Coming from a classic E61 dual boiler, I absolutely love my decent de1XXL. Maybe the first week I missed the pulling of the lever feel and the chrome look. But now every time I start a shot I enjoy watching the what actually happens on the display. The heat up time is absolutely fantastic. No waste of energy. The drip tray and water tank go in the dishwasher. More steam power than my old dual boiler (XXL version), -simply better foam. Combined with the acacia lunar I get every shot how I want it every time (+-0,6g). I used noisekill material to reduce the sound a bit. Now I really enjoy it because you hear the clicking & what’s happening and the silence in between when your shot is blooming. Also regarding mouthfeel I pulled very thic shots by increasing the dose and using a more traditional baskets. Just put in you LM basket and check the headspace. For me with a process engineering background it‘s a great machine. Sure there are things that could be improved and hopefully the industry will. The decent has changed espresso completely and started a change away from wasteful unpractical „we do it like always“ designs in the industry. And that’s great to see 😊
We own 3 de1xxls on our cafe. That decision has paid dividends. The noise is negligible here, since the cafe is more noisy than a home. Nevertheless, people grow to love the noise. We can make anything any customer wants, specified to any beans we roast and serve. Also, the any new product on the market feels like it can be or is adapted to the decent (unibasket, filter 3. Etc.). It is interesting that it takes more effort to make a thicker shot due to headspace concerns. But it's easily fixed with spacers or smaller baskets and higher doses. We plumb in all our machines to avoid drip tray issues I understand the desire to keep things more manual if that's how you started with espresso, however we get more joy out of changing so many different variables and putting in the work on the front end and then watch our puck prep, roast and machine do the work in real time. Really watch the graphs as the move and see the result in the cup
Started with a La Pavoni for years and recently added a Decent to the collection. I love it. Noise doesn’t register for me, and I really like having the data feedback on the tablet. I don’t miss the La Pavoni, but I feel like I’ll come back to it later, armed and ready to make way better shots.
A machine that gives you total control of every aspect in the cup at every roast level is impressive, computer or not. I've had mine 4 years now with no issues. We all hate the sound of the pump, but it gets the job done.
Glad you gave it a good go. I have had my DE1PRO for a year. For me it has been excellent. It is fast, consistent, almost all my family can use it with minimal instructions. One of best purchases I have made. I am a petrolhead and can’t switch to electric cars but on a day to day basis when it comes to espresso machines i am far more interested in tinkering with different variables than the feel and sound the machine makes so it works for me. Also i could not find a traditional machine that beat its heat up time and small footprint without making some compromise. It’s a very well thought out machine, I don’t think there are many products in the world that have undergone as much thought as John and his team at Decent have put in to this constantly evolving platform. Perhaps I will add an inexpensive lever machine one day but for now I am wholly satisfied. The only gripe I have is filling the water tank/ceramic tray is a chore.
I have had my De1 for more than 2 years. Been thru quite a number of machine (some high end ones) i still feel the De1 is one of the best in producing taste shots.
Had mine since February and love it! There definitely needs to be a beginner guide start up guide to start using it. The auto purge, mobility, start up time, presets, and auto clean preset does it for me.
I've had mine for almost four years. Much of what you say is true and the aesthetics are a drawback. But the upsides are huge including things you didn't mention such as tiny footprint and low weight, ease of maintenance, and incredible support by Decent. I don't experiment with different coffees and profiles, but being able to fine-tune my profile to taste is something that can't be done with most machines- certainly not as easily. Maybe there are failure points in this machine, but mine has been flawless so far... Good discussion!!
I've had a decent for about four years too. I really like it, but not for the reasons that I expected to. Sure, it makes great coffee and milk, it would be insane if a 4k machine didn't, but it's the quality of life stuff that does it for me - small, fast to heat, easy to clean, repeatable. I thought I would be constantly tweaking profiles, but I have ended up with a handful of go-to profiles that I use all the time instead. I'm a techy so I think that's why the computer nature of it doesn't bother me. Don't love the noise but not a deal breaker. Compared to my old e61 it's night and day, I would never go back. I didn't think I'll change to a new machine but maybe at some point I'll add a lever machine as well for those times I crave the physicality that is definitely lacking... Good review - even, and fair. It's a good machine, but like everything definitely not perfect, and definitely not right for everyone...
The Decent's profile are a little like a car seat. It comes with a wide range of adjustments, not because you are expected to play with it every day, but it's to help you get comfortable
Spot on! After years of eying and never warming up to the Decent, I found that right balance for me in the Sanremo You - strong capabilities, beautiful, fast, quiet, pure joy. I hope SR delivers the flow based profiling on top of the pressure profiling it currently supports. I see some R9 owners share similar sentiment.
Best thing with the Decent is you can do just about anything with it. Over the last year I’ve almost exclusively only made Sprovers and now been diving in with Filter3. It’s just an incredible tool for exploration and can adapt to your tastes over time.
Thank you so much for this video. This one is especially helpful for me. I have a GS3MP but I also have a 1969 La Pavoni as well. (Lagom 01 with blind 102mm for home and Lagom mini for travel.) Being part of this espresso community, you definitely hear a lot about the Decent. I never really had any fear of missing out but I was very curious as to the user experience. Your review helped a lot in that regard. For me, having the tactile experience is paramount and I share your dislike of the sound the decent makes. It has been a deal breaker for me from the first time I heard it. What I find so fun is being actively involved in the shot in real time. It is so exciting when things go right. True, it has taken many years to get to where I am more than content with my shots, but I have never gotten discouraged. This is due, in part, because there is so much good content online helping home baristas in this challenging endeavor. Again, thanks for all of the tips and help. It is a pretty rare thing to enjoy espresso this much, but even harder when you are doing it at home and learning as you go. When I am traveling and using my La Pavoni daily, I have shots of espresso that not only rival my GS3, they sometimes surpass it, which is a little crazy. So it was with a certain joy and excitement that I heard you finish the video with the idea of further exploring the lever machine situation. (I will say that I am not drawn to the newer style of lever machines that seem like they are bordering on being a hybrid of a Decent and a lever.) I do share some of your frustrations with the GS3 but when I have guests over and need to pull a bunch of shots it really shines and is also a lot of fun to use. Doing something like that on the La Pavoni is just not very easy. Excuse the ramble, but no one really gets this stuff except others who have the same affliction/passion. Excited to see what is next for you. Happy Friday...
I have the latest iteration of the DE1 Pro, which addressed the headspace issue to get more mouthfeel. Combined with using puck screen and the very wasted basket I get plenty of body for my milky drinks, which is what I drink 95% of the time. I love the noise as it informs me in a very tactile way what is going on with the flow. Steaming is fantastic. The fast heating time, tablet control I see as big plusses. Spro is right, you either love this thing or can't stand it. Be interesting to see if the upcoming Bengle addresses some of the typical concerns.
I wanted a decent for many years and thought it would be the end all and be all and 10 years later when I finally read and listened to all the reviews, I decided I could not be without mouth feel and texture and decided lever was the better way to go. The sound was a non starter for me... All though I like the decent efficiency. My lever tank runs dry quickly I have to refill at the end of every session and clear the drip tray.. Annoying but not horrible, I am beyond thrilled and glad Decent exist and will only get better.
I've had mine for about 6 months as well. Being very technically oriented, the Decent has given me everything I wanted and more. I feel like I've just touched the surface. I've tried multiple profiles and ultimately one does settle on their favorites. But the ability to switch between those favorites with the touch a button is what this machine is about. I suppose for those people that feel a connection to a traditional sounding machine, the Decent's sound may be a detriment. I for one, have become used to that sound and in fact, the sound tells you much of what the machine is doing. As for the espresso produced, it's some of the best I've ever tasted. From teas to Allonges to traditional espresso the ability to tune all the factors that go into making good coffee is par none. This machine may not be for everyone, but for those that appreciate the ability to tinker and experiment it has no equal. I'm waiting for my Bengle.
No mention of the open source idea behind all the software? I created an alternative iOS/Android App for this machine (despresso) - which goes a bit different ways on handling profiles/recipes. What about the extremely short heating-up time? Very energy efficient compared to the classic boiler based approaches.
Enjoyed your review, two areas of disagreement though: 1. Reliability implied by failure points. Have owned my decent for 5+ years and machine has been incredibly reliable. 2. Calling John thin skinned - I would consider him to be super transparent and in it to improve the future of espresso. I appreciate your comments on the feeling of machines - and I see a lever in my future, but that would be in addition to the Decent , not replacing it.
Decent is fantastic, the temp stability and quality of shots it can produce is great. If you want to keep up on the trends an innovations in espresso brewing it is the best tool out there. Pair it with a level machine like a strietman ct2 and call it day.
