The Tragedy of House of the Dragon | S2E3
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- Опубликовано: 1 июл 2024
- The Dance of the Dragons is, on its most fundamental level, a tragedy. Let's talk about why.
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The opening scene was so much more tragic when you realise that an adult woman will never be considered mature or seasoned enough to hold a position of power, yet these green as moss teenage boys are given power over life and death itself.
Women never become adults. They are always spoiled children.
Same thing on team green. They talk about the dragons they have available yet not once do they mention Helaena.
Not enough guts, not not mature enough. It's just these guts are another way of saying attracted to conflicts and violence.
Dude it's set in the middle ages or something. Its not tragic, its the norm.
Bitches be tripping back then (cuz they had long ass gowns)
She has a dragon. That's like the ultimate power in this universe.
The Rhaenyra/Allicent scene made sense to me from a character standpoint. Rhaenyra can be impulsive, but a Queen should try everything before declaring full war. We see that Rhaenyra needed that confirmation about her father for her character to move forward.
Sending envoys or being on neutral ground would've been better
being a ruler you need to have a backbone, look at viserys tryna please and be peaceful only reason his reign was so good is because jaeherys left it in such a good state
Except it really didn't. After Episode 8 where do we see Rhaenyra doubt her father's choice? If there is anyone who is plagued by that doubt it's Aegon. Also if Alicent really cared about no bloodshed then she would have alerted the guards that Rhaenyra was there and captured her. From Rhaenyra's POV this whole "wanting to avoid bloodshed" thing feels very poorly done and makes her feel delusional rather than wise.
The content of the scene was fine but the setup and placement in the story was pretty awful.
It doesn't make sense to me tho. Because one, after what happened to Jahaerys, the greens should have KL heavily guarded. And Rhaenyra's life too was threatened, so it doesn't make sense for her to take this gamble. Especially when it doesn't matter what Alicent thinks coz her half-brothers will not stop. She should have enough foresight to see this.
Second, Rhaenyra and Alicent should be beyond the point of negotiation after what happened to Luke and Jahaerys. The way they portrayed it, it showed a lack of grief and ferocity from both women. It seemed way too fanficy to me. Their confrontation should have happened way later when they've already suffered way too many losses. Also, Larys has eyes on Alicent all the time in the Red Keep. How is it that Rhae could blend in without him noticing?
I think the scene in the sept was a good idea, but found it frustrating that Rhaenyra stops short of explaining the entire prophecy to Alicent. It's like once she hears the information she's looking for to answer her own question she doesn't take it any further. If you're trying to negotiate your way out of a war after there have been injustices and murders on both sides, you'd better have a damned good reason. A prophecy that could doom everyone IS such a reason. But instead she brushes it off as "it was this story my father used to tell," like NO dumbass, it's existential and the entire reason he named you his heir! To call that a missed opportunity is an understatement. It seems so pointless that they had that conversation only to resolve to go to war anyway. Rhaenyra, if she REALLY cared about the prophecy, could simply offer to step down from her claim and meet with the council at King's Landing to explain the prophecy to them and collaborate on a plan going forward. But I think she wants to be queen for the sake of being queen, like to validate her father's love for her. And Alicent obviously doesn't care that both her sons are rabid psychopaths, so she's an even worse problem.
The funny part about Brackens v Blackwoods is that, albeit it’s a microcosm of the Dance of the Dragons or the ASOIAF conflict, eventually the greens and the blacks (or Starks and Lannisters in the main continuity) will reconcile but these two B-houses will keep fighting each other forever.
The Blackfyre Rebellion is very much a Bracken Vs. Blackwood Conflict. If the theories are right this will have pretty big influence ont he outcome of ASOIAF
@@MCAPrince What theories? May I ask you to elaborate?
@@nont18411probably the theory that Aegon is a blackfyre
@@nont18411 That Young Griff and/or Varys may be Blackfyre descendants
My take on the Alicent-Rhaenyra thing: It was a little clumsy but I'm willing to give that a pass because the resulting dialogue was really good.
There was a little suspension of disbelief there but not so much that it caused a problem imo.
I guess it comes back to a writing tip I came across: suspension of disbelief and coincidence when setting up tension tends to work well, but when resolving tension comes across as cheap. This was definitely the former.
I do wish you had spent a little time discussing what Rhaenyra and Alicent actually talked about. I think it was really good and important to both of their characters. Part of me agrees with you that the circumstances were contrived, but do you really feel that takes away the value the scene had? The development?
This is an interesting point. I did question how easy it was for Rhaenyra to get into the Sept, but it didn't bother me the way later GoT did, and I think this might be why.
I love Rhaenys's monologue about when the war started on its own, but it is completely undermined by the stunt she pulled at the dragonpit in S1E9. The writer's sold the intergrity of her character for the sake of shock value and spectacle.
Literally daemon brought this up in episode 1 and she had no response, just a shit eating grin
Cool, now move on and write about something else.
Also, her constantly cosigning Rhaenyra's inaction. Like how are you going to talk about inevitability of war and then act like preparing for war is a disgusting act by males.
Unless you consider that there was probably a closed door at the normal side dragon entrance. Even if there wasn't, Vhagar would have been right there.
@@nebuloushammer8773 If you can break through a stone floor, you can break through a closed door. Also, why would a riderless Vhagar attack Rhaenys for riding by?
Let's not defend bad writing.
The riverlands so far had
- The burning of Harrenhal and many battles surrounding Harrenhal that came after
- Robert’s rebellion
- The plundering, raping and looting by Tywin Lannister and Gregor Clegane
- The red wedding
- The perpetual civil war between Brackens and Blackwoods
- The revenge killing spree from Lady Stoneheart
Can’t think of any other region in Westeros that is more chaotic than this.
They have the worst position. Both geographically central without political or military power to make themselves untouchable.
@@bbh6212 The North is probably the strongest state in Westeros, if we didn’t consider the fertile land, because the size is massive and the harsh winter with the wall of Winterfell made this whole region impenetrable, at least not in a fair fight.
That’s why GRRM nerfed the Starks so much into a family of honorable fools who are dying like flies, because if each of them was as half as smart as Tyrion, they would have been unbeatable. And this made Stannis’ strategy in TWOW very interesting as well because he will have to fight against the Boltons, who are known to have zero honor and are very open to cheating (case in point, the red wedding) so Stannis (or Sansa, Littlefinger or even the resurrected Jon) has to pull some peak Machiavellian scheme to win or at least, deal a significant damage to Bolton’s troops.
