I was in Air Force Security at RAF Weathersfield, not far from Mildenhall during the time of this incident. Several major changes were implemented because of this incident. One that I remember was the requirement for a mobile security team to park their truck directly in front of any C-130 that was being "run up" (ground tested) by maintenance so as to block any possible attempt by the maintenance personnel to taxi the plane. We conducted this exercise for several months after the Meyer incident. The fate of the plane has been discussed for years, but most Air Force Security personnel know what happened .
Interesting, thanks for sharing. Did you guys ever discuss an incident that supposedly happened in the early 1950s, in which a mechanic or crew chief stole a B-45? It was mentioned in passing somewhere but I haven't been able to find any details.
@@sidv4615 Two F-4's from RAF Bentwaters shot it down over the Atlantic ... The Air Force couldn't afford for it to crash over land and possibly kill civilians ... The Air Force was acutely interested in maintaining a good relationship with the British government ....Its been enough years now that the truth is not so closely guarded .
My Dad was on-board AN RNXS coastal Minesweeper and took part in the search they found a large part of the crashed aircrafts undercarriage and part of the fuselage and towed it back to the channel Islands.
Very sad...I was at RAF Mildenhall when this happened. We were on Tdy from Pope Afb, NC for 3 months. I'll never forget this, or when Neil Armstrong walked on the moon while I was still in England.
The two times my squadron was TDY to Mildenhall it was for 75 days. Once in September 1969 and again in May 1972. More like 2 1/2 months instead of 4 1/2 months. My understanding was that all the C-130 SquadronsTDYs was for 75 days.
This is absolutely plausible. I was an Air Force aircraft ground engineer and you get to run the engines and also on flights watch the pilots. I was also on a C-130 squadron along with my Air Force wife ( who worked in the simulator building) Several times if we were bored at weekends we phone the simulator teams and asked if it ws possible to have 'jolly' flight. It amazed the simulator operator the very first time I tried the sim - I started the aircaft taxied and then flew it (speeded up to land in Hong Kong). If you have the knowledge of aircraft and the brains for it its not that hard to fly most airplanes! But it sad to hear of this poor Crew Chiefs ending like this.
I was in the 38 TAS at Langley in 1968 and flew as a flight engineer on a C-130E. I did not hear of this until a few years later. I was also stationed at RAF Lakenheath as an F-100F crew chief. There were no F-100s on conventional alert while I was there. There were nuclear armed aircraft but they never even taxied let alone take off. It doesn't seem plausible an F-100 could be preflighted, armed, and flown within the time frame of the C-130 leaving Mildenhall at that time of night. The 38TAS did deploy to Japan in the winter of 1968 for a three (?) month TDY to support the build up in Korea after the capture of the Pueblo. However, we were stationed at Na Trang because of the Tet Offensive was also going on. I didn't experience anything at Na Trang they would remotely trigger PTSD. The crew chiefs didn't fly with the airplanes and Na Trang was never under fire from the bad guys. We ran out of beer a couple of times and that was traumatic. The F-100s at Lakenheath were replaced by F4s but I don't know the dates. The C-130 would not be sitting on a ramp with a nuclear weapon without lots of security. Meyer would have been stopped by the AP security. If he didn't stop he would have been shot.
Firstly, thank you for serving, especially during the Vietnam conflict. What a mess that was. Secondly, I've heard several accounts of service men and women in Iraq claiming PTSD when I knew damned well that they never went outside the wire. When I was at Tikrit, I think we had a couple mortars come in for an entire year. The base is one of the biggest in Iraq and so the mortars didn't hit anything and most people didn't even know it happened. There's a lot of open areas all over the base. Yet somehow these people had PTSD? From what? Baghdad was a little different in some ways. It was still a huge base with a lot of open areas, but we did get rockets and mortars every once in a while. I suppose if someone was incredibly fragile mentally, that they might develop some PTSD. Some exceptions to that thought were a couple of guys smoking outside their combat housing unit (CHU) which was surrounded by tall concrete walls called T-walls. The projectile landed directly on their CHU, just a few feet away but they were protected by the concrete wall in the reverse way that it was designed. Most of their personal belongings were smoked. Unlike a contractor, they couldn't just up and leave. They were assigned a new CHU and had to drive on. That whole event was certainly not common. The amount of Soldiers actually out on convoy routes getting blown up by IED's or units in direct contact with the bad guys was a very small percentage of the overall force. I lucked out big time and our convoys never got hit with IED's and while performing my duties as a heavy machine gunner, I never had to fire a single shot. I've had a few people scoff at the fact that I never killed anyone or got in a gunfight. I'm much better off in the long run knowing for certain that I never had errant rounds go through some kid's house. I'm grateful that I don't have any type of PTSD to deal with, and cannot imagine how difficult it must be for those that truly deal with it daily.
Very good post, and believable. I was RAF Upper Heyford on E model Varks. We played a lot of games with nukes, and I can't imagine SP's letting an armed Vark just taxi on out for takeoff. It could not happen.
@@billmorris2613 I think he mixed up the nuclear alert duty F-100s and F-4s with the C-130 when he wrote that. Same as he seems to have mixed up C-130s and F-100s in his statement that crew chiefs don't fly with the aircraft. They do with the C-130 (at times) but never with the F-100 (which is after all a single seater).
When I was in basic training in the late 80’s, a fellow recruit went AWOL, a couple of times and returned and eventually one weekend, showed up with his wife of only a few months. It came to light that, he was the recipient of ongoing badgering from his wife about not being home and that was the reason he went AWOL, the reason why he was allowed to return, and the reason why she was seen at the local theater with him on the weekends. After several weeks he went AWOL again, disappearing with her for the last time. Wasn’t the first time a spouse, would be able to exert psychological pressure on a serving military member, causing them to do things that they might otherwise not do, and it certainly will not be the last time either. In some ways, I’m not sure who is to blame in these situations. In theory the service member knew what they were getting into, but the spouse is a different story…at the same time, you have to wonder if the spouse knew what kind of influence they were exerting on the service member, whether it was intentional or not, and what kind of trouble it would cause everyone in the long run.
I have heard and read quite a bit about this incident. At the time, I was a C-130 crewmember at Clark and flying in Vietnam. First, Meyer hadn't seen combat, he was a ground crewmember. I believe he had served a tour at Mactan or somewhere before he went to Langley. His squadron was TDY during the PUEBLO incident. He DID have a private pilot's license. Years ago I did a search on the FAA pilot registry and his name was on there with a Virginia address and a medical that had expired in the late sixties. (His wife claimed he didn't have one but I doubt she knew as much as she thought she did.) He WAS NOT SHOT DOWN! I talked to Maj. Gen. Bob Patterson, former commander of Air Force Special Operations Command, who was in Europe at the time and was tasked with briefing Tactical Air Command commander Gen. William Momyer on the incident when he came to Germany shortly afterward. Bob told me he was definitely not shot down, and that he believed he became hypoxic and lost control of the airplane. This is definitely possible since he was flying around at 10,000 feet but his brain was full of alcohol from a night of heavy drinking. By the way, he was not a crew chief, he was an assistant crew chief. I have the accident report posted on my web site - www.sammcgowan.com. It's linked to Sam's C-130 page. I have seen and at one time had the transcript of his radio communications with his wife but they somehow got lost over the years. His last words were "I've got a problem. I'll be back after I deal with it." I started out in aircraft maintenance on C-130s before I went on flying status and had a private pilot's license in 1969 (I went on and became a corporate pilot and flew for 40 years.) I took the stick a few times. Personally, I believe that Meyer was doomed when he left the ground. He never would have got that airplane back on the ground in one piece. Witnesses reported that he almost crashed on takeoff. There is no excuse for that he did, none.
My Dad took the Generals up in a C 130 to prove one man could fly it. When asked how, he explained that in flights to Vietnam they were taught in case the pilot was shot. He did have a crew on board that took over once he proved it could be done. I have heard this story most of my life and have also read the now unclassified papers, He still has them. He is now 86 and tells a lot of the stories from his long Military career. It still breaks his heart. He said Paul was a kind person who was homesick. It must have been very hard on a young man. I know my Mom had her hands full with 4 of us. I think My Dad returned from England after being on TDY for a year. He was gone so much of the time, it's hard to remember each time, how long he was gone for.
I suggested to The History Guy do an episode on this last year and he did. Foote was an instant legend that weekend. I had duty that morning and got a call from a buddy of mine at Tustin. I think my response during his story was “man, no way”.
When I was in the Air Force in the late 60s I was a C141 engine mechanic and regularly ran the engines. If I had known how to fly the airplane it would not have been difficult to steal a 141 and fly it away.
All, A flight of USAF Phantoms was dispatched with orders to turn him around or shoot him down as a "Hazard to Aerial Navigation." When they intercepted him, he ignored them and they flew past, closely, and control of the aircraft was lost. It was only one of about 10 "Block and Tackle" events in USAFE/ USAREUR from then to 1978. Hammer USAF 1971 - 1977 US Army Aviator,1982 - 1990 INS/ICE/CBP, 2002 - 2016
Hell of a career you've had there! Very cool. That's just an aside. Thank you for that very interesting information, it would certainly be understandable the decision by the USAF to do this. I thought it was brazen enough to use the HF radio through the phone patch for a very non-private conversation with his wife, as that's rule breaking enough. But to steal an aircraft is fascinating to a far greater level, even if intoxicated and with an altered mental status.
i dont recall ever seeing an F-4 at Lakenheath the role was not dogfighting, it was bombing with tactical nukes we had these obsolete fighters that couldn't do much else with high-hour pilots. old guys with years of nighttime flying and navigation skills. Trusted men that didn't drink and would take on one-way missions on last assignments before retirement.
