The worst thing for an abuse victim is someone with a savior complex, because no matter what they are told, the one with the complex will believe they know better and that they NEED to fix things even if it didn't need fixing. The daughter is going to learn the hard way if she tries again on anyone else, because it might not just end at screaming.
I absolutely agree with your assessment, but I don't think the daughter in this case has a full-blown savior complex. It's really one incident, and it's well established that her grandparents are manipulative, devoid of any accountability and dismiss any accusations against them. A 16-year-old girl is an easy target for people like them. While kids that age are not stupid, they are also not mentally mature yet. They also lack the broader life experience an adult would rely on to navigate that situation. Her whole world is basically Home, School, Friends, a few websites and some TV shows she enjoys. Her world is tiny, and it's all she knows. And that world, thanks to OP and his wife, is not filled with people like the girl's grandparents. She hasn't dealt with this before and frankly OP and his wife have tip-toed around the subject so the girl was unprepared to encounter people like that and see them for what they were. She still needs to take accountability for her actions, but I don't think OP is dealing with this very well either. Teenagers and adults do not respond to punitive consequences. Punishments work on young kids, up till about 8-9 years old. But there are severely diminishing returns after that. That's why our prison system has an 84% recidivism rate, lol. Punishing teens and grownups is just ineffective. It feeds our need for "justice", but it won't solve the issues here. She's 16, old enough for a license or at least a driver's permit. It may be more fitting if she drives her mother to her mom's therapy appointments. She can wait in the waiting room during the session. I think being a small part of that process may impress upon her the severity of her mother's relationship with her own parents. If she's actively contributing to the whole healing process, she'll be more invested in it and more empathetic. Then, She and her mom can spend some girl time afterwards, grab a bite to eat, catch up. The girl wouldn't be party to any treatment of course, just on the sidelines in a supporting role, and showing her mother that she is there for her. The Social Media ban... that makes sense. That's not so much punitive as it is pragmatic. That appears to be the sole means of communication between the girl and her grandparents, so cutting that off works toward the objective. Swap her smartphone for a old-style flip phone with 12-key texting and no apps. The trade-in will pay for it outright and get them a credit on their bill most likely. Then OP can still reach his daughter when needed, she has basic communication capability. I prefer that to those parents who monitor their kid's social media interactions constantly. Cutting her off cold-turkey from social media is actually less intrusive. When she's 18, she can buy her own smartphone again. OP should setup a strictly configured DNS in his home router as well that blacklists popular social media sites. No sneaking around it with a device-configured DNS on wifi, or using the app on a smart-TV or game console, lol. Kids are crafty, they will find a workaround, you have to anticipate that. Finally, I would not "ground her", but she would be conscripted into limited service. This is a good teachable moment for someone her age. Secure the home. She can help install cameras, put security film on the windows, make sure the door frames are solid and can't be kicked in, test smoke detectors, basic home security stuff. This will put OP's wife a bit more at ease knowing there are extra measures to protect her, and the daughter will learn a valuable skill, hopefully acquire a new perspective on these kinds of situations, and will be actively contributing to the safety of the family to make up for undermining their security. It's just not sufficient with teens to say "You're punished" and then walk away for an arbitrary amount of time. They need to be actively engaged in not just correcting their wrongs, but implementing tactics to ensure that the mistake cannot occur again. That's what's going to deliver the right message. Don't just tell them they're the problem, make them the solution. You'd be shocked how effective it is. When they're invested in solving the problem, coming up with ideas in pursuit of the objective, and they take charge... that's when they take the lesson to heart and stand by it. It's also a good life lesson... "We all make mistakes. What separates good people from bad people is our capacity to admit that, take accountability, learn from our mistakes and make it right".
@Arkryal I think these are really good suggestions, but I'm wondering if the mom might be more triggered at having her daughter conscripted into a support role in her treatment too soon after what happened. If she were to be put in the role of taking her mother to and from therapy and such, I think it should be supervised by another adult who understands the severity of the situation until the mom feels safe. I remember at one point someone I trusted trying to get me to reconcile with one of my abusers and actually drove me to them under the guise of taking me somewhere. It was a horrible, powerless feeling and it made me actively avoid getting in a car with them or spend time alone with them until they understand there would be serious consequences if they ever did that again. I would worry that the daughter might try to drive her somewhere where the abusive parents are waiting or tell them where the mom's therapist is or something. Then again, I'm very paranoid and trust very, very few people with my safety and well being because of this kind of thing. Trust and proof of empathy and understanding really needs to be locked in before the daughter can be trusted in such a capacity. I love the idea of her being made to help secure the home. It would give her insight into the measures abuse victims often need to take to better ensure their safety and give her practical skills to securing her own home in the future. Perhaps sending her to self defense classes that focus on women's safety could also drive home the severity of what happened while giving her practical self defense skills too.
@@SnowyWolborgThat being said, unless it’s willful, ignorance CAN be corrected. She deserves consequence but perhaps a tiny bit of leeway. Not a pass, but leeway. That brand of abuse and evil, like poverty, is extremely hard to conceptualize if you’ve never experienced it for yourself. It’s surreal. You may be able to intellectually recognize it exists, but in your mind, it’s one of those things that just doesn’t happen to you. Until it does. And your shit gets fucking rocked.
The daughter grew up in a healthy family dynamic. People in that situation can’t understand that some people grow up with absolute monsters as parents. Plus, the daughter is at the perfect age where she resents, hates, despises, etc her mom. Put those two together and of course she’d be ripe for manipulation by those two nightmares.
Story #1: Ignorance of this level is...troubling. The daughter is so privileged to have loving parents that her mind literally cannot comprehend what domestic abuse is like. Which is why she downplays her mother's life experience and has some naive hero complex about bringing everyone back together like a Hallmark movie.
Except now she lost her mother's trust and it will be awhile before she can regain it. Like her mother said she shouldn't stick her nose into other people's business.
This is why raising kids too softly tends to backfire. These soft-handled kids could never truly grasp concepts such as ontological evil, familial trauma, or safety by separation.
@@deviousN It reminds me of another story where a guy who was raised in a loving family where he got everything he ever wanted had a complete mental breakdown when he lost his job in a niche field and was never able to get back on his feet. He never seen adversity and had no spiritual fortitude to push back when life got hard because mommy and daddy were always the safety net.
Daughter is old enough to know better, this was a nasty and disgusting move!! After all she knew, she still went on and believed people who she didn't knew, where and still are abusers.
I don’t know. Teenagers don’t have the world experience and mental and emotional maturity of adults and abusers are more often than not manipulative. I would not be surprised if her grandparents manipulated her into thinking they were not bad people and in her naive world view, thought she was helping her mother
@@kiaowens2856 Exactly. The daughter was not a victim of anything. The fact that her excuse for bringing the grandparents into her mother's safe space was that she couldn't believe someone so bad could be related to them? I don't even know the words to describe how ignorant and privileged that mindset is.
Story 1: This is why people should never force a reconciliation between abusive family and the victim of abuse. What the daughter did was incredibly selfish and stupid. Story 2: He’s a sociopath. He’s only going to get worse as he gets older. The mom needs to get a better therapist and psychiatrist to monitor his behavior.
theres nothing a therapist or psychiatrist can do if the person doesn´t want to, just like in military school he just hide is persona behind a nice mask, and just because they would know he is hiding his true self, just because you know something is hiding doesn´t mean you know what is hiding and can´t treat it
@@christinef7739 I don't know what place would be best, but the two worst places are 1) a place where he'll have access to victims and 2) a place that will just teach him how to be a better predator. Keeping him home is problem 1, and sending him to military school is problem 2. She needs to send him somewhere where they'll monitor him better than he's been in the past and keep him from having any opportunities to do something evil. Instead, she selfishly wants to keep him with her and hope he'll suddenly learn to be a loving brother and son by spending a few more years together playing happy family. Which we all know is never going to work. I know I didn't get into ALL of that in my original comment, but I didn't think I really needed to say something as obvious as "he's still a threat to his brother/random girls in the community" when I was saying that he's probably now going to be a worse problem after coming back.
