Vegan and Low Carb Diet Effects on the Immune System
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2024
- Roger Seheult, MD of MedCram explains a new study comparing the effects of a vegan and ketogenic diet on the immune system. See all Dr. Seheult's videos at: www.medcram.com/
(This video was recorded on February 7th, 2024)
Roger Seheult, MD is the co-founder and lead professor at www.medcram.com/
He is Board Certified in Internal Medicine, Pulmonary Disease, Critical Care, and Sleep Medicine and an Associate Professor at the University of California, Riverside School of Medicine.
LINKS / REFERENCES:
Differential peripheral immune signatures elicited by vegan versus ketogenic diets in humans (Nature Medicine) | www.nature.com/articles/s4159...
Plant-based diets, pescatarian diets and COVID-19 severity: a population-based case-control study in six countries (BMJ) | nutrition.bmj.com/content/bmj...
Impaired type I interferon activity and inflammatory responses in severe COVID-19 patients (Science) | www.science.org/doi/10.1126/s...
SARS-CoV-2 Mac1 is required for IFN antagonism and efficient virus replication in cell culture and in mice (PNAS) | www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas...
Early Treatment with Pegylated Interferon Lambda for Covid-19 (NEMJ) | www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056...
Hyperthermia in humans enhances interferon-gamma synthesis and alters the peripheral lymphocyte population (Journal of interferon research) | pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3132509/
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#immunesystem #vegan #keto
The study perfectly answers the question about whether a short term diet plan for two weeks in the face of an upper respiratory infection would improve interferon. It does.
There is no healthy user effect here, because the study was a crossover study, which was randomized and results were highly statistically, significant and consistent across-the-board.
For more continuing medical education for doctors, nurses, physician, assistants, and respiratory therapists, and more visit us at medcram.com
Yet you cannot buy interferon in the US
Plant-based AND pescetarian group showed no significance in alcohol(0.09) and sugar sweetened beverage(0.06) consumption (although it was borderline, but ofc 0.05 is the magic number).
Plant-based ONLY did show a significant lower alcohol(0.03) and sugar sweetened beverage(0.01!!!) consumption showing a clear healthy user effect. I find it extremely unprofessional to not show the correct table when the point of your video is to defend plant-based / vegan diets.
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Furthermore, keto and a paleo diet was not included in the study because they were conveniently removed since they did not reach the 100 participant mark, yet the pescetarian group was included although it was much smaller than n=100.
I don't like how you dovetail into a study that actually tested Keto as if it's the same as the two diets: Low carbs OR high protein (yes they are two separate groups which completely different diet styles). Not to mention 2 weeks on keto is not enough since it takes weeks for the body to adapt to the changes. It's like giving a participant chemotherapy and measure the effect 10 minutes later and say it doesn't work because now the participant has radiation in their body and the cancer hasn't shrunk yet.
Second paper even shows and talk about the anti-cancer effect of Keto which you just kind of gloss over. The Vegan group ate twice as much iron and probably with a lot of vitamin C which can explain the heme metabolism. And I wouldn't put much weight on the microbiome changes since Keto is such a big change that there is bound to be a loss of bacterias during the adaptation period which will be replaced over time. I am kind of amazed however at the amazing changes that the Keto diet managed to do in such a short time span. Usually adaptation progress over months.
It's such a shame. I used to trust you, but you clearly have an agenda you want to push. This is clear at this point.
Strangely this video made me more hype for the keto diet because despite intense scrutiny nobody has been able to disprove it even while acting extremely dishonest and hacking p-values.
Can you give the studies definition of ""Plant Based Diet"? It appears to be different from Vegan and Vegetarian, but you didn't show it. Maybe in the description????
@@treali As I said, it's a crap study and a crappier conclusion
This study indicates that in front of a pandemics, going vegan should be a public health directive, even perhaps enforced by law (instead of confining all human beings at home).
THANK YOU so much for this video. I appreciate you and everyone at MedCram!
My last bloodwork was excellent acc/. Endocrinologist/. Greens every meal fasting as best diet in 7th decade of life
I'm a greens fan too!
When you say "greens" what exactly does that mean? Salad and raw cold leaves, or cooked, green beans, brocolli? Could you tell me what is a typical meal of greens. I am getting there and need to improve my diet and lose weight.
Love the video. As a vegan who do intermittent fasting, this was so relevant to me. Thank you. Love MedCram❤
You're so welcome!
Thanks for this. Certainly the Vegan vs Ketogenic diet study is very much a hypothesis generating study. Despite small numbers and only two weeks of the diet it did provide statistically significant differences in blood tests of chemicals in the body thought to be biomarkers of immunity.
I would like to see a trial of of pure vegan vs keto vs pescatarian diets with bigger numbers and the participants on their assigned diet for at least 3 months.
That certainly would be interesting. However, I think the two weeks here is sufficient if one is considering this intervention during an illness, which requires a boost innate immunity in the short term.