I won't go back to a regular boiler machine. Those still need to be descaled, which the Decent doesn't require. I love my DE1Pro, especially for its Turbo shot feature. It's been over three years, and it still works great. Maybe I'll upgrade to the improved Decent model someday, but not to a regular boiler machine. I really like how it performs.
The one thing that hasn’t been mentioned here is the feedback/data that the Decent gives you. The data plotted on the screen for each shot gives you a lot of information for dialing in and puck prep. This data has helped me be very consistent when I want to and is great when I want to experiment. The other feature is the fact that this machine can emulate any type of espresso machine that has been made so it gives you a ton of flexibility.
I think this is the unique point of this machine. You can compare shots you did yourself, share shots, discuss them with other people to find hints to optimize your preparations.
I decided against the decent this year after savning for a couple of years and went with a Spring lever machine. I really wanted the tactile feeling and that low parameter to change type of machine. I envy the heat-up time but have solved it with programsble sockets. Great review, touches pro’s and cons, usability and outcome feel. Seems very objective which is nice.
Was actually on the fanboy path for a while but then veered off wildly and bought a Linea Micra. So happy i did, its awesome and makes consistently great espresso - assuming the user knows what they are doing.
I recommended the Bianca to a family member based on your review, instead of the decent, because they were apprehensive about the digital brewing process and wanted a more manual experience with the opportunity to still control the brew. They are extremely happy over the last few months since their purchase.
The Lelit Bianca seems to be the consensus gold standard for semi-automatic home espresso machines at this point. Who knows, tomorrow that may change but for now, here's to many great espressos.
Had my Bianca for almost a year now (my first "big" machine) and wouldn't trade it for anything, it's all I wanted and needed in an espresso machine, at a great price.
Bianca is great, but not perfect. I’ve seen multiple trustworthy reviewers say it doesn’t have great shot to shot temperature stability unless you wait a bit between shots for it to get back to equilibrium, and do a flush as well. Also, even though it heats up pretty fast for an E61 style machine, it still takes longer than saturated group or thermoblock / thermocoil machines. Both of these issues are kind of inherent to the E61 design as far as I understand, so shot to shot consistency and heat up time probably can’t be improved much more without going away from E61.
Very well said. I also love the espresso mine makes, but don’t always love the machine. But for me what ends up in the cup is more important than the experience of making it.
The appeal of the Decent for me is the crazy amount of flexibility, form factor and water/power efficiencies. I don't know that I could get used to the quirks that come with it, but the main show stopper is the price. I will stick with my Robot and Bellman and continue to enjoy the tactile process with some extra money in the bank.
......Dear Sprometheus, I just heard your comment about the Decent noise..... I call it the Decent voice.... after a few months now of happily using my decent (I already got some of the best espressi of my life), the continuously changing sound of this voice tells me quite clearly what is happening on the puck.... if You know your chosen profile well, you can hear if the shot is ok or not, just by ear. You do not have to look at the graphs or the group head..... it is a language that you will be able to understand after a while..... maybe you do not like a person's voice, but that doesn't matter so much, if that person is dear to you. Even an unpleasant voice will tell you what is going on in a person, if you are able to hear it. In this moment, being on a trip for a while, I am already missing my decent`s noise..... All the best from me to You, my friend! .... how subjective these things are.....
Im one of the middle of the road persons. At home im brewing with my Bezzera Strega and my only complaint is the 20 mins of heating up. But the Decent seems like a very interesting tool to play around with. I like things like its water tank and general design. I do not care about extras or UI because i dont own one. It will definately bring news to espresso brewing and this cant be bad. To you as a yt creator it seems like to be a must have. If there is no clue what to discuss next just go with your finger along that long list of different brews, pick one and make a video of it. Or get yourself a spring lever too and do a video on wich one delivers better.
I'm a Function over Form person who wants delicious coffee. The Decent does that and improved my knowledge of making espresso more in one year than the 13 years I spent with a Quickmill Anita. And, going back to being Function over Form, the talk about pump noise and a shallow drip tray being deal breakers just sounds ridiculous to me. The positives so outweigh little nits as to tip the scale over! And, one of the best things about the Decent wasn't even mentioned which is an integrated scale and the ability to SAW (Stop at Weight) at exactly what you want in the cup. Also, one of the Skins allows me to weigh the milk and adjust the steaming time to exactly what is needed. A 90 second warm-up time. The ability to save every shot ever pulled. I have all my bean and shot data and can get a new bag of beans and in 10 seconds pull up the grind setting I used last time. Some people find the way it looks a deal-breaker. Well, hey - fine! Just stop there and don't make up a bunch of silly justifications that are minutiae compared to the positives. Oh, and my Decent is going on 5 years old and the only thing I have done to it is routine maintenance like changing the gasket. All that said, if someone says that pulling a lever floats their boat then I have no issue with that. In my mind you either own a Decent or a Lever machine or maybe both. :)
A few thoughts here… - noise - yeah, it can be distracting, but to me it’s actually a way to perceive what the machine is doing. Each “click” is equivalent to X ml being pushed through the system. I think of it as an auditory feedback equivalent of the tactile feedback you’d get on a lever or paddle machine, especially when you use the pressure/flow manual touch controls. I also want to add that for a pair of vibratory pumps, this is not bad at all. Compared to a cheaper machine like a Gaggia or Breville (even the Oracle), the DE1 appears to be quieter, at least to me. Moreover, some profiles (including the default) are not as jarring as the Londonium (educated guess based on experience) which was used to illustrate the noise in this video. - longevity/repairability and boiler vs. thermoblock design. I can’t speak to longevity, except for the fact that the warranty is “infinitely” renewable and includes two-way shipping to Hong Kong from anywhere in the world. I can certainly appreciate this machine’s repairability. For the most part it uses “off the shelf” components, and most importantly, is completely repairable, with detailed guides/walkthroughs for DIYers. - shot body/mouthfeel: I learned that this can be improved with headspace reduction, particularly for darker roasts. Yeah, it’s an added cost that should probably be included as a value-add.
You have to deal with either a perfect temperature control (like is is done with two pumps in the de1) or with an estimated/guessed temperature (most machines measure the temp of the boiler water, not in the portafilter) but one nice and silent rotary pump... I will go for more control and deal with the noise - which is not really annoying after you heared it a few times.
Full respect to you Spro, you bought the DE with your own money, you gave is a fair crack of the whip and explored it for six months or so wiith what appears to be an open mind. You and I disagree on one thing (body and mouthfeel are top notch on a DE if you get puch depth and head space right) and we value different aspects of a espresso machines, but kudos to you for giving it a go.
>body and mouthfeel are top notch on a DE if you get puch depth and head space right I had mine with original head space and upgraded one. No perceptible difference, except the drier puck. In fact, I'm sure that in proper blind tests no one would reliable distinguish one vs another. It is all in the mind, not in reality. In fact, I challenge all coffee snobs here and in HB or any other forum full of self-claimed coffee experts in the world to prove opposite: perform a proper blind test and prove that there is a statistical difference between coffee made by DE with difference head spaces. Heck, people were not able to reliably distinguish difference between two absolutely different grinders (EK47 vs Nich, search for old home barista topic), and one saying that 2 mm of head space on the same machine will make a difference?! Sure.
I don't think most people use the manual flow control feature maybe because they didn't know it has it. I think the general use case is a repeatable profile otherwise its kind of like using an e61 machine with flow control which is not really fun or repeatable.
Interesting review. I prefer something that I control without having to think about a lot of options. You ended with a statement about going back to a spring lever machine. At the age of 77, that is where I am and I am happy. My main issue is choosing the beans that I roast and the success of the roasts to get to great espresso experience. Love your channel.
Don't own a Decent, and have no desire to own one, but I respect what it's done for the industry in bringing tech to what was largely an analogue world - kind of like those bands that never made it big, but their influence is obvious on massive bands from the following generation.
Been using the Decent DE1Pro for 3 years. I would agree "it does everything you want but not the way you like it". And after a few years, you'll generally narrow down to a few profiles that you'll actually use. But I would like to emphasise that the dynamic profile ability of the Decent is more useful than you'll think. Let's say you're getting a 150g bag of rare expensive coffee. The decent has profiles that can pull a "not bad" shot until you primed your shot. For traditional machines the shot can be undrinkable until you wasted like 4 shots, which by the time you don't have much left... Another key is the fast heat up time of like 3 minutes, if I want my coffee I pull it, no more "start your machine 30 minutes before you pull" annoyance. For the noise issue it's not affecting me much and I would say if it's like 1 minute of noise, it's not really a problem. For the price of the items like cover etc., John would always say the high price is due to their small batch size which is reasonable but for the consumer point of view it's more like "if you don't want to afford the over price then get an alternative" which is quite true, as the cover and everything Decent offer has easy alternative options in the market.