@@FullMoonOctober Maybe you didn't understand my comment. I don't think he should live at home because his younger brothers shouldn't have to live in fear. I don't know enough about military schools to make a judgement call that they actually teach boys how to be better predators. That's why I asked where they should send him. You seem to have opinions but no real solution. And it doesn't sound to me like she wants him at home.
NEVER force a reconciliation between people, even outside of an abusive context. People think that "family is everything" and they don't consider abusive family to be as bad/traumatic/dangerous as, say, partners or spouses. Whether the abuse is emotional or physical, you're better off without some people in your life. In my experience, most people are naive when it comes to family abuse. In my experience as well, people often vilify the child for going no-contact/estranged MORE than they vilify the abusive parent. They get branded as "unforgiving, punishing their parents, unreasonable".
I remember a post about an OP who surprised his wife with her family that caused her to miscarry in her first pregnancy I think and has been NC since then. OP asked if he was the TA and the majority says YTA.
There's no coming back from this. OP1's daugher has fractured that mirror. Usually you can fix it and see cracks. Her actions have chunked that mirror and left a gaping hole in it. I hope therapy works out for them, but man, I think OP1 was too lenient.
Unfortunately, situations like this are not uncommon at all. The daughter's problem is that because _she_ cannot relate to her mother and aunt's background, she decided their experience was not that bad. This attitude is unbelievably privileged.
@@SnowyWolborg yes and this event will help her to understand and grow should the adults in her life allow for that instead of shaming her. you can't grow a flower by yelling at it.
@@SnowyWolborgand she should be grateful for that. Her parents are great. She lives in a bubble that family is loving at that age. But she was old enough she should know better or rather she did but just ignored it.
@@Hal_142 actually, a certain amount of stress is necessary for a plant to grow. Scientists tried growing pine trees in an environment without wind and the resulting root system was too shallow and could not survive a light breeze in the real world. The same phenomenon can be observed when a plant experiences continuous drought. Repeated droughts send the hormonal signal to plants that their root growth should be more vertical to reach any potential water beds. Children are the same. If you don't instill some pain and suffering into their lives, they become soft and weak; totally incapable of surviving the real world emotionally.
Story 1: Jeez that was very stupid of the daughter. I hate it when people want to see the Victim make up with the abuser. Plus the Daughter was already told that the toxic family almost killed Op's wife on Thanksgiving but yet she decided to risk it anyways😒
In regards to story 2 About 40% of personality can be attributed to genetics. The rest is nurture. The child of a bad person isn't necessarily destined to be just as bad, they may not get all the genes that contributed to them being bad, or nurture overcomes nature. Sometimes though a person is just born broken, and they see themselves as normal, so they are never interested in changing. The kid in story 2 inherited the same darkness from his father, and I don't doubt we'll see his name in the news at some point
@@harleyquinn5774 true. You can consciously work against your nature. This is rare for psychopaths like the kid in the story because they typically don't believe there's anything wrong with them, or don't care enough to do anything about it
I don't know if the 1st OP realizes, but what his daughter did showed them that she doesn't love or respects her mother, she doesn't respect OP either, and she doesn't care for the safety of anyone in their family. She stomped all over them in favor of two people that ignored even her just to fulfill a self-made movie in her own head. I hope things work out for the family though, and that at least the younger siblings don't learn from their sister's bad example.
First story: My god this girl F Up she went behind her mom's back and talked to her abusers and even told them where she live if by some miracle she managed to earn her mom's trust back it won't be the same
My jaw dropped when the mother said she sent the son to military school. You've just given him more ammo to use. He is now more in control of his strength. He now knows the proper ways to hurt someone or pin them down. I can't believe that was their solution. I'm terrified for the future victims of that kid.
He is a psychopath. He is cold, calculating, smart and charismatic. There's a high likelihood he will end people one day. Already hurt the puppy and has plans for his younger brother. Maybe be he is a sociopath and can process some emotions because he seems to hate his brother. He is as likely to become a serial K as he is to one day show make up at home and eliminate his family. Instead of her looking at it as nurture vs nature she should just consider sometimes mental illnesses can be passed down; like schizophrenia, BPD and depression. Years ago they would've called him a "bad seed" as a child implying he was born evil. His pass could be the backstory of a thriller or horror movie. Seems more like he was born with a mental health disorder.
Story 1: The daughter is a complete idiot and thinks she knows better than her mother that actually experienced the abuse because she’s never been abused. Story 2: sign over your rights and move away (just in case) Story 3: The daughter was very selfish
@@eveelee4152 I said in story 3 (wedding dress story) that the daughter was selfish. You’re talking about story 1 where the daughter decided she knew best despite being to otherwise about her mother trauma
I remember one post about a savior complex or whatever that involved a rich family and the OP who had a child the family's oldest son and the son refused to be part of the childs life and never told his family about the child. One of OPs friends thought that OP was keeping her child away from Dad and thought he didn't know. After OP told her not to say anything to the family what does she do and tells Dad and his family who were shocked about the sudden grandkid and that their son hid it from. Now OPis worried that they would take her child away and told said friend that they were done.
Story 2: Being a parent is the worst job in existence. It is the only situation in which a person can do everything right and still end up losing. Whatever this kid ends up doing, and all of the people that he ends up hurting, will be on OP and her husband. Parental instincts don't matter when you know you've unleashed a demon on to humanity. Story 3: I feel sorry for Olivia's husband. That selfishness will never go away as well as that need of her to play "Keeping up with the Joneses". She'll be cheating with someone who makes more money within the first five years of the marriage.
My mom had a bad childhood with a lot of abusive family and lemme tell ya, the rare occasions they were at family gathers, I'd be giving them the death stare nearly the whole time. I had to be watched to make sure I didn't say shit to my uncles like 'damn your still alive? maybe next event will be your funeral' I cant imagine having anything to do with them after what they put her thru
So story 1: daughter: hm my dad told me that my mothers parents traumatized her and made her life bad, ill just invite them anyway and not tell my parents, surely this cant go wrong in any way" Story 2: a sociopath, OP is literally raising a sociopath, at that point removing him from the house is the best bet Story 3: its not a matter of why, its the fact that she basically ruined a family heirloom essentially, that is basically an insult to the mother at that point
With the second story all I have to say is The news headline in at least 10 years is going to be crazy like “Crazed man chops up girlfriends body grids her up use the meat for a backyard barbecue” or “Disturbed man found with multiple people chained up and tortured in basement”
S1: I don't think I would have it in me to forgive my daughter after this. -- She was told what was happened, and the daughter didn't give a damn. She invited these people into her mother's safe space. Sixteen years old is old enough to know better. -- Honestly OP should have went graphic. Just so she can grasp the gravity of her actions and how their actions have hurt Mom deeply.
He's a parent, and a healthy loving father at that. He might get furious, but he know there's a limit to it. He might be unable to fully forgive, but Hating his daughter? That's stepping over the limit.
Regarding the first story I would have straight up told the daughter that she was the least favorite child at that point. I would have disowned her and went LC with her for the way she completely disregarded her mother and should have been told that she should be careful that she doesn’t end up with someone abusive in her life so she could be told that she was exaggerating.
