Rebels definitely made sense wh it pertained to hit-and-run, guerrilla warfare and essentially utilising their limited resources to inflict maximum damage.
Yea , but that only works so much. Empire, especiel at the Yavin stage, had interdictors ready and ofc. the much faster Vic2's (Their as fast if not faster than an ISD soooo better to intercept). And if at all, playing the Xwing games again, you RARELY attack "big" targets as thats imposible to do anyway. Shure some hits where done against ISD's , especiel taking a CR90 and basicaly ram it through 4 or 5 ISD bridges, rendering them useless for MONTHS (wich still is a win for the rebels btw.)
Eck, i don’t often get here first but i just wanted to say - Thank you for these videos they got me super into Star Wars and have inspired me to start my own Sci-Fi project. Thank You.
I like that the Rebels don’t just randomly have lots of Fleets. It makes it feel realistic rather than just some “heroes got lots of equipment and easily will win”.
I still think that the movies portray them as too small. The book Twilight Company mentioned that they had thousands of ships compared to likely millions for the Empire
@@adorimirable I'm going to take your word for it since I refuse to ever watch the final installment to that worthless abomination of a trilogy! After the disaster of the second installment, I decided not to take any changes!
exactly I mean why are we the Bad guys if we just protect civillians and secure freedom? If you read some books you can see that the empire does more than the republic to protect civillians from pirates and smugglers ( wich is the reason why so much criminals Join the rebel alliance btw. ), while on the other side the rebel alliance raises criminals to management levels and does not punish them for their crimes against civillians after the war.
@@RC--lm8tj The answer to your question is that the empire made slavery legal that fact alone overrides any good the empire did. another point is that the empire acted more like the Taliban or isis so I see the empire as a terrorist organization than as a proper government.
@@Jeyeyeyey I used the Taliban or isis example because they are more recent than Nazi Germany. and yes the the empire ruling through fear basically makes it the same as any of those three groups in my eyes.
If this was Stellaris, the Rebel Alliance basically used the "Hit and Run" war strategy under policies, went down the Subterfuge tree, and branched out wide rather than tall. Then spec'd their Corvettes as screeners, their Cruisers to have Hangar Bays, gave all their Cruisers level V shields stacking with Shield Capacitor, and likely researched all the starfighter upgrades to make all their fighters and bombers OP, ha. :^D
@@redMrCrayon I would have said Xenophile Egalitarist. I could see the Rebel Alliance having Becon of Liberty, Safe Haven and maybe the Nomadic traits... Maybe.🤔
Fleet battle between Grand admiral Thrawn vs. Ender Wiggin Each one has an equal sized fleet with equally capable subordinates, and since Ender is from a different universe each has equal understanding of the technology they’re using. They are in command of Star Wars vessels. Pick a famous fleet of your choosing I’d suggest death squadron
Dang, that would be a match. They were both creative, used unconventional tactics, and could think on the fly. In the end I'd give Thrawn the edge just because he has the experience, but it would be a hard won victory.
@@QixTheDS I’m not sure buts a lot higher than 8 lol. I’m hoping if I’m persistent he’ll do it. But even if he doesn’t we have some good discussions in the comments.
nothing beats taking down the executor using tie defenders. the joys of the broken ass consortium lol still, my dad and brother both have the game too, so sometimes we like to play together. i've found the executor and death star really not worth the effort to build, but they havent sussed that out yet. Nothing a few MC30s and B-Wings can't deal with
@@ikonta169 MC30s are fragile but mobile. keep em out of the line of fire and they just shred. and B-Wings are broken in vanilla. lock S-Foils and theyre too fast to hit which entirely defires the lore but hey, i'm not going to argue!
@@blazepine thats true! But the challenge is just a nebulon B and blockade runners. If I had a open variety of u its to choose from i would just let a hyper velocity cannon deal with it while my fleet stays out of its reach, save maybe some bombing/fighter straffing runs
@@ikonta169 hypervelocity gun is Empire only and only from defence. the rebels get ion cannons which are useful - also only on defence... but then you have the consortium's starbase superweapon which poses an entirely different problem in that you can't use it in a "counter attack" scenario as for the nebulons and corvettes thing.. not impossible. just tricky. if your opponent has any brain cells they wont be using only the SSD without any escort, in which case your nebulons will be under constant fire from other ships. withotu an escort it'd be difficult still, but... add that escort in and you'll need a lot of nebulons,
In a nutshell; - Decentralized command structure. - Hit and run tactics. - Guerrilla warfare. - Fighting incompetent empire admirals (except thrawn, of course) - Plot armour
the true victor is the one who come's out with the lease casualties compared to the other, so in the end, there rebel's won when they are able to take down a star destroyer or 2 with only a handful of people
@@bobpope3656 one leader does now equal 1000 men, though one leader helps lead the men to victory, so it’s hard to say But those men have their training so they should still know what to do
@@bobpope3656 but is losing 1000 men to save one good leader worth it when it comes to the long run, because those grunts could have very well turned out to be some of the greatest soldiers in your army given time and any leader knows that they above all must show the other's how it's done and path the way for the future
@@LoneWolf20213 if your army is hundreds of thousands or even millions for sure. Anyone of them COULD turn out to be a good soldier a good leader by definition is already a good leader.
