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I didn't like Pickleball. The reasons? Listed below All I see in Pickelball is Doubles, Doubles, Doubles, Doubles no Singles because where I used to play the game it was always doubles and games no singles games so I never learnt any singles, So I lost interest because there was too much doubles As playing doubles don't give me time to feel my way around the court as doubles is more faster and more cramped than singles, I found doubles to be too fast paced. Tennis I have more time , pickleball I don't have always enough time Swings Felt also awkward. Always feeling rushed jammed.. Didn't like the faster timing Disliked the kitchen dinking knee bending thing. In Tennis I use just pronation of the racquet to clear the netcord but in Pickelball its all these little soft dinks... Because the ball is plastic and full of holes. The ball dies more faster than a tennis ball does.. Pickleball had way more knee bending than tennis because the ball is much more lower down to the ground in Pickelball. The court is much more smaller there's not alot of space to move the body around with the ball. Pickelball Footwork is a little different to tennis Pickelball puts more pressure on the 1st serve than tennis because you only get just only 1 serve in Pickelball. Didn't really like the pickelball paddles. Grips are much more shorter on the paddles than on the tennis racquets. Didn't feel very comfortable. I have a slice drive that hits big flat penetrating pronations at 80-100 mph because I use a low to high swing motion to drive the ball using pronation off the racquets edge. Well ripping backhand slice drives at 80-100 mph off the edge of the pickelball paddle worked but it lasted only just an hour and then after that I heard a loud crack and the pickelball bat snapped all off the handle flying several courts away.. And that happened when i started first playing the game...and trying the tennis drives with it. Oh.... In tennis driving the ball all flat using pronation allowed me to maintain depth and clerance at lower heights over the netcord than the normal way where people usually float the ball with brushing under the ball with the strings and have to aim more higher over the net in order to maintain depth which can result in slices falling short and weak in the court if you don't get enough height.. So in tennis the net clearance was 1-2 feet or a few inches over it when using the big flat pronation slice drive but would be 3-6 or more feet higher if using the normal floating slice drive.. But in Pickelball the net clerance is much more lower, only just 1 foot or an inch over it with the big flat slice drive and abt 2 feet for the normal drive l A little bit too low,. Didn't really think much of Pickelball after breaking the bat. So for these reasons is why I didn't like doubles because with more people on the court, and less space to move around in with the ball I felt cramped in my swings and found the tempo in doubles was a little bit too fast.
Tennis player here. I played pickleball for the first time a few weeks ago and it was fun. Kind of like playing ping pong on a huge table. It was super easy to play and I hardly broke a sweat, especially if playing doubles. So I can see why so many people love it -- easy learning curve and you don't need to be in shape to play it. But I still love tennis and won't switch until I'm old and can't play tennis anymore.
I went from badminton to pickleball. Now I play pickleball for an hour and a half +, 4x or more a week @ 3.5-4.0 rating. In singles, playing 2hrs, I easily burn 1,300 + calories. Doubles is almost 800+ in two hours. Mind you, that’s with 3-5 minute breaks in between each set. I’m athletic, and because of pickleball addiction I have to eat a little more protein because I’m losing nearly 1/2 a lb a week. All of my friends play now. I’m in several group chats, different acquaintances of all age range sending messages four times and dates that everyone’s playing. This did not happen when I played badminton or any other sport in my life. I’ve watched friends who were over weight cut down 30lbs over the summer even with a bad diet. My state has been covered in recreational parks, tennis courts, basketball courts playgrounds baseball fields; you name it. And they have been empty for 15 years. The tennis courts have had little to no maintenance. But because of Pickleball, all of the parks have been redone. there’s almost nowhere to park vehicles on Sundays because it’s crowded with people playing Pickleball. I’m just happy that people are getting out of the house. Moving their bodies, and breathing in fresh air.
@@naturesbest7977on what level were you playing badminton? If you compete on a high level, I’m pretty sure badminton can burn the same amount of calories as the numbers you mentioned with pickleball
The people that are playing pickleball aren’t going to play tennis if pickleball doesn’t exist. They were not playing any sport so we should celebrate more people getting active and outside in a fun healthy community. Tennis is one of the most difficult skilled sports to learn along with golf. Pickleball is easier and faster to pick up and enjoy for those who aren’t going to play competitively but just recreationally.
I played tennis when pickelball wasn't an option. I would be playing tennis now if it wasn't for pickleball being an option now. I'm playing pickleball instead because it makes me and my friends laugh. Tennis simply isn't as fun for us. But I agree that it's great that both sports are an option.
Yeah, if it weren’t for tennis courts being converted to pickleball, this would be a total non-issue. Plenty of real estate for both sports. I agree with your take completely and wish people didn’t think so tribally
Yeah I don't think they're competitors at all. If anything someone might play pickleball because it's easy and accessible and then decide they need to scratch the itch more seriously and take up tennis. And pickle is no threat to tennis as a spectator sport. It's borderline unwatchable, and I will watch just about any sport
@@sethlichtenstein4442this is exactly what happened to me, have played pickleball with the family casually for years and finally decided I wanted a challenge and a more intense workout and have now picked up tennis as a 30 YO after never having played before.
@@MATHEW94061 Tennis is just as boring if not maybe even more boring to watch LIVE. I admit though, tennis HIGHLIGHTS are more fun to watch vs highlights in PICKLEBALL. That's why pickleball will strive, fun for its easy learning curve. Tennis will survive just because of its history and prestige.
Part of the decline of tennis is cost of entry. Here in the UK, where it rains 98% of the year, indoor courts run you up to £25 an hour to play on. Where is the sense a tennis court earning more per hour than 70% of all UK workers? I love tennis, but pricing has just become a joke.
lol I only heard of pickleball recently when I was out playing tennis and they had a smaller court drawn into the tennis court. Everyone was playing pickleball so my buddy and I tried it out. Basically gave up tennis immediately for it. The fact that it's easier to play really did make it more fun. And the super friendly nature of it with the community is cool.
As much as i dislike pickleball, pickleball is NOT the problem. Tennis association needs to change. millions of tennis players and viewers have been suffering… goat novak trying to help save the sport, sadly we know the short sightedness of the corporates are obvious.
@@helloeveryone0123 tennis is suuuuuuper elitist the people on the USTA site are all white and it looks like you have to pay thousands and join a country club to join. There are tons of people from foreign countries who love tennis but USTa makes it look like only white people are taken seriously
It's so frustrating trying to watch Grand Slams in the USA. There's too many pay walls and it doesn't include access to all the matches being played in grand slams. Ive given up watching the matches live, and just wait for highlights on YT.
IMO, the grand slams are the easiest to watch. They’re usually on a major network like ESPN (AO, Wimbledon, USO) or NBC (RG) I will agree with you that there are more paywalls like ESPN+/Peacock, but that allows you to watch every single match at the tournaments if you wanted to. But you could just watch the main ESPN channel in a standard TV package, but you don’t get to choose which match is being shown. It’s harder to watch the minor ATP tournaments because you need to have access to Tennis TV or Tennis Channel.
@@evanwride6638How many different subscriptions online would I have to get if I wanted to watch the main big one: All 4 GSs, ATP Finals, and ATP1000s? I don't have cable TV. Do they have one subscription to watch all those or would I need to buy more?
@@sauce1232 Wish that had been my experience. RUclips TV allowed me to watch some of some matches on ESPN, with constant switching between matches going on at the same time, but my dream is to pay a flat fee for access to full, live and recorded matches, and that's it. Kinda like the NFL Packages. Heck, I'd pay for a Grand Slam Package! If only someone would offer it.
I think the main aspect that attracts people to Pickleball is the accessibility. Tennis has always had issues with its “rich kid” facade, and Pickleball is much more accessible to play than Tennis.
Novak was right with his assessment about tennis being less accessible because of the factors he mentioned. Hence, the so-called "rich kid" facade because of those factors.
Interesting take. I grew up dirt poor but bought a racket at a garage sale that I used as a kid till sophomore in high school. I never viewed it as a rich kid sport.
Yeah, fully agree. Pickleball is easier to pick up and play. Tennis is a very difficult sport to play consistently and it generally costs a lot of money for lessons to get better
Our seniors community in Arizona has eight tennis courts and eleven pickleball courts. Forty members in the tennis club, three hundred and fifty pickleball members. Forty-four players are usually on the pickleball courts with at least a dozen waiting; never more than eight on the tennis courts and they often sit empty. The diehard tennis players still refuse to have any of their courts made dual purpose. It’s turning into a war.
@@urioriari34Uhh, the middle aged, the elderly with often poor form, slow, and out of shape are more of the Pickleball crowd. You go Tennis players! Stand your ground! Robert at 69 who is a current competive Table Tennis player, and ex Tennis player in the Phoenix area.
GOOD, GOOD GOOD!! You Tennis players keep up the good fight to retain those Tennis courts! I'm an ex Tennis player at 69, and now play club level Table Tennis where I am competitive with players half my age in a shortened court area. I will not give in to the overly trendy/goofy Pickleball. The name, plastic ball 'plink' and court rules alone makes me cringe, and I'm right here in your ballpark in Apache Junction Az.
It’s a lot like the arrival boom of snowboarding trend - it was easier and lower barrier to entry in how quick you could learn and the cost of equipment (at least it used to be that way) but years on it bored people and had various negatives. And snowboarders go (back to in some cases or new to) skiing. Snowboarding still exists but its popularity has waned and it’s just not sustaining.
I started playing tennis because i played 1 match of pickleball in nyc during my vacation there. It was fun and my opponent told me he can see i have been playing tennis back home. I never have to that point to be honest. Pickleball is much more casual and easy to learn. I played one match where my opponent explained the rules to me. After 10min we could play a really good looking match. it was fun but tennis is much more interesting to me because of the skills and techniques you have to learn to play on a casual level.
When I grew up most of the tennis courts had backboard areas for a single player to practice. I was even trained by Fred Reed that if I couldn't hit 100 strokes against the backboard, then I was not up for serious matches. Today there are very few backboards at courts around the metroplex. That forces the sometimes impossible . . . that you matched schedules with another player who wants to go out and hit tennis with you. In the old backboard scene, sure, you're often taking up a court. Others show and want to play that court. Then you negotiate, meet other players, etc. I've challenged two other players to hit two-on-one, just as long as they observed the singles lines on my side; and we had a great time playing "doubles". Having backboards at courts allows for single arriving players to evaluate the skill and choose to ask that player for a match. Backboards were a major social event. A lot of tennis happened because there wree backboards. And now they're gone.
When I was 16 I got into tennis and would drive out to some courts that had a concrete wall at the back of some and would spend hours and hours learning to play tennis. It’s how I met 2 of my long term tennis partners in my 20s. I agree it’s sad so many tennis courts don’t have some courts with walls
@@corvus2512 It's worse than that IME. The crime and vandalism that has escalated across the city has caused the tennis coaches at the schools to lock the gates. They then tell you to drive an extra 10minutes to the nearest controlled facilities, and possibly pay fees. This certainly will keep people from entering the sport. I grew up driving less than 5min to my local HS courts to learn.
I live on one of the poorest islands in Indonesia. Most of our neighbors have never even been to the local mall and going to a restaurant is an impossibility. But there are now about 30 pickleball courts on our island and several active clubs. I daily see poor barefoot villagers playing a pickup game.
@@Tr786hala I think the Europeans living there must have built the Padel courts there since that's popular in Europe. And there's one on Gili T I hear. But in Mataram and surrounding areas, it's more a local grass roots movement toward pickleball.
