I had 2 x 10" and a 12" Klipsch subs and floorstanding speakers with side firing subwoofers and the sound is out of this world and better than any commercial cinema I have visited, another fact that doesn't get mentioned very often and that is lifting your subs up off the floor and from personal experience it does make a difference. So technically I had a 11.5 surround system. I have since moved house and no longer have the room for the same setup. Having more subwoofers allows you to keep the volume down lower on each sub so you don't stress the drivers to much, trust me, my old system would vibrate the concrete floors of a two storey house. So what Youthman is saying in this video is absolutely "TRUE".
Hey Youthman another great tutorial. Very valuable, and useful information given. LOVE how you use the graphs during your tutorials. To be able to physically see the sound peaks, and valleys is a lot more effective that just communicating decibel, and hertz numbers. The way you present your tutorials makes it easy to follow along, and understand them. Great work brother!
Hi Youthman, another great video! On this subject, nobody discusses the benefits of elevating the subwoofers. Aside from proper placement, I bought some stands that are made for subwoofers and it made a world of difference. I heard less house rattling and the bass sounded smoother. I raised them about 10 inches higher. I was so happy when I discovered that. In your setup, Youthman, I see that your speaker and subwoofer placement are all elevated, so everything must sound phenomenal.
I built 12" risers for my 3 Klipsch subs [5 years ago] best idea ever, it tightens up the bass and made an immediate improvement. I had 2 subs at the back of the room and one sub up the front plus the floorstanding speakers had side firing subwoofers so the bass was out of this world, hearing is believing.
@@lorindamikaela That is so cool! I'm glad you shared your story because not many people know about this, nor would they believe that it makes that much of a difference, but it does. Did you put rubberized feet on your stands? Mine came factory made like that and it helps. Thanks for sharing!
@@rafaelruiz-tagle358 - I made my risers out of MDF so they were a box with carpet covering it to make it look nice and the box had a couple of inches of sand inside to help absorb vibrations and I glued a 2 inch acoustic foam covering the whole of the bottom of the box, this was my own idea and design, next time I want to lift the subs higher off the floor. I did read many years ago online of a guy who experimented with many different positions for multiple subs and found lifting them up high off the floor closer to the roof made the biggest improvements but that wouldn't be the best look but if you are not concerned about looks then that is probably worth a try, any speaker lifted off the floor just a few inches improves the sound, I've been lifting all my speakers off the floor for many years now simply because it works. Often it's the small tricks and ideas that make the most noticeable improvements and it's usually the cheapest way. I now live in a smaller house and don't have the room to have my full setup even though I now own 4 Klipsch subs [2x 10" & 2x 12"] with multiple subs you don't need to turn the sub volume up high to get an impressive effect that vibrates the concrete floors. The old saying "more is better", well when it comes to subwoofers that is the case !!!
Very educational and easy to follow video, thanks Michael. I've done some playing around in REW and it's such an in depth program that sometimes it's hard to know where to start. Videos like this are definitely helpful. 2 is always better than 1!
Youthman, nice video. We need to shelve the response below 40hz to match the rest of the bass frequencies. We should sweep up higher to ensure good integration with your mains. Also need to move one of your subs since they are so closely spaced they are acting like 1 super sub with a slight increase in modal density. Need to measure all your seats...mDSP will solve all of your problems. BTW, a high Q LF dip like that is unusual from a single bass source. Did you have Audyssey engaged when you took those measurements?
I was about to comment saying: According to Gene at Audioholics, he would say two subs are too close together and would benefit from moving one further away to spread out the bass and flatten out that dip. Then I read his comment. BTW, love your setup Youthman. I would hate to spoil the aesthetic of you room by moving one subwoofer but, it takes what it takes I guess. Also a big shout out to Gene at Audioholics! Love both of your channels. Audioholics, Youthman, Joe n Tell, Sparechange - I'm a subscriber to all. Got me to where I am today with a super 5.2 setup with 2x British BK Monolith Plus subwoofers with MiniDSP 2x4 and a Denon XT32 amp. Now that you guys are all friends, you should go on over to each others places to pimp out the space where one is lacking from the others. Audio, lighting, Cameras, streaming etc. Its all in the name of greatness! KEEP IT UP, all of you guys! Peace.
interesting concept, im currently looking to work on my sub set up this video is good insight. with your history and experience i might be about to but both together and get a better idea what i need to do and what direction i need. i be buying another amp to get at least 1000rms to the sub, but the same amp can do 1550 rms which is closer to the pb16 spec i might settle for 1200rms because its 1db difference from 1500rms
Thanks Gene. Audyssey was turned off for these measurements. I have always had that dip, almost everywhere I place a sub in my room. Not sure what is causing that.
Great video, as usual. I have a question. After analyzing your room acoustics, how do you flatten the response? Do you use the equalizer that comes with the Marantz or do you use mini DSP? I’m considering buying one of those boxes, but if you have a better solution, it’s worth trying before spending some money. The problem in my room is that after running Audyssey with two subs, I get +3/-3dB from 25 to 90 hz , which is pretty flat, but the transient response in some frequencies feels uneven in the main listening position (more vibration on one cheek than the other, if you know what I mean). Each sub is at the same distance from the listening position, but maybe one sub reinforces some frequencies more than others, achieving the “global” flat response, but uneven transient response. Maybe if I flatten the sub’s response individually and then use Audyssey for a “global” calibration, It may solve my problem, but my receiver doesn’t have individual control for each sub, that’s why I want to know how do you flatten the response of the subs after analyzing the acoustics. Thanks in advance! It would be great to do a collab someday. Great channel.
A good beginners video to illustrate the advantages of two subs but the response shows real problem in not just the low q null but from 40hz all the way up to 100hz+. Perhaps spreading the subs further apart would have better results higher up in the frequency range.
Thanks Youthman Dude! I have been waiting on this video for a long time. I was always curious how well the PB16's did up there behind your screen. Looks like they perform well! Great video!
2x PB-3000's or 1x PB 16? Been going back and forth on this for a month now! Pairing with Klipsch PR-208F (Each Tower has 2x 8" Woofers), PR-450C Center, 4 Ceiling Speakers Use Case is 50/50 Music vs HT, Open Floor Plan living room. Another consideration is 2x SB-3000. Sealed, save money and space, tighter for music. Thanks for all your great work, Youthman!
Hey Youthman. Your dual subwoofer set-up is like mine with both up front. Neither of us is getting the benefit of having multi subs. Gene from Audioholics touched on this in a recent video. In order to benefit from 2 subs, we would need to follow Dr. Floyd Toole's recommendation of midwall placement - front wall and back wall are the ideal.
I moved to SC and got married and my wife had been using the TV speakers for 50 years. Well, that's about to change... we now have a 7.2.2 Atmos system. My 1 sub is a 12" Velodyne I bought 20 years ago and remains to be a beast of a sub. Lord have mercy it is amazing. This sub will take on the bottom end from 80 to 20mhz. Glad they're coming back w Deep Blue. My other sub is a 10" Klipsch that will take on the upper range of the bass freqs from 80 to 120mhz. In my space this will allow each sub to handle limited duties while maintaining the SPL. In the new Top Gun 2 movie explosions start loud and remain until dropping off at the 30 to 20mhz. With just the 1 sub trying to do a larger freq range distortion kills the boom. My 2 cents....
Each to their own, ported are larger but have better output and generally handle lower frequencies better.... im putting 2 12inch ported Krix subs in my place.
Lilboots thanks for the reply. I have two Klipsch sw112 subwoofers. They offer a lot of output. However as of today I purchased two Klipsch C-310 sealed triple subwoofers. I must say the ported subs have greater output but for some reason the sealed sounds cleaner and balanced if that makes any sense. Now I don’t know which I should keep. The ported or the sealed.
