Everybody went through some degree of trauma in their life growing up. That doesn't give you an excuse to go around hurting people to get back at the world.
Exactly!! I had to tell someone, just because someone has declared that they have victim status doesn't sanction additional boundary violations. Meanwhile, I'm teaching my toddler the same stuff.
Exactly. Maybe it would sound inappropriate, but I relate trauma with std - yes you get it from someone (generation trauma), and if you aware you have two ways - treat it so u won't give it forward, or staying away from others so you won't harm anyone. But you can't hurt people and claim that you are victim of another one (by ur parents or anything).
"Your personality and your childhood wounds are sort of making the narcissistic person's life easier-- the narcissistic person's childhood wounds and personality are making your life more difficult"-- TRUTH BOMB!!! 🤯
Yes. Ever noticed how they would tell you their childhood wounds were so much worse than yours could been: What the hell? That nasty chick never me back then (I am female recipient of that "woman's" nasty part of narc smear campaign, and no, in this case, there was no sexual thing between us, though the nasty pathological narc t roed for that too. Wow, sick.😊
Wow, so true, Dr. R.: They give not what grain of compassion. They make me sick, and in my opinion, the world is now in so much trouble with Trump Narc Adolf. God Help Us.
The cruel narc behavior is INTENTIONAL. They turn it ON or OFF as they see fit. Lots of people suffered trauma as a child yet did not choose to be evil as a result. They carefully hide behind a charming facade, especially early in a relationship.
This. Narcissisist are not Borderline. Borderlines have very similar toxic behaviors but at least it's not intentional and they actually love you (it still doesn't excuse their behaviors). Narcissists don't even love you, they were only looking for someone to validate them.
I read somewhere that just because a tiger eats meat doesn't mean you have to be dinner. This really helped me with my guilt about the way I handle the narcissist. I don't know if narcissists choose to be this way or not, but the fact is that they are this way. I can choose whether or not I want to be dinner.
@@judithargitay9860 at some level at some point in their life, they did choose narcissism as a coping mechanism. It's just so deeply embedded in them that they don't know this consciously, nor do they see it as wrong, nor do they want to change their ways.
It's the choice part that troubles me. Most that i have known seem to be missing the ability to choose a better way and become infuriated at the suggestion that they need to change. It makes them worse and more vindictive. That seems like a conscious choice at that point. Whether they do or not... aquired or genetic, i get it... i don't have to be their victim. I choose to walk away and stay with people who can choose and want to choose a happier, more caring, and civilized way.
@TheLakingc at some point they did choose it as a coping mechanism. And they can't let go of it because that would mean facing the truth about themselves.
🎉 I see you and celebrate you! I remember when I experienced this upside-down change 9/21/23...It has not been easy, BUT it was NOT Me (Dr. Ramani) I say the same to You!!🙏🏾
❤❤🙏🙏thank you @valiizajames925 I will check in on here yearly to reflect back. I'm definitely excited to bet on myself again. Hope all is well on your end & wishing you all the best in all the chapters of your life. We made the hardest decision ever and that gives me comfort in any challenges to come I know we can conquer it.
The biggest realization I've had with regard to having a narcissistic spouse is that I can't fix it. We can't be responsible for fixing damage we neither caused or have any ability to assist with. It's best to just separate as best you can and wish them well. No need to carry a grudge around that will only harm you.
Just leaving and letting go isn't always an option especially if they hold assets hostage and still want to hold on to you and manipulate you in this manner. It's not right and it certainly isn't just!
Agreed! With four strikes against her growing up in her family (Psychopathic father, severe alcoholism, incest & witnessing the death of a young sibling) my ex wife had a lot to overcome. However, there was no attempt at selfreflection and no accountability. Her attempts to harm our children was inexcusable!
Yes. To refrain from actively causing people harm. That is what should be expected from everyone. Narcs can do that, but they just don´t want to because they don´t have much empathy.
NPD means they can’t entertain the fact that they might be wrong. So you will NEVER get a narc to face their mistakes or weaknesses. Don’t bother trying just go no contact and walk away!
Exactly- I had it so bad in the 60’s& 70’s , my so called mother was super mean& extra cruel. Thank you . Took me 60 years to realize the truth& why I was so depressed& I drank& my life was a mess not believing in myself. Now I feel healed. What a breath of fresh air.
I am in a similar situation and my narcissst family is like you have no right to feel like this but they do the same disrespectful gaslighting and manipulation against you and gaslighting you need to take "accountability " but they are the same ones who mistreated and gsslighted you the scapegoat survivor TO MAKE YOU GUILTTRIP AND FEEL BAD and i hope we all will make it❤
It took me almost 5 decades to realize what I was dealing with. I knew that things were not right for awhile but nvr knew what until I was 48 and I’ll be 50 in April. My father alcoholic and narc and mother and that side of family narcissistic. They’re all cut off. The last one was my narc mother who on 11/14/2024, I packed my things and my daughter and dog and walked away in silence with my head held high. Stay strong everyone ❤💪🌹🙏✌️💯
Understanding that a narcissist's behavior may stem from trauma can offer some compassion, but it doesn't excuse the harm they cause. It's important to recognize your own boundaries and protect your peace, even when someone’s actions are shaped by past pain. Recognizing the cause doesn’t mean tolerating the behavior-it’s about finding a balance between empathy and self-care.
Dr. Ramani, you are amazingly in tune with how we feel and with the expectations put upon victims. It's a twisted society that expects someone who was raised in a narcissistic home "to have perfect responses to toxic behavior, and to live their life as a sacrifice to the narcissist's behavior, because it happens to be the narcissist's trauma response."
I often feel bad thinking that what kind of trauma he must have been through in his childhood.that a small innocent kid became like this as a protection mechanism. I get angry at his parents. Even though we are not together It makes me sad . , I wished he would have been opened to accept love and compassion!! He doesn’t even realize what he missed in life . Hope he will be able to feel love truly . May God bless him ..
1:15 That's how I put up with my mother until I turned 50. Until I realized no matter how difficult your life was, it doesn't mean that you need to take out on others. Otherwise, all killers would get away with murder.
