Just to clarify, some of the concept art predates the final model and shows more torpedo tubes on the nose and fewer on the aft. The final count as seen on the model itself is 6 Forward, 4 Aft.
could also be variant's in the design like one could be more fitted out to have more torpedo launchers but no cargo space for as many light warships for the excess ammo those additional tubes would need
Just started season 2. When it is explained that the Martians were basically forced to choose between funding terraforming or funding the navy, the sheer value and importance of these ships is really driven home. The Martians literally have an emotional investment in them, because they sacrificed so much for their construction.
That will bite them in the ass, remember. Pakistan once said that they will eat grass but research their own nuclear weapons. Look where that got them to.
Note that ships in this universe don't have artificial gravity, and instead have more realistic thrust gravity. So they should be viewed on the vertical, not the horizontal. They're basically sky scrapers in space.
In the anime Sidonia no kishi, the ship Sidonia was the most beautiful ship/colony design, very realístic, except for the fact Is full of Lolis. But Is a good show. Another mecha show was Heavy Object.
yeah it's not parallel with the ship, it's perpendicular to the hull and orientation of the starship, really intelligent design... the expanse went hard on using real science. impressive, good story too. It filled a niche we needed in sci-fi tbh. I mean some scifi series kinda used real science, Babylon 5 was probably the least offending, using centrifugal force on the station itself to generate gravity, and using newtonian physics with their starfury fighters (which were some of the most logically designed fightercraft in scifi.)
"Be careful Alex. They say one of those things can kill a planet." "Anyone can kill a planet. You don't even need bombs. Just push anvils out the airlock. That thing could kill... shit, anything."
I *just* got to finish s5 last night. So obviously ive been avoiding spoilers. But because of this watched the break down too. Middle finger energy is now my spirit animal. I may even put it on a shirt.
@@JurgenCutters Not remotely. She fought an enemy she couldn't even see and killed 4 before she had to destroy the ship rather than be captured. During that battle she made sure that people bearing intelligence vital to the MCR made it off the ship safely. A USN Captain who engaged 6 stealth ships that collectively possessed superior firepower to the Captain's ship and still killed them all, even at the cost of her ship, and saved vital intelligence would be lauded as having upheld the finest traditions of the service.
@John 6 stealth frigates armed with top of the line missiles and railguns .. had the Donnie had the tactical information they needed they would had most likelly eliminated all 6 of them from long range and not allowed the pack to come close
It's literally a rocket with guns, very utilitarian, very realistic. I like how the CIC is at the heart of the ship and windowless, and not in full sight of the enemy and lightly armored like in Star Wars.
@@Th3Nigma The giant open hanger seems like a massive waste of space; just a set piece for having a cool gun battle in. I think it would make a lot more sense to have smaller ships dock externally.
@@ObsceneSuperMatt True, but docking ships on the outside of the ship could potentially throw off its center of mass, which will negatively impact it's ability to maneuver in combat. Having an internal docking bay means docked ships will have little to no impact on the ship's center of mass.
@@ObsceneSuperMatt Hangar is dramatically out of proportions in the show. As is everything in film production whenever they work on spaceship designs, they have the luxury of room to make it look good for the camera angles, but in reality these things would ussually be half the size based on what you see; there's just no room to fit all that in based on what they're saying or showing on the outside. If we compare the scale of Tachi (which is not a small ship, should be about 75 meters?) there's just no way Donnager would be able to store 6 of those, or even have a hangar this big if the Donnager itself is only 500 meters. Everything else makes sense on paper and on the outside, but as soon as we start comparing interior shots it all starts crumbling down. Described size of the Donnager seems right when you compare it to the sizes of Star Citizen ships which give a very realistic 1:1 display since you can actually walk inside them. Tachi seems about the size of the Connstelation, and if I would put a Constellation model besides the Donnager concept, it seems just about right. Even the Idris class - is about 250 meters with a single railgun and a hangar for a couple of fighter ships - it makes total sense Donnager would be twice as big with a bit bigger hangar for a.. maximum of 70-90 meter ship, but just one and it would be very tight. But what we see on the show, it looks like there's room for lots of those which is just not possible, in that case that would be more than half of the entire interior of the Donnager. If they scaled down the hangar shown by 50% that would be a lot more realistic. Did some digging and found some comparison mockups by the community: i.imgur.com/GIN0e0U.jpg confirms my estimations, Tachi is even smaller than I predicted, but when you put it besides the Donnager it still doesn't make sense it's hangar would be *that* big. The only thing that's bothering me with Tachi design is that based on what we've seen in the show it has a lot more roomy interior than what a Constellation does in Star Citizen, and Connie is a 60 meter ship, Tachi seems to have twice as much interior space. In "reality" there's just no way. It's just another one of those interior oversizing problems in film production, in reality space would be very, *very* cramped in a 50 meter ship. More like how the Retaliator is (where 25% of that ships interior is used just for the torpedo bay). Tl;dr: based on the interior scaling in the show, it makes it feel like Tachi is at least 100+ meter ship and the Donnager would be 1000+. But they're 50m and 500m, the overscaling is the cause of the film production, while in a game like Star Citizen you would get a much more realistic portrayal of how an interior of a spaceship really works.
Doomed by extremely poor tactics (Which is another way of saying the plot demanded it’s sacrifice so it just sat there and let itself get shot in the ass rather than remaining in motion like every other ship in the expanse does in order to maintain gravity)
They had to battle the own (stealth) technology. Mars: great scientist and warrior, poor politicians. There entire political operations have undermined and destroy the purpose of Mars: as world (=> ring worlds with an already existing eco-systems) and as idea (=> corrupt elite which sold this technology to Marcos and Mao and betrayed their own people like in the case of Booby's squad)
@@bluerisk The level of political corruption is debatable, at least in the early seasons. The conspiracy, both Earth and Mars side was isolated to a small cabal operating through a corporate third party which significantly reduced the number of people in each government that needed to be involved. It definitely reduced the number of people with a complete picture. The latter mass corruption shown in the most recent season seems to be, as you say, a result of the Ring Network delivering a mortal gut shot to the underlying principals or Martian culture. It's hard, I'd say impossible, for any polity to survive long when the fundamental buy in it provides its citizens has been undermined so totally.
The Donnager was basically deluxe State of the Art at the time of her destruction and it still took a flotilla of warships that were even more bleeding edge to bring her down. One has to assume if she'd had a full compliment of supporting frigate and destroyers that the battle might have gone differently.
@@Bustermachine It wasn't just that. For starters the captain and the crew didn't believe Holden even though they confirmed he wasn't lying. Instead they were trying to pin the cantaberry destruction on the OPA without any evidence. Add to that they were extremely smug. Had the captain taken the threat seriously she would have called for backup, recalled the missile destroyers and second frigate and deployed the itachi. Instead she casually ignored Holden and treated it like a training exercise.
@@randomguywithwi-fi4948 A lot of symbolism from that moment too. Watching the flagship of the Martian Fleet get stabbed in the back a rogue faction of her own Navy.
Love how the Railguns are called ''Foehammer'', which is also the name of the sword of the legendary Turgon of Gondolin during Middle Earth's first age, but is probably better known for being wielded by Gandalf in The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings trilogy. That makes me realize that the Donnager makes quite the Gandalf metaphor when you think about it!
@K.C johnson Fun fact for you: The Expanse was originally creted as a world for a computer game, the game was never developed, but the IP was instead used few years later for the books.
I feel like if the proto molecule hadn't existed protogen should have sold the Amun Ra class designs to the UN. Using the UN's resources to mass produce hundreds or thousands of these ships would've given the UN the advantage against the MCRN and forced Mars to rethink their reliance on large battleships like the Donnager. Packs of Amun Ra ships roaming the solar system would've instilled fear in the MCRN.
What should worry the MCRN is that these were privately funded, but Earth built frigate class ships aka if the UN ever manages to scrap together enough money their technological advantage may be in peril.
The one thing I haven't really seen in any other show, is that when the larger vessels approach their target location, they will rotate 180 degrees to reverse burn/decelerate. I think I first picked up on this when they were approaching the "Ring". Really neat that physics are being used in this show.
