Hello there, the early Model S vehicles were equipped with a battery pack 1.0 featuring a so-called "sand fuse" with an access panel on top. This type of fuse was also installed in later batteries, known as 2.0, which had fuse access from below. The Model X and newer Model S vehicles came with a hybrid battery-powered fuse. These are programmed into the Battery Management System (BMS) and need to be replaced approximately after 5 years. The actual voltage level of the fuse batteries is not measured at all. When the BMS indicates that the fuse needs servicing and if you have a battery warranty, it can be replaced free of charge with the latest type. The latest type is called "hybrid self-powered"; the power for the current measurement circuit and the pyro element comes from a small voltage drop across the fuse. This voltage is then boosted and stored in a small supercapacitor. These fuses never need replacing. I understand that you are the experts, but it is concerning to see you getting so close and leaning next to the exposed terminals of the high-voltage batteries. This presents a false image to the audience that the HV batteries are safe. Please at least wear high-voltage gloves and goggles for safety! Safety should always be the top priority, and demonstrating it helps set the right example for viewers.
does this have anything to do with battery contactor? I got bms_w073 alert, car unable to start. the car drove fine though. also got drive inverter high voltage interlock loop error. service center replaced the battery contactor under warranty. did they need to drop the HV pack to do it?
The battery contactors (2) are the big switches that put the high voltage on to power the car. If you want to replace those, you have to remove the battery pack and open up the rear of the battery where the bms and current sensor are located also
I remember going by the pack swap station prototype at Harris Ranch on I-5. Looked like a bay from a Oil Changers. Drive in and swap the pack in 3-5 minutes. Putting the Superchargers near it make a great juxtaposition showing how Tesla's thinking evolved.
I would guess swap stations are 5-10 times more expensive than a supercharger bank since the station still uses fastchargers for the incoming packs for a fast turnaround plus lots of mechanical workings subject to wear and break downs. I can see why they didn't continue that program with high cost and high maintenance while charging speeds continue to improve making swapping unnecessary.
@@Resist4 Tesla owners by me are reporting about 95% capacity after over 150,000 miles Supercharger charging. They all got free Supercharging for life with their cars so use them often. At least for Teslas, I think the whole battery replacement cost thing is a way overblown.
What a great presentation! Once you tone down the filler word "Ah" from your videos, your presentation skills will be out of this world. This was extremely informative and your ability to explain things is outstanding.
I've been to a lot of engineering meetings, and I'd guess 50% of engineers could upgrade their public speaking skills. Something that's not taught in college.
I was going to leave the same feedback. We subconsciously try to avoid empty space and fill with "ahm", "umm"s. The speaker doesn't notice it but is very annoying to the listener.
The "uhh" filler made the presentation almost too hard to listen to. Simple fix. Anytime you thing you want to say "uhh", just leave a short pause. It will make the overall experience MUCH easier to listen to. I am an engineer, in the industry over 20 years, it's easier to just have short pauses than make noise for no reason.
A well presented and informative presentation, Julian. You are a credit to the Munro team. However, the frequency of the uhs and ahs quickly became annoying. Something to work on for your future videos (of which hopefully there will be many). Kudos, by the way, for only one "You know" at the very end.
I’d appreciate in future videos if you would show side-by-side comparisons to how a pack was to how it is now so as to see the evolution. Just speaking to it does not help with those of us that are very visual in our learning and understanding. I myself had a Tesla Model S P100DL, the predecessor to the Plaid. I think it was the first pack to have a front to back ribbon manifold as opposed to the old serpentine method.
I think, they do this on purpose, so that there is more motivation to buy the way more detailled various reports and compare the photos and drawings from there. These videos are essentially the free sample version with "in-app marketing" for the real deal. 😀
I'm no engineer, let alone an automotive designer or battery expert, but this pack strikes me as much more useful, practical, repairable, and recyclable than the foam saturated 4680 skateboard that you've torn apart in previous episodes.
Actually it’s less… the foam is both more rigid because of adhesion between all cells. Also the foamed batteries are more recyclable because the foam can be melted using a solvent leaving just the metal and plastic components. This X pack has way more flex and way more plastic connectors and spacers. You’re correct about repair ability tho.
@@ramblerandy2397Not entirely true. The foam alone doesn't achieve the increase in stiffness. It was the level of integration of the battery. Other HV-batteries achieve also very high stiffness levels without foam. It is basically a decision between cost and what kind of repairability requirement is set. If done well the battery actually increases the overall vehicle stiffness by a lot...but that ofc comes with a lot of weight.
At 82000 miles my 2016 model X just needed a replacement of the pyrotechnic fuse because batteries low. That early a model required dropping the battery. They later did a cut out so it could be done from below.
When I was in the 6th grade I used to use "you know" in every 2nd or 3rd sentence. Teacher made a fool out of me but it fixed the problem. I am guessing he did this with no more that a list of talking points. Cut him some slack.
Funny i was going to comment the exact opposite, lots humm hammms, 2x made it more palatable. The word structure were also not the best. Its a complex topic, an script would be far more educative. Anyways.
Hey Julian, your presentation was packed with great inter-generational info about Tesla batteries. Thanks for your expertise. Quick tip: try pausing for a sec instead of saying 'uh' or 'um.' I look forward to your next video.
Ummmm aaaahh,ummmm...is unbearable its more than annoying,it's extremely poor communication. Since Sandi knows all,doesn't he know how to communicate...umm,this guy is doing vital also...man...make it a requirement for the job,learn how to speak..Sandi is king annoying g ummm,ahhhh ummm ummmm, aaahhh
@@cengeb It was bad but not quite that bad. I think it would help him to do a 2nd take. Aside from the filler words I think he did well, he didn't look terribly nervous which the filler words lead me to believe. He just needs a bit more practice.
