Very true! If you have time to put work into them you may be able to snag some vintage for cheep but idk if they would be cheeper than this and it may still need a little tweeking but mine was awesome.
I bought an S&J just to try, I fettled it and it worked well so I gave it to my son-in-law. Theyre the same as Faithfulls, my weapon of choice, the only real difference being the handles on the finish of Faithfull planes, leaves a lot to be desired, theyre just pretty rough. But if you have the time, with a few small machinist files, they can be made to fit your hand perfectly.
When I started getting into hand tool woodworking I was like you, watching RUclips videos. At that time I was watching Paul Sellers, Rob Cosman and Samurai Carpenter among other people. Rob Cosman has always said that you should buy the best you can afford of any tool, which is understandable because better tools produce better results. But I followed Paul Sellers advice and got a Stanley no.5 at a flea market for $20 mainly because I couldn't afford the higher priced premium planes and if I decided that I didn't like it as much as I thought, I wasn't out a boat load of money. I also had to do some tuning to get the plane to work well. Good advice for new woodworkers.
100% agree. Good snag on the stanley no 5 for 20! High end planes go hold their value so if someone buys it and ends up not liking woodworking they can deff resell and recoup alot on it. Thank you for commenting! Good stuff for ppl to see!
Very cool ! I'm glad to have come across your video as I just bought this plane along with the number 5 and the block plane. I did not want to spend big bucks on something that I was not sure how much I would use it, but I'm a little more excited about the purchase now after watching the video. Well done, many thanks !
Just found your channel and am enjoying your content....thank-you. I am gradually moving away from floor standing power tools and closer and closer toward hand tool wood working (less dust, noise, expense, space consuming while being safer, more portable (easier to work outside), and apartment friendly). I haven't invested in a quality plane yet, but I have been shopping. I have a small block plane now and have considered getting a #4 or #5. I never heard of S&J until this video. I checked today and the price for the #4 or #5 is about $36 on Amazon and free Prime shipping. Thanks again for the videos.
I am glad you found the channel! We have fun here and are a little crazy hahah Dang, stinks that went up in price, make sure you check for quality control issues but I have heard a lot of good things from other people about this plane! Thank you!!
I’ve got one of those too. The same planes are made by faithful. I have the faithful no. 7 jointer and the spear and Jackson no.4 and I’m ordering the spear and Jackson no.3 and no.5 soon for how good the planes are
You know, I have needed to sharpen my Veritas planes. So, while they may be flat, they aren't use out of the box effectively. But at least they are flat and don't need adjusting! Finish is great.
I'd honestly rather have high carbon steel than some modern steels like A2. High carbon steels get nice keener edges. I like sharpening, so I don't mind having to sharpen back to a thin keen edge. Hearing your excitement in a chipmunk voice is delightful.
Great content! I just found your channel this week and subbed after your series on the Lowe’s Jorgensen planes. I agree about balancing value of tools with amount of performance we can get out of them for the effort required to fettle them into shape. I’d love to have a whole set of LN, Veritas, Clifton, or Woodriver tools, but my mortgage is due and family would appreciate eating this month. I’ve learned so much more from having to do some fettling over the last year and a half of my woodworking journey with midrange affordable tools than I would have if I’d gone with premium. Channels like yours, Wood by Wright, Paul Sellers, and Rex Krueger have been a godsend. I like Rob Cosman too, but we’re just coming at this from different philosophies and places in life imo. Thanks for putting all of this out there.
I love this! Thank you! Yes I would love a full set of every brand so I could look and say hm.. I wanna use a clifton today or maybe a Veritas but... ur right food is needed ahah Also a great point about learning more because you got a midrange plane! Deff helps you to learn and see how a plane works. Overall increasing your knowledge of the tool! Thank you for sharing and subbing!!!
Hey again, glad you found these! Great summary in the outto so people know to be realistic about what they might get 👍 You mentioned Rex, he does know about these already. I was 99% sure they got a plug in the comments so I checked and they were. But more than that there's a video on YT from a viewer showing the S&J plane he was going to send to Rex for evaluation. That was three years ago (man, time flies!) so I don't know why there hasn't been a follow-on video that specifically mentions the brand..... maybe because of the quality control/variability? Anyway, FWIW I'm convinced these are made in the same factory that Faithfull _used_ to use, because they look so much like the Faithfull planes from the time I got mine, including the handle wood and the overthick finish on them hehe. I think that wood is East Indian rosewood BTW, and your plane did have a particularly nice set; it can be a lot more yellowish, which i don't care for much (although it can be stained of course).
Great point in QC! That is a big concern. I'm surprised red got one and didn't do a video on it. I was hoping to hear he did one and had the same results haha but him and I differ on the Jorggy tho I think he got an early model. Their QC isn't the best either. Haha It is deff made in India didn't realize that till someone commented about them being the same as the India ones Rex reviewed. It kinda does look like rosewood but deff didn't wanna say that within being on a $28 plane. I'd get yelled at in the comments hahah
I remember that series of videos too when Rex Krueger was doing a summer series of testing mid-range affordable planes along with some cheap ones on Amazon. This was one of several brands that all came from Sobha (sp?) in India that included Grizzly, Faithful, S & J, and a couple of others. There was even a higher premium line of ductile cast iron for TayTools. The bench dogs were suspected to be part of that too in some videos I saw that I can’t find anymore. I’ve been very happy with my Grizzly planes and one Faithful no 6 as a novice woodworker. There have been a couple QC issues for me that I had to either learn to fettle out or send back to exchange (looking at you Faithful with your international shipping to exchange defective plane irons). Overall though, they have all been great to start woodworking. I’m sure Rob Cosman would find them unacceptable for his experience and high standards, but these are made to actually work for a good price point compared to the harbor freight and amazon basic versions in the world.