Robert, They weren't dispatched from there. I believe it was from the 86TFW at Ramstein AFB, W. Germany. We had both a tactical nuclear response Zulu alert responsibility as well as an air-air Zulu alert function when I was there. Funny, one of the "Block-and-tackle" events was at Ramstein,but it was a US Army U-21 (civilian equivalent being an A-90 series King Air). He never got off the ground...Hammer
@@snowyowlz5992 They would have tried an aerodynamic upset, repeatedly, before expending the Sidewinder, as they cost, and an AU is just the cost of fuel, pre- and post-flight maintenance. Plus, if they'd have fired the AIM -9, they would have had to rotate another aircraft into the Zulu Alert shack, and more maintenance time to return it and make it mission capable again. I don't remember just what TO 1F-4E-1 has to say about that. Hammer
My C-130 squadron, 348th TAS from Dyess AFB TX was sent TDY to Mildenhall in September of 1969. I was an assistant crew chief on a C-130E and was about one year into my 4 year enlistment. I was an E-3, Airman First Class. We were told by several sources that Sgt Meyer was the crew chief, not the assistant. And that makes more since to me due to his 6 years of service. I got my first C-130 as a crew chief shortly after I returned from my first rotation to Mildenhall. I had recently gotten my 5 skill level which was an AFSC of 43151F. We were also told he had a commercial pilots license and was heading back home because he received a Dear John Letter from hIs wife. We were also told he was shot down because he was getting too close to France. We also understood his route over the English Channel was so he would stay over water, instead of land. I’m not sure if it was my first rotation to Mildenhall in Sep 1969 or the second one in the summer of 1972, but on one or possibly both rotations we had severed diplomatic relationships with France and was flying around France as we were not allowed to fly in their air space. Right after the theft of the C-130E from Mildenhall the method for securing the aircraft was to use a tie down chain and pad lock to lock the nose gear to the tie down ring in the ramp. The keys were given to the crew chief and assistant crew chief, with a third locked up in our Maintenance Officers office which the line chief also had access too. And anytime we had to run the engines for a maintenance check word was sent to the tower. If any of our aircraft started engines without a clearance from the tower fire trucks were dispatched to block the front and back of the aircraft. We could no longer do any taxi to the run up pad without a flight crew pilot in the left seat. When I got out of the regular Air Force after my 4 year enlistment was up in Sept 1972 I had an FAA commercial license with an instrument rating and a multi engine rating. All thanks to my GI Bill. During my second rotation to Mildenhall I did get to fly my C-130 several times. One of the crews I flew with often, had two Captains and both were instructor pilots. The one in the co pilots seat was going to the same flight school I was to get his FAA civilian commercial license. We use to share training flights together in a Cessna 182. We would land somewhere and swap out from the back seat to the left seat. We shared the same instructor. We became pretty good friends. I usually got in the left seat of my C-130 shortly after the aircraft was cleaned up and cruise climbing to our cruise altitude. The first time the Aircraft Commander was sick and wanted my bunk in the cockpit. I would usually fly the whole trip until we were around 10,000 feet on the decent, then swap out with the Aircraft Commander. Some of the highlights of my career. After I got out of the Regular AF I found out that the Air Force Reserves at Belle Chase Naval Air Station across the River south of New Orleans had C-130 Bs and needed flight engineers. I became a flight engineer and stayed until the C-130s left and A-7s took their place. So seat in the A-7 for me.
I believe the AFSC for anyone that was a crew chief on C-130's should have been 431x2, airlift and bombardment maintenance specialist. 431x1 AFSC was fighter aircraft. Sorry about the correction, I was a KC-135 crew chief back in the day.
william conrod No. My AFSCs were; 43131F out of tech school at Sheppard, 43151F when I got my 5 level, and 43171F, about 6 to 8 months later. My discharge Duty AFSC from my DD Form 214 is 43171F Crew Chief. The name of my craft was Aircraft Mechanic Turboprop. They were changed to different numbers many years ago in Oct 1993.
william conrod If I remember right all aircraft mechanics had the same AFSC of 431X1 with a letter suffix, F was for Turboprop. In October of 1993 the AFSCs were changed. When I went into the reserves shortly after being released from active duty at the end of my 4 year enlistment my duty AFSC changed to A43550A Flight Engineer Specialist for C-130s.
It's HIGHLY unlikely that they would shoot down an empty transport plane, regardless of whether or not it was stolen. Had it been an armed aircraft, with possible nefarious intent by the person flying it, that would be more possible.
I was a crew chief on C-130s at Mildenhall in '76 (MAC Rotation) and one of the guys in Job Control had been Meyer's roommate back when that happened, this story is mostly correct. The guy told me that Myers was for a fact shot down.
I will be honest, if you’re telling the truth about being a crew chief at Mildenhall, it would somewhat make sense to shoot him down as he could be seen as a threat to the safety of others.
He was a dead man flying at that point. Weather, lack of training, ocean cross, state of mind... No way he made it to the States and made a successful landing. 🤷🏻♂️
Enlisted servicemen are not "passed over" for promotion. While they may get blackballed for performance issues, there may not be available slots (especially in the USAF), or other logistical reasons. Officers getting passed over are another thing altogether.
Yes and no. Once an enlisted person in the US military reaches paygrade E-4 (Senior Airman in this case) promotions are no longer guaranteed. After completing required schooling, having at least "Meets Standards" assessments on their annual EER or NCOER (Enlisted Evaluation Report or Non-Commissioned Officer Evaluation Report), and passing mandatory annual qualification tests, a promotion board is held. The servicemember must then pass that promotion board, which is not a given, and be assigned in a promotable slot to actually be promoted. Moral character is one consideration a promotion board considers and if a soldier has a known problem with, say, alcohol, it can be deemed in the service's best interests to not promote that individual into a position of greater responsibility. Yes, it's not a career-ending event for enlisted personnel, and they can make needed corrections, try again, and pass. No problem, in theory. Officers are held to a tougher standard and getting passed over isn't good. Especially for junior officers who should be promoted from paygrade O-1 through to O-3 by simply knowing the basics and not screwing up. Getting passed over once looks bad and makes it harder to pass the second time. But it does happen, and the officer goes on to a successful career. Getting passed over twice for the same grade is a Bad Thing. Supposedly an officer only gets three tries before they are denied further attempts, but that's only hearsay on my part. In my 21 years in the service, I only knew of one officer who failed his first attempt, from Captain to Major (O-3 to O-4), and that was about the time I retired so I have no idea how things turned out for him.
With the narrator might have been alluding to was he failed the board because prior to WAPS the US Air Force rank system required every stripe earned to be the result of going before a board and beating out other candidates for the slot. Prior to WAPS, you had people retiring after 20 years as E-4s and E-5 s. , Good Men, a lot of the promotion boards were political and still are to this day for btz, if they really liked you you could get fast-tracking no matter who you were going up to compete against the winner was already determined before the board was ever convened.
@@jameshisself9324 Absolutely true, but the USAF promotion criterium appear to be along the same lines as the Army's with the main differences being required leadership schooling. That aside, my point is that enlisted servicemembers can and do get passed over for promotion. The specifics of how each branch of service handles promotions doesn't really pertain since at some point in the chain of command every service has minimum requirements and disqualifying criteria. Then there's also a unit's internal politics which can have an unfair bearing on promotions as well.
If I was going to pick an aircraft to shoot down a C-130, it'd definitely be an aircraft with better low-speed performance like a Hawker Hunter, compared to a BAE Lightning...
Fandango,if they were going to let him investigate it,they already would have.When everybody is gone that knows about,then they will say,oh ok,go right ahead.I wonder where that aircraft came from???
I was at RAF Lakenheath in '82 and '83 and surprised at the level of depression in so many airmen. They were in a country rich in history with decent transportation, everyone spoke English, and there was a lot to see, but they'd sit on base and complain about nothing to do and wanting to go home. With a nagging wife stateside and if he was like those guys, I can see him risking it all to go home. Bonehead move, though, as if successful, it would be a long time before he got to see her, as he'd be locked up for some time. People do stupid things not thinking how the consequences will destroy any chance of what they wanted to achieve. A former boss' son was mad the dad wouldn't give him his inheritance. So the son stabbed him to death to collect an insurance policy. Of course, he collects nothing but prison food today as a result.
Mr Meyer unfortunately lived in a time which was very slowly emerging from the "lack of moral fibre" military era where there was complete rejection of the idea that someone that had gone through the horrors of war could be affected mentally and emotionally. The military continues to make progress in this field, but it also drags its heels on the issue The biggest weaknesses in the military system of mental health care today is that 1) there is still a complete stigma attached to it, 2) by the time such mental aberration becomes obvious the sufferer is well on the way to a complete breakdown, 3) such behaviour is examined through the lens of military discipline rather than mental health and 4) decisions regarding the sufferer can come down to the whims of a base commander who may or may not appreciate the health issue and indeed may be completely dismissive of it.
I was stationed in the UK when this happened. The airplane was followed by 2 F-100, and others,. They kept an eye on him. If he, the C-130, went over the channel whomever could shoot him down were told to do so to prevent him crashing over London or any other British city. You all can fill in the blanks. I was an air traffic controller at the time.
Plausible….if the RAF has authorization to shoot it down. If the track provided is correct Myers was flying above mid English channel. Not towards a city. Unmentioned is whether the French Air Force was present.
@@Idahoguy10157 I have to be honest I have no idea who actually shot him down. It could have ben the RAF or the USAF I honestly don't know. All I remember is that if he, the C-130 was over water shoot it down. The UK was in jeopardy and so was Norther Europe. But, as I said, I have no idea who did what or when.