It's not public speaking. This is a presentation. Practice removing verbal fillers is a learned trait and most business degrees have some form in the higher levels....this gentleman most likley is some kind of enginnering degree. Grow up. I'd venture a guess you use quiet a few verbal fillers as well, you just haven't been taught to recognize them or monitor them. Go get a real business degree and take Orgazionationl Consulting and every single project presentation you will get points deducted for verbal fillers...you get real good at avoiding them and learning how to correct your behavior to stop them altogether. Don't believe me...put a presentation together..record yourself..and play it back. Watch how often you fumble and use uh..umm.ahh..if it's more then a few...you failed. The only way to remove them is practice practice practice..your speech.. and have it rehersed...then you need to recognize your ability to speak faster then your brain can create the information...learn to integrate brief pauses for your thoughts to catch up..then convey your material in a controlled slow manner. Don't lose focus and maintain control of the conversation...its a skill your taught and it's always a work in progress. Like I said..grow up.
Julian did a great job taking us through this. He demonstrated his in-depth knowledge and his ability to explain things clearly in a professional and engaging way.
@@Matzes It's OK, it was a 1.7 liter model, I wouldn't do that to a 2.0 liter 6 cylinder! I did the initial conversion in 2008 with lead acid batteries, swapping in the Tesla modules will be half the weight and double the range.
Thanks for the video & your expertise. Ditto for your 'uh' which was very distracting. It takes effort to reduce that tendency, but your videos will really benefit from working on it.
Can we give a shout out to the marketing team at BendPak? Super smart to give Munro a pack, even just for the hopes that they'll mention it. They did mention it, and I would assume that mention will lead to some sales
Morning munro crew! Think it's important to state the model year of the model x, this looks like a pre plaid version with the extrusions and small models. Plastic wrap is... Interesting No inner fasteners. Very happy to see that. Curious to see how it's bussed. Laser weld? Vertical connections for swapping, yup, 2018 or earlier. Kinda jealous it was so easy to remove 😭. Want to see the Porsche. 🥺 Like the hv module assembly, simple, compact. Pyro... Hey, those look like fasteners...*judging*. Internal battery!? Interesting!! Would love to CT that ... The yellow wicking adhesive was a newer upgrade, 2021 and later, likely using the gray thermal or an older thermal paste option. SP? Great job Julian!
@@MunroLive Hello guys, I'm in LA visiting Czinger/Divergent in Torrance. Their 3D printing, design optimization, multiphysical sims and automated assembly look amazing, to me, but I am not a engineer. I would love for you guys to do a deep dive with Kevin and Lucas Czinger. If you're taking requests!
The cutout fuse having it's own battery is obviously great. It works like a modern alarm system. When the mothership stops responding or the airbags go out it is time to blow. If the whole thing is in short, there would be no voltage to cutout. So while i'm being captain obvious here. I would be quite shocked if others didn't do it like this.
They didn't do the battery swap thing just because there wasn't much charging infrastructure back then. Really it had nothing to do with optimizing things for doing that. They did it so that Tesla would qualify for a roughly $120 Million US government grant. At a time when that amount of money was very important to Tesla. Also having an EV that could 'refuel' at the same speed as an ICE car would qualify them for more CARB Credits that they could sell to ICE manufacturers. There was a loophole where the car merely had to be capable of this, the swapping didn't actually need to happen. It was designed for revenue, not to actually be useful. The demonstration swap station only operated for 3 months and was hardly used, it was abandoned when Musk declared that better super charging made swapping irrelevant. "coincidentally" the loophole was also being closed, they would have had to actually show that swapping was happening.
This is misleading. The swap station was active for 1-2 years, not months. While the CA government credits likely were a factor in Tesla pursuing this technology - that was the entire point of that incentive program. There’s no reason to believe that Tesla wasn’t ever serious about experimenting with this approach, nor to believe they wouldn’t have adopted it more broadly if it had worked out. One of many reasons it didn’t work out was because of the need to add a titanium shield under the battery pack in 2014, which undermined the ability to have pack swaps be performed very quickly. The “it was a scam to get government incentives” narrative is a compelling narrative if that’s what you want to believe from the start, but there’s really no evidence to support it. Edit: The pilot program and facility was launched in December 2014, and operational by March 2015. It operated until around November 2016 (exact date of when they stopped taking appointments isn’t documented).
@bhpaddock thanks but you're not just misleading, you're freaking ignorant. Maybe you're using the demonstration of swapping when it was announced as the start of your timer ... without realizing that the only public swapping station opened in March 2015 and closed in June 2015. There's no reason to believe they weren't serious... except for the massive reasons I gave. It helped keep tesla afloat at a time when every million in revenue mattered. And don't put words in my mouth. I didn't call it a scam. They maximized the benefit that was legally available to them, with the minimum required effort.
Not sure why my reply keeps disappearing. Anyway, the facility was documented to be in operation until it was reported in November 2016 that they had stopped taking appointments. There are interviews with people who used it after the mid-2015 timeframe you suggested without evidence that it closed. Maybe it’s the links that are getting my replies removed, so I won’t provide them, but an easy Google search will turn them up.
@@bhpaddock thanks but it's the Googles that are backing me up. ... and it's very interesting that while you've been arguing this, 'someone' changed Wikipedia so that it backs you up. I guess if you can't win with facts, make the facts suit you :)
Consider using a screen prompter; there's an app available for download that can assist with this. Another approach is employing a voice-over explanation-film the relevant areas or use a computer-generated model to synchronize with your voice. While you have the right appearance, addressing nervousness in your delivery is key. Sounding unsure can lead to viewer disinterest and confusion about your message. Confidence in your presentation will likely help maintain audience engagement.
It is present on the 2.0 (and maybe 1.5) S/X battery packs. Referred to as the ancillary unit. It has its own cover that can be opened to service contactors and main BMS.