Great to see this episode. Thanks Daniel and the folks from the production team. The Expanse is one of the most realistic sci-fi shows, demonstrating real world tech and tactics. No light speed travel, no phasers. Just good old human engineering and know how. Love SpaceDock, love The Expanse!
this love for details is what makes the expanse something realy unique who ever counts him/herself a scifi fan .. but haven't seen it yet ... do so .. its worth your time
I see a lot of people questioning Yao's actions and whether the Donnager would have survived through an earlier response or indeed a different Captain, but what I think is easy to forget is the experience of all those in the MCRN, besides some standoffs and limited engagements since the civil war, Mars hasn't fought with a peer adversary (the only one they knew of being Earth), their military might was entirely geared around war with Earth, their technology has developed immensely, their soldiers disciplined, fit, intelligent and trained, but ultimately the idea of open beligerence and the practice of actually carrying it out are completely alien to those who had previously only engaged with comparitively miniscule threats from pirates and small scale, decentralised OPA cells, which more frequently weren't armed at all and if they were armed still had an effectively zero percent chance of actually posing any true threat. The element of surprise is a real thing that has started and ended wars in history, and Protogen had that on their side, Yao had no reason to suspect Earth would attack them, and had reason to believe a zealous group of lightly militarised OPA had planned an ill fated attack on them using Holden's crew as bait (if the Cant had been infiltrated with fanatical OPA, perhaps someone whom the MCRN had intelligence on having experience in detonating reactors *ahem* Naomi) but would ultimately fail to destroy the Donnager. Was Yao arrogant? Yes, but was this a unique character trait for a Martian Naval Captain at the time? certainly not, could better decisions been made on part of Yao's CIC? certainly, but do military commands always make the optimal decisions and win every battle? I think the history of human warfare has a very definitive answer to that. So TL;DR Yao and her CIC were arrogant and inexperienced in contemporary astronaval peer combat, but so was every MCRN officer at the time, Protogen had the element of surprise in both their very existence as a militarily powerful entity and having engineered a highly deceptive scenario that worked in their favour. The Donnager could have one, but so could have General Southers successfully detained Admiral Yi or Ashford killed Inaros and prevented the rise of the Free Navy. You start getting into whatifs and you gaze into infinity. All things considered, so long as someone found the batteries, were attacked by a militarily advanced adversary and broadcasted the implication of illegal Martian aggression, Protogen would be on course in their plans.
Question of the day, could have Donnager survived or even won if her captain had taken the engagement seriously from the beginning and launched Rocci when it could have provided extra firepower and second target?
Yes, and besides what others have said, she should have launched all of her gunships. IIRC, the Donnager had 4, Tachi was just the closest one docked. With the Donnager firing more torpedos + 4 Corvettes fighting too, they would have taken it.
Yes and no. I think she did take it seriously with the available information at hand. We've got to remember warheads are very expensive as is reactor mass and wear and tear on the ship (and parasite ships) systems. If she'd known the actual capabilities of the stealth ship she would have taken a more aggressive stance with the outcome likely to be different. But you can only defend against known capabilities not unknown.
@@Manuelomar2001 well, I guess I've meant TV show situation in particular then where we see only Rocci in the hangar alongside the capsule that was brought in. Not as many extra torps and CIWS, but still one extra target that maneuvers around plus you simply can't board Donni while a gunship flies around(similar to how infantry can't use magnetic mines on a tank if there is second one around covering it that can just open fire with all MGs without any fear of injuring their own).
Aiden Hunter I disagree. Not only do the stealth ships have more advanced PDCs they would at minimum be connected to a similar if not better tracking system than the donnager. (Considering the stealth ships already had better torpedo tracking). Along with this the mere light railguns they where equipped with where more than enough to take on the donnager’s super heavy railguns in an all out slug fest. So considering that the stealth ships have hyper cooled PDCs and at minimum a similarly advanced tracking system I don’t think spamming torpedoes would decide this engagement. As for including the frigate the donnager carries it was already pure luck that the rocci survived an encounter with 1 stealth ship (as evident before and after the battle of thoth station) so I don’t think a single martian frigate would have any significant impact on this engagement. What I think the donnager should have done was keep at a distance and focus one ship at a time to prevent them from evading and using railguns. But either way 6 top of the line stealth frigates would be more than a match for the donnager.
@@TheLoremistress except launching Rocci was a logical thing to do. If there is an unknown contact approaching your carrier, you'd send out a plane to intercept and just warn away whomever it is if it's actually a mistake, right? We'd really need an episode on that battle.
I was really hoping the second ship of the class was going to be called Olympus Mons. What a fantastically powerful and well thought out warship though. Love these videos, can't wait to see more.
Now this is what I call 'in depth!' Great job, but I'm surprised that you didn't mention that one of this classes biggest advantages was that it could rotate and fire its railguns while adjusting course, unlike other ships. I mean, you did say the turrets could turn and fire while the ship was moving, but I feel like it's important to distinguish that other vessels couldn't do the same. Really underscores just how technologically progressive the MCR is.
My favourite part is that the railguns are named after Gandalf's sword. Clearly a huge number of the people naming things in the expanse are canonically huge dorks and I love it.
One of the best RUclips clips I've seen in a while! So informative, researched and eloquently spoken. It was almost like you feel the fear you have of this awesome ship!
I just hope the space battles they show now that its moved off sci fi get better. the rocci, vs stealth ship was awesome but the 30 capital ship battle above the protegien base could of been epic.
Well the story as it is in the book only gets bigger in scale the further in it goes. And it also adds a lot of existential dread as the protomolecule plot continues. Plus Jeff Bezos is richer than God and is a fan of the show so I suspect it will be well funded over at amazon.
@@JamesVDBosch yeah.. but aparently that didnt stop them to suicidally throwing themselves at Martian warships.. aparently they even managed some kills acelerating rocks at high speeds (like the Xinglong did in the series) at it was feared that Belters could do mass destruction to mars acelerating asteroids towards the planet
Its very clever to see a ship being designed with elements that it cannot take full advantage of yet, but will allow the spaceframe to be useful long into the future.
Havent seen the S-5 finale then? THe MCRN Sagarmartha is a worthy sistership to the Donnager. Though severely damaged, it still kept on firing 'on pure middlefinger engery', and took out séveral enemy vessels..... Véry cool spacebattle btw, S5E10, the Battle for the Ring Gate. 1 MCRN Donnager-class highly advanced dreadnought, combined with two Truman-class UNN Dreadnoughts guarding the Ring Gate... you'd think tháts a SOLID defence, right? 6 mássive railguns, a plethora of missiletubes and countless PDC's... what could get through that? Well, watch and see! Its one HELL of a battle!
@@SgtShakenBake treachery indeed. Backstabbed by 6 torpedo's getting a direct hit, right into her Engines: the most vulnerable part of the ship! But even áfter that ménacing meteor shower, which crippled the Dreadnought, it still kept firing its other Railgun as well as keeping up a 'screen' of PDC-fire vs incoming torps'. In a quick shot, over Inaros' flagship, the Pella, you see one ofthe FN frigates just getting obliterated by a síngle shot from the Sagarmarta's still operating Railgun, where the the FN is simply out or range for the UNN Trumans. MCRN Dreadnoughts, have far more advanced sensor arrays: can scan further, ánd target enemy's from a larger distance, making it a vástly superior warship to te aging Truman Class from the UNN. Its because of this, the Sagarmarta hád to be taken down first! It was thé most powerful of the 3 mássive Dreadnoughts, guarding the ringgate! Its a stúnning battle indeed! Initially Inaros' Free Navy is outclassed,,, 10 to 1 vs those 3 warships, yet Inaros is but the 'bearbait'... The Meteorstrike is to soften them up. The Medina-torpedo's are to kill the Sagarmarta, and with thát ship gone, the MCRN-rogue ships from Sauveterre can move in, unreckognised, due to the loss ofthe MCRN Dreadnought, again surprising the 2 remaining UNN ships in a flanking manouvre on their most damaged flanks! This was a very well thought out strategy, but then again, if you count the amount of GUNS on those 3 megaships... well saying Inaros only had 1 shot a this to pull this off, is an understatement! Even with Inaros' plan working pérfectly, the allied defense stil ltakes down about half a dozen of Inaros' ships... damaged or aging..they are just thát powerful! Especially the MCRN Sagarmarta! The Donnager-Class Dreadnought is an absolute pinnacle of technological advances! Tbf, UN should be grateful it never came to a direct battle with the MCR. Imo those Donnager-class dreadnoughts would just téar those Trumans apart! Cant wait for S6 and see the MCRN deploy séveral of those badboys to hunt Inaros and Sauveterre!