@@bltodd578 yea its always hard, you just need to hear them and choose what suits you. I heard and honestly felt the power of sealed subwoofers but when watching Transformers and switching back and forth.... ported was for me. Im in the process of my first dedicated home theatre room (7.3 x 4.2m) using all Krix and Anthem gear, and cant wait. $29.5k system all up (im single) But thats the joys of your own home theatre, you can make it perfect for you
I run (4) 15" Velodyne subs up front on the outsides of my L&R front speakers. There are no dead spots in the room at all now but it did require a lot of tweaking with the sub's phase controls. The bass would cancel out if the phase controls were set wrong. I just used my ears to set them correctly.
@@Youthman I played a bass-heavy song and used my ears when adjusting the phase on each sub. There was a huge difference when it was adjusted correctly.
You know youth man this video was absolutely awesome! I've seen other things that you have done and others as well and thought that would be a pretty good idea for me to do but never have yet done it. After physically seeing what your subs do individually as well as collectively I'm absolutely convinced and pumped I'm going to bite the bullet and buy the microphone and find out for myself how each one of my pb3000 perform individually as well as a pair.
Ghost Recon never tried those but my 2004 def tech towers are still killing it. I could even argue they have some more punch the 9060 although not as clean sounding and much less aesthetic. So I’m sure 8060s are great
I used to have the huge deftech towers with 18" shallow depth subs in it. I will say they are no where even close to a separate big sub. Not even remotely close. You should consider adding a sub (2 actually) thank me later. Your movie experience would be greatly improved.
Vinny Diesel my room would explode buddy. Got 4 total towers. It’s more than enough and it goes down to 19hz. You have to be really next level to need more.
@@BirdManCinema Trust me, there is a whole other level you can experience. Going to 19hz is one thing, doing it at over 105db is another. The only thing that truly matters is that you are happy, and I think you are there.
I've been doing systems for 30 years and experience has taught me that quadruple setups are the best, at least for me. 1- more coil for daily abuse 2-more SD surface area of cone with same airspace available. Eg 4tens in 5cubes instead of 1 15. 3- power compression cut in 1/4 plus better responsiveness for music using multiple smaller coils to spread the heat, improving performance 4- of course the smoothing out of response as well
I have a Klipsch RP 1400SW on the front, in between one RF 7 III and the central RC 64III. I was thinking on getting another sub, but I'm open to comments and suggestions. What do you think would fit best? another 1400SW on the back (behind the sofa), or getting a 16" model and moving the 14" behind the sofa? Thanks!
Good video! It looks like the sharp dips in the 40's are due to out-of-phase reflections from approx. 6ft away. Could you have addressed these by placing cushions between the subs and the nearest wall?
I got my front speakers built and when im building my subs i think im going to use 2 of the Dayton Audio DCS450-4 18" subs with built in amps in a ported configuration. Trying to be budget friendly and still get good lows.
YOUTHMAN! You missed my birthday, but I'll forgive that, HAHA! I've finally started getting my subs dialed in. With DIY it can be tricky but it's worth it when it all comes together. I need to do another tour video on my YT channel because a lot has changed. It's nothing TOO crazy but I've finally gotten within 3dB of 130dB at my MLP and pretty rock solid response. Multiple subs are definitely the way to go. As Gene of Audioholics once said, 2 is better than 1, 4 is better than 2! I'm right at 9 and their response is pretty awesome, I just need to continue flattening that graph. Love your videos, as always, can't wait for the next installment!
vipin das I too have dual PB3000 and use 80Hz crossover. This video is great but I have the Antimode Dual Core 2.0 which interprets the best positions for me. Almost needless to say the best positions weren't where I planned on putting them initially but they do sound epic now with a very flat response throughout the lower frequency range. 😃
@@paulsouth2164 I have only single Klipsch R -115SW with Anti-mode 8033S-II and my honest opinion is that without that anti-mode, that Klipsch would NOT sound this good as it sounds now...Anti-mode is truly worth buying..And the best part is, that anti-mode is made here in Finland.. ;D
Awesome video man! This definitely shows the differences between single and dual. I used to run duals and now a single sub (until I get another one) and it’s definitely evident in certain seating area where I’m hitting nulls
You need to work on flatten out that graph. It's nice to have high volume from 10-50Hz, but after that you dip again. Run Audyssey and play with the phase and you might flatten out that graph :)
I just got a pb-4000 and put it where I had my sb-2000. In all modes, using different sources, walking around the room and before/after calibration, the sub sounds weaker than the 2000 especially in the very low frequencies. It almost sounds like a high pass filter is on. Do you (or anyone reading this) know if it just has to break in or is there something wrong with my pb-4000? Also, can I use these two subs together for a duel setup?
@@Youthman Bit of an update. I talked with SVS. They said to leave it in sealed mode and turn it up to -10 (My 4500H wanted it at -22). It hits harder now, but I'm still not a fan of how it sounds in my room-which is fairly small btw. So I plan to return it and get 3 more sb-2000 and put in the corners of my room. I think I'll be able to get the lower bass response I want plus smooth out and peaks and valleys.
Another great video, but to totally prove this you would have to EQ each single. Most likely that dip is being caused by your EQ since it is expecting the output from the other one to be there. I do however think, less subs are better said NOBODY! :) I see in later posts its mentioned that Audyssey ws off, not sure about the internal DSP. Good stuff.
For sure all depends on whether the subs were measured with x32 on or off, and even then you can get strange results. Best way is using a MiniDsp connect to computer through usb and bypass the receiver all together. You can go a step further and eq both subs independently pre-audyssey. You will get a flatter response making lifer easier for audyssey and will also allow for a higher gain in the subs.
great video, which program do you use? and where you can get it; It would be great if you made a video about that program and the tools needed to calibrate the room.
When running duel subs should I lower the levels for sub output or lower the gain on the actual sub? I've only just got a second sub so new to this and trying to set up right.
I have 2 PB2000 now, is it possible in the future to get 2 16ultra and put them in the front and keep the PB2000 in the back in the room ? will it be hard to blend together ? thanks you great videos
Hey Youthman! You should test DALI's 14" subwoofer K14F, 500 watt max. I work in a Hi-Fi store and I was really surprised with K14F as he can be compared with bigger subs. Love your videos as always! 😊 (watching them while working 😀)
Awesome information!!!!!! Thanks for sharing. When do you need to run one subwoofer out of phase in a dual setup? Other than testing it, when is it needed or not? Thanks
My understanding is when they are in different locations (like one on the drone wall and one on the side wall). REW will allow you to easily see if changing phase makes a difference
Love this video!!! Can you make a video about using the EQ in the pb 16 to also assist with the frequency response? I have a pb 4000 and am looking to add a second one but I wanna get a handle on REW before I take the plunge and just learn with one for now. I can’t be the only one who wants to see a video like that. If u already have one I apologize
Because every room will provide a different frequency response. Most companies show measurements from ground plane (in an open field where there are no reflective surfaces for sound to bounce off of) or in an Anechoic chamber (again no reflections).
I would have loved if this test was done with a single subwoofer but located in the center, not on the far left or far right. I wonder if the null would be different with a subwoofer in the center. I still believe in stereo subwoofers.
Does this correction software make any appreciable gains if you have 2 subs that are parallel connected vs just 1? I'm assuming any EQ connection will apply to both subs rather independent corrections to either sub.
You have always do these REW videos with all the settings "reseted"..with Audyssey turned off....but it would be really interesting to see what that graphics would look like when the Audyssey is turned on and all the settings like you put them when you watch a movie....or was this with made with Audyssey turned on?
I can see having REW on if I’m only measuring one sub but definitely needs to be turned off when comparing two subwoofers since Audyssey will EQ for the sub.
@@Youthman yes but that's what i meant, would like to see how Audyssey would effect when it EQs those subs.. How flat it would make that graph... Or do you mean that Audyssey would increase certain frequensys too much...?
