Just as there are registers and 'accents' in American englishes or any other langauge (french, spanish) there also are in Scots< and Gaelic(whether you call it "Irish" or Scottish Gaelic) and there are also old traditional dilects of english in england (annd hiberno-englishes) that all pre-date modern Standard English or RP or modern American English or "Gen Am' and reflect their origins, with wildly different accents. Anywhere in the u.s. you (usually) will find varied accents. Same goes for 'Irish'. One orthographic rendering of a word will never work for all the possible accents in said 'language' if there is an Orthographic Standard< taught and used 'officially'> Learn about where/when /whey 'orthographies' are created and who 'standardizes them'.. I would say you picked the wrong person to use an an example, and most all youtubers will be ROI/Donegal- ulster irish or gaeltacht/ROI speakers. Ulster-Irish (Gaeilge) is closer to Scottish Gaelic than this mans Gaeilge. It's a spectrum of dialects that was separated by land/islands , same written form (of Gaelic) was used into the 1600's its the one language and clearly intelligible to speakers of either. Irish and Scottish Gaelic are technically closer than Scots and English. The "c" and "g" are the same sound, these are just modern othrographic standards. Modern, contemporary, not old. These standards where not crafted to make it in any sense match 'english' . Craic< the 1970 borrow 'into gaelic' from Ulster Scots Crack (The same "Cracker" as in the u.s. Scotch-irish "crackers"
The 'scottish gaelic' for insects is a borrow from the Scots "Beece" or "wee beece" or "Beeshtie" (beeshts) as in english "Beast". Don't be fooled. Gaelic is the one language. scottish or irish it's all "Erse"< irish. Gaelic.
Scots Gaelic - in my opinion - is the best Celtic Language for if you are wishing to learn multiple Celtic Languages and from different branches (British & Irish) of that family. I pin that down to the fact it is an Irish language with faint Pictish influence - which we now know was closer to Welsh than Irish.
Good video - "The proper way to say Irish in Irish"? To (slightly) over simplify - 3 options: Gaedhlaing - which is Munster Irish, or Gaedhilge - which is Connemara Irish, or Gaedhealg - which is Ulster Irish. I'm from Ulster, I use "Gaedhealg", pronounced exactly the same way as Gaelic except it ends with a "g" sound, not "c". It's also the word used in all Irish dialects until the middle ages. Note that I use (one of the many) pre-1958 spellings, as I think it helps illustrate the diversity of usage of words for Irish, in Irish. In 1958 "An Caighdeán Oifigiúil" (The Official Standard) was introduced to give a standard written form to Irish, to simplify spelling, and to facilitate teaching (to potentially avoid teaching children 3 different Irish words, with 6 different spellings, for one English word, making their lives a misery). The actual word for Irish adopted in the 1958 Official Standard is "Gaeilge", which is the word you use in your video. You can probably see that "Gaeilge" is the simplified spelling of the Connemara word for Irish ("Gaedhilge"). This word is actually the genitive form of "Gaedhealg", which at some point also became the nominative form of the word in Connemara (unlike Ulster Irish where it remains the genitive form only). It is not the most commonly used word for Irish among native Irish speakers, but it is by far the most commonly word used by second language learners, due to the Official Standard. I notice you give two pronunciations. I would pronounce it as in Ulster Irish (without the "w" sound), but many pronounce it with a "w" sound. One thing you might find informative about the Scottish / Irish Gaelic divide or continuum is that the most north easterly part of Ireland is Rathlin island, which is only 13 miles from Islay, where Scottish Gaelic is still spoken. In the early 20th century some Irish academics felt they could not classify the Irish spoken on Rathlin as Irish, because it had so many of what they considered distinctively Scottish features. Rathlin islanders themselves considered their language Irish Gaelic, as they were Irish people who spoke Gaelic, obviously! Irish was (decreasingly) spoken on Rathlin until the 1980s. So, it's worth remembering that until the relatively recent past Gaelic was spoken from County Antrim to Argyll & Bute, and there are only 12 miles between them at the nearest points. We don't really know, as they no longer exist and we don't have recordings, but I suspect the mainland Gaelics on either side of Sruth na Maoile would have blended relatively seamlessly into each other. Last thing - like you I cringed when I heard the Irish speaker call Scots a dialect of English - it's like calling Spanish a dialect of Italian! But, like your video, I also really appreciate his video, and the information he took the time and effort to provide, all very interesting.
