I too relate to these stories having a law degree. Later in life I obtained a MDiv and a ThD, both using remote study programs. These were well worth it to me personally, since I was at a point in life where I needed to "fill" some time. The ThD focused on New Testament studies and allowed me to consider a specific modern false teaching against Paul's attack on false doctrines and teachers, particularly in the book of Colossians. My process was very similar to Frank's having to demonstrate a front end proficiency in Greek, take several classes and then my dissertation focus. It was a personally fulfilling experience that has helped my teaching abilities at my local church and related areas.
I got my BA several years ago, then dropped out of grad school 2 semesters in. I never thought I would go back. But years later, I kept finding myself looking up graduate programs at seminaries and eventually God gave me two opportunities to finish my MTS and then a THD. By the time I started looking for a doctorate program, I knew I did not want to teach in academia, so I was able to find a program that would not cost me an arm and a leg, but would allow me to do the research I was interested in. My doctorate also followed the European model, allowing me to pursue courses and books that were important to my dissertation (and not repeats of classes I took in my Master's program). It was a great experience overall. It was fascinating to watch the politics and in-fighting amongst my dissertation committee members. I also enjoyed the dissertation defense. In the end, I would say that getting a doctorate is not necessary if you're going to be a pastor and a career in academia is a bit of an exercises in self flagellation. But if you have the time, finance, and desire, it is a very personally rewarding experience.
I can relate a bit to Frank. I have my Bachelors and Masters in Civil Engineering... but now as I consider the second half of my life (just turned 50!): as I wish to serve more in my church and teach (at church and local seminary) I have always wanted to pursue further biblical studies. If the Lord wills, I plan to complete my M.A. in Systematic Theology at Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary (PRTS) and then pursue a Ph.d. either at PRTS or maybe at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary (NOBTS)where they have a Textual Criticism doctoral program. Either way, I would need to do an additional Th.M. as preparatory work to launch in to the Ph.d program, especially for NOBTS. The key is to hold these goals with loose fingers as the Lord might have different plans :) Either way, Biblical Mastery Academy is a wonderful program to stay proficient in the Greek and Hebrew and have that language component locked in for any advance biblical studies I may pursue. So thankful for Darryl's program...
Similar here. In my late 30s and work full time in the consulting industry. Recently started a MA seminary degree primarily online. No ROI in mind other than personal edification.. I just felt strongly that I wanted to dive deeper into my theological understanding. I think it may be cool to continue into a ThM and/or PhD eventually, but we’ll see how I feel as the years go by (it will take me a long time at my current pace lol…)
PhD in South Africa is different. It is all dissertation. Your Masters application is evaluated based on a research proposal you submit, proving that you have surveyed all literature in your field and have identified a gap that contributes to the current discussion in your field, and can master an existing methodology to prepare for doctoral studies. Once you are done, you submit a PhD proposal claiming that you have reviewed all available literature and no one in the world has said what you claim you are going to contribute through your studies. So, you must make a unique contribution and be the only human in the world to have come up with whatever you produced in your PhD. Now, in biblical studies that is tricky because what can you say other than what has already been said by scholars over the past 2000+ years? It opens the door wide for liberal theology but definitely stretches us the conservative evangelicals. It gets scrutinised rigorously! In the society I belong to, one "scholar" passed a PhD claiming that in Luke 15, had it not been for patriarchy, the mother would have probably not let her son wonder off to eat with pigs. She attacks Luke and patriarchy and claims to make a contribution in New Testament feminist studies. She says "where was the mother"? "Is it possible she was suppressed and locked in the house"? One made a claim in the last conference that Paul may have been a fraudster. He claimed to not be in need/want financially when writing to other churches, but when speaking to others he claimed to be suffering financially. He said Paul dealt unscrupulously with money. This article was peer reviewed by scholars, and the latter PhD referred to was approved by at least 4 scholars in the world.
Greatly appreciated this video, I’m studying a Master of Theology degree in Old Testament, and I’m considering options for possible PhD work. Thanks for all of y’all’s help!
