Caller Claims Conspiracy Among Scientists to HIDE Evidence for God | Matt Dillahunty and Jimmy Snow
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- Original Episode here: • Why Do You Believe in ...
Anthony calls into the show to argue that atheism breaks down and that God becomes logically necessary in certain areas. However, he quickly finds himself struggling to make a coherent case as the hosts, Matt Dillahunty and Jimmy Snow, challenge his assertions and point out flaws in his reasoning. The conversation becomes increasingly contentious, with key moments including Anthony's claim that atheism implies everything can be explained without God, his assertion that the universe could be different despite admitting he doesn't know if that's possible, and his rejection of the Big Bang theory. As the call progresses, Anthony suggests that scientists haven't thought through the philosophical implications of their discoveries and even implies a conspiracy to hide evidence for God, further frustrating the hosts. In the end, the hosts invite Anthony to call back and present his arguments to a physicist and evolutionary biologist in a future episode.
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“God needs to exist otherwise I’ve wasted most of my life believing in a lie”
There, summed up his whole argument.
Scary😂
They indeed are wasting all that time and money . Imagine the amount of time a human spends its life praying, hoping and shelling out money in the name of these gods . All those resources , time being the most essential , could be used in much more productive ways ... Simply spending time with your family is much better than spending time praying .
I think most theists are in this camp to some extent.
It's just too difficult for them to come to grips with wasting decades of their life on something like religion.
this!!
death is powerful..makes you believe in silly things
Whenever he pauses, you can almost hear his brain furiously trying to choreograph his mental gymnastics routines.
Yep. Dusting his hands getting ready for the uneven bars; hoping he has a better dismount than his last routine.
A half pike-back Sukahara with a twist and reverse landing for his god arguments
As anyone would who has had held a position most of their life
@@petyrkowalski9887s
I thought it was funny when Jimmy asked him to repeat what he had asked him, and he couldn't. He was just waiting for his turn to talk, wasn't listening.
What he and they fail to realize is, if science actually proved God they would be shouting it from the rooftops. The person who proved God would be the most famous person in the history of the world, and would be very very rich. So the BS about science keeping it a secret is totally insane.
its not just that, this is the mentality which made the spanish inquisition way worse than it would have been if it were just about differing religious viewpoints. Both the catholics and protestants targeted intellectuals of the day, destroying Galileo's life for daring to say that Earth revolved around the sun for fucks sake. This same mentality is what drives creationist ideology, anti-vaccine hysteria, and so much more. Its made all the more worse when we see that the revered Martin Luther pretty much came up witht he whole jewish cabal conspiracy theory which was later revisited by Russian oligarchs when they made up the protocols of the elder of zion, which inevitably was the playbook for which fascists and nazis based their entire worldviews around.
This person would also be a HERO to every religious person on the planet...
Not a chance. If science proved God, they would not shout it from the rooftops. Atheistic scientists might be very excited initially, but then they would think of all the atheist friends they would lose and how they would have to not only change their entire worldview, but also their lifestyle, to be more in accordance with God. And so their initial excitement now turns into a "no thanks."
That is the easy part for them, convincing us that their particular god is worthy of worship, therein lies the impossible part.
@@aaronstypes4083,
If scientists demonstrate that god, doesn't mean anything else needs to happen. What a load of BS.
Can people just simply realise that the statement " I don't know " is a statement of extraordinary wisdom !
Indeed. The path to wisdom begins the moment you utter the phrase “I don’t know.”
The one who does not know does not get to tear down the claims of those who claim to know. The one who does not know....is the one who is always wrong.
Absolutely--every great scientific discovery starts with what you said.
@@Aroniyahu The people who claim to not know have an intellectual duty to question people who claim they do know in order to see if the people who claim to know have any rational reason to think what they know is correct.
So far theists have yet to provide a rational justification for what they claim to know.
@@anthonymitchell9793 All people who know and not know have an intellectual duty to question (curiously....not with doubt as is the way the atheist behaves to the theist) who claim they do know.
So far theists are the only providers of a rational justification for what they claim to know.
And so far, atheists and evolutionists provide the least of all religious peoples.
Christianity: "My god is all powerful. Also, you secular scientists can control my god and have conspired to hid him."
This! LOL. Every Atheist is more powerful than god because he can't make us believe in him.
Exactly…just idiocy on display
Oh a powerful god, isn't it???😆🥁😆
Time to get a new gig mental matt! Dean odle would destroy mental matt in 3 minutes! Hey matt who put the first humans on earth if God didn't, duh duh a stork dropped the first humans on earth! So mental matt who put the storks on earth?? Duh duh duh! Time to wake up atheists and use the brain God gave you!
God cannot be hidden, every day people see His handy work. Some people just fool themselves into thinking Earth wasn't created tho.
Theists: God exists outside of time and space.
Also theists: Science is hiding God!
It’s always nice when theists like your hypothetical admit that God exists nowhere for zero seconds.
@@Leith_Crowther I chuckle every time.
Jee a contradictory statement.. wonder where they got those from. Perhaps the buybull.
