking him what he was doing, and he said I couldn't park where I was on the double yellow lines.
'I'm not parked, I'm stopped' - this confused the hell out of him
Then, of course, we went though the rigmarole of 'You can't stop here' (me - 'It's not a red route, so I can'), as well as 'You can't wait for your girlfriend to get your pizza' (me - 'There are no loading restrictions marked here'), and finally 'But your engine's switched off' (me - 'Why would I leave it on just causing pollution?')
He tried to make me accept the ticket and challenge it in court, but in the end he had to tear it up. (I remember someone telling me they have to account for all sheets used in their ticket book, so I have to admit I did hope it would cause him some grief at the office!)
The pizza was very nice
theres the Rumer that have get rid of so many tickets per day, week or something, and maybe there in the wrong job, and he giving ticket where they would be over turned, and not where none chance winning?
Excellent responses to the warden. Also, isn't it now an offence to sit , in vehicle at the side of the road with the engine running, unless there is a medical reason, or it is a food delivery van ?
I remember my Grandfather arguing with a traffic warden, when pulled up outside a newsagents waiting for my Nan to buy a newspaper.
He just kept saying, "I'm not parked though. I *have* to leave the car in order to be parked and, as you can see, I'm in the driving seat with the engine running. My wife will be back in a minute and I'll be gone."
The traffic warden relented eventually but only after a threat of court didn't scare my Grandfather into complying with him.
I've had heated debates with friends, one of them the child of a copper about this. Good to be vindicated.
I would be interested to know about the legality of this one. Stansted airport is probably the most expensive and most onerous with regard to terms and conditions. I and many others have fallen fowl of this. You cannot stop on any road to the approach of the airport as you will receive a penalty fine. You have to enter a barrier of one of the many car parks before you can stop. Only then will you notice that there is a £7 - £14 exit fee (depending which car park you enter). You cannot leave until you have paid and the fee will rise to £90 after 20 minutes. How can this be right?
*fallen FOUL ...
@@jefflerner7526 unless it was a dead chicken😁
I frequently pick up a friend at Stansted. I wait in the drop-off zone in the mid-stay car park. The ticket you pick up on entry gives you an hour's grace and the barrier automatically opens when you leave - no charge.
There is a sign clearly legible on my dash board which states by sending me correspondence in connection with any matter in relation to my vehicle, you agree to pay me a letter handling charge of £100 per letter and that by sending me such a letter through this course of conduct they accept my terms
Good luck defending that in court!
@@bimble7240 So a scheming scumbag puts a sign up to cover extortion and I can't do it back to them? *What makes their onerous "by your actions you have agreed to this" terms any different or especial over mine?*
I don't want nor expect free parking, I don't want or expect to park like an inconsiderate areshole with impunity... I also don't want or expect some wide -eyed gangster type to engage mafiosa tactics to extort disproportionate amounts from me. Quite simple! I am now almost 60. I have no antecedents, spent or otherwise. The law defines me as a reasonable guy. DON'T STEAL OFF OF ME OR ENGAGE ANY OTHER PARASITIC BEHAVIOUR IN ORDER TO TRY TO DISPROPORTIONATELY EXTRACT MONIES FROM ME! I too am very capable of losing my self control in anger and literally killing someone doing this! I cannot make it any clearing *_I wholeheartedly detest thieves and the so called legal processes which enable scumbags I wouldn't feed what my dog leaves in the garden to thrive!_*
What about if you don’t get out of the car because you are waiting for someone. Do you still need to purchase a ticket?
Quite… I’d also love to know if I can wait an unlimited time if I remained in my car.
My father got a ticket for that. He’s got a court case coming soon.
@@harrisr1018 let us know how it goes
@@harrisr1018 does he have any parking badges, the one you display when you park? if you do wave that stating takes he longer to load up and that where the missing minute where or what ever covers the missing time, or second option was, there way to leave blocked, could not leave parking bay, with clear gap to exit into, or like traffic lights on to the main road being red a agents you exiting the car Park? (that could entrapment) that like kidnaping, held ageist your will? should put them in the wrong, if you could prove, malus (bad car park design) on there part, maybe even take them to court, or the police, with so legal advice first though?
Dense question : What if you don't leave the car but instead remain seated in the driver's seat?
You might be eating your lunch, having a bit of solitude, killing time, waiting for someone... 🤔🤔
It also difficult to say what 'leaving the car' means; if it is a distance thing, how far do I have to travel away from the car to have 'left' the car? If I get out, stand nearby and have a chat on the phone, have I left the car? If it is a time thing, have long?
As yourself have alluded to, I would say the inside/outside the car isn't really pertinent to parking. Likewise, distance doesn't really seem important. The main factor should surely be time; if you have the car stationary in a postion for say 5 mins I would conclude you had parked the car for that time - unless, of course, you were unable to move it due to traffic.