@@normanriggs848 … It’s been fifty years. No documentation of a shoot down has been found. Without primary sources there is no definitive proof that disproves the official account
I was in England, at another US base in England. I worked on aircraft, and knew many crew chiefs. One told me that shortly after the incident, all the crew chiefs were called in for a meeting, and they were told very clearly that if the tried to steal one of our F-4’s, they would be .shot down like Meyers. This could have been someone embellishing the story, but who knows. If they can explore the wreckage, that might answer the question. Also note, American relations with France at that time were very poor. The crew chief said that Meyers was shot down because he was close to France and could cause an international incident if he crashed on his own in that country. Which could have been a big motivation for shooting him down. The Air Force pretended that they had no idea where he crashed, unlikely because, you know, radar. But planes from my base spent much of the next day flying around and pretending to look for his wreckage. Meyers wasn’t the only heavy drinker on English bases. Drinking was quite common amongst the guys on my base. I knew eight guys who were killed or permanently disabled in car accidents during the three years I was there. Alcohol was involved in every case. And there were more deaths there among people that I didn’t know. It was a great place to be stationed during a war, but it wasn’t all peaches and cream.
@Cameron Garner Apparently he actually did request an adequate fuel load to reach the states, but yeah, as soon as malfunctions occurred or he got into instrument conditions, he'd have been toast. Good point re: shoot down.
RAF Hunters in 1969 were either ground attack and being replaced as such by Harriers, Phantoms and increasingly advanced trainers. They did carry 4 30mm cannon, for ground attack plus unguided rockets/bombs. The base this Hunter supposodly took off from was for advanced training.
It's a small wonder that he managed to perform a takeoff in intoxicated state, without formal pilot training, and get that far (as I understood conditions were IFR), while being a sole operator in a multi-person cockpit... I forgot maintaining radio communication. Broken man, tragic accident.
I came across a story some years ago that a USAF exchange pilot with a RAF Lightning squadron was launched at very short notice on an unscheduled flight with live weapons on the day this flight happened, returning with one missile expended. I have never seen any official confirmation or denial of this story, but it does make you wonder.
Sounds like he married the,wrong person. Remember that Life Magazine cover photo of the family running out on the tarmac at Travis AFB, after aircrew POWs were returned at the end of the Viet man war? His wife served him with divorce papers shortly after his release from captivity. Seems she found another tool. I know. His son and I went to school together. The wife would have her mom babysit while she went out to drink and get some. From what I recall, this happened fairly often. Women can be heartless, cold and selfish. I'm sure many men have made bad choices, after getting in relationships with these kinds of women.
Typical Soldier story. They whore around while you're away at war. It happened to me when i was in Iraq. And..she too did find another tool... Thank God!
Yep, buddy of mine was working as a private contractor in Iraq. Gave his wife durable power of attorney while he was gone. When he returned home he was met at the airport by the processor who handed him divorce papers, a restraining order and an order of protection. Blindsided the dude. Finds out that she transferred their home to her mother, traded off his truck, emptied their bank accounts, bought her new boyfriend a Harley and told the magistrate that he was mentally unstable, owned multiple firearms and she was in fear for her safety.
63 going on 64 later this year, I’ve never been married nor do I have any children, nor am I in a relationship w/a ‘significant other’. Was ‘married’ to the Army for 23 years & decided, even though my parents were married for 41 years before Dad’s passing; relationships were a lot of trouble. Every time I start to think maybe marriage & relationships aren’t so bad, a trip to Wal Mart reminds me to thank the Good Lord I’m not married or in a relationship.
@@jamessimms415 good man. If you need something, you pay a couple hundred and in an hour or so, you go your way and she goes hers. But, as far as a companion goes, you can't get anything better than a good dog.
I left moldy hole a year earlier. I can't say I blame him. you dont launch an F-100 unless you need it, he was shot down. Lakenheath is two miles as the crow flies from Mildenhall so he was being tailed the whole time they lined him up for a channel shootdown
My first Rotation to Mildenhall from Pope AFB in 1985 I was parked on hard stand 21 and at that time not knowing the history of that spot. I was informed a day later as to thats where the crew chief stole a C-130 along time ago...
Boy your experience is damn near the same as mine. I first flew into Mildenhall in 1986 for a TDY stop and one of our older loadmasters in the back on interphone, told us about the incident as he had been into Mildenhall several times. Flying for 8 hours over the Atlantic makes full dull past-time and the boredom is taken away with stories or yor. And boy flying a C-130, here there and everywhere makes for some interesting conversation. Of course after we were, gear up, flaps up and switched over to departure control, we would pull the circuit breaker on the voice recorder. And it never went back for the whole trip. That same load also told us the Brits are not fond of 'Yanks'. I told him, well maybe it was him. I found out soon, he was right. And I was on my best behavior, sober as a judge.
@@FacelessMan777 Parking in the hard stands across from the SR-71 hangers was nice. tWe would sit on the tail of our herc and watch them taxi and takeoff. I do wish I would have spent more time at Mildenhall to see more of England, but as a crew chief we were always someplace else in Europe and think we got the better deal with all the places we flew for those 3 month's on ROTE.
@@FacelessMan777 I was a C-130 crew chief. No U.S. military aircraft has ever been equipped with a cockpit voice recorder or flight data recorder. Those are only used on civilian aircraft.
@@honorguardsfencingclub7322 Now are you sure about that? How sure are you? Well I am darn sure of what I said because I flew C-130s all around the free world and did not occasionally get to go up in them. Now I have to take time out of my morning to straighten things out here because I do not like folks intimating that I may be lying or mistaken or fabricating a story. I have all of my flight gear from long ago. My C-130 dash-1 flight manual and my 2 1/2 in checklists are store out in the second floor of my barn and I don't go out there unless I absolutely have to . So I looked up the flight manual on the internet and you can do the same. Just look up AFMAN11-2C-130HV3. Now go to page 59 and look under Section 5F-Miscellaneous, then look at subsection 5.22 Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR). Now read it and realize, it describes the exact same procedure I described in my comment. Somehow my other comment was deleted, maybe I was a little too harsh. In that comment I had several links to articles and examples of C-130s and other UNITED STATES MILITARY aircraft that had cockpit voice recorders. Most of these links were from mishaps where the cockpit voice recorder was used to investigate the interactions, communication and crew coordination between crew members during the events that led to the mishap. Just for emphasis I will post a few here. I hate to do it as I have already wasted enough time on this b.s.: C-130 ditches due to fuel starvation; CVR transripts: tailstrike.com/database/22-november-1996-usaf/ Cockpit voice recorder pinpoints error in crash: www.upi.com/Archives/1992/04/13/Cockpit-recorder-pinpoints-error-in-crash/4087703137600/ Go look up the official United States Air Force Accident Investigation Report of WC-130H T/N 65-0968. On page 6, second paragraph from the bottom, you will read, "As captured by the cockpit voice (CVR), the MC did conduct the crew briefing during the Before Takeoff Checklist..." The whole crew coordination and intercom communications were recorded on the cockpit voice recorder; these communications stay inside the aircraft and are not broadcast outside the a/c on UHF/VHF or HF bands. So that is a wrap. I hope you learned the errors of your ways and the crow you are eating tastes somewhat bitter.
If the searching aircraft could not see the Surface of the sea in the position contact was lost then its likely Sgt Meyer couldn't either, so distracted by the radio he loses altitude and he crashes into the sea before his alcohol fuddled and distressed mind can work out what is happening or how to sort it out.
Read the book”The Lightning Boys”, Chapter 7, page 53. The pilot, Rick Groombridge, explains what happened on the night the C-130 went missing whilst he was on QRA duty.
One assumes that when it was discovered that he was extremely intoxicated, a command level decision was made that he could not be allowed to fly the US military aircraft over populated areas of Europe due to the risks he posed to those on the ground.. His choice gave the military no choice, better to lose the aircraft with one fatality than it crash onto densely populated areas. Dedpite the fact that he was quite a tragic figure, he was also potentially extremely dangerous and because he would not stop, he had to be stopped. No Pilot would have wanted to down him, but it became a necessity for the greater good. Had he been able to overcome his alcoholism and attained a level of mental stability, he could have achieved whatever he set his mind to.
An untrained operator of a complex, or simple, aircraft is not likely to be able to fly that aircraft to a successful landing. Flying over an ocean without instrument training is pretty near impossible. The chance of an untrained operator crashing a fuel laden plane in a populated area is pretty great. I agree that they waited for him to be over the Channel and when it looked like he'd make the coast they had to shoot him down. A plane going down in the water is much less dangerous than having it go down on land.
Not the sharpest tool in the shed. His wife sounds partly to blame however she should have known that being married to military personnel is always a not being home much job anyway. The alcohol destroyed him. RIP sergeant. It's incredible he got as far as he did with the little experience he had. Besides doesn't it take more than one person to fly that type of aircraft?
Your right, there not. Only air to ground. No one has mentioned the four F4 that turned up at St Magan and refuelled from Brentwaters. They were armed and should of been parked up on V.A.S.S. but they were put on the line. The spotters can see V.A.S.S. from the main rd. Off they went and returned to fuel and depart home. One had two missiles missing. Very unusual. Same day but time line does not fit. Also the location. Nose wheel was found floating off the Isles of Scilly unless the BBC got the location wrong.
Early in WW2, Pacific theater, a B17 was, um, borrowed for a booze run to a neighboring base by a pilot as they ran out during the Christmas party. Unforunately stalled/spun in after takeoff. So, I guess you can solo a 4 engine heavy airplane....