Are there any differences between MDiv vs MA Biblical Studies? My intention is to depend my bible knowledge and spiritual growth. At most is to teach at church for youth and market place Christian development.
Frank, this is the first time that I hear about Columbia Biblical Seminary. Besides its website, is there another place where I can find out more about the seminary? I’m trying to compare some seminaries when it comes to how reputable they are and the ratio of phd graduates and job placement whether in the church or academia. Thanks for the video!
Another outstanding and helpful video, thank you! As I've kicked around the idea of a PhD for a long time, I would ask, are you presented with a list of choices for your dissertation, or are you allowed to choose anything you want to be the expert in, so to speak?
Part of me would really like to get a PhD (I've done for years a postgraduate level study in theology already), but the challenge of taking time out of partial ministry means that that may not happen.
I found this: "The Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS) is an educational accreditor recognized by the United States Department of Education and the Council for Higher Education Accreditation." So it looks like that accreditation is good just like ATS.
I really enjoyed your discussion regarding a PhD program. I am currently looking into a Master’s in Biblical Studies. I originally considered a Master’s in Chaplaincy, and was accepted into three graduate schools, Liberty U, Ashland Theological Seminary, and Grand Canyon. But the Lord stopped me from going forward. Instead, it seems that the Lord calls me in my heart to do a Master’s in Biblical and Theological Studies. I would love to teach. I am considering Liberty University, Moody Bible Institute, DTS, Colorado Christian University, and Belhaven University. I still am considering Grand Canyon University. These are all Christian schools that have a Master’s in Biblical and Theological Studies. I am seeking an online course/ classes since I can’t move. Can you advise? I have been praying on it a lot, I hope to pursue this Master’s by next year, Lord willing.
@@afkblaze9311 Yes, that would be great. I have changed to a certificate level in Biblical studies instead of the Master’s level. I got accepted by Moody Bible Institute, Grand Canyon University, Liberty University and CCU. I am still praying on the schools and direction, that is the program offered online. Appreciate any advice.
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." II Timothy 2:15. It's never a waste of time to be serious about scriptural study. The bigger question, though, would be to ask what God designs and wills for you. Academics are very "heady." The Holy Spirit can certainly enable others to meet needs without a degree program (i.e. The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. Ps.19:7. and "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak." Matthew 10:19.) However, there is also a need for academics. Without apologetics, the legitimacy of scriptural concepts cannot be validated except through the demonstration of the power of God -- which is Pneumatology. Beyond academics, the higher ground is living and ministering through the power of God (II Timothy 3:5 "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.") Jesus engaged in apologetics, and as the Word, clearly the Master of Biblical study, but His focus was on doing. Does God need men to "know" as much as He really wants us to "be" and "do?" I present that to say that I have great admiration for educators and shepherds, and both can do great things for the kingdom of God! I have wanted to pursue Biblical academia all of my life, but the Lord has blessed me as I've followed His leading throughout my life. Coming near to retirement in my secular job, and having served in ministry over the past 25 years, maybe the Lord will allow for a season of the pursuit of formal academics? That's worthy of prayer! God bless you!
It depends where and what you were studying. For theological PhD's you typically study theological German so you can read the corpus of German works written in the 19th and 20th centuries.
@@bma tnx for your response, am from Ethiopia and I have finished my degree in BTH and am passionate in teaching ministry to serve my local community, so am looking for MA in biblical Studies or related as an international student. Blessing!!!!
I've known some guys with advanced degrees and I wouldn't give you 2 cents for any of them. I had a boss with a Master's Degree and I couldn't decipher his email messages. The preacher I used to go to church with has a Masters Degree and he can't read anything longer than a few words before he gives up. I don't know how people who can't read and write get advanced degrees but from what I've seen, I don't want any part of them.
