Apologies again for the loud background music in this video. I recorded this and the last video consecutively and didn't recognize the volume was a bit too high. Won't be in the next videos! 😅
Idk if your software has it but a parametric equalizer would help that. Find your voices spectrum and drop that spectrum in the music. It won't clash at all even if you have it loud.
My actual complaint is just how expensive it is. I just bought a dinosaur deck to try and finally own a physical deck and the only staples I bought were 2 ash blossom, one lightning storm, and a borreload savage dragon and the price of my deck went up an extra $150. It’s absurd
I know that initial investment sucks but once you buy the staples you need you can transfer them to other decks. I have like 5 decks and when I need to I just move the staples such as Ash Blossom around
If ur not planning on ycs or nationals, then u coukd have used that 150 for so much more, u dont need to be as expensive for locals. U should have saved ur cash and bought 3 raigeki or a harpies instead of the lightning storm
I'm just over generically strong boss monsters in extra decks. It makes every deck have very similar end boards. Let's make some actual bosses with specific monsters to give decks an identity. Hate Despia all you want but imo it's awesome that its boss, mirrorjade, has to be played with Albaz. More boss monsters with specific materials, this whole synchro turbo of Barrone, chaos ruler, halq, formula Synchron, and whatever else generic level 11 or 12 that just shuts the turn down. It really sucks to see decks like punk have an end board of no punks but just generically strong extra deck stuff
Yeah 100% agree, I hate seeing Baronne and DPE being used on master duel most of the time and this is in lower gold, I wonder how bad the top players are
@@leeeyles1864 Swordsoul - Taia or Moye into Chixiao - Longyuan into Baronne de Fleur - Fusion Destiny into Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer. Such skill... such finesse...
I personally find Yu-Gi-Oh the most fun once the first few turns are done with and it goes from solitaire combofest to chess. I love the challenge of "how do I get rid of this and gain advantage" rather than "how do I get to win con and slap them with it"
What I learned from master duel is that modern Yu-Gi-Oh! can be fun, but you have to go in expecting to play modern. And when you open hand traps. There's been multiple times when I haven't opened hand traps and I'll just get up and check the mail, go to the bathroom etc because that guys just going to be playing solitaire for 7 minutes and I really don't need to be there for anything other than the end board if I can't interact.
I learned two lessons: 1) surrender early and often. You have better things to do than watch the opponent play 2) Kick the opponent when they are down and keep kicking. Remember any card they play might win them the game on the spot. Mercy is for 3rd rank duelists.
The problem is that if you were to try and solve this issue, it would result in a radically different game (Duel Links for example). Link monsters were ultimately the breaking point in terms of free extenders and speeding up the pace of the game, and now fusion monsters are receiving the same treatment by basically allowing for them to use materials from the deck. The only monster type that's left for Konami to break at this point are ritual monsters and normal monsters (if Konami can even find a way to break normal monsters).
One thing that I really appreciate about the modern state of the game is the fact that because we have so many cards now, EVERY aspect of a card can matter quite a bit. Level, type, attribute and sometimes even stats all matter and are very important for many combos to even work whereas if we go way back you could just splash generically good monsters into a deck where they wouldnt really fit into and you'd be fine. A personal example recently for me would be that I prefer to run light/dark attributed handtraps in my Thunder Dragon Deck in MD because those cards synergize better with other cards in my deck even though Ash Blossom is a better card than lets say Effect Veiler. Sure some ppl might prefer it the way it was back then and I get that but I feel like Konami deserves some credit for making every aspect of a card relevant. Also theres some other niche stuff like playing in the correct columns that sometimes comes up and is quite fun.
I just wish Konami would fix the problem of poorly designed generic cards, instead of releasing more handtraps as an artificial band-aid which doesn't actually fix the problem.
Honestly the new Small World card rulings really add to ur point well. Having Stat-Type-Attribute matter for cards like that allow some insane synergies across a 10k+ card pool. It’s amazing.
Therion, punk, eldlich, brave, orcust, rocket, amazement,mekk knight, invoked. And I could go on. Still shit tons of splashable engines that are very generic in use.
Yugioh may not have actual formats like MtG but the power creep of cards basically simulates them. What's the point in allowing all cards ever printed if the deck you played 10 years ago would get demolished today. The fact that Raigeki, Change of Heart, Brain Control, Monster Reborn, Harpie's Feather Duster, and Yata are all unbanned now demonstrates that Konami has just power crept the game to get you to buy the newer cards while tricking you into thinking underwise. And you think this deserves praise?
@@robrick9361 I don't think you're making a great point. The fact that a decade old deck if played exactly as it was back then would lose is to be expected, the game would be considered extremely stale if that wasn't the case. 10+ year old cards like veiler see widespread play and even much older cards like torrential tribute, book of moon and raigeki are still used; a card that was a laughing stock like smoke grenade of the thief can eventually become incredibly good and even banworthy. Old strategies are constantly innovated on and they get new support that breathes new life into them. I think these and more (like what op mentioned, with the specific characteristics of a card being more relevant than ever) are definetly commendable things, yes.
I dunno, after several months of Master Duel, I just feel the game honestly is not for me anymore. Let's start off with some good things: I think Konami has been KILLING it with archetype theming and story. Especially with their bigger ones, such as World Legacy and Albaz story lines. I know that none of it is really new, but it feels like such a bigger grander scale this time around. Drytrons and Ursartics based on the constellations Draco and Big and Little Dipper. Eldlich and the El Dorado and Alchemy references. Flowandereeze based on actual bird and its migratory patterns. FREAKING SUPER QUANTUMS AND THEIR SUPER SENTAI AND THEIR XYZ MACHINES ACTUALLY FUNCTION BETTER WHEN THE PILOT IS USED AS MATERIAL? CAUSE ITS "INSIDE" THEIR MACHINE. Love it. Possibly the best thing from modern yugioh. Yes, I know, not really a gameplay thing, but stuff like this really hooks me in to the game. Some decks really are very skill intensive. You CANNOT just choose/target/search whatever card you want. You have to be mindful of your choices as well as sequencing. One wrong choice can end up making a solid hand into a brick. Also "mechanics" like chain blocking are pretty neat in discovering how to best used and take advantage of to protect your combos. There definitely feels like there's a little bit more flexibility in modern yugioh. I always wanted to mix archetypes together to see what combinations can work out. I remembering doing this in the DS games by making Gravekeepers and Blackwings or Fortune Ladies and Destiny Heroes. They were not the best for sure, but I love the idea of mixing engines together in trying to find synergies. Its always fun looking stuff up like this. EDIT1: Yugioh feels the most balance when it comes to going first vs going second out all the card games I played. It actually feels like you have to mindful of your choice depending on what deck you have. The bad: I know you mentioned not drawing handtraps and that's just "card games" but modern YGO really feels like one of the few card games where drawing a bad hand really REALLY messes you up, whether it be first or second. No handtraps or board breaks means you are going to have a much harder time going second unless your opponent also had a bad/weak starting hand. "Draw the out" becomes a lot less relevant when you don't have the luxury of waiting a few turns. Even if you were to have the needed handtraps, the game state is still pretty binary. You handtraped at a bad time? Your opponent goes off with a great board or (near) game ending state. You handtrapped them at a correct time? They either have a weaker(or even bad) board or they have an extender to continue on to have a better board or (near) game ending state. Your opponent counters your handtraps? They are probably going do their thing as usual and you are probably going to have a bad time. Its really not that interesting once you know where to handtrap I find. Maybe that's the thing: The journey of learning is fun, but once you know, you just chalk it up as business as usual. Lets be real here: Lower tiered decks are lower tiered for a reason. You might be able to get some wins in, especially against the top tiered stuff. But is that happening because you are good player, is it because you were playing against a weaker player, or did your opponent not have a way to deal with your strategy? I am not trying knock players down and their fave rogue decks, but I do want to stress that top 2 with Celtic Guardian Control is a lot less impressive when the tournament was locals, only had about 30 players, and only four rounds. Yeah, Blackwings may be to make that super sweet multi-negate board, but how often does it actually happen, relative to more competitive decks. Blue Eyes might be better now than it ever was, but again, is it actually a good deck in the grand scheme of things? Is it consistent enough? I am going to sound hypocritical for a moment. I think engines are fine, but the outcomes for a lot them are problematic. You might end up having "one" card combo starters that can either give a big monster/removal or near unexhaustive engine of card advantage. I think the pay off is too good for some of them. Again, I love the idea of mixing engines, but I don't like what they lead to in modern ygo. Some cards today feel they are designed to be hard or punish you for trying interacting with your opponent. Stuff like Raye coming back if the mecha form is removed, Shuraig not targetting so you can't just bait out his banishing effect when he is summoned, most of Eldlich's archetype cards, Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer, some of the Numeron cards. It gets to the point where you need specific answers to deal with some these cards, which is kinda fine, if it wasn't for the strength of these cards to begin with. Personally, I believe that a "diverse" metagame is not necessarily indictive a healthy game. Sure it is better than T0 format, but the whole mantra of "everything is broken, so nothing is" really does not translate well into card games. Games where you are expected to not always have the cards you need for a given moment. Can you believe there are people out there the unironically believe that players who do not draw out their needed handtraps are bad? On the first five cards? It could really help if Konami had more formats to play in. No, Rush Duels does not count, cause you cannot use your collection from the original game. It is its own game with its own product. I feel I gave the game a decent chance for about four months and actually tried to learn what is or isn't good. Again, this is all referring to Master Duel, so I am VERY VERY ignorant on how to TCG is exactly, but people's reactions to that Mystic Mine deck are not really instilling me with confidence lol. I definitely liked it at times when games were grindy and less locking my opponent out or going for the kill after blasting their board. Winning by the latter two really does not excite me that much. It is not very engaging for me. These are not just a YGO problems also, lot of card games I tried out for throughout the years have a chunk of these issues, and I am just getting extremely frustrated with a lot these reoccurring problems I keep seeing. Its why I been thinking about looking into a finished "living" card game instead. Or make my own card game. With blackjack.
Totally agree! back then, it was back and forth long duels because decks were not depending on combos to work ; Only a thematic/and combination of few cards! Few searchers/enablers ; Tier0 decks were banned after a maximum 2 months ....
Have you tried Smash Up, by any chance? It's pretty fun. Then again, I only really play with friends, sh maybe you can have similar problems. But overall I find it enjoyable.
You already responded to this in a previous discussion video: Hand traps are less interesting forms of interaction than set cards. Bluffing and overextending are concepts the outside viewer can understand and makes the game compelling to try, whereas the intricacies of hand trap ratios and when to use them require memorizing hundreds of complicated meta cards and meta combos and the other player doesn't have any information about your counterplays. Modern YGO appeals to dedicated/veteran players. For everyone else, the forms of interaction are annoying and the learning curve is too high to start having fun.
i hate that in order to keep up with other players, you have to have the same like about 10-20 maindeck-cards and 5-10 extradeck-cards that everybody uses and every endboard looks about the same. it makes the game boring as hell and nothing feels unique
"Modern Yu-Gi-Oh Isn't As Bad as You Think!" Yeah, there's so much variety. You either: - build an unbreakable board - break an unbreakable board - get your combo going - not let your opponent's combo going - lock your opponent from playing - get locked from playing Ahh, ain't it great
I think my biggest issue with Yu-Gi-Oh that has been there from the very beginning is how hopeless a game can feel. I am referring to a situation where your opponent has gone first and even if you do have good interruption they set up a board you know you can't break. It feels so demoralizing when you know, "Well, there's nothing I can do.". Same goes for early Yu-Gi-Oh. Well my opponent has a card I can't get rid of,"Well, guess I'll scoop." I do really enjoy low-tier Yu-Gi-Oh of any era because that's where I find the game to be the most fun. I personally only play Yu-Gi-Oh on the side while Vanguard is my main game because Vanguard only has this happen every 1 in 20 games because there is almost always something you can still do.
I just started playing again a year ago and have found there's so many ways to play. I love the fact I can just play three structure decks and have a blast. Or spend my time building an awesome meta deck. If you don't like a style of play don't play it. That's what makes yugioh so awesome and versatile.
The best part of modern yugioh is variety. No matter who you are you will find a deck that cliques with you. If you like slow decks the options are endless, you could go paleo frogs, or guru control or Dinomorphia and so on. Every single one of the decks in this specific group have unique advantages and match-ups.
There is an archetype based on Romance of the Three Kingdoms. There is an archetype based on Dante's Inferno! (Good thing this isn't the late 90's anymore...)Truly, modern Yugioh, whether these archetypes are any good or not, the stylish aesthetic cannot be matched, as far as I am concerned.
And yet modern yugioh has no variety. Just look at master duels where like 80% of the decks are all swordsouls with the same stupid combo over and over.
@@shonenhikada9254 The issue with master duel is that it's a ranked format where the only incentive is to win and move up ranks. So only the best decks are picked. Also master duel's banlist is completely broken and is horribly balanced for a best of 1 format. When playing casually the decks are usually diverse as winning is not as prioritized.
I agree that "bad" decks can extend or build better boards now because of modern yugioh with its generic extra deck and splashable engines. It helps raise the ceiling of these decks and can even play through some interruptions. My current charmer deck now plays the Adventure package, Dogmatika engine, and Branded which allows me to still setup boards and play through handtraps. Since there's so many tech and staples for all situations unlike a few years ago, there is now a penalty for investing too much on a board because of the handtraps and go-second cards. Yugioh has never been this diverse in all my time I've played.
I am a certified Yugiboomer, played in 2003 onward. I don't think the modern game is bad, though it is a radical departure of what it once was. I do think that in general, it would be a BETTER game if it were slower and had more back-and-forth, but it's still a good game as it is.
Yeah a game is only fun to watch and play when there’s a back and forth and possibility for a turn around. When checkmate is set by turn 2 it’s pretty anticlimactic.