Wonder why they never considered installing additional torpedo bays in those empty hardpoints. They could be ejected sideways from the ship instead of accelerated down launch tubes which I bet consumes more power. With the wreck of the Osiris handed over to Avasalara Earth now has the opportunity to up it's naval game considerably.
Its impotant to remember in naval design the addition of one thing means sacrificing another. So more torpedoes means less interior space depending on how much ammo you want to stock, and more chane of getting hit and detonating those torpedoes. Possibly extra mass means more power used to propel the ship means more fuel usage means shorter patrol deployments or heavier fuel loads. So just because you could add extra weapons you may not necessarily want to.
@@christophermitchell7001 why not both? I feel they differ enough to enjoy. I myself started the books after 3rd season ended, and now reading the 7th.
"Whos gonna feast on Earths sky and drink their rivers dry?! Whos going stomp their mountains into fine Martian dust!?! Until the rains fall hard on Olympus Mons who are we!?!?! I CANT HEAR YOU!?!?! WHO ARE WE!?!?!?" Remember the DONNY!!
An entire generation of progress lost, because the Martians decided to become a militaristic state bent on holding a grudge against the home world for having natural oceans
MCRN FTW! The MCRN is by far the best military in the Expanse (TV show at least). Some things I'd change about the Donnager would be: - Water coolant system, ejecting steam into space - more reactor power and more weapons. - More short-range weapons - More support ships - More armored troops to prevent boarding. - Flechette PDCs to prevent boarding (by live troops at least) - Flechette railgun rounds to disable ships at medium range. Whet do you think?
It’s important to remember that in naval design no ship is truly state of the art, as between the time you design, lay down and build a ship tech has already progressed. So ship design is a game of predicting what the future of battle will be. Basically this means that more stuff of one thing will mean less of another (water coolant system=less drinking water=shorter patrol/range). Also the more of something will mean longer build time, meaning the vessel will be that much more outdated. Now there is always retrofitting but often if you’re replacing internal systems it means rebuilding a ship, so why not just build a new one?
The loss of the Donnanger was the result of one thing, arrogance. The captain couldn't even convince of a threat her ship couldn't face. Once the Donnanger's thermal control systems were damaged its fate and the fate of her crew were sealed. It reminds me of the battle of the Denmark straight. No one thought the HMS Hood could be lost so easily.
There isn't really any more massive Space battles in the books. Of the current class of Martian ships. In the newest book there is space battles involving newer ships though
Every time I hear Daniel talk about The Expanse I think “That sounds really interesting, I definitely should check it out at some point”. But this does it. I am starting to watch it this evening.
I love this ship design. The giant engines just make it look like a badass rocket. Taking out one of these ships was quite a feat and kind of emphasizes what a great design the stealth ships were.
Thank goodness The Expanse was saved by Jeff Bezos and Amazon. Hopefully this INCREDIBLE SHOW will benefit from a higher budget and higher production quality.
I still kinda think it should have been Netflix to do that. They got shows like Altered Carbon and The Last Kingdom that do not neccessarily appeal to big audiences are based on books and are actually great. We'll see what Amazon do with the property though.
@@mbnhiphopmusik6429 I agree ... Netflix already has a monopoly over that market and I'm afraid of the show being hindered by it's platform and suffering the fate Nokia's Lumia phones endured So I'm a bit worried about that, But I mean personally I couldn't give a damn since I live in Transylvania where there's no Netflix nor Amazon so i'll be whatchin on Popcorntime lol
@@mihailazar2487 Not that I'm a big fan of either service but why don't you guys have NetFlix or Amazon in Transylvania? And I'm guessing that's Romania and not Transylvania, Louisiana.
I love these videos. They give more info and you get to understand so much more. You guys really helped me love the Expanse by explaining an important part of the show.
Love the touches like the extra hardpoints they make the design and the universe seem much more real. Same thing goes for the un ships being outdated because of politics. In fact the expanse just does a brilliant overall job of making everything about it seem real
That might take another season before they even approach the plot for that arc of the Expanse. We’ll just have to see, but I’m psyched for when it happens
Myth: Teflon coating does not improve armor-piercing capability - but it does save wear-and-tear on barrels, and reduce deflections off hard, angled surfaces.
you need depleted uranium tipped rounds for armor piercing, they are illegal in War but that never stopped the US and UK from radiating the shit outta iraq
@@Rudeskie Depleted uranium is not illegal, nor is it particularly radioactive. It is quite toxic though, which has caused many groups to work toward banning or restricting its use.
I really do love to watch your videos about all the space ships from all the different programs and games, especially the ships of The Expanse. This video of the Donnager is one of your best and most thorough description of any ship so far, or at least that I can remember hearing and watching. I think I'm going to switch one of my Patreion to your channel. Thank you for your hard work and outstanding imagination in everything you put on your channel.
Surely there would also be a handful of torpedos onboard with multi-megaton yield strategic warheads, ala those that blasted apart Phoebe. A fleet might need such firepower if it has to deal with situation like say, belters illegally moving asteroids into Mars intersect orbit.
I got into this show late and loved it. But I must say after watching this I realized the Donnager class ship is the Willis "Sears" Tower in Chicago. When I look at it now I think Holy Sh*t thats the Donnager?
Assuming they're traditional powder rounds there would have to be oxygen for detonation to occur to fire the projectile. Logical then you would see fire coming out.
Love how this video gives the MCRN Warships credit other than the tv series where it was destroyed kinda easily. Love those ships, glad you made a video on it
Bruv. The DOnnie was killed by like 6 state of the art stealth destroyers. It killed most of them without having ANY intel on them. I would say the Donni put up quiet the fight.
@@bjahava One complaint I have about the fight is how easily the MCRN Marines were overpowered. That shouldn't have happened as the MCRN should have had significantly more than the two remaining destroyers. Especially, if the Donnager class carries Force Recon marines in Goliath power armor like is stated in this video.
@@qfinck The Marines were not activated. By the time Captain Mao realized how fucked they were.. the Donnie had already taken several rail gun rounds. Her crew were dead.
Love this series. Any chance you’ll be updating it in the future, now that we have new Martian/Free Navy ships and uhh...whatever Duarte and Cortázar are up to?
Hey Daniel, Have you ever read the excellent series of books called 'The Lost Fleet'? It's descriptions of space combat are rather magnificent, making it into effectively space jousting because of the speeds the ships are moving at. If you haven't I highly recommend that you pick up the series and give it a shot. I'd love to hear what you think of the ship combat as I believe it's version of space combat makes far more sense than most IP's.
That seems rather wasteful depending on their propulsion technologies. The amount of retro burning and acceleration would heat up the ship to ridiculously high levels and maybe expand all the fuel. It's often better to perform long distance sensor and recon sweeps, ID a target and then match their relative vector. The the battle becomes more natural, just at super long distances.
@@Nurhaal well with the distances involved in travelling across systems ships have to travel at relatistic speeds, often up to 0.2c or higher. Going at these speeds to cross the system means that slowing down to engage and then speeding up again would waste far more fuel that keeping the speed going and using it in the combat itself. It makes a lot more sense than ships standing still in a fight or crossing a star system at speeds where fleets closing at each other matching speeds and using fighters. The books describe it quite well and I believe it makes a lot of sense if you read them and understand it.