Whatever made your narcissist the way they are doesn't change the fact that the relationship you have with them is dangerous for you. Early abuse is a tragedy for all who experience it but that doesn't mean you're responsible or obligated to put up with their way of managing that abuse. You have a responsibility and a right to protect yourself from such behavior. Life is complicated and just because you engaged with a narcissist doesn't mean you're now obligated to live in their world and be abused by proxy for all the things that went wrong for them. It's sad it happened but they still own their behavior and they're responsible for their actions. Empathy is wasted when it come to narcissists.
One of the biggest narcs in my life had an absolutely horrific childhood and he played that very well to wrap me around his thumb. But..... I'm sure his mother was one mean witch, AND, he also has now become the very thing he hated and that traumatized him. Both things can be true at the same time. I am sympathetic to this day, but I no longer excuse his behavior. Of course when I stopped excusing his bad behavior the relationship went south.
Good for you. I take the position of 'empathy but no sympathy'. Narcissists, as well as other PD types, feed on sympathy and use it as an enabling crutch. The power they garner from sympathy enabling is quite significant and, seemingly, exponential. My empathy allows me to forgive them, my self love ensures I move out of range of entanglement. If they are not willing to acknowledge their damaging behaviours, nor put the effort into healing themselves, then I'm not willing to help/support them.
I experienced PTSD after being assaulted, which was a significant turning point in my life. During that time, I was deeply in love with someone special. However, I made the difficult decision to let that person go because I believed it was in their best interest. I wanted to protect them from the potential impact of my trauma, recognizing that personal healing was my priority. The abusive narcissist has no leg to stand on.
That was a very brave thing of you to do. I'll go out on a limb and say that the majority of folks would not do what you did. Takes great courage to do the right thing when it's not easy.
You are a true humanitarian! Many of us would not have access to the wisomed and compassion of your words. You've made a huge impact on my life and am forever grateful. Thank you for your time.
A lot of younger people self diagnosing themselves as narcissists too is frustrating. They want a free pass to be assholes to others. Its actually very embarrassing for them. The worst part is the arguing with real victims, telling them they need to be nicer.
I believe the line for excusing their behavior is where they start hurting others. They do have the ability to choose to hurt or not. Otherwise they would not be so nice to you at the beginning of the relationship. I observed my ex-boyfriend's behavior enough to see that he schemed and planned his toxic behavior.
I've had trauma badly from childhood and as young adult, and I don't treat people the way my ex narc was treating me, they are to blame for their behaviour, period!
Thank you, Dr. Ramani, for this very clear explanation - "understanble but inexcusable" . I believe this is key to how we can let people understand the way we feel about harmful and abusive narcissistic behaviour to people around them/
Thank you! Exusing the narcs is ENABLING. They suffered in the past and their takeaway was to NEVER be a victim anymore = become an attacker. We, the agreeable folk, never gave up our truth, we weren't broken. We are stronger that them deep down, remember this.
The "narcissism advocacy community" part had me literally back up and rewatch that a few times-- did I hear that right?!?!?!? Is that actually a THING?!?!?!?! But then "ohhhhh..." I've seen it SO much, but putting it in those terms is like that shelf breaking 🤯
One of my biggest pet peeves with my siblings is when they excuse my parent's toxic behavior because the parent had a rough childhood. Trauma explains the behavior, but it doesn't cancel out accountability for one's own actions. And feeling empathy is a good thing, but not when you use it to give someone a free pass for their poor choices. So, yes it's okay to feel anger at a narcissist who has had their own trauma.
Realizing I've been held more responsible for the narcs childhood than they've held their parents responsible was eye opening for me. If giving my entire soul to fix their childhood could have healed them it would've worked by now. We are both adults and responsible for our own healing.
Ugh. My Narc mother blames everything on her childhood and everything else in her past. Two of her favorite lines are “Who has been through as much as me??”, and “She/He couldn’t live a day of my life!!”. She thinks she’s a heroine in her own life story. When I was a teenager and would fight with her when she would get on her high horse of martyrdom id point to the old couple down the street who owned and ran a newspaper/ candy store. They were Auschwitz survivors with the tattoos still on their arms. Both lost their entire families in the gas chambers. They were as nice as could be. Never complained and had two well adjusted kids. My mother would just scoff at me and say I was too young to understand or have the temerity to compare her suffering to theirs. Sigh.
Exactly. There is no breach to be made into their victim story. They will absurdly diminish your argument and ardently amplify their own. If you still have the gall to push your position they can go ballistic, ridicule you, threaten physical abuse and even send their flying monkeys after you filled with their fabricated, one eyed, version of events.
No I don't believe it. I remember a sibling since a baby, before the heavy sht took place. Always a dishonest, devious, envious and manipulating hypocrite with a masterfully angelic look. Nearly all of us have traumas, not all of us as spineless and shameless sadists
As an adult we have free will to be or not to be how we choose. A mature, caring person doesn’t seek to hurt others. Narcissists are immature and chose to remain that way.
There is a world of difference between saying that something *explains* abusive or inappropriate behavior, and saying it *excuses* said behavior. We as empaths want to understand the why, naturally. But please understand also that you should never give someone a pass just because you understand the why.
Yup, explanation =/= justification and since most narcissists tend to engage in projection and blame-shifting and refuse any actual help, you can feel empathy towards them while disengaging from their toxic behaviour at the same time
But what's really suprising to me is the fact that so many self-proclaimed 'empaths' in this comment section and perpetuating misinformation about narcissists "being born and not made". Narcissists aren't villains from a Disney movie and I don't understand why so many people feel the need to deny their childhood traumas and completely dehumanize them..
Disrespecting, demeaning, insulting and sneering at people is entertaining to them. Emotional abuse is not physically abusive at first, but it ends up that way. Those of us who are encouraged to stick it out in these relationships however they present, end up with illnesses while the narcissistic person is nourished by the suffering of their target.
Thank you lots of appreciation, one thing I refuse to become is that what has caused harm to me. Id rather hurt, bleed and break the chain to create the change. Id never put my pain or childhood beaten on to another because its selfish and completely wrong and it holds no love. To hold love is strength, to hold hate is week. Its a choice. That has no measure of trauma. Another words trauma has nothing to do with how one makes there choice. I choice love. May love be with all today.
On and off I feel that I abandon him. He didn’t care about how I felt the million times he abused me and when he almost beat me to death. I am trying my best.