I honestly am more a fan of old Yu-Gi-Oh! Style because decks had more heart in them. Like you got a feel for your opponent’s personality or their passions by the decks they built, as well as enjoying truly getting to see how your two decks full strength is over time in a back and forth duel. Now? Far too easy to trap your opponent into being unable to do anything by the end of turn one and having no way to turn it around. Just heartless cold logic that makes me feel cheated out of any ability to enjoy a duel and that my opponent feels less of a true duelist and more of a fake duelist looking for a cheap win to laugh at me for and get bragging rights about. Needless to say, I find Master Duel very frustrating for this as the only way I can even hang in there with a Magikey deck is to run TWO Skill Drains AND a damn Summon Limit. I hate using cards like that, but it’s the only way to give myself a fighting chance against these cheap win seeking “jerks”, to avoid trouble with the censor people….
Classic just has vibes that modern can't offer. Modern got to a point where I can pull out my phone and do something else while the other guy playing solitaire. Almost treating the game like it's a mobile p2w throw away five minutes type of deal.
I mean the problem is, you shouldn't be required to have hand traps to be able to play, what if you have them but don't draw them? You have no outs your turn comes and you can't do anything if your hand isn't good enough to break the board
You act like this isn't something that happens in literally every card game in existence. Play bad cards, expect to have bad games. Play good cards, expect to have good games. There's nothing more to it.
What I love about modern yugioh is the focus on the extra deck. The whole concept of the extra deck is unique to yugioh and it's definitely my favorite part. I dont think any other card game had anything that is as fun or unique as the extra deck
In addition to that, something like Dogmatika’s definitely make this unique as well. Like they don’t “need” the extra deck but need the extra deck at the same time.
I like the Extra Deck a lot too. One thing I think hurt it though, was how each new Extra Deck type was introduced as a straight up: "Better version" of the one before. Which felt like "Shiny new toy" syndrome.
I do like the extra deck as well but the amount of summons from it in one turn is ridiculous and having 2 of the same op monster on the board, that needs to go.
I think something everyone forgets when discussing YGO is that the evolution was necessary. The game had already changed rules multiple times before the worldwide release and even with that, on the trajectory it was on, it had no where really to go. Statistical power creep had largely hit the ceiling, effect complexity was the only course to take. The real issue with Classic YGO was that it largely was set up for a definitive end, it wasn't set up for ongoing releases, something Modern YGO is. I totally agree on turn length taking the place of turn count. I think that's something that's missed in comparing YGO to other games that have experienced power creep. Your observation is the same as my own, it's just the time being placed into a different position.
i got back into yugioh a few weeks ago so I’m fresh, but I’m loving it. I used to play in high school then basically forgot all about yugioh until a dear friend begged me to play master duel with him. I agreed and never looked back. Turns out I’m surprisingly decent at yugioh, who knew! Unsurprisingly though, it was tough learning all the new concepts of yugioh. My head was spinning at first but I love that all the new cards and combos allow for self expression. I love that even when I’m not playing a meta deck I can still build a deck around an archetype and there will be enough on theme cards that can help you supe up your deck. For example I love playing windwitches. Probably not meta viable at all, but I have been kicking ASS with it on master duel. I’ve tuned up the deck 5 times and it’s only gotten more and more powerful without me having to remove the core windwitch archetype. I don’t feel like. I can say the same about Pokémon or Magic. Also I feel that despite modern yugioh being complicated I do feel that it’s like riding a bike, once you truly learn Al the new stuff… you’re not likely to forget. My only real hot take is that, coming from Pokémon tcg (where an out of turn response is practically unheard of) I largely don’t understand what people mean when they say that playing yugioh is like solitaire. Maybe that’s what competitive/tournament matches which is too bad if true, a good chunk of thr matches I’ve played have been extremely fluid, dynamic and responsive. However I think that, at least in casual matches, link monsters are the true slog of yugioh. Link monsters and thier combos seem to grind all momentum to a halt. Unless you have a good hand trap or a way to prevent your opponent from special summoning multiple times, you might as well break out the camping gear. Tl:Dr Yugioh has been incredibly good to me in the small time I’ve been playing as a returner, but if I had one wish: I would banish all link monsters out of existence.
I think link monster are one of the better things that happened to the game. I think we should go back to a master ruler similliar to master rule 4 where the link arrows actually were important
I wish people wouldn't discount people who don't like the current state of the game as "Yugiboomers". I've been playing competitively since 2011, and I've enjoyed many of the formats up until extra linking became a thing, which pushed away a lot of remaining players that stayed for links. As someone who isn't pining for the days of Gemini Elf beatdown, and actually played stuff like Satellarknights, the game is still way too fast in its current state.
@James Barton-Johns thank you !! I firmly believe that they should too. I think it would be very cool for the game and might give a chance to further balance this game .
Wouldnt they sell less though? I mean, if they were to revive an archetype, would they most not likely reboot it? Printing new cards so a deck has only 5-10% of it be older cards?
@@Folfire I’m just an idiot but 1. Not everything has to be about money, and this can be seen as a win for players and new players especially 2. They already do this to a degree, just not as good as it can be I think 3. I think “rebooting” a deck/archetype is kinda goes along of what I’m saying 4. Not every player wants to play meta but casual anime like duels 5. Money can be made , there’s already an audience for this and could encourage players to revisit and buy cards if done and marketed right 6. Konami are always gonna be making new cards and powercreep to sell , so I don’t see what’s wrong with just supporting older cards/decks better… I would argue it would boost sales on top of what they already do because a lot of old players want to relive their old fav decks/card if you get what I’m saying
We should be giving decks their cards back slowly to see what impact they have on the meta. An example would be Gateway of the Six which is currently limited, we can semi - limit the card and see what happens, if it's nothing, then unlimit the card.
They do occasionally give older archetypes more support from time to time to varying degrees of success (Cyber Dragons/Cyberdarks being a very recent example) but not nearly as extensively as they should be
There is barely any interaction even with hand traps, and those interactions are just negates usually. Old school Yu-Gi-Oh had it so you had to play conservatively like you may not want to attack due to a facedown card, now you want to play as aggressive and as fast as possible and do everything you absolutely because next turn you can just be otk'd.
This. One of the most frequent arguments I see is that interaction does exist, and on a dictionary-definition scale, it is, but it's like if you participate in...let's say a backflipping competition, and then you break your opponent's legs before the day of the competition. It's rare to see a deck decisively break a board rather than just stop it from forming in the first place.
Whether or not you'd win a game in old school YuGiOh solely relied on how many overpowered cards you could draw. Take one single look at older YuGiOh without being biased for once and you'll see how broken it actually was.
@@aRetailArchitect I have played a lot of old school yu-gi-oh and played with a lot of if not all of the good cards from that era. Yeah there was a lot of great cards like pot of greed, but then you would draw into a man eater bug and a witch of the black forest, now pot of greed gives you cards you can special summon easily and then extend combos out another 5-10 steps. But again, now you want to play as fast as possible and make boards that prevent your opponent from playing. The "good ol' days" had it where your battle phase was actually important, there was no realistic way to get 5(now 6) monsters on your side of the field in one turn, tribute summoning and flip effect monsters were actually a relevant mechanic outside monarchs and sub terror control decks, trap cards were used. The best card for a long time was MST, but now we have things like DPE which can destroy ANY card every turn on a quick effect, the power scales are not even close. The dragon rulers was an oppressive deck but compared to thunder dragons it's not even a comparison on which deck is better. The point of the game used to be bring your opponents life to 0 and make sure your opponent can't bring yours down to 0, now it's essentially make sure your opponent can't play the game and use hand traps to not let your opponent get in a place where they don't let you play the game.
I like modern YGO, but still think you could have approached this little bit better. Most of the "problems" of modern YGO comes from the approach of the players to the game. An example are those who say "a single handtrap can kill a deck" fail to realize how almost ANY interruption could have killed that deck, and without interruptions that deck would become what they hate.
You kind of make a good point. If a deck that is considered low tier tries to go for their combo that probably is their best play but dies to Ash Blossom, the deck would have died to any other interruption anyway because they may not have any other plays to make if the main combo gets stopped.
@@JuwanBuchanan Which happen to lot of decks like normal summon X then if there's X on the field then can special summon Y from hand and go on....but then there's a card like DPE that completely shutdown that by pop X out which leads to the next thing...."engine" .Anything that free and doesn't eat your normal summon and able to save your *ss or extend the play. For single handtrap kill the deck, *look at Heroes and that space rock
@@petiteexplication6249 I'm not talking about handtraps in specific, but interruptions in general. If a deck dies to Dimensional Shifter, an specific handtrap, it will also die to Macro Cosmos. Ignoring the difference between both cards of course.
you either gets interrupted and get OTKed next turn or you dont interrupted and make a unbeatable board that your opponent cant get over it (unless they draw the out, but thats luck based, not skill based) gotta love this shitty ass game
When people complain about modern yugioh by saying something like "old school yugioh" they often dont even really remember old school yugioh. They remember playground yugioh. Those are completely different stories.
Yeah, I definitely agree. I really got into Yugioh when the Synchro's were first introduced. Back then we used to keep cards in our hand so we did not get wrecked after overextending. Do I miss that time period? Yeah. I kinda miss doing basic Dragunity normal summon, equip, summon, Synchro, equip, summon, make Stardust Dragon, Colossal Fighter, or Thought Ruler Archfiend and then keeping another couple of monsters in my hand so I could summon again the next turn. But I also do like modern Yugioh where so many decks actually do have plays that they can make. I only play rogue and casual decks atm because most meta decks aren't fun to me. I might be getting into Therion but probably just Therion Plant/Aromage since I just like playing Aromages. The decks I actively play at the moment are Synchron Stardust Dragon Assault Mode, Red Dragon Archfiend, and Dragonmaid Branded. I played Nekroz Auroradon combo before the banlist. And I still have things for Crusadia, Lyrilusc XYZ, Springan Therion, Altergeist, Guru Control, Red-Eyes Rank 7 Spam, and Orcust laying in the back. The only true meta decks that I played when they were meta were Nekroz and Orcust both because I loved how they played when they released. I played Orcust before it was meta simply because I love the art, I loved the playstyle but I haven't played it since Harp got unjustly banned and I will play it again only if Harp Horror makes a return (WHICH IT SHOULD, DAMNIT. ORCUST HARP HORROR HAS BEEN BANNED FOR 870 DAYS. X days until the release of Harp Horror.) I have seen 3 local wins with 3 different decks. Dragonmaid(Pure), Synchron Stardust Dragon Assault Mode, and Nekroz Auroradon. All rogue decks. Rogue decks these days have so many things to offer. Even casual/fun tier decks like Red Dragon Archfiend can make cool stuff. The meta decks aren't THAT much better than the rogue decks either. It's just a difference in consistency most of the time, I feel. Less bricky/less vulnerable to handtraps. Nekroz can still shut down an entire Despia field and bounce back Branded fusion monsters without triggering Mirrorjade.
@@RinaShinomiyaVal how does the kuriboh argument make sense when back then it wasn’t mandtory to run kuriboh in every single deck. Now you almost HAVE to run ash/called/droplet etc in damn near every deck just to break a board with Barrone/savage/whatever other degenerate unbreakable omni negate board. And even then it’s not guaranteed you will draw into those and even successfully break that board they can set up in ONE turn. It’s not even a close comparison LMAO
the issue with older decks in modern yugioh such as blackwings is that even with the new support the deck still dies to a single handtrap, it doesn't matter if it can do a huge combo when a single handtrap causes the deck to shit it self and it stops working.
XYZ summoning was the last new mechanic I cared to learn. But since then the game has become completely unrecognisable. It's far too fast, there's far too many cards to really get a grasp on what your opponent is even doing; and I'm an adult now without the time to dedicate to learning about these hundreds upon hundreds of new archetypes/cards and what each and every one of them does. You just cannot hop on Master Duel as a classic player without being paired with somebody who summons 3 pendulums and 2 Link monsters in the first turn with card text that is too overwhelming to read. I think they really need to invest in new official formats and allow players to enjoy the game in different ways. Like the Online Pokemon TCG companion app has a system where you can duel people with very strict limitations in place like only using structure/theme decks. As someone that was a fan all the way upto XYZ summoning it sucks that I just have zero desire to come back to the game because of how ridiculous it's gotten.
As someone who was a long time MTG player swapping over to yugioh, while I hate the “solitaire turns” I still enjoy the speed and complexity of the game. It feels a lot like the legacy format in MTG. Every card game has its pro’s and cons
One thing that I gotta hand it to Konami is that the archetypes show a ton of really strong creativity with their concepts. They're moving a lot of the most creative stuff over to Rush Duel, though. There just aren't enough cards/decks that sufficiently pull the brakes, and ones that do usually don't actually outgrind due to how easy starters are. A big reason why a deck like Sky Striker is so popular (moreso than other cute girl decks) is because it is a relatively competitive deck that can appeal to people who like longer games with more focus on resource management. Different people have different things that they find fun but most of the decks appeal to the same type of play styles.
I see older formats as a completely different game with similar rules, technically we can use the same old cards from 20 years ago, but is not the same game anymore.
I think it helps to remember that Yugioh has *always* been a degenerate mess in some form or another. "Slower" doesn't necessarily mean "more balanced". If someone nowadays gets out two or three omni negates, with a Solemn card set, and an Ash in hand on their opening turn, you're probably not playing the game. If someone Yata locked you, Mass Driver'd you with Frogs, or discarded your entire hand, back in the day, you weren't playing either.
What I personally don't like is that choosing to go first or second should NOT matter this much at the point that if you have a going first deck and you happen to go second you basically lost the game from the start. I think it should only give a small buff if you have a deck that can take advantage of it because right now it's pretty frustrating.
I'm a totally new Yugioh player who was introduced to the game by master duel. I technically played as a kid but I played in the way a lot of kids did, with partial decks, using incorrect rules from the anime and not fully understanding how anything worked. I'm a long time magic player and was for a long time put off from yugioh because of the mentality of "Oh yugioh is just solitaire, there's no interaction, you're just trying to kill the opponent in one turn." but I've found the game to be extremely fun and incredibly interactive. The skill with yugioh is very much determined by knowing your opponent's deck, knowing what handtraps you run and how to use them most effectively. I was also shocked by how good the balance between extra deck monster types is and how many different strategies feel fun and powerful and make use of wildly different tools. Modern yugioh is extremely fun and honestly the worst thing about it for me right now is the small but extremely vocal part of the community who seem to outright hate the game as it exists and complain constantly.
