A First Look At Manjaro Sway Edition
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- Опубликовано: 21 авг 2024
- I'm going to do a quick installation and first look at Manjaro Sway Edition. This is an unofficial community spin of Manjaro that features Wayland and the Sway compositor/window manager. Sway is a clone of i3 but designed to work with Wayland rather than X11.
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► github.com/Man... - Manjaro Sway
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The error messages are an environment missconfiguration of the distro and don't have anything to do with wayland/sway
@@tucuxir Either that or just install the missing library
Manjaro is known to be a dumpster fire.
@@robbyoconnor its only good for being arch but installed with calamares. even then arco does the job better.
that was just a borked image of an alpha stage distribution. if he would have reached out, we could have clarified that in seconds.
It try to load a missing library, due to LD_PRELOAD environment variable or /etc/ld.so.preload.
A few corrections: Wayland is display server protocol rather than actual server, and Wayland compositors implement Wayland, not operate on top of it.
agree on this. Wayland is itself the display server protocol and the compositor. theyre one and the same
Thats not accurate and not what Aleri is saying. Wayland is the protocol. Wayland ships with a reference compositor called Westen. Wayland by itself is just the name for the interface or a set of methods. Westen is intended to be replaced by many community compositors.
@@wiilillad i see. thanks for the correction.
@@wiilillad Weston
Some are alpha quality, some are not. E.G Mutter for wayland is not, KWIN for wayland however is, but it goes to get stables.
Manjaro Sway seems to be just under a month old which might be why it's not an official community release of manjaro yet
the guy who made it released the first build in December, so yes
that was just a borked image of an alpha stage distribution. if he would have reached out, we could have clarified that in seconds.
I've always considered dt to be an intelligent person/presenter, so it was a bit jarring to watch him complain about the shell errors without taking the short 3 seconds to just read the message and easily comprehend that the (obviously beta-quality) installer had failed to install a simple library. He referred to "all these errors", when the it was simply the same single error each time.
It's a dishonest criticism of swaywm, it seems that he didn't read any type of documentation before recording the video. I was expecting him to do a clean install on either a virtual or physical machine and seeing how the setup process was in relation to i3wm.
the hack fix for your error would be to remove these packages `libgtk3-nocsd0` `gtk3-nocsd `
DT, Wayland is not a display server, as others have pointed out here in the comments, it is a protocol. Sway is more than just a window manager, it is also a compositor, the new term for a display server. So Sway is equilvalent to xorg. Wayland offers flexibility in development, but this flexibility can pose problems when standardization is needed. So the sway team built a library called wlroots. Wlroots endeavors to standardize functions you would expect in a display server. There are already other "compositor/window managers" that are taking advantage of wlroots.
Yes this is a new way of thinking, and somewhat disruptive to the distro industry. However, there are people willing to give it a try, and those that do are rewarded with a better "display server." Adoption is still an issue, but with the advent of gtk3, that issue is not yuge.
how's that right to travel working out for ya
DT: Wayland is alpha quality software!
GNOME: Hold my beer.
Sway version is still a work in progress thats why its not on manjaro site
I have had zero issues with my Sway on Arch setup (going on 6 months now). I think you definitely picked the wrong distro to evaluate it on. That Manjaro spin is what's "alpha quality".
Including screen recording with ffmpeg?
@@JohnDoe-bm5lp Didn't think it necessary, but "zero issues in my particular use case" if that helps.
manjaro is just a bad distro period. it holds updates on a rolling release back a week, pamac has ddosed the aur before, and its based on a rolling release, which is stupid
@@anshmaru699 what is wrong with rolling release?
@@anshmaru699 nothing wrong with a rolling release, but yeah, please use EndeavourOS instead.
I am on manjaro with Wayland and Sway for over a year now. Wayland with Sway is very much ready. DT you should dive a little bit in it to become a little more familiar with it, because it works a little differently from X11. But as of today most of everyday programs that I have used on X are or ported to wayland or have an equivalent alternative that is native to Wayland. And as an owner of laptop and 2 HiDPI monitors with different resolutions, Wayland is the only solution to use all 3 displays properly with full supported resolution, fractional scailing and without artifacts and tearing.