The Blackfyre rebellion also takes place heavily in the River lands. Even before Aegon came the River lands were getting fucked over, they were controlled by Storm's End after the Durrandons stole their kingdom and then the Iron Isles after that.
@@nont18411for the North, the thing it has going against it is it’s so vast but underpopulated. You could probably go a hundred miles without another single human around in some places… and where you can’t, mostly small towns and villages with a few scattered keeps. Even in this time after decades of peace, they can only muster 2000 men in winter. Geographically it is strong, though it’s weak without a naval force, or when its armies are occupied. Even with just the land border at the Neck, if they fortified that it would make them super vulnerable on the coasts and interior (as Robb learned when his army was just south of their border, and Theon took Winterfell with a small force).
I thought the Alicent and Rhaenyra scene was really strong from a character driven lense, despite some tonal issues it makes full sense for Rhaenyra to be so reckless, she reminded me of her younger self, imagine that day in the garden with Alicent, they felt like those little girls again and the scene and dialogue was heavily referencial of that time, their most primal emotions forced into each other's light, a confrontation of all that's happened, and a necessary scene for their character's arcs moving forward
(sorry if I wasn't comprehensible, I'm trying to work on articulating complex ideas more eloquently and clearly)
Exactly! Rhaenyra was a little rockstar before she became queen, but she still has it in her for sure
I liked how they went from the young Bracken knight to his corpse lying among an entire field of dead bodies. It felt like a great example of how quickly these things can become out of control and turn into a tragedy.
I like how Rhaenys (akin to Chani in Dune: Part Two) is a middle woman between characters and viewers - giving out disclaimers, pointing out motivation, fixing moral alignments
Meanwhile being the biggest hypocrite. She has killed more innocent people than any Targaryen yet since Viseyris died.
She could've ended the war before it even began, she has no right to preach
Which would work if she wasn't such a hypocrite.
That's why I'm going to miss her so much! She's done things I wouldn't have done, for sure, but she speaks for all of us with her potent and portentous side-eyes -- especially when they're directed at Daemon (whom I love as a character and hate as a person, as many people do).
@@isohora I really dislike Rhaenys for enabling Rhaenyra’s inaction and failing to prevent the war for the dumbest reason possible.
Ah, I loved the Rhaenyra and Alicent scene! Each then understood the other’s perspective and reticence (or commitment) to fight. And clearing up the misunderstanding about Viserys’s last words was wonderful - Alicent realising she’d changed the course of history through her own mistake, and Rhaenyra knowing Viserys still chose her as heir until he died. Loved it, and I don’t care if it was a brave but rash decision to sneak into King’s Landing - it was an awesome bit of writing ❤
A needed scene and a great addition to fill holes from the History Book
When it comes to Rhaenyra sneaking into King's Landing, I know that it seems insane but there have been instances of leaders doing this in real life even in recent history where cameras and such exist. I think that Alicent truly coming to terms with the fact that she heard what she wanted to hear out of Viserys' last words is important enough for her character to justify the contreivence.
I agree, KL is a 500k city and how many people know what Rhaenyra looks like? 100 maybe? Also it's been soundly established that prayer is Alicent's most private and intimate moment so it makes sense she'd be alone.
Rhaenarya was witnessed as a child in the brothel and it immediately got to Otto and others when they had snuck out and she was disguised literally last season
@FencingMessiah but otto was actively having her followed last season, and she was recognized because daemon deliberately removed her beanie and exposed her silver hair
@@FencingMessiah that was when Daemon exposed her hair and his own in a brothel he was known to frequent and Otto would clearly have spies in. That's not the same.
@@tiem6260 you don't think during a war there aren't spies and eyes on the lookout for the opposing parties faction leader. Especially since Targaryens look very different from average people. If they had added the violet eyes this would have been even more ridiculous.
I really like that final scene because Rhaenyra actually made Alicent explain what she was talking about. A lesser show would have kept the dialogue intentionally vague to manufacture drama.
A better show would make Alicent have actual motives to make Aegon king rather than merely doing so because she misunderstood some words of a heavily drugged dying man. Alicent should have had actual motivations to put Aegon on the throne, not a dumb misunderstanding.
@@masterplokoon8803 I think her motivation is that she spent her whole without any agency and that seeing Aegon made king would at least make her mistreatment worth something. She waited for years for Viserys to change his mind, misinterpreting his words was just an opening.
@@reviewsbyjacob9350 nope, aparently she was completely cool with Rhaenyra being queen until she heard Viserys mumble about Aegon. She could have had so many good motivations: The one that you mentioned: being mistreated to produce princes and wanting one of them to be king for her suffering to mean something, other is fearing that Daemon and Rhaenyra would kill her sons (who would be traditionally the heirs) to secure their powers and also believing that her son being passed over as heir is an injustice based on Viserys' favouritism towards the child of his first wife by disinheriting his rightfull heir in Rhaenyra's favour just because he loved Rhaenyra's mother more. There, 3 understandable, human but flawed motivations. But no, all we got is "well she misunderstood a drugged man's mumbling".
@@masterplokoon8803- But the best part is that Otto and the Lannisters were going to usurp the Throne anyway. Alicent finally joining in was just a plus for Otto.
I personally found the unprompted telling of he is the son of Balon and it is dangerous for him to be much more problematic than the Alicent and Rhaenyra meeting at the sept.
The quote about young boys who have never fought is in episode 1 of House of the Dragon. I don't know if it's also in the books, but Rhaenys says it to Corlys in the show
That is immediately what I thought of too. The sentiment is similar to Catelyn in a Game of Thrones calling all the young knights who flocked to Renly in the beginning the Knights of Summer. They were similar in that they had not been old enough for Robert’s Rebellion and they have an idealized idea about the glory they will earn from war.
This was was the best episode yet for me. I don't think the A/R meeting in the sept was contrived at all. It used things that were previously established (Alicent going to the sept regularly, and fishing boats being an easy way to sneak into the city) and allowed them to meet in a brilliantly written and acted scene. Meeting on an island would have meant that Alicent had to choose to meet, which would have been out of character. I feel like Rhaenera sees that there has been a death on either side, each horrific and wants a hail mary to end the war peacefully. I think she is blinded by pride because she isnt actually willing to give anything up, so it was never going to work, but none of that is out of character.
