It's something very clever what they did on season 1. They set up a very "down to earth" universe, with well known physics that are just a tiny more advanced than ours, and then when they were going to hit Eros to the sun you are basically thinking "that's it, its unavoidable, Eros is going to be destroyed, Miller is going to die" because you can't find another option within the rules that were established so far. And then they change the rules, that's a deus ex machina, which would be infuriating, but after the first shock the deus ex machina becomes a major plot direction and a lot of information. So, the Deus ex Machina becomes, in hindsight, just a reveal about the protomolecule's capability and a hint to the size of the unknown universe and the amount of things humans don't know.
It took me out of the show almost entirely. What took me out completely was that they showed repeatedly that fire destroyed the molecule... yet it survived a meteor impact. Then they fell back on the old trope, "physics we just don't understand", which is just a way to excuse magic. My wife and I were taking bets on whether it was going to be revealed to be God... that's how far afield it went.
@@johnterpack3940The characters in the story already knew that if Eros hit Earth, or if they nuked it, some protomolecule might survive. That's why they were going to hit it with the Nauvoo and send it into the sun. So that it would completely burn away. The protomolecule was planning to go to Earth in order to use the biomass on the planet. When Miller convinces Julie to influence the protomolecule's "work" she's able to move it to Venus. We heard it from her mouth "You can't stop the work." The protomolecule was planning to continue its work after impacting Earth.
@@tinamoul they also showed them burning it off the hull with torches. Still, the drive plume would be nothing compared to the heat of a meteor strike.
Nice clip sir, Here is #MyTheory on this: Going with the info provided in the books, the protomolecule (from now on PM) was sent at Earth to use microbacterial life to make a stargate, which would connect to the precursor system. It seems to me, simply due to the number of gates, that this was a fairly routine process. To make the gate, the PM probably got a set of instructions to work with the bacteria which were common on target planets, and an AI system with learning capabilities to salvage the mission if something goes different. I expect PM would spread like a virus among bacteria, but instead of working the bacteria to death it would work them normally but PM would prevent predation and all surplus due to not needing to avoid predators goes into PM replication. If there is enough PM, it goes into a building mode where it cares less about lifeforms and just starts working the rock on which it landed into the stargate. This means it will need life to start a strong replication process, but after a while it can ignore life. When PM found itself in multicellar organisms, it used the bacteria control systems at first to try and make sense of the large creatures, but this leads to cancerous growths and weird appendages(the Julie in the bath stage). In the meantime, the AI system started learning about the inner workings of humans, eventually learning how to move and acces memories(finale book 1, somewhere in season 2). During this time, the PM tries to actively invade biological life for its own replication. The replication would cover all of Eros, and out of the humans' memories it finds both existential threats(to be avoided) and a place with a ton of life and minerals(to be infected). So then when large enough to begin largescale physics breaking operations, it moves to dodge attacks and flies at Earth. By now PM is quite massive, and eventually the PM goes into 'ignore life mode', and then reads new input from the minds of the humans(helped by Miller): 'destroying Earth is bad'. As it doesn't need life anymore, just minerals, it can then be convinced to go to Venus, which also statifies it's goals.
Interesting, but might want to slap a big ol' spoiler warning at the start, luckily i've read the books but I'd probably have been pissed at the mention of the ring gates and precursor civ if I hadn't! =)
The spread of the PM in Eros, was engineered by humans. We can't know what it might've done without intervention. Later when it spreads in ships during the space battle, it already has ample experience with humans, and it's behavior would be informed.
The moment he meets her on Eros station is sublimely beautiful and I forgot my senses. This show has the science to suck you in but floats into the magic of the possible science, step by step. You set the show in the realm of the possible then expand, let's see if the believe-ability sustains itself. This whole thing could get very floaty. I only hope and prey the writers, directors actors and producers are up to the challenge in future seasons.
Spoilers ahead: I think that it moved Eros using an alcubierre drive. We do know that the protomolecule is able to create Einstein-Rosen bridges like the Ring, which require exotic matter, and so does the alcubierre drive. It fits the bill perfectly, as there was no acceleration for people on it, but it was accelerating at over 20g.
The tricky bit is that now way is the structure of Eros going to hold together in once piece if you apply 20 G of acceleration to it from some sort of "drive". As was mentioned in the video.. was the increase in temperature of Eros somehow a consequence of the hand-wavy magical unknown physics that allows inertia or mass to be manipulated?
@@lmamakos Isn't that the beauty of the Alcubierre drive? It doesn't move an object so much as it folds space time and move the universe around that fold which could feasibly bypass the speed of light. Although, Eros seemed like it was traveling at sub-lightspeed initially and then accelerating without limit or change in acceleration due to gravity within the planetoid/asteroid.
@@exmachin3926 i think it still needs energy thus limiting acceleration by that but none the less it is able to accelerate extremely quickly without inertia
#MyTheory The PM Warrior used the ladder because the child it assimilated was familiar with them. Had the host known how to access a Reactor by opening doors and reading signs I feel that it would not have wasted time trying to rip the floor open to get to it.
That's awesome!! Thanks for linking that. I know of some radio-isotopic reducing microorganisms but haven't read any that actually use it for metabolism.
DNA is actually a very simple coding sequence. Yet it contains all the information needed to build and operate the incredibly complex human body. Now imagine what could be done with an engineered coding sequence orders of magnitude more complex. A human is essentially a heuristic machine. It learns, although it has limits as to the depth of its learning. Vastly expand those limits and imagine the levels of understanding that could be obtained. "Godlike" is nearly apt.
I like these videos. You should make them as long as they need to be. I find it annoying when I hear RUclips creators apologizing for the length of their videos. You shouldn't pander to the perpetually dwindling human attention span.
Molecule's mission is actually simple, its some type of agent have solely one mission only, to build ring gates, its makers deployed it in space so when its reach in specific type of system that can be mineral rich, or habitable world it start to collect necessary materials to build gate, while on this if it encounters any resistance it creates its own soldiers to finish it, but it also memorize the materials or organic beings absorbed by for information or infiltration, so what is protomolecule? simple its extremely hightech nanite colony that given a purpose
My thoughts on the Protomolicule super soldier is that it's what you get when the Protomolicule is artificially manipulated, this form only exists because humans made it that way. It's natural state is what it becomes when it merged or absorbed Julie into itself. I may be wrong, I haven't read the novels but from watching the show that's the impression I got.
I kind of figured it's some sort of nanoscale constructor that just has the ability to self-optimize and massively network. It's like an intelligent version of the grey goo catastrophe.
Fav show on Amazon Prime/Netflix right now. BTFO Star Wars/Star Trek STD/etc Good writing coupled with realism/politics cannot be beat in cinema. For all genres including yes... Sci Fi.
My theory is the proto-molecule is a force-carrier boson, somewhat akin to strange matter -- it converts all matter that it contacts into the same type of matter. The force the carrier carries is itself a prerequisite for emergent consciousness.
#mytheory **Note: I haven't read the books, this is just my opinion based on the series The Protomolecule is, in my opinion, the next evolution in nanotechnology. nanotech uses tiny robots to re-order and construct material according to it's program. The Proto-molecule takes the robot part out, and makes a molecule that can be programmed at a quantum level to replicate and build according to said program. This, of course gives it the benefits that nanotech may not have in that Nanotech may be broken or corrupted due to EMP or other plagues of technology in space, it simply sits inert till it reaches a position where enough radiation energy is available for it to start it's program (AKA, when the probe crashes on a planet that gets enough solar radiation to charge up the molecule and get it working). The reason it assimilates and takes over living beings is simple. Energy efficiency. The molecule itself could expend energy to convert say water, carbon, silicon etc into more of itself or more complex structures needed for it's programming, but organic life has between 15 and 70 Trillion little factories in it designed for the purpose of creating complex molecules (Cells). it therefore is more energy efficient to take over even just a portion of those and set them to replicating more of the protomolecule and other compounds needed than it is for it to make the conversion on it's own. (This may also be why Earth was the target during a period with simple cellular organisms, where it could use those in it's conversion without any thought given to those creatures evolving at all, like building a foundation with no thought given to the anthills or worms in the soil for the building.) Naturally in order to carry out it's programmed instructions it has to have some kind of adaptability to it's programming, Especially given the time frame required. If you launch it at a planet you eventually want to live on and decide to send a terraforming nanotech molecule to convert it to your specifications, it has to be adaptable to handle all manner of possibilities that may arise. Just because target Planet X is most likely to have conditions A, B and C, doesn't mean a stellar collision, solar flare, or other dramatic change may have occurred in the thousands of years or more between launching of the probe and it's arrival. So by it's very nature it has to be if not a Complete AI, at least a Adaptable Simulated intelligence with abilities to adapt it's programming as needed. This level of quantum Adaptable AI may also be it's weakness, in that the protomolecule may never have been intended to come into contact with intelligent life. This is what leads to the whole being Corrupted by Julie while it was corrupting her. Similar to the Quantum state where until observed a particle is in a state of Flux or probability. (See Observer Effect, with particles behaving like waves unless observed and thus forced to perform as particles by the act of being observed.) Effectively the act of it using her as it's incubation factory caused it's program (At least that sample used on Eros/Venus) to become merged with her at a quantum level as the mere act of using intelligent cellular life to replicate caused a carry over of aspects from that intelligence into the program. (One could get into things like Cellular memory and so on but that's still quite a bit out there theoretical.) The "Recovery mode" As mentioned in the Video may be part of the reason for this also. And just to finish up with a fun little quote from a Sci-Fi Game I was involved in: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." ~Arthur C. Clarke "Would it make your monkey-brain any more at ease if I yelled: 'Abracadabra' after each shot?" ~Un-named Secter Ranger regarding his plasma rifle.
It's difficult to examine the science behind the proto-molecule - though I respect your efforts - given that it is by definition the creation of advanced aliens who are truly beyond our level of comprehension; it is explicitly capable of violating all known laws of physics. I mean, it's like trying to analyze the science behind the Monoliths in 2001: A Space Odyssey. Clarke's Third Law: technology so advanced and beyond us that it might as well be magic.
The Dragon Demands I would agree that discussing the technical specifics of the protomolecule are unproductive. We just don't know. But there must be a level we can begin discussions on... psychology, motivation. What could the motivation of the originators of the protomolecule have been? Can we agree that the originators probably have self-preservation in common with us? So the story goes that the protomolecule arrived in our solar system roughly 2 billion years ago. I just can't see aliens with access to protomolecule technology feeling threatened by Earth-bound pond scum so I could reasonably deduce that the protomolecule's mission was not extermination. This may go some way to explaining why Miller could convince Julia/protomolecule so easily to opt for Venus over Earth. Had the mission been extermination Julia/protomolecule's reaction would probably have been "thanks for locating the vermin for me". Could the originators have been motivated by curiosity? Learn everything about the star system and its inhabitants. The most expediant way to have done that would have been dismantling and examining everything and then send the findings home. The taste of human knowledge of 100,000+ human inhabitants on Eros would have whet PM's appetite to be followed up by absorbing Earthlings. So no, unless PM had subtle programming "find out about as much as possible but keep the killing to a minimum". Maybe "open a branch office here but keep the killings to a minimum". Maybe "determine if rice pudding is pesent here and report home findings"? Maybe "get Brad Pitt's autograph"? I'm kind of hoping for a more inspiring motivation.
You forget: aliens are alien. So is their psychology. We can't assume their motivations are comprehensible to us. As Asimov taught us, psychohistory won't work on aliens that we don't understand. For all we know, the protomolecule was their version of performance art - art done on a massive scale. Or maybe they were just having some fun.
Not having read the books, my first-blush suspicion by the end of Season 2 is that the protomolecule is a multifaceted biotech device. It basically fulfills two roles- terraforming/seeding device for worlds with primordial organics, and a berserker probe for cases like Sol system where it gets stuck in the outer system. For those unfamiliar with the berserker probe concept, the short version is that an advanced alien race that does not wish competition will seed star systems with the potential for intelligent life developing with probes that can only be activated or discovered by a species once it reaches a space-faring capability and technological advancement to be a potential threat to that race. Rather than systematically destroy thousands of star systems with valuable resources- which would require tremendous effort, investment in resources, and waste potential mineral and organic resource beds the race could use later- a simple probe allows a race advanced and curious enough to be a threat- but not so advanced as to know what they are messing with- to blow themselves up, metaphorically speaking. That's just my first-blush theory, time will tell :-)
#MyTheory The protomolecule is an alien-constructed dna virus; that is, it does to a dna strand what a virus does to a cell; take it over to use it to make copies of itself. It does this by cutting it into pieces and reassembling it, in a similar manner to what happens during sexual reproduction (two strands are chopped in half and recombined). The machinery that is used to create new molecules are simply new proteins expressed from the rewritten dna; after all, that's what proteins are and do now. Along the way, it adds a few capabilities. The key one is to be able to absorb radiation from any part of the em spectrum. This means it's able to absorb very high frequency radiation and use it to power itself (and as the largest amount of available energy will be in very high frequency em radiation it will prefer those), which will have huge ramifications for what kind of environments it will prefer. Note that the protomolecule warrior was not able to directly use protein action against the steel decking, when it wanted to get to the reactor core. It needed to break it. That's because the protomolecule needs dna to attack directly. Protein based activity may have been possible (high amounts of energy available to directly attack a metal) but would've been too slow or cost it too much energy... so smashing was the preferred option. This is important because this helps get to why it may have been convinced to go to Venus rather than Earth. Venus has a lot of energy available in the infrared part of the spectrum; far more than is available on Earth. And the atmosphere of Venus is a significantly better source of usable atoms: CO2 is the major component of Venus's atmosphere and it's far more amenable to organic chemistry via protein action than the largely nitrogen atmosphere of Earth.