@Patrick Howie yes! Exactly! I am learning too. A lot of these brands are actually made in the same factory, just sold under different names hahah 😅 Always remember too, Rob teaches good stuff, but I'll never watch one of his reviews because he is paid by one of the companies, so he does not give unbiased opinions and advice. WR is not top of the line. Do they make good quality, yes, but from experience, they are outshines by veritas and LN in many areas. You can see this by Rob making videos and products to modify WR planes, if they are THAT good, why do they need modified? 🤔 hahah
@@BatCaveCreations That's one good reason to avoid Cosman reviews for sure, but there's something about his manner that I've never taken to and very early on I was put off watching him ever again by some dogmatic pronouncement he made in a sharpening video and I haven't watched one since..... so that's going on about six years now hehe.
I bought a Faithful Hand plane finishing plane? It's a really nice looking plane but the IRON IS BREAKING ON THE TIP OF THE BEVEL. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong with this blade bcos I sharpened my other smoothing plane and it was great. I've been getting great shavings from my 20 euros planes from ROLSON or something like that. The handles are cheap plastic type material but it works a treat. I still think I need to spend some time flattening the sole again. I didn't spend enough time on it.. I bought a cheap Low angel block plane for 17 euros and it's a little belter. I'm going to get one of these planes here.. I don't mind a bit of work with my hand plane. I'm learning from the YT community all the time, and what u looked at in this video to do ur checks is very helpful advice for newbs like me anyways. Thanks very much bro.. I have one4 question.. What plane Irons would u say are the best to get that will hold their edge longer. I have to say that the Iron on my dirt cheap Rolson plane is holding its edge for ages and I've used it on a lotta different types and I even cleaned a load of hard epoxy resin from a table top and it still held that edge which I was shocked about. Oh sorry I have one more question if u have time. I need to put my main bevel on the plane and then the 2ndary bevel but which do u put on 1st? 25 or 30?? That messes with my head man..?? Thanks for this awesome video man. Keep up the great work. I went out to my shop at 02:30 this morning to do a bit of plaining. I love using them as much as I can..
Thank you and sorry to hear about the iron troubles! Good iron replacements are: Lake Erie - Magnacut Veritas - PMV11 Lie Nielsen - A2 In that order but the price kills the magnacut for me so I go veritas pmv11. Vintage planes sometimes need modified to fit moder irons so keep that in mind. For sharpening the irons - bevel down irons. I do 25* with a 30* micro. But... it doesn't really make a difference. I have a sharpening series 4 videos total that cover almost everything with sharpening so it may help you out! ruclips.net/video/hEmDA1al1p8/видео.htmlsi=MpcTMGvbMcBGNkCd
I own several Faithfulls, I find them to be very good planes if you take the time to fettle them first. Apart from the numbers, I have a full set. Regarding blades, sadly, because Faithfull, Spear and Jackson, and several others are all made by the same manufacturer, Sobah industries of India, and taking into account that these are budget planes, but not of the lowest quality, you will find they cut corners from time to time and heat treatment of irons tends to fall foul on occasion. The jagged edge your getting is not your fault, just replace the iron and all will be well, infacr, ebay can offer some very competitively priced irons so don't go over the top shelling out cash just yet. 👍
Thank you so much for the awesome video. while you were trying out the plane, you were planning on a workbench as well as the planer stop. Would you kindly let us know what workbench and plane stop were they. Also, is there a workbench that you recommend that's south of $700 which comes with most bells and whistles. Thank you again and we appreciate all you do sir.
Thank you, the plane stop is from Lee Valley and the bench is Rockler. But I do NOT reccomend the rockler bench unless you are going to spend more money to stabilize it with more lumber and work. Actually even then I don't because the vises are not good. I don't know any bench under $700 that would check all the boxes unless you build your own. That's what I should have done. For example this thing (bench and vises) rack really bad. And the top is only held on by 4 screws. I'm down to only 2 screws now and need to take it all apart to modify and fix it. While I'm at that I need to stabilize it. In the long run, it is better and cheeper to build your own.
@samla2404 this one looks pretty cool and it's on sale. www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-80-9-drawer-euro-style-butcher-block-workbench/t34091?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwko21BhAPEiwAwfaQCJrh9jfpJz0pZbAgdNYUObG-6KIiR9Uyy5q8Zf9O_Hi3iFNT4pRrshoCeRsQAvD_BwE
I bought the #5 Spear & Jackson plane. Still getting use to it and still tuning it, but i love it so far. Definitely will eventually get a new Iron for it..any recommendations?
There are 4 I like but have only tried 3 of them lol, Veritas pmv11, like nielsen a2, hock a2, or the new lake erie magnacut I haven't tried these irons in that plane tho and the plane or the irons may need slight modifications to fit right bur shouldn't be anything to crazy
Mahogany has twisted grains. Every a few years, grains reverse the twist direction. The majority of my bed is from mahogany, and planing it wasn’t fun for sure.
