Hack Squirt and Other Whitetail Habitat FAILS to AVOID
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 3 дек 2024
- Hack and squirt whitetail habitat improvements rarely have a place in the whitetail woods. Whether "whitetail habitat managers" are destroying the wrong trees, promoting the wrong kind of growth or leaving a giant mess that could cost thousands of dollars to clean up, there are several reasons that hack and squirt whitetail habitat projects can easily fail. As a general rule if you are attempting to create Summer cover or timber stand improvement than hack and squirt activities may be for you. However if you are attempting to create quality Fall and Winter habitat, QDM herds or quality hunts...then hack and squirt habitat improvement rarely would be for you. In fact as I detail the story about Frank from MI in this video, girdling and hack and squirt activities can even be dangerous. If you are considering hack and squirt activities on your land, including girdling portions of your timber, please do your herd, your habitat and your hunt a favor and consider other options. Timber harvest, canopy removal and even hinge cutting are all better options the majority of the time for your deer habitat, and the hack and squirt fails discussed in this video are great examples of what not to do, when considering future habitat improvement activities.
Yes makes perfect sense.
Thanks Randle!
I live in upstate NY it's always cold I just want to use a method to clear the land so I can build a house it's not ACE is like 5000sq ft. The lot is about 5000sq feet.
Beautiful deer 10 points. At 10:00. Been gone for a while.. catching up with your videos
a bunch of dead standing trees sounds like managing for woodpecker habitat and an interesting way to get killed on a windy day
Great video Jeff!! I’ve seen this hack and squirt option on properties i was looking to buy, totally turned me off. Looked like a complete forest dissapointment!!I totally agree with the safety part of it, would never want to do any work in those areas. The property i own now we did the hinge cut practice and we created so much more deer browse, way faster than hack and squirt. I’m sure some people are going toke this video the wrong way, because people follow other bloggers, but in my experience and what I’ve seen from you, you are spot on again. You are being honest from what you seen first hand, and there are no big name sponsors telling you what to say or not to say. Your going to have you hands full responding to everyone on this topic.
Thanks a lot Brian! For sure...already a couple of hours of comment work, lol. Oh well...I really appreciate your feedback! And yes for sure, talk about a way to plummet a parcel value 😉 Oh for sure...
Hinge cuts may not be pretty to the casual habitat manager, but they can be maintained indefinitely, reversed into timber if desired and allow a landowner to utilize the natural, renewable resources of the land. Again hinge cuts are not for everyone...but are an extremely powerful tool if the timber type is appropriate. In particular if you care about producing QDM herds and quality hunting opportunities...like we do...then there almost always a better option than hack and squirt.
Whitetail Habitat Solutions Not all foresters, want to build your property for whitetails either, some of those folks are driven by the logging world,I’ve learned also. So be careful on your choice of foresters also.
@@brianlenneman5032 man such great advice Brian! Some are COMPLETELY timber driven, despite the landowners goals. Unfortunately I have witnessed this firsthand many times over, many different states. I have seen the other side too... professional foresters that work towards the landowner goals. I can think of a pretty bad one in WI...and a few great ones, just in WI alone. Folks have to be very careful when hiring...while there are a lot more good ones than bad, it only takes 1 bad one to severely hurt your land.
For every habitat technique there seems to be a polar opposite technique that is contradictory. It can be really confusing for a novice average joe like myself. All approaches seem to make good sense. I was definitely in the hinge cut camp right outta the gate then I watched Dr. Grant Woods videos that are pro hack and squirt and warn against hinge cutting which had me convinced I should hack and squirt! Now just as I had a hatchet and spray bottle in hand ready to go to town I watch this video 🧐. I truly admire and respect both Jeff and Dr. Woods but think I’d better pause and think on my approach 🤔
Shaun, what I try to do is offer real world examples. I actually have a hinge cut fails video too. A hack and squirt fails video. I have extensive hinge cutting experience on hundreds of small parcels. Fails. Success. Keep in mind there is a time and place for everything. I don't watch other habitat managers content because I learn in the field...nearly 900 parcels in 26 states and counting. Hinge cutting is an extremely viable tool in the small parcel management tool box (500-1000 acres or less). Hack and squirt rarely is because it targets Summer browse and destroys potential renewable Fall browse. However, it is a viable large parcel (500-1000 acres) tactic because it can be accomplished on a very large scale. I don't work on very many large parcels. So my perspective is completely different than someone who bases management on large parcels and large parcel science.
The smaller the parcel the more a very strong experience level of mature buck hunting and killing experience has to come into play. The larger the parcel, the more science takes over because the size of the of the parcel is large enough to encompass hunting mistakes.
Small parcel management takes a completely different level of experience than large parcel experience.
Consider the source...the level of experience and make decisions. That applies to everything in life. There are very few absolutes. Every habitat improvement tool has its place.
If you have 500-1000 acres+ and are going to manage on a large scale application...consider hack and squirt. If not...you could be making one of the greatest mistakes of your life, and I hope this videos delivers why.
Here is my Top 10 Hinge Cut Fail Video...and this is coming from someone who prescribes hinge cuts between 20 and 25% of the time on small parcels. Balance and experience is key to any advice...
ruclips.net/video/AP6LjcAut8E/видео.html
Hope it helps!
Whitetail Habitat Solutions thanks Jeff! Just doing my best not to learn the hard way and trying to manage a small parcel here in SW MI I believe u are right and gotta keep things in context as I look for the right way to go about managing our property and discern what is best for the way we wish to be good stewards of the land we are blessed to have. Thanks again and keep the videos coming! 👍🦌
@@shaunkinsey5709 you are very welcome Shaun! I really do try to help folks find balance...try to offer real world advice based on the experience of hundreds of sites, mistake and success stories, and my own personal failings and success. Trust me if there was a better way I have no agenda. I turn away products for a lot of money for endorsement because I do not have to promote various low quality sponsors to make a living. It makes it nice because if I have experienced it many times offer I offer that perspective...good or bad. I attack bad advice with a vengeance...and seek good advice with an incredible thirst. No matter who I offend or how many dollars I may lose in sponsored partnerships.