Different schools have different standards. Not all schools are rigorous about eliminating those who don't meet the standards that might be expected on the outside. The quality of the program and school is an important consideration when selecting one. FWIW, I didn't do a PhD to get the letters (nobody in my country really cares), but to learn and grow, and so I'm glad I did mine, I hope I'm a better person follower of Christ for doing it.
@@bma - I take a look at some of these super-geniuses like James Tabor and other pseudo-intellectuals and I can quickly see that they don't know half the bible and the half that they do know, they don't believe. I've done better detective work than most of the teachers I've had. It reminds me of that verse in Psalms: "I have more understanding than all my teachers for thy testimonies are my constant meditation" - Ps 119:99
After sitting in seminary class with several Senior Pastors and bible teachers.... who I thought Knew the word truly did not know the Word. Today we have tons of PHD Bible students who are still in error and bad doctrine, so having a title and a big education truly means nothing if you dont have the Holy Spirit giving you understanding. PHD really means nothing. Its just an expensive title to have. The world has enough know it alls in error. We need spirit filled men and women to properly teach the word and remain of student of the Word...
The problem is that sin corrupts our thinking regardless of whether we have a doctorate or if we are uneducated. We do need the Holy Spirit to help us understand scripture... BUT even with the Holy Spirit we still make mistakes and fall into error regularly - regardless of whether we are educated or not. A lack of education is not something to brag about either (not that I'm saying you're doing this, but I've seen it done). One of the important tasks of education is to help us learn how to think carefully and weigh arguments. Unfortunately, emerging out the other side of an educational program does not mean one has learned this skill. Seminaries have their place. Certainly, I would not be able to teach and preach as I do (even though it is relatively poorly to what I'd like to do) if it were not for my education. I hope and pray that the Holy Spirit helps me to serve well and that He can use the work I do for His glory. Thanks for watching!
Amen In the outside world of hiring, Elon Musk has stated multiple times that he does not care what degree you have, but if you are an expert in the field. He just wants people really really good at what they do.
@@bma One Body many members, I do understand.. Its a soft spot with me, probably because of my upbringing, neglected, rejected, and walked over all because I didn't have as much or know as much as others around me. But I have learned now that the Holy Spirit gives understanding, can also quicken that wisdom.
@@bma we have men with PHD reaching prosperity, paganism or babbling tongues, denominations of people following schools built by bad interpretation... like the SDA, or Mormons ... all following false prophets and their doctrines. With their PHDs. From what I've learned... you can have all those titles and wasted all those years in school and be completely wrong. I try to lean on the Holy Spirit gives that gives me understanding. As the Bible says.
Hey Dr. Burling, I’d be curious to know, What are some areas or ways in which you see higher ed as being broken currently (if you do at all)? Aside from, I assume, the general leftist drift and agenda-pushing over the last 70+ years.
I've been thinking about this since I first read your question. Perhaps the major failure of education, and really, it is a failure of man - is to be faithful to Christ in scholarship. There should be a greater focus on devotional/personal growth in scholarship, and better church oversight of some seminaries to ensure they remain faithful to their mission. However, I don't know how to solve this while sin is still a factor in the world. Sin leads to drift away from faithfulness, so as long as men remain sinful, this will continue to be an issue.
@@bma thanks, those are good points! I’ve had similar thoughts about the relationship between churches on one side and Christian colleges/universities/seminaries on the other. And how either side can best help people grow. But very true that sin will always be at work.
I too relate to these stories having a law degree. Later in life I obtained a MDiv and a ThD, both using remote study programs. These were well worth it to me personally, since I was at a point in life where I needed to "fill" some time. The ThD focused on New Testament studies and allowed me to consider a specific modern false teaching against Paul's attack on false doctrines and teachers, particularly in the book of Colossians. My process was very similar to Frank's having to demonstrate a front end proficiency in Greek, take several classes and then my dissertation focus. It was a personally fulfilling experience that has helped my teaching abilities at my local church and related areas.