I've gotten angry about their behavior and their damaged attitude. I've gotten angry about them using their trauma as an excuse instead of actively working on changing their response to it. Of course I can be angry about it. My anger has to be managed. the problem with many narcissists is they don't manage theirs.
I pity my narcissist. She'll never be content with what she has and at near 50 is still trying to play mind games. Unless, you're extremely gullible, you find out really fast it's all lies.
You can have understanding and compassion for someone abusive, in the sense that you can see WHY they are the way they are and feel sad for them, however, you have every right to be angry at them for the pain and trauma they caused YOU. Their pain and trauma does NOT justify hurting others and being abusive
Mr. Rogers said, "Find the helpers." I cannot convey sufficiently in words my gratitude to and for Dr. Ramaini. Thank you, for seeing beyond the "conventional wisdoms" and the glad handling, read; gaslighting, afforded to narcissists and advocating instead for their targets. You are an invaluable source of information, empathy and compassion in its truest form. Thank you. My deepest gratitude.
Thank you for this topic Dr Ramani. It make furiously when people excuse bad behavior with the cliche “hurt people, hurt people.” Now I call BS on that. We’ve all been hurt and if we all used that as an excuse and struck out at others, we’d probably all be dead.
As a self aware diagnosed narcissist, I understand for my part anyway that childhood trauma made me into what I am, however that doesn't give me a free pass to destroy everyone.
Abusing another person is a choice. A choice there is absolutely not a single excuse for. I don t care about those poor narcissistic abusers trauma. F# that.
My goodness! Thank you again so much Dr Romani This video helped bring to the surface and open my eyes a little wider again as I was already aware. It is a very tough situation when it comes with a parent of narcissistic personality disorder. We were shaped by our experiences in the world in childhood. Supports we had or didn't have. I suffered for so many years, Thank you for your knowledge your expertise your kindness You're willing to sit and do these videos to help survivors. My words fall short as I say thank you. May God bless you
An identity is a crucial component to a personhood and they don’t have one. Nature abhors a vacuum so something else has taken residence in it’s absence. Science keeps conveniently glossing over this part. Their inner child can’t get rehabilitated/grow up because they’re afraid of it too. I was mad at the narcissist before I understood we were both playing a game of survival. Submission to the entity.
Agree, very difficult..I found if you call them out, with unacceptable behaviour, though understandable.. You are the one accused of being unempathetic.. You let them be and you're accused of being uncaring..Learnt the hard way.. You can't win. In the end you just have to do what's right for you.
Can I be mad at people who take their trauma, dump it onto me and many others tenfold and blame me for it? Absolutely. But being mad costs my energy, so I prefer to simply acknowledge them for what they are: an empty shell with way too sharp edges.
So Dr R. I’ve been seeing a life coach to help me deal with emotional issues. After becoming acquainted with your RUclips videos in your education and narcissism and what it is. I’ve come to realize that my father was narcissistic, extreme, my sister, and my second husband of 20 years. When I speak about narcissist to my life coach, she says well you attract these people to you because you need to learn a lesson? In my head that doesn’t sound correct. No one had ever choose the manipulation, the abuse, the gaslighting the crazy making as a choice to learn a lesson. She says well you have narcissistic tendencies too, and you need to be forgiving of these people and you need to accept them because they’re traumatized also. So hearing your post today. It has really reached my heart and made me very confused. Do I draw these people to me? Do I make the act this way and it’s insane to say well you’re a narcissist too. And I have to forgive them and I have to just let it go. This is telling me that it’s my issue not theirs. I feel like come back with a narcissist.
Narcissists still choose to not get help. I honestly hate when people make excuses for their behavior. Everyone can choose how they treat people and can choose to be a better person. Most narcissists just choose to continue in their abusive ways, no excuses for them,
A while back, Richard Grannon was citing research that NPD is genetic -- hard wired -- baked in. It's the difficult personality that is the determining factor.
Can you talk about early childhood trauma, this video and having adopted children with many placements, or adopted from foster care, disrupted but ways we can help them heal when it triggers our own history. So much is lacking in preparing to parent and fir adoption, RAD is not always understood and many parents desperately need concrete ways to navigate parenting, when generational trauma rears up, your support system thinks you are dysfunctional when you do things to support your child with an emotional age much younger than they are or disorders that are mostly aimed at mom when at home. Your videos are so insightful. I am hesitant to say publicly to protect our kids and so many struggle alone afraid to reach out.
Wow, just the topic that has been on my mind lately! I think I know what wisdom, from your experience, you may share, but I am typing this early in this video, but so far you are saying what I thought you might. .. Been a RUclips appreciator a while now, Dr. R.
Yes this happened when I couldn't help but shame my narcissistic mother in my wedding speech and she said nothing and kept herself together until the next morning when she seemed to have a raging fit in front of everyone, a real spectacle of narcissistic rage and shame. But she had no shame to jump into my wedding ceremony and interrupt it while also making a scene for attention. So they do know what they're doing and they usually don't care.
From my own experience from my narcissistic mother and her family, i remember they when the being cruel to me they would follow it by acting so innocent. If they had any illness, it was a forever free from accountability pass.You need to not ever take a stand because of heart ect If you sick, (nausea. pain) it was you are detroying our pleasure.
Exactly, this is why I can no longer associate with my father and mother. They will not recognize any faults of their own that shaped my behavior. I sucked as a mother , as a person because of their narcissistic dominance of me always causing them problems
I think me and my partner maybe both and are mirrors to one another as we switch back and forth. I don’t think one of us is immutable while the other is not in this case.I hope healing is possible for both of us even though it feels improbable at times.
Thank you so much for all of your videos. You have helped me to put so many things in the right perspective. You continue to change so many of our lives for the better. I can't thank you enough for your insight and compassion. May you be blessed and also find healing. ❤
Really good points. It was helpful to me. NEX wrote an article about his chilldhood trauma and gave it to everyone that came into our lives especially the women. Excuse booklet. Please consider that prenatal trauma also effects personality. Son with fetal alcohol syndrome has BPD. Adopted at birth and many other issues of brain damage but not abusive childhood. Heritability could be a factor and majority of people with BPD have substance abuse issues. Please don't rule out brain damage as a factor in personality traits. If your hippocampus is damaged inutero you're going to function differently.