I truly hope it all helps you out!
I have a ton of white ash and red maple. Do you mean to completely cut it down or hinge cut them? Going out to the property this weekend.
Same stuff occurs in environmental conservation circles. Plant hardwoods and don't consider the overall ecosystem. A lot of it comes from rush to complete, limited knowledge of ecosystem they are addressing, lack of vision and not seeing the big picture.
Why does Grant Woods basically say the exact opposite on Growing Deer TV?
I wondered the same thing.
Not sure, I don't watch anyone elses videos but some of The Hunting Public and The Breaking pint TVs. Probably just different backgrounds and type of experience? Not sure why...as someone who has been on nearly 900 client parcels in 26 states...just what I see.
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 One thing Grant Woods recommends after doing hack and squirt is doing hot controlled burns, which makes the property available much earlier. He also doesn't recommend hinge cutting. His habitat in the Ozark mountains is unique also, which needs to be taken into consideration.
@@dr.bobelliott954 what Whitetails need the most is woody regen and high stem count cover that holds during the Fall and Winter. I'm a fan of any safe method that creates that form of cover and browse. There are many ways to get the job done depending on location, resources, etc. I just haven't personally seen a viable, quality hack and squirt habitat improvement. I have had to recommend how clients would spend thousands of dollars or many man hours to clean up tho. TBH I have seen and experienced many hinge cut messes too, but nearly all of those could be actually turned into an improvement with a few more hours of chainsaw work, with the actual resource of Regen and browse still intact and alive.
Grant's arguement is killing the canopy without piling up clutter on the forest floor produces native vegetation which is more beneficial in terms of browse and cover. He also doesn't seem to use it on large trees. On those he prefers to cut down then burn. I think his approach may be best but only if your can afford it and can do prescribed burns. In PA it takes an act of Congress to be allowed to burn (actually it takes hiring a certified burn master, typically his crew, and submitting plans).
Well......glad I watched this. Just watched a video about opening up an area, leave the hardwood, remove the rest and control burn. It looked beautiful quick but I already had that thought that it would be absolutely barren in the winter. I have 150 acres in the hills of southern WV...beech, oak, hickory, Tulip polar. Its all good when mast hits but not a lot of browse. I think I'll go ahead with my plan to just daylight some of these logging roads with hinge cuts and some 1/4 acre areas and plant some clover chicory until I can get PH decent....then reevaluate.
This video has me afraid of doing that to myself! Appreciate it though.
I have performed approxamently 75 acres of Hack and squirt and currently working on another 80 acres at this time, the original 75 acres is approximately 4 years old, we have been encouraged by the new growth of oaks as well as the increase in wildlife. I am performing the work in eastern Kentucky with guidance from the Kentucky Wildlife biologist. The area before we started was old growth forest that was predominantly maple due to many years of high grade logging, which is really take the best leave the rest logging. After watching your video and hearing your stories as well as trying the hinge cutting program myself, it appears to me that the point is to NEVER end up with a monoculture of any type. I think a point that you are trying to make is that you are trying to never clear the plate as you put in other videos, like you would do on a small piece of property if you clear cut and let the forest start again new. For small parcels the problem is that if you have the perfect deer property it is always growing and changing and thus the deer habitat is changing. so if it is perfect today it won't be in 10 years. So as deer property managers the challenge is to constantly try to keep the woods in young growth to offer protection and food but to also keep it hunt-able. I am fortunate that I have a fairly large piece of land that we are trying to checker board with young and old timber areas, thus giving hunting opportunities in these transition areas as well as natural pinch points. On this property we have done almost all types of habitat work including Hack and spray, Edge Feathering, Hinge cutting, Timber thinning, and Logging. I think they all work if performed properly but they are not a one and done solution. Just a thought... Love your channel keep up the great work!!!
My Forest Management Plan (which includes areas for whitetail habitat) calls for hack & squirt on sweet gum and red maple. The sweet gum, especially, had gotten so out of control, it was ridiculous! And each year they are up, is just more sprouting. I think this, combined with hinge cutting poplars will yield good results. After watching this video, I am wondering if hinge cutting the red maples would be a better use of them? Add the location is Tennessee.
Getting rid of the sweet gum is not a bad idea, although deer will feed on the young growth of sweet gum hinge cuts during the Fall and Winter. However, red maple are an even higher browse preference level and very easy to hinge cut too. I would utilize the red maple for certain!
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 Can do. Thanks for the advice!
@@lances4803 oh for sure ..hope that it helps!
From what I can tell, hack and squirt is very effective if used in conjunction with prescribed fire, without it it’s counterproductive. Hinge cutting the same, if it’s not constantly managed after hinge cutting then it’s counterproductive
I'd like to see a podcast with WHS and Grant Woods/Growing deer debating hack/squirt vs hinge cutting. Seems like you have some paralleling ideas and some differing ideas and think it would be a highly valuable discussion.
Up here in the north it just turns it into thickets which are are loaded with deer beds. In the years leading up to full on thicket, it's amazing browse for rabbit, turkey, and deer. Also absolutely perfect fawning grounds. I know in the properties I've seen hack and squirt dramatically increased the whitetail hunting, by increasing the numbers of whitetail the property held and also increasing numbers on neighboring properties. Hack and squirt is crucial to barren stands of pines and other hardwoods if you want to increase deer numbers. How often do you actually see deer in a stand of hardwoods? Maybe when they are feeding on acorns, but sapling Oak need at least 4-5 hours sun to grow, so without hack n squirting other junk wood around your oaks it can be very hard for other oaks to establish. As good as these videos are, you missed it on this 1 for sure!
The "hack and squirt" method is a valuable tool! Implemented by people who don't know how to do it correctly leads to the things mentioned in your video. Those individuals should be working with people who understand this technique such as yourself and other not mentioned qualified individuals to ensure proper implementation of the technique.