I think, at the very least, we can all agree that the speed of the game has increased significantly and I enjoy the slower games. Today's meta your probably drawing 1-2 times before someone loses, this eliminates a lot of cards and decks from meta contention. Past deck building built decks under the assumption that they will draw half of their deck. This is how decks got consistency. youd have a 3 card combo that you build around, and we used draw cards like pot of duality and allure to find them. Now with only getting one turn to be able to do anything, every deck needs a one card starter. Their is no waiting on modern Yu-Gi-Oh.
1:33 Yeah back in the day those interactions were done with an old card type called "Trap Cards". These were cards you set on your turn and were activated on your opponents turn. I know super slow right? Much better to just add those abilities to monsters, A.K.A. "Hand Traps" Older Yugioh actually use to have different card types for specific things. Monsters to attack, Spells to change the state of the game, Traps to play on your opponents turn. Now every monster is also a spell or trap card.......or both! And special summoning is now normal while normal summoning is special. And tribute summoning is basically dial-up internet.
Yugioh hasnt changed for the better it did improve but it had far more set backs then steps forward. the deck vomiting and contstant "you cant play" is downright obnoxious.
I actually don’t mind Modern Yugioh. I love all the decks and all the unique ways to play. You don’t get that in old Yugioh days where everyone played Pot of Greed and Mirror Force and all that. Yeah, you get those people that set up multiple hand traps and omni negate boards, but honestly, that’s just going to be the meta of the game. Like, I love modern Yugioh but hate the meta, if that makes sense. I don’t mind hand traps as long as there aren’t too many, I understand their place. And the only time that Yugioh is Solitaire is when you play against a twenty omni negate board with Scythe or you play against Flower Cardian. And those matches are few and far between depending on where you go. Whereas old Yugioh, every game lasts at least 20 turns and most of the time you’re sitting there taking hits because your opponent has Ginzo and you have no way around that. How is that a better game? I don’t know. I think the difference is how many people know/play the meta. Like, back in 2002 there wasn’t much internet or anything, so people knew what cards were good but didn’t really know the “meta” of the game, so they’d play with whatever they found to be their favorite cards. Which is totally fine. Then in 2022 with the internet people are more aware of the ever changing meta game and netdecking. It’s a little frustrating because you know most people who made their deck didn’t come up with the original idea and are just following the trend because it gets them the most wins. It’s no different when you go back to play 2005 format. Everyone knows the metagame for that now, so if anything it’s just as cancer as the current metagame, just 20 turns slower. I don’t blame the game getting faster. It’s just an inevitability of games like this to make them more exciting. Just that more people are aware of the meta and play it because it wins and in turn people who don’t play the meta and just want to have fun lose every game and are told that to win they need to add these meta cards and if they don’t then they’ll keep losing. That’s just the way it is when you play the TCG or even Master Duel. Which is why I try to stick to casual fun with friends.
but today, everyone plays, Apollousa, Dragoon, Borreload, Accesscode, needlefiber, DPE, etc etc. So the main deck may be "different", the extra decks are damn near identical and the end boards are VERY similar. so the argument of everyone playing PoG and Mirror Force is a moot one. Cuz the issue still exists today, just in the extra deck.
The amount of decks that there are now is undeniable. If a new player were to learn the rules and join the game they would eventually find a deck that calls to them. For any reason they could pick 1 or 2 from the hundreds of decks there are. You like locking out the game, play trap control decks. Want to finish you opponent really quickly and unexpectedly, here are these fats otk decks. Even if they are a retuning player and want to play Black wings they can do so because old decks get tons of support almost every year. Each deck definitely now has their own goal on how to win.
Very well thought out video Paul. You nailed every point I thought of and hadn't thought of....I really liked the part about when you mentioned freedom of expression and yeah, hadn't thought about that...but as Walter from Breaking Bad said, "you're goddamn right" Yugioh is a lot about freedom of expression and I think that's why I gravitate to your channel and others like it; who dabble in experimenting and tinkering with the niche premises of decks and not always what they're capable of - but what they can be capable of if tweaked a bit differently... The crazy amount of shenanigans I've seen in this game...irl and with Farfa's table 500 is incredible. Truly a test of time all memes aside I really appreciate this side of the community hussle to put the time and effort for making vids like these. One other thing The part about torrential tribute and gorz....yeah absolutely...we always had to watch out for them back in the day. Torrential a bit more relevant now...but yeah Evenly it's become the new board wipe next to lightning storm (rageki again) and Nibiru. There will always be something new to add to the game. Whether it needs that or not idk...very fast gameplay (usually) and one of the things I admire about it more than any other card game.
As a casual player that just jumped on the games about a year ago coming straight from the old school vanilla days I made my first modern blue eyes deck and I got to say after I took the time to learn the newer mechanics i felt more like kiaba in modern times being able to get 2 blue eyes on the field in one turn than I did back in the day, that being said I’m not becoming a huge fan of erratas though because it holds me back from going building the old meta decks to somewhat experience the old metas ive missed which is why I wish they would just print retrains I think it’s called
My only complaint is the price. Good cards are too damn expensive. (I’m from asia i don’t play ocg since i cant read japanese and the ocg sucks rn, tcg card prices here are almost always 3x the original price) Also, you’re so on point my guy, modern yugioh is so fun specially when it comes to problem solving. It roots from your deck making to your general gameplay. It makes your brain work and for me thats what makes modern yugioh fun!
Back in elementary school, my playground rules were wild. The most notable one was we could summon big beefy guys by sacrificing life points as a tribute, since we all didn't have good cards or a bunch of cards, we still had to play. So if we wanted to summon dark magician we had to sacrifice 2000 LP. So each 1000 was a tribute. It had a risk factor to it but it got bricks out of the hand. I bet there is a card like that now but I miss that made up aspect and just having goofing off fun
Interesting. We played with a mulligan. With your original 5 cards, you could discard any of them a redraw that many. I still keep the rule for my yugioh cube. Although now I make people shuffle them back into the deck instead of leaving them in the grave.
This definitely gave me a lot to think about, even though I have reasons to disagree with almost everything. What it ultimately boils down to is that these ideas apply in "Theory", but it often doesn't end up being that way in practice. Hand Traps for instance. The idea of them allowing interactions is a nice idea, but in practice, they either lock your opponent completely out of his play (Which ends up being most casual players interactions with hand traps), or the opponent has so MANY combo pieces that they can steamroll through the handtrap anyway. Or you don't draw the hand-trap or enough of them. Part of the issue is that there's no room for error in modern meta. In more casual play, in the lower tier decks. If you don't draw the out that turn, you can probably at least play defense until you get out something useful. But if you're playing against a high level deck, unless you get the hand-trap THAT turn, you won't live to see your next turn. When people complain about "What's a turn 3?" I think the larger point is that in practice, it's more like "what's a "third counter?" Like, the image of the condensced duel makes me think of Yugi vs Kaiba in Battle City. Where one turn would be filled with: "I activate this!" "Well I activate this!" "Well I activate this!" Well I activate this!" And they were going counter for counter. But even watching the 2019 Worlds, which was two evenly matched high level decks, there was maybe one interaction. And then the deck would win on turn one or two.
Besides the unaffordable cards at times in yugioh and untimely reprints the cards and decks themselves I think are pretty even at this point. You can beat meta decks with rogue and tier 2 decks if you know your deck and scout the meta well. So currently besides a few cards the game is currently in a pretty good place.
Thanks for the video. So quick background, I'm a long- time magic player coming over to yugioh via master duel, and before that I hadn't played since like 2004. So obviously, big changes. I think the best similarity between the speed of Yu-Gi-Oh compared to Magic is actually the Vintage format. That's the one where you can play black lotus and time walk and all these broken old cards. The key thing in vintage is actually that there's still a ton of interaction, it just happens in dramatically fewer turns, which is exactly one of your points about modern Yu-Gi-Oh. So if anyone is comparing card games, looking at Vintage Magic is, at least for me, a really good comparison to understand how you can jam so many interactions and game actions into so few turns and still have a balanced and interactive game
I 100% agree on your point about handtraps. I just got back into the TCG when Master Duel came out (quit in GX as a competitive player) and it took me a LONG time to realize this point. Turn 1 modern YuGiOh is not solitaire with hand traps. You have multiple ways to interact with and in some cases, completely shut down your opponent’s plays on their own turn.
Paul is THE most rational and logical YugiTuber around. He always brings the most cohese and on point discussions to light. He does not takes sides, he only sides with The Logic. What makes sense and that's it. To the point he defends both "sides" (as I said it is not exactly sides, he just takes what makes sense from both amd exposes it in a very balanced and reasonable way)
I think what changed about this game is the floodgates and negate boards became to prominent over time the hard part is finding casual players in person or online who enjoy the game the same way i do. Not wanting too play competitive but more creatively i'm more interested in a cool slug fest with no interruptions prioritized in deck building and just seeing what unique stuff i can come up with. I feel like this was more common in zoodiac format when i was playing fire kings more so than today even when i play the best deck the best build and ratios and all of that winning doesn't feel fun there no rush like 5D's before Tele-DaD :(
yes, also 2 hand traps not 3, it's just nice to have 3, & some decks have cut back on that for the most recent format, but back in the day traps mattered, having 2-3 traps in hand could stop the opponent's best plays for consecutive turns , just like having a truly impactful & well placed hand trap can now , for anyone missing that part of the game from old yugioh, hand traps are what gives the modern game that exact same feeling & aspect so that it isn't missing , nibiru feeling like torrential was a perfect example
@@GrandHarrier trap cards are still used, but they don't play the same way they used to be played & feel different, they're used in dedicated trap decks with in some cases 20 or more in the deck that work vs boards with combinations of trap effects or as hard counters to specific things/very high impact effects in lower numbers in the side deck for going first, except Infinite Impermanence which is used more commonly & is also a hand trap.
@@Marcusjnmc That was the whole point of trap cards. And they were balanced by not being usable the turn they were set, and they needed to meet their activation conditions so until then they were just sitting there waiting to be popped by an MST or Heavy Storm. Hand traps throw that whole balance out the window. And those kinds of effects like negates should have been left to trap cards and not given to monsters.
@@shapular the outs were limited on the forbidden list , & there are also outs to hand traps, which are also limited , most hand traps also have activation conditions responding to a specific game state or action, keeping that same feeling of limited response & play around the reaction lines of play that were a staple part of old yugioh, without hand traps the game would feel way less like old yugioh.
I like both modern and old yugioh. I find going second to be fun, seeing if i can solve the puzzle of breaking a board. And if icant well gg i gave it a shot. Unless its like some Rhongo Bongo bs
That right there is my biggest issue with modern YuGiOh . And to be clear if someone enjoys modern YuGiOh that is fine , I am not there to tell them what you should or should not do. But when the main goal of YuGiOh became “don’t let your opponent play”, as little interaction as possible , hence all the hand traps, all the negates, that is when I checked out
Even though I get my ass kicked often, I still enjoy the game because I'm a lot more open to suggestions than I was like 8 years ago last time I played.
Talk about interactions and hand traps and we are back to the identity convo and how you are forced to play those certain cards at 3 max all in your deck or you cannot do anything.
We have a saying in MTG and that is if you cannot win by your turn six, if i remember correctly, the deck needs work. Like just straight up drawing hands and playing till your sixth turn is all i would do to test my decks a lot to see if it could deal 20 points of damage and how many monsters can be summoned. The back and forth response to what players do can be ridiculous on there at times as well. Each game is different and there is a reason why other games have not changed tempo down to one turn otks which is a good thing. There has to be a way to limit decks but still keep it quick, i used to hear that turn 3 was the turn to end on, idk why people would wanted to make it a 1 turn otk 3 turns is pretty quick and is quicker then back when it started by a good bit.
As an avid and successful Blackwing player since Duelist Genesis I can tell you they have always been on my list for good decks that can wing when they aren’t dealt with. Look at the banlist throughout the years and see how many cards are and have been Blackwing cards. They are incredibly powerful when they player knows the deck and how to play yugioh.
But those cards are not the banlist because of blackwing players lol. Cards like gofu were getting abused by halq decks etc. Not because they were broken in their own archetype
So the problem I see, is that if you have, for example those 3 handtraps in your hand, that means your deck has to be built in a way that almost any pair of 2 cards apart from staples will give you access to combo that will bring your end board to fruition. Which means cards which can be useful in the middle to late game becomes useless, as there is no middle and late game at all. It’s just early game combo to end game. So a lot of nice cards just become useless which always sucks.
My problem with modern Yu GI oh is that the player that's go second have so much disadvantage, he only have access to 6 cards and no mulligan to try to sculpt a decent hand.
Hmm, you may have touched on one of the more reasonable aspects that could really help a second turn player fight back against a prepared board. A mulligan as a "reward" for going second may actually work quite well (though in some respects, perhaps too well.)
The thing that I detest about modern yu gi oh is actually that fact that you have to run hand traps. You mention the positives of having an ash, imperm and nibiru in the hand, but I don’t want to have to run the cards. I think if archetypes got ARCHETYPE SPECIFIC hand traps, like if imperm had that negate only if you could reveal a cyber dragon in the hand. That way decks could have something specific that makes them stronger in going second, as opposed to some needing to go first. That’s my take
Forgot to add: you’d need to have a secondary effect to the hand trap, so it’s a combo extension too. Allowing you to benefit from going first too, so less emphasis is placed on going first or second
I don't know if it's just an aspect of current state, but on Master Duel it seems sad that a game with thousands of cards gets squeezed down to a few dozen cards i see over and over and over again
Numerons, Swordsouls, Tri-Brigade, Eldlich, Igknight Go-First Burn, True King of All Calamities I am always legitimately surprised when I see a deck that does not fall into those above categories. An actual Destiny Hero deck playing DPE, doesn't bother me. It's thematically appropriate, Predaplants actually using Verte Anaconda, a pleasant surprise. Madolche Madness, a little annoying, but sure... In addition, the amount of splashable engines into various most deck types robs a lot of individuality that a deck could have
You are right.... interactions exist, but after a while they feel the same, most of my games are like: Ash this, maxxc that, oh! you have called by the grave, amazing play.... o well.... time to watch 5min. of special summons, thats fun.... also it forces you to fill your deck with these cards in order to even have a chance to play the game and it makes deck building a lot more "stiff" and way less creative, you can't even think of adding more than 42-43 cards because if you do not draw your negates, you can't play the game..... Tbh this game is a mess and it will get worse because Konami doesn't care about the state of the game or players, Konami wants to squeeze you as much as possible with ban lists aimed at that, cards that play the game for you and now even gems...