Again a very interesting vidéo. 👍🏼. I m in the process of buying a subwoofer. And i have Téo choises. First one is the Svs PB 300 at a Canadian price of $ 1849.00. The second one is the sealed Paradigm Studio Sub 15 at a Canadian price of $ 1998.00 and It s a deal price. The real cost of the Paradigm is $ 4099.00 Canadian. I know the Svs subs are one of a kind but for almost the same price , should i go whith the Paradigm ?????? Thanks for ur help 👍🏼.
I have what may be a silly question but when you run the microphone are you do you only have your subwoofers on and all the other speakers off or how do you go about doing all of that. I just got the mini DSP mic and I'm trying to learn what's going on
Hi James, I run it in Stereo so just the mains and the sub when I run REW tests. The mains are crossed over at 80Hz so there isn’t much overlap in the frequency response
Hey Youthman. I have my first sub a Kef kube 10b. I will be getting a second one, my question is do I have to invert the phase of one of the subs. Or can the phase of both be zero.
Great idea for the video. See if you can't borrow 2 more. See what happens when you add a 3rd and then a 4th.. Night the reality is most have a hard enough time putting a 5.1 setup in their rooms.... Let alone attempt a 11.4
My major question is did it sound any different besides looking at graphs? Is it something you actually notice in the real world verse looking at a graph?😎🤗
I've just added a second subwoofer in the only empty space I had, behind my couch and besides my PC Desk (my room is a home theater/office) it shakes the seats while watching movies and playing videogames!!! (I don't play games on my PC btw)
Great video. 2 questions: 1. Did you run the Marantz room correction before any measurements and if not would it haved helped with those dips? 2. Is it best to either daisy chain or use a y splitter to connect 2 subs to act as one sub to the processor or is it better to connect them both to the processor separately (if you have that option) to process them individually?
Hi Michael please could you reply me Sir. I'm anticipating an upgrade to my system. Questio is: Should I get a pair of svs sb4000s or should I just add one more svs sb3000 because currently I've got two svs sb3000s. NOTE: sb4000 has a start of 1200 watts so a pair would be 2,400 watts. The sb3000 start at 800 watts so three would be 2,400 watts. I'm sure you know these specs far more than I do. I mainly listen to music. Thank you Sir.
Just bought another svs 16 ultra. Also changed my receiver from Marantz to an Anthem. Man no comparison. I'll put another video up when I put on my jbl synthesis
This was a very informative video, thank you! This made me decide to get a second subwoofer, but I don’t know which one to get. You have any recommendations for subs on a lower budget?
Hi Youthman! Im making a small home theater right now. Is there any way i can chat with you about how i setup my room for the acoustic foams and some wools
I noticed when you did the left and right of your subwoofers you were at 100 DB 105 + on your tests. When I'm in my pb3000 I was at like 95 to just under a hundred. I'm wondering if that's just because of you having the Ultra Series or what was such a difference in the DB level when running the test?
Hi Youthman! I already run dual subs, and they are perfectly aligned and everything. They are Elac S12EQs and REW says they are flat from 20-80Hz. However, I recently watched Shazam! on iTunes (with Atmos), and during the first scene ( from Minute 4:00) when the Seven Deadly Sins talk, I get a very strange rumbling noise. It doesn't sound clean. Now I'm wondering, whether my subs are acting up, or whether there is something strange going on with that Scene in the Soundtrack....if you have the Movie, can you perhaps check that out?
@@jmart21 It isn't the drivers, I don't turn it up that loud...maybe it's the Laminate floor or something else. The Elacs have passive downfiring drivers...and they are pumping a lot of air in that scene...I will have to check whether that is what happens
@@jmart21 Ok, so I looked for shaking in the floor pr cabinets...but that doesn't seem to be it. It actually seems like the subs are "too slow" and are lagging behind the sound, creating a kind of bass echo when the statues speak. I can clearly feel it if I put my hand on the sub... it's always a bit late. Either the Soundtrack is just made that way, or something is wrong...
@@rolandrohde I'm no audio engineer, I wonder if your main drivers are maxing out and then your passive woofers are causing that "lag" you're hearing? Just guessing.
Roland Rohde it’s most likely the down firing passive radiator on the wood flooring. The passive radiator at high output is inevitably going to lag, raise the subwoofer off the floor because you have wooden flooring. That won’t help. Just 3 inches will make a world of difference. I had dual Rel Quakes on wooden floor and although not a passive radiator, it was still down firing. Same issue at high output.
Hey youthman ! What will you Prefer ? 2x sb 2000 or 1x sb3000 ? For a room with 35m2 And the Klipsch atmos speakers or the svs prime elevation ? Thx man !
I have not heard the SB2000 or Prime Elevations. Dual subs will give you smoother response in multiple seating locations. The Klipsch Atmos speakers worked well in my room. I have also heard good things about the Prime Elevation speakers
Typically ported will dig a little deeper and sound a bit more controlled and ported will provide more output. I prefer sealed for music and ported for movies
Youthman awesome thank you. So these subs like the Monolith and the SVS series that you can essentially plug the ports, does that actually work? I'm sure not as well as actually sealed but surely those little plugs make a difference but is it noticeable?
Hi! I have just one sub in my home theatre room and its a Velodyne DD 15+. Thinking about adding another so what do you think I should go for another identical Velodyne or can i go for an SVS PB-4000?
Hi, I love your videos, you handle the subject very well and communicate very well ... I understand it very well when you explain it in the videos .. I have a question? I have a Klipsch R-115sw, it is huge compared to what two had before ... SVS pb1000 and klipsch sw110 .. seeing this video I want to buy another R-115sw ..my living room is 13 x 31 feet but used for home theater 12 x 13 feet..dual R-115sw wouldn't be too big for the space I have? And if it sounds loud, I run the risk of losing the immersive and detailed sound that I already have? thanks .. I hope your answer youthman
Thanks Angel. You don’t have to worry about having too much subwoofer. That’s why you level match them so they play at the same volume as your other speakers.
Jeff wants to test the sub to make sure there isn’t anything wrong before these are released to the public so it is on its way back to JTR. In the meantime, he is sending me two other new models
Would 4 sub even really matter to much with location. I understand that 1 and 2 make a huge difference with location but I just couldn’t see having 4 sub and seeing much of a difference in location based on the location of them.
I just recently watched Audioholics video of placing multiple subs in the room and in the very beginning of that video, Gene said that if you have two subs placed quite nearly to each other, you kind of loose the benefit of multiple subs. I know Youthman, that you also have quite limited space where to place those subs, but have you ever tried/tested those subs a lot farther apart...?
I don’t have room to move them further apart. To do so, I would need to switch them with my mains and this squish the sound stage (definitely not a good thing). Gene is going to come by sometime so we can play with placement and miniDSP
@@Youthman I am at the same step as you, but trying to integrate two inch subs built into my Def Tech bp9060s and a 12 inch SVS PC-2000 with a minidsp 4×2 HD. Still trying to figure out how to generate filters on REW. It is a long learning process.
Hi Youth man, I see you have used the same sub in this video, you may have answered this before but I was wondering if you used different subs (that’s different size and brand) if that makes a difference?? I have a sub now and would like to add a second sub (more than likely a SVS sub). Would you do this or would this make a big difference to the sound? Thanks Brad
I wonder what would have happened had the two subwoofers dipped at the same frequency. I would imagine that each subwoofer would not have canceled the dip in the other one, and we would still end up with a big dip even when using 2 subwoofers. I guess the challenge then becomes: how can we get the two subwoofers to dip at different frequencies for this to work out.
Hey Men, great videos like always quick question if you're free, I have Dual PB-2000 right know and I was thinking to sell them in the future and go for (ONE) JTR Cap2400 or RS1 will that be terrible ? I currently have a 2 seats small living room... But i feel the duals now produce good bass but don't get any impacts or tactile bass in my chest thanks in advance !