You are allowed to be mad because they made you angry. You can choose to let that anger fuel your grey rock or fuel your no contact but try not to let them know they made you mad
It's hard being mad at my siblings after I learned the biggest secret they were made to keep. My dad died at the hands of our stepbrother. They protected him from facing accountability and not go to jail for his behavior. He spent 3 days in jail after he murdered our father on cold blood. Had he been jailed, my father possibly could have lived past aged 54..
saying that something made someone a certain way is a cop out. For example, people can blame others for alcoholism, but you choose to take it up. Blaming bad behavior on something else is a cop out. Plenty of crooks use it to get out of sticky situations
My Dad's go-to vis-a-vis Mom was always, "But she can't help it!" I finally blurted, "Bullshit. In the final analysis, we're all responsible for our own behavior." But that response begs the age-old legal question: How mentally ill does one have to be to be absolved of their detrimental actions?
I believe some are born narcissists and some turn into one from bad parenting. That's why mental screenings should be mandatory before becoming parents, to break the cycle.
They LOVE being excused, regardless of the reason. They consider "forgiveness" to not only be their right, it is permission to continue being and doing whatever they want.
Children are not responsible for trauma experienced. However, every adult, narc or not, is responsible for their actions and what they do with that trauma. Whether we heal, stay wounded, or become a perpetrator themselves; that is our choice. I am choosing to heal. I do not want my trauma to even inadvertently negatively affect those around me, especially my children.
Absolutely true. Just cause I was dealing with trauma due to loss doesnt make me a Narcissist in which my childrens father was diagnosed a Narcissist. Now we are going through trauma and a nightmare. The daughter here where im at lost her daughter who died at daycare. The grandchild i babysat one day a week. One week ago while i grieve alone as my ex husband and other chikdren came here from Alaska and have been with her. Last night I lost me loveable siberian husky beautiful dog thats been with me since my mom died. To Alaska and back here and in my car with me while i work. I had to hold him, put him down and get him cremated and feel a great loss. All in one week. There are strangers that cry over it and amazed im at work. A job tgat wages doesnt qualify me for housing and we only get three days of bereavement. I have the right as her grandmother to grieve and to geieve the loss of my wonderful companion dog. Im alone and i grieve alone after a great nightmare. After i being there through it all.
So trauma does not make you a Narcissist. My goodness has always been real and my heart is huge. Anyone who has loved a dog for example as i have so greatly is a good person with love to give. Im sick of everything their father does and has been diagnosed with shifts the blame and tx towards me. Two parents can be entirely different. Me who got the "A" in child development and completely empathetic. Him disgnosed a Narcissist and highly abusive and destructive towards me. Ive said so many things in comments telling my story in parts. The mud roles down to me everytime.
I have a narcissistic parent. They always told me about their sad childhood experience. They always told me "You should understand us." Understanding is a curse in my childhood. When I was a child, I was always wondering why me. Why should I always be required to understand others and why no one understand me. Now, I know it is just a narcissist's excuse. Just excuses. Noting more. I have a different response to narcissists now. I understand your behavior. However, it doesn't mean I will or should forgive you. That's it. I don't forgive you. I choose not to forgive you. Whether you deserve it or not. I don't forgive you.
Unless they’re a narcissist, who’s greatly affected my life, from their past, I am often not that mad at them, because I see the red flags and patterns and are disconnecting with them, before a relationship even gets going. Dealing with narcissists sometimes has lot to do with mitigation and elimination.
my mom is 64 and I am 40. my father ended his life 12 years ago and afterwards I suffered a massive mental breakdown as I also ended an engagement. to I grew up as the family scapegoat and my father and sister lived to make themselves look good to my mom at my expense. our whole family was a lie and I was the only one who admitted it. she is an alcoholic with bpd and npd ironic she is a phd in psychology so good luck finding anyone to convince her she is ever wrong. I have no kids and neither does my sister my aunt has 10 grandkids and 15 great grandkids.
I think you're wonderful I have been with a narcissist it's been hell I knew him since I was 14 great funny smart you make me feel sane thank you at 55 now living with ms I see all devastating now I have rage and I want to leave so badly I feel like I now I could have left anytime hopefully I have a update thank you you have no idea you're work is so important God bless ❤
Not mad, but it’s how I learned to forgive. Because they know not what they do. I can forgive them,m for the actions caused by their trauma. And then I can walk away.
Everybody went through some degree of trauma in their life growing up. That doesn't give you an excuse to go around hurting people to get back at the world.
Exactly!!
Amen!!🤷♀️👌
Exactly!! I had to tell someone, just because someone has declared that they have victim status doesn't sanction additional boundary violations. Meanwhile, I'm teaching my toddler the same stuff.
Exactly. Maybe it would sound inappropriate, but I relate trauma with std - yes you get it from someone (generation trauma), and if you aware you have two ways - treat it so u won't give it forward, or staying away from others so you won't harm anyone. But you can't hurt people and claim that you are victim of another one (by ur parents or anything).
It may be the reason. It is not an acceptable excuse to continue those behaviours
"Your personality and your childhood wounds are sort of making the narcissistic person's life easier-- the narcissistic person's childhood wounds and personality are making your life more difficult"-- TRUTH BOMB!!! 🤯
Agreed. They pick on people with trauma to get their nails in and manipulate that weaknesses.
Yes. Ever noticed how they would tell you their childhood wounds were so much worse than yours could been: What the hell? That nasty chick never me back then (I am female recipient of that "woman's" nasty part of narc smear campaign, and no, in this case, there was no sexual thing between us, though the nasty pathological narc t roed for that too. Wow, sick.😊
Wow, so true, Dr. R.: They give not what grain of compassion.
They make me sick, and in my opinion, the world is now in so much trouble with Trump Narc Adolf. God Help Us.
Very good hit the nail on the head! :)
The cruel narc behavior is INTENTIONAL. They turn it ON or OFF as they see fit. Lots of people suffered trauma as a child yet did not choose to be evil as a result. They carefully hide behind a charming facade, especially early in a relationship.
Exactly! I had it rough but promised myself to carry good energy later in life and inspire others as a teacher. I've stayed true to my word.
This. Narcissisist are not Borderline. Borderlines have very similar toxic behaviors but at least it's not intentional and they actually love you (it still doesn't excuse their behaviors). Narcissists don't even love you, they were only looking for someone to validate them.