Rhaenyra/Alicent made sense to me. It’s with Rhaenyra’s character, and after they both lost someone so it’s not just her being vengeful, she’s cooled off... though I wonder what might keep her from trying again for Aemond. For Alicent… it was a surprise, at knifepoint… but she was in a religious place she valued, literally bowing to the Mother of Mercy, with some lingering feeling of friendship plus shared grief, and she tried not to show but she was shook when she realized Rhaenyra must be right, and his last words made more sense to her, as well as a genuine personal desire for peace. The only question is why Rhaenyra doesn’t try to use Mysaria’s knowledge yet again for Aemond… but I’d guess they increased security, and he often only leaves the castle with his
Dragon… unless you catch him visiting his concubine for lack of a better word.
I strongly disagree about the Rhaenyra and Alicent scene.
Dragonstone is not that far away from King's Landing, meeting on a neutral island would take more time and potentially raise suspicions on Alicent, and I don't think Larys is that kind of person.
Moreover, King's Landing is a big city and as they said, no one would pay attention to a septa. Was it reckless? Definitely. Stupid? I don't think so.
Alicent has a habit of praying alone at the sept and they're exploiting that, it's the best way to meet with her inconspicuously.
If Rhaenyra is captured then the war is over. And she really should be captured in this situation, if Alicent let her get away then Alicent is literally a traitor and an idiot.
@@SuperCrow02Alicent has been trying this whole season to be a diplomat and cool down this conflict, she does not want bloodshed nor is she ever advocating or seeking for it. From a military stand point sure it's stupid, but Alicent is not that kind of character and has never been she is not thinking in terms of war. Furthermore although her relationship with rhaenyra is shattered they still grew up together, would be pretty out of character for her to just go to the guards knowing full well if she gets captured she will be executed and not painlessly. If rhaenyra dies I doubt the conflict would end, daemon would just take over. We can argue if the houses would stand down or fight more fearlessly if their queen dies, but I'm sure as hell daemon will not go before causing some serious bloodshed.
@@oscarchavezavellan2738 Then she shouldn't have led a coup
Nah
@@SuperCrow02capturing her would just open the flood gates. It wouldn’t end anything. Her council already proved they’re willing to operate in her absence and Daemon will be Daemon and finally engage and lead a war while potentially claiming the throne if she died.
I really liked the scene in the sept. Especially with how they handled their relationship in the first season. There really was a point where those two characters could have had a conversation and likely prevented the war. But tragically when they do have that conversation it's just too late. Plans are in motion. It also really gives Reynera solid motivation to go forward with the war when previously she was really leaning towards caution.
I really hate when something can be prevented by two characters just talking. I'm glad they had the opportunity to have that conversation and it just solidifies that this war is officially beyond their control. Also although I'm not a huge fan of the knife and the prophecy, having them have that last conversation about The song of ice and fire is so important to how the show is motivating these characters.
Allisont realizes she was wrong. Reynera has to grapple with the fact that her father may have changed his mind. Only for it to be confirmed that he wasn't talking about aegon at all. It was a misunderstanding.
You can see the emotions play on Emma Darcy's face at the end and there's this moment where they give this little half smile and you know that's Reynera realizing that she is the rightful heir and this is a righteous war. (I mean Jesus Emma Darcy the small acting moments are just Oscar Worthy.)
Also any excuse to put those two characters/actors in the same room is honestly worth it for me. They work sooooo well together and their chemistry is honestly some of the best I've seen on TV... Ever.
I've been looking forward to this. Nothing left but a feast for crows.
I hate the logistics of the meeting at the Sept. It's so dumb. I hated it when Tyrion met Jamie in Season 7. Too waay to convenient
They addressed why the women didn’t meet in a neutral location though. Rhaenyra says she can’t do that because both of them would assume it was an ambush unless it was a surprise.
And I find it totally believable that Alicent wouldn’t want to hurt her and would let her go, especially after learning what her mistake was. Even if that wasn’t super smart.
6:20 That's a common theme in both shows and the main book series, but I don't know if there's a direct line in Fire and Blood that describes it. But you may be thinking of Catelyn's line from A Clash of Kings when she talks about the "Knights of Summer" when she is talking about Renly's army, young men who have been training and playing in tournaments for their whole lives, who are eager to play at war as if it was the same game based on the stories they've been told. Only the few older veterans like Randyll Tarly know the truth when the War of 5 Kings starts, but all of Renly's inner circle are young untried Knights who are eager for blood and battle only because they've never experienced it.
Felt the same about the last part being a bit contrived. But other than that, I loved the episode! I felt it expanded on the world, and it was nice to see more characters from the book being introduced. I particularly really enjoyed the sequences at Harrenhal. They really did a great job making it into this haunted place, and I loved Daemon's interactions with Simon Strong. Simon Beale did such a good job with his character.
Great video and I love the community engagement in these comments. Your channel has serious potential for these next few weeks if you continue producing these cool on-sight commentaries in a timely manner after each episode is aired and fans are eager to see commentary on YT. Props for sharing your personal opinions on what felt good or bad in the episode.
I think it’s crazy that people are undermining the sue for peace. We know how this turns out, this war fucks things up for these families forever. This talk working is literally the only way this story could have had a happy ending.
You articulated my thoughts on the Rhaenyra stealth mission exactly. The whole thing felt incredibly forced.
It's like you're reading from my Blackwood and Bracken script, absolutely nailed it Tim! Love the idea of going out to somewhere like the battlefield to make that point, inspired choice.
The teleporting cow at the end of the video felt very on point for this episode 😂😂.
Great video as always!
In most other works, I could see cutting corners to not show that field of corpses this episode, so it was really refreshing and impressive to see that many dead bodies from the fallout of battle all in two fantastic shots. That was such a good depiction of the end result (and main point being made about war this episode) that I didn't feel even slightly robbed for not being shown the battle itself.
With Rhaenyra's undercover plan, I at least appreciated some degree of covering for problems with it and highlighting things like how easy it is for a royal woman who's not dressed like one nor prettied up to blend in with commonfolk. And using a nun disguise might cover for a lot of potential harm if we're to believe it's a particularly bad offense to attack someone of the religious sect. (I don't know for certain, my inference there may be misguided.)
And with Alicent not calling the guards, I figured it had something to do with the message she sent Rhaenyra that gave the impression she'd be open to a peace talk of some kind and maybe also respecting Rhaenyra for risking her own life to try to broker some middleground... But I'm iffy on that and leaning further away from it. What I was wondering when I was watching the scene was why Rhaenyra didn't confirm with Alicent if the message was really from her, considering the way the conversation was going seemed to indicate that Alicent wasn't all too keen about making peace. I'm surprised it didn't come up at all, anyway.
