As a fan of New Zealand’s many maritime successes during my lifetime, I do not see the difference between the San Diego yacht clubs decision to sail a catamaran and Michael Fay’s deliberate attempt to out-fund the San Diego yacht club by going to America to demand a challenge with the boat design already completed and only 10 months to construct, launch and train on the new vessel. This not only placed the defender in a desperate position but also denied any other challenger the opportunity such as has been given at almost every other modern America’s Cup. How was this any less of a ‘mismatch’ than sailing a different class of boat? I’m less concerned with how unsportsmanlike Dennis Conner was than I am about how our nation was seen to be ‘poor sports’ having lost to him in 1987. As a result of this complete farce by BOTH parties, the America’s Cup itself was brought into disrepute and took many years to recover its former glory. That said, thank you for uploading this precious piece of history so we may all learn.
Hear, hear. Quite right the kiwi challenge thought they had been smart and were proved not to have thought it through. Don't get me wrong it was not a good cup. I remember at the time a friend commenting with worst place the cup go was New Zealand as who would put the money up to challenge. Long gone are the days of a defender series and challenger series. Time moves on nothing stats the same.
Fay would have a LOT more sympathy from me if he would have compromised on the date -- say at least '89 -- but instead, he pretty much demonstrated that he was trying to steal the cup by taking advantage of the wording of the Deed. Conner defended by doing the same. So, yeah, it was a completely different kind of challenge and defense -- so what, it was still a heck of a lot of fun to watch how spoiled rich boys spend their money.
In chess if you make a illegal move and press the timer and or opponent plays and press his timer you are permitted to call his move as illegal and the adjudicator will award you the point this common across a lot of sports or something similar. What saying is America should have forfeited the cup and call them out for being shit and maybe done a sneaky re challenge them with there original 10 month deadline
I remember sailing back from Gt. Barrier on my 42 footer doing 10 kts thinking wow what a day when from astern came this massive sailing yacht passing us like we were standing still with a weird noise like wind in the trees and a line of guys giving me a wave as she creamed past , never forget that moment . Amazing documentary thank you .
Thank you for posting this interesting film. Despite what he said at 13:10, Michael Fay clearly never intended for this to be a "fair and even match". His comment at 4:30 - "How do you get that cup?!" - says it all. He was a rich guy who wanted something, wanted it now, and was willing to go to any length to get it.
@@frankrusselldesign7563 Exactly, I think it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the Dead of Gift, he studied it realizing it was a set of instructions on how to challenge for the cup, not realizing the lack of rules around the challenge itself. Sportsmanship was never going to come into it. The America's Cups entire existence was born out of spite.
Michael Fay needed to sue his attorneys for drafting a challenge that did not specify a mono hull. And yes, he clearly intended to pose a challenge in which he had a decisive advantage in tech and development, never expecting someone to interpret the guidelines of the challenge in such a completely different manner. I applaud the San Diego Yacht Club for their creativity, thereby showing the world the complete farce of this sore loser challenge.
Sailed on the big NZ boat in the Waitemata Harbour, even got the opportunity to go inside the boat and be a grinder for a small time. Will never forget that opportunity.
If my history is correct, this challenge came about because the SDYC still hadn't nominated a date for the next Americas Cup and it was going to look like being raced in 12M boats in SD's light winds that would have been worse than watching paint dry. This challenge I do not view as an embarrassment at all. Well within the deed of gift. What it did prompt was the design for a new class of boat that we saw in 1992. I neither see KZ1 or NZL20 as being embarrassing, entirely necessary learning experience and pushing the limits of kiwi ingenuity. I loved seeing KZ1 in the Rangitoto Channel each day, a fabulous design pushing the limit of monohull technology of the day, and subsequently broke many monohull speed records if not all. NZL20 promoted out of the box thinking with a twin keel. For the doubters of Bruce Farr designs; Steinlager 2 was an absolute triumph. NZ Yachting is in a good place today because of these lessons. Thank you for posting this. Brings back many memories.
true to a point it was always 4 years apart and Fay was just wanting to try and circumvent everything with a pre mature challenge. He also wanted to catch SDYC off guard and make them spend millions building a big boat. Fay won the challenge part in court, lost the boat design argument, hence the cat came about.
America's cup only became known to me because of the sail designer of the Stars and Stripes who is an aviation guru named Burt Rutan. All I knew the cat sailed circles around the New Zeeland. Interesting to learn all the unsportsmanlike behavior that happened behind the scenes on both sides.
What a treat. Thank you so much for posting this. I was 7 when this all happened, and I remember it clearly. Shortly after, I began learning how to sail.
I grew up sailing, racing lighting class boats in regattas in the Midwest. and we had a Hobie 14,16. venture 15 sunfish and a few others over the years. Dad would always take a boat to the beach every summer, sometimes sell it wile he was there. We watched all this stuff on tv growing up! People don't realize how exciting sailing can be,even on a small boat!
I and my sailing friends have always called this the lawyer's America's Cup. It had almost nothing to do about sailing. The best thing out of it was that the America's Cup deed/challenge process became more codified.
Well, both boats were amazingly innovative and influential, so I completely disagree with "nothing to do about sailing." And whatever the reason, that race was the first and LAST America's Cup that was of any interest at all to the general public -- all in all, it was immensely entertaining to a group far larger than your sailing friends.