S3: The fiancée of the daughter should have bailed after all the BS she pulled on her mother and bridesmaids. These are all MASSIVE red flags about how the marriage will go.
Story 2: Sounds like the boy is a psychopath. If he's exhibited antisocial traits from very early on in childhood, then psychopathic ASPD it is. Takes are that the majority of borderlines are just NPD, and all psychopaths are narcissists due to their inherent lack of emotional empathy. Unfortunately, you cannot fix him. It all depends on his own goals and sadistic desires from now on. You might be able to guide a young psychopath into successful careers that helps others (the brightest of scholars and medics tend to score high in ASPD), but this boy sounds like pure evil and chaos right off the bat, perhaps also self-aware. Op is making a grave mistake sending him off to military school (and the army) since those are grounds where psychopaths flourish in and conquer. What he's gonna learn is how to be more methodical and subtle in his sadism, and find a work field that fits him to a T. Psychopaths are born, their environment can play a significant part in who they become to some degree, but they mostly seek control, success and self-gratification, so they will go where they can get it. Edit: just found out this story is 11 years old 😮
The problem is, no mental health doctor will EVER diagnose a kid as a psychopath. Some are even hesitant to give them the BPD label. If they would stop being afraid of putting labels on and actually help treat this early on, might be better for everyone.
I've been looking for the first story, the Daughter is so delulu and don't even think therapy can help, given she's a teenager and nobody but themselves is right in their mind and eyes and she won't take kindly to being told about themselves 😒 maybe seeing her mom assaulted because of her actions was jarring enough to shake some sense into her.
Story 2: In my opinion Ben should probably be admitted to a psychiatric ward, compulsorily if needed be. He probably can't be "saved", but doing this could probably keep him in check and help steer the wheel a little better than Military School (a horrid idea, btw)
Story 2 is so sad and terrifying. What makes it even worse for me is that there was no right choice to make. She didn't choose to get pregnant, and had she aborted she would have felt guilty forever for taking a life, without knowing what the kid would become. And now she feels guilty for unleashing a psychopath into the world, and for her youngest son's horrible early childhood. So sad... 😢 I also think military school is a very bad idea for someone with such tendencies, but at the same time I can't think of any good solutions.
Story 1: I dislike OPs meddling daughter! I do not blame OPs wife for not trusting her! Those are the consequences for knowing what is best when she was told how evil OPs wife's parents are!
Honestly he should semd the daughter to live with the in laws if she thinks they were good parents. But thatd probably be illegal. I think once she turns 18 thatd be best though
1 is too sheltered, romantic and naive, 2 is basically a medical condition, that is completely untreatable and 3 is massive entitlement. 1 might be considered a failure, but can still be perfectly fine in two years time (especially after seeing, what abuse is) and 3 certainly is the parents fault but 2? There is nothing - absolutely nothing - that the mother could have done differently except to abort the fetus.
@@mrsw2923 🤷♀️ Your mother probably blames her mother/parents too for lots. Narcissists, if that's what she actually is, are made, an unfortunate defense mechanism.
Nature Vs Nurture: my dad raised 4 of his 6 kids alone. I'm the youngest, a boy and girl in the middle, and the oldest another girl. We were brought up with a lot of emphasis on manners and especially sharing and cooperation. The oldest never adhered to any if this. She was an abusive older sister, never good at sharing and would take other's things to boot. Rude and displays no manners and super uncooperative. It's just her nature. She doesn't do it on purpose and we've learned to work around it while still holding her accountable
Ugh. I’m so over people pretending like you can’t tell a kid is going to be a criminal, especially in this category. She’s done everything she can. He’s literally been in therapy since he was SEVEN. You know a dangerous sociopath in first grade. They are, as she says, broken. I’m not saying every kid with mental health issues is doomed. That’s stupid. I’m talking about THIS kind of problem. She knows he’s going to hurt people. She wants him to die before he does. Yet she still has the love of a mother for him. That’s horrific for her.
If I ever cut contact with someone and have a child, I’ll make it a top priority that if my child ever wanted to try and reconnect with them, they must atleast consult me first, and do it on my terms; no one outside/was not previously involved in falling outs tend to have no realistic idea of how severe said falling outs are and tend to take them less seriously.
If anything i would have taken the daughter to meet the maternal grandparents and let her see and decide if she would want a relationship with them leaving out the mother and aunt from the situation.
If they literally abused a child from age 6 into adulthood, why would you bring your own child around them? Just bc she's a teen doesn't mean they can't hurt or abuse them, it's better to tell them the harmful things they've done & cut all contact from them
Story #2 - i see that Demon becoming a cop and reeking havoc on everyone that unfortunately runs into him. He already has no remorse for anything that he's done. And to send him to military school was the last place he needed to be sent. Now, he'll be trained on top of the evil. The mother is living in delusional land and will be on TV saying "he was a good boy" after he deletes someone.
Because there's simply no need to tell them, unless it's really necessary. If you become a parent, how much dark truth you willingly give your children?
@@yesidek I know. They link the original MC creator. Is it really an ai voice? Then they have gotten really good. Sadly. Because I really like real people reading. Ok we have ripe, undersparked, lost genre, markee, really sparked. They should be real people
The quicker people learn movie moments are manufactured, and entirely dependent on circumstances within the control of a directors vision and not real life. The quicker humanity will stop making such stupid actions.
Story 1: The daughter will be in trouble until she's 18. Story 2: The older son is a threat. The guy has to be detained. Story 3: The mother's dress was her mother's. The daughter should have kept the dress intact.
These stories are lessons I think all parents need to learn, you could try to raise kids to be the best kind of people, or the worst kind of people, but they could always turn out different by the way they are raised in the end.
Same. She probably never encountered that level of evil before so she through there is no way her grandparents were that bad. I really don’t understand how taking away her phone and deleting her social media helps anything. OP just does that to hurt her when she’s probably already drowning in her own guilt.
@mikamalach2510 I think it gives her time to reflect on her stupid actions, but I have to be honest it does sound like payback and revenge and not disapline.
@@maxwhite8616 I would somewhat get perhaps banning her from social media for some period of time, but deleting them? Why would they do that? She probably had so many memories and personal history stored there that has now turned to dust. It just feels like too much, and that it is indeed a revenge like you said.
@mikamalach2510 I must point out in a way that this is proof they are good parents. Since she couldn't comprehend the idea of parental abuse, that means she never experienced it and kid tend to think that everyone lives the same.
@@maxwhite8616 I do agree with that. Clearly, they must have been good parents to her. But I think that this one time, they did wrong her, perhaps to the point it might leave some scars. This story is just overall tragic and sad.
I have heard the first story, the daughter is pretty immature for inviting her mother's abusive parents to the birthday party. The mother most likely won't forgive her daughter for doing that. The daughter was ignorant for inviting the abusive grandparents to her mother's party, she's old enough to know, to understand what she had done to her mother. Op in the second story should've sign her rights away so her son could live with his biological father. I don't know if there is anything that can help a kid with that type of behaviour. Sociopath people is something I am not familiar with. Hopefully Op can find a new team to help with her son's mental health. For the third story, the daughter is very selfish, going against her mother's wishes. Wedding dresses are supposed to be sentimental, nothing should change about the dress.
So your daughter wants to keep the wedding dress after the wedding for sentimental reasons but she can’t understand why her mother wants to keep the dress, as it was originally, for sentimental reasons? That girl needs a serious attitude adjustment. You are not the AH.