It for sure is a viable tool, just shouldn't be used very often at all on whitetail parcels. I believe hinge cuts should only be used 20-25% of the time...hack and squirt much lower. In fact I have not recommended hack and squirt on nearly 900 parcels in 26 states. Hack and squirt would have been appropriate on a few...but there were better options. I would say I've talked a few dozen out of hack and squirt activities tho...often in pockets of similar forestry practices among like minded foresters. Definitely a viable tool....just not needed or even damaging, in the majority of situations I have seen it prescribed. Definitely more of a southern 1/2 of the country tool...
I have watched all your videos, thank you for all you have taught me. I'm a huge fan of yours, I've implemented alot of what you teach.
Thank you very much Brian! That really means a lot to me and I take it to heart...have a great season!
Total off topic but just heard you may be doing a public land challenge with The Hunting Public!? That would be awesome man! Hope you can join them! Would love to see videos from both crews, and the others involved also!
Thanks a lot James... definitely going unless something unforseen were to take place. At least the first 4 days of the season, and I have Dylan scheduled to come film - even better! I can't wait...huge honor to take part ☺️
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 that's awesome! Cannot wait to see how it all goes!
@@EDFM.1 will be a lot of fun...may hunt a few places to show how the land dictates the strategy. Too many try to force one strategy into every land they hunt...that won't be the case with our hunt. Will definitely get into the depth of cover on a public chunk thru a back door approach the hard way. That's all I am saying 😁 Will Make at least 8-10 of our own strategy videos while there. Can't wait!
Look forward to it, and real curious where in Michigan this will take place. We’ll have to wait and see
Jeff... you need to control all variables my fiend; have Dylan sleep over at your house; that way you can give him a kick in the pants to wake up!!😂 lol!!!
Jeff I truly appreciate your knowledge I have implemented many of your tactics so far on the 35 acres im allowed to hunt and have my way with and it has all been for the better I know there is some backlash about people saying you're just bashing growing deer channel but your channel is focused so well to smaller parcels like mine, can't wait will be heading from Iowa to Wisconsin this year to try and bag my first out of state deer
Thank you that means a lot to me! Just trying to provide good information to help folks out! Man I hope you find success in WI 👍 This stuff is a lot of fun isn't it!?
We have a big problem with those jewel beetles in Minnesota.
Very unfortunate!! You have them on your land?
Whitetail Habitat Solutions, yes a few trees have them on my land, but a couple miles down have been getting terrorized by them
I prefer to hack n squirt trees 6" or less and burn every 3-4 years with no replanting. Do I do this across all 1000 acres? No. Only a hand full of 1-2 acre stands. Also recently added a few bow range burns thanks to the suggestions of the MSU Deer Lab guys. In my opinion it all may work if applied properly.
Depending on the habitat type...you could be making huge mistakes, could be doing a great job. Unless the person offering you advice has a huge level of applying balanced decisions for hundred of landowners...make sure to stay clear. If you are referring to MSU as in MI State University and you live in MI...you are likely making huge mistakes. If in MO or MS then maybe not due to the complexity of habitat in those locations and southern habitat types.
While hack and squirt is a viable tool...it is appropriate a very small % of the time - in particular in northern settings...meaning the North 20 whitetail states.
Thank you for the reply. I am in northern Mississippi. We have a mix of hardwood (mostly oak), pine plantation and crop land (soybean, corn and sweet potato). Historically, our pine plantation has been left alone for timber production but with the timber value being so low now we are working towards thinning to a 40 basal area and creating pine savannah. And I'm not discounting anything you have said. Just saying that this has worked for my situation. I also do not doubt that I could benefit from some hinge cutting to establish so year round bedding areas.
I live/hunt in Georgia, and have about 40 acres I can work with. It was farm land about 40 years ago, now it is thick crowded volunteer growth of pines, scrub soft and hard woods. There are only about a dozen white oaks, and another dozen or two pin oaks with the rest of the trees being "useless" for feeding deer. The land severely lacks food for deer especially after Thanksgiving. I cant go in and harvest trees as it is all family land and not solely mine, but I can cut down/kill some trees. What would you recommend to thin out some of the woods that are overcrowded and have no understory growth?
Hack n squirt
Fire, #1 tool that is natural and beneficial. Just have to be able to do it safely and smartly. I don't care what practice you do, if you do it poorly your results will be poor.
Not a big fan of fire either...in most settings. So many urn fields in the Spring with no real sense of purpose. That is a video I am creating for late Winter, "Controlled Burn Whitetail Habitat Fails"....was also a part of my bad deer science vid earlier this year. Often fire is just creating Summer habitat at the expense of Fall and Winter habitat. Not always...but often. Grasses, Summer weeds, forbs and forages take Iver that are unavailable non the Fall/Winter months. Not always...but often. I feel sometimes the highest value are the pictures the controlled burns create for social media. A few of us shake out heads and laugh during "Instagram Controlled Burn" season ☺️
Please do a video on Invasive plants.Like Japanese barberry,Bush honeysuckle and buckthorn.Thank You.
Look for the Cornell Forest Connect channel.
We leave the red oaks and white oaks here down to a certain size.
There are always some great ones to cut...Leaners, subordinate small crowns, multi trunked...you can clean up the woods from poor producing trees, get more sunlight to the ground and create more acorns 🙂 Not all oaks are good oaks
Jeff,
I agree....very difficult to manage for a quality forest and develop a quality wildlife habitat!!!
Oh so true Bob! In particular on small parcels...
I'm confused as to how the hack and squirt or girdle method used on the aspens created a park like affect? No matter the TSI practice, shouldn't there have been considerable amounts of sunlight to hit the forest floor and regenerate other cover/food once the the tree's canopy diminished? Or were the aspens the under cover in comparison to the taller red oaks which blocked out more sunlight?