As A DE1XL user, I fully agree with you. That's a great machine with great potential. But the price does not deliver all the things that should be delivered at that price. In my opinion, beside the drip tray cover, they should add to any machine the flow calibration basket, that's a must have accessory. Another issue is that looking for data and basic knowledge on the machine by reading 100+ comments threads on the Diaspora is a bit of a pain. For example the filter 3.0 there is no correct way to use it, you have to read 750+ comments on the thread to see how people accomplished how to use it. I love that machine, but I feel bad about the price I paid for it.
@@ShalevAbuhatzeira LOL I had the same experience trying to figure out filter 3.0… someone just make a video that’s easy to understand walking us through it plz
All in all a very objective review. I’ve had a decent for 2 years and like it. Lever profile and gentle and sweet are my preferred profiles. The ability to easily change temperature and pressure gives the machine the ability to seamlessly change from shot to shot. The graphics interface to me highlights where you can improve your shot. I’ve gotten used to the noise. It’s just different from what you would expect.
Thank you for the video. I nearly went down this rabbit hole and then swerved away. I love my espresso from a more traditional 9 bar machine. For those who have a Descent and love it, well done and may it long continue to provide you with the variety and different styles of coffee that you enjoy.
I desperately wanted a decent. And i wouldn't have minded the sound coming from a silvia. I stumbled across a steal of a deal on a londinium spring lever, and i am in love with the whole ritual.
Regarding repairibility. All the parts are basicall user servicable besides the electrical parts. Nothing needs to be welded like in any other "traditional steam machine". Of cause things can break. As far as I followed the support forum - it will be fixed in no time. Ok, if you see this machine as a life-time supported device - you can buy a 2 year extended guarantee after the first two years (included if I am right), but another years... So it is perpetual as long as the company exists... Which machine is providing this kind of service?
Watching this review feels like listening to a gasoline car enthusiast talk about electric cars, saying, "I like what it does, just not how it does it." You know, like comparing electric to gas. "Oh, I really miss the smell of gasoline. I loved those trips to the gas station. So delightful!" I've had this Decent machine for 4 years now, and let me tell you, it’s the Tesla of coffee.
So the Decent over-promises and under-delivers, is rapidly being overtaken by it's Chinese competitors and is continuing to barely refresh what is an aging product? Harsh...
Well we can add calling Decent the Tesla of espresso to the top of my cons list. But this comment has the energy of a classic Tesla driver, belittling the opinions of others as worse because they’re different, which does match up with a lot of the Decent diehards as well, so maybe this is all starting to make sense…
Yep, just press the button on the grouphead and all is done.Table just gives you more options. In fact - you do not even have to touch the tablet at all... Only if you want to change beans/profile, adjust temp etc
I am indifferent. I am not a purist and so therefore the noise and process don’t bother me. I like that it does what it does and I don’t have to think about it. I prep, lock in and push the button and go do other things while the shot is pulled. I agree with you on the tank and grate. The sound can be muffled with the mod, but overall I like the size and ease of use.
Haven;t yet watched but tried a Decent and couldn’t stand the texture of the espresso and milk drinks I had off it. That’s what steered me to my LaMarzocco.
Excellent review! I actually JUST received my DE1 Pro today, so its way too early to really say whether I love it or hate it. That being said, I'm coming from a Rocket Appartamento which I've been using for the last 3-4 years or so, and I'm both impressed and overwhelmed by all of the options and control the Decent gives you. At this time (again I've had it for like 6 hours), the noise doesn't really bother me too much, but that remains to be seen. The drip tray on my Appartamento was actually quite small and the one on the decent is like double the size, but I also haven't used any of the larger home machines like the Linea Mini or GS3 where the drip trays are super big. All i can really say for myself at this point is its definitely super different to use than my Appartamento and will definitely take some getting used to.
The size of the drip tray in DE is not the problem at all, machine does not produce a lot of waste water, so you won't be cleaning it too often. In fact, it is more likely that you would have to clean it just because you would have to refill it more often. And refilling is a bit of PITA. Also, watch out for the sucking tube on the back of the machine. I found after some time that mine accumulated a lot of residual around it, so it has to be cleaned too on the regular basis.
I must be an odd one out, I had no issue the noise it made before I bought one. After having one for years I actually kinda like the noise. Also, at least for the turbo style shots I make with a daily 3x cleaning flush the drip tray is never full before I need to refill the tank so I've never noticed it being small. The annoyances I notice most are how the water tank doesn't slide smoothly so you slosh water almost every time. You can get around that by using some ptfe tape, but a 4k that's a bit silly to have to do, like it not coming with a cover. The water level indicator is also pretty bad but I think a newer version has a better implementation, that or that's something still in the works.
Loving my Decnt had it for about 2 years now, the noise isn't really that bad, the drip tray is fine, the cover should come with it as standard though. It's an exciting machine to use, the range is unparalleled, it's like owning several machines in one. Maybe if I had the luxury of owning many high end machines I'd nitpick at it too. But as one ultimate machine it fits my needs, I don't even participate in the owners forum and I'm still enjoying it.
The decent has been a great addition to my home cafe. The Noise is a non issue imo. Went with it over a Bianca, b/c for the money, you can get almost any shot you want out of it and the heat up time is lightning quick and I knew I wouldn’t be able to profile different pull styles on the Bianca accurately.
That’s exactly why I sold my Bianca and went for the decent. I do miss the thicker body shots, however. Can be overcome somewhat with a puck screen. I’ve had mine for two years and have no intentions of moving on.
@@erikasoldit Sure, my GCP didn't quite sound like that either, because the pump just stayed on during the whole extraction. But vibratory pumps tend to sound similar *while running* in general. The Decent can sound pretty similar to your Breville when using the "forward flush" profile for regular cleaning. But for normal espresso extraction, switching the pumps (there are two) on and off is just part of maintaining specific pressure, flow, and temperatures during extraction. I *suppose* you could get a similar-sounding extraction from a Decent if you make a profile for high pressure and high flow, and maybe grind coarse. Not sure how that would taste though. (And now I'm kinda curious to try it...)
Love the review, nice job. To oversimplify this, I feel like it is the same debate we are having over cars. You either hate the fact that manufacturers are getting rid of physical buttons or you love the minimal high tech look. I always felt like the Decent was a piece of Lab equipment and even the new Bangle isn't going to change that. The overall experience just seams far from the vibe I want when making espresso.
The Decent is the polar opposite of the Olympia Cremina. It's fascinating how humans can engineer incredibly different solutions to the same problem, how to make espresso. Still, I'm on Team Olympia Cremina. I admire much about the Decent, especially the nearly instant heat up time and the ceramic water tray. I'm not a Decent hater by any means. Quite the contrary, I admire the Decent and John Buckman's passion for engineering and design. Unfortunately, there are a few cons that I can't bring myself to accept. I'm thrilled that, at 8:30, you recorded the vibration pump sound of the Decent. I hate this sound. It's very annoying, like scratching on a chalkboard. To be fair, I hate the sound of all vibration pumps. If John would somehow engineer a Decent with a rotary pump, it would be a huge improvement. I also can't stand the dancing arcade lights on the grouphead. These are my two biggest complaints about the Decent but I bet the software would drive me crazy. Obviously, shot quality is paramount too and the Olympia Cremina has the Decent beat on this front. How do you improve a spoon?
If I could add two requests to any further discussion of the Decent, 1) Is it any easier to dial in beans or is it basically same as with an E61 and 2) how much variability can you really achieve with these different profiles? Take for example a pretty standard Chocolaty med/med dark roast, is it going to be night and day or are we just talking subtle changes. Thx!!
A hitech Decent in Marzocco polished chrome casing would sell me. BTW I think that "lack of body" taste problem can be fixed by setting up better profiles since Decent should be able to controll all parameters in brewing time.
Routine comment is spot on. I’ve had the decent around two years at this point and I’ve used the same profile for the last year. The novelty of tinkering with profiles wears off quickly at which point why have all of it in the first place. I’m likely going to be moving to a simpler machine in the future.
I love my lever machine but I don't see it being fit everyone. If I wanted to just push a button to get a shot then I would probably walk around the corner and go get an espresso...I think I enjoy the failures of my lever shots to get to the delicious shots
I’m surprised that the steam is rated so well. I skipped the decent and went for a Linea Mini because I sometimes host big family gatherings and need to do big milk drinks, back to back. The other reason I skipped it was that I don’t enjoy experimenting. I prefer simplicity and repeatability, so I don’t highly value its key features. Those who like experimenting and can afford it should seriously consider it. My preferences don’t need to be your preferences. I could have bought one and found a favorite profile and maybe the steam would be adequate, but the user experience would have been disappointing. I really like my experience with the LMLMini. I would be irritated multiple times per day by that horrible noise. But if I were an experimenter, I’d put up with it.