I actually enjoy modern Yugioh despite being hit with the whole kitchen sink of hand traps and on board negates. However that is the exact problem with Modern Yugioh, the amount of negates you have to play through is honestly quite ridiculous. This really forces you to play certain decks that have meta relevancy and cards that extend plays but unfortunately a lot of the older archetypes just can't hang.
@@asimhussain8716 I mean Konami has done a good amount of reprinting to keep the game relatively cheap. Like by the end of the year everyone will have a playset of Droplet. But your right, new archetypes aren't the greatest, especially on their own.
Personally what I dislike about modern yugioh is how everything has become too consistent where a single card can generate so many pluses and you end up with first turn boards that you exhaust all your resources on that decide the outcome of the entire duel. I like the slow build-up of a duel with some footsies at the start until you hit midgame where you then bring out your big plays and boss monsters. And it allows for more opportunities of back and forth gameplay. If I had to compare modern yugioh to a fighting game it’d be like if every character had a 0-to-death combo and every match is decided on who gets the first punish. I can see it get kinda boring after awhile.
Friendly counter: The interaction in Yugioh may be high but it doesnt feel good or fun. The person being interacted feels like their cards are just being turned into dead cards, people will say the same about playing against Blue in MTG, being countered sucks so much more than being destroyed. The one playing the interaction often times may feel like it was boring if they were able to interact too much or just shut down the board building. I think Digimon has a much better back and forth because stuff is actually allowed to hit the field and get its effects off at least once before the opponent can attempt to destroy it. Something like Dragonball Super has much more sparse counters and in most cases causes stuff to come into play in rest or just negate attacks vs instantly killing a card or negating its effects, it just feels better and more even for both parties. Deck building: I'm watching this late so I already saw your other video about this and I agree with that sentiment much more than your slightly positive outlook here. What's the point if I'm always just trying to build the same generic end board no matter what deck I build? I'm not playing a blue eyes deck if all the Blue eyes are in the graveyard at the end of the turn. I can actually half agree with the last point, consistency feels nice, nothing sucks more than top decking a dead card when you have run out of resources. However there is a such thing as too consistent, speed isnt necessarily the issue other card games can end just as fast but you dont feel like your interaction was useless because someone isnt draeing one card full board combos after you've ran out. Again I'll go to Digimon, first on the consistency it absolutely sucks to not be able to build your stack because you didnt draw the right levels but it feels like Digimon wouldnt be near as fun if I were just able to search the deck or summon from deck on a regular basis. And in terms of speed both games can be just as fast and done within very minimal turns.
I have always played spell counter spellcasters from the very beginning since the Skilled Dark Magician first appeared. Every subsequent iteration of spellcasters was basically not strong at all and simply very slow (except for Breaker the Magical Warrior and the Tempest Magician, which have both been in the Forbidden list at some point). Nowadays, although not meta, Spellcounter Endymion and Mythical Beasts can pull out some wild combos with a little bit of luck, and lock the opponent from playing spells, traps, and monsters. That is both insane and awesome, which really drew me back into the game (and gave me quite some headaches with learning the basics of pendulums and links). However, the speed of the evolution of the game is way too fast. I have stopped playing once again for a couple of months and I'm again lost... So many meta archetypes that pop out of nowhere and not enough time to sit to research them... (I guess that's one of the downsides of adulthood...).
I'm not a fan of the speed of the game (and/or mechanics) artificially power creeping certain archetypes; main gripe is with Link Monsters not being able to be put in DEF position (absolutely destroyed viability for my Digital Bug deck :( ). However, I do like that Konami occasionally acknowledges this and generates legacy support for fan-favorite archetypes (Blackwings, Box of Friends, Gaia, etc.) in an attempt to make them somewhat viable strategies.
Totally feel you with the comment about how a random low-tier deck can pop off and do create crazy boards. Back in 2016, if you weren't playing a tier 1-2 deck, it was because it usually just had a flowchart that didn't have many options.
I’m getting back into the game after about a 14 year hiatus and I’m looking to sit down and give the current game a chance. I’ve never been very interested in doing that so this vid gives me some hope!
My problem with the "amount of interactions" being crammed into one turn, is that the player going second can only use their starting hand, while the player going first can potentially use their entire deck, side deck etc. When games were slower, you had more time to draw your "interactions". The handtrap thing also makes it so most decks play the same things, so you make the same decisions, if you drew the handtraps to begin with. Makes it feel more like I'm playing UNO or something when we have 10k+ cards in the game.
The point of "Tier 3 or lower decks have access to powerful generic cards now which makes them better and is good for the game" is a double edged sword. It's essentially the same as the "Unlimit Pot of Greed! It will make my Vehicroid deck so much better!" argument. Strong generic cards can obviously make Tier 3 or lower decks stronger but it will also make Tier 1 decks even stronger as they will use those generic power cards even more effectively. I don't think generic cards are necessarily a bad thing but when cards like Baronne de Fleur and Accesscode Talker are generic and much better than most archetypal boss monsters, it takes away from the identity of most decks and reduces the game to: How efficiently can your deck summon a handful of generic boss monsters?
Im 1996 so im old as Ygo it self. I played it for about what now from first grade to now so like 20 years, and negating your opponents play or losing because you didn't draw 1 of your 15 hand traps pushed ygo from Skill based game to Luck based non interactive game. We need more back-and-forth Master duels lose 90% player base in 2 months so game is bad people have spoken sorry meta sheep's we under stand you spend so much money in this no skill game and its so hard for you to admit that its shit..
I like modern Yugioh, though with how many staples (mostly hand traps) there are that people say you need to run 3 of in your deck, I feel like it guts the individuality of a deck, preventing players from experimenting with less conventional strategies, because the majority don't want to go above 40 cards.
Hmm, I've seen an interesting counter argument to this with the rise of "That Grass looks Greener" decks, which are 60 cards and rely on that 40-card mentality of their opponent to play 1/3 of their deck straight from the graveyard.
@@chrisshorten4406 Hah... interesting. In Master Duel it's not banned and now I have to wonder why it is in the normal game if it is set as a balancing tool to make 60 card decks a viable choice.
You are forced to run like 10 OP handtraps just to be able to play the game. That is a problem. For the first 10-13 years(?) you were never forced to run any number of hand traps to be able to play turn 1. And they weren't 1/3 as powerful. You had to take small steps per turn. And in-between, your opponent had a turn where he could change the game with ANY of his cards in hand. You could not do 30 steps in one turn on EVERY starting hand. This matters because it means the game wasn't decided solely on the 5 cards you drew turn 1, which play themselves to give u a board that ends in 3 OP boss monsters every time More effects and power really just makes the game more complicated for 0 reason. It doesn't make player decisions more meaningful or better strategically, it just adds a huge knowledge barrier for no reason. So many people are interested in playing Yugi again, but like 1% of them end up actually playing again. Why? Is it JUST because there's new cards? Or because every card has more power than nuclear bomb & has font size of 1 & any of its 3 effects can be activated from anywhere anytime ?
One of my favorite things about the game today is how archetypes mash together both new and old. It makes for very interesting mechanics and sometimes a sense of coolness new and old cards combine. Example being the new blackwing deck
I just got back into yugioh 2 monrhs ago after 8 years and at first it was like can I even compete but it's actually been a ton of fun. I go to locals 2 or 3 times a week and love it. I've even started to win a few.
I personally am very new to yugioh still. I started when master duel came out so I don’t know much about the old play style but in my opinion I enjoy the complexity and the variety of win conditions you can have. I recently started to build my favorite deck z-arc (shout out to PEN BEST DECK Trif gaming) to run in tcg.
I dont know if modern YGO is faster, as in "is that the word to be used?". I only begun to play with MD so I can only base my opinion from my knowledge of other games and also YT vids like Progression Series. I would pose the challenge of someone more invested to instead count the number of actions taken per game. I would theorize that older matches have more or less the same number of actions, just that now they are all condensed in 2 turns.
For example, playing the Historic format in MtG the average length of a game I have (with either an Aggro deck or Lock combo) on Bo1 is 3.40 minutes. The average game of a MD game I have is longer, prob around 4 or 5 minutes. The issue is that one of those can be 3-4 mins of my Opponent playing and 1 Min of mine.
I love modern yugioh . The amount of decks I can play and are viable is awesome. Having no set rotation is also a plus. Old cards that were once useless become useful and see play.
One thing I really like about modern yugioh is how almost every deck in the game can be viable with the right build and how a lot of Low tier decks have been getting so much more support that makes decks that were almost unplayable into legitimate threats
@@asimhussain8716 this isn’t the case in like any card game I know of, yugioh is special in that you can play these old decks in the main format and they sometimes do get pretty good support like heros. I’ve played a pretty good amount of card games, mtg, Pokémon, vanguard, hearthstone, legends of runeterra, and a bunch of others, and in every case their are very clear better decks and not every deck is viable, the card game paradise you’re asking for simply doesn’t exist from what I’ve seen there is no way every deck can top in any format and there will always be decks that are just better than the old stuff, Konami should put out better support of course, but I don’t see it as a horrible sin that modern yugioh doesn’t throw mountains of support at 15 year old decks when they could just create an entirely new archetype that has a more clear wincon
@@asimhussain8716 I agree that greedy Konami is bad, but that seems to be the standard across the board for all card games, it’s not a good thing but it’s a fact of the hobby. And some decks are designed to be casual, like one of my favorite decks concept wise is metaphys and that deck is hardly playable in a casual setting let alone a competitive one. I definitely agree with your sentiment but I don’t think it’s a Konami issue it’s a card game issue. Power creep and cost creep is bad in mtg as well and honestly in my opinion Konami is a benevolent overlord compared to wizards
The only problem with the requirement of hand traps in the current meta is that you need to be familiar with the opponent's deck in order to try to counter the right card. Else, you've wasted your hand trap.
The background music is extremely annoying, I barely hear anything what this says. I love APS' content, but I hope he dosn't include them anymore in future videos.
Yu-Gi-Oh sucks. There's no skirting around it. There's no strategy involved anymore, no actual guesswork needed with when to trigger a card, no uncertainty, just netdeck some broken OTK deck from online and that's it.
As a Yu-Gi-Boomer I've encountered an interesting issue when showing new people the game state today, monsters spells and traps are color coded well enough that most people, even if only minimally aware of the game, know basically what they are "you've activated my trap card!" And so forth. Handtraps, being that they're just monsters, confuse new players because there isn't anything inherent about them that sets them apart from other monsters, such as pendulum monsters do. I feel we're a bit late in the game to add a whole new card type for them, but if it were possible I feel it would make the modern meta far less confusing for newer players.
Apologies again for the loud background music in this video. I recorded this and the last video consecutively and didn't recognize the volume was a bit too high. Won't be in the next videos! 😅
Idk if your software has it but a parametric equalizer would help that. Find your voices spectrum and drop that spectrum in the music. It won't clash at all even if you have it loud.
do you know the soundtrack playing at 4:37
My actual complaint is just how expensive it is. I just bought a dinosaur deck to try and finally own a physical deck and the only staples I bought were 2 ash blossom, one lightning storm, and a borreload savage dragon and the price of my deck went up an extra $150. It’s absurd
I know that initial investment sucks but once you buy the staples you need you can transfer them to other decks. I have like 5 decks and when I need to I just move the staples such as Ash Blossom around
150... For a deck?!
@@unkown34x33 Thats pretty much a "cheap" deck. Most budget decks are around 100-150 if you want to have a couple of staples.
@@unkown34x33 150... for 4 cards :)
If ur not planning on ycs or nationals, then u coukd have used that 150 for so much more, u dont need to be as expensive for locals. U should have saved ur cash and bought 3 raigeki or a harpies instead of the lightning storm
I'm just over generically strong boss monsters in extra decks. It makes every deck have very similar end boards. Let's make some actual bosses with specific monsters to give decks an identity. Hate Despia all you want but imo it's awesome that its boss, mirrorjade, has to be played with Albaz. More boss monsters with specific materials, this whole synchro turbo of Barrone, chaos ruler, halq, formula Synchron, and whatever else generic level 11 or 12 that just shuts the turn down. It really sucks to see decks like punk have an end board of no punks but just generically strong extra deck stuff
Yeah 100% agree, I hate seeing Baronne and DPE being used on master duel most of the time and this is in lower gold, I wonder how bad the top players are
@@leeeyles1864 Really bad it's not hard to get Diamond 1. I gotten there using Qliphort Anti-Meta.
@@leeeyles1864 I play Dragon Link, and I make a bunch of Dragons. Yeah!
Hey, my punk deck may not end on any punks but it does end on mats to summon Amazing Dragon on my opponent's turn.
@@leeeyles1864 Swordsoul - Taia or Moye into Chixiao - Longyuan into Baronne de Fleur - Fusion Destiny into Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer. Such skill... such finesse...
I personally find Yu-Gi-Oh the most fun once the first few turns are done with and it goes from solitaire combofest to chess.
I love the challenge of "how do I get rid of this and gain advantage" rather than "how do I get to win con and slap them with it"
I appreciate you fam.
the chess moments were the most fun of cavemen yugioh
nowadays It only occurs when you survive the first few turns
this
Modern Yugioh past the first turns is some of the best Yugioh I have ever seen
Unfortunately, this becomes less and less common the more we go forward.
Now it is if you get a bad hand fold it's a loss already. Smh
What I learned from master duel is that modern Yu-Gi-Oh! can be fun, but you have to go in expecting to play modern. And when you open hand traps. There's been multiple times when I haven't opened hand traps and I'll just get up and check the mail, go to the bathroom etc because that guys just going to be playing solitaire for 7 minutes and I really don't need to be there for anything other than the end board if I can't interact.
Yup. I just throw the controller down and pick up my phone to faff about.
when that happens I just leave the game, I'm not going to waste 7 or so minutes while my opponent literally plays cards with themselves.