@@BatCaveCreations seems like I can’t post links. Maybe you will find my comment to be approved. I posted a link to Instagram and a link to Imgur of the bed I made.
The scrap with the finish on it? Yeah that's one of the mahogany-alikes for sure. I think it could be sapele. The alternating grain running up and down, that's called "ribbon stripe" which is also referred to as interlocking grain. IMO wood like this is the best training tool for someone new to hand planing because it forces you to up your game - as there's no good planing direction to finish plane it without unacceptable tearout you _have_ to have the cap iron fettled properly, have to have it set close (or you use a tight mouth, but that's less effective), and your sharpening has to be past a certainly level too. Or you just reach for the ROS 😁(I'm only half joking, because I literally know people who gave up and resorted to sanding)!
Thank you! Great point it does look like sapele or utily more than mahogany! That is a great point as well it would make an amazing training tool! I'm going to start including it in tests when I'm checking my users before diving into crazy grains and such. Thank you!!!
as for the rocking of the frog when it was disasembled all i will say is you must of forgotten that you had removed the screws because everything you stated with reguards to that was mute as a result.
I learned that after posting, this is one company that makes planes under different names. Rex also reviewed this style under India planes or something cus that's where they are made lol
The design of the frog is correct, not having the adjustment through threaded knob touch the frog at the OD is what I would do as a designer. Simply your adding cost by requiring the tolerance of the stud and the diameter of the knob to be very tight where in this one they can be loose. If this was a plane ten times the cost I would still have made this choice.
Thank you! Nothing against woodriver, just know Rob reccomends them so much because he is sponsored/gets money from them to promote their product. So keep that in mind when watching his reviews. He is not allowed to give a fair and honest review because he has to promote them. Again nothing against woodriver
Imo I would reccomend veritas over woodriver. It is a learning curve with the Norris style adjuster but they are around the same price range and I prefer veritas over woodriver
I am a fan of Veritas and in the process of buying a custom #4 and #5 1/2 Jack plane. I am not a fan of Chinese made planes. Bat Cave is correct in noting that WR is a line promoted by Cosman so he can’t speak ill of them. I have never had a WR but will never shell out for one at his price. Much of what he sells in my opinion is overpriced when compared to Lie Neilson or Veritas. On another topic, after seeing BC’s review of the Spear and Jackson, I purchased one and am completely happy with it. No one expects this plane to be of the quality of the planes manufactured by LN and Veritas. At this price, hand it down to someone when you are finished with it. Some tuning is required in order to have it perform.🇨🇦👍👨🦳
Hey have question you might be able to help me with I was sharping my Stanley #4 plane iron just spent ton of cash on a 3 micron diamond plate and I can’t for life of me find where I placed the screw for my iron and chip breaker looked for hours do you know where I could get any inexpensive screws that would fit after all that work sharpening then I’m ready to get back to work and I’m stalled cause I made bone headed mistake and lost it thank you enjoy your videos keep it up
@@BatCaveCreations I just submitted the form pending being accepted I’ve heard you mention the group in your videos before I’ve had my ups and downs with eBay before i will try the fb group appreciate it hopefully be able to find one on there thanks again
@geoff thompson no problem! You've been accepted in! Made sure you read the rules, we have auction starting today. And on Wednesdays there is a wishlist Wednesday post if you haven't found one by then post on there and someone will have one for you in sure!
@@What_Other_Hobbies oooh they do look really similar! It's funny I looked to see where this plane is made it says Sheffield but then as you keep looking it says India hahha
Finish deff comes up short but $28 :D It is made in India I learned that it's almost identical to the ones Rex reviewed didn't know that till after this haha I adjustability is a struggle with that big wheel and lateral isn't the best but $28 :D I'm excited about it for the price. Can you get a better one. 100%. But not for that price range :)
Had one of these. Took me all day to tune it up and flatten everything. The blade was bowed. The plane chatters and the adjustments barely work. Not worth it.
I was also bummed that all of the planing in this video was done sped up. Couldnt hear what the blade sounded like going through all the species which is a good way to tell how it cuts…
@@BatCaveCreationsI used 320 and 600 grit to remove the coating (varnish ?) and see that it has a minor hollow in the middle to back end. My gauge measurements indicate a variation of .002 to .003 gap under a Starett rule. Not sure if I should push for less on a $43. cdn plane from Amazon.
@@BatCaveCreationswhen you set the frog in place and screw it down , where are you setting the leading edge of the frog in relation to the opening in the sole. Some say set the leading edge in line with the back edge of the opining. What’s your opinion?
@richardc6932 I start there, line it up or maybe a 16th back and see how the plane reacts. Each one is a bid different but to close and the blade won't exit the mouth. To far back and the blade will rest on the back of the mouth and you do NOT want that. Find the sweet spot and once you get it ull be able to repeat it.
