Regarding Anne Frank's diary and Robert's comment that he wouldn't want his teenage diary published: Anne wanted to be a professional writer and she started keeping that diary, it was to practice for the memoirs she planned to write when she was a big name author. For that purpose, she actually kept two diaries, a raw one that was just what she wrote in every day and one where she would refine what she'd written in the first one in order to practice editing her work. When her dad Otto, the only one of the family to survive the camps, decided to publish it, it was with the idea in mind that his wife and daughters were gone and he could never get them back, but he could at least fulfil Anne most fervent wish and make her a published author. He saw this more as a symbolic gesture and didn't expect it to do very well, because he assumed that his feeling that she was a better writer than he had ever imagined was just a grieving father's overestimation of his lost daughter. But she actually was that good.
There's a reason "Small Business Tyrant" is a term. Being tenuously bourgeoisie means their meager wealth gained via trading or extraction of surplus labour value is at risk. They had finally gained some small foothold in one step above the lowest rung in the hierarchy, and their biggest fear is having to fall back down that fictitious pyramid. They will turn into monsters at the drop of a dime when their meager status is threatened.
This is 100% correct. The funny thing is that in the US, a large portion of Republican voters vote for that reason and a ton of Democratic voters do the same. Its why we are so tremendously fucked. The amount of people willing to vote for the candidate that will actually help working class people is miniscule. I can remember a ton of Democratic voters claiming they would vote for Trump over Bernie because they didn't want to "live in a socialist country". In the US, there is no shortage of dumbass, ignorant voters.
I remember a coworker who told me on the day after Trump won in 2016, that "he doesn't actually mean any of that racist stuff, you'll see". In the interest of restraining my temper at work, I couldn't think of anything other to say than "I hope you're right about that, but I guess we're going to find out" and I regret not saying something more forceful. And I'm thinking of him all through this, and my reaction to him. He seems to have only drifted further into MAGA since then. Could I have done something to turn it around? I could have tried to shame him, but I don't know that that would have accomplished anything. So I bit my tongue and kept the peace. I was still waking up in the morning, wasn't thinking too hard about it at the time. I'm still angry at him. But I'm frustrated with my own passivity. My views are Left, and I constantly feel like I'm not doing enough.
@Burningsok5 Or, that it was recorded three years before Hamas launched a terror, rape, kidnapping attack…that caused leftists to cheer and wave Palestinian flags at rallies.
Torn. Project 2025 is a real thing, but America cannot continue with business as usual, especially seeing how this country supports Israel. To me, genocide here and genocide there are no different. I still donxt plan to vote, as I'm at a point where I feel this country will get what it deserves either way. Call it "accelerationist," but I'm just tired of it all.
This POV absolutely needs to be considered by anyone who is NOT an avowed Right Winger OR an avowed Left Winger. Because the "sins of omission" and standing by as things get worse do contribute to a nation's slide towards Fascist Authoritarianism.
@@nickscurvy8635I think they meant that in the sense of, left wingers alredy understand this while right wingers are lost causes, but the politically indecisive probably don't know this and need to understand.
It makes total sense that the petit bourgeoisie and bourgeoisie capitalists would support fascism, while the proletariat, the people who suffer the most under capitalism, would support the communists.
Yep and the beauty of current America is that the majority of the people who suffer the most under capitalism will support fascism because they think they are being screwed by people with even less power than themselves.