I read somewhere that just because a tiger eats meat doesn't mean you have to be dinner. This really helped me with my guilt about the way I handle the narcissist. I don't know if narcissists choose to be this way or not, but the fact is that they are this way. I can choose whether or not I want to be dinner.
They do not choose to be this way. But you definitely do not have to serve yourself up as dinner either.
@@judithargitay9860 at some level at some point in their life, they did choose narcissism as a coping mechanism.
It's just so deeply embedded in them that they don't know this consciously, nor do they see it as wrong, nor do they want to change their ways.
I love this! Thank you!
It's the choice part that troubles me. Most that i have known seem to be missing the ability to choose a better way and become infuriated at the suggestion that they need to change. It makes them worse and more vindictive. That seems like a conscious choice at that point. Whether they do or not... aquired or genetic, i get it... i don't have to be their victim. I choose to walk away and stay with people who can choose and want to choose a happier, more caring, and civilized way.
@TheLakingc at some point they did choose it as a coping mechanism. And they can't let go of it because that would mean facing the truth about themselves.
Waking up in my own apartment day one for this new chapter of my life.
🎉 I see you and celebrate you! I remember when I experienced this upside-down change 9/21/23...It has not been easy, BUT it was NOT Me (Dr. Ramani) I say the same to You!!🙏🏾
❤❤🙏🙏thank you @valiizajames925 I will check in on here yearly to reflect back. I'm definitely excited to bet on myself again. Hope all is well on your end & wishing you all the best in all the chapters of your life. We made the hardest decision ever and that gives me comfort in any challenges to come I know we can conquer it.
I sincerely hope this new chapter brings the happiness, serenity and gratitude you are after. Well done for taking this new step! ❤
❤❤❤
You got this! :D
The biggest realization I've had with regard to having a narcissistic spouse is that I can't fix it. We can't be responsible for fixing damage we neither caused or have any ability to assist with. It's best to just separate as best you can and wish them well. No need to carry a grudge around that will only harm you.
Just leaving and letting go isn't always an option especially if they hold assets hostage and still want to hold on to you and manipulate you in this manner. It's not right and it certainly isn't just!
@@Felix4art192 Let go of the emotions. Stick to business.
Two videos in one day? Dr. Ramani is on a mission, sheesh! You are saving lives, sister.
At some point they have to take accountability for their personhood. They can do the work to not actively be causing people harm. They choose not to.
💯💯💯💯💯💯💯
Agreed!
With four strikes against her growing up in her family (Psychopathic father, severe alcoholism, incest & witnessing the death of a young sibling) my ex wife had a lot to overcome.
However, there was no attempt at selfreflection and no accountability.
Her attempts to harm our children was inexcusable!
Yes. To refrain from actively causing people harm. That is what should be expected from everyone. Narcs can do that, but they just don´t want to because they don´t have much empathy.
NPD means they can’t entertain the fact that they might be wrong. So you will NEVER get a narc to face their mistakes or weaknesses. Don’t bother trying just go no contact and walk away!
Exactly- I had it so bad in the 60’s& 70’s , my so called mother was super mean& extra cruel. Thank you . Took me 60 years to realize the truth& why I was so depressed& I drank& my life was a mess not believing in myself. Now I feel healed. What a breath of fresh air.
I am in a similar situation and my narcissst family is like you have no right to feel like this but they do the same disrespectful gaslighting and manipulation against you and gaslighting you need to take "accountability " but they are the same ones who mistreated and gsslighted you the scapegoat survivor TO MAKE YOU GUILTTRIP AND FEEL BAD and i hope we all will make it❤
It took me almost 5 decades to realize what I was dealing with. I knew that things were not right for awhile but nvr knew what until I was 48 and I’ll be 50 in April. My father alcoholic and narc and mother and that side of family narcissistic. They’re all cut off. The last one was my narc mother who on 11/14/2024, I packed my things and my daughter and dog and walked away in silence with my head held high. Stay strong everyone ❤💪🌹🙏✌️💯
❤❤❤
Thank you Dr Ramani for all that you do!! ❤
Understanding that a narcissist's behavior may stem from trauma can offer some compassion, but it doesn't excuse the harm they cause. It's important to recognize your own boundaries and protect your peace, even when someone’s actions are shaped by past pain. Recognizing the cause doesn’t mean tolerating the behavior-it’s about finding a balance between empathy and self-care.
Dr. Ramani, you are amazingly in tune with how we feel and with the expectations put upon victims. It's a twisted society that expects someone who was raised in a narcissistic home "to have perfect responses to toxic behavior, and to live their life as a sacrifice to the narcissist's behavior, because it happens to be the narcissist's trauma response."
I often feel bad thinking that what kind of trauma he must have been through in his childhood.that a small innocent kid became like this as a protection mechanism. I get angry at his parents. Even though we are not together It makes me sad . , I wished he would have been opened to accept love and compassion!! He doesn’t even realize what he missed in life . Hope he will be able to feel love truly .
May God bless him ..
1:15 That's how I put up with my mother until I turned 50. Until I realized no matter how difficult your life was, it doesn't mean that you need to take out on others. Otherwise, all killers would get away with murder.
All this makes so much sense to me now. I Am a little overwhelmed right now. You hit the nail on the head. Dealing with this is so hard.
Whatever made your narcissist the way they are doesn't change the fact that the relationship you have with them is dangerous for you. Early abuse is a tragedy for all who experience it but that doesn't mean you're responsible or obligated to put up with their way of managing that abuse. You have a responsibility and a right to protect yourself from such behavior. Life is complicated and just because you engaged with a narcissist doesn't mean you're now obligated to live in their world and be abused by proxy for all the things that went wrong for them. It's sad it happened but they still own their behavior and they're responsible for their actions. Empathy is wasted when it come to narcissists.
One of the biggest narcs in my life had an absolutely horrific childhood and he played that very well to wrap me around his thumb. But..... I'm sure his mother was one mean witch, AND, he also has now become the very thing he hated and that traumatized him. Both things can be true at the same time. I am sympathetic to this day, but I no longer excuse his behavior. Of course when I stopped excusing his bad behavior the relationship went south.