You don’t determine the flatness or the square of the sole of the plane without the frog, iron, chip and cap being installed and under use load tension. You didn’t show it, but you don’t flatten the casting of the plane unless it’s under tension either. (I will assume you did that but don’t show it or explain it) Was the cap flat across the contact points? Was the chip breaker? Those old style chip breakers can be a nightmare to flatten because they are so flexible or case hardened from the stamping process (like spring steel, very difficult to flatten) The knob and tote look like crap, I could feel the blisters just by looking at them. Sorry. But the biggest single most cancelling issue I saw was the frog adjuster! That integrated casting tab is going to snap off if one attempts to loosen the screw even under moderate tension from the bailey screws. I can’t see that lasting. At least a traditional style metal tab is replaceable. I could never recommend a plane like that for a beginner. It would just be frustrating and quickly be not used. Not to mention a No 4 is a poor choice for a general purpose for anyone but an adolescent perhaps. I am a smallish woman and while I have been working wood for over 50 years, my general recommendation is a No 5 for smaller people or a No 5-½ for larger people as a general purpose do everything plane. ( I could see using a No 62 bevel up as well for a first plane, a lot simpler design and easier to set up, but I just find them too light as a good general purpose do everything plane) While I own a No 4, it sees rare use. I use a No 7 for truing, a No 5 or 5-½ for most everything else and a No 3 for fine smoothing. I will use a 4-1/2 to spot smooth soft woods, but never the 4. Everyone is different, but I could never see a No 4 as being a first recommended hand plane. I would save another 150 dollars and get a quality plane that is more likely to be usable somewhat out of the box with only iron & chip inspection and flattening and sharpening being the critical steps to a quality lifetime plane...Besides that type of plane will also give you a bedrock style casting and frog, which is far superior to a bailey style plane. (You'll also get thicker quality irons and modern style chip breaker as well.) It was mentioned here below. A first plane should be that tool where you buy as much as you can afford for a quality tool. WIth this plane you are also going to need a surface plate $$$, Straight edge $$ or gauged shim stock $, machinists square $$, diamond plate $$ and sharpening stones $ just to get it working properly. So that $28 is illusory at best and frustratingly misleading at worst...
Read the reviews on this plane. In addition to it being a poorly made plane. they also have poor quality control. This is NOT a good plane to advise beginners to buy. Sure a person with a fair amount of experience fettling planes can get this working, but that is not what a beginner needs. Just my .2.
Yeah. I tried it for 30 bucks. Learned a lot about planes from the tool, but it's a piece of garbage now. At least now I know what a quality plane should look like after trying to fix this one. The wooden jack plane that a neighbor gave me did a better job. * LOTS of play in the depth setting, * Frog that didn't seat properly flat * Chip breaker slot for the depth adjuster was milled in the wrong place. It's impossible to get the Frog and Blade seated properly with the chip breaker to get either the blade resting properly on the frog face or control the mouth size by adjusting the frog. Blade always protrudes way to far even with everything dialed back. * Sole wasn't flat * cheeks weren't 90 to the sole * chip breaker wasn't remotely flat where it needed to be, shavings just wanted to lodge in there so bad. If you are starting out and don't have a ton of tools, don't cheap out on a jack plane.The resale value of the LN or Veritas is high enough that it's worth the cost even if you're only a hobbyist. Update: Turned the #5 S&J into a 'scrub plane' of sorts. Works decently enough for dimensioning stock. Bought a 5 1/2 LN used. The difference between the LN and the 30 dollar hand plane was ridiculous. Takes no time at all to dial in the LN and get exactly the thickness shavings I want, and it's extremely consistent even after setting it down & picking it up over the course of my work.
Frog is rocking, the iron is extremely thin, the chipbreaker is old style, the knob and the tote do not fit, paint all over. This is a plane for a RUclipsr to show that it is possible to create a tool that is usable somehow out of a bunch of garbage. This is not a beginners plane! How do I know. I bought a piece of sh… from a big box store. Put it aside pretty soon and didn‘t touch it for a long time because I wasn‘t able to make it work. I bought a 62 and a 4 from the sweetheart Stanley planes and was pretty happy with them. Then I saw this video from Paul Sellers how to convert a no 4 Stanley into a scrub plane. So this piece of crap came to life again. Again this cheep thing is definitely not a beginners plane.
Thank you for sharing your review of this hand plane. These have been around for about 200 years. Very good hand plane.
Awesome. I’m working on a woodworking course for kids and having useable and affordable handplanes has been a struggle.
Very true! If you have time to put work into them you may be able to snag some vintage for cheep but idk if they would be cheeper than this and it may still need a little tweeking but mine was awesome.
I bought an S&J just to try, I fettled it and it worked well so I gave it to my son-in-law. Theyre the same as Faithfulls, my weapon of choice, the only real difference being the handles on the finish of Faithfull planes, leaves a lot to be desired, theyre just pretty rough. But if you have the time, with a few small machinist files, they can be made to fit your hand perfectly.
That is awesome! Thank you for sharing!
When I started getting into hand tool woodworking I was like you, watching RUclips videos. At that time I was watching Paul Sellers, Rob Cosman and Samurai Carpenter among other people. Rob Cosman has always said that you should buy the best you can afford of any tool, which is understandable because better tools produce better results. But I followed Paul Sellers advice and got a Stanley no.5 at a flea market for $20 mainly because I couldn't afford the higher priced premium planes and if I decided that I didn't like it as much as I thought, I wasn't out a boat load of money.
I also had to do some tuning to get the plane to work well.
Good advice for new woodworkers.
100% agree. Good snag on the stanley no 5 for 20!
High end planes go hold their value so if someone buys it and ends up not liking woodworking they can deff resell and recoup alot on it.
Thank you for commenting! Good stuff for ppl to see!
The purchase was several years ago so at the time I guess a fair price
ah good point, they have gone up since covid lol
Very cool ! I'm glad to have come across your video as I just bought this plane along with the number 5 and the block plane. I did not want to spend big bucks on something that I was not sure how much I would use it, but I'm a little more excited about the purchase now after watching the video. Well done, many thanks !