Fay thought he was being so clever by delivering a hostile challenge that was intended to catch the defender unprepared with no time to counter the big boat. They lost any claim to expect sportsmanship from the defender at that point. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Feel for the crew - Though I guess the Kiwis didn't have to say "No" to too many applicants! But it was poor form to try to initiate a challenge when you have construction underway of a boat that you know the defender wont be able to replicate and still claim it a fair challenge. If they really wanted to see 2 x 90 footers race then they went about it the wrong way. Much as I feel for the Kiwis - this was a well deserved slap in the face.
@@gold6603 Spoken like a true Kiwi. Somehow I don't think that Matt is "worried" about the speed of the "Americans", led by an Aussie, using US dollars, back in 2017. The "Americans" had a dog, the Kiwis had a fast boat, and despite Burling's best efforts to absolutely shit the bed during the LV semi and destroy both the NZ boat and program, they won. 2021 saw Ol' Deano(a kiwi) choke, yet again and make a completely unnecessary left turn at the top of the course while leading handsomely, and in the process he decimated the NYYC's boat and its chances. Perhaps he's currently on Fay's payroll? We'll likely never know.... Fay should've known better in '88, or '87 when he actually submitted his challenge. For such a smart guy, he sure was stupid in the way he went about the challenge. His lawyers should've been disbarred for legal malpractice as well. The only winners in the "Coma off Point Loma" were the producer of this documentary- great work and very entertaining to watch, and also all the lawyers involved, who were paid handsomely for their services before, during and after the racing and appeals. I bet they all walked away counting their sizable sums, not giving a sh!t what happened afterward and never looking back. Fay, Conner, et al equally acted poorly during this AC cycle and it was embarrassing for all of us to watch(kinda like AC 33 in 2010). Neither Fay nor Big Bad Dennis should've won. Thanks to Adam May for posting this vid.
@@unco12345678910 No cheating Dennis Conner and the Americans followed the Deed of Gift to the letter of the law. It was Fay who decided to forgo the normal 12 Meter design and shock propose a radically different challenge and Dennis Conner and the Americans abliged with a far superior multi hulled boat that still followed the rules under the deed. Fay tried to punk San Diego yacht club with the challenge and got punked himself. No sympathy for Fay.
As a kiwi I can't stand people that get pissy about what Dennis did. KZ1 was designed and built to pull a quick one on the Americans. It shouldn't be a surprise that they stood up to it and came up with a better solution.
@@tullochgorum6323 TNZ refused to give them enough time to build a world beating monohull, I'm not surprised an average multihull kicked the crap out of a world beating monohull so without time to do a good job....
Great illustrative case of the dynamics of being a disruptor, even when the concept of “disruptive innovation” wouldn’t be coined for another decade (1990’s). Fay decided he didn’t want to try to win the cup via the status quo, instead (innovatively) turning it on its head, clearly believing he had circumstances insurmountably stacked in his favor. The problem being when you are actively disrupting, change becomes turbulent, and what you thought at the outset was at the leading edge of innovation, can instead be left swirling in a historical eddy. Fay lost his disruptive quest for the cup, badly, but the disruption he caused has remained, evident in every contest since 1988, with results that couldn’t have been imagined 30 years ago.
Sorry Kiwis, you let the genie out of the bottle by going away from the 12 metre rules. You chose the boat you wanted to race. It's only fair that the USA can race the kind of boat they choose. Michael Fay was aiming for a mismatch and he got one - just not the way he was hoping.
pandoras box was opened, winged keels, catamarans, foiling cats, foiling mono hulls. whats next? what ever it is it would suck if it ened up on keeled slow pokes.
Wing keels predate this, they were used on last few 12meter class racing. And yes, it would suck if it stayed on the old rules but this stunt had nothing to do with it.
It seems there is a bias of this program. New Zealand broke the long held tradition of 4 year races, knowing the cup holder could not have a boat race ready in eleven months. Obviously this unsportsman like conduct backfired on him. He tried to win through legal trickery and cried fowl when he failed :(
@@dylanslaney the deed of gift doesn't say you "can" do it and it doesn't say you "can't". Also NZ lost on the water 2-0 and 2-1 in the courts. www.americascup.com/en/history They could have waited, but acted like jerks and looked like fools.
@@dylanslaney But their challenge only specified 90 M waterline and single mast. It did not specify how many hulls that waterline was on. Michael Fay needs to sue his attorneys for drafting a challenge full of loopholes.
If anyone wants to read the court ruling its very interesting on the deed of gift. NZ won part of the ruling but lost overall when the court said the U.S could basically race any boat it selected (provided it conformed to the deed) Basically the court said NZ you already built your boat, U.S you can build yours, go race.
A Rich man's ego. That all this was. These sort of challenges would have wrecked the Americas cup. Michael Fey got rich through buying cheap NZ owned assets. He knew the right people,in power. Just a typical user. Lets make him a Sir. His sneaky challenge got what it deserved. Well done Dennis. And I am a kiwi.
Fay wanted to shake things up by telling the defender when to race and that it would build a much bigger boat. San Diego’s response with the cat was reasonable in my opinion. The problem with Fay was that he had already committed to his big expensive toy.
Fay wanted to pull a fast one. He had already built his big boat before he submitted the challenge. He was trying to gain an advantage. Court was actually right, told them go built a boat and race. Problem was Fay already submitted his boat. He didn't have the time to change.