Yo what’s up Youthman, I got quick question, gonna setup something in living room but I don’t want bulky speakers or receivers, looking at Yamaha ysp-5600, I know it’s some stop gap tech but it kinda fills my bill, plus I can use musiccast ecosystem with rest of my house, what other solution would you recommend, prefer Yamaha ecosystem
Hi youthman. Good to see another subs/rew vid . We need more of those . I run dual ultras as well. You managed to do a better job than me at smoothing out modal dips. Good job My question is though. How are you getting 105dB ? Thats pretty loud. My rew runs on individual subs peak at 80dB . Bot subs 86dB? Do you have your ultras level output set to 105dB ? If so why?
Numbers don't lie! I have a very irregular wave in the 30-60hz range. I'm about to try with two subwoffers and re-measure. If it's still no good, I'll upgrade to something more high quality.
Higher quality subwoofer will not fix an oil in your room. You will likely need to play around with placement of the two subwoofers, possibly delay adjustment on one of the subwoofers and for even more control using a mini DSP 2 x 4 HD to time align and EQ them
This is an interesting subject. And I really like the REW input in here. I am still debating your main conclusions. First of all, the gain in dB's you measured with this subwoofers. It is only around 5 or 6 percent. Does that really make that much of a difference? A good listen in your own room will tell. Your second and main conclusion is the one I am struggling the most with. I do understand it, as it shows, but the reasoning why it works, is a bit confusing for me. You talk about subwoofer with an almost flat response. As far as I can see, those subwoofers would not benefit from adding a second sub in respect to the major dip in performance. As this dip is not there, there are no gaps to fill. What I see in the graph is, that the two subs you have in your room, both have a major dip in performance. But they are not at the same level , nor both as deep. It seems to be a singular thing, and not really predictable. The good thing is, that it is measurable. Therefore the quick conclusion I make, is that measuring your speakers with a dedicated microphone is very smart to do. And it is a smart move to extend your subs, if there is a dip measured. But putting any sub in there, is no automatic win. If the dips overlap, I presume no or less gain is made in performance. In this case it is already clear from both individual graphs combined, that they undo the dips on eachothers graph. But more data would give a better and more solid conclusion in this matter. And that is in my eyes a very important conclusion.
Hi Youthman! Love your videos! Would you suggest to mix brands for dual sub setup? I am currently using a BIC Pl200ii sub (12" driver) and planning to buy an SVS pb1000(10" driver). On paper both subs' output and specs are almost same. Would it sound good in my sealed 11*13 sq. foot room?
@@Youthman I hope i will have the other software for the Hd 2x4 tonight I new with REW too, I had because i was off for a medical reason now i am back at work so my time will be more limited I found a place about REW on how to use it but it is like 30 pages long
@@Youthman also I saw wear subs in the front are not the best place for them. Audioholics showed subs subs at the right and left of you wear the best both side or i saw a long time ago at opposite coroners, the problem i can't place them any place much better than you can so i am stuck with better base but could be better it i could move the subs
@@Youthman You and me both! I need to figure out how to use my 2x4HD. I haven't really found any good videos in setting my subs up and incorporate them in my home theater using the 2x4HD. Maybe when you figure yours out... a video would be in order?
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I had 2 x 10" and a 12" Klipsch subs and floorstanding speakers with side firing subwoofers and the sound is out of this world and better than any commercial cinema I have visited, another fact that doesn't get mentioned very often and that is lifting your subs up off the floor and from personal experience it does make a difference. So technically I had a 11.5 surround system. I have since moved house and no longer have the room for the same setup. Having more subwoofers allows you to keep the volume down lower on each sub so you don't stress the drivers to much, trust me, my old system would vibrate the concrete floors of a two storey house. So what Youthman is saying in this video is absolutely "TRUE".
Hey Youthman another great tutorial. Very valuable, and useful information given. LOVE how you use the graphs during your tutorials. To be able to physically see the sound peaks, and valleys is a lot more effective that just communicating decibel, and hertz numbers. The way you present your tutorials makes it easy to follow along, and understand them. Great work brother!
Thank you sir. Glad the videos are helpful
This is such great advice and its been my experience that even 2 affordable subs will always be better than 1 expensive sub!
Hi Youthman, another great video!
On this subject, nobody discusses the benefits of elevating the subwoofers. Aside from proper placement, I bought some stands that are made for subwoofers and it made a world of difference. I heard less house rattling and the bass sounded smoother. I raised them about 10 inches higher. I was so happy when I discovered that. In your setup, Youthman, I see that your speaker and subwoofer placement are all elevated, so everything must sound phenomenal.
I really enjoy my setup however my whole house rattled lol
@@Youthman lol! I think the SVS subwoofers you got was designed to shake things up. Nothing much you can do to resolve that problem. ☺
I built 12" risers for my 3 Klipsch subs [5 years ago] best idea ever, it tightens up the bass and made an immediate improvement. I had 2 subs at the back of the room and one sub up the front plus the floorstanding speakers had side firing subwoofers so the bass was out of this world, hearing is believing.
@@lorindamikaela That is so cool! I'm glad you shared your story because not many people know about this, nor would they believe that it makes that much of a difference, but it does. Did you put rubberized feet on your stands? Mine came factory made like that and it helps. Thanks for sharing!
@@rafaelruiz-tagle358 - I made my risers out of MDF so they were a box with carpet covering it to make it look nice and the box had a couple of inches of sand inside to help absorb vibrations and I glued a 2 inch acoustic foam covering the whole of the bottom of the box, this was my own idea and design, next time I want to lift the subs higher off the floor. I did read many years ago online of a guy who experimented with many different positions for multiple subs and found lifting them up high off the floor closer to the roof made the biggest improvements but that wouldn't be the best look but if you are not concerned about looks then that is probably worth a try, any speaker lifted off the floor just a few inches improves the sound, I've been lifting all my speakers off the floor for many years now simply because it works. Often it's the small tricks and ideas that make the most noticeable improvements and it's usually the cheapest way. I now live in a smaller house and don't have the room to have my full setup even though I now own 4 Klipsch subs [2x 10" & 2x 12"] with multiple subs you don't need to turn the sub volume up high to get an impressive effect that vibrates the concrete floors. The old saying "more is better", well when it comes to subwoofers that is the case !!!
Just got my 2nd matching sub-woofer today and OMFG the difference is one to experience as words alone can't do it. So many awesome chills.
Great video as usual but you seem to have forgotten the link for PSA subs. I bought 2 PSA S3611s after watching your vids and couldn't be happier
Power Sound just rocks. Tom rocks!
Very educational and easy to follow video, thanks Michael. I've done some playing around in REW and it's such an in depth program that sometimes it's hard to know where to start. Videos like this are definitely helpful. 2 is always better than 1!
Thanks Kyle!
Youthman, nice video. We need to shelve the response below 40hz to match the rest of the bass frequencies. We should sweep up higher to ensure good integration with your mains. Also need to move one of your subs since they are so closely spaced they are acting like 1 super sub with a slight increase in modal density. Need to measure all your seats...mDSP will solve all of your problems.
BTW, a high Q LF dip like that is unusual from a single bass source. Did you have Audyssey engaged when you took those measurements?
I was about to comment saying: According to Gene at Audioholics, he would say two subs are too close together and would benefit from moving one further away to spread out the bass and flatten out that dip. Then I read his comment.
BTW, love your setup Youthman. I would hate to spoil the aesthetic of you room by moving one subwoofer but, it takes what it takes I guess. Also a big shout out to Gene at Audioholics! Love both of your channels. Audioholics, Youthman, Joe n Tell, Sparechange - I'm a subscriber to all. Got me to where I am today with a super 5.2 setup with 2x British BK Monolith Plus subwoofers with MiniDSP 2x4 and a Denon XT32 amp. Now that you guys are all friends, you should go on over to each others places to pimp out the space where one is lacking from the others. Audio, lighting, Cameras, streaming etc. Its all in the name of greatness! KEEP IT UP, all of you guys! Peace.