Great!! I'm happy to hear that! I still have this plane and like it alot!
Why would you accept a damaged item? Amazon is very good about returns too.
Interesting hand plane.
Good review, good find!
Just found your channel and am enjoying your content....thank-you. I am gradually moving away from floor standing power tools and closer and closer toward hand tool wood working (less dust, noise, expense, space consuming while being safer, more portable (easier to work outside), and apartment friendly). I haven't invested in a quality plane yet, but I have been shopping. I have a small block plane now and have considered getting a #4 or #5. I never heard of S&J until this video. I checked today and the price for the #4 or #5 is about $36 on Amazon and free Prime shipping. Thanks again for the videos.
I am glad you found the channel! We have fun here and are a little crazy hahah
Dang, stinks that went up in price, make sure you check for quality control issues but I have heard a lot of good things from other people about this plane! Thank you!!
I’ve got one of those too. The same planes are made by faithful. I have the faithful no. 7 jointer and the spear and Jackson no.4 and I’m ordering the spear and Jackson no.3 and no.5 soon for how good the planes are
Yes they are! I was surprised!
You know, I have needed to sharpen my Veritas planes. So, while they may be flat, they aren't use out of the box effectively. But at least they are flat and don't need adjusting! Finish is great.
I'd honestly rather have high carbon steel than some modern steels like A2. High carbon steels get nice keener edges. I like sharpening, so I don't mind having to sharpen back to a thin keen edge.
Hearing your excitement in a chipmunk voice is delightful.
Shhh I do to! I wither want 01 ot pmv 11. Haven't tried the new lake erie yet tho haha
Haha I love that part too! Thank you!
Great content! I just found your channel this week and subbed after your series on the Lowe’s Jorgensen planes. I agree about balancing value of tools with amount of performance we can get out of them for the effort required to fettle them into shape. I’d love to have a whole set of LN, Veritas, Clifton, or Woodriver tools, but my mortgage is due and family would appreciate eating this month. I’ve learned so much more from having to do some fettling over the last year and a half of my woodworking journey with midrange affordable tools than I would have if I’d gone with premium. Channels like yours, Wood by Wright, Paul Sellers, and Rex Krueger have been a godsend. I like Rob Cosman too, but we’re just coming at this from different philosophies and places in life imo. Thanks for putting all of this out there.
I love this! Thank you!
Yes I would love a full set of every brand so I could look and say hm.. I wanna use a clifton today or maybe a Veritas but... ur right food is needed ahah
Also a great point about learning more because you got a midrange plane! Deff helps you to learn and see how a plane works. Overall increasing your knowledge of the tool!
Thank you for sharing and subbing!!!
Hey again, glad you found these! Great summary in the outto so people know to be realistic about what they might get 👍
You mentioned Rex, he does know about these already. I was 99% sure they got a plug in the comments so I checked and they were. But more than that there's a video on YT from a viewer showing the S&J plane he was going to send to Rex for evaluation. That was three years ago (man, time flies!) so I don't know why there hasn't been a follow-on video that specifically mentions the brand..... maybe because of the quality control/variability?
Anyway, FWIW I'm convinced these are made in the same factory that Faithfull _used_ to use, because they look so much like the Faithfull planes from the time I got mine, including the handle wood and the overthick finish on them hehe. I think that wood is East Indian rosewood BTW, and your plane did have a particularly nice set; it can be a lot more yellowish, which i don't care for much (although it can be stained of course).
Great point in QC! That is a big concern. I'm surprised red got one and didn't do a video on it. I was hoping to hear he did one and had the same results haha but him and I differ on the Jorggy tho I think he got an early model. Their QC isn't the best either. Haha
It is deff made in India didn't realize that till someone commented about them being the same as the India ones Rex reviewed. It kinda does look like rosewood but deff didn't wanna say that within being on a $28 plane. I'd get yelled at in the comments hahah
I remember that series of videos too when Rex Krueger was doing a summer series of testing mid-range affordable planes along with some cheap ones on Amazon. This was one of several brands that all came from Sobha (sp?) in India that included Grizzly, Faithful, S & J, and a couple of others. There was even a higher premium line of ductile cast iron for TayTools. The bench dogs were suspected to be part of that too in some videos I saw that I can’t find anymore. I’ve been very happy with my Grizzly planes and one Faithful no 6 as a novice woodworker. There have been a couple QC issues for me that I had to either learn to fettle out or send back to exchange (looking at you Faithful with your international shipping to exchange defective plane irons). Overall though, they have all been great to start woodworking. I’m sure Rob Cosman would find them unacceptable for his experience and high standards, but these are made to actually work for a good price point compared to the harbor freight and amazon basic versions in the world.
@Patrick Howie yes! Exactly! I am learning too. A lot of these brands are actually made in the same factory, just sold under different names hahah 😅
Always remember too, Rob teaches good stuff, but I'll never watch one of his reviews because he is paid by one of the companies, so he does not give unbiased opinions and advice. WR is not top of the line. Do they make good quality, yes, but from experience, they are outshines by veritas and LN in many areas. You can see this by Rob making videos and products to modify WR planes, if they are THAT good, why do they need modified? 🤔 hahah
@@BatCaveCreations That's one good reason to avoid Cosman reviews for sure, but there's something about his manner that I've never taken to and very early on I was put off watching him ever again by some dogmatic pronouncement he made in a sharpening video and I haven't watched one since..... so that's going on about six years now hehe.