There should a simply definition, maybe placed in the Highway Code, saying something like 'if the vehicle is stationary for more than 3 minutes the vehicle is considered parked, excepting for when traffic does not allow significant movement of the vehicle'. Without that, at best we have to go on the reasonable interpretation - and very few reasonable people are going to agree with the car park company in situations like these so the only reason for the car park company to continue is vexatious litigation.
I had a woman occupying a disability parking slot, claim that she wasn’t parked as her engine was running. However, three minutes later she turned her engine off and left the vehicle. Was she parked when confronted as she was occupying the slot, with the intention of having the vehicle and using the post office. And yes there was normal parking slots available four slots over.
If the car park belongs to a company of which that woman was an employee, then you could raise a complaint to that company under Section 20 of the Equality Act 2010 on the basis of Disability Discrimination (failure to make a reasonable adjustment through denying disabled users use of that designated disabled parking spot).
Local hospital has done just that in order to stop abuse of disabled parking bays by non-disabled Hosptial staff; they consider abuse of such a bay as misconduct - repeated abuse as gross-misconduct.
Racism, misogyny, discrimination on sexual orientation (etc) are now unlawful but many seem to consider disability-discrimination to be socially acceptable even though it too remains unlawful.
There's an interesting video over on Ashely Neals channel - video titled "An Unjust Parking Ticket". Where he parked in one of those 2hrs max car parks. He uses it as a rest stop before lessons and to use the facilities. He parked there in the morning for one student and then returned in the evening for another student and did the same, parked and used the facilities. He then received a parking fine in the post as the parking attendant took photos of his car from both times and deduced he was parked there the entire 6+ hrs t. He challenged this and won as he had video footage of him at his home for the period they claimed he was parked. The video goes into more detail about his appeal
I've been in a long queue for a ticket machine in a pay on foot car park - several were out of order, leading to a single point of contact. Whilst in the queue, the parking staff were going around the cars with their ticket machine. Having had a ticket in that car park for staying 62 minutes on a 60 minute ticket, it felt prudent to abort the opportunity to pay and seek alternative parking.
(The 62 minute one, the staff verbally threatened court action if I did not pay their charge - I invited them to. Nothing further happened, but it was still an annoyance)
I came across one that worked both ways just last week, at Kingsway multi story in Newport (Gwent). I drove through the entry barrier, collecting my ticket on the way. Whilst trying to find a space, I inadvertently found myself at the exit, with no way back. It seems that they must have a time delay with no charge, since the attendant advised me to exit using the ticket, for which I wouldn't be charged, and re-enter, which sure enough, worked. I don't know what the delay is, but a sensible solution, in my opinion.
I once saw a woman in Ealing park her car, walk to the machine to get a ticket, and when she returned, a traffic warden was issuing her a ticket. She was not happy with this.
That happened to me because I tried to pay by app, but my payment was not processed. Fortunately I screen-grabbed an image of the message. I paid by coin, but by the time I returned to the car a Traffic Warden had put a Penalty Charge Notice on it. I appealed, using the image which was time-stamped in evidence, and won.
FYI, COUNCIL car parks allow 5 minutes to pay, which had been exceeded.
PRIVATE ANPR car parks allow a "decision time" during which time you can leave. If you stay after that, you must pay for the USE of the car park, measured from when you entered. I think the minimum decision time is currently 5 minutes (but in some car parks it is longer). It matters not whether you left your car "parked". You can usually pay at any time before you leave - unlike Council car parks - because ANPR is modelled on barrier car parks where that is common practice. This last bit may change if the Government decides to change the Private Parking Code of Practice.
That has happened to me in Berkeley Sq. London. I doubt I was away from the car for more than 5 mins.
This happened to me in Ealing years ago in the pay and display car park. I saw'a warden when parking, he saw me. I parked and walked to the payment machine - when I returned he was already writing a ticket. He must have begun writing it the moment that I parked.
@@stxnn9914 This is why I prefer barriered or ANPR car parks, because there is no Traffic Warden feeling incentivised to issue more tickets, and nobody gets away with fly parking either.
There would probably be no ANPR or barriers if Wardens could be trusted, and no Wardens - and in a lot of places no need to pay for parking - if there were no fly parking. Mind you, some lawyers would be out of a job too. It's an ill wind that blows nobody any good.
I was wondering how this equates to going into an airport car park deciding to leave before stopping then being charged because of the barrier?
As a side note, Cuter Vs Eagle Star, this is about who is responsible for damage/ injuries on private land, or car park, many insurance companies try to reject claims as they tell you that it was on private land. It also defines public access.
is not Private land say your back garden, public access if the public just wander in like like zombie in a film, nothing baring path, I do wonder if you can do trespass, in vehicle, the is in contact with the ground so you not touching the ground are you? then it not trespass if you stay in your vehicle
the example groceries in the supermarket, sign contract not needed, but did not contract be formed by the changing of hands cash/money for the goods/services, at that point it would hard to put say a case for shop lifting, like video you already covered on your channel
I would like to know the difference and a legal definition of "stopping", "waiting" and 'parking" on the side of the road.
TIA 😊
why limit it to just the road you dont have to be on road to all three of though things?