This is very useful especially when you have a small child. I can play with him while I wait for my turn
And then it's your turn and you can't play. If you can play and it looks like you can win, your opponent hits the surrender button.
I learned two lessons:
1) surrender early and often. You have better things to do than watch the opponent play
2) Kick the opponent when they are down and keep kicking. Remember any card they play might win them the game on the spot. Mercy is for 3rd rank duelists.
The problem is that if you were to try and solve this issue, it would result in a radically different game (Duel Links for example). Link monsters were ultimately the breaking point in terms of free extenders and speeding up the pace of the game, and now fusion monsters are receiving the same treatment by basically allowing for them to use materials from the deck. The only monster type that's left for Konami to break at this point are ritual monsters and normal monsters (if Konami can even find a way to break normal monsters).
I really want to see them break lycanthrope with its own archetype
Normal monsters have been broken since World Chalice
One thing that I really appreciate about the modern state of the game is the fact that because we have so many cards now, EVERY aspect of a card can matter quite a bit. Level, type, attribute and sometimes even stats all matter and are very important for many combos to even work whereas if we go way back you could just splash generically good monsters into a deck where they wouldnt really fit into and you'd be fine. A personal example recently for me would be that I prefer to run light/dark attributed handtraps in my Thunder Dragon Deck in MD because those cards synergize better with other cards in my deck even though Ash Blossom is a better card than lets say Effect Veiler. Sure some ppl might prefer it the way it was back then and I get that but I feel like Konami deserves some credit for making every aspect of a card relevant. Also theres some other niche stuff like playing in the correct columns that sometimes comes up and is quite fun.
I just wish Konami would fix the problem of poorly designed generic cards, instead of releasing more handtraps as an artificial band-aid which doesn't actually fix the problem.
Honestly the new Small World card rulings really add to ur point well. Having Stat-Type-Attribute matter for cards like that allow some insane synergies across a 10k+ card pool. It’s amazing.
Therion, punk, eldlich, brave, orcust, rocket, amazement,mekk knight, invoked. And I could go on. Still shit tons of splashable engines that are very generic in use.
Yugioh may not have actual formats like MtG but the power creep of cards basically simulates them.
What's the point in allowing all cards ever printed if the deck you played 10 years ago would get demolished today.
The fact that Raigeki, Change of Heart, Brain Control, Monster Reborn, Harpie's Feather Duster, and Yata are all unbanned now demonstrates that Konami has just power crept the game to get you to buy the newer cards while tricking you into thinking underwise. And you think this deserves praise?
@@robrick9361 I don't think you're making a great point. The fact that a decade old deck if played exactly as it was back then would lose is to be expected, the game would be considered extremely stale if that wasn't the case. 10+ year old cards like veiler see widespread play and even much older cards like torrential tribute, book of moon and raigeki are still used; a card that was a laughing stock like smoke grenade of the thief can eventually become incredibly good and even banworthy. Old strategies are constantly innovated on and they get new support that breathes new life into them. I think these and more (like what op mentioned, with the specific characteristics of a card being more relevant than ever) are definetly commendable things, yes.
I dunno, after several months of Master Duel, I just feel the game honestly is not for me anymore.
Let's start off with some good things:
I think Konami has been KILLING it with archetype theming and story. Especially with their bigger ones, such as World Legacy and Albaz story lines. I know that none of it is really new, but it feels like such a bigger grander scale this time around. Drytrons and Ursartics based on the constellations Draco and Big and Little Dipper. Eldlich and the El Dorado and Alchemy references. Flowandereeze based on actual bird and its migratory patterns. FREAKING SUPER QUANTUMS AND THEIR SUPER SENTAI AND THEIR XYZ MACHINES ACTUALLY FUNCTION BETTER WHEN THE PILOT IS USED AS MATERIAL? CAUSE ITS "INSIDE" THEIR MACHINE. Love it. Possibly the best thing from modern yugioh. Yes, I know, not really a gameplay thing, but stuff like this really hooks me in to the game.
Some decks really are very skill intensive. You CANNOT just choose/target/search whatever card you want. You have to be mindful of your choices as well as sequencing. One wrong choice can end up making a solid hand into a brick. Also "mechanics" like chain blocking are pretty neat in discovering how to best used and take advantage of to protect your combos.
There definitely feels like there's a little bit more flexibility in modern yugioh. I always wanted to mix archetypes together to see what combinations can work out. I remembering doing this in the DS games by making Gravekeepers and Blackwings or Fortune Ladies and Destiny Heroes. They were not the best for sure, but I love the idea of mixing engines together in trying to find synergies. Its always fun looking stuff up like this.
EDIT1: Yugioh feels the most balance when it comes to going first vs going second out all the card games I played. It actually feels like you have to mindful of your choice depending on what deck you have.
The bad:
I know you mentioned not drawing handtraps and that's just "card games" but modern YGO really feels like one of the few card games where drawing a bad hand really REALLY messes you up, whether it be first or second. No handtraps or board breaks means you are going to have a much harder time going second unless your opponent also had a bad/weak starting hand. "Draw the out" becomes a lot less relevant when you don't have the luxury of waiting a few turns.
Even if you were to have the needed handtraps, the game state is still pretty binary. You handtraped at a bad time? Your opponent goes off with a great board or (near) game ending state. You handtrapped them at a correct time? They either have a weaker(or even bad) board or they have an extender to continue on to have a better board or (near) game ending state. Your opponent counters your handtraps? They are probably going do their thing as usual and you are probably going to have a bad time. Its really not that interesting once you know where to handtrap I find. Maybe that's the thing: The journey of learning is fun, but once you know, you just chalk it up as business as usual.
Lets be real here: Lower tiered decks are lower tiered for a reason. You might be able to get some wins in, especially against the top tiered stuff. But is that happening because you are good player, is it because you were playing against a weaker player, or did your opponent not have a way to deal with your strategy? I am not trying knock players down and their fave rogue decks, but I do want to stress that top 2 with Celtic Guardian Control is a lot less impressive when the tournament was locals, only had about 30 players, and only four rounds. Yeah, Blackwings may be to make that super sweet multi-negate board, but how often does it actually happen, relative to more competitive decks. Blue Eyes might be better now than it ever was, but again, is it actually a good deck in the grand scheme of things? Is it consistent enough?
I am going to sound hypocritical for a moment. I think engines are fine, but the outcomes for a lot them are problematic. You might end up having "one" card combo starters that can either give a big monster/removal or near unexhaustive engine of card advantage. I think the pay off is too good for some of them. Again, I love the idea of mixing engines, but I don't like what they lead to in modern ygo.
Some cards today feel they are designed to be hard or punish you for trying interacting with your opponent. Stuff like Raye coming back if the mecha form is removed, Shuraig not targetting so you can't just bait out his banishing effect when he is summoned, most of Eldlich's archetype cards, Destroyer Phoenix Enforcer, some of the Numeron cards. It gets to the point where you need specific answers to deal with some these cards, which is kinda fine, if it wasn't for the strength of these cards to begin with.
Personally, I believe that a "diverse" metagame is not necessarily indictive a healthy game. Sure it is better than T0 format, but the whole mantra of "everything is broken, so nothing is" really does not translate well into card games. Games where you are expected to not always have the cards you need for a given moment. Can you believe there are people out there the unironically believe that players who do not draw out their needed handtraps are bad? On the first five cards?
It could really help if Konami had more formats to play in. No, Rush Duels does not count, cause you cannot use your collection from the original game. It is its own game with its own product.
I feel I gave the game a decent chance for about four months and actually tried to learn what is or isn't good. Again, this is all referring to Master Duel, so I am VERY VERY ignorant on how to TCG is exactly, but people's reactions to that Mystic Mine deck are not really instilling me with confidence lol.
I definitely liked it at times when games were grindy and less locking my opponent out or going for the kill after blasting their board. Winning by the latter two really does not excite me that much. It is not very engaging for me.
These are not just a YGO problems also, lot of card games I tried out for throughout the years have a chunk of these issues, and I am just getting extremely frustrated with a lot these reoccurring problems I keep seeing. Its why I been thinking about looking into a finished "living" card game instead. Or make my own card game. With blackjack.
Totally agree! back then, it was back and forth long duels because decks were not depending on combos to work ; Only a thematic/and combination of few cards! Few searchers/enablers ; Tier0 decks were banned after a maximum 2 months ....
Have you tried Smash Up, by any chance? It's pretty fun. Then again, I only really play with friends, sh maybe you can have similar problems. But overall I find it enjoyable.
@@kharimsteeve7224 old school yugioh was a pile of samey cards and the game depended on sacky one offs
You already responded to this in a previous discussion video: Hand traps are less interesting forms of interaction than set cards. Bluffing and overextending are concepts the outside viewer can understand and makes the game compelling to try, whereas the intricacies of hand trap ratios and when to use them require memorizing hundreds of complicated meta cards and meta combos and the other player doesn't have any information about your counterplays.
Modern YGO appeals to dedicated/veteran players. For everyone else, the forms of interaction are annoying and the learning curve is too high to start having fun.
Thank you for making this distinction.
Nobody forces you to play competitive yugioh to learn
@@empeeor3354 You need to play "competitive" in order to get to play at all
@@vileluca what? That makes 0 sense, you can play with a group of friends and you are not forced to run meta decks
i hate that in order to keep up with other players, you have to have the same like about 10-20 maindeck-cards and 5-10 extradeck-cards that everybody uses and every endboard looks about the same. it makes the game boring as hell and nothing feels unique
"Modern Yu-Gi-Oh Isn't As Bad as You Think!"
Yeah, there's so much variety. You either:
- build an unbreakable board
- break an unbreakable board
- get your combo going
- not let your opponent's combo going
- lock your opponent from playing
- get locked from playing
Ahh, ain't it great
I think my biggest issue with Yu-Gi-Oh that has been there from the very beginning is how hopeless a game can feel. I am referring to a situation where your opponent has gone first and even if you do have good interruption they set up a board you know you can't break. It feels so demoralizing when you know, "Well, there's nothing I can do.". Same goes for early Yu-Gi-Oh. Well my opponent has a card I can't get rid of,"Well, guess I'll scoop." I do really enjoy low-tier Yu-Gi-Oh of any era because that's where I find the game to be the most fun. I personally only play Yu-Gi-Oh on the side while Vanguard is my main game because Vanguard only has this happen every 1 in 20 games because there is almost always something you can still do.
Any way to play vanguard online? That sounds like a good game.
I just started playing again a year ago and have found there's so many ways to play. I love the fact I can just play three structure decks and have a blast. Or spend my time building an awesome meta deck. If you don't like a style of play don't play it. That's what makes yugioh so awesome and versatile.
The best part of modern yugioh is variety. No matter who you are you will find a deck that cliques with you. If you like slow decks the options are endless, you could go paleo frogs, or guru control or Dinomorphia and so on. Every single one of the decks in this specific group have unique advantages and match-ups.
There is an archetype based on Romance of the Three Kingdoms. There is an archetype based on Dante's Inferno! (Good thing this isn't the late 90's anymore...)Truly, modern Yugioh, whether these archetypes are any good or not, the stylish aesthetic cannot be matched, as far as I am concerned.
And yet modern yugioh has no variety. Just look at master duels where like 80% of the decks are all swordsouls with the same stupid combo over and over.
@@shonenhikada9254 The issue with master duel is that it's a ranked format where the only incentive is to win and move up ranks. So only the best decks are picked. Also master duel's banlist is completely broken and is horribly balanced for a best of 1 format. When playing casually the decks are usually diverse as winning is not as prioritized.
@@shonenhikada9254 master duel uses a crappy outdated banlist from the OCG. Actual TCG play is far more variant and balanced
I agree that "bad" decks can extend or build better boards now because of modern yugioh with its generic extra deck and splashable engines. It helps raise the ceiling of these decks and can even play through some interruptions. My current charmer deck now plays the Adventure package, Dogmatika engine, and Branded which allows me to still setup boards and play through handtraps. Since there's so many tech and staples for all situations unlike a few years ago, there is now a penalty for investing too much on a board because of the handtraps and go-second cards. Yugioh has never been this diverse in all my time I've played.
I am a certified Yugiboomer, played in 2003 onward. I don't think the modern game is bad, though it is a radical departure of what it once was. I do think that in general, it would be a BETTER game if it were slower and had more back-and-forth, but it's still a good game as it is.
Yeah a game is only fun to watch and play when there’s a back and forth and possibility for a turn around. When checkmate is set by turn 2 it’s pretty anticlimactic.
Same. I don't mind modern YGO, I just prefer classic YGO more.
You can still have back and forth if you play against a deck near the level of your own tbh I experience it many times in locals
I honestly am more a fan of old Yu-Gi-Oh! Style because decks had more heart in them. Like you got a feel for your opponent’s personality or their passions by the decks they built, as well as enjoying truly getting to see how your two decks full strength is over time in a back and forth duel.
Now? Far too easy to trap your opponent into being unable to do anything by the end of turn one and having no way to turn it around.
Just heartless cold logic that makes me feel cheated out of any ability to enjoy a duel and that my opponent feels less of a true duelist and more of a fake duelist looking for a cheap win to laugh at me for and get bragging rights about.
Needless to say, I find Master Duel very frustrating for this as the only way I can even hang in there with a Magikey deck is to run TWO Skill Drains AND a damn Summon Limit.
I hate using cards like that, but it’s the only way to give myself a fighting chance against these cheap win seeking “jerks”, to avoid trouble with the censor people….
Classic just has vibes that modern can't offer. Modern got to a point where I can pull out my phone and do something else while the other guy playing solitaire.
Almost treating the game like it's a mobile p2w throw away five minutes type of deal.
I mean the problem is, you shouldn't be required to have hand traps to be able to play, what if you have them but don't draw them? You have no outs your turn comes and you can't do anything if your hand isn't good enough to break the board
You act like this isn't something that happens in literally every card game in existence.
Play bad cards, expect to have bad games.
Play good cards, expect to have good games. There's nothing more to it.
The thing about people complaining about modern yugioh, they think "old school yugioh" is "playground yugioh"
What I love about modern yugioh is the focus on the extra deck. The whole concept of the extra deck is unique to yugioh and it's definitely my favorite part. I dont think any other card game had anything that is as fun or unique as the extra deck
In addition to that, something like Dogmatika’s definitely make this unique as well. Like they don’t “need” the extra deck but need the extra deck at the same time.
