Fire Sanctuary, Forgettably Great - Dungeon Design in Zelda (Skyward Sword HD)
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- The Fire Sanctuary is a good dungeon, but ultimately it fails to stand out on its own. There are lots of cool moments, but in the end the dungeon is mostly forgettable.
Also the Mogmas just... won't... stop.... talking.
Special thanks / shoutout to the amazing dude know as @RMFH for providing me the red flame effect used in this video.
0:00 - Intro
0:35 - Before The Dungeon
4:47 - Dungeon Themes & Progression
25:18 - The Dungeon Boss
28:57 - Conclusion
#SkywardSwordHD #Zelda 
Игры
May I just say, as somebody who's currently studying game design as a profession, these videos feed my love for Zelda and level design. Your videos are always a joy to watch and I hope to see your channel grow in the future.
As fun as Girahim is to watch on screen, it's rather disappointing they gave up two temples for his boss fights. Skyview was an exception but this was their chance to make up for Scaldera in the Earth Temple and Tentalus from the previous dungeon. Could've easily traded one of the Imprisoned fights for Girahim and have an entirely original fight for the Fire Sanctuary. He's still decently fun to fight nonetheless.
+Henry Croney Disagree. Having Ghirahim in the first dungeon & the last dungeon before the final dungeon shook up the "expected" boss fights people would look for. He was the wake-up call boss on the 1st dungeon! Who DOES that?!
Then a harder version on the last part of the 2nd arc. Not only does it mix up the gameplay but it advances the story.
More Ghirahim is always a good thing not a bad thing. I'm GLAD they left it like that.
Yes, I agree whole heartily with your disappointment as I feel exactly the same way but I do think the Ghirahim encounters are good overall (could be more varied however) but would be better in places outside of dungeons with the exception of the first dungeon. I was expecting 'a proper dungeon boss' in The Fire Sanctuary so my expectations were of something large and menacing - perhaps a Giant Moldorm for a 3D Zelda Game or giant fire-breathing bird given the emphasis that this dungeon places on various types of birds in its ornamental features? After the disappointment of the Sandship Boss, I expected something better but that's just my opinion however it seems clear that other people feel the same way.
Ghirahim*
@jarlwhiterun7478 don’t be that guy
@@CaptBurgerson Two years ago?! You've come a long way since Ocarina of Time dungeon designs! Still loving the content dude!
I generally find Scrapper entertaining the rest of the time but I HATE the escort mission. And all the mogmas can burn in lava for all I care.
Hylian Translations in this Video:
18:25
New Item: Mogma Mitts
Similar to the Mole Mitts from Minish Cap, the Mogma Mitts are an upgrade to our Digging Mitts. They allow you to burrow underground in addition to the digging ability that you could already do.
26:21
Ghirahim, but angry
The Demon Lord Ghirahim. We already fought him back in Skyview Temple, but since then we have grown stronger and should be able to take him on! He’s not toying with you anymore, so be on your guard. He’s out for blood.
Maybe the dungeon could've benefitted from a small change of elemental theming to make it stand out more from the Earth Temple, such as, say, adding a snow-and-ice theme to the dungeon's lava-and-fire theme to create a classic fire-and-ice-themed dungeon (justified by presumably being located close to the summit of Eldin Volcano, where temperatures would've likely dropped below the freezing point of water), with not only traditional ice-themed elements like sliding block puzzles, snow that, like sand, could've been uncovered by the Dust Bellows, and ice-themed enemies like Freezards, and not only the fire-themed elements that were already present in the dungeon, such as lava rivers, lava spouts, and those fiery barriers that could've only been put out by quenching the frog statues with water fruits (though in the case of a fire-and-ice-themed dungeon, perhaps ice-themed fruits would've been used instead), but perhaps combinations of the two elements interacting with each other, such as, say, feeding dragon-faced statues with flaming-hot peppers to melt ice barriers, or pushing blocks of ice into the lava to create solid lava platforms, or diverting lava flows into ice to melt it, to name a few?
"Stun him to give you an opening to attack"
Attacks and misses. :)
Yup! 😂
@@CaptBurgerson I also liked that post-leap-of-faith face plant. The face-slide down the ramp before getting up was the icing on that painful cake.