Borderline personality disorder has nothing to do with being a psychopath. I have BPD and it's basically an inability to have emotional stability He could have BPD but it's definitely not the thing making him do what he's doing Please stop making BPD something that is not. BPD does not make you cruel. Or psychopathic. The other stuff, the cruel stuff he does, has nothing to do with BPD He's a psychopath. Someone torturing small animals and killing them, they're most likely to kill people when they get older Honestly this kid sounds suspiciously like a version of Ted Bundy
story 2 kid is straight up a sociopath. children don't understand social dynamics like he does at that age. not that in depth anyway. the fact he also thinks nothing he does is wrong. my brother was like this. although not quite as serial killer like he still had symptoms of sociopathy and schizophrenia. so I know at least on some level what a mentally ill person looks like. while it may seem heartless it is too late to save this child as after a certain point I believe some people with mental illness are simply too far gone to be normal members of society.
Nah #2 mom needs treatment too. The boy can change and be a better person i have met some kids like him and they came out alright. Thats not to say the boy needs a smart person to see through his facade too and set him on the right course.
@@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259 Donald Trump was put into a military school because of bowling is what I am referring to and his abhorrent treatment of women since
The dress thing. Selfish Selfish selfish selfish Lying, deceit I'm surprised the fiance stayed with her Those kinds of lies will lead to big issues Big red flags Honestly, at that point, I would have gone temporarily nc with my daughter. Her attitude is nasty. Entitled and not considerate There's some big issues there and it has nothing to do with her job promotion. It was always there. She just found a reason to let it out
S1: ESH. Normally I can't stand people who force reconciliation, but considering the daughter is only 16, she may have been deceived by the grandparents, she's just plain naïve, or both. The parents also obviously didn't teach her about respecting people's boundaries, how abusers work, etc. Honestly I hope the mother can forgive her and everyone involved can learn something from this and improve (16 is old enough to know right from wrong, but 16 year olds only have so much experience about the world so I think OP went a bit too far with his punishments. He should've used the opportunity to better educate his daughter rather than punish her for making a stupid mistake).
Story 2: okay I honestly kinda blame the parents. Taking away video games for bullying his little brother won’t do jack shit and it enforces the thinking that the consequences are light or none at all. You know what my parents did, I didn’t just get my games taken away, I got my ass whooped. If I did something bad and got sosnked for it, I sure as hell didn’t do it again. And any of you who thinks this kind of punishment is wrong, clearly didn’t get whooped as kids or whooped enough
Now tell me acc to story 2... post rape should one give birth cause its a sin to kill growing cells (could be life or cancer and they both thrive and they both have future) even though the outcome is devil itself? Thinking of the torture that the r*pist showed to OP (as most of them do to their victims) in story 2.... I'd rather abort if i go through such situation (touch wood i dont pls🙏) its never a good outcome even if the child is inately good there might be resentment from the mother or family member... you might say that the kid who might turn out like this could be jailed... but remember there are many innocents in jail too... torture would only continue.... eff human rights at that point as well
They didn't know if the kid was the husbands or the criminals. Now, why they didn't get a paternity test sooner i have no idea, because there are tests that can be done before the birth, but maybe that was the cost, because those tests are far from cheap.
Story 2: he is broken because you broke him. You have clearly never treated him as your son. Just so kid, who constantly reminds you of your trauma, running around and generation expenses. Everything you complain avout is your fault.
Pretty sure that "You can use this" is not the same as "I am giving this to you". Telling someone they can USE something comes with an expectation that it is going to be returned. Something like that should be common knowledge
@@raeishimura "You can use this." Doesn't set the precedence you want it back. Second thing here, why let someone use your very special dress if you may expect them to have it altered to fit them? You won't be able to use it again, you can't add material back to it. The person who received the dress is definitely at fault for not asking if it was okay to alter/keep the dress (I was in and out for the video, I only have the gist).
@@brighterphantom4530 Eh, it happens. The thing with hand made clothing is they usually have a much wider seam allowance. It might not seem like a lot, but with the number of pieces in a garment letting each seam out a little can add quite a lot size wise. You can also add more width/coverage by taking out the existing seam and adding a lace panel or other decorative piece. If it needs taken in, each seam is adjusted so, again, the changes are spread throughout the garment. There are a number of ways to control the excess fabric inside the garment so no fabric needs to be cut if you are going to want the option to take it back out. I couldn't tell you what those are though cause I'm way to lazy to do it!
The worst thing for an abuse victim is someone with a savior complex, because no matter what they are told, the one with the complex will believe they know better and that they NEED to fix things even if it didn't need fixing. The daughter is going to learn the hard way if she tries again on anyone else, because it might not just end at screaming.
💯👍🏿
TRUTH.
It didn't end in screaming this time. OP's wife had to be taken to the ER.
I absolutely agree with your assessment, but I don't think the daughter in this case has a full-blown savior complex. It's really one incident, and it's well established that her grandparents are manipulative, devoid of any accountability and dismiss any accusations against them. A 16-year-old girl is an easy target for people like them.
While kids that age are not stupid, they are also not mentally mature yet. They also lack the broader life experience an adult would rely on to navigate that situation. Her whole world is basically Home, School, Friends, a few websites and some TV shows she enjoys. Her world is tiny, and it's all she knows. And that world, thanks to OP and his wife, is not filled with people like the girl's grandparents. She hasn't dealt with this before and frankly OP and his wife have tip-toed around the subject so the girl was unprepared to encounter people like that and see them for what they were.
She still needs to take accountability for her actions, but I don't think OP is dealing with this very well either.
Teenagers and adults do not respond to punitive consequences. Punishments work on young kids, up till about 8-9 years old. But there are severely diminishing returns after that. That's why our prison system has an 84% recidivism rate, lol. Punishing teens and grownups is just ineffective. It feeds our need for "justice", but it won't solve the issues here.
She's 16, old enough for a license or at least a driver's permit. It may be more fitting if she drives her mother to her mom's therapy appointments. She can wait in the waiting room during the session. I think being a small part of that process may impress upon her the severity of her mother's relationship with her own parents. If she's actively contributing to the whole healing process, she'll be more invested in it and more empathetic. Then, She and her mom can spend some girl time afterwards, grab a bite to eat, catch up. The girl wouldn't be party to any treatment of course, just on the sidelines in a supporting role, and showing her mother that she is there for her.
The Social Media ban... that makes sense. That's not so much punitive as it is pragmatic. That appears to be the sole means of communication between the girl and her grandparents, so cutting that off works toward the objective. Swap her smartphone for a old-style flip phone with 12-key texting and no apps. The trade-in will pay for it outright and get them a credit on their bill most likely. Then OP can still reach his daughter when needed, she has basic communication capability. I prefer that to those parents who monitor their kid's social media interactions constantly. Cutting her off cold-turkey from social media is actually less intrusive. When she's 18, she can buy her own smartphone again.
OP should setup a strictly configured DNS in his home router as well that blacklists popular social media sites. No sneaking around it with a device-configured DNS on wifi, or using the app on a smart-TV or game console, lol. Kids are crafty, they will find a workaround, you have to anticipate that.
Finally, I would not "ground her", but she would be conscripted into limited service. This is a good teachable moment for someone her age. Secure the home. She can help install cameras, put security film on the windows, make sure the door frames are solid and can't be kicked in, test smoke detectors, basic home security stuff. This will put OP's wife a bit more at ease knowing there are extra measures to protect her, and the daughter will learn a valuable skill, hopefully acquire a new perspective on these kinds of situations, and will be actively contributing to the safety of the family to make up for undermining their security.