@@Medcram okay so you are saying that a two week long strict vegan diet can be used as part of treatment of a severe viral illness?
My immediate thought had been that if two weeks is good then a permanent diet change could be very good
Yet another pertinent & informative MedCram video! It would be interesting to see results for people who just altered their regular dietary regimen by dieting & reducing caloric intake. This is another video that I have to send to my cousin (M.D.) for viewing! Thanks Doc.... 👍👍
You’re very welcome. My pleasure.
Keto for me not only made me very lean, increased muscle mass but greatly improved all my health markers. Haven't been this healthy since I was a teen and I get sick far less often, in fact I never got Covid yet, but I am in the sun a lot and I workout fairly moderately
same here. primarily carnivour diet but will have some mixed nuts once in a while (trying to limit oxylates and other "anti-nutrients"). toss in some excersize and i feel better than i have in the last 15 years.
Rejoice, I read the studies. Keto, carnivore and paleo diets was not included in the study. They only studied people that ate EITHER low carb OR high protein diets. Which means they didn't follow a particular diet and probably weren't healthy to begin with. In fact people following keto was filtered out of the study.
MedCram said there was no healthy user effect but if you look at the actual vegan/plant-based diet they had a significantly less consumption of alcohol (0.03) and sugar sweetened beverages (0.01!!!
@treali
Also consider self reporting and data quality.
Plus, the more I learn about nutrition, the more I question study methods. Something as simple as what Brad Marshal has shown 2 dietary extremes being metabolically healthy.
On one end, low carb, high fat, low- moderate protein
The other low fat, low protein, high carb.
In between these is bad. So a bit too low on fat and high on carb? Well keto is not so great.
Too high on fat for low fat? Also bad.
Lower branched chain amino acids, and more collagen as the protein source.. helps negate downsides of high protein, possibly entirely.
So.. yeah.. observational studies for nutrition? Near worthless with this data quality of self reporting.
In the end.. I think keto vs plant based is simply the wrong question.
@@treali
Again, the comparison was BOTH vegan AND pescatarian TOGETHER. Sorry.
excellent info thankyou
Vegan for 10+ years and never got Covid 19.
I love your NEWSTART acronym! It sums up pretty much all the elements of health. Nice. Did you come up with that acronym, or is it from elsewhere? I'd love to use it too.
I did not come up with it. NEWSTART.COM
NEW START has been taught at Uchee Pines Institute since 1980s st least. Dr Thrash likely used it years before I learned it there. Uchee Pines Institute, Seale, Alabama
@@meman6964 Thanks, hadn't seen/heard it before.
Great review. I noticed that Fig. 1e "extended data" shows >60g sugar/1000 kcal in the Ketogenic diet. Is this a misprint? If not that would mean the Keto group had 100g+ of sugar. Update: Contacted Kevin Hall and other authors and Nature Medicine will correct this error.
I think an equally important finding here was the Ketogenic diet-enhanced stimulation of adaptive immunity.
Great information
I'd love to see studies on the middle ground omnivore like me. I eat a healthy choice of fruits and veggies, lean meats, nuts, olive oil, and occasionally indulge in alcohol, sweets, and bacon (😅).
That just sounds like a standard American diet lol
The low carbs OR high protein group is basically the middle ground omnivore diet.
Keto, carnivore, paleo is not even considered in the study about covid severity. In fact they were filtered out by the authors themselves. Leaving two very weird groups of people not following any real diet with a severe unhealthy user effect.
Standard american has cereals in it and other sweets and processed food , pasta ,rice . In my opinion she eats in a healthy way .@@ashvio
@ashvio lol ya, you're talking about fast food, lots of starch, fried food, sugar, etc. Dang, I just made my stomach growl.
Most of my recipes start with bacon.
Your presentation skills are truly excellent.
Thank you very much!
Any information on uric acid and metabolic issues? Would love a medcram on this topic
What's strange to me is that the fish consumption between pescatarian and low carb was not different.
yes i found that to be confusing as well.
Glad I subscribed during Covid!
Sadly, until something significant changes, the foreseeable future is during COVID. If that sounds dismal, many of us remember when HIV was on the upswing and survival was unheard of. We find ways of getting on with life.
Amazing content. This explains some personal experience I had these past couple of months.
Thank you!
Thank you. This explains why I have not had the flu, a cold, or covid. I eat a whole food plant based diet low or no oils. I switched to this diet after a minor heart incident, five years ago, where I was diagnosed with arteriosclerosis. I have followed Dr Esselstyn's recommendations and have reversed my arteriosclerosis. I feel great, I have a BMI of 23, and I don't catch colds, flu, etc. Vegan diets are great for long term health and longevity. Thanks again for validating my decision. 👍👍👍🙏
I read the study. Keto, carnivore and paleo diets was not included in the study. They only studied people that ate EITHER low carb OR high protein diets. Which means they didn't follow a particular diet and probably weren't healthy to begin with. Which is proven in the paper.