2:21 My mind screamed "NO" so hard
Even worse, he used QXL instead of VirtIO as the virtual graphics card.
@@user-tm3fz7qx3s ouch
17:41 pretty sure you're missing "base-devel" package
packages* , "base-devil" is a group for packages
and specific missing is "binutils" required for /usr/bin/strip
but the error message is confusing that strip is not in quotes
Manjaro Sway was one of the official community editions available to the ARM64 cpu on RPi4.
@James Aaron Erang What you consider "bloated" is extremely subjective, but assuming it's similar to Manjaro i3, it's pretty minimal.
Im trying using it as my main distro... The mantainer seems cool. But raspibian with novaspirit i3 tutorial keep working for me
I'm now running (and I think I've settled with) Manjaro minimal (no desktop) as a NAS server with my rpi4 8G. As much as I love Manjaro one settled for endeavour OS with I3 on my working machine although if customized the hell out of it so it's pretty much a custom arch. I also run a manjaro server on an old desktop for controlling my 3d printer. I feel that with Arch and Docker anything is possible! After much distro hopping I just can't keep away from Arch and the aur
After discovering how reliable wayland is with hot-plugging thunderbolt docks and monitors; I won't install xorg on a laptop. Xorg is fine on a desktop where i'm not hot-plugging anything but for laptops, xorg is just a big no, no.
I wish I could do that, but Nvidia says "no" because Prime offloading doesn't work on wayland.
@@hermannpaschulke1583 Ah fair, I've also avoided dual gpu machines for a while, my last experience with it was terrible (intel and radeon laptop), does it work okay with xorg these days?
@@stefankyriacou7151 Yeah, I have no problems at all. I can simple launch programs with `prime-run` and they will use the Nvidia GPU
Dmenu doesn't work really good on Wayland, sway has a workaround for that though, in the package config file, not the distribution one. There are some replacements, there's wofi and bmenu.
why does everything in foss have some retarded name, and a bunch of derivatives with worse names?
@@KatzRool
1. As the software is free it needs *a name* to spread through Popularity and Support.
2. The people msking said code is usually not from a marketing department, they're just kind people choosing to either improve or entirely create new free spftware for people.
3. Forking a repository influences making a derivative of the name of the previously renowned application that now sees a fork either to improve on the original or to niche it for a particular purpose.
@@dotmavriq rhetorical question mate
Lul. Suckless guys can't even maintain 2000 lines of code properly
@@KatzRool as the wofi dev I take offense...no no I really don't LOL. Name was literally just wayland + rofi, was more concerned with writing code.
im actually writing a Wayland compositor for school in Haskell. its a big undertaking but i want to try
Are you writing it to be showcased in your high school?🐱🏍
you will never be a woman
@@zvezdan956 you will never be a man
I've been using Gnome Wayland exclusively on my laptop for nearly a year now and it's great. XWayland takes care of anything that hasn't been ported to Wayland yet pretty well, such as Zoom.
Just want to comment that I really appreciate all your videos. After many, many years of not fooling around with Linux I followed your Arch Linux install video, how to install a desktop environment video, and installing KVM videos and have a renewed passion for learning as much as my time allows. So, thanks for all the work you put into these videos!
nowdays basically everything (except gaming, which sometimes needs xwayland) works pretty much out of the box with wayland/sway. Some env variables & options (e.g. for firefox etc) and away it is with x11
Screen Sharing from chromium browsers doesnt work at all for me.
Finally video on sway
i use sway as my daily driver
i don't even know why I watched this literally all of it went over my head 😂🤣
Many of the linux-math-techfix channels I like to watch goes over my head. The important thing is that you challenge yourself.