Also during WW2, a rear gunner from a B17 couldn't bail out. He went forward and flew the plane back to his base. The guy was not very big, or physically strong, but he brought that plane home.
Apparently they are very hard to land solo. The guy who bought one surplus for the gas station in Washington crashed on the test flight because he couldn't get the gear down by himself. At least, that is the published story.
The question is not how plausible the theory that he crashed from pilot error was versus being shot down, but rather why would the military NOT decide to shoot him down. It would seem that shooting him down reduces the risk of his causing civilian deaths which would provoke questions as to the competence of the military to protect the public. There is little chance that the aircraft could be recovered since Meyer would not be capable of landing it safely even if he managed to reach an airfield somewhere. Since shooting him down would have protected the military and since his emergence over the Channel presented the best first chance of eliminating the risk to civilians, it seems most likely that the military did indeed shoot down the plane.
Also it's possible he got shot down. Remember, it was the middle of the cold war, and Soviet bombers frequently violated British airspace. On radar he's just a blip, if his transponder was not turned on, not working, or had the wrong codes, he may not had shown as friendly aircraft. There was bad weather, so visual identification could have been difficult. Lots of countries have C-130s. The air commander may have authorized/been authorized to shoot down an unknown aircraft, with unknown intentions.
Hold on a minute, this guy convinces everyone he"s a captain WHILE COMPLETELY PISSED OUT OF HIS HEAD and takes a four engine heavy transport for a joyride? What sort of IDIOTS do they have in the US forces? No wonder Calley got away with it!
He was shot down. They had no choice. Deal with it. Some idiots STILL think that flight 93 wasn't shot down. It may never be declassified but trust the retired Air Force members that witnessed the event.
Hey dum dum, there were no hijackers. There were no aircraft remains found in Shanksville, PA. Just a hole in the ground. Flight 93 was a phony flight. Just like all the flights involved that day. "Art students" (a.k.a. Mossad) had been wiring up the towers for months. In the bigger picture....you always gotta ask CUI BONO?
I always thought so about flight 93. Why would the military not shoot it down since the passengers were not going to survive in any case? Anyway, it seems to be clear that VP Cheney ordered it to be shot down even though a VP is not in the chain of command and has no authority to order any military to do anything.
Oh good grief....amazing then with hindsight how the Air Force suddenly regained their composure & responded so quickly during the total chaos & uncertainty during the time period on that particular day then......always someone with a conspiracy theory on how events happened.
@@_Ben4810It has been known for some time that VP Cheney gave the order to shoot down flight 93, even though the Vice President of the United States is not in the chain of command and lacks the authority to order the military to do anything. Regaining composure? The first crash into the WTC was at 8:46 AM. At 8:42 the FAA ordered all civilian flights in the US to land ASAP. At 9:45 the White House is evacuated. Flight 93 crashed at 10:03. So, yeah I guess you couldn't possibly expect the Air Force to get a fighter into the air on such short notice.
I’m Paul’s stepson. The surprising thing here is the narrator talks about his alcoholism? But just assumes he has PTSD. He was never a big drinker certainly not an alcoholic and like many 23 year-olds he probably drank just like the rest of us did. Unfortunately he didn’t steal a car he stole a plane. The truth of the matter is we are fairly confident on who shot the plane down that will more than likely come out in due time. It wasn’t the Americans but the Americans did give the go ahead. Lots and lots of coverups in this story and several reasons for it. Some reasons disproven others more credible.
He was a dead man flying at that point. Weather, lack of training, ocean cross, state of mind... No way he made it to the States and made a successful landing.
The story I heard was that the plane had a nuclear weapon on board & the Air Force just couldn't let that get stolen along with the plane. Oh, how embarrassing that'd be. So, Paul had to go. Golly, Paulie!
While I was not in the service in 1969, my experience with nuclear weapons in the AF in the mid-1980s, I can guarantee you no nuclear weapon would be stored on a plane for an extended period and never with out armed guards! Nukes require two officer control.
Why would a nuke be on a transport aircraft? It might be on a bomber, sitting alert/between sorties. But it would not be unattended. If it was in the process of being transported as others have said, it would be surrounded by guards and lethal force would probably be authorized 🔫!!
@@ghostrider88jinetedelfanta31 nukes have to be transported infrequently for replacement and service. I pulled that duty as part of two officer escort a fair number of time. They do not fly the bomber around just to transport. And there are plenty of tactical nukes, nukes for fighters, and etc.
@@goldgeologist5320 Bullshit! As a matter of policy and practice, they used BUFFs to transport nukes to storage at other locations. Also, those nukes are always transported by officers and crew members with top secret clearance, credentialed for handling nuclear weapons. Any nuke that would be transported on a C-130 would have an officer credentialed to be with that nuke and at least one armed courier. A nuke would never be left on a regular ramp in an unguarded position. There would be a WSSF troop and an armed courier with that nuke until it was at its secured destination. Where do you people get your bullshit from? Is it phony war stories at the stolen valor bar full if wanna a be civilians or mess cooks turned '4 tour Navy SEAL'?
Lakenheath is two miles as a crow flies from Mildenhall he was followed the entire time and was lined up in the channel for the shootdown so no ground casualties would happen. lakenheath was a nuclear fighter bomber base at that time, Mildenhall was a KC-135 transport refuel and EC-135H doomsday plane and SR-71 recon base. It's possible the C-130 was moving nukes for Lakenheath.
No I can’t believe the RAF would just shoot it down, such an order (with the implied political fallout) would have to come from no10. If heading towards France, the French government would be informed and left to deal with it.
Professional Journalist ''style'' is ro refer to the subject by their last name only, after first referencing their full name by First, Middle Initial, and Last names.
Even if he had a pilots licence, the odds of an unqualified pilot making a successful TRANSATLANTIC flight are extremely low. I don't think it's a question of, if he ran into trouble, but when! 🪂
And especially an unqualified pilot flying at night. As suggested, suddenly encountering IMC due to flying into cloud would've seen the end of the flight well within 3 minutes.
@@vk2ig No way an untrained operator could fly in IMC, at night, or even during the day over open water out of sight of land. The water and sky can look like the same thing and can be disorienting. Not a pilot, not trained in instrument flying, not going to fly too far in the dark, over water, or in IMC.
I was in Air Force Security at RAF Weathersfield, not far from Mildenhall during the time of this incident. Several major changes were implemented because of this incident. One that I remember was the requirement for a mobile security team to park their truck directly in front of any C-130 that was being "run up" (ground tested) by maintenance so as to block any possible attempt by the maintenance personnel to taxi the plane. We conducted this exercise for several months after the Meyer incident. The fate of the plane has been discussed for years, but most Air Force Security personnel know what happened .
Interesting, thanks for sharing. Did you guys ever discuss an incident that supposedly happened in the early 1950s, in which a mechanic or crew chief stole a B-45? It was mentioned in passing somewhere but I haven't been able to find any details.
@@AviationHorrors Never heard of that one .... I was in England for 3 yrs. in the late '60's .... We didn't hear much about the '50's ....
Aviation Horrors My guess is that if you can’t find any info on it, there is a good chance it is only a rumor.
@@MrJubbey in reference to your last line, what exactly do you think happened?
@@sidv4615 Two F-4's from RAF Bentwaters shot it down over the Atlantic ... The Air Force couldn't afford for it to crash over land and possibly kill civilians ... The Air Force was acutely interested in maintaining a good relationship with the British government ....Its been enough years now that the truth is not so closely guarded .
C-130s are so old but still gorgeous. Something about them just screams it's the epitome of what a plane should look like.
My Dad was on-board AN RNXS coastal Minesweeper and took part in the search they found a large part of the crashed aircrafts undercarriage and part of the fuselage and towed it back to the channel Islands.
Interesting, thanks for sharing!
Very sad...I was at RAF Mildenhall when this happened. We were on Tdy from Pope Afb, NC for 3 months. I'll never forget this, or when Neil Armstrong walked on the moon while I was still in England.
Dude was only on TDY for 4 months and was so homesick that he felt this was the answer? Jeez. Just do your short time and then go back home.
The two times my squadron was TDY to Mildenhall it was for 75 days. Once in September 1969 and again in May 1972. More like 2 1/2 months instead of 4 1/2 months. My understanding was that all the C-130 SquadronsTDYs was for 75 days.
You some kind of expert
Graham Jordan Who are you referring to?
PTSD is not known for improving one’s rational processes.
This is absolutely plausible. I was an Air Force aircraft ground engineer and you get to run the engines and also on flights watch the pilots. I was also on a C-130 squadron along with my Air Force wife ( who worked in the simulator building) Several times if we were bored at weekends we phone the simulator teams and asked if it ws possible to have 'jolly' flight. It amazed the simulator operator the very first time I tried the sim - I started the aircaft taxied and then flew it (speeded up to land in Hong Kong). If you have the knowledge of aircraft and the brains for it its not that hard to fly most airplanes! But it sad to hear of this poor Crew Chiefs ending like this.
I was in the 38 TAS at Langley in 1968 and flew as a flight engineer on a C-130E. I did not hear of this until a few years later. I was also stationed at RAF Lakenheath as an F-100F crew chief. There were no F-100s on conventional alert while I was there. There were nuclear armed aircraft but they never even taxied let alone take off. It doesn't seem plausible an F-100 could be preflighted, armed, and flown within the time frame of the C-130 leaving Mildenhall at that time of night. The 38TAS did deploy to Japan in the winter of 1968 for a three (?) month TDY to support the build up in Korea after the capture of the Pueblo. However, we were stationed at Na Trang because of the Tet Offensive was also going on. I didn't experience anything at Na Trang they would remotely trigger PTSD. The crew chiefs didn't fly with the airplanes and Na Trang was never under fire from the bad guys. We ran out of beer a couple of times and that was traumatic. The F-100s at Lakenheath were replaced by F4s but I don't know the dates. The C-130 would not be sitting on a ramp with a nuclear weapon without lots of security. Meyer would have been stopped by the AP security. If he didn't stop he would have been shot.