@@tungsten_carbide lol i get you 100% i rarely watch his videos. and if i do i watch others as well to get more opinions!
I bought a Faithful Hand plane finishing plane? It's a really nice looking plane but the IRON IS BREAKING ON THE TIP OF THE BEVEL. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong with this blade bcos I sharpened my other smoothing plane and it was great. I've been getting great shavings from my 20 euros planes from ROLSON or something like that. The handles are cheap plastic type material but it works a treat. I still think I need to spend some time flattening the sole again. I didn't spend enough time on it.. I bought a cheap Low angel block plane for 17 euros and it's a little belter. I'm going to get one of these planes here..
I don't mind a bit of work with my hand plane. I'm learning from the YT community all the time, and what u looked at in this video to do ur checks is very helpful advice for newbs like me anyways. Thanks very much bro..
I have one4 question.. What plane Irons would u say are the best to get that will hold their edge longer. I have to say that the Iron on my dirt cheap Rolson plane is holding its edge for ages and I've used it on a lotta different types and I even cleaned a load of hard epoxy resin from a table top and it still held that edge which I was shocked about.
Oh sorry I have one more question if u have time. I need to put my main bevel on the plane and then the 2ndary bevel but which do u put on 1st? 25 or 30?? That messes with my head man..?? Thanks for this awesome video man. Keep up the great work. I went out to my shop at 02:30 this morning to do a bit of plaining. I love using them as much as I can..
Thank you and sorry to hear about the iron troubles!
Good iron replacements are:
Lake Erie - Magnacut
Veritas - PMV11
Lie Nielsen - A2
In that order but the price kills the magnacut for me so I go veritas pmv11. Vintage planes sometimes need modified to fit moder irons so keep that in mind.
For sharpening the irons - bevel down irons. I do 25* with a 30* micro. But... it doesn't really make a difference.
I have a sharpening series 4 videos total that cover almost everything with sharpening so it may help you out! ruclips.net/video/hEmDA1al1p8/видео.htmlsi=MpcTMGvbMcBGNkCd
I own several Faithfulls, I find them to be very good planes if you take the time to fettle them first. Apart from the numbers, I have a full set. Regarding blades, sadly, because Faithfull, Spear and Jackson, and several others are all made by the same manufacturer, Sobah industries of India, and taking into account that these are budget planes, but not of the lowest quality, you will find they cut corners from time to time and heat treatment of irons tends to fall foul on occasion. The jagged edge your getting is not your fault, just replace the iron and all will be well, infacr, ebay can offer some very competitively priced irons so don't go over the top shelling out cash just yet. 👍
Thank you so much for the awesome video. while you were trying out the plane, you were planning on a workbench as well as the planer stop. Would you kindly let us know what workbench and plane stop were they. Also, is there a workbench that you recommend that's south of $700 which comes with most bells and whistles. Thank you again and we appreciate all you do sir.
Thank you, the plane stop is from Lee Valley and the bench is Rockler. But I do NOT reccomend the rockler bench unless you are going to spend more money to stabilize it with more lumber and work. Actually even then I don't because the vises are not good.
I don't know any bench under $700 that would check all the boxes unless you build your own. That's what I should have done. For example this thing (bench and vises) rack really bad. And the top is only held on by 4 screws. I'm down to only 2 screws now and need to take it all apart to modify and fix it. While I'm at that I need to stabilize it. In the long run, it is better and cheeper to build your own.
@@BatCaveCreations thank you for the feedback sir. If you would to recommend one workbench, which one will it be around $1000 ish. Thanks again
@samla2404 this one looks pretty cool and it's on sale. www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-80-9-drawer-euro-style-butcher-block-workbench/t34091?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwko21BhAPEiwAwfaQCJrh9jfpJz0pZbAgdNYUObG-6KIiR9Uyy5q8Zf9O_Hi3iFNT4pRrshoCeRsQAvD_BwE
I bought the #5 Spear & Jackson plane. Still getting use to it and still tuning it, but i love it so far. Definitely will eventually get a new Iron for it..any recommendations?
There are 4 I like but have only tried 3 of them lol, Veritas pmv11, like nielsen a2, hock a2, or the new lake erie magnacut
I haven't tried these irons in that plane tho and the plane or the irons may need slight modifications to fit right bur shouldn't be anything to crazy
Wow thanks man! You were very big help.
@@rossanctuary5238 anytime! Happy to help!
Would love to try the wax out if it had some type of glue stick screw mechanism.
I need to just leave it outta the can haha it doesn't have to be stores or sealed I'm just ocd with stuff like that haha
Mahogany has twisted grains. Every a few years, grains reverse the twist direction. The majority of my bed is from mahogany, and planing it wasn’t fun for sure.
Ooh I didn't know that was actually a thing haha I assumed but I'm glad it's real and I'm not crazy hahah
That bed has to be beautiful!!
@@BatCaveCreations seems like I can’t post links. Maybe you will find my comment to be approved. I posted a link to Instagram and a link to Imgur of the bed I made.
I literally just planed mahogany boards down to a 1/4 inch and yeah, it was tough lol.
Hm I check and it doesn't say anything is pending :( what's your IG?
Haha yes it is!! Do you have a high angle iron or frog?