MedCram said there was no healthy user effect but if you look at the actual vegan/plant-based diet they had a significantly less consumption of alcohol (0.03) and sugar sweetened beverages (0.01!!!
How did they diagnosed your arteriosclerosis when you had it and how when they told you ,you no long have it. Thank you very much
The second paper he showed in the video even says "We also saw higher activation of pathways associated with cancer in vegan compared with ketogenic diet." AND "Our data suggest that both ketogenic and vegan diets might influence cancer outcome, and preliminary evidence supports the idea that ketogenic diet might be beneficial in conjunction with other cancer treatments34, whereas there are no published studies investigating the impact of vegan diet on cancer."
@@trealiplease look at the right hand column which includes pescatarians. Again no health user effect.
@@treali I eat red meat at least twice a week, and other meats at least 2X a day. My cholesterol and triglycerides are pretty close to bacon fat. Never caught COVI though most of my family had it, so was it my diet?
Super interesting! 🎉
This is fascinating. For someone who struggles with interpreting studies, statistical significance, determining whether a study is significant, what is a good resource that you recommend?
I wish I knew which vegetable/s or nutrient improved interferon the most - Mike - GREAT VIDEO!!! Thanks.
I found this I hope this helps a bit? It is a bit of a read and technical. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8702655/
Ty!
so which immune system and diet effects will be more effective against cancer?
excellent!
Isn’t it why ketogenic diet works for people with autoimmune disease? We just have to choose what is important for us individually since it’s almost always a trade off.
@@ScienceNow-clearly not for everyone. Remember, we are all different.
@@ScienceNow- what are you even talking about? So there's no food allergies, or intolerance? Lactose and gluten intolerants don't exist? There's no celiac disease? Yes, there's a lot of individuals differences that if you don't consider you might end up killing them. There's tons of testimonies from people who literally got cured from switching to a completely different strict diet and yes, they include autoimmune disorders and even neoplasias.
@@nuvamusic No, we're really not very different at all. Human DNA varies ~0.4%. ie we're pretty much all the same. The individual diet argument is bunk.
@@NonchalantWalrusParty 🤦🏻♀️
Excellent!
Amazing! I loved that video... Thanks for your work. tAnd I would like to see more videos on diet from you ... maybe forever plastics and diet
Can you do a video on Lean mass hyper responders and the risk of heart disease? thanks doc!
I’m curious about intermittent ketogenic dieting. Like one or two days a week maybe. I fast 10-16 hours every day, I eat mostly fruit, vegetables, hemp, grain and nuts. I eat meat for complete nutrition and plants for phytonutrients.
It would be very interesting for them to drill down on the actual nutrients in the two different types of diet. For example, you can eat a ketogenic diet and get your carbohydrates from broccoli for example. Ketogenic diet you don’t have to get 75% of your calories from fat. You can get more of your calories from protein. or as was pointed out, you can do ketosis with fasting.
In other words, is the improvement in an immunity related to reducing fat? Or increased vegetable intake? Or both?
I'd be more interested in results from calorie and protein equated studies. Cause usually some diets, especially vegan diet, shows benefits cause they tend to eat less kcals
@@GoalOrientedLifting Yes. But at least they did match the groups for BMI.
"New Start" Genius!
I've been boiling my tap water for years because I think the water tastes better after boiling. Prior to boiling, there's 35 ppm in the tap water where I live. After boiling the water in a kettle for 10 minutes, it's down to 10 ppm, and now I may know one of the reasons why. I didn't know that we should avoid the water near the bottom of the kettle, and I'm going to try to figure out a way to do this. I've tried leaving the water to cool inside the kettle before, but I think the water tastes better when glass canning jars are used.
I’m wrong for my daughter and myself. Please can you talk about celiac disease and nevoid hypermelanosis along the blaschko lines? Any cure or treatment? Thanks ❤️❤️❤️
Thank you sooooooo much Dr. Seheult. As always your presentation packed with data and analysis which is very convincing! You give us the update information in medical field.You are the best👍! Appreciate you and your team’s efforts 🙏🙏🙏
Thank you so much
Thank you for the video, I have some questions regarding the studies that was not clarified in the video.
In the first study with nurses, I see that the "non plant-based diets" included both "low carb" and "high protein" diets, meaning the participants could be on high fat-low carb-moderate protein, high-protein-low-fat-high-carb (since it didn't specify that high protein is low carb) and various combination. Also looking at the food intake, if we truly look at low carb diets, you will see a very low percentage with fruit juice, sweets/desserts, grains, etc. Yet, in the comparison, it shows no significant difference between the two groups regarding carbs intake. Do we know how low is considered low carb in their report, were they low carb-highfats-low/midprotein, lowcarb-lowfat-midprotein, since how a person's food intake do impact their health? Are you able to shed some light on this?