The Buddhists say that you aren't your thoughts and opinions and memories that you aren't the noise in your head. That you are the "space" that allows consciousness to arise made self awear and that's what the Being is. This is why meditation is so crucial. All long term mediators start to see that they have thoughts but they aren't that noise. Oh by the way to the extent that you mistake your thoughts for yourself that's your ego.
Not sure if the protomolecule warrior walking on the surface of the Roci was evidence of it manipulating gravity or magnetism. It may just be exhibiting some kind of adhesion properties that it can manipulate at will. I think that's supported by the fact that we see it adhering to all kinds of surfaces on the Anubis and Eros.
I think the books specify that in the case of the Calibans, they're able to magnetise their feet. I have no doubt that the protomolecule could do the same thing and larger with gravity, though :P
It could also have been that when they animated the scene in the computer they just forgot the gravity was supposed to be off and animated it like a regular creature walking around.
maybe the alien race that made the protomolecule is not carbon based, and havn't take into account the reaction of the protomolecule when mixed with carbon based organism... maybe the protomolecule was just a probe, like our voyager or pioneer probes... maybe someday when the voyager reaches a distant solar system the depleted nuclear battery it carries does really shitty stuff to some silicon based organisms or something
If you think about it the protomolecule is similar to a human made automated Tree Cutter Machine that can also manufacture things with the trees it cuts down. It's automatic, kills living thing to use as building material and it builds stuff with that formally living thing. In the case of the PM we're the trees and it's not building Ikea Chairs but a Ring Gate.
#MyTheory : the reason the Protomolecule does not appear to be conscious is that its creators in-universe decided that they didn't want it to. They deliberately set its parameters so that it would only accomplish the goal they designed it accomplish, but let it have enough flexibility to creatively solve problems in pursuit of that singular goal.
Thats a nice idea. Assuming reality has an internal clockwork the molecule would use that as most of its function and only apply a directional information atop of it. and maybe a gateway to directly infulence matter.
SPOILER I have the advantage of seeing the next season by this time. So we now know that it has access to a vast library of technological knowledge. At this point, I think that the protomolecule is capable of communicating with other PM systems in other solar systems. Or at least works as a receiver in it's early stages, to receive instructions. You arguments about the PM having a multi-dimensional structure is an idea that also occurred to me. And it certainly explains the fascination the scientists have in the 'molecule', which may not actually be a molecule in the sense that we understand them.
The way the miller construct is written in Cibola Burn, I'd say the books DO argue for conscience to be an emergent property. The protomolecule has been written to kill programs before they become conscient, which is why a super smart AI like the protomolecule doesn't seem self-aware, but the Investigator (Miller) program it created to find out what happened starts to become more and more self-aware. It seems clear to me that if it had not destroyed itself, it'd have evolved into a fully self-aware AI.
#MyTherory: This is just from what I can understand of the protomolecule. Is that it was created by a more higher advanced culture or species and sent out into the galaxy to find suitable environments to kick start life on certain planets. For this to happen it sounds like it has some form of base code the adapts to the cellular life on developing worlds or it adapts simple cellular life to kickstart life as kind of a petri dish to see how life would evolve. Because Holden saw multiple different worlds when he interfaced with the ring itself. Some of the worlds looked to have been destroyed when they got to a certain evolutionary of life. When the protomolecule was by humans they started to mess with it to see what it was and how to manipulate it for their needs as either a weapon, possibly. Or to help humans to adapt better to living in space without all of the negative side effects of micro/zero gravity, vacuum and cosmic radiation on the human body. I hope that my explanation gives others food for thought on what the protomolecule might be.
It seems unlikely that the 'bulk' of pheobe was initially protomolocule. It's obviously capable of self-replicating by hijacking existing organic materials, and absorbing some forms of radiation. As such it would not need to start with a large mass if it expected to land on a life-bearing world and 'hijack' the local organic material to perform its function. Indeed, the show seems to suggest that a very small amount of protomolocule (a few kilos at most) was sufficient to activate the phenomena on Eros, given a sufficient input of radiation and biomass. Assuming the race that sent it was operating on some kind of realistic budget, its likely that they would have sent a fairly small amount of proto-molocule in some kind of well-shielded delivery mechanism, completely inactivated during its presumably very long voyage. This ship or pod is presumably what was captured by Saturn 2 billion years ago - where it probably formed the gravitational seed mass for local dust and rock to form a significant planetoid in orbit around Saturn. As such I'd expect that the vast bulk of Pheobe is made of local material that has accreted around the core delivery system. Had it been a large, complex mass of protomolocule at that stage, it would surely have activated on its approach to the solar system, and easily avoided the gravitational trap of saturn to reach its target, as we see Eros maneuvering at accelerations that would trivialize such a maneuver.
Based on virology (and simpler makes more sense for VN probes), you don't need a lot of a virus to start the replication process. You need 'enough' to beat the immune system - and LOTS of the host. So you are right on target.
Oh, it's just the Reapers. They accidentally had one of their ships blow up and a piece of it flew off for a few billion years before they could find it.
An interesting idea, but the scary part is that the Protomolecule Builders would wipe the floor with the Reapers. I truly don’t say this to be dismissive. I’m well versed in Mass Effect lore and love the series with my whole heart. But the Builders are just on a whole different level.
#Mytheory: in my mind (i didnt read the books) the #protomolecule is like a hive of nanomachines that are molecular in nature (just like dna) and it builds up itself from the things it interacts with. First with the humans it tries to immitate the cells and obviously fiddles with the brain but first instinctively as we can see on phoebie and later on eros it is much more developped as it has a much bigger hive and had more time to learn. It is logical to imagine that if it can communicate with itself(like we have seen with the lobotomized scientist) it evolves linearly even if parts of it is destroyed, and by the end in venus as it takes the ship apart it becomes even more controlled and intelligent as it accumulates more mass and energy. I disagree that it doesnt have contousness but I feel it is one entity and all of the pieces are just organs that are not required amd have limited intelligence like an ant in a hive dispendable but important.
I think its going to lead into Cosmic horror. Giant bio mass consuming life for more materials. I think when it becomes fully aware it will become like other depictions of planet/life consuming entities in lovecraft and other works (Check Dead Space 3)
Interestingly enough, the Protomolecule concept reminds me of the Beast from the Homeworld Catalclysm RTS game. It's an extrterrestrial biomechanical virus that subverts technology, absorbs them and control ships, people, etc.
It seems to me that you don't address the collective nervous super system linking the protomolecule from various locations - I know, very woo-woo kind of intelligence on display, but what category of physics/uplink would this fall under?
#MyTheory#Protomolecule The protomolecule is some sort of metaphor for weapons that civilization can create to destroy itself without ruining the rest of the series. It is a metaphor for nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, or even drugs that can be used to control other humans such as L.S.D, date rape, & cetera.
What I think is, that its super realistic and appears very close to the real thing... Regarding the thruster driven space crafts, I thind theese appear very exiting looking when they move and shoot around. How ever I think that the next series might introduce a revolution of a new propulsion in means of the Skunk Works1950-80+ FLT Flux Liner on electrogravitics instead of main fuel thrusters
This is a very late comment. The Expanse is one of my top two shows. And of my favs of all time. Great science fiction. You did an interesting analysis of the Protomolecule but didn't add the metaphysical or spiritual ingredient. The thing that make "The Expanse" a great show is not the theoretical science, it's the people. They become our friends through the seasons. We admire their courage, loyalty, love for each other and their worlds and their wonder of the Universe. The Protomolecule also respects this at some level. It's why it made Julie Mao the "Queen" of Eros. It KNEW at some level that she was a person of high integrity. The same applies to Miller and then Miller's ability to communicate with the equally courageous and honorable Holden. Why? I believe it was not just a sophisticated message from a far distant and ancient system but also a technology to enable people in OUR system to fight and destroy the Evil that destroyed them. But only certain people have the power to unleash the full power of the PM. Think Arthur and the sword he pulled from the stone.
Alright, i'm taking that "*on* the expanse" to mean that this only draws from the television series. If there are any spoilers from the books... Good channel from what i've seen previous. Thanks.
#MyTheory Why it used ladder - the scientists who made the hybrid obviously somehow tried to reprogram it to view everything like a hostile organism. Also they tried to limit its "intelligence", or erased some of its core functions rendering it primitive. I can imagine that by doing this and not completely knowing the structure or "programming" of the protomolecule, they made it to malfunction randomly, make inconsistent decisions. That is why we sometimes see it using ladder even if it does not have to, that is why we see it being extremely dangerous and killing everything it sees and then stopping and studying its "targets" - maybe that is the remnant of the original programming taking over - in order to adapt to new conditions, substances and new life, it has to study it first. That is why it decomposed Arboghast, why the black boy literally decomposed the nurse. Now I know that there was no reason in decomposing the nurse, the protomolecule already had to have all information it needed, but in my opinion this is the next symptom of tinkering with theo original programming. It tried to collect data it already had. Maybe that is exactly how they tried to reprogram it. They just embedded the instruction "study by decomposition" in infinite cycle(cycle without ending condition or an ending condition that is never met) - so it never stops collecting data by decomposing all people it sees and if its "targets" try to defend themselves, it sees that as an attack and in response defends itself. This would be an easy and "human" solution to a problem that is not really thoroughly understood. The company wanted to see results, we know that the protomolecule is extremely complex to understand and even the scientists who worked on it do not understand it, but it might be easy to identify or rather guess what a part of a code does and slap a while(1==1) cycle in front of it. Why it glows blue - the second law of thermodynamics tells us, that nothing is perfectly efficient and there are always losses. It may be that some process it executes releases photons of blue light instead of "ordinary" heat. We can see this in nuclear reactors. In fact, exactly this effect. It is called Cherekov radiation. When highly energetic particles in a nuclear reactor slow down due to a presence of a medium - the water in a nuclear reactor, they don't heat up the water, they actually release photons that even naked eye can see as a blue light. It is quite spectacular sight to stare down an operational nuclear reactor and see the core lit up in a cloud of blue mist. Yeah, you can do it, no you won't die, but yes, you will get a dose of radiation worth of a few CTs(also depends if you are looking through a glass or just a hole, in our research nuclear reactor/or rather neutron generator, we just need it for neutron generation, it does not really power things/ we have a reactor cyllinder that has just a big hole on the top, so we just power it down a little and open the hatch if we want to show off for visitors :) ). Why it needs organic material - quite simple. Because organic material is great for manufacture of complex materials. The most useful, interesting, strong, futuristic materials we now have are composites from polymers and some simple crystaline structure material - like carbon fiber or fiberglass. But without the polymeric compound that bonds the fiberglass or carbon fiber together, the material would not hold its shape, it would be a fabric. I think that the protomolecule construct is some kind of composite material. It uses some of the anorganic materials, that is why it can work on Venus where there is no life, and bonds it with complex structures made out of complex chemical substances of organic matter. Because it is much, much easier and takes much, much less energy to just ingest a protein than to actually create it from scratch/or elementary atoms common in space. It may not need exactly proteins to work but it maybe just repurposes organic matter by changing a few atoms in an insanely complex molecule. If you think about it, it makes sense. Protomolecule is exactly this. It is an insanely complex machine on molecular level. The only thing that we know and is this insanely complex are actually organic compounds in our body. This maybe tells us that its creators might not be advanced enough to create life or at least some kind of organic life-level of complexity and they can only repurpose this complex compounds. Or it might suggest that life can not be created by any civilization however advanced it might be. So not only consciousness in the expanse universe
@@DigitalDNA *Spoiler* The asteroid containing Protomolecule was launched towards Earth by the gate builders 2 billion years ago from a nearby star system. Its purpose was to crash into Earth and hijack early life and repurpose it to build the ring gate and possibly make Earth ready for colonisation of the gate builders who would come through the gate. Only the asteroid ended up getting caught by Saturn and it became the moon phoebe. The protomolecule on Phoebe was then discovered by humans who wanted to see what it's true purpose was, they just needed enough biological material to do it. So they infected Eros. The protomolecule wasn't expecting to come into contact with advanced life so it adapted and used Julie Mao as a pilot to fly Eros into Earth to complete its mission. She thought she was flying the razorback in a race, but she was convinced to crash into Venus instead by Miller. Once there it learned to use the human biological material it had into building the gate. "The work must continue" The gate was built and launched, but when it connected back to the network it found the gate builders were all gone. The protomolecule is somewhat intelligent and has programmed need to 'check-in' with its creators. So it has repurposed the absorbed memories and consciousness of Detective Miller to solve the mystery of what happened to the gate builders. Because Miller liked Holden, the protomolecule is "transmitting" a version of Miller directly to Holden's brain, allowing the protomolecule to see everything Holden can. That's why only he can see Miller and why Miller wanted Holden to connect with the gate builder archive in the middle of the ring space. The vision Holden has when he sticks his hand in the machine is what happened to the gate builders. Something started wiping them out system by system. In an attempt to fix the issue, the base in ringspace started blowing up "Infected" star systems by causing the stars to go supernova. Eventually, it shut down the gate system altogether and the builders succumb to their fate at the hands of an unknown enemy. Holden's arrival convinced the base that the gate network could be reopened - And that is where we are at the end of season 3.
