Yeah its "working" in those -20c and colder temps, but the COP of the unit is likely close to 1.5 at that point. For a heat pump here in Manitoba to match the cost per BTU, of electricity vs NG, it needs to maintain a COP of 3.0. Factor in massive installation costs and they quickly don't make financial sense at all here. Now if your personal goal is to reduce your homes carbon emissions in a way that is more efficient than just pure electric heat (COP of 1.0) then sure a heat pump will do that for you, but it will be more expensive than NG heating.
NG forced air furnace cost “vs” Heat Pump electric power bill cost (in Alberta we do ‘not’ say Hydro bill) per month. Thus are you are saying that NG is cheaper (less expensive) than electricity per month to run.??
In Alberta with your electric and NG rates, a heat pump, strictly financially speaking, doesn't make sense. Your electricity rates are nearly 2x higher then Manitoba, yet your NG rates are roughly 30-40% cheaper. Simply put, unless your NG rates double, it will remain the cheapest way to heat your home there. @@royjohnson465
@@royjohnson465 yes, here in Manitoba it's hydro. Pretty much all of it. Electricity is much cheaper here than Alberta. Despite that, yes, it is less expensive to heat your home with natural gas than electricity here, and by a good margin.
COP depends on temperature because the heat pump has to work harder to extract the heat and the defrost cycles but you can't look at one day or a month you have to take it over a year. You can also use a heat pump for air cooling in the summer if you need. Some like to take the lowest temperatures, point and say see it doesn't work but they're missing the point. "Massive" installation costs is hyperbole at best. Federal and Provincial grants, without a proper strategy, are a waste of money because the conversion, especially on a mass scale, needs proper planning and protections for the consumer. How many days go below -20 or -30, where I live it can be as low as 0 or as high as 2-3 weeks in the year. One thing that's important is not be left holding the bag when refrigerants get abruptly phased out and no upgrade support.
Also,these heat pumps( air to air) are 3rd Gen.refrigerants ie.R410A which has ODP of zero but GWP high @ aprox.2,000. 4th Gen. refrigerants still have some GWP and flammability concerns as per automotive issues with HFO's.
I am a heating contractor in Canada living in Vancouver Island and we install lots of heat pumps and they are great but when customers are looking to replace their gas furnaces with a heat pump I will always let them know they are jeopardizing their comfort and the cost of heating is going to increase ..also if you live in another place in Canada with real winter you are crazy to switch out your high efficiency gas furnace to a heat pump
Heat pumps are great if you have cheap electricity and a newer house with great insulation. If you don’t your electricity bill will more that double. Where does electricity come from, coal and natural gas.
I do wish journalists would distinguish between air source and ground source heat pumps, which are two very different things. Air source types can extract heat from air and heat your home down to about minus 15C, depending on model. Ground source types work at all times in the coldest weather, as the ground has a limitless amount of heat to tap into. More money, of course, but that's because there is digging to do.
So with the unit running for long periods just to heat the home, this will dramatically reduce the life expectancy of the unit, not to mention the cost of electricity to run the unit and the electric back-up. The Hydro bills must be very high as electricity is not cheap anywhere in Canada except Quebec !!!
A heat pump *could* be a good value in some conditions as a supplement to forced-air or in-floor gas or fuel-oil heat with adequate public subsidies, but they're not a sufficient substitute in most parts of Canada. You can't rely on them to keep your house warm in extreme temperatures, and electricity prices are only rising as grid reliability deteriorates.
dual fual - heatpump + furnace is best in places that get extreme cold. the temperature at which a heatpump can keep up down to depends on size, not only whether it is cold climate style or not
Are they worth it in Ontario? Our electricity prices are no where near the electricity prices in Quebec. My in-laws had a heat pump in Quebec and replaced it with an air conditioner decades ago. Has anything changed?
We live in BC and have a relatively new heat pump system with electric backup. In December, January and February it is almost always running on electric backup, which is much more expensive than natural gas where we live. In addition to the cost issue, when our power goes out in the winter (2-3 times a year - usually due to a storm knocking down a tree onto a powerline) we have no heat!
The question remains, which is cheaper to run in Winnipeg, conventional gas or heat pump. That's what people want to know. Most cold weather installations need backup, as pointed out. But if the backup is electric, cost is extremely high. Plus there is significant doubts concerning present and future capacity for electrical generation and transmission. If you're in the north this is not a question of comfort but survival.
Sounds like a decent option but I'll stick with my radiant indoor heating. Costs half what the furnace cost me and heats the house no matter how cold it is outside.
The decision is EASY. If you are a green freak get a HP at a huge cost and you will feel good. If you realize that no matter what you do you will have NO effect of World C.C. then keep heating with whatever you are now using because it will Always be cheaper !!!