@@MrEakieran I'd certainly need to look it up because I'm still not convinced. You stated more reason why fuel consumption is paramount. I'm a modern military enthusiast with strong connections to current technologies and doctrine. When Air Superiority fighters engaged for example, they use their longest ranged weapons first and often at the highest speed capable as that increases range and terminal speeds ( a faster missile is harder to dodge ). The problem is that these attacks only work in Asymmetric situations where the enemy engaged does not have the CM to realize they're being painted and attacked from 100km out. If same or similar standards of weapons platforms were used, even the one with a long ranged bias would likely burn through 3 to 6 missiles to get a single kill. By this time, they're approaching a merge if there are several agents on either side. This similar 'lancing' or 'jousting' is used in IRL with these fighters and the reason a Merge occurred at all is because the constant maneuvers to evade the long distance attacks burn your energy. Since you're way slower, you're forced into a furball and are fighting WVR instead of BVR. Once in WVR, you re constantly fighting physics to give back your speed so you're generally in Afterburner 100% of the time in this situation. At max fuel consumption, most fighters can remain engaged in this manner for mere minutes only before they have to bug out and RTB. The maneuvers that occur are both to try and catch or evade the dogfight, as well as end up in a position where you can still retreat even when Bingo Fuel. I hope the book addresses this because much like IRL, we thought BVM the new norm, however physical fuel reserves, physics itself and countermeasures ensure that evenly matched opponents will get forced into bloody knife duels and this is why dogfighting is still taught heavily til this day. I'm going to look it up and see if I can find out what the author uses for this setting. I'm hoping the book addresses this
I loved the combat and strategy aspects, but the main character spending all his time basically going "How can I reeeeeach these keeeeeeeds" got old after awhile, lol
i pretty much still waiting for more Freespace stuff on this channel, i really loved that video on the Orion Class destroyer you did a couple years ago and i want MOAR, big fan here and an all time fan of Freespace :D
Foxfire Don’t have to be close to do damage - look up the Casaba-Howitzer... nuclear bomb powered directed energy weapons, with ranges that can reach over 1000 km.
- state of the art martian vessel that is the martian navy's pride VS -kesla syndrome Answer The point defense system lacks plasma core lasers and rail auto cannons. To make things worse her armor is useless against rail gun fire and high velocity space debris. This ship would not survive 5 seconds of kesla syndrome. Even the martian ship designers are idiotic. Not as bad as the UNN or real life space force but that is a very low bar to clear.
You guys seriously put the opening sound bit for Battle Zone II: Combat Commander in the start of your video. Cue hair raising nostalgia moment; you have my FULL attention.
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
Just to clarify, some of the concept art predates the final model and shows more torpedo tubes on the nose and fewer on the aft. The final count as seen on the model itself is 6 Forward, 4 Aft.
Dude, great video. Thanks for the upload. Thank you for doing some content from The Expanse.
Fun fact: Kaminari is Japanese for "Lightning".
could also be variant's in the design like one could be more fitted out to have more torpedo launchers but no cargo space for as many light warships for the excess ammo those additional tubes would need
@@Duke_of_Petchington there the germany of space the earth forces are basically america
@@米空軍パイロット Donnager can be translated from old-german to Thunderer. Donar is the old-german name of Thor and the word for Thunder.
Just started season 2. When it is explained that the Martians were basically forced to choose between funding terraforming or funding the navy, the sheer value and importance of these ships is really driven home. The Martians literally have an emotional investment in them, because they sacrificed so much for their construction.
*belters sacrificed so much
@@dgd947a15fl well no, Mars sacrificed their dreams of the future.
@@dgd947a15flbelters didn’t sacrifice anything because it was taken from them 😎
Mao: "don't ever tell me about sacrifice. ever!"
That will bite them in the ass, remember.
Pakistan once said that they will eat grass but research their own nuclear weapons. Look where that got them to.
Note that ships in this universe don't have artificial gravity, and instead have more realistic thrust gravity. So they should be viewed on the vertical, not the horizontal. They're basically sky scrapers in space.
In the anime Sidonia no kishi, the ship Sidonia was the most beautiful ship/colony design, very realístic, except for the fact Is full of Lolis. But Is a good show. Another mecha show was Heavy Object.
yeah it's not parallel with the ship, it's perpendicular to the hull and orientation of the starship, really intelligent design... the expanse went hard on using real science. impressive, good story too. It filled a niche we needed in sci-fi tbh. I mean some scifi series kinda used real science, Babylon 5 was probably the least offending, using centrifugal force on the station itself to generate gravity, and using newtonian physics with their starfury fighters (which were some of the most logically designed fightercraft in scifi.)
Doesn't that mean that they have to move forward all the time at a minimum speed?
@@projectpitchfork860 If they want gravity, yes. They don't always want gravity, though.
Wow. I think the only other big sci-fi I've seen this in is Battletech.
"Be careful Alex. They say one of those things can kill a planet."
"Anyone can kill a planet. You don't even need bombs. Just push anvils out the airlock. That thing could kill... shit, anything."
Hits different after season 5
The only ship that can fly on pure middle finger energy.
*old man Steve I got that reference.gif*
@@isaacdestura7495 help, which spacedock vid is that reference from?
@@olympioalexander8151 Spacedock's battle breakdown of the battles at the end of the Expanse Season 5
I *just* got to finish s5 last night. So obviously ive been avoiding spoilers. But because of this watched the break down too.
Middle finger energy is now my spirit animal. I may even put it on a shirt.
fusion reactor
The expanse = instant like
Ex pants are no longer pants. They are Shorts. Remember the Shorts.
Should have done that before leaving out the door today.
too soon
_The Tachi is away!_
_Captain, this door won't hold much longer._
_I didn't think we could lose._
That scene still breaks my heart.
why must you remind us of this scene.. how could you be so cruel?
Worst captain ever
@@JurgenCutters Lee Adama would like a word
@@JurgenCutters Not remotely. She fought an enemy she couldn't even see and killed 4 before she had to destroy the ship rather than be captured. During that battle she made sure that people bearing intelligence vital to the MCR made it off the ship safely.
A USN Captain who engaged 6 stealth ships that collectively possessed superior firepower to the Captain's ship and still killed them all, even at the cost of her ship, and saved vital intelligence would be lauded as having upheld the finest traditions of the service.
She could have said a better line, but then again I have herd someone say that she was too big to sink.
"She's not some rock-hopper. She's the flagship of the MCRN's Jupiter Fleet." Wonderful piece of technology. Remember the Donnager!
She beat them. She used her reactors to end them. She removed them from the board. Sounds like a win. Long term. For Mars.
Remember the Don.
@John 6 stealth frigates armed with top of the line missiles and railguns .. had the Donnie had the tactical information they needed they would had most likelly eliminated all 6 of them from long range and not allowed the pack to come close
Agreed. We must remember the Roci-mama.
o7
Lego really need to get the rights to make expanse sets because it would be awesome to have a model of the donnager in Lego. Excellent video as well.
SO SAY WE ALL!
Oooohhhhhhh yes
@@tachy1801 I saw a picture of a lego Tachi
@@echoeversky Alert! Alert! Foreign spies have entered the comments section!
I'm working on it...
Absolutley love the design of the expanse ships
It's literally a rocket with guns, very utilitarian, very realistic. I like how the CIC is at the heart of the ship and windowless, and not in full sight of the enemy and lightly armored like in Star Wars.
@@Th3Nigma The giant open hanger seems like a massive waste of space; just a set piece for having a cool gun battle in. I think it would make a lot more sense to have smaller ships dock externally.
@@ObsceneSuperMatt True, but docking ships on the outside of the ship could potentially throw off its center of mass, which will negatively impact it's ability to maneuver in combat. Having an internal docking bay means docked ships will have little to no impact on the ship's center of mass.
@@thepsion5 Or just launch the corvette when engaging in combat?
@@ObsceneSuperMatt Hangar is dramatically out of proportions in the show. As is everything in film production whenever they work on spaceship designs, they have the luxury of room to make it look good for the camera angles, but in reality these things would ussually be half the size based on what you see; there's just no room to fit all that in based on what they're saying or showing on the outside. If we compare the scale of Tachi (which is not a small ship, should be about 75 meters?) there's just no way Donnager would be able to store 6 of those, or even have a hangar this big if the Donnager itself is only 500 meters.
Everything else makes sense on paper and on the outside, but as soon as we start comparing interior shots it all starts crumbling down. Described size of the Donnager seems right when you compare it to the sizes of Star Citizen ships which give a very realistic 1:1 display since you can actually walk inside them. Tachi seems about the size of the Connstelation, and if I would put a Constellation model besides the Donnager concept, it seems just about right. Even the Idris class - is about 250 meters with a single railgun and a hangar for a couple of fighter ships - it makes total sense Donnager would be twice as big with a bit bigger hangar for a.. maximum of 70-90 meter ship, but just one and it would be very tight. But what we see on the show, it looks like there's room for lots of those which is just not possible, in that case that would be more than half of the entire interior of the Donnager. If they scaled down the hangar shown by 50% that would be a lot more realistic.