From Skyview Temple to the Sandship, the dungeon have great design and make sure that every element has its purpose. Fire Sanctuary does that too, for the most part, such as the little piles of sand hinting at the Gust Bellows. So when there's a small exception to that, it shows, however unimportant that is in the great scheme of things. What I'm nitpicking about is the main riddle of the Sanctuary. The riddle is referenced three times: once at the beginning, once after rescuing the first Mogma (if I'm remembering correctly) and one final time by the stone tablet before the statues. The first time is the most meaningful one, because it explains how to solve it. Now, Skyward Sword is often criticized for being "too hand-holding", and while it wouldn't have been bad if they didn't mention the riddle at all and leave everything to the player, I wouldn't say it applies here. It's up to the player to make the connection between the two huge statues near the end and those mentioned by the Mogma. But if they wanted to give a hint, such hint should be accessible at any moment, not just once at the beginning, let alone when the actual puzzle is found near the end.
You may say I'm overanalyzing this, and you'd absolutely be right. Last time I overanalyzed a tiny instance of good design, this time I'm doing the same about questionable design
Perhaps the hint could've been given out after all of the Mogmas were rescued, instead of teasing it from the start of the dungeon?
That editing in the beginning though!!!!!!!!!!!
.....you gonna handle those, or what?!?! :P
Ahem....for the frog statues...you didn't do...Frog...? Omg, Capt, missed opportunity!!!!!!!! :P
I looooove the candle illusions!! And the poor chatty mogmas haha!
Amazing vid, as per the usual! I'm excited for the last dungeon vid!!
TOTALLY MISSED OPPORTUNITY FOR FROG 🐸
Glad you enjoyed Rin!
Am I the only one who noticed a trend in the names of the 4 mogmas found here?
Guld, Silva, Bronzi and Plats are similar to Gold, Silver, Bronze and Platinum. Thought it was cool since all 4 of them entered the Fire Sanctuary to find treasure.
My personal feeling about the Mogma in the fire sanctuary is that they paint a picture of the surface world that doesn't rely on the story of the protagonist to exist. The Mogma are interested in the fire sanctuary because of some legendary treasure, so it makes sense that we would encounter so many of them there. Since the Mogma assume you're there for the same reason, it makes sense that they would share there intel with you. It's been a while since I've played the game all the way through firsthand, so I can't say how invasive the text is even with that in mind, but I don't personally remember them being overly annoying (voice clips not withstanding since those are a matter of personal preference anyway). Just my two cents :)
i actually love the music in this dungeon. It really gives me a "you got stuff to do Like RIGHT NOW" Vibes for me
Personally, my only complaint with the Fire Sanctuary is that it felt very similar to the Earth Temple. Overall, I love the Fire Sanctuary for its length and its complexity. It is easily my favourite dungeon in the whole game.
Hey, I remembered to watch this one!! 🤪 Haha I love your opening sequence tho... On point 👌🏼 I ended up running around with the guardians active in the silent realm for 5 minutes or something lol... Got my pulse up alright, but it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be 😅 QUENCH FROGGIE THIRST Also Scrapper is super annoying... His character was funny for the first 5 minutes when I played this game for the first time. Now I hate him lol 😝 I really like how you can skewer the water pods! Also the sun motifs make me happy 😊 the frog statues are so weird!! Like my tongue is too dry, water it 😝 I think the music theme is kind of fun, and it helped me keep going easily because I was tapping my toes to it lol. The mogmas are definitely an annoying part of this temple that I found unnecessary. I like the magmanos though, they could have been a bit more aggressive/harder to get rid of, but I think their idea is solid 👍🏼 QUENCH FROGGIE'S THIRST
QUENCH THIRST 🐸
I enjoy that we have to hit the moldorm in the butt to kill them! It was very satisfying to me lol 😋 I like the statues, but I wish the riddle the mogma told was a little harder to decipher 😝 THE BOTTLE IS WORTH THE BACK-TRACK my favorite flamer 😍 Girahim! He's so funny lol and his supple skin is amazing 😜 I definitely like him too much. The clanging feel of landing a hit on Girahim is a great detail!! I didn't notice that before 😁 Is the master sword called that because Fi calls Link "Master"? 🤔 Another great video! I'm excited to see what you have coming next 😁👏🏼🎉
Why are you 6 days old?
@@gamingflow3603 supporters on Patreon and channel members get early access to new videos which is why you may see comments from before the date the video goes live.
Honestly I felt the Fire Sanctuary was like an extension of the Earth Temple
Excellent video again, sir.
Sorry I missed the most recent stream 😔
No need to apologize!! Glad you enjoyed :)
Man did this escort mission look irritating.