Thanks for all the info! I appreciate the extended response. Since I'd heard multiple pronunciations of Gaeilge, I figured it was due to the various dialects. Do you think that Gàidhlig is (in some ways) more conservative in sound and spelling compared to modern/standardized Gaeilge?
Hi carl since your trying to learn to learn the languages of the isles another language i recommend u should learn irish its similar to Scottish gaelic and u try come to ireland and visit the gaeltacht and if u dont what that is a gaelteacht is a place where people speak only irish Gaeilge fhada beo 🇮🇪❤️
I'm guessing that ui in Irish has undergone similar sound change to u in Welsh, becoming more fronted. North Welsh still pronounce it more rounded, like a Greek y. I already picked him up on the dialect / language point, that's partly how I got here. As I understand it the ga in gaeilge is broad, which affects the glide into e, Ulster pronunciation is much less w-coloured.
Is glè beag an Gaìdlig agam. Several years ago I was traveling in Cardiff and went to a pub called Ty Mawr. I asked my local friends if that meant “great house” in Welsh, to which their eyes boggled. 😆
In practice, intelligibility isn't given much weight in the language vs dialect debate. If you go to Kerry and talk to some farmers you'll see why even other Irish people can struggle to understand them. Indeed ireland is covered in many very different dialects that are barely intelligible to most of the English speaking world, sometimes to each other, and yet they all fall under the umbrella of the "Hiberno-Irish dialect". The decision to designate something a language is largely political.
An important thing to remember about Scottish and Irish Gaelic is that there is no standard spoken form of either language, but a variety of regional dialects. I've seen videos where a speaker of Scottish Gaelic and and a speaker of Irish Gaelic are having a conversation and apparently understanding each other without too much trouble because they are speaking very similar dialects. However, I have the impression that there are other dialects of each language that are very different, and speakers of those dialects might have more trouble understanding each other.
This is the video I was referring to in my previous comment with speakers of Irish and Scottish Gaelic in conversation. ruclips.net/video/8xdn-lqZONs/видео.html
@@CarlsLingoKingdom Halò Carl! The second time through the video, I did spot myself! Mòran taing for including me. Would you be interested in another meet-up now that the weather's a little more congenial? Please let me know.
Both 'gwaylga' and 'gaylga' are incorrect pronounciations of Gaeilge. There is a sound known as a 'glide' which comes from the slide from the broad g (which should be pronounced further back in the mouth than the English g) to the slender l, finishing with -e which is a 'schwa' sound and not an 'AH' vowel as it is commonly mispronounced by learners. I noticed you got no accurate answers in the comments to your question so there you go. Patchy, An Loingseach and Dazpatreg are the only youtubers who will teach you about native (non-anglophone/learner) Irish pronounciation. The book and website 'Fuaimeanna' is also quite good. Compared to other languages Irish is extremely lacking when it comes to the teaching of the phonetics of the language, maybe because ideologically there is a pretense that because someone is Irish they must automatically be able to have decent Irish pronounciation or maybe because there is a pretense that the schools/teachers (in general) are in any way competent at teaching that aspect of the language, or maybe simply because the majority of people teaching do not themselves have any mastery of the native phonology of the language, having themselves been taught by people with no knowledge of the phonetics.
Thanks for the info! I think I've also noticed some Irish speakers online who seem to speak with English oral posture. Makes me wonder how widespread the issue is.
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Just as there are registers and 'accents' in American englishes or any other langauge (french, spanish) there also are in Scots< and Gaelic(whether you call it "Irish" or Scottish Gaelic) and there are also old traditional dilects of english in england (annd hiberno-englishes) that all pre-date modern Standard English or RP or modern American English or "Gen Am' and reflect their origins, with wildly different accents. Anywhere in the u.s. you (usually) will find varied accents. Same goes for 'Irish'. One orthographic rendering of a word will never work for all the possible accents in said 'language' if there is an Orthographic Standard< taught and used 'officially'>
Learn about where/when /whey 'orthographies' are created and who 'standardizes them'..