I would be curious as to what if any degredation there is on an under rated pack? Say a 75KW/hr pack that is really 100kw/hr just limited by software. One would assume that there would be zero range degradation until the pack was just about kaput?
I can understand the total lack of analysis on safety and catastrophic failure based on what companies are likely paying for this teardown. I've never seen a serious teardown where the technical expert failed to mention issues that made them uncomfortable let alone were considered oversights or engineer failures. I would expect phrases like, "we wondered why they chose the xyz material for this design solution" or "we were puzzled why they didn't consider what would happen if so and so occurred after N hours". This presentation seems more like a technical advertisement rather than a well thought out teardown.
Love the technical focus and competence - for improvement, though: as the guy below writes: skip the "Ah´s" - however, not significant compared to the tech yield. KInd Regards, Tom from Denmark
Uber pays $1 a ride if you use an EV. He’s doing 300 miles a day. Assume each ride averages 10 miles means he’s doing 30 rides a day. Using an EV has earned him an additional $30/day. If he is doing 6 days a week of this and assuming at least a week or two of vacation, that’s maybe 300 days a year? 300*300=90000 miles, and says he does 100k miles so my estimate is conservative- but back to point: 300 days times that $30/day is $9000 dollars and pays for that replacement battery.
Imagine , that YOU own the Asset , rather then paying HERTZ to rent a Tesla . simply RENT out your TESLA Robotaxi while you are at HOME / Sleeping . car comes home at 5am to Charge. ready for YOU , to go to work.
Generally I like Tesla's 18650 packs' robust thermal management, but the smaller cooling channel w/o thermal paste (is that right??) is very disappointing. My biggest concern with the 4680s is the longer heat path through the cell almost certainly causing uneven cooling. Tesla definitely gets a "plus one" for serviceability on this pack though. Since Model X is relatively low volume and the tooling is long ago amortized it hardly makes sense for them to shift to casting the battery housing structure until there is a major upgrade to the vehicle, which is long overdue.
From what I understood was that it would have been a doomed idea to be a pioneer at making an EV when no one else would, AND have to commission a custom battery pack or build ur own factory to keep up with the cars. This way tesla avoided many hurdles.
Tesla needs to offer interest free financing on all teslas and battery replacement for life. ( help customer EV anxiety on depresseation, affordability upgrades, and recycling to keep total cost down.)
You meant that Model S versus Audi refueling event!!! I also knew that Tesla designed their own fuse because they wrote it on their own blog early day near 2006…🤔🤔🤔
Can you imagine the income Tesla can generate from battery range increase through software updates? I would pay $2000 to extend my range 25%. Over millions of EV's big money for something that is built in. Tesla is very smart
you could also "rent" it if you go on a trip, just like FSD. kind of cool thinking ,no need to pay for it if you never use it. however if you sale the car or need to go on a trip for some reason just rent/buy it and you've got a long range Tesla permanently or temporarily , very good idea. Also it's easier to make everything identical .
Cell swapping in my opinion is unnecessary. You loose a little capacity just driving and you will loose a little capacity when a cell dies. Most, maybe all EV owners won’t change the entire pack because of a 0.1% loss in capacity. There are already recycling methods that just dump the entire pack into a shredder with special liquids. Considering most battery recycling plants shred the cells anyway, what’s wrong with the entire pack? Battery recycling is still in its early stages and will drastically improve overtime.
Great content, BUT the ahs and ums were distracting. Also, the use of a 3' or so pointer would have helped a lot for the packs on the floor, rather than hand waving.
Correct. They briefly offered a new “Standard Range” Model S a couple months ago which would have been software limited, but they never delivered them and canceled that plan shortly after - instead opting to reduce the price of the LR and Plaid models.
Great video. So who is your “client” who had you tear down all those Tesla batteries. Someone who wanted to learn how to make their own cylindrical packs, like BMW maybe!
It seems the later ones are made on purpose not to be serviceable. The later modern pack is equivalent to welding, gluing a petrol engine together so when something needs repair you need a whole new engine totalling the vehicle. That is the equivalent way latest battery packs have gone. Unexceptible needs skilled serviceability for evs to be viable.
This is said with the best of intentions, You use a lot the “Aaah” to connect thoughts or phrases. Likely given you are aiming to do it on one take. I mention it, given its easy to practice to avoid and iam sure you will avoid it fast just with the mention. Is a bit distracting and will make the audio feel way more fluent and pro.
Have you done a hairpin motor teardown? I'm so curious about the magnets Tesla is using, they said they would not be rare earths, what are they made from?!
Just a question with corrosion...If you live in a high moisture snowy city where you are prone to water, snow, salt kicking up off the ground and onto the under side of your car...how does tesla protect the battery and all the underside from this?
I sure wish a company would split the packs up in the future (maybe into thirds), so you could buy the less range but less weight version, while always retaining the ability to add other modules in later.
It looks like thousands and thousands of laptop batteries connected in series and parallel to me. It will be interesting to see how this compares to the upcoming Cybertruck 4680 battery packs. It should be a much simpler pack with way fewer battery cells. We will all laugh at these super heavy and antiquated battery packs 6-8 years from now. The improvements and lower costs that are coming will be absolutely amazing. We can finally drive the last nail in the ICE coffin.
We will see about that. In the end, optimizing the packs alone will never solve the energy density issue. Only a robust, mass manufacturable alternate chemistry with increased energy density and the same or better other features of the current lithium tech will make EVs a nobrainer.
Model S/X still use 1865 Li cells , 2021 PLAID was Supposed to use 4680 , but Volume was too low. and DEMAND Increasing for Model 3/Y PRFORMANCE w/ Structural battery. and PANASONIC now makes 1865 w/ 25% MORE power in 2023.
@@Harakai100 still known as the same size battery which 18mm wide 65mm long, so technically 65mm long, not 650mm long. And we don’t normally call 2170 batteries 21700 which doesn’t make any sense, it’s a typo.