This video reveals the facts. I've got a woods with open hardwoods. It's been that way for years and years and so therefore, the deer would only use it a lot in the summer months. I now do select cuts every 5 years unless I find trees that have died and in that case, I don't waste much time getting it down. But opening the canopy allowing sunlight and getting the tops on the ground and leaving them, plus a little hinge cutting along the travel corridors, it really does work well. I've never practiced hack and squirt because it simply sounds like a horrible idea from the start. Bad enough with all the dead ash falling. Which we're removing all those slowly also. Its harder to do just because of risk of hang up, but I've found that if you drop an oak tree with the leaves on and leave the top there, the deer are amazingly attracted to that one over an oak dropped in the winter with no leaves. Naturally, the leaves will fall off and decay eventually, but I found that kind of interesting. However, oak market is typically higher in the winter months so it depends on what a guy's goals are before he starts any practice with cutting trees.
That's great to hear Shawn...really good feedback and I appreciate it! Very interesting your observations with leaves. I find mature bucks seem to avoid late Summer cuttings at times...in particular for clearing stand location shooting lanes. I just cleared major lanes for a new stand and am worried about that for a certain target buck.
The ash trees are a great example...just a mess but if you can cut them down prior to dying, they can feature outstanding regeneration! Thank you Shawn...
Bad idea to open up the canopy now days!!! You in time will end up with mostly multi flora rose and prickly ash ....wild life transport these problem brush in !
@@hairymanonetwo I'm going to leave this one up there just for the fun of it, lol
Jeff,
What’s your thoughts on Privet? I have woods that are full of it. They take up all the under growth and are mature, not letting sunlight hit the ground. The other trees are elm ash and cedar. The ground is just bare dirt where no sunlight hits because of the privet. Would hack and squirt be suitable for this so that native stuff can grow on the floor sunlight able to hit it? Thanks for all your videos. I’ve enjoyed and watched pretty much all them.
Really good question Adam I have not encountered a lot of privet! I would look at killing mass quantities of it in pockets and see how it responds, as well as the preferred habitat around it. Not very good stuff!
Thanks for asking Adam!
Great Info Jeff as always, thanks for sharing
Great video, again. An earlier video of yours saved me some work in that I left alone some areas of poplar regeneration and instead planted trees for longer term screening. One question on hack and squirt - What would you do to keep invasive buckthorn in check?
Thanks a lot Robert and I hope it saved you a lot of time and money!
Boy that's a tough one! From any buckthorn expect I have hear from, you need to completely pull the tree out with the roots? And even then it will most likely come back. I have heard some pretty negative outlooks on it and I wish I could tell you more! Certainly do not know of a magic fouls that has worked well for a landowner.
Have you tried anything that has worked? Hopefully someone else will chime in...
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 I've done basil bark treatments a few times, (hack & spray with no hack) and killed around 75% of what I targeted. A few challenges though. Once I started targeting buckthorn, I began to realize how big of an issue I had, and I now see it everywhere. It can be very tedious - the buckthorn bushes standing by themselves are easy to hit, but the buckthorn growning among a bunch of regrowth that I want to preserve is where it gets very time consuming. I also noticed that just on the other side of the property line is infested with it, so unless my neighbors do something, nothing I do about it will last. We need the emerald ash borer to morph into an buckthorn borer.
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 I have used the cut stump method (cut it off at the base of the tree) and brushed the stump with 41% glyphosate. You got to do this in the winter when the sap is in the roots. I also have used the hack n squirt on brush size buckthorn when I want the dead buckthorn to act as cover/screening. Greats kills with both methods and so far no stump sprouting or any other evidence of regeneration of the buckthorn
hack n squirt also done in winter. I don't think you can pull buckthorn with any success.
Your exactly right brother I never thought of it like this. Very informative video. I’ve not been able to get a plot in not doin to good health wise but I’ll get it. Be safe out there GOD BLESS.
Hope your health ok my friend!
I get the point of your video however as others here have said, the examples you reference are ways you should NOT hack and squirt. The point of the method is to remove undesirable species that provide no nutrition value whatsoever and open up the canopy. The result is a massive increase in native grasses and forbs which results in more food and bedding cover. Hack and squirt combined with regular burns is extremely cost effective and beneficial for deer. Hinge cutting was/is definitely a fad IMO and it’s often done incorrectly on the wrong tree species which results in a total nightmare. To sum up, you aren’t supposed to hack in all habitat types. If you do it in the correct forest types it’s by far one of the best techniques around.
Question on a topic I haven’t seen you cover yet, do you use prescribed burns at all? I see you have plenty of native season grasses with your switch grass. But you don’t burn it off at any point for hunting season?
Hi Carlos I love controlled burns for switch if needed. Planting with chemicals correctly and frost seeding are bith great ways to make sure your Switchgrass lasts a long time before needing to be burned. I am not a fan of controlled burns that create more Summer grass cover or Summer food, at the expense of Fall cover or food. Many controlled burns of CRP are just creating more poor Fall/Winter food and Cover...or strengthening that cover, and removing quality woody growth if trees and shrubs - so not a fan as prescribed to the degree that it is. Makes great pics on Instagram tho...but often not as effective as folks intend for it to be. Great tool...but a part of my bad science for deer video from last Winter. Not because it is a bad tool...just largely overused and at times...like anything...doing more harm than good.
Whitetail Habitat Solutions yes sir. I just like the sound of it forcing deer from those fields into having to bed in the woods, on strictly bow hunting properties. Then come spring when fawns are around it grows back for cover for them and turkey poults later.
@@carlosweaver6763 oh for sure Carlos! Keep in mind typically the best whitetail parcels have the least amount of fawns and mature bucks on them during the Summer. So a great whitetail parcel should reflect that when addressing the timing for the availability of quality habitat!
Whitetail Habitat Solutions Thanks. And sorry for having lots of question but could you answer yes or no on my comment below this one? I’m from the south and wonder the changes on the trees you mention for winter food. I wanted lots of oaks im glad you are changing my mind before I made that mistake
I have 40 acres that I just bought in mid Michigan. About a third of it is oak with plenty of undergrowth cover of red and white pine, Beech and Sassafras. A third has a thick pine stand, some with a mix of soft maple etc. The other third is a mix of Popple, Ironwood, soft maple with briars, blueberries, Autumn Olive, and Sassafras. There seems to be a healthy Whitetail population with trails throughout the whole property along with mature bucks. How do I maintain this balance through the years? I know I will have to take out some of the bigger oaks, Beech, and Pine to maintain the undergrowth, but the question is how much? I will be doing it myself as I have a bandsaw mill to produce lumber if I choose to.