OMG!!! this guy is delirious!! Heat pumps are about 7% efficient when the temperatures go below 0C. To heat an average size house with electricity (including heat pumps) would cost more than $1,000 per month from early December to the end of February..... and that's only heating 1,000 sq ft it to 18C.
You are way, way off base here. Most air source heat pumps have a coefficient of performance (COP) of about 4.0 during mild weather, falling to about 2.5 at zero degrees Celcius. What's the COP of electric heat? Just 1.0 , at all times. At a COP of 2.5 you are using one unit of energy (electricity) to pump 2.5 units of heat into your house. It's a no-brainer. Those of us who are already doing it aren't particularly impressed with the 'it can't be done' crowd. You really need to read up on thermodynamics before you make a fool of yourself here.
Ok, you are way out to lunch on this one. Stop spreading lies and misinformation. They are very inefficient but not 7%, they act like a low temperature electric heater at that point, which is expensive.
Yes air source heat pumps don't work well past -15 and don't really work at all past -25 (some claim -30). Yes in ground systems seem to be good to about -35, but an in ground system is going to cost you around 45,000 dollars on a rural property (much more if your in a dense urban area assuming you can even do it). 45k buys a lot of natural gas, and if you think the 45k ground system is a once off cost plus a little bit of electricity your going to be in for a nasty surprise. Repairs on compressors or god forbid a pipe failure can easily cost tens of thousands of dollars. For context a high efficiency gas furnace will run you less than 2-3k including install.
You heard it here from the horses mouth.. you have to use an alternative 'heat source' when it gets too cold.. So not every day in Jan. Feb. March like he wants you to believe are always -30 or -40. Many are. But sometimes you might get a range where a heat-pump will work. So its unreliable. And it sounds like it runs constantly so I question its energy cost.
@@Mooseflowsif the app picks which is cheaper then it should always pick natural gas. It’s cheap, it’s clean, and it’s not a fossil fuel. The powers that be will have to drive up the cost of natural gas by quite a bit before heat pumps will ever be able to compete. The guy in this video promoting heat pumps in cold climates is blowing smoke. Don’t fall for it.
My house has a heat pump system and it's great when it's not super cold. But don't make statements like you'll replace your gas furnace because you'll still need that as a backup. The heat pump works with your traditional system you'll need both systems so if your furnace is bad you'll need to fix or replace it no matter if you get a heat pump.
Ok, here we go. Don't listen to most people or commenters including ME. Go and find out this information from reputable people in this industry. Geothermal heat pumps are the best but if you want the best you will pay for it up front. It will heat and cool your home no matter how hot or COLD it is outside PERIOD. Everyone needs to educate themselves and don't listen to friends, neighbors, reporters, politicians, oil and gas companies!!! This stuff is better it WORKS!!! BUT DON'T LISTEN TO ME!!!
For areas of Canada that regularly get down to -25C in the winter, the only type of heat pumps that would work are GEOTHERMAL heat pumps, where you exchange heat with the ground water, not with the outdoor air. But installing one of those cost around $40,000 each.
I am a mechanical Engineer with a Certified Energy Manager designation. I am installing an air to air heat Pump in Northern Ontario. Manitoba Hydro rates them with a COP of 2.2 average over a year. Mine is rated to -30. I have electric heat to help out at Temps below -20. Since the coldest times are at night during Ontario low electricity prices not a problem. My Dad ran an air to air heat pump back in 1980 in Manitoba. Technology is proven for Canadian winter but must be supplemented in colder Temps.
My delivery, storage or other expenses for gas are greater than my consumption. The “climate tax” also adds a fair amount to my bill. If a heat pump will not heat my home during a typical NW Ontario winter, I still need to rely on gas. Those charges are still there, from my perspective, this seems like a very minimal savings.
As an Engineer specializing in Energy and in the process of installing an air source heat pump in NW Ontario, heat pumps are part of the solution. Manitoba Hydro rates them as a coefficient of performane as 2.2 vs a geothermal heat of about 3 average overca year. This means it puts out 2.2 watts of heat for 1 watt electricity in. My Dad installed one in 1979 with electric heat backup. The same is today, with less heat output below -20. Yes they work with a backup heat source.
I have a heat pump and a forced air electric furnace. The heat pump will work to about -9 or so then I have to turn the furnace on. I try to use the heat pump as much as I can and it all depends on the temperature outside on how much I use it. My HVAC guy said after -9 or thereabouts the heat pump will work hard and said you would be better off using the furnace.
Geothermal heat pumps should work in minus 50, the ones in this video is all based on air compression. Geothermal heat is pretty constant using glycol as coolant which can help in heat transfer. Geothermal system will probably add another $30000 to installation.
I live on Vancouver Island. I just got rid of our Heat Pump and bought a new Gas Furnace. I'm so happy that I did that. Our house is toast warm now and I don't have to listen to that damn heat pump anymore. It always sounded like a jet airplane getting ready for takeoff every time it would run. In my opinion, don't waste your money on a heat pump. The only thing they heat up... is your electric bill...