@@cliftonsr All lithium-ion batteries get their numeric identifiers from their size. In the case of a 18650, (for instance) it's 18mm in diameter and 65mm long. The zero at the end simply means it's cylindrical. A 2170 or a 4680 cell is indeed a 21700 or 46800 cell, It's just Tesla that made the choice to break with the established norm because 2170 sounds better than 21700. Don't be a smartass.
NOPE , NiMh are CRAPPY , dont have enough Charge/Discharge cycles , and MAJOR problem with DENDRITES. its why MOST Electronics w/ built in battery has LION . TESLA in 2023 already IMPROVED the 4680 Li cell , calling it the CYBERCELL f/ the Cybertruck.
Question? What about rust or water getting inside of the battery packs? Another question what about adding another charger port? Instead of swapping battery packs or increasing supercharging?
ZERO rust , ZERO water intrusion. nothing in TRAY or Pack to Rust , POLY cover on Tray , SEALED with Cement . TESLA have Proven , to be able to escape FLOODING by Driving while Submerged. see - RUclips for Submerged TESLA Driving videos.
What I want to know is what happens to the battery modules that are not torn apart? Is Munro using them for energy storage or does the customer takes them?
I have an earlier (#4500) cybertruck preorder. At this point don’t think I will be buying it, at least not for a few years. Would you guys be interested?
Does anyone know if the battery pack can be shunt modded so the current can bypass the controller and go straight to the battery for a hot-rodder who wants full battery power for a few seconds?
Hello there, the early Model S vehicles were equipped with a battery pack 1.0 featuring a so-called "sand fuse" with an access panel on top. This type of fuse was also installed in later batteries, known as 2.0, which had fuse access from below. The Model X and newer Model S vehicles came with a hybrid battery-powered fuse. These are programmed into the Battery Management System (BMS) and need to be replaced approximately after 5 years. The actual voltage level of the fuse batteries is not measured at all. When the BMS indicates that the fuse needs servicing and if you have a battery warranty, it can be replaced free of charge with the latest type. The latest type is called "hybrid self-powered"; the power for the current measurement circuit and the pyro element comes from a small voltage drop across the fuse. This voltage is then boosted and stored in a small supercapacitor. These fuses never need replacing.
I understand that you are the experts, but it is concerning to see you getting so close and leaning next to the exposed terminals of the high-voltage batteries. This presents a false image to the audience that the HV batteries are safe. Please at least wear high-voltage gloves and goggles for safety! Safety should always be the top priority, and demonstrating it helps set the right example for viewers.
I wish I could give this comment more than one like!
does this have anything to do with battery contactor? I got bms_w073 alert, car unable to start. the car drove fine though. also got drive inverter high voltage interlock loop error. service center replaced the battery contactor under warranty. did they need to drop the HV pack to do it?
The battery contactors (2) are the big switches that put the high voltage on to power the car. If you want to replace those, you have to remove the battery pack and open up the rear of the battery where the bms and current sensor are located also
I remember going by the pack swap station prototype at Harris Ranch on I-5. Looked like a bay from a Oil Changers. Drive in and swap the pack in 3-5 minutes. Putting the Superchargers near it make a great juxtaposition showing how Tesla's thinking evolved.
NIO cant Turn a Profit , nor can they GROW , because of Battery Swaps.
I would guess swap stations are 5-10 times more expensive than a supercharger bank since the station still uses fastchargers for the incoming packs for a fast turnaround plus lots of mechanical workings subject to wear and break downs. I can see why they didn't continue that program with high cost and high maintenance while charging speeds continue to improve making swapping unnecessary.
@@SkaBob But faster charging speeds are not good for the battery packs longevity.
@@Resist4 Tesla owners by me are reporting about 95% capacity after over 150,000 miles Supercharger charging. They all got free Supercharging for life with their cars so use them often. At least for Teslas, I think the whole battery replacement cost thing is a way overblown.
A battery swap station requires people to work at it. So it was a no-brainer to do away with that !
What a great presentation! Once you tone down the filler word "Ah" from your videos, your presentation skills will be out of this world. This was extremely informative and your ability to explain things is outstanding.
I've been to a lot of engineering meetings, and I'd guess 50% of engineers could upgrade their public speaking skills. Something that's not taught in college.
I was going to leave the same feedback. We subconsciously try to avoid empty space and fill with "ahm", "umm"s. The speaker doesn't notice it but is very annoying to the listener.
The "uhh" filler made the presentation almost too hard to listen to. Simple fix. Anytime you thing you want to say "uhh", just leave a short pause. It will make the overall experience MUCH easier to listen to. I am an engineer, in the industry over 20 years, it's easier to just have short pauses than make noise for no reason.
Yes I almost lost my mind hearing it so many times.
"Uhhhh!"
other than that, fantastic presentation and analysis! Well done. You'll do great in the future!
You said a lot of "uh" 😂
A well presented and informative presentation, Julian. You are a credit to the Munro team. However, the frequency of the uhs and ahs quickly became annoying. Something to work on for your future videos (of which hopefully there will be many). Kudos, by the way, for only one "You know" at the very end.
I’d appreciate in future videos if you would show side-by-side comparisons to how a pack was to how it is now so as to see the evolution. Just speaking to it does not help with those of us that are very visual in our learning and understanding.
I myself had a Tesla Model S P100DL, the predecessor to the Plaid. I think it was the first pack to have a front to back ribbon manifold as opposed to the old serpentine method.
I think, they do this on purpose, so that there is more motivation to buy the way more detailled various reports and compare the photos and drawings from there. These videos are essentially the free sample version with "in-app marketing" for the real deal. 😀
I'm no engineer, let alone an automotive designer or battery expert, but this pack strikes me as much more useful, practical, repairable, and recyclable than the foam saturated 4680 skateboard that you've torn apart in previous episodes.