On the second report with cross over, I see that "ketogenic" diet is defined as 10% of carbs. For a 2000 kcals intake, its 200 grams of carbs. That is neither ketogenic or low carb with any significant clinical meaning for those treating patients on low carb. Secondly, which comes first is important as it doesn't seem to have any wash out period before beginning with the next phase. This issue was discussed in Nick Norwitz video on the twin studies (ruclips.net/video/0rUk3iw_RfU/видео.html). Hopefully, you can address issues with these studies as well.
Thanks for your question. I believe by definition, a low-carb diet is anywhere from 80 to 240 cal daily limit of carbohydrates. The example here fits well within that range. The authors of the study have reported in their article that there was no statistical difference in the order of the diet. It made no difference.
@@Medcram Thanks for the reply, my problem with the way its reported here is that it's as if people on ANY low carb diet will be worst off compared to a plant-based diet based on the nurses study and the cross-over study. I understand that the researchers choose to use "low carb" accordingly to how its defined in the research. However, when we look at the food intake for the nurses, it is clear that they are not on any metabolically healthy low carb diet (fruit juices, bread, sweets and desserts), same for the cross-over with 10% carbs which can account for 300 g for a 3000 kcals daily intake. None of the diet are based on the therapeutic level of low carb diet. There is a difference in metabolic health outcome between someone eating 200-300 grams of carbs per day versus someone eating 10 grams or less per day. I am sure you are not ignorant to this. Yet, none of these are teased out as part of the explanation, leading to the conclusion that ANY low carb diet is less healthy and having worst outcome than a vegan diet based on these 2 papers. This is one of the reasons why social media is full of debunked video because people are not objective and honest in their presentation.
I am so curious why vegans and keto dieters seem to do well in diabetes prevention or mitigation
Isn't it because diabetes is a physiology adaptation by the body to having too much fat inside cells and by going vegan / keto you can remove this fat and improve your condition.
Hmmm, could be dieters general predilection to eat well, i.e. not processed and not sugared. Keto diets have nutritional and biological reasons why they lower glucose levels, not so sure about vegan, seems like some could overdo the bread and crackers and it be a problem.
It may just be that people who think about what they are going to eat choose better food, in general, with less highly-processed food.
It’s like forest management. A low fat plant diet (healthy vegan) diet clears the clears overgrown and dead shrubs from the forest floor making it hard for a fire to start or spread and a keto diet clears a path around the forest to keep the fire away. Both methods work.
Mastering Diabeties teaches that type 2 is caused by (a) dietary fat, and (b) dietary animal proteins. So, keto does not help and generally makes things worse. A1c will drop with keto bc there are fewer sugars going in the body. But, that's a false indicator bc the diabeties itself is actually getting worse. Also, type 2 is reversable through a plant based diet IF caught early enough. If you try keto first, you may miss that window of opportunity.
Isn't interferon also made by the adaptive immune system via T-cells and NK cells?
As someone who is trying to decide between vegan or keto for weight loss this was very interesting. Were there any findings on weight loss between the two diets?
It was probably too short short of a period of time to see appropriate weight loss.
This is very helpful for me. I have multiple myeloma, and all my physicians think that dietary impacts on my disease is nonsense. For me, protecting what little immunity I will have going forward has me always wondering - do I favor enhancing innate or adaptive. My preference is to work on my innate immune system. I don’t seem to do well with vaccines and experienced significant issues with my Moderna vaccine that took more than a year to resolve.
I highly recommend you look into intermittent fasting, and it’s effects on the immune system. Especially prior to chemotherapy. Look up the 72 hour fast study out of the university of Southern California.
@@MedcramYes, thank you. We’ve been using Longo’s program and will also look at the 72 hour study. Just trying to convince my oncologist that it’s a legitimate approach. Thanks again.
How much carbohydrates for each diet?
What were these subjects eating prior to the study? 2 weeks on a ketogenic diet isn’t long enough. Nutritional ketosis and fat adaption won’t occur in most cases until week four or after when coming from a SAD diet. Would like to see the levels on someone who has been in ketosis for 90 days or more.
Been vegan for 13 years. I'm in great health, build strong muscle, eat a colorful, nutrient rich diet, and I do however get the occasional cold, also got covid once, but has been relatively mild, although Ive been suffering with asthma from a young age (but have been using my inhalers very rarely since becoming plant based). :)
Very interesting video - thank you so much. I recently heard that when someone never gets sick, such as with the flu, colds, or covid, that it's not an indication of a strong immune system. They said the opposite was true because the actual symptoms of being sick are due to the immune system fighting the bug, not the bug itself. When there are no symptoms, the bug is still in you but the immune system isn't doing anything. Is this true? It doesn't ring true to me. I'd love your take on this. TY
Lol I'm sitting here trying to scroll down the file like it's actually on my phone.😂
Great video, very interesting. I am pescatarian, not vaccinated, had COVID three times and it was very mild every time, symptoms only lasted one day.