I like the Extra Deck a lot too. One thing I think hurt it though, was how each new Extra Deck type was introduced as a straight up: "Better version" of the one before. Which felt like "Shiny new toy" syndrome.
I do like the extra deck as well but the amount of summons from it in one turn is ridiculous and having 2 of the same op monster on the board, that needs to go.
I think something everyone forgets when discussing YGO is that the evolution was necessary. The game had already changed rules multiple times before the worldwide release and even with that, on the trajectory it was on, it had no where really to go. Statistical power creep had largely hit the ceiling, effect complexity was the only course to take. The real issue with Classic YGO was that it largely was set up for a definitive end, it wasn't set up for ongoing releases, something Modern YGO is. I totally agree on turn length taking the place of turn count. I think that's something that's missed in comparing YGO to other games that have experienced power creep. Your observation is the same as my own, it's just the time being placed into a different position.
i got back into yugioh a few weeks ago so I’m fresh, but I’m loving it. I used to play in high school then basically forgot all about yugioh until a dear friend begged me to play master duel with him. I agreed and never looked back. Turns out I’m surprisingly decent at yugioh, who knew! Unsurprisingly though, it was tough learning all the new concepts of yugioh. My head was spinning at first but I love that all the new cards and combos allow for self expression. I love that even when I’m not playing a meta deck I can still build a deck around an archetype and there will be enough on theme cards that can help you supe up your deck. For example I love playing windwitches. Probably not meta viable at all, but I have been kicking ASS with it on master duel. I’ve tuned up the deck 5 times and it’s only gotten more and more powerful without me having to remove the core windwitch archetype. I don’t feel like. I can say the same about Pokémon or Magic. Also I feel that despite modern yugioh being complicated I do feel that it’s like riding a bike, once you truly learn Al the new stuff… you’re not likely to forget.
My only real hot take is that, coming from Pokémon tcg (where an out of turn response is practically unheard of) I largely don’t understand what people mean when they say that playing yugioh is like solitaire. Maybe that’s what competitive/tournament matches which is too bad if true, a good chunk of thr matches I’ve played have been extremely fluid, dynamic and responsive. However I think that, at least in casual matches, link monsters are the true slog of yugioh. Link monsters and thier combos seem to grind all momentum to a halt. Unless you have a good hand trap or a way to prevent your opponent from special summoning multiple times, you might as well break out the camping gear.
Tl:Dr Yugioh has been incredibly good to me in the small time I’ve been playing as a returner, but if I had one wish: I would banish all link monsters out of existence.
I think link monster are one of the better things that happened to the game. I think we should go back to a master ruler similliar to master rule 4 where the link arrows actually were important
It doesn't take skill to be good at this game. Most cards today are broken and carry you even if you make massive misplays.
@@shonenhikada9254 cope. Skill issie
I wish people wouldn't discount people who don't like the current state of the game as "Yugiboomers". I've been playing competitively since 2011, and I've enjoyed many of the formats up until extra linking became a thing, which pushed away a lot of remaining players that stayed for links. As someone who isn't pining for the days of Gemini Elf beatdown, and actually played stuff like Satellarknights, the game is still way too fast in its current state.
If I had a dollar for everytime they called me Yugi boomer I would be rich... 😅 But yeah got bullied too
Perfect. The game is too fast now, it was good until like 2017
Fire fists, Bujins, photon, sylvans, fire king, mermail, batlin boxers, spellbooks.... the game was balanced back then.
@@kharimsteeve7224 harpies, traptrix
The thing that I want most from modern yugioh would be to let older decks to stand a chance.
@James Barton-Johns thank you !! I firmly believe that they should too. I think it would be very cool for the game and might give a chance to further balance this game .
Wouldnt they sell less though? I mean, if they were to revive an archetype, would they most not likely reboot it? Printing new cards so a deck has only 5-10% of it be older cards?
@@Folfire I’m just an idiot but
1. Not everything has to be about money, and this can be seen as a win for players and new players especially
2. They already do this to a degree, just not as good as it can be I think
3. I think “rebooting” a deck/archetype is kinda goes along of what I’m saying
4. Not every player wants to play meta but casual anime like duels
5. Money can be made , there’s already an audience for this and could encourage players to revisit and buy cards if done and marketed right
6. Konami are always gonna be making new cards and powercreep to sell , so I don’t see what’s wrong with just supporting older cards/decks better… I would argue it would boost sales on top of what they already do because a lot of old players want to relive their old fav decks/card if you get what I’m saying
We should be giving decks their cards back slowly to see what impact they have on the meta. An example would be Gateway of the Six which is currently limited, we can semi - limit the card and see what happens, if it's nothing, then unlimit the card.
They do occasionally give older archetypes more support from time to time to varying degrees of success (Cyber Dragons/Cyberdarks being a very recent example) but not nearly as extensively as they should be
There is barely any interaction even with hand traps, and those interactions are just negates usually. Old school Yu-Gi-Oh had it so you had to play conservatively like you may not want to attack due to a facedown card, now you want to play as aggressive and as fast as possible and do everything you absolutely because next turn you can just be otk'd.
This. One of the most frequent arguments I see is that interaction does exist, and on a dictionary-definition scale, it is, but it's like if you participate in...let's say a backflipping competition, and then you break your opponent's legs before the day of the competition. It's rare to see a deck decisively break a board rather than just stop it from forming in the first place.
Whether or not you'd win a game in old school YuGiOh solely relied on how many overpowered cards you could draw.
Take one single look at older YuGiOh without being biased for once and you'll see how broken it actually was.
@@aRetailArchitect I have played a lot of old school yu-gi-oh and played with a lot of if not all of the good cards from that era. Yeah there was a lot of great cards like pot of greed, but then you would draw into a man eater bug and a witch of the black forest, now pot of greed gives you cards you can special summon easily and then extend combos out another 5-10 steps. But again, now you want to play as fast as possible and make boards that prevent your opponent from playing. The "good ol' days" had it where your battle phase was actually important, there was no realistic way to get 5(now 6) monsters on your side of the field in one turn, tribute summoning and flip effect monsters were actually a relevant mechanic outside monarchs and sub terror control decks, trap cards were used. The best card for a long time was MST, but now we have things like DPE which can destroy ANY card every turn on a quick effect, the power scales are not even close. The dragon rulers was an oppressive deck but compared to thunder dragons it's not even a comparison on which deck is better. The point of the game used to be bring your opponents life to 0 and make sure your opponent can't bring yours down to 0, now it's essentially make sure your opponent can't play the game and use hand traps to not let your opponent get in a place where they don't let you play the game.
I like modern YGO, but still think you could have approached this little bit better.
Most of the "problems" of modern YGO comes from the approach of the players to the game.
An example are those who say "a single handtrap can kill a deck" fail to realize how almost ANY interruption could have killed that deck, and without interruptions that deck would become what they hate.
You kind of make a good point. If a deck that is considered low tier tries to go for their combo that probably is their best play but dies to Ash Blossom, the deck would have died to any other interruption anyway because they may not have any other plays to make if the main combo gets stopped.
@@JuwanBuchanan Which happen to lot of decks like normal summon X then if there's X on the field then can special summon Y from hand and go on....but then there's a card like DPE that completely shutdown that by pop X out which leads to the next thing...."engine" .Anything that free and doesn't eat your normal summon and able to save your *ss or extend the play.
For single handtrap kill the deck, *look at Heroes and that space rock
Except that some decks only dies to specific handtraps not necessarily all of them
@@petiteexplication6249 I'm not talking about handtraps in specific, but interruptions in general.
If a deck dies to Dimensional Shifter, an specific handtrap, it will also die to Macro Cosmos.
Ignoring the difference between both cards of course.
you either gets interrupted and get OTKed next turn
or you dont interrupted and make a unbeatable board that your opponent cant get over it (unless they draw the out, but thats luck based, not skill based)
gotta love this shitty ass game
I work at a hobby shop. The slowest day we have is YGH game night. It speaks volume to how much ppl dislike modern yugioh
When people complain about modern yugioh by saying something like "old school yugioh" they often dont even really remember old school yugioh. They remember playground yugioh. Those are completely different stories.
No, when people say "old school yugioh" they mean before VRAINS. This ain't 2014; we're in 2022 bruh.
Yeah, I definitely agree.
I really got into Yugioh when the Synchro's were first introduced. Back then we used to keep cards in our hand so we did not get wrecked after overextending. Do I miss that time period? Yeah. I kinda miss doing basic Dragunity normal summon, equip, summon, Synchro, equip, summon, make Stardust Dragon, Colossal Fighter, or Thought Ruler Archfiend and then keeping another couple of monsters in my hand so I could summon again the next turn.
But I also do like modern Yugioh where so many decks actually do have plays that they can make. I only play rogue and casual decks atm because most meta decks aren't fun to me. I might be getting into Therion but probably just Therion Plant/Aromage since I just like playing Aromages.
The decks I actively play at the moment are Synchron Stardust Dragon Assault Mode, Red Dragon Archfiend, and Dragonmaid Branded. I played Nekroz Auroradon combo before the banlist. And I still have things for Crusadia, Lyrilusc XYZ, Springan Therion, Altergeist, Guru Control, Red-Eyes Rank 7 Spam, and Orcust laying in the back. The only true meta decks that I played when they were meta were Nekroz and Orcust both because I loved how they played when they released. I played Orcust before it was meta simply because I love the art, I loved the playstyle but I haven't played it since Harp got unjustly banned and I will play it again only if Harp Horror makes a return (WHICH IT SHOULD, DAMNIT. ORCUST HARP HORROR HAS BEEN BANNED FOR 870 DAYS. X days until the release of Harp Horror.)
I have seen 3 local wins with 3 different decks. Dragonmaid(Pure), Synchron Stardust Dragon Assault Mode, and Nekroz Auroradon. All rogue decks. Rogue decks these days have so many things to offer. Even casual/fun tier decks like Red Dragon Archfiend can make cool stuff. The meta decks aren't THAT much better than the rogue decks either. It's just a difference in consistency most of the time, I feel. Less bricky/less vulnerable to handtraps. Nekroz can still shut down an entire Despia field and bounce back Branded fusion monsters without triggering Mirrorjade.
As a og duelist, I respectfully disagree. When hand traps became a thing...? On arv V? I can't be excited if the game is that fast.
Considering Kuriboh is the grandfather of all handtraps...Gen 1. DM era. So uh...adapt yugiboomer
@@RinaShinomiyaVal how does the kuriboh argument make sense when back then it wasn’t mandtory to run kuriboh in every single deck. Now you almost HAVE to run ash/called/droplet etc in damn near every deck just to break a board with Barrone/savage/whatever other degenerate unbreakable omni negate board. And even then it’s not guaranteed you will draw into those and even successfully break that board they can set up in ONE turn. It’s not even a close comparison LMAO
It's pretty bad when you HAVE to have certain cards in your deck just to stop other things, it kills the creativity of the game.
the issue with older decks in modern yugioh such as blackwings is that even with the new support the deck still dies to a single handtrap, it doesn't matter if it can do a huge combo when a single handtrap causes the deck to shit it self and it stops working.
Well, your payoff is essentially locking your opponent out of the game, so I'd say it's a fair trade-off.
I like neither hand traps or Solitare. So Yu Gi Oh has gotten really unfun for me.
XYZ summoning was the last new mechanic I cared to learn. But since then the game has become completely unrecognisable. It's far too fast, there's far too many cards to really get a grasp on what your opponent is even doing; and I'm an adult now without the time to dedicate to learning about these hundreds upon hundreds of new archetypes/cards and what each and every one of them does. You just cannot hop on Master Duel as a classic player without being paired with somebody who summons 3 pendulums and 2 Link monsters in the first turn with card text that is too overwhelming to read.
I think they really need to invest in new official formats and allow players to enjoy the game in different ways. Like the Online Pokemon TCG companion app has a system where you can duel people with very strict limitations in place like only using structure/theme decks. As someone that was a fan all the way upto XYZ summoning it sucks that I just have zero desire to come back to the game because of how ridiculous it's gotten.
The music is a little too loud on this one, but al always, the contents of these discussion videos are great! Keep it up!!
It’s loud because it goes HARD!!! 🔥🔥🔥
As someone who was a long time MTG player swapping over to yugioh, while I hate the “solitaire turns” I still enjoy the speed and complexity of the game. It feels a lot like the legacy format in MTG. Every card game has its pro’s and cons
One thing that I gotta hand it to Konami is that the archetypes show a ton of really strong creativity with their concepts. They're moving a lot of the most creative stuff over to Rush Duel, though.
There just aren't enough cards/decks that sufficiently pull the brakes, and ones that do usually don't actually outgrind due to how easy starters are. A big reason why a deck like Sky Striker is so popular (moreso than other cute girl decks) is because it is a relatively competitive deck that can appeal to people who like longer games with more focus on resource management. Different people have different things that they find fun but most of the decks appeal to the same type of play styles.
I see older formats as a completely different game with similar rules, technically we can use the same old cards from 20 years ago, but is not the same game anymore.
True , but it’s been two decades. U really think that yeh game would be the same as it was back then? I’d say no
I think it helps to remember that Yugioh has *always* been a degenerate mess in some form or another. "Slower" doesn't necessarily mean "more balanced". If someone nowadays gets out two or three omni negates, with a Solemn card set, and an Ash in hand on their opening turn, you're probably not playing the game. If someone Yata locked you, Mass Driver'd you with Frogs, or discarded your entire hand, back in the day, you weren't playing either.
What I personally don't like is that choosing to go first or second should NOT matter this much at the point that if you have a going first deck and you happen to go second you basically lost the game from the start.
I think it should only give a small buff if you have a deck that can take advantage of it because right now it's pretty frustrating.
I'm a totally new Yugioh player who was introduced to the game by master duel. I technically played as a kid but I played in the way a lot of kids did, with partial decks, using incorrect rules from the anime and not fully understanding how anything worked. I'm a long time magic player and was for a long time put off from yugioh because of the mentality of "Oh yugioh is just solitaire, there's no interaction, you're just trying to kill the opponent in one turn." but I've found the game to be extremely fun and incredibly interactive. The skill with yugioh is very much determined by knowing your opponent's deck, knowing what handtraps you run and how to use them most effectively. I was also shocked by how good the balance between extra deck monster types is and how many different strategies feel fun and powerful and make use of wildly different tools. Modern yugioh is extremely fun and honestly the worst thing about it for me right now is the small but extremely vocal part of the community who seem to outright hate the game as it exists and complain constantly.