Good for you. I take the position of 'empathy but no sympathy'. Narcissists, as well as other PD types, feed on sympathy and use it as an enabling crutch. The power they garner from sympathy enabling is quite significant and, seemingly, exponential. My empathy allows me to forgive them, my self love ensures I move out of range of entanglement. If they are not willing to acknowledge their damaging behaviours, nor put the effort into healing themselves, then I'm not willing to help/support them.
I experienced PTSD after being assaulted, which was a significant turning point in my life. During that time, I was deeply in love with someone special. However, I made the difficult decision to let that person go because I believed it was in their best interest. I wanted to protect them from the potential impact of my trauma, recognizing that personal healing was my priority. The abusive narcissist has no leg to stand on.
This comment should be pinned to the top of the list!
@justme9818 Thank you 😊
That was a very brave thing of you to do. I'll go out on a limb and say that the majority of folks would not do what you did. Takes great courage to do the right thing when it's not easy.
This is great clarity….understanding is not accepting the behavior they wont make an effort to change…
You are a true humanitarian! Many of us would not have access to the wisomed and compassion of your words. You've made a huge impact on my life and am forever grateful. Thank you for your time.
But I see the light within them!! They hurt me, but I see the loving beings they are/can be. It's heartbreaking. I lose every time.
A lot of younger people self diagnosing themselves as narcissists too is frustrating. They want a free pass to be assholes to others. Its actually very embarrassing for them. The worst part is the arguing with real victims, telling them they need to be nicer.
I believe the line for excusing their behavior is where they start hurting others. They do have the ability to choose to hurt or not. Otherwise they would not be so nice to you at the beginning of the relationship. I observed my ex-boyfriend's behavior enough to see that he schemed and planned his toxic behavior.
The damage these people do is inexcusable, it’s a reason not an excuse. Everyone is responsible for their behaviour.
I've had trauma badly from childhood and as young adult, and I don't treat people the way my ex narc was treating me, they are to blame for their behaviour, period!
Thank you, Dr. Ramani, for this very clear explanation - "understanble but inexcusable" . I believe this is key to how we can let people understand the way we feel about harmful and abusive narcissistic behaviour to people around them/
Thank you! Exusing the narcs is ENABLING. They suffered in the past and their takeaway was to NEVER be a victim anymore = become an attacker. We, the agreeable folk, never gave up our truth, we weren't broken. We are stronger that them deep down, remember this.
The "narcissism advocacy community" part had me literally back up and rewatch that a few times-- did I hear that right?!?!?!? Is that actually a THING?!?!?!?! But then "ohhhhh..." I've seen it SO much, but putting it in those terms is like that shelf breaking 🤯
One of my biggest pet peeves with my siblings is when they excuse my parent's toxic behavior because the parent had a rough childhood. Trauma explains the behavior, but it doesn't cancel out accountability for one's own actions. And feeling empathy is a good thing, but not when you use it to give someone a free pass for their poor choices. So, yes it's okay to feel anger at a narcissist who has had their own trauma.
Realizing I've been held more responsible for the narcs childhood than they've held their parents responsible was eye opening for me. If giving my entire soul to fix their childhood could have healed them it would've worked by now. We are both adults and responsible for our own healing.
Ugh. My Narc mother blames everything on her childhood and everything else in her past. Two of her favorite lines are “Who has been through as much as me??”, and “She/He couldn’t live a day of my life!!”. She thinks she’s a heroine in her own life story. When I was a teenager and would fight with her when she would get on her high horse of martyrdom id point to the old couple down the street who owned and ran a newspaper/ candy store. They were Auschwitz survivors with the tattoos still on their arms. Both lost their entire families in the gas chambers. They were as nice as could be. Never complained and had two well adjusted kids. My mother would just scoff at me and say I was too young to understand or have the temerity to compare her suffering to theirs. Sigh.
Exactly. There is no breach to be made into their victim story. They will absurdly diminish your argument and ardently amplify their own.
If you still have the gall to push your position they can go ballistic, ridicule you, threaten physical abuse and even send their flying monkeys
after you filled with their fabricated, one eyed, version of events.
My mother told me "you were never as sexually assaulted as I was, get over it".
I am with you in spirit my friend ❤💫.
No I don't believe it. I remember a sibling since a baby, before the heavy sht took place. Always a dishonest, devious, envious and manipulating hypocrite with a masterfully angelic look. Nearly all of us have traumas, not all of us as spineless and shameless sadists
True. It’s a choice how we respond to trauma. Or, better said, how we treat people. How we choose to deal with our trauma. Etc.
And it's a marathon. Not a sprint.. @@lolabear6788
As an adult we have free will to be or not to be how we choose. A mature, caring person doesn’t seek to hurt others. Narcissists are immature and chose to remain that way.
There is a world of difference between saying that something *explains* abusive or inappropriate behavior, and saying it *excuses* said behavior.
We as empaths want to understand the why, naturally. But please understand also that you should never give someone a pass just because you understand the why.
Yup, explanation =/= justification and since most narcissists tend to engage in projection and blame-shifting and refuse any actual help, you can feel empathy towards them while disengaging from their toxic behaviour at the same time
But what's really suprising to me is the fact that so many self-proclaimed 'empaths' in this comment section and perpetuating misinformation about narcissists "being born and not made". Narcissists aren't villains from a Disney movie and I don't understand why so many people feel the need to deny their childhood traumas and completely dehumanize them..
They can be both abusers and survivors of abuse. Both can be true at the same time. Idk why so many people are struggling to comprehend it
That being said, not all survivors of abuse go on to become abusers themselves. In other news: grass is green
Disrespecting, demeaning, insulting and sneering at people is entertaining to them. Emotional abuse is not physically abusive at first, but it ends up that way. Those of us who are encouraged to stick it out in these relationships however they present, end up with illnesses while the narcissistic person is nourished by the suffering of their target.
We all carry some form of trauma with us but that doesn't mean we abuse others just because we have trauma. 1000%
They certainly know “how” to be nice, manipulative or not. So…they know something.
Thank you lots of appreciation, one thing I refuse to become is that what has caused harm to me. Id rather hurt, bleed and break the chain to create the change. Id never put my pain or childhood beaten on to another because its selfish and completely wrong and it holds no love. To hold love is strength, to hold hate is week. Its a choice. That has no measure of trauma. Another words trauma has nothing to do with how one makes there choice. I choice love. May love be with all today.