Firstly, thank you for serving, especially during the Vietnam conflict. What a mess that was. Secondly, I've heard several accounts of service men and women in Iraq claiming PTSD when I knew damned well that they never went outside the wire. When I was at Tikrit, I think we had a couple mortars come in for an entire year. The base is one of the biggest in Iraq and so the mortars didn't hit anything and most people didn't even know it happened. There's a lot of open areas all over the base. Yet somehow these people had PTSD? From what?
Baghdad was a little different in some ways. It was still a huge base with a lot of open areas, but we did get rockets and mortars every once in a while. I suppose if someone was incredibly fragile mentally, that they might develop some PTSD. Some exceptions to that thought were a couple of guys smoking outside their combat housing unit (CHU) which was surrounded by tall concrete walls called T-walls. The projectile landed directly on their CHU, just a few feet away but they were protected by the concrete wall in the reverse way that it was designed. Most of their personal belongings were smoked. Unlike a contractor, they couldn't just up and leave. They were assigned a new CHU and had to drive on. That whole event was certainly not common. The amount of Soldiers actually out on convoy routes getting blown up by IED's or units in direct contact with the bad guys was a very small percentage of the overall force. I lucked out big time and our convoys never got hit with IED's and while performing my duties as a heavy machine gunner, I never had to fire a single shot. I've had a few people scoff at the fact that I never killed anyone or got in a gunfight. I'm much better off in the long run knowing for certain that I never had errant rounds go through some kid's house. I'm grateful that I don't have any type of PTSD to deal with, and cannot imagine how difficult it must be for those that truly deal with it daily.
Very good post, and believable. I was RAF Upper Heyford on E model Varks. We played a lot of games with nukes, and I can't imagine SP's letting an armed Vark just taxi on out for takeoff. It could not happen.
I have never heard anything about the stolen C-130 having a nuclear weapon on board.
Yes, that's roughly the same procedure we had for Nuclear security.
@@billmorris2613 I think he mixed up the nuclear alert duty F-100s and F-4s with the C-130 when he wrote that.
Same as he seems to have mixed up C-130s and F-100s in his statement that crew chiefs don't fly with the aircraft. They do with the C-130 (at times) but never with the F-100 (which is after all a single seater).
When I was in basic training in the late 80’s, a fellow recruit went AWOL, a couple of times and returned and eventually one weekend, showed up with his wife of only a few months. It came to light that, he was the recipient of ongoing badgering from his wife about not being home and that was the reason he went AWOL, the reason why he was allowed to return, and the reason why she was seen at the local theater with him on the weekends. After several weeks he went AWOL again, disappearing with her for the last time.
Wasn’t the first time a spouse, would be able to exert psychological pressure on a serving military member, causing them to do things that they might otherwise not do, and it certainly will not be the last time either.
In some ways, I’m not sure who is to blame in these situations. In theory the service member knew what they were getting into, but the spouse is a different story…at the same time, you have to wonder if the spouse knew what kind of influence they were exerting on the service member, whether it was intentional or not, and what kind of trouble it would cause everyone in the long run.
I have heard and read quite a bit about this incident. At the time, I was a C-130 crewmember at Clark and flying in Vietnam. First, Meyer hadn't seen combat, he was a ground crewmember. I believe he had served a tour at Mactan or somewhere before he went to Langley. His squadron was TDY during the PUEBLO incident. He DID have a private pilot's license. Years ago I did a search on the FAA pilot registry and his name was on there with a Virginia address and a medical that had expired in the late sixties. (His wife claimed he didn't have one but I doubt she knew as much as she thought she did.) He WAS NOT SHOT DOWN! I talked to Maj. Gen. Bob Patterson, former commander of Air Force Special Operations Command, who was in Europe at the time and was tasked with briefing Tactical Air Command commander Gen. William Momyer on the incident when he came to Germany shortly afterward. Bob told me he was definitely not shot down, and that he believed he became hypoxic and lost control of the airplane. This is definitely possible since he was flying around at 10,000 feet but his brain was full of alcohol from a night of heavy drinking. By the way, he was not a crew chief, he was an assistant crew chief. I have the accident report posted on my web site - www.sammcgowan.com. It's linked to Sam's C-130 page. I have seen and at one time had the transcript of his radio communications with his wife but they somehow got lost over the years. His last words were "I've got a problem. I'll be back after I deal with it." I started out in aircraft maintenance on C-130s before I went on flying status and had a private pilot's license in 1969 (I went on and became a corporate pilot and flew for 40 years.) I took the stick a few times. Personally, I believe that Meyer was doomed when he left the ground. He never would have got that airplane back on the ground in one piece. Witnesses reported that he almost crashed on takeoff. There is no excuse for that he did, none.
My Dad took the Generals up in a C 130 to prove one man could fly it. When asked how, he explained that in flights to Vietnam they were taught in case the pilot was shot. He did have a crew on board that took over once he proved it could be done. I have heard this story most of my life and have also read the now unclassified papers, He still has them. He is now 86 and tells a lot of the stories from his long Military career. It still breaks his heart. He said Paul was a kind person who was homesick. It must have been very hard on a young man. I know my Mom had her hands full with 4 of us. I think My Dad returned from England after being on TDY for a year. He was gone so much of the time, it's hard to remember each time, how long he was gone for.
I knew a Marine who stole an A4M Skyhawk in the 80s. It was July 4 weekend and L/Cpl Foote stole the A4 flew around LA and landed it back in El Toro
I suggested to The History Guy do an episode on this last year and he did. Foote was an instant legend that weekend. I had duty that morning and got a call from a buddy of mine at Tustin. I think my response during his story was “man, no way”.
@@CoondawgPD I was an Avionics guy on A4M (mos 6312)
@@eshelly4205 I trained with VMA-131 back in the day at Yuma. WTI I think
@@CoondawgPD 131 was reserved correct…(I could just google it . Lol)
@@eshelly4205 I guess. I just thought those A-4’s looked so cool with the Diamond back going down the avionics hump.
RAF Mildenhall and RAF Lakenheath are right next to each other and are still used for tankers, transports and for fighters respectively.
Interesting story I have not heard before, thanks for sharing.
at 5:00 why is he wearing what appears to be an Army Green shirt vice Air Force Blue?
Probably due to the color of the pictures fading. This usually gives pictures a yellowish tint.
When I was in the Air Force in the late 60s I was a C141 engine mechanic and regularly ran the engines. If I had known how to fly the airplane it would not have been difficult to steal a 141 and fly it away.
This one didn't make the regular news but I read of it an an issue of SOF magazine (Dad's-retired-USMC aviation).
This was all over the regular news including Time magazine among others!
All, A flight of USAF Phantoms was dispatched with orders to turn him around or shoot him down as a "Hazard to Aerial Navigation." When they intercepted him, he ignored them and they flew past, closely, and control of the aircraft was lost. It was only one of about 10 "Block and Tackle" events in USAFE/
USAREUR from then to 1978.
Hammer
USAF 1971 - 1977
US Army Aviator,1982 - 1990
INS/ICE/CBP, 2002 - 2016
Hell of a career you've had there! Very cool. That's just an aside. Thank you for that very interesting information, it would certainly be understandable the decision by the USAF to do this. I thought it was brazen enough to use the HF radio through the phone patch for a very non-private conversation with his wife, as that's rule breaking enough. But to steal an aircraft is fascinating to a far greater level, even if intoxicated and with an altered mental status.
i dont recall ever seeing an F-4 at Lakenheath the role was not dogfighting, it was bombing with tactical nukes we had these obsolete fighters that couldn't do much else with high-hour pilots. old guys with years of nighttime flying and navigation skills. Trusted men that didn't drink and would take on one-way missions on last assignments before retirement.
Robert, They weren't dispatched from there. I believe it was from the 86TFW at Ramstein AFB, W. Germany. We had both a tactical nuclear response Zulu alert responsibility as well as an air-air Zulu
alert function when I was there. Funny, one of the "Block-and-tackle" events was at Ramstein,but it was a US Army U-21 (civilian equivalent being an A-90 series King Air). He never got off the ground...Hammer
AIM-9s likely.
@@snowyowlz5992 They would have tried an aerodynamic upset, repeatedly, before expending the Sidewinder, as they cost, and an AU is just the cost of fuel, pre- and post-flight maintenance. Plus, if they'd have fired the AIM -9, they would have had to rotate another aircraft into the Zulu Alert shack, and more maintenance time to return it and make it mission capable again. I don't remember just what TO 1F-4E-1 has to say about that. Hammer
I WAS DEPLOYED TO MILDENHALL RAF. WE WERE TOLD OF GHOST OF HARDSTAND 21 . THAT HIS GHOST WONDERS STILL.
His ghost absolutely was there when i was
My C-130 squadron, 348th TAS from Dyess AFB TX was sent TDY to Mildenhall in September of 1969. I was an assistant crew chief on a C-130E and was about one year into my 4 year enlistment. I was an E-3, Airman First Class.
We were told by several sources that Sgt Meyer was the crew chief, not the assistant. And that makes more since to me due to his 6 years of service. I got my first C-130 as a crew chief shortly after I returned from my first rotation to Mildenhall. I had recently gotten my 5 skill level which was an AFSC of 43151F.
