The Optimism of Melancholia | Slavoj Žižek | Big Think
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 4 сен 2024
- The Optimism of Melancholia
Watch the newest video from Big Think: bigth.ink/NewV...
Join Big Think Edge for exclusive videos: bigth.ink/Edge
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The philosopher on why Melancholia is actually an optimistic movie.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SLAVOJ ŽIŽEK
Slavoj Žižek is a Slovenian philosopher and cultural critic. He is a professor at the European Graduate School, International Director of the Birkbeck Institute for the Humanities, Birkbeck College, University of London, and a senior researcher at the Institute of Sociology, University of Ljubljana, Slovenia. His books include Living in the End Times, First as Tragedy, Then as Farce, In Defense of Lost Causes, four volumes of the Essential Žižek, and Event: A Philosophical Journey Through a Concept.
Žižek received his Ph.D. in Philosophy in Ljubljana studying Psychoanalysis. He has been called the "Elvis of philosophy" and an "academic rock star." His work calls for a return to the Cartesian subject and the German Ideology, in particular the works of Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, Immanuel Kant and Friedrich Wilhelm Joseph Schelling. Slavoj Žižek's work draws on the works of Jacques Lacan, moving his theory towards modern political and philosophical issues, finding the potential for liberatory politics within his work. But in all his turns to these thinkers and strands of thought, he hopes to call forth new potentials in thinking and self-reflexivity. He also calls for a return to the spirit of the revolutionary potential of Lenin and Karl Marx.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TRANSCRIPT:
Slavoj Zizek: Lars von Trier’s Melancholia, I think, it’s a basically, I’m not kidding, optimistic film, even as we know at the end the planet Melancholia hits the earth, we all die. But I find something beautifully poetical in the attitude of the main person, Justine, played by Kirsten Dunst, no, this inner peace, how she accepts this.
I claim that we should not read this as kind of a pessimism. “Oh, we all die. Who cares?” No, if you really want to do something good for society, if you want to avoid all totalitarian threats and so on, you basically should go . . . we should all go to this, let me call it--although I’m a total materialist--fundamentally spiritual experience of accepting that at some day everything will finish, that at any point the end may be near. I think that, quite on the contrary of what may appear, this can be a deep experience which pushes you to strengthen ethical activity.
The result of this experience is not, “Oh, the end may be near, so let’s kill, let’s just enjoy,” and so on. No, it’s the opposite. Again, paradoxically, I claim it’s not a superficially but profoundly optimistic film.
Interviewed by Megan Erickson
Directed / Produced by Jonathan Fowler & Elizabeth Rodd
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ABOUT BIG THINK:
Smarter Faster™
Big Think is the leading source of expert-driven, actionable, educational content -- with thousands of videos, featuring experts ranging from Bill Clinton to Bill Nye, we help you get smarter, faster. Subscribe to learn from top minds like these daily. Get actionable lessons from the world’s greatest thinkers & doers. Our experts are either disrupting or leading their respective fields. We aim to help you explore the big ideas and core skills that define knowledge in the 21st century, so you can apply them to the questions and challenges in your own life.
Other Frequent contributors include Michio Kaku & Neil DeGrasse Tyson.
Michio Kaku Playlist: bigth.ink/kaku
Bill Nye Playlist: bigth.ink/BillNye
Neil DeGrasse Tyson Playlist: bigth.ink/deGr...
Read more at Bigthink.com for a multitude of articles just as informative and satisfying as our videos. New articles posted daily on a range of intellectual topics.
Join Big Think Edge, to gain access to a world-class learning platform focused on building the soft skills essential to 21st century success. It features insight from many of the most celebrated and intelligent individuals in the world today. Topics on the platform are focused on: emotional intelligence, digital fluency, health and wellness, critical thinking, creativity, communication, career development, lifelong learning, management, problem solving & self-motivation.
BIG THINK EDGE: bigth.ink/Edge
If you're interested in licensing this or any other Big Think clip for commercial or private use, contact our licensing partner, Executive Interviews: bigth.ink/lice...