Nothing more satisfying than watching an opponent 10 minute combo turn 1
I think, at the very least, we can all agree that the speed of the game has increased significantly and I enjoy the slower games. Today's meta your probably drawing 1-2 times before someone loses, this eliminates a lot of cards and decks from meta contention. Past deck building built decks under the assumption that they will draw half of their deck. This is how decks got consistency. youd have a 3 card combo that you build around, and we used draw cards like pot of duality and allure to find them. Now with only getting one turn to be able to do anything, every deck needs a one card starter. Their is no waiting on modern Yu-Gi-Oh.
1:33 Yeah back in the day those interactions were done with an old card type called "Trap Cards".
These were cards you set on your turn and were activated on your opponents turn. I know super slow right?
Much better to just add those abilities to monsters, A.K.A. "Hand Traps"
Older Yugioh actually use to have different card types for specific things.
Monsters to attack, Spells to change the state of the game, Traps to play on your opponents turn.
Now every monster is also a spell or trap card.......or both!
And special summoning is now normal while normal summoning is special.
And tribute summoning is basically dial-up internet.
Yugioh hasnt changed for the better it did improve but it had far more set backs then steps forward.
the deck vomiting and contstant "you cant play" is downright obnoxious.
I actually don’t mind Modern Yugioh. I love all the decks and all the unique ways to play. You don’t get that in old Yugioh days where everyone played Pot of Greed and Mirror Force and all that. Yeah, you get those people that set up multiple hand traps and omni negate boards, but honestly, that’s just going to be the meta of the game. Like, I love modern Yugioh but hate the meta, if that makes sense. I don’t mind hand traps as long as there aren’t too many, I understand their place. And the only time that Yugioh is Solitaire is when you play against a twenty omni negate board with Scythe or you play against Flower Cardian. And those matches are few and far between depending on where you go. Whereas old Yugioh, every game lasts at least 20 turns and most of the time you’re sitting there taking hits because your opponent has Ginzo and you have no way around that. How is that a better game? I don’t know. I think the difference is how many people know/play the meta. Like, back in 2002 there wasn’t much internet or anything, so people knew what cards were good but didn’t really know the “meta” of the game, so they’d play with whatever they found to be their favorite cards. Which is totally fine. Then in 2022 with the internet people are more aware of the ever changing meta game and netdecking. It’s a little frustrating because you know most people who made their deck didn’t come up with the original idea and are just following the trend because it gets them the most wins. It’s no different when you go back to play 2005 format. Everyone knows the metagame for that now, so if anything it’s just as cancer as the current metagame, just 20 turns slower. I don’t blame the game getting faster. It’s just an inevitability of games like this to make them more exciting. Just that more people are aware of the meta and play it because it wins and in turn people who don’t play the meta and just want to have fun lose every game and are told that to win they need to add these meta cards and if they don’t then they’ll keep losing. That’s just the way it is when you play the TCG or even Master Duel. Which is why I try to stick to casual fun with friends.
I still prefer Edison format.
Yeah, YGO' core hasn't changed much.
but today, everyone plays, Apollousa, Dragoon, Borreload, Accesscode, needlefiber, DPE, etc etc. So the main deck may be "different", the extra decks are damn near identical and the end boards are VERY similar. so the argument of everyone playing PoG and Mirror Force is a moot one. Cuz the issue still exists today, just in the extra deck.
The amount of decks that there are now is undeniable. If a new player were to learn the rules and join the game they would eventually find a deck that calls to them. For any reason they could pick 1 or 2 from the hundreds of decks there are. You like locking out the game, play trap control decks. Want to finish you opponent really quickly and unexpectedly, here are these fats otk decks. Even if they are a retuning player and want to play Black wings they can do so because old decks get tons of support almost every year. Each deck definitely now has their own goal on how to win.
Wish that were true for Worm's. Pretty sure their last support was 10+ year's ago.
Very well thought out video Paul. You nailed every point I thought of and hadn't thought of....I really liked the part about when you mentioned freedom of expression and yeah, hadn't thought about that...but as Walter from Breaking Bad said, "you're goddamn right"
Yugioh is a lot about freedom of expression and I think that's why I gravitate to your channel and others like it; who dabble in experimenting and tinkering with the niche premises of decks and not always what they're capable of - but what they can be capable of if tweaked a bit differently...
The crazy amount of shenanigans I've seen in this game...irl and with Farfa's table 500 is incredible. Truly a test of time all memes aside I really appreciate this side of the community hussle to put the time and effort for making vids like these.
One other thing
The part about torrential tribute and gorz....yeah absolutely...we always had to watch out for them back in the day. Torrential a bit more relevant now...but yeah Evenly it's become the new board wipe next to lightning storm (rageki again) and Nibiru. There will always be something new to add to the game.
Whether it needs that or not idk...very fast gameplay (usually) and one of the things I admire about it more than any other card game.
As a casual player that just jumped on the games about a year ago coming straight from the old school vanilla days I made my first modern blue eyes deck and I got to say after I took the time to learn the newer mechanics i felt more like kiaba in modern times being able to get 2 blue eyes on the field in one turn than I did back in the day, that being said I’m not becoming a huge fan of erratas though because it holds me back from going building the old meta decks to somewhat experience the old metas ive missed which is why I wish they would just print retrains I think it’s called
My only complaint is the price. Good cards are too damn expensive. (I’m from asia i don’t play ocg since i cant read japanese and the ocg sucks rn, tcg card prices here are almost always 3x the original price)
Also, you’re so on point my guy, modern yugioh is so fun specially when it comes to problem solving. It roots from your deck making to your general gameplay. It makes your brain work and for me thats what makes modern yugioh fun!
This game shouldn't be pay to win, because it's makes the winners the people with the biggest bank accounts
@@ashfuller3480 it's been like that since 2017.
@@TobikunOuO I think longer, I did that myself back when I played, I had just got some inheritance when my grandmother died and blew it all on cards
Ocg is still doing fine even with people playing splights. Splights is a very strong deck but there are a lot of hate cards to the whole deck.
@@keio4456 exactly punk won a big tournament they had there
Back in elementary school, my playground rules were wild. The most notable one was we could summon big beefy guys by sacrificing life points as a tribute, since we all didn't have good cards or a bunch of cards, we still had to play. So if we wanted to summon dark magician we had to sacrifice 2000 LP. So each 1000 was a tribute. It had a risk factor to it but it got bricks out of the hand. I bet there is a card like that now but I miss that made up aspect and just having goofing off fun
Interesting. We played with a mulligan. With your original 5 cards, you could discard any of them a redraw that many.
I still keep the rule for my yugioh cube. Although now I make people shuffle them back into the deck instead of leaving them in the grave.
So basically have Mausleom of the Emperor at all times?
@@DaemonRayge looked up that card, pretty much yeah. It's just like this card.
This definitely gave me a lot to think about, even though I have reasons to disagree with almost everything. What it ultimately boils down to is that these ideas apply in "Theory", but it often doesn't end up being that way in practice.
Hand Traps for instance. The idea of them allowing interactions is a nice idea, but in practice, they either lock your opponent completely out of his play (Which ends up being most casual players interactions with hand traps), or the opponent has so MANY combo pieces that they can steamroll through the handtrap anyway. Or you don't draw the hand-trap or enough of them.
Part of the issue is that there's no room for error in modern meta. In more casual play, in the lower tier decks. If you don't draw the out that turn, you can probably at least play defense until you get out something useful. But if you're playing against a high level deck, unless you get the hand-trap THAT turn, you won't live to see your next turn.
When people complain about "What's a turn 3?" I think the larger point is that in practice, it's more like "what's a "third counter?"
Like, the image of the condensced duel makes me think of Yugi vs Kaiba in Battle City. Where one turn would be filled with:
"I activate this!"
"Well I activate this!"
"Well I activate this!"
Well I activate this!"
And they were going counter for counter.
But even watching the 2019 Worlds, which was two evenly matched high level decks, there was maybe one interaction. And then the deck would win on turn one or two.
Besides the unaffordable cards at times in yugioh and untimely reprints the cards and decks themselves I think are pretty even at this point. You can beat meta decks with rogue and tier 2 decks if you know your deck and scout the meta well. So currently besides a few cards the game is currently in a pretty good place.
good luck trying to beat drytron without handtraps or albaz for that matter lol.
Thanks for the video. So quick background, I'm a long- time magic player coming over to yugioh via master duel, and before that I hadn't played since like 2004. So obviously, big changes. I think the best similarity between the speed of Yu-Gi-Oh compared to Magic is actually the Vintage format. That's the one where you can play black lotus and time walk and all these broken old cards. The key thing in vintage is actually that there's still a ton of interaction, it just happens in dramatically fewer turns, which is exactly one of your points about modern Yu-Gi-Oh. So if anyone is comparing card games, looking at Vintage Magic is, at least for me, a really good comparison to understand how you can jam so many interactions and game actions into so few turns and still have a balanced and interactive game
I 100% agree on your point about handtraps.
I just got back into the TCG when Master Duel came out (quit in GX as a competitive player) and it took me a LONG time to realize this point.
Turn 1 modern YuGiOh is not solitaire with hand traps. You have multiple ways to interact with and in some cases, completely shut down your opponent’s plays on their own turn.
Paul is THE most rational and logical YugiTuber around. He always brings the most cohese and on point discussions to light. He does not takes sides, he only sides with The Logic. What makes sense and that's it. To the point he defends both "sides" (as I said it is not exactly sides, he just takes what makes sense from both amd exposes it in a very balanced and reasonable way)
I think what changed about this game is the floodgates and negate boards became to prominent over time the hard part is finding casual players in person or online who enjoy the game the same way i do.
Not wanting too play competitive but more creatively i'm more interested in a cool slug fest with no interruptions prioritized in deck building and just seeing what unique stuff i can come up with.
I feel like this was more common in zoodiac format when i was playing fire kings more so than today even when i play the best deck the best build and ratios and all of that winning doesn't feel fun there no rush like 5D's before Tele-DaD :(
Is it really a defense of modern Yugioh that you have to have, as you said, 3/5 of your starting cards be hand traps?
yes, also 2 hand traps not 3, it's just nice to have 3, & some decks have cut back on that for the most recent format, but back in the day traps mattered, having 2-3 traps in hand could stop the opponent's best plays for consecutive turns , just like having a truly impactful & well placed hand trap can now , for anyone missing that part of the game from old yugioh, hand traps are what gives the modern game that exact same feeling & aspect so that it isn't missing , nibiru feeling like torrential was a perfect example
@@Marcusjnmc People may like that all 3 card types exist and are used and not just 2.
@@GrandHarrier trap cards are still used, but they don't play the same way they used to be played & feel different, they're used in dedicated trap decks with in some cases 20 or more in the deck that work vs boards with combinations of trap effects or as hard counters to specific things/very high impact effects in lower numbers in the side deck for going first, except Infinite Impermanence which is used more commonly & is also a hand trap.
@@Marcusjnmc That was the whole point of trap cards. And they were balanced by not being usable the turn they were set, and they needed to meet their activation conditions so until then they were just sitting there waiting to be popped by an MST or Heavy Storm. Hand traps throw that whole balance out the window. And those kinds of effects like negates should have been left to trap cards and not given to monsters.
@@shapular the outs were limited on the forbidden list , & there are also outs to hand traps, which are also limited , most hand traps also have activation conditions responding to a specific game state or action, keeping that same feeling of limited response & play around the reaction lines of play that were a staple part of old yugioh, without hand traps the game would feel way less like old yugioh.
Modern Yugioh is the musical equivalent of You Suffer by Napalm Death
I like both modern and old yugioh. I find going second to be fun, seeing if i can solve the puzzle of breaking a board. And if icant well gg i gave it a shot. Unless its like some Rhongo Bongo bs
You dont play modern yugiho to win, you play to stop your opponent to play so you win.
And 1/3 of card (generic trap) are almost useless.
That right there is my biggest issue with modern YuGiOh . And to be clear if someone enjoys modern YuGiOh that is fine , I am not there to tell them what you should or should not do. But when the main goal of YuGiOh became “don’t let your opponent play”, as little interaction as possible , hence all the hand traps, all the negates, that is when I checked out
Love the rock/jass fusion tracks in the background!
That wasn't a shot at the content lol. I love your take on the state of the game as well.
I just really don’t like to have to wait for 10+ minutes for my opponent to play through their own deck in their first turn.
Even though I get my ass kicked often, I still enjoy the game because I'm a lot more open to suggestions than I was like 8 years ago last time I played.
you forgot *This is a paid advertisement for Konami* lol
Talk about interactions and hand traps and we are back to the identity convo and how you are forced to play those certain cards at 3 max all in your deck or you cannot do anything.
We have a saying in MTG and that is if you cannot win by your turn six, if i remember correctly, the deck needs work. Like just straight up drawing hands and playing till your sixth turn is all i would do to test my decks a lot to see if it could deal 20 points of damage and how many monsters can be summoned. The back and forth response to what players do can be ridiculous on there at times as well. Each game is different and there is a reason why other games have not changed tempo down to one turn otks which is a good thing. There has to be a way to limit decks but still keep it quick, i used to hear that turn 3 was the turn to end on, idk why people would wanted to make it a 1 turn otk 3 turns is pretty quick and is quicker then back when it started by a good bit.
As an avid and successful Blackwing player since Duelist Genesis I can tell you they have always been on my list for good decks that can wing when they aren’t dealt with.
Look at the banlist throughout the years and see how many cards are and have been Blackwing cards. They are incredibly powerful when they player knows the deck and how to play yugioh.
But those cards are not the banlist because of blackwing players lol.
Cards like gofu were getting abused by halq decks etc. Not because they were broken in their own archetype
So the problem I see, is that if you have, for example those 3 handtraps in your hand, that means your deck has to be built in a way that almost any pair of 2 cards apart from staples will give you access to combo that will bring your end board to fruition. Which means cards which can be useful in the middle to late game becomes useless, as there is no middle and late game at all. It’s just early game combo to end game. So a lot of nice cards just become useless which always sucks.