I got my BA several years ago, then dropped out of grad school 2 semesters in. I never thought I would go back. But years later, I kept finding myself looking up graduate programs at seminaries and eventually God gave me two opportunities to finish my MTS and then a THD. By the time I started looking for a doctorate program, I knew I did not want to teach in academia, so I was able to find a program that would not cost me an arm and a leg, but would allow me to do the research I was interested in. My doctorate also followed the European model, allowing me to pursue courses and books that were important to my dissertation (and not repeats of classes I took in my Master's program). It was a great experience overall. It was fascinating to watch the politics and in-fighting amongst my dissertation committee members. I also enjoyed the dissertation defense. In the end, I would say that getting a doctorate is not necessary if you're going to be a pastor and a career in academia is a bit of an exercises in self flagellation. But if you have the time, finance, and desire, it is a very personally rewarding experience.
We’ll said! Thanks!
@@bma In getting a job in academia in the US is the European Model or US model best? Are they both viewed favorably?
I can relate a bit to Frank. I have my Bachelors and Masters in Civil Engineering... but now as I consider the second half of my life (just turned 50!): as I wish to serve more in my church and teach (at church and local seminary) I have always wanted to pursue further biblical studies. If the Lord wills, I plan to complete my M.A. in Systematic Theology at Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary (PRTS) and then pursue a Ph.d. either at PRTS or maybe at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary (NOBTS)where they have a Textual Criticism doctoral program. Either way, I would need to do an additional Th.M. as preparatory work to launch in to the Ph.d program, especially for NOBTS. The key is to hold these goals with loose fingers as the Lord might have different plans :) Either way, Biblical Mastery Academy is a wonderful program to stay proficient in the Greek and Hebrew and have that language component locked in for any advance biblical studies I may pursue. So thankful for Darryl's program...
Similar here. In my late 30s and work full time in the consulting industry. Recently started a MA seminary degree primarily online. No ROI in mind other than personal edification.. I just felt strongly that I wanted to dive deeper into my theological understanding. I think it may be cool to continue into a ThM and/or PhD eventually, but we’ll see how I feel as the years go by (it will take me a long time at my current pace lol…)
PhD in South Africa is different. It is all dissertation. Your Masters application is evaluated based on a research proposal you submit, proving that you have surveyed all literature in your field and have identified a gap that contributes to the current discussion in your field, and can master an existing methodology to prepare for doctoral studies. Once you are done, you submit a PhD proposal claiming that you have reviewed all available literature and no one in the world has said what you claim you are going to contribute through your studies.
So, you must make a unique contribution and be the only human in the world to have come up with whatever you produced in your PhD. Now, in biblical studies that is tricky because what can you say other than what has already been said by scholars over the past 2000+ years? It opens the door wide for liberal theology but definitely stretches us the conservative evangelicals. It gets scrutinised rigorously!
In the society I belong to, one "scholar" passed a PhD claiming that in Luke 15, had it not been for patriarchy, the mother would have probably not let her son wonder off to eat with pigs. She attacks Luke and patriarchy and claims to make a contribution in New Testament feminist studies. She says "where was the mother"? "Is it possible she was suppressed and locked in the house"? One made a claim in the last conference that Paul may have been a fraudster. He claimed to not be in need/want financially when writing to other churches, but when speaking to others he claimed to be suffering financially. He said Paul dealt unscrupulously with money. This article was peer reviewed by scholars, and the latter PhD referred to was approved by at least 4 scholars in the world.
That's shocking 😳
Greatly appreciated this video, I’m studying a Master of Theology degree in Old Testament, and I’m considering options for possible PhD work. Thanks for all of y’all’s help!
Glad it was helpful! Keep on studying!
Where do you study😊?
Are there any differences between MDiv vs MA Biblical Studies? My intention is to depend my bible knowledge and spiritual growth. At most is to teach at church for youth and market place Christian development.
Frank, this is the first time that I hear about Columbia Biblical Seminary. Besides its website, is there another place where I can find out more about the seminary? I’m trying to compare some seminaries when it comes to how reputable they are and the ratio of phd graduates and job placement whether in the church or academia. Thanks for the video!