I went carnivore due to my increasing autoimmune conditions. My thyroid meds have been reduced three times so far, and I appear to be cured of Oral Lichen Planus. We are now sliding toward keto.
what was your diet prior you went carnivore?
How low were the carbohydrates in the low carb diet. If not less than 30-50 grams, those would not be all that truly low carb. It would be nice to know.
It states it in the article. 10% of calories.
I started taking NAC twice a day this winter, and have yet to get Covid the flu or a cold. I’m 65 and during the height of Covid even with three vaccines I got Covid three times twice losing my sense of smell for three months.
Doctor, please including in your study the effects of regular sex and sunlight bathing on our immune system. I experiment on these two during the Pandemic of Covid 19 then I exposed myself to the affected person's without using any form of protections and it turn out not affected by this the virus and also those who follow my advice were remaining negatives. I can't explain in details I only learned this from Community Health Nurse training. As CHW we learned both old and modern medicine.
It seems like they needed a group doing keto-vegan/pescatarian to see if that did the best.
I always wondered if the high NEU5gc in Spanish and Italian diets had some connection with how hard hit they were during the first covid wave. We just assume everyone in these countries is on a Mediterranean diet but obviously not the case. Many consume high amounts of cured meats and frequent red meat servings. whereas other less red meat and dairy consuming countries were less impacted by covid and long covid. The Mediterranean diet seems to have great long term benefits but the greener the Mediterranean diet apparently the better.
Also HelpAdvisor published a list (from 2023 U.S. Census Bureau data) of the top 20 most long covid afflicted U.S. states. With a couple of exceptions (Florida and Rhode Island) these were in the top 25 of 50 for the lowest numbers of fully vaccinated, boosting below 20% of the population and I'm going to guess the fewest number of plant based diet followers...
This is awesome! I have been vegan plant-based for over 20 years (not keto, and not always the most healthy vegan diet). I have noticed that I rarely get sick. I have had the flu once in 20 years. Some years I never get sick at all, even for multiple years in a row. I did get Covid-19 once during the pandemic and it was a pretty mild case. It felt like the flu for 2-3 days, then I was testing negative within 7 days.
Do you take supplements?
This research project did not give a definition of low carb. Interestingly, it gives details of what the other two groups ate, but does not give details of what the "low carb" group ate. If it is like other such research projects, the "low carb" group is not on a ketgenic diet, they just eat fewer carbs than other groups, which is not the same. I really wish researchers would actually look at real ketogenic diets in these projects, because I would like to know. I have been on keto for 8 years, and have never been healthier, but would like to know if I should be adjusting something.
The randomized controlled crossover trial does define low-carb. It is about 10% of calories and you can see it in the video and in the study.
I like what you say and am doing my best to adopt your advice. But I do have one issue that I have yet to see directly addressed by research. It's particularly appropriate with hot/cold saunas. That's the possibility of immune system exhaustion. I have no doubt that doing X may reduce my chance of getting infection Y. What I wonder is if routinely doing X as a stimulus means my immune system will eventually tired of that stimulus and respond less well when infection Z comes along.
I would’ve thought that we would’ve seen that with the Finns.
somewhat keto here, but not strict, only problems during covid were after the vaccine, had the regular c19 case with loss of taste/smell and cough for couple months at the end summer of 19, before the global panda, but nothing that would require any health care, didn't even see my family doctor about it, no problems after that, close relatives all had positive pcr test c19 during the panda time, all non-veggie, just regular diets, none had any complications whatsoever, I was the "worst", and mostly because I gotit from talking in close proximity for about an hour with a person who was constantly coughing (it was before c19 became a known thing, so at the time I thought nothing to it), then I got the symptoms and the long cough, which later were associated with long c19, so I figured I simply received a large initial dose of it, hence the long cough afterwards
almost never get ill, usually recover in a day or two, no serious flu cases ever, no supplements, no vitamins, normal body build, only time I had something serious was 35 years ago ear infection that I had to see doctor for
67 year old male: I have been on a keto/carivore diet for 10 years,. this has significantly improved my health, strength and wellbeing. Have not had a cold, flu or COVID in that time. Up to the ago of 57, I was on a mainly plant based diet, virtually no junk food, exercised, and for many year was super fit, but ended up will many health issues, including almost dying from a heart attach at age 57 (100% blocked LAD), Macular degeneration, was skinny fat, low bone density, tooth decay, Rheumatoid arthritis, colitis , hand tremor, and other conditions. Now 10 years older, on NO meditations, all my health issues are in remission other than I still have mild colitis. IF people are conned by self reported nutritional studies or short term bio-marker studies good for them, as there are too many people on the planet anyway.
Does eating keto affect your kidney lab results in any way?
*Tony:* _"..., as there are too many people on the planet anyway."_
That's a horrible attitude. It's the opposite of what God thinks.