Reminds me of the rise of racquetball on handball courts. It was so much easier to pick up and less stressful to play, that the handball players were squeezed out of their courts. Fast forward 25 years, racquetball popularity declines and not enough handball players are left to take up the slack, and courts are closed / repurposed.
I just started playing pickleball a month ago, the biggest thing I like about it compared to tennis is the accessibility and the people. I played tennis, but the people even pros in pickleball are nicer, more laid back, and more welcoming. But, I think there are people for each sport and if pickleball gets people up and out and getting exercise then that’s a good thing.
even some of your favs are playing pickleball… for example, last week during the cincy open, i went to my usual pickleball courts at my local gym and i happened to run into andrey rublev’s team playing pickleball. andrey wasn’t there ofc since he’s still playing in the tournament but i got to play with/against his coach (fernando), physio (marcos), his wife, and this other guy (idk his name). they were good, obviously, and they seemed to be enjoying it a lot.
I've played a lot more pickleball than tennis, see new people coming in all the time. People with at least a year of tennis experience can usually get to a 4.0 level in pickleball very quickly, within a matter of days. It's a matter of recalibrating shots so they don't hit the net or sail out of bounds, and learning basic pickleball tactics (trying to stay back at the baseline and just rip drives will get you slaughtered by any semi-competent pickleball player). But then moving from 4.0 to 5.0+ in pickleball takes about as much time for a converted tennis player as it does for a seasoned pickleball player. There are advanced shots and tactics that just take time to perfect. Sam Querrey and Eugenie Bouchard vastly underestimated what it would take to compete at the pro level. Jack Sock did not and deservedly is now in the top 10, but still has yet to consistently win any tournaments. And while most of the top pickleball pros nevertheless have considerable tennis background (typically D1 college tennis), it is increasingly common for the upstart challengers at pro tournaments to have a background in pickleball only, with little/no tennis playing experience. The game continues to evolve.
I think one of the issues in tennis can be the vast range of skill level illustrated but the UTR rating which tracks a person's level by two decimal points from 0.00 to mid 16 ish. When you play against someone 2 or more UTR points better or worse than you, the enjoyment starts to diminish. This serves to put people into cliques by skill level. It seems pickleball allows more people to play together because the skill quotient is relatively diminished by the smaller court, plastic ball, and paddles.
Yes, it can be hard to find people of a similar level in tennis. And it can come across as clique-y 😂 But ultimately what I love about tennis is how hard it is to be any good, and how rewarding it is when you make progress. It’s addictive to me and I’m my 50s still trying to get a bit better 😊
@@sophiak4299 this is exactly why I play tennis as well. 54 here. Tried pickleball twice. Absolutely hated it both times. A big part of hitting a tennis ball is the “feel” of it. Take that away and a lot of the enjoyment goes with it for me.
Here in the Villages with over 300 courts, it serms the really competitive pickleball players play everyday as the keep improving, but once they hit the glass ceiling like in tennis, they cut way back or give up the sport. Others get hurt and drop out. Thus, the courts aren't as busy as a few years ago. The injury rate seems higher with continuous play and sudden, fast reactions.
@@karenv8351 Ditto for tennis. If a lob gets over my head, I say "good shot." I've seen lots of serious injuries going back for a lob. At the rec level, not worth it.
People just want to combine exercise with having fun and socializing... So the lower skill required to play helps this happen. Same applies to beach tennis... It is refreshing to step into the sand after a long day and have fun with your friends and new people you've just met. They are great sports for the mental health. There is space for everyone.
I don’t think it has to be a Tennis VS Pickleball problem. This is like skiing vs snowboarding. Both sports can thrive. Both “rec level” industries can flourish.
It is a competition between the two. Parks departments often convert a tennis court or two into Pickleball courts. Frequently the Pickleball courts are full mornings and evenings and there’s a line waiting to play. They look at the often empty tennis courts and want more Pickleball courts. This situation is extremely common. Most tennis players belong to private clubs and the park courts don’t get much play. You can show up by yourself to the Pickleball courts and be welcomed to play. Not usually so with tennis.
My 70+ FIL got big into pickleball. He’s gone on trips, joined regional org’s, and just loves it. I’m glad it exists as it gives him a social exercise. It’s a great sport for all ages but definitely for seniors. I’m more annoyed that communities push back against the sound. To me, it’s the sound of community and fun.
I think the prize money will waiver down though. This is funny, but fortnite had a 30 million dollar world cup in 2018, but despite maintaining size and still being popular, top tournaments pay a small fraction of that now.
In my area, when 4 tennis courts need to be resurfaced, they become two tennis courts and 4 pickleball courts. My town and all the towns around me. I guess that is going on everywhere.
Amazing video man, you contextualized the situation really well. I have only played tennis once in my life, and it was fun, but you quickly realize how difficult it can be. However, I have been watching tennis these last few years, it has become my favourite sport.
I happen to play tennis and pickleball at solid ~5.0 level and love both sports a lot! Tennis fans are always comparing pro-level matches say between Alcaraz and Sinner to a bunch of "abuelitas" playing pickleball doubles in a park for fun. Next time try playing 2-3 best of 3 singles matches in pickle (or just watch singles match say between Ben Johns and Tyson McGuffin) and compare physicality to tennis singles. In tennis you have free points from serves and returns, much longer times in between the points/games and sets. I tend to burn more calories playing pickle singles, very similar numbers too tennis for same 2-3h sessions of play in Florida's heat.
That's the reason I love Pickleball compared to Tennis, it just feels like so much more of my time playing Pickleball is actually spent ~playing~ Pickleball, whereas so much of Tennis is spent acing, getting aced, and faults.
I feel that Pickleball and Padel will be what Futsal is to Football: Many people play it for the same reasons as described in the video (accessibility, more inclusive to begginer and age difference etc) but in the end they will still watch Football on the TV. I know many people (especially over 30s) who almost never play tennis not Football anymore and now only play padel or futsal. None of them has never followed the pro circuit of these sports and still whatch tennis when they want to see a big performance
Tennis only has a pickleball problem because it has an overall viewership problem, particularly in America. They gotta get their non-crown jewel events on mainstream American networks more often, and in order to do so they need more total viewership for smaller events. Nobody who watches tennis doesn't really play it, whereas tons of people across the big 4 American sports as well as football (not the US version) watch but don't play.
Exactly, and same for other sports that we also have variations such as volleyball, rugby, basketball etc. In the end of the day the mainstream goes to the primary one.
I believe that in the future tennis can grow due to the pickleball popularity when some pickball players decide to step up to the next level migrate to tennis.
The problem is going to be participation. If young people are playing more pickleball than tennis, naturally there will be less tennis players and less tennis viewership
Agreed easy learning curve and almost equalisation of skill makes it very popular. I can play with my mum and feel like there’s a challenge and she can still play and have fun. It so much more accessible. I live near Wimbledon but I can basically never get a tennis court anyway nearby, can get a paddle court nearly anywhere.
I recently went to Vietnam(Saigon)for 2 weeks business trip.I was blown away how many courts they have, how many players there were and how competitive it was. I played everyday for hours and hours during this business trip😅. $3 for 2-3 hours of play. For anyone to say or think Pickleball is or will not grow you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
Pickleball in Vietnam is mostly a place for working girls meeting their customers😂😂😂. It is unbearably painful watching a pickleball match for me, it is so stoopidđ😂
I am pretty sporty guy and I love watching the big ATP tournaments. I have played semi pro basketball, tried football, windsurf, boxing, wrestling swimming for years. My issue with tennis is that it is quite technical so it takes quite a lot of time to get into and actually enjoy it, which is very hard as an adult without so much free time. Padel on the other hand you can just go and play and have fun without having to practice for so long.
I grew up playing tennis. I recently switched to pickleball because I'm newer to my community and I want to meet people and it's easy to stop by pickleball pick up nights. I like that it's much more of a social sport. I wish tennis had more of a pick-up/quick games mentality like pickleball so you could cycle through who you play with more frequently.
Pickleball is fine for social interaction. So is golf. Tennis is for better conditioned athletes who wish to stay aerobically fit and who seek more all around fitness with their competitive lifetime sport.
Pickeball is fantastic, tennis players or every tennis community should be happy people are choosing sporting activity, if i had any court for tennis i would play it but only court we have is basketball and football court all on one concrete field, so yeah wish a pickeball was "problem" here too
Tennis is just really difficult to learn. Anyone who has ever taught a friend to play know that it takes months if not year until they can play a match with an experienced player where both have fun
Pickleball is a nice leisure sport but it can never match athleticism,mental capacity,shot making of tennis and the aura ,history of tennis .. pickleball can never compare to the aspiration of lifting a Wimbledon trophy....Tennis will always be greater than pickleball ..but yeah the marketing of masters tournaments besides the 4 majors can be done better to engage the casual fan .
Pedigree doesn’t really matter to your casual fan/player though. I play both and love tennis more but pickleball is just an overall more fun experience since it’s much more social and approachable. Pickleball has multiple easy to access leagues and open play is its biggest strength. I live in a massive city and there’s no tennis leagues outside of the tennis clubs we have. But there’s multiple pickleball clubs and leagues. Tennis just needs to be more approachable and easy to get into
people i know playing pickleball are those who never had sports.. im happy for them as they are now active, socialising etc.. this is really appealing and fit to those who want to learn a new sport at the age of 30+
I think people underestimate the athleticism at the top level of pickleball. Hand speed and reaction time in a firefight at the top level requires ridiculous athleticism. Shot selection and type is also considerable, so while it is not tennis, it is not trying to be. Looking down on pickleball as a “lesser sport” misses the point. It is a different sport, and the tennis player crossover into pickleball should pretty much lay to rest that it is a game that a tennis player could easily dominate. Easy to learn, but difficult to master.
@@bsommer1717 It is a moving scale in pickleball. As a former tennis player hitting an overhead in pickleball, it would go for a winner. A year later the overhead is being returned. A 3.5 pickleball player rated a couple of years ago would not have a chance against a current rated 3.5 player.
I'm a new viewer and subscriber! I'm a fan of 🎾 tennis, as well as a few other sports! I participate in a few sports as well, and 🥽 swimming, 🏀 basketball and 🎾 tennis are my favorites! I enjoy your content, and I 1st watched your segment on the WTA parity, and found it very interesting, informative and accurate! I am chiming in because you failed to mention racquet 🏸 ball in this segment, and only mentioned 🏓 ping pong briefly! Maybe you can delve into these 2 sports in a future episode! Take care!
I am 65 years old and my exercise through the years was running and then biking as I got older. I picked up pickleball one year ago and find it easy to learn to play decently and easy on the body. Tennis would be harder on the body and harder to get a foursome together. Growing up, tennis seemed for richer kids (same for golf). Pickleball has all walks of life and different skill levels can have a challenge on the same court (not everyone would agree with that observation though 😅). Finally, almost every town over 10,000 people has some courts where you can show up by yourself, jump right in, and play for an hour or two and satisfy your competitive self, get exercise, and socialize with eight-or-so strangers who will remember your name when you come again.
Replying to my own post, I would have to back off on a couple claims a couple months later. 1. Pickleball can still be tough on the body. I experience soreness the next day which is usually better in two days. Maybe I should build up more tolerance. 2. People (myself included) DON’T remember your name 🤪but that is okay.