In the show they said it acts differently everytime they experimented it was learning they needed more mass so they fed it eros station initially it was only consuming biomass after venus it learn to consume other materials
It seems to be a way for aliens to colonize though out the galaxy. It also appears to work like a fungus to consume or change biomaterial to conform to its own matrix or as an example DNA if humanity were attempting to colonize over vast distances in space.
#mytheory: Obviously I'm a little late to the party seeing as this video is two months old, but here's my idea. We know that molecule arrived 2 billion years ago, that it's alien in origin, and that it can assimilate basically anything and turn it into matter/energy. Now, two billion years is an enormous amount of time, and seeing as how a race sufficiently advanced enough to have created the molecule probably has space flight, I doubt seriously that it is an ark kind of thing. Terraforming makes slightly more sense because the molecule basically turns everything around it into an alien environment that seems to be able to survive anywhere and survive almost anything short of a complete purge via incineration. (Obviously this is based on what we've seen so far.) So the molecule would make a perfect terraforming device in that it can survive damn near anything and is able to turn whatever's around it into an alien environment. It's also extremely fast spreading meaning that terraforming could be done in a year or two. That being said it didn't work and instead landed on a moon where it went dormant. Why did it go dormant? Personally I think it has to have a jump start using other organic material. Assuming that it is a terraforming device I would assume it would be aimed at earth where there was enough microscopic life to 'jump start' the process. Of course the molecule missed which means that it failed. Assuming that whoever created it was sufficiently advanced they would have been able to pop over to earth and drop it on the planet then wait around until everything was ready for them to live on. Now on to my, probably less compelling theory, which is that the molecule is a fuel source. So you're an alien cruising around the galaxy doing alien stuff like exploring new planets, probing hillybillies, and getting up to Nijinsky like the Enterprise crew did. Unfortunately your ship needs power of some kind. You need to be able to refill it easily without having to go back to colonized worlds every couple of days, which means that you need a source that is almost never ending. Fusion is a great option, but I'm sure there are limits to it that I don't know, so your scientists look around and come up with an amazing idea. They build a molecule that, when introduced to organic and to a lesser extent inorganic matter, reproduces quickly with the byproduct of also creating energy at the same time. You now have an energy source that you can feed with garbage, waste material and plants, which will continue to produce energy while you fly around. Obviously this is assuming that the aliens have a way to harness the energy produced, but still I think it's a decent argument. How the molecule ended up on a moon in our system is of course open to conjecture, maybe a fuel leak, maybe it's just a byproduct of the fuel, who knows. All I'm saying is that it's something to consider.
I may, but I've mostly been focusing on media and we're not sure yet how closely future seasons will follow the books. That may make a good show though so I'll hold onto that idea. Thanks for watching.
#protomolecule, I think the protomolecule is a form of photonic life and technology mixed together made from ancient particles such as light. These photons would have been deconstructed in a lab and assembled as matter version of the light we know with all sorts of weird properties and strengths due. To the particles small sizes
Why do you think Phoebe consist mostly of protomolecules? If that were the case, wouldn't it have been discovered this century already, or whenever the moon is investigated a ltitle more closely? I always assumed that there was just a little bit of protomolecule smeared onto it, maybe with some dust sprinkled over it and then sent to the solar system. I didn't get why you think the protomolecule proves that consciousness is inherent to matter, rather than emergent in the Expanse universe. Could you elaborate on that? Maybe protomolecular algorithms caused Julie to regain consciousness. In which episode did they mention that it must have been around for 2 billion years? #MyTheory: It was meant to be found by spacefaring life from Earth, so that it would be "uplifted" to the level of development of whoever created it and join their interstellar community, kinda like the monoliths in the Space Odyssey series. It would have been nicer if Eros' sudden movement toward Earth wasn't due to some reactionless drive ability that the protomolecule has, but if it started emitting radiation in the opposite reaction, thus becoming a photon rocket of sorts.
#mytheory#protomolecule. I think the way the protomolecule learns is by copying structures of things like tissue (like the brains of its victims) and very hard materials based on some of its properties like the gates, and in the case of Eros, basically doing what Julie is dreaming. By the way, I was not expecting you to do an episode on the protomolecule.
(basing this only on the show, didn't read the books) I don't see how The Expanse disprove the consciousness as something emergent in the series, the fact that the protomolecule is not conscious can just be the case of it not being complex enough. #MyTheory is that it reaches some basic animal-like level of consciousness (as in, having an idea of "self" ) when it's human shaped, and has less capabilities when it's just a sort of "spore". As bigger\more complex the system gets, it reaches a point where it gains consciousness and from there it kind of explodes exponentially in intelligence too, like reaching a tipping point, almost like the matter change of state (fluid\airborne\solid). It's interesting the case of Eros: where the protomolecule itself was not conscious but was merging with a consciousness (Julie Mao), thus maybe on the verge of gaining consciousness by first acting as a parasite. Maybe the whole goal of the protomolecule could be to find a way to gain consciousness in the end as it could be the best way to spread itself to other solar systems in a sort of reproduction cycle: get as complex as possible in the current system (the by product of that is gaining consciousness), then build a way to send basic protomolecule outside the system, in a million\billion years voyage, then repeat
The protomolocule shows no signs of attaining consciousness, even when it achieves incredibly high levels of complexity - arguably orders of magnitude beyond that needed to achieve human intelligence - such as on Eros, or in the ring Core station. This pretty much suggests that in the universe of the Expanse, either consciousness simply is not an emergent property of complexity/intelligence, or the protomolocule has been explicitly programmed to inhibit the development of consciousness, no matter what level of complexity it achieves. The idea that consciousness is not emergent in that universe is further reinforced by the fact that the proto-molocule is seen to highjack and make use of entities and their consciousness WITHOUT exhibiting those properties itself - treating it as simply another useful phenomenon, such as magnetism or inertia. Thus the strong indication that it is an INHERENT property that it is examining and making use of, much as it uses those other ones, even though it never develops into an individual consciousness itself.
Imagine if Nanotech surpassed atoms - that's protomolecule. It's all a tool and it operates beyond the human known limits of nature - it can change nature. Here's another thought - when describing the protomolecule soldier as still treating things as though there was gravity, perhaps because it was built from a kid - a belter kid born and raised on Ganymede - is it possible that it limited itself on its own understanding of gravity - since he had never experienced free fall, could the soldier understand it enough to react to it or is there some subjective mechanism to it perhaps? I know that it still obeys thermodynamics but even so protomolecule tech conducts energy remarkably well and sometimes outputs are exponential. The ring station at the centre of the ring space is apparently inertia free, so much that even placing rail guns on it don't require any thrust to compensate for recoil - the energy gets dumped in the form of light - and in a later book after an incidental attack on the ring station, apparently huge gamma Ray bursts came out of the rings far enough to cook a few ship crews to death - and surrounding the rings, virtual particle activity shot up "like space was boiling" - so I hope there will be some big reveal as to how it all recall works, perhaps its ability to retain the consciousnesses of integrated organisms (maybe more like a shadow of the real thing) is an example of how it works on levels that our perceptions of consciousness and energy vs matter don't apply to it in the ways we're used to. Or rather that's just #mytheory on the matter. I feel like this Sci fi is almost on par with the classical epics like Solaris.
#mytheory protomolecule purpose seemed to be to build the gate so in a sense it must be a self assembly system whose activation trigger must be species advanced enough to be connected to the original probe creators.The system would only come into life after sufficient intelligent bio matter came into its contact as a way to assess the stage of life there.such probes could have been sent out to promising solar systems around the world and activate once the life there became intelligent enough to make contact.its might also require power in terms of heavy radiation that only intelligent life could build so another way of ensuring a intelligent life species has developed
I think the protomolecule warriors have some kind of mechanism in their feet not unlike geckos, that bond at the atomic level to the surfaces they're walking on.
#mytheory The proto-molecule is not necessarily a particle, but rather a disturbance in four dimensional space-time, resulting from some higher-dimensional event. So, similar to how particles in our dimension are created essentially as excitations in their respective fields, the proto-molecule was formed the same way, except its specific field lies in an upper dimension as opposed to four dimensional universe. Therefore, the molecule has the ability to warp space at the three-dimensional level and essentially break our current understanding of physics. Maybe the alien race that sent it had learned to harness material from other dimensions?? (I don't know, I'm going out on a limb here). So, because the proto-molecule was meant to land on Earth 2 billion years ago, it's possible that the molecule was a sort of colonization device. The proto-molecule was sent to Sol with instructions to build an extra-dimensional portal on Earth so that the alien civilization could colonize the planet. That's why the pm can replicate itself in organic and non-organic matter and why it seems to expand on its own, as well as manipulate the fabric of space. Kind of a weird theory, I know, but it sort of makes a bit of sense, I think
I don't know if I'd compare the protomolecule to the white walkers. The protomolecule really doesn't care about humans and answers to another force that doesn't know or care about them either. Humans just happen to get in the way sometimes.
Good point. i wasn't comparing the protomolecule itself as much as the way people are acting in the show. In both shows they are focused on these petty political in-fights while the real threat is looming in the distance. Thanks for watching and for the comment.
my theory, to how consious-intelligenz like ours works is that our biochemical brain constantly makes up for little mistakes that accure regularly and that give us basicaly our creativity without these imperfections, so in my theory every unconventional idea is a result of them.
Alternatively. Read the books. The story in bookform is a loooooong way ahead of where the series is. Spoiler alert: The protomolecule is < CENSORED! >
I think the proto-molecule is conflicted inside organic life. It doesn't want to infect organ life. It's a machine AI that's more concerned about conservation of energy rather than the conservation of entropy like organic life does. It is a construct made by synthetic life itself to better it's own constructs and reduce their limitations just like organic life struggles to reduce it's entropy. One reason why it's constantly in search of powered devices. If it only wanted ionic radiation it would get plenty close enough to the stars. Reason why I think the research ship sent on Venus only disintegrated as individual parts like an exploded view to better understand technology humans built.
The protomolecule is just a repackaged variation of something another writer invented almost a century ago. It’s just a shaggoth from the Cthulhu Mythos of HP Lovecraft. It’s an alien multi tool servitor race (slave species). It’ll create cities or become a weapon... whatever is needed.
Regarding consciousness, the Protomolecule proved itself quite capable of hijacking, and to some degree replicating consciousness - but I have to agree that it showed little or no sign of consciousness itself, and seemed to simply treat the phenomena as yet another tool, like fusion or inertial control. In fact, given the events in the books, I'm led to wonder if the protomolecule *builders* were even conscious in the manner that humans are accustomed to. We are given almost no hints about this, as our viewpoint characters are never given the opportunity to explore the morphology of the ruins of that civilization - so the builders could be almost anything. I personally suspect that the builders didn't share the same kind of consciousness that humans possess. Perhaps they were an intelligent insectoid colony species without a sense of self, or something similarly alien - the robotic servitors that the protomolecule creates at a few points hint that their builders may have preferred some kind of insectoid, mantis-like morphology at any rate. It's also possible that the builders possessed and understood consciousness, but *intentionally* withheld the direct capacity for it from the protomolecule - an entirely understandable precaution if one would prefer to retain complete control over your AI nano-machine that probably has the ability to deconstruct entire planets should it really feel like it. Kinda got to keep that on a short leash.