My guess is that the steam is dry and hot, which is great, but the volume is limited, so you get nice quality but it’s slow. This is fine for solo use, but not good for serving a room full of thirsty visitors. The Mini, on the other hand, is about as quick as I can handle. It was overwhelming for the first couple of weeks!
I’ve never used the Decent, but I’ve seen some videos where steaming was a bit slow. I want to see a steaming race with large pitchers! With my LMLMini, I can easily steam for my flat whites while pulling the shot, and the steam wand always wins easily.
I just timed the LMLMini. 140g of oat milk steamed in 10s while pulling a shot. It would be cool if a Decent owner ran the same test. Can it steam while pulling? That’s no big deal for a person or two, but for over four people, efficiency matters. It’s a bummer to be stuck at the machine while everyone else is in great conversation.
Have the Decent for a year or two now. Love it. The noise is ok by me. It makes good Espresso, small foot print, get ready in a few minutes, make dial-in way easier and faster.
I actually like the noise - I am very into that. I would like to actually try it out to see what it truly offers - and I think that mouthfeel issue was solved in a video by Decent where they showed off their baskets - which the waisted ones might help you in that regard. The only time I experienced a Decent was at Doubleshot’s coffee roasters booth with the Filter 3.0
"Now's the time I retire myself to a solitary life of spring levers".. interesting! I look forward to getting your take on this. It is somewhat ironic that arguably the most popular profile on a tablet-operated, software-controlled, most technologically-sophisticated, machine is.. the Londinium.. a mechanical spring lever. Don't get me wrong: I applaud John Buckman and his team for what they have created, and the Decent has earned its rightful place in the pantheon of notable espresso machine achievements.. but there is nothing quite so satisfying as the zen-like process of pulling a shot (literally) on a silent and mechanically-simple device, and hearing nothing but the gentle drip-drip into the cup of syrupy, full-bodied nectar of the gods.
I haven’t thought about another machine since my micra purchase ~6 months ago. This will stay my perfect machine for the next 30-40 years until I retire and get myself a lever machine. Maybe LM will have a home version of the leva x1 by then haha!
Always wanted to buy a Decent. But at one point I saw the Nurri Leva lever machine and I was sold. Also because people who have both machines said that the Decent can't compete with a Spring Level machine. I have the Nurri for 6 months now and I am sure the Decent can't make the blooming shots I make on the Nurri
The comment about the drip tray is correct. Too small. Some people put a scale underneath but id rather have a larger drip tray. The noise is a non issue. It gives you an idea whats happening during the brew cycle.
I go several days between having to empty the drip tray and even then it's still not full. I wonder why owners are having such wildly different experiences with drip tray filling.
In a world full of technology, I appreciate the act and art of doing something apart from that. I will acknowledge the capability of the machine but like you, it leaves me cold. I think it’s the difference between clinical repeatability and handcrafted artisanship. It won’t be perfect each time following the latter method but I believe there’s a certain satisfaction that comes from the tactile act and being able to say, “I made that."
It's a computer that makes espresso, compared to, say, a San Remo YOU that's an espresso machine that has a computer in it. Those things are often said when talking about the Decent. Myself, the DE1 is my first espresso machine. I literally had never pulled an espresso of any kind with any machine prior to the one I pulled on my first day of Decent ownership. So, I don't have all of this love of the process, tactile feel etc. I'm also a software guy by profession, so I love the notion of programming my shot, hitting run, and seeing the results of the "program". I approach it from a coding standpoint, not a tactile or emotional standpoint. In short, if you're a "lever lover" or someone who enjoys the "right brain" parts of espresso making, the Decent is going to be a shock to the senses. If you're a "left brain" who likes the logic and technical aspects, you'll probably love it.
I think you summed up my hesitance for buying on. I know I’d find 2-3 profiles I like and just use them, not really wanting to use it for experiments of programming. So seems like I’d be paying an awful lot for some really standard features and wasting 75% of what makes having one of these an experience.
A few thoughts. As an enjoyer I've got a few thoughts. 1. Even with the new water diffuser the sworks version just gives better body. Absolutely fair for the default version. I dont really notice a big difference with it compare to normal pump commercial machines (Synesso MVP hydra) 2. GHC full manual is basically non usable, no issue finding it tho. I rare want to do full manual vs just adjust an ongoing shot which is okayish 3. Dont use base camp so meh here. 4. Drip trays -- I plumb always so its a dont care thing. The draining is crappy compared to an MVP hydra or Portofino. Super fragile compared to SS to, i've already broke one drip tray :(. The position of the drain hole (central), is also REALLY crappy for putting a scale underneath like a you would with a NCD stem (plenty of cheap versions on Aliexpress) or Sworks drip dray Overally I'm kinda meh on it. I dont love mine all the time but using some of the alternatives leaves my cold taste wise. I need to try more levers.
My only problem with the Decent is one you picked out quickly, lack of body. While not a problem itself, I'd focus on light roasts to make the most of that, but I also love classic thick, high body espresso, so I would have to run two machines to cover my requirements. Not that I have a problem with that, but someone else in my family certainly would.
I love my Decent and routine together with Lagom P64... over the years I tried many many different machine, but Decent is one I love the most, honestly. I am looking forward to brew my shot every time...and yes the the pump noise I am not biggest fun of but I 've used to now, don't bother me anymore.
More body in the shots is achieved by adding a good puck screen, reducing the space between the coffee and the group. Been doing this for about a year now.
im still on the fence. im planning to buy a 3-5k Espresso machine someday, when i made up my mind which one to get. The Decent is high on the list. (m currently using the oracle touch pro). I dont mind losing the mechanical parts and using a Tablet to use profiles, that imitate other machines. As long as im able to change variables to get a better result. What i dont like is the reliancy on software from a single company. Im not aware of opensource software that can work with the decent. I also dont like the interactions between the community and the owner. Physically i hate the water tank implementation. I dont understand how they could have decided having to remove the drip tray to access your watertank, for such a small and open watertank.... is a good design choice. I have seen the waterpump solution for both fresh and waste water, but thats defintly not worth 400$. This alone is a no go for me. I will wait till they update a new version. or get another machine all together.
Just Get yourself a fully upgraded La Pavoni (not the one sold by the company), you seem like the exact person for that workflow, and would probably be endgame for you.
With sincere respect, body and mouthfeel on the Decent is superb, as good as any of the many levers I've had. You simply need to pay more attention to headspace and puck depth, being the key variables in creating thick body shots.
Coming from a classic E61 dual boiler, I absolutely love my decent de1XXL.
Maybe the first week I missed the pulling of the lever feel and the chrome look. But now every time I start a shot I enjoy watching the what actually happens on the display. The heat up time is absolutely fantastic. No waste of energy. The drip tray and water tank go in the dishwasher. More steam power than my old dual boiler (XXL version), -simply better foam. Combined with the acacia lunar I get every shot how I want it every time (+-0,6g). I used noisekill material to reduce the sound a bit. Now I really enjoy it because you hear the clicking & what’s happening and the silence in between when your shot is blooming. Also regarding mouthfeel I pulled very thic shots by increasing the dose and using a more traditional baskets. Just put in you LM basket and check the headspace. For me with a process engineering background it‘s a great machine. Sure there are things that could be improved and hopefully the industry will. The decent has changed espresso completely and started a change away from wasteful unpractical „we do it like always“ designs in the industry. And that’s great to see 😊
We own 3 de1xxls on our cafe. That decision has paid dividends. The noise is negligible here, since the cafe is more noisy than a home. Nevertheless, people grow to love the noise.
We can make anything any customer wants, specified to any beans we roast and serve. Also, the any new product on the market feels like it can be or is adapted to the decent (unibasket, filter 3. Etc.).
It is interesting that it takes more effort to make a thicker shot due to headspace concerns. But it's easily fixed with spacers or smaller baskets and higher doses.
We plumb in all our machines to avoid drip tray issues
I understand the desire to keep things more manual if that's how you started with espresso, however we get more joy out of changing so many different variables and putting in the work on the front end and then watch our puck prep, roast and machine do the work in real time. Really watch the graphs as the move and see the result in the cup
Started with a La Pavoni for years and recently added a Decent to the collection. I love it. Noise doesn’t register for me, and I really like having the data feedback on the tablet. I don’t miss the La Pavoni, but I feel like I’ll come back to it later, armed and ready to make way better shots.
A machine that gives you total control of every aspect in the cup at every roast level is impressive, computer or not. I've had mine 4 years now with no issues. We all hate the sound of the pump, but it gets the job done.
Still cant make a balance shot..
@@gigi9467What's a balance shot?
@@Mythicregard don’t have that kind of time, man
Glad you gave it a good go. I have had my DE1PRO for a year. For me it has been excellent. It is fast, consistent, almost all my family can use it with minimal instructions. One of best purchases I have made.
I am a petrolhead and can’t switch to electric cars but on a day to day basis when it comes to espresso machines i am far more interested in tinkering with different variables than the feel and sound the machine makes so it works for me.