But how much are you paying for your winter bills. I'm in Gatineau Ottawa, and gazifere is so expensive. I wanted to get a nre gas furnace in April, but they are banning them. So I need to think what is best.
@@theybanthetruth4955 gas is only expensive because of Trudeau and his damn Liberals. Even with the carbon tax which makes up to almost 1/4 of my bill, my gas bill is about 80.00 per month in the winter and zero in the summer. Our home is also always warm and toasty. Hope you find the right thing that works for you. Cheers from the West Coast and have a very Merry Christmas 🎅
A furnace costs $3900 installed and can heat my house from 0C down to -60C day in and day out for 7 months of the year. A heat pump costs $20000+ installed and won’t work below -20 and needs a back up which means you’ll still have a secondary heat source you have to maintenance and operate…. Global warming, climate change, out of touch disease or whatever bullshit myth you believe in. I’m keeping what works for me! If the furnace gets to expensive I’ll put in a woodstove and clear cut thousands of trees to burn when I’m home and let the furnace do the work at night and when I’m gone!
Huh? Where do you get the 20 k? You can get an air source for 5-6 k. They do have very low efficiencies but in order to have good discussions about the subject it does not help when throw misinformation.
Beware all of you in the Maritime provinces being enticed to install heat pumps. You will need a back up source of heating. If a great number of residences install heat pumps that rely on electric heating strips for back up ,your electric grid will face a great demand. Is your electric grid capable of that demand? How much will that cost?
I'll stick with natural gas. It's plentiful, reliable, clean and it's domestic. Thank you oilfield workers. Thankfully one day soon this country will have an adult in charge again.
Good enough nearly every month ? In the the uk ( in winter )i use 50 to 60 kwh per day gas energy . I understand at low? temp ? That the efficeny of a heat pump is around 300 % trying to get water temp to 60c ( i actually run at 75c in winter) . This would cost £4.20 in gas , £600 in electric (300%efficency) £5.40 .and £16.20 if i was to use straight electric . Gas boiler installation is also way cheaper in uk than heat pumps . Heat pumps seems like a many compromise system
Whole house heat pump utilizing existing ducted delivery are extremely cost prohibitive even factoring long term payback if you are to have VFD capability for outdoor and indoor components which at least get them close to working in minus 40 Deg . * think Mitsubishi mini ductless .
The heat pump runs just fine yet the efficiencies are thrown out the window when temps drop. Like electric vehicles, heat pump are only as efficient as the geographical location they operate in. If you are going heat pump in a cold climate, I would highly recommend geothermal heat pumps instead.
Are we paying for the wall that’s being built to keep all of the pollution away from the country’s that aren’t cutting down on pollution. Answers from gov, and environment. Allowed as well.
Japanese has just finished another 650MW coal fired power station They started a series of coal fired power stations in 2011 They buy their coal from Australia which has banned the firing of coal because of their ethics But their ethics do not forbid the selling of coal for profit The profits go to the government When the people are paying more
Step 1.. Proper insulation. Without step 1 any source of heat or cooling is a waste. Our heatpump works great amd we purposly bought our housr beacuse of the way it was built and the fact that no gas or oil lines included.
See that's a problem. You should design a machine that can handle those extreme temperatures. Because even in ontario. It gets very cold and has gotten down to 30 below many times. If it can't handle that..that's no good.
I dont understand why make your hydro go up when ngas is cheaper my hydro bill $500 say electric heat is not a better option my ngas bill is $50 but it only for hot water
heat pumps are great, until the electricity grid is overloaded by all the Heat Pumps and EV chargers and now u have no heat in the dead of winter. I'd buy one if I had faith that the electrical grid was ganna be able to keep up with the coming demand for electricity. they wont. they is a catastrophic lack of investment in power generation.
I have an old furnace in a house I purchased, last year. I wanted to buy a new efficient one as the bi's are ridiculous..however they say new furnace sales will be banned in 2024..so now I have ro consider heat pump or electricity. Electricity is so expensive. However I never liked the gas company always walking through my garden ever month to read my meter, even when I am on vacation out of town, as if they own my home. Some of them ate very aggressive, jumping the fence and removing my padlock, even when I had them shut off the gas.
@@stoneyswolf Gatineau Ottawa, I'm just 7 minutes from Ottawa Bridge. Gazifere are the supplier of gas, I don't like them, they like to hop the fence whenever they want even when the gas is shut off.
I have used a "Heat Pump" for (25) years to heat my swimming pool. The (%) of efficiency was determined by the outside temperature. Higher the temperature, more the (%) efficiency. The newer more modern efficient heat pumps will now work in much colder weather, but as it gets colder, the (%) efficiency will start dropping. A "Heat Pump" opertes on [240 VAC] that draws a lot of voltage/amps/meter --> kilowatts. TEST: --> [Winter].. (#1) Heat Pump --> operating. (#2) Look at your electric meter and see how fast it is operating. (#3) Heat Pump --> turned off. (#4) Look again at your electric meter and see how slow it is operating.