We were also told he had a commercial pilots license and was heading back home because he received a Dear John Letter from hIs wife. We were also told he was shot down because he was getting too close to France. We also understood his route over the English Channel was so he would stay over water, instead of land.
I’m not sure if it was my first rotation to Mildenhall in Sep 1969 or the second one in the summer of 1972, but on one or possibly both rotations we had severed diplomatic relationships with France and was flying around France as we were not allowed to fly in their air space.
Right after the theft of the C-130E from Mildenhall the method for securing the aircraft was to use a tie down chain and pad lock to lock the nose gear to the tie down ring in the ramp. The keys were given to the crew chief and assistant crew chief, with a third locked up in our Maintenance Officers office which the line chief also had access too.
And anytime we had to run the engines for a maintenance check word was sent to the tower. If any of our aircraft started engines without a clearance from the tower fire trucks were dispatched to block the front and back of the aircraft. We could no longer do any taxi to the run up pad without a flight crew pilot in the left seat.
When I got out of the regular Air Force after my 4 year enlistment was up in Sept 1972 I had an FAA commercial license with an instrument rating and a multi engine rating. All thanks to my GI Bill. During my second rotation to Mildenhall I did get to fly my C-130 several times. One of the crews I flew with often, had two Captains and both were instructor pilots.
The one in the co pilots seat was going to the same flight school I was to get his FAA civilian commercial license. We use to share training flights together in a Cessna 182. We would land somewhere and swap out from the back seat to the left seat. We shared the same instructor. We became pretty good friends.
I usually got in the left seat of my C-130 shortly after the aircraft was cleaned up and cruise climbing to our cruise altitude. The first time the Aircraft Commander was sick and wanted my bunk in the cockpit. I would usually fly the whole trip until we were around 10,000 feet on the decent, then swap out with the Aircraft Commander. Some of the highlights of my career.
After I got out of the Regular AF I found out that the Air Force Reserves at Belle Chase Naval Air Station across the River south of New Orleans had C-130 Bs and needed flight engineers. I became a flight engineer and stayed until the C-130s left and A-7s took their place. So seat in the A-7 for me.
I assure you there was no “dear John letter”!
Henry Ayer How can you assure us there was not a Desr John Letter?
I believe the AFSC for anyone that was a crew chief on C-130's should have been 431x2, airlift and bombardment maintenance specialist. 431x1 AFSC was fighter aircraft. Sorry about the correction, I was a KC-135 crew chief back in the day.
william conrod No. My AFSCs were; 43131F out of tech school at Sheppard, 43151F when I got my 5 level, and 43171F, about 6 to 8 months later. My discharge Duty AFSC from my DD Form 214 is 43171F Crew Chief. The name of my craft was Aircraft Mechanic Turboprop. They were changed to different numbers many years ago in Oct 1993.
william conrod If I remember right all aircraft mechanics had the same AFSC of 431X1 with a letter suffix, F was for Turboprop. In October of 1993 the AFSCs were changed. When I went into the reserves shortly after being released from active duty at the end of my 4 year enlistment my duty AFSC changed to A43550A Flight Engineer Specialist for C-130s.
It's HIGHLY unlikely that they would shoot down an empty transport plane, regardless of whether or not it was stolen. Had it been an armed aircraft, with possible nefarious intent by the person flying it, that would be more possible.
I remember listening to this on AFVN DaNang
I was a crew chief on C-130s at Mildenhall in '76 (MAC Rotation) and one of the guys in Job Control had been Meyer's roommate back when that happened, this story is mostly correct. The guy told me that Myers was for a fact shot down.
I will be honest, if you’re telling the truth about being a crew chief at Mildenhall, it would somewhat make sense to shoot him down as he could be seen as a threat to the safety of others.
@@raven_1133 Obviously the dude lost his mind. Sad situation.
I was out of Dyess (463rd OMS).
@@AtomicSquirrelHunter ah yes, that’s more believable.
He was a dead man flying at that point. Weather, lack of training, ocean cross, state of mind...
No way he made it to the States and made a successful landing. 🤷🏻♂️
@@badlandskid He was shot down by other USAF assets. They recovered arious parts.
Did something similar happen 1950ish to a B45 Tornado.?
Yes😭
Enlisted servicemen are not "passed over" for promotion. While they may get blackballed for performance issues, there may not be available slots (especially in the USAF), or other logistical reasons. Officers getting passed over are another thing altogether.
Yes and no. Once an enlisted person in the US military reaches paygrade E-4 (Senior Airman in this case) promotions are no longer guaranteed. After completing required schooling, having at least "Meets Standards" assessments on their annual EER or NCOER (Enlisted Evaluation Report or Non-Commissioned Officer Evaluation Report), and passing mandatory annual qualification tests, a promotion board is held. The servicemember must then pass that promotion board, which is not a given, and be assigned in a promotable slot to actually be promoted. Moral character is one consideration a promotion board considers and if a soldier has a known problem with, say, alcohol, it can be deemed in the service's best interests to not promote that individual into a position of greater responsibility. Yes, it's not a career-ending event for enlisted personnel, and they can make needed corrections, try again, and pass. No problem, in theory. Officers are held to a tougher standard and getting passed over isn't good. Especially for junior officers who should be promoted from paygrade O-1 through to O-3 by simply knowing the basics and not screwing up. Getting passed over once looks bad and makes it harder to pass the second time. But it does happen, and the officer goes on to a successful career. Getting passed over twice for the same grade is a Bad Thing. Supposedly an officer only gets three tries before they are denied further attempts, but that's only hearsay on my part. In my 21 years in the service, I only knew of one officer who failed his first attempt, from Captain to Major (O-3 to O-4), and that was about the time I retired so I have no idea how things turned out for him.
With the narrator might have been alluding to was he failed the board because prior to WAPS the US Air Force rank system required every stripe earned to be the result of going before a board and beating out other candidates for the slot. Prior to WAPS, you had people retiring after 20 years as E-4s and E-5 s. , Good Men, a lot of the promotion boards were political and still are to this day for btz, if they really liked you you could get fast-tracking no matter who you were going up to compete against the winner was already determined before the board was ever convened.
@@rogerhinman5427 Depends greatly on the branch and the era. USN NCO promotion was nothing like that description in the 80s and 90s.
@@jameshisself9324 Absolutely true, but the USAF promotion criterium appear to be along the same lines as the Army's with the main differences being required leadership schooling. That aside, my point is that enlisted servicemembers can and do get passed over for promotion. The specifics of how each branch of service handles promotions doesn't really pertain since at some point in the chain of command every service has minimum requirements and disqualifying criteria. Then there's also a unit's internal politics which can have an unfair bearing on promotions as well.
@@karlhaber1904 "Diversity" is also a reason some people get promoted faster, despite what the military "claims".
If I was going to pick an aircraft to shoot down a C-130, it'd definitely be an aircraft with better low-speed performance like a Hawker Hunter, compared to a BAE Lightning...
It'll be interesting to see what they find when (if?) they finally dive the wreckage.
Fandango,if they were going to let him investigate it,they already would have.When everybody is gone that knows about,then they will say,oh ok,go right ahead.I wonder where that aircraft came from???
I was at RAF Lakenheath in '82 and '83 and surprised at the level of depression in so many airmen. They were in a country rich in history with decent transportation, everyone spoke English, and there was a lot to see, but they'd sit on base and complain about nothing to do and wanting to go home. With a nagging wife stateside and if he was like those guys, I can see him risking it all to go home. Bonehead move, though, as if successful, it would be a long time before he got to see her, as he'd be locked up for some time.
People do stupid things not thinking how the consequences will destroy any chance of what they wanted to achieve. A former boss' son was mad the dad wouldn't give him his inheritance. So the son stabbed him to death to collect an insurance policy. Of course, he collects nothing but prison food today as a result.
Reminds me of the story of Sgt Scratch, RCAF. Ended his spectacular career in a B-25 Mitchell.
Interesting story, I hadn't heard of that before but I'll add it to the list for potential future projects.
The guy was a bag of trouble but apparently one hell of a mechanic.
Just a late comment RAF Hunters never carried Air to Air missiles otherwise an excellent video...
Mr Meyer unfortunately lived in a time which was very slowly emerging from the "lack of moral fibre" military era where there was complete rejection of the idea that someone that had gone through the horrors of war could be affected mentally and emotionally. The military continues to make progress in this field, but it also drags its heels on the issue The biggest weaknesses in the military system of mental health care today is that 1) there is still a complete stigma attached to it, 2) by the time such mental aberration becomes obvious the sufferer is well on the way to a complete breakdown, 3) such behaviour is examined through the lens of military discipline rather than mental health and 4) decisions regarding the sufferer can come down to the whims of a base commander who may or may not appreciate the health issue and indeed may be completely dismissive of it.
I was stationed in the UK when this happened. The airplane was followed by 2 F-100, and others,. They kept an eye on him. If he, the C-130, went over the channel whomever could shoot him down were told to do so to prevent him crashing over London or any other British city. You all can fill in the blanks. I was an air traffic controller at the time.
Holy shit 😳
Plausible….if the RAF has authorization to shoot it down. If the track provided is correct Myers was flying above mid English channel. Not towards a city. Unmentioned is whether the French Air Force was present.
@@Idahoguy10157 I have to be honest I have no idea who actually shot him down. It could have ben the RAF or the USAF I honestly don't know. All I remember is that if he, the C-130 was over water shoot it down. The UK was in jeopardy and so was Norther Europe. But, as I said, I have no idea who did what or when.