Overall, I thought it was another great episode. I felt bad for Aemond having his private place so unpleasantly disturbed by his brother. I imagine that's going to ripple into their relationship falling apart and/or the smallfolk suffering somehow. (I haven't read the books, so this is pure speculation.)
I usually hate when events happen to characters without those characters having agency, but in HOTD it feels like they have enough agency to fly into the web, and enough to flail round trapped once they’re caught. But I like that so much is beyond their control.
I really didn't mind Rhaenyra's quick travel to the crypt. I think the tone of the imminent threat was conducted well enough, and I loved how they tied it to the prophecy at the end.
I think that these first 10 minutes (the battle of the blackwoods + rhaeny's monologue on what started the war) might be the best of the whole series
The scene with Allicent and Rhaenyra is interesting because that miscommunication is the entire foundation of the war in one sense. Rhaenyra being aware of her father's last words and Allicent being aware of their true meaning should change the way they both play the game
I think Rhaenyra getting in and out of King's Landing does actually make sense.
What I find to be contrived is how easily Arryk got to Dragonstone. There's literally an entire blockade preventing ships in Blackwater Bay from moving past Driftmark. Unless Arryk travelled on horseback literally around 400 miles (about a 2 week journey) to get around the blockade by land before getting on a ship to Dragonstone, then he teleported to Dragonstone. Well, it hasn't been two weeks. It's only been a few days (if that). So he teleported.
Rhaenyra on the other hand has the authority to command Velaryon ships to just let her pass. Or she can fly Syrax nearby some fishing village before getting into costume and hitching a ride on a fishing boat with a little gold, so even her boat's captain wouldn't realise she's anyone of importance, so can't sell her out.
The Blacks can easily move to and from King's Landing, like Daemon flew Caraxes there and back, using the cover of night to hide Caraxes and his remaining loyal goldcloaks to smuggle him through guarded gates. But the Greens simply can't reach Dragonstone without having to fight dragons prior to landing.
They should have given more detail about how the blockade was conducted. Maybe it's redirecting ships to Driftmark so they can make port before they have to sail back to the Free Cities, or to ransack and commandeer them if they sailed from King's Landing. Then Arryk would be forced by the Velaryons to disembark on Driftmark like a trojan horse, able to cross the island and board the next ship bound for Dragonstone. Problem is there's no way he does that without Verlaryon soldiers searching him and finding his Kingsguard armour. If he tries to bribe them, they'll just take the gold and search his bag anyway. You can't bribe someone who's literally already successfully robbing you. So someone else would need to guarantee Arryk isn't searched. Perhaps Larys would be approached for a connection on Driftmark? That's plausible, but not stated at all.
As it currently stands, Arryk teleported.
Hey, if I buy the books from Amazon does Tim still get some of the proceeds? I don't shop on Amazon so I don't know.
I do, yes!
~ Tim
Sir, this is the best review of any show I've ever watched. I'm off to watch all your other HoTD videos. Take all of my watchtime, you really deserve it!
add another vote here for disagreeing about that rhaenyra allicent scene. they could have maybe shown more of how she got into king's landing, focus on the journey almost like they did with the two dudes who killed the kid before, and that could have made it feel less convenient, but that conversation makes the whole thing worth it. the levels of misunderstanding, understanding, embracing the misunderstanding, and then walking away from the conversation was fantastically done.
The Dance of the Dragons is loosely based on The Anarchy period in English history but what struck me while watching this episode - and what seems to have struck you too - is the similarity to the leadup to World War I. A generation of boys trained to fight, raised on stories of the glory of war, as the memory of the horrific reality slowly fades. Politicians who don't want war but are powerless or inadequate to prevent it, as mistakes and bad luck slowly compound, until somehow an the assassination of an Austrian archduke in Bosnia has French and German boys killing each other in Belgium.
Logistical clunkiness of the Alicent/Rhaenyra conversation aside, I really appreciate the narrative, character and thematic significance on multiple fronts:
1. It felt in line with their love for each other and primary motivations being conciliation (as set up by their previous actions).
2. It tied up their relationship arc nicely by explaining the misunderstanding with Viserys's "final wish."
3. They (especially Alicent) concluded that despite resolving the misunderstanding, it was ultimately too little too late; Tragically, they're powerless to stop the war to come. As Rhaenys said, it doesn't matter what the instigating incident/s were. The people with the reins are hot-blooded young men who've never known the horrors of war. They're impulsive and all too eager to prove themselves through senseless violence and there's no bottling that genie anymore :/
I'm in the USA but I still feel a kinship with The North because I'm up far enough in the mountains to have seen bears in the wild and have four feet of snow. Harrenhal isn't just cursed because it's spooky, I feel like especially in the events of Game Of Thrones like everyone who gets gifted it dies; though lots of people die in that anyways. I love how the book treats Rhaenyra and Allicent as monsters, and the show does an amazing job of showing that they are just people pushed to extremes, and also no one bats an eye when the teenage boys do the most fucked up shit possible and starts wars on a whim.
Otto: War is diplomacy by other means...
Aegon, Daemon, Aemond: Imma stab a fool!
I think my main problem with Daemon and now Rhaenyra sneaking into King's Landing is that they never acknowledge the blockade of the Gullet. Are they sneaking past their own blockade? Do the Velaryon ships know they're going past and letting them sail? When it was just Daemon I kind of assumed he flew to a remote clearing near King's Landing and then made the rest of the journey on foot or something, but here they were clearly shown sailing (presumably directly from Dragonstone). Conceptually, I have no problem with Daemon and Rhaenyra specifically being able to sneak into King's Landing or even the Red Keep (I doubt many people know the tunnels as well as them), but I just wish they clarified the logistics a bit better when it's such a simple question.