I’m legitimately curious how different yugioh would be if it had a resource system and or the Initiative system of Legends of Runeterra
if you had actual resources to manage mainly imo Special summon limits the game would slow down, be more balanced and far more interactable.
It would become a fun game.
@@TheFallinhalo its called Nibiru
@@RinaShinomiyaVal Hand traps are not the answer.
it reeks of the "Just draw the out" excuse so many people come up with.
Modern yugioh is objectively bad and demonstrably predatory on fans.
My problem with modern Yu GI oh is that the player that's go second have so much disadvantage, he only have access to 6 cards and no mulligan to try to sculpt a decent hand.
Hmm, you may have touched on one of the more reasonable aspects that could really help a second turn player fight back against a prepared board. A mulligan as a "reward" for going second may actually work quite well (though in some respects, perhaps too well.)
The thing that I detest about modern yu gi oh is actually that fact that you have to run hand traps. You mention the positives of having an ash, imperm and nibiru in the hand, but I don’t want to have to run the cards. I think if archetypes got ARCHETYPE SPECIFIC hand traps, like if imperm had that negate only if you could reveal a cyber dragon in the hand. That way decks could have something specific that makes them stronger in going second, as opposed to some needing to go first. That’s my take
Forgot to add: you’d need to have a secondary effect to the hand trap, so it’s a combo extension too. Allowing you to benefit from going first too, so less emphasis is placed on going first or second
I don't know if it's just an aspect of current state, but on Master Duel it seems sad that a game with thousands of cards gets squeezed down to a few dozen cards i see over and over and over again
Numerons, Swordsouls, Tri-Brigade, Eldlich, Igknight Go-First Burn, True King of All Calamities
I am always legitimately surprised when I see a deck that does not fall into those above categories. An actual Destiny Hero deck playing DPE, doesn't bother me. It's thematically appropriate, Predaplants actually using Verte Anaconda, a pleasant surprise. Madolche Madness, a little annoying, but sure...
In addition, the amount of splashable engines into various most deck types robs a lot of individuality that a deck could have
You are right.... interactions exist, but after a while they feel the same, most of my games are like: Ash this, maxxc that, oh! you have called by the grave, amazing play.... o well.... time to watch 5min. of special summons, thats fun.... also it forces you to fill your deck with these cards in order to even have a chance to play the game and it makes deck building a lot more "stiff" and way less creative, you can't even think of adding more than 42-43 cards because if you do not draw your negates, you can't play the game..... Tbh this game is a mess and it will get worse because Konami doesn't care about the state of the game or players, Konami wants to squeeze you as much as possible with ban lists aimed at that, cards that play the game for you and now even gems...
I actually enjoy modern Yugioh despite being hit with the whole kitchen sink of hand traps and on board negates.
However that is the exact problem with Modern Yugioh, the amount of negates you have to play through is honestly quite ridiculous. This really forces you to play certain decks that have meta relevancy and cards that extend plays but unfortunately a lot of the older archetypes just can't hang.
@@asimhussain8716 I mean Konami has done a good amount of reprinting to keep the game relatively cheap. Like by the end of the year everyone will have a playset of Droplet. But your right, new archetypes aren't the greatest, especially on their own.
Personally what I dislike about modern yugioh is how everything has become too consistent where a single card can generate so many pluses and you end up with first turn boards that you exhaust all your resources on that decide the outcome of the entire duel.
I like the slow build-up of a duel with some footsies at the start until you hit midgame where you then bring out your big plays and boss monsters. And it allows for more opportunities of back and forth gameplay.
If I had to compare modern yugioh to a fighting game it’d be like if every character had a 0-to-death combo and every match is decided on who gets the first punish. I can see it get kinda boring after awhile.
Friendly counter:
The interaction in Yugioh may be high but it doesnt feel good or fun. The person being interacted feels like their cards are just being turned into dead cards, people will say the same about playing against Blue in MTG, being countered sucks so much more than being destroyed.
The one playing the interaction often times may feel like it was boring if they were able to interact too much or just shut down the board building.
I think Digimon has a much better back and forth because stuff is actually allowed to hit the field and get its effects off at least once before the opponent can attempt to destroy it. Something like Dragonball Super has much more sparse counters and in most cases causes stuff to come into play in rest or just negate attacks vs instantly killing a card or negating its effects, it just feels better and more even for both parties.
Deck building: I'm watching this late so I already saw your other video about this and I agree with that sentiment much more than your slightly positive outlook here. What's the point if I'm always just trying to build the same generic end board no matter what deck I build? I'm not playing a blue eyes deck if all the Blue eyes are in the graveyard at the end of the turn.
I can actually half agree with the last point, consistency feels nice, nothing sucks more than top decking a dead card when you have run out of resources. However there is a such thing as too consistent, speed isnt necessarily the issue other card games can end just as fast but you dont feel like your interaction was useless because someone isnt draeing one card full board combos after you've ran out.
Again I'll go to Digimon, first on the consistency it absolutely sucks to not be able to build your stack because you didnt draw the right levels but it feels like Digimon wouldnt be near as fun if I were just able to search the deck or summon from deck on a regular basis. And in terms of speed both games can be just as fast and done within very minimal turns.
I have always played spell counter spellcasters from the very beginning since the Skilled Dark Magician first appeared. Every subsequent iteration of spellcasters was basically not strong at all and simply very slow (except for Breaker the Magical Warrior and the Tempest Magician, which have both been in the Forbidden list at some point). Nowadays, although not meta, Spellcounter Endymion and Mythical Beasts can pull out some wild combos with a little bit of luck, and lock the opponent from playing spells, traps, and monsters. That is both insane and awesome, which really drew me back into the game (and gave me quite some headaches with learning the basics of pendulums and links). However, the speed of the evolution of the game is way too fast. I have stopped playing once again for a couple of months and I'm again lost... So many meta archetypes that pop out of nowhere and not enough time to sit to research them... (I guess that's one of the downsides of adulthood...).
Aint as bad as one may think, but it's as expensive for damn sure.
"Just draw your hand traps 4head" is more of an indictment of the current game than it is a boon.
I'm not a fan of the speed of the game (and/or mechanics) artificially power creeping certain archetypes; main gripe is with Link Monsters not being able to be put in DEF position (absolutely destroyed viability for my Digital Bug deck :( ).
However, I do like that Konami occasionally acknowledges this and generates legacy support for fan-favorite archetypes (Blackwings, Box of Friends, Gaia, etc.) in an attempt to make them somewhat viable strategies.
Totally feel you with the comment about how a random low-tier deck can pop off and do create crazy boards. Back in 2016, if you weren't playing a tier 1-2 deck, it was because it usually just had a flowchart that didn't have many options.
I’m getting back into the game after about a 14 year hiatus and I’m looking to sit down and give the current game a chance. I’ve never been very interested in doing that so this vid gives me some hope!
My problem with the "amount of interactions" being crammed into one turn, is that the player going second can only use their starting hand, while the player going first can potentially use their entire deck, side deck etc.
When games were slower, you had more time to draw your "interactions".
The handtrap thing also makes it so most decks play the same things, so you make the same decisions, if you drew the handtraps to begin with. Makes it feel more like I'm playing UNO or something when we have 10k+ cards in the game.
The point of "Tier 3 or lower decks have access to powerful generic cards now which makes them better and is good for the game" is a double edged sword. It's essentially the same as the "Unlimit Pot of Greed! It will make my Vehicroid deck so much better!" argument. Strong generic cards can obviously make Tier 3 or lower decks stronger but it will also make Tier 1 decks even stronger as they will use those generic power cards even more effectively.
I don't think generic cards are necessarily a bad thing but when cards like Baronne de Fleur and Accesscode Talker are generic and much better than most archetypal boss monsters, it takes away from the identity of most decks and reduces the game to: How efficiently can your deck summon a handful of generic boss monsters?
Im 1996 so im old as Ygo it self. I played it for about what now from first grade to now so like 20 years, and negating your opponents play or losing because you didn't draw 1 of your 15 hand traps pushed ygo from Skill based game to Luck based non interactive game. We need more back-and-forth Master duels lose 90% player base in 2 months so game is bad people have spoken sorry meta sheep's we under stand you spend so much money in this no skill game and its so hard for you to admit that its shit..
I like modern Yugioh, though with how many staples (mostly hand traps) there are that people say you need to run 3 of in your deck, I feel like it guts the individuality of a deck, preventing players from experimenting with less conventional strategies, because the majority don't want to go above 40 cards.
Hmm, I've seen an interesting counter argument to this with the rise of "That Grass looks Greener" decks, which are 60 cards and rely on that 40-card mentality of their opponent to play 1/3 of their deck straight from the graveyard.
@@HighPriestFuneral fair, though with it banned, not many dare try such a large deck.
@@chrisshorten4406 Hah... interesting. In Master Duel it's not banned and now I have to wonder why it is in the normal game if it is set as a balancing tool to make 60 card decks a viable choice.
@@HighPriestFuneral to my understanding, it's because it granted way too much advantage. Master Duel is its own weird beastie.
You are forced to run like 10 OP handtraps just to be able to play the game. That is a problem. For the first 10-13 years(?) you were never forced to run any number of hand traps to be able to play turn 1. And they weren't 1/3 as powerful.
You had to take small steps per turn. And in-between, your opponent had a turn where he could change the game with ANY of his cards in hand. You could not do 30 steps in one turn on EVERY starting hand. This matters because it means the game wasn't decided solely on the 5 cards you drew turn 1, which play themselves to give u a board that ends in 3 OP boss monsters every time
More effects and power really just makes the game more complicated for 0 reason. It doesn't make player decisions more meaningful or better strategically, it just adds a huge knowledge barrier for no reason. So many people are interested in playing Yugi again, but like 1% of them end up actually playing again. Why? Is it JUST because there's new cards? Or because every card has more power than nuclear bomb & has font size of 1 & any of its 3 effects can be activated from anywhere anytime ?
I enjoy that you have gripes about something you love, but you also bring up counter arrangements to those points to give a better analysis.
One of my favorite things about the game today is how archetypes mash together both new and old. It makes for very interesting mechanics and sometimes a sense of coolness new and old cards combine. Example being the new blackwing deck
I just got back into yugioh 2 monrhs ago after 8 years and at first it was like can I even compete but it's actually been a ton of fun. I go to locals 2 or 3 times a week and love it. I've even started to win a few.
I personally am very new to yugioh still. I started when master duel came out so I don’t know much about the old play style but in my opinion I enjoy the complexity and the variety of win conditions you can have. I recently started to build my favorite deck z-arc (shout out to PEN BEST DECK Trif gaming) to run in tcg.
I dont know if modern YGO is faster, as in "is that the word to be used?". I only begun to play with MD so I can only base my opinion from my knowledge of other games and also YT vids like Progression Series. I would pose the challenge of someone more invested to instead count the number of actions taken per game. I would theorize that older matches have more or less the same number of actions, just that now they are all condensed in 2 turns.
For example, playing the Historic format in MtG the average length of a game I have (with either an Aggro deck or Lock combo) on Bo1 is 3.40 minutes. The average game of a MD game I have is longer, prob around 4 or 5 minutes. The issue is that one of those can be 3-4 mins of my Opponent playing and 1 Min of mine.
I love modern yugioh . The amount of decks I can play and are viable is awesome. Having no set rotation is also a plus. Old cards that were once useless become useful and see play.
I agree with you. But, all the cancer and stupidity has migrated mostly to Master Duel, where people are literally using bots to play for them.
As long it ain’t Master Rule 4 and less on generic Boss Monsters with negates, I’m optimistic on what’s next.
One thing I really like about modern yugioh is how almost every deck in the game can be viable with the right build and how a lot of Low tier decks have been getting so much more support that makes decks that were almost unplayable into legitimate threats
@@asimhussain8716 this isn’t the case in like any card game I know of, yugioh is special in that you can play these old decks in the main format and they sometimes do get pretty good support like heros. I’ve played a pretty good amount of card games, mtg, Pokémon, vanguard, hearthstone, legends of runeterra, and a bunch of others, and in every case their are very clear better decks and not every deck is viable, the card game paradise you’re asking for simply doesn’t exist from what I’ve seen there is no way every deck can top in any format and there will always be decks that are just better than the old stuff, Konami should put out better support of course, but I don’t see it as a horrible sin that modern yugioh doesn’t throw mountains of support at 15 year old decks when they could just create an entirely new archetype that has a more clear wincon
@@asimhussain8716 I agree that greedy Konami is bad, but that seems to be the standard across the board for all card games, it’s not a good thing but it’s a fact of the hobby. And some decks are designed to be casual, like one of my favorite decks concept wise is metaphys and that deck is hardly playable in a casual setting let alone a competitive one. I definitely agree with your sentiment but I don’t think it’s a Konami issue it’s a card game issue. Power creep and cost creep is bad in mtg as well and honestly in my opinion Konami is a benevolent overlord compared to wizards
The only problem with the requirement of hand traps in the current meta is that you need to be familiar with the opponent's deck in order to try to counter the right card. Else, you've wasted your hand trap.
The background music is extremely annoying, I barely hear anything what this says. I love APS' content, but I hope he dosn't include them anymore in future videos.
I think it’s just too loud in this video, maybe if it was a little quieter it wouldn’t be annoying
So, everyone should play the same cards. How fun... Great argument (._.)
Yu-Gi-Oh sucks. There's no skirting around it. There's no strategy involved anymore, no actual guesswork needed with when to trigger a card, no uncertainty, just netdeck some broken OTK deck from online and that's it.
False
As a Yu-Gi-Boomer I've encountered an interesting issue when showing new people the game state today, monsters spells and traps are color coded well enough that most people, even if only minimally aware of the game, know basically what they are "you've activated my trap card!" And so forth.
Handtraps, being that they're just monsters, confuse new players because there isn't anything inherent about them that sets them apart from other monsters, such as pendulum monsters do. I feel we're a bit late in the game to add a whole new card type for them, but if it were possible I feel it would make the modern meta far less confusing for newer players.