All the other packs are optimized for speed of production, not repairability. There’s a reason this pack is in an expensive car.
Remember that a 4680 battery pack is structural. It is not carried like a sack of potatoes, but is a stiff part of the body.
Actually it’s less… the foam is both more rigid because of adhesion between all cells.
Also the foamed batteries are more recyclable because the foam can be melted using a solvent leaving just the metal and plastic components.
This X pack has way more flex and way more plastic connectors and spacers.
You’re correct about repair ability tho.
All Leaf battery packs are modular and they're hardly a premium car.
@@ramblerandy2397Not entirely true. The foam alone doesn't achieve the increase in stiffness. It was the level of integration of the battery.
Other HV-batteries achieve also very high stiffness levels without foam. It is basically a decision between cost and what kind of repairability requirement is set. If done well the battery actually increases the overall vehicle stiffness by a lot...but that ofc comes with a lot of weight.
At 82000 miles my 2016 model X just needed a replacement of the pyrotechnic fuse because batteries low. That early a model required dropping the battery. They later did a cut out so it could be done from below.
Ouch...
Maybe within warranty
Imagine replacing a fuse because the battery of the fuse died lol.
Enjoyed the video! But it reminds me that I really miss watching a complete teardown series from you. Hopefully your Cybertruck arrives soon.
Amazing engineering and manufacturing processes discussed in detail.
From my point of view, it was rather high-level information, that was presented.
@@MooseOnEarth Agree, because I could sort of understand some of it. But they did a good job doing that.
Sorry but had to count them.. 263 "uh" it's a hard habit to break but you will love the way you sound.
Cuz I care :)
When I was in the 6th grade I used to use "you know" in every 2nd or 3rd sentence. Teacher made a fool out of me but it fixed the problem. I am guessing he did this with no more that a list of talking points. Cut him some slack.
Really enjoyed his presentation. He does a good job communicating.
What I didn't like were the "ahhh"... "ahhh"... "ahhh"... other than that, awesome presentation! 👍
Funny i was going to comment the exact opposite, lots humm hammms, 2x made it more palatable. The word structure were also not the best. Its a complex topic, an script would be far more educative. Anyways.
He must have ahh ahh ahh ahhh like 1000 times in this video. I had to stop watching. @@deltajohnny
@@michaelcharachIt's the first Munro video that I have not been able to finish, unfortunately...
Um
It's great to get a look inside and an informed explanation of this tech. You combine facts into knowledge. Thanks team.
🙋♂️🤗THANKS JULIAN GRACE AND THE MUNRO TEAM 🧐😎💚💚💚
Small criticism. When speaking just pause don't say "uhh" repeated or "ahh".. Great content as always.
Hey Julian, your presentation was packed with great inter-generational info about Tesla batteries. Thanks for your expertise.
Quick tip: try pausing for a sec instead of saying 'uh' or 'um.' I look forward to your next video.
I'm sure you are very knowledgible about your subject, but these constant ah, ums, make this video hard to watch out here in the real world. Thanks.
"Uh"
Thank you for the awesome video. It's okay to have dead audio. may be good to practice avoiding filler words like uh um ah etc.
Ummmm aaaahh,ummmm...is unbearable its more than annoying,it's extremely poor communication. Since Sandi knows all,doesn't he know how to communicate...umm,this guy is doing vital also...man...make it a requirement for the job,learn how to speak..Sandi is king annoying g ummm,ahhhh ummm ummmm, aaahhh
@@cengeb It was bad but not quite that bad. I think it would help him to do a 2nd take.
Aside from the filler words I think he did well, he didn't look terribly nervous which the filler words lead me to believe. He just needs a bit more practice.
Dude is JACKED! 💪
Sandy only hires turbo chads.
Julian and Armin compete for best arms
"What we will be talking about in a few weeks here" = Cybertruck?
Hopefully
Always enjoy this channel and Julian knows his business. With that said the uuums and aaahs were killing me and I couldn't finish the video.
It’s awesome seeing new (to us) employees.
It’s going to be interesting to watch their public speaking skills improve over time
That was the nicest way possible to say that.
hopefully part of design steps include design for recycling, especially now with JB back.
Julian has been in tons of videos.
It's not public speaking. This is a presentation. Practice removing verbal fillers is a learned trait and most business degrees have some form in the higher levels....this gentleman most likley is some kind of enginnering degree. Grow up.
I'd venture a guess you use quiet a few verbal fillers as well, you just haven't been taught to recognize them or monitor them. Go get a real business degree and take Orgazionationl Consulting and every single project presentation you will get points deducted for verbal fillers...you get real good at avoiding them and learning how to correct your behavior to stop them altogether. Don't believe me...put a presentation together..record yourself..and play it back. Watch how often you fumble and use uh..umm.ahh..if it's more then a few...you failed. The only way to remove them is practice practice practice..your speech.. and have it rehersed...then you need to recognize your ability to speak faster then your brain can create the information...learn to integrate brief pauses for your thoughts to catch up..then convey your material in a controlled slow manner. Don't lose focus and maintain control of the conversation...its a skill your taught and it's always a work in progress. Like I said..grow up.
Julian did a great job taking us through this. He demonstrated his in-depth knowledge and his ability to explain things clearly in a professional and engaging way.
Not sure if have ever heard so many "uuhhhhh"s in my life. Uhhhh.... uhhhhh uhhhhhhh uuuhhhhhhh aahhhhhhh uuhhhhhhh....
Thanks for the overview of these packs. I'm currently installing 6 Tesla Model S modules into my Porsche 914 electric conversion. Wish me luck!
That's sick
@@Matzes It's OK, it was a 1.7 liter model, I wouldn't do that to a 2.0 liter 6 cylinder! I did the initial conversion in 2008 with lead acid batteries, swapping in the Tesla modules will be half the weight and double the range.
😮🎉
Given the lack of software, correct motors, proper tires, wiring, computer control, etc, your wasting your time.