Want to get Smarter, Faster?
Subscribe for DAILY videos: bigth.ink/GetSmarter
Terence McKenna said that when the doctors told him he only had a few months at most to live, even a bug crawling across a leaf could move him to tears.
Damn. Imagine the state he was in. Must have been so bitter sweet.
He wasn't ready to accept despite his endless tripping with the help of drugs. .
No solace lied in his otherworldly experiences.
The self dribbling basketballs where mere hallucinations void of substance and meaning.
*"The man who realizes the TAO in the morning , dies with contend in the afternoon."*
I sometimes imagine it’s my last day on the planet and get the same effect 😊
Beautiful tragedy called life...
@@IGOR-wu4bx dies with content* in the afternoon
I too saw the film as optimistic. It explores the depths of a yet mysterious illness - depression - with subjective, objective, and figurative (the planet) depictions of its effects. But just as the world is ending, who is the only one who still can think clearly? Justine. She makes the last moments count by indulging the optimism of a child. When there's nothing you can do about a situation, doing something is doing everything.
Zizek's point about totalitarianism is precisely that: the "pessimist" might imagine there's no out but death; yet that is exactly the frame of mind that leads people to take the actions necessary to improve a seemingly hopeless situation.
Maybe hope in time is an illusion... Did you see the movie, 'Human Nature' written by Kaufmann?
Dead j shue
Accepting that you are not in total control is a good thing. I cannot still be not thinking of this freudian slip of zizek that its still the end where end comes. What I loved in this movie was the fact that it's the opening scene what brings everything to the table. When you know the end is coming no matter what it's easier to relate to the only carracter that seems to have the shortest of idea whats actually going on.
But yeah theres much tranquility to observe two planets colliding. When u zoom in and see all the little life that is going then u maybe feel human. Thinking big is such an oxymoron sometimes. At least when u realize your own size. But yes. Lets all slow down and see what the fuck is going on. And the faster you all lazy basterds start doing what your supposed to do to find harmony. Well you can just die off like the dog you are. Your bones ain't yours boy/girl/whatever
lol and there's recommendation, another "think too big(but I like zizek)": The Universe in 90 minutes: Time, free will, God, & more. Fuck Im gonna pass it cause I don't beleave that I can take take everything in 90 minutes. Maybe your comment has some meaning. Then again YOU don't know shit. I know but I don't!
But her ability to think clearly doesn't matter because the world still ends and there's nothing she can do about it
This is one of the best messages ever. “He who has ears, let him hear.” Professor, thank you.
This is the main purpose of horror in noir/horror films. They say this in meditation as well. Sometimes you float serenely, passively, a full victim, toward the most horrific thoughts, images and realizations. These pieces of art are there to help you travel toward horror. This is the purpose of David Lynch's films. They are intended to reunite you with terror on the deepest level because that terror is some of the most highly alive, strong part of yourself. It awakens you briskly, like eating a terrific spice, but it also helps integrate you with your unconscious.
You mean Catharsis.
The Kübler-Ross model follows many of these patterns when given by life, but what Lynch and other fetishists of Eastern Dogmas contain is the slave and abuse mentality disguised as the seeking of truth and resultant serenity. Complacency of self and caste relations relegate to these ideologies their hidden nature: happiness in slavery. What is sold in those quite open “mystery” and “wisdom” schools of the East and the new wave movements that bastardize them are falsehoods that preserve caste orders, far from the unity and peace preached.
Horrors are completely stupid and no relation to reality 90% of times.
Proust once said something very similar when asked how he feels about a apocalyptic scenario. He said that everything suddenly would become so beautiful...