But this was a hella good video! I really loved the big open “central” room in this dungeon.
Having not played this dungeon in over a decade, I can honestly say I remember maybe 7% of it at best, so you are definitely right: literally not memorable.
I remember thinking in all my interactions with the Mogmas that I would rather be talking to a Goron in these fire/volcano contexts, likely because Gorons' dialogue is generally more simple/succinct.
I did like the open eyes/shut eyes falling puzzle despite the overkill of hints--mainly because the design of the statues themselves reminded me a lot of the Desert Temple in A Link to the Past.
Watching the Ghirahim battle so soon after watching your breakdown of the Sand Ship makes me think that Nintendo knew they had to make up for the lameness of Tentalus haha
Simultaneously excited for/wanting to save the last video...looking forward to your 2D Zelda dungeon breakdowns, in particular A Link to the Past!
Managed to actually catch this premier
Great videos
No u
@@CaptBurgerson great me*
i think that the two dungeon may have the same architecture on purpose. if the earth temple and the fire sanctuanry are both coming from the same old people, it would make sense to not be able to differentiate them that much.
In-universe yes that makes total sense but from a gameplay perspective it sadly makes it feel redundant
@@CaptBurgerson yes it is. but you did say that on the gameplay side, it wasnt similar right... or did i missed it. Because if the gameplay is not redundant, but the graphical side is redundant, in my mind, it means its coherent with the earth temple while also not being repetitive on a gameplay point of view.
@@charlestrudel8308 you’re right. The gameplay is mostly different from the Earth Temple. My reply here was more meaning the visual side of things so “gameplay” was a poor choice of words on my part.
I do really like the dungeon I just feel the aesthetic overshadows that greatness for many.
@@CaptBurgerson Well, in my mind, beside the dragon in the earth temple, the earth temple too wasnt that great on the visual either... I think both these dungeon are not as great as the other ones from the same game. so it does mean this whole side of the map is a bit less beautifull.
I had not played this game in a loooong time and I remembered that this dungeon to be the same than the earth dungeon. They could have differentiated it
Awesome sauce.
SPOILER FOR THE ENDGAME
I just realized why Ghirahim has such a different sound when you hit him. It isn't the sound of a sword hitting flesh, it's the sound of a sword hitting another sword.
I actually kinda liked the escort mission except for scrappers annoying stuff, I just really like the bow and I used it here alot
"Forgettably great"... yep.... definitely, especially coming after the masterclasses that are the Ancient Cistern and the Sandship, the Fire Sanctuary really falls flat despite being a very technically competent dungeon.
Mogma slander! Leave my homies alone! >:(
I’m sorry but they are very annoying
@@CaptBurgerson Completely disagree. I love their dialogue, which reminds me of New York mobsters, and their voicework really sells that to me.
Still, great work on these videos. They all have come out exceptionally well.
i'm gonna kms
Although it is linear it might the most rooms out of any dungeon in that game.
Different than you, I was humming this dungeon theme for weeks! It haunted me 😂 I liked it and that was mostly the only thing I liked. Skyward Sword dungeons mirror a lot of cultural influences. I think it would have been awesome to construct this dungeon similar to the great wall with a chinese influence. It reminded me of that the first time I saw it. Instead, this dungeon feels like it doesn't know what it wants to be. Its pure inconsistency and absolutely forgettable. I adore you for being so objective and still finding things which are good. To me, it fell flat on so many aspects...
@@SailorCheryl the first thing I thought when I saw this dungeon again in this video was that it felt like it had heavy Chinese influence on its design, and I wish they leaned into it more honestly
Most tedious stuff to do before the dungeon. That damn robot escort mission was just a pain in the ass.
This is my favorite Dungeon in the game.
Iam surprised, that you liked the bossfight. I also like the fights against ghirahim, but making him a dungeonboss robbs the dungeon of having a properly themed unique epic boss. He should have been used outside the dungeons.
I rember playing this game.... and i quit around this point as i really REALLY hate the silent realm thing as it's quite literally using stealth mechanics without it being a stealth game...
I can't believe this man slandered the best song in the game.