In southwestern Ontario we rarely see temperatures below -20 on the coldest day of the year. It may get to -25 once every 5 years. A modern cold climate heat pump can provide 100% of your heating where I live. An electric resistance element can cover the extreme days below -25C.
Where's the electricity coming from, and what load is it displacing? If we assume that at -30 the electric grid is already at maximum, chances are the additional electricity is not coming from renewable resources, but from natural gas (or maybe coal). Since the best a natural gas generator can do is about 50% thermal efficiency, 50% of the heat in the natural gas is vented to the atmosphere at the generation plant. That means a heat pump has to be 200% efficient just to break even on a CO2 basis with a natural gas heater. No heat pump is running anywhere near 200% efficient when it's cold outside. The efficiency of a heat pump decreases the larger the temperature differential. Heat pumps are just another scam like all the other ones the electric companies are pulling on us. After they sell you that, they'll sell you some solar panels to run your heat pump, and pretend they generate a meaningful amount of power in January, which they don't. All winter long you've still got to get your power from the grid whether you have solar or not. And that means the utility gets to have a gas cogen on standby, and charge huge rates when it's running, and standby fees when it's not.
Global warms & cools down Climate Change Daily You will cuss heat pumps minus an electric back up And you will cuss an all electric heat source during all too often dangerously cold weather grid down occurrences. Be wise;
Typical distorted presentation. Their discussion is actually referencing a hybrid heat pump. As the fellow says, a heat pump can provide heat for many months, especially June through August. Most months, and especially Dec through March, an air source unit utilizes an additional heat source, e.g.,oil, gas, or electric, which provides the needed heat.
You folks need to see a proctologist and get your head out of there. These do need keep up on a very cold day/days with out back up. They need a lot of energy to run, ya electricity, there’s a small carbon foot print. Copper and aluminum power lines, all those unsightly transmission lines and towers that ruin the landscape. Oh don’t forget about the flooded lands the those 0 carbon foot print dams take up, all that dirty energy to build the dams. Hey these units have their places but in the northern part of most provinces you might as well forget it, I’ve been in Sedona, AZ and a heat pump didn’t get to 65F. Yes they have been improving but would you like your energy bill after running your dryer for 14 hours a day for 26 days out of the month. That’s the cost and the carbon foot print for these is not 0.
Yeah its "working" in those -20c and colder temps, but the COP of the unit is likely close to 1.5 at that point. For a heat pump here in Manitoba to match the cost per BTU, of electricity vs NG, it needs to maintain a COP of 3.0. Factor in massive installation costs and they quickly don't make financial sense at all here. Now if your personal goal is to reduce your homes carbon emissions in a way that is more efficient than just pure electric heat (COP of 1.0) then sure a heat pump will do that for you, but it will be more expensive than NG heating.
NG forced air furnace cost “vs” Heat Pump electric power bill cost (in Alberta we do ‘not’ say Hydro bill) per month. Thus are you are saying that NG is cheaper (less expensive) than electricity per month to run.??
In Alberta with your electric and NG rates, a heat pump, strictly financially speaking, doesn't make sense. Your electricity rates are nearly 2x higher then Manitoba, yet your NG rates are roughly 30-40% cheaper. Simply put, unless your NG rates double, it will remain the cheapest way to heat your home there. @@royjohnson465
@@royjohnson465 yes, here in Manitoba it's hydro. Pretty much all of it. Electricity is much cheaper here than Alberta. Despite that, yes, it is less expensive to heat your home with natural gas than electricity here, and by a good margin.
COP depends on temperature because the heat pump has to work harder to extract the heat and the defrost cycles but you can't look at one day or a month you have to take it over a year. You can also use a heat pump for air cooling in the summer if you need. Some like to take the lowest temperatures, point and say see it doesn't work but they're missing the point. "Massive" installation costs is hyperbole at best. Federal and Provincial grants, without a proper strategy, are a waste of money because the conversion, especially on a mass scale, needs proper planning and protections for the consumer. How many days go below -20 or -30, where I live it can be as low as 0 or as high as 2-3 weeks in the year. One thing that's important is not be left holding the bag when refrigerants get abruptly phased out and no upgrade support.
Also,these heat pumps( air to air) are 3rd Gen.refrigerants ie.R410A which has ODP of zero but GWP high @ aprox.2,000. 4th Gen. refrigerants still have some GWP and flammability concerns as per automotive issues with HFO's.