@@dh2032 the point about the road in particular is that stopping and waiting are marked by different kerbside lines (waiting is by normal width yellow lines and stopping by yellow lines that are twice as wide as normal -- most commonly found in bus stops with a "no stopping except buses" sign.
No parking, or permit parking, etc is separate again: that's the only one that applies to off road car parks, as far as I know, but can also apply to on-street parking restrictions
Me too... I stopped to let my wife get into the car and drove off... the whole thing les than a minuet... caught on camera (not video, single shot) and issued a fixed penalty. I tried to appeal and they reduced the fine but there was no way they would let it go. I never left the car, it was running the whole time, I waited for her to cross the road. What makes me most angry is there is absolutely nowhere to pick up or drop off on this mile of shopping street and what parking is available is both restricted and always full. The shop keepers are livid.
Hi - If parking is leaving your car to go somewhere, after obtaining a ticket, how does stand if you then go into a car park but wait in the car for someone else to arrive; ie hospital car park - waiting in car to pick up someone (not in the drop off/pick up zones)? Thanks
Living in Spain, it´s really interesting to see the differences with things like this. Here, as you know, the law is not based on jurisprudence but on written statutes, which basically means their is a law for everthing and if there isn´t you can´t get done because legally it "doesn´t exist." So one of the few advantages is in this case (usually, the British system is much more sensible and fair). Here there is a clear, legal definition between "halting" (ie. at a traffic light) "stopping" (i.e. at a kerb, layby, etc.) and "parking" and each action is described (at considerable length) depending on the length, purpose and location of the action. There is even a legally stipulated grace period (7 minutes) between you parking and getting a ticket. As a side note, the only downside is that local councils can add to the national law with their own regulation. For example, I ride a motorbike and here in Madrid I can park on the pavement as long as I meet certain requirements (3 metres minimum width, not nearer than 1 metre to a pedestrian crossing etc.). Whereas I got a ticket in Valencia because there, it´s completely forbidden (and I had no idea).
With number plate cameras on carpark entrances , this issue may occur often
I'd be curious if you can do a similar video on loading (granted it is more niche).
You can't park on double yellow lines, but you can stop to load or unload (unless loading isn't permitted as indicated by perpendicular stripes on the pavement curb). That's fairly obvious for a lorry or van, but what if I'm dropping something off at a friends house, or dropping a pre-paid parcel off at the post office, or picking up a parcel? And what happens if the parcel isn't pre-paid, so I'm unloading a parcel but then having to buy something.
good luck, don't make to complicated it a parcel / box / big thing, bigger that a letter or your doing the opposite, which is better as you will be bring back you evidence (big box) with your vehicle?
Years ago I pulled up outside the Green Shield Stamps shop (remember those) as my wife was already inside picking up a box. As she emerged with aforementioned box, the traffic warden accepted I was kerbside loading.
Before anyone comments my wife was still learning to drive (else I would have carried the box)!
The highway code would suggest that if you remain in your car you are 'waiting', not parking?
Also that if you are 'loading' goods into or from your car you are loading, not parking?
(you can, for example stop on double yellow lines to 'wait', say for a passenger to arrive and get in or to 'load' your car, but you can't 'park' on double yellow lines (unless you're a 'blue badge' holder))
Therefore you could stop in a car park for any length of time and if you do not leave your car you would not have parked, only waited? Obviously ANPR and barrier car parks are unable to make this distinction.
Any clarification please?
I was in a hospital car park and stayed in my car while my wife had an appointment, this car park is run by a camera system which take photos of your registration plate on entry, i paid of course. However, by your citation was I parked, and if I hadn't paid would I be liable to parking charges/fines?
Stanstead Airport!!!!
My daughter was forced to pay to exit the pickup area, even though she didn't stop to pick anybody up.
The traffic was busy & she didn't feel she had the time to stop the car to read the 'war & peace' signage on the entrance to that area.
Were they breaking the law?
Interesting topic! Lots of places say 'maximum stay' but what is a 'stay'?
What if you need to use an EV charger but they're all in use. Are you 'parked' while 'waiting' or 'charging'?
How about if you vehicle breaks down or has no power to continue the journey. You can't just leave, and what about 'resting' in a motorway services.
The airport drop offs where they funnel you down a one way trap. How can you accept the contract without the opportunity to stop, read & exit first?
What if you simply refuse to pay, have no cash or card declined? It's not like you can just reverse back out!
Several years ago there was an entertaining news story about a Bristol car park Evidence suggests it was a just story, but which alleged that for many years, its parking charges were collected by a friendly attendant. When the attendant stopped working regular uses started asking after him (had he retired?) The story ended by saying it had always been a free car park....
Perhaps others might have more detail!
This was at Bristol Zoo. An attendant had been collecting parking fees for years and pocketing the money. One day he just disappeared, presumably with an nice little nest-egg. The reason he was never challenged is apparently that the council thought the car park belonged to the zoo, and the zoo thought the car park belonged to the council.