On and off I feel that I abandon him. He didn’t care about how I felt the million times he abused me and when he almost beat me to death. I am trying my best.
I've gotten angry about their behavior and their damaged attitude. I've gotten angry about them using their trauma as an excuse instead of actively working on changing their response to it. Of course I can be angry about it. My anger has to be managed. the problem with many narcissists is they don't manage theirs.
Therapists lately are pushing this. It's very invalidating!
I pity my narcissist. She'll never be content with what she has and at near 50 is still trying to play mind games. Unless, you're extremely gullible, you find out really fast it's all lies.
You can have understanding and compassion for someone abusive, in the sense that you can see WHY they are the way they are and feel sad for them, however, you have every right to be angry at them for the pain and trauma they caused YOU. Their pain and trauma does NOT justify hurting others and being abusive
There's a difference between explanations and excuses.
Mr. Rogers said, "Find the helpers." I cannot convey sufficiently in words my gratitude to and for Dr. Ramaini. Thank you, for seeing beyond the "conventional wisdoms" and the glad handling, read; gaslighting, afforded to narcissists and advocating instead for their targets. You are an invaluable source of information, empathy and compassion in its truest form. Thank you. My deepest gratitude.
Thank you for this topic Dr Ramani. It make furiously when people excuse bad behavior with the cliche “hurt people, hurt people.” Now I call BS on that. We’ve all been hurt and if we all used that as an excuse and struck out at others, we’d probably all be dead.
As a self aware diagnosed narcissist, I understand for my part anyway that childhood trauma made me into what I am, however that doesn't give me a free pass to destroy everyone.
Abusing another person is a choice. A choice there is absolutely not a single excuse for. I don t care about those poor narcissistic abusers trauma. F# that.
My goodness! Thank you again so much Dr Romani This video helped bring to the surface and open my eyes a little wider again as I was already aware. It is a very tough situation when it comes with a parent of narcissistic personality disorder. We were shaped by our experiences in the world in childhood. Supports we had or didn't have. I suffered for so many years, Thank you for your knowledge your expertise your kindness You're willing to sit and do these videos to help survivors. My words fall short as I say thank you. May God bless you
An identity is a crucial component to a personhood and they don’t have one. Nature abhors a vacuum so something else has taken residence in it’s absence. Science keeps conveniently glossing over this part. Their inner child can’t get rehabilitated/grow up because they’re afraid of it too. I was mad at the narcissist before I understood we were both playing a game of survival. Submission to the entity.
Abusing others is a choice regardless of trauma.
Agree, very difficult..I found if you call them out, with unacceptable behaviour, though understandable.. You are the one accused of being unempathetic.. You let them be and you're accused of being uncaring..Learnt the hard way.. You can't win. In the end you just have to do what's right for you.
Thank You for seeing us, Dr. Ramani 💐
Can I be mad at people who take their trauma, dump it onto me and many others tenfold and blame me for it? Absolutely.
But being mad costs my energy, so I prefer to simply acknowledge them for what they are: an empty shell with way too sharp edges.
So Dr R. I’ve been seeing a life coach to help me deal with emotional issues. After becoming acquainted with your RUclips videos in your education and narcissism and what it is. I’ve come to realize that my father was narcissistic, extreme, my sister, and my second husband of 20 years. When I speak about narcissist to my life coach, she says well you attract these people to you because you need to learn a lesson? In my head that doesn’t sound correct. No one had ever choose the manipulation, the abuse, the gaslighting the crazy making as a choice to learn a lesson. She says well you have narcissistic tendencies too, and you need to be forgiving of these people and you need to accept them because they’re traumatized also. So hearing your post today. It has really reached my heart and made me very confused. Do I draw these people to me? Do I make the act this way and it’s insane to say well you’re a narcissist too. And I have to forgive them and I have to just let it go. This is telling me that it’s my issue not theirs. I feel like come back with a narcissist.
Thank you! I really needed to hear this today. ❤
Yes! And vows that say in sickness & in health bc basically a mental health illness
Yes, they had bad stuff happen,but I worked thru my trauma incurred before and by my narc. They can put on their big boy pants and do the work too.
Narcissists still choose to not get help. I honestly hate when people make excuses for their behavior. Everyone can choose how they treat people and can choose to be a better person. Most narcissists just choose to continue in their abusive ways, no excuses for them,
A while back, Richard Grannon was citing research that NPD is genetic -- hard wired -- baked in. It's the difficult personality that is the determining factor.
Can you talk about early childhood trauma, this video and having adopted children with many placements, or adopted from foster care, disrupted but ways we can help them heal when it triggers our own history. So much is lacking in preparing to parent and fir adoption, RAD is not always understood and many parents desperately need concrete ways to navigate parenting, when generational trauma rears up, your support system thinks you are dysfunctional when you do things to support your child with an emotional age much younger than they are or disorders that are mostly aimed at mom when at home. Your videos are so insightful. I am hesitant to say publicly to protect our kids and so many struggle alone afraid to reach out.
Wow, just the topic that has been on my mind lately! I think I know what wisdom, from your experience, you may share, but I am typing this early in this video, but so far you are saying what I thought you might. .. Been a RUclips appreciator a while now, Dr. R.
Yes this happened when I couldn't help but shame my narcissistic mother in my wedding speech and she said nothing and kept herself together until the next morning when she seemed to have a raging fit in front of everyone, a real spectacle of narcissistic rage and shame.
But she had no shame to jump into my wedding ceremony and interrupt it while also making a scene for attention.
So they do know what they're doing and they usually don't care.
From my own experience from my narcissistic mother and her family, i remember they when the being cruel to me they would follow it by acting so innocent. If they had any illness, it was a forever free from accountability pass.You need to not ever take a stand because of heart ect If you sick, (nausea. pain) it was you are detroying our pleasure.
Exactly, this is why I can no longer associate with my father and mother. They will not recognize any faults of their own that shaped my behavior. I sucked as a mother , as a person because of their narcissistic dominance of me always causing them problems
Excusing someone's bad behavior because of their trauma is like allowing a soldier returning from war with PTSD to go around shooting people. No
Thank you ❤ the "stop cluster B shaming" narcissist apologists make so many online support groups unsafe spaces.