The blockade prevents the entrance of ships inside Blackwater Bay but doesn't really account for internal vessels.
i hated that final scene so much, it makes zero sense
rhanera is not that stupid that she'd put herself at risk to have a chat with alicent when she knows very well alicent has no power to stop anything anyway
and alicent has not reason not to take rhanera hostage to force the blacks into surrendering the moment she turns up in KL
its just so dumb, it reminds me of got S7-8, the first really bad moment of this season for me, the first two episodes were flawless
I think the scene in the sept was a good idea, but found it frustrating that Rhaenyra stops short of explaining the entire prophecy to Alicent. It's like once she hears the information she's looking for to answer her own question she doesn't take it any further. If you're trying to negotiate your way out of a war after there have been injustices and murders on both sides, you'd better have a damned good reason. A prophecy that could doom everyone IS such a reason. But instead she brushes it off as "it was this story my father used to tell," like NO dumbass, it's existential and the entire reason he named you his heir! To call that a missed opportunity is an understatement. It seems so pointless that they had that conversation only to resolve to go to war anyway. Rhaenyra, if she REALLY cared about the prophecy, could simply offer to step down from her claim and meet with the council at King's Landing to explain the prophecy to them and collaborate on a plan going forward. But I think she wants to be queen for the sake of being queen, like to validate her father's love for her. And Alicent obviously doesn't care that both her sons are rabid psychopaths, so she's an even worse problem.
Tim I respect your opinion a lot but people gotta remember: King’s Landing and Dragonstone are incredibly close to each other, almost like crossing a bay and you’re there, that’s why they keep smuggling people there or in GoT why Davos smuggled things into Flee Bottom while living in Dragonstone, so the fact Rhaenyra did this is actually believable. Small folk don’t even know what she looks like and most of the king’s guards are new so also don’t know her face. She knows the one that does- aka Criston - isn’t in the city. Yes still it was dangerous af but Rhaenyra is the type of character to do such things, and it seem fitting she would try everything she could to avoid conflict. Also I absolutely loved how you can tell Alicent knew Rhaenyra was saying the true and she had fucked up, yet because it’s already late and also just as Aemond who in the Red Keep said he killed Luke on purpose even tho he admits he regrets that and was a mistake, Alicent’s pride won’t allow her to admit out loud her mistake but I’m sure that will be her big conflict the rest of the season.
Also the reassurance in Rhaenyra’s face when she realizes the talk was about the prophecy is incredible, she needed to feel confident and decisive and now she confirmed that Viserys stood his ground and you could tell she felt empowered again by that. Incredible acting by both Emma and Olivia.
Meeting in a middle island would NOT make sense at all, nobody would’ve agreed to that, specially Larys.
Alicent after realizing her mistake would allowed her to leave FOR SURE, Alicent might be proven stupid and infuriating but she isn’t an evil person and she still feels something for her, even though conflicting. Also full circle to young Rhaenyra sneaking out of the castle in S1. She only got discovered back then when Daemon took her hat off and also because Otto was actively following them both but the small folk had no idea I’m sure until they see grey hair.
Nah
honestly the thing I'm thinking the hardest about right now is how Alice Rivers seemed to have an American accent.
I agree with the point about them stretching for more for Rhaenyra to do and I think its a real shame. We had so much from her and Alicent in season 1 and we could have a great opportunity to develop some of the rest of the cast like her sons and Corlys for a few episodes while she is recovering. Especially the sons feel quite underdeveloped to me.
I'm also a bit irked by Rhaenyra being able to sneak in to see Allicent...but honestly the line about how easily Daemon did so really smoothed that over. Yes, he has his Goldcloak contacts etc. but that was enough - for me - to get past the nuts and bolts of secreting Rhaenyra back n forth and to allow it to be enough to justify having the scene in the sept, which I feel is pretty vital for the series before Rook's Rest next week.
Not to mention, how easily Arryk made it to Dragonstone when his face and armor would made him equally recognizable.
Was anyone else just aggressively cheering on the Highland Cows in the background for just existing and vibing or was that just me
Shakespearian vibes ! ⚔️
Rhaenys quotes sound like a shakespearian tragedy reciter or an antique choir.
The Bracken/Nerbosc antagonism reminds the Montaigu/Capulet ancestral hate in Romeo and Juliet.
The Daemon scenes in this episode really captured the more horror themed supernatural aspects of the books. I loved it.
Love the setting for this video!
That scene rubbed me the wrong way as well. As a writer, sometimes we can see the invisible hand of other writers (or perhaps directors) forcing something to happen that shouldn't be. They had several issues they needed to solve, and this was their somewhat clumsy way of doing it. 1) Give the queens one last attempt to make peace so later when they start doing more warlike things, they can feel like they tried. 2) Remind us about what really started all this, the prophecy, while letting those characters finally understand each other's point of views, so later they can actively be making decisions instead of these constant blunders each side makes. 3) Alicent doubling down on her stance. Even if she was wrong about the prophecy, it is too late to save her family by conceding. They both want to protect their children, and for her that now means waging war.
The scene of the dragon chasing the knights was great. Harrenhall is great. Overall, I'm so thrilled by this series.
I don't think Alicant could have left King's Landing at this point without people realizing, so while I agree it was crudely done I also think it was the only way it could be done at all.
Well, Dragonstone is practically next door to Kingslanding so it makes sense to me that they could just hop over there. And I do like that they gave Raenyra and Alicent one last opportunity to try to talk things out. I agree though that the whole thing was wildly implausible. It's one thing for Daemon to make a quick trip; he was commander of the Gold Cloaks, still has friends there, and he was wandering around at night. That being said, I don't know how else they could have put Alicent and Raenyra in the same spot without tying themselves into knots to justify it happening with zero repercussions. At least this way was quick and I think the show is better for Raenyra and Alicent having that conversation so I'm willing to give it a pass.
it was unrealistic but the scene was so brilliant with the realisation that the war had grown out of their control and they were helpless to stop it was so good it made up for it a hundred times over
"Don't matter who did what to who at this point. Fact is, we went to war and now there ain't no goin' back. I mean, shit, it's what war is, you know? Once you in it, you in it. If it's a lie, then we fight on that lie. But we gotta fight." Lord Slim Charles
I think the scene with alicent and rhaenyra was a bit contrived, but not too much. I will not say it’s as bad as the map jumping in season 8, since dragonstone is so close to kings landing. I think they really wanted it to parallel the scene in season one, and while that worked for me personally, it meant stretching our suspension of disbelief a little too much. :))
Last scene aim : now, nobody can believe anymore that this war was based on the misinterpretation of a dying man's last words.
Whatever happened this night, the war was inevitable.
I didn't worry about plot contrivances. They made Aegon's Dream the reason Alicent put forward her son, when she could have either just wanted to or felt she needed to. Or that Vhagar was acting as Aemond wanted instead of going against him. The real problem I have had so far is that we've yet to see Sunfyre or Dreamfyre up close this whole time!
This episode was full of a lot of redundant arguments and pointless conversations characters flip flopping their motivations
@4:41 The Greyjoys are simple at least, they’ve never wanted more than to be able to pillage and plunder
I think how we got to the scene and how Rhaenyra got to KL was a but weird in execution and ambigous in how she got to the sept undiscovered, but the resulting scene with her and Alicent was great.