So if I pulled in to an on street parking bay to drop a passenger off and I as the driver remained in the car waiting without getting out, would I, in your opinion, be parked?
first part of your comment on parking was Very enlightening. The second part which i found interesting about the the man on the gate taking money, if you have to pay before entering which i have done in the past at beaches. if you dont stay they say that's your fault its the price for entering and staying; no signs no refund. there is not much chance of you getting your money back, if you decide not to stay. it would not be with while pursuing it through the courts due to the fees you would have to pay, the same goes for the barriers in and out. that's our legal system, on the side of business, not the man in the street.
I was meeting some colleagues near a motorway junction next to a large retail park with the idea that we we all travel together in one car to a site meeting over 100miles away. Parking in the retail park was not an option as it was time limited so we decided to park in the new 'park and ride' car park close by. However, the park and ride had barriers on entry and exit with the entry one opening automatically. We went to find a ticket machine to no avail and accosted a bus company operative who told us that we would have to purchase a return ticket on the bus, which would then allow us to insert it in the exit barrier ticket reader on our return to be able to leave!! Fortunately, he had a key override to let us out. How we were supposed to know the procedure is unfathomable as there wasn't any signage. I would imagine also that the park and ride terminus was convenient for bus travellers to be dropped off from surrounding villages as it offered an express route into the city but its layout was completely unsuitable - obviously a far sighted Council design team?
In France, where I live, most paid parking has a free parking window, generally between 15 minutes and one hour. Many have a barrier at the entrance where you take a ticket on entering. If you overstay the free parking limit, you pay at the pay machine and are issued with an updaited ticket. You then generally have 15 minutes to leave the carpark. Some free parking areas, known as "zones bleues", require a parking disk on which you set the arrival time. If a traffic warden checks and finds you have overstayed then you get a parking fine.
sacré bleu!
The french have the better system for the public and not to profit out of such a mundane thing :-)
What about car parks which use an automated system to record your vehicle's entry and exit? If a system such as this is used and you overstay the grace period in the time it took you to read and consider the terms, what happens in this scenario?
My elderly father got a £120 ticket for staying in a car park for 11 minutes… he’s just old and it takes him time to leave. The grace period is 10 mins, so they tried charging him £120 for 1 minute
@@harrisr1018 does he have any parking badges, the one you display when you park? if you do wave that stating takes he longer to load up and that where the missing minute where or what ever covers the missing time, or second option was, there way to leave blocked, could not leave parking bay, with clear gap to exit into, or like traffic lights on to the main road being red a agents you exiting the car Park? (that could intrapment) that like kidnaping, held ageist your will? should put them in the wrong, if you could prove, malus (bad car park design) on there part, maybe even take them to court, or the police, with so legal advice first though?
When waiting in the car for "her indoors" to shop for a short while................Im never parking......Im just waiting....can you get a waiting ticket as apposed to a parking one.??
Thanks for the definition but it just raise’s other questions like if you sat in your car in a car park waiting then would you be liable as you didn’t leave your car…
Or in a camper or where it says you may only park for 1 hour and you don’t leave your vehicle or camper then you’re not parked as such
Love your videos
Hmm in the I didn't leave aspect if I stopped the vehicle in a space
I haven't technically left the vehicle so how would that play out
none of these questions have come into my mind..anyhoo my girlfriend is a Barrister and we love watching your videos.
Good advice, thank you.
Ok, not a big deal but a case of principle. We drove to Truro, a sign indicated free spaces were available at one of Cornwall Council’s car parks so we drove through the barrier picking up a ticket which would later be scanned and the time spent parked would be paid for by us before leaving.
We drove around that car park (along with others) and for half an hour tried to find an available parking space but without luck. To exit the car park we had to pay to get out. So we paid for not parking.
Is that fair? No.
Worth chasing up with the council? No….not worth the excessive aggravation and frustration.
But they were ok, getting paid for their misinformation and incompetent system 🙄
is that not an amusement park ride (like safari park but without the animals)?
So what about if you are picking someone up, or the passenger gets out and goes shopping, and the driver waits in the car. An hour later you leave. According to the definition you haven't parked. But I can't see a parking company accepting that argument. Has anybody tried it?
is a person a parcel, under the law for loading and unloading? (and should that person have a big box to be on the safe side of things?)
Related topic - sort of.
I live on a private road, not a public highway but with unrestricted access to the public and adjoining a public highway. A neighbour has a car parked on the road and it has not moved for almost 2 years. It's untaxed, SORNed and uninsured. It will not start and has a broken rear window, which had plastic sheet taped over, but animals have torn through this and the inside of the car now contains a considerable amount of rotting plant waste and rubbish. The owner no longer lives on the road, though his wife still does and apparently he wishes to keep the car as he says he spent a lot of money on it and does not wish to scrap it.
The thing is rotting away, it's a total eyesore and I and other residents are concerned that it may be, or will be a health hazard and it is also encouraging antisocial behaviour from local youths who perform small acts of vandalism on it. I contacted the council and they sent someone to visit but told us that since the car owner still owns part of the property he used to live in he is entitled to keep the car on the road and they cannot do anything further. Is there any legal recourse avenue worth exploring please?