It always gets me when someone says God exists outside of time and space, because the idea of outside of time and space makes no sense at all. Even in a multiverse, each universe would encompass time and space. But I guess they have to put god somewhere, since he's nowhere to be found in our actual universe.
As Aron Ra put it; if god exist outside of time and space, then, at no time nor in any space does god exist.
God, right before Anthony was born: “Send in Anthony as thy whistleblower against the wickedness of Science that hath hidden me from revealing myself!”
😅
Hahaha 🤣🤣
and if God existed and did that he failed like he failed with the chariots while he was with Judah in Judges. 🤣🤣
@@kacklerot Isn't that the whole iron chariots passage where iron is god's kryptonite?
@@Kawamura2 On the surface it may seem that way. But it's about Judah doubting God and losing faith in God because of the iron chariots which was new tech in war at the time so the iron chariots were intimidating to Judah and his men. This is according to believers and scholars.
Was it not Thomas Jefferson who said that a god is not very powerful if it needs the government to protect it.
I don’t know, but it sounds like a true statement.
And that is why blasphemy laws protecting some all-knowing, all-powerful god are blasphemous: the laws and lawmakers clearly assume that their all-knowing, all-powerful god could not even defend their own good name if they felt the need?
That could only be if that god was also non-existent.
@@advorak8529or it could be like what the original israelites thought about the other gods. That they were lame.
@@nosuchthing8 “Hey, these foreign gods … they are pretty lame - we must make laws to protect their name, but not for our God who can punish transgressors all by himself!”
- no person ever
Would you like to amend your position?
Thor Vs Hulk debates are never a waste of time!
Jimmy, interrupting caller: "what question did i ask you?"
Caller, who was in the middle of answering: "i... don't remember..."
This is your brain on theism, kids. How can you answer a question if you don't even remember it 5 seconds later?
He wasn't really listening to any questions. He just wanted to assert his beliefs...badly
@@RoddHarding
Well that's the norm.
Don’t be too harsh. My brain works the same way.
@@abcd7613 I was gonna say the same thing. I sometimes forget what I was saying previously during a conversation.
@@abcd7613 haha me too. When he asked the caller the question I was already listening to the answer and forgetting the question.
It always amazes me that people don’t see the arrogance in asserting an answer when they just don’t know. The belief that the universe owes you an answer - what could be more egotistical? And here I thought Christians were supposed to be humble. Huh.
Religious indoctrination kills critical thinking and poisons the brain.
It doesnt owe me an answer. But i sure feel like it does 😉
@@ngcastronerd4791 me feelings feel good sometimes 🙂
It’s also similarly arrogant for people to pray to god and ask for special treatment. If god has a plan and you’re asking to deviate from said plan, that is pretty arrogant.
@@terranhealer good point.
What would circles look like if pi were different?
... that's what fine tuning arguments sound like.
Nice analogy. 💚
Thank you! I’ve been using that example for years.
There’s no reason to think these constants aren’t just necessary results of the way things fit together.
What would it mean for pi to be = 4?
What if e were a different number?
The questions don’t make sense.
1 Kings 7:23 sez it's 3. Why are creationists picketing biology class and giving geometry a pass?
I read a physicist Brian Greene book several years ago (I'm just a pop physicist/quantum etc person 😉) but he said if the physical laws of the universe weren't as they are nothing could develop, ie planets, stars, matter, whatever, it just couldn't happen. Stuff wouldn't work. 😊
@@cambranson Sure, but that doesn't answer if there actually could be other universes with different laws.
If my uncle had tits he would be my aunt. But that doesn't mean there is a parallel universe in which my uncle is my aunt.
The fact that I can conceive of something doesn't make it possible, let alone real.
I'm glad that Anthony has essentially argued for pixies, sprites, imps, gnomes, fairies and similar creatures.
...if we asked people whats the chance of these individual creature existing i would hope and expect only a tiny below 1% would say they existed but i think a god is in the same ballpark as those other mythological creatures...yet amazingly with zero evidence 84% of the worlds population in 2014 believed in a god.....really hope that figure is much lower today
@@Pmrace1960 60% of the American population claim to believe in angels. Never under estimate stupid.
@@Pmrace1960 there aren't any supposed consequences for not believing in those things, whereas gods tend to have some weight to throw around.
@@kellywalker1664 carrots and sticks
"My understanding of cosmology is based on what I remember somone telling me when I was 8."
Cool bro. You do you.
I think I've heard hundreds of these theists, and I've never heard a single one of them who wasn't just repeating exactly the same arguments and assertions made by a handful of popular apologists. NEVER anything original. NEVER anything new. And they always rattle them off, one after another, with no awareness that they are hoary old cliches. They always seem to think that they are going to stun everyone with the blazing originality of their points. And they ALWAYS pretend that they thought them up all by their little ole selves.
I don't expect any theists will reply to this but I'll answer for them. All right here goes... Ahem:
No u
I couldn't come up for anything intelligent either trying to prove an invisible being that made everything and cares if we masturbate.