Even with the realistic difficulty and risk it would take to even reach alicent, what did rhaenyra think she would achieve? Alicent has no real power, only influence over some key parties that actually hold power. And there is no way any of them would ever consider peace now. Alicent can't do anything to stop the war
Who knows how the feud between the Blackens and the Brackwoods really started...
Your thoughts about Alys Rivers are interesting....I did not get the impression that she was the one giving Daemon those visions or making him sleepwalk. I thought it was the inbuilt magic of Harrenhal that did that. She is most likely someone who is more talented in magic things like bloodraven and Melisandre but in the books even non-magic characters like Jamie Lannister get weird dreams when around weirwood trees and Targaryens themselves have been known to have dreamer powers through their own magic.
Regarding the season 8esque meeting between Alicent and Rhaenyra the best thing to do to avoid that would be to just stick to the books especially with the major story beats of the characters. If they wanted to show a female character being badass in the episode titled burning mill then they really missed their chance with Alysanne Blackwood who is supposed to have done a very badass thing in the battle of the burning mill, but they skipped over that battle. Imo they should start giving more focus to the other houses instead of just focusing on the Targaryens. That meeting between Alicent and Rhaenyra with Alicent realizing that all this happened because she misinterpreted that Viserys was saying would have had much better impact if the scene had taken place much later at a part of the story from the books when it is much more plausible (spoilers).
Yeah I thought your suggestion of them meeting on an island via their spymaster would’ve been better. Still, I don’t mind the convenient nature of this scene, since the dialogue was great and locations are still very close. It’s more like season 4 or 5 in that regard.
The only issue I had with the final scene was how it seems to not really serve a purpose to the narrative (although that remains to be seen) it was 10 minutes of two characters affirming what we already know, whereas I feel other things could have benefited from those extra 10 minites like the battle of the burning mill or troop movement, scenes with Jace taking more action or Haelena being more fleshed out after the death of her son.
It was silly. Not as egregious as other scenes we’ve seen here and in GoT. I can live with them making these types of scenes as long as they don’t veer too far off from the main plot
I personally didn't mind the Rhaenyra and Alicent part. Dragonstone is close to King's Landing, and the Sept is public. It was certainly risky, but not unfathomable. I don't think Alicent would get Rhaenyra captured because of their history.
I’m having a hard time with the dialogue this season. I think their attempts at archaic language sound sloppy, and it came off as hollow and artificial to me. Idk how y’all feel
4:18 "Like with the Blackens and the Brackwoods"
Love your analysis (especially on the Blackwood/Brackens' old-age feud), except your critics on the Sept scene with Rhaenyra and Alicent. Meeting on an island wouldn't do for the both of them, Rhaenyra said so herself in the episode: if she warned Alicent of her wish to meet and talk, Alicent would believe the whole ordeal is a trap. And Rhaenyra would think the same if their roles were reversed, she said so herself in the same scene as well. Besides, nobody on Team Green would allow or support Alicent going (in secret) to meet Rhaenyra for potential peace talks. Nobody wants peace on Team Green, especially not the ones with the most power in their hands at the moment (meaning Aegon, Aemond, and Criston). Larys is now shifting his loyalties from Alicent to Aegon (because he's a bitch), and he wouldn't help Alicent to meet Rhaenyra - war serves his personal goals, too. And he killed Harwin, Alicent knows that, and I bet he wouldn't want her getting too close to Rhaenyra in case the truth on this matter ever came out. So no, there is literally no way for Alicent and Rhaenyra to meet outside of KL, it would be even more unrealistic.
Furthermore, I think sneaking into KL goes with Rhaenyra's personnality pretty well. She's a "hot blooded Targaryen", she thinks highly of herself as the true heir to the throne (and before that, the realm's delight and the princess), she is confident in herself and her power, and she has been living with Daemon fucking Targaryen for at least a decade!! If Daemon was able to sneak into KL for Blood & Cheese just like that (with a worst disguise than Rhaenyra, must I say), I don't see why Rhaenyra wouldn't be able to do the same. The double standard is kinda annoying, nobody batted an eye when Daemon went into KL - simply because it's Daemon!! Now, I know the security is probably way higher now that Jaehaerys was murdered, but it would probably be focused more on the Red Keep. Aegon doesn't care about his citizens, why put security in the streets? And nobody would attack the Sept or members of the Faith, so why bother with security there? Besides, I bet Mysaria knows her way around Flea Bottoms and KL a bit more surely than the guards. And I don't think the guards would be able to recognise Rhaenyra on sight (especially not if her hair are hidden), anyway. She hasn't been in KL for decades at this point, no way anyone would know her facial features outside of her close family. And she's wearing a religious uniform, people would not look twice at her. So yes, it's dangerous, but the plan is not stupid in itself. There is low military presence around the Sept, Alicent is alone in her prayers, and nobody would suspect Rhaenyra or even think Rhaenyra would be bold enough to come to KL in this context. Like Mysaria said, the "men don't look at you if they're not trying to seduce you", and nobody would try to seduce a nun.
Besides, this scene true goal is not to develop the plot, but to develop the characters. It is character-wise and essential to have this scene between Rhaenyra and Alicent, for different reasons. Rhaenyra needs the confirmation Viserys truly wanted her on the throne, to get rid of her own doubts about her legitimacy and capacity to rule and be the Queen. She also needs the reminder of the prophecy, because it's not just her crown on the line - it's the future of Westeros, which she must protect from the "end of the world of men". She has a mission way more important than anything Aegon could push forward. Finally, she also needs the confirmation from Alicent that the war is unavoidable - Alicent is stuck (which is even more clear with the scene happening in KL and not on an unknown island), among men who thirst for blood, and she has no control over them anymore. It's too late.
Respecting Viserys' true wish to see her on the throne + protecting Westeros from doom in the future + facing a war they cannot stop anymore = Rhaenyra is now 100% involved and determined to win this conflict, because she is in the right (according to Westerosi laws, Targaryen law, and just her vision of right and wrong).