I believe the leader of the New Zealand campaign turns out to look like the poor sportsmen. The short notice challenge, in which it would take much longer for a competitor to design and build a defender than the allotted time, was the first show of poor sportsmanship. The New Zealand team used a rule loophole to try to gain a insurmountable advantage and win the cup by default. The New Zealand campaign then yelled foul when us Yanks used another loophole to build a faster boat in response. It was a good documentary except it was all slanted from a New Zealand prospective. I feel the documentary made the New Zealand leadership look like poor Sportsman all the way from the divisive challenge to their defeat. It is a shame as it reflects badly on New Zealand and I really like New Zealand and New Zealanders. Thanks for posting this. Anyone have a documentary on the BOR90?
Thanks for posting that. I can see it both ways. The Kiwi's challenged the Americans, gave them only 10 months to respond, and then set forth and built the fastest boat they could within what they felt were the constraints of the race. Obviously this would put the Americans on the back foot. So they did the same thing. Built the fastest boat they could within what they felt were the constraints of the race. And like the line in the documentary said. The challenger doesn't get to dictate the size and type of boat for the race. The defending champions do.
Why because he played by the rule ? NZ were the ones that didn't read the dead of gift at the time and came up with the absurd challenge in the first place. Challenger does not get to select the type of boat, nor do they get to build one first and try and spring a surprise challenge. Maybe go read the court ruling and do a little research. Blame on both sides for that one.
These are the people the ruined the Americas Cup. They think their challenge for the cup was righteous, but the irony is that using the nuclear option of the courts (usually an American bastion) defiled a beautiful gentleman’s agreement that had been in place for decades. The Kiwi’s were impatient, but they got outsmarted, and in the end everyone lost, to this day the prestige of the race has never returned. The race used to be of pride and honour of your club and County. Now it’s a boring sport, devoid of characters and full of bounty hunter sailors sailing for the country that will pay them the most. All they had to do was wait.
I remember how apoplectic the staunch traditionalists in our yacht club were over the gall they had to bring a catamaran to what had always been a monohull race up to that point. I don't remember the details, but I do remember several shouting matches as a result. Damn, the 80's were a good time.
Don’t agree, Micheal Fay didn’t win on that day but thanks to him he lit a fire under the ass of the unless closed shop the Americans control of the America’s cup, I might add if it weren’t for giants like Fay Richwhite the America’s cup would be still sailed in boring 12 meter class shit boxes! Shame that Chris Dixon and the Kiwi team didn’t burn Connors first time up. Better luck next time!
Lawyer takes years to design and build the largest, most expensive boat possible with a crew 40 then turns around and insists he be raced in 10 months. He did everything humanly possible to create the largest mismatch possible. Dude deserved a beat down, and that's what he got. I can beat most people in a race if I get to start out at a dead sprint while they are in the blocks. "He who seeks equity must do equity." "Equity does not relieve a person of the consequences of his or her own carelessness." "Equity regards substance rather than form." "Equity abhors a forfeiture."
A classic example of how stupidity and bad or non existent negotiating skills led to huge amounts of time, money and effort being flushed down the toilet. Fay got what he deserved in the end, he got his ass kicked.
As a long term San Diegian, and the fact that I was in San Diego during the race I think the race was as fair as the challenge. If Fay had waited for the next scheduled cup race and they had agreed on the boat design ahead of time it would have been a fair race.
Fay was just as much a A hole as Conner was at the time. Which is why it ended up in court. Fay wanted to try and catch everyone off guard and had already built his boat. He wanted to gain an advantage, so Conner was not entirely at fault with this mess. Court basically told everyone build a boat and go race. Hence the Cat v. Big Boat.
Well the US team gave as good as they got. The NZ team were the ones who went out of their way to game the system and were caught out badly. Best to do things in cooperation rather than confrontation
Every time I watch that I remember why I don’t think much of Mr. Connors. The simple fact is the AC is brutal and a winning teams must take every advantage they can, but that doesn’t bring out the best in a lot of people.
Agree. The cup while having some interesting boat concepts blast along the water, has lost its lustre. No tactics, no duels, no interest. Just a windward return drag race. One error and you’re gone. Boring TV! Why bother!
The Americas Cup has always been a boat design race. America had simple been better at racing boat design than anybody else. Then the Kiwis came along, then the big boat. The American response was to build, once again, a better boat. The Kiwis bluffed with an inferior hand😂
Fay was an idiot for trying to win the AC in the courts with lawyer's tricks, even though the legal chicanery is in the grand tradition of the AC, and did nothing for his already dubious reputation; and yet NZ has twice beaten the defenders on their own grounds without resorting to legal loopholes. As for "things that don't even look like yachts" you obviously been asleep for the last decade or two, as even the little dinghies the kids sail now ride around on foils. But I think it's time it stopped being a game for rich boys and their toys.
Interesting perspective.. the Kiwi belief is they have the right to right the rules and put the defender in a spot,,, far from what they are doing this year.... the question is.. did they start a change in the process that has lead to where we are today... to flying instead of sailing... to more electronics than sailing.... but that where we are today... and the Kiwis showed their true color this year, by setting the rules in a way that gives them an advantage
First time I hear of all this. Can't disagree more with the new zealand case. Michael Fay should have thought more of sportmanship when he refused to challange the americans on the 12 meter class like everyone else. Btw this is the greatest NO YOU ever from San Diego.
The whole things was kind of a joke. NZ comes with this new big yacht to try and steal the cup because they figure Team USA would not be able to build anything quick enough to truly compete. Then the US brings a cat to the fight and then rich Kiwi complains its not fair, really? A great thing that came from this show was the new wing sail that has now been used in the AC twice and has moved on to SailGP racing. Quite an innovation at the time even though the Little AC was using such wings for some time, that is where the wing sail development came from. To bad Dennis could not totally let cat fly during the races, but did not want to make look to unfair.