I love this guy. And he always looks like he is at that verge of before the hangover really hits and you're still drunk but sober and energetic enough to talk a lot. There is a documentary of him, worth checking out.
when my grandpa died, my depression/anxiety was like a blanket weighting my whole life down for years. i saw a beautiful girl, felt nothing. heard a familiar song on the radio. felt nothing at all. i wasn't sad about not getting aroused. or sad about what the song reminded me of or that it didn't have that uplifting effect like it did before. there was just nothing. little by little i felt stuff triggering me. still almost nothing, but when i saw an elderly couple holding hands in the metro or was walking by my grandpa's favourite brand of candy in the store, i started crying. felt sadness. finally. which was better than nothing. like justine in the film, i went in and out. then i started looking up everywhere i went. instead of shoegazing, i looked up and imagined where i could end it all. looking for beams. justine looked up to the incoming planet and from my point of view, saw this as salvation and a way out, where others panicked and saw it as a negative. justine saw it as something positive. maybe she was even optimistic. the planet actively ending her life and she could only wait passively. after research, not planning and setting a date yet, i was in doubt. my actions would influence my surroundings. i thought if i get cancer, it will all be over and out of my control. kinda like the planet. no one could blame me, tell me it's gonna be ok, because it's terminal and out of my hands. maybe better than beams and some rope. i don't want to be ill, then end my illness and as a result make my friends and family ill. when justine sat there in the end, she was supportive. everyone else still had something to lose. the planet/melancholia/depression/guilt/illness/death/salvation... whatever you think fits, didn't made her (or me in my opinion and experience) optimistic, because there was nothing to be optimistic about, but she was now useful. being useful and comforting her sister, like she helped her when going in and out of depression. my sister helped and still helps me and i hope to help her some more too. more than now. maybe not just make her happy, but help and comfort her in a time of need, where my illness is useful for once. positive, not negative. now i don't feel optimistic or happy but get triggered positively by talking to my sister's children and the neighbours cat visiting me everyday. i don't want more right now. more than enough. play with the kids and the kitty and mostly hideaway listening to philosophical podcasts. not only the illness but also corona took away my former life and surely also something from everyone else's life. maybe first only your work, then savings, then made you ill and later mentally ill. locked inside. no contacts. no exercise. no hobbies. no parties. no social life. a downward spiral. actively trying to dig yourself out, but going deeper as a result. then remaining passive. petrified. getting a little better and some stuff done. petrified again. like von trier and his depression i assume. it's our luck that he makes use of his depression and gives us not an explanation, but attempts to make us feel and experience his feeling of depression and a film that connects and stays with us. i saw the film a decade ago, so i might be very wrong about von trier's intentions, but this stuck somehow with me. thanks to lars, who makes you want to turn away and applaud at the same time, which i prefer to being smiled at, while they give you the finger behind their back. you might not like his films, walk out of the cinema, but they will stay with you. and also thanks to zizek for making me and my brain go on exploration with your guidance.
Thanks for sharing your experience. This is gold.
It might be very weird what I'm about to say. I kind of envy your depression, because it seems like you really deeply loved your grandfather. I wish I had that.
When Corona happened, I was actually happy. I felt like the world is ending. I remembered the saying "some men just want to watch the world burn", I was very shocked to realise that I'm one of those men. If a planet was coming to hit earth, I'll weirdly sit and enjoy watching the world ends.
It's not even that I don't love life, I actually do ... very much. I'll keep living if just to watch sunsets everyday. But I won't mind it if the world ended tomorrow.
makes sense even if it sounds weird... to envy depression@@yuzan3607 never thought about it that way. depression is often seen as a weak trait, but in this example with my grandpa it's actually showing my deep love for him. thanks for making me realise that. i think we both love life very much and know that for every high there is a low and we don't mind if it ends tomorrow. watching sunsets is very much living in the moment and life is fragile. the sun is giving us life and can take it all away. we are capable of being good and bad, deep love and deep thinking but also really just a tiny part of the universe and barely evolved enough to think about life beyond our meat and bone suit and reptile brain. i think we both might suffer and benefit from bipolar/manic depression... maybe? weird to suffer, benefit from and envy depression, right? it is night time now and the sun will soon rise as i i type this. we are already familiar and used to how it feels to burn and crash. and an incoming planet or sunrise/sunset is like an old familiar friend visiting. you are welcome in my tent of sticks and stones anytime.
but if you look closely at the ending even Justine begins to show anxiety on her face right at the very end. Only the child is calm. Perhaps Lars is suggesting even the most hopeless shopenhauerian among us have some emotional tether to life, and that only the child, the ignorant, can be blissful, that there is no way to confront the end of life as we know it with any kind of peace despite ur disposition
basically buddhism and bushido. Acceptance of inevitable death leads to rejection of the self, which can remove fear and doubt.