It's just not sufficient with teens to say "You're punished" and then walk away for an arbitrary amount of time. They need to be actively engaged in not just correcting their wrongs, but implementing tactics to ensure that the mistake cannot occur again. That's what's going to deliver the right message. Don't just tell them they're the problem, make them the solution. You'd be shocked how effective it is. When they're invested in solving the problem, coming up with ideas in pursuit of the objective, and they take charge... that's when they take the lesson to heart and stand by it. It's also a good life lesson... "We all make mistakes. What separates good people from bad people is our capacity to admit that, take accountability, learn from our mistakes and make it right".
@Arkryal I think these are really good suggestions, but I'm wondering if the mom might be more triggered at having her daughter conscripted into a support role in her treatment too soon after what happened. If she were to be put in the role of taking her mother to and from therapy and such, I think it should be supervised by another adult who understands the severity of the situation until the mom feels safe. I remember at one point someone I trusted trying to get me to reconcile with one of my abusers and actually drove me to them under the guise of taking me somewhere. It was a horrible, powerless feeling and it made me actively avoid getting in a car with them or spend time alone with them until they understand there would be serious consequences if they ever did that again. I would worry that the daughter might try to drive her somewhere where the abusive parents are waiting or tell them where the mom's therapist is or something. Then again, I'm very paranoid and trust very, very few people with my safety and well being because of this kind of thing. Trust and proof of empathy and understanding really needs to be locked in before the daughter can be trusted in such a capacity. I love the idea of her being made to help secure the home. It would give her insight into the measures abuse victims often need to take to better ensure their safety and give her practical skills to securing her own home in the future. Perhaps sending her to self defense classes that focus on women's safety could also drive home the severity of what happened while giving her practical self defense skills too.
The daughter in the first story needs to realise that even family can also be evil and sometimes draining and dangerous to one's well-being.
She's like those people who have never seen poverty and think it isn't as terrible as the rumors say. This kind of ignorance is dangerous
@@SnowyWolborg Indeed
@@SnowyWolborgThat being said, unless it’s willful, ignorance CAN be corrected. She deserves consequence but perhaps a tiny bit of leeway. Not a pass, but leeway. That brand of abuse and evil, like poverty, is extremely hard to conceptualize if you’ve never experienced it for yourself. It’s surreal. You may be able to intellectually recognize it exists, but in your mind, it’s one of those things that just doesn’t happen to you. Until it does. And your shit gets fucking rocked.
Agreed.
The daughter grew up in a healthy family dynamic. People in that situation can’t understand that some people grow up with absolute monsters as parents. Plus, the daughter is at the perfect age where she resents, hates, despises, etc her mom. Put those two together and of course she’d be ripe for manipulation by those two nightmares.
Story #1: Ignorance of this level is...troubling. The daughter is so privileged to have loving parents that her mind literally cannot comprehend what domestic abuse is like. Which is why she downplays her mother's life experience and has some naive hero complex about bringing everyone back together like a Hallmark movie.
Except now she lost her mother's trust and it will be awhile before she can regain it. Like her mother said she shouldn't stick her nose into other people's business.
This is why raising kids too softly tends to backfire. These soft-handled kids could never truly grasp concepts such as ontological evil, familial trauma, or safety by separation.
@@deviousN It reminds me of another story where a guy who was raised in a loving family where he got everything he ever wanted had a complete mental breakdown when he lost his job in a niche field and was never able to get back on his feet. He never seen adversity and had no spiritual fortitude to push back when life got hard because mommy and daddy were always the safety net.
Daughter is old enough to know better, this was a nasty and disgusting move!! After all she knew, she still went on and believed people who she didn't knew, where and still are abusers.
I don’t know. Teenagers don’t have the world experience and mental and emotional maturity of adults and abusers are more often than not manipulative. I would not be surprised if her grandparents manipulated her into thinking they were not bad people and in her naive world view, thought she was helping her mother
That's because her mother's donors are not only abusive but very manipulative.
@@rogueshark23but they didn’t manipulate her, she texted them several times to get in contact
Going to be honest. Your wife is never going to forgive the daughter. 🤷🏾♀️
And considering she was a teenager manipulated by her grandparents, that’s the real tragedy
@@pisces2569 she wasn’t really manipulated. She just didn’t believe her mother. The grandparents ignored the grand daughter but she kept messaging.
She’s valid for that too
@@kiaowens2856 Exactly. The daughter was not a victim of anything. The fact that her excuse for bringing the grandparents into her mother's safe space was that she couldn't believe someone so bad could be related to them? I don't even know the words to describe how ignorant and privileged that mindset is.
@@SnowyWolborg As an adult yes, as a teen, it’s naivety
I almost never condone disownment. But in this case I say yes. She really said they couldn't have been that bad.
💯👍🏿
Lol that's cute
Her being a minor probably complicates things
Story 1: This is why people should never force a reconciliation between abusive family and the victim of abuse. What the daughter did was incredibly selfish and stupid.
Story 2: He’s a sociopath. He’s only going to get worse as he gets older. The mom needs to get a better therapist and psychiatrist to monitor his behavior.
theres nothing a therapist or psychiatrist can do if the person doesn´t want to, just like in military school he just hide is persona behind a nice mask, and just because they would know he is hiding his true self, just because you know something is hiding doesn´t mean you know what is hiding and can´t treat it
"I genuinely wanted to call her an idiot" You are made of the strong stuff.
Military school is such a bad idea for a malicious child that is already using his superior size and strength against his victims.
So where would you suggest they send him? He's a sociopath, that's something that can't be fixed. His younger brother shouldn't have to live in fear.
@@christinef7739 I don't know what place would be best, but the two worst places are 1) a place where he'll have access to victims and 2) a place that will just teach him how to be a better predator.
Keeping him home is problem 1, and sending him to military school is problem 2. She needs to send him somewhere where they'll monitor him better than he's been in the past and keep him from having any opportunities to do something evil. Instead, she selfishly wants to keep him with her and hope he'll suddenly learn to be a loving brother and son by spending a few more years together playing happy family. Which we all know is never going to work.
I know I didn't get into ALL of that in my original comment, but I didn't think I really needed to say something as obvious as "he's still a threat to his brother/random girls in the community" when I was saying that he's probably now going to be a worse problem after coming back.
@@FullMoonOctober Maybe you didn't understand my comment. I don't think he should live at home because his younger brothers shouldn't have to live in fear. I don't know enough about military schools to make a judgement call that they actually teach boys how to be better predators. That's why I asked where they should send him. You seem to have opinions but no real solution. And it doesn't sound to me like she wants him at home.
Boarding school
NEVER force a reconciliation between people, even outside of an abusive context. People think that "family is everything" and they don't consider abusive family to be as bad/traumatic/dangerous as, say, partners or spouses. Whether the abuse is emotional or physical, you're better off without some people in your life. In my experience, most people are naive when it comes to family abuse. In my experience as well, people often vilify the child for going no-contact/estranged MORE than they vilify the abusive parent. They get branded as "unforgiving, punishing their parents, unreasonable".
I remember a post about an OP who surprised his wife with her family that caused her to miscarry in her first pregnancy I think and has been NC since then. OP asked if he was the TA and the majority says YTA.
There's no coming back from this. OP1's daugher has fractured that mirror. Usually you can fix it and see cracks. Her actions have chunked that mirror and left a gaping hole in it. I hope therapy works out for them, but man, I think OP1 was too lenient.
Unfortunately, situations like this are not uncommon at all. The daughter's problem is that because _she_ cannot relate to her mother and aunt's background, she decided their experience was not that bad. This attitude is unbelievably privileged.
@@SnowyWolborg yes and this event will help her to understand and grow should the adults in her life allow for that instead of shaming her. you can't grow a flower by yelling at it.
@@SnowyWolborgand she should be grateful for that. Her parents are great. She lives in a bubble that family is loving at that age. But she was old enough she should know better or rather she did but just ignored it.
