Attacking America Is a Devastating Miscalculation - Sarah Paine
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- Опубликовано: 2 фев 2025
- Full Episode: • Sarah Paine EP 2: Why ...
Transcript: www.dwarkeshpa...
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From Episode 2 of my lecture series with Sarah Paine!
Enjoy!
SARAH PAINE AMA -
Tomorrow (Jan 30th) the third and final episode in the lecture series drops! For a limited time after the release, Sarah will be answering your questions in the comments. Really excited for this one!
Why do you promote this reject?
@@lorenzkraus6888 he makes her money obviously lmfao what do you think
How do escalating tensions in the South China Sea affect North Korea’s strategic positioning and diplomatic leverage?
@@DwarkeshPatel
I adore this woman's mind.
Never interrupt Americans being pissed at each other to be pissed at you.
😂
@@sulla1537 Accurate. I was just thinking that we're like petulant siblings. Sure, we're punching each other in the face, but god help anyone else that shows up and throws a rock at either of us.
Exactly, it's like domestic disputes. Don't get involved, or they'll turn on you.
so much mental masturbation in all of these comments and the entire podcast... this is all said to just ramp up American jingoism - she talks about 9/11 but doesn't mention the costly wars that went on after for years on end with no real resolution. The Taliban were majorly spurred on by the US government and the Iraq and Afghanistan wars spent trillions of American dollars that could've gone to health care, education, and aid in this country. Not to mention all the warmongers profiteering from extended conflict and the senseless death of American lives so the rich could get richer. An mass opioid crisis and dying middle class are a result of awful blank-check policymaking all throughout the start of the 21st century. "Don't mess with us or we'll send our most vicious dogs to your country! Not my child though, I'm an educated elite and my son? He's going to an Ivy League school. But your redneck children can roil in a mutilated death for my benefit for sure." Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, Iraq & Afghanistan -- all dirty wars fought on the laurels of the only noble US war in WW2.
Wise words because we will be unholy pissed at each other and find a way to not kill each other (usually).
Outsiders will not be granted the same leniency.
"There is political turmoil in the USA! Now is the time to strike while theyre divided!"
*stricks the US*
US: Congratulations, you have our undivided attention
👍
@@FLBLUE777 Now I see why so many came from Europe and why our framers built our constitution they way they did.
lol we aren't the parties and the same doner trash that is mucking up everything also bought other countries too. Why were European countries put in an adversarial role with the states, though we are partners with many in europe?
As armed as America is, if the people were divided the entire world would hear the guns banging lmao.
We debate and no one likes the corrupt establishment.
@@rosc2022 There was political turmoil in 1941. Americans were divided between being an isolationist to an understanding of entering WWII. Don't mess with America.
Stricks the U.S? Please tell me that’s a spelling error!? 😮
About a month too late
A few hours after the 9/11 attacks I listened to shortwave newscasts from around the world. The only 100% common theme was "whoever did this, you chose THE wrong folks to pick a fight with".
I remember even as a school age kid…the general sentiment was condolences…understandably because this was an unprecedented attack. But also because EVERYONE knew that anything remotely close to joy would automatically put you on America’s hitlist for the next 2-3 generations
Most of the time we’re content to pick on each other and squabble about our differences. But people keep forgetting we _are_ still 50 war tribes in a trench coat, and nothing unites us more completely than a clear and hostile enemy attacking our land.
I remember seeing the reports on various involved nations celebrating openly about the collapse of the towers and the reaction of everyone else was “oh those poor bastards.”
Ourselves, you mean?
Yeah the people were lied to.
Its an inside job.
An excuse for genocide
And to destroy the proof in the building
A war machine born from hell
We wont mess with you but God will.
By that time you will realize, yall were not so high and mighty like you think you are
Erasing million lives is not to be proud of..only devils is proud of america..a shame to the whole world
What a pity they never found out who but just went on rampage of destruction.
Don’t touch our boats.
They drop the sun on you
The cross section of fan bases here is a circle 😅😅😅
MUH BOATS.
Except for the USS Liberty🤣
Some of us have checklists :)
As I understand it, Yamamoto (who studied in the US) understood this about Americans, and had strongly advised against the attack. But Tojo was a big believer in Japanese superiority and that Americans were lazy, and corrupt, and pushed forward believing it would be a cake walk.
In other words, Tojo was a racist.
Yamamoto said to the Japanese military high command on the submission of his Pearl Harbour attack plan, " if we go through with this, I will run rampant in the Pacific for 6 months, then we should sue for a peace deal, any longer and we are doomed". He got it fairly right , after Midway there was no possibility of a Japanese victory.
The Japanese superiority is mostly not true. Everyone knew well how much of a sleeping beast the US was.
I've come to the realization that Tojo and his ilk were gamblers. They won against the Russians before even if it was thought impossible, surely they can pull off the same miracle.
Japan was always army superiority over navy. Tojo was pro-army.
@@madensmith7014 less gamblers and did the only move they thought they could make, it was either die now or maybe win, they picked maybe win. even the slimmest chance of victory was better than defeat and the Amercans had backed them into a corner where they had no opton but to fight now or lose later.
The Japanese believed Americans wouldn't fight, were too materialistic and self-involved. They didn't know enough American history and about Americans. For about 50 years after the American Civil War, the world left us alone because they concluded that if Americans would do that to each other, you didn't want to mess with them.
We are a passionate people, the rest of the world doesn’t quite understand.
Strange how the only to civil wars to mean anything are the American and English. FAFO. For those that mess with Brits and Spams.
@@shadow6543yeah. You folks are always really outspoken about everything. 😄
We are like family. We pick at each other but if you touch one of us you will fight ALL of us.
@@chomama1628 Unless you’re a regular joe with a federal job or soldier that happens to be lgbt 😅
The talks with this woman are phenomenal. Thank you for interesting content
Nope she’s just a dem tool.