Buddhism is the complete rejection of ultimate death. It literally posits life as continual and uninterrupted before birth and after death. Which is why someone like the Dalai Lama exists. People claim the illegitimacy of Chinese leaders (little more than dictators), but never question the idea that a child found covered in horse shit is a more legitimate leader of an entire nation of people just because some religious leaders with neater robes than those in the west say so. Christianity aligns itself with atheism in it’s acceptance of death, Judaism follows in its refusal of life after death. But Japanese philosophy and religion is what led to suicide bombers asking how many times they should dive bomb airplane carriers with their planes in WWII.
But makes one feel nothing.. Excatly the problem with stoic philosophy... And it can make you be able to kill another human being just because someone tells you to do so...
@@maniswolftoman ahh, good that you see the dangers of zen and the eternal guilt of Judaism. I am not sure, but doesn't Christianity makes a difference between existence (your mother gives you that) and life (your father, as a child your biological one, and later on when you realize that he is not a god or an infallible idol, you "should" (like you shall love) realize that your true father is God and that you need him for a human is weak, and that he was the one that gave you life)? Catholicism = your biological father is replaced with the pope in order to exploit your family in order to build that beautiful vatican and control the masses with their natural fear of God which every child knows (in the form of their biological father as a symbol about someone who is always right and with infinite more physical force than you have.)
What do you think about this: Atheism = You die, the reaper comes and zinggg.. The end. Theism = You die, no reaper comes and your being begins, all life was about becoming who you became when you died. Buddhism = You die and you realize that you never existed - the concept of Non-existance which one can learn thru constant non-thinking or meditation.
I leave Judaism out for now ;)
Dissociative nature is necessary in tribal hierarchies for the lower members.
I've been suffering with medical issues for about 7 years now, every day I wake up I am surprised to be alive, and even more surprised that I still enjoy life.
Or at least I see life for what it truly is.
This is not something I can explain, you must wait to experience true suffering in order get the most out of life.
This may not sound optimistic but here it is; I hope you all live long enough to suffer as beautifully as I have.
I want more of this man on BigThink! :)
Melancholy is that feeling I have when I know that everyone's got to die, and even the world's going to end some day, and although it hurts, I can see how that's a critical part of the stunning beauty of the Universe. And I'm ok with that.
Philosopher Byung-Chul Han writes about this in "The Agony of Eros" (Agonie des Eros 2012), and explains it in a similar way as Zizek. Han: "Paradoxically, the approach of death animates Justine. It opens her to the Other. Liberated from narcissistic captivity, Justine also devotes caring attention to her sister and her sister's son. The film's real magic lies in Justine's miraculous transformation from a depressive into a lover." (2017: 5)
Seeing a planet that close would be beautiful, before we die we get to see a beautiful display in the sky
Zizek's Pollyannaism on display here. Justine says to Claire "The earth is evil. No one is going to miss it." Zizek obviously missed that bit.
And what is her reaction to that?
That's his M.O. Wildly misread something just so he can demonstrate some ostensibly clever paradox or contradiction and then half-assedly connect that to leftist politics
I think it was more of an impartial documentary tbh. Like "No matter how you approach life; how you feel - the end is the same, and unavoidable." No one character came out better than the other. None of their actions mattered in the slightest and no "right" or "wrong" actions were possible.
Ah, Death, thou art the great neutral one. The saints and the devils tremble at thou voice...
If you actually saw the movie, you would remember Justine’s claim that “Earth is an evil place”, hence her absolute “optimistic” desire for Melancholia to end this planet’s superbly drawn existence.