Tennis is a great sport and must remain as it always has been, I found Paddle Tennis and immediately found my new love, played and scored the same as tennis the only major differences was the court dimensions, a restraint line called the bucket line that no player can cross until the service receiver has hit their return, then there is the single underhand service. This tennis variant played with a de-pressurized tennis ball and a smaller paddle. FAST, hard and net driven a better kinetic ball strike isn't to be found in Tennis maybe Golf could rival! Pickle is huge but lacks any kinetic feel but as they say the masses are the _sses and like all paddle sports they play easier, learn faster and play longer into late ages then Tennis!
Players got tired into running into each other and that stupid kill shot hit 1 inch above the floor gives no one a chance of returning, AND hitting off 4 wall serfaces, glad to see it go.
I think that padel has a ceiling on its growth due to the high cost of building the courts while you can put a pickleball court anywhere. In the US you see padel courts in high level athletic facilities like Miami or Chicago not in Newark NJ. Pickleball can be set up anywhere you have open space and from a revenue standpoint it makes sense for a tennis club to convert courts since you can get 4 pickleball courts per tennis court. As far as watching the game, I find pickleball extremely enjoyable to watch. I grew up a huge fan of tennis watching Borg, McEnroe, Connors etc but the game is now just two players pounding away from the baseline which I don't find very interesting. No one seems to play serve and volley in today's game which is what we get in pickleball on almost every play. Maybe it's because I don't watch that much tennis anymore, but it's what I see when I watch.
I used to enjoy playing and watching tennis, but since I tried Padel in 2018, I never went back. Now, the only sport I play and watch is Padel. Tennis is often referred to as “the rich peoples sport”, so I left it for them to enjoy
With regards to the noise issue, the sound of the ball being struck is quite loud but I don't think it compares to some of the grunts you hear from the likes of Sharapova.
I agree with Andy Murray, these sports can exist side by side and may be a gateway to each other. The learning curve for pickleball is much much lower than tennis so that anybody can play. This introduction to racket sports can be a gateway to tennis to those players that are more technical and competitive. I come from a tennis background and fell in love with pickleball, but I realize that it is not as physically and technically demanding. However, I personally know 2 pickleball players who are quite good (4.5+) who never played tennis before who are now learning tennis because it is more technical and demanding.
I am old:(. I started as a kid during the late 70s when the tennis BOOM had started. All courts were full at 5pm. After 4 more courts were built, the same. Everyone playing were fair at best. Doubtful in a small town that nobody better than a 3.5 NTRP by todays standards but EVERYONE was playing. Today pickleball is same. Courts being converted into pickle courts and man at a deserted Memphis tennis center told me yesterday, that people call ALL TIME asking if there were pickleball courts. Tennis is DEAD sadly
between tennis and pickleball, i do feel a greater sense of accomplishment when i find a good groove and dominate in tennis- and in general i do feel like i get a great workout playing tennis (singles tennis). all that being said, the way tennis culture is and the deceptive difficulty to even be able to start playing, makes it difficult to grow. in tennis culture, you show up with a friend (or friends for doubles) to play a few sets which can take hours and everyone else is doing the same, meaning you need a lot of courts for everyone who wants to play... not to mention the difficulty of finding enough players who are on similar skill and athleticism levels to make it fun. pickleball doesn't have those problems. it's much easier to get into and it is possible for it to be fun even if skill and athleticism levels are different. my whole family can go out and play pickleball together after work and we can have fun, if we tried the same with tennis, it would be frustrating bc the young kids or older parents would never be able to run and match the power of someone in their prime... which makes it difficult to complete a single enjoyable point for all parties involved. also, pickleball also has more of a culture akin to pickup basketball at the park. you can show up with friends or by yourself at the local park and be able to play a few games within an hour because of how quickly people can rotate on and off the court... this seldom happens with tennis at the park. the only way tennis can match this community and quick rotation system is to maybe switch to only being able to play super-tiebreakers when people are waiting for a court... but that does change way tennis is normally played and strategized in the normal set play.
My issue with PB is it’s taking over actual tennis courts and even some outdoor roller hockey rinks over here in SoCal and it’s so frustrating bc at least in my experience, PB ppl tend to have the biggest ego and complain the most abt court time
I've played Tennis 3 or 4 times a week for the last 4 years and it's great.. but I'm 54, 5'7" and weigh about 60kg...Size and strength in Tennis means a lot... all round, and even more in the serve. Whilst in Spain last winter, for 3 months, I played Padel 3 times a week and it's such good fun and easier, more natural I would say, in terms of just hitting the ball, you don't use as much energy, which could be good or bad depending on what you want or can do, and size and strength are less important... there is no overhand serve for a start. After 4 or 5 lessons and my brain getting the picture of where a ball struck by my opponent may be bouncing...after getting the basics into me.. I was definitely better at Padel than Tennis, and that is always fun, to be good at something. Padel is easier, and easier on the body (Tennis can be brutal) and just a bit lighter/more fun in some ways. It also has varied play like Tennis (unlike Pickleball). I'm sure I'll play pickleball too at some point but it doesn't attract me tbh. Somewhat like badminton, the lack of variation and technicality in it means I might get a bit bored after an hours play each time! ...Maybe Tennis and Padel now, and Padel and Pickleball in 10 years! :)
Its true. I live in a very rainy and windy climate. At least 7 or 8 months out of the year tennis suffers. We have ZERO indoor tennis facilities in my country. Zero. Close to me there are 3 indoor padel centres. They are always fully booked. Tennis courts are empty
Why does it have to be tennis vs. pickleball? There is room for both. Enjoy what you like. In fact, tennis is going through a resurgence since the pandemic started. Tennis tournaments are getting record crowds, tennis channel ratings are up, and USTA reports more people playing tennis last few years.
How about Table Tennis? NOT ping pong (casual garage term) It is quite professional at the pro level. Watch top rated pro player videos. At my 50's and 60's it gave me a new reborn raquet sport life where I could not cover the vast expance of a Tennis court area. Competitive now with players half my age. Robert at 69.
I think the lack of a push for doubles is actually small problem for the atp. especially in America. The US is a massive market and even though in singles we didn't have very many players to attach to but in doubles we had the goats up until just a few years ago. Also it doesn't hurt that doubles is the most played version of tennis with adults.
As an investor, I'd fully support pickleball. As a tennis player, pickleball is for lame or elderly people and an insult to the talent required to excel in tennis.
Our family plays all of the above. Anything that gets people off their butts and active is welcome. Personally , I find Tennis is the funnest to play and gives you the best work out. Blessings
I get why Padel is exploding so much lately, Its speed and dynamism makes it incredibly fun to watch and play, accessible for beginners but still with a huge skill ceiling. I think it will dominate way more globally than Pickleball in the long term.
I really like playing padel (and paddle and squash too), but the cost of building the courts and then charging club members to recoup the cost is going to put it at a disadvantage to pickleball. I play pickle at a tennis club, and they built a padel court. Pickle is $5 for non members, but padel is $80 / hr for the court. So I suppose correctly, $20 vs $80 per hour, although pickleball is free to members. They haven't announced a club option for padel. I've heard that the club management is gauging popularity. Anyway, in the US, given pickleball's cost advantage for club owners and players alike, padel seems to be going to same road as squash and paddle tennis. That is great games, but only found in exclusive clubs, to be played by those who who can afford it. Pickleball for the masses.
@@DanBlake3rd I'm in Europe, pickleball doesn't really seem to exist here, but Padel is all the rage, I'm pretty much addicted to it too. It's extremely accessible and a very social sport to play. But it also costs me about 3-6 euro for a full 1.5 hour game. Crazy to me thats it's 80 in us? I don't understand how it can be that much more expensive. It's really a very cheap sport to play here.
Yeah I tried to play at some new tennis courts they built at my high school where I live. They put 60m into all the new cities schools sports stuff. They kicked me and my buddy out asking for 60$ a month to reserve a court. There’s 20 courts and I’ve never seen more than one court being played on at a time lol. We immediately left and said time to try pickleball
I think that the real danger to tennis is Padel. Let's not forget that the main tennis practice zone is Europe and here I have juste NEVER seen a Pickleball court nor met anyone who plays it in several EU countries, while it is clear that Paddle is growing very fast.
Padel is super boring to many. There is a padel court in my tennis club but no one is ever booking a spot. Padel will not replace tennis and its long term traditions. With players like Alcaraz Federer Nadal Agassi Djokovic how do you expect padel to do that?! Plus padel is only doubles lol. No matter how spectacular you think padel is when the ball gets out of the cage, it will never be as explosive as an Alcaraz-Sinner thriller. I watched padel, got bored quickly, never was even interested in picking up one of their cheap beach ball rackets to try. It might interest a few, but not the masses!
Our 5 local tennis courts rarely got used. Since pickleball came along the courts have pleanty of action now. Don't see the problem. More people are getting exercise and having fun.
X tennis pro here. Now at 43 I can say pickleball is far from “hype and novelty “. This game is here to stay due to so many reasons. It is spreading like wildfire and not going anywhere.
Ya, but Pickleball is a wussy 'sport' if it's going away or not. The natural transition is from Tennis is to Table Tennis, getting older. (not ping pong) I can't cover the wide Tennis court space area like I could 25 years ago, but in a shortened court area I am still very competitive and quick at age 69 with players half my age at the club level. Pickleball is popular with duffs with poor footwork, follow through fundementals, pudgy, bad knees, middle aged, etc.
When i was growing up in the 80s and 90s, we had so many tennis superstars. Connors, mcinroe then agassi/sampras then moving into federer/nadal/djokovic era. On the womens side evert navratalova then seles/graf, then the williams sisters. There were so many great tennis superstars and every grand slam was exciting. When you went to the us open you could talk to the players and casually get autographs. Tennis waa awesome and accessible. Now, who knows any of the tennis players or rivalries? Going to the us open is painfully expensive and the players are microscopic dots on the court unless u drop a college semester on a ticket. Tennis made itself inaccessible out of pure hubris. Now it’s paying the price. I don’t plan on touching w racquet ever again which is sad bc tennis was my life as a kid.
Heck of a lot easier for a child to swing too. If tennis is so superior, when that child is big enough, they'll naturally want to graduate to tennis. Or not.
Never really wanted to get into pickleball. Only played it a couple of times and it's a neutered version of tennis made for retirees. The first time I played padel was on vacation in Spain in 2018. I thought it was awesome and loved the wall aspect of the game making it much more dynamic. I had some experience from playing tennis, so it was easy to get into the padel game. I got a little upset when pickleball became the new trendy sport when padel is way better.
To give this episode some perspective, as Sweden is mentioned a couple of times. Very very very few people as of now know what Pickleball is in Sweden. With this kind of videos you might be able to sell it to Swedish hopeful entrepreneurs but many will probably take a step back and reflect on the Swedish ”Padel death” that occurs right now. A lot of Padel halls are closing down all over Sweden because there’s no money in it anymore, since people lost interest quite quickly after the Covid-19 years. The tennis clubs allover Sweden that almost fell for all the sale-speech and planned to rebuild two or three courts into padel courts are now _very_ happy they didn’t. Also an interesting detail related to this video that is not mentioned is that Zlatans Padel hall and many other in Stockholm are more expensive to play in than to play on most regular sthlm tennis courts. Just want to update some viewers on a few details that’s worth mentioning in relation to Sweden and to this video :)
Advantages of pickleball over tennis: 1. the smaller real estate required means you can put more courts into the same space. 2. there is more tolerance for varied surface types in pickleball. People are willing to play on wood gym floors, low pile carpet in church rec rooms, and taped lines on asphalt. 3. portable net systems allow for make-shift courts to be put up almost anywhere. 4. the cost of putting up those make-shift courts is very low (also much lower than the cost of padel courts with the external high fencing required for each court) 5. pickleball culture has been very welcoming to new players. It's normal at public locations for bystanders who are watching to be invited to pick up a paddle and get on the court to play. Most of the time you can expect to be welcomed to rotate into games when you walk up to a court to play (at public or open play locations). This cultural difference with tennis is (I suspect) one of the biggest reasons for the explosive growth of pickleball. 6. lower barrier of entry with regard to skills. But there are also great depths of strategy and skill required to master the sport. This is evident in the fact cited in this video that pro tennis players, who clearly know how to hit a ball with a racket with power, technique, and accuracy, but they have not dominated at the top levels when they have crossed over to pickleball playing against the top pickleball players with years of experience in the sport.