You mention the danger of reversing out - as some aspects of motorway law apply to trunk roads, is it permitted to reverse out onto a trunk road? Also, to move into the oncoming lane when executing a left turn (for example a truck)?
How does the law apply to waiting/pickup areas where there is never any intention of leaving the vehicle?
Does planning permission for a car park come with enforceable conditions as to whom may park, and for how long ?
do you mean like town green, where you can still graze your sheep if you want too.
If I drive into a carpark to collect a member of my family when he left work and I didn't get out of my car and I stayed no more than five minutes would that rule apply to defend a parking charge.
Surprisingly a very interesting topic!
Very informative question. But it does beg the question - if that is the definition of “parking” then what prevents me stopping on double yellow lines and not “leaving” my car there? Is this legislated separately and if so how does that marry up any disparity in the legal understanding of what constitutes “parking”?
Double yellow lines (and indeed single ones) assert "no waiting" rather than "no parking"
@@trueriver1950 Thank you. So could you park on them as long as you don’t wait?
@@jonlogan1093 it's to words to us mortals mean the same thing but to the law very different?
@@jonlogan1093 no, I think if the car is left that's regarded as waiting. That is, "no waiting" is a more severe rule than "no parking".
Historical note: Back when I did a delivery round for Lyons cakes, and the wardens were council employees not run by private contractors, the rule at Guildford Tesco was you could stop on the double yellows to unload, but not too wait for their backdoor man to become available (the traffic wardens gave us just three minutes to move on or start unloading, but the three minutes started when they saw us because it was before the days of ANPR... )
Most of the car parks will register your car coming in and out using an ANPR camera system. Then all records are processed (overnight usually). Entry and exit are matched. Anything under the grace period is thrown away. There is nothing there to check where you've parked. It would be very expensive to try and implement something like that. Best to drive in and up to the sign, read it and then park if you agree. Then photograph the sign, you car parked (within the lines) and the ticket in the window (if applicable). I see so many people saying their ticket "fell down" when they closed the door. Also, add an alarm on your phone to remind you to get back before your time runs out. Also, always look for the BPA or IPC logo on the sign. They must put it on there (according to BPA rules at least).
BPA or IPC logo on the sign only if they are members, by if they been turn down, the must be real cowboys, to be kicked out, but the could actually just want to be the best car park, not need all stichup of car park users (they must exists somewhere)
I work with women, and I've often wondered....
What's the difference between parking and abandonment?
A good lady friend of mine once said I do not park I just stop.
Makes perfect sense tome.
Many of us will have had 'run-ins' with parking companies.
I once used an hotel.
Parked.
Checked in, including adding registration number to automated keypad, and left shortly afterwards, for some other business.
A few weeks later I received a 'fine' in the post.
A number of emails later the issue was resolved and they begrudging agreed that they were in error.
I wonder how many people simply pay such a 'fine' to make it go away ?
Great video, but what's the difference between "Getting out of your car" and "Leaving your car"?
I would say I had left a building if I got out of said building.
but you building is not a four rubber tyres, if it is, its a motorhome?
What if the driver drops a passenger off but stays in the car to wait for them or to pick someone else up, but never gets a ticket? Is there any case law for situations like this?
Surprised there haven't been more recent cases/rulings since _Ashby_ v. _Tolhurst._ [1937] 2 K.B. 242.
I forgot to pay a city center NCP car park in July. It's now November and I have received a letter from a debt recovery company stating they have previously sent me a letter about the incident which I don't feel I've ever received and they're asking for £170 instead of ~£20 for the original overnight parking. What should I do? Contact them asking for proof of the incident and proof of the letter being sent? I'm fine with paying for the original parking fee + a charge for being late, but not ~£150 extra!
Now we need a definition of "leave". leave as in "not take it with me" or leave in the sense of "get out of the vehicle"?
Also. How do things shake down if I turn up in a Renault Twizzy or Citroen Ami. Both of which are not "cars" but are "heavy quadricycles"? - did I park a "car"? Well, possibly not.
Here's a question I've been wondering about following a discussion online.
Parking on a pavement (outside of London) is legal, providing it's not causing an obstruction.
Driving on a pavement is illegal though...
I've seen people arguing that a car parked on a pavement must have driven on it in order to park there, and so has broken the law.
Thoughts?
I had always imagined that the driver who drove his car into a hole in the road and got a ticket for leaving it there was wronged, but it seems not, as he had left the car while he went to arrange for it to be towed out.
Something that car park that prevents leaving might want to consider... The protection of freedoms act 2012 section 54:
A person commits an offence who, without lawful authority-
(a)immobilises a motor vehicle by the attachment to the vehicle, or a part of it, of an immobilising device, or
(b)moves, or restricts the movement of, such a vehicle by any means,intending to prevent or inhibit the removal of the vehicle by a person otherwise entitled to remove it.