I experienced this "miscalculation" first hand. I was serving on a volunteer board of a non profit that promoted international culture. This board was very diverse and included folks that had immigrated from the middle east (including Afghanistan, Iran, & Iraq). Just a week after 9-11, the board was meeting to decide what to do about our community outreach activities. I kept trying to tell them we were done for the foreseeable future. They kept insisting that it would all blow over and we'd go back to normal. I told them that right that very minute, as we were talking, US special forces were already on the ground in their countries preparing that ground for war. That within weeks, a significant troop insertions would be happening to at least one of their countries, and that within months, the full force and might of the US military would be brought to bear and one of them would be the recipient of a large scale invasion. They looked at me like I was a fool to be pitied.
Despite the fact that we'd already invaded Iraq once, and they hadn't even attacked us directly, they thought we'd do nothing.
How did that turn out?
@@bengaljam4550we flattened every last one of them, only to get our victory snatched from us by an incompetent president in one of the single biggest strategic blunders in modern military history.
@@JohnA-ch4sc This "Masculination". Already you lost.
Yeah it was definitely stupid, but I think the point is USA being able to just straight take over another country's government from time to time is viewed as some a sort of international flex. But it's also straight bully behavior and USA ends up leaving with a black eye. I would be quite dangerous for anybody to actually try to take over USA. It's also going to be cyber terrorism and small terrorist attacks from here on out I think.
@@bengaljam4550 I missed the part where OBL is alive?
"Don't tread on me" is one of the oldest American war slogans...
"no step on snek"
Right on.
The other one is don't bend over to pick up the soap
As a european we laugh a lot about america in it's current state, but holy f*uck can you guys be badasses too! I would be proud if i was american, especially at the military 💪🏼
She is brilliant. My wife grew up in Japan and her parents' generation (all deceased now) were the war generation. Her father was in the Japanese Navy and survived two of the most deadly naval battles in history, and her mother saw her city Sendai destroyed (like almost all Japanese cities) by American bombers. Her parents hated the war and were actually happy about the (relatively benign) postwar American occupation. But, of course, during the war her parents "did their duty" and never opposed the government.
the parents never expected to see their children again
Sad war
The term "relatively benign" makes me uneasy. (It reminds me of the Douglas Adams book title MOSTLY HARMLESS...)
@Blaqjaqshellaq there's a reason for NATO having 30+ members. Think about Berlin wall.
@ Many people hated the Berlin Wall, but its construction may have prevented World War III...
Up until 9-11 Japanese public schools never taught about Pearl Harbor. It was quite a shock to today's Japanese when they started hearing about 9-11 being "The Second Pearl Harbor". They REALLY SAT UP in their seats when they heard this!
They still don't teach everything the Japanese army and "statesmen" like Kishi did between 1930 and 1941. That's why my mom thinks Nanjing was overblown.
@@MMuraseofSandvich Yea and the US doesnt teach about the war crimes they committed either. What is your point?
I live in Hawaii we were taught in elementary school middle school and high school about Pearl Harbor. I remember the bugler for the USS West Virginia coming into our class in fifth grade and sharing his story. He jumped overboard after the two bombs exploded. Swam through flaming oil in the water to survive. Swimming underwater and clearing a hole to breathe through the fire with his hands.
@@Maibuwolf I was taught about many war crimes USA committed here in the states - a majority of it in college but some in high school. We spent a good chunk of time on the My Lai massacre and the picture of the kidding running and napalm is plastered in my textbook. Along with that we also learned about:
The trail of tears
Japanese internement camps
Atom bombs (from both perspectives)
And my favorite history teacher even touched on the firebombings the allies did in WW2
So I don't know what you're talking about lol
@@Maibuwolf We do though... We have more US history classes than World history classes. We learnt about Vietnam and the Mai Lai massacre and such in highschool and before that we learn about slavery and before that we learn about how we genocided the natives before, during, and after Manifest Destiny.
I live in Hawaii we were taught in elementary school middle school and high school about Pearl Harbor. I remember the Bugler for the USS West Virginia, Richard Fiske coming into our class in fifth grade and sharing his story. He jumped overboard after the two bombs exploded. Swam through flaming oil in the water to survive. Swimming underwater and clearing a hole to breathe through the fire with his hands. Rip sir
That "No" was just beautiful
So much of American culture is explained in this “No.”
China has never been part of Japan, so what was Japan doing there in the first place? Their actions during the war led to immense suffering and loss of life in a country where they had no rightful presence. Given this history, it’s understandable that feelings of resentment and mistrust persist.
As for Japan’s defeat in World War II, it might have been avoided had they not provoked the United States by attacking Pearl Harbor. Before that, the U.S. had maintained a largely isolationist stance, primarily supplying weapons to various sides without direct involvement in the conflict. It was Japan’s decision to draw the U.S. into the war that ultimately sealed their fate.
@@AdrianCHOY Hence the Not The Nine O'Clock News joke during Reagan times that America was trying to make up for being late to the last two World Wars by being really early for the next one.
Japan wanted to modernize China the same way it modernize Korea and Taiwan.
@@LarryWater What are you talking about? China rejects Japan. There’s no way Japan can impose its values on China.
"We attacked three boats, they dropped the SUN ON US TWICE."
-TheRussianBadger
😢😢😢
Not quite. Japan committed an entire slew of war crimes in Asia, they took Guam, Wake Island, the Philippines, and were headed to Australia to take that over until the US stopped them. They treated allied POWs abysmally and the Bataan Death March is the crowning event of their brutality. So not exactly just 3 boats.
They also committed unspeakable torture and medical experiments on captured us soldiers akin to the brutality of the nazis.
@@FibonaccisghostThey also committed an untold number of war crimes in China which the US didn’t care about in 1937 to 1939 mostly. They also committed atrocities after the Dolittle Raid in Zhenjiang Province. The US only cares about these things if it’s against their interests, not because they are wrong.
@ not quite that either and that’s a really broad claim. The US was China’s main ally in the war against Japan. Why did the US send airmen (the flying tigers) to help the Chinese right at the start of the war? Why did the US put embargos on oil to Japan before the war? Because of what they were doing in Asia. Get out of here with your anti American shit.
The art of war is a cold calculus of blood, famine, and untold atrocities.
The science of war is a calculus of time, money, public opinion, and politics.