We actually have a few textual clues as to what kind(s) of intelligences the builders were. In chapter 25 of Abbadon's Gate, Holden's 'peek' into the goings-on of their civilization around the time that things started going south for them is rather informative. Holden notes 'voices, millions, billions, lifted in chorus...'. Note the use of the plural here. In the next paragraph we read 'a few voices... went silent, and if the great chorus of his being was lessened by them, it wasn't perceptible.' So, Holden is aware of a vast number of distinct, discrete intelligences (he thinks of them as 'voices') but he's experiencing some version of the ending of the Builder civilization as an overwhelmingly sensory narrative structure through the prism of his consciousness. For me, this suggests the Builders were not a hive mind, and least not in the traditional sense, but that part of the fundamental fabric of their society was a sharing of thoughts, personalities, modes of being facilitated through some technology in some way related to the that which allows the Ring Network to communicate instantaneously and non-locally. Also, remember that Holden must touch the plate nub in the center of the station to 'reset' certain functions of the Network and allows the Investigator to begin its work. In the same chapter, the Miller-construct (which is not a thing in and of itself, but rather an avatar used by the Investigator neurally tailored to Holden so as to most fruitfully interact with him) cops to needing Holden to touch the plate nub not because Holden is in anyway 'special', at least not for the purposes of the program at that moment, but because he simply existed on the material level. The Miller-construct says 'You're actually here. In the substrate. In some quarters, that's kind of a big deal.' I think this is a fairly strong clue that the Builders considered material reality the 'true' reality, or at least the 'most significant' because of its finality. It takes an authority high up to initiate the processes the Investigator has interest in *from afar*, but any gorilla on the street can touch the plate nub and kick the dominos. This means that when the shit hits the fan, even incredibly advanced and resource-rich 'disembodied' intelligences depended on real, concrete beings walking/swimming/floating around. Lastly, from the same chapter, Holden experiences the consensus of decision making when he is shown the Builders deciding to quarantine the surviving systems away from each other. '... and a million farewells, one to the other' it reads. Strangely, when noting that the gates were shut down amid a sense of hope rather than fear, the text reads 'The vast mind restored.' This is singular, but I think is used poetically, rather than indicating the Builders really were (or saw themselves as) one mind. Given this information, I'm led to believe that the Builders could be anything animal-like as organisms, including insectoid, so long as these insectoids were not eusocial or had evolved beyond it. I think eusocial organisms would not experience the rich breadth of conscious diversity Holden was privy to when he was touching that plate nub.
CryLittleSister It’s a biomechanical utility device used by the aliens as a means for creating new rings and opening up new paths for colonization. As far as we know, the reason the aliens are gone is because the Protomolecule failed to produce a gate in the Sol system, resulting in critical shortages and eventual war.
Just my own ideas, I think the molecule was being sent to mars. Every planet beyond the rings are habitable. I think the protomolucule was sent here because earthand mars were detected, but the builders knew mars would become uninhabitable, but not earth. The protomolucule would do is thing on mars, and allow humanity to evolve to one day make contact.I also think that ours was the last sent out.
Throwing this into the consciousness discussion... Google 'robots learn to lie to each other'. It should lead to a 2009 experiment on evolving algorithms. The gist is robots learning to not announce when they found food, the opposite of the original programming. It may have been debunked, so let me know. It not, it may point to a future more like D4veocracy than Terminator, but it gives us something to think about.
Presumably that is plasma, which is so hot it's a whole separate state of matter. They could have fired the engines at very low acceleration and still burned the creature up so I don't really have a problem with that. Thanks for watching!
Maybe the ancient ring builders were destroyed by their own protomolecule technology, or else assimilated by it. If they were not biological as we understand life here, then the merging of protomolecule technology with human consciousness and biological coding could be something totally new. (I have not seen the series, only just discovering material about it recently).
There is a very good sci-fi book called Blindsight that goes into the idea of consciousness vs. intelligence. Without giving too much away, it theorizes consciousness is a glitch, and that raw horsepower intelligence is better, in the end.
BuckeyeStorms "Better" is a value-based term. Raw intelligence without value-based understandings of experience (eg Better, worse, useful, dangerous/avoid) is kind of empty, devoid of reference to potentiality, and an incomplete form of intelligence because it lacks "consciousness".
#MyTheory has always been that it is not biological in nature but a nanotechnology patterned on biology or at least similar principles such as employing an advanced DNA-like information storage and duplication.
how its AI runs: structural batteries. we are developing batteries which keep the voltage within the atomic structure of the material itself. that's how protomol makes "neural nets" within the material itself, and that's what drives it. the "people being heard in the signal" is just atrifacrs of the structures that protomol kept because most of them are useful in some way. if it encountered single-cell organisms, as intended, it wuold rebuild almost everything. but it didn't, it encoutered self-aware beings, meaning it could skip over several abstraction steps in its programming, by keeping parts of he cognitive structure of the people it infected. so that's what it did, naturally. anything beyond this would still be speculation.
Well I am not a scientist, but I have a scientific mind... I have seen the first season... I thought it wasn't too bad... As far as the protomolecule, I believe it's an organic life force that recognizes basic compounds like carbon, iron & reacts to electricity. Even the basics animals and lower life forms have electricity. We know from our own instincts and instincts from other animals of our own world we will consume food of any sort of it will insure our survival... Mayby this protomolecule recognizes something thing it can use as food and or insures it's survival in addition to recognizing an intelligence to help with its evolution...
#protomolecule, I think it is some form of alternative life form. The name itself gives it away I think. "Proto" meaning ancient. What is more ancient then photons itself. Could they be deconstructed into particles of matter that are all fundamental particles as well as the light they came from. If so they would be tiny and have strange properties like quantum gravity. So in essence if you break down photons so there energy is outputted as matter particles of wich there is four; matter, antimatter, negative mass matter, negative mass antimatter; you can make photonic matter and photonic life that can use radiation as a fuel source since its "molecules" are closer together and more tightly bonded. This can then be made to destroy stars Aswell using the stars own energy as seen in season three. They can infect humans and use our matter to make more of themselves too. Make rings to make wormholes etc. Hence the name "proto-molecule" and it would be very very versatile. I Think as a result this concept is more real then anyone else realizes. And photons are not positive energy with neutral mass, they are neutral in all ways and the generation of protomolecule would require photons to be stimulated to form into either positive or its negative matter half wich can then have its charges altered by hitting it with another photon of the same frequency or maybe higher. The photon may even split into two right away who knows, but the implications are big. It would be nice to see if we could make protomolecule in real life using the process I stated just now, and figure out how to do it. It would require reanalysing what and how a photons wave structure is like because right now I don't think we know as much as we think about them.
SPOILER!!! ......Apperently it is building a Stargate on Venus which will connect the Solarsystem to a Gatenetwork and it is a programmed Matter and only got half sentient because it absorbed a lot of Humans. Which also Dresden referred to, then Miller shot him ;).
It is quite a clever concept if you are a civilization trying to expand throughout the galaxy. You just send loads of this stuff out everywhere programmed to use organic life it finds to use to build gates. You would only be interested in planet that could sustained life. So send this stuff out it finds a planet which can support life you get a gate, it doesn't find life no big loss, clever.
OK so my #mytheory, which I am only posting here is this.....I think that the protomolecule was an alien "transported" teraforming/ panspermia substance to colonize another solar system or even multiple solar systems in other star systems and or galaxies! After given the degree of how vast space actually is, imagine if you were a dying alien race that had the technology to literally "pepper" the universe with a reanimating "mold" or "model" of your own image of "life" and wanted to give that life a "second chance" it would almost be easier to send out a "ship" with all the stuff required to both "teraform" and populate your new world as a molecule then it would be to send a living "subject" (i.e. a person) to another star system! Even now scientist have considered a way to send humans to another solar system would be by mixing all the genetic material into a "soup" of sorts and then launch the ship towards a new star system at a planet that may support life!!! So while it is still basically "theory" there are some roots in actually science to this same idea!!! Because even now a person just can't live long enough to fly to the nearest star at the speeds we can achieve and we haven't figured out how to make a space craft move any faster either!!! Besides too FTL (Faster than light) travel would kill a person, and we can't figure out how to create a "warp drive" yet, or even put people in hibernation either!!! So it would only make sense with our technology now that if the "soup" theory holds up we'd be able to send human DNA and genetic material into space and hope that in a million or billion years it lands on its target planet and "becomes" human beings through evolution as it did on this planet! There are other factors to consider why and how this could be done and had a alien civilization figured out how to "accelerate the process" of both teraforming, and combining their DNA into a similar or new species (which could be why in The Expanse, it reanimated Julie Mao) then you could spread our "life form" into other areas of the universe much faster and cheaper as well!!! And again this is based in science to some degree as well! Sure the new life form wouldn't be an "exact copy" of what you once started out with.....but if given the right parameters you could have a "life form" that was pretty close to your own if you could use alien DNA that was close or similar to your own to give your new "life" a nudge in the direction you want it to go!! But you would have to know genetics on a far more advanced level and have an amazing grasp of other sciences as well, including space travel, and planetary composition and so on! Which is why too I think the protomolecule can also teraform and planet because from what I have seen in the show of what is happening to Venus, it is "altering" the planet in a way to give birth to a new life form as well, and give it a home too! So THAT is my theory....and with my understanding of science it would make perfect sense that the protomolecule was "developed" to transport an alien life form to the stars in the only way they knew how!!! Though there were not aware that millions or billions of years later humans would even exist to alter those plans! And perhaps getting trapped in Saturn's orbit was a small miscalculation to their plans as well! Lastly perhaps the protomolecule was a part of the processes that was supposed to "happen" to us, and was just never "delivered" to the earth as well.....which is really mind blowing to think about, becuase maybe the protomolecule was "supposed to be" part of our DNA all along.....but that part of the "soup"just never made it to earth.....so we lost part of our "DNA" because it was on a different "ship" that was trapped in Saturn's orbit!! It gives you something to think about, when you dig into the "what ifs" of the show.....and I haven't read the books......but that is my only other logical conclusion to it all!!! And for me not much of a leap either!!! Heck I love science, even though I was just a high school graduate without any college training what so ever!!!!!
#MyTheory I haven't read past Nemesis Games so I have some catching up to do, but it seems to me that the aliens had a very forward thinking self rescue plan.. If I remember correctly they were taken out by some other alien species that I have yet to see.
If anyone is familiar with the game Destiny and the a.i. SIVA you see how similar it is to the protomolocule i thought this was informative and interesting
Nano-tech in the way Sci-fi refers to it, will never exist. The tech is way to complicated. You're talking about something that is microscopic size that has the ability to store massive amounts of information AND self-replicate at an astounding speed. On a sidenote: Julie has a rockin' body.
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It's something very clever what they did on season 1. They set up a very "down to earth" universe, with well known physics that are just a tiny more advanced than ours, and then when they were going to hit Eros to the sun you are basically thinking "that's it, its unavoidable, Eros is going to be destroyed, Miller is going to die" because you can't find another option within the rules that were established so far. And then they change the rules, that's a deus ex machina, which would be infuriating, but after the first shock the deus ex machina becomes a major plot direction and a lot of information. So, the Deus ex Machina becomes, in hindsight, just a reveal about the protomolecule's capability and a hint to the size of the unknown universe and the amount of things humans don't know.
This is brilliant. The Deus Ex Machina adds to the intrigue and makes the story better instead of detracting from it.
It took me out of the show almost entirely. What took me out completely was that they showed repeatedly that fire destroyed the molecule... yet it survived a meteor impact. Then they fell back on the old trope, "physics we just don't understand", which is just a way to excuse magic. My wife and I were taking bets on whether it was going to be revealed to be God... that's how far afield it went.
@@johnterpack3940The characters in the story already knew that if Eros hit Earth, or if they nuked it, some protomolecule might survive. That's why they were going to hit it with the Nauvoo and send it into the sun. So that it would completely burn away.
The protomolecule was planning to go to Earth in order to use the biomass on the planet. When Miller convinces Julie to influence the protomolecule's "work" she's able to move it to Venus. We heard it from her mouth "You can't stop the work."
The protomolecule was planning to continue its work after impacting Earth.
@@johnterpack3940 They never showed fire destroy the protomolecule. They showed the drive plume of a fusion drive destroy it, that's not just fire.
@@tinamoul they also showed them burning it off the hull with torches. Still, the drive plume would be nothing compared to the heat of a meteor strike.
Nice clip sir,
Here is #MyTheory on this: Going with the info provided in the books, the protomolecule (from now on PM) was sent at Earth to use microbacterial life to make a stargate, which would connect to the precursor system. It seems to me, simply due to the number of gates, that this was a fairly routine process. To make the gate, the PM probably got a set of instructions to work with the bacteria which were common on target planets, and an AI system with learning capabilities to salvage the mission if something goes different.
I expect PM would spread like a virus among bacteria, but instead of working the bacteria to death it would work them normally but PM would prevent predation and all surplus due to not needing to avoid predators goes into PM replication. If there is enough PM, it goes into a building mode where it cares less about lifeforms and just starts working the rock on which it landed into the stargate. This means it will need life to start a strong replication process, but after a while it can ignore life.