Did some digging and found some comparison mockups by the community: i.imgur.com/GIN0e0U.jpg confirms my estimations, Tachi is even smaller than I predicted, but when you put it besides the Donnager it still doesn't make sense it's hangar would be *that* big.
The only thing that's bothering me with Tachi design is that based on what we've seen in the show it has a lot more roomy interior than what a Constellation does in Star Citizen, and Connie is a 60 meter ship, Tachi seems to have twice as much interior space. In "reality" there's just no way. It's just another one of those interior oversizing problems in film production, in reality space would be very, *very* cramped in a 50 meter ship. More like how the Retaliator is (where 25% of that ships interior is used just for the torpedo bay).
Tl;dr: based on the interior scaling in the show, it makes it feel like Tachi is at least 100+ meter ship and the Donnager would be 1000+. But they're 50m and 500m, the overscaling is the cause of the film production, while in a game like Star Citizen you would get a much more realistic portrayal of how an interior of a spaceship really works.
The 6 dislikes are from the Protogen Stealth Ships that got fragged
Now it's 9, the rest of the Amun Ra class vessels have come to avenge their lost brethren...
But they still frag videoed the donnager tho.
raidenzero it’s a joke
They were the prototypes for an entire new type of ship design technology. They did what they had to.
Splash one.
RIP MCRN Sagarmartha. Another doomed ship who put up a good fight against the odds.
"Powered by sheer middle finger energy"
Doomed by extremely poor tactics (Which is another way of saying the plot demanded it’s sacrifice so it just sat there and let itself get shot in the ass rather than remaining in motion like every other ship in the expanse does in order to maintain gravity)
I kinda get why the Donnager crew was so confident now.
They had to battle the own (stealth) technology.
Mars: great scientist and warrior, poor politicians. There entire political operations have undermined and destroy the purpose of Mars: as world (=> ring worlds with an already existing eco-systems) and as idea (=> corrupt elite which sold this technology to Marcos and Mao and betrayed their own people like in the case of Booby's squad)
@@bluerisk The level of political corruption is debatable, at least in the early seasons. The conspiracy, both Earth and Mars side was isolated to a small cabal operating through a corporate third party which significantly reduced the number of people in each government that needed to be involved. It definitely reduced the number of people with a complete picture.
The latter mass corruption shown in the most recent season seems to be, as you say, a result of the Ring Network delivering a mortal gut shot to the underlying principals or Martian culture. It's hard, I'd say impossible, for any polity to survive long when the fundamental buy in it provides its citizens has been undermined so totally.
The Donnager was basically deluxe State of the Art at the time of her destruction and it still took a flotilla of warships that were even more bleeding edge to bring her down.
One has to assume if she'd had a full compliment of supporting frigate and destroyers that the battle might have gone differently.
I thought the same thing after seeing Bobby
@@Bustermachine It wasn't just that. For starters the captain and the crew didn't believe Holden even though they confirmed he wasn't lying. Instead they were trying to pin the cantaberry destruction on the OPA without any evidence.
Add to that they were extremely smug. Had the captain taken the threat seriously she would have called for backup, recalled the missile destroyers and second frigate and deployed the itachi.
Instead she casually ignored Holden and treated it like a training exercise.
Respect to the crew of the Sagaramatha and their valiant final stand against Inaros and the traitors.
the Sagarmatha held up well in my opinion until it got attacked from behind.
Were it not for the micrometeoroid shower and getting shot in the back, the Sagaramatha would have held the line.
Captain Samuels, surrender Medina station and prepare to be boarded.
@@randomguywithwi-fi4948 A lot of symbolism from that moment too. Watching the flagship of the Martian Fleet get stabbed in the back a rogue faction of her own Navy.
"Held together through mere middle finger energy"
Love how the Railguns are called ''Foehammer'', which is also the name of the sword of the legendary Turgon of Gondolin during Middle Earth's first age, but is probably better known for being wielded by Gandalf in The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings trilogy. That makes me realize that the Donnager makes quite the Gandalf metaphor when you think about it!
Foe Hammer goes back further than LoTR
And yet no one remembers Pelican Echo 419 "Foehammer"
@Leonardo Ceballos nice to see someone remembers her
Kinda waiting for Boghammer space boats from the Iranian Space Force lmao
The coolesr sentence in the english language is: "The Martian Battleship's railguns are named after Gandalf's sword"
One of my favourite ship designs of recent memory. Very practical whilst still looking awesome
It's a volvo with a gunrack. This is a good thing.
Who’s here after seeing the MCRN Sagarmatha still fight the Free Navy after she was riddled with holes?
Even wounded she stood her ground. *presses F to pay respects*
F
@@eddietrujillo4638 F
Wish we could see the crew amidst the fight
@@samlycan8826 I'm sure the ship was utterly full of carnage after the micrometeorites.
Should do a battle breakdown of The Donnager vs Stealth Ships.
This need to go up :D please do a battle breakdown of the Donnager v. Protogen ship
They did do a breakdown of the Stealth Ships, turns out all of them were destroyed or skuttled either by the Donnager or her corvette the Tachi/Roci.
That would be awesome!!
@K.C johnson Fun fact for you: The Expanse was originally creted as a world for a computer game, the game was never developed, but the IP was instead used few years later for the books.
I feel like if the proto molecule hadn't existed protogen should have sold the Amun Ra class designs to the UN. Using the UN's resources to mass produce hundreds or thousands of these ships would've given the UN the advantage against the MCRN and forced Mars to rethink their reliance on large battleships like the Donnager. Packs of Amun Ra ships roaming the solar system would've instilled fear in the MCRN.
Would love a mini series on the "Pirate Suppression Campaign" involving Yao and also deals with various missions by the Force Recon Marines!!!
"Sounds like railguns firing, means were in CQB, who would be stupid enough to attack the donnager in CQB
Insane, not stupid, insane enough :D
What should worry the MCRN is that these were privately funded, but Earth built frigate class ships aka if the UN ever manages to scrap together enough money their technological advantage may be in peril.
@@mangalores-x_x I never thought of that, you make a good point. Imagine Truman dreads with steal tech and extra railgun.
Boxghost102 stealth tech is kinda useless for actual combat as once you start firing or if you use your engines you will be detected
@@iain3713 first-look, first-shot, first-kill
This was the best recruitment video for the MCRN.
The main thing I appreciate about this vid is the proper use of "futureproof". Good job, Spacedock. You're vids are getting better and better.
The one thing I haven't really seen in any other show, is that when the larger vessels approach their target location, they will rotate 180 degrees to reverse burn/decelerate. I think I first picked up on this when they were approaching the "Ring". Really neat that physics are being used in this show.
Damn, all those bullets/projectiles that haven't hit will be flying on forever. Could become a problem.
No, you just need to make sure you fire them faster than solar escape velocity, and they'll head out into space forever.
And hit somebody else... Klingons!
Reminds me of this: ruclips.net/video/6q1IaWLsyrQ/видео.html
@@FlorenceFox Before I click this, is this from Mass Effect?
@@Interitus1 YEP.
The Expanse ship designs are so good. Love the Martian light frigate
Great to see this episode. Thanks Daniel and the folks from the production team. The Expanse is one of the most realistic sci-fi shows, demonstrating real world tech and tactics. No light speed travel, no phasers. Just good old human engineering and know how. Love SpaceDock, love The Expanse!
"Only ship to be lost was the donnager herself"
Oh this poor sweet innocent video.
Then later they just FedEx some Donnagers to the other systems. 🤓
this love for details is what makes the expanse something realy unique
who ever counts him/herself a scifi fan .. but haven't seen it yet ... do so .. its worth your time
I'm thinking The Expanse will be the next series I watch from start to finish on Amazon Prime Video.
Do it now.
If you haven't seen the 3 seasons they have so far I kinda envy you ....
"I think they're diverting power to the railguns . . . "
@Tim Burning "Who would be insane enough to engage the Donnager in CQB!?"
"This is not supposed to happen!"
Hey! Alex! Look wha I've got! here ya go... everything is going be OK. Everything is going to be just fi-
“Stares at Shed’s decapitated body.”