@@MikesTropicalTech You da man Mike ! Make a video!
Great stuff! Thanks everyone
Thanks for watching!
The UMs and Ahs are extreemly distracting from what otherwise id an excellent presentation
Thanks for the video & your expertise. Ditto for your 'uh' which was very distracting. It takes effort to reduce that tendency, but your videos will really benefit from working on it.
Can we give a shout out to the marketing team at BendPak? Super smart to give Munro a pack, even just for the hopes that they'll mention it. They did mention it, and I would assume that mention will lead to some sales
That BendPak lift looks beefy!
I’m no engineer. But I want sandy in the video as well. Changes the video vibe and quality to greater then expected. 😅
Sandy is busy and can't be in very video.
You just like the exasperation factor and subjective opinions that Sandy generates instantly
Very informative. Good job, Julian!
Great content and presentation however be mindful of saying ‘uh’s and ‘um’s so often
Noted!
And aaah, and then aaaaah, when opened aaaahh, the model x aaaaaahhhh, the high voltage aaaahhh
LFP modules would be fun to see a tear down on and compare.
Uhhhh x 1,500... couldn't finish
wow! awesome stuff! glad 2 see that ya'll are applying that brain juice N elbow grease to all this engineering! good luck Team Munro!
Thank you!
I wonder what newer model x battery packs look like. 2020 would be before the re-design if I am not mistaken.
This video has little relevant to the numerous redesign changes used now.
Morning munro crew!
Think it's important to state the model year of the model x, this looks like a pre plaid version with the extrusions and small models.
Plastic wrap is... Interesting
No inner fasteners. Very happy to see that. Curious to see how it's bussed. Laser weld?
Vertical connections for swapping, yup, 2018 or earlier.
Kinda jealous it was so easy to remove 😭.
Want to see the Porsche. 🥺
Like the hv module assembly, simple, compact.
Pyro... Hey, those look like fasteners...*judging*. Internal battery!? Interesting!! Would love to CT that ...
The yellow wicking adhesive was a newer upgrade, 2021 and later, likely using the gray thermal or an older thermal paste option.
SP?
Great job Julian!
He said a 2020 model X in the beginning.
Actually, he said many times that it was from a 2020 model year. Hard to miss.
Ok. I missed that
here for it. Thanks.
Welcome!
@@MunroLive Hello guys, I'm in LA visiting Czinger/Divergent in Torrance. Their 3D printing, design optimization, multiphysical sims and automated assembly look amazing, to me, but I am not a engineer. I would love for you guys to do a deep dive with Kevin and Lucas Czinger. If you're taking requests!
The cutout fuse having it's own battery is obviously great. It works like a modern alarm system. When the mothership stops responding or the airbags go out it is time to blow. If the whole thing is in short, there would be no voltage to cutout. So while i'm being captain obvious here. I would be quite shocked if others didn't do it like this.
They didn't do the battery swap thing just because there wasn't much charging infrastructure back then. Really it had nothing to do with optimizing things for doing that. They did it so that Tesla would qualify for a roughly $120 Million US government grant. At a time when that amount of money was very important to Tesla. Also having an EV that could 'refuel' at the same speed as an ICE car would qualify them for more CARB Credits that they could sell to ICE manufacturers. There was a loophole where the car merely had to be capable of this, the swapping didn't actually need to happen. It was designed for revenue, not to actually be useful.
The demonstration swap station only operated for 3 months and was hardly used, it was abandoned when Musk declared that better super charging made swapping irrelevant. "coincidentally" the loophole was also being closed, they would have had to actually show that swapping was happening.
Interesting information. Musk had to be smart to become richest person in the world.
This is misleading. The swap station was active for 1-2 years, not months. While the CA government credits likely were a factor in Tesla pursuing this technology - that was the entire point of that incentive program. There’s no reason to believe that Tesla wasn’t ever serious about experimenting with this approach, nor to believe they wouldn’t have adopted it more broadly if it had worked out. One of many reasons it didn’t work out was because of the need to add a titanium shield under the battery pack in 2014, which undermined the ability to have pack swaps be performed very quickly.
The “it was a scam to get government incentives” narrative is a compelling narrative if that’s what you want to believe from the start, but there’s really no evidence to support it.
Edit: The pilot program and facility was launched in December 2014, and operational by March 2015. It operated until around November 2016 (exact date of when they stopped taking appointments isn’t documented).
@bhpaddock thanks but you're not just misleading, you're freaking ignorant. Maybe you're using the demonstration of swapping when it was announced as the start of your timer ... without realizing that the only public swapping station opened in March 2015 and closed in June 2015.
There's no reason to believe they weren't serious... except for the massive reasons I gave. It helped keep tesla afloat at a time when every million in revenue mattered.
And don't put words in my mouth. I didn't call it a scam. They maximized the benefit that was legally available to them, with the minimum required effort.
Not sure why my reply keeps disappearing.
Anyway, the facility was documented to be in operation until it was reported in November 2016 that they had stopped taking appointments. There are interviews with people who used it after the mid-2015 timeframe you suggested without evidence that it closed.
Maybe it’s the links that are getting my replies removed, so I won’t provide them, but an easy Google search will turn them up.
@@bhpaddock thanks but it's the Googles that are backing me up.
... and it's very interesting that while you've been arguing this, 'someone' changed Wikipedia so that it backs you up.
I guess if you can't win with facts, make the facts suit you :)
Good one
Thanks
The sheet on top of the battety cover, under the plastic sheet, is a fire blanket. 7:00
Can't wait to see the model 2 battery pack, it will be very interesting to see cost reduction with model 2.
Consider using a screen prompter; there's an app available for download that can assist with this. Another approach is employing a voice-over explanation-film the relevant areas or use a computer-generated model to synchronize with your voice. While you have the right appearance, addressing nervousness in your delivery is key. Sounding unsure can lead to viewer disinterest and confusion about your message. Confidence in your presentation will likely help maintain audience engagement.
thanks 4 video!