I would say you picked the wrong person to use an an example, and most all youtubers will be ROI/Donegal- ulster irish or gaeltacht/ROI speakers. Ulster-Irish (Gaeilge) is closer to Scottish Gaelic than this mans Gaeilge. It's a spectrum of dialects that was separated by land/islands , same written form (of Gaelic) was used into the 1600's its the one language and clearly intelligible to speakers of either. Irish and Scottish Gaelic are technically closer than Scots and English. The "c" and "g" are the same sound, these are just modern othrographic standards. Modern, contemporary, not old. These standards where not crafted to make it in any sense match 'english' .
Craic< the 1970 borrow 'into gaelic' from Ulster Scots Crack (The same "Cracker" as in the u.s. Scotch-irish "crackers"
The 'scottish gaelic' for insects is a borrow from the Scots "Beece" or "wee beece" or "Beeshtie" (beeshts) as in english "Beast".
Don't be fooled. Gaelic is the one language. scottish or irish it's all "Erse"< irish. Gaelic.
This guy is a not an Ulster Scot so why would he know about Scots. Ulster-Dialect (Hiberno English) is basically mainly Scots borrowed words.
The Gaelic College in Cape Breton Nova Scotia teaches an older dialect of Gaelic using both fadas long and short.
Scots Gaelic - in my opinion - is the best Celtic Language for if you are wishing to learn multiple Celtic Languages and from different branches (British & Irish) of that family. I pin that down to the fact it is an Irish language with faint Pictish influence - which we now know was closer to Welsh than Irish.
Glad I made a wise choice!
Good video - "The proper way to say Irish in Irish"? To (slightly) over simplify - 3 options:
Gaedhlaing - which is Munster Irish, or
Gaedhilge - which is Connemara Irish, or
Gaedhealg - which is Ulster Irish.
I'm from Ulster, I use "Gaedhealg", pronounced exactly the same way as Gaelic except it ends with a "g" sound, not "c". It's also the word used in all Irish dialects until the middle ages. Note that I use (one of the many) pre-1958 spellings, as I think it helps illustrate the diversity of usage of words for Irish, in Irish.
In 1958 "An Caighdeán Oifigiúil" (The Official Standard) was introduced to give a standard written form to Irish, to simplify spelling, and to facilitate teaching (to potentially avoid teaching children 3 different Irish words, with 6 different spellings, for one English word, making their lives a misery).
The actual word for Irish adopted in the 1958 Official Standard is "Gaeilge", which is the word you use in your video. You can probably see that "Gaeilge" is the simplified spelling of the Connemara word for Irish ("Gaedhilge"). This word is actually the genitive form of "Gaedhealg", which at some point also became the nominative form of the word in Connemara (unlike Ulster Irish where it remains the genitive form only). It is not the most commonly used word for Irish among native Irish speakers, but it is by far the most commonly word used by second language learners, due to the Official Standard. I notice you give two pronunciations. I would pronounce it as in Ulster Irish (without the "w" sound), but many pronounce it with a "w" sound.
One thing you might find informative about the Scottish / Irish Gaelic divide or continuum is that the most north easterly part of Ireland is Rathlin island, which is only 13 miles from Islay, where Scottish Gaelic is still spoken. In the early 20th century some Irish academics felt they could not classify the Irish spoken on Rathlin as Irish, because it had so many of what they considered distinctively Scottish features. Rathlin islanders themselves considered their language Irish Gaelic, as they were Irish people who spoke Gaelic, obviously! Irish was (decreasingly) spoken on Rathlin until the 1980s.
So, it's worth remembering that until the relatively recent past Gaelic was spoken from County Antrim to Argyll & Bute, and there are only 12 miles between them at the nearest points. We don't really know, as they no longer exist and we don't have recordings, but I suspect the mainland Gaelics on either side of Sruth na Maoile would have blended relatively seamlessly into each other.
Last thing - like you I cringed when I heard the Irish speaker call Scots a dialect of English - it's like calling Spanish a dialect of Italian! But, like your video, I also really appreciate his video, and the information he took the time and effort to provide, all very interesting.