"You know for a badass Mickey navy boy you're a pretty whiny little bitch"
Who's here after watching Donnager Class laststand front of the ring gate?
me
it actually held up really well until it got nuked from behind
@@randomguywithwi-fi4948 yeah, it held up like a champ
Me 😭😭
Yeah they only took it down cuz Medina station had to stab it in the back
my first exposure to the expanse and all I can say is WOW.
The Donnager battle always reminds me of the first space battle in Crest of the Stars. A lone powerful warship beset upon by a wolfpack.
I see a lot of people questioning Yao's actions and whether the Donnager would have survived through an earlier response or indeed a different Captain, but what I think is easy to forget is the experience of all those in the MCRN, besides some standoffs and limited engagements since the civil war, Mars hasn't fought with a peer adversary (the only one they knew of being Earth), their military might was entirely geared around war with Earth, their technology has developed immensely, their soldiers disciplined, fit, intelligent and trained, but ultimately the idea of open beligerence and the practice of actually carrying it out are completely alien to those who had previously only engaged with comparitively miniscule threats from pirates and small scale, decentralised OPA cells, which more frequently weren't armed at all and if they were armed still had an effectively zero percent chance of actually posing any true threat. The element of surprise is a real thing that has started and ended wars in history, and Protogen had that on their side, Yao had no reason to suspect Earth would attack them, and had reason to believe a zealous group of lightly militarised OPA had planned an ill fated attack on them using Holden's crew as bait (if the Cant had been infiltrated with fanatical OPA, perhaps someone whom the MCRN had intelligence on having experience in detonating reactors *ahem* Naomi) but would ultimately fail to destroy the Donnager. Was Yao arrogant? Yes, but was this a unique character trait for a Martian Naval Captain at the time? certainly not, could better decisions been made on part of Yao's CIC? certainly, but do military commands always make the optimal decisions and win every battle? I think the history of human warfare has a very definitive answer to that.
So TL;DR Yao and her CIC were arrogant and inexperienced in contemporary astronaval peer combat, but so was every MCRN officer at the time, Protogen had the element of surprise in both their very existence as a militarily powerful entity and having engineered a highly deceptive scenario that worked in their favour. The Donnager could have one, but so could have General Southers successfully detained Admiral Yi or Ashford killed Inaros and prevented the rise of the Free Navy. You start getting into whatifs and you gaze into infinity.
All things considered, so long as someone found the batteries, were attacked by a militarily advanced adversary and broadcasted the implication of illegal Martian aggression, Protogen would be on course in their plans.
Question of the day, could have Donnager survived or even won if her captain had taken the engagement seriously from the beginning and launched Rocci when it could have provided extra firepower and second target?
Yes, and besides what others have said, she should have launched all of her gunships. IIRC, the Donnager had 4, Tachi was just the closest one docked. With the Donnager firing more torpedos + 4 Corvettes fighting too, they would have taken it.
Yes and no. I think she did take it seriously with the available information at hand. We've got to remember warheads are very expensive as is reactor mass and wear and tear on the ship (and parasite ships) systems. If she'd known the actual capabilities of the stealth ship she would have taken a more aggressive stance with the outcome likely to be different. But you can only defend against known capabilities not unknown.
@@Manuelomar2001 well, I guess I've meant TV show situation in particular then where we see only Rocci in the hangar alongside the capsule that was brought in. Not as many extra torps and CIWS, but still one extra target that maneuvers around plus you simply can't board Donni while a gunship flies around(similar to how infantry can't use magnetic mines on a tank if there is second one around covering it that can just open fire with all MGs without any fear of injuring their own).
Aiden Hunter I disagree. Not only do the stealth ships have more advanced PDCs they would at minimum be connected to a similar if not better tracking system than the donnager. (Considering the stealth ships already had better torpedo tracking). Along with this the mere light railguns they where equipped with where more than enough to take on the donnager’s super heavy railguns in an all out slug fest. So considering that the stealth ships have hyper cooled PDCs and at minimum a similarly advanced tracking system I don’t think spamming torpedoes would decide this engagement. As for including the frigate the donnager carries it was already pure luck that the rocci survived an encounter with 1 stealth ship (as evident before and after the battle of thoth station) so I don’t think a single martian frigate would have any significant impact on this engagement. What I think the donnager should have done was keep at a distance and focus one ship at a time to prevent them from evading and using railguns. But either way 6 top of the line stealth frigates would be more than a match for the donnager.
@@TheLoremistress except launching Rocci was a logical thing to do. If there is an unknown contact approaching your carrier, you'd send out a plane to intercept and just warn away whomever it is if it's actually a mistake, right? We'd really need an episode on that battle.
Foe Hammer...as is Gandalf's sword. Even the future loves Tolkien.
Also Halo
Martians are descended from scientists and engineers. Of course they're giant nerds.
I was really hoping the second ship of the class was going to be called Olympus Mons.
What a fantastically powerful and well thought out warship though.
Love these videos, can't wait to see more.
Now this is what I call 'in depth!' Great job, but I'm surprised that you didn't mention that one of this classes biggest advantages was that it could rotate and fire its railguns while adjusting course, unlike other ships. I mean, you did say the turrets could turn and fire while the ship was moving, but I feel like it's important to distinguish that other vessels couldn't do the same. Really underscores just how technologically progressive the MCR is.
It was mentioned
My favourite part is that the railguns are named after Gandalf's sword. Clearly a huge number of the people naming things in the expanse are canonically huge dorks and I love it.
As much as I like the Donnager, I’m a sucker for the Truman Class.
One of the best RUclips clips I've seen in a while! So informative, researched and eloquently spoken. It was almost like you feel the fear you have of this awesome ship!
My sister-in-law asked me what I wanted for my birthday this year. Thanks to Spacedock I had a ready-made answer 🤣
I just hope the space battles they show now that its moved off sci fi get better. the rocci, vs stealth ship was awesome but the 30 capital ship battle above the protegien base could of been epic.
They actually cut half the Space battles from caliban's war, out of season 3
Well the story as it is in the book only gets bigger in scale the further in it goes. And it also adds a lot of existential dread as the protomolecule plot continues. Plus Jeff Bezos is richer than God and is a fan of the show so I suspect it will be well funded over at amazon.
@@daedalus-N7 and also they cut all the Mars-Belt war from book one.. in wich Belters and Mars go full beserk on one another for some weeks
@@sparrowlt Meh, at that point the OPA didn't really have any actual combat vessels.
@@JamesVDBosch yeah.. but aparently that didnt stop them to suicidally throwing themselves at Martian warships.. aparently they even managed some kills acelerating rocks at high speeds (like the Xinglong did in the series) at it was feared that Belters could do mass destruction to mars acelerating asteroids towards the planet
Its very clever to see a ship being designed with elements that it cannot take full advantage of yet, but will allow the spaceframe to be useful long into the future.
I've been hoping for this, the big Donny is my favorite ship in The Expanse and I'm glad to see you cover her.
Havent seen the S-5 finale then? THe MCRN Sagarmartha is a worthy sistership to the Donnager.
Though severely damaged, it still kept on firing 'on pure middlefinger engery', and took out séveral enemy vessels.....
Véry cool spacebattle btw, S5E10, the Battle for the Ring Gate. 1 MCRN Donnager-class highly advanced dreadnought, combined with two Truman-class UNN Dreadnoughts guarding the Ring Gate... you'd think tháts a SOLID defence, right? 6 mássive railguns, a plethora of missiletubes and countless PDC's... what could get through that?
Well, watch and see! Its one HELL of a battle!
@@thegreenreaper6660 Yes! I love that scene! Even tho she's shot to yell she goes down swinging and only gets taken out because of treachery
@@SgtShakenBake treachery indeed. Backstabbed by 6 torpedo's getting a direct hit, right into her Engines: the most vulnerable part of the ship!
But even áfter that ménacing meteor shower, which crippled the Dreadnought, it still kept firing its other Railgun as well as keeping up a 'screen' of PDC-fire vs incoming torps'. In a quick shot, over Inaros' flagship, the Pella, you see one ofthe FN frigates just getting obliterated by a síngle shot from the Sagarmarta's still operating Railgun, where the the FN is simply out or range for the UNN Trumans.
