Part One: Why Kidnapping Conspiracy Theories Are Everywhere | BEHIND THE BASTARDS
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Part One: Why Kidnapping Conspiracy Theories Are Everywhere | BEHIND THE BASTARDS
Robert and Sarah Marshall sit down to talk about the wave of kidnapping conspiracy theories that recently led a random woman to murder an Uber driver in El Paso. (2 Part Series)
Original Air Date: July 18, 2023
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50:00 the panic in Robert's voice when he denies being into sounding 😂
he's 100% into sounding...
It could go either way. To those not into sounding, the concept illicits quite the panic
Genetics and molecular biology is where my happiness lies, and when Robert brought up how Geneticists use chain letters, I immediately went "OH MY GOD THAT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE! SMALL CHANGES OVER TIME ALTER THE LARGER 'BEING'!"
I somehow feel seen, now, even though that has nothing to do with me and Geneticists don't need any help being "seen". But that moment made me so very happy.
Iirc the "meme" as a term analog to genes was coined by Richard Dawkins, who did have an honest career once.
😅😊❤😊😊😊😊😅😅😅😅😊 5:28
This has been a thing for years; I remember about five years ago having to convince my partner at the time that there weren't kidnapping rings operating out of Wal-Mart parking lots just itching to grab and traffick women. And since then I've had to do the same with at least two co-workers that I remember.
And it's especially messed up because it preys on the idea that the world is this hyper-dangerous crime-riddled hellscape that conservatives (and many liberals) have successfully persuaded just about everyone on while also making human trafficking out to be this Taken-esque scenario instead of the depressing reality of actual human trafficking, so much so that people expect trafficking to be some guy kidnapping them instead of the reality that is... you're most likely to be trafficked by someone you know when you are in a precarious and vulnerable situation.
Yep- Victorian/Edwardian England had a moral panic about "The White Slave Trade" and feared a whole range of foereigners were kidnapping middle class young women for sex trade overseas. They should have worried more about what was driving so many working class girls and women into prostitution far closer to home. Spoiler alert: it wasn't those pesky foreigners.
Like religious conservative families eschewing vaccination, this chain letter concept attempts a kind of protection for a group that is or feels unheard. Also like that, this makes me sad for our neighbors
That's really sad, idk about other places but in my area I almost always have homeless women coming to ask me for assistance in Wal-Mart parking lots. I'm sure people believing that there are kidnapping rings operating out of Wal-Mart parking lots puts them in a lot more danger than just being homeless women already does.
The problem is these things absolutely do exist...but only for indigenous women. A truly staggering number of American Indian and First Nations women go missing every year, and some of them are almost certainly being trafficked. Often by the police, if the stories I've heard from indigenous friends are true.
@@Frommerman they do happen, it's by far the minority of cases. Also it's not _only_ indigenous & first nations women. Trans women, especially trans POC women are often targets and so are immigrants, especially undocumented immigrants are very much at risk. It does happen to blonde white girls/women too, at least in the US we are just very privileged in the fact that police & media are more likely to take those close to us seriously when it does happen, so perpetrators aren't likely to choose someone where their absence will be in the spotlight. Missing white girl syndrome is a very real thing & criminals aren't stupid. _(TBC there are absolutely exceptions everywhere when it comes to things like this, but being so narrow isn't justified)_
What term you are looking for is urban legend. These were the pre and early internet conspiracy theories. That almost always centered around some stranger doing you harm . The internet took these to the next level
Here in Britain, child kidnapping is usually the result of parental conflict over custody of the child. Some years ago, I was woken by a police raid on the flat below mine. I got dressed and went to see what was going on. There were police vans everywhere. I thought it was a drugs bust,and a man was brought out in handcuffs. It turned out the guy's ex-wife had claimed he had taken their child.
That's the case in the US as well. Lots of child kidnapping is a result of custody battles.