When PM found itself in multicellar organisms, it used the bacteria control systems at first to try and make sense of the large creatures, but this leads to cancerous growths and weird appendages(the Julie in the bath stage). In the meantime, the AI system started learning about the inner workings of humans, eventually learning how to move and acces memories(finale book 1, somewhere in season 2). During this time, the PM tries to actively invade biological life for its own replication. The replication would cover all of Eros, and out of the humans' memories it finds both existential threats(to be avoided) and a place with a ton of life and minerals(to be infected). So then when large enough to begin largescale physics breaking operations, it moves to dodge attacks and flies at Earth. By now PM is quite massive, and eventually the PM goes into 'ignore life mode', and then reads new input from the minds of the humans(helped by Miller): 'destroying Earth is bad'. As it doesn't need life anymore, just minerals, it can then be convinced to go to Venus, which also statifies it's goals.
Interesting, but might want to slap a big ol' spoiler warning at the start, luckily i've read the books but I'd probably have been pissed at the mention of the ring gates and precursor civ if I hadn't! =)
The spread of the PM in Eros, was engineered by humans. We can't know what it might've done without intervention.
Later when it spreads in ships during the space battle, it already has ample experience with humans, and it's behavior would be informed.
Mennolt van Alten correct
Akin Khoo Good Point.
The moment he meets her on Eros station is sublimely beautiful and I forgot my senses. This show has the science to suck you in but floats into the magic of the possible science, step by step. You set the show in the realm of the possible then expand, let's see if the believe-ability sustains itself. This whole thing could get very floaty. I only hope and prey the writers, directors actors and producers are up to the challenge in future seasons.
Spoilers ahead:
I think that it moved Eros using an alcubierre drive. We do know that the protomolecule is able to create Einstein-Rosen bridges like the Ring, which require exotic matter, and so does the alcubierre drive. It fits the bill perfectly, as there was no acceleration for people on it, but it was accelerating at over 20g.
Maybe they never thought about that concept, and it got the idea from some highly educated people it devoured on Eros?
The tricky bit is that now way is the structure of Eros going to hold together in once piece if you apply 20 G of acceleration to it from some sort of "drive". As was mentioned in the video.. was the increase in temperature of Eros somehow a consequence of the hand-wavy magical unknown physics that allows inertia or mass to be manipulated?
@@lmamakos Isn't that the beauty of the Alcubierre drive? It doesn't move an object so much as it folds space time and move the universe around that fold which could feasibly bypass the speed of light. Although, Eros seemed like it was traveling at sub-lightspeed initially and then accelerating without limit or change in acceleration due to gravity within the planetoid/asteroid.
@@exmachin3926 i think it still needs energy thus limiting acceleration by that but none the less it is able to accelerate extremely quickly without inertia
@@lmamakos Eros was not affected by inertia as me tinned by Miller, so it's possible that that prevented Eros from crumbling.
#MyTheory
The PM Warrior used the ladder because the child it assimilated was familiar with them.
Had the host known how to access a Reactor by opening doors and reading signs I feel that it would not have wasted time trying to rip the floor open to get to it.
Bravo. I hadn't thought that one through till you pointed it out.
Cpt_Kraboo That makes perfect sense. Thanks
It reaches out, it reaches out, it reaches out.
113 times a second, nothing answers- and it reaches out.
Someone who read the books, who read the books, who read the books.
Doors and corners. This could get ugly, kid.
"well, that's it, than".
I dont get it I dont get it I domnt get it
I always thought the strand-like structures in Eros looked like giant neurons.
I had the same idea. I thought it was basically confirmed, keya? (Unless I'm mixing up Sci-Fi universes [flood or something])
Radiotrophic fungus (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiotrophic_fungus) converts gama into useful energy
That's awesome!! Thanks for linking that. I know of some radio-isotopic reducing microorganisms but haven't read any that actually use it for metabolism.
DNA is actually a very simple coding sequence. Yet it contains all the information needed to build and operate the incredibly complex human body.
Now imagine what could be done with an engineered coding sequence orders of magnitude more complex. A human is essentially a heuristic machine. It learns, although it has limits as to the depth of its learning. Vastly expand those limits and imagine the levels of understanding that could be obtained. "Godlike" is nearly apt.
I like these videos. You should make them as long as they need to be. I find it annoying when I hear RUclips creators apologizing for the length of their videos. You shouldn't pander to the perpetually dwindling human attention span.
Molecule's mission is actually simple, its some type of agent have solely one mission only, to build ring gates, its makers deployed it in space so when its reach in specific type of system that can be mineral rich, or habitable world it start to collect necessary materials to build gate, while on this if it encounters any resistance it creates its own soldiers to finish it, but it also memorize the materials or organic beings absorbed by for information or infiltration, so what is protomolecule? simple its extremely hightech nanite colony that given a purpose
My thoughts on the Protomolicule super soldier is that it's what you get when the Protomolicule is artificially manipulated, this form only exists because humans made it that way. It's natural state is what it becomes when it merged or absorbed Julie into itself. I may be wrong, I haven't read the novels but from watching the show that's the impression I got.
I kind of figured it's some sort of nanoscale constructor that just has the ability to self-optimize and massively network. It's like an intelligent version of the grey goo catastrophe.
Fav show on Amazon Prime/Netflix right now.
BTFO Star Wars/Star Trek STD/etc
Good writing coupled with realism/politics cannot be beat in cinema. For all genres including yes... Sci Fi.
My theory is the proto-molecule is a force-carrier boson, somewhat akin to strange matter -- it converts all matter that it contacts into the same type of matter. The force the carrier carries is itself a prerequisite for emergent consciousness.
#mytheory **Note: I haven't read the books, this is just my opinion based on the series
The Protomolecule is, in my opinion, the next evolution in nanotechnology. nanotech uses tiny robots to re-order and construct material according to it's program. The Proto-molecule takes the robot part out, and makes a molecule that can be programmed at a quantum level to replicate and build according to said program. This, of course gives it the benefits that nanotech may not have in that Nanotech may be broken or corrupted due to EMP or other plagues of technology in space, it simply sits inert till it reaches a position where enough radiation energy is available for it to start it's program (AKA, when the probe crashes on a planet that gets enough solar radiation to charge up the molecule and get it working).
The reason it assimilates and takes over living beings is simple. Energy efficiency. The molecule itself could expend energy to convert say water, carbon, silicon etc into more of itself or more complex structures needed for it's programming, but organic life has between 15 and 70 Trillion little factories in it designed for the purpose of creating complex molecules (Cells). it therefore is more energy efficient to take over even just a portion of those and set them to replicating more of the protomolecule and other compounds needed than it is for it to make the conversion on it's own. (This may also be why Earth was the target during a period with simple cellular organisms, where it could use those in it's conversion without any thought given to those creatures evolving at all, like building a foundation with no thought given to the anthills or worms in the soil for the building.)
Naturally in order to carry out it's programmed instructions it has to have some kind of adaptability to it's programming, Especially given the time frame required. If you launch it at a planet you eventually want to live on and decide to send a terraforming nanotech molecule to convert it to your specifications, it has to be adaptable to handle all manner of possibilities that may arise. Just because target Planet X is most likely to have conditions A, B and C, doesn't mean a stellar collision, solar flare, or other dramatic change may have occurred in the thousands of years or more between launching of the probe and it's arrival. So by it's very nature it has to be if not a Complete AI, at least a Adaptable Simulated intelligence with abilities to adapt it's programming as needed.
This level of quantum Adaptable AI may also be it's weakness, in that the protomolecule may never have been intended to come into contact with intelligent life. This is what leads to the whole being Corrupted by Julie while it was corrupting her. Similar to the Quantum state where until observed a particle is in a state of Flux or probability. (See Observer Effect, with particles behaving like waves unless observed and thus forced to perform as particles by the act of being observed.) Effectively the act of it using her as it's incubation factory caused it's program (At least that sample used on Eros/Venus) to become merged with her at a quantum level as the mere act of using intelligent cellular life to replicate caused a carry over of aspects from that intelligence into the program. (One could get into things like Cellular memory and so on but that's still quite a bit out there theoretical.) The "Recovery mode" As mentioned in the Video may be part of the reason for this also.
And just to finish up with a fun little quote from a Sci-Fi Game I was involved in:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
~Arthur C. Clarke
"Would it make your monkey-brain any more at ease if I yelled: 'Abracadabra' after each shot?"
~Un-named Secter Ranger regarding his plasma rifle.
It's difficult to examine the science behind the proto-molecule - though I respect your efforts - given that it is by definition the creation of advanced aliens who are truly beyond our level of comprehension; it is explicitly capable of violating all known laws of physics. I mean, it's like trying to analyze the science behind the Monoliths in 2001: A Space Odyssey. Clarke's Third Law: technology so advanced and beyond us that it might as well be magic.
The Dragon Demands I would agree that discussing the technical specifics of the protomolecule are unproductive. We just don't know. But there must be a level we can begin discussions on... psychology, motivation. What could the motivation of the originators of the protomolecule have been? Can we agree that the originators probably have self-preservation in common with us?
So the story goes that the protomolecule arrived in our solar system roughly 2 billion years ago. I just can't see aliens with access to protomolecule technology feeling threatened by Earth-bound pond scum so I could reasonably deduce that the protomolecule's mission was not extermination. This may go some way to explaining why Miller could convince Julia/protomolecule so easily to opt for Venus over Earth. Had the mission been extermination Julia/protomolecule's reaction would probably have been "thanks for locating the vermin for me".
Could the originators have been motivated by curiosity? Learn everything about the star system and its inhabitants. The most expediant way to have done that would have been dismantling and examining everything and then send the findings home. The taste of human knowledge of 100,000+ human inhabitants on Eros would have whet PM's appetite to be followed up by absorbing Earthlings. So no, unless PM had subtle programming "find out about as much as possible but keep the killing to a minimum".
Maybe "open a branch office here but keep the killings to a minimum". Maybe "determine if rice pudding is pesent here and report home findings"? Maybe "get Brad Pitt's autograph"? I'm kind of hoping for a more inspiring motivation.
You forget: aliens are alien. So is their psychology. We can't assume their motivations are comprehensible to us. As Asimov taught us, psychohistory won't work on aliens that we don't understand. For all we know, the protomolecule was their version of performance art - art done on a massive scale. Or maybe they were just having some fun.
Not having read the books, my first-blush suspicion by the end of Season 2 is that the protomolecule is a multifaceted biotech device. It basically fulfills two roles- terraforming/seeding device for worlds with primordial organics, and a berserker probe for cases like Sol system where it gets stuck in the outer system.
For those unfamiliar with the berserker probe concept, the short version is that an advanced alien race that does not wish competition will seed star systems with the potential for intelligent life developing with probes that can only be activated or discovered by a species once it reaches a space-faring capability and technological advancement to be a potential threat to that race.
Rather than systematically destroy thousands of star systems with valuable resources- which would require tremendous effort, investment in resources, and waste potential mineral and organic resource beds the race could use later- a simple probe allows a race advanced and curious enough to be a threat- but not so advanced as to know what they are messing with- to blow themselves up, metaphorically speaking.
That's just my first-blush theory, time will tell :-)
6:00 electrons are not made of quarks tho, electrons seem to be fundamental.
Incorrect ... electrons are made out of love
I assumed that the proto molecule was an alien von Neumann probe.
#MyTheory The protomolecule is an alien-constructed dna virus; that is, it does to a dna strand what a virus does to a cell; take it over to use it to make copies of itself. It does this by cutting it into pieces and reassembling it, in a similar manner to what happens during sexual reproduction (two strands are chopped in half and recombined). The machinery that is used to create new molecules are simply new proteins expressed from the rewritten dna; after all, that's what proteins are and do now. Along the way, it adds a few capabilities. The key one is to be able to absorb radiation from any part of the em spectrum. This means it's able to absorb very high frequency radiation and use it to power itself (and as the largest amount of available energy will be in very high frequency em radiation it will prefer those), which will have huge ramifications for what kind of environments it will prefer.
Note that the protomolecule warrior was not able to directly use protein action against the steel decking, when it wanted to get to the reactor core. It needed to break it. That's because the protomolecule needs dna to attack directly. Protein based activity may have been possible (high amounts of energy available to directly attack a metal) but would've been too slow or cost it too much energy... so smashing was the preferred option.
This is important because this helps get to why it may have been convinced to go to Venus rather than Earth. Venus has a lot of energy available in the infrared part of the spectrum; far more than is available on Earth. And the atmosphere of Venus is a significantly better source of usable atoms: CO2 is the major component of Venus's atmosphere and it's far more amenable to organic chemistry via protein action than the largely nitrogen atmosphere of Earth.
I really hope you continued watching.
The Buddhists say that you aren't your thoughts and opinions and memories that you aren't the noise in your head. That you are the "space" that allows consciousness to arise made self awear and that's what the Being is. This is why meditation is so crucial. All long term mediators start to see that they have thoughts but they aren't that noise. Oh by the way to the extent that you mistake your thoughts for yourself that's your ego.