"speak funny words to me, magic man"
Update: Manjaro Sway is now an official community edition on Manjaro's site
How stable is it now? Cause it gets dayly releases, i dont know if lts kernels and timeshift could make it more stable
The issue with dmenu is that it is running under xwayland and can become unresponsive if the cursor moves to a native wayland window, this is covered in detail in the Arch wiki. I find that bemenu is a great wayland native dmenu replacement. Bemenu also works with X11.
I've been using sway on Arch on both my laptops for quite a while now and am really happy with it. It's very similar to i3, but not as laggy, at least in my experience. I'm not sure running an experimental edition of Manjaro in a VM does sway much justice, but at least you did issue a disclaimer ahead of time.
Wayland may be alpha software, but IWFMYMMV. Also, vim is not supposed to be installed by default, way too big. Vi should always be installed, along with the ever excellent ed of course. I'm saying this as an emacs user.
"the Wayland display server", "Window manager that runs on top of wayland" THIS IS NOT HOW IT WORKS
Wayland is just a protocol, like X11 or TCP/IP.
Common Wayland compositors like KWin and Mutter only lack few features to be replacements for X11.
- Global Hotkeys (it's possible to workaround this by using d-bus if the application supports this and it would be safer)
- ScreenCast (works by using the safe interfaces that pipewire and xdg-desktop-portals provide but somehow OBS and others don't want to use....)
- Advanced remote desktop support (there is support for remote desktop but it's not as fleshed out because application developers seem to think that wayland doesn't provide the necessary features [but xdg-desktop-portals do, even on X11], it's more of a communication problem really)
If nobody uses Wayland it's never going to be ready, it's Free Software after all!
the bigger problem here is gnome(mutter) has its own wayland implementation and kde(kwin) has its own implementation, and then the rest of the community is working on wl-roots, wayland would have been alot better if everyone worked on a standard wayland compositor.
I guess my name is nobody then, because I run sway exclusively, which means in turn uses wayland.
@@basedfacistman that's not an issue. everyone should be able to work on their own thing.
@@bigpod pipewire is already used for screensharing and no it isn't an audio server.
@@bigpod if you can't use it don't force it but if you can go for it.
I appreciate your perspective on this Derek. Thats my son's name by the way. I have not done a video in forever. I have learned A LOT by watching you and a couple of other Linux youtubers.
I have watched you for some time and respect your input, Until this! I have been running sway for quite some time and yes the version you chose was buggy. My issue is it seemed like you were bullied into doing this and didn't want to do it. Something new needs preparation and you can't just jump into it expecting to know whats going on. This is a whole different experience. For example - xrander is not to be used use. Right in the config document is "You can get the names of your outputs by running: swaymsg -t get_outputs". Sorry for your troubles on this. It is a lot more advanced than you are giving it credit. I will continue to watch as I still respect your input.
Great video!!! I do not want to be disrespectful, but you can clear the console with the combination of the keys "ctrl + l" instead of the "clear" command
I use sway on my Arch Linux system and I haven't had any issues with it. Running it for like 3-4 months. The Manjaro version's problems were Manjaro's fault, not sway's.
Hey DT! Can you take a look at penrose? It’s a wm programmed in rust. It is pretty basic right now but it looks really promising.
Tried to install a couple of months ago and couldn't get it installed. So maybe I will look at it at some point, once it works.
@@DistroTube Maybe it’s best then to wait for a more stable release
Cool Video As Always DT!
X11 makes my screen tear itself while Wayland does not.
DT, if you're making a first look or anything similar, you have to go and read the manuals and other relevant introductory material. You cannot just go out there clueless as of how the thing works, mess it up and than say it's alpha quality. You are making a huge disservice to your audience and linux community in general. Since you have such a massive (by linux standards) following and you're doing your reviews professionally, you must do you homework.
I use manjaro sway on pinephone since I want a tiling wm and wayland runs much faster than x11 on pinephone (because of driver support)
Wayland always makes me think of Weyland-Yutani 🤣
Same
Hi, thanks a lot for the video (and all the others). Can you explain a little bit more (maybe in a separate video) in depth why you consider Wayland still in the alpha phase and where it needs to catch up with X11? This sounds as at if it's buggy which in my experience is not the case.