That's not true @@windwardhaven and it misses the point of my comparison. Pelosi and Graham are both double talking politicians, but Graham's integrity deficit is off the charts. I assumed this was obvious.
@@ThomasDwyer187 Well, you brought politics into this, Thomas, but I sailed with DC back in the 80s and I can tell you that he really did act like Pelosi. I could name quite a few other politicians that surpass DC & Graham - but I think Pelosi is completely integrity-deficient. Guess we don't see eye-to-eye politically....
The lowest and saddest display of sportsmanship in the history of the AC, which even disappointed Sail America's own fans, was needed to open the eyes to the ancient rules and the gaps in them. At least the disruption made for a fresh breeze
They really won. There was no other mono hull that turned up. Dennis Connor is a very bad sportsman . To say the he sailed a cat and someone a dog was very very uncouth. Disgraceful and shame on this now old man.
The challenge only specified a length of waterline and single mast. It did not specify a number of hulls. Fay should have sued his attorneys over leaving such a gaping loophole. Fay was acting as a spoiled brat by forcing a challenge he had a design head start on and massive advance funding. San Diego Yacht Club Responded in kind.
Yes they took the cup through the court but lost it at the first race to an evenly matched crew and boat. Stars and Stripes kicked ass 4 races to 0. That was a match.
This could have been epic racing. 12 meters disappointed me with their highly restrictive rules. This was a breath of fresh air, until the Yanks fielded a cat.
Fey: We demand you follow the letter of the law wrt the Deed of Gift. SDYC: We feel you should honor the spirit of tradition but very reluctantly have to accept your challenge. Fey: We demand you follow the spirit of tradition and sail a monohull SDYC: We thought you wanted “letter of the law” so FU
@vDosc UV7 not sure how bold it was. He clearly aimed at having an unfair advantage. But in doing so he opened the door to more freedom of design and the Americans walked right through.
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As a fan of New Zealand’s many maritime successes during my lifetime, I do not see the difference between the San Diego yacht clubs decision to sail a catamaran and Michael Fay’s deliberate attempt to out-fund the San Diego yacht club by going to America to demand a challenge with the boat design already completed and only 10 months to construct, launch and train on the new vessel. This not only placed the defender in a desperate position but also denied any other challenger the opportunity such as has been given at almost every other modern America’s Cup. How was this any less of a ‘mismatch’ than sailing a different class of boat? I’m less concerned with how unsportsmanlike Dennis Conner was than I am about how our nation was seen to be ‘poor sports’ having lost to him in 1987. As a result of this complete farce by BOTH parties, the America’s Cup itself was brought into disrepute and took many years to recover its former glory. That said, thank you for uploading this precious piece of history so we may all learn.
Hear, hear. Quite right the kiwi challenge thought they had been smart and were proved not to have thought it through. Don't get me wrong it was not a good cup.
I remember at the time a friend commenting with worst place the cup go was New Zealand as who would put the money up to challenge. Long gone are the days of a defender series and challenger series. Time moves on nothing stats the same.
It went to shit when everyone started trying to change the boats, it should have stayed as a 12m monohull single keel race.
Fay would have a LOT more sympathy from me if he would have compromised on the date -- say at least '89 -- but instead, he pretty much demonstrated that he was trying to steal the cup by taking advantage of the wording of the Deed. Conner defended by doing the same. So, yeah, it was a completely different kind of challenge and defense -- so what, it was still a heck of a lot of fun to watch how spoiled rich boys spend their money.
@@shiraz1736 While the current AC-75s are exciting to watch for what they are I've started watching more Lazer racing for the close racing.
In chess if you make a illegal move and press the timer and or opponent plays and press his timer you are permitted to call his move as illegal and the adjudicator will award you the point this common across a lot of sports or something similar. What saying is America should have forfeited the cup and call them out for being shit and maybe done a sneaky re challenge them with there original 10 month deadline
I remember sailing back from Gt. Barrier on my 42 footer doing 10 kts thinking wow what a day when from astern came this massive sailing yacht passing us like we were standing still with a weird noise like wind in the trees and a line of guys giving me a wave as she creamed past , never forget that moment . Amazing documentary thank you .
What a moment thanks for sharing
Thank you for posting this interesting film. Despite what he said at 13:10, Michael Fay clearly never intended for this to be a "fair and even match". His comment at 4:30 - "How do you get that cup?!" - says it all. He was a rich guy who wanted something, wanted it now, and was willing to go to any length to get it.
Yes, it was a disgrace all round.
But the Cup had become synonymous with scheming and gamesmanship long before that
Yes so whay didnt he build a giant catamaran? The deed of gift does not insist on monohulls.
@@frankrusselldesign7563 Exactly, I think it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the Dead of Gift, he studied it realizing it was a set of instructions on how to challenge for the cup, not realizing the lack of rules around the challenge itself. Sportsmanship was never going to come into it. The America's Cups entire existence was born out of spite.
Michael Fay needed to sue his attorneys for drafting a challenge that did not specify a mono hull.
And yes, he clearly intended to pose a challenge in which he had a decisive advantage in tech and development, never expecting someone to interpret the guidelines of the challenge in such a completely different manner. I applaud the San Diego Yacht Club for their creativity, thereby showing the world the complete farce of this sore loser challenge.
Everything about this is peak 80s. From the music and the hairstyles to the super short shorts.