The scrap with the finish on it? Yeah that's one of the mahogany-alikes for sure. I think it could be sapele.
The alternating grain running up and down, that's called "ribbon stripe" which is also referred to as interlocking grain. IMO wood like this is the best training tool for someone new to hand planing because it forces you to up your game - as there's no good planing direction to finish plane it without unacceptable tearout you _have_ to have the cap iron fettled properly, have to have it set close (or you use a tight mouth, but that's less effective), and your sharpening has to be past a certainly level too.
Or you just reach for the ROS 😁(I'm only half joking, because I literally know people who gave up and resorted to sanding)!
Thank you! Great point it does look like sapele or utily more than mahogany!
That is a great point as well it would make an amazing training tool! I'm going to start including it in tests when I'm checking my users before diving into crazy grains and such. Thank you!!!
SOMEONE TELL REX NOW!!!! Lol
He already knows, did a review of planes made in India 3 years ago and lists this as on of them.
@@tracychriss5645 watching his video now lol
Suspiciously similar looking to newer Irwin production of Record Planes ;)
Ya since posting I learned that there is a plant in India that makes these and just stamps different companies on them hahah
as for the rocking of the frog when it was disasembled all i will say is you must of forgotten that you had removed the screws because everything you stated with reguards to that was mute as a result.
Even without the screws it shouldn't rock. It should sit flat
From this review, it seems that it has the same build quality as a GROZ handpland, with the only difference being the lever cap.
I learned that after posting, this is one company that makes planes under different names. Rex also reviewed this style under India planes or something cus that's where they are made lol
The design of the frog is correct, not having the adjustment through threaded knob touch the frog at the OD is what I would do as a designer. Simply your adding cost by requiring the tolerance of the stud and the diameter of the knob to be very tight where in this one they can be loose. If this was a plane ten times the cost I would still have made this choice.
Thank you! This is great info!!!
Great videos. I see you dont mention too much the woodriver benchplanes that rob cosman recomends so much
Thank you! Nothing against woodriver, just know Rob reccomends them so much because he is sponsored/gets money from them to promote their product. So keep that in mind when watching his reviews. He is not allowed to give a fair and honest review because he has to promote them. Again nothing against woodriver
@@BatCaveCreations thanks for the response, I have never tried them, but have read mixed things about them
Imo I would reccomend veritas over woodriver. It is a learning curve with the Norris style adjuster but they are around the same price range and I prefer veritas over woodriver
I am a fan of Veritas and in the process of buying a custom #4 and #5 1/2 Jack plane. I am not a fan of Chinese made planes. Bat Cave is correct in noting that WR is a line promoted by Cosman so he can’t speak ill of them. I have never had a WR but will never shell out for one at his price. Much of what he sells in my opinion is overpriced when compared to Lie Neilson or Veritas. On another topic, after seeing BC’s review of the Spear and Jackson, I purchased one and am completely happy with it. No one expects this plane to be of the quality of the planes manufactured by LN and Veritas. At this price, hand it down to someone when you are finished with it. Some tuning is required in order to have it perform.🇨🇦👍👨🦳
Hey have question you might be able to help me with I was sharping my Stanley #4 plane iron just spent ton of cash on a 3 micron diamond plate and I can’t for life of me find where I placed the screw for my iron and chip breaker looked for hours do you know where I could get any inexpensive screws that would fit after all that work sharpening then I’m ready to get back to work and I’m stalled cause I made bone headed mistake and lost it thank you enjoy your videos keep it up
Hey! I've done that before too lol
Are you in the Can I Have It FB group?
If not you can check ebay for a chip breaker screw
@@BatCaveCreations I just submitted the form pending being accepted I’ve heard you mention the group in your videos before I’ve had my ups and downs with eBay before i will try the fb group appreciate it hopefully be able to find one on there thanks again
@geoff thompson no problem! You've been accepted in! Made sure you read the rules, we have auction starting today. And on Wednesdays there is a wishlist Wednesday post if you haven't found one by then post on there and someone will have one for you in sure!
@@BatCaveCreations awesome again thank you and keep with videos definitely enjoy watching em
Well, that is a surprise.
RIGHT!!!! I'm blown away by this plane!
@@BatCaveCreations looks like the made in India planes Rex reviewed.
ruclips.net/video/vSnKkSDb8aw/видео.html
@@What_Other_Hobbies oooh they do look really similar! It's funny I looked to see where this plane is made it says Sheffield but then as you keep looking it says India hahha
Looks like my Indian made "Groz". Solid plane, but very little adjustability and fit and finish comes up short.
Finish deff comes up short but $28 :D
It is made in India I learned that it's almost identical to the ones Rex reviewed didn't know that till after this haha
I adjustability is a struggle with that big wheel and lateral isn't the best but $28 :D I'm excited about it for the price. Can you get a better one. 100%. But not for that price range :)
@@BatCaveCreations I use it as a scrub plane, perfect for that
@@anthonyseiver7000 that works to!
If you really need to close the throat that bad just turn the front end into and infill plane haha
Had one of these. Took me all day to tune it up and flatten everything. The blade was bowed. The plane chatters and the adjustments barely work. Not worth it.
You def should have returned it and got a different one cus mine arrived almost perfect besides the shipping damage haha
I was also bummed that all of the planing in this video was done sped up. Couldnt hear what the blade sounded like going through all the species which is a good way to tell how it cuts…
@@BatCaveCreationsI used 320 and 600 grit to remove the coating (varnish ?) and see that it has a minor hollow in the middle to back end. My gauge measurements indicate a variation of .002 to .003 gap under a Starett rule. Not sure if I should push for less on a $43. cdn plane from Amazon.