One thing I find particularly scarry and worrysome about the normal people in the party and "we will reign it in for the better" is that I see the same attitude in more progressive spaces too. "Leftists" that aren't socialists (the og meaning, not the one party state capitalism nonsense), in particular, who don't fully disagree with the system. It is "vote our team into power, and things will be better" Their team is in power "okay, haven't actually addressed the main problems or their root... yet, but we will, we just need more time, more mandates, more blah blah blah and we will reign it in". It is not the same motivations, but it is the same sports teams mentality, the same fundamentally believing in the system. It is the same belief (initial belief, at least) that it isn't that we need to have some serious transformations and some serious work, no no, we can just slowly and passively reform in a way that I won't personally be inconvenienced psychologically and get the "right people" into power. Which is exactly how shit like the Bolsheviks did a coup on the leftist coallition who were still trying to figure things out and built the USSR, and we all know that was just red fascism. In other words, in many of our spaces, we have the same seeds for it, you just need an opportunity and opportunists to dress in the right colors, and we often don't pluck that weed out before we are even in a position for it to play a role. /ted talk
Having read The Nazi Doctors and Rise and Fall, what I found interesting (and understated in this podcast) is the finer points of the German culture. German culture has a massive focus on whats good for the people as a whole. It was as fundamental an aspect of their society as politeness in Japan or the Caste system in India. Many people researched for both books I mentoned (particularly the Nazi Doctors, which was written soon after the war precisely to understand why people went along) and for many they didnt approve of Nazi ideals, but felt the party overall would improve quality of life for the Volk. Not that there wasnt latent antisemitism after WW1, but note gays, blacks, catholics and gypsies were also rounded up. Everyday germans refused all evidence to believe the party line that they were simply being relocated - but they also said many times that while distasteful it was good for Germany overall
The petite-bourgeoisie is always the grassroots and focal point of fascist rhetoric and organising. Actual working class people, proletarians and lumpens, might be duped (and modern fascists are much better at convincing the working class), but it's always the self-employed and small business owners. They aspire to be full bourgeois and fear falling back into the proletariat. They have neither the security of massive wealth nor the ability to organise en masse, so they have little recourse in the event of an economic crash. Obviously the bourgeois will always side with fascists when it comes to it, but it's out of a pragmatic desire to prevent an organised worker's movement. The petite-bourgeois are uniquely positioned to be vulnerable to fascist rhetoric around anti-communism and whatever crazy conspiracy they are using as a scapegoat. Same with the managerial class, but for different reasons. Although in pure class analysis they are as working class as a day labourer, they have been placed by capital in a position of power above the other workers and view them as "lesser", so they are wary of genuine worker's power because, even though communism would objectively benefit them as workers, they would also lose that power and privilege. So, along with small business owners and the self employed, you see middle and upper management latching onto fascist talking points. Hell, some the most unhinged customers I get are men in suits. Sure, there's occasional casual racism and ignorance from my fellow proles, but very rare is the kind of conspiratorial thinking that I hear from small business owners and management types.
I know it's a small point in the overall episode, but I want to address the distrust in polls part. Polls are still very useful. They just need to be good, and they need to have context. 538, for instance, gave Trump something like a 25% chance of winning because they took into account the Electoral College. Hillary won the popular vote by a mile, but unfortunately that's now how it's decided. It came down to basically 3 states, and those 3 states were razor thin. Trump won Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin by a combined 78,000 votes. Out of 13 million total votes in those states. It's not that the polls were wrong or you can't trust them. It's just that Trump got a few things to barely break his way. But yes, I'm glad in 2020 people at least didn't assume Biden would win and actually turned out to vote.
No. Polls are part of the death of democracy. People like to follow the leader and most are lazy by default. Polls convinced many people to not vote and we got Trump
Re: the discussion on how the nazi rise to power was depicted in schools, I very much heard the version Robert Evans heard in schools, and I generally had a high quality education as far as american schools go. Though, part of that was that I did world history and 20th century history classes at a time when people were focusing a lot on fixing the euro-centric way things were taught, which led to me having a better understanding of truly global history than many of my peers who didn't take the AP/advanced classes, but less understanding of european history. I don't think the 'i actually know the term banana republic and america's history of supporting dictators for economic gain but couldn't tell you how france went from revolution to its modern govt' exchange was all that bad of an exchange, but there's always gonna be holes.
A big talking point around Brexit was a disdain for "experts". The people who knew were horrified, but it worked incredibly well. Of course, it bit our government in the arse when, during covid, they were trying desperately to get people to pay attention to scientists. Not all the time of course, sometimes our government would ignore its own scientific advisors, claim they said something different, and reopen the country to tune of thousands of avoidable deaths. Which of course, only increased the perception of scientists as unreliable and made the anti-intellectualism and conspiracy theories worse.
On the note of Trumpism not having a strong idea, I also think Trump lacks a certain intentionality to his actions. Part of his fascist leanings come out of ignorance and blind instinct. He doesn't have a goal like Hitler or Mussolini. Not beyond "money and fame" and saying whatever he thinks his audience wants to hear because he's a salesman. He doesn't understand why what he does is wrong in the same way he doesn't understand why we don't use nukes.