If you ever get some free time and find yourself in northern Illinois, you are welcome yo tune my room 💯
interesting concept, im currently looking to work on my sub set up this video is good insight. with your history and experience i might be about to but both together and get a better idea what i need to do and what direction i need. i be buying another amp to get at least 1000rms to the sub, but the same amp can do 1550 rms which is closer to the pb16 spec i might settle for 1200rms because its 1db difference from 1500rms
Thanks Gene. Audyssey was turned off for these measurements. I have always had that dip, almost everywhere I place a sub in my room. Not sure what is causing that.
@@Youthman Sometimes hz don't feel like it should
Great video, as usual. I have a question. After analyzing your room acoustics, how do you flatten the response? Do you use the equalizer that comes with the Marantz or do you use mini DSP? I’m considering buying one of those boxes, but if you have a better solution, it’s worth trying before spending some money. The problem in my room is that after running Audyssey with two subs, I get +3/-3dB from 25 to 90 hz , which is pretty flat, but the transient response in some frequencies feels uneven in the main listening position (more vibration on one cheek than the other, if you know what I mean). Each sub is at the same distance from the listening position, but maybe one sub reinforces some frequencies more than others, achieving the “global” flat response, but uneven transient response. Maybe if I flatten the sub’s response individually and then use Audyssey for a “global” calibration, It may solve my problem, but my receiver doesn’t have individual control for each sub, that’s why I want to know how do you flatten the response of the subs after analyzing the acoustics. Thanks in advance! It would be great to do a collab someday. Great channel.
What about the w subs canceling each other out at certain frequencies?
A good beginners video to illustrate the advantages of two subs but the response shows real problem in not just the low q null but from 40hz all the way up to 100hz+. Perhaps spreading the subs further apart would have better results higher up in the frequency range.
Yes by no means is this an amazing frequency response. I’m just limited on where I can place my subs.
Also this is without Audyssey or MiniDSP
Thanks Youthman Dude! I have been waiting on this video for a long time. I was always curious how well the PB16's did up there behind your screen. Looks like they perform well! Great video!
Thanks. That’s without Audyssey and without MiniDSP (need to learn how to use MiniDSP next.
@@Youthman I will be looking forward to all future videos as well. Thanks again!
When you run REW, where is your master volume supposed to be on the receiver?
You use the generator and meter to get 75 db
When using REW, the volume on the AVR doesn't really matter. You're looking for a specific response, not a specific dB
this was a perfect breakdown and explanation. great work.
Very clear visual explanation, great video
2x PB-3000's or 1x PB 16?
Been going back and forth on this for a month now! Pairing with Klipsch PR-208F (Each Tower has 2x 8" Woofers), PR-450C Center, 4 Ceiling Speakers
Use Case is 50/50 Music vs HT, Open Floor Plan living room.
Another consideration is 2x SB-3000. Sealed, save money and space, tighter for music.
Thanks for all your great work, Youthman!
Definitely 2 pb3000 they will destroy one pb16 for sure :)
Thank you so much youth man! At the moment I have one sb 2000 in my apartment but am totally convinced to add 1 more as long as the wife will let me.
what about placing the subwoofer at the center ? or do we need to think about 2 center channels?
Yes you can try that. REW would tell you if that’s a good location in your room. I do not have the ability of having a sub in the center
Hey Youthman. Your dual subwoofer set-up is like mine with both up front. Neither of us is getting the benefit of having multi subs. Gene from Audioholics touched on this in a recent video. In order to benefit from 2 subs, we would need to follow Dr. Floyd Toole's recommendation of midwall placement - front wall and back wall are the ideal.
I moved to SC and got married and my wife had been using the TV speakers for 50 years. Well, that's about to change... we now have a 7.2.2 Atmos system. My 1 sub is a 12" Velodyne I bought 20 years ago and remains to be a beast of a sub. Lord have mercy it is amazing. This sub will take on the bottom end from 80 to 20mhz. Glad they're coming back w Deep Blue. My other sub is a 10" Klipsch that will take on the upper range of the bass freqs from 80 to 120mhz. In my space this will allow each sub to handle limited duties while maintaining the SPL. In the new Top Gun 2 movie explosions start loud and remain until dropping off at the 30 to 20mhz. With just the 1 sub trying to do a larger freq range distortion kills the boom. My 2 cents....
Hey youthman. When buying a subwoofer which should I buy? A sealed subwoofer or ported!
Each to their own, ported are larger but have better output and generally handle lower frequencies better.... im putting 2 12inch ported Krix subs in my place.
Lilboots thanks for the reply. I have two Klipsch sw112 subwoofers. They offer a lot of output. However as of today I purchased two Klipsch C-310 sealed triple subwoofers. I must say the ported subs have greater output but for some reason the sealed sounds cleaner and balanced if that makes any sense. Now I don’t know which I should keep. The ported or the sealed.
@@bltodd578 yea its always hard, you just need to hear them and choose what suits you. I heard and honestly felt the power of sealed subwoofers but when watching Transformers and switching back and forth.... ported was for me.
Im in the process of my first dedicated home theatre room (7.3 x 4.2m) using all Krix and Anthem gear, and cant wait. $29.5k system all up (im single)
But thats the joys of your own home theatre, you can make it perfect for you
I run (4) 15" Velodyne subs up front on the outsides of my L&R front speakers. There are no dead spots in the room at all now but it did require a lot of tweaking with the sub's phase controls. The bass would cancel out if the phase controls were set wrong. I just used my ears to set them correctly.
How were you able to go through every frequency to see which phase settings were correct?
@@Youthman I played a bass-heavy song and used my ears when adjusting the phase on each sub. There was a huge difference when it was adjusted correctly.
You know youth man this video was absolutely awesome! I've seen other things that you have done and others as well and thought that would be a pretty good idea for me to do but never have yet done it. After physically seeing what your subs do individually as well as collectively I'm absolutely convinced and pumped I'm going to bite the bullet and buy the microphone and find out for myself how each one of my pb3000 perform individually as well as a pair.
It’s really the only way you can know what is going on in your room
Dual SB2000 plus one minidsp 2x4 HD plus REW changed my life forever 😉. Siriously, 2x4 HD does a much better job in bass management than Audessey 32xt
For sure. I just have to learn how to use it
Should I run my in line subs with my huge main speakers or the much smaller secondary speakers?
This is why I went with two BP9060 def techs. 10 inchSubs in both sides Left and Right towers create a much better listening experience.
There are some 8060 for sale in my area i am considering
Ghost Recon never tried those but my 2004 def tech towers are still killing it. I could even argue they have some more punch the 9060 although not as clean sounding and much less aesthetic. So I’m sure 8060s are great
I used to have the huge deftech towers with 18" shallow depth subs in it. I will say they are no where even close to a separate big sub. Not even remotely close. You should consider adding a sub (2 actually) thank me later. Your movie experience would be greatly improved.
Vinny Diesel my room would explode buddy. Got 4 total towers. It’s more than enough and it goes down to 19hz. You have to be really next level to need more.
@@BirdManCinema Trust me, there is a whole other level you can experience. Going to 19hz is one thing, doing it at over 105db is another. The only thing that truly matters is that you are happy, and I think you are there.
I've been doing systems for 30 years and experience has taught me that quadruple setups are the best, at least for me.
1- more coil for daily abuse
2-more SD surface area of cone with same airspace available. Eg 4tens in 5cubes instead of 1 15.
3- power compression cut in 1/4 plus better responsiveness for music using multiple smaller coils to spread the heat, improving performance
4- of course the smoothing out of response as well
I have a Klipsch RP 1400SW on the front, in between one RF 7 III and the central RC 64III. I was thinking on getting another sub, but I'm open to comments and suggestions. What do you think would fit best? another 1400SW on the back (behind the sofa), or getting a 16" model and moving the 14" behind the sofa?
Thanks!
I have four subwoofers. One each corner and it sounds great!!!
Great video Youthman!