@@normanriggs848 … It’s been fifty years. No documentation of a shoot down has been found. Without primary sources there is no definitive proof that disproves the official account
I was in England, at another US base in England. I worked on aircraft, and knew many crew chiefs. One told me that shortly after the incident, all the crew chiefs were called in for a meeting, and they were told very clearly that if the tried to steal one of our F-4’s, they would be .shot down like Meyers. This could have been someone embellishing the story, but who knows. If they can explore the wreckage, that might answer the question.
Also note, American relations with France at that time were very poor. The crew chief said that Meyers was shot down because he was close to France and could cause an international incident if he crashed on his own in that country. Which could have been a big motivation for shooting him down.
The Air Force pretended that they had no idea where he crashed, unlikely because, you know, radar. But planes from my base spent much of the next day flying around and pretending to look for his wreckage.
Meyers wasn’t the only heavy drinker on English bases. Drinking was quite common amongst the guys on my base. I knew eight guys who were killed or permanently disabled in car accidents during the three years I was there. Alcohol was involved in every case. And there were more deaths there among people that I didn’t know. It was a great place to be stationed during a war, but it wasn’t all peaches and cream.
Capt Epistien didn’t kill himself!
Yep
What is the most likely explanation of Meyer's fate, shot down by RAF Hawker Hunter or Lightning, or crashed due to "pilot" error?
@Cameron Garner Apparently he actually did request an adequate fuel load to reach the states, but yeah, as soon as malfunctions occurred or he got into instrument conditions, he'd have been toast. Good point re: shoot down.
RAF Hunters in 1969 were either ground attack and being replaced as such by Harriers, Phantoms and increasingly advanced trainers. They did carry 4 30mm cannon, for ground attack plus unguided rockets/bombs.
The base this Hunter supposodly took off from was for advanced training.
It's a small wonder that he managed to perform a takeoff in intoxicated state, without formal pilot training, and get that far (as I understood conditions were IFR), while being a sole operator in a multi-person cockpit... I forgot maintaining radio communication. Broken man, tragic accident.
I came across a story some years ago that a USAF exchange pilot with a RAF Lightning squadron was launched at very short notice on an unscheduled flight with live weapons on the day this flight happened, returning with one missile expended. I have never seen any official confirmation or denial of this story, but it does make you wonder.
Hunters were air to ground, no radar. A Lightning would of require a tanker.
Sounds like he married the,wrong person. Remember that Life Magazine cover photo of the family running out on the tarmac at Travis AFB, after aircrew POWs were returned at the end of the Viet man war? His wife served him with divorce papers shortly after his release from captivity. Seems she found another tool. I know. His son and I went to school together. The wife would have her mom babysit while she went out to drink and get some. From what I recall, this happened fairly often. Women can be heartless, cold and selfish. I'm sure many men have made bad choices, after getting in relationships with these kinds of women.
Typical Soldier story. They whore around while you're away at war. It happened to me when i was in Iraq. And..she too did find another tool... Thank God!
Yep, buddy of mine was working as a private contractor in Iraq. Gave his wife durable power of attorney while he was gone. When he returned home he was met at the airport by the processor who handed him divorce papers, a restraining order and an order of protection. Blindsided the dude. Finds out that she transferred their home to her mother, traded off his truck, emptied their bank accounts, bought her new boyfriend a Harley and told the magistrate that he was mentally unstable, owned multiple firearms and she was in fear for her safety.
@@medicstew that's what the word C.U.N.T was invented for
63 going on 64 later this year, I’ve never been married nor do I have any children, nor am I in a relationship w/a ‘significant other’. Was ‘married’ to the Army for 23 years & decided, even though my parents were married for 41 years before Dad’s passing; relationships were a lot of trouble. Every time I start to think maybe marriage & relationships aren’t so bad, a trip to Wal Mart reminds me to thank the Good Lord I’m not married or in a relationship.
@@jamessimms415 good man. If you need something, you pay a couple hundred and in an hour or so, you go your way and she goes hers. But, as far as a companion goes, you can't get anything better than a good dog.
I left moldy hole a year earlier. I can't say I blame him. you dont launch an F-100 unless you need it, he was shot down. Lakenheath is two miles as the crow flies from Mildenhall so he was being tailed the whole time they lined him up for a channel shootdown
I love Mildenhall!
My first Rotation to Mildenhall from Pope AFB in 1985 I was parked on hard stand 21 and at that time not knowing the history of that spot. I was informed a day later as to thats where the crew chief stole a C-130 along time ago...
Boy your experience is damn near the same as mine. I first flew into Mildenhall in 1986 for a TDY stop and one of our older loadmasters in the back on interphone, told us about the incident as he had been into Mildenhall several times. Flying for 8 hours over the Atlantic makes full dull past-time and the boredom is taken away with stories or yor. And boy flying a C-130, here there and everywhere makes for some interesting conversation. Of course after we were, gear up, flaps up and switched over to departure control, we would pull the circuit breaker on the voice recorder. And it never went back for the whole trip.
That same load also told us the Brits are not fond of 'Yanks'. I told him, well maybe it was him. I found out soon, he was right. And I was on my best behavior, sober as a judge.
@@FacelessMan777 Parking in the hard stands across from the SR-71 hangers was nice. tWe would sit on the tail of our herc and watch them taxi and takeoff. I do wish I would have spent more time at Mildenhall to see more of England, but as a crew chief we were always someplace else in Europe and think we got the better deal with all the places we flew for those 3 month's on ROTE.
@@FacelessMan777 I was a C-130 crew chief. No U.S. military aircraft has ever been equipped with a cockpit voice recorder or flight data recorder. Those are only used on civilian aircraft.
@@honorguardsfencingclub7322 Now are you sure about that? How sure are you? Well I am darn sure of what I said because I flew C-130s all around the free world and did not occasionally get to go up in them. Now I have to take time out of my morning to straighten things out here because I do not like folks intimating that I may be lying or mistaken or fabricating a story.
I have all of my flight gear from long ago. My C-130 dash-1 flight manual and my 2 1/2 in checklists are store out in the second floor of my barn and I don't go out there unless I absolutely have to . So I looked up the flight manual on the internet and you can do the same. Just look up AFMAN11-2C-130HV3. Now go to page 59 and look under Section 5F-Miscellaneous, then look at subsection 5.22 Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR). Now read it and realize, it describes the exact same procedure I described in my comment.
Somehow my other comment was deleted, maybe I was a little too harsh. In that comment I had several links to articles and examples of C-130s and other UNITED STATES MILITARY aircraft that had cockpit voice recorders. Most of these links were from mishaps where the cockpit voice recorder was used to investigate the interactions, communication and crew coordination between crew members during the events that led to the mishap.
Just for emphasis I will post a few here. I hate to do it as I have already wasted enough time on this b.s.:
C-130 ditches due to fuel starvation; CVR transripts:
tailstrike.com/database/22-november-1996-usaf/
Cockpit voice recorder pinpoints error in crash:
www.upi.com/Archives/1992/04/13/Cockpit-recorder-pinpoints-error-in-crash/4087703137600/
Go look up the official United States Air Force Accident Investigation Report of WC-130H T/N 65-0968.
On page 6, second paragraph from the bottom, you will read, "As captured by the cockpit voice (CVR), the MC did conduct the crew briefing during the Before Takeoff Checklist..."
The whole crew coordination and intercom communications were recorded on the cockpit voice recorder; these communications stay inside the aircraft and are not broadcast outside the a/c on UHF/VHF or HF bands.
So that is a wrap. I hope you learned the errors of your ways and the crow you are eating tastes somewhat bitter.
@@FacelessMan777 You are !00% correct John. 30 years on C-130's in maintenance. Crew chief through Pro. Super. Worked A,B,E, H, P and N models.
If the searching aircraft could not see the Surface of the sea in the position contact was lost then its likely Sgt Meyer couldn't either, so distracted by the radio he loses altitude and he crashes into the sea before his alcohol fuddled and distressed mind can work out what is happening or how to sort it out.
There is an interview with a QRA lightning pilot that said the raf sent a lightning and it was shot down
Read the book”The Lightning Boys”, Chapter 7, page 53. The pilot, Rick Groombridge, explains what happened on the night the C-130 went missing whilst he was on QRA duty.
Yep, it was shot down but def not released, adds to the lightning kills being all of allied aircraft
That took a lot of balls to steal a C 130 and try to pilot it by himself all the way to the USA. Crazy story for sure
Or a lot of booze.
Very interesting nd shocking story
One assumes that when it was discovered that he was extremely intoxicated, a command level decision was made that he could not be allowed to fly the US military aircraft over populated areas of Europe due to the risks he posed to those on the ground..
His choice gave the military no choice, better to lose the aircraft with one fatality than it crash onto densely populated areas.
Dedpite the fact that he was quite a tragic figure, he was also potentially extremely dangerous and because he would not stop, he had to be stopped.
No Pilot would have wanted to down him, but it became a necessity for the greater good.
Had he been able to overcome his alcoholism and attained a level of mental stability, he could have achieved whatever he set his mind to.
An untrained operator of a complex, or simple, aircraft is not likely to be able to fly that aircraft to a successful landing. Flying over an ocean without instrument training is pretty near impossible. The chance of an untrained operator crashing a fuel laden plane in a populated area is pretty great. I agree that they waited for him to be over the Channel and when it looked like he'd make the coast they had to shoot him down. A plane going down in the water is much less dangerous than having it go down on land.
Good afternoon from SE Louisiana 12 Jun 22.
Not the sharpest tool in the shed. His wife sounds partly to blame however she should have known that being married to military personnel is always a not being home much job anyway. The alcohol destroyed him. RIP sergeant. It's incredible he got as far as he did with the little experience he had. Besides doesn't it take more than one person to fly that type of aircraft?
I didn't think Hunters were equipped with air to air missiles.