It's an interesting one because it continues to say that if there was a barrier at the time of parking that constitutes lawful authority. But if you just drive around and never park...
I had a very similar experience. Went to pick up my (adult) daughter from Cambridge 50 odd miles away as due to train strikes, that’s the closest she could get.
I drove to the station, sort of T junction, left long term stay, right to station exit and something like 20mins stay.
So I turned right, but all spaces are full. So drove back to the long stay, couldn’t see any price info, parked, went to machine, but it wasn’t a machine, it was instructions on how to pay with app.
So I had to download the app, register with it etc, and it was only when I had done all this that it told me the charge was £12.50 for a day.
Obviously I’m not paying £12.50 to park for about 15 mins, so I went back to my car, drove out and found a space on the road about 100yrds away that was free (due to time of day).
On walking back to the station, the same way as I initially drove (coming up to T junction) there was a sign showing the charges.
A big sign saying it’s open to the public and see tariffs for charges. The tariffs section was about a quarter of the sign, and I would strongly argue you couldn’t read it while driving past unless you came to a complete stop (and stop,traffic behind). But as I wasn’t originally going there anyway, I wouldn’t have paid it any attention. When I went back to the long stay car park from the short stay, no such sign.
I took a photo of the sign as I fully expected to get a fine, was pleasantly surprised to not hear anything from them.
I always thought "parked" meant "left unattended". Seems that was broadly reasonable. In the case of a car park, I presume you would need to leave the car park to be "parked" (though there would probably be some reasonableness regarding time there. I doubt you could sit in the car, in a space, for a few hours without paying).
Bear in mind people think such things as buses live on a route are "parked" when they stop for passangers and such (erm, no, they're not parked, they're live on the road).
car parks are not reasonable if they can get extra money out of you
@@dh2032 The legal world has a different definition to reasonableness than a car park provider, yes (I've heard of someone getting a notice for "parking" for 6 seconds, but the courts threw it out).
Might I suggest reading the Parking Adjudication Service website's past cases? They contradict your statements, sorry. Recently a man entered the car park next to Canons Park Station, then turned around and left after a few minutes, although he never left the car. He received a ticket, which was upheld on the grounds that he had useage of the grounds, even if he wasn't parking. This idea, that the charge for a car park isn't for parking, but using the grounds, is now quite common. For example, at the Royal Fee Hospital, the charge (until the car park was removed) was from the moment one entered the car park, even if you couldn't park, as there were no spaces.
One bizarre element to a few cases is the difference between parking and waiting. It seems that the relevant law (and I forgot the one in case) mixed up parking and waiting, meaning that, legally parking and waiting are the same. As for signs, it's interesting that some councils say parking, some say waiting, some say parking or waiting, etc. Then comes 'loading' (and 'unloading' legally is the same thing). Many councils say that loading must be visible at all times. This isn't the case. However, the difference betwixt the two is very strange at times, and worth a long video!
If (un/)loading must be visible at all times, that would be pretty unfortunate for all those delivery companies that operate driver only, especially for flats where you'd clearly be out of sight...
Thank you. Yes Airports do the once your in youre ours thing.
I usually sit at the barrier and argue, unfortunately inconveniencing the drivers behind me.
I'm curious. Does it count if you sit in your car.? I had a doctors appointment and turned up too early. So I sat in the car for about 15 minutes before buying my ticket from the machine because I didn't want to overstay the time on the ticket after I'd seen the doctor (hope that makes sense). Did i break the law doing that, or is that acceptable? What about collecting someone (example the missus) from doctors, i just sit in the car in a parking space?
Most codes of practice of trade bodies allow a 5 minute consideration period on entering the car park to read teh terms and decide whether to stay or leave. Supreme Court Beavis ruling held the trade body code of practice is virtually binding on operators. This will be replaced soon with a statutory 10 minute grace period as part of the new statutory code of practice, likely to be in place 2024 once the judicial review of additional fees and capped charge levels.
Hi Mr. BBB, another excellent vid, which has provoked a request. Please will you do a vid on red traffic lights. My understanding is that if a red light is showing, vehicles are not allowed to proceed, meaning that vehicles must not only stop/wait at a single red light but also at a red & amber light. I am curious to hear your views as I see many vehicles accelerating away as soon as red & amber lights are displayed.
Think of the traffic light sequence.
Green. You can past the light.
Amber. You should stop,
safely. Only if it is unsafe to you and others to do so you can pass amber light.
Red. You must stop.
Red & Amber. Be aware and prepared for the light to turn Green.
Learnt this in year 4 in primary school a long time ago.
It's also part of the Highway Code. As a must be obeyed, and part of the driving test.
It applies to cyclist too.
@@hehted That's not entirely correct. Consider the case where the lights are jammed on red. Then you may proceed if directed by a constable in uniform or a traffic warden. If you otherwise proceed then you may be prosecuted but proving that the light was broken is a valid defence according to the RAC. So make sure you have a dashcam to show you were there for more than 4 minutes and record the ID number of the traffic light.