It's the pattern of behavior for which the description P.r.a.t.t. was coined: Points refuted a thousand (or trillion?) times ;)
Isn't it something like looking for the honest man among the rich or the needle in the haystack are some parable in the Bible because I don't think we're ever going to find one. But I'm going to keep listening in the hopes that I find one of them that finally convinces me that there's a God.😂
@@Mehki227 I've known many people with some kind of religious faith who use it as a framework for living an honourable life. However, such people are not likely to phone up talk shows or attempt to convert you. Sometimes this kind of faith is specifically Christian, or Hindu or Buddhist or whatever, but more often just the idea that there is some vague creator being, or that they will somehow exist after death. Usually nice people hold these beliefs. I understand their motives and their reasoning, but don't share them, having always been thoroughly secular. Others are "cultural" believers who do not invest much in some beliefs they grew up with but see no urgent reason to worry about or to "deconstruct" them. I'm glad that I live in Canada, where these attitudes are by far the most common ones in our culture ---- the kind of loud and aggressive religion you find in the U.S. is quite rare in our country. Bigotry exists in some corners, but gains little social approval. The largest Protestant denomination, historically, is the United Church of Canada, which has been LGBT+ positive since back in the 1970s, and concerns itself largely with social justice, charities, and bake sales. The other Protestant churches are mostly the old "mainstream" ones. Catholicism is technically the largest religion in Canada but has long been overwhelmingly nominal, with few people setting foot in a church except for weddings and Christmas Mass. The "none" category is the same as you would find in Scandinavia. People are much more concerned with Hockey than with religion. Marriage equality was enacted back in 2008 with little opposition. Most Canadians consider the mixing of religion into politics to offend their sensibilities, and religion is never mentioned by politicians. Canadians have always considered religious beliefs to be a matter of private individual conscience, of nobody's concern but their own, and that it is rude to preach to others. In recent years, there has been some growth in the evangelical and fundamentalist churches, but they have never been more than two percent of the population. I find myself fascinated by all this atheist/apologist stuff on RUclips because it seems alien and bizarre to me. The political aspect in the U.S. is just downright terrifying.
I don't know everything and some things seem incredible to me. Doesn't that mean that god exists?
No. No it doesn't.
I'm still fascinated by the "magic" of how phones work.
@@temporarilyimmortal795 they were designed by a DESIGNOR phone god.
Theists jump over "How" and "Why" straight to "Who". Some even take step further and say "My god."
I mean… it’s easier to think that a guy did a magic trick some 6000 years ago than to learn some physics.
@@temporarilyimmortal795ok, but would you argue that phones are magic?
A 2nd grader misunderstanding of physics explains flying reindeer and free toys.
Does the caller believe in Santa?
According to *atheist religion,* _"Atheist are the best of people and great examples for man kind"_ and one example of that is atheist mao zedong who did away with 70 million people in very short time.
And according to *islame:* _"Muslims are the best of people and great example for man kind"_ and one example of that we find when the prophet boned baby aisha when she was nine *sunan abi dawud 2121*
Finally, at minute 18, we hear caller admit that he just can't abide the idea of a point where physics breaks down. Somethin' must'a did it, by gum.
A 2nd grader only believes in flying reindeer and free toys because he was told to believe that...kind of destroys your argument. They don't have any idea of physics lol
@@disturbed157 it wasn't an argument, it was sarcasm. In my experience 2nd grade children have no real concept of physics. Sure there's the rare prodigy but most kids that age can't explain why the apple hit the ground after it separated from the tree. I'm fairly certain that Sir Issac Newton was at least in high school.
Yall convinced me that it is silly to believe in god. Now can you convince me why it is silly for me to not be a serial killer? Any evidence or proof will be helpful
As an atheist, I accept that circumstances are such that life exists. End of story.
Anthony notes these circumstances and sees the vastness of space, considers the unquantifiable number of stars and planets and black holes and concludes that he is the reason for it all.
There's probably a word for that...
Life exists....therefore theism. Just on that alone you shoulda voted theism.
I love reading news articles that say "discovery shocks/surprises scientists" because that usually means we just learned something new about the universe.
Mental matt your foolish leader! Lmao. Time to wake up. Jesus saves sinners! Now use that brain God gave you atheist!
well, rarely actually. Most of the time it's something scientists expected to find, maybe even knew for decades and just got smaller error bars, but the media thinks it's a good headline. The few times it is sometjing really new it's often one study, that hasn't been confirmed yet, and there are plenty of possible explanations that fit in with already known science. It's very rare that media report a breakthrough and they actually got the science right, and it actually was a breakthrough. Really the only thing such titles give you is a heads up to see what scientists are actually saying about the research.
My favourite ones are like "giant astroid traveling near earth could hit us"
And when you read the article "near" is like 5x the distance between the earth and the moon, then there some quote from a scientist who basically like "nah we aren't worried about it hitting us because we have been tracking it's trajectory for ages now"
@@kasocool2812when that's the case, check the margins of error
like 2+2=5?
'If God wanted me to believe in him, he'd exist'
Linda Smith.
.
Good old Linda
Most obtuse caller ever.
Shockingly, it wasn’t.
@@Leith_Crowther- what were his angle measurements? 😂
@@alisonjones8861He certainly wasn’t right.
His credulous ignorance was quite acute.
@@suburban-vampire 🤣🤣🤣anyone else?!?