Problem is though, it is less exciting to watch. Fans will not really watch it when it just screams "amateur sport" at you. I am sure it is fun to play, and it is great that even seniors can use it to stay in shape, but that does not make it a true competitor to Tennis when it comes to people watching it.
@@MrSheduur the pro levels of pickleball are not amateur. The issues (IMO) is that people who do not play do not grasp the strategies and difficulty of many of the shots and exchanges. It's more subtle than many other racket sports because of the smaller court dimensions, the NVZ, and the rules that advantage the receiving team over the serving team.
This. Tennis is not welcoming to beginners. I’m not even a beginner, I’m a 3.0 who is rusty and I got thrown out of a meetup group for not being good enough
@@baldeagle4710 Yep, tennis is kinda a sport for snobs not only because of the skill level required but because it began as a sport for rich kids and has kept this impression that it is a sport that needs money to be able to play it per se and more money to be able to play it well. Basketball, despite the skill level required, can be played in slum areas.
To add to your OP, Pickleball has a couple of advantages over Tennis: 1a) More places to play. Indoor games can be held in school gyms vs expensive tennis clubs. 1b) As a result of the above, it’s more affordable. Costs me $5/game at the local rec centre in the winter vs booking an indoor tennis court at a dome 2). Underhand serve in Pickleball encourages more rallies. Makes for a more entertaining game 3). Seems to be more social. Where you can show up as a single and find a doubles match, no problem 4). Just anecdotal but I feel less strain on my elbow at the end of a Pickleball game. Fewer overhands, more dinking, less “drives”
I am grateful to Pickleball only because thanks to it I have found many new friends. A sport that unites all ages. Now I play Padel as well , but no tennis anymore , kinda boring after those 2
Companies are just throwing money at pickleball right now in hopes that it’s the next big thing but it has a huge problem.. it’s not very exciting to watch. It is pretty fun to play though. I’ve got no problem with it and will readily play tennis or pickleball.
Same happened with paddle in Argentina and Spain in the 90s but they did not defeat tenis. Simple to play for newcomers but you reach to your top level easily and points are boring.
So Novak was correct - the current corporate Tennis institutions are doing nothing to make tennis more attractive. Yet Padel and Pickleball are quickly getting more and more people and interest.
This is really what it boils down to. Millions of people began playing pickleball by simply going to open courts and jumping into a game with people they didn't know. How many people were introduced to tennis this way?
Exactly. Imagine showing up to play tennis and asking to jump in a game with some tennis players. They'd look at you like you had 2 heads. It's not an inclusive community at all. Every game is isolated. It's just a completely different environment. It's not as friendly, it's not inclusive, it's not as social... it's just not as much fun. And tennis blames pickleball for their problems. LOL. Tennis IS the problem. Pickleball is just the solution.
Great overview. As both a decent tennis and pickleball player, I think Pickleball is FAR more complex and deeper than tennis. Tennis is more athletic. But pickleball, due to the doubles format and the different types of shots, has much deeper complexity and strategy.
No. Every shot hit in pickleball can be also hit in tennis, but only great players can hit those shots. So, the game itself isn't deeper. The accessibility for decent to average players to extract and reach that level of complexity is simply easier in pickleball and more likely.
Think the main issue with Tennis at the moment is that there is a major financial barrier for someone to play or get coaching sessions to get better. I've played for over 18 years and it takes a long time, with lots of patience, and a lot of money spent on coaching to get to a position where you are able to engage competitively. I've recently picked up Pickleball and it's really fun to be focused more on gameplay tactics rather than technique over and over.
Padel actually comes from tennis and basque sport "euskal pilota" (literally "basque ball"), which is played with the hands in a court with 2 walls (fronton) or with a woden paddle in a 3 to 4 wall court. Jai Alai is also a variant of pilota played with a basquet in a 4 wall court. Those who never did go and check pilota, is incredible. Anyway, hope tennis doesn't disappear, it's my favourite raquet sport. Thanks for the video!
The problem that tennis player have is an invation on our facilities. We do not care how much those sports grow, we can even play them... Our concern is that is more difficult each day to find a tennis court availabe for TENNIS.
Yeah because the pickleball players showed no respect and just INVADED tennis courts preventing tennis players from playing. It's outrageous how arrogant these schmucks are.
I have been playing tennis for more than 20 years. I enjoy the running and challenges. I don’t like pickleball. It’s like ping pong and badminton. Few things about tennis, you have to pay permit to play in the park and second finding the same tennis skill level to play with is different.
One of the major intrinsic problems of tennis is the court being too damn big. Tennis court requires more space than many indoor team sports... just so 2 people can play. On top of that courts are pretty much permanent therefor they require a dedicated single purpose venue. It will always be expensive upper class sport.
@monica012077 To the point he's making though, from what I've observed, singles tennis is the version that most want to play. Whereas in pickleball, the general expectation is that you will play with 4 in a game.
@davidaugustine3686 You're only allotted one hour of court time with 2 permits. You get 2 with 4 permits. Wait till y'all have to purchase permits to play since pickleball is so popular and the $$ will be needed to maintain the courts.
I have some opinions in favor of but also against pickleball. My only gripe is that they’re building so many courts to the point that it’s hard to find a single tennis court in my area. Just paint pickle lines on tennis courts and you keep both crowds!
@@eejayem2k11 Or... pickleball is just more fun for people. The tennis community can also be snobby and exclusive. New players might find that as a big turn off.
@@CurtPrice he is right, people are lazy to learn or improve in tennis. Usually normal people have specific time to play a sport, not every hour crowding the court...
For me Padel was a gateway to Tennis. I had not played Tennis since I was about 7 years old, then I started playing Padel twice a week and when we can't get a group of 4 together we play tennis 1v1 instead.
Fun fact. The dog pickles was named after the sport. The actual name comes from rowing where the pickle boat would be the last in with all the leftover rowers. Pickleball was named that because the game was made with parts of other games in a backyard.
Ha, that makes for good cocktail party conversation. I read on the USA Pickleball web site that Pickles the dog was born in '68, or 3 years after the birth of the game. My kids are going to be crushed!
Accessibility is one of the biggest reasons football/soccer is so famous all over the world. All you need is some resemblence of an object that you can kick around. You can play it LITERALLY anywhere. Tennis on the other hand, you will probably never see this sport played in a third world country. You also need to be decently fit to even have a proper rally in tennis, whereas you can play pickleball with almost anyone. The younger generation also have short attention span, and will lean towards an instantly gratifying sport. They probably won't be willing to train as hard to get better at a difficult sport like tennis unless they decide to go pro. Of all the courts I've seen at our sporting grounds, tennis ones are always empty.
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I didn't like Pickleball. The reasons? Listed below All I see in Pickelball is Doubles, Doubles, Doubles, Doubles no Singles because where I used to play the game it was always doubles and games no singles games so I never learnt any singles,
So I lost interest because there was too much doubles As playing doubles don't give me time to feel my way around
the court as doubles is more faster and more cramped than singles,
I found doubles to be too fast paced. Tennis I have more time , pickleball I don't have always enough time
Swings Felt also awkward.
Always feeling rushed jammed..
Didn't like the faster timing
Disliked the kitchen dinking knee bending thing. In Tennis I use just pronation of the racquet to clear the
netcord but in Pickelball its all these little soft dinks...
Because the ball is plastic and full of holes. The ball dies more faster than a tennis ball does..
Pickleball had way more knee bending than tennis because the ball is much more lower down to the ground in Pickelball.
The court is much more smaller there's not alot of space to move the body around with the ball.
Pickelball Footwork is a little different to tennis
Pickelball puts more pressure on the 1st serve than tennis because you only get just only 1 serve in Pickelball.
Didn't really like the pickelball paddles. Grips are much more shorter on the paddles than on the tennis racquets.
Didn't feel very comfortable.
I have a slice drive that hits big flat penetrating pronations at 80-100 mph because I use a low to high swing motion to drive
the ball using pronation off the racquets edge. Well ripping backhand slice drives at 80-100 mph off the edge of the pickelball paddle worked but it lasted only just an hour and then after that I heard a loud crack and the pickelball bat snapped
all off the handle flying several courts away..
And that happened when i started first playing the game...and trying the tennis drives with it.
Oh....
In tennis driving the ball all flat using pronation allowed me to maintain depth and clerance at lower heights over the netcord
than the normal way where people usually float the ball with brushing under the ball with the strings and have to aim more higher over the net in order to maintain depth which can result in slices falling short and weak in the court if you don't get enough height.. So in tennis the net clearance was 1-2 feet or a few inches over it when using the big flat pronation slice drive but would be 3-6 or more feet higher if using the normal floating slice drive.. But in Pickelball the net clerance is much more lower, only just 1 foot or an inch over it with the big flat slice drive and abt 2 feet for the normal drive l A little bit too low,. Didn't really think much of Pickelball after breaking the bat.
So for these reasons is why I didn't like doubles because with more people on the court, and less space to move
around in with the ball I felt cramped in my swings and found the tempo in doubles was a little bit too fast.
@Courtside Tennis You are among the very few who have not yet spoken about the Sinner case (just an observation)
soon
@@Courtside_Tennis 👍
Pickleball is badminton for the untalented.
Tennis player here. I played pickleball for the first time a few weeks ago and it was fun. Kind of like playing ping pong on a huge table. It was super easy to play and I hardly broke a sweat, especially if playing doubles. So I can see why so many people love it -- easy learning curve and you don't need to be in shape to play it. But I still love tennis and won't switch until I'm old and can't play tennis anymore.
I went from badminton to pickleball.
Now I play pickleball for an hour and a half +, 4x or more a week @ 3.5-4.0 rating.
In singles, playing 2hrs, I easily burn 1,300 + calories.
Doubles is almost 800+ in two hours.
Mind you, that’s with 3-5 minute breaks in between each set.
I’m athletic, and because of pickleball addiction I have to eat a little more protein because I’m losing nearly 1/2 a lb a week.
All of my friends play now. I’m in several group chats, different acquaintances of all age range sending messages four times and dates that everyone’s playing. This did not happen when I played badminton or any other sport in my life. I’ve watched friends who were over weight cut down 30lbs over the summer even with a bad diet.
My state has been covered in recreational parks, tennis courts, basketball courts playgrounds baseball fields; you name it. And they have been empty for 15 years. The tennis courts have had little to no maintenance. But because of Pickleball, all of the parks have been redone. there’s almost nowhere to park vehicles on Sundays because it’s crowded with people playing Pickleball. I’m just happy that people are getting out of the house. Moving their bodies, and breathing in fresh air.
@@naturesbest7977on what level were you playing badminton? If you compete on a high level, I’m pretty sure badminton can burn the same amount of calories as the numbers you mentioned with pickleball
@@alan887 oh yeah, I was very skinny in my young days LOL. Badminton and hiking at the time.