@@Hal_142 actually, a certain amount of stress is necessary for a plant to grow.
Scientists tried growing pine trees in an environment without wind and the resulting root system was too shallow and could not survive a light breeze in the real world.
The same phenomenon can be observed when a plant experiences continuous drought. Repeated droughts send the hormonal signal to plants that their root growth should be more vertical to reach any potential water beds.
Children are the same. If you don't instill some pain and suffering into their lives, they become soft and weak; totally incapable of surviving the real world emotionally.
2nd story sounds like a serial killer waiting to happen
yup. sounds just like Michael Myers from Halloween
Story 1: Jeez that was very stupid of the daughter. I hate it when people want to see the Victim make up with the abuser. Plus the Daughter was already told that the toxic family almost killed Op's wife on Thanksgiving but yet she decided to risk it anyways😒
In regards to story 2
About 40% of personality can be attributed to genetics. The rest is nurture. The child of a bad person isn't necessarily destined to be just as bad, they may not get all the genes that contributed to them being bad, or nurture overcomes nature. Sometimes though a person is just born broken, and they see themselves as normal, so they are never interested in changing. The kid in story 2 inherited the same darkness from his father, and I don't doubt we'll see his name in the news at some point
Free will is also a contributing factor.
@@harleyquinn5774 true. You can consciously work against your nature. This is rare for psychopaths like the kid in the story because they typically don't believe there's anything wrong with them, or don't care enough to do anything about it
I don't know if the 1st OP realizes, but what his daughter did showed them that she doesn't love or respects her mother, she doesn't respect OP either, and she doesn't care for the safety of anyone in their family. She stomped all over them in favor of two people that ignored even her just to fulfill a self-made movie in her own head. I hope things work out for the family though, and that at least the younger siblings don't learn from their sister's bad example.
First story: My god this girl F Up she went behind her mom's back and talked to her abusers and even told them where she live if by some miracle she managed to earn her mom's trust back it won't be the same
My jaw dropped when the mother said she sent the son to military school. You've just given him more ammo to use. He is now more in control of his strength. He now knows the proper ways to hurt someone or pin them down. I can't believe that was their solution. I'm terrified for the future victims of that kid.
Exactly, the kid now knows how to aim.
He is a psychopath. He is cold, calculating, smart and charismatic. There's a high likelihood he will end people one day. Already hurt the puppy and has plans for his younger brother. Maybe be he is a sociopath and can process some emotions because he seems to hate his brother. He is as likely to become a serial K as he is to one day show make up at home and eliminate his family.
Instead of her looking at it as nurture vs nature she should just consider sometimes mental illnesses can be passed down; like schizophrenia, BPD and depression. Years ago they would've called him a "bad seed" as a child implying he was born evil. His pass could be the backstory of a thriller or horror movie. Seems more like he was born with a mental health disorder.
Story 1: The daughter is a complete idiot and thinks she knows better than her mother that actually experienced the abuse because she’s never been abused.
Story 2: sign over your rights and move away (just in case)
Story 3: The daughter was very selfish
As for story 1, the daughter is way too naive.
I don’t think she was selfish persay I just think she thought they chance (abuser don’t change at all unless they actually want to do it)
@@eveelee4152 I said in story 3 (wedding dress story) that the daughter was selfish.
You’re talking about story 1 where the daughter decided she knew best despite being to otherwise about her mother trauma
I remember one post about a savior complex or whatever that involved a rich family and the OP who had a child the family's oldest son and the son refused to be part of the childs life and never told his family about the child. One of OPs friends thought that OP was keeping her child away from Dad and thought he didn't know. After OP told her not to say anything to the family what does she do and tells Dad and his family who were shocked about the sudden grandkid and that their son hid it from. Now OPis worried that they would take her child away and told said friend that they were done.
@@rogueshark23 I remember that post.
Op should’ve moved away
Lol, the kid might have peed his bed accidentally at first, but on purpose after figuring out he got special me-time and special me-snack.
Story 1 : Daughter is too fkin privileged that she doesn't realize bad people always exist. OP is NTA but he's way too lenient.
Story 2: Being a parent is the worst job in existence. It is the only situation in which a person can do everything right and still end up losing.
Whatever this kid ends up doing, and all of the people that he ends up hurting, will be on OP and her husband. Parental instincts don't matter when you know you've unleashed a demon on to humanity.
Story 3: I feel sorry for Olivia's husband. That selfishness will never go away as well as that need of her to play "Keeping up with the Joneses".
She'll be cheating with someone who makes more money within the first five years of the marriage.
My mom had a bad childhood with a lot of abusive family and lemme tell ya, the rare occasions they were at family gathers, I'd be giving them the death stare nearly the whole time. I had to be watched to make sure I didn't say shit to my uncles like 'damn your still alive? maybe next event will be your funeral' I cant imagine having anything to do with them after what they put her thru
So story 1: daughter: hm my dad told me that my mothers parents traumatized her and made her life bad, ill just invite them anyway and not tell my parents, surely this cant go wrong in any way"
Story 2: a sociopath, OP is literally raising a sociopath, at that point removing him from the house is the best bet
Story 3: its not a matter of why, its the fact that she basically ruined a family heirloom essentially, that is basically an insult to the mother at that point
With the second story all I have to say is
The news headline in at least 10 years is going to be crazy like
“Crazed man chops up girlfriends body grids her up use the meat for a backyard barbecue” or
“Disturbed man found with multiple people chained up and tortured in basement”
There's a difference between protecting and sheltering.
S1: I don't think I would have it in me to forgive my daughter after this.
-- She was told what was happened, and the daughter didn't give a damn. She invited these people into her mother's safe space. Sixteen years old is old enough to know better.
-- Honestly OP should have went graphic. Just so she can grasp the gravity of her actions and how their actions have hurt Mom deeply.
He's a parent, and a healthy loving father at that. He might get furious, but he know there's a limit to it. He might be unable to fully forgive, but Hating his daughter? That's stepping over the limit.
Daughter probably just wanted more presents.
Regarding the first story I would have straight up told the daughter that she was the least favorite child at that point. I would have disowned her and went LC with her for the way she completely disregarded her mother and should have been told that she should be careful that she doesn’t end up with someone abusive in her life so she could be told that she was exaggerating.
S3: The fiancée of the daughter should have bailed after all the BS she pulled on her mother and bridesmaids. These are all MASSIVE red flags about how the marriage will go.
The daughter was 16, so knew right from wrong.
So nta.
She should have listened and belived you
I hate daughters 1&3, my gid the entitlement is through the goddamnd roof.
Story 1: I can see OP as a dad just making his daughter accountable for her own actions.
Story 2: Sounds like the boy is a psychopath. If he's exhibited antisocial traits from very early on in childhood, then psychopathic ASPD it is. Takes are that the majority of borderlines are just NPD, and all psychopaths are narcissists due to their inherent lack of emotional empathy. Unfortunately, you cannot fix him. It all depends on his own goals and sadistic desires from now on. You might be able to guide a young psychopath into successful careers that helps others (the brightest of scholars and medics tend to score high in ASPD), but this boy sounds like pure evil and chaos right off the bat, perhaps also self-aware. Op is making a grave mistake sending him off to military school (and the army) since those are grounds where psychopaths flourish in and conquer. What he's gonna learn is how to be more methodical and subtle in his sadism, and find a work field that fits him to a T. Psychopaths are born, their environment can play a significant part in who they become to some degree, but they mostly seek control, success and self-gratification, so they will go where they can get it.