That's true in most western countries
In the gas station email story I was totally expecting the gas station attendant to be the kidnapper. There’s no way the attendant over at the convenience store counter notices an intruder in my car and I don’t while standing right next to it.
My ex used to worry a lot about me getting kidnapped by a random stranger. Guess now I know why.
The reference to El Paso jail being different was implying that other inmates are going to harm that murder suspect.
"Oi guvner. That which exists widout me knoiledge exists widout me con-sent."
-Coremac McCahthy
My mother in law gets visibly uncomfortable when I inform her that places like LA and NYC aren't hyper dangerous and are among the safest cities in America. I blame her watching local news which focus on crime so much that makes her scared. Good thing is shes usually pretty open minded
I lived in a rougher area of Albuquerque and my car was regularly broken into, but it wasn't bad if you walked or biked usually. As long as your not a dick to random people or waltz into a gang fight. I ended up selling my car bc the constant repair fees were murdering my wallet and if I didn't get the locks/window fixed it would get stolen within a month and get even more damaged plus the tow fee plus I'd be out of a car until it got found. I used the money to get a decent bike and never looked back lol. But all this to say- being scared of poor people is stupid. People are people, if you're nice people will generally reciprocate. True crime really does just eat people's brains sometimes
There is a Louie Theroux episode where a women who has met him professionally is giving him a lift and she rings her mum in front of him and tells her his name and where they are going so he can't murder her without getting caught. Then just like Ok let's go!
honestly Albuquerque is like the perfect place to not own a car because it only rains once or twice a year
I'm an older old than you guys and I grew up in SoCal. In my neighborhood it was an open secret which families had undocumented relatives living with them. And? No. One. Cared. I miss those days.
I remember chain letters, too. I kind of thought they were a sort of urban legend until a friend of mine got one because I never did. It was the "Send copies of this letter to 10 people and (random good thing) will happen to you. If you don't, then (random terrible thing) will happen to you!" kind. My friend, of course, did as the letter said. We were probably 10 or 11; the age when you never got letters from anyone besides your grandma unless it was your birthday. When I told my mom, she said chain letters were illegal* which leads me to believe that perhaps I never saw a chain letter growing up was because of my mom stealing my mail. She totally would have committed a mail crime to prevent a different mail crime.
Nowadays, I guess we just forward stuff on social media?
*just looked it up and chain letters are considered mail fraud and are, indeed, illegal.
I did know one guy who I thought had a legit reason to be shaving his head and counseling his co-workers to do the same. But he was an EMT, and is now a paramedic: he did have patients suddenly turn combative, or suddenly wake up to some guy sticking a needle in them, or the like. He wasn't "getting in fights" real often, exactly, but he did have people maybe trying to grab his head pretty often. Most of those could be de-escalated without too much trouble, but giving Disoriented Combative Patient #13 a convenient handle to grab, in the back of a moving ambo, could indeed be a bad idea!
The car thief story reminded me of this major who tried to tell us to be careful on the way home because antifa was targeting white people going to shops. He lied about a lot of things.
Weird note: I guarantee the chain-lettter factory employees were mostly women. Why? Because typing was considered "woman's work" back then. Men generally didn't do much of it, or even know how. A lot of early computer work was done by women for this reason, as well.
Driving schools telling you to check under the car was originally to look for animals or children, and leaking fluids rather then murderers. Either someone figured that people needed more motivation then possibly running over the neighbors kid or it morphed over time as these kinds of stories circulated.
28:00 as you were talking about women being told to have kidnapping-avoiding hairstyles, I immediately remembered being constantly told that men should not have long hair because your hair can be grabbed in a fight and lo and behold Evans brought that up too. My retort to that was "hey, how about you cut your balls off to avoid the vulnerability of getting kneeled in the groin?", to which I always got confused and angry responses.
I'm trans now, so I might have been right all along.
As an El Pasoan living away from my city, worst way to learn about this.