The art of war is a tapestry woven in guts, dyed in blood, and displaying horror too unnerving too be fake.
So is the CCP! 👍👍
Also turning neighbors against each other (modern ideological wars)
AMERICANS ARE ANGRY AND NO LONGER FRIENDLY SO LEAVE US BE OR WHAT CAN WE DO TO YOU AS NOW WE HATE ! LOVE IT DO YOU ?? NO FRIENDLY AMERICAN FOR YOU EVER AGAIN AND WE NOW RULE THE WORLD SO SHUT UP AND OBEY AND SUBMIT OR ELSE WHAT CAN WE DO TOO YOU ?? !!!!
And we are TERRIBLE at math, so we just turn the dials all the way up and hope the enemy surrenders before we start inadvertently adding more clauses to the Geneva Conventions.
"If you mess with us, it gets ugly" - mic drop supremo
USA messed in middle east first. Al Qaeda is a by product of it.
Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
@@michaelhartharthart If you don't count terrorists crossing back between Iraq and Afghanistan then sure. It has nothing to do with it.
Iraq isn't the first Country to be a casualty in a war because they failed to keep combatants from using their territory, and they won't be the last.
She a True American who spoke nun but the truth
And if you are an ally, then it is equally dangerous
i think every country feels that way...ww2 showed that America was very good at mass production and our top general Eisenhower's top priority was logistics.
91% tax rate
now china dominates mass production
And who does the massive production now? Not us, half as much as decades ago.
I have always wondered how the second war war would have gone for America if the Russians had not fought the Germans first.
Top priority being logistics? HMz, yeah, look into operation Market Garden. That logistics caused half my country to suffer a winter of hunger intstead of being liberated. Thanks, i guess?
One of the weirdest facts is that very soon after the Americans had exacted their plentiful vengeance, the two parties proceeded to get along quite well.
As it should be. We got our point across. Why would we want an enemy vs a friend :)
Because the Allies learned a lesson from WW1. If you penalize your defeated enemy, they will hate you. That was the cause of WW2. But if you befriend your defeated enemy, and help them rebuild, then you make a friend, as happened with Japan and Germany.
@@scotth6814
Precisely. I'd say WW2 was the fault of the Allies more than anything else, with the Treaty of Versailles.
@@scotth6814True but that was a lesson learned too late. The sanctions put on Germany after WW1 is what allowed hitler to gain power and start ww2.
@@thalmoragent9344 i would agree but we still can’t shirk main responsibility being the countries that invaded other countries.
Guys, watch the full interview after the short before commenting. I am seeing some funny comments due to a lack of context. This woman is genuinely insightful.
The thumbnail is wrong. It shows WTC when the topic is WW2.
@@dianhyouvideothe context is retaliation.
Or not.
She's literally just a propagandist for US hegemony.
@@codyvandal2860well shes not wrong. But thank you chairman mao
The US was not leaving the UK hanging out to dry. They helped as much as was legally allowed and often went beyond that.
Also the Us has made it's share of devastating miscalculations, like Vietnam, Iraq. Even Afghanistan turned out to be a disaster.
Vietnam is one of our top trade partners. It was a mistake at the time but looks better now
She was saying what it looked like from the Japanese perspective.
No. They SOLD as much as they could (at extortionate rates) to the UK, whilst still trading with the Germans.
"Hanging out to dry" is a short form description of how the Japanese military, who were running the show, perceived what was happening. Elsewhere there's a Short where she points out US saw the mission in Afghanistan and Iraq to be "nation building" where there was no preexisting sense of "nation" to build on. She makes the distinction with rebuilding Germany and Japan where there was a historic national identity and many of the structures of civilian government were still in place.
Well the treasury secretary at the time is quoted to say that the goal of lend-lease was to strip the British Empire of its assets to ensure post-war U.S. dominance. The secretary of war Henry Stimson said that FDR used the policy to avoid the reconstitution of British empires own world dominance from the ashes of the war.
The people didn't have a large appetite for another war and to be honest that is fair enough, but those in power certainly used the bulk of the period to position themselves ahead at the detriment of their allies. That "legally allowed" stuff doesn't really play for a country that does what it likes when it suits them.
They of course were only pushed to join after being attacked themselves.
There’s definitely a truth that on that outside we can look divided and vulnerable. Even right now, we are going through political division and turmoil. I guarantee this though - if there was a major terrorist attack or attack from another nation on our soil, we would become united and forget those divisions real fucking quick.
Japan never thought they could win against America. Admiral Yamamoto studied at harvard and loved hotdogs and baseball and knew just how large and powerful america was - he kney they'd never win. The Japanese plan was to seize control of southeast asia and to destroy a crippled american navy in the pacific after pearl harbor. Problem is America was very much capable of replenishing its navy to more than what the Japanese can handle
I would love to be at a dinner party with her and her husband. Talk about great table talk.
Husband? oh, I thought she was a lesbian 🤭
Yeah right. She’s a dem propagandist she only tells you what you want to hear and not the truth. She keeps you indoctrinated by the rulers.
The Japanese thought that they would sue for peace. They really believed we would not respond.
Same with al-qaeda .There is a myth that Bin Laden wanted US to intervene to harm our global rep. This is false. The Bin Laden papers reveal that OBL thought America would capitulate to his plans once it costs us on the mainland. He was completely caught of guard by the scale of our response. It also prevented him from launching a bunch of other terrorist plots he had imagined. As a result AQ disintegrated.
They had the experience against the Russian tsar in 1905, and thought that the USA would be the same.
They planned to lure the Pacific fleet into a trap like the Philippines and pull a victory like sushima, then sue for peace. Pearl Harber worked to well and actually might have been a saving grace for the US. Had they only damaged the fleet and the US scrambled everything to the Philippines to save it, it could have been worse. The Japanese never hit the pearl oil supply for that reason.
@boulderbash19700209 Yes very true, however Teddy Roosevelt negotiated peace between the two. Ultimately the Japanese would not have prevailed. In the early 40s Japan clashed with Russia again. They were soundly defeated. They backed down.
The idea of the "Kantai Kessen". The "Decisive Battle" that would win the war. But it never happened.