Edit: just found out this story is 11 years old 😮
The problem is, no mental health doctor will EVER diagnose a kid as a psychopath. Some are even hesitant to give them the BPD label. If they would stop being afraid of putting labels on and actually help treat this early on, might be better for everyone.
@TheTankjunior they'll start with conduct disorder (the kid version of aspd) and then go with aspd when they turn 18
I've been looking for the first story, the Daughter is so delulu and don't even think therapy can help, given she's a teenager and nobody but themselves is right in their mind and eyes and she won't take kindly to being told about themselves 😒 maybe seeing her mom assaulted because of her actions was jarring enough to shake some sense into her.
Story 2: In my opinion Ben should probably be admitted to a psychiatric ward, compulsorily if needed be. He probably can't be "saved", but doing this could probably keep him in check and help steer the wheel a little better than Military School (a horrid idea, btw)
Story 3: I’m sincerely glad Olivia started to see sense before it was too late. I hope therapy goes well for her.
Story 2 is so sad and terrifying. What makes it even worse for me is that there was no right choice to make. She didn't choose to get pregnant, and had she aborted she would have felt guilty forever for taking a life, without knowing what the kid would become. And now she feels guilty for unleashing a psychopath into the world, and for her youngest son's horrible early childhood. So sad... 😢
I also think military school is a very bad idea for someone with such tendencies, but at the same time I can't think of any good solutions.
Story 2: lock your sok in a mental asylum. Trick him. Make sure he cant get out until reform
Story 1: I dislike OPs meddling daughter! I do not blame OPs wife for not trusting her! Those are the consequences for knowing what is best when she was told how evil OPs wife's parents are!
Honestly he should semd the daughter to live with the in laws if she thinks they were good parents. But thatd probably be illegal. I think once she turns 18 thatd be best though
All three of these stories have one thing in common. They all failed to teach their children basic decency.
#2 is far more than that!
Do you blame your parents for your shortcomings in life too?
1 is too sheltered, romantic and naive, 2 is basically a medical condition, that is completely untreatable and 3 is massive entitlement.
1 might be considered a failure, but can still be perfectly fine in two years time (especially after seeing, what abuse is) and 3 certainly is the parents fault
but 2? There is nothing - absolutely nothing - that the mother could have done differently except to abort the fetus.
@@wednesdayschildfullofwoe Some of them yes. My mother was a covert narcissist. At 58 I still have nightmares.
@@mrsw2923 🤷♀️ Your mother probably blames her mother/parents too for lots. Narcissists, if that's what she actually is, are made, an unfortunate defense mechanism.
S2 some ppl need to meet the gates to the Afterlive earlyer
Nature Vs Nurture: my dad raised 4 of his 6 kids alone. I'm the youngest, a boy and girl in the middle, and the oldest another girl. We were brought up with a lot of emphasis on manners and especially sharing and cooperation. The oldest never adhered to any if this. She was an abusive older sister, never good at sharing and would take other's things to boot. Rude and displays no manners and super uncooperative. It's just her nature. She doesn't do it on purpose and we've learned to work around it while still holding her accountable
Ugh. I’m so over people pretending like you can’t tell a kid is going to be a criminal, especially in this category. She’s done everything she can. He’s literally been in therapy since he was SEVEN.
You know a dangerous sociopath in first grade. They are, as she says, broken. I’m not saying every kid with mental health issues is doomed. That’s stupid. I’m talking about THIS kind of problem. She knows he’s going to hurt people. She wants him to die before he does. Yet she still has the love of a mother for him. That’s horrific for her.
If I ever cut contact with someone and have a child, I’ll make it a top priority that if my child ever wanted to try and reconnect with them, they must atleast consult me first, and do it on my terms; no one outside/was not previously involved in falling outs tend to have no realistic idea of how severe said falling outs are and tend to take them less seriously.
Story 2: that’s antisocial personality disorder, not borderline.
If anything i would have taken the daughter to meet the maternal grandparents and let her see and decide if she would want a relationship with them leaving out the mother and aunt from the situation.
If they literally abused a child from age 6 into adulthood, why would you bring your own child around them?
Just bc she's a teen doesn't mean they can't hurt or abuse them, it's better to tell them the harmful things they've done & cut all contact from them
Story 1:
OP = NTA
Daughter Played Stupid Games; Won Stupid Prizes 🙄😒🙄 !!!
Story #2 - i see that Demon becoming a cop and reeking havoc on everyone that unfortunately runs into him. He already has no remorse for anything that he's done. And to send him to military school was the last place he needed to be sent. Now, he'll be trained on top of the evil.
The mother is living in delusional land and will be on TV saying "he was a good boy" after he deletes someone.
Why do people think that hiding the truth from their children is protecting them?
Because there's simply no need to tell them, unless it's really necessary. If you become a parent, how much dark truth you willingly give your children?
Waiting for the right time, I guess? Even entertainment has age rating.
That dude STILL married her?! 🤦♂️
aah the nice gameplay. so relaxing and such nice playstyle. and such a nice voice.
the gameplay is downloaded and the voice is ai
@@yesidek I know. They link the original MC creator. Is it really an ai voice? Then they have gotten really good. Sadly. Because I really like real people reading. Ok we have ripe, undersparked, lost genre, markee, really sparked. They should be real people
@@SteffenFyep it is ai unfortunately, and ye ur right it would be sm better if it was a real voice :(
The quicker people learn movie moments are manufactured, and entirely dependent on circumstances within the control of a directors vision and not real life. The quicker humanity will stop making such stupid actions.
if you want to borrow someone's wedding dress, you do not destroy it.
Some people are just selfish a$$holes!!!!🤬🤬🤬
Go NO CONTACT!!!
PERIOD...POINT BLANK!!!
Second story scares the shit out of me. He’s only 14 and he’s already a sociopath/psychopath
Yall forget that the grandparents manipulated their granddaughter and she believed them
Story 1: The daughter will be in trouble until she's 18.
Story 2: The older son is a threat. The guy has to be detained.
Story 3: The mother's dress was her mother's. The daughter should have kept the dress intact.
These stories are lessons I think all parents need to learn, you could try to raise kids to be the best kind of people, or the worst kind of people, but they could always turn out different by the way they are raised in the end.
I feel bad for op's daughter she really didn't know that it was possible for monsters to exist in your family
Same. She probably never encountered that level of evil before so she through there is no way her grandparents were that bad. I really don’t understand how taking away her phone and deleting her social media helps anything. OP just does that to hurt her when she’s probably already drowning in her own guilt.
@mikamalach2510 I think it gives her time to reflect on her stupid actions, but I have to be honest it does sound like payback and revenge and not disapline.
@@maxwhite8616 I would somewhat get perhaps banning her from social media for some period of time, but deleting them? Why would they do that? She probably had so many memories and personal history stored there that has now turned to dust. It just feels like too much, and that it is indeed a revenge like you said.
@mikamalach2510 I must point out in a way that this is proof they are good parents. Since she couldn't comprehend the idea of parental abuse, that means she never experienced it and kid tend to think that everyone lives the same.
@@maxwhite8616 I do agree with that. Clearly, they must have been good parents to her. But I think that this one time, they did wrong her, perhaps to the point it might leave some scars. This story is just overall tragic and sad.
I can’t believe that guy still married Olivia 🤢🤮
I have heard the first story, the daughter is pretty immature for inviting her mother's abusive parents to the birthday party. The mother most likely won't forgive her daughter for doing that. The daughter was ignorant for inviting the abusive grandparents to her mother's party, she's old enough to know, to understand what she had done to her mother.
Op in the second story should've sign her rights away so her son could live with his biological father. I don't know if there is anything that can help a kid with that type of behaviour. Sociopath people is something I am not familiar with. Hopefully Op can find a new team to help with her son's mental health.