Haven't seen the entire call yet but I know Anthony is in for a very rude awakening debating Matt AND Jimmy. Not a good day to be a theist calling into the line that's for sure lol.
I swear Anthony has called so many time that it doesn’t even feel like he has a life outside of this. He is an atheist in denial and throwing whatever shit against the wall in order to preserve his fantasy
Remember Andrew Wilson's debate with Matt?? 🤔😉
@@MultiBigAndy No. Never seen it. I know you're trying to be smug but smugness isn't exactly gonna help you in a debate cuz it's pretty obvious you're not actually listening or trying to understand
"The big bang says everything came from nothing--"
"No it doesnt"
Flabberghasted, misinformed, caller spends the next 5 mins trying to cling to arguing against a point that nobody made
I'm almost as flabbergasted that he knew the big bang and evolution aren't the same thing. The number of times reality deniers say evolution claims everything exploded from nothing....
Well, if you are an atheist, you have to believe one of two impossibilities. Either it came from nothing, or its eternal. Neither is viable.
@@Aroniyahu If you're a theist you believe the same thing, just in a dumber more roundabout way. God is either eternal or came from nothing. You're ultimately left with the EXACT same problem, you've just added an extra layer of abstraction that wasn't needed.
“There comes a point where atheists have to assume the universe came from nothing”
This BOILS my blood. NO! I don’t believe that, YOU DO!!
So scientists are more powerful than God.
I kinda agree with that actually lol.
Just not in the way the caller intends. Lol.
God, can do everything man can't do but nothing that man can do.
A guy died in a locked room. Anthony suggests that perhaps Mickey Mouse literally crawled out of the TV in the room, strangled the guy and crawled back in. I state that such a ridiculous magical thing didn’t happen. And then Anthony says that that breaks down, because it’s now my obligation to explain how that guy died if not by the hands of Mickey Mouse.
The caller displays typical symptoms of cognitive bias. He says science only proves god. but when confronted with the information scientists are becoming more and more atheists, he puts a new layer of conspiratorial pseudo-explanation instead of accepting the most logical conclusion.
Scientists are not "vecoming more and more atheist"--as if that were even relevant😅
@@James-ll3jb I didn't make a typo like you suggested. Anyway, what I meant is that a vast majority of scientists in the US are atheists. The exact number varies, depending on the study, but for instance, 93% of members of the National Academy of Sciences are agnostic or atheist. I made the comment in the context of the conversation because it was referred during the call.
Scientists are becoming more and more atheists because theists are being fired. Cause dictates explanation.
Scientists are becoming more and more atheists because theists are being fired.
@@pavel9652 Yea they get fired if they don't follow the crowd for atheism.
I don't understand science therefore I'll call up some non-scientist atheists so we can discuss science and that'll prove gawd.
That's a pretty good summation.
in all of my research in biology, i have not found anything relating to a god
Because "tHeY" keep it secret from you!
(VERY large /s)
98% of the royal academy of scientists are atheist
You're hiding the truth! 🙄 LOL
But you are hiding the truth with your evolutionary theory 😡🤬😠😤😪🙄😐🫤😑😶🫥
You quite obviously are one of "them"!
Matter CAN be destroyed, and CAN be created. It's energy that can't be destroyed or created. When matter is destroyed, it becomes energy.
Matter isn’t destroyed, it’s transformed into energy. Energy can be transformed into matter. Matter is just energy in a different state. Energy is just matter in another state.
@@Johnnye-r6r E = mc^2
He thinks “logic” is when you think real hard.
Yeah because Gods less powerful than Scientist’s apparently 😂
God's (god is) less powerful than scientists (plural).
@@ziploc2000Schooling has failed the children. Children under 13 aren't even allowed on RUclips, actually. This child is breaking ToS.
Are you by any chance a flat earther? Both theories hold about the same amount of water... Show me a single piece of evidence for flat earth and I'll show you a single piece of evidence for God (and his supposed immeasureable power).
It's not a truely fair comparison because we CAN prove flat earth is unequivocally false. No scientist will ever tell you they can prove that God doesn't exist, but they will tell you that there is no evidence that he DOES exist.
@@oliverwilliamboulton What are you talking about? I’m an atheist. I’m saying that it’s ridiculous that a scientist is more powerful apparently than god if this idiot thinks scientists are holding evidence of “god”.
I will keep saying this:
Time does not exist independent of space. Space-time is a single unit.
At all points in time, space and everything in it exists. The concept of "before the universe" is physically meaningless.
It is not the case that the universe didn't exist at one point in time and then did exist at a later point in time.
Whether the set of "points in time" is infinite in duration or not is irrelevant.
I once had somebody try to tell me that an eternal universe isn't possible because on an infinite timescale, the chances of me existing right now are infinitely small.
Of course, he lacked an understanding of basic probability because the chances of me existing right now are actually 100%... seeing as I DO exist right now! On an infinite timescale in the massive universe, my existence in it may be the most fleeting moment for the most infinitesimal speck in a vast ocean, but as the speck experiencing it the relative scale of it is unimportant to the fact of my actual existence.