Not sure if the protomolecule warrior walking on the surface of the Roci was evidence of it manipulating gravity or magnetism. It may just be exhibiting some kind of adhesion properties that it can manipulate at will. I think that's supported by the fact that we see it adhering to all kinds of surfaces on the Anubis and Eros.
I think the books specify that in the case of the Calibans, they're able to magnetise their feet. I have no doubt that the protomolecule could do the same thing and larger with gravity, though :P
It could also have been that when they animated the scene in the computer they just forgot the gravity was supposed to be off and animated it like a regular creature walking around.
maybe the alien race that made the protomolecule is not carbon based, and havn't take into account the reaction of the protomolecule when mixed with carbon based organism... maybe the protomolecule was just a probe, like our voyager or pioneer probes... maybe someday when the voyager reaches a distant solar system the depleted nuclear battery it carries does really shitty stuff to some silicon based organisms or something
no, because Voyager is just a tin can. To any element
the radioisotope generator/nuclear battery isnt
Tin may be poisonous to some alien lifeforms as well.! ..?
Season 3 and the books. It's more of a "technology to assemble interstellar infrastructure"
I feel like the RTG will be inert by the time it happens to hit a solar system.
If you think about it the protomolecule is similar to a human made automated Tree Cutter Machine that can also manufacture things with the trees it cuts down. It's automatic, kills living thing to use as building material and it builds stuff with that formally living thing. In the case of the PM we're the trees and it's not building Ikea Chairs but a Ring Gate.
#MyTheory : the reason the Protomolecule does not appear to be conscious is that its creators in-universe decided that they didn't want it to. They deliberately set its parameters so that it would only accomplish the goal they designed it accomplish, but let it have enough flexibility to creatively solve problems in pursuit of that singular goal.
Blu-goo. It's a self replicating nano machine of the highest order.
Thats a nice idea. Assuming reality has an internal clockwork the molecule would use that as most of its function and only apply a directional information atop of it. and maybe a gateway to directly infulence matter.
SPOILER
I have the advantage of seeing the next season by this time. So we now know that it has access to a vast library of technological knowledge.
At this point, I think that the protomolecule is capable of communicating with other PM systems in other solar systems. Or at least works as a receiver in it's early stages, to receive instructions. You arguments about the PM having a multi-dimensional structure is an idea that also occurred to me. And it certainly explains the fascination the scientists have in the 'molecule', which may not actually be a molecule in the sense that we understand them.
reminds me of husks..alot of this show reminds me of mass effect 1, 2 and 3, easily my favorite game franchise
The way the miller construct is written in Cibola Burn, I'd say the books DO argue for conscience to be an emergent property. The protomolecule has been written to kill programs before they become conscient, which is why a super smart AI like the protomolecule doesn't seem self-aware, but the Investigator (Miller) program it created to find out what happened starts to become more and more self-aware. It seems clear to me that if it had not destroyed itself, it'd have evolved into a fully self-aware AI.
#MyTherory: This is just from what I can understand of the protomolecule. Is that it was created by a more higher advanced culture or species and sent out into the galaxy to find suitable environments to kick start life on certain planets. For this to happen it sounds like it has some form of base code the adapts to the cellular life on developing worlds or it adapts simple cellular life to kickstart life as kind of a petri dish to see how life would evolve. Because Holden saw multiple different worlds when he interfaced with the ring itself. Some of the worlds looked to have been destroyed when they got to a certain evolutionary of life. When the protomolecule was by humans they started to mess with it to see what it was and how to manipulate it for their needs as either a weapon, possibly. Or to help humans to adapt better to living in space without all of the negative side effects of micro/zero gravity, vacuum and cosmic radiation on the human body. I hope that my explanation gives others food for thought on what the protomolecule might be.
It seems unlikely that the 'bulk' of pheobe was initially protomolocule. It's obviously capable of self-replicating by hijacking existing organic materials, and absorbing some forms of radiation. As such it would not need to start with a large mass if it expected to land on a life-bearing world and 'hijack' the local organic material to perform its function. Indeed, the show seems to suggest that a very small amount of protomolocule (a few kilos at most) was sufficient to activate the phenomena on Eros, given a sufficient input of radiation and biomass.
Assuming the race that sent it was operating on some kind of realistic budget, its likely that they would have sent a fairly small amount of proto-molocule in some kind of well-shielded delivery mechanism, completely inactivated during its presumably very long voyage.
This ship or pod is presumably what was captured by Saturn 2 billion years ago - where it probably formed the gravitational seed mass for local dust and rock to form a significant planetoid in orbit around Saturn. As such I'd expect that the vast bulk of Pheobe is made of local material that has accreted around the core delivery system. Had it been a large, complex mass of protomolocule at that stage, it would surely have activated on its approach to the solar system, and easily avoided the gravitational trap of saturn to reach its target, as we see Eros maneuvering at accelerations that would trivialize such a maneuver.
Based on virology (and simpler makes more sense for VN probes), you don't need a lot of a virus to start the replication process. You need 'enough' to beat the immune system - and LOTS of the host. So you are right on target.
Hey, almost at 1000! Wish more of my friends were Expanse fans but I never forget to mention your channel to the ones who are .) #protomolecule !
I know, I'm excited as well. Thanks for watching.
Oh, it's just the Reapers. They accidentally had one of their ships blow up and a piece of it flew off for a few billion years before they could find it.
An interesting idea, but the scary part is that the Protomolecule Builders would wipe the floor with the Reapers. I truly don’t say this to be dismissive. I’m well versed in Mass Effect lore and love the series with my whole heart. But the Builders are just on a whole different level.
#Mytheory: in my mind (i didnt read the books) the #protomolecule is like a hive of nanomachines that are molecular in nature (just like dna) and it builds up itself from the things it interacts with. First with the humans it tries to immitate the cells and obviously fiddles with the brain but first instinctively as we can see on phoebie and later on eros it is much more developped as it has a much bigger hive and had more time to learn. It is logical to imagine that if it can communicate with itself(like we have seen with the lobotomized scientist) it evolves linearly even if parts of it is destroyed, and by the end in venus as it takes the ship apart it becomes even more controlled and intelligent as it accumulates more mass and energy. I disagree that it doesnt have contousness but I feel it is one entity and all of the pieces are just organs that are not required amd have limited intelligence like an ant in a hive dispendable but important.
I think its going to lead into Cosmic horror. Giant bio mass consuming life for more materials. I think when it becomes fully aware it will become like other depictions of planet/life consuming entities in lovecraft and other works (Check Dead Space 3)
The PM sounds to me like The Flood from the Halo universe but with an AI component attached.
Half Flood, half Reapers. This series clearly was inspired by sci-fi videogames from the late 90s to mid-2000s.
@@Yora21 the mid 2000s haven't arrived yet (mid 2000s=2500)
@@caterinabisceglie8390 Watch out! We got a smartass over here.
@@Yora21 no need to be a dick, he was just pointing out.
Interestingly enough, the Protomolecule concept reminds me of the Beast from the Homeworld Catalclysm RTS game. It's an extrterrestrial biomechanical virus that subverts technology, absorbs them and control ships, people, etc.
It seems to me that you don't address the collective nervous super system linking the protomolecule from various locations - I know, very woo-woo kind of intelligence on display, but what category of physics/uplink would this fall under?
#MyTheory#Protomolecule The protomolecule is some sort of metaphor for weapons that civilization can create to destroy itself without ruining the rest of the series. It is a metaphor for nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, or even drugs that can be used to control other humans such as L.S.D, date rape, & cetera.
What I think is, that its super realistic and appears very close to the real thing... Regarding the thruster driven space crafts, I thind theese appear very exiting looking when they move and shoot around. How ever I think that the next series might introduce a revolution of a new propulsion in means of the Skunk Works1950-80+ FLT Flux Liner on electrogravitics instead of main fuel thrusters
This is a very late comment. The Expanse is one of my top two shows. And of my favs of all time. Great science fiction. You did an interesting analysis of the Protomolecule but didn't add the metaphysical or spiritual ingredient.
The thing that make "The Expanse" a great show is not the theoretical science, it's the people. They become our friends through the seasons. We admire their courage, loyalty, love for each other and their worlds and their wonder of the Universe. The Protomolecule also respects this at some level. It's why it made Julie Mao the "Queen" of Eros. It KNEW at some level that she was a person of high integrity. The same applies to Miller and then Miller's ability to communicate with the equally courageous and honorable Holden.
Why? I believe it was not just a sophisticated message from a far distant and ancient system but also a technology to enable people in OUR system to fight and destroy the Evil that destroyed them. But only certain people have the power to unleash the full power of the PM. Think Arthur and the sword he pulled from the stone.
Alright, i'm taking that "*on* the expanse" to mean that this only draws from the television series. If there are any spoilers from the books...
Good channel from what i've seen previous. Thanks.
It's spooky space-goo. What more do you need to know?
#MyTheory
Why it used ladder - the scientists who made the hybrid obviously somehow tried to reprogram it to view everything like a hostile organism. Also they tried to limit its "intelligence", or erased some of its core functions rendering it primitive. I can imagine that by doing this and not completely knowing the structure or "programming" of the protomolecule, they made it to malfunction randomly, make inconsistent decisions. That is why we sometimes see it using ladder even if it does not have to, that is why we see it being extremely dangerous and killing everything it sees and then stopping and studying its "targets" - maybe that is the remnant of the original programming taking over - in order to adapt to new conditions, substances and new life, it has to study it first. That is why it decomposed Arboghast, why the black boy literally decomposed the nurse.
Now I know that there was no reason in decomposing the nurse, the protomolecule already had to have all information it needed, but in my opinion this is the next symptom of tinkering with theo original programming. It tried to collect data it already had. Maybe that is exactly how they tried to reprogram it. They just embedded the instruction "study by decomposition" in infinite cycle(cycle without ending condition or an ending condition that is never met) - so it never stops collecting data by decomposing all people it sees and if its "targets" try to defend themselves, it sees that as an attack and in response defends itself. This would be an easy and "human" solution to a problem that is not really thoroughly understood. The company wanted to see results, we know that the protomolecule is extremely complex to understand and even the scientists who worked on it do not understand it, but it might be easy to identify or rather guess what a part of a code does and slap a while(1==1) cycle in front of it.
Why it glows blue - the second law of thermodynamics tells us, that nothing is perfectly efficient and there are always losses. It may be that some process it executes releases photons of blue light instead of "ordinary" heat. We can see this in nuclear reactors. In fact, exactly this effect. It is called Cherekov radiation. When highly energetic particles in a nuclear reactor slow down due to a presence of a medium - the water in a nuclear reactor, they don't heat up the water, they actually release photons that even naked eye can see as a blue light. It is quite spectacular sight to stare down an operational nuclear reactor and see the core lit up in a cloud of blue mist. Yeah, you can do it, no you won't die, but yes, you will get a dose of radiation worth of a few CTs(also depends if you are looking through a glass or just a hole, in our research nuclear reactor/or rather neutron generator, we just need it for neutron generation, it does not really power things/ we have a reactor cyllinder that has just a big hole on the top, so we just power it down a little and open the hatch if we want to show off for visitors :) ).
Why it needs organic material - quite simple. Because organic material is great for manufacture of complex materials. The most useful, interesting, strong, futuristic materials we now have are composites from polymers and some simple crystaline structure material - like carbon fiber or fiberglass. But without the polymeric compound that bonds the fiberglass or carbon fiber together, the material would not hold its shape, it would be a fabric. I think that the protomolecule construct is some kind of composite material. It uses some of the anorganic materials, that is why it can work on Venus where there is no life, and bonds it with complex structures made out of complex chemical substances of organic matter. Because it is much, much easier and takes much, much less energy to just ingest a protein than to actually create it from scratch/or elementary atoms common in space. It may not need exactly proteins to work but it maybe just repurposes organic matter by changing a few atoms in an insanely complex molecule.
If you think about it, it makes sense. Protomolecule is exactly this. It is an insanely complex machine on molecular level. The only thing that we know and is this insanely complex are actually organic compounds in our body. This maybe tells us that its creators might not be advanced enough to create life or at least some kind of organic life-level of complexity and they can only repurpose this complex compounds. Or it might suggest that life can not be created by any civilization however advanced it might be.
So not only consciousness in the expanse universe
If you know the books, it's purpose is clear
science books?
What's the purpose? I never read the books but the show was awesome.
@@DigitalDNA *Spoiler* The asteroid containing Protomolecule
was launched towards Earth by the gate builders 2 billion years ago from a nearby star system. Its purpose was to crash into Earth and hijack early life and repurpose it to build the ring gate and possibly make Earth ready for colonisation of the gate builders who would come through the gate. Only the asteroid ended up getting caught by Saturn and it became the moon phoebe.