MCRN Dreadnoughts, have far more advanced sensor arrays: can scan further, ánd target enemy's from a larger distance, making it a vástly superior warship to te aging Truman Class from the UNN.
Its because of this, the Sagarmarta hád to be taken down first! It was thé most powerful of the 3 mássive Dreadnoughts, guarding the ringgate!
Its a stúnning battle indeed!
Initially Inaros' Free Navy is outclassed,,, 10 to 1 vs those 3 warships, yet Inaros is but the 'bearbait'... The Meteorstrike is to soften them up. The Medina-torpedo's are to kill the Sagarmarta, and with thát ship gone, the MCRN-rogue ships from Sauveterre can move in, unreckognised, due to the loss ofthe MCRN Dreadnought, again surprising the 2 remaining UNN ships in a flanking manouvre on their most damaged flanks!
This was a very well thought out strategy, but then again, if you count the amount of GUNS on those 3 megaships... well saying Inaros only had 1 shot a this to pull this off, is an understatement!
Even with Inaros' plan working pérfectly, the allied defense stil ltakes down about half a dozen of Inaros' ships... damaged or aging..they are just thát powerful! Especially the MCRN Sagarmarta!
The Donnager-Class Dreadnought is an absolute pinnacle of technological advances! Tbf, UN should be grateful it never came to a direct battle with the MCR. Imo those Donnager-class dreadnoughts would just téar those Trumans apart!
Cant wait for S6 and see the MCRN deploy séveral of those badboys to hunt Inaros and Sauveterre!
Wonder why they never considered installing additional torpedo bays in those empty hardpoints. They could be ejected sideways from the ship instead of accelerated down launch tubes which I bet consumes more power. With the wreck of the Osiris handed over to Avasalara Earth now has the opportunity to up it's naval game considerably.
Its impotant to remember in naval design the addition of one thing means sacrificing another. So more torpedoes means less interior space depending on how much ammo you want to stock, and more chane of getting hit and detonating those torpedoes. Possibly extra mass means more power used to propel the ship means more fuel usage means shorter patrol deployments or heavier fuel loads.
So just because you could add extra weapons you may not necessarily want to.
They exist in the real world. Roll off torpedo launchers
Accelerating torps down launch tubes would probably be really important for how much of their own fuel they expend accelerating.
You got to give it to the expanse team for coming up with such an effective ship design that also maintains realism and tactical thinking.
Got all the books on audible and rewatched the series twice. I love this series.
I need to actually watch the Expanse.
It's a great show.
It's a great show, kind of starts of slow though.
Just read the novels.
@@temiajuwon8893 Yes... with some nice slow space sex 😁
@@christophermitchell7001 why not both? I feel they differ enough to enjoy. I myself started the books after 3rd season ended, and now reading the 7th.
I'm a simple man. I see Expanse I upvote.
I feel like the Donnager's design took some inspiration from UNSC ships.
"Whos gonna feast on Earths sky and drink their rivers dry?! Whos going stomp their mountains into fine Martian dust!?! Until the rains fall hard on Olympus Mons who are we!?!?! I CANT HEAR YOU!?!?! WHO ARE WE!?!?!?" Remember the DONNY!!
Funny the coment with amperion o the logo (even if traw probaly would be aversed to this aproach) simce martians and imperial share comonalities.
An entire generation of progress lost, because the Martians decided to become a militaristic state bent on holding a grudge against the home world for having natural oceans
MCRN FTW!
The MCRN is by far the best military in the Expanse (TV show at least). Some things I'd change about the Donnager would be:
- Water coolant system, ejecting steam into space - more reactor power and more weapons.
- More short-range weapons
- More support ships
- More armored troops to prevent boarding.
- Flechette PDCs to prevent boarding (by live troops at least)
- Flechette railgun rounds to disable ships at medium range.
Whet do you think?
Deployable flechette turrets are used in ship halls and critical rooms -- the book mentioned their use as a security system
It’s important to remember that in naval design no ship is truly state of the art, as between the time you design, lay down and build a ship tech has already progressed. So ship design is a game of predicting what the future of battle will be. Basically this means that more stuff of one thing will mean less of another (water coolant system=less drinking water=shorter patrol/range). Also the more of something will mean longer build time, meaning the vessel will be that much more outdated.
Now there is always retrofitting but often if you’re replacing internal systems it means rebuilding a ship, so why not just build a new one?
I love the MCR, but I prefer Laconia
@@duckboiii4441 fair, I'm just halfway through book 7 now and Laconia is pretty cool
As now recently stated by Daniel himself.
These ships are held toghether with "Sheer middle finger energy"
The loss of the Donnanger was the result of one thing, arrogance. The captain couldn't even convince of a threat her ship couldn't face. Once the Donnanger's thermal control systems were damaged its fate and the fate of her crew were sealed. It reminds me of the battle of the Denmark straight. No one thought the HMS Hood could be lost so easily.
Stellar walkthrough, lots of juicy details from the amazing Expanse universe.
"I didn't think we could lose..."
Honestly one of the most detailed videos you've produced! Fantastic information!
So in future seasons, will we see Donnager-Class Battleships with four railguns? Because I'm excited.
And they'll end up like the Excalibur from the Crusade (B5 spin off) :D without power for 1 minute :D
@Aiden Hunter railgun propulsion drive
@@battleoid2411 Kzinti lesson 1: your engine is your gun
Kzinti lesson 2: your gun is your engine
There isn't really any more massive Space battles in the books. Of the current class of Martian ships. In the newest book there is space battles involving newer ships though
@@battleoid2411 You joke but that actually happens in one of the books.
this is your best show to date. it may be sci fi, but your care and consideration for the literary and visual arts is to be commended. kudos.
Barkeith has been retconned and is a Supply ship now, not a Donnager
Every time I hear Daniel talk about The Expanse I think “That sounds really interesting, I definitely should check it out at some point”. But this does it. I am starting to watch it this evening.
Read the Books
Easily my favorite battleship design in The Expanse
I love this ship design. The giant engines just make it look like a badass rocket.
Taking out one of these ships was quite a feat and kind of emphasizes what a great design the stealth ships were.
Thank goodness The Expanse was saved by Jeff Bezos and Amazon. Hopefully this INCREDIBLE SHOW will benefit from a higher budget and higher production quality.
They will definitely need the money. The rest of the books need a lot of good CGI.
It might balso get dumbed down to appeal to a broader audience
I still kinda think it should have been Netflix to do that. They got shows like Altered Carbon and The Last Kingdom that do not neccessarily appeal to big audiences are based on books and are actually great. We'll see what Amazon do with the property though.
@@mbnhiphopmusik6429 I agree ... Netflix already has a monopoly over that market and I'm afraid of the show being hindered by it's platform and suffering the fate Nokia's Lumia phones endured
So I'm a bit worried about that, But I mean personally I couldn't give a damn since I live in Transylvania where there's no Netflix nor Amazon so i'll be whatchin on Popcorntime lol
@@mihailazar2487 Not that I'm a big fan of either service but why don't you guys have NetFlix or Amazon in Transylvania? And I'm guessing that's Romania and not Transylvania, Louisiana.
This is a brilliant series that I was unaware of. Frequently pausing to read all the information. Great channel, thx.
The Donnager, the Bismarck of the expanse.
Yamato*
Fixed it for you.
Except the Donnie was killed by state of the art light craft. The Bismarck, by biplanes...
@@TribuneAquila Another day, another brit still salty about HMS Hood..
xD
@@flerrel tbh tho I would be more ashamed if my ship were sunk by planes
I love these videos. They give more info and you get to understand so much more. You guys really helped me love the Expanse by explaining an important part of the show.
2 years later... The season 5 finale brought me back here . Belta Lowda!
Love the touches like the extra hardpoints they make the design and the universe seem much more real. Same thing goes for the un ships being outdated because of politics. In fact the expanse just does a brilliant overall job of making everything about it seem real
Just sitting here holding my breath to see what the series' rendition of Laconian ships will look like.
do not spoil shit my friend
That might take another season before they even approach the plot for that arc of the Expanse. We’ll just have to see, but I’m psyched for when it happens
@@RHICfct don't go in comments then dumbass
People who cry about spoilers are the absolute worst
Mars, but blue
@@downnice95 Dipshits who spoil things in unrelated videos are the worst.