Sailed on the big NZ boat in the Waitemata Harbour, even got the opportunity to go inside the boat and be a grinder for a small time. Will never forget that opportunity.
I worked on this Challenge... great memories. Thank you for uploading this.
If my history is correct, this challenge came about because the SDYC still hadn't nominated a date for the next Americas Cup and it was going to look like being raced in 12M boats in SD's light winds that would have been worse than watching paint dry. This challenge I do not view as an embarrassment at all. Well within the deed of gift. What it did prompt was the design for a new class of boat that we saw in 1992. I neither see KZ1 or NZL20 as being embarrassing, entirely necessary learning experience and pushing the limits of kiwi ingenuity. I loved seeing KZ1 in the Rangitoto Channel each day, a fabulous design pushing the limit of monohull technology of the day, and subsequently broke many monohull speed records if not all. NZL20 promoted out of the box thinking with a twin keel. For the doubters of Bruce Farr designs; Steinlager 2 was an absolute triumph. NZ Yachting is in a good place today because of these lessons. Thank you for posting this. Brings back many memories.
Wow I’m finding watching the so called America,s (corporate) cup right now like watching paint dry, Groundhog Day every race.
true to a point it was always 4 years apart and Fay was just wanting to try and circumvent everything with a pre mature challenge. He also wanted to catch SDYC off guard and make them spend millions building a big boat. Fay won the challenge part in court, lost the boat design argument, hence the cat came about.
The same Italian in the press conference then as there is now! Remarkable :-D
Thanks for posting. Well made program, and nice footage of New Zealand
America's cup only became known to me because of the sail designer of the Stars and Stripes who is an aviation guru named Burt Rutan. All I knew the cat sailed circles around the New Zeeland. Interesting to learn all the unsportsmanlike behavior that happened behind the scenes on both sides.
What a treat. Thank you so much for posting this. I was 7 when this all happened, and I remember it clearly. Shortly after, I began learning how to sail.
I grew up sailing, racing lighting class boats in regattas in the Midwest. and we had a Hobie 14,16. venture 15 sunfish and a few others over the years. Dad would always take a boat to the beach every summer, sometimes sell it wile he was there. We watched all this stuff on tv growing up! People don't realize how exciting sailing can be,even on a small boat!
That NZ boat was sooo awesome. I was 12 when it launched and I fell in love with sailing forever.
I also learned there is no fair in the world.
Nice to listen once again to the great Bob Fisher... RIP
I and my sailing friends have always called this the lawyer's America's Cup. It had almost nothing to do about sailing. The best thing out of it was that the America's Cup deed/challenge process became more codified.
Well, both boats were amazingly innovative and influential, so I completely disagree with "nothing to do about sailing." And whatever the reason, that race was the first and LAST America's Cup that was of any interest at all to the general public -- all in all, it was immensely entertaining to a group far larger than your sailing friends.
Ehh, I raise you 2010 AC...
Thank you for posting this piece about the 1988 DOG match from the point of view of the challenger.
they deserved to have their arse handed to them.
Well we have the AC75 foiling monohulls now and what a beautiful thing they are. The foiling cats that came before are also gorgeous.
Wow thanks for posting this piece of history
Thanks so much for posting this. I remember the drama, but this really provides the details I had forgotten.
Wonderful film - looking forward to the 2023 season!
Thanks Adam, that certainly brought back a lot of memories - most of them good.
I’ll say Bob!!
29:49 That’s quite the pep talk: We’re going to lose 2 to 0 there’s no doubt about it. Let’s work hard night and day for the next 6 weeks!
I saw the KZ1 Yacht in Auckland last year. It's really impressive to see in person.
still racing?
@@clintmackinlay No, on display
28:10 Interesting to see the difference in shape of these "athletes" with their guts hanging out VS the current AC75 crews ... LOL.
Fay thought he was being so clever by delivering a hostile challenge that was intended to catch the defender unprepared with no time to counter the big boat. They lost any claim to expect sportsmanship from the defender at that point. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Agreed. (Admittedly, I'm biased. 1) I'm an American 2) I'm a Hobie Cat guy)
Is 10 months not enough time to build a competitor? If not, why is that the way the deed was written?
@@leotard2536 The deed was written in 1852. Definitely not informed by modern naval architecture.
@@ziggystardust4627 I think wooden boats take longer to build, no?
Feel for the crew - Though I guess the Kiwis didn't have to say "No" to too many applicants! But it was poor form to try to initiate a challenge when you have construction underway of a boat that you know the defender wont be able to replicate and still claim it a fair challenge. If they really wanted to see 2 x 90 footers race then they went about it the wrong way. Much as I feel for the Kiwis - this was a well deserved slap in the face.
Don't worry Matt. The Americans showed how fast they were in 2017 (after trying to give themselves the upper hand) and again in 2021 ;)
Typical americas always cheating
@@gold6603 Spoken like a true Kiwi. Somehow I don't think that Matt is "worried" about the speed of the "Americans", led by an Aussie, using US dollars, back in 2017. The "Americans" had a dog, the Kiwis had a fast boat, and despite Burling's best efforts to absolutely shit the bed during the LV semi and destroy both the NZ boat and program, they won.
2021 saw Ol' Deano(a kiwi) choke, yet again and make a completely unnecessary left turn at the top of the course while leading handsomely, and in the process he decimated the NYYC's boat and its chances. Perhaps he's currently on Fay's payroll? We'll likely never know....