Thanks
Good video! It looks like the sharp dips in the 40's are due to out-of-phase reflections from approx. 6ft away. Could you have addressed these by placing cushions between the subs and the nearest wall?
Im not sure. I have acoustic panels at my first reflection points.
ruclips.net/video/kHKCv9ISN58/видео.htmlsi=BQDbDm8UWiYBaIEC
Fantastic video! I’ve got one SVS SB 16 Ultra. Guess I’m picking up a second!
I've always been an advocate for dual subs. Dial them in with a miniDSP 2x4 HD and you will be amazed at how good it sounds.
I have 4 15 inch subs and run them at 20%. Very smooth and low bass. Anything higher drowns out music or movie sounds from the speakers.
I have always said the only time you should notice your subs is when you turn them off
I got my front speakers built and when im building my subs i think im going to use 2 of the Dayton Audio DCS450-4 18" subs with built in amps in a ported configuration. Trying to be budget friendly and still get good lows.
Heard great things about them.
YOUTHMAN! You missed my birthday, but I'll forgive that, HAHA! I've finally started getting my subs dialed in. With DIY it can be tricky but it's worth it when it all comes together. I need to do another tour video on my YT channel because a lot has changed. It's nothing TOO crazy but I've finally gotten within 3dB of 130dB at my MLP and pretty rock solid response.
Multiple subs are definitely the way to go. As Gene of Audioholics once said, 2 is better than 1, 4 is better than 2! I'm right at 9 and their response is pretty awesome, I just need to continue flattening that graph. Love your videos, as always, can't wait for the next installment!
Hi youthman..i have dual pb3000 will you please suggest me a good crossover setting?
Start with 80Hz. Some prefer 60Hz. Just see what sounds best in your room
vipin das I too have dual PB3000 and use 80Hz crossover. This video is great but I have the Antimode Dual Core 2.0 which interprets the best positions for me. Almost needless to say the best positions weren't where I planned on putting them initially but they do sound epic now with a very flat response throughout the lower frequency range. 😃
@@paulsouth2164 what you mean by antimode dual core 2.0?
@@vipz2007 www.avforums.com/review/dspeaker-anti-mode-2-0-dual-core-review.355
@@paulsouth2164 I have only single Klipsch R -115SW with Anti-mode 8033S-II and my honest opinion is that without that anti-mode, that Klipsch would NOT sound this good as it sounds now...Anti-mode is truly worth buying..And the best part is, that anti-mode is made here in Finland.. ;D
I love to listen using low volumes.
Could you kindly do a video on how to enhance low volume sound? What should i look for?
Awesome video man! This definitely shows the differences between single and dual. I used to run duals and now a single sub (until I get another one) and it’s definitely evident in certain seating area where I’m hitting nulls
Thank you
You need to work on flatten out that graph. It's nice to have high volume from 10-50Hz, but after that you dip again. Run Audyssey and play with the phase and you might flatten out that graph :)
Of course. This is without Audyssey or MiniDSP. Purpose of the video is to show basics of REW measurements and the benefits of using dual subs.
Youthman I see. Maybe make a follow up video to show how things turned out 🙃
I just got a pb-4000 and put it where I had my sb-2000. In all modes, using different sources, walking around the room and before/after calibration, the sub sounds weaker than the 2000 especially in the very low frequencies. It almost sounds like a high pass filter is on.
Do you (or anyone reading this) know if it just has to break in or is there something wrong with my pb-4000? Also, can I use these two subs together for a duel setup?
I don’t see this as being a break in issue. The PB4000 should have plenty more output than the PB2000. I would reach out to SVS support
Youthman Cool, I’ll do that. Thanks for replying.
@@Youthman Bit of an update. I talked with SVS. They said to leave it in sealed mode and turn it up to -10 (My 4500H wanted it at -22). It hits harder now, but I'm still not a fan of how it sounds in my room-which is fairly small btw.
So I plan to return it and get 3 more sb-2000 and put in the corners of my room. I think I'll be able to get the lower bass response I want plus smooth out and peaks and valleys.
Another great video, but to totally prove this you would have to EQ each single. Most likely that dip is being caused by your EQ since it is expecting the output from the other one to be there. I do however think, less subs are better said NOBODY! :)
I see in later posts its mentioned that Audyssey ws off, not sure about the internal DSP. Good stuff.
For sure all depends on whether the subs were measured with x32 on or off, and even then you can get strange results. Best way is using a MiniDsp connect to computer through usb and bypass the receiver all together. You can go a step further and eq both subs independently pre-audyssey. You will get a flatter response making lifer easier for audyssey and will also allow for a higher gain in the subs.
@@jimmy2shoes75 You dont need a minidsp for these. They have their own built in system.
@@taylorsrus9543 Oh ya on those subs you got the app
Another great video. Can testify to the huge benefit going dual subs. Love your channel
Thank you kindly
great video, which program do you use? and where you can get it; It would be great if you made a video about that program and the tools needed to calibrate the room.
At the end of the video I point to a Playlist on REW.
When running duel subs should I lower the levels for sub output or lower the gain on the actual sub?
I've only just got a second sub so new to this and trying to set up right.
I have 2 PB2000 now, is it possible in the future to get 2 16ultra and put them in the front and keep the PB2000 in the back in the room ? will it be hard to blend together ? thanks you great videos
Absolutely no problem doing that. It’s just harder when you try to mix ported and sealed subwoofers
I have 2 svs sb13 but I also have a definitive technology trinity. Should I get rid of the svs subs and keep the trinity?
I have not heard Trinity subs so I could not tell you how they compare. Your ears should be able to tell you which performs better.
@@Youthman Thanks
Hey Youthman!
You should test DALI's 14" subwoofer K14F, 500 watt max.
I work in a Hi-Fi store and I was really surprised with K14F as he can be compared with bigger subs.
Love your videos as always! 😊 (watching them while working 😀)
Thank you
Super helpful thanks Youthman.
Thanks. And that’s why I do what I do.
Awesome information!!!!!! Thanks for sharing. When do you need to run one subwoofer out of phase in a dual setup? Other than testing it, when is it needed or not? Thanks
My understanding is when they are in different locations (like one on the drone wall and one on the side wall). REW will allow you to easily see if changing phase makes a difference
Youthman thanks. I read so many different things on phasing. Thanks
Love this video!!! Can you make a video about using the EQ in the pb 16 to also assist with the frequency response? I have a pb 4000 and am looking to add a second one but I wanna get a handle on REW before I take the plunge and just learn with one for now.
I can’t be the only one who wants to see a video like that. If u already have one I apologize
I cover some of that in this video ruclips.net/video/Ct9N2QiEVvg/видео.html
Im confused why this doesn't match the SVS provided response graph
Because every room will provide a different frequency response. Most companies show measurements from ground plane (in an open field where there are no reflective surfaces for sound to bounce off of) or in an Anechoic chamber (again no reflections).
cool, so your room cancels a bit of the upper range out then, do you notice it
I would have loved if this test was done with a single subwoofer but located in the center, not on the far left or far right. I wonder if the null would be different with a subwoofer in the center. I still believe in stereo subwoofers.
Every room will interact with subwoofers. You have to find where it works best in your room.
I have ocd so I have to put them where the look best.
Awesome video as always. I only have a single klipsch r12sw but after this I may have to upgrade to a 2nd lol
I have two klipsch subs trust me it's way better than just having one in the corner. I have a 7.2.2 Dolby Atmos set up it's amazing.
Multiple Subs hertz so good 😊. Great video!
Thanks!
Does this correction software make any appreciable gains if you have 2 subs that are parallel connected vs just 1? I'm assuming any EQ connection will apply to both subs rather independent corrections to either sub.
You will get the most out of it if you connect a miniDSP 2x4 HD to each subwoofer so that it can time aligned them and EQ them individually
Please review the new svs towers paired with svs pb/sb 4000 or 2000.