Very optimistic of her, to accept death when all she craves is death.
My man here is usually on point, but here, he strikes hard. Justine’s sister’s drive to save her child is the only vital drive at the end of the movie, hence her anguish and despair: for the loss of potential life.
Justine is an apostle of death; her sister is a true believer of impending doom, the face of whoever loves life staring at the Reaper in the face. Distressed and annoying, but clinging to life.
Von Trier would laugh hard -with a Danish accent- at this absolute misreading of his movie.
Zizek is a force of nature. Very constructive point!
The difference is that in Melancholia people have that feeling all the time, not only when the end is near so they will always have that motivation on every action taken deep in their hearts.
The thing about pesimism is you shouldn't let it control your actions because you then become destructive for your sorroundings(for example not giving a crap about finding a job, because you and everyone will die, is piutting a great burden on your parents who now need to financially support you). On the other hand, if you accept that yes we will all die and this may as well be pointless, but you don't act that way,You act "normal" with that cognition in mind, you then aren't destructive. You then accepted the faith, and acceptance is the most liberating feeling.
Nietzsche’s amor fati/ affirmation of life and Camus Absurdism. Great synthesis of those giants!!
Slavoj Zizek. It is fine, fine pleasure to hear his brain at work. A liberating contrast to society's status quo. I could certainly hear more from him.
I agree. I think Lars said that depressed people cope better with tragedy. I would think it is because they are already there, and also the end also means the end to their suffering, and they don't feel like they got any stake in the world anyway. If you got nothing to lose, the end can be an experience more meaningful than life and survival. Or rather there is a factor of survival in dying, the survival of the soul...
I think Zizek meant to say that she kinda freed herself from her emotions ( as in a more buddhist way to say; like Moksha) and that freedom gave her a profound calmness as in attaining liberation from suffering at the realization of impermanence (again another buddhist concept), resulting in true compassion as we can see at the end of the film. And in my opinion that really is something optimistic and beautiful.
Slavoj is so awesome.
What makes the movie especially fascinating is that she's the one with clinical depression, the one seen as socially and psychologically dysfunctional by the rest of her family, someone who could never hope to get by without their constant help and urging. And then the end draws near, and every one of these people who thinks of themselves as a vital support for her loses their own mind panicking, and she's the only one who can deal with it. I've never seen another movie argue that depression has value, has an upside.
If you'd had the spiritual experience zizek is talking about you'd accept that the end may be near all the time and you would act kindly precisely because of that realization, because you know every moment is infinitely precious and you want to improve life for everyone at any given moment. but if you hold on to your life and can't accept your temporary existence, if you want to live forever, you can't be as compassionate.
If life was a computer game, this guy would be undead warlock spamming only drain life spell. Still I have a huge respect for him.
The way you describe the sensation of freedom and liberation through acceptance is optimistic and very calming, but in reference to the entirety of Dunst's performance in the film, the cost of her liberation was not worth it in my opinion.
What I am learning from reading and listening to more Zizek is that he is very much about the shock factor and pluralist views on a variety of issues. Your interpretation hits the important point right on the head, and I can definitely get on board with it.
He is talking about authentic being towards death.(cf. Heidegger) When we accept the the inevitability of our own annihilation, the finitude of our own personal existence and can face the inevitable anxiety with courage, the result is not nihilism but rather a clearing out of triviality and the ability to focus on what truly matters to us and to grasp the nettle firmly and engage with life in a full and meaningful fashion.
I totally agree with him on this matter, quite oddly.
I feel compassion for loved ones because I make an effort to. I make the effort because it is generally a good thing for one's self-esteem and personal well-being to feel camaraderie with others, and family is one of the easiest sources of this for me.
If I am gaining nothing by doing something, and losing nothing by not doing it, then why should I do it?
I'd also like to point out that Von Trier suffered a crippling depression that left him hospitalized for a period of his life. Antichrist was a product of the depths of his depression as he wrote and directed it during this period. He was tortured mentally, and it shows. However, Melancholia is produced after this major period of depression when he is "healthier". The optimism here lies in the fact that acceptance breeds change; that acknowledging our fears produces the platform for inner peace.