Fay should've known better in '88, or '87 when he actually submitted his challenge. For such a smart guy, he sure was stupid in the way he went about the challenge. His lawyers should've been disbarred for legal malpractice as well.
The only winners in the "Coma off Point Loma" were the producer of this documentary- great work and very entertaining to watch, and also all the lawyers involved, who were paid handsomely for their services before, during and after the racing and appeals. I bet they all walked away counting their sizable sums, not giving a sh!t what happened afterward and never looking back. Fay, Conner, et al equally acted poorly during this AC cycle and it was embarrassing for all of us to watch(kinda like AC 33 in 2010). Neither Fay nor Big Bad Dennis should've won. Thanks to Adam May for posting this vid.
@@unco12345678910 No cheating Dennis Conner and the Americans followed the Deed of Gift to the letter of the law. It was Fay who decided to forgo the normal 12 Meter design and shock propose a radically different challenge and Dennis Conner and the Americans abliged with a far superior multi hulled boat that still followed the rules under the deed. Fay tried to punk San Diego yacht club with the challenge and got punked himself. No sympathy for Fay.
As a kiwi I can't stand people that get pissy about what Dennis did. KZ1 was designed and built to pull a quick one on the Americans. It shouldn't be a surprise that they stood up to it and came up with a better solution.
Don't agree - San Diego should have negotiated and come up with a compromise they could both live with. They wouldn't even talk. The judge agreed.
Turncoat
@@slooob23 LOL!
@@tullochgorum6323 TNZ refused to give them enough time to build a world beating monohull, I'm not surprised an average multihull kicked the crap out of a world beating monohull so without time to do a good job....
Yep
Fantastic, thanks. A fitting memorial to Bob Fisher.
I love the footage of all the larrikins at Marten Marine...damn that was a fun place to work.
the best vid I saw in youtube this year
Great documentary
Well put together!!! Bravo !!!
Great illustrative case of the dynamics of being a disruptor, even when the concept of “disruptive innovation” wouldn’t be coined for another decade (1990’s). Fay decided he didn’t want to try to win the cup via the status quo, instead (innovatively) turning it on its head, clearly believing he had circumstances insurmountably stacked in his favor. The problem being when you are actively disrupting, change becomes turbulent, and what you thought at the outset was at the leading edge of innovation, can instead be left swirling in a historical eddy. Fay lost his disruptive quest for the cup, badly, but the disruption he caused has remained, evident in every contest since 1988, with results that couldn’t have been imagined 30 years ago.
Sorry Kiwis, you let the genie out of the bottle by going away from the 12 metre rules. You chose the boat you wanted to race. It's only fair that the USA can race the kind of boat they choose.
Michael Fay was aiming for a mismatch and he got one - just not the way he was hoping.
Still did better than the Americans in the 2021 round robins.
Look at these full wire turns going along at the drums. Real power on these ropes
The Kiwi got what they deserved. Love the way the American responded to that kind of self-serving renegade challenge.
Guess wat America won't see the cup ever again
"It's not right that the America's Cup become a mismatch"
- Michael Fay lololol
pandoras box was opened, winged keels, catamarans, foiling cats, foiling mono hulls. whats next? what ever it is it would suck if it ened up on keeled slow pokes.
Wing keels predate this, they were used on last few 12meter class racing. And yes, it would suck if it stayed on the old rules but this stunt had nothing to do with it.
It seems there is a bias of this program. New Zealand broke the long held tradition of 4 year races, knowing the cup holder could not have a boat race ready in eleven months. Obviously this unsportsman like conduct backfired on him. He tried to win through legal trickery and cried fowl when he failed :(
tradition maybe, but if the deed said you can do it don't blame NZ. In the end NZ won, and certainly did not fail.
@@dylanslaney the deed of gift doesn't say you "can" do it and it doesn't say you "can't".
Also NZ lost on the water 2-0 and 2-1 in the courts. www.americascup.com/en/history
They could have waited, but acted like jerks and looked like fools.
@@dylanslaney But their challenge only specified 90 M waterline and single mast. It did not specify how many hulls that waterline was on.
Michael Fay needs to sue his attorneys for drafting a challenge full of loopholes.
If anyone wants to read the court ruling its very interesting on the deed of gift. NZ won part of the ruling but lost overall when the court said the U.S could basically race any boat it selected (provided it conformed to the deed) Basically the court said NZ you already built your boat, U.S you can build yours, go race.
In my lifetime no America’s cup has been won without the hands and hard-work of a kiwi in the team !
You must be a youngster. Of course, the Americans have gotten long of tooth. Paul Cayard I'm looking right at you.
And may David Barnes Rest In Peace. God bless him.
A great man and amazing father
A Rich man's ego. That all this was. These sort of challenges would have wrecked the Americas cup. Michael Fey got rich through buying cheap NZ owned assets. He knew the right people,in power. Just a typical user. Lets make him a Sir. His sneaky challenge got what it deserved. Well done Dennis. And I am a kiwi.
Anyone know how fast KZ-1 could go under the appropriate wind and seas?
Fay wanted to shake things up by telling the defender when to race and that it would build a much bigger boat. San Diego’s response with the cat was reasonable in my opinion. The problem with Fay was that he had already committed to his big expensive toy.
Fay wanted to pull a fast one. He had already built his big boat before he submitted the challenge. He was trying to gain an advantage. Court was actually right, told them go built a boat and race. Problem was Fay already submitted his boat. He didn't have the time to change.
44:22
We've all been there before
Is that boat still in downtown Auckland???
Sam Adams to the British crown: Americans can be very chicane.