Unfortunately I do not have plans to review the SVS Prime Pinnacle speaker’s or the SVS PB/SB 2000 or 4000 subwoofers.
You have always do these REW videos with all the settings "reseted"..with Audyssey turned off....but it would be really interesting to see what that graphics would look like when the Audyssey is turned on and all the settings like you put them when you watch a movie....or was this with made with Audyssey turned on?
I can see having REW on if I’m only measuring one sub but definitely needs to be turned off when comparing two subwoofers since Audyssey will EQ for the sub.
@@Youthman yes but that's what i meant, would like to see how Audyssey would effect when it EQs those subs.. How flat it would make that graph... Or do you mean that Audyssey would increase certain frequensys too much...?
Again a very interesting vidéo. 👍🏼. I m in the process of buying a subwoofer. And i have Téo choises. First one is the Svs PB 300 at a Canadian price of $ 1849.00. The second one is the sealed Paradigm Studio Sub 15 at a Canadian price of $ 1998.00 and It s a deal price. The real cost of the Paradigm is $ 4099.00 Canadian. I know the Svs subs are one of a kind but for almost the same price , should i go whith the Paradigm ?????? Thanks for ur help 👍🏼.
I have not heard the Paradigm sub but I am a fan of 15” subs for home theater.
Ok. Thanks for helping me. So i ll go with the Paradigm. I ll let u know how It s sound 👍🏼
I have what may be a silly question but when you run the microphone are you do you only have your subwoofers on and all the other speakers off or how do you go about doing all of that. I just got the mini DSP mic and I'm trying to learn what's going on
Hi James, I run it in Stereo so just the mains and the sub when I run REW tests. The mains are crossed over at 80Hz so there isn’t much overlap in the frequency response
Hey Youthman. I have my first sub a Kef kube 10b. I will be getting a second one, my question is do I have to invert the phase of one of the subs. Or can the phase of both be zero.
Can you do a part 2 and show how to flatten that response? thanks!
It’s coming. I have to learn how to use the MiniDSP first
Great idea for the video. See if you can't borrow 2 more. See what happens when you add a 3rd and then a 4th.. Night the reality is most have a hard enough time putting a 5.1 setup in their rooms.... Let alone attempt a 11.4
I have three other subs in for review 😀
This video made me instantly sub to you. Good content man😊
Thank you. I’m glad you enjoyed the video
My major question is did it sound any different besides looking at graphs? Is it something you actually notice in the real world verse looking at a graph?😎🤗
When you have a massive hole (30dB less volume in bass frequencies), yes that is noticeable. During those frequencies, there is basically no bass.
I have always had 2 or 4 subs on my platform so it has always sounded great to my ears.
I've just added a second subwoofer in the only empty space I had, behind my couch and besides my PC Desk (my room is a home theater/office) it shakes the seats while watching movies and playing videogames!!!
(I don't play games on my PC btw)
Great video. 2 questions:
1. Did you run the Marantz room correction before any measurements and if not would it haved helped with those dips?
2. Is it best to either daisy chain or use a y splitter to connect 2 subs to act as one sub to the processor or is it better to connect them both to the processor separately (if you have that option) to process them individually?
The measurements were taken with Audyssey turned off.
You can daisy chain or Y. Makes no difference in sound.
Hi Michael please could you reply me Sir. I'm anticipating an upgrade to my system.
Questio is: Should I get a pair of svs sb4000s or should I just add one more svs sb3000 because currently I've got two svs sb3000s. NOTE: sb4000 has a start of 1200 watts so a pair would be 2,400 watts. The sb3000 start at 800 watts so three would be 2,400 watts. I'm sure you know these specs far more than I do. I mainly listen to music. Thank you Sir.
You will likely gain around 6dB for each sub you add to your system. What are you wanting to gain by adding one or two additional subs?
when taking mesaurements for speakers and subs with rew should your volume on the avr be set to 0db or set to your normal listening volume?
Around 80db is the norm.
I believe my volume was set at -10dB when I ran my measurements.
Youthman, have you ever tried the Dirac setup? It supposedly should fix or greatly improve on that dip that you showed in the chart.
Not yet. These measurements were taken with Audyssey turned off.
MiniDSP should help as well
Youth man, that was an awesome educational video
Thank you
Just bought another svs 16 ultra. Also changed my receiver from Marantz to an Anthem. Man no comparison. I'll put another video up when I put on my jbl synthesis
I didn’t have the same experience when comparing Marantz SR8012 and Anthem MRX1120. Certainly not a night and day difference when I compared the two.
Great Youthman! Nice one, Recently I have done REW at my home..it's an interesting one. Please do a video on REW + minidsp Integration for subs too...
I will...as soon as I learn how to use it 😂
This was a very informative video, thank you! This made me decide to get a second subwoofer, but I don’t know which one to get. You have any recommendations for subs on a lower budget?
klipsch on Amazon 189 bucks i bought two this year a month ago. I have a 7.2.2 Dolby Atmos set up it sounds fantastic with two. yes get two
Hi Youthman! Im making a small home theater right now. Is there any way i can chat with you about how i setup my room for the acoustic foams and some wools
Hi Zorem, I would recommend joining the Youthman Crew closed Facebook Group. Lots of guys that can help
Cool video!
By the way, you should definitely try out Genelec speakers.
patrick oh here’s Patrick again. Tell me again, what subwoofers do you use?
GREAT info, Michael!!! Thanks soooo much!!!
I noticed when you did the left and right of your subwoofers you were at 100 DB 105 + on your tests. When I'm in my pb3000 I was at like 95 to just under a hundred. I'm wondering if that's just because of you having the Ultra Series or what was such a difference in the DB level when running the test?
Great. One question, do u use the 7705 with rew in stereo or multichannel when u send signal from rew ?
I use it in Stereo
@@Youthman and If u use in multichannel, chance much the graphs? Whats the distance of the two pb16 one of other ?
Hi Youthman!
I already run dual subs, and they are perfectly aligned and everything. They are Elac S12EQs and REW says they are flat from 20-80Hz. However, I recently watched Shazam! on iTunes (with Atmos), and during the first scene ( from Minute 4:00) when the Seven Deadly Sins talk, I get a very strange rumbling noise. It doesn't sound clean. Now I'm wondering, whether my subs are acting up, or whether there is something strange going on with that Scene in the Soundtrack....if you have the Movie, can you perhaps check that out?
That scene shakes my house. Is anything shaking causing a distortion? Or are you drivers maxing out?
@@jmart21
It isn't the drivers, I don't turn it up that loud...maybe it's the Laminate floor or something else. The Elacs have passive downfiring drivers...and they are pumping a lot of air in that scene...I will have to check whether that is what happens
@@jmart21
Ok, so I looked for shaking in the floor pr cabinets...but that doesn't seem to be it. It actually seems like the subs are "too slow" and are lagging behind the sound, creating a kind of bass echo when the statues speak. I can clearly feel it if I put my hand on the sub... it's always a bit late. Either the Soundtrack is just made that way, or something is wrong...
@@rolandrohde I'm no audio engineer, I wonder if your main drivers are maxing out and then your passive woofers are causing that "lag" you're hearing? Just guessing.
Roland Rohde it’s most likely the down firing passive radiator on the wood flooring. The passive radiator at high output is inevitably going to lag, raise the subwoofer off the floor because you have wooden flooring. That won’t help. Just 3 inches will make a world of difference. I had dual Rel Quakes on wooden floor and although not a passive radiator, it was still down firing. Same issue at high output.
Hey youthman ! What will you Prefer ?
2x sb 2000 or 1x sb3000 ? For a room with 35m2
And the Klipsch atmos speakers or the svs prime elevation ?
Thx man !
I have not heard the SB2000 or Prime Elevations.
Dual subs will give you smoother response in multiple seating locations.
The Klipsch Atmos speakers worked well in my room. I have also heard good things about the Prime Elevation speakers
What are the benefits of ported v the benefits of sealed?