I feel exactly the same about one of my favorite films: The Fountain.
Thats quite the opposite with that film.
I imagine Socrates to be a lot like this man.
I lold when he said hypothetically "we should kill, enjoy ourselves".. as if everyone thinks killing is something enjoyable and the only thing keeping us from killing were laws that regulate our pleasures...
Yep, anyone who doesn't feel this way hasn't very mature with their inner spirituality. By spirituality I don't man God or a soul, I am an Atheist and this concept is a very important rite of passage, especially for those like myself who have been brought up as a Christian, or any religion believing in God and an afterlife. It was a tough journey, but you find peace.
most religions and philosophies say you cannot reach happiness or appreciation for the world until you are no longer attached to it then can you approach it free from your needs and wants and enjoy it as it is? sorry for my grammer
Yes, all the enduring religions (true or untrue) teach the impermanence of the flesh.
Khirsten Dounst...Love it
I feel that reading your comment has, in a way, broadened my mind. You are an example of why I comment and read comments on RUclips.
I couldn't agree more with him, and the film is soooo beautiful.
Michael J Fox summed it up in Casualties of War:
"Everybody's acting like we can do anything and it don't matter what we do. Maybe we gotta' be extra careful because maybe it matters more than we even know."
Question is, who does it matter to?
I love his accent
laisvis bu that's a first
I love his nose
Счастлив услышать, что вы верите в духовность
I agree. Absolutely - My favorite film, number one in my top3
I've not yet gotten around to Proust , maybe next winter . However I know what he means . I go stand in my front yard when the tornado warnings blare . I would tell neighbors that I wanted to see what was going to kill me , but inside I knew it was about ecstasy !
The movie cheered me up immensely.
IMO, the most important word said is IF: "IF you really want to do something good for society, IF you want to avoid all totalitarian traps, and so on..."
Mr.Zizek forgets to mention WHY we would want to do those things if the end is near. If everything is about to end, if we are all going to die and there is nothing more to it, then why would I wanna do anything good for society? I want to do good for ME and MINE, not for strangers who will never matter to me! I may die, but charity dies first!
I wouldn't say "optimism". I would rather say "happiness" and "the peace of mind". It was one powerful movie. What are we living for?
My take on the film is a bit different. I got the impression that the planet's collision was unconsciously being caused by Justine's depression, as in she was some kind of god in human form (hence the way she could "know things") so her mood affected everyone and not just herself. Maybe in lacanian terms Justine is a depressed big Other whose moods can bring down the rest of us.
Symbolically I thought that this represented how people with depression can tend to take down the people around them, like the way that Claire looks after Justine in a way that could be seen as indulging or even encouraging the melancholia, and hence this leads to them being negatively affected by it too. What is austerity if not a globalised (economic) depression?
Zizek nails iT 💯 %
It's a feeling that emerged throughout the evolution of living organism. Basically, if you don't have the ego to protect yourself or your offspring, your species goes extinct. It's the same feeling Neo had throughout Matrix trilogy. His mind can reject death and he is therefore an immortal in matrix. But at the end he understood his time has come and let Smith kill him. You can see the relief in his eyes. What a great movie.
"Death is the wish of some, relief of many, end of all."
Zizek claims to be a materialist, but I don't see him as such. He's truly spiritual in some sense and this gives him strength. Accepting things as they are and remaining in inner peace is a very spiritual practice.
@brazen bully he claims to be an atheist and sees christianity as the ultimate atheismn due to the last words of christ: "Father, why have you foresaken me?!"
as if a state could be reached! as if a soul could be complete, with no further work to be done! we're always BECOMING what we are. There is never rest for the great. And if there are, they have nothing to do with the individual themselves, but they occur through bigger enterprises, religious ones, injunctions of the infinite. We tell ourselves we are complete, that we've achieved something...but really life's still out there, there's still work to be done...