Literally marching in the streets chanting "Jews will not replace us!" A rather high profile murder happened at the United The Right rally, a day of many violent clashes between Reactionary Right Wing White Nationalists and those who showed up to oppose them. All analogous to events in the lead up the Nazi take over of Germany. But sure... Any comparison is just overblown.
@@miguelvelez7221"You shouldn't compare Trump to Hitler, it's not accurate!" Meanwhile Jan 6 is reminding me an awful lot of the Beer Hall Putsch... Edit: no, but seriously: do people think Hitler just materialized one day and immediately started gassing people? He had to worm his way up to that point. Trump and other wannabes started out in the same exact place Hitler and Mussolini did.
Really? It reminds me of all the people who use disingenuous accusations of antisemitism and support for terrorism as part of a narrative that attempts to justify genocide.
Regarding Anne Frank's diary and Robert's comment that he wouldn't want his teenage diary published:
Anne wanted to be a professional writer and she started keeping that diary, it was to practice for the memoirs she planned to write when she was a big name author. For that purpose, she actually kept two diaries, a raw one that was just what she wrote in every day and one where she would refine what she'd written in the first one in order to practice editing her work.
When her dad Otto, the only one of the family to survive the camps, decided to publish it, it was with the idea in mind that his wife and daughters were gone and he could never get them back, but he could at least fulfil Anne most fervent wish and make her a published author. He saw this more as a symbolic gesture and didn't expect it to do very well, because he assumed that his feeling that she was a better writer than he had ever imagined was just a grieving father's overestimation of his lost daughter. But she actually was that good.
She was amazing for being so young.
There's a reason "Small Business Tyrant" is a term.
Being tenuously bourgeoisie means their meager wealth gained via trading or extraction of surplus labour value is at risk. They had finally gained some small foothold in one step above the lowest rung in the hierarchy, and their biggest fear is having to fall back down that fictitious pyramid. They will turn into monsters at the drop of a dime when their meager status is threatened.
💯 No notes.
Oskar Schindler?
This is 100% correct. The funny thing is that in the US, a large portion of Republican voters vote for that reason and a ton of Democratic voters do the same. Its why we are so tremendously fucked. The amount of people willing to vote for the candidate that will actually help working class people is miniscule. I can remember a ton of Democratic voters claiming they would vote for Trump over Bernie because they didn't want to "live in a socialist country". In the US, there is no shortage of dumbass, ignorant voters.
Exactly
@@petebondurant58What about him?
I remember a coworker who told me on the day after Trump won in 2016, that "he doesn't actually mean any of that racist stuff, you'll see". In the interest of restraining my temper at work, I couldn't think of anything other to say than "I hope you're right about that, but I guess we're going to find out" and I regret not saying something more forceful. And I'm thinking of him all through this, and my reaction to him. He seems to have only drifted further into MAGA since then. Could I have done something to turn it around? I could have tried to shame him, but I don't know that that would have accomplished anything. So I bit my tongue and kept the peace. I was still waking up in the morning, wasn't thinking too hard about it at the time. I'm still angry at him. But I'm frustrated with my own passivity. My views are Left, and I constantly feel like I'm not doing enough.
Original Air Date: October 13, 2020
God, what a tense time that was.
"*was*"? It still is and is honestly more worrying now
I was an absolute nervous wreck haha fuck what a dark time indeed
Oooh boy, knowing this was recorded less than a month before the 2020 election is crazy with the hindsight that shit actually gets even wilder.
@Burningsok5
Or, that it was recorded three years before Hamas launched a terror, rape, kidnapping attack…that caused leftists to cheer and wave Palestinian flags at rallies.
Torn.
Project 2025 is a real thing, but America cannot continue with business as usual, especially seeing how this country supports Israel.
To me, genocide here and genocide there are no different.
I still donxt plan to vote, as I'm at a point where I feel this country will get what it deserves either way. Call it "accelerationist," but I'm just tired of it all.
@@Virjunior01 Oh, you're not tired of it all. You not remotely concerned with Hamas slaughtering people.
"It was none of the fun Nazi stuff."
- Robert Evans
This POV absolutely needs to be considered by anyone who is NOT an avowed Right Winger OR an avowed Left Winger.
Because the "sins of omission" and standing by as things get worse do contribute to a nation's slide towards Fascist Authoritarianism.