Typically ported will dig a little deeper and sound a bit more controlled and ported will provide more output. I prefer sealed for music and ported for movies
@@Youthman you mean sealed will Sound A Little deeper and with more control
Youthman awesome thank you. So these subs like the Monolith and the SVS series that you can essentially plug the ports, does that actually work? I'm sure not as well as actually sealed but surely those little plugs make a difference but is it noticeable?
Were these responses without Audyssey?
Without Audyssey, without MiniDSP.
Dude, I have red green color blindness. I can't distinguish the first two tests. But I get the gist. 1 bad, 2 better.
Hi! I have just one sub in my home theatre room and its a Velodyne DD 15+. Thinking about adding another so what do you think I should go for another identical Velodyne or can i go for an SVS PB-4000?
DD 15 was a great sub but unfortunately it’s approaching 20 years old. Amp won’t last forever
Thanks for putting out great content.
Glad you enjoy the content. Look for a new video tomorrow
Hi, I love your videos, you handle the subject very well and communicate very well ... I understand it very well when you explain it in the videos .. I have a question? I have a Klipsch R-115sw, it is huge compared to what two had before ... SVS pb1000 and klipsch sw110 .. seeing this video I want to buy another R-115sw ..my living room is 13 x 31 feet but used for home theater 12 x 13 feet..dual R-115sw wouldn't be too big for the space I have? And if it sounds loud, I run the risk of losing the immersive and detailed sound that I already have? thanks .. I hope your answer youthman
Thanks Angel. You don’t have to worry about having too much subwoofer. That’s why you level match them so they play at the same volume as your other speakers.
Did you fix the JTR subwoofer, Youthman? Was the problem with Audyssey or with the subwoofer?
Jeff wants to test the sub to make sure there isn’t anything wrong before these are released to the public so it is on its way back to JTR. In the meantime, he is sending me two other new models
@@Youthman Thanks for the update. So you didn't try just running Audyssey and seeing if that fixed it? I mean before all that shipping....
Would 4 sub even really matter to much with location. I understand that 1 and 2 make a huge difference with location but I just couldn’t see having 4 sub and seeing much of a difference in location based on the location of them.
I just recently watched Audioholics video of placing multiple subs in the room and in the very beginning of that video, Gene said that if you have two subs placed quite nearly to each other, you kind of loose the benefit of multiple subs. I know Youthman, that you also have quite limited space where to place those subs, but have you ever tried/tested those subs a lot farther apart...?
I don’t have room to move them further apart. To do so, I would need to switch them with my mains and this squish the sound stage (definitely not a good thing).
Gene is going to come by sometime so we can play with placement and miniDSP
Now use their miniDSP HD to properly equalize those sub frequencies, you're half the way there already!
Exactly! I have the MiniDSP 2x4HD...I just need to learn how to use it
@@Youthman I am at the same step as you, but trying to integrate two inch subs built into my Def Tech bp9060s and a 12 inch SVS PC-2000 with a minidsp 4×2 HD. Still trying to figure out how to generate filters on REW. It is a long learning process.
Hi Youth man, I see you have used the same sub in this video, you may have answered this before but I was wondering if you used different subs (that’s different size and brand) if that makes a difference?? I have a sub now and would like to add a second sub (more than likely a SVS sub). Would you do this or would this make a big difference to the sound?
Thanks
Brad
I wonder what would have happened had the two subwoofers dipped at the same frequency. I would imagine that each subwoofer would not have canceled the dip in the other one, and we would still end up with a big dip even when using 2 subwoofers. I guess the challenge then becomes: how can we get the two subwoofers to dip at different frequencies for this to work out.
It’s all about speaker placement and phase alignment
Hey Men, great videos like always quick question if you're free, I have Dual PB-2000 right know and I was thinking to sell them in the future and go for (ONE) JTR Cap2400 or RS1 will that be terrible ? I currently have a 2 seats small living room... But i feel the duals now produce good bass but don't get any impacts or tactile bass in my chest thanks in advance !
JTR is in on an entirely different level than SVS. If you have a small room, you will have no problem feeling the Cap2400
Yo what’s up Youthman, I got quick question, gonna setup something in living room but I don’t want bulky speakers or receivers, looking at Yamaha ysp-5600, I know it’s some stop gap tech but it kinda fills my bill, plus I can use musiccast ecosystem with rest of my house, what other solution would you recommend, prefer Yamaha ecosystem
Hi youthman.
Good to see another subs/rew vid .
We need more of those . I run dual ultras as well. You managed to do a better job than me at smoothing out modal dips. Good job
My question is though. How are you getting 105dB ? Thats pretty loud.
My rew runs on individual subs peak at 80dB . Bot subs 86dB?
Do you have your ultras level output set to 105dB ? If so why?
Numbers don't lie! I have a very irregular wave in the 30-60hz range. I'm about to try with two subwoffers and re-measure. If it's still no good, I'll upgrade to something more high quality.
Higher quality subwoofer will not fix an oil in your room. You will likely need to play around with placement of the two subwoofers, possibly delay adjustment on one of the subwoofers and for even more control using a mini DSP 2 x 4 HD to time align and EQ them
Where did you get that shirt? I kinda want it haha
World Wide Stereo sent it to me
@@Youthman I'll take to see if they have any for sale haha. Its simple but I love it
This is an interesting subject. And I really like the REW input in here. I am still debating your main conclusions. First of all, the gain in dB's you measured with this subwoofers. It is only around 5 or 6 percent. Does that really make that much of a difference? A good listen in your own room will tell. Your second and main conclusion is the one I am struggling the most with. I do understand it, as it shows, but the reasoning why it works, is a bit confusing for me. You talk about subwoofer with an almost flat response. As far as I can see, those subwoofers would not benefit from adding a second sub in respect to the major dip in performance. As this dip is not there, there are no gaps to fill.
What I see in the graph is, that the two subs you have in your room, both have a major dip in performance. But they are not at the same level , nor both as deep. It seems to be a singular thing, and not really predictable. The good thing is, that it is measurable. Therefore the quick conclusion I make, is that measuring your speakers with a dedicated microphone is very smart to do. And it is a smart move to extend your subs, if there is a dip measured. But putting any sub in there, is no automatic win. If the dips overlap, I presume no or less gain is made in performance. In this case it is already clear from both individual graphs combined, that they undo the dips on eachothers graph. But more data would give a better and more solid conclusion in this matter. And that is in my eyes a very important conclusion.
Decibels aren't like a percentsge. 6dB is double the sound pressure ( volume ) and 10dB is double the perceived loudness.
It's a logarithmic scale
Hi Youthman! Love your videos! Would you suggest to mix brands for dual sub setup? I am currently using a BIC Pl200ii sub (12" driver) and planning to buy an SVS pb1000(10" driver). On paper both subs' output and specs are almost same. Would it sound good in my sealed 11*13 sq. foot room?
Mixing brands is no problem. I just do not recommend mixing sealed and ported subs as it tends to cause cancellation issues.
@@Youthman thanks for the reply!
Love your shirt!
Thanks! I get a lot of compliments on it. I have a link in the description 😀
add a 2x4 hd and you can make changes supposedly still waiting on a piece of software before i can see the results.
I have the 2x4HD. Just need to spend the time learning how to use it
@@Youthman I hope i will have the other software for the Hd 2x4 tonight I new with REW too, I had because i was off for a medical reason now i am back at work so my time will be more limited I found a place about REW on how to use it but it is like 30 pages long
@@Youthman also I saw wear subs in the front are not the best place for them. Audioholics showed subs subs at the right and left of you wear the best both side or i saw a long time ago at opposite coroners, the problem i can't place them any place much better than you can so i am stuck with better base but could be better it i could move the subs
@@Youthman You and me both! I need to figure out how to use my 2x4HD. I haven't really found any good videos in setting my subs up and incorporate them in my home theater using the 2x4HD. Maybe when you figure yours out... a video would be in order?