As you say, some components which require X11 don't work but for most you will find Wayland based alternatives. I simply think when you want to leave X11 behind, as it's simply from a totally different era where computers worked totally different, you have to switch at some point in time.
Hey DT thank you so much for this video. You gave me some solutions for other problems this time.
Whenever derek installs a distro I have deja vu
Holy shit, you'd make a very stereotypical Billionaire:
"I've got a Threadripper, I'm gonna give it 2 threads". PMSL.
If only it had dynamic tiling
LOL, thought I was driving the VM.
That error is because you're missing the gtk-nocsd package
If I want to ask a question to be answered in the _Hey DT_ videos, should I just tag your nametag on Mastodon with the question, or should I send it via a DM instead?
Send it via DM. Easier for me to see it that way..
@@DistroTube Thanks!
Hi DT
Manjaro Sway was very new at the time so it was not an official community addition just a preview but now it is actually official and if you look for it again it will show up in the DD menu.
I have been using Sway for quiet some time now on Debian testing, Bullseye, (now Bullseye is becoming Stable and I do not wish to stay). I have been looking into switching to since Sway is still in early stages of development and there is a lot to gain from frequent updates. However, Arch is just too bleeding edge for me and do not wish to constantly have to deal with maintenance and repair. So I thought of moving to Manjaro Sway.
I really you made this video after this edition became of official so you would have had a better experience though I appreciate the effort you put in making the video.
You make awesome videos and I learnt from you.
Love your channel!
AIJ
Hi! This review is super unfair. You picked a random nightly build that loaded a very old and broken version of the manjaro-sway-settings that were worse than the initial build I made. The initial and much more working build has been reviewed here: ruclips.net/video/34DIO61GxAE/видео.html
But that aside: While I use a more current version as a daily driver without major problems, this is clearly an alpha version. Blaming anything on the wayland protocol or the sway window manager or the manjaro repos is unfair - from my experience the only buggy thing is which & how I did put software on top of it.
The thing I don't like about manjaro is that it is segregated from other arch-based because it doesn't use the same repo as official arch or garuda does. So I would never be able to turn a manjaro back into an archlinux or everything will fall apart.
Wayland, brought to you by the makers of the James Webb Space Telescope.
What happened to unfeathered freedom?
DT, when someone put a lot of effort to design and program a run launcher, the last thing you should do is start installing a dmenu. Especially before trying to use it as it is supposed to.
It's like when your friend borrows you his ferrari and you start to put potatoes in the back, cos usually you drive a pickup...
You do it quite often. It's fine to show people you can do everything with linux, but you stomp like an elephant over someones build and turn a promising garden into an elephant graveyard :)
Isn't that what most windows noob users do when they switch to Linux?
Try to do everything their old windowsy way, not trying to understand GNU/Linux?
Great video, I'm glad you took a look at this. I wouldn't call Wayland or Sway "alpha quality software", sure it is missing a lot of things xorg does, but what Wayland does do, it does well.
Multi-monitor support in Wayland is much better than xorg, supporting multiple refresh rates and scaling per monitor. Variable refresh-rate also works in multi-monitor setups.
Most of the software that I use is Wayland native, like Firefox, Chrome/Brave (just got support), any gtk application, alacritty. Electron apps don't have Wayland support yet but I think that's coming in the next few months. Xwayland works quite well for applications that don't support Wayland yet.
Because of the multi-monitor variable refresh-rate support, I would say that Sway is one of the best ways to play games on Linux, Xwayland works well for games, even wine/proton games.
I've been using Sway for the last few months and it has been a great experience. I'd like to see another video on Sway/Wayland in the future, maybe on bare metal Arch and not an in-development community spin of Manjaro.
The people working on Sway also work on wlroots, which is what Sway is based on. Others are working on wlroots based compositors/window managers like River, which I believe is supposed to be similar to bspwm.
Still waiting for an xmonad like wm with blur
Did chromium-ozone or something like that wayland support thing released?