If they were on the highway, it wouldn't surprise me that the uber driver wouldn't stop and let her out - it's likely 100% against their terms of service to stop on the highway and let someone out where there's no shoulder and it's unsafe. So even if she asked, the driver likely wouldn't have let her out until the vehicle got to a safer location. If she was screaming and acting crazy he might also reasonably have engaged the child locks to keep from getting into trouble for having her jump out and get hurt or die. There's no proof but her claims that she ever asked to be let out, and escalating to murder without even attempting to call the police is nuts. But it would absolutely make sense that even if she asked to stop the driver might not have been in a position to safely stop.
It is because it happened once. A driver booted a drunk jerk out on a highway shoulder and the jerk stumbled into traffic and got ran over. If you have to let someone out you're supposed to pull into a safe spot like a strip mall or gas station which like any adult knows isn't always immediately there.
Fun fact about the application of phylogenetic techniques to chain letters, people have also used them to track down the origin of a plagiarized text, if people have been plagiarizing them long enough.
Thanks for the episode. I hope we get to see something on Tim Ballard and Operation Underground Railroad soon.
I can't belive I didn't notice they had a RUclips channel for months.
Hello fellow youtube frogs. Looking forward to chatting with yall
New car theif tactic. I notice your parking meter is empty and feed in a quarter so you won't get a ticket. This tricks you into staying longer so I can grab lunch before I rob you
(Yes this is sarcasm)
Rogan? His name is Joe Guarelli!
I want to start the theory that he has remained in character for 25 years.
I love how two Canadians were suggested as alternative hosts for a podcast that could change American society.
OH MY GOD. I had forgotten that Joe Rogan was on NewsRadio. Dude...how are Andy Dick and Joe Rogan that success stories from that compared to Dave Foley? Also, RIP Phil Hartman (who will always be Troy McClure and Zap Brannagan to this millenial).
Phil was dead by the time Futurama started, Zapp Brannagan was voiced by Billy West who does Fry. Apologies for the correction, I didn't make Brannagan's law, I just enforce it.
@@kilgoreplumbus1360 I always forget when he died compared to Futurama. I always assumed he was that first episode with Brannagan, and that West took over after because of the tragedy.
i can totally see why you'd make that mistake though one of my most ingrained memories was watching the pilot for Futurama waaaay back in 1999 and i knew hartmen was dead by that point
I don't think Andy Dick is much of a success these days lol.
@@notreallyhere67nope, living in a flophouse making RUclips videos where he does stupid stunts and gets beat up
Reminds me of the Simpsons, send $1 to happy dude! Eternal happiness is just a dollar away!
Man, I remember email chain letters. Even my teenage gullible brain was telling that the whole thing was dumb.
Oh man, Ted the Caver! I am pretty sure I remember discovering that while it was still being updated, and it was great.
I'm a bit upset there was a whole discussion about who the guy was from Cape Fear and nobody mentioned Sideshow Bob.
And the fact that the Simpsons made fun of what would actually happen to a person that tied themselves under a car
Used to help train people in self defense, mostly women, and yeah my instructor would also tell them the shit Evans said like the long hair, we told people to carry kubotans or how to fight with keys, not to bend down infront if your car shit like that. I still think being able to defend oneself is a good skill to have and makes people more confident but there is allways this paranoia culture, for years I would walk around with my fist around my keys at night.
If you all remember: where is that article quoting that Book of the Dead passage from? Or where is that translation of the Book of the Dead from? I've tried looking for it and skimming a couple translations, and couldn't find it?
30:44 I actually think it could be the opposite of boredom. My personal experience with anxiety is (although if you have an anxiety disorder, then free-floating anxiety can and will just latch onto any chain of thought in your brain) that latent or less-rational anxieties you have, get stronger when you're already anxious about real, rational things.
For example, I've had T1D for about 23 years, and I developed diabetic retinopathy a couple years ago. This year, due to some effects of the retinopathy and its treatment, I had two retinal detachments in the same eye, and had to have two different vitrectomy procedures (a type of eye surgery) in the space of about 3 months. The second one in particular was really unexpected and jarring because I thought the problem had already been fixed.