Our pleasure!
ii have been using 2 model S battery modules to charge Emotorcycle / power appliances and in my RV for 4 years of daily use
where is Sandy?? No one can replace the legendary Sandy Munro
He's in meetings.
Don't need Sandy for every presentation.
At "the end of the day" --- all the team members are fantastic....
Is the contactor/high voltage unit new? that wasn't present on old battery packs (?). Its a cool unit.
It is present on the 2.0 (and maybe 1.5) S/X battery packs. Referred to as the ancillary unit. It has its own cover that can be opened to service contactors and main BMS.
Great video. Tesla packs often have a letter designating the design iteration. I believe the current generation is "J". What version is this pack?
I would be curious as to what if any degredation there is on an under rated pack? Say a 75KW/hr pack that is really 100kw/hr just limited by software. One would assume that there would be zero range degradation until the pack was just about kaput?
Would be neat if they took the active charger out of the center of he range. Say 10% to 90%.
kWh
Not "per hour."
“Uhh”
Had to stop watching was distracted by Uhh
I could not finish the video...
Those moobs 😂 😂😂
I can understand the total lack of analysis on safety and catastrophic failure based on what companies are likely paying for this teardown. I've never seen a serious teardown where the technical expert failed to mention issues that made them uncomfortable let alone were considered oversights or engineer failures. I would expect phrases like, "we wondered why they chose the xyz material for this design solution" or "we were puzzled why they didn't consider what would happen if so and so occurred after N hours". This presentation seems more like a technical advertisement rather than a well thought out teardown.
Thanks, really enjoyed the content, much appreciated
Thanks!
No problem!
19:31 What has caused the staining on the battery pack? Has the water sealing failed?
Love the technical focus and competence - for improvement, though: as the guy below writes: skip the "Ah´s" - however, not significant compared to the tech yield. KInd Regards, Tom from Denmark
Uber pays $1 a ride if you use an EV. He’s doing 300 miles a day. Assume each ride averages 10 miles means he’s doing 30 rides a day. Using an EV has earned him an additional $30/day. If he is doing 6 days a week of this and assuming at least a week or two of vacation, that’s maybe 300 days a year? 300*300=90000 miles, and says he does 100k miles so my estimate is conservative- but back to point: 300 days times that $30/day is $9000 dollars and pays for that replacement battery.
Imagine , that YOU own the Asset , rather then paying HERTZ to rent a Tesla .
simply RENT out your TESLA Robotaxi while you are at HOME / Sleeping .
car comes home at 5am to Charge. ready for YOU , to go to work.
Generally I like Tesla's 18650 packs' robust thermal management, but the smaller cooling channel w/o thermal paste (is that right??) is very disappointing. My biggest concern with the 4680s is the longer heat path through the cell almost certainly causing uneven cooling. Tesla definitely gets a "plus one" for serviceability on this pack though.
Since Model X is relatively low volume and the tooling is long ago amortized it hardly makes sense for them to shift to casting the battery housing structure until there is a major upgrade to the vehicle, which is long overdue.
15:05 It’s a common misconception that the fuse is mid pack and removing it halves the pack voltage. Removing the fuse splits the pack to 14s and 2s.
It just seems like it would be more efficient to use fewer large custom cells rather then like 10,000 off the shelf flashlight batteries.
From what I understood was that it would have been a doomed idea to be a pioneer at making an EV when no one else would, AND have to commission a custom battery pack or build ur own factory to keep up with the cars. This way tesla avoided many hurdles.
what is with the browning color ontop of the battery? is that corrosion or heat wear?
those are the Individual FUSES.
ONE for each Cell.
It's just not Munro without Munro.
its Munro & Associates
Tesla needs to offer interest free financing on all teslas and battery replacement for life. ( help customer EV anxiety on depresseation, affordability upgrades, and recycling to keep total cost down.)
You meant that Model S versus Audi refueling event!!! I also knew that Tesla designed their own fuse because they wrote it on their own blog early day near 2006…🤔🤔🤔
Very good, thank you.
Our pleasure!
Can you imagine the income Tesla can generate from battery range increase through software updates? I would pay $2000 to extend my range 25%. Over millions of EV's big money for something that is built in. Tesla is very smart
you could also "rent" it if you go on a trip, just like FSD. kind of cool thinking ,no need to pay for it if you never use it. however if you sale the car or need to go on a trip for some reason just rent/buy it and you've got a long range Tesla permanently or temporarily , very good idea. Also it's easier to make everything identical .
What's wrong with aluminum extrusions? I always hear them mentioned as bad in Munro videos but I don't get why. Isn't it faster and more consistent?
I like this design that fact you could swap out dead packs and them being smaller should keep the cost down
Module swapping isn't that simple smh. Do the research it takes a LOT to properly match a different ev module to an existing pack.
Cell swapping in my opinion is unnecessary. You loose a little capacity just driving and you will loose a little capacity when a cell dies. Most, maybe all EV owners won’t change the entire pack because of a 0.1% loss in capacity.
There are already recycling methods that just dump the entire pack into a shredder with special liquids. Considering most battery recycling plants shred the cells anyway, what’s wrong with the entire pack? Battery recycling is still in its early stages and will drastically improve overtime.
as @4literv6 said, it turns out that in real live swapping modules out is insanely difficult to get right and not ruin the pack.
model S/X battery packs are NO LONGER Serviceable , and Maintenance FREE.
@@battery_wattage Maybe 20 years to get enough deceased batteries to hit scale.
Great content, BUT the ahs and ums were distracting. Also, the use of a 3' or so pointer would have helped a lot for the packs on the floor, rather than hand waving.
Your information on software limited packs is outdated. They aren’t doing that and all S and X continue to have a single pack since the 2021 refresh.