I think me and my partner maybe both and are mirrors to one another as we switch back and forth. I don’t think one of us is immutable while the other is not in this case.I hope healing is possible for both of us even though it feels improbable at times.
Thank you so much for all of your videos. You have helped me to put so many things in the right perspective. You continue to change so many of our lives for the better. I can't thank you enough for your insight and compassion. May you be blessed and also find healing. ❤
Yes, I said this. But it's STILL so hard to deal with the narc!
Really good points. It was helpful to me. NEX wrote an article about his chilldhood trauma and gave it to everyone that came into our lives especially the women. Excuse booklet.
Please consider that prenatal trauma also effects personality. Son with fetal alcohol syndrome has BPD. Adopted at birth and many other issues of brain damage but not abusive childhood. Heritability could be a factor and majority of people with BPD have substance abuse issues. Please don't rule out brain damage as a factor in personality traits. If your hippocampus is damaged inutero you're going to function differently.
Valuable, at least for me. 🙏
You are allowed to be mad because they made you angry.
You can choose to let that anger fuel your grey rock or fuel your no contact but try not to let them know they made you mad
I thank you Dr. Ramani ❤. Power Persevering in Prayers Psalms 1-150❤️🌹😇👑
🙏🌻🧡🍀thank you so very much for sharing again
Nice job Dr. Ramani!! Again, just, thank you
It's hard being mad at my siblings after I learned the biggest secret they were made to keep. My dad died at the hands of our stepbrother. They protected him from facing accountability and not go to jail for his behavior. He spent 3 days in jail after he murdered our father on cold blood. Had he been jailed, my father possibly could have lived past aged 54..
Thank you 🙏 this hits a lot of good things today.
I was just asked this last night! Thank you ❤
saying that something made someone a certain way is a cop out.
For example, people can blame others for alcoholism, but you choose to take it up.
Blaming bad behavior on something else is a cop out. Plenty of crooks use it to get out of sticky situations
My Dad's go-to vis-a-vis Mom was always, "But she can't help it!" I finally blurted, "Bullshit. In the final analysis, we're all responsible for our own behavior." But that response begs the age-old legal question: How mentally ill does one have to be to be absolved of their detrimental actions?
So well put!❤
I believe some are born narcissists and some turn into one from bad parenting. That's why mental screenings should be mandatory before becoming parents, to break the cycle.
It is not a question of belief, it is about science. Narcissists are made, not born.
They LOVE being excused, regardless of the reason. They consider "forgiveness" to not only be their right, it is permission to continue being and doing whatever they want.
Children are not responsible for trauma experienced. However, every adult, narc or not, is responsible for their actions and what they do with that trauma. Whether we heal, stay wounded, or become a perpetrator themselves; that is our choice.
I am choosing to heal. I do not want my trauma to even inadvertently negatively affect those around me, especially my children.
It’s not common in my threads. I saw it once from a guy that admired to being one. The master of controlling their space.
Absolutely true. Just cause I was dealing with trauma due to loss doesnt make me a Narcissist in which my childrens father was diagnosed a Narcissist. Now we are going through trauma and a nightmare. The daughter here where im at lost her daughter who died at daycare. The grandchild i babysat one day a week. One week ago while i grieve alone as my ex husband and other chikdren came here from Alaska and have been with her. Last night I lost me loveable siberian husky beautiful dog thats been with me since my mom died. To Alaska and back here and in my car with me while i work. I had to hold him, put him down and get him cremated and feel a great loss. All in one week. There are strangers that cry over it and amazed im at work. A job tgat wages doesnt qualify me for housing and we only get three days of bereavement. I have the right as her grandmother to grieve and to geieve the loss of my wonderful companion dog. Im alone and i grieve alone after a great nightmare. After i being there through it all.
Dr Ramani your videos has helped me so much through my healing process your support has been amazing thankyou. ❤
So trauma does not make you a Narcissist. My goodness has always been real and my heart is huge. Anyone who has loved a dog for example as i have so greatly is a good person with love to give. Im sick of everything their father does and has been diagnosed with shifts the blame and tx towards me. Two parents can be entirely different. Me who got the "A" in child development and completely empathetic. Him disgnosed a Narcissist and highly abusive and destructive towards me. Ive said so many things in comments telling my story in parts. The mud roles down to me everytime.
My family is purely cruel. And medically abuses me.
I have a narcissistic parent. They always told me about their sad childhood experience. They always told me "You should understand us." Understanding is a curse in my childhood. When I was a child, I was always wondering why me. Why should I always be required to understand others and why no one understand me.
Now, I know it is just a narcissist's excuse. Just excuses. Noting more.
I have a different response to narcissists now.
I understand your behavior. However, it doesn't mean I will or should forgive you.
That's it.
I don't forgive you. I choose not to forgive you. Whether you deserve it or not. I don't forgive you.
Unless they’re a narcissist, who’s greatly affected my life, from their past, I am often not that mad at them, because I see the red flags and patterns and are disconnecting with them, before a relationship even gets going. Dealing with narcissists sometimes has lot to do with mitigation and elimination.
my mom is 64 and I am 40. my father ended his life 12 years ago and afterwards I suffered a massive mental breakdown as I also ended an engagement. to I grew up as the family scapegoat and my father and sister lived to make themselves look good to my mom at my expense. our whole family was a lie and I was the only one who admitted it. she is an alcoholic with bpd and npd ironic she is a phd in psychology so good luck finding anyone to convince her she is ever wrong. I have no kids and neither does my sister my aunt has 10 grandkids and 15 great grandkids.
So grateful for you Dr Ramani, you’re amazing and changing lives ❤❤
I think you're wonderful I have been with a narcissist it's been hell I knew him since I was 14 great funny smart you make me feel sane thank you at 55 now living with ms I see all devastating now I have rage and I want to leave so badly I feel like I now I could have left anytime hopefully I have a update thank you you have no idea you're work is so important God bless ❤
Someone has said it to me recently. I think they don't want to recognise that the narc person is narcissistic.
Not mad, but it’s how I learned to forgive. Because they know not what they do.
I can forgive them,m for the actions caused by their trauma. And then I can walk away.
I think you can feel any way you want about it. That’s what everyone has their own feelings.
Powerful Message ❤
Beautiful 🎉