Not only that, but he also tried to argue that Heaven and Hell were eternal. So I went on to point out that then Heaven and Hell suffer from the same issue he claimed the universe does. By his understanding of why the universe couldn't be eternal, he had effectively proven that Heaven and Hell couldn't even exist, and neither could the very concept of eternal souls. He didn't like that very much...
@@Jedi_Vigilante we are obligated to accept that we, and the reality we inhabit exist. Heaven and Hell are not only logical absurdities, there is not a scintilla if observational evidence supporting the claim that such places are even possible.
These clips on the off days for shows are getting better and better!
"Seems to follow", "makes more sense to me", "I find it more probable".... listen for statements like those because it usual means someone wants to equivocate or hand wave from A to C and treat their intuition as authoritative without support
Literally why do these people never think about the reverse. Who created the gods, where did they come from.
Its just asinine
He asks from atheist to explanation why lightspeed is the way that it, but apparently has he asked god the same?
If it was the only way, what is limiting that god to it.
I imagine a guy marching around the center of a town or city, holding a big sign that says "2 + 2!" when most normal people are like "4".
The titans?
They will just use the special pleading fallacy. Everything needs a cause except my special friend.
We must remember that the people who call-in are a self-selecting group so they likely share similar traits such as:
- They've never had their ideas directly challenged
- They severely misunderstand the opposing position
This leads to a overabundance of confidence in their position to the point that they're willing to challenge people who have been shooting down similar nonsense for decades.
What mechanism would generate a god from nothing? That question can only be solved or answered thru special pleading, bald assertion, or circular reasoning.
I have yet to see any apologists (or theists using apologetics talking points) that haven't strawmanned atheism to a severe degree.
I have yet to see any atheists that disbelieve on the merits of science, rather than on the merits of their emotion and heart's desire for God to not exist.
Yes Aron, because emotions are a very reliable method for knowing truth. I just watched a video of people in more than 10 different religions expressing the convictions of emotions they had that revealed that their religion is true. I’m joining them all now because you just confirmed emotions are reliable! Thanks!
@@jestes7 I literally said the opposite of what you said I confirmed.
@@jestes7 Thank you for being an example of atheistic behavior.
@@jestes7 Well y'all certainly aren't believing on the basis of the evidence, because the evidence points to ID.
Anthony can be summarized thus: "I can't understand so many deep things, so logically, there must be a magic man. But let me just claim a bunch of stuff with no foundation and say it's logical."
I’d change that to “I can’t understand deep things which means nobody else can either. So my guess is as good as theirs”
The atheist can be summarized thus: "I can't understand so many deep things, so logically, there must not be a god. Because I reeeeeally don't want him to exist."
He didn't sound stupid, but he sure did talk stupid.
The Dunning Kruger Effect.
I work in a science field. I had to tell someone who was getting conspiratorial that most of us scientists are just out here trying to do our jobs. We’re not part of some secret group trying to dupe the public.
Sounds like something a part of some secret group trying to dupe the public would say.
Anthony is another perfect embodiment in a long list of other examples that religion loves the misinformed.
I wonder... has anyone here ever encountered a person who accuses entire groups they have never met of conspiracies, but DIDN'T show _themselves_ to be massively dishonest while doing so? Because I sure haven't.
My experience is people who question big bang don't know what the theory says. Usually, I ask them to describe what big bang is, as they understand it, and almost never get an answer. It seems they think it says that "something came out of nothing", but in reality it is about the expansion and has been proven beyond doubt.
Yes, that is generally what Christians believe. That is what I believed, too, when I was a Christian. And it is because that is what they tell you in the Christian community, and they vilified it to the point that even bringing it up in conversation is ridiculous.
A guy said to me that the Big Bang was the « random collision of rocks » 😂.
And I would had that they do the same thing with evolution and abiogenesis. They always mix these theories when they are not mutually exclusive !
@@aymerick_ If someone criticises a scientific theory, especially in ignorant way, ask them to describe or explain it to you as they understand it. Then you can correct the mistakes. Such question, however, tends to shut down conversations. They won't respond or get offended, their ego gets bruised and exposes even to themselves they don't know what they are talking about, etc. The conversation gets quickly super dumb, but it can be rewarding in a peculiar way. You can practice sharp responses as well ;)
They get their definition of the Big Bang Theory and the Theory of Evolution from their preachers and don't have a clue what they really are.
If there’s a god please make him call tomorrow 😂
He tried but the phone screener was more powerful and hung up on him.
Fascinating call.
Frank started as a mildly-confused but pleasant christian and ended up as a rabid conspirationist.
What is that last word?
And who’s Frank? 🤪
@@cindyc8335
Nobody worth paying attention to.
@@powbobs I'm glad I was able to introduce you to the concept of language plasticity. You are welcome.
Ever notice that many people who overuse the word 'logic' don't actually seem to know what that word means?
“Correct me if I’m wrong.” Clearly. Absolutely. Demonstrably. You are wrong
The way he didn't even listen to the question is a clear indication how religious people live their whole life.
Anthony doesn't have even the slightest clue how much he misunderstands or just doesn't know about these science topics. And clearly he doesn't actually care. He's a motivated reasoner at best.