Love the editing. Her talks are nice, but the context your edits make are great!
Dwarkesh is quickly becoming my favorite podcaster. Keep up the good work!
lol wtf does he meaningfully provide that makes him suh a good podcaster
No he’s not. Tucker Carlson is much better at seeking the truth. Dwarkesh takes everything at half measure…
@@schuylerkrizay6192he is sorta like a more knowledgeable tech bro podcaster with more knowledge in history and geopolitics than lex
@@wilburbrickowskidumbo tucker doesn't know 1% of technical IT knowledge as dwarkesh
This lady is so logical in her interpretation of these small facts and large narratives and strings them into perfect sense based on what we know. I love to listen to her work her way through history.
I’m a firm believer that is a handful of Arleigh Burkes were parked in the SCS, the Chinese demolition-derby in other nation’s fishing waters will stop. Instantly.
Eh no..China got the biggest navy now. They got way more modern ships than the US. Stop thinking like we are still the big dog. We aren't anymore.
“If you mess with us, it’s ugly.” What an accurate statement.
Not always. Trump promised to crush the Taliban but instead put them in power.
One of my top favorite historians.
I love you so much Dr Paine. I literally search for your videos to relax. It's comforting to know we have people like you around in these troubling times.
You, Arthur Waldron and Chomsky have the most soothing voices and brains.
Never underestimate America's capacity to do what's right after exhausting every option that's wrong first.
Said Winston Churchill in WW2
The quote is "Americans can always be trusted to do the right thing, once all other possibilities have been exhausted." That's quite a bit different from your take.
@@twells138too much John Wayne movies.
In Trump we can’t be more wrong so hopefully this means the USA’s best years are after 2029
Sarah Paine is the walking embodiment of real politik - and I love it!
I think Yamamoto understood us, but could not convince the IGHQ.
A WOMAN ANTHROPOLLOGIST DID THIS , NAME?? BUT MENTOR TO MARGARET MEAD AND THANKFULLY TRUMAN LISTENED TO AN EXPERT ON JAPAN AND TOLD TRUMAN YOU CANNOT KILL THE EMPEROR HE IS NOT TO BLAME HE IS CONSIDERED A GOD ON EARTH TO THEM AND DID NOTHING WRONG HE IS A PRISONER ALSO SO DO NOT HARM HIM THIS MAN OR LIVE TO REGERT IT TRUMAN AND HE LISTENED TO A WOMAN !! OMG BE THANKFUL TO HER AND HER NAME , BY 2am will remember it !! lol
I think he understood it very well. I think that after 1942 (Midway, Guadalcanal and the naval battles off Guadalcanal) the IGHQ was realizing this too. But now they saw no way out that was not "dishonorable". The Japanese manga writer Shigeru Mizuki was an infantryman, and badly injured in the war. He has written about this.
Yamamoto understood cause he went to college in America and saw the American spirit.
And his contemporaries didn’t want to hear it.
People always think “oh America is fighting themselves, like always, now’s our chance” it’s like picking on your sibling. You can do it… anyone else does… oh boy you’re in for a reckoning
Unfortunately USA as a nation has crossed the Rubicon.
@@joannekelly5132according to who? We have not crossed anything
@@chrisemmett8979 everyone watching you that is a student of history. A nation divided will not stand.
“We don't want war. But if you want war with the United States of America, there's one thing I can promise you, so help me God: Someone else will raise your sons and daughters." Medal of Honor Recipient, David Bellavia.
Didn't he get in Iraq? Don't recall Iraq attacking the US.
when did the vietnamese / vietkong hurt u guys?
@@rickyp6815You're correct, Iraq did not attack us, but what does that have to do with the quote you're replying to? Nobody is claiming we ONLY go to war if we're attacked.
I usually appreciate Sarah Paine's historical insights. Sadly, she misses the mark badly here. Franklin Roosevelt gave a speech in Ohio before Pearl Harbor with the intent of convincing Americans to help the British in their war against Germany. The public reaction to that address was profoundly negative. Americans were rightfully tired of fighting European wars after the slaughter they endured during WWI. After America saved Europe from itself in WWI, Woodrow Wilson advised Britain and France not to impose the harsh peace of the Versailles Treaty on Germany. Arrogantly, they told Wilson to mind his own business.
If America was so isolationist, why did Americans march into Europe to save the day after internecine European diplomacy had unleashed the horrors of trench warfare during WWI? When Americans attempt to avoid getting dragged into deadly and costly wars, they are derided as isolationist. When Americans march in to save other countries, they are derided as imperialist. Can you see the hypocrisy here? Much of this anti-American blather constitutes gaslighting and sour grapes from countries and their agents who are insanely jealous that the Pax Americana of the last 80 years has made America the global hegemon.
When will you realize she’s just a paid dem who tries to indoctrinate you??
When will you realize that she isn’t qualified to speak on anything?
Pretty sure Russia did all the heavy lifting...the Americans just made loads of money ....
It’s amazing to go back to the interwar years & see how widespread was the belief that WW1 was a mistake. I’m not saying I think that. But the idea had loads of support during the Twenties & Thirties. Makes the post-Pearl Harbor unity even more impressive. And the nation never panicked during the first six months of utter military disaster - Philippines, Java Sea, Wake, Singapore, Dutch East Indies, etc.
@@elizabethwinsor-strumpetqueenNot in the Pacific, they didn’t.
You're still not getting Greenland.
Yes we are, Greenland is keen.
If we really want it we will have it, who will stop us.
"We can take what we want, who will stop us". Congratulations, you sound like Hitler now.
@@johnbelow578but at what cost? The entire EU will be alienated.
is that the point if this
vid? just because you can do something militarily it doesn’t mean its the right strategy. if you march into greenland, that will effectively end the western alliance. The free world will fracture and be weakened. How is that in any way in America’s interest.
Growing up as an expatriate kid in Saudi Arabia, expatriates from third world countries were treated like trash by Arabs and locals ...however Americans were treated with respect and the joke we said amongst ourselves was that if something were to happen to us, our government would send us a bill to bring us back.... if an American gets touched, the US would send an F16. Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine growing up as a kid that one day I would be a proud American citizen.