@@BatCaveCreationswhen you set the frog in place and screw it down , where are you setting the leading edge of the frog in relation to the opening in the sole. Some say set the leading edge in line with the back edge of the opining. What’s your opinion?
@richardc6932 I start there, line it up or maybe a 16th back and see how the plane reacts. Each one is a bid different but to close and the blade won't exit the mouth. To far back and the blade will rest on the back of the mouth and you do NOT want that. Find the sweet spot and once you get it ull be able to repeat it.
A genuine bargain!i you might have found a unicorn.
Right!!! This plane is awesome! Highly impressed!
I don't know why your laughing!
You don’t determine the flatness or the square of the sole of the plane without the frog, iron, chip and cap being installed and under use load tension. You didn’t show it, but you don’t flatten the casting of the plane unless it’s under tension either. (I will assume you did that but don’t show it or explain it)
Was the cap flat across the contact points? Was the chip breaker? Those old style chip breakers can be a nightmare to flatten because they are so flexible or case hardened from the stamping process (like spring steel, very difficult to flatten)
The knob and tote look like crap, I could feel the blisters just by looking at them. Sorry.
But the biggest single most cancelling issue I saw was the frog adjuster! That integrated casting tab is going to snap off if one attempts to loosen the screw even under moderate tension from the bailey screws. I can’t see that lasting. At least a traditional style metal tab is replaceable.
I could never recommend a plane like that for a beginner. It would just be frustrating and quickly be not used.
Not to mention a No 4 is a poor choice for a general purpose for anyone but an adolescent perhaps.
I am a smallish woman and while I have been working wood for over 50 years, my general recommendation is a No 5 for smaller people or a No 5-½ for larger people as a general purpose do everything plane. ( I could see using a No 62 bevel up as well for a first plane, a lot simpler design and easier to set up, but I just find them too light as a good general purpose do everything plane) While I own a No 4, it sees rare use. I use a No 7 for truing, a No 5 or 5-½ for most everything else and a No 3 for fine smoothing. I will use a 4-1/2 to spot smooth soft woods, but never the 4. Everyone is different, but I could never see a No 4 as being a first recommended hand plane. I would save another 150 dollars and get a quality plane that is more likely to be usable somewhat out of the box with only iron & chip inspection and flattening and sharpening being the critical steps to a quality lifetime plane...Besides that type of plane will also give you a bedrock style casting and frog, which is far superior to a bailey style plane. (You'll also get thicker quality irons and modern style chip breaker as well.) It was mentioned here below. A first plane should be that tool where you buy as much as you can afford for a quality tool.
WIth this plane you are also going to need a surface plate $$$, Straight edge $$ or gauged shim stock $, machinists square $$, diamond plate $$ and sharpening stones $ just to get it working properly. So that $28 is illusory at best and frustratingly misleading at worst...
Read the reviews on this plane. In addition to it being a poorly made plane. they also have poor quality control. This is NOT a good plane to advise beginners to buy. Sure a person with a fair amount of experience fettling planes can get this working, but that is not what a beginner needs. Just my .2.
Yeah. I tried it for 30 bucks. Learned a lot about planes from the tool, but it's a piece of garbage now. At least now I know what a quality plane should look like after trying to fix this one. The wooden jack plane that a neighbor gave me did a better job.
* LOTS of play in the depth setting,
* Frog that didn't seat properly flat
* Chip breaker slot for the depth adjuster was milled in the wrong place. It's impossible to get the Frog and Blade seated properly with the chip breaker to get either the blade resting properly on the frog face or control the mouth size by adjusting the frog. Blade always protrudes way to far even with everything dialed back.
* Sole wasn't flat
* cheeks weren't 90 to the sole
* chip breaker wasn't remotely flat where it needed to be, shavings just wanted to lodge in there so bad.
If you are starting out and don't have a ton of tools, don't cheap out on a jack plane.The resale value of the LN or Veritas is high enough that it's worth the cost even if you're only a hobbyist.
Update: Turned the #5 S&J into a 'scrub plane' of sorts. Works decently enough for dimensioning stock. Bought a 5 1/2 LN used. The difference between the LN and the 30 dollar hand plane was ridiculous. Takes no time at all to dial in the LN and get exactly the thickness shavings I want, and it's extremely consistent even after setting it down & picking it up over the course of my work.
Frog is rocking, the iron is extremely thin, the chipbreaker is old style, the knob and the tote do not fit, paint all over. This is a plane for a RUclipsr to show that it is possible to create a tool that is usable somehow out of a bunch of garbage. This is not a beginners plane! How do I know. I bought a piece of sh… from a big box store. Put it aside pretty soon and didn‘t touch it for a long time because I wasn‘t able to make it work.
I bought a 62 and a 4 from the sweetheart Stanley planes and was pretty happy with them. Then I saw this video from Paul Sellers how to convert a no 4 Stanley into a scrub plane. So this piece of crap came to life again.
Again this cheep thing is definitely not a beginners plane.
Sounds like you got a bad one, they do have QC issues like I mentioned. A few said they exchanged it and got a good one the 2nd time
Biggest mouth I have ever seen on a smoother.
Have you seen the harbor freight? Hahaha