The fine tuning argument is the equivilent of saying that if PI was not 3.14 then circles could not exist, therefore there must be a god that set PI to 3.14. PI does not allow circles to exist it DESCRIBES them. In terms of the constants this guy is talking about, they don't even describe the universe, they describe our current best model of the universe, so if they were different, the universe would not be different, our model of the universe would be different (and wrong).
Matter physics is descriptive not precriptive was greatly set out Matt. Excellent
Any words that follow "It seems to me that" are probably gonna be dumb.
If I can't explain something it obviously was the result of a leprechauns burp. They are so cute!!! Tiny little burps. Later we will learn the gaps in our knowledge are the result of hiccups, not burps. Then comes the 17 year hicc-burp war.
Arguing about Thor and Hulk would have been a *great* use of time actually. My opinion? Thor wins a friendly match, but hulk wins in a genuine death match.
Hulk wins because Hulk gets stronger when he is losing. Thor never gets stronger. Also, there aren't any friendly matches with Hulk as he is always angry. Thor can only beat Hulk if he attacks Bruce Banner and kills him before BB knows he is dead.
Thor could obviously not kill Hulk. At best he could neutralize him. Only one way comes to mind. Thor could carry him to somewhere in deep space and just leave him there. Hulk has no means of propulsion so he remains there forever. Thor has his little hammer to get where he needs to go. Sorry nerds.
@@Jo-JoandTaffy Thor does not fly. Superman can do that, but superman is DC. Thor can't do to the Hulk what the Hulk did to Loki. Certainly, Thor can't hold Hulk in one hand and twirl his hammer in the other. Ironman has a better chance of doing what you propose than Thor.
Hulk can smash but does Hulk ever really win? Hulk seems sad and smashes bad but Hulk not better for it.
@@hayuseen6683 All villians are of 'equal' caliber when facing Hulk or it wouldn't be fun to read. No villain can be totally defeated or they couldn't come back in a subsequent episode. The fact is Hulk is stronger than Thor and can withstand the force of Thor's hammer. Thus, Hulk would win.
Captain America can hold out against Hulk's fury with his shield, but can't hurt Hulk or make him stop.
If Hulk ever got a hold of Ironman, he would literally rip him apart.
What if pi was different? Totally ridiculous.
Then is wasn't a circle to begin with.
Don't go messing with pi - I've already memorized the first 9 digits!
Anthony from Virginia, are you on this thread? I would love to talk to you about some of the philosophical underpinnings of the scientific constants you wanted to discuss.
The caller sounded like he had some honest (if wrong) arguments for god, then it comes out that he was a total conspiracy theorist !
He shoulda said that at the start.
"Are you a -cop- flerfer? If you are, you have to tell me."
Why did Anthony’s god not explain to him (via his prayers to his god) how the universe came into existence. Anthony says he believes in a god, which god?
I think these folk get hung up on the word "law," just like they get hung up on "theory." A scientific law is not a mandate by a being, it's the observed way it is.
Yes. I think the children's toy, the box with different shaped holes. The round block goes into the round hole, and the square block goes into the square hole. But Who Created That Rule??? No one. It just is like it is. No rule creators needed. That is how I think of the laws of physics. The things just are like they are. No rule creators needed.
Hypothesis = idea of how something works
Theory - the explanation for the Hypothesis with supporting evidence
Law - a Theory that has not been disproven
Most theists don't understand that a theory isn't just an idea, it is backed by evidence, it is peer reviewed and if disproven is thrown out and a new theory takes it's place. One of the biggest accomplishments for scientists is to disprove a theory so there is huge incentive to do so. The fact that the Theory of Evolution has held up for so long despite it being close to the biggest theory we have (if not#1) means a better idea has not been discovered yet.
@@atalantamountain But... the shapes of the blocks match the shapes of the holes because that's how the toy was _designed._
@@rclrd1 Are you joking? Of course the toy is created, it was just an example. I tried to make it simple
Let's try a new one: if there is a round hole in a mountain side, and there is a rock slide, it is more likely that a round shaped rock of all the rocks that fall stucks in that hole than a square or triangular one. But I know this does not help if you think the mountain and all the rocks - like all the diseases and viruses and catastrophes - are created too.
@@rclrd1 I try again, now I have more time.
Of course the toy is designed by somebody. But the fact that square blocks go into square holes is not designed. It is just the way it is. It is a "law". Nobody designed it. It is how things are. Then people who discovered (of course this is simplified) this law built a toy with different shaped holes and blocks. And then the child discovers the "law" how different shaped blocks go into different holes.
This exactly same things happens when scientist and engineers build and send space ships and satellites - only in much more complicated way of course. They have discovered more laws of physics and then they can utilize them, and send satellites to discover even more.
On Earth, if you drop something, it falls down in a certain way. It is a "law". It must do it that way. If it is dropped in the moon, it will drop differently. This law can be calculated and it is used when building aeroplanes, helicopters and space ships - and when the distant routes of space ships are calculated. The laws are what they are, but in this very complex and developing world these laws can be used to achieve extraordinary results, in good and unfortunately also in bad. That is done by scientists who learn and study those laws (and people who hire them), not by people praying any gods.