@@naturesbest7977 that’s awesome! I stopped training and playing competitive badminton a while back. This resulted in me gaining 22 lbs😂😂
@@alan887 it happens fast unfortunately. But the pickleball, walking dogs and eating healthy started keeping it at bay.
The people that are playing pickleball aren’t going to play tennis if pickleball doesn’t exist. They were not playing any sport so we should celebrate more people getting active and outside in a fun healthy community.
Tennis is one of the most difficult skilled sports to learn along with golf. Pickleball is easier and faster to pick up and enjoy for those who aren’t going to play competitively but just recreationally.
I played tennis when pickelball wasn't an option. I would be playing tennis now if it wasn't for pickleball being an option now. I'm playing pickleball instead because it makes me and my friends laugh. Tennis simply isn't as fun for us. But I agree that it's great that both sports are an option.
Yeah, if it weren’t for tennis courts being converted to pickleball, this would be a total non-issue. Plenty of real estate for both sports. I agree with your take completely and wish people didn’t think so tribally
Yeah I don't think they're competitors at all. If anything someone might play pickleball because it's easy and accessible and then decide they need to scratch the itch more seriously and take up tennis. And pickle is no threat to tennis as a spectator sport. It's borderline unwatchable, and I will watch just about any sport
@@sethlichtenstein4442this is exactly what happened to me, have played pickleball with the family casually for years and finally decided I wanted a challenge and a more intense workout and have now picked up tennis as a 30 YO after never having played before.
Not true, a lot of pickleball players that I know, me included, are or was tennis players
If I wanted to play with friends, I would choose pickball or padel, but I wouldn't watch it. It's like futsal compared to football.
@@محمدسمير-ف5ث3ي the pettiness of the tennis corporates. Ooof. Hope novak can save tennis in the right direction
That's like me.. but with all sports lol. All so boring to watch I just end up sleeping
Naaa because most people would rather play 6-8 a side football than futsal. I’m a padel player now, great hobby but I love watching tennis
Pickleball is fun to play but not very interesting to watch. I think tennis will survive because of that
@@MATHEW94061 Tennis is just as boring if not maybe even more boring to watch LIVE.
I admit though, tennis HIGHLIGHTS are more fun to watch vs highlights in PICKLEBALL.
That's why pickleball will strive, fun for its easy learning curve.
Tennis will survive just because of its history and prestige.
Part of the decline of tennis is cost of entry.
Here in the UK, where it rains 98% of the year, indoor courts run you up to £25 an hour to play on.
Where is the sense a tennis court earning more per hour than 70% of all UK workers?
I love tennis, but pricing has just become a joke.
This.
They should charge that per month or per week as a membership.
98% is a huge exaggeration tbf the issue is the outdoors tennis clubs aren’t much cheaper
Exact conversation I had with my father a few days ago, we were comparing badminton and tennis but yeah the point still stands
@@angadsinghchhabra9422 yes badminton is another one where I've been priced out the market.
lol I only heard of pickleball recently when I was out playing tennis and they had a smaller court drawn into the tennis court. Everyone was playing pickleball so my buddy and I tried it out. Basically gave up tennis immediately for it. The fact that it's easier to play really did make it more fun. And the super friendly nature of it with the community is cool.
As much as i dislike pickleball, pickleball is NOT the problem. Tennis association needs to change. millions of tennis players and viewers have been suffering… goat novak trying to help save the sport, sadly we know the short sightedness of the corporates are obvious.
Liberals are the problem. They are 100% of pickleball.
@@helloeveryone0123 tennis is suuuuuuper elitist the people on the USTA site are all white and it looks like you have to pay thousands and join a country club to join. There are tons of people from foreign countries who love tennis but USTa makes it look like only white people are taken seriously
💯
Tennis is in a beautiful spot compared to table tennis.
well when tennis courts are being converted to pickleball courts its a problem
It's so frustrating trying to watch Grand Slams in the USA. There's too many pay walls and it doesn't include access to all the matches being played in grand slams. Ive given up watching the matches live, and just wait for highlights on YT.
IMO, the grand slams are the easiest to watch. They’re usually on a major network like ESPN (AO, Wimbledon, USO) or NBC (RG)
I will agree with you that there are more paywalls like ESPN+/Peacock, but that allows you to watch every single match at the tournaments if you wanted to. But you could just watch the main ESPN channel in a standard TV package, but you don’t get to choose which match is being shown.
It’s harder to watch the minor ATP tournaments because you need to have access to Tennis TV or Tennis Channel.
Google is your friend and will provide tons of free streaming websites. Just have to ask mate...
@@evanwride6638How many different subscriptions online would I have to get if I wanted to watch the main big one: All 4 GSs, ATP Finals, and ATP1000s?
I don't have cable TV. Do they have one subscription to watch all those or would I need to buy more?
@@sauce1232 Wish that had been my experience. RUclips TV allowed me to watch some of some matches on ESPN, with constant switching between matches going on at the same time, but my dream is to pay a flat fee for access to full, live and recorded matches, and that's it. Kinda like the NFL Packages. Heck, I'd pay for a Grand Slam Package! If only someone would offer it.
Who wants to watch a 5 h three setter or a 7h five setter. And all play the same style.
I think the main aspect that attracts people to Pickleball is the accessibility. Tennis has always had issues with its “rich kid” facade, and Pickleball is much more accessible to play than Tennis.
I play pickleball now because I’m less likely to get injured from it than in tennis
Novak was right with his assessment about tennis being less accessible because of the factors he mentioned. Hence, the so-called "rich kid" facade because of those factors.
Interesting take. I grew up dirt poor but bought a racket at a garage sale that I used as a kid till sophomore in high school.
I never viewed it as a rich kid sport.
Yeah, fully agree. Pickleball is easier to pick up and play. Tennis is a very difficult sport to play consistently and it generally costs a lot of money for lessons to get better
Pickleball is also a lot less technically and physically challenging.
Our seniors community in Arizona has eight tennis courts and eleven pickleball courts. Forty members in the tennis club, three hundred and fifty pickleball members. Forty-four players are usually on the pickleball courts with at least a dozen waiting; never more than eight on the tennis courts and they often sit empty. The diehard tennis players still refuse to have any of their courts made dual purpose. It’s turning into a war.
Lol the Elderly Court Sport War of 2024
@@urioriari34Uhh, the middle aged, the elderly with often poor form, slow, and out of shape are more of the Pickleball crowd. You go Tennis players! Stand your ground! Robert at 69 who is a current competive Table Tennis player, and ex Tennis player in the Phoenix area.
GOOD, GOOD GOOD!! You Tennis players keep up the good fight to retain those Tennis courts! I'm an ex Tennis player at 69, and now play club level Table Tennis where I am competitive with players half my age in a shortened court area. I will not give in to the overly trendy/goofy Pickleball. The name, plastic ball 'plink' and court rules alone makes me cringe, and I'm right here in your ballpark in Apache Junction Az.
U can't play tennis with all kinds of lines all over the court.
yes , f pickleball.
i hope they stand their ground for a long time
It’s a lot like the arrival boom of snowboarding trend - it was easier and lower barrier to entry in how quick you could learn and the cost of equipment (at least it used to be that way) but years on it bored people and had various negatives. And snowboarders go (back to in some cases or new to) skiing. Snowboarding still exists but its popularity has waned and it’s just not sustaining.
I started playing tennis because i played 1 match of pickleball in nyc during my vacation there. It was fun and my opponent told me he can see i have been playing tennis back home. I never have to that point to be honest. Pickleball is much more casual and easy to learn. I played one match where my opponent explained the rules to me. After 10min we could play a really good looking match. it was fun but tennis is much more interesting to me because of the skills and techniques you have to learn to play on a casual level.
When I grew up most of the tennis courts had backboard areas for a single player to practice. I was even trained by Fred Reed that if I couldn't hit 100 strokes against the backboard, then I was not up for serious matches. Today there are very few backboards at courts around the metroplex. That forces the sometimes impossible . . . that you matched schedules with another player who wants to go out and hit tennis with you. In the old backboard scene, sure, you're often taking up a court. Others show and want to play that court. Then you negotiate, meet other players, etc. I've challenged two other players to hit two-on-one, just as long as they observed the singles lines on my side; and we had a great time playing "doubles". Having backboards at courts allows for single arriving players to evaluate the skill and choose to ask that player for a match. Backboards were a major social event. A lot of tennis happened because there wree backboards. And now they're gone.
When I was 16 I got into tennis and would drive out to some courts that had a concrete wall at the back of some and would spend hours and hours learning to play tennis. It’s how I met 2 of my long term tennis partners in my 20s. I agree it’s sad so many tennis courts don’t have some courts with walls
@@corvus2512 It's worse than that IME. The crime and vandalism that has escalated across the city has caused the tennis coaches at the schools to lock the gates. They then tell you to drive an extra 10minutes to the nearest controlled facilities, and possibly pay fees. This certainly will keep people from entering the sport. I grew up driving less than 5min to my local HS courts to learn.
I totally agree.I miss backboards!!! They were terrific at improving my game.
yes!
I live on one of the poorest islands in Indonesia. Most of our neighbors have never even been to the local mall and going to a restaurant is an impossibility. But there are now about 30 pickleball courts on our island and several active clubs. I daily see poor barefoot villagers playing a pickup game.
Dimana? Pickleball atau padel? Saya tinggal di Indonesia juga tapi hanya lihat padel
@@Tr786hala di Lombok... Saya belum melihat Padel di sini. Hanya Pickleball. Di Mataram dan Senggigi. Ada pickleball di hotel, complex, BTN, dan SMA.
@@esquared5064 wkwkwk saya tinggal di Kuta, Lombok! Hanya Padel disini kak. Selong Belanak juga
that's amazing!
@@Tr786hala I think the Europeans living there must have built the Padel courts there since that's popular in Europe. And there's one on Gili T I hear. But in Mataram and surrounding areas, it's more a local grass roots movement toward pickleball.
Reminds me of the rise of racquetball on handball courts. It was so much easier to pick up and less stressful to play, that the handball players were squeezed out of their courts. Fast forward 25 years, racquetball popularity declines and not enough handball players are left to take up the slack, and courts are closed / repurposed.
I just started playing pickleball a month ago, the biggest thing I like about it compared to tennis is the accessibility and the people. I played tennis, but the people even pros in pickleball are nicer, more laid back, and more welcoming. But, I think there are people for each sport and if pickleball gets people up and out and getting exercise then that’s a good thing.
As a squash fan, I can relate. A lot of courts are being converted into cardio rooms and the like.
even some of your favs are playing pickleball… for example, last week during the cincy open, i went to my usual pickleball courts at my local gym and i happened to run into andrey rublev’s team playing pickleball. andrey wasn’t there ofc since he’s still playing in the tournament but i got to play with/against his coach (fernando), physio (marcos), his wife, and this other guy (idk his name). they were good, obviously, and they seemed to be enjoying it a lot.
I've played a lot more pickleball than tennis, see new people coming in all the time. People with at least a year of tennis experience can usually get to a 4.0 level in pickleball very quickly, within a matter of days. It's a matter of recalibrating shots so they don't hit the net or sail out of bounds, and learning basic pickleball tactics (trying to stay back at the baseline and just rip drives will get you slaughtered by any semi-competent pickleball player). But then moving from 4.0 to 5.0+ in pickleball takes about as much time for a converted tennis player as it does for a seasoned pickleball player. There are advanced shots and tactics that just take time to perfect. Sam Querrey and Eugenie Bouchard vastly underestimated what it would take to compete at the pro level. Jack Sock did not and deservedly is now in the top 10, but still has yet to consistently win any tournaments. And while most of the top pickleball pros nevertheless have considerable tennis background (typically D1 college tennis), it is increasingly common for the upstart challengers at pro tournaments to have a background in pickleball only, with little/no tennis playing experience. The game continues to evolve.