Also i could not find a traditional machine that beat its heat up time and small footprint without making some compromise.
It’s a very well thought out machine, I don’t think there are many products in the world that have undergone as much thought as John and his team at Decent have put in to this constantly evolving platform.
Perhaps I will add an inexpensive lever machine one day but for now I am wholly satisfied.
The only gripe I have is filling the water tank/ceramic tray is a chore.
I have had my De1 for more than 2 years. Been thru quite a number of machine (some high end ones) i still feel the De1 is one of the best in producing taste shots.
The Bengle coming in 2025 will solve so many of this machines issues. It’s going to be sick!!!
Had mine since February and love it! There definitely needs to be a beginner guide start up guide to start using it. The auto purge, mobility, start up time, presets, and auto clean preset does it for me.
This review has a weirdly snide undertone.
I'm not a Decent owner or anything. This was almost awkward to watch and uncharacteristic.
Yeah seems like sprometheious has something against the owner of decent ... I wonder why?
Y’all out here writing Sprometheus fan fiction.
I've had mine for almost four years. Much of what you say is true and the aesthetics are a drawback. But the upsides are huge including things you didn't mention such as tiny footprint and low weight, ease of maintenance, and incredible support by Decent. I don't experiment with different coffees and profiles, but being able to fine-tune my profile to taste is something that can't be done with most machines- certainly not as easily. Maybe there are failure points in this machine, but mine has been flawless so far... Good discussion!!
I've had a decent for about four years too. I really like it, but not for the reasons that I expected to. Sure, it makes great coffee and milk, it would be insane if a 4k machine didn't, but it's the quality of life stuff that does it for me - small, fast to heat, easy to clean, repeatable. I thought I would be constantly tweaking profiles, but I have ended up with a handful of go-to profiles that I use all the time instead. I'm a techy so I think that's why the computer nature of it doesn't bother me. Don't love the noise but not a deal breaker. Compared to my old e61 it's night and day, I would never go back. I didn't think I'll change to a new machine but maybe at some point I'll add a lever machine as well for those times I crave the physicality that is definitely lacking...
Good review - even, and fair. It's a good machine, but like everything definitely not perfect, and definitely not right for everyone...
The Decent's profile are a little like a car seat. It comes with a wide range of adjustments, not because you are expected to play with it every day, but it's to help you get comfortable
Spot on! After years of eying and never warming up to the Decent, I found that right balance for me in the Sanremo You - strong capabilities, beautiful, fast, quiet, pure joy. I hope SR delivers the flow based profiling on top of the pressure profiling it currently supports. I see some R9 owners share similar sentiment.
and don't forget local support
Best thing with the Decent is you can do just about anything with it.
Over the last year I’ve almost exclusively only made Sprovers and now been diving in with Filter3.
It’s just an incredible tool for exploration and can adapt to your tastes over time.
Thank you so much for this video. This one is especially helpful for me. I have a GS3MP but I also have a 1969 La Pavoni as well. (Lagom 01 with blind 102mm for home and Lagom mini for travel.) Being part of this espresso community, you definitely hear a lot about the Decent. I never really had any fear of missing out but I was very curious as to the user experience. Your review helped a lot in that regard. For me, having the tactile experience is paramount and I share your dislike of the sound the decent makes. It has been a deal breaker for me from the first time I heard it.
What I find so fun is being actively involved in the shot in real time. It is so exciting when things go right. True, it has taken many years to get to where I am more than content with my shots, but I have never gotten discouraged. This is due, in part, because there is so much good content online helping home baristas in this challenging endeavor. Again, thanks for all of the tips and help. It is a pretty rare thing to enjoy espresso this much, but even harder when you are doing it at home and learning as you go.
When I am traveling and using my La Pavoni daily, I have shots of espresso that not only rival my GS3, they sometimes surpass it, which is a little crazy. So it was with a certain joy and excitement that I heard you finish the video with the idea of further exploring the lever machine situation. (I will say that I am not drawn to the newer style of lever machines that seem like they are bordering on being a hybrid of a Decent and a lever.) I do share some of your frustrations with the GS3 but when I have guests over and need to pull a bunch of shots it really shines and is also a lot of fun to use. Doing something like that on the La Pavoni is just not very easy. Excuse the ramble, but no one really gets this stuff except others who have the same affliction/passion. Excited to see what is next for you. Happy Friday...
I have the latest iteration of the DE1 Pro, which addressed the headspace issue to get more mouthfeel. Combined with using puck screen and the very wasted basket I get plenty of body for my milky drinks, which is what I drink 95% of the time. I love the noise as it informs me in a very tactile way what is going on with the flow. Steaming is fantastic. The fast heating time, tablet control I see as big plusses. Spro is right, you either love this thing or can't stand it. Be interesting to see if the upcoming Bengle addresses some of the typical concerns.
I wanted a decent for many years and thought it would be the end all and be all and 10 years later when I finally read and listened to all the reviews, I decided I could not be without mouth feel and texture and decided lever was the better way to go.
The sound was a non starter for me...
All though I like the decent efficiency.
My lever tank runs dry quickly I have to refill at the end of every session and clear the drip tray..
Annoying but not horrible,
I am beyond thrilled and glad Decent exist and will only get better.
What lever did you get??
@@wesleymatthews6356 ACS Vostok
I've had mine for about 6 months as well. Being very technically oriented, the Decent has given me everything I wanted and more. I feel like I've just touched the surface. I've tried multiple profiles and ultimately one does settle on their favorites. But the ability to switch between those favorites with the touch a button is what this machine is about. I suppose for those people that feel a connection to a traditional sounding machine, the Decent's sound may be a detriment. I for one, have become used to that sound and in fact, the sound tells you much of what the machine is doing. As for the espresso produced, it's some of the best I've ever tasted. From teas to Allonges to traditional espresso the ability to tune all the factors that go into making good coffee is par none. This machine may not be for everyone, but for those that appreciate the ability to tinker and experiment it has no equal. I'm waiting for my Bengle.
No mention of the open source idea behind all the software? I created an alternative iOS/Android App for this machine (despresso) - which goes a bit different ways on handling profiles/recipes.
What about the extremely short heating-up time? Very energy efficient compared to the classic boiler based approaches.
Enjoyed your review, two areas of disagreement though: 1. Reliability implied by failure points. Have owned my decent for 5+ years and machine has been incredibly reliable. 2. Calling John thin skinned - I would consider him to be super transparent and in it to improve the future of espresso.
I appreciate your comments on the feeling of machines - and I see a lever in my future, but that would be in addition to the Decent , not replacing it.
Have mine now for two years and I'm quite happy with it. Wouldn't trade it for any other machine. The noise is not something that bothers me
I love my DE1XXL
Decent is fantastic, the temp stability and quality of shots it can produce is great. If you want to keep up on the trends an innovations in espresso brewing it is the best tool out there. Pair it with a level machine like a strietman ct2 and call it day.
I won't go back to a regular boiler machine. Those still need to be descaled, which the Decent doesn't require. I love my DE1Pro, especially for its Turbo shot feature. It's been over three years, and it still works great. Maybe I'll upgrade to the improved Decent model someday, but not to a regular boiler machine. I really like how it performs.
The one thing that hasn’t been mentioned here is the feedback/data that the Decent gives you. The data plotted on the screen for each shot gives you a lot of information for dialing in and puck prep. This data has helped me be very consistent when I want to and is great when I want to experiment. The other feature is the fact that this machine can emulate any type of espresso machine that has been made so it gives you a ton of flexibility.
I think this is the unique point of this machine. You can compare shots you did yourself, share shots, discuss them with other people to find hints to optimize your preparations.
I decided against the decent this year after savning for a couple of years and went with a Spring lever machine. I really wanted the tactile feeling and that low parameter to change type of machine.
I envy the heat-up time but have solved it with programsble sockets.
Great review, touches pro’s and cons, usability and outcome feel. Seems very objective which is nice.
I LOVE the new set! And the way your mic’s off screen now. The video looked really nice man. Good work
Was actually on the fanboy path for a while but then veered off wildly and bought a Linea Micra. So happy i did, its awesome and makes consistently great espresso - assuming the user knows what they are doing.
I recommended the Bianca to a family member based on your review, instead of the decent, because they were apprehensive about the digital brewing process and wanted a more manual experience with the opportunity to still control the brew. They are extremely happy over the last few months since their purchase.
The Lelit Bianca seems to be the consensus gold standard for semi-automatic home espresso machines at this point. Who knows, tomorrow that may change but for now, here's to many great espressos.
Had my Bianca for almost a year now (my first "big" machine) and wouldn't trade it for anything, it's all I wanted and needed in an espresso machine, at a great price.