These laws are not written laws, they are just the way things are. They are just called laws. They could be called facts.
Bibles and churches, that's what Gwad is responsible for, stuff that people did. Oh, and wars and the Spanish inquisition. Bet you didn't expect that.🤭
Nobody expects the Spanish inquisition.... 😂
Clearly Thor can beat up the Hulk...
He could absolutely not. You’ve just made an enemy, sir.
@@maxburpee ...you are wrong on both counts 😝
First, I am not a sir, second, Thor absolutely could beat up the Hulk
It seems like Thor has electric powers. I feel strongly that commonsense shows Thor's electric powers would give him the edge in battle. Clearly Marvel writers are trying to hide this knowledge.
we can kindof hypothetically speculate about
I will never understand how theists deny something coming from nothing while at the same time insisting the “god” has existed forever! How does god come from nothing?
Because the bible says, "GOD IS THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA. THE BEGINNING AND THE END." LMFAO 😂 That's how deeply embedded this stuff gets into people's minds. Since this collectively agreed upon holy book is declared the authoritative sponsor of said position these folks trust it and won't question this claim beyond what the bible says because so many people believe it and worship it and therefore it has created this illusion, or should I say delusion, that it's actually true and doesn't deserve the critical scrutiny that athiests put forward. It's a self reinforcing conspiracy theory essentially. Circular logic at its finest.
Not just did God come from nothing, he also made everything that exist from nothing by speaking it into existence.
@@pinky9440Aaaaaaand abracadabra let there be light !!!!!!
@aymerick_ Yes exactly. So they say we believe everything comes from nothing, yet the Christians believe exactly that!
Their argument is God is eternal, he always was and always is. He didn’t come from nothing if he’s always existed. Just some mental gymnastics to fit their agenda. If God is eternal then so can the universe be, thus not needing a God to be the creator.
I have a PhD in elementary particle physics, so I must be in on the conspiracy. Where are my ShillBux?
This caller is a clown. I don't even take him seriously enough to respond to. You gotta love the people who think they are smarter and more honest than all the world's scholars. They never, ever are. Not either.
It seems that people who have never earned an advanced degree have no idea what a hard slog that is, and how it changes your understanding of your area of study. They have a superficial understanding (at best) of a subject and they have no idea how much deeper it goes. I wonder if they think scholars just make sh*t up. This caller seems to fit this description. Beyond frustrating.
Yup! This!
Seems to me that people who have not studied at the university level think that we spend all our time memorizing shit from books the way we all did in elementary school. Actually, we spend most of our time learning how to find stuff out for ourselves.
How was the eyes wide shut party? It sounds great.
soros should be sending you that check soon. or disney or whoever “they” are
@@RafaelGarcia-jb3me - If you're talking to me, do you think I care? Philosophy is words. Physics has evidence. Words by themselves mean nothing without tangible reproducible evidence.
It never ceases to amaze me how callers, who appear to have some intelligence, can’t understand when each of their points is refuted by logic, and The caller is unable to grasp that fact and admit that they are wrong.
"I don't understand it, therefore it's impossible."
This is the problem with theists - fear mixed with arrogance. They can't bear to not know, to admit they don't know... so they just shut down. It's pathetic.
Big wizard in sky is always best explanation.
😂😂👏
He moved.
He's Way Past the sky now. Either outside Time & Space...
Or a farm upstate.
Great call. I hope anthony changes hispoint if view. His old ideas got flushed down the toilet.
Weaponised stupidity
It comes down to this. Of all the Gods invented by humans, not one has ever been proven to exist. However science has given tons of evidence how things came into existence and given us so much modern technology etc.
why can't people just accept " we don't know".
if they want to discover it they can go do the math, make a hypothesis, test it, peer review ... all the things...
they instead.... make an assertion they disguise as a hypothesis and then think their way into an "answer" that fits there assertion .
Did Anthony actually follow up and give a call?
Of course not.
@@powbobshe does
@@sh4577
Link?
This is a perfect example of a theist who not only doesn’t understand what atheism is but one who seems to be unfamiliar with the phrase, “I [or we] don’t know.”
Does that mean that scientists are stronger than god? If they are so successful at hiding the evidence, that must be the case.
Please please please! Stop using terms such as, "Looks like," "seems like," "appears to be," and "feels right" while claiming a truth! Especially something that can be measured in ANY way.
Scientific methodology is reliable, consistent, and found to be the single best method to find truth SO FAR.
In order to test a new, non-science based method, it would require the Scientific method to verify it.
There's evidence, and there are claims. A claim is never evidence. Period.
This is simple stuff.
Science doesn't claim to be able to produce truth, and the methodology isn't perfect. There are what appear to be hard limits to the universe that impede our ability to fully investigate anything. The only statements we can make are ones of confidence, not absolute certainly
The scientific method also requires falsifiability. Which means it doesn't deal in absolutes like truth.
the caller is essentially arguing for a more convoluted “god of the gaps”.
…and is obviously uncomfortable with “i don’t know” as a placeholder.
At least the caller can actually listen and be honest when his argument falls apart, he doesn't resist with bs.