Such a loaded question Jack...so much to determine BUT I would most likely leave the beech because if you cut beech you get more beech and I do like those gnarly old beechnut producers. But, cutting out the weak oak, or non mast producing mature oaks... subordinates and Leaners is a great idea! Try to give more canopy to you dominate mast producers. Leaving the tops and logs on the ground doesn't hurt either, but you should cut trails and areas for Whitetails to easily move thru.
In bedding areas you should cut a much higher % open and down. You can maintain all of this over time...no rush because it sounds like you already have a great thing going.
As always great info and thank you for being kind and caring enough to share, I got my plant planted, water hole in, marks scrape up, Two stands in with great access!! Two quick questions sir, number one what part grunt call do you use? And number two how can I get a shirt or sweatshirt or hat with your logo on it?
Thank you JJ! Sounds like a lot of great work completed 👍I use a variety...but I like the low, deep grunt of more of a rubber coated tube than a plastic one. Man I wish I had some right now...but I will! Are you more of a flat bill kind of a guy or traditional trucker style for hats?
I look goofy in a flat bill, trucker style for sure, I looked on your website to see if you sold such items, but I’d love to wear your logo for sure, hat shirt don’t matter
We dont have aspen or boxelder here in southwest tn. My property is 75% Whiteoak big enough to cut with hickory, gum few ash. We dont want to cut but want a whitetail haven. What do you suggest I do? Dream property dont want to sell it my home area. I went to one long ridge to henge cut and nothing but white oaks with high stem count of new growth trees but in winter open.
Would you cut? Sounds like the perfect opportunity to cut subordinate and low or non producing oak trees to not only open the canopy and create both growth and cover, but to create even more acorns from the best mast producers...which you do not want to cut!
Then I would introduce conifer within some of the heavier cut areas to diversify your timber.
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 I think select cutting this winter will be the best. I need a new tractor anyway. I will just select areas that will benefit me for the deer to create opening to the forest floor . Will this will produce the high stem count you mention?
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 I have a cut over to the east of 67 acres and cutover to the west about the same. 179 acres of big timber in the middle with large Ag fields to the south (not my ag) but my line goes to it. Lots of pressure around the ag fields hunting season so trying to get the deer over here this fall.
@@Grizzlife yes it will...that sounds great Grizz! Do it most where you need deer to move and then maintain that areas for decades to come.
@@Grizzlife create that high stem count core area where you don't allow hunter scent, sound or site to enter and that setup will be golden in a situation like that!!
I agree. Just get rid of the trees that deer don't eat from, maple, pine, etc. Then hinge cut those, not kill them!
There are so many ways to get the job done depending on a host of factors...but I haven't seen that hack and squirt activities have been one of them. The focus should be on Fall/Winter hardwood Regen shoots in the woods...briars, woody shrub tips. Conifers are needed...deer love young maple growth. So many ways...but hack and squirt or girdling should be used very little if ever at all on just about any whitetail land.
yeah adding to Jeff's reply I'd say pine and maple have their place. I've seen deer key in on maple keys just as readily as acorns.
@@stevepalmateer especially the hardwood Regen! Some of the best for deer...and red maple is one of the best tree species to hinge cut, and experience optimum side regen.
Lucky me! I have a lots of red maple on our property!
Hey Jeff. What are your thoughts on balsam fir for wildlife?
Hi Bill! They are a really low value conifer...just weak, thin and short lived. White spruce, Norway spruce, white pine, red cedar and even Jack or red pine to me have more value. I like red pine purely to add with slower growing spruce pockets or screening. Jack pine deer love to rub and scrape under...great for snowshoe hare too.
I think there are better options...
Thanks for the reply Jeff. Ya that was my understanding too. I’m trying to cut them out and just chip them up onto the forest floor mostly. See what new grows!
Cheers
@@billdawson8458 You are very welcome Bill! Even just completely cutting them and letting the lay on the forest floor is not a bad idea! They will be dead of course, but they do priced side cover 😉
Sounds good. Thanks again for the on going advice.
Look on the ground, your future cover is there very small trees and bushes are waiting for sunlight. I took out an area of maple and now I have maple, white pine, red pine, spruce and some oak shooting up.
jeff,
can't wait to see you with THP boys, should be great. not sure why people are getting so bent about the hack and squirt thing. you are just sharing what you have learned from your experiences. Grant Woods seems like a great guy. you are both entitled to your opinions. i appreciate you sharing your years of experience with us.
thanks.
Hi Jeff, thanks for this video. We were just discussing doing this to our property. Basically it's mainly a mature oak property, it was timbered roughly 20 years ago, and alot of stripe maple has grown in the meantime. They are mainly 4 inches and less in diameter, would you recommend to not hack and squirt those maples? We thought we by doing this it would allow for other brows to grow and get thicker that the deer would like more. Any input would be greatly appreciated. PS. We are planting your seed plot mix this weekend and have a ton of rye to try for the first time in September. Thanks again.
Dan thanks and that is great to hear about your plots...look forward to hearing about it!
I would look at removing poorly grown oaks, and subordinate oaks. Learners, multi trunked, limited crowned trees. Then I would hinge the maple instead of hack and squirt. Removing a portion of the low quality oaks ..or just plain cutting them down...will allow sunlight to hit the forest floor and the hinge cut maples can provide browse and high stem count woody regen cover. Make sure to make low hinge cuts. You would drop the oaks first...then hinge cut after.
Does that make sense? The maple would then become just a portion of the overall browse...including new oak regen.
Thank you for the quick response. We will try to do that after hunting season then. Take care.
@@colton7007 sound good Dan...that will be great timing!
hack and squirt is not the same as girdling, try the two on separate beech trees and tell me what happens?