I think one of the issues in tennis can be the vast range of skill level illustrated but the UTR rating which tracks a person's level by two decimal points from 0.00 to mid 16 ish. When you play against someone 2 or more UTR points better or worse than you, the enjoyment starts to diminish. This serves to put people into cliques by skill level. It seems pickleball allows more people to play together because the skill quotient is relatively diminished by the smaller court, plastic ball, and paddles.
Yes, it can be hard to find people of a similar level in tennis. And it can come across as clique-y 😂 But ultimately what I love about tennis is how hard it is to be any good, and how rewarding it is when you make progress. It’s addictive to me and I’m my 50s still trying to get a bit better 😊
@@sophiak4299 this is exactly why I play tennis as well. 54 here. Tried pickleball twice. Absolutely hated it both times. A big part of hitting a tennis ball is the “feel” of it. Take that away and a lot of the enjoyment goes with it for me.
Here in the Villages with over 300 courts, it serms the really competitive pickleball players play everyday as the keep improving, but once they hit the glass ceiling like in tennis, they cut way back or give up the sport. Others get hurt and drop out. Thus, the courts aren't as busy as a few years ago. The injury rate seems higher with continuous play and sudden, fast reactions.
Pickleball is deceptive. Lots of falls among older people while running backwards to get a lob.
@@karenv8351 Ditto for tennis. If a lob gets over my head, I say "good shot." I've seen lots of serious injuries going back for a lob. At the rec level, not worth it.
People just want to combine exercise with having fun and socializing... So the lower skill required to play helps this happen.
Same applies to beach tennis... It is refreshing to step into the sand after a long day and have fun with your friends and new people you've just met.
They are great sports for the mental health.
There is space for everyone.
I don’t think it has to be a Tennis VS Pickleball problem. This is like skiing vs snowboarding. Both sports can thrive. Both “rec level” industries can flourish.
It is a competition between the two. Parks departments often convert a tennis court or two into Pickleball courts. Frequently the Pickleball courts are full mornings and evenings and there’s a line waiting to play. They look at the often empty tennis courts and want more Pickleball courts. This situation is extremely common. Most tennis players belong to private clubs and the park courts don’t get much play. You can show up by yourself to the Pickleball courts and be welcomed to play. Not usually so with tennis.
My 70+ FIL got big into pickleball. He’s gone on trips, joined regional org’s, and just loves it. I’m glad it exists as it gives him a social exercise. It’s a great sport for all ages but definitely for seniors.
I’m more annoyed that communities push back against the sound. To me, it’s the sound of community and fun.
I think the prize money will waiver down though. This is funny, but fortnite had a 30 million dollar world cup in 2018, but despite maintaining size and still being popular, top tournaments pay a small fraction of that now.
its more about growing the popularity so people think they can have a career by playing the game even though its only a marketing stunt
Thats crazy honestly. Did they just bait the little kids into playing it lol ?
I hope pickleball continues to boom so my tennis-playing friends and I can get the tennis courts without a wait 🎾
In my area, when 4 tennis courts need to be resurfaced, they become two tennis courts and 4 pickleball courts. My town and all the towns around me. I guess that is going on everywhere.
Amazing video man, you contextualized the situation really well.
I have only played tennis once in my life, and it was fun, but you quickly realize how difficult it can be.
However, I have been watching tennis these last few years, it has become my favourite sport.
I happen to play tennis and pickleball at solid ~5.0 level and love both sports a lot! Tennis fans are always comparing pro-level matches say between Alcaraz and Sinner to a bunch of "abuelitas" playing pickleball doubles in a park for fun. Next time try playing 2-3 best of 3 singles matches in pickle (or just watch singles match say between Ben Johns and Tyson McGuffin) and compare physicality to tennis singles. In tennis you have free points from serves and returns, much longer times in between the points/games and sets. I tend to burn more calories playing pickle singles, very similar numbers too tennis for same 2-3h sessions of play in Florida's heat.
That's the reason I love Pickleball compared to Tennis, it just feels like so much more of my time playing Pickleball is actually spent ~playing~ Pickleball, whereas so much of Tennis is spent acing, getting aced, and faults.
@@Jacob-ee8ux Skill issue.
@@Jacob-ee8ux Another large amount of time lost is retrieving the tennis ball after the serve or point.
I Love Tennis 🎾 more than any other sport... 👍🏻
Great exercise and more fun 😎... 👍🏻 😃..
I feel that Pickleball and Padel will be what Futsal is to Football:
Many people play it for the same reasons as described in the video (accessibility, more inclusive to begginer and age difference etc) but in the end they will still watch Football on the TV.
I know many people (especially over 30s) who almost never play tennis not Football anymore and now only play padel or futsal. None of them has never followed the pro circuit of these sports and still whatch tennis when they want to see a big performance
correct
Tennis only has a pickleball problem because it has an overall viewership problem, particularly in America. They gotta get their non-crown jewel events on mainstream American networks more often, and in order to do so they need more total viewership for smaller events. Nobody who watches tennis doesn't really play it, whereas tons of people across the big 4 American sports as well as football (not the US version) watch but don't play.
Exactly, and same for other sports that we also have variations such as volleyball, rugby, basketball etc. In the end of the day the mainstream goes to the primary one.
I believe that in the future tennis can grow due to the pickleball popularity when some pickball players decide to step up to the next level migrate to tennis.
The problem is going to be participation. If young people are playing more pickleball than tennis, naturally there will be less tennis players and less tennis viewership
Agreed easy learning curve and almost equalisation of skill makes it very popular. I can play with my mum and feel like there’s a challenge and she can still play and have fun. It so much more accessible. I live near Wimbledon but I can basically never get a tennis court anyway nearby, can get a paddle court nearly anywhere.
I recently went to Vietnam(Saigon)for 2 weeks business trip.I was blown away how many courts they have, how many players there were and how competitive it was. I played everyday for hours and hours during this business trip😅. $3 for 2-3 hours of play. For anyone to say or think Pickleball is or will not grow you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
Wow, didn’t know they were playing it over in Vietnam.
The amazing thing about the pickleball growth is that it has been done by word of mouth from people who enjoy playing the sport.
Pickleball in Vietnam is mostly a place for working girls meeting their customers😂😂😂. It is unbearably painful watching a pickleball match for me, it is so stoopidđ😂
@@DaiCaThanh71wtf are you talking about? You definitely are going to the wrong courts😂🤦♂️🤦♂️
I am pretty sporty guy and I love watching the big ATP tournaments.
I have played semi pro basketball, tried football, windsurf, boxing, wrestling swimming for years. My issue with tennis is that it is quite technical so it takes quite a lot of time to get into and actually enjoy it, which is very hard as an adult without so much free time. Padel on the other hand you can just go and play and have fun without having to practice for so long.
I grew up playing tennis. I recently switched to pickleball because I'm newer to my community and I want to meet people and it's easy to stop by pickleball pick up nights. I like that it's much more of a social sport. I wish tennis had more of a pick-up/quick games mentality like pickleball so you could cycle through who you play with more frequently.
Pickleball is fine for social interaction. So is golf. Tennis is for better conditioned athletes who wish to stay aerobically fit and who seek more all around fitness with their competitive lifetime sport.
Pickeball is fantastic, tennis players or every tennis community should be happy people are choosing sporting activity, if i had any court for tennis i would play it but only court we have is basketball and football court all on one concrete field, so yeah wish a pickeball was "problem" here too
Tennis is just really difficult to learn. Anyone who has ever taught a friend to play know that it takes months if not year until they can play a match with an experienced player where both have fun
Nothing is easy in life, thats part of the journey.
@@don9733thats why there is a possibility that tennis will die
@@Noname-rc6sv nope pickleball is just a phase, tennis has been here for 100 yrs and will be
Which is exactly why I look down on pickle ball.
Picks all is a trash , paddle little bit less, tenis is where the pros is on different level
Thoughtful, well-researched, excellent analysis. Love this content.
Pickleball is a nice leisure sport but it can never match athleticism,mental capacity,shot making of tennis and the aura ,history of tennis .. pickleball can never compare to the aspiration of lifting a Wimbledon trophy....Tennis will always be greater than pickleball ..but yeah the marketing of masters tournaments besides the 4 majors can be done better to engage the casual fan .
I think sinner alcaraz or rog could easily best pickleball top athletes
They said similar things about horses when motor cars came along.
Pedigree doesn’t really matter to your casual fan/player though. I play both and love tennis more but pickleball is just an overall more fun experience since it’s much more social and approachable. Pickleball has multiple easy to access leagues and open play is its biggest strength. I live in a massive city and there’s no tennis leagues outside of the tennis clubs we have. But there’s multiple pickleball clubs and leagues. Tennis just needs to be more approachable and easy to get into
@@mikethebeginnerpickleball is not the next super invention like cars 😭😭
@@mikethebeginner Cars revolutionised the world. How tf is that even remotely comparable?
people i know playing pickleball are those who never had sports.. im happy for them as they are now active, socialising etc.. this is really appealing and fit to those who want to learn a new sport at the age of 30+
I think people underestimate the athleticism at the top level of pickleball. Hand speed and reaction time in a firefight at the top level requires ridiculous athleticism. Shot selection and type is also considerable, so while it is not tennis, it is not trying to be. Looking down on pickleball as a “lesser sport” misses the point. It is a different sport, and the tennis player crossover into pickleball should pretty much lay to rest that it is a game that a tennis player could easily dominate. Easy to learn, but difficult to master.
3.5 tennis takes so much longer to master than 3.5 pickleball
@@bsommer1717 It is a moving scale in pickleball. As a former tennis player hitting an overhead in pickleball, it would go for a winner. A year later the overhead is being returned. A 3.5 pickleball player rated a couple of years ago would not have a chance against a current rated 3.5 player.
I feel like there is one more thing worth mentioning: amount of fun per minute when starting. This is why I picked up squash vs tenis years ago.
Tennis is a very hard game to become good at. Pickleball is easier to play and have fun playing, especially as you get older.
Pickleball is appealing because its easy to find partners your level, and its easy enough for beginners to learn and enjoy right away.
Put it this way. I saw this video and got excited because I wanted to hear about PICKLEBALL! :)
I'm a new viewer and subscriber! I'm a fan of 🎾 tennis, as well as a few other sports! I participate in a few sports as well, and 🥽 swimming, 🏀 basketball and 🎾 tennis are my favorites!
I enjoy your content, and I 1st watched your segment on the WTA parity, and found it very interesting, informative and accurate! I am chiming in because you failed to mention racquet 🏸 ball in this segment, and only mentioned 🏓 ping pong briefly! Maybe you can delve into these 2 sports in a future episode! Take care!
I am 65 years old and my exercise through the years was running and then biking as I got older. I picked up pickleball one year ago and find it easy to learn to play decently and easy on the body. Tennis would be harder on the body and harder to get a foursome together. Growing up, tennis seemed for richer kids (same for golf). Pickleball has all walks of life and different skill levels can have a challenge on the same court (not everyone would agree with that observation though 😅). Finally, almost every town over 10,000 people has some courts where you can show up by yourself, jump right in, and play for an hour or two and satisfy your competitive self, get exercise, and socialize with eight-or-so strangers who will remember your name when you come again.