Mentioning Angela Merkel and Neville Chamerberlain within a breath at 04:09 is devastating and hilarious.
Chamberlain gets a bad wrap in history, and I'm really surprised that someone as smart as her buys into the common narrative about him be naive about the Germans.
Chamberlain knew if England would have gone to war with Germany at that point they'd have lost, one the surface it appeared he was appeasing Der Fuhrer but behind the scenes he was buying time and pushing for more Spitfire's and other "latest" developments in war equipment to be produced and brought online, he knew war with Germany was inevitable, but he also knew England needed more time to prepare for it, and he was right wasn't he? The proof is after 2 more years of procuring the latest war machines they just barely won the Battle of Britain, they'd have lost it in 38.
yea, that was a tad weird, as Merkel wasn't even Chancellor anymore when the full scale invasion started on 02/24/2022. Maybe she did some statements earlier regarding Putin, but whatever..
Prof. Paine is brilliant. I can't get enough of her lectures.
No, she is far from brilliant. She’s not even that smart in conventional metrics.
The US really had alot of the perfect internal and external conditions. Good for the USA.
I would love to hear a back and forth between Paine and Chomsky.
Chomsky would get trounced. Smart guy but ignorant of history and incapable of being impartial.
Agreed, would be incredible.
So a cia propagandist vs an insane communist
So a cia mouthpiece vs a delusional communist
Chomsky would die in the process...
FDR was the right president to have at that time in history. We had the industry to reformat to build tanks, ships, planes. Its a different country now.
FDR prolonged the great depression, kept the US in poverty for years, and created the welfare state that is still bleeding us dry. He was no hero in my book. When are we getting the old deal back?
Yeah America would be fucked in a total war scenario without its allies .
FDR would sweep in modern usa.
@@bluesclues132well no we can still produce our own weapons mostly it's just the more complicated equipment that's a problem.
@@bluesclues132 "Allies"? - a Canadian
I hope Ms Paine is only away temporarily. Her talks are illuminating ! i would love for this series continue to include what is a stake today : Can China succeed the USA to be the #1 Superpower without war? or does military history indicate that war is absolute when #2 China or any #2 ascends to # 1 ? Can diplomacy stave this off or is it far too late
Paine is blind as a bat when it comes to modern china. She is the personification of midwit modern political dogma.
I have a pro 2A T Shirt that says, "Shall not be infringed" and below it, it says "every blade of grass in bold letters". Which is a quote from a Japanese admiral from WWII
Thats great man I'm happy for you. Must be a really cool shirt
Ironic, considering that "2A" stuff deletes 10s of thousands per year - many Pearl Harbors, every year
@@idonetoldyou5199 Ironic that you understand that criminals commit crimes.
@@idonetoldyou5199 Fentanyl deletes 107,000 per year. 2A is 10 times safer.
The quote, while a cold line, is apocryphal at best
"This is how it goes". Love her tone of voice. So professional but full of empathy.
The Japanese did NOT think that they could “beat” America.
They thought they could negotiate a treaty from a position of temporary strength and get the sanctions and embargoes that the US was applying to Japan lifted.
Again Dwarkesh presents a version of events that I would be embarrassed to see a high school history student present. He really does not understand what he is talking about and yet does it with such smug confidence. Lack of knowledge is fine, smug self satisfaction based on ignorance is not.
🤣 You sound just as smug in this comment. U two are probably one in the same.
From this comment alone Id bet you would do the exact same thing as him with a subject you’re not as familiar with.
@homesteadchrish3107 The difference is I am not making my living by grifting as an intelligent commentator on these issues.
If Dwarkesh was just saying his BS in RUclips comments there’d be no need to address them.
See the difference?
Are you capable of that level of adult nuance?
Or are childish laughing pictures the limits of your cognitive abilities?
@@duncanidaho8234 Who do you think built their manufacturing and created the trade deals that pushed them into a corner? Who funded the Sino Japanese war? Who funded the Russo Japanese war? LOL. you are mere puppets in their cosmic game.
@ What are you addressing though ? Your comment is meaningless and achieved no goal.
Only thing i got from your comment is that you’re kind of a D bag 🤣.
Your vocab and knowledge of this specific part of WW2 history isn’t impressive. Your comment isn’t impressive.
Your words are intelligent, but your delivery is so fail. No true person of intelligence belittles people. You had an opportunity to make a thoughtful correction and add knowledge to his mistake.
I agree with a guest like Dr. Paine from an intellectual standpoint he should have been more on it.
Truly the only thing I got from your comment is that you’re not as smart as you think, which is common
@@homesteadchrish3107 Damn! He roasted you 😂.
We weren't doing anything? We lost the Reuben James not "doing anything." We were sending boats and supplies to England way before Pearl Harbor.
That wasn't her opinion, it was the Japanese opinion. Right or wrong that is what Japan thought. Perception over realtity is a thing.
@matthewgreiner2766 wasn't talking about Japan. She said we were doing nothing to help England. We were. PS. The original plan was to grab the Western Pacific and then sue for peace, leaving them (the Japanese) in control of it. Miscalculation big time. Yamamoto warned them.
@@donswearingen9805 No, she was saying that was Japan's [mis]understanding of the situation. Helps to watch the entire interview.
@@matthewgreiner2766She's wrong of course. The Japanese did not believe that. Abundant evidence to the contrary
Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
The Iraq war was fought to protect Saudi Arabia from Iran and Iraq.
Sadam has a track record of messing with the US… something you don’t do if you wanna live☺️
“Had” lol
Iraq was a needless war, driven by false information and a corrupt executive and cia.
@@Backhoe-mafiaMillons of people died for nothing. Tens of thousands of US troops will deal with missing limbs for the rest of their life and we are trillions in debt.
But hey great idea right
0:02 "They sink everything" umm... no they didn't. There were 96 warships in Pearl that day and only 4 battleships, 3 cruisers, 3 destroyers, 1 anti air training ship, and 1 minelayer. 12 out of 96 is far from them sinking everything.