(I was/am also going through my last semester of grad school, which is also stressful.)
Anyway, one thing that happened a lot during this time was that a lot of my more irrational and existential fears, especially about death and loss, got a lot more intense/debilitating and took up a lot more space in my head during that period.
So I think being anxious about a greater amount of reasonable things, may prime your brain to get more anxious about unreasonable things (stuff that won't realistically happen to you, or it will eventually happen but you can't do anything to stop it and it's not going to happen for a long time (like death), so it's not rational to think/worry too much about it), or may make those irrational worries stronger.
And as Robert and Sophie and their guest point out, USian capitalist mass culture focuses a lot on making people scared/anxious. Both to ensure they consume commodities and keep working, and to politically manipulate the public re: issues like immigration and the border, or foreign policy (or antifa, or LGBTQ+ people).
(BTW, none of this excuses shooting someone over that given irrational fear, or even shooting someone over a rational fear. Plenty of us get anxious, and still manage not to commit murder. Rather, my point is that the more anxious or scared people already are, the more irrationally scared they may get, and the higher the odds get of a few people doing horrible things to innocent strangers, because they're fucked up and also prompted by that irrational fear. Individuals are still responsible for violence they do, but on a wider level it's not great to have your population be this scared and materially insecure all the time (especially when so many people also have guns).)
Americans are very tense, anxious, paranoid people (I'm an American, but I've been to enough other places that I feel pretty confident in saying it's an "us" problem).
Part of that is probably because we don't get things like adequate vacation time/breaks from work; or leisure time for things like sleeping enough per night or cooking fresh meals; or workers' rights and job security via strong unions and labor regulations, etc. (Also, our food system, air, and water are garbage.)
But a lot of it is also related to propaganda (about cops and criminals, terrorists, etc) in our entertainment media and the way our news and history are presented.
We get taught to be afraid, and then we get taught that the appropriate response to fear is to "ensure" your safety by preparing for every outcome (often by buying extra commodities to hoard, or working more to hoard more money), or by giving away your rights or privacy so companies or the State can "protect" you.
Rather than just like... Learning that just because you feel anxious or afraid of something, doesn't mean it's a real danger that needs action.
(And that the community and people around you are actually trustworthy, and you can mutually aid and protect each other, and rely on each other for safety.)
The word you're looking for is "urban legend"
I could have gone my whole life without knowing about : sounding ..ffsakes.lols
Hearing about chain letter curses reminds me of a what we do in the shadows joke about spam emails.
I'm an American living in Tijuana, Mexico. I feel safer here than I do in parts of San Diego, in part because I know what areas to avoid (e.g., typical tourist zones).
Am I crazy here, or is that news report calling the kidnapping "targeted" as if it meant the opposite thing? Maybe it's just the context of appearing on this podcast episode, but it really sounds like they're saying "it was targeted!" implies "you should be afraid" and not "you're fine if you don't personally piss off a cartel"
Lived in Hillsboro for 36 years since childhood. The only reason that's kept me from moving, is the no sales tax.
I didn't know that this podcast was put up on youtube. Now I get to constantly suggest "Cover Frank Colins/Joseph" and be ignored
So I actually *don’t* know what was being referred to with Liam Neeson, so attempted to Google it via nebulous prompts…
Google shot back enough disconcerting tales about him that I honestly have no idea what was being referred to, because it could be a LOT of things. Did not know that guy had so many problematic moments documented in his past.
*Begins chanting*
Fax lore
Fax lore
Fax lore
Anyone know what happened with Phoebe Copas? Last update i can find is that her trial date was set for February of this year but nothing about a trial or anything else since September,23 .
Lmao I was just listening to Blood Meridian on RUclips
I love News Radio, despite Andy Dick and Joe Rogan.
"This is about to go off the rails" as if the episode had been on the rails up to that point.
Release Boston Blood Meridian, you coward
"Good luck, babysitter!"