Hi @@planegoodmusic: I don't have any signs of kidney issues. When I look at my blood tests over the last 6 years my Creatinine levels are on average 75umol/L (ref range 60-110), (I live in Australia and some measurement methods are different to USA). Also Urea levels are within normal range. I did have issues for Liver biomarkers ALT & AST and gout for approximate a year when I allowed more fructose/carbs into my diet, removing 90% of foods with fructose solved these issues.
Needs fact check mate. Whatever you have provided is anecdotal reference. Studies done have standards and peer reviewed results. Social media nonsense IMO
How much did the meat industry pay you for this 😂
Been keto since four years. Never wore a mask during COVID and violated lockdown rules at every chance possible. No flu for four years. Got COVID once but it was so mild, I wouldn't have known if it wasn't for the PCR test.
Before I started this diet, I caught EVERY SINGLE flu wave every single year, up to three times per year, being knocked out for at least one week, sometimes up to six weeks.
Keto works.
I wonder if the enhanced interferon production is a result of the higher amounts of lectins/oxalates being consumed on the vegan diet. 🤔
Test is inconclusive. Meaning how low carb was the low carb diet? Ketogenic diet would be total carb count below 20g/day. I never heard or at least missed that info. Also self reported food consumption means nothing.
It’s clear in the video that the low-carb diets in the randomized control trial was well below 20 g per day. In fact it was only 10% for daily intake which would mean it was less than 200 cal per day. This was not done based on a survey, but rather food given to the subjects.
Interesting. 2 weeks only per. What was the washout time frame? Total daily caloric amount of food and food type? Based on “net”carbs or “total” carbs
200 cals is 50g. not keto.
The protein based diet was possibly contaminated by the inclusion of "processed meat" which is known to contain chemicals proven to alter physiology.
Did obesity and leasines can be related with low thiroid function ?
Did low tiroid function be related with low thermogenesis ?
So a vegan diet may improve outcomes in someone with COVID-19. I am curious as to what conditions a ketogenic diet or fasting may be of benefit if any?
Actually, you can do both at the same time. By consuming a vegan diet and then doing intermittent fasting.
A better question may be what risks increase with keto. Bc keto generally means high fat and/or high animal protien intake, it can increase risks for many diseases. The reason each risk increases varies, but the diseases include heart, kidney, dementia, cancer, and diabetes to name a few.
@@kathysharp7551 Show me a paper showing long-term risks of Keto.
Also just to be clear the paper about covid severity was testing vegan diets against having no diet, not keto.
I followed a youtuber that was strictly Vegan, where is she now? Dead. From cancer.
The paper MedCram showed even says that there is an increase in cancer pathways for the vegan diet even compared to baseline while Keto had an anti-cancer effect. And are you high or something, diabetes is basically biologically impossible to get when following a Ketogenic diet.
@@kathysharp7551 Also from the second paper MedCram used in the video:
"We also saw higher activation of pathways associated with cancer in vegan compared with ketogenic diet." AND "Our data suggest that both ketogenic and vegan diets might influence cancer outcome, and preliminary evidence supports the idea that ketogenic diet might be beneficial in conjunction with other cancer treatments34, whereas there are no published studies investigating the impact of vegan diet on cancer."
It actually shows that Veganism activates more cancer pathways than a standard diet. So get of your high horse.
Also, most of the innate immunity change comes from the fact that the keto diet changes the gut microbiome, it is of course gonna get rekt short-term when all the bacteria starves and new one replaces them that are adapted to a ketogenic diet. So chances are these changes will go away after the body adapts and the gut is populated with new bacteria. Furthermore the Vegan diet had twice the amount of iron intake which can explain the higher heme.
Overall this video made me just love Keto more. No diet has been under so much scrutiny but still comes out on top.
@@kathysharp7551risk of disease? No there is zero evidence in any medical publications that low carbohydrate or meat heavy diets course disease zero.... Increased LDL has been shown to be beneficial for the immune system and carbohydrate consumption turns off the immune system for hours at a time, so take your vegan ideology and lies else where 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
You and the researchers suggest that high levels of these immune markers is a good thing. Could it not be show that the immune system is being challenged? Could the challenge come from plant toxins? Is the correct interpretation that the immune system should be in a unchallenge state with low levels of these markers and it's the ability for the body to up regulate these markers when challenged that would show a good immune system?
Interesting comment that he said briefly, you can derive benefits of plant based and ketosis by eating plant based for breakfast and lunch and skipping dinner.
Ok, genuinely curious. Two reasons numbers would go
Up/Down.
1. Response to a dominating infection.
1b. Constant bombardment of pathogens, even if they lack the ability to provoke symptomatic response.
2. Lack of exposure to pathogens of any type.
I cant imagine (I’m no scientist, just trying to make sense of this) that vegetables diets can just “boost” total innate immunity just because. It wants to without some provocation. Could one reason be that raw fruits and vegetables generally have bacterial exposures, even if those bacteria may be harmless, be a reason for a high than normal or increased innate circulating immunity?