Right haha. I also take issue with her statement that were doing absolutely nothing to help Britain. Sure we were still "neutral" but we had already been sending arms and supplies across the Atlantic for a year.
We have a battle of autism happening here. “Huh well actually is it was 5 not 6 and 7 not 8” ☝🏻
😂
I almost never respond to RUclips comments, but this one is so stupid i just had to. Just the 4 battleships they sunk equated to about 50% of the tonnage of the 84 they didn't.
Well they crippled the entire Pacific fleet, so that "everything" was more accurate than 12/96. The biggest baddest ships were destroyed
@@Jst4vdeos None of the carriers though, only some of the BB's. Plus, tonnage doesn't mean as much as people keep saying. Submarines did a lot of sinking of ships in WW2 and they are a low tonnage ship.
If you listen to Dan Carlin's Supernova in the East. Japan wanted to take more of the pacific islands, US had territory there. So attack Pearl Harbor hit the fleet, invade the territory quickly, and sue for peace before they can rebuild. It was a succesful tactical strike, but it was a cataclysmic failure on the intel. Their primary targets were aircraft carriers. They were the most expensive and longest to build. Planes could be rebuilt comparatively quickly, and battleships are important situationally, carrier are mobile bases allowing any type of deployment operations globally. And all survived undamaged. So while the battleships/subs were being rebuilt/repaired. The US loaded up the remaining planes and soldiers and began inverting the invasion plan immediately, retaking Japan's expanded territory, and by the time the US was approaching southern japanese islands, battleships were back in the ocean.
I say Japan's plan was potentially the best option they had for their goals. Had they sunk/destroyed some of if not all the carriers it would have changed the Pacfic theater drastically and maybe they wouldve been able to hang on to some of the territory the aquired. Unfortunately for them by 9:30AM December 7, the pacific theater was decided.
Exactly - they counted on taking out those aircraft carriers; if their plan had worked, the whole thing might have played out very differently.
Destroying the carriers looked good on paper. But it's a variation on no plan survives first contact. My guess is maintaining almost complete silence with the Japanese task force means they had good intel about where the carriers were likely to be when they left Japan but no way of knowing the carriers were gone until pilots were in the air over Pearl Harbor. Supposedly commander of the task force and naval staff in Japan realized the likely consequences of the failure.
But neither side really fully understood that carriers were the main force until Midway. Japan heavily subscribed to decisive battle doctrine, and they specifically wanted to eliminate battleships. Yamamoto gave the go-ahead to start the attack despite learning the carriers weren't there. How can you say the carriers were the target when they still attacked knowing the carriers weren't there?
@@daroaminggnome your partly correct and japan was in a prisoners dilemma. listen to the podcast, he goes through the thought processes and justifications for the attack, with sources from the soldiers and leaders. It takes like 2.5 hours. I gave the most laconic synopsis possible.
@@daroaminggnome Carries were expected to arrive on Friday or Saturday. When they didn't, spies got info to Japan but the task force was operating under radio silence and naval staff were unable to contact and inform about carriers. The great unknown is what Nagano would hawve done with that information.
Thanks for posting this.
While attending the NWC in 1991, there was a lecture in which the professor attempted to explain the reasons that the Western Front battles just did not end. He explained that there were three points where the Allies had such an advantage that they should have offered peace terms to the Germans and three points where the Germans had such an advantage that they should have offered peace terms to the Allies. He further explained that emotion triumphed over rationality and that leaders felt that all the sacrifices made to date would have been in vain had the war just stopped through negotiations. It was an eye-opener.
Insightful. And probably a similar argument regarding the current Russia/Ukraine war
thank you for your service
And the guy interviewing her is a baby, he knows nothing of the horrors the Japanese did to British and American pows. He needs to read a history book to know how pissed off the Americans were in WW2. They were also pissed af about being dragged into another European conflict and pissed that the Japanese had forced their hand. Oh yeah baby there would be payback.
That's what an interview is for..
He does seem naive at times, but he also gets some amazing answers.
pissed? about having us do all the fighing so you didnt have to face a western hemishpere full of nazis?
@@jegbryrmegikke1 The US didn't do all the fighting. The Russians had 25 million killed. Hell, even Britain lost more dead than the US.
@@jegbryrmegikke1Lol sure buddy mustahce man was gonna take vancouver
from the bits of Yamamoto's journals ive seen he was pretty aware he was poking the bear and knew full well he was going to have to win fast or get out manufactured. and i think Americans over estimate how easy that theatre was to win, if a couple of battles had gone the other way and they really could of...
You shouldn't have done that Bin Laden, Sadam Hussein is gonna pay for this!
A famous military RUclipsr, habituallinecrosser, had the perfect quote, “America is 50 war tribes with a defense budget to fight god”
This has some historical inaccuracies. Japan didn’t attack us because they thought they could win and we were isolationists. We were intervening in their ability to gather supplies to build their war machine. That’s the opposite of isolationism. The reason for taking an action as extreme as Pearl Harbor was to cripple the American navy long enough to gain enough traction in China so they could sustain the war effort.
If they had been successful, the American navy would not be able to disrupt their activities in the South Pacific.
And the bottom line is, Roosevelt wanted the war to happen. Prior to Pearl Harbor, the American people were overwhelmingly against intervention. We were still dealing with the Great Depression because the New Deal wasn’t working. Entering the war meant jobs and commerce and those who argued against war could easily be silenced by charges of being weak or a traitor.
Sarah Paine may be one of the most fascinating people ever.
Was the 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor delusional? Not quite. The US at the time was a pacifist society that cherished its isolation. Its army was quite large but not ready for combat. Its air force was only recently created and lacked hardware. The newly declared open war with Japan and Germany triggered panic amongst the military who were hopelessly behind their enemies in terms of weapons and skills. It was only thanks to America's gigantic manufacturing power and its flexibility that new weapons, tanks, airplanes, submarines, aircraft carriers, and more began their flow towards America's military, making them best equipped in the world within two years, even if still inexperienced.