For the third story, the daughter is very selfish, going against her mother's wishes. Wedding dresses are supposed to be sentimental, nothing should change about the dress.
OP protected his daughter too much...tell her everything, be graphic, show pictures...she needs the trauma to learn from her mistakes
That daughter will hate you forever period
So your daughter wants to keep the wedding dress after the wedding for sentimental reasons but she can’t understand why her mother wants to keep the dress, as it was originally, for sentimental reasons? That girl needs a serious attitude adjustment. You are not the AH.
Borderline personality disorder has nothing to do with being a psychopath. I have BPD and it's basically an inability to have emotional stability
He could have BPD but it's definitely not the thing making him do what he's doing
Please stop making BPD something that is not.
BPD does not make you cruel. Or psychopathic.
The other stuff, the cruel stuff he does, has nothing to do with BPD
He's a psychopath. Someone torturing small animals and killing them, they're most likely to kill people when they get older
Honestly this kid sounds suspiciously like a version of Ted Bundy
You went to east on the daughter
"Forced reconciliation". What utter bullshit is this?
Story 1. They really need to know the truth. Even it hurts you and your wife. I do not think she truly understood what her mother went through.
literally doesn't matter, he told her what they did and she ignored it
2. Story the mother basically pushed him in that lifestyle cause it was predetermined by her she always portrayed him as a rapist
you should send the daughter to live with her grandparents. i leave it to you to select which set.
story 2 kid is straight up a sociopath. children don't understand social dynamics like he does at that age. not that in depth anyway. the fact he also thinks nothing he does is wrong. my brother was like this. although not quite as serial killer like he still had symptoms of sociopathy and schizophrenia. so I know at least on some level what a mentally ill person looks like. while it may seem heartless it is too late to save this child as after a certain point I believe some people with mental illness are simply too far gone to be normal members of society.
Dress story: So your wife stuck that dress in a closet and it will never be seen again. ETA
Nah #2 mom needs treatment too. The boy can change and be a better person i have met some kids like him and they came out alright. Thats not to say the boy needs a smart person to see through his facade too and set him on the right course.
yeah no, someone who is cruel like that can't change
Nature supersedes nurture.
Eventually we all become the product of our genetics.
Sounds like Donald Trump as a boy. I feel so sorry for your family. I am so sorry for your SA. Unfortunately your son sounds like a sociopath.
Donald trump could never h-t anyone
Here we go, the "every evil of the world is because of Donald Trump" narrative. I think indoctrinated to hate people is worse.
@@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259 Donald Trump was put into a military school because of bowling is what I am referring to and his abhorrent treatment of women since
Reads more like a psychopath to me. Bad either way though.
Rent fucking free
wait, she said there was no one else to wear it, but you have a younger daughter?
Dear God story 2 is just really hard to hear.
Really tests the morality.
The dress thing. Selfish
Selfish selfish selfish
Lying, deceit
I'm surprised the fiance stayed with her
Those kinds of lies will lead to big issues
Big red flags
Honestly, at that point, I would have gone temporarily nc with my daughter. Her attitude is nasty. Entitled and not considerate
There's some big issues there and it has nothing to do with her job promotion.
It was always there. She just found a reason to let it out
ok the mother in the second story needs help serious help.
S1: ESH. Normally I can't stand people who force reconciliation, but considering the daughter is only 16, she may have been deceived by the grandparents, she's just plain naïve, or both. The parents also obviously didn't teach her about respecting people's boundaries, how abusers work, etc. Honestly I hope the mother can forgive her and everyone involved can learn something from this and improve (16 is old enough to know right from wrong, but 16 year olds only have so much experience about the world so I think OP went a bit too far with his punishments. He should've used the opportunity to better educate his daughter rather than punish her for making a stupid mistake).
Story 2: okay I honestly kinda blame the parents. Taking away video games for bullying his little brother won’t do jack shit and it enforces the thinking that the consequences are light or none at all. You know what my parents did, I didn’t just get my games taken away, I got my ass whooped. If I did something bad and got sosnked for it, I sure as hell didn’t do it again. And any of you who thinks this kind of punishment is wrong, clearly didn’t get whooped as kids or whooped enough
yeah there is little to no evidence that would work, and with how he reacted to punishment, he would most likely just have become worse
Story 2: Therapist sounds like a moron; military school will not help; he will only become worse as he gets older!
The second story scared me. Like, verge of crying type.
How old was the daughter
Last story
Op i did not raise her loke this
Me: of course you did thats the result
Now tell me acc to story 2... post rape should one give birth cause its a sin to kill growing cells (could be life or cancer and they both thrive and they both have future) even though the outcome is devil itself? Thinking of the torture that the r*pist showed to OP (as most of them do to their victims) in story 2.... I'd rather abort if i go through such situation (touch wood i dont pls🙏) its never a good outcome even if the child is inately good there might be resentment from the mother or family member... you might say that the kid who might turn out like this could be jailed... but remember there are many innocents in jail too... torture would only continue.... eff human rights at that point as well
Story #2 send him off to boot camp
So she had a rpīst child and surprised it came out the way if did?
Not every kid born that way is like that
@@zierragacha5089Yeah and selective breeding isn't a thing. Genes in, genes out.
They didn't know if the kid was the husbands or the criminals. Now, why they didn't get a paternity test sooner i have no idea, because there are tests that can be done before the birth, but maybe that was the cost, because those tests are far from cheap.
You can find paternity before the baby was born.
Not everyone is a mirror of their fathers. You can't predict how much of nature vs nurture will dictate the behavior of a person.
Story 2: he is broken because you broke him. You have clearly never treated him as your son. Just so kid, who constantly reminds you of your trauma, running around and generation expenses.
Everything you complain avout is your fault.
lmao what, quit the bs kiddie
That's fucked concerni bgg the dress, but you never said Make sure we get the dress back as is or in one piece."
It's part of the condition to using the dress that it remains as it beyond taking in, or letting out of the seams to fit.
Pretty sure that "You can use this" is not the same as "I am giving this to you". Telling someone they can USE something comes with an expectation that it is going to be returned. Something like that should be common knowledge
@@raeishimura "You can use this." Doesn't set the precedence you want it back. Second thing here, why let someone use your very special dress if you may expect them to have it altered to fit them? You won't be able to use it again, you can't add material back to it. The person who received the dress is definitely at fault for not asking if it was okay to alter/keep the dress (I was in and out for the video, I only have the gist).
@@Lauria2875 Didn't realize that was in the conditions, so bad for not hearing that part.
@@brighterphantom4530 Eh, it happens.
The thing with hand made clothing is they usually have a much wider seam allowance. It might not seem like a lot, but with the number of pieces in a garment letting each seam out a little can add quite a lot size wise. You can also add more width/coverage by taking out the existing seam and adding a lace panel or other decorative piece.
If it needs taken in, each seam is adjusted so, again, the changes are spread throughout the garment. There are a number of ways to control the excess fabric inside the garment so no fabric needs to be cut if you are going to want the option to take it back out. I couldn't tell you what those are though cause I'm way to lazy to do it!
Why wouldn't you get a prenatal dna test, if i was the husband, i wouldn't stay with a woman who had another mans baby even if it was rape
There'll be a lot more children like that in the New America where both contraception and abortion are banned.
@@faithlesshound5621get off the internet your beliefs are easy to manipulate.
what if abortion was banned, like how the usa is trying to do? saying you wouldn't stay with her is like saying its her fault it happened at all.
you are a horrible person. sure, add more to her trauma after being raped. and victim blaming on top of it?
Story 2: OP’s son sounds like Michael Myers in the making JFC