I am a heating contractor in Canada living in Vancouver Island and we install lots of heat pumps and they are great but when customers are looking to replace their gas furnaces with a heat pump I will always let them know they are jeopardizing their comfort and the cost of heating is going to increase ..also if you live in another place in Canada with real winter you are crazy to switch out your high efficiency gas furnace to a heat pump
Heat pumps are great if you have cheap electricity and a newer house with great insulation. If you don’t your electricity bill will more that double. Where does electricity come from, coal and natural gas.
Well a lot of electricity is form hydro in some provinces...... But Sask and Ab and some maritimes.... you are correct for sure.
Mostly hydro.
Hopefully Canada can do much more hydro in the next decade.
We have nukes in Ontario...
wind and solar @@georgesmiley1474
I do wish journalists would distinguish between air source and ground source heat pumps, which are two very different things. Air source types can extract heat from air and heat your home down to about minus 15C, depending on model. Ground source types work at all times in the coldest weather, as the ground has a limitless amount of heat to tap into. More money, of course, but that's because there is digging to do.
Right so ground source heat pumps are basically excluded from urban situations.
So with the unit running for long periods just to heat the home, this will dramatically reduce the life expectancy of the unit, not to mention the cost of electricity to run the unit and the electric back-up. The Hydro bills must be very high as electricity is not cheap anywhere in Canada except Quebec !!!
A heat pump *could* be a good value in some conditions as a supplement to forced-air or in-floor gas or fuel-oil heat with adequate public subsidies, but they're not a sufficient substitute in most parts of Canada.
You can't rely on them to keep your house warm in extreme temperatures, and electricity prices are only rising as grid reliability deteriorates.
The older ones were not very good below -15 but the newer ones are good until -30 to -35
dual fual - heatpump + furnace is best in places that get extreme cold. the temperature at which a heatpump can keep up down to depends on size, not only whether it is cold climate style or not
The people in government pushing heat pumps are also causing electric rates to go up.
Are they worth it in Ontario? Our electricity prices are no where near the electricity prices in Quebec. My in-laws had a heat pump in Quebec and replaced it with an air conditioner decades ago. Has anything changed?
Heat pumps run constantly.
We live in BC and have a relatively new heat pump system with electric backup. In December, January and February it is almost always running on electric backup, which is much more expensive than natural gas where we live. In addition to the cost issue, when our power goes out in the winter (2-3 times a year - usually due to a storm knocking down a tree onto a powerline) we have no heat!
ALMOST every month if the year is not acceptable!!!
who wants heating in the winter anyway? just make up for it in the summer when the pump can run at low cost.
Electricity is very expensive in canadas north and the still requires gas in negative temperatures
The question remains, which is cheaper to run in Winnipeg, conventional gas or heat pump. That's what people want to know. Most cold weather installations need backup, as pointed out. But if the backup is electric, cost is extremely high. Plus there is significant doubts concerning present and future capacity for electrical generation and transmission. If you're in the north this is not a question of comfort but survival.
This video suggests getting a backup heater for the outer unit.
Sounds like a decent option but I'll stick with my radiant indoor heating. Costs half what the furnace cost me and heats the house no matter how cold it is outside.
So you need two systems to heat your house, or you freeze. And better hope the grid can handle it; guess what it can't.
I am considering but it's hard to make a decision.
The decision is EASY. If you are a green freak get a HP at a huge cost and you will feel good. If you realize that no matter what you do you will have NO effect of World C.C. then keep heating with whatever you are now using because it will Always be cheaper !!!
OMG!!! this guy is delirious!! Heat pumps are about 7% efficient when the temperatures go below 0C. To heat an average size house with electricity (including heat pumps) would cost more than $1,000 per month from early December to the end of February..... and that's only heating 1,000 sq ft it to 18C.
You are way, way off base here. Most air source heat pumps have a coefficient of performance (COP) of about 4.0 during mild weather, falling to about 2.5 at zero degrees Celcius. What's the COP of electric heat? Just 1.0 , at all times. At a COP of 2.5 you are using one unit of energy (electricity) to pump 2.5 units of heat into your house. It's a no-brainer. Those of us who are already doing it aren't particularly impressed with the 'it can't be done' crowd. You really need to read up on thermodynamics before you make a fool of yourself here.
What's you winter like? Do you get -30 weeks?
Ok, you are way out to lunch on this one. Stop spreading lies and misinformation. They are very inefficient but not 7%, they act like a low temperature electric heater at that point, which is expensive.
Yes air source heat pumps don't work well past -15 and don't really work at all past -25 (some claim -30). Yes in ground systems seem to be good to about -35, but an in ground system is going to cost you around 45,000 dollars on a rural property (much more if your in a dense urban area assuming you can even do it). 45k buys a lot of natural gas, and if you think the 45k ground system is a once off cost plus a little bit of electricity your going to be in for a nasty surprise. Repairs on compressors or god forbid a pipe failure can easily cost tens of thousands of dollars. For context a high efficiency gas furnace will run you less than 2-3k including install.