Yeah, the two Steves had separate evil trucks. King had the 18 wheeler Toys R Us truck (but it was just one of many evil trucks and cars), Spielberg had the anonymous hobo 18-wheeler.
I looked up phoebe copas on Facebook and found her dads Facebook. There’s a picture of his grandson holding a happy 15th bday cake and behind the tv is on playing Fox News. Also, she may not be a Karen but she does appear to be cosplaying one. All her wigs are blonde and she’s wearing blue color contacts.
I’m so freaking nosy lol
Ok also her dad is really weird.he’s bragging about his run time since the same breath he’s requesting prayer for his daughter
@@gracelloyd3758 that _is_ kinda weird
do not, i repeat: *DO NOT* look up sounding
3:40 so if anyone can tell me how on earth you go about juicing a watermelon, id greatly appreciate it. A coworker & i were actually discussing how you can't juice a watermelon like three days ago.
Cut it up and put it in a blender?
@@jayspeidell 🤔 crazy enough that might just work, if you strain it. Thanks!
@@PMickeyDee It's kinda better not strained, straining removes the nutrients and fiber. Watermelon juice is actually pretty good with the pulp.
@@jayspeidell sounds intriguing. in the context my coworker & I were talking about it straining it would definitely make more sense lOl. It was in regards to someone who definitely shouldn't have had any pulp
This is an old question, but you cut it into chunks and put it in a juice press. You can get a smaller tabletop juice press.
ugh. I remember a chain email my dad sent me that was like "gangs are leaving empty strollers in empty lots to target women for gang r*pes" like 🤌
I'm autistic, I'm very trusting. If I get kidnapped or w/e because I showed kindness to the "wrong person" I don't care. I'm still going to trust people and be kind because I think that makes the world a little better
makes me how many times a variant of that urban legend story has made the rounds.
How would an empty stroller facilitate that?
Wait taken isn't real?
I understand the reaction of people outside Oregon when you tell them you not only live here, you “came from” Oregon.
😂
Wait, I'm a fucking 3 percenter? I am not even sure why but News Radio is one of about 10 to 15 sitcoms I have watched more or less all the episodes of during the last 40 years or so.
HIGHLY relatable 'sounding' reaction voice.
This is my new favorite show. I was listening to it all day upon discovery yesterday, even at work; the Manosphere one. I got to deprogram a China Covid conspiracy from a co-worker, "Yeah, the Klu Klux Klan started as Democrats, but who's voting for them now?" Co-worker was cool though, listened to reason, and talking politics made the night go fast.
I'm falling in love with the humanity of watching the world burn with the people who drift through.
Call it my dated hypermasculine sensibilities, but any New Englander who could probably define dialectical materialism, and owns a grenade launcher is wicked pissah, ked. That "Beer Hall Putch" episode was aces. The Dilbert episode was my first.
Thank you so much for these cathartic moments.
Wait, Oregon? This is my "Bill O'Reilly grills Stephen Colbert" moment; are you from Oregon or New England?! RAWR!!
They should make a chain letter slasher flick; it could either be some 90s period piece complete with Scream/I Know What You Did Last Summer/Goonies (yeah, there should be a pirate ship) homage shots, or present day for those shits and giggles, like a divorced Zoomer gets a chain letter, he's bored, solves the occult puzzles in the letter. Will he be driven homicidally insane with obsession like some Lovecraft shit, or should he be the one to discover the origin of The Chain Letter Ripper.
I know it's schlocky, but that's what makes it endearing. Hell, I was thinking that I shouldn't add slasher meta commentary like Scream, but Seth Green could be this divorced Zoomer's dad, and be a nostalgia bait exposition vehicle. Then we could do some Ed Woods shit, and wire the theater seats to electrocute the audience whenever there's an ominous breaking of the fourth wall. Why don't they give millions of dollars to people like me? I can come up with a box office safe film that could cement a cult following.
Totally donating if that takes off. Thanks for the inspiration!