Currently using sway+wayland on freebsd. Works good.
mate-panel, pcmanfm,caja,nemo run all perfect under sway+wayland.
At the time of this video, Sway was part of the drop down on the Manjaro website, but it was incorrectly showing as the second Budgie in the list of community editions. I saw it awhile back and randomly clicked on it, and it brought up Sway. They’ve since fixed it.
I know this has nothing to do with anything, but I thought it was funny I guess.
Ok, couple things first thing, wayland is not a display server, it's a display server protocol, sway does not run on wayland, sway uses the wayland protocol. Second thing, the wayland ecosystem is not alpha quality, it's ready for prime time. The overwhelming majority of software works wayland native. Very little modern software requires XWayland. Also X11 is deprecated...no one really maintains it outside of XWayland...and barely anyone even maintains that. You can easily record on sway with OBS using wlrobs hg.sr.ht/~scoopta/wlrobs Honestly this blog post would be a really good read drewdevault.com/2021/02/02/Anti-Wayland-horseshit.html dmenu will not work properly, it's not a wayland menu program. You need to use a wayland native menu like hg.sr.ht/~scoopta/wofi or github.com/Cloudef/bemenu Honestly this entire video is uninformed, you're coming from X11 and expecting sway to be a drop in replacement which is entirely flawed. I run sway daily, exclusively, on all my machines and I know a lot of friends that do. In fact I even take it a step further and run it without XWayland...mind you that is still a little on the crazy side at the moment. Wayland has replacements for everything...
Can you please move the camera in front of you? I find frustrating watch a person that seems to be talking to someone else all the time. Nice content btw. Keep up the good work.
x11 is old as f... so 11 years (12 already soon) in development is baby steps for wayland. but good that they're doing it, you know, might become the next big thing.
KDE will be ready with Wayland this year, with all the features work both on X and wayland, and there is replacement for X tools, wayland have really jump the last year, and the only thing missing is Nvidia support, and Nvidia is now talking about supporting Wayland this year too, so Wayland should be ready next year for US on WM, and if you want something closer to Qtile then there is River on Wayland .... enjoy
Alpha quality? It’s very very usable nowadays. Also you said it’s not usable for daily use but then you said fedora a massive distro supports it, but they keep x11. Of course they keep an x11
Yes!!! Finally!!!
i use sway on arch for a year or two now and it runs very, very nice. way less bugs than ubuntu, mint, pop os and so on.... maybe because sway is much more minimalistic compared to those DEs
couple of days ago logged on to manjaro to be greeted with lightspeed login error, this is when i saw on their site they decided to pull nvidia drivers despite knowing this would break peoples machines. Advice buy amd , good luck buying any video card at this time. In the end dont think that my problem as my card still supported. But having broken my system and combined with their attitude I've ditched them for another distribution.
Some help here and there: use ctrl+l instead of clear, start by installing things like vim, alias ls -lha to something like "ll" or just use fish shell
I have much better experience. The default terminal is set to kitty by default not alacritty.
I think a showcase of Sway / Wayfire / PaperDE an some of the key wlroots based widgets would be a good video
The error comes from the gtk3-nocsd(-git ?) package, which hides the client side decorations of GTK 3 windows. It probably just wasn't installed by default.
The errors are from ld telling you it cannot load a shared object library called libgtk3-nocsd. This particular library was made to remove the idiotic client side decorations from GNOME apps. Either it is missing, or there is something wrong with it. You could attempt to install it as it being missing is the most likely cause for the errors
it is dmenu(see in config), why is it call dmenu ... yes it was bound to mod+d ..... if i don't know better then i think you are new to WM DT
hey DT, opensuse also does have sway version.
and another wayland wm that is pretty complete in feature is wayfire. its the compiz of wayland, has many interesting animations, lol. garuda linux have wayfire version, i think.
There's a screen saver that won't let me past
im using this right now and it seems alright
That went well
Is this a bug simulator
Is there any benefit / advantage of running Wayland instead of Xorg? Faster, less resources, easier to develop for? End-user experience seems to be identical.