You heard it here from the horses mouth.. you have to use an alternative 'heat source' when it gets too cold..
So not every day in Jan. Feb. March like he wants you to believe are always -30 or -40. Many are. But sometimes you might get a range where a heat-pump will work.
So its unreliable. And it sounds like it runs constantly so I question its energy cost.
Yeah I want my heat the most reliable at -40. It doesn't happen every day in Edmonton but my gas furnace works every day not just the warmer ones.
U can run hybrid. The app will determine what’s cheaper
@@Mooseflowsif the app picks which is cheaper then it should always pick natural gas. It’s cheap, it’s clean, and it’s not a fossil fuel. The powers that be will have to drive up the cost of natural gas by quite a bit before heat pumps will ever be able to compete. The guy in this video promoting heat pumps in cold climates is blowing smoke. Don’t fall for it.
My house has a heat pump system and it's great when it's not super cold. But don't make statements like you'll replace your gas furnace because you'll still need that as a backup. The heat pump works with your traditional system you'll need both systems so if your furnace is bad you'll need to fix or replace it no matter if you get a heat pump.
Ok, here we go. Don't listen to most people or commenters including ME. Go and find out this information from reputable people in this industry. Geothermal heat pumps are the best but if you want the best you will pay for it up front. It will heat and cool your home no matter how hot or COLD it is outside PERIOD. Everyone needs to educate themselves and don't listen to friends, neighbors, reporters, politicians, oil and gas companies!!! This stuff is better it WORKS!!! BUT DON'T LISTEN TO ME!!!
For areas of Canada that regularly get down to -25C in the winter, the only type of heat pumps that would work are GEOTHERMAL heat pumps, where you exchange heat with the ground water, not with the outdoor air. But installing one of those cost around $40,000 each.
Of course the government of Canada will pay for everyone to purchase and install one.
Exactly
Your hydrobill will go way up since geothermal requires pumps to constantly move water through the system.
I am a mechanical Engineer with a Certified Energy Manager designation. I am installing an air to air heat Pump in Northern Ontario. Manitoba Hydro rates them with a COP of 2.2 average over a year. Mine is rated to -30. I have electric heat to help out at Temps below -20. Since the coldest times are at night during Ontario low electricity prices not a problem. My Dad ran an air to air heat pump back in 1980 in Manitoba. Technology is proven for Canadian winter but must be supplemented in colder Temps.
Big deal
My delivery, storage or other expenses for gas are greater than my consumption. The “climate tax” also adds a fair amount to my bill. If a heat pump will not heat my home during a typical NW Ontario winter, I still need to rely on gas. Those charges are still there, from my perspective, this seems like a very minimal savings.
I never thought about that. You get those monthly delivery charges and other fees when you are not even using any gas!!!!!!!!
Correct. And they are made up by the energy companies. It should be mandatory to have the cost only calculated per usage.
As an Engineer specializing in Energy and in the process of installing an air source heat pump in NW Ontario, heat pumps are part of the solution. Manitoba Hydro rates them as a coefficient of performane as 2.2 vs a geothermal heat of about 3 average overca year. This means it puts out 2.2 watts of heat for 1 watt electricity in. My Dad installed one in 1979 with electric heat backup. The same is today, with less heat output below -20. Yes they work with a backup heat source.
How is it any good when you need a back up source ???
What happens when the power goes out for 2 weeks in Atlantic Canada? You freeze, that’s what happens! Still need backups to electrical heat.
My furnace is gas. If the power went out here (MB) for 2 weeks in the winter, I'd be doomed, like most people.
@@vicfak3915 Exactly. Gas furnaces also need electricity. Blower motor, inducer motor, circuit board...
@@vicfak3915 Install a whole house gas powered generator. Problem solved.
I have a heat pump and a forced air electric furnace. The heat pump will work to about -9 or so then I have to turn the furnace on. I try to use the heat pump as much as I can and it all depends on the temperature outside on how much I use it. My HVAC guy said after -9 or thereabouts the heat pump will work hard and said you would be better off using the furnace.
Geothermal heat pumps should work in minus 50, the ones in this video is all based on air compression. Geothermal heat is pretty constant using glycol as coolant which can help in heat transfer. Geothermal system will probably add another $30000 to installation.
City dwellers are excluded from using geothermal because of small lot size and municipal restriction.
I live on Vancouver Island. I just got rid of our Heat Pump and bought a new Gas Furnace. I'm so happy that I did that. Our house is toast warm now and I don't have to listen to that damn heat pump anymore. It always sounded like a jet airplane getting ready for takeoff every time it would run. In my opinion, don't waste your money on a heat pump. The only thing they heat up... is your electric bill...
But how much are you paying for your winter bills.
I'm in Gatineau Ottawa, and gazifere is so expensive.
I wanted to get a nre gas furnace in April, but they are banning them.
So I need to think what is best.