I think the reason has to do more with the gut Microbiome. There are substances in plants that only certain bacteria in the gut Microbiome can digest. These bacteria have been shown to improve immunity.
@@Medcram Thank you. Makes better sense now. :-)
It could be because both diets cause effects like fasting does, (Autophagy) body consumes waste, which covid is cells it wants to dispose of. This is why fasting upon a diagnosis of cancer (another virus) improves long term out comes of survival and less side effects of cancer treatments But unless allergic or sensitive to carbs a whole food vegan diet is more sustainable than others for more of a variety health issues.
I read a study somewhere that showed that fasting is the only diet statistically proven to extend your lifespan. You can starve yourself by eating nothing, or starve yourself by eating veggies, there's probably little difference.
People with different genetics eat different food. Pescatarians very often are unable to produce Omega 3 fatty acids. That’s why they are drawn to fish.
We’re only a sample of 2 so not statistically significant, but my adult daughter and I are vegan. She’s unvaccinated for Covid so had to be tested regularly for work. She tested negative every week for Covid but positive for antibodies twice. She never actually got sick. I was vaccinated and had Covid but had only mild symptoms. Neither of us hold the diet to be a panacea for all health issues. It’s not, obviously. Our metabolic panels look excellent though and it certainly hasn’t hurt.
It’s a healthy view to understand that any intervention cannot be 100% effective.
@@Medcram Excellent! The fate of humans is to always want the present and future to be better, but to always accept the best we can get now. Without wanting more we will never get more; wanting more is what motivates us.
@@Medcram my physician told me it was in my best interest to avoid physicians. :)
he's about to retire and is a true gem. going to miss him.
At the 6:43 mark, 82.6 % of never-smokers reported moderate to severe Covid symptoms, but only 2.9% of current smokers reported moderate to severe Covid symptoms. Suggesting that smoking cigs might be even better than a plant based diet. What if you combined a tobacco addiction with a plant based diet?
You're serious?
Don't think so...
p = .64
Look at the p value for smokers, it is very high, that means that confidence level is low. Lower the p value, higher the confidence level of the reported data. So the smoking data are meaningless here because the p value is 0.64.
@@baihongliang Those p values look suspicious to me. Sample sizes are similar to the plant based diet samples. Re-think this one, please.
@@Itsunclegabby Yes I am...do you really want to die from Covid?
Did they test for ketones on the keto diets? Most of these studies that claim to be studying “keto diet” are looking at “low carb” which sometimes includes 100-150g of daily carbs. Maybe this is lower than standard American diet but not truly low carb and definitely not low enough to be considered ketogenic.
10% of calories is well within the definition of low carb.
Assuming a 2,000 calorie per day diet, 10% carbs would be 200 calories or ~ 50g of carbs. That is maybe borderline keto. I wouldn’t be in ketosis at that level of carbs.
I believe 80 to 240 cal daily limit defines low-carb diet
I wonder if the difference were due to a higher prevalence of utra processed food in keto vs plant?
Unfortunately there are more and more ultra processed vegan foods now so vegan doesnt necessarily = healthy anymore. A vegancan live on crisps, french fries, chocolates, cake, vrgqn bacon, burger, pizza and sweetened frappuccinos
Interesting findings. I am struggling to understand why Covid had a terrible outcome in countries that have population that follows vegetarian diets due to religious beliefs like in India, if that diet improves interferons production.
There’s a lot of people. As a percentage they didn’t do too badly considering….
@4:11 early part of 2020.
The problem with the vegan diet versus low carb high protein diet study is not only the self report aspect but the fact the reporters were in the medical community. Doctors, nurses, etc., are notoriously and rapidly anti-low-carb high protein as a way of eating. Why? Think about it. Would they want to endorse something that anyone can access freely that might put them out of work?
Except they there were plenty of subjects in this study that were just that. Low carb.
The population homogeneity also lowers the chance of healthy user bias.
The OR is large
Okay, but is a slightly less severe case of covid worth giving up the enjoyment of eating meat?
It may not be as mild as you think, and instead of eating meat, you might be biting dust.
@@Medcram I'll gladly take my chances. What are the chances that covid kills someone who's a meat eater (whole foods diet), normal BMI, mid thirties, and doesn't drink or smoke? We have the data, and it's very slim.
Thanks for making the video - I asked for you to do it on Twitter 🙂
Plants for the innate, vaccines for the adaptive = win
How many boosters and masks are you wearing today?
Yes. Thank you again for the recommendation.
@@jason.larsenthedanishgreek1226 Umm, people don't wear boosters. No wonder everyone is ignoring you people. Sheesh.