Yes but if they didn’t attack Pearl Harbor we would have stayed isolated. I think that was her point
Yamamoto himself said he feared that Japan was only awakening a sleeping giant. But he had actually studied in America. The rest of them were oblivious.
Manufacturing and logistics are the foundation of total war. Not a sidenote. Japan never had a way of hitting US manufacturing centers. We weren't a pacifist society, in the previous hundred years we had fought the Mexican-American war, Civil War, Spanish-American War and WW1. We wanted peace but we weren't afraid of war. The idea that sneak attacking us and killing thousands of our citizens without ever posing an existential threat to our homeland would lead us to jussurrender was based on delusions rather than cold calculus in my opinion.
The Japanese miscalculated American character and resolve.
I think the perception of weak pacifists was a cultural misunderstanding on the part of the Japanese; "don't bother me, I'm busy watching the game" is nowhere near the same as "too chicken to fight." Americans generally don't want to fight someone else's war for them, particularly if the outcome doesn't affect their day-to-day life overly much. As a nation we saw what a collection of squabbling children Europe routinely behaved as, all fighting to trade the same chunks of real estate back and forth for centuries, and wanted none of it.
Comfort in history, comfort in hindsight.
Japan underestimated the US reaction. The Taliban were counting on US overreaction.
US politics wouldn't be so divided today if not for 9-11.
The US is now sabotaging its own alliances and isolating itself again
However its because of those alliances the world is very unstable.
Nations have taken to manipulation and backhandedness vs all out wall.
Why deploy troops when you can economically cripple your opposition.
The cold war was very profitable for the military industrial complex.
We shoved our noses in Iran on behalf of Britian. We turned away Mhin and sided with France in Nam. We meddled in Korea.
Honestly if nations just left each other alone and pursued their interest, and cooperated when it suited them. The world would be far better.
It was not the Taliban. It was Al-Qaeda & OBL who was merely being hosted by the former in Af, since the latter had fought for them a common enemy: the USSR & brought his then friends (the US) to aid. After Gulf War 1, OBL then turned against the US. Correct: he provoked & counted on American over reaction. And guess what? That's exactly what happened. The US bombed, occupied & tried to rebuild Af for 20 years, expending trillions to no avail.
America is so divided because of the juvenile delinquent repugs
@@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773 that's the dream but not the reality. While you are not wrong in anything you said you are also oversimplifing it. If the US left Europe after ww2 the Soviets would have Conquered all of it. China would have either absorb Korea and Japan or made them puppet states.
It would have only been a matter of time until both or just the Soviets had taken over in influence in South America and parts of the Carribean and then you get a Cuban missile crisis on steroids. This would have completely change the world that we know of today.
@@billkgeorgeThe US is much worse off and the Taliban control the country today. Who won?
Pear harbor wasn't perfect since the they failed at the main objective of sinking/damaging the carrier fleet. Yamamoto never believed that Japan could beat the usa. The hope was to wipe out the carrier's, putting us on the back foot. In the Hope we would sure for peace. Yamamoto did say that he had awoken the sleeping dragon.
The most brutally honest american quote of all time: "they are dead, so who cares?"
A correction on the initial statement that the Pearl Harbor attack was A+ and that they sank everything, without any losses. *_"During the attack, there were 102 ships stationed at Pearl Harbor of which 69 of them received no damage at all. There were 15 ships that received minor damage and 11 more ships that sustained medium to heavy damage. There were 7 ships sunk at Pearl Harbor but of those, only 3 were a total loss, Arizona, Oklahoma (which sank while being towed to the mainland USA) & Utah."_* In addition, zero of the primary targets, aircraft carriers, were at Pearl Harbor during the attack. Finally, the Japanese lost 29 aircraft and 5 midget submarines; about 130 Japanese troops were lost.
Don't interrupt my consumerism... it keeps my rage at bay.
worked out for the buildings owner and the MIC
The Japanese raid on Hawaii was a failure and they knew it. They took a calculated risk because they knew America was going to enter the war and they figured if they could sink the US carriers they could buy themselves enough time to finish their conquest of the Pacific. But the carriers weren’t there and that allowed the US to eventually totally turn the tables when we used those carriers at midway. They knew they couldn’t beat the US so they took a gamble to try to greatly hamstring the Pacific fleet before it could do harm to the Japanese navy. They failed and it cost them.
This is the only lady who talks about war that I listen to
U.S.S. Liberty 🥱🤷
The original main targets were the Carriers, so technically it can be seen as a failure.
Its not a miscalculation if you want to increase military spending, suspend civil rights, increase domestic surveillance and funnel cash to the industrial complex.
Curtis LeMay is a cousin to my grandfather. He played a big role in the war.
So what about the info that came to light after WW2 that suggested the US government knew the Japanese were about to attack Peal Harbor. Choosing to allow it, thus having the justification for the American public to go to war. (At the time, the notion of war was deeply unpopular)
Yup. It's just like that scene in Spiderman with people on the bridge throwing stuff at Goblin when you mess with the United States.
The US didn’t need to step in for the UK as they really weren’t fighting much until waiting to see who would win between Germany and the Soviets
I think that you need to read up on your history as you seem rather ignorant
The UK stood alone against Nazi Germany in Europe from 25 June 1940 (surrender of France) to 22 June 1941 (Nazi invasion of the USSR). During that time the Luftwaffe bombed UK cities and airfields during the Blitz. So it is neither true that the UK was waiting to see which of the Soviets or Nazis won nor that the UK “wasn’t fighting that much”
Britain (and its commonwealth) were fighting in north Africa and south Asia while the Germans and soviets were fighting.
Germany flattened London
@@86pmj was this after the point the Nazis stopped at Dunkirk to let them leave ?
Before the attack on Pearl Harbor, the USA had started gearing up for WW2 with a military draft that was started in 1940, the introduction of the B-17 bomber, the M-1 Grand rifle, the USS North Carolina Battleship, P-40 fighter, etc. Pearl Harbor put it on steroids. Sorry I forget, Lend Lease had already started.
She didn’t seem her normal self in this one. Angrier
It's part of a 2.5 hour interview. I'd be tired too.
Maybe she's just annoyed that this clown is so bad at interviewing.