Thanks for all the info! I appreciate the extended response. Since I'd heard multiple pronunciations of Gaeilge, I figured it was due to the various dialects.
Do you think that Gàidhlig is (in some ways) more conservative in sound and spelling compared to modern/standardized Gaeilge?
Hi carl since your trying to learn to learn the languages of the isles another language i recommend u should learn irish its similar to Scottish gaelic and u try come to ireland and visit the gaeltacht and if u dont what that is a gaelteacht is a place where people speak only irish Gaeilge fhada beo 🇮🇪❤️
Yes, that's why I made this video! It's super cool to see the similarities. I'm curious to see how much Irish I can understand someday when I visit.
I'm guessing that ui in Irish has undergone similar sound change to u in Welsh, becoming more fronted. North Welsh still pronounce it more rounded, like a Greek y. I already picked him up on the dialect / language point, that's partly how I got here. As I understand it the ga in gaeilge is broad, which affects the glide into e, Ulster pronunciation is much less w-coloured.
Interesting! Glad to learn more about Ulster's similarity to Gàidhlig compared to other Irish dialects.
Is glè beag an Gaìdlig agam. Several years ago I was traveling in Cardiff and went to a pub called Ty Mawr. I asked my local friends if that meant “great house” in Welsh, to which their eyes boggled. 😆
I definitely want to do a comparison video of Welsh and Gaelic! Would you be interested in that?
In practice, intelligibility isn't given much weight in the language vs dialect debate. If you go to Kerry and talk to some farmers you'll see why even other Irish people can struggle to understand them. Indeed ireland is covered in many very different dialects that are barely intelligible to most of the English speaking world, sometimes to each other, and yet they all fall under the umbrella of the "Hiberno-Irish dialect". The decision to designate something a language is largely political.
Good points!
There are multiple ways of pronouncing “Gaeilge” in Irish
How do you say it?
@@CarlsLingoKingdom Like "Gwaylga", my limited Irish is of the Munster dialect.
@@CarlsLingoKingdom Gaelg. Gwailguh.
An important thing to remember about Scottish and Irish Gaelic is that there is no standard spoken form of either language, but a variety of regional dialects. I've seen videos where a speaker of Scottish Gaelic and and a speaker of Irish Gaelic are having a conversation and apparently understanding each other without too much trouble because they are speaking very similar dialects. However, I have the impression that there are other dialects of each language that are very different, and speakers of those dialects might have more trouble understanding each other.
This is the video I was referring to in my previous comment with speakers of Irish and Scottish Gaelic in conversation. ruclips.net/video/8xdn-lqZONs/видео.html
Taped leibh, Neil! Did you spot yourself in the video? ;)
@@CarlsLingoKingdom Halò Carl! The second time through the video, I did spot myself! Mòran taing for including me. Would you be interested in another meet-up now that the weather's a little more congenial? Please let me know.
@@NiallMor Sgoinneil!
Fada means long in gaeilge.
It's the same in Gàidhlig! :)
Both 'gwaylga' and 'gaylga' are incorrect pronounciations of Gaeilge. There is a sound known as a 'glide' which comes from the slide from the broad g (which should be pronounced further back in the mouth than the English g) to the slender l, finishing with -e which is a 'schwa' sound and not an 'AH' vowel as it is commonly mispronounced by learners.
I noticed you got no accurate answers in the comments to your question so there you go.
Patchy, An Loingseach and Dazpatreg are the only youtubers who will teach you about native (non-anglophone/learner) Irish pronounciation. The book and website 'Fuaimeanna' is also quite good. Compared to other languages Irish is extremely lacking when it comes to the teaching of the phonetics of the language, maybe because ideologically there is a pretense that because someone is Irish they must automatically be able to have decent Irish pronounciation or maybe because there is a pretense that the schools/teachers (in general) are in any way competent at teaching that aspect of the language, or maybe simply because the majority of people teaching do not themselves have any mastery of the native phonology of the language, having themselves been taught by people with no knowledge of the phonetics.
Thanks for the info! I think I've also noticed some Irish speakers online who seem to speak with English oral posture. Makes me wonder how widespread the issue is.
The proper way to say Irish in Irish is Orish.