@@theybanthetruth4955 gas is only expensive because of Trudeau and his damn Liberals. Even with the carbon tax which makes up to almost 1/4 of my bill, my gas bill is about 80.00 per month in the winter and zero in the summer. Our home is also always warm and toasty. Hope you find the right thing that works for you. Cheers from the West Coast and have a very Merry Christmas 🎅
Bs
@@user-ss8dk2bl1i buy whatever works for you BS. I will stick to my gas furnace. Give Trudeau's ass a kiss while you are down on your knees.😂
Do you still use the heat pump for cooling? And if not what did you replace it with.
DIdnt explain of what happens when you cant use a heat pump? So you have a regular furnace as well? Sorry a bit of confusion.
Right on - they can hear our houses almost every month of the year !!!
A furnace costs $3900 installed and can heat my house from 0C down to -60C day in and day out for 7 months of the year. A heat pump costs $20000+ installed and won’t work below -20 and needs a back up which means you’ll still have a secondary heat source you have to maintenance and operate…. Global warming, climate change, out of touch disease or whatever bullshit myth you believe in. I’m keeping what works for me! If the furnace gets to expensive I’ll put in a woodstove and clear cut thousands of trees to burn when I’m home and let the furnace do the work at night and when I’m gone!
Huh? Where do you get the 20 k? You can get an air source for 5-6 k. They do have very low efficiencies but in order to have good discussions about the subject it does not help when throw misinformation.
Beware all of you in the Maritime provinces being enticed to install heat pumps. You will need a back up source of heating. If a great number of residences install heat pumps that rely on electric heating strips for back up ,your electric grid will face a great demand. Is your electric grid capable of that demand? How much will that cost?
I'll stick with natural gas. It's plentiful, reliable, clean and it's domestic. Thank you oilfield workers. Thankfully one day soon this country will have an adult in charge again.
I guess you like to waste your money then. Must be nice.
@@frasertones8519 try your heat pump at -40. Talk to me then.
Good enough nearly every month ? In the the uk ( in winter )i use 50 to 60 kwh per day gas energy . I understand at low? temp ? That the efficeny of a heat pump is around 300 % trying to get water temp to 60c ( i actually run at 75c in winter) . This would cost £4.20 in gas , £600 in electric (300%efficency) £5.40 .and £16.20 if i was to use straight electric . Gas boiler installation is also way cheaper in uk than heat pumps . Heat pumps seems like a many compromise system
No Can Heat Pumps Handle Canada’s Coldest
Stupid to put your heater outside in the winter. So much bad information.
Just use electrical heat .
Just empty your wallet each month.
Whole house heat pump utilizing existing ducted delivery are extremely cost prohibitive even factoring long term payback if you are to have VFD capability for outdoor and indoor components which at least get them close to working in minus 40 Deg . * think Mitsubishi mini ductless .
my Gas bill for a year is $ 2,600, two people, my Electric is $1,200, we are switching to heat pump
The heat pump runs just fine yet the efficiencies are thrown out the window when temps drop. Like electric vehicles, heat pump are only as efficient as the geographical location they operate in. If you are going heat pump in a cold climate, I would highly recommend geothermal heat pumps instead.
heat pumps are very commonly used in Norway
heat pumps do not produce less pollution, it just displaces it to the electricity net.
But you still need a furnace for back up?
The answer is yes if you are a polar bear and no if you are a human
Are we paying for the wall that’s being built to keep all of the pollution away from the country’s that aren’t cutting down on pollution. Answers from gov, and environment. Allowed as well.
Japanese has just finished another 650MW coal fired power station
They started a series of coal fired power stations in 2011
They buy their coal from Australia which has banned the firing of coal because of their ethics
But their ethics do not forbid the selling of coal for profit
The profits go to the government
When the people are paying more
It's almost minus frickin 40 here in Southern Alberta right now.
Don't give me that bullshit that a heat pump is the way to go.
Strange, as heat pumps are preferred in cold Norway.
Step 1.. Proper insulation. Without step 1 any source of heat or cooling is a waste. Our heatpump works great amd we purposly bought our housr beacuse of the way it was built and the fact that no gas or oil lines included.
Yes but electricity is cheaper where this guy is and how much more energy is it using on those -30c days where it's acting as an elteic heater?
But a furnace is still required as a backup. Electricity isn't cheap.
Minus 50 and keeping a house at minus 35 and rolling blackout is not healthy or safe.
See that's a problem. You should design a machine that can handle those extreme temperatures. Because even in ontario. It gets very cold and has gotten down to 30 below many times. If it can't handle that..that's no good.
I dont understand why make your hydro go up when ngas is cheaper my hydro bill $500 say electric heat is not a better option my ngas bill is $50 but it only for hot water
So you replace you gas bill with increase in electric bill. It is not like government is giving us electricity for free. Lol
Trudeau says they're good. Thats all I need to know
heat pumps are great, until the electricity grid is overloaded by all the Heat Pumps and EV chargers and now u have no heat in the dead of winter.