Another outstanding and helpful video, thank you! As I've kicked around the idea of a PhD for a long time, I would ask, are you presented with a list of choices for your dissertation, or are you allowed to choose anything you want to be the expert in, so to speak?
You get to choose but there is an approval process. We’ll cover this in more detail in a few weeks.
Part of me would really like to get a PhD (I've done for years a postgraduate level study in theology already), but the challenge of taking time out of partial ministry means that that may not happen.
Where can I do a PhD in textual criticism in America?
Reading the Ugaritic Texts should be a prerequisite to getting a biblical PhD...
I have a question…is a PhD in biblical study that is sacs accredited but not ats accredited still valid?
I found this: "The Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS) is an educational accreditor recognized by the United States Department of Education and the Council for Higher Education Accreditation." So it looks like that accreditation is good just like ATS.
@@figgythereformer Thanks!
I really enjoyed your discussion regarding a PhD program. I am currently looking into a Master’s in Biblical Studies. I originally considered a Master’s in Chaplaincy, and was accepted into three graduate schools, Liberty U, Ashland Theological Seminary, and Grand Canyon. But the Lord stopped me from going forward. Instead, it seems that the Lord calls me in my heart to do a Master’s in Biblical and Theological Studies. I would love to teach. I am considering Liberty University, Moody Bible Institute, DTS, Colorado Christian University, and Belhaven University. I still am considering Grand Canyon University. These are all Christian schools that have a Master’s in Biblical and Theological Studies. I am seeking an online course/ classes since I can’t move. Can you advise? I have been praying on it a lot, I hope to pursue this Master’s by next year, Lord willing.
Hi! I am working on my MDiv at GCU right now, on ground though. I would love to talk with you more about it if you are interested in more info.
@@afkblaze9311 Yes, that would be great. I have changed to a certificate level in Biblical studies instead of the Master’s level. I got accepted by Moody Bible Institute, Grand Canyon University, Liberty University and CCU. I am still praying on the schools and direction, that is the program offered online. Appreciate any advice.
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." II Timothy 2:15.
It's never a waste of time to be serious about scriptural study. The bigger question, though, would be to ask what God designs and wills for you. Academics are very "heady." The Holy Spirit can certainly enable others to meet needs without a degree program (i.e. The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. Ps.19:7.
and
"But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak." Matthew 10:19.)
However, there is also a need for academics. Without apologetics, the legitimacy of scriptural concepts cannot be validated except through the demonstration of the power of God -- which is Pneumatology.
Beyond academics, the higher ground is living and ministering through the power of God (II Timothy 3:5 "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.")
Jesus engaged in apologetics, and as the Word, clearly the Master of Biblical study, but His focus was on doing. Does God need men to "know" as much as He really wants us to "be" and "do?"
I present that to say that I have great admiration for educators and shepherds, and both can do great things for the kingdom of God! I have wanted to pursue Biblical academia all of my life, but the Lord has blessed me as I've followed His leading throughout my life.
Coming near to retirement in my secular job, and having served in ministry over the past 25 years, maybe the Lord will allow for a season of the pursuit of formal academics? That's worthy of prayer!
God bless you!
Here you are all these years later, and still temping me to get a PhD! I think I am the only one of the 4 Greek geeks to not get one?
I think so! You really should fix that 🤔😉
If I were to study German academically, would I study contemporary German?
It depends where and what you were studying. For theological PhD's you typically study theological German so you can read the corpus of German works written in the 19th and 20th centuries.
Can anyone share me the tip to find scholarship on biblical studies
What sort of scholarship are you looking for?
@@bma tnx for your response, am from Ethiopia and I have finished my degree in BTH and am passionate in teaching ministry to serve my local community, so am looking for MA in biblical Studies or related as an international student.
Blessing!!!!
I've known some guys with advanced degrees and I wouldn't give you 2 cents for any of them. I had a boss with a Master's Degree and I couldn't decipher his email messages. The preacher I used to go to church with has a Masters Degree and he can't read anything longer than a few words before he gives up. I don't know how people who can't read and write get advanced degrees but from what I've seen, I don't want any part of them.