They both die. Also, I do not typically encourage cutting beech trees because you get beech brush and regen in it's place, while also eliminating a 1/2 way decent mast crop at the same time. Beech brush is starvation food for deer. Also with beech blight sweeping across the country once you rove it, you may never see it again on a parcel. I love big old beech trees...
What are the best trees to hinge cut? I heard you mention poplars, i have a ton of poplars and they are prolific. I've cut down small poplars and the next year had 10 sprouts out of that stump its crazy however I've also read that deer won't browse on poplars. You think they will? If so Im set and ready to get sun to the ground and create side cover and food from the over abundance of poplars I have.
This video could have been titled: "Chainsaw cutting and Other Whitetail Habitat FAILS to AVOID". The inadequate timber management and planning led to the problems discussed here, not the implementation of the said techniques.
Jeff, just walked for the first time my 20 acre very messy woods. Not sure of all species but not an easy walk. Was thinking of hinge cutting or hack and squirt but after the walkthrough the area had a tornado some years ago and wow it's a Jungle and I mean jungle of trash trees and vines, very thick thick cover. Was thinking now to do a prescribe burn technique. Thoughts on prescribe burn?
It really depends on the woody browse. Sounds like the perfect are to create open pockets in the timber and deer travel corridors by your treestands. A rotary drum/forestry mower on a Bobcat can be the perfect tool for this! Or s lot of chainsaw work. Sounds like you have too much cover and lots of wildlife goodness waiting happen...just need to open it up and create maze and pocket areas for bedding
What do you do with sumac?
Staghorn Sumac is awesome!! Preferred winter browse and bedding cover when near adjacent switchgrass, dense shrubs like honeysuckle or Autumn olive, or conifers. Definitely don't kill 😉
Also one of the best species to find rubs within, while speeding down the highway 👍
Is there an appropriate hack and squirt application for beech trees? I have a few areas on my property where there are very dense suckers and shoots growing. They are closing that mid canopy. I'm not totally sure the best way to tackle this problem.
SV...I never hack and squirt. I like those old ancient beech trees and the bad thing is that if you cut beech you get more beech. Beech regen is bad, but I like limited mature beech. I've had some great areas of harvested beech that were kept in check with mowing/brush hog. Great briar, cherry and maple regen came back in those areas, eventually.
Public land challenge!! 👍
If you have time I just wonder with living in Arkansas does this all still apply. We rarely get snow and there are 0 aspens. Would bringing in basswood, maples (red/silver), flowering dogwoods, cedars. Would all these trees help to create browse for the winter months? Do you have a video over bushes to plant also...such as beauty berry and greenbriar. Hope you have time to answer and thank you. Watch every video you release and a new subscriber
I cant wait to see you on the Deer Tour with the Hunting public guys!
Thanks Mike! Will be doing the public land challenge in early October, in MI and I can't wait!
Question: What if we're not first harvesting the big timer but only removing mid-story trees while leaving the upper story trees (oak, hickory, walnut)? Also, we're in KY and aiming to get our paw paws, hazelnuts, lowbush blueberries and the like to succesfully fruit.
Hack n squirt = death. Hinge cutting the roots are still alive.. Throwing up shoots.
Couldn't hinge cutting also create a mess if done improperly?
Man it sure can Stephen, which is why I have several videos and highly placed articles on Google how to do it right. Also why I point out that hinge cutting is only appropriate on 20-25% of all lands.
Something different with huge cut messes is that most can be cleaned up quickly with just a few more chainsaw hours of work. Also, the actual resource of wood cover regen and browse regen is almost always still alive and available for explosion. In hack and squirt fail messes the resource is just plain DEAD.
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 yeah I have no intention of hacking and squirting the trees on my property, but because of the Northern bigwoods setting I find myself in, I don't think hinge cutting is the answer either. The big question I have is, do I let the stumps sprout to provide woody browse or do I terminate them and plant higher value food resources in an attempt to make the property more attractive. I guess allowing the stumps to sprout is cheaper...
Something else you didn't mention Even if tubing oak trees would have worked . It takes 20 to 30 years before oak trees produce nuts . Me I don't think I want to wait that long
Hi John! I think it is a great idea to plant oaks...in the woods, but not at the oversll expense of high quality Fall/Winter browse trees or shrubs. Oaks are a great compliment to great whitetail parcels but oaks themselves do not produce great whitetail parcels - in fact the opposite. Even tho it takes so long for them to grow, they are still great to plant for someone else to enjoy...maybe even the grandkids some day ☺️
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 Mono cultures of anything is bad for game. I see it where I live not with deer but with pheasants and quail. When I was a kid both were everywhere. Now due to modern farming practices fields are deserts between crops. Habitat is what keeps wild animals healthy and not just game animals
@@johnkendall6962 great points John! I blame a lot of that on CRP low value grass and cover mixes, no fence rows etc ..but it all boils back to cover. Even the pheasant mixes of today are very poor for actually holding pheasants and rabbits during the Winter...it just lays right over. No cover during the Fall and Winter...no small game species. A little solid Switchgrass cover goes a long ways, and helps to break apart that mono culture of nothing.
Funny how GrowingDeerTV recommends the opposite when talking about hack and squirt and hinge cutting.
Not sure what Grant does, but I do know that with visiting nearly 900 clients in 26 states since 2005...hack and squirt fails account for some of the most major, irreversible disasters I have seen on client lands. All of them created by professionals...all of them hard to reverse without a lot of money and time, most often at the expense of highly valuable wildlife habitat. Maybe just a different background?
Great video! That gives me a good idea for these ash trees. I'll admit that we girdled a couple huge cottonwoods bc we didn't have time to clean trails through them or get rid of them this year, but wanted to open the canopy. I'll try to work at getting rid of them completely next year and leave a stump
Thanks Nick! I just love woody regen growth....but man some times those big ole cottonwoods are a pain! Hopefully they aren't near any of your trails 😉 Giant widow makers.
The best wildlife habitat just leave it alone and let mother nature do what she wants.