I'd buy one if I had faith that the electrical grid was ganna be able to keep up with the coming demand for electricity. they wont. they is a catastrophic lack of investment in power generation.
Heat pumps have to get power from somewhere. Not everyone has hydro power.
And there hasn't been "global warming" for decades.
I have an old furnace in a house I purchased, last year. I wanted to buy a new efficient one as the bi's are ridiculous..however they say new furnace sales will be banned in 2024..so now I have ro consider heat pump or electricity. Electricity is so expensive.
However I never liked the gas company always walking through my garden ever month to read my meter, even when I am on vacation out of town, as if they own my home.
Some of them ate very aggressive, jumping the fence and removing my padlock, even when I had them shut off the gas.
Where do you live they'll pass laws so you can't survive in the winter?
@@stoneyswolf Gatineau Ottawa, I'm just 7 minutes from Ottawa Bridge.
Gazifere are the supplier of gas, I don't like them, they like to hop the fence whenever they want even when the gas is shut off.
This seems like propaganda
I have used a "Heat Pump" for (25) years to heat my swimming pool.
The (%) of efficiency was determined by the outside temperature.
Higher the temperature, more the (%) efficiency.
The newer more modern efficient heat pumps will now work in much colder weather,
but as it gets colder, the (%) efficiency will start dropping.
A "Heat Pump" opertes on [240 VAC] that draws a lot of voltage/amps/meter --> kilowatts.
TEST: --> [Winter]..
(#1)
Heat Pump --> operating.
(#2)
Look at your electric meter and see how fast it is operating.
(#3)
Heat Pump --> turned off.
(#4)
Look again at your electric meter and see how slow it is operating.
Electricity is the new crude. wont be "cheaper" for long.
In southwestern Ontario we rarely see temperatures below -20 on the coldest day of the year. It may get to -25 once every 5 years. A modern cold climate heat pump can provide 100% of your heating where I live. An electric resistance element can cover the extreme days below -25C.
Where's the electricity coming from, and what load is it displacing? If we assume that at -30 the electric grid is already at maximum, chances are the additional electricity is not coming from renewable resources, but from natural gas (or maybe coal). Since the best a natural gas generator can do is about 50% thermal efficiency, 50% of the heat in the natural gas is vented to the atmosphere at the generation plant. That means a heat pump has to be 200% efficient just to break even on a CO2 basis with a natural gas heater. No heat pump is running anywhere near 200% efficient when it's cold outside. The efficiency of a heat pump decreases the larger the temperature differential.
Heat pumps are just another scam like all the other ones the electric companies are pulling on us. After they sell you that, they'll sell you some solar panels to run your heat pump, and pretend they generate a meaningful amount of power in January, which they don't. All winter long you've still got to get your power from the grid whether you have solar or not. And that means the utility gets to have a gas cogen on standby, and charge huge rates when it's running, and standby fees when it's not.
Lol -5 you might get adequate heat. Anything below it’s a waste of money. They don’t work well
just NOT TRUE,,,,,, STOP THE LYING.
Global warms & cools down
Climate Change Daily
You will cuss heat pumps minus an electric back up
And you will cuss an all electric heat source during all too often dangerously cold weather grid down occurrences.
Be wise;
lies
Typical distorted presentation. Their discussion is actually referencing a hybrid heat pump. As the fellow says, a heat pump can provide heat for many months, especially June through August. Most months, and especially Dec through March, an air source unit utilizes an additional heat source, e.g.,oil, gas, or electric, which provides the needed heat.
Rediculous! You need TWO heat sources when it gets cold TWO, because a heat pump ALONE wont cut it. What a waste.
Global warming is a joke what would woody heat gas and oil it gets the job done when it’s cold
RIP Atlantic power grid
Another reason why; "build back better"! That includes the "grid"!
Lol
😂😂😂
Global warming propaganda... 🥶
Uneducated commie-red; cap, dupe!
You folks need to see a proctologist and get your head out of there. These do need keep up on a very cold day/days with out back up. They need a lot of energy to run, ya electricity, there’s a small carbon foot print. Copper and aluminum power lines, all those unsightly transmission lines and towers that ruin the landscape. Oh don’t forget about the flooded lands the those 0 carbon foot print dams take up, all that dirty energy to build the dams. Hey these units have their places but in the northern part of most provinces you might as well forget it, I’ve been in Sedona, AZ and a heat pump didn’t get to 65F. Yes they have been improving but would you like your energy bill after running your dryer for 14 hours a day for 26 days out of the month. That’s the cost and the carbon foot print for these is not 0.
He looked cold I wonder how much Black mold he has now?
if his house is properly airsealed and insulated, I'd say none.
It is useless in cold weather!