The protomolecule on Phoebe was then discovered by humans who wanted to see what it's true purpose was, they just needed enough biological material to do it. So they infected Eros. The protomolecule wasn't expecting to come into contact with advanced life so it adapted and used Julie Mao as a pilot to fly Eros into Earth to complete its mission. She thought she was flying the razorback in a race, but she was convinced to crash into Venus instead by Miller. Once there it learned to use the human biological material it had into building the gate. "The work must continue"
The gate was built and launched, but when it connected back to the network it found the gate builders were all gone. The protomolecule is somewhat intelligent and has programmed need to 'check-in' with its creators. So it has repurposed the absorbed memories and consciousness of Detective Miller to solve the mystery of what happened to the gate builders. Because Miller liked Holden, the protomolecule is "transmitting" a version of Miller directly to Holden's brain, allowing the protomolecule to see everything Holden can. That's why only he can see Miller and why Miller wanted Holden to connect with the gate builder archive in the middle of the ring space.
The vision Holden has when he sticks his hand in the machine is what happened to the gate builders. Something started wiping them out system by system. In an attempt to fix the issue, the base in ringspace started blowing up "Infected" star systems by causing the stars to go supernova. Eventually, it shut down the gate system altogether and the builders succumb to their fate at the hands of an unknown enemy. Holden's arrival convinced the base that the gate network could be reopened - And that is where we are at the end of season 3.
@@DidntKnowWhatToPut1 thank you for that very comprehensive summary.
@@DidntKnowWhatToPut1 Thank you very much. All that without really spoiling anything beyond S3 now that I've seen S4.
In the show they said it acts differently everytime they experimented it was learning they needed more mass so they fed it eros station initially it was only consuming biomass after venus it learn to consume other materials
It seems to be a way for aliens to colonize though out the galaxy. It also appears to work like a fungus to consume or change biomaterial to conform to its own matrix or as an example DNA if humanity were attempting to colonize over vast distances in space.
#mytheory:
Obviously I'm a little late to the party seeing as this video is two months old, but here's my idea.
We know that molecule arrived 2 billion years ago, that it's alien in origin, and that it can assimilate basically anything and turn it into matter/energy.
Now, two billion years is an enormous amount of time, and seeing as how a race sufficiently advanced enough to have created the molecule probably has space flight, I doubt seriously that it is an ark kind of thing. Terraforming makes slightly more sense because the molecule basically turns everything around it into an alien environment that seems to be able to survive anywhere and survive almost anything short of a complete purge via incineration. (Obviously this is based on what we've seen so far.)
So the molecule would make a perfect terraforming device in that it can survive damn near anything and is able to turn whatever's around it into an alien environment. It's also extremely fast spreading meaning that terraforming could be done in a year or two. That being said it didn't work and instead landed on a moon where it went dormant. Why did it go dormant? Personally I think it has to have a jump start using other organic material. Assuming that it is a terraforming device I would assume it would be aimed at earth where there was enough microscopic life to 'jump start' the process. Of course the molecule missed which means that it failed. Assuming that whoever created it was sufficiently advanced they would have been able to pop over to earth and drop it on the planet then wait around until everything was ready for them to live on.
Now on to my, probably less compelling theory, which is that the molecule is a fuel source.
So you're an alien cruising around the galaxy doing alien stuff like exploring new planets, probing hillybillies, and getting up to Nijinsky like the Enterprise crew did.
Unfortunately your ship needs power of some kind. You need to be able to refill it easily without having to go back to colonized worlds every couple of days, which means that you need a source that is almost never ending.
Fusion is a great option, but I'm sure there are limits to it that I don't know, so your scientists look around and come up with an amazing idea. They build a molecule that, when introduced to organic and to a lesser extent inorganic matter, reproduces quickly with the byproduct of also creating energy at the same time. You now have an energy source that you can feed with garbage, waste material and plants, which will continue to produce energy while you fly around.
Obviously this is assuming that the aliens have a way to harness the energy produced, but still I think it's a decent argument. How the molecule ended up on a moon in our system is of course open to conjecture, maybe a fuel leak, maybe it's just a byproduct of the fuel, who knows. All I'm saying is that it's something to consider.
It reaches out ,it reaches out ,it reaches out ,it reaches out . 113 times per second it reaches out !
If you have read the books, could you do a separate spoiler video of your theories pertaining to the novel version?
I may, but I've mostly been focusing on media and we're not sure yet how closely future seasons will follow the books. That may make a good show though so I'll hold onto that idea. Thanks for watching.
#protomolecule, I think the protomolecule is a form of photonic life and technology mixed together made from ancient particles such as light. These photons would have been deconstructed in a lab and assembled as matter version of the light we know with all sorts of weird properties and strengths due. To the particles small sizes
Why do you think Phoebe consist mostly of protomolecules? If that were the case, wouldn't it have been discovered this century already, or whenever the moon is investigated a ltitle more closely? I always assumed that there was just a little bit of protomolecule smeared onto it, maybe with some dust sprinkled over it and then sent to the solar system.
I didn't get why you think the protomolecule proves that consciousness is inherent to matter, rather than emergent in the Expanse universe. Could you elaborate on that? Maybe protomolecular algorithms caused Julie to regain consciousness.
In which episode did they mention that it must have been around for 2 billion years?
#MyTheory: It was meant to be found by spacefaring life from Earth, so that it would be "uplifted" to the level of development of whoever created it and join their interstellar community, kinda like the monoliths in the Space Odyssey series.
It would have been nicer if Eros' sudden movement toward Earth wasn't due to some reactionless drive ability that the protomolecule has, but if it started emitting radiation in the opposite reaction, thus becoming a photon rocket of sorts.
It's the same thing that comes out after I eat a senior mucho grande double pepper 8 layer burrito.
#mytheory#protomolecule. I think the way the protomolecule learns is by copying structures of things like tissue (like the brains of its victims) and very hard materials based on some of its properties like the gates, and in the case of Eros, basically doing what Julie is dreaming.
By the way, I was not expecting you to do an episode on the protomolecule.
(basing this only on the show, didn't read the books)
I don't see how The Expanse disprove the consciousness as something emergent in the series, the fact that the protomolecule is not conscious can just be the case of it not being complex enough. #MyTheory is that it reaches some basic animal-like level of consciousness (as in, having an idea of "self" ) when it's human shaped, and has less capabilities when it's just a sort of "spore". As bigger\more complex the system gets, it reaches a point where it gains consciousness and from there it kind of explodes exponentially in intelligence too, like reaching a tipping point, almost like the matter change of state (fluid\airborne\solid).
It's interesting the case of Eros: where the protomolecule itself was not conscious but was merging with a consciousness (Julie Mao), thus maybe on the verge of gaining consciousness by first acting as a parasite.
Maybe the whole goal of the protomolecule could be to find a way to gain consciousness in the end as it could be the best way to spread itself to other solar systems in a sort of reproduction cycle: get as complex as possible in the current system (the by product of that is gaining consciousness), then build a way to send basic protomolecule outside the system, in a million\billion years voyage, then repeat
Read the books. They are awesome. :)
I'm in the middle of the first one!
well the protomolekule itself is not coscious but parts of it are
The protomolocule shows no signs of attaining consciousness, even when it achieves incredibly high levels of complexity - arguably orders of magnitude beyond that needed to achieve human intelligence - such as on Eros, or in the ring Core station. This pretty much suggests that in the universe of the Expanse, either consciousness simply is not an emergent property of complexity/intelligence, or the protomolocule has been explicitly programmed to inhibit the development of consciousness, no matter what level of complexity it achieves.
The idea that consciousness is not emergent in that universe is further reinforced by the fact that the proto-molocule is seen to highjack and make use of entities and their consciousness WITHOUT exhibiting those properties itself - treating it as simply another useful phenomenon, such as magnetism or inertia. Thus the strong indication that it is an INHERENT property that it is examining and making use of, much as it uses those other ones, even though it never develops into an individual consciousness itself.
Imagine if Nanotech surpassed atoms - that's protomolecule. It's all a tool and it operates beyond the human known limits of nature - it can change nature.
Here's another thought - when describing the protomolecule soldier as still treating things as though there was gravity, perhaps because it was built from a kid - a belter kid born and raised on Ganymede - is it possible that it limited itself on its own understanding of gravity - since he had never experienced free fall, could the soldier understand it enough to react to it or is there some subjective mechanism to it perhaps?
I know that it still obeys thermodynamics but even so protomolecule tech conducts energy remarkably well and sometimes outputs are exponential. The ring station at the centre of the ring space is apparently inertia free, so much that even placing rail guns on it don't require any thrust to compensate for recoil - the energy gets dumped in the form of light - and in a later book after an incidental attack on the ring station, apparently huge gamma Ray bursts came out of the rings far enough to cook a few ship crews to death - and surrounding the rings, virtual particle activity shot up "like space was boiling" - so I hope there will be some big reveal as to how it all recall works, perhaps its ability to retain the consciousnesses of integrated organisms (maybe more like a shadow of the real thing) is an example of how it works on levels that our perceptions of consciousness and energy vs matter don't apply to it in the ways we're used to. Or rather that's just #mytheory on the matter.
I feel like this Sci fi is almost on par with the classical epics like Solaris.
Is this specifically about the show or dose it include the books too?
#mytheory protomolecule purpose seemed to be to build the gate so in a sense it must be a self assembly system whose activation trigger must be species advanced enough to be connected to the original probe creators.The system would only come into life after sufficient intelligent bio matter came into its contact as a way to assess the stage of life there.such probes could have been sent out to promising solar systems around the world and activate once the life there became intelligent enough to make contact.its might also require power in terms of heavy radiation that only intelligent life could build so another way of ensuring a intelligent life species has developed
kinda similar to how in Knights of Sidonia the gauna only came after being attracted by humanity developed heigus technology
Hi do you know when the next movie coming out Thanks
Is it an extraterrestrial Hard drive? collect and save data / knowledge?
#mytheory read the books especially Abbadons Gate and Cibola Burn if you want more info on the protomolucule
I think the protomolecule warriors have some kind of mechanism in their feet not unlike geckos, that bond at the atomic level to the surfaces they're walking on.
looks like the Protomolecule is like this universe concept of Halo verse [ The Flood]. As for why, it seems they'll follow the books...
Jamahran
alien von numan probe.
#mytheory The proto-molecule is not necessarily a particle, but rather a disturbance in four dimensional space-time, resulting from some higher-dimensional event. So, similar to how particles in our dimension are created essentially as excitations in their respective fields, the proto-molecule was formed the same way, except its specific field lies in an upper dimension as opposed to four dimensional universe. Therefore, the molecule has the ability to warp space at the three-dimensional level and essentially break our current understanding of physics. Maybe the alien race that sent it had learned to harness material from other dimensions?? (I don't know, I'm going out on a limb here). So, because the proto-molecule was meant to land on Earth 2 billion years ago, it's possible that the molecule was a sort of colonization device. The proto-molecule was sent to Sol with instructions to build an extra-dimensional portal on Earth so that the alien civilization could colonize the planet. That's why the pm can replicate itself in organic and non-organic matter and why it seems to expand on its own, as well as manipulate the fabric of space. Kind of a weird theory, I know, but it sort of makes a bit of sense, I think
Its an extraterrestrial von Neuman probe.
Looks like a Husk. So the Reapers are in this show, that's kind of cool, I guess?
I don't know if I'd compare the protomolecule to the white walkers. The protomolecule really doesn't care about humans and answers to another force that doesn't know or care about them either. Humans just happen to get in the way sometimes.
Good point. i wasn't comparing the protomolecule itself as much as the way people are acting in the show. In both shows they are focused on these petty political in-fights while the real threat is looming in the distance. Thanks for watching and for the comment.
my theory, to how consious-intelligenz like ours works is that our biochemical brain constantly makes up for little mistakes that accure regularly and that give us basicaly our creativity without these imperfections, so in my theory every unconventional idea is a result of them.
Alternatively. Read the books. The story in bookform is a loooooong way ahead of where the series is. Spoiler alert: The protomolecule is < CENSORED! >
I think the proto-molecule is conflicted inside organic life. It doesn't want to infect organ life. It's a machine AI that's more concerned about conservation of energy rather than the conservation of entropy like organic life does. It is a construct made by synthetic life itself to better it's own constructs and reduce their limitations just like organic life struggles to reduce it's entropy. One reason why it's constantly in search of powered devices. If it only wanted ionic radiation it would get plenty close enough to the stars. Reason why I think the research ship sent on Venus only disintegrated as individual parts like an exploded view to better understand technology humans built.
The protomolecule is just a repackaged variation of something another writer invented almost a century ago. It’s just a shaggoth from the Cthulhu Mythos of HP Lovecraft.
It’s an alien multi tool servitor race (slave species). It’ll create cities or become a weapon... whatever is needed.