He is describing the movie as optimistic, that even one person has the potential to push past the baser instinct of humanity and seek peace before death instead of vainly struggling against inevitability. He believes, I think, that this is the optimal course for humanity.
Slavoj Zizek: Melancholia di Lars von Trier, penso, è fondamentalmente, non
sto scherzando, un film ottimista, anche se sappiamo che alla fine il
pianeta Melancholia colpisce la terra, moriamo tutti. Ma trovo qualcosa
di meravigliosamente poetico nell'atteggiamento della protagonista,
Justine, interpretata da Kirsten Dunst, no, questa pace interiore, come
lei accetta questo.Sostengo
che non dovremmo leggerlo come una specie di pessimismo. "Oh, moriremo
tutti, a chi importa?" No, se vuoi davvero fare qualcosa di buono per la
società, se vuoi evitare tutte le minacce totalitarie e così via, in
pratica devi andare. . . dovremmo tutti andare a questo, lasciatemi che
la chiami - sebbene io sia un materialista totale - esperienza
fondamentalmente spirituale di accettare che un giorno tutto finirà, che
in qualsiasi momento la fine potrebbe essere vicina. Penso che, al
contrario di quanto possa apparire, questa può essere un'esperienza
profonda che ti spinge a rafforzare l'attività etica.Il
risultato di questa esperienza non è, "Oh, la fine potrebbe essere
vicina, quindi uccidiamo, divertiamoci," e così via. No, è il contrario.
Di nuovo, paradossalmente, sostengo che non si tratta di un film non
superficialmente, ma profondamente ottimista.
That blew my mind.
Too bad i cant explain this like him XD
Everyone thinks im stupid when i try and tell them Melancholia is an optimistic movie.
He's right. A very good analysis, and a great film.
We think you'll dig his stance on Happiness ruclips.net/video/U88jj6PSD7w/видео.html
great point, her acting or writing of the character never made me see it that way tho
This guy... THIS GUY IS AWESOME :D
I disagree with Zizek on this one. Justine is not an optimist. She is just relieved at the idea that the world is going to end soon. This is typical of the depressed mind, which Lars Von Trier was trying to depict in the movie. The only relief of the depressed person is the idea that everything is going to end. Depressed people think about death very often, sometimes imagining their own death has a calming effect.
Reed Richards of the Fantastic Four: “It doesn’t matter what we do = What we do is all that matters.”
Zizek and myself sit in a long tradition that stretches back to Epicurus and the Stoics, that of the wonder of contentedness, since backed up strongly by the empirical evidence.
without the angel of death we would not feel alive; we would be immortal gods with no sense of what it is to intrinically live
I'd love to meet this guy in a bar and just talk to him. Just....talk.
He's all enthusiastic and stuff... plus accent. Win.
-x-
i like his accent, it's not as strong as accents that i have to make sense of everyday, so it holds it's awesomeness and i can make out what he says easily.
Self-actualization means to realize one's full potential. Specifically, a full potential of achieving one's values. Also, see "Maslow's hierarchy of needs."
the point made was that this movie better than any other i've seen makes you face your own mortality and i think that's a pretty healthy thing.
People aren't necessarily compassionate because they need to because of some rewarding or punishing system of liferules. When you allow yourself to see another one's suffering, to picture it, you will probably feel compassion and perhaps an urge to help. You choose to allow that only for your loved ones, but that doesn't mean that you wouldn't feel the same urge for a stranger when you allowed it, when you took the time to see it. It is a trivial choice to allow that only for your loved ones.
The end is the beginning of everything, in it's true form. Optimism means the earth will live on with greater humans with self reflection and who can withstand the heat, long after entitled, negative and impulsive, socially isolated boys have destroyed themselves.
is not a spoiler, that is the prelude at the begin of the movie, and is the final also... but... see the movie for understand
I don't know where to get such a degree, but there is much info on the internet describing the various symptoms of various disorders, both physical as well as mental - such things as tangental skewing of thoughts, etc. There is also much info about how various emotional meta-states skew thinking. All you have to do really is commit some time to learning the subject, just as you can learn electronic design from the internet, from basics all the way through microprocessor programming.