Your right, there not. Only air to ground. No one has mentioned the four F4 that turned up at St Magan and refuelled from Brentwaters. They were armed and should of been parked up on V.A.S.S. but they were put on the line. The spotters can see V.A.S.S. from the main rd. Off they went and returned to fuel and depart home. One had two missiles missing. Very unusual. Same day but time line does not fit. Also the location. Nose wheel was found floating off the Isles of Scilly unless the BBC got the location wrong.
@@chriseggleton8753 I'd always heard it was Phantoms. I don't know if was RAF or USAF Phantoms
@@realMaverickBuckley The four ship were US Navy.
@@chriseggleton8753 Brentwaters ? 🤣
Early in WW2, Pacific theater, a B17 was, um, borrowed for a booze run to a neighboring base by a pilot as they ran out during the Christmas party. Unforunately stalled/spun in after takeoff. So, I guess you can solo a 4 engine heavy airplane....
Also during WW2, a rear gunner from a B17 couldn't bail out. He went forward and flew the plane back to his base. The guy was not very big, or physically strong, but he brought that plane home.
Apparently they are very hard to land solo. The guy who bought one surplus for the gas station in Washington crashed on the test flight because he couldn't get the gear down by himself. At least, that is the published story.
No way in hell that the RAF shot down a USAF C-130. Pilot error is much more likely given the circumstances.
USAF F-100S AND F106s were dispatched to knock him down when far enough over the channel.
@@realMaverickBuckley Even THAT is extremely hard to believe. Is there a published report on this?
And you are
@@grahamjordan1040 I know you are
Chances make champions!
The question is not how plausible the theory that he crashed from pilot error was versus being shot down, but rather why would the military NOT decide to shoot him down. It would seem that shooting him down reduces the risk of his causing civilian deaths which would provoke questions as to the competence of the military to protect the public. There is little chance that the aircraft could be recovered since Meyer would not be capable of landing it safely even if he managed to reach an airfield somewhere. Since shooting him down would have protected the military and since his emergence over the Channel presented the best first chance of eliminating the risk to civilians, it seems most likely that the military did indeed shoot down the plane.
I heard he was shot down by the 57th FIS off Iceland.
Also it's possible he got shot down. Remember, it was the middle of the cold war, and Soviet bombers frequently violated British airspace. On radar he's just a blip, if his transponder was not turned on, not working, or had the wrong codes, he may not had shown as friendly aircraft. There was bad weather, so visual identification could have been difficult. Lots of countries have C-130s. The air commander may have authorized/been authorized to shoot down an unknown aircraft, with unknown intentions.
Channel Isles /France is not anywhere near where the Russians could from.
MY MAN. stole a whole Hercules lol good game bro. I wonder if they're that easy to fly. Or if he has any experience
Well you wouldn’t take half of one would you?
@@grahamjordan1040 depends on the situation and if I had a buyer or a nice spot in the woods I could tow a premade "cabin" to
Hello, fuel dispatch? Yeah, this is Captain Yadda Yadda Yadda, I need a plane fueled for a trip to the states. Thanks.
Wow,,, I remember that.
Never heard the "shot down" theory, it was assumed he committed suicide.
Hold on a minute, this guy convinces everyone he"s a captain WHILE COMPLETELY PISSED OUT OF HIS HEAD and takes a four engine heavy transport for a joyride? What sort of IDIOTS do they have in the US forces? No wonder Calley got away with it!
It was Hard Stand 27
He was shot down. They had no choice. Deal with it. Some idiots STILL think that flight 93 wasn't shot down. It may never be declassified but trust the retired Air Force members that witnessed the event.
Crazy
Hey dum dum, there were no hijackers. There were no aircraft remains found in Shanksville, PA. Just a hole in the ground. Flight 93 was a phony flight. Just like all the flights involved that day. "Art students" (a.k.a. Mossad) had been wiring up the towers for months.
In the bigger picture....you always gotta ask CUI BONO?
I always thought so about flight 93. Why would the military not shoot it down since the passengers were not going to survive in any case? Anyway, it seems to be clear that VP Cheney ordered it to be shot down even though a VP is not in the chain of command and has no authority to order any military to do anything.
Oh good grief....amazing then with hindsight how the Air Force suddenly regained their composure & responded so quickly during the total chaos & uncertainty during the time period on that particular day then......always someone with a conspiracy theory on how events happened.
@@_Ben4810It has been known for some time that VP Cheney gave the order to shoot down flight 93, even though the Vice President of the United States is not in the chain of command and lacks the authority to order the military to do anything.
Regaining composure? The first crash into the WTC was at 8:46 AM. At 8:42 the FAA ordered all civilian flights in the US to land ASAP. At 9:45 the White House is evacuated. Flight 93 crashed at 10:03. So, yeah I guess you couldn't possibly expect the Air Force to get a fighter into the air on such short notice.
The background music isn’t junked another video 👎👎👎👎💩💩😬
I’m Paul’s stepson. The surprising thing here is the narrator talks about his alcoholism? But just assumes he has PTSD. He was never a big drinker certainly not an alcoholic and like many 23 year-olds he probably drank just like the rest of us did. Unfortunately he didn’t steal a car he stole a plane. The truth of the matter is we are fairly confident on who shot the plane down that will more than likely come out in due time. It wasn’t the Americans but the Americans did give the go ahead. Lots and lots of coverups in this story and several reasons for it. Some reasons disproven others more credible.
You just made a RUclips channel 23hrs ago 🤔 That's not suspect at all 😆🤣
@@EJ-74 😅😅 Good catch.
@@realMaverickBuckley 😆🤣✌️
Not sure what that’s supposed to mean.
He was a dead man flying at that point. Weather, lack of training, ocean cross, state of mind...
No way he made it to the States and made a successful landing.
Another armchair expert
@@grahamjordan1040 welcome to the club. You fit right in
Was told he was shot down by the old guys
The story I heard was that the plane had a nuclear weapon on board & the Air Force just couldn't let that get stolen along with the plane. Oh, how embarrassing that'd be. So, Paul had to go. Golly, Paulie!
While I was not in the service in 1969, my experience with nuclear weapons in the AF in the mid-1980s, I can guarantee you no nuclear weapon would be stored on a plane for an extended period and never with out armed guards! Nukes require two officer control.
@@goldgeologist5320 Mr.GOLD,that you for straighting that comment out.Yes,WMD are always guarded.
Why would a nuke be on a transport aircraft? It might be on a bomber, sitting alert/between sorties. But it would not be unattended. If it was in the process of being transported as others have said, it would be surrounded by guards and lethal force would probably be authorized 🔫!!
@@ghostrider88jinetedelfanta31 nukes have to be transported infrequently for replacement and service.
I pulled that duty as part of two officer escort a fair number of time.
They do not fly the bomber around just to transport. And there are plenty of tactical nukes, nukes for fighters, and etc.
@@goldgeologist5320 Bullshit! As a matter of policy and practice, they used BUFFs to transport nukes to storage at other locations. Also, those nukes are always transported by officers and crew members with top secret clearance, credentialed for handling nuclear weapons.
Any nuke that would be transported on a C-130 would have an officer credentialed to be with that nuke and at least one armed courier. A nuke would never be left on a regular ramp in an unguarded position. There would be a WSSF troop and an armed courier with that nuke until it was at its secured destination.
Where do you people get your bullshit from? Is it phony war stories at the stolen valor bar full if wanna a be civilians or mess cooks turned '4 tour Navy SEAL'?
Lakenheath is two miles as a crow flies from Mildenhall he was followed the entire time and was lined up in the channel for the shootdown so no ground casualties would happen. lakenheath was a nuclear fighter bomber base at that time, Mildenhall was a KC-135 transport refuel and EC-135H doomsday plane and SR-71 recon base. It's possible the C-130 was moving nukes for Lakenheath.
Can't do a Captain Epstein now, unfortunately ;-D
NO keys
No I can’t believe the RAF would just shoot it down, such an order (with the implied political fallout) would have to come from no10. If heading towards France, the French government would be informed and left to deal with it.
This dude looks like Oswald… Lol…
He was probably shot down, and the incident hushed up.
So nobody wanted to bring aboard a headless corpse! 😀
And you find that funny. 😔
💩
@@henryayer1095 why wouldn't you find it funny?
He was my father. Google me it you’d like.
I blame the wife.
Sounds very probable these there was a cognitive disconnect; he may have been bipolar or there was an underlying personality disorder.
Such a nonstory ripe with speculation.
Stop calling people by their last names. Call them by their first names.
Why do you care?
@@TheStig_TG It must mean something important to Hawkins for him to write this.
Professional Journalist ''style'' is ro refer to the subject by their last name only, after first referencing their full name by First, Middle Initial, and Last names.
U S Airforce only use surnames when talking to GI
@@toddabowden But NOT important enough to explain the reason for this peremptory demand? Don't you just love these self-appointed Emily Posts!
Drunks do the darnedest things.
Even if he had a pilots licence, the odds of an unqualified pilot making a successful TRANSATLANTIC flight are extremely low. I don't think it's a question of, if he ran into trouble, but when! 🪂
And especially an unqualified pilot flying at night. As suggested, suddenly encountering IMC due to flying into cloud would've seen the end of the flight well within 3 minutes.
@@vk2ig No way an untrained operator could fly in IMC, at night, or even during the day over open water out of sight of land. The water and sky can look like the same thing and can be disorienting. Not a pilot, not trained in instrument flying, not going to fly too far in the dark, over water, or in IMC.
Yes👏👏..... pissed-up, heading wrong, a BIG PIG TO FLY.... a sad sad story R.I.P younge man 🇬🇧 we salute you .