For Alicent, this meeting is also a turning point for different reasons. We know Alicent is already on the brink of a breakdown: she's been having sex with Criston as a way to punish and shame herself, plus Jaehaerys was killed during one of their trysts together (not truly her fault, but Alicent is 100% carrying guilt for this), she lost all power in the council among men who do not care for her (often wise and intelligent) opinions, her father has been exiled to Old Town and lost his Hand title (again), she lives with her children but hasn't been further away from them (emotionnaly), even Larys doesn't care about her anymore, she has lost all purpose. The Sept scene and the revelation of the true meaning of Viserys' last words are the last nail in Alicent's coffin: she has respected the law and the norms of Westerosi royalty, she has been dutiful and she sacrificed everything (she has basically no self, since she was entirely built following the rules of the men around her), she suffered for... nothing! Her sons are monsters (she recognises it herself), Helaena is grieving the worst loss a mother could suffer (and it's - in part - because of Alicent) and she's always been estranged from her mother, Otto doesn't care about her as his daughter but only as a political pawn, Larys and Criston use her as a sexual object, and Viserys wasn't much better because he only used her to pop out heirs - without even caring for them afterwards. And now, the ONLY thing someone has EVER done for HER in her (post-young Rhaenyra and Alicent fight) life is revealed to be a lie?? The only time Viserys seems to consider her role as a Queen, Aegon's role as his son and as Alicent's son, to recognise her work and suffering and to give her something in return for all these years of dutiful service... well, it's a lie. Worse, it's a misunderstanding she could never have predicted, because Viserys was talking to Rhaenyra about something only the true heir should know about. It's nobody's fault really, but all the consequences are falling on Alicent (and Rhaenyra, and everyone more or less tied to these two women). The only silver-lining in Alicent's life is destroyed just like that, and what is an immense groundbreaking revelation for both Alicent and Rhaenyra doesn't even matter in the world of men. Otto (and his council) had already planned to put Aegon on the throne when Viserys died, and he hadn't even thought necessary to warn Alicent of the plan - she's a woman after all, she's fragile and emotional and she still holds love of their enemy. So yeah, it's heartbreaking for Alicent to learn the truth, and yet she knows it doesn't matter one bit in the grand scheme of things. She doesn't matter, she hasn't mattered at all since the very beginning - since her marriage to Viserys, truly. It didn't matter she birthed heirs after heirs (THREE boys, it's not nothing!). It didn't matter she basically ruled in Viserys' stead for at least a decade. It doesn't matter she cared for him alone as he grew more ill. Anything she has done, doesn't matter in the end.
This revelation = there is nothing to be done about the war, it's too late for us to make peace, Alicent says to Rhaenyra. And she truly believes this, and truly believes Rhaenyra will trust her as well.
Also, it's funny how Alicent doesn't even flinch when she notices the knife pointed toward her (she's merely annoyed, which is kind of funny), but she's having a full shock when she recognises Rhaenyra! 😂anyway, just to say the scene made of lot of sense for both characters, and i guess for people not focusing on Rhaenyra and Alicent's personnal stories and evolutions, it could seem a bit "useless" for the overall plot. But that's what makes HotD truly stands apart from GoT, which was (sometimes annoyingly) the reverse: a LOT of political plot (which is nice when it's well-written, then horreful when they pretend to write good dialogs) for little to no character development for the main characters (especially in the last few seasons). I hope HotD will continue to focus on these two women, it's the only thing TRULY separating the show from basic political drama, and making it UNIQUE.
I think I disagree with your take on the Alicent-Rhaenyra meeting. They even said “there is no place Alicent goed without heavy protection”, so meeting on a neutral island wouldn’t even be possible.
I think the sept was a great place to meet. This is a great callback to season 1. As well as a callback to when rhaenyra as a child was able to dress up as a boy and not being recognized.
For me it worked.
Also it's been established multiple times that prayer is the most intimate and private moment for Alicent do it makes sense she'd want to be alone
Rhaenarya was recognized in the brothel. That was the whole huge plot point last season. It immediately got back to Otto because of course it did
@FencingMessiah because otto was actively having her followed and daemon purposely exposed her
@@schwaben4120 in a war people will be on the lookout for the opposing factions leader. In the situation with daemon they used the secret passageways and it was dark and she was still recognized. Daemon took her hat off that's about it. What he is well aware of is that royalty especially that rare looking is easily recognizable. They're lucky they haven't added the fact that Targaryens have violet eyes or it would be even more ridiculous
@@FencingMessiah she was recognized by a single boy, which in the end told it to Otto.
This very much could still happen.
But even if it won’t, it showed you can very well just hide within the masses.
Especially since Rhaenyra hasnt been in Kingslanding that much the last few years, not many people would recognize her.
Daemon has been in kingslanding (or other places) just with a cap around his head and that wasnt a problem for you?
Idk, it worked well enough for me.
Cool take. Would be interesting to go further into what you talked about in the beginning, but from the legislate side. When was the dejure & defacto start of the war? Was the Brecken-Blackwood war cooped into a a Targeryan civil war or other way arond? And all this war was coused in the first place mainly because of the failures of the legislate institution, that was weakend by frequant drastic interference by the very powerful (changes to inheritance, revange withot trial,..) and by ignoring their duties to uphold the law and government when inconvinent (the sceeen from season 1 at the small council meeting where they are infomred that the conflict is brewing up again between Brackesn and Blackwoods and that the Tullys are unable to enforce the Kings peace.... and the council ignored it with disinterest and contmept........ so could we argue that the war become unavoidable at this very moment when those holdingh the highest authoriry in the realm ignored their duty to the realm? ) ----- and on the flip side, would that make a Battle of a Burning Mill escalation a just one in order to set things straight between to feuding (punt intended) parties?
I agree that they could add 1 or 2 more sceens (i thik it was implied in one sceen that Mysria will handle the logictis, but yeah, twas a bit awkward and fast) that woudl lead up to that Rhynera-Alicent meeting to make it less out of the blue last second action. But character motivations for it is fine, and 'teleportation'..... cmon Dragonstone is not that far from Kingslanding
Welcome to the North! You'll note that despite being July it is grey and rather chilly which suits not only the North of Westeros, but the wide, gothic expanses of the Brontës and is also rather reflective of my soul.
If you get a chance, pop up to the wall, Hadrian's that is, we have gorgeous towns, impressive landscapes and a lot of history.