I believe the leader of the New Zealand campaign turns out to look like the poor sportsmen. The short notice challenge, in which it would take much longer for a competitor to design and build a defender than the allotted time, was the first show of poor sportsmanship. The New Zealand team used a rule loophole to try to gain a insurmountable advantage and win the cup by default. The New Zealand campaign then yelled foul when us Yanks used another loophole to build a faster boat in response. It was a good documentary except it was all slanted from a New Zealand prospective. I feel the documentary made the New Zealand leadership look like poor Sportsman all the way from the divisive challenge to their defeat. It is a shame as it reflects badly on New Zealand and I really like New Zealand and New Zealanders. Thanks for posting this. Anyone have a documentary on the BOR90?
Thanks for posting that. I can see it both ways. The Kiwi's challenged the Americans, gave them only 10 months to respond, and then set forth and built the fastest boat they could within what they felt were the constraints of the race. Obviously this would put the Americans on the back foot. So they did the same thing. Built the fastest boat they could within what they felt were the constraints of the race.
And like the line in the documentary said. The challenger doesn't get to dictate the size and type of boat for the race. The defending champions do.
Team NZ celebrating that debacle with champagne I'm guessing the mood changed when the cameras got turned off.
Such pure sailing
Thanks for sharing mate!
Thank you for that
Dennis Connor, a man of such little class.
yeah, what a sore loser
Why because he played by the rule ? NZ were the ones that didn't read the dead of gift at the time and came up with the absurd challenge in the first place. Challenger does not get to select the type of boat, nor do they get to build one first and try and spring a surprise challenge. Maybe go read the court ruling and do a little research. Blame on both sides for that one.
These are the people the ruined the Americas Cup.
They think their challenge for the cup was righteous, but the irony is that using the nuclear option of the courts (usually an American bastion) defiled a beautiful gentleman’s agreement that had been in place for decades.
The Kiwi’s were impatient, but they got outsmarted, and in the end everyone lost, to this day the prestige of the race has never returned.
The race used to be of pride and honour of your club and County. Now it’s a boring sport, devoid of characters and full of bounty hunter sailors sailing for the country that will pay them the most.
All they had to do was wait.
I remember how apoplectic the staunch traditionalists in our yacht club were over the gall they had to bring a catamaran to what had always been a monohull race up to that point. I don't remember the details, but I do remember several shouting matches as a result. Damn, the 80's were a good time.
Cheeky Kiwis and cheekier Yanks
Has there ever been a bigger loser of a yacht ? Fay surely got what he deserved !
Don’t agree, Micheal Fay didn’t win on that day but thanks to him he lit a fire under the ass of the unless closed shop the Americans control of the America’s cup,
I might add if it weren’t for giants like Fay Richwhite the America’s cup would be still sailed in boring 12 meter class shit boxes!
Shame that Chris Dixon and the Kiwi team didn’t burn Connors first time up.
Better luck next time!
Pretty cocky with the challenger dictating how the race was going to run. You have to win first before you run the show. Great video.
Lawyer takes years to design and build the largest, most expensive boat possible with a crew 40 then turns around and insists he be raced in 10 months. He did everything humanly possible to create the largest mismatch possible.
Dude deserved a beat down, and that's what he got.
I can beat most people in a race if I get to start out at a dead sprint while they are in the blocks.
"He who seeks equity must do equity."
"Equity does not relieve a person of the consequences of his or her own carelessness."
"Equity regards substance rather than form."
"Equity abhors a forfeiture."
A classic example of how stupidity and bad or non existent negotiating skills led to huge amounts of time, money and effort being flushed down the toilet. Fay got what he deserved in the end, he got his ass kicked.
A bit like the Ukraine war then
I loved seeing the Kiwis getting their hats handed to them. Tried to take over the process and got denied.
Ah those were the days the cool thing that came out of it all was a much needed kick in the pants and reset for the competition .
Narrator looks a lot like the respected yachtsman and yachting journalist Robert (Bob) Fisher..
I thought I saw Robert Fisher in the credits.
As a long term San Diegian, and the fact that I was in San Diego during the race I think the race was as fair as the challenge. If Fay had waited for the next scheduled cup race and they had agreed on the boat design ahead of time it would have been a fair race.
Fay was just as much a A hole as Conner was at the time. Which is why it ended up in court. Fay wanted to try and catch everyone off guard and had already built his boat. He wanted to gain an advantage, so Conner was not entirely at fault with this mess. Court basically told everyone build a boat and go race. Hence the Cat v. Big Boat.
Well the US team gave as good as they got. The NZ team were the ones who went out of their way to game the system and were caught out badly. Best to do things in cooperation rather than confrontation
Kind of like 2017 when the Americans gave themselves an extra boat and an extra point above anyone else and still lost.
You step to the king thinking you can get design time advantage and think he isn't gonna hit you back? Ballsy
Every time I watch that I remember why I don’t think much of Mr. Connors. The simple fact is the AC is brutal and a winning teams must take every advantage they can, but that doesn’t bring out the best in a lot of people.
As a child of the 80's, the 1988 America's Cup was the defining moment for me when The America's Cup became "uncool".
Agree. The cup while having some interesting boat concepts blast along the water, has lost its lustre. No tactics, no duels, no interest. Just a windward return drag race. One error and you’re gone. Boring TV! Why bother!
Yup. That's the year I stopped following the AC.
@@SA-nv5tc changed your mind yet? This year's cup has been crazy good. Wind shifts, tactics, lead changes all right on the edge.