Why do you say LAAAHHH-va it's lava lol
Lol I’m Canadian, it’s how we pronounce things. 🙃
The Dungeon Theme Design just feels lazy and more or less a copy and paste job of The Earth Temple so I think this dungeon really struggles to be memorable as the video suggests. I struggle to remember what happened in this dungeon apart from giant lava hands, mole people and Ghirahim appears yet again... Perhaps this dungeon itself indicates an early decline in dungeon designing in Zelda Games specifically for 3D Games as this problem appears frequently in Breath of the Wild Dungeons. If dungeon design is overly repetitive with its theme design (fire design/water design or whatever) it loses its sense of being unique and because it isn't out of the ordinary or it fails to differentiate thematically/add something new which immerses the player in some way (includes some sort of game mechanic which provides player interest) it ceases to become memorable over time.
Strangely, in past Zelda Games, I always had the impression that Nintendo were very strategic to avoid this problem although I might have not been able to articulate my thoughts clearly on why this was a issue beyond finding it generally irritating but in their more recent series releases this seems to be a more common problem perhaps because of a number of reasons: Creating lengthy, immersive and exciting dungeons that is convincing to the player while using certain themes (fire, earth, water etc etc) can probably only be done a number of times before it gets boring; development time is most likely highly pressured and costly so 'standardising dungeons into a formula without much variation' is more easily reproduced under those conditions; financial issues whereby cutting costs is necessary which unfortunately affects the quality of the dungeon design and consumer utility of the overall finished product perhaps because of other focuses in the game design - the large-scale open world and making the physics engine compatible with it using those two things as examples (comparing The Fire Sanctuary to dungeons in Breath of the Wild)? Or Nintendo don't care about fan's constructive criticisms that they bother to change things?
The Giant Lava Hands were cool as an enemy, however I can't help but feel it would have been better as the dungeon boss given some creative ingenuity... The Mogma Mitts were a really cool dungeon item and much like the other dungeon items in this game, they followed a trend of being 'unique' to their respective dungeons. The dungeon boss much like the dungeon itself suffers from the problem of 'repetition' where it needed more variety and creative inventiveness. In terms of the skill involved, it definitely required more than the previous dungeon boss, however the boss's threat level was not as high as it should have been given that Ghirahim seemed hell bent on revenge after link ruined his plans... Definitely one of the more boring and uninspired dungeons in the game I think.
I definitely agree and talk at great length about the repetitiveness problem in this other video which you might enjoy:
ruclips.net/video/p3gHWMUifgo/видео.html
Thanks as usual for your great comment. Love to see it.
@@CaptBurgerson Thanks. Yes, I've watched your other video too and I agree with all your criticisms.
Simpper,I mean ,Scrapper is easily the worst part of Skyward Sword. At least Fi has the decency of pausing the game when she interrupt me to say something, Scrapper just cover the screen with his complaint while i'm trying to fight because of it's mistake
Probably the only video I've pressed the dislike button for. Oh well, your other videos are still great
Fully just curious, what did you dislike about this video?
@@CaptBurgerson I just got jaded by the omnipresent criticisms towards the dungeon. Many people treat it as if it was the first time a dungeon reused the same element as another, even though OOT did the same thing with Dodongo's Cavern and Fire Temple, PH did the same with Temple of Wind and Goron Temple (both being sand dungeons), and SS itself did it with thw two Timeshift dungeons.
Secondly, you gave too much flak to the hidden location of the Empty Bottle, yet also criticized how easily handed the Heart Piece is. Sometimes I don't know how you expect an extra collectable to be gathered in a dungeon, if at all. I actually wish more dungeons in the series had these surprise bonuses, because in most of them the only optional stuff chests give to you are just arrows, bombs and Rupees.
Make no mistake, I don't want to hate on the channel as a whole. I just disagree with the things you said in this video, but I like all the stuff from the others you've submitted so far. Believe it or not, there are a few channels I blacklisted wholesale from my recommendations list, because they've had so many scathing videos and with too many disagreeable opinions (Arlo and TheBitBlock in particular; I really can't stand them). But I really like your dungeon analysis videos, and the fact I didn't like one doesn't change that.
I appreciate your honesty and levelheadedness. I made this video some time ago, so it is possible that I was a little more critical of the dungeon then, compared to how I would be if I were to make the video now. I think, if I'm remembering correctly my train of thought when writing the script, that my big complaint about it's visual identity really comes down to that the level design is good, but that it gets overshadowed by that aesthetic, which is a shame for something that is more substantial to be overlooked because of what is ultimately superficial.
Either way, I don't expect everyone to always agree with everything I say. That would be unrealistic. My views are of course my views, and not objective truths, so it is totally okay if it doesn't jive with everyone. Still, I appreciate you taking the time to watch and explain your stance. Thanks!