@@QuentinStephens of course there are circumstances of if this and if that. I'm sure we spend the rest of the day finding them. But I was wondering just how many drivers can remember the light sequence. Or even other advice or requirements of the Highway Code. Whether or not they are also in a Traffic Act.
The H C I've always thought as a codification of common consideration and courtesy to others on the road.
I would best describe them automated stop signs, the same a regular tin metal sign on post,
stopping with red light, and only proceeding if its clear to do so, on the day when the not working it still a stop sign with white light on the road and everything, but with being automated, you can only go with green light, but back to them not working, your are required to wait a reasonable time for them to change, (the law is not very clear of what is reasonable time, (and there always police person, when you don't want one just waiting) with idea your not be reasonable a time?
I would like to here BBB on this waiting thing too. a what to say or not to say?
Similarly, at barriered level crossings, people will often start moving immediately the barriers start to rise, even while the red lights are still flashing, which really you're not supposed to do...
Random parking fact, we have all been doing it wrong forever! You are actually meant to park to one side of the space, it was a way of making sure you always had space as the driver to get in and out of the vehicle easily, but nobody ever knew so now you know!
So…according to our BBB…if you stay in your car….you are not parked. So you could for example drive into a bay for a driving break, or let your passenger go shopping, and providing you stay in your car you do not need to pay. I don’t think that would work out well for you!
So in theory then you could wait in a car park to pick up a passenger for any length of time as long as you do not leave your vehicle. That is useful for airport pickups.
local by laws helped out by the local government, a new law
If the definition of parking is leaving your car, what happens if you sit in your car waiting for someone who has gone shopping? You haven’t left your car so does that mean you haven’t parked?
In the situation where you stuck in the entrance behind a barrier not accepting the terms, I would just pull the handbrake and wait until you can get permission to enter and leave without any chance of being pursued for a fine. Might teach them a lesson at the same time if nobody can enter the car park for a long while.
In a Manchester town called Hyde, infamous for moors murderers and shipman, etc, there is a sizable carpark of 2 halves without any meaningful demarcation line, it is apparently encompassed in the bay markings, however unknowingly the left hand machine was inoperative a ticket was purchased from the opposite machine slapped on the dashboard, no clear signage of the differing sites, resulting in a parking fine and no appeal, democracy at work
...that's why there's a 10 minute GRACE PERIOD
Also you cannot be parked in a car park until you have actually parked the car as you cannot be sure there is space available. Why would you pay for parking when there is no parking spaces, so getting a ticket before you park would be pointless. In barrier controlled parking, then the barrier will only go up if there are spaces are available, therefore in part at least you know there should be parking available.
Superb BBB! Thank you
Surely the definition is not a person leaving the car, but where the car is left regardless of occupants within a vehicle. But then, what’s the legal definition of being ‘left’?
the car parking debate becomes more interesting in this regard when discussing leaving the car to obtain change to use in a coin operated meter. ( if there is such a thing now.)
isn’t there case law judgement to that regard?
You say that to meet the definition of parking, you should leave the car. What happens if you enter, drop off a passenger and remain seated in the car until the passenger returns. You haven't "left" the car so can you be charged for parking.
A lot of car parks you have to leave walk away from car to get a ticket. So mould that mean you have left the car, so it's parked?
What about parking on a grass verge next to car park. Is that illegal?
Should the definition of parking a car also include that after leaving a car that the someone intends to return to the car, within the agreed time, to continue driving the car, this is the car is not being abandoned ?
This is a really nice explanation, thank you.
I have had several instances where I have entered a car park where I have not been able to find a parking space, usually because although the machines count the spaces against the number of vehicles they can't account for those vehicles occupying two spaces or where the available spaces are so tight that any available space has vehicles in the adjacent bays up to the white line meaning that if you could drive into the space you couldn't get out of the car. Also, some car parking has payment methods that I simply cannot accommodate e.g. mobile phone payment (I don't use one normally) or card payment only when I might not have my card or it fails to be read. In all those cases I have had to drive out, which can take 5 minutes or more and then have a 'discussion' with the attendant on the speaker phone at the exit.
No longer drive but do not have a cellphone and my bank's debit cards used to be notorious for not working in many (but not all) machines......
What about those car parks with a barrier and ticket machine? You wouldnt be able to leave without paying something??
There is a principle that argues that anything that is necessary is legal. It is necessary for you to read the sign to have a contract. It is necessary for you to safely park the car so you can get out to read the sign. It is further necessary for you to get out to read the sign. Thus personal definitions and 1 off opinions don't come into it. It would have been dangerous not to pass him on the left; thus passing on the left was legal.
Weirdly useful video - I was going to ask you a qestion about this after something that happened yesterday.
I rode my motorcycle into a waitrose car park thinking I could take a little break, got off, looked at the signs and saw it was "For customers only... protected by ANPR" and, as I didn't have my wallet, I saddled up and left again. Whole thing was about 5 or 6 minutes. I've been wondering if I'll hear from them since then so it's nice to have something legal to push back with 😉
Most ANPR cameras view the vehicle from the front so that as your bike probably hasn't got a number plate on the front you are probably safe even if they have a camera on the exit that reads the rear number plate so that the machine can't tell what time you arrived.