I agree with Rhanyra stuff at the end, like she would risk her own life and orphaning her children just to meet Alicent. Definitely think the scene is good stuff but it just felt soooo contrived
I am conflicted about the Rhaenicent scene. While the content of the conversation was okay, I also don't see why it was needed. It almost seems to remove what should be a lot of anger and grief that they both have towards the other side and portrays them as extremely naive. They should both know that ONE meeting in SECRET that no one else is involved in is not going to stop the war. And I also hate the way that it seems to flatten Alicent's motivation for the war into "it was a misunderstanding because of the prophecy" when Alicent in season 1 starts this war (not on her own) because of real anger and fear. I liked the lack of closure that Alicent and Rhaenyra had as two characters that were close as children but grow further and further away, both because of their own choices and because of outside circumstances, that make it so they can never reconcile and never truly understand why the other goes to these lengths. I prefer that their conflict goes unresolved and they never truly understand each other after their initial lovely short childhood. The scene in the last season where they send letters to each other that are rejected should have been the end of that, especially after the murders on both side. WHY ARE THEY STILL SENDING LETTERS TO EACH OTHER LIKE THAT WILL DO ANYTHING?
Harren: "You cannot breach my castle."
Aegon: "You mean your oven?"
Harren: "What?"
Aegon: "What?"
I think the show is trying to get Rhaenyra to do more stuff and be more active but the problem is that the war hasn't fully started yet so so far it has kind of just been her in the same position as the end of episode 10 when she was trying to resolve things peacefully and avoid war but like with the murders of Luke and baby Jaehaerys and the Battle of the Burning Mill, I feel that resolving things peacefully one way or another is kind of out of the question. Now granted that is also part of the tragedy, since she still seems to think that is an option even though it most assuredly is not, but it is still kind of more wheel-spinning for her character.
Worst part of the show is their attempt to embellish women as superior rulers than men, because all the women are bending backwards to avoid war (even after its started)
They are unintentionally spreading the stereotype "women dont have the stomach for war" i.e. they can only rule when its easy
House of the Dragon is definitely a show I'd describe in a sentence as "It's good but it's not great". It's too inconsistent in its quality, for everything they do right or really well they screw something else up. The show has yet to strike a balance.
I don't respect criticism when it isn't accompanied by recommendations for how things might have been done "better."
Great video.
“Blackens and brackwoods” lmao
2:48 i think theres also a good point there two in misjudgment of the severity of a situation.
To the people who moved the stones this is a little iasue to boast with ypur friends over. To the person whose land was stolen this isnt a joke or a threat- its a warning that you're fucking around and about to find out.
There's a reason the boastful, false Knight ended with his own sword through his neck. He wasnt ready for the consequences of hiw own actions.
I did also think it was a little silly but like you said the scene itself was quite good and honestly it didn't really bother me.
It's interesting that a lot of people are making fun of the show for the Dance "starting" because Alicent misheard the thing about "Aegon" when one of the big themes is that it doesn't really matter how it started. Having an inciting event of the Dance be something incredibly stupid actually supports this main theme of the show.
I had absolutely no issues with Rhaenyra's meeting with Allicent, and still haven't been remotely convinced otherwise by any of the people talking about it.
-None of the people around Allicent would have ever let her meet with Rhaenyra.
-Allicent herself wouldn't really agree to it in the first place, unless it was for her surrender or at least an apology for Jahaerys (like we saw).
-Any meeting like this would've escalated to two armies staring each other down, with dragons ready to strike on both sides.
By coming herself, Rhaenyra immediately removed all of those issues and the fact that she was completely alone in enemy territory and at Allicent's mercy underlines the depth of her sincerity.
There's maybe ten people in the entire King's Landing who would be able to recognize her, and none of them aside from Allicent regularly visit the Sept. And even with that, 90% of her recognizable features are just not there, so only a person directly looking at her face with the intent to place it would even have a chance to do so.
Rhaenyra's plan for leaving is based on the very reason as for why she wanted to have this meeting in the first place: because the letter from Allicent showed her there was still love and a desire for peace between them. She simply knows that Allicent would not call the guards on Rhaenyra, because she knows her better than that.
The 2nd episode was almost perfect. This one was not it, I would've cut like 30 minutes from the episode, the pacing was very weird and the scene with rhaenyra and alicent was incredibly unnecesary, kinda feel like this episode was filler for the next one, wish they keep the level from episode 2 for the rest of the episodes.
From a plotting perspective it's 100% sloppy, the Septa Rhanyera thing. But you have these two absolutely incredible actors, they're not going to see each other for a long time, I understand needing a scene with the two opposing figure heads talking, especially with their relationship so built up over the first season. Could've used a second pass, but as a show over story decision? It was a good one, could've been done better.
If you were either queen, at this point, would you trust Larys to arrange anything for you that you would rather keep secret? I wouldn't! Mysaria instructs Rhaenyra to get to King's Landing the same way that Daemon did, basically, and I have no problem with that. Rhaenyra has not, in the past, been against a risky move, as we saw way back in Season one, so again, I don't understand why you would not care for this plan, which has, in fact, echoes of when Rhaenyra flew to intervene between Daemon and Otto (and first saw Mysaria, incidentally). I'm not understanding why you would have a problem.
nice insight
Those two go back and they can meet. Do t think Alicent would have agreed to meet if it was an arranged meeting. After all to her rhyneara had her grandson killed, a baby.
The tragedy was this episode was written and directed by complete amateurs. From the opening sequence where they SKIP an entire battle, to the forced dragon “Easter egg” to the ultimate cringe scene in the Sept, this episode should remind everyone of GOT season 7/8
5:51
I don't like the way they try make Alicent look innocent in all this, both because it doesn't work and it's unnecessary. There's no need to have "ohh he hold me on his death bed blah blah" story line. I think episode 1-7 gives her more than enough motivation to fight for the throne. Honestly anytime someone tries to guilt trip Alicent she should say "remember the time my son lost his eye and we were treated like criminals for telling the truth?"
I’m with the greens, look what happens when you stray from traditions and customs that every lord and lady follows to the point they’d lay their life down for it.
13:25 huh🤔
Episode 3 was genuinely the best so far, the addition of alys rivers and her magic made it really feel like asoiaf, not to mention how much it added to the characters.
definitely was not the best. especially after that last scene
@@omariadams2828 that's fair tbh I think the weakest part of the episode was that last scene, but for me I found it was my favourite episode with that whole daemon/harrenhal sequence because it captured the kinda vibe I always associated with the books/asoiaf lore.
I think the themes of this episode and the "where does the the conflict REALLY start" is as poignant to the story as it is in the real world today and the conflict we see around the world. I thought it was a great episode, not the strongest but far from the weakest.
daemon not teleport. he sleepwalking with that dreams, and wake up infront weirwood tree. so old magics judge him for all his SIN.
“he might have been gay with his brother” wait WHAT 😂😂