Replying to my own post, I would have to back off on a couple claims a couple months later. 1. Pickleball can still be tough on the body. I experience soreness the next day which is usually better in two days. Maybe I should build up more tolerance. 2. People (myself included) DON’T remember your name 🤪but that is okay.
Tennis is a great sport and must remain as it always has been, I found Paddle Tennis and immediately found my new love, played and scored the same as tennis the only major differences was the court dimensions, a restraint line called the bucket line that no player can cross until the service receiver has hit their return, then there is the single underhand service. This tennis variant played with a de-pressurized tennis ball and a smaller paddle. FAST, hard and net driven a better kinetic ball strike isn't to be found in Tennis maybe Golf could rival! Pickle is huge but lacks any kinetic feel but as they say the masses are the _sses and like all paddle sports they play easier, learn faster and play longer into late ages then Tennis!
I was never into tennis, but getting into pickleball actually got me watching more pro tennis.
So you didn't like tennis but was willing to play a more boring sport similar to tennis? Lol
@@davidpickford.So what? They enjoy themselves. You're too busy worrying about your dying sport 😂
@davidpickford. Just because you find it more boring doesnt mean that other people think the same way 😉
@@davidpickford. It's not for you to decide which sport is boring
@@HSHAZAM The sport is borring. Its not up to you to decide what conclusions other people come to.
What happened to Raquet ball? In the 80's this was really popular.
Players got tired into running into each other and that stupid kill shot hit 1 inch above the floor gives no one a chance of returning, AND hitting off 4 wall serfaces, glad to see it go.
Here in Sweden it’s padel that has been dominating among racket sports for several years.
I think that padel has a ceiling on its growth due to the high cost of building the courts while you can put a pickleball court anywhere. In the US you see padel courts in high level athletic facilities like Miami or Chicago not in Newark NJ. Pickleball can be set up anywhere you have open space and from a revenue standpoint it makes sense for a tennis club to convert courts since you can get 4 pickleball courts per tennis court. As far as watching the game, I find pickleball extremely enjoyable to watch. I grew up a huge fan of tennis watching Borg, McEnroe, Connors etc but the game is now just two players pounding away from the baseline which I don't find very interesting. No one seems to play serve and volley in today's game which is what we get in pickleball on almost every play. Maybe it's because I don't watch that much tennis anymore, but it's what I see when I watch.
Pickleball vs tennis reminds me of the snowboarding vs ski war back in the 70s/80s
I used to enjoy playing and watching tennis, but since I tried Padel in 2018, I never went back. Now, the only sport I play and watch is Padel.
Tennis is often referred to as “the rich peoples sport”, so I left it for them to enjoy
With regards to the noise issue, the sound of the ball being struck is quite loud but I don't think it compares to some of the grunts you hear from the likes of Sharapova.
Give me the "pop" sound of a pickleball over the loud grunts in tennis any day. The absurd grunts on tv make tennis unwatchable.
You can have both now that she plays pickleball!
Uhh, Sharapova is old news history now. You need to catch up.
I agree with Andy Murray, these sports can exist side by side and may be a gateway to each other. The learning curve for pickleball is much much lower than tennis so that anybody can play. This introduction to racket sports can be a gateway to tennis to those players that are more technical and competitive. I come from a tennis background and fell in love with pickleball, but I realize that it is not as physically and technically demanding. However, I personally know 2 pickleball players who are quite good (4.5+) who never played tennis before who are now learning tennis because it is more technical and demanding.
I am old:(. I started as a kid during the late 70s when the tennis BOOM had started. All courts were full at 5pm. After 4 more courts were built, the same. Everyone playing were fair at best. Doubtful in a small town that nobody better than a 3.5 NTRP by todays standards but EVERYONE was playing. Today pickleball is same. Courts being converted into pickle courts and man at a deserted Memphis tennis center told me yesterday, that people call ALL TIME asking if there were pickleball courts. Tennis is DEAD sadly
between tennis and pickleball, i do feel a greater sense of accomplishment when i find a good groove and dominate in tennis- and in general i do feel like i get a great workout playing tennis (singles tennis). all that being said, the way tennis culture is and the deceptive difficulty to even be able to start playing, makes it difficult to grow. in tennis culture, you show up with a friend (or friends for doubles) to play a few sets which can take hours and everyone else is doing the same, meaning you need a lot of courts for everyone who wants to play... not to mention the difficulty of finding enough players who are on similar skill and athleticism levels to make it fun. pickleball doesn't have those problems. it's much easier to get into and it is possible for it to be fun even if skill and athleticism levels are different. my whole family can go out and play pickleball together after work and we can have fun, if we tried the same with tennis, it would be frustrating bc the young kids or older parents would never be able to run and match the power of someone in their prime... which makes it difficult to complete a single enjoyable point for all parties involved. also, pickleball also has more of a culture akin to pickup basketball at the park. you can show up with friends or by yourself at the local park and be able to play a few games within an hour because of how quickly people can rotate on and off the court... this seldom happens with tennis at the park. the only way tennis can match this community and quick rotation system is to maybe switch to only being able to play super-tiebreakers when people are waiting for a court... but that does change way tennis is normally played and strategized in the normal set play.
I am 74 years old. I play at a high level. Where would I be if I played Tennis at this age? Even if I could even play competitively. It's the age!!
My issue with PB is it’s taking over actual tennis courts and even some outdoor roller hockey rinks over here in SoCal and it’s so frustrating bc at least in my experience, PB ppl tend to have the biggest ego and complain the most abt court time
yeah as an aussie this just seems like a lazy person's tennis which we dont really care about except for the Aussie open.
I've played Tennis 3 or 4 times a week for the last 4 years and it's great.. but I'm 54, 5'7" and weigh about 60kg...Size and strength in Tennis means a lot... all round, and even more in the serve. Whilst in Spain last winter, for 3 months, I played Padel 3 times a week and it's such good fun and easier, more natural I would say, in terms of just hitting the ball, you don't use as much energy, which could be good or bad depending on what you want or can do, and size and strength are less important... there is no overhand serve for a start.
After 4 or 5 lessons and my brain getting the picture of where a ball struck by my opponent may be bouncing...after getting the basics into me.. I was definitely better at Padel than Tennis, and that is always fun, to be good at something. Padel is easier, and easier on the body (Tennis can be brutal) and just a bit lighter/more fun in some ways. It also has varied play like Tennis (unlike Pickleball). I'm sure I'll play pickleball too at some point but it doesn't attract me tbh. Somewhat like badminton, the lack of variation and technicality in it means I might get a bit bored after an hours play each time! ...Maybe Tennis and Padel now, and Padel and Pickleball in 10 years! :)
Beach tennis is much more easier onthe joints. 😊
Badminton lack of variation?As in what way?
Its true. I live in a very rainy and windy climate. At least 7 or 8 months out of the year tennis suffers. We have ZERO indoor tennis facilities in my country. Zero. Close to me there are 3 indoor padel centres. They are always fully booked. Tennis courts are empty
Pickleball and Padel are easier to learn than tennis
That’s the American way - it MUST be easy smh
kind of like Top Golf vs actual golf. Or ebike riding vs bicycle riding.
@@mosessupposes2571Padel is international. Good try tho
Agreed tennis takes skill and physicality whereas pb is not as much. But give it time. Cliques will start and exclude those not as skilled.
I don't think so. Badminton is alot more easier but American hate it
Bro, as long as people go out there, train, get the movement in, i'm all up for it. I'm a tennis player at heart btw.
Why does it have to be tennis vs. pickleball? There is room for both. Enjoy what you like. In fact, tennis is going through a resurgence since the pandemic started. Tennis tournaments are getting record crowds, tennis channel ratings are up, and USTA reports more people playing tennis last few years.
How about Table Tennis? NOT ping pong (casual garage term) It is quite professional at the pro level. Watch top rated pro player videos. At my 50's and 60's it gave me a new reborn raquet sport life where I could not cover the vast expance of a Tennis court area. Competitive now with players half my age. Robert at 69.
All but 2 of the 11 or so tennisclubs in my city have a waitinglist to become member, so tennis is as popular as ever here in the Netherlands.
We have ten full tennis courts every day where I play. Its popularity seems to be just fine.
Where is that ?Spain?
@@NATES84 Midwest us
I think the lack of a push for doubles is actually small problem for the atp. especially in America. The US is a massive market and even though in singles we didn't have very many players to attach to but in doubles we had the goats up until just a few years ago. Also it doesn't hurt that doubles is the most played version of tennis with adults.
As an investor, I'd fully support pickleball. As a tennis player, pickleball is for lame or elderly people and an insult to the talent required to excel in tennis.
Which is why tennis is being ditched by all but 5% of these "elites" that will not pay the bills long.
'An invester'..how 'bout that, a 'desk guy' acknowledging the reality. Robert at 69 who now plays competitive Table Tennis.
An insult? Whose insulted here
Our family plays all of the above. Anything that gets people off their butts and active is welcome. Personally , I find Tennis is the funnest to play and gives you the best work out. Blessings
I get why Padel is exploding so much lately, Its speed and dynamism makes it incredibly fun to watch and play, accessible for beginners but still with a huge skill ceiling. I think it will dominate way more globally than Pickleball in the long term.
Yes. Pickleball is just playing ping pong while standing on the table
I really like playing padel (and paddle and squash too), but the cost of building the courts and then charging club members to recoup the cost is going to put it at a disadvantage to pickleball. I play pickle at a tennis club, and they built a padel court. Pickle is $5 for non members, but padel is $80 / hr for the court. So I suppose correctly, $20 vs $80 per hour, although pickleball is free to members. They haven't announced a club option for padel. I've heard that the club management is gauging popularity. Anyway, in the US, given pickleball's cost advantage for club owners and players alike, padel seems to be going to same road as squash and paddle tennis. That is great games, but only found in exclusive clubs, to be played by those who who can afford it. Pickleball for the masses.
@@DanBlake3rd I'm in Europe, pickleball doesn't really seem to exist here, but Padel is all the rage, I'm pretty much addicted to it too. It's extremely accessible and a very social sport to play. But it also costs me about 3-6 euro for a full 1.5 hour game. Crazy to me thats it's 80 in us? I don't understand how it can be that much more expensive. It's really a very cheap sport to play here.
Yeah I tried to play at some new tennis courts they built at my high school where I live. They put 60m into all the new cities schools sports stuff. They kicked me and my buddy out asking for 60$ a month to reserve a court.
There’s 20 courts and I’ve never seen more than one court being played on at a time lol.
We immediately left and said time to try pickleball
I think that the real danger to tennis is Padel. Let's not forget that the main tennis practice zone is Europe and here I have juste NEVER seen a Pickleball court nor met anyone who plays it in several EU countries, while it is clear that Paddle is growing very fast.
Padel is super boring to many. There is a padel court in my tennis club but no one is ever booking a spot. Padel will not replace tennis and its long term traditions. With players like Alcaraz Federer Nadal Agassi Djokovic how do you expect padel to do that?! Plus padel is only doubles lol. No matter how spectacular you think padel is when the ball gets out of the cage, it will never be as explosive as an Alcaraz-Sinner thriller. I watched padel, got bored quickly, never was even interested in picking up one of their cheap beach ball rackets to try. It might interest a few, but not the masses!
@@acelive7 Come back in 10 years when Padel is in the olympics and read your dumb comment again.
The biggest danger to tennis is tennis
@@acelive7 Padel is extremely popular in Spain! Love watching it and playing.Took it up in my mid 60s!