Alber Kameu reveals that Total Absurdity is the ultimate Hope.
( collaterally rescued many lifes of young Thinkers, who were at the point of suicide, seeing how ridiculous our Human Condition is)
This Idea is also in His work "the Sisyphus' stone".
I like Slavo but this is an old Idea and he can't use "I declare that.... " " I am proposing that...."
No, dear Philosopher, you just meet that revelation. A.Cameu met it in the 50's or 60's, last century. I met the revelation as I was 16yrs old.
Martin Luther King agrees! Book: "Strength to Love," Chapter 9: "Shattered Dreams." Details the same argument.
absolutely true! thanks for sharing the insight :)
Except some people won't but will instead use their time selfishly. Which was exactly my point: That people can do either good or bad when they learn of inevitably dying. Which is such an obvious point of course.
Exactly. I fail to see the point of acting "good" if we're inevitably going to die. Our deeds and consciences will be wiped away if there's no God to keep track of our actions, and the only things that keeps us from doing evil, up until we realize this, are our habits. Godlessness leads to either bourgeois English despair or bottomless, futile Nietzchean rage; this Nicole seems to have opted, like most existentialists, for the former.
Actually not a spoiler at all.
This is revealed at the very beginning of the film to get the feeling of suspense out of the way. The movie is about the feeling of melancholia and how it affects each character - not suspense.
Donald duck's voice actor sure loves films
I guess what matters is what I plan on doing about it. Then again that still doesn't really determine whether I'm optimistic or pessemistic. I could see the need for change as an opportunity or an outright necessity. If I don't plan on doing much about it however, than I really have no right saying things can be better.
Acceptance is not optimism. The peace of fatalism, is not the same as the joy of optimism.
My thoughts exactly. She was nothing like how Zizek portrays her at the end of the movie. Spiritually and emotionally vacant would be much more apt.
Yes
If there is no future can there be any purpose beyond the subjective and immediate?
Yes.
i think even if there is an afterlife i dont think it changes anything, we dont know what really happens and living and achieving things in this world is the most important anyway. I think we should live like this is the only life we got and it might be a nice suprise if it turns out not
good film, great explanation. why wasn't he on the commentary soundtrack?
I watched the movie last night. I did not feel any optimisim. Justine was happy that the life in the universe will vanish. She thought that the universe is better off without us. And that was because of her psychological break down (the inner melancholia)
that is the phoniest genuine accent I've ever heard
I found the Kirsten Dunst character to be very practical once she realized that the end of the world was coming in movie Melancholia, I didn't quite get the feeling that she was optimistic either when she was sitting down in a circle with planet X crashing into Earth or just before.
ypaul83:
Yes, the universe and life itself has no meaning. But pessimism is the lazy way out. Being human is to create something out of nothing and experience it as positively as you can while being aware that your life is your own creation. The brain is built for the task.
Nothing is ugly nor beauty, nothing is bad nor good. Why experience negativity when you can entrain your brain to experience pozitivity?
I love that movie.
If you didn't you must watch Fight Club the best movie EVER! It sends the same meaning, Zizek sometimes refers to it...
At least it all eventually comes to an end...
I haven't seen the film, but if Justine was enjoying life as the planet approached, she did everything but accept death. She acknowledged death and resolved to live until it was out of her hands. Acknowledgement and refusal (when they happen at once, not one after the other) are far from acceptance.
This seems to have been a long winded way to say ``you only live once.`` The central point is that coming to accept the inevitable strengthens you and makes you realize the importance of the time you have left allowing you to push past wanton indulgences and better yourself. If only this were the case in reality. When faced with disaster, man seeks to expend his latent power, to fulfill all of his desires; a final rebellion against the inevitability of death through unrestrained living.
this is exactly my thoughts
Well that's something, that's actually as he said.
Well, I can agree to that, but in your original comment, you said "when they learn they only have a small time left". He is talking about generally accepting the fact that they will die at some point.