Tinged with perhaps too much hubris….?
@@BaBaYaga1999-p7u I wouldn’t say she has this normally, but in this one yes. Noticeable hubris
@@BaBaYaga1999-p7uyeah hubris seems the right word
Cerci: What do you know about war?
Tyrion: Nothing. But I know people. And I know our enemies hate each other almost as much as they hate us.
Well, I don't think the attack on Pearl was all that successful. First of all, their primary target- the U.S. fleet- was not present in terms of their most valuable assets, the carriers. Secondly, they ignored the important repair facilities and the fueling facilities. This lack of vision almost insured that the U.S. was going to recover from the damage and strike back at full strength (Midway) and then overwhelming strength (Phillipine Sea.)
It was successful in the eye of Japan. Did you not listen?
@@dantran9962 I don't think that's true, at least for all Japanese. Sure, if you compare Japanese losses to American losses, it was wildly successful, and most Japanese were looking at the immediate results. But big picture, it was an unmitigated disaster. I'm sure you are aware of Yamamoto's quote after the battle: "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." That doesn't sound like an assessment that the attack was all that successful. Plus, I was clearly giving my own personal opinion; I said "I don't think the attack on Pearl was all that successful." I'm sorry if that offended you.
I was watching TV at work when the plane hit the second tower. I turned to my coworkers and said “we are at war” they looked at me like I was nuts
I wonder how we managed to not figure out that almost all the 9-11 terrorists were SAUDI, and we didn't address the SAUDI and CIA linkage????
So the sketchy part my dad has told me from my great grandfather is he was in the Navy during the entirety of WW2 and part of Korea and he mentioned that the sub he was on(mind you he was being tattooed at the time as it was the Philippines) was called to General Quarters two hours before Pearl Harbor happened and his proof was the tattoo he was supposed onto her was a Navy Anchor(pretty stereotypical tattoo but the only one he didnt have) he changed to a watch with the time he was called to Quarters
More recent comparison. On October 8, 2023 a friend in grad school for international relations, called me, I'm 30 years older than her, and asked what will happen. My answer "You can't do something like that to the Jews! This will be bloody!!
A Palestinian is thinking the same thing. Yes it will be bloody, but over confidence and lack of foresight is what got Isra””li gov there.
At the time, we all thought " someone is going to pay" we got played.
Does that give them a license to go to Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria……………
yeah "japan attacked us so we are no longer isolationist, in fact we will be involved in everything from now"
Yes. 100% and the veterans that fought in those wars say they’d do it again. Btw mess with us again cause we want to fight a big fight again. Like general Patton said Americans love a good fight we love fighting ☺️ get fucked
Cry more
you missed the point.... she is saying it has devastating consequences, not that its moral
Those with nothing to lose may attack without fear - not because they expect to win.,
1:51 Well... depends. Vietnam and our wars in the Middle East didn’t end well for American forces
Still, even though it didn’t end well those times we still lashed out absolutely viciously
Didn’t end well for Veit Cong or Al Quada either.
Vietnam, Iraq and the Taliban didn't attack us. There was no public support for these wars. When Americans are attacked and everyone is unanimous then it's hell to pay.
She didn't say we had to win, she just said it gets ugly. She even reinforces the idea when she says "don't think, retaliate" right after that comment, which is what we did after 9/11. And yes, for the people of those countries, "it gets ugly" was an understatement.
No it didn't end well for American military forces. However, for the military industrial complex of American society, which Eisenhower ominously warned the public about, it was a fucking goldmine.
This woman is the most intelligent person I've ever seen on the issues on which she speaks.
Really man, go back to AI please.
I respect you but, your takes on foreign affairs are conventional and are the ones that are being thrown out
Another thing when Japan started the war with America they already had a much larger navy, an enormous air force with the best fighters and experienced pilots. America on the other hand had the economic output to sustain a drawn out war and they had the capability to replenish losses. Japan needed a quick win and every ship and plane lost mattered, they also were entirely on their own they didn't have the necessary trade connections to supply everything for long periods of time, which was literally why they began warfare ironically enough
Classic American imperialist woman.
Typical uneducated sexist from literally anywhere male
Her: "If you attack Americans, they attack you right back!"
You: "Those damn American imperialists."
That's you. That's what you sound like.
@@gametheoreticif you listen to her other speech she sound imperialistic although she’s only explaining US foreign policies I don’t think she’s agreeing with them
@@gametheoretic if the Americans are attacked in colonies they seized, then yes they are imperialist.
@@infantebenji She does agree with them, if you read her book. She also teaches at American Naval war college. Not neutral in any sense.
High casualties at the end of WW II ? Desperation, fanaticism, despair, suicidal resignation. Also 4 engine bombers (Operation Cobra), the Mustang and the proximity fuse.
Some of these regimes fight to the bitter end because they know what awaits them if the do an unconditional surrender and have no place to run off to. They never cared about their people to begin with. The Japanese military was especially like this. Hirohito after Nagasaki's atomic bomb attack wanted to surrender and his military tried to throw a coup against him. Look at Hitler..right to the bitter end. And how many people died for that cause when by 1944 it was clear Nazi Germany was going to lose the war. As for future attacks on America, the terrorist groups and their sponsors have to know that Americans now with Trump will not stick around anymore and "nation build" anymore at great economic cost to the US. That's where all the casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq took place.
I strongly recommend anyone interested in Japan’s decision making during WW2 to look into the almost military junta built around their navy leaders with the facade of constitutional monarchy.
People often view Japan as stereotypically full of honor (which is ironic when you realize ninjas who were assassins and espionage had more loyalty than most samurai class warriors in servitude of a noble) but when you look at the interservice conflicts between the imperial army and imperial navy, they literally sabotaged other Japanese military leaders to further their own initiatives. It went so far as they assassinated their rivals. If you thought Japan made poor decisions in killing their skilled aircraft pilots via suicide attack, just think about the brilliant military leaders they loss due to either murdering them or halting their rise through sabotage.
We don't do proportional retaliation.
"they're messing with our oil"
"they're messing with our WHAT?!"