So beyond bored of armchair scientists who acknowledge their understanding of science is equal to that of a brick, then spend an hour arguing against firm scientific theories because of their idiotic understanding.
Jimmy, we’ve noticed that the caller’s volume has been too high recently, resulting in input clipping. This causes crackling sounds when the caller is speaking. Can we look into adjusting the volume settings to resolve this issue?
Someone accidentally spills a bag of bird seed on an old parking lot. Most of the seeds are eventually eaten by wild birds or blown away by the wind. However, a few seeds slip through some cracks in the pavement and begin to sprout. Must be all part of God's perfect plan.
Thor could not beat up Hulk.
The position of strong atheists that gods don't exist, can be philosophically challenged by the fact that God can't be ruled out as a possibility on the same level as people who say fairies and elves don't exist can be philosophically challenged by the fact that it can't be ruled out as a possibility that fairies and elves do exist.
Just to put things into perspective
Anthony is the embodiment of the old saying: « its easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled ».
👍
This caller is proof that no god or gods exist.
It certainly is better evidence than any theists has ever provided for god's existence.
Official request to have Matt wear a Santa Claus costume for all December shows
To be fair, if Jimmy or anyone else asks me if I believe in evolution [biological, presumably] I would say a resounding NO! And yet I have defended the FACT of evolution and evolutionary theory my entire life. The theory is a work in progress, but pretty damn good so far.
Good science is not something you believe in, it is something you accept.
Ironically, the fine-tuning concept can be used just as easily for a natural universe than a designed one. And Darwin and Wallace gave us the key to understanding this train of thought. Something can LOOK designed and yet not be. They applied it to biology [evolution], but the principle still holds. The fact that a universe might appear to be fine-tuned or designed does not imply that it WAS fine tuned or designed.
The demand for physics is the same for biology. If you assert that the universe is designed, then point to the designer. If you can't demonstrate the 'designer" [a creator god] FIRST, then your argument falls flat. because even if you can point to a designer god, you still have not nailed down the fact that it designed THIS universe, or any universe. You just have a creator-god which is a candidate explanation. So the "trees, ergo god" argument fails on multiple levels.
Sometimes I like to toy with someone who just says that evolution or science is a 'fairy-tale". So what? That changes nothing. First, no reputable scientist will say that the findings of science are absolute claims to truth, because science, by it's very nature, changes with the evidence it accumulates.
What this 'fairy-tale" called science does provide is 'working knowledge". Good descriptive, predictive and explanatory [mechanisms] of how nature appears to work.
And no religion, no theology has ever come even close, to what science can achieve. So if science is a fairy-tale it is the most unique, efficacious and powerful fairy tale ever in entire human history.
Darwin and Wallace showed us something else. "Bottom-up" investigations often yield very important results. Theology is basically "top-down" [eg god ergo trees].
Very well elucidated sir.
@@thedarknessthatcomesbefore4279 Thanks, but I have had a lot of practice! :-)
An easy rule of thumb for design and something not designed. Intentional design rests on 3 legs: form, function and purpose. D & W showed that form and function alone, and natural variations, interacting with environment, and over generations, gives the "Designoid" appearance of life [thanks Rich Dawkins]. Natural selection, [and some other bits] is the "'designing" "agency'.
@@roberthunter6927 I love how Douglass Adams put it: "“If you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in - an interesting hole I find myself in - fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!"
The definition of “if I had wheels I’d be a wagon”
Appeals to a creator God, are appeals to a bigger mystery.
A mystery, that has zero explanatory power.
If Theists' best 'go to' argument is "how can something come from nothing?" How do they think their sky fairy managed to do exactly that .. which seems fine to them?
“How can I make this into “something from nothing” no matter what”
Gods are born from the inability of people to say “I don’t know.”
Also, matter can be created and destroyed. It’s the energy that makes up the matter, which can change form, that can’t be created or destroyed… in the current form of the universe.
As for the car analogy: show me the universe’s VIN.
The ENTIRE argument for God amounts to... there are things we don't yet understand, therefore it MUST HAVE BEEN MAGIC! At ANY POINT in our journey of learning, one can make that argument, and they will have ALWAYS been wrong!
There's no way Thor can beat up Hulk! 😅
There was a suggestion made by physicists, years ago, that if you could adjust the universal constants a bit, everything in reality would be radically different. Theists now have this belief there are big magic dials somewhere that a god can fiddle with to "fine tune" everything.
If I had just asked that girl out I might be happily married with 2 kids now.
Crazy considering the fact he is supposed to be all powerful and all knowing so wouldn’t need to fine tune anything and he could snap the whole universe into existence exactly how he wanted in less time than it takes light to travel 1mm.
I wasn't aware that we weren't allowed to ask what might llimit the speed of light in a vacuum.
Caller has never heard (or thought about) any of this.
14:23 "We could spend the rest of the show arguing if Thor could beat up The Hulk, but that would be a waste of time" - Hmmmmm
What I'm hearing is the MCU is not a true story. I take that personally because Deadpool and Wolverine was an extremely awesome movie. Multiverse FTW!
Neil Tyson may know more about physics than a 2nd grader but biology, 2nd graders got him beat.