Hi Jesse I hope you are being sarcastic? Mature white pine, hardwoods...wildlife's worst enemy. Even early Successional growth fields...horrible when folks let those go instead of taking an active role to actually attract and hold wildlife. In 2 years in a field you can create a wildlife hotspot that actually had enough cover to hold Whitetails, as well as pheasants and rabbits. Letting it go can take 20 years or more to do the same. Nature does better? Man...hardly, don't be fooled...
Not relevant to this video but do you have a video explaining how to calculate the score of a day for your weather formula? It’s hard to understand because I looked back at weather underground and the numbers don’t match your blog.
Hi Logan I know it is tough...just a rough algorithm. BUT, very important that you weigh temperature change heavily...then extreme wind change, followed by extreme weather change like wind, rain, thunder, snow, hail, etc.
Look for points of calm sometimes a little bit before major weather...but definitely following major weather changes. Regardless if the score...circle those on a map and go in for a sit. Or two. Keep in mind the barometric pressure may be high or low...it is the tangeable weather factors that matter.
I hope that helps a little? Also keep in mind some changes take place in a day...sometimes over a few days. Same value in the end as they all serve to set up high quality days to sit.
Thanks for you time Jeff! I’ll keep studying and use this to my advantage.
@@WilloughbyDroneTracking sounds good Logan, let me know what you think this Fall!
Thanks for the info Jeff! Side note, hope to see you hunt with the guys over at hunting Public this season.
Thanks a lot Patrick! I can't wait to get together with those guys and I can confirm I will be doing so for at least the first 4 days of the season, along with Dylan filing the hunt ☺️ Will be an awesome experience and I am truly honored...
I just had one question can you combine oats with clover
Oh man you sure can! Extremely good cover crop that does over the winter in most of the north 1/2 of the country. Plant at timing for the oats in the fall...with clover as the perennial base. I first used that back in 2000...used Brassica as a cover crop in 99 for clover, which works just as well. Also rye works you just have to mow it or spray it in the Spring. Great idea to frost seed more clover in the Spring if needed. Use your normal seeding rate for the Fall annual...none of those compete with the clover establishment. All Summer planted for Fall
What percentage of time do you feel that hack and squirt is the most effective method for whitetail habitat in the southern half of the Country. Especially when you have a lot of sweetgums, some hickory,etc.
Hey brother
Are you saying rather than girdle or hack and squirt cut them down outright so that you can take advantage of regenerative growth?
Yes definately Eric...cut down, timber harvest, hinge cut...sometimes a combination of all 3 in an area. That Regen equals side cover high stem count and then often, depending on tree species, much needed hardwood browse.
I'm interested in your opinion on wildlife biologist Dr Grant Woods at growing deer tv and his advice on hack and squirt? I watch his videos and basically it's the complete opposite of your advice. I'm working on my place and want to do the best practice.
Jeff what about beach trees? They aren't the best browse species and mostly a low value timber too. They are very prolific when cut and very difficult to remove thus preventing another more beneficial species to regenerate. Would you offer any opions on hack and squirt for them or even another way to deal with them in a positive way for deer? Video 301 on your list, no need to thank me, lol. Thanks for all your videos and info.
What playlist? My property is overrun with beech trees
If it's such a bad practice why do so many State conservation agencies use it?
It's just like everything else if you only do step one and Skip steps 2 through 6 you won't get the desired results it's not a bad practice people just don't follow through and over do it when walking through hacking and squirting.
Good question Nick! It is a large parcel practice, suitable for large acreage chunks of land. Paper company, state, federal lands. It is a science based method...not small parcel (500-1000 acres or less) or hunting based. Similar to buck movements based on large acreage and most TSI. Large chunk acreage can afford to throw away quality cover when they have 1000s of acres and in many cases more, to play with. The problem is when you take most science...buck movements, hack and squirt and CRP practices, you suck up valuable acreage that could otherwise be managed much more effectively. You can throw controlled burns in the mix in a lot of cases too. All viable, public land and commercial forest practices ..but very poor and even disastrous as the parcel size decreases. Very bad for small parcel landowners...there are just better, more intense and highly effective practices on a micro management scale. Landowners need to be aware...
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751.
Awesome! thanks. I guess my 40 acres needs a different route. Lucky I haven't touched much yet still deciding which way works best for my land.
Dr. Grant Woods has left the chat.
Hey Jeff, this doesn’t have to do with the video but what Sitka outfit and pattern do you recommend for say Nov 1 and on for the MI season. Haven’t bought a thick hunting outfit now in 10 years lol. Thanks
-Aaron
I'd love to see a video on the positive effects of controlled burns. We are seriously considering a controlled burn on our 160 acre parcel to get rid of tons of leaf litter (years of accumulation) and regenerate some better browse in the understory of some of our more open woodlands and glade areas.
What would be your advice for someone that has a heavy hemlock presence on a good portion of the property they own? We have 110 acres 15 field and real heavy hemlock on about 30 acres. We just had a timer harvest and the company that won the big didnt want the marked hemlock so they left it standing. Very dark woods still in a lot of the areas. I know hinging of hemlock work work but we are think of just dropping 1/2 to 1 acre pockets in several places that need the light. It's a dead zone for regen rt now
Where are the Exodus cameras made? Also, are the cell cameras working well for you? They sound well built.
Kellen I am not sure? The company is owned and operated by a couple of guys in Ohio. Very small company with exceptional customer service. I have played around with the Render very little but from what I have seen it is awesome! I love all of my Exodus trail cams and the 5 year warranty is hard to beat, among other things
Great video Jeff. I think people over value oaks in the deer woods. Property with a lot of spread out oaks make deer impossible to pattern early season. Oaks imo are responsible for the so called October lull. In my experience the lull is a product of deer stepping out of their beds and feeding on acorns until dark.
Thanks Rich! I think the lull is directly due to hunting pressure but either way I fully agree...way overrated. And limited, no cover...I personally wouldn't buy land full of oaks trees. There is so much better...
Acorns only last so long if there’s a great crop of acorns that is. Not every year there a great mast crop.
Great comment Randle!