Yes, I am in line for a therapist.
lol I'm genuinely surprised that there hasn't been a chain-letter slasher movie yet, that idea has serious potential!
hell, i’d watch it. i’m a sucker for 80s & 90s period pieces in the vein of “stranger things” & the fear street movies.
I'm always warning people of haunted evil trucks piloted by a Steven/Stephen.
I rented a copy of Forgetting Sarah Marshall from Redbix, then left it on a shelf in Krogers. By the time I got back to the shelf it was gone, and whoever found it never returned it,snd I got charged $35 for a movie I never even got to watch. Fuck that movie. (At least until I see it, if it's good.)
its ok the best thing about it is Jason sigel's Dracula musical
There's a fantastic play from the mid-eighties with a sub plot about the first chain letter, written by the first female jester or "joculatrix" recorded in William the Conquerors Domesday Book.
"This sheepskin comes to you from Whiffle-on-Trent . . ."
The main plot has to do with ghostwriters working on novels intended to spread conspiracy theories as racist propaganda. "Reality slash fiction."
With the title "In Perpetuity Throughout The Universe" it's managed to be spookily prescient and more relevant over time.
wait, there's a play from the mid 80s whose main plot describes Tom Clancy's career after 1990? Damn, that's some prediction skill.
I prefer to call Rogan the Poor Man’s Matt LeBlanc based on the same role.
Um, what if I don't know about Liam Neeson?
Then don't look into it. It will probably ruin him for you
I remember the good old days when chain emails just wanted to convince you to forward to all your friends and Bill Gates would give you $100.
Used to be able to break into cars with a tennis ball
I grew up in Oakland county Michigan in the 70s and we had a serial killer that was targeting children. Everybody was really scared and supposedly this changed how our parents raised us, but the only difference I noticed was getting grounded for not phoning home after 8 hours of wandering around at 15.
I can't stomach horror, but I also think constant paranoia over kidnapping and the like is just a huge pain. I'm anxious enough as is over shit in my life, I don't need to add abstract fear of crime.
I wish there were sources provided for the figures on trafficking. This would be a lot more useful to share to people in my life if it wasn't just as much unfounded claims as the "myths" being criticised.
1:15:47 it's not so much "wow I'm in charge I'm scared of made up bs" it's "I'm doing awful things to these people and if they ever get the chance to turn the tables it would be really bad" basically "I know what I'm doing is awful but I'm going to keep doing it because if it ever turns around they're going to kill me" and frankly they would deserve it and all the things they do to prevent the oppressed from becoming equal makes things even worse, but usually it doesn't turn out as bad as they expect, unless they really push hard against the people they're oppressing and it turns into Haiti or the French revolution
Content starts at 6:00
Ok what's the AI thing they're talking about at 1:13:02
I actually did find a piece of cheese on the hood of my car after getting off work one night OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT
(I assume it was there because of a TikTok challenge or something.)
John Carpenter is the ideal man.
Minorities are not a monolith.
Good bored noises here from guest
Yeah she sounds like a woman on a bad first date.
I would MUCH prefer to listen to the host do a video completely by himself. The guests add zero and in fact are only distracting. This would be perfect content if it was just Evans reading to the listener.
Nations built by immigrants and called a melting pot is xenophobic?
Gotta love it. 😂
One of Trump's first moves was literally aimed at curbing LEGAL immigration based on country of origin designed specifically to target one group.
Muslims.
There was xenophobia aimed at the Irish, the Italians Eastern European Jews and the Chinese when they immigrated in large numbers.
It's a terrible fact of our history more need to be reminded of because there are plenty who still are just afraid of anything out of their TV show reality of what is "Normal" for America.
God I can’t stand podcast because of all the rambling, but tiktok recommended this one. For anyone else annoyed about it, they start getting into the story at 5:50
bro we do not need you to save us from 6 minutes
The "rambling" is part of the format, if you just want the facts your looking for documentaries /news clips.