What if i AM an avowed left winger?
@@nickscurvy8635I think they meant that in the sense of, left wingers alredy understand this while right wingers are lost causes, but the politically indecisive probably don't know this and need to understand.
It makes total sense that the petit bourgeoisie and bourgeoisie capitalists would support fascism, while the proletariat, the people who suffer the most under capitalism, would support the communists.
Most German workers didn’t actually support the communists.
Yep and the beauty of current America is that the majority of the people who suffer the most under capitalism will support fascism because they think they are being screwed by people with even less power than themselves.
@ryanm9566
The Proletariat suffer under communism also.
I'm sure other people have said it, but in relation to this topic i HIGHLY recommend The Zone of Interest
7am morning
Come to take us away
Little men, big guns
Pointed at our heads
One thing I find particularly scarry and worrysome about the normal people in the party and "we will reign it in for the better" is that I see the same attitude in more progressive spaces too. "Leftists" that aren't socialists (the og meaning, not the one party state capitalism nonsense), in particular, who don't fully disagree with the system. It is "vote our team into power, and things will be better" Their team is in power "okay, haven't actually addressed the main problems or their root... yet, but we will, we just need more time, more mandates, more blah blah blah and we will reign it in".
It is not the same motivations, but it is the same sports teams mentality, the same fundamentally believing in the system. It is the same belief (initial belief, at least) that it isn't that we need to have some serious transformations and some serious work, no no, we can just slowly and passively reform in a way that I won't personally be inconvenienced psychologically and get the "right people" into power. Which is exactly how shit like the Bolsheviks did a coup on the leftist coallition who were still trying to figure things out and built the USSR, and we all know that was just red fascism. In other words, in many of our spaces, we have the same seeds for it, you just need an opportunity and opportunists to dress in the right colors, and we often don't pluck that weed out before we are even in a position for it to play a role. /ted talk
You’re always welcome to visit Maracaibo.
I’ve never clicked so fast on one of these 😅
The comment and emoji seems almost offensive, in light of the title....just saying.
@@cthulhupthagn5771 this is just a topic i was very interested in learning about. it didn’t disappoint either
@cthulhupthagn5771 maybe the emoji... but wanting to learn about horrible things is kinda why people listen to this channel.
Listening to the first 5 minutes-how’d Hitler learn to tie his shoes? He turned the strings in little knot-sies.
❤❤❤ This should be ON TV....REPLACING speculations on the Submersible and replacing Trump's bullshit town halls❤❤❤
You guys are badass
Having read The Nazi Doctors and Rise and Fall, what I found interesting (and understated in this podcast) is the finer points of the German culture.
German culture has a massive focus on whats good for the people as a whole. It was as fundamental an aspect of their society as politeness in Japan or the Caste system in India.
Many people researched for both books I mentoned (particularly the Nazi Doctors, which was written soon after the war precisely to understand why people went along) and for many they didnt approve of Nazi ideals, but felt the party overall would improve quality of life for the Volk.
Not that there wasnt latent antisemitism after WW1, but note gays, blacks, catholics and gypsies were also rounded up. Everyday germans refused all evidence to believe the party line that they were simply being relocated - but they also said many times that while distasteful it was good for Germany overall
The petite-bourgeoisie is always the grassroots and focal point of fascist rhetoric and organising. Actual working class people, proletarians and lumpens, might be duped (and modern fascists are much better at convincing the working class), but it's always the self-employed and small business owners. They aspire to be full bourgeois and fear falling back into the proletariat. They have neither the security of massive wealth nor the ability to organise en masse, so they have little recourse in the event of an economic crash. Obviously the bourgeois will always side with fascists when it comes to it, but it's out of a pragmatic desire to prevent an organised worker's movement. The petite-bourgeois are uniquely positioned to be vulnerable to fascist rhetoric around anti-communism and whatever crazy conspiracy they are using as a scapegoat.
Same with the managerial class, but for different reasons. Although in pure class analysis they are as working class as a day labourer, they have been placed by capital in a position of power above the other workers and view them as "lesser", so they are wary of genuine worker's power because, even though communism would objectively benefit them as workers, they would also lose that power and privilege. So, along with small business owners and the self employed, you see middle and upper management latching onto fascist talking points. Hell, some the most unhinged customers I get are men in suits. Sure, there's occasional casual racism and ignorance from my fellow proles, but very rare is the kind of conspiratorial thinking that I hear from small business owners and management types.