The Americas Cup has always been a boat design race. America had simple been better at racing boat design than anybody else. Then the Kiwis came along, then the big boat. The American response was to build, once again, a better boat. The Kiwis bluffed with an inferior hand😂
Hoisted by his own petard. Best part was all the cash Fey thru into the sea.
The end of American Sailing.
Don Quixote.
What a huge load of Kiwi whininess. NZ never intended tor an even match.
My sentiments exactly. Also I'm biased because I'm a Hobie Cat guy.
And thanks to NZ with their KZ1 the Americas Cup has turned into a joke with things that don't even look like a yachts
Fay was an idiot for trying to win the AC in the courts with lawyer's tricks, even though the legal chicanery is in the grand tradition of the AC, and did nothing for his already dubious reputation; and yet NZ has twice beaten the defenders on their own grounds without resorting to legal loopholes. As for "things that don't even look like yachts" you obviously been asleep for the last decade or two, as even the little dinghies the kids sail now ride around on foils.
But I think it's time it stopped being a game for rich boys and their toys.
What are you talking about? The modern yachts are a direct result of America via Larry Ellison winning a deed of gift match in a bloody trimaran!!!
Super documentary about spormanshit!
I was so disappointed by Dennis Conner and the SDYC. Not found of the NYSC ruling either.
Lets just go back to J boats.
Fay got what was coming to him.
NZ should have built a foiling monohull. 😂
The KIWI's asked for it and that's what they got!
Interesting perspective.. the Kiwi belief is they have the right to right the rules and put the defender in a spot,,, far from what they are doing this year.... the question is.. did they start a change in the process that has lead to where we are today... to flying instead of sailing... to more electronics than sailing.... but that where we are today... and the Kiwis showed their true color this year, by setting the rules in a way that gives them an advantage
You spelled Larry Ellison wrong
and yet...look at what boat design NZL is competing with now...
First time I hear of all this. Can't disagree more with the new zealand case. Michael Fay should have thought more of sportmanship when he refused to challange the americans on the 12 meter class like everyone else. Btw this is the greatest NO YOU ever from San Diego.
25:15 Attack of the Titans soundtrack :D
The whole things was kind of a joke. NZ comes with this new big yacht to try and steal the cup because they figure Team USA would not be able to build anything quick enough to truly compete. Then the US brings a cat to the fight and then rich Kiwi complains its not fair, really? A great thing that came from this show was the new wing sail that has now been used in the AC twice and has moved on to SailGP racing. Quite an innovation at the time even though the Little AC was using such wings for some time, that is where the wing sail development came from. To bad Dennis could not totally let cat fly during the races, but did not want to make look to unfair.
Dennis Connor; first man in 132 years to lose the Cup.
Connor, the perennial asshole of America's Cup racing.
Dennis Conner reminds me of Lindsey Graham.
You're right. 😂
Yes, D Conner is an A hole
He may look like Sen Graham, but he talks and acts like Nancy Pelosi.
That's not true @@windwardhaven and it misses the point of my comparison. Pelosi and Graham are both double talking politicians, but Graham's integrity deficit is off the charts. I assumed this was obvious.
@@ThomasDwyer187 Well, you brought politics into this, Thomas, but I sailed with DC back in the 80s and I can tell you that he really did act like Pelosi. I could name quite a few other politicians that surpass DC & Graham - but I think Pelosi is completely integrity-deficient. Guess we don't see eye-to-eye politically....
I'm not sorry for saying this, the cup challenge process needed a kick in the pants.
Bit of a low blow
Why did NZ take such a slow boat to the Americas Cup? I didn't have time to watch the whole thing
Sour grapes
The lowest and saddest display of sportsmanship in the history of the AC, which even disappointed Sail America's own fans, was needed to open the eyes to the ancient rules and the gaps in them. At least the disruption made for a fresh breeze
Boat. Vs boat. I think there was a clear winner 🏆 MERICA
That's like saying a stand up paddle board is better than a canoe.
They really won. There was no other mono hull that turned up. Dennis Connor is a very bad sportsman . To say the he sailed a cat and someone a dog was very very uncouth. Disgraceful and shame on this now old man.
The challenge only specified a length of waterline and single mast. It did not specify a number of hulls.
Fay should have sued his attorneys over leaving such a gaping loophole.
Fay was acting as a spoiled brat by forcing a challenge he had a design head start on and massive advance funding. San Diego Yacht Club Responded in kind.
when newly minted merchant bankers think they are old sea salts,
"We're going to build the uglyiest AC yacht ever built......."
yeh they cheated it was the only way they could win , then after this they turned into a 3 ring circus and the Americas Cup was never the same.
What is it with AC DoG races that seem to leave a bad taste in ur mouth..?
Yes they took the cup through the court but lost it at the first race to an evenly matched crew and boat. Stars and Stripes kicked ass 4 races to 0. That was a match.
Did you even watch the video?
This could have been epic racing. 12 meters disappointed me with their highly restrictive rules. This was a breath of fresh air, until the Yanks fielded a cat.
Fey: We demand you follow the letter of the law wrt the Deed of Gift.
SDYC: We feel you should honor the spirit of tradition but very reluctantly have to accept your challenge.
Fey: We demand you follow the spirit of tradition and sail a monohull
SDYC: We thought you wanted “letter of the law” so FU
@vDosc UV7 not sure how bold it was. He clearly aimed at having an unfair advantage. But in doing so he opened the door to more freedom of design and the Americans walked right through.
Faye is a big whiner.