Better support for multiple monitors. Wayland supports per-display DPI scaling and per-display refresh rates (and multi monitor freesync).
"Computer says no"
EndeavourOS also has a community SWAY edition
DT: Wayland is alpha quality
Canonical: Hold my beer
yes I know they use xWayland
Hi DT! Could you show us LabWC Window Manager on Wayland? Its an Openbox clone
Manjaro Sway is actually an official community edition if you include the ARM builds.
Hey DT, could you PLEASE make a tutorial on what lxsession is and how I go get it working?
I'll make the tutorial in this post. Install 'polkit' and 'lxsession'; and then run 'lxsession' (or better yet, put in your window manager's autostart hook). Best of luck!
In my case, I installed lxsession, but autorun lxpolkit on my window manager, if I run lxsession, the whole environment changes to an lxde desktop
@@joelchrono I did this as well
Most people want to migrate to wayland because of xorg security issue. Wayland more secure than xorg.
Hiiii DistroTube..: what's your opinion about brave browser (If you can call it navigator)...
and could you make a video about the best Linux browsers (regarding performance)?
This is a good video.. Greetings!
23:35 No, Manjaro sway is
Wayland is quite decent now
And a properly configured sway too
It's just that this edition of Manjaro sway is broken af
Installing everything and configuring everything yourself would obviously be better, but, not everybody has time for that and/or know how to do it
Even in its current state, this is still my favorite distro right now! Way better looking and functioning than the i3 version. I hope it can become polished enough to become official.
Video about pipewire
Wayland is a lot better than you're giving it credit for and I prefer it in some cases such as when changing up monitors frequently. Sway is brilliant, I used it for about a year with no issue, all the apps I cared about ran fine with native wayland, even without the xwayland I wouldn't have missed anything.
Wayland needs more time to be ready until then I'm going to live on X11. I personally don't like i3WM that much So, don't have any intention to use Sway.
Thanks, for the nice video DT ❤️
This might be a lesson for all the people who want to switch to Linux why they should stick to 'supported' edition of whichever distro they want to use.
And they should avoid any advice of their 'friends' telling them to tryout the 'newest kid on the block'. It does more harm to the growth of Linux than it does good.
Geeze the worst time I had with a new desktop environment. Sway is really bad WTF.
Waymonad :D
Wayland is buggy as hell but at least it has some level of support for UHD touch screens.
@Jorg If you insist Wayland is solid then I will blame KDE and Ubuntu... and Firefox.
Wayland has support for freesync with a multi-monitor setup.
ArcoLinux should have a better Sway at the moment. Maybe try that?
Please do your homework before doing a video comon, it’s not profissional, and don’t review it in a not even official spin of a distro, it’s disrespectful for sway and manjaro devs which worked hard on their projects, and of course for the Linux community that you defend so much. You can’t expect coming to wayland using applications specifically made for xorg like (x)randr. It’s in the name, that is meant for xorg. If you did your research, you would know about wldisplays or sway internal options. It’s like you want to hate on wayland. I use wayland for 2 years and it’s totally fine, yes it need some polish here and there and nvidia support (I just don’t buy nvidia) but for me it’s way better than xorg already.
nvidia needs wayland support...that's hardly the wayland community's problem
Wasn't StumpWM a breeze in comparison :P
Your AUR DMenu didn't install because you didn't install the default build environment files. That is why strip was missing. sudo pacman -S base-devel on most Arch distros before you can build packages from the AUR. The errors in the terminal are related to gtk client side decorations and the termite terminal in wayland. Installing yay -S gtk3-nocsd-git may have helped.
If you install this now you'd have a better experience. I love it as this makes my laptop runs cool. I hate it as it sometimes freezes for no reason after a good working session with it. Well, it's still alpha.
Nice password, sir. 😎
Elon musk: if the design of your product takes too long, it is a bad design. He is taking a swipe at sls and blue origin.
It's kinda weird. Wayland works so well on virtual machine but it's very buggy on my regular machine
Wayland works great
why not going for Manjaro architect? afaik it does not ship with xorg