Bought the Bianca instead of the Decent. No regrets
Bianca is great, but not perfect. I’ve seen multiple trustworthy reviewers say it doesn’t have great shot to shot temperature stability unless you wait a bit between shots for it to get back to equilibrium, and do a flush as well. Also, even though it heats up pretty fast for an E61 style machine, it still takes longer than saturated group or thermoblock / thermocoil machines. Both of these issues are kind of inherent to the E61 design as far as I understand, so shot to shot consistency and heat up time probably can’t be improved much more without going away from E61.
@@GraysonCarr it is a solid machine capable of making world class espresso
Very well said. I also love the espresso mine makes, but don’t always love the machine. But for me what ends up in the cup is more important than the experience of making it.
The appeal of the Decent for me is the crazy amount of flexibility, form factor and water/power efficiencies. I don't know that I could get used to the quirks that come with it, but the main show stopper is the price. I will stick with my Robot and Bellman and continue to enjoy the tactile process with some extra money in the bank.
......Dear Sprometheus,
I just heard your comment about the Decent noise.....
I call it the Decent voice.... after a few months now of happily using my decent
(I already got some of the best espressi of my life),
the continuously changing sound of this voice tells me quite clearly what is happening on the puck.... if You know your chosen profile well, you can hear if the shot is ok or not, just by ear.
You do not have to look at the graphs or the group head..... it is a language that you will be able to understand after a while.....
maybe you do not like a person's voice,
but that doesn't matter so much, if that person is dear to you. Even an unpleasant voice will tell you what is going on in a person, if you are able to hear it.
In this moment, being on a trip for a while, I am already missing my decent`s noise..... All the best from me to You, my friend!
.... how subjective these things are.....
Im one of the middle of the road persons. At home im brewing with my Bezzera Strega and my only complaint is the 20 mins of heating up. But the Decent seems like a very interesting tool to play around with. I like things like its water tank and general design. I do not care about extras or UI because i dont own one. It will definately bring news to espresso brewing and this cant be bad. To you as a yt creator it seems like to be a must have. If there is no clue what to discuss next just go with your finger along that long list of different brews, pick one and make a video of it. Or get yourself a spring lever too and do a video on wich one delivers better.
I'm a Function over Form person who wants delicious coffee. The Decent does that and improved my knowledge of making espresso more in one year than the 13 years I spent with a Quickmill Anita. And, going back to being Function over Form, the talk about pump noise and a shallow drip tray being deal breakers just sounds ridiculous to me. The positives so outweigh little nits as to tip the scale over! And, one of the best things about the Decent wasn't even mentioned which is an integrated scale and the ability to SAW (Stop at Weight) at exactly what you want in the cup. Also, one of the Skins allows me to weigh the milk and adjust the steaming time to exactly what is needed. A 90 second warm-up time. The ability to save every shot ever pulled. I have all my bean and shot data and can get a new bag of beans and in 10 seconds pull up the grind setting I used last time. Some people find the way it looks a deal-breaker. Well, hey - fine! Just stop there and don't make up a bunch of silly justifications that are minutiae compared to the positives. Oh, and my Decent is going on 5 years old and the only thing I have done to it is routine maintenance like changing the gasket. All that said, if someone says that pulling a lever floats their boat then I have no issue with that. In my mind you either own a Decent or a Lever machine or maybe both. :)
Couldn't agree more!
A few thoughts here…
- noise - yeah, it can be distracting, but to me it’s actually a way to perceive what the machine is doing. Each “click” is equivalent to X ml being pushed through the system. I think of it as an auditory feedback equivalent of the tactile feedback you’d get on a lever or paddle machine, especially when you use the pressure/flow manual touch controls. I also want to add that for a pair of vibratory pumps, this is not bad at all. Compared to a cheaper machine like a Gaggia or Breville (even the Oracle), the DE1 appears to be quieter, at least to me. Moreover, some profiles (including the default) are not as jarring as the Londonium (educated guess based on experience) which was used to illustrate the noise in this video.
- longevity/repairability and boiler vs. thermoblock design. I can’t speak to longevity, except for the fact that the warranty is “infinitely” renewable and includes two-way shipping to Hong Kong from anywhere in the world. I can certainly appreciate this machine’s repairability. For the most part it uses “off the shelf” components, and most importantly, is completely repairable, with detailed guides/walkthroughs for DIYers.
- shot body/mouthfeel: I learned that this can be improved with headspace reduction, particularly for darker roasts. Yeah, it’s an added cost that should probably be included as a value-add.
Good Video! One of the best things about this channel is he gives his opinion. Good or bad, that is why his reviews are interesting🎉
The noise and the shallow drip tray kill my soul
The noise seems to be amplified on videos it's not really that bad in real life especially if you're already coming from an vibratory pump machine.
You have to deal with either a perfect temperature control (like is is done with two pumps in the de1) or with an estimated/guessed temperature (most machines measure the temp of the boiler water, not in the portafilter) but one nice and silent rotary pump...
I will go for more control and deal with the noise - which is not really annoying after you heared it a few times.
Full respect to you Spro, you bought the DE with your own money, you gave is a fair crack of the whip and explored it for six months or so wiith what appears to be an open mind. You and I disagree on one thing (body and mouthfeel are top notch on a DE if you get puch depth and head space right) and we value different aspects of a espresso machines, but kudos to you for giving it a go.
>body and mouthfeel are top notch on a DE if you get puch depth and head space right
I had mine with original head space and upgraded one. No perceptible difference, except the drier puck. In fact, I'm sure that in proper blind tests no one would reliable distinguish one vs another. It is all in the mind, not in reality.
In fact, I challenge all coffee snobs here and in HB or any other forum full of self-claimed coffee experts in the world to prove opposite: perform a proper blind test and prove that there is a statistical difference between coffee made by DE with difference head spaces. Heck, people were not able to reliably distinguish difference between two absolutely different grinders (EK47 vs Nich, search for old home barista topic), and one saying that 2 mm of head space on the same machine will make a difference?! Sure.
I don't think most people use the manual flow control feature maybe because they didn't know it has it. I think the general use case is a repeatable profile otherwise its kind of like using an e61 machine with flow control which is not really fun or repeatable.
Interesting review. I prefer something that I control without having to think about a lot of options. You ended with a statement about going back to a spring lever machine. At the age of 77, that is where I am and I am happy. My main issue is choosing the beans that I roast and the success of the roasts to get to great espresso experience. Love your channel.
Yes, as I think I’ve commented before, spring lever is the way to go. Talk about a zen espresso experience 🧘 every damn day brother!
Don't own a Decent, and have no desire to own one, but I respect what it's done for the industry in bringing tech to what was largely an analogue world - kind of like those bands that never made it big, but their influence is obvious on massive bands from the following generation.
Thanks for the honest review. As always much information to think about.
Been using the Decent DE1Pro for 3 years. I would agree "it does everything you want but not the way you like it". And after a few years, you'll generally narrow down to a few profiles that you'll actually use.
But I would like to emphasise that the dynamic profile ability of the Decent is more useful than you'll think. Let's say you're getting a 150g bag of rare expensive coffee. The decent has profiles that can pull a "not bad" shot until you primed your shot. For traditional machines the shot can be undrinkable until you wasted like 4 shots, which by the time you don't have much left... Another key is the fast heat up time of like 3 minutes, if I want my coffee I pull it, no more "start your machine 30 minutes before you pull" annoyance.
For the noise issue it's not affecting me much and I would say if it's like 1 minute of noise, it's not really a problem. For the price of the items like cover etc., John would always say the high price is due to their small batch size which is reasonable but for the consumer point of view it's more like "if you don't want to afford the over price then get an alternative" which is quite true, as the cover and everything Decent offer has easy alternative options in the market.
Great honest review as always. Thanks!
As A DE1XL user, I fully agree with you. That's a great machine with great potential. But the price does not deliver all the things that should be delivered at that price. In my opinion, beside the drip tray cover, they should add to any machine the flow calibration basket, that's a must have accessory.
Another issue is that looking for data and basic knowledge on the machine by reading 100+ comments threads on the Diaspora is a bit of a pain. For example the filter 3.0 there is no correct way to use it, you have to read 750+ comments on the thread to see how people accomplished how to use it.
I love that machine, but I feel bad about the price I paid for it.
@@ShalevAbuhatzeira LOL I had the same experience trying to figure out filter 3.0… someone just make a video that’s easy to understand walking us through it plz
The best way to learn is from mistakes.
If you learn from others' mistakes, you don't have to make them yourself
All in all a very objective review. I’ve had a decent for 2 years and like it. Lever profile and gentle and sweet are my preferred profiles. The ability to easily change temperature and pressure gives the machine the ability to seamlessly change from shot to shot. The graphics interface to me highlights where you can improve your shot. I’ve gotten used to the noise. It’s just different from what you would expect.
The best coffee maker is the Decent machine.