Is the 2023 Model X battery pack significantly different than the 2020 pack explained here?
@@mini2nut67 Yes, it is.
Correct. They briefly offered a new “Standard Range” Model S a couple months ago which would have been software limited, but they never delivered them and canceled that plan shortly after - instead opting to reduce the price of the LR and Plaid models.
Interesting stuff! Anyone recognise the black car in the background? Looks nice!
Nice watch!
Pls allow a "Sandy Summary" with appropriate salty language. Gotta let these young engineers let loose a little.
"uhhh... Uh..... Uuuhhhh"
Dude, stop with the "Uhhh..."
excellent
Cheers.
Great video. So who is your “client” who had you tear down all those Tesla batteries. Someone who wanted to learn how to make their own cylindrical packs, like BMW maybe!
Bravo.......ok u punchate with " A. "...........to many a's............battery stuff great........cheers
Cheers
It seems the later ones are made on purpose not to be serviceable. The later modern pack is equivalent to welding, gluing a petrol engine together so when something needs repair you need a whole new engine totalling the vehicle. That is the equivalent way latest battery packs have gone. Unexceptible needs skilled serviceability for evs to be viable.
This is said with the best of intentions,
You use a lot the “Aaah” to connect thoughts or phrases. Likely given you are aiming to do it on one take.
I mention it, given its easy to practice to avoid and iam sure you will avoid it fast just with the mention.
Is a bit distracting and will make the audio feel way more fluent and pro.
Have you done a hairpin motor teardown? I'm so curious about the magnets Tesla is using, they said they would not be rare earths, what are they made from?!
Is the black sport car in the back a Taycan?
Yes it is! We'll have a couple videos on it soon.
Just a question with corrosion...If you live in a high moisture snowy city where you are prone to water, snow, salt kicking up off the ground and onto the under side of your car...how does tesla protect the battery and all the underside from this?
Air tight seal , cars no good if it cuts out when you go through a puddle. 😮
Tesla: A $75k+ cell phone -dispossible.
After the 10,000,000,000TH "uh", i had to click away 😭
I sure wish a company would split the packs up in the future (maybe into thirds), so you could buy the less range but less weight version, while always retaining the ability to add other modules in later.
But mainframe would have to be reinforced to carry the heaviest version and hence light versions wouldn't be as lightweight as they could be.
NO NEED TO, since All models going to Structural battery pack & NON Serviceable.
BONUS , the Battery pack LASTS the Life of the car.
It looks like thousands and thousands of laptop batteries connected in series and parallel to me.
It will be interesting to see how this compares to the upcoming Cybertruck 4680 battery packs. It should be a much simpler pack with way fewer battery cells.
We will all laugh at these super heavy and antiquated battery packs 6-8 years from now. The improvements and lower costs that are coming will be absolutely amazing. We can finally drive the last nail in the ICE coffin.
the 2021 PLAID S was supposed to have 4680 , but supply was too short.
We will see about that. In the end, optimizing the packs alone will never solve the energy density issue. Only a robust, mass manufacturable alternate chemistry with increased energy density and the same or better other features of the current lithium tech will make EVs a nobrainer.
Are these batteries 1865 or 2170?
18650
@@Harakai100 Thank you
Model S/X still use 1865 Li cells , 2021 PLAID was Supposed to use 4680 , but Volume was too low.
and DEMAND Increasing for Model 3/Y PRFORMANCE w/ Structural battery.
and PANASONIC now makes 1865 w/ 25% MORE power in 2023.
@@Harakai100 still known as the same size battery which 18mm wide 65mm long, so technically 65mm long, not 650mm long. And we don’t normally call 2170 batteries 21700 which doesn’t make any sense, it’s a typo.
@@cliftonsr All lithium-ion batteries get their numeric identifiers from their size. In the case of a 18650, (for instance) it's 18mm in diameter and 65mm long. The zero at the end simply means it's cylindrical. A 2170 or a 4680 cell is indeed a 21700 or 46800 cell, It's just Tesla that made the choice to break with the established norm because 2170 sounds better than 21700. Don't be a smartass.
For pyro fuse battery, isnt it possible it pulls power from other battery like a 12v gets power from an alternator
Nickel metal hydride batteries are also good option they should be researched and improved upon.
Those have been around for 20+ years. Is there really anything more than can be done with them?
NOPE , NiMh are CRAPPY , dont have enough Charge/Discharge cycles , and MAJOR problem with DENDRITES.
its why MOST Electronics w/ built in battery has LION .
TESLA in 2023 already IMPROVED the 4680 Li cell , calling it the CYBERCELL f/ the Cybertruck.
Question?
What about rust or water getting inside of the battery packs?
Another question what about adding another charger port? Instead of swapping battery packs or increasing supercharging?
ZERO rust , ZERO water intrusion.
nothing in TRAY or Pack to Rust , POLY cover on Tray , SEALED with Cement .
TESLA have Proven , to be able to escape FLOODING by Driving while Submerged.
see - RUclips for Submerged TESLA Driving videos.
What I want to know is what happens to the battery modules that are not torn apart? Is Munro using them for energy storage or does the customer takes them?
Ah..... Ah..... Ah..... Ahm..... Ahhh.... Ahhhhhh..... Ahhhhhh!!!
Looks like a 911 Taycan/*INSERT NAME HERE* in the back...
uh... uh... uh... um... uh... um... uh...
Ahmm, ahmm, ahmmm
I have an earlier (#4500) cybertruck preorder. At this point don’t think I will be buying it, at least not for a few years. Would you guys be interested?
Does anyone know if the battery pack can be shunt modded so the current can bypass the controller and go straight to the battery for a hot-rodder who wants full battery power for a few seconds?
Uuuuuuuuhhhhhhh
Don’t think the pyro fuse has it’s own battery. Must be the initiator and piston that destroys the connection.