Do you need to buy something to be a customer, could be a query or just looking thank you very much?
It's crazy to say a car is only parked if someone is not in it. People pull into service stations on the motorway to have a quick nap. The car must surely be parked for them to do that
What is the definition of "leaving your car in the car park" please? Is this leaving your car as in getting out of it and walking away, or is this leaving your car as in it being present in the car park for more than a trivial amount of time? I assume the latter, however the wording could be taken as ambiguous.
So, if I stay in the car can it be defined as leaving my car?
Have you "Parked" If you are waiting for someone so you drive into the car park but do not get out or leave it there.
Thank you for this
If that quoted is the legal definition of "parking":
"...parking a car is leaving a car and, I should have thought, nothing else..."
Then if you don't actually 'leave' the vehicle, then it hasn't been "parked" in a legal sense. Following this logic you can drive into a car parking area (such as at a motorway services), stop the vehicle and remain in it for however long you like irrespective of any 'parking conditions' that might say 2 hours maximum only, because if you haven't actually "left" the vehicle at any point, then you haven't 'parked' it there at all according to the legal definition of what parking is!
Linking back to the previous video about sleeping in a vehicle, then once again this definition of parking means the vehicle hasn't been "parked" if you haven't left it because you've gone to sleep whilst inside it. Therefore any 'parking restrictions' can't apply if the vehicle hasn't been 'parked' by virtue of the driver not leaving it because they went to sleep whilst inside it.
In practice if any of these came to a court I can't help feeling the 1937 views of a judge will be swept to one side by the views of a 2022 judge.
Thought there was something passed that ALL carparks had to allow you a 10 minute window.
I've been threatened by a parking warden with a ticket while still sitting in the car. So they were acting illegally?
'discussions' 🤣
Try Bath City Council
They no longer allow Sunday parking on the city under previous accepted accepted Sunday parking rules (ie- certain bays and single yellows)- which I accpet because the parking bays have cheap tape over "except Sunday' - but most if the country have single yellows as acceptable after a certain time and generally Sundays...
My issue is with signposting.
NOWHERE does it say this ans they expect you to check online what their rules are
Which they also don't tell you to do
Isn't leaving your car open to interpretation. It could be interpreted as getting out of your car and closing the door.
Dear BlackBeltBarrister, I quote from a "qualified lawyer" on the JustAnswer website: "Parking has been considered by then higher courts and it doesn't mean actually abandoning the car. It just means causing it to come to rest at any one location." Do you disagree and think this lawyer made false guidance/advice? Would you be so kind and explain your thoughts about this in another update video? Thank you, one of your subscribers.
The only problem with your explanation is the parking companies are presumably aware of the case you have cited regarding definition of parking, and they easily get round this by stating " by parking or remaining in this car park you agree to the terms". You then only have a period of 5 or 10 minutes to leave after which it is deemed that you have remained in the car park, whether parked or otherwise and a parking charge is then due. As many car parks capture your image immediately on entry and then when leaving, 5 minutes is not very long to decide if a space is available and if the terms are acceptable, hence many drivers get caught out.
what if , you just stay in the Car. You park on a road with paid for parking , you stay in the car for hours, using this definition you are not parked , therefore you cannot be charged.
to quote "if you did not leave your car in that place, you didn't park it" has the BBB just opened the floodgates for a lot of retrospective invalid fines to be challenged.
What about no parking signs on public roads? Can you then stop your car there, but just sit there without leaving your car for an indefinite amount of time?
Not sure if the word"even"belongs in the headline of this video
Parking, stopping, waiting, loading, all different, as is stationary as part of the normal flow of traffic.
How old is that judgement? Police enforced parking? Not in decades :)
Define "leave your car".
Ha! In my teenage years (70’s), ‘parking’ meant you and your boyfriend (or girlfriend if you were a boy) found a quiet dark place out in the country so you could ‘make out.’ NOW…’making out’…THAT definition, my dears, is for another video/day! 😂🤣🇺🇸
@@BBBCP-564pawyt so sad for you - that you didn’t get to be a part of the normal folk in the 70’s. ‘Times’ were NOT what they are today…UNFORTUNATELY.
@@BBBCP-564pawyt I was quite impressed by someone who was teenager in the 70’s using Emoji's at the end of sentence, if sentence is still a thing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (❁´◡`❁) (●'◡'●) :-) now still
But
even in the explanation
‘It is defined as…’ then ‘in my opinion…’
now yes, that may be a learned opinion, but if law is easy to define, we wouldn’t need courts; or twisty turny barristers that ‘find’ ‘loopholes’ while those who cannot afford the twisty turny barristers have to cough up because the law does not apply until my twisty turny has had a word with a court judge.
anyway, thanks for appraising all of us who cannot afford twisty turny barristers and demystifying law. Please do keep it up.