A very well put together video. The pace and projection of your voice are perfect. Almost iconic. I hope the channel takes you far.
Myth: Teflon coating does not improve armor-piercing capability - but it does save wear-and-tear on barrels, and reduce deflections off hard, angled surfaces.
you need depleted uranium tipped rounds for armor piercing, they are illegal in War but that never stopped the US and UK from radiating the shit outta iraq
@@Rudeskie Depleted uranium is not illegal, nor is it particularly radioactive. It is quite toxic though, which has caused many groups to work toward banning or restricting its use.
Totally stoked that you got to work with the expanse team
I wonder if the expanse guys watch this channel frequently.
They do, the do the quality control after all. :D
Probably, but they also sponsor these guys. It's about the money, Lebowski.
@@Th3Nigma For once, they literally pay for the content Spacedock makes. I guess it's an actually fair trade, and I'm quite happy about this lore!
@@StaK_1980 Awesome!
@Mahazama I think Daniel is doing a great gob here. They should really hire him or something. All these tiny details bring more depth and realism.
I really do love to watch your videos about all the space ships from all the different programs and games, especially the ships of The Expanse. This video of the Donnager is one of your best and most thorough description of any ship so far, or at least that I can remember hearing and watching.
I think I'm going to switch one of my Patreion to your channel.
Thank you for your hard work and outstanding imagination in everything you put on your channel.
Hmmm, in Season 5 the Barkeith designation became a supply ship I believe
@@collecter343 was Bobby actually scrapping a Donager class ship? I though it was the same kind as whatever the Pela is.
Still the best Expanse content out there! Thanks for all you do!
Dear Eaglemoss Collections, I hope you're watching this and taking notes! We need an Expanse collection of ships!
I would definitely buy those ships
Eaglemoss ships are coming this year from an article I saw.
Love the detailed breakdown, that you got in contact to make it official is great!
pro tip to others, these videos are great at 90% speed ;P
Surely there would also be a handful of torpedos onboard with multi-megaton yield strategic warheads, ala those that blasted apart Phoebe. A fleet might need such firepower if it has to deal with situation like say, belters illegally moving asteroids into Mars intersect orbit.
I got into this show late and loved it. But I must say after watching this I realized the Donnager class ship is the Willis "Sears" Tower in Chicago. When I look at it now I think Holy Sh*t thats the Donnager?
Wow, look at the fire coming out of those gun barrels in space. Amazing.
Assuming they're traditional powder rounds there would have to be oxygen for detonation to occur to fire the projectile. Logical then you would see fire coming out.
Why wouldn't there be? Look up videos of actual guns being fired in vacuum.
Good work. This was something I didn't know I was waiting for
Love how this video gives the MCRN Warships credit other than the tv series where it was destroyed kinda easily.
Love those ships, glad you made a video on it
Bruv. The DOnnie was killed by like 6 state of the art stealth destroyers. It killed most of them without having ANY intel on them. I would say the Donni put up quiet the fight.
@@bjahava One complaint I have about the fight is how easily the MCRN Marines were overpowered. That shouldn't have happened as the MCRN should have had significantly more than the two remaining destroyers. Especially, if the Donnager class carries Force Recon marines in Goliath power armor like is stated in this video.
@@qfinck The Marines were not activated. By the time Captain Mao realized how fucked they were.. the Donnie had already taken several rail gun rounds. Her crew were dead.
Worry not, we'll be seeing more ships of the same class in action and epic battles in upcoming seasons
I love your delivery of this episode, the MCRN would be proud! Well done!
Love this series. Any chance you’ll be updating it in the future, now that we have new Martian/Free Navy ships and uhh...whatever Duarte and Cortázar are up to?
wow so glad I found this channel. I immediately made a playlist of most of your vids
Literally one minute after upload... noice
I've been waiting for this. Such an awesome design. Really happy you were able to do this series great all around
The Corvette class looks like it's built in Space Engineers-
Fantastic detailed description of such fearsome Tech.
12 minutes long lore about the most powerful ship in (one of) the best hard sci fi of this era
What did we do to deserve this :'(
Thank you for covering ships from this universe! Top notch quality, as always.
NEVER saw this show. Not MUCH gets to us down here! :o(
The best sci-fi series EVER.
This kickass official series earned my sub. Keep up the good work!
Hey Daniel, Have you ever read the excellent series of books called 'The Lost Fleet'? It's descriptions of space combat are rather magnificent, making it into effectively space jousting because of the speeds the ships are moving at.
If you haven't I highly recommend that you pick up the series and give it a shot. I'd love to hear what you think of the ship combat as I believe it's version of space combat makes far more sense than most IP's.
That seems rather wasteful depending on their propulsion technologies. The amount of retro burning and acceleration would heat up the ship to ridiculously high levels and maybe expand all the fuel.
It's often better to perform long distance sensor and recon sweeps, ID a target and then match their relative vector. The the battle becomes more natural, just at super long distances.
@@Nurhaal well with the distances involved in travelling across systems ships have to travel at relatistic speeds, often up to 0.2c or higher. Going at these speeds to cross the system means that slowing down to engage and then speeding up again would waste far more fuel that keeping the speed going and using it in the combat itself.
It makes a lot more sense than ships standing still in a fight or crossing a star system at speeds where fleets closing at each other matching speeds and using fighters.
The books describe it quite well and I believe it makes a lot of sense if you read them and understand it.
@@MrEakieran I'd certainly need to look it up because I'm still not convinced. You stated more reason why fuel consumption is paramount. I'm a modern military enthusiast with strong connections to current technologies and doctrine. When Air Superiority fighters engaged for example, they use their longest ranged weapons first and often at the highest speed capable as that increases range and terminal speeds ( a faster missile is harder to dodge ). The problem is that these attacks only work in Asymmetric situations where the enemy engaged does not have the CM to realize they're being painted and attacked from 100km out. If same or similar standards of weapons platforms were used, even the one with a long ranged bias would likely burn through 3 to 6 missiles to get a single kill. By this time, they're approaching a merge if there are several agents on either side. This similar 'lancing' or 'jousting' is used in IRL with these fighters and the reason a Merge occurred at all is because the constant maneuvers to evade the long distance attacks burn your energy. Since you're way slower, you're forced into a furball and are fighting WVR instead of BVR. Once in WVR, you re constantly fighting physics to give back your speed so you're generally in Afterburner 100% of the time in this situation. At max fuel consumption, most fighters can remain engaged in this manner for mere minutes only before they have to bug out and RTB. The maneuvers that occur are both to try and catch or evade the dogfight, as well as end up in a position where you can still retreat even when Bingo Fuel.
I hope the book addresses this because much like IRL, we thought BVM the new norm, however physical fuel reserves, physics itself and countermeasures ensure that evenly matched opponents will get forced into bloody knife duels and this is why dogfighting is still taught heavily til this day.
I'm going to look it up and see if I can find out what the author uses for this setting.
I'm hoping the book addresses this
I loved the combat and strategy aspects, but the main character spending all his time basically going "How can I reeeeeach these keeeeeeeds" got old after awhile, lol
@@thepsion5 That and the whole *does something worthy of the Black Jack legend*
"I'm not Black Jack, I cant believe they think I am."
i pretty much still waiting for more Freespace stuff on this channel, i really loved that video on the Orion Class destroyer you did a couple years ago and i want MOAR, big fan here and an all time fan of Freespace :D
who would win:
- state of the art martian vessel that is the martian navy's pride
or
- a few nuclear boys
you won't get the nuclear boys even close to the Donnager.
Foxfire Don’t have to be close to do damage - look up the Casaba-Howitzer... nuclear bomb powered directed energy weapons, with ranges that can reach over 1000 km.
- state of the art martian vessel that is the martian navy's pride
VS
-kesla syndrome
Answer
The point defense system lacks plasma core lasers and rail auto cannons. To make things worse her armor is useless against rail gun fire and high velocity space debris. This ship would not survive 5 seconds of kesla syndrome. Even the martian ship designers are idiotic. Not as bad as the UNN or real life space force but that is a very low bar to clear.
You guys seriously put the opening sound bit for Battle Zone II: Combat Commander in the start of your video. Cue hair raising nostalgia moment; you have my FULL attention.