Regarding consciousness, the Protomolecule proved itself quite capable of hijacking, and to some degree replicating consciousness - but I have to agree that it showed little or no sign of consciousness itself, and seemed to simply treat the phenomena as yet another tool, like fusion or inertial control. In fact, given the events in the books, I'm led to wonder if the protomolecule *builders* were even conscious in the manner that humans are accustomed to. We are given almost no hints about this, as our viewpoint characters are never given the opportunity to explore the morphology of the ruins of that civilization - so the builders could be almost anything.
I personally suspect that the builders didn't share the same kind of consciousness that humans possess. Perhaps they were an intelligent insectoid colony species without a sense of self, or something similarly alien - the robotic servitors that the protomolecule creates at a few points hint that their builders may have preferred some kind of insectoid, mantis-like morphology at any rate.
It's also possible that the builders possessed and understood consciousness, but *intentionally* withheld the direct capacity for it from the protomolecule - an entirely understandable precaution if one would prefer to retain complete control over your AI nano-machine that probably has the ability to deconstruct entire planets should it really feel like it. Kinda got to keep that on a short leash.
We actually have a few textual clues as to what kind(s) of intelligences the builders were. In chapter 25 of Abbadon's Gate, Holden's 'peek' into the goings-on of their civilization around the time that things started going south for them is rather informative. Holden notes 'voices, millions, billions, lifted in chorus...'. Note the use of the plural here. In the next paragraph we read 'a few voices... went silent, and if the great chorus of his being was lessened by them, it wasn't perceptible.' So, Holden is aware of a vast number of distinct, discrete intelligences (he thinks of them as 'voices') but he's experiencing some version of the ending of the Builder civilization as an overwhelmingly sensory narrative structure through the prism of his consciousness. For me, this suggests the Builders were not a hive mind, and least not in the traditional sense, but that part of the fundamental fabric of their society was a sharing of thoughts, personalities, modes of being facilitated through some technology in some way related to the that which allows the Ring Network to communicate instantaneously and non-locally.
Also, remember that Holden must touch the plate nub in the center of the station to 'reset' certain functions of the Network and allows the Investigator to begin its work. In the same chapter, the Miller-construct (which is not a thing in and of itself, but rather an avatar used by the Investigator neurally tailored to Holden so as to most fruitfully interact with him) cops to needing Holden to touch the plate nub not because Holden is in anyway 'special', at least not for the purposes of the program at that moment, but because he simply existed on the material level. The Miller-construct says 'You're actually here. In the substrate. In some quarters, that's kind of a big deal.' I think this is a fairly strong clue that the Builders considered material reality the 'true' reality, or at least the 'most significant' because of its finality. It takes an authority high up to initiate the processes the Investigator has interest in *from afar*, but any gorilla on the street can touch the plate nub and kick the dominos. This means that when the shit hits the fan, even incredibly advanced and resource-rich 'disembodied' intelligences depended on real, concrete beings walking/swimming/floating around.
Lastly, from the same chapter, Holden experiences the consensus of decision making when he is shown the Builders deciding to quarantine the surviving systems away from each other. '... and a million farewells, one to the other' it reads. Strangely, when noting that the gates were shut down amid a sense of hope rather than fear, the text reads 'The vast mind restored.' This is singular, but I think is used poetically, rather than indicating the Builders really were (or saw themselves as) one mind.
Given this information, I'm led to believe that the Builders could be anything animal-like as organisms, including insectoid, so long as these insectoids were not eusocial or had evolved beyond it. I think eusocial organisms would not experience the rich breadth of conscious diversity Holden was privy to when he was touching that plate nub.
The Protomolecule is pretty much the Flood of the Expanse universe
CryLittleSister It’s a biomechanical utility device used by the aliens as a means for creating new rings and opening up new paths for colonization. As far as we know, the reason the aliens are gone is because the Protomolecule failed to produce a gate in the Sol system, resulting in critical shortages and eventual war.
REMEMBER THE CANT
I cant😂
Just my own ideas, I think the molecule was being sent to mars. Every planet beyond the rings are habitable. I think the protomolucule was sent here because earthand mars were detected, but the builders knew mars would become uninhabitable, but not earth. The protomolucule would do is thing on mars, and allow humanity to evolve to one day make contact.I also think that ours was the last sent out.
#my theory:a Protomolecule can do a write of dense genetic material, based of living computer. possible to evolve it's self over time?
Throwing this into the consciousness discussion...
Google 'robots learn to lie to each other'. It should lead to a 2009 experiment on evolving algorithms. The gist is robots learning to not announce when they found food, the opposite of the original programming.
It may have been debunked, so let me know. It not, it may point to a future more like D4veocracy than Terminator, but it gives us something to think about.
Protomolecule is just a fancy alien fireflies.
Protomolecule# How did the ship burn-up the alien and not go forward,
what kinda temp are we talking about? thanks for doing the protomolecule
Presumably that is plasma, which is so hot it's a whole separate state of matter. They could have fired the engines at very low acceleration and still burned the creature up so I don't really have a problem with that. Thanks for watching!
They could have easily just fired the reverse manouvering thrusters while firing the drive cone, so there was no acceleration.
Maybe the ancient ring builders were destroyed by their own protomolecule technology, or else assimilated by it. If they were not biological as we understand life here, then the merging of protomolecule technology with human consciousness and biological coding could be something totally new. (I have not seen the series, only just discovering material about it recently).
There is a very good sci-fi book called Blindsight that goes into the idea of consciousness vs. intelligence. Without giving too much away, it theorizes consciousness is a glitch, and that raw horsepower intelligence is better, in the end.
BuckeyeStorms "Better" is a value-based term. Raw intelligence without value-based understandings of experience (eg Better, worse, useful, dangerous/avoid) is kind of empty, devoid of reference to potentiality, and an incomplete form of intelligence because it lacks "consciousness".
#MyTheory has always been that it is not biological in nature but a nanotechnology patterned on biology or at least similar principles such as employing an advanced DNA-like information storage and duplication.
More people should like this show.
how its AI runs: structural batteries.
we are developing batteries which keep the voltage within the atomic structure of the material itself.
that's how protomol makes "neural nets" within the material itself, and that's what drives it.
the "people being heard in the signal" is just atrifacrs of the structures that protomol kept because most of them are useful in some way.
if it encountered single-cell organisms, as intended, it wuold rebuild almost everything.
but it didn't, it encoutered self-aware beings, meaning it could skip over several abstraction steps in its programming, by keeping parts of he cognitive structure of the people it infected.
so that's what it did, naturally.
anything beyond this would still be speculation.
I would like to believe consciousness is not emergent. It is inherent. We cannot create consciousness, we can just be conscious.
Well I am not a scientist, but I have a scientific mind... I have seen the first season... I thought it wasn't too bad... As far as the protomolecule, I believe it's an organic life force that recognizes basic compounds like carbon, iron & reacts to electricity. Even the basics animals and lower life forms have electricity. We know from our own instincts and instincts from other animals of our own world we will consume food of any sort of it will insure our survival... Mayby this protomolecule recognizes something thing it can use as food and or insures it's survival in addition to recognizing an intelligence to help with its evolution...
#protomolecule, I think it is some form of alternative life form. The name itself gives it away I think. "Proto" meaning ancient. What is more ancient then photons itself. Could they be deconstructed into particles of matter that are all fundamental particles as well as the light they came from. If so they would be tiny and have strange properties like quantum gravity. So in essence if you break down photons so there energy is outputted as matter particles of wich there is four; matter, antimatter, negative mass matter, negative mass antimatter; you can make photonic matter and photonic life that can use radiation as a fuel source since its "molecules" are closer together and more tightly bonded. This can then be made to destroy stars Aswell using the stars own energy as seen in season three. They can infect humans and use our matter to make more of themselves too. Make rings to make wormholes etc. Hence the name "proto-molecule" and it would be very very versatile. I Think as a result this concept is more real then anyone else realizes. And photons are not positive energy with neutral mass, they are neutral in all ways and the generation of protomolecule would require photons to be stimulated to form into either positive or its negative matter half wich can then have its charges altered by hitting it with another photon of the same frequency or maybe higher. The photon may even split into two right away who knows, but the implications are big. It would be nice to see if we could make protomolecule in real life using the process I stated just now, and figure out how to do it. It would require reanalysing what and how a photons wave structure is like because right now I don't think we know as much as we think about them.
Proto means prior, not ancient.
I figured the protomolecule was was both synthetic and gestalt.
SPOILER!!! ......Apperently it is building a Stargate on Venus which will connect the Solarsystem to a Gatenetwork and it is a programmed Matter and only got half sentient because it absorbed a lot of Humans. Which also Dresden referred to, then Miller shot him ;).
garfield2406 Yup! The protomolecule is basically semi conscious alien tech.
"Disassembly reveals useful pathways."
#Mytheory Maybe protomolecules did end up on Earth and has helped life evolve into what it is in this series? Maybe it even triggered abiogenesis?
It is quite a clever concept if you are a civilization trying to expand throughout the galaxy. You just send loads of this stuff out everywhere programmed to use organic life it finds to use to build gates. You would only be interested in planet that could sustained life.
So send this stuff out it finds a planet which can support life you get a gate, it doesn't find life no big loss, clever.
OK so my #mytheory, which I am only posting here is this.....I think that the protomolecule was an alien "transported" teraforming/ panspermia substance to colonize another solar system or even multiple solar systems in other star systems and or galaxies! After given the degree of how vast space actually is, imagine if you were a dying alien race that had the technology to literally "pepper" the universe with a reanimating "mold" or "model" of your own image of "life" and wanted to give that life a "second chance" it would almost be easier to send out a "ship" with all the stuff required to both "teraform" and populate your new world as a molecule then it would be to send a living "subject" (i.e. a person) to another star system! Even now scientist have considered a way to send humans to another solar system would be by mixing all the genetic material into a "soup" of sorts and then launch the ship towards a new star system at a planet that may support life!!! So while it is still basically "theory" there are some roots in actually science to this same idea!!! Because even now a person just can't live long enough to fly to the nearest star at the speeds we can achieve and we haven't figured out how to make a space craft move any faster either!!! Besides too FTL (Faster than light) travel would kill a person, and we can't figure out how to create a "warp drive" yet, or even put people in hibernation either!!! So it would only make sense with our technology now that if the "soup" theory holds up we'd be able to send human DNA and genetic material into space and hope that in a million or billion years it lands on its target planet and "becomes" human beings through evolution as it did on this planet!
There are other factors to consider why and how this could be done and had a alien civilization figured out how to "accelerate the process" of both teraforming, and combining their DNA into a similar or new species (which could be why in The Expanse, it reanimated Julie Mao) then you could spread our "life form" into other areas of the universe much faster and cheaper as well!!! And again this is based in science to some degree as well!
Sure the new life form wouldn't be an "exact copy" of what you once started out with.....but if given the right parameters you could have a "life form" that was pretty close to your own if you could use alien DNA that was close or similar to your own to give your new "life" a nudge in the direction you want it to go!! But you would have to know genetics on a far more advanced level and have an amazing grasp of other sciences as well, including space travel, and planetary composition and so on! Which is why too I think the protomolecule can also teraform and planet because from what I have seen in the show of what is happening to Venus, it is "altering" the planet in a way to give birth to a new life form as well, and give it a home too!
So THAT is my theory....and with my understanding of science it would make perfect sense that the protomolecule was "developed" to transport an alien life form to the stars in the only way they knew how!!! Though there were not aware that millions or billions of years later humans would even exist to alter those plans! And perhaps getting trapped in Saturn's orbit was a small miscalculation to their plans as well! Lastly perhaps the protomolecule was a part of the processes that was supposed to "happen" to us, and was just never "delivered" to the earth as well.....which is really mind blowing to think about, becuase maybe the protomolecule was "supposed to be" part of our DNA all along.....but that part of the "soup"just never made it to earth.....so we lost part of our "DNA" because it was on a different "ship" that was trapped in Saturn's orbit!! It gives you something to think about, when you dig into the "what ifs" of the show.....and I haven't read the books......but that is my only other logical conclusion to it all!!! And for me not much of a leap either!!! Heck I love science, even though I was just a high school graduate without any college training what so ever!!!!!
#MyTheory I haven't read past Nemesis Games so I have some catching up to do, but it seems to me that the aliens had a very forward thinking self rescue plan.. If I remember correctly they were taken out by some other alien species that I have yet to see.
Conscious is not an emergent?! What is?
Well, it's nearly 2020 and now we know what it is and what it does.
If anyone is familiar with the game Destiny and the a.i. SIVA you see how similar it is to the protomolocule i thought this was informative and interesting
Nano-tech in the way Sci-fi refers to it, will never exist. The tech is way to complicated.
You're talking about something that is microscopic size that has the ability to store massive amounts of information AND self-replicate at an astounding speed.
On a sidenote: Julie has a rockin' body.