Is this a response video to dr grant woods video saying hinge cutting is bad. And hack and squirt is the only way to go? I was so confused when he put that video out. And it almost influenced me to consider it as an option.
I’m so glad you posted this. So glad
You challenged it. This makes so much more sense.
Hi Nic, that is so good to hear those helped you out! You could have made some major mistakes. I have just seen so many hack and squirt fails, that I truly feel bad for folks. I have several client questions lately about hack and squirt and wanted to clear this up. I actually touched on this subject during the Winter in my Bad Science for Deer video. And of course I am constantly putting out videos about hinge cutting. Just another video crossed off the list of 300 to do ☺️
Whitetail Habitat Solutions
Thank you. Well this one was timely and needed. A lot of us like me follow multiple channels trying to learn and be better stewards of our land. And I was really confused by the recent post on growing deer conflicting my past thoughts on the matter. Obviously that’s why you received the many questions. It’s a controversial topic and I’m glad to have heard your response and opinions on the matter.
@@nicschaalma3508 thank you Nic I really appreciate that! Just trying to help as many hunters out as I can...
Same for me, I was planning to implement hack & squirt but that comment about the cracking sounds of dead trees losing limbs and the deer knowing it’s not a safe place to bed or browse is making me re evaluate.
Great content Jeff. I’m considering the purchase of 70 acres in Indiana that has been heavily timbered by a saw mill. Is it possible to over cut if I’m only looking for recreational deer habitat. I assume it would be like a clear cut.
What about emerald ash bore...how can I reach you
All depends on your long term goals. Lots of talking to say so little.
I'm in Kansas. What's your opinion on Locust trees? Planning to hack and squirt. Thoughts?
That's a great tree to remove if black...but man if honey locust I would leave 🙂
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 Mostly honey locust. Thanks for the response!
Unless you’re planting Oaks, Hickory, Beech, Chestnut 🌰 -All Nut trees.
Add in Conifers- you have a Win Win.
In Northern Climes. Cedars are great, very hard to establish because deer attack them into mid winter.
There are quite a few other RUclips deer Channels that promote the hack and squirt method I couldn't understand why you would want to lower the stem count on property and leave the bigger less valuable trees plus make a big mess and I finished all weather whitetail I'll never forget how many times a whitetail feeds in 24 hours hahaha thank you for writing such a good book
Ha...how many times do they feed, lol? I hope that book helps you shoot a great buck this season Rob! Really appreciate the feedback too...me either.
5 times lol In the last 2 or 3 years the knowledge I have gained from watching your videos reading your books and articles is some of the most valuable information I have ever gotten and like I've said before i couldn't thank you enough next on my list is to try to attended a seminar you speak at if you do them
@@robclinejr4085 thanks a lot Rob...well I appreciate that very much. I do not give very many seminars, but I will advertise on social media when I do for sure! Instagram and Facebook.
This is just sad. I’ve wanted to like Jeff’s channel but in a few recent episodes he’s just blatantly bashing whatever Grant Woods has talked about on growing deer that week. Grant just talked about hack and squirt vs hinge cut last week and here’s Jeff a week later saying that’s a stupid thing to do. You’re entitled to your opinion Jeff but don’t talk down to those that do things differently. I know you didn’t explicitly mention Dr. Grant but it’s obvious you’re referring to his practices in this video.
Why Cade ? Grants method may not be for wildlife but for timber production and forest.
I follow Jeff’s channel for improving my whitetail property. I’m not concerned one bit with timber production.
This video was huge for me. Grants video confused me and I’m sure others on the logic behind hinge cutting vs hack and squirt. This Cleared it up.
Grant only came in with one side. Don’t hinge cut. Hack and squirt only.
No. Each have thier place for the landowners desired goal.
Jeff cleared that up beautifully.
If you can’t see that then your mislead.
We don’t need you on this page anyway. See ya.
Actually Cade I am in the field on different client lands over 100 days per year. I keep a running total of over 300 blog and video ideas and I hit the topics that clients are asking questions about the most, at that time of year. I have zero time to watch or read anything. At all. This one of the biggest fails I see on clients lands, consistently. As far as the timing with Grant Woods videos...I don't watch them.but I just checked and that video followed multiple videos of mine that talked about hack and squirt fails in a bad deer science video...as well as recent hinge cutting. Not sure how you could say I was following Grant?
Just trying to help folks out with what I see every day, in the real world, on small parcels, around the country. If I differ from someone else...so be it, I only have respect for the truth and how much I can help people.
Not sure what else you would be referring to either for any other content? Anything I do is not copied..all original concepts and strategies. When I receive questions from clients, readers and viewers about habitat practices...I answer them with a level of experience that is likely unmatched. Just what I do and will continue to do so. If the truth hurts or offends, so be it.
Stick with Grant or whom ever else you follow...this channel is for real world whitetail solutions that work. I think Grant has a great channel and s great, scientific voice. High quality channel.
Again, I receive questions and concerns...and I create a video on those comments to help folks out. Real World truth...if you can't appreciate that Cade, there are plenty of other channels for you to find 😉
@@nicschaalma3508 thank you very much Nic, I knew this video would ruffle some feathers, but the truth hurts at times. That doesn't mean I will avoid the controversy just to shy away real world experience and truth.
Whitetail Habitat Solutions
It was what was needed to be said. You cleared up the thought process behind both. And you might have saved me and others as result... from making the mistake of trying it when our goals are whitetail habitat and not timber value.
Jeff has been talking about the benefits of hinge cutting for years vs. Hack and squirt. I only have been following Jeff for less than two years. However, I have been using similar methods such as those he describes for about a decade on my own. I am not going to argue against any PhD guy, but I know what works from my own experiences. I would rather hinge cut vs. Hack/squirt without a doubt. Sometimes I just select cut and remove the entire tree to allow sun promoting new growth. Most of the time new growth emerges from stumps. This is woody browse deer food for the winter. Also, on state property, particularly state game lands here in my state of PA, forests are managed for all wild life and areas are selected and cut to promoted regeneration from stumps. The result is one giant browse plot.