What a load of crap. 🤣
The thing that stuck with me was my uncle's tattoo they gave him as a prisoner. He was a toddler tops.
I know it's a small point in the overall episode, but I want to address the distrust in polls part. Polls are still very useful. They just need to be good, and they need to have context. 538, for instance, gave Trump something like a 25% chance of winning because they took into account the Electoral College. Hillary won the popular vote by a mile, but unfortunately that's now how it's decided.
It came down to basically 3 states, and those 3 states were razor thin. Trump won Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin by a combined 78,000 votes. Out of 13 million total votes in those states. It's not that the polls were wrong or you can't trust them. It's just that Trump got a few things to barely break his way.
But yes, I'm glad in 2020 people at least didn't assume Biden would win and actually turned out to vote.
No. Polls are part of the death of democracy. People like to follow the leader and most are lazy by default. Polls convinced many people to not vote and we got Trump
It was a big agreement. Look up the MIldenstein coin.
....this could turn into another Horse Vessel situation... that's no good
Re: the discussion on how the nazi rise to power was depicted in schools, I very much heard the version Robert Evans heard in schools, and I generally had a high quality education as far as american schools go. Though, part of that was that I did world history and 20th century history classes at a time when people were focusing a lot on fixing the euro-centric way things were taught, which led to me having a better understanding of truly global history than many of my peers who didn't take the AP/advanced classes, but less understanding of european history. I don't think the 'i actually know the term banana republic and america's history of supporting dictators for economic gain but couldn't tell you how france went from revolution to its modern govt' exchange was all that bad of an exchange, but there's always gonna be holes.
One for the algorithm.
"Die kleine Leute" is still a thing in german language and how working class people often call themselves.
Generic algorithm boosting comment!
Wow, that is really good of thejournalis tohumanize natsees but not playing down.
A big talking point around Brexit was a disdain for "experts". The people who knew were horrified, but it worked incredibly well. Of course, it bit our government in the arse when, during covid, they were trying desperately to get people to pay attention to scientists. Not all the time of course, sometimes our government would ignore its own scientific advisors, claim they said something different, and reopen the country to tune of thousands of avoidable deaths. Which of course, only increased the perception of scientists as unreliable and made the anti-intellectualism and conspiracy theories worse.
On the note of Trumpism not having a strong idea, I also think Trump lacks a certain intentionality to his actions. Part of his fascist leanings come out of ignorance and blind instinct. He doesn't have a goal like Hitler or Mussolini. Not beyond "money and fame" and saying whatever he thinks his audience wants to hear because he's a salesman. He doesn't understand why what he does is wrong in the same way he doesn't understand why we don't use nukes.
"socialised medicine" 😂😂😂😂😂
People like having access to healthcare without going bankrupt... Fucking crazy, right?
Why is Sophie always talked-over?
Which one?
@@platedlizard Sophie.
@@abraxasjinx5207 Who? I must've missed it.
@@aristizle8797 the co-host?
wouldn't you say that it's classlessness that people want?
For the working class yes. That's usually the end goal of a communist society. Fascism is great for giant corporations, not regular people.
No.
@@petebondurant58 you can only speak for yourself.
How is the tiki torch gang a militia? Save for being warm corpses, i dont see any comparisons with brown shirts...
Literally marching in the streets chanting "Jews will not replace us!" A rather high profile murder happened at the United The Right rally, a day of many violent clashes between Reactionary Right Wing White Nationalists and those who showed up to oppose them. All analogous to events in the lead up the Nazi take over of Germany.
But sure... Any comparison is just overblown.
@@miguelvelez7221"You shouldn't compare Trump to Hitler, it's not accurate!"
Meanwhile Jan 6 is reminding me an awful lot of the Beer Hall Putsch...
Edit: no, but seriously: do people think Hitler just materialized one day and immediately started gassing people? He had to worm his way up to that point. Trump and other wannabes started out in the same exact place Hitler and Mussolini did.
This reminds me of all of the white, liberal college students cheering on Hamas now.
Really? It reminds me of all the people who use disingenuous accusations of antisemitism and support for terrorism as part of a narrative that attempts to justify genocide.