Different schools have different standards. Not all schools are rigorous about eliminating those who don't meet the standards that might be expected on the outside. The quality of the program and school is an important consideration when selecting one. FWIW, I didn't do a PhD to get the letters (nobody in my country really cares), but to learn and grow, and so I'm glad I did mine, I hope I'm a better person follower of Christ for doing it.
@@bma - I take a look at some of these super-geniuses like James Tabor and other pseudo-intellectuals and I can quickly see that they don't know half the bible and the half that they do know, they don't believe. I've done better detective work than most of the teachers I've had. It reminds me of that verse in Psalms:
"I have more understanding than all my teachers for thy testimonies are my constant meditation" - Ps 119:99
Letters after your name is no substitute for faithfulness. But faithfulness with education is really quite wonderful!
@@GizmoFromPizmoSome of the smartest people in the world have a PhD. Throwing a blanket over graduate degrees doesn’t hold much water.
After sitting in seminary class with several Senior Pastors and bible teachers.... who I thought Knew the word truly did not know the Word.
Today we have tons of PHD Bible students who are still in error and bad doctrine, so having a title and a big education truly means nothing if you dont have the Holy Spirit giving you understanding.
PHD really means nothing. Its just an expensive title to have.
The world has enough know it alls in error. We need spirit filled men and women to properly teach the word and remain of student of the Word...
The problem is that sin corrupts our thinking regardless of whether we have a doctorate or if we are uneducated. We do need the Holy Spirit to help us understand scripture... BUT even with the Holy Spirit we still make mistakes and fall into error regularly - regardless of whether we are educated or not. A lack of education is not something to brag about either (not that I'm saying you're doing this, but I've seen it done). One of the important tasks of education is to help us learn how to think carefully and weigh arguments. Unfortunately, emerging out the other side of an educational program does not mean one has learned this skill.
Seminaries have their place. Certainly, I would not be able to teach and preach as I do (even though it is relatively poorly to what I'd like to do) if it were not for my education. I hope and pray that the Holy Spirit helps me to serve well and that He can use the work I do for His glory.
Thanks for watching!
Amen
In the outside world of hiring, Elon Musk has stated multiple times that he does not care what degree you have, but if you are an expert in the field.
He just wants people really really good at what they do.
@@bma One Body many members, I do understand..
Its a soft spot with me, probably because of my upbringing, neglected, rejected, and walked over all because I didn't have as much or know as much as others around me.
But I have learned now that the Holy Spirit gives understanding, can also quicken that wisdom.
@mrtdiver so your plan is to get hired by elon musk lmao? or to assume that literally everybody shares his opinion?
@@bma we have men with PHD reaching prosperity, paganism or babbling tongues, denominations of people following schools built by bad interpretation... like the SDA, or Mormons ... all following false prophets and their doctrines. With their PHDs.
From what I've learned... you can have all those titles and wasted all those years in school and be completely wrong. I try to lean on the Holy Spirit gives that gives me understanding. As the Bible says.
Hey Dr. Burling,
I’d be curious to know, What are some areas or ways in which you see higher ed as being broken currently (if you do at all)? Aside from, I assume, the general leftist drift and agenda-pushing over the last 70+ years.
I've been thinking about this since I first read your question. Perhaps the major failure of education, and really, it is a failure of man - is to be faithful to Christ in scholarship. There should be a greater focus on devotional/personal growth in scholarship, and better church oversight of some seminaries to ensure they remain faithful to their mission. However, I don't know how to solve this while sin is still a factor in the world. Sin leads to drift away from faithfulness, so as long as men remain sinful, this will continue to be an issue.
@@bma thanks, those are good points! I’ve had similar thoughts about the relationship between churches on one side and Christian colleges/universities/seminaries on the other. And how either side can best help people grow. But very true that sin will always be at work.