Oh, so it’s a coffee maker…
Thank you for the video. I nearly went down this rabbit hole and then swerved away. I love my espresso from a more traditional 9 bar machine. For those who have a Descent and love it, well done and may it long continue to provide you with the variety and different styles of coffee that you enjoy.
expresso
I desperately wanted a decent. And i wouldn't have minded the sound coming from a silvia.
I stumbled across a steal of a deal on a londinium spring lever, and i am in love with the whole ritual.
Regarding repairibility. All the parts are basicall user servicable besides the electrical parts. Nothing needs to be welded like in any other "traditional steam machine".
Of cause things can break. As far as I followed the support forum - it will be fixed in no time.
Ok, if you see this machine as a life-time supported device - you can buy a 2 year extended guarantee after the first two years (included if I am right), but another years... So it is perpetual as long as the company exists... Which machine is providing this kind of service?
Watching this review feels like listening to a gasoline car enthusiast talk about electric cars, saying, "I like what it does, just not how it does it." You know, like comparing electric to gas. "Oh, I really miss the smell of gasoline. I loved those trips to the gas station. So delightful!" I've had this Decent machine for 4 years now, and let me tell you, it’s the Tesla of coffee.
This is a good comparison. I drive electric but will not go down this route for my coffee.
So the Decent over-promises and under-delivers, is rapidly being overtaken by it's Chinese competitors and is continuing to barely refresh what is an aging product? Harsh...
“the Tesla of coffee”….. oof! That is not the brag you think it is 😂
@@maceheadno it is not!
Well we can add calling Decent the Tesla of espresso to the top of my cons list.
But this comment has the energy of a classic Tesla driver, belittling the opinions of others as worse because they’re different, which does match up with a lot of the Decent diehards as well, so maybe this is all starting to make sense…
bottom line for me is I don't want to have to navigate a UI on a tablet to make my espresso.
Tbf. You can set it up once. Unplug the tablet and never use it again. But then there’s no reason to get the decent so yeah haha.
Yep, just press the button on the grouphead and all is done.Table just gives you more options. In fact - you do not even have to touch the tablet at all... Only if you want to change beans/profile, adjust temp etc
I am indifferent. I am not a purist and so therefore the noise and process don’t bother me. I like that it does what it does and I don’t have to think about it. I prep, lock in and push the button and go do other things while the shot is pulled. I agree with you on the tank and grate. The sound can be muffled with the mod, but overall I like the size and ease of use.
Sounds like an mri
Thanks for the review. I don’t care about the machine either way but I got my popcorn.
I have a gaggiuino, not a decent, but I find myself always wanting to try a lever machine because I want that tactile experience...
Haven;t yet watched but tried a Decent and couldn’t stand the texture of the espresso and milk drinks I had off it. That’s what steered me to my LaMarzocco.
Excellent review!
I actually JUST received my DE1 Pro today, so its way too early to really say whether I love it or hate it. That being said, I'm coming from a Rocket Appartamento which I've been using for the last 3-4 years or so, and I'm both impressed and overwhelmed by all of the options and control the Decent gives you.
At this time (again I've had it for like 6 hours), the noise doesn't really bother me too much, but that remains to be seen. The drip tray on my Appartamento was actually quite small and the one on the decent is like double the size, but I also haven't used any of the larger home machines like the Linea Mini or GS3 where the drip trays are super big.
All i can really say for myself at this point is its definitely super different to use than my Appartamento and will definitely take some getting used to.
The size of the drip tray in DE is not the problem at all, machine does not produce a lot of waste water, so you won't be cleaning it too often. In fact, it is more likely that you would have to clean it just because you would have to refill it more often. And refilling is a bit of PITA. Also, watch out for the sucking tube on the back of the machine. I found after some time that mine accumulated a lot of residual around it, so it has to be cleaned too on the regular basis.
I'd be curious to know what you'd choose to use as the antithesis of this machine. Put another way, which machine provides your favorite experience?
I must be an odd one out, I had no issue the noise it made before I bought one. After having one for years I actually kinda like the noise. Also, at least for the turbo style shots I make with a daily 3x cleaning flush the drip tray is never full before I need to refill the tank so I've never noticed it being small.
The annoyances I notice most are how the water tank doesn't slide smoothly so you slosh water almost every time. You can get around that by using some ptfe tape, but a 4k that's a bit silly to have to do, like it not coming with a cover. The water level indicator is also pretty bad but I think a newer version has a better implementation, that or that's something still in the works.
Loving my Decnt had it for about 2 years now, the noise isn't really that bad, the drip tray is fine, the cover should come with it as standard though. It's an exciting machine to use, the range is unparalleled, it's like owning several machines in one. Maybe if I had the luxury of owning many high end machines I'd nitpick at it too. But as one ultimate machine it fits my needs, I don't even participate in the owners forum and I'm still enjoying it.
What other machines do you recommend? Looking for a machine between 2.4-4.5k range for home use. Potentially with flow control if I want to deep dive.
@@kitwinglam9180 if there’s one machine I think can do it all and gives you a great mix of tech and tradition it’s the Lelit Bianca
The decent has been a great addition to my home cafe. The Noise is a non issue imo. Went with it over a Bianca, b/c for the money, you can get almost any shot you want out of it and the heat up time is lightning quick and I knew I wouldn’t be able to profile different pull styles on the Bianca accurately.
That’s exactly why I sold my Bianca and went for the decent. I do miss the thicker body shots, however. Can be overcome somewhat with a puck screen. I’ve had mine for two years and have no intentions of moving on.
The noise is why I haven’t gotten one and have steered away from it! That would drive me crazy.
Honestly, I don't even notice my DE1Pro's noise anymore. Maybe it's because my previous machine was a Gaggia Classic Pro though (vibratory pump)
@@JoeyTenI have a vibratory pump on my Breville Dual Boiler and it doesn’t make any of the noises like the Decent!
@@erikasoldit Sure, my GCP didn't quite sound like that either, because the pump just stayed on during the whole extraction. But vibratory pumps tend to sound similar *while running* in general.
The Decent can sound pretty similar to your Breville when using the "forward flush" profile for regular cleaning. But for normal espresso extraction, switching the pumps (there are two) on and off is just part of maintaining specific pressure, flow, and temperatures during extraction.
I *suppose* you could get a similar-sounding extraction from a Decent if you make a profile for high pressure and high flow, and maybe grind coarse. Not sure how that would taste though. (And now I'm kinda curious to try it...)
All of your negatives (on top of it being TOO computer-driven) is why I went for the R9 One instead of the Decent. Great insights and video.
Love the review, nice job. To oversimplify this, I feel like it is the same debate we are having over cars. You either hate the fact that manufacturers are getting rid of physical buttons or you love the minimal high tech look. I always felt like the Decent was a piece of Lab equipment and even the new Bangle isn't going to change that. The overall experience just seams far from the vibe I want when making espresso.
The Decent is the polar opposite of the Olympia Cremina. It's fascinating how humans can engineer incredibly different solutions to the same problem, how to make espresso. Still, I'm on Team Olympia Cremina. I admire much about the Decent, especially the nearly instant heat up time and the ceramic water tray. I'm not a Decent hater by any means. Quite the contrary, I admire the Decent and John Buckman's passion for engineering and design. Unfortunately, there are a few cons that I can't bring myself to accept. I'm thrilled that, at 8:30, you recorded the vibration pump sound of the Decent. I hate this sound. It's very annoying, like scratching on a chalkboard. To be fair, I hate the sound of all vibration pumps. If John would somehow engineer a Decent with a rotary pump, it would be a huge improvement. I also can't stand the dancing arcade lights on the grouphead. These are my two biggest complaints about the Decent but I bet the software would drive me crazy. Obviously, shot quality is paramount too and the Olympia Cremina has the Decent beat on this front. How do you improve a spoon?
If I could add two requests to any further discussion of the Decent, 1) Is it any easier to dial in beans or is it basically same as with an E61 and 2) how much variability can you really achieve with these different profiles? Take for example a pretty standard Chocolaty med/med dark roast, is it going to be night and day or are we just talking subtle changes. Thx!!
1) Probably same.
2) No, it not, unless you approach the territory of classic espresso vs blooming which is basically a different brew method.
A hitech Decent in Marzocco polished chrome casing would sell me. BTW I think that "lack of body" taste problem can be fixed by setting up better profiles since Decent should be able to controll all parameters in brewing time.
No, it cannot.
@@cybernessful And your authority is ....?
@@cybernessfulIt definitely can and does when using the right beans, basket, dosing and shot profile.
Routine comment is spot on. I’ve had the decent around two years at this point and I’ve used the same profile for the last year. The novelty of tinkering with profiles wears off quickly at which point why have all of it in the first place. I’m likely going to be moving to a simpler machine in the future.