@@shakeyj4523 I wear my boosters thank you very much! The needles keep the virus at bay. It pokes it 🤣
@@RXP91 Teeny tiny little needles!!! Do you look like a Saguaro Cactus? 🌵😆
That's not keto! Keto means 20g or less of carbs/day.
That would be the case if this were an 1800 cal diet. Please look again.
👍👍
Isn't 10 percent carbohydrates way too much? I eat less than 4 percent carbohydrates.
As someone with advanced training in epidemiologic methods, I would humbly submit that you need to seriously brush up on current thinking about the use of the term "statistically significant" as a measure of effect in front of lay audiences.
Except that the randomized control trial was not an epidemiological study
@@Medcram Even for proper interpretation of an RCT, you need to specify the magnitude of effect that the study was designed to detect. In other words, as you know, "statistical significance" does not equate to clinical significance (which is why the editorial boards of many biomedical journals have long had a policy of requiring some measure of possible effect such as confidence intervals across the board).
This would be especially true for "clinical" studies that had implications for population health and not just for a target group of patients.
So this tells us that being omnivores, that a well balanced diet of meat and vegetables is the best way to go. Gee who would have thought lol
Interesting, but does not even get into the QUALITY of whatever 'class' of diet is eaten. I'm far more concerned with quality as a pathogenic outcome predictor. And, if junk food is eaten, while junk light is eaten, how many confounders can we really count here?IMHO
The randomized controlled crossover study has no confounders. It is literally the most powerful study design there is.
❤❤❤😊
I have heard it said that vegans do wonderfully well, enjoying many health benefits and improved sense of well-being, for about five years of being on the diet. Then things start going downhill and is about the time they will switch to vegetarian with meat as craved.
A pregnant vegan I know did this. She said the urge for beef was so overwhelming that she indulged and had no regrets. We agreed her baby obviously needed meat. And my own family MD said the babies of meat eaters are overwhelmingly doing better than the babies of vegans.
Nonetheless, I believe vegetables are vital with very few exceptions in humans. It stands to reason that photochemical absorption is better from veggies than meats, but I know of no studies addressing this.
Correct me if I am seeing this wrong, but the biggest difference between the two diets is the carbs, and more carbs seems to be beneficial for the innate immune system and interferon production.
No, its the less or lack of animal products
Key to for “two weeks”? That is the transition time…… silly study. Needs to be greater than two months+
Not exactly. This is an interventional diet in a regular person to affect immune changes needed for an acute infection. Two weeks is plenty.
Isn't interferon a marker for inflammation? If so, isn't well know that ketones reduce inflammation and so the conclusion that a ketogenic diet has reduced interferon should be obvious... Also, your body does not remodel its metabolism in 2 weeks. Unless you are already metabolically flexible, your body is still going through significant changes when the researchers are sampling data. This is typical of Kevin Hall's work.... dubious....
Facts are facts,but explaination need more search.
I think "turn of the century" meant the 19th-20th century lol
It did.
only question i have is who paid for the studies?
The links to the studies referenced are in the description and contain that information.
People are good at hiding who pays. @@PKWeaver74
There many better questions to have asked.
A: Funding doesn't invalidate a study
B: Your question is answered in the description and surprisingly isn't funded by big broccoli
C: Do you question the science for your Carnivore diet... Oh wait there isn't any that shows it's any good
If the only thing you can't stomach is a steak you should see a doctor buddy so you can't get on a healthy diet backed by science and not idiots like Shawn Baker, Ken and Paul.
Anyway hope you get your gut fixed
Your mother: « eat your veggies »
I don’t understand why the outcomes for vegan/PBD diets trigger ppl so much. Ppl go hard getting defensive about these sort of analyses. Don’t get me wrong, i love meat and miss it, but If ya know, ya know.
2 Weeks is in no way long enough to give you good data on these diets. Its interesting but they need to do this over 3 months.
But apparently it is because it made statistical significance
@@Medcram Yes but there was no statistical significance around the long term affects of a certain recent medical intervention. Turns out over longer time frames things can indeed change.
how about a vegan + ketogenic diet? yes, they are out there…
Yes, we mentioned that in the video
Time to breakdown NEWSTART into “practical” videos.
Yes. And we have!
Fasting - I thought one had to go 72 hours without food before entering ketosis. If so, skipping dinner won't do the trick. (Disclosure: I support wfpb not keto...so check my facts if you disagree.)
Actually, intermittent fasting can have an effect, although there is more of an effect at 72 hours - true.
@@Medcram thanks!
I wish people would use your words instead of acronyms.
I dont think 2 weeks is long enough to get the benefit of a ke to style diet
Two weeks is plenty if the object is to increase interferon in the short term to fight an infection.
keto is terrible for you long run
well, had I not gone keto I would be dead by now... so...
Vegan and keto are not necessarily mutually exclusive, diets
well, I am glad you say so... It is so hard for me to see the constant attack on keto... I come from a family with many deaths due to diabetes... for me keto was a blessing... thanks @@Medcram