Padel has also a big ceiling of skill, you can see some Padel players do incredible stuff even tough it's not as "physical" as tennis
Our 5 local tennis courts rarely got used. Since pickleball came along the courts have pleanty of action now. Don't see the problem. More people are getting exercise and having fun.
X tennis pro here. Now at 43 I can say pickleball is far from “hype and novelty “. This game is here to stay due to so many reasons. It is spreading like wildfire and not going anywhere.
Ya, but Pickleball is a wussy 'sport' if it's going away or not. The natural transition is from Tennis is to Table Tennis, getting older. (not ping pong) I can't cover the wide Tennis court space area like I could 25 years ago, but in a shortened court area I am still very competitive and quick at age 69 with players half my age at the club level. Pickleball is popular with duffs with poor footwork, follow through fundementals, pudgy, bad knees, middle aged, etc.
@@bobmalack481 Remember the famous tennis coach Nicholas Bollettieri? He said that pickleball is more aerobic than tennis.
Thats an insane comment, maybe he should go coach Tracy Austin and Aaron Krickstein for the senior circuit. Robert at 69.@@toms9864
When i was growing up in the 80s and 90s, we had so many tennis superstars. Connors, mcinroe then agassi/sampras then moving into federer/nadal/djokovic era. On the womens side evert navratalova then seles/graf, then the williams sisters. There were so many great tennis superstars and every grand slam was exciting. When you went to the us open you could talk to the players and casually get autographs. Tennis waa awesome and accessible. Now, who knows any of the tennis players or rivalries? Going to the us open is painfully expensive and the players are microscopic dots on the court unless u drop a college semester on a ticket. Tennis made itself inaccessible out of pure hubris. Now it’s paying the price. I don’t plan on touching w racquet ever again which is sad bc tennis was my life as a kid.
Footwork and eye to hand coordination in pickleball would help in building fundamentals for begginer tennis players..
Heck of a lot easier for a child to swing too.
If tennis is so superior, when that child is big enough, they'll naturally want to graduate to tennis.
Or not.
Never really wanted to get into pickleball. Only played it a couple of times and it's a neutered version of tennis made for retirees. The first time I played padel was on vacation in Spain in 2018. I thought it was awesome and loved the wall aspect of the game making it much more dynamic. I had some experience from playing tennis, so it was easy to get into the padel game. I got a little upset when pickleball became the new trendy sport when padel is way better.
All the tennis courts around me are empty…the pickleball courts are packed…it’s happening
To give this episode some perspective, as Sweden is mentioned a couple of times.
Very very very few people as of now know what Pickleball is in Sweden.
With this kind of videos you might be able to sell it to Swedish hopeful entrepreneurs but many will probably take a step back and reflect on the Swedish ”Padel death” that occurs right now. A lot of Padel halls are closing down all over Sweden because there’s no money in it anymore, since people lost interest quite quickly after the Covid-19 years. The tennis clubs allover Sweden that almost fell for all the sale-speech and planned to rebuild two or three courts into padel courts are now _very_ happy they didn’t.
Also an interesting detail related to this video that is not mentioned is that Zlatans Padel hall and many other in Stockholm are more expensive to play in than to play on most regular sthlm tennis courts.
Just want to update some viewers on a few details that’s worth mentioning in relation to Sweden and to this video :)
Advantages of pickleball over tennis:
1. the smaller real estate required means you can put more courts into the same space.
2. there is more tolerance for varied surface types in pickleball. People are willing to play on wood gym floors, low pile carpet in church rec rooms, and taped lines on asphalt.
3. portable net systems allow for make-shift courts to be put up almost anywhere.
4. the cost of putting up those make-shift courts is very low (also much lower than the cost of padel courts with the external high fencing required for each court)
5. pickleball culture has been very welcoming to new players. It's normal at public locations for bystanders who are watching to be invited to pick up a paddle and get on the court to play. Most of the time you can expect to be welcomed to rotate into games when you walk up to a court to play (at public or open play locations). This cultural difference with tennis is (I suspect) one of the biggest reasons for the explosive growth of pickleball.
6. lower barrier of entry with regard to skills. But there are also great depths of strategy and skill required to master the sport. This is evident in the fact cited in this video that pro tennis players, who clearly know how to hit a ball with a racket with power, technique, and accuracy, but they have not dominated at the top levels when they have crossed over to pickleball playing against the top pickleball players with years of experience in the sport.
Problem is though, it is less exciting to watch. Fans will not really watch it when it just screams "amateur sport" at you. I am sure it is fun to play, and it is great that even seniors can use it to stay in shape, but that does not make it a true competitor to Tennis when it comes to people watching it.
@@MrSheduur the pro levels of pickleball are not amateur. The issues (IMO) is that people who do not play do not grasp the strategies and difficulty of many of the shots and exchanges. It's more subtle than many other racket sports because of the smaller court dimensions, the NVZ, and the rules that advantage the receiving team over the serving team.
This. Tennis is not welcoming to beginners. I’m not even a beginner, I’m a 3.0 who is rusty and I got thrown out of a meetup group for not being good enough
@@baldeagle4710 Yep, tennis is kinda a sport for snobs not only because of the skill level required but because it began as a sport for rich kids and has kept this impression that it is a sport that needs money to be able to play it per se and more money to be able to play it well. Basketball, despite the skill level required, can be played in slum areas.
To add to your OP, Pickleball has a couple of advantages over Tennis:
1a) More places to play. Indoor games can be held in school gyms vs expensive tennis clubs.
1b) As a result of the above, it’s more affordable. Costs me $5/game at the local rec centre in the winter vs booking an indoor tennis court at a dome
2). Underhand serve in Pickleball encourages more rallies. Makes for a more entertaining game
3). Seems to be more social. Where you can show up as a single and find a doubles match, no problem
4). Just anecdotal but I feel less strain on my elbow at the end of a Pickleball game. Fewer overhands, more dinking, less “drives”
I am grateful to Pickleball only because thanks to it I have found many new friends. A sport that unites all ages. Now I play Padel as well , but no tennis anymore , kinda boring after those 2
Companies are just throwing money at pickleball right now in hopes that it’s the next big thing but it has a huge problem.. it’s not very exciting to watch. It is pretty fun to play though. I’ve got no problem with it and will readily play tennis or pickleball.
No one watches Tennis nowadays either. Check out the viewership of Tennis game vs other popular sports like NFL and MLB.
Same happened with paddle in Argentina and Spain in the 90s but they did not defeat tenis. Simple to play for newcomers but you reach to your top level easily and points are boring.
So Novak was correct - the current corporate Tennis institutions are doing nothing to make tennis more attractive. Yet Padel and Pickleball are quickly getting more and more people and interest.
I like Pickleball and Tennis. Tennis takes a lot more time/skill to master.
Pickleball is much more of a social sport. I haven't really seen tennis pick up games like pickleball..
This is really what it boils down to. Millions of people began playing pickleball by simply going to open courts and jumping into a game with people they didn't know. How many people were introduced to tennis this way?
Exactly. Imagine showing up to play tennis and asking to jump in a game with some tennis players. They'd look at you like you had 2 heads. It's not an inclusive community at all. Every game is isolated. It's just a completely different environment. It's not as friendly, it's not inclusive, it's not as social... it's just not as much fun.
And tennis blames pickleball for their problems. LOL. Tennis IS the problem. Pickleball is just the solution.
@@CurtPriceexactly.
Great overview. As both a decent tennis and pickleball player, I think Pickleball is FAR more complex and deeper than tennis. Tennis is more athletic. But pickleball, due to the doubles format and the different types of shots, has much deeper complexity and strategy.
No. Every shot hit in pickleball can be also hit in tennis, but only great players can hit those shots. So, the game itself isn't deeper. The accessibility for decent to average players to extract and reach that level of complexity is simply easier in pickleball and more likely.
Think the main issue with Tennis at the moment is that there is a major financial barrier for someone to play or get coaching sessions to get better. I've played for over 18 years and it takes a long time, with lots of patience, and a lot of money spent on coaching to get to a position where you are able to engage competitively. I've recently picked up Pickleball and it's really fun to be focused more on gameplay tactics rather than technique over and over.
Padel actually comes from tennis and basque sport "euskal pilota" (literally "basque ball"), which is played with the hands in a court with 2 walls (fronton) or with a woden paddle in a 3 to 4 wall court. Jai Alai is also a variant of pilota played with a basquet in a 4 wall court.
Those who never did go and check pilota, is incredible.
Anyway, hope tennis doesn't disappear, it's my favourite raquet sport.
Thanks for the video!
The problem that tennis player have is an invation on our facilities.
We do not care how much those sports grow, we can even play them...
Our concern is that is more difficult each day to find a tennis court availabe for TENNIS.
Yeah because the pickleball players showed no respect and just INVADED tennis courts preventing tennis players from playing.
It's outrageous how arrogant these schmucks are.
I have been playing tennis for more than 20 years. I enjoy the running and challenges. I don’t like pickleball. It’s like ping pong and badminton. Few things about tennis, you have to pay permit to play in the park and second finding the same tennis skill level to play with is different.
Pickleball = the evolution of Slapball - played with hands and walls in schools and neighbourhoods of ages. 🎉
Do the tennis decibels include all the grunting? Lol
One of the major intrinsic problems of tennis is the court being too damn big. Tennis court requires more space than many indoor team sports... just so 2 people can play. On top of that courts are pretty much permanent therefor they require a dedicated single purpose venue. It will always be expensive upper class sport.
4 can play if it's doubles.
@monica012077 To the point he's making though, from what I've observed, singles tennis is the version that most want to play.
Whereas in pickleball, the general expectation is that you will play with 4 in a game.
@davidaugustine3686 You're only allotted one hour of court time with 2 permits. You get 2 with 4 permits. Wait till y'all have to purchase permits to play since pickleball is so popular and the $$ will be needed to maintain the courts.
I have some opinions in favor of but also against pickleball. My only gripe is that they’re building so many courts to the point that it’s hard to find a single tennis court in my area. Just paint pickle lines on tennis courts and you keep both crowds!
Honestly it’s nice to see the tennis courts actually being used. They always used to be empty.
Agree!!
True in my town as well.
Coz people are too lazy to learn an actual sport
@@eejayem2k11 Or... pickleball is just more fun for people. The tennis community can also be snobby and exclusive. New players might find that as a big turn off.
@@CurtPrice he is right, people are lazy to learn or improve in tennis. Usually normal people have specific time to play a sport, not every hour crowding the court...
For me Padel was a gateway to Tennis. I had not played Tennis since I was about 7 years old, then I started playing Padel twice a week and when we can't get a group of 4 together we play tennis 1v1 instead.
Fun fact. The dog pickles was named after the sport. The actual name comes from rowing where the pickle boat would be the last in with all the leftover rowers. Pickleball was named that because the game was made with parts of other games in a backyard.
Correct sir
Ha, that makes for good cocktail party conversation. I read on the USA Pickleball web site that Pickles the dog was born in '68, or 3 years after the birth of the game. My kids are going to be crushed!
Accessibility is one of the biggest reasons football/soccer is so famous all over the world. All you need is some resemblence of an object that you can kick around. You can play it LITERALLY anywhere. Tennis on the other hand, you will probably never see this sport played in a third world country. You also need to be decently fit to even have a proper rally in tennis, whereas you can play pickleball with almost anyone.
The younger generation also have short attention span, and will lean towards an instantly gratifying sport. They probably won't be willing to train as hard to get better at a difficult sport like tennis unless they decide to go pro. Of all the courts I've seen at our sporting grounds, tennis ones are always empty.