It's like why there are so many radio stations: it's so you can find one that you like, not because you have to listen to them all
I love my lever machine but I don't see it being fit everyone. If I wanted to just push a button to get a shot then I would probably walk around the corner and go get an espresso...I think I enjoy the failures of my lever shots to get to the delicious shots
On the decent, most problems are fixed by "clearing the cache" and a set of earplugs for the user whilst pulling a file / shot.
I’m surprised that the steam is rated so well. I skipped the decent and went for a Linea Mini because I sometimes host big family gatherings and need to do big milk drinks, back to back. The other reason I skipped it was that I don’t enjoy experimenting. I prefer simplicity and repeatability, so I don’t highly value its key features. Those who like experimenting and can afford it should seriously consider it. My preferences don’t need to be your preferences.
I could have bought one and found a favorite profile and maybe the steam would be adequate, but the user experience would have been disappointing. I really like my experience with the LMLMini. I would be irritated multiple times per day by that horrible noise. But if I were an experimenter, I’d put up with it.
Steam on the mini is 100x better than on Decent. Not sure what he is on about re Decent steam, certainly not one of top features...odd
My guess is that the steam is dry and hot, which is great, but the volume is limited, so you get nice quality but it’s slow. This is fine for solo use, but not good for serving a room full of thirsty visitors.
The Mini, on the other hand, is about as quick as I can handle. It was overwhelming for the first couple of weeks!
@mrgazillions Disagree. Steam is fantastic on the Decent and highly adjustable.
I’ve never used the Decent, but I’ve seen some videos where steaming was a bit slow.
I want to see a steaming race with large pitchers!
With my LMLMini, I can easily steam for my flat whites while pulling the shot, and the steam wand always wins easily.
I just timed the LMLMini. 140g of oat milk steamed in 10s while pulling a shot. It would be cool if a Decent owner ran the same test.
Can it steam while pulling? That’s no big deal for a person or two, but for over four people, efficiency matters. It’s a bummer to be stuck at the machine while everyone else is in great conversation.
Have the Decent for a year or two now. Love it. The noise is ok by me. It makes good Espresso, small foot print, get ready in a few minutes, make dial-in way easier and faster.
I actually like the noise - I am very into that. I would like to actually try it out to see what it truly offers - and I think that mouthfeel issue was solved in a video by Decent where they showed off their baskets - which the waisted ones might help you in that regard. The only time I experienced a Decent was at Doubleshot’s coffee roasters booth with the Filter 3.0
decent needs rotary pump option
"Now's the time I retire myself to a solitary life of spring levers".. interesting! I look forward to getting your take on this. It is somewhat ironic that arguably the most popular profile on a tablet-operated, software-controlled, most technologically-sophisticated, machine is.. the Londinium.. a mechanical spring lever. Don't get me wrong: I applaud John Buckman and his team for what they have created, and the Decent has earned its rightful place in the pantheon of notable espresso machine achievements.. but there is nothing quite so satisfying as the zen-like process of pulling a shot (literally) on a silent and mechanically-simple device, and hearing nothing but the gentle drip-drip into the cup of syrupy, full-bodied nectar of the gods.
Exactly! That Londinium profile shows up in every Decent video I’ve seen. Actually led me to getting a Londinium!!
So well put!
I really considered the decent but went with the LM Micra instead
Yeah.....I think I'll just stick to my Flair58 paired with a smart kettle. Presets never made sense to me anyway.
Will I be able to make good cappuccino and flat whites with it? How does the milk heater feel like?
Yeah the milk steaming, both heat and texture is pretty outstanding. I have no complaints on that front.
I haven’t thought about another machine since my micra purchase ~6 months ago. This will stay my perfect machine for the next 30-40 years until I retire and get myself a lever machine. Maybe LM will have a home version of the leva x1 by then haha!
love the new studio and set up by the way!
Always wanted to buy a Decent. But at one point I saw the Nurri Leva lever machine and I was sold.
Also because people who have both machines said that the Decent can't compete with a Spring Level machine.
I have the Nurri for 6 months now and I am sure the Decent can't make the blooming shots I make on the Nurri
Everybody talks about the decent... but when do we get the indecent espresso machine?
The comment about the drip tray is correct. Too small. Some people put a scale underneath but id rather have a larger drip tray.
The noise is a non issue. It gives you an idea whats happening during the brew cycle.
I go several days between having to empty the drip tray and even then it's still not full. I wonder why owners are having such wildly different experiences with drip tray filling.
@@MythicregardI'm flushing portafilter and showerhead multiple times during session so it fills up quickly.
@@mrgazillions I flush once before and after each shot and usually do two shots a day.
In a world full of technology, I appreciate the act and art of doing something apart from that. I will acknowledge the capability of the machine but like you, it leaves me cold. I think it’s the difference between clinical repeatability and handcrafted artisanship. It won’t be perfect each time following the latter method but I believe there’s a certain satisfaction that comes from the tactile act and being able to say, “I made that."
It's a computer that makes espresso, compared to, say, a San Remo YOU that's an espresso machine that has a computer in it. Those things are often said when talking about the Decent. Myself, the DE1 is my first espresso machine. I literally had never pulled an espresso of any kind with any machine prior to the one I pulled on my first day of Decent ownership. So, I don't have all of this love of the process, tactile feel etc. I'm also a software guy by profession, so I love the notion of programming my shot, hitting run, and seeing the results of the "program". I approach it from a coding standpoint, not a tactile or emotional standpoint. In short, if you're a "lever lover" or someone who enjoys the "right brain" parts of espresso making, the Decent is going to be a shock to the senses. If you're a "left brain" who likes the logic and technical aspects, you'll probably love it.
Im waiting for SPRO and J Hoff's review of the ninja lux
I think you summed up my hesitance for buying on. I know I’d find 2-3 profiles I like and just use them, not really wanting to use it for experiments of programming. So seems like I’d be paying an awful lot for some really standard features and wasting 75% of what makes having one of these an experience.
A few thoughts.
As an enjoyer I've got a few thoughts.
1. Even with the new water diffuser the sworks version just gives better body. Absolutely fair for the default version. I dont really notice a big difference with it compare to normal pump commercial machines (Synesso MVP hydra)
2. GHC full manual is basically non usable, no issue finding it tho. I rare want to do full manual vs just adjust an ongoing shot which is okayish
3. Dont use base camp so meh here.
4. Drip trays -- I plumb always so its a dont care thing. The draining is crappy compared to an MVP hydra or Portofino. Super fragile compared to SS to, i've already broke one drip tray :(. The position of the drain hole (central), is also REALLY crappy for putting a scale underneath like a you would with a NCD stem (plenty of cheap versions on Aliexpress) or Sworks drip dray
Overally I'm kinda meh on it. I dont love mine all the time but using some of the alternatives leaves my cold taste wise. I need to try more levers.
Thank you my friend.
It's no gagguino but it'll get there one day.
Great review,. thank you
My only problem with the Decent is one you picked out quickly, lack of body. While not a problem itself, I'd focus on light roasts to make the most of that, but I also love classic thick, high body espresso, so I would have to run two machines to cover my requirements. Not that I have a problem with that, but someone else in my family certainly would.
I love my Decent and routine together with Lagom P64... over the years I tried many many different machine, but Decent is one I love the most, honestly. I am looking forward to brew my shot every time...and yes the the pump noise I am not biggest fun of but I 've used to now, don't bother me anymore.
More body in the shots is achieved by adding a good puck screen, reducing the space between the coffee and the group. Been doing this for about a year now.
Nope. Almost no difference.
What real difference it makes is getting rid of slurry puck, the puck becomes much drier. But body has no perceptible difference.
@@cybernessful You and I have had very different experiences then
Two years and two thousand espressos later, I agree with your opinion on the Decent.
im still on the fence.
im planning to buy a 3-5k Espresso machine someday, when i made up my mind which one to get.
The Decent is high on the list. (m currently using the oracle touch pro).
I dont mind losing the mechanical parts and using a Tablet to use profiles, that imitate other machines.
As long as im able to change variables to get a better result.
What i dont like is the reliancy on software from a single company. Im not aware of opensource software that can work with the decent.
I also dont like the interactions between the community and the owner.
Physically i hate the water tank implementation.
I dont understand how they could have decided having to remove the drip tray to access your watertank, for such a small and open watertank.... is a good design choice.
I have seen the waterpump solution for both fresh and waste water, but thats defintly not worth 400$. This alone is a no go for me.
I will wait till they update a new version. or get another machine all together.
Are there more 'hi-tech' espresso machines similar to the Decent that you recommend? maybe others without the cons the Decent have?
Just Get yourself a fully upgraded La Pavoni (not the one sold by the company), you seem like the exact person for that workflow, and would probably be endgame for you.
With sincere respect, body and mouthfeel on the Decent is superb, as good as any of the many levers I've had. You simply need to pay more attention to headspace and puck depth, being the key variables in creating thick body shots.