Far as I'm concerned, the reason the Empire kept losing was because they were decked out for a slugfest with similarly-equipped opponents (like the Yuuzhan Vong), and as such didn't invest much in dealing with smaller, weaker targets. Most of their ships were equipped with turbolasers, not laser cannons. The former are great at fighting against cruisers/capital ships, but suck at hitting smaller targets like frigates, fighters/bombers and blockade runners. When faced with this, they chose to double down on the heavy weapons instead of putting lighter, more maneuverable weaponry onto their ships to counter the Rebels' strategy of focusing on starfighter corps instead of capital ships. You saw it in the jump from the Imp 1 to the Imp 2 Star Destroyers: instead of a mix of turbolasers and laser cannons, they removed the laser cannons entirely and added more turbolasers. If you have a giant that cannot hit, or stop, smaller enemies from stinging it repeatedly, even the largest and most powerful giants will inevitably fall after being stung enough.
If you read the books the Empire actually used a lot of picket ships like the Carrack and Lancer as well as routine fighter/gunboat patrols and heavy weapons platforms surrounding their vital assets, they only used the Star Destroyers for capital ship on capital ship combat, but on screen you pretty much only see ISD's.
@@watcherzero5256 The only problem was that they didn't make enough of them - Lancers were expensive for ships of their size and typically ended up relegated to rear-guard duties and so weren't sufficiently utilised to combat the rebel threat posed by a predominantly carrier/starfighter fleet composition. Only Thrawn from my recollection utilised imperial picket ships in conjunction with ISD's to good effect and by that point the Empire was already reduced to the Imperial Remnant.
Wonder if we will see Ground Base Battle Breakdowns. This though is pretty interesting, cause wasn't the rebel alliance sometimes nicknamed the new separtist.
Battle of Endor would indeed bring every sector force together after knowing the destructive power of the first Death Star, Rebels will not allow a 2nd one come online. Also the Emperor being bait really encouraged a massive collaboration effort.
Good video. If I could suggest a topic for you to talk about in the future, I'd love for you to talk about "Alien Exodus," the unreleased novel that was going to try and tie Star Wars into the real world. I've always found the idea fascinating and I'd love for you to talk about it more in depth, since you talked about it once years ago.
Fleets are often less actual field forces and more administrative creations of to oversee several battle groups and task forces. The Battle Group would be the main combat element, consisting of capital ships, heavy escorts, medium escorts, light escorts, and fleet scouts. These forces could then be detached in temporary or even permanent task forces to conduct other operations on an as-needed basis. So, as an example, the New Republic's First Fleet would have oversight of all New Republic Navy vessels and installations in its area of control (as an example, we'll say the Core Worlds). The installations will probably be directly reporting to First Fleet's chain of command while the vessels are assigned to Battle Groups and Task Forces that conduct operations more or less independently of each other, with full fleet trains to support their operations.
#askeck can you make a list of requirements that one would need to meet in order to design a proper and flushed out Star Wars capital ship? Like, shields, life support, tractor beams, etc. What other considerations would a ship builder need to accommodate?
It always bugged me that in what's supposed to be an entire GALAXY, we only ever see a couple dozen places and things, over and over. And how (especially in the movies and shows), Hyperspace can get anyone anywhere in a day, tops.
I never got the impression that hyperspace travel was a short jaunt across the galaxy. It's no different than The Expanse. The show makes the travel time short unlike in the novels (so I'm told).
Yeah, movies can't actually show you the days of travel time. Now granted they could have had Han (or whoever) throw in a line about how it would take X days to reach the destination.
@@adambielen8996 and then we have Mandalorian who travels to ANOTHER STAR SYSTEM in real space on sublight speed in a tiny tin can of a ship. And it takes a couple of days at maximum. Seriously, sometimes I cannot feel but the Galaxy Far Far Away is just some kind of scale model of an actual galaxy, imitating it while being MUCH smaller than it should be. Some kind of weird Celestial research polygon, I dunno...
@Joshua Sharwood A star system IS massive, and they say in Serenity that the system has tons of habitable moons, and as far as I remember, Firefly had no FTL. Def not saying that SW needs to be that cumbersome. SW has always been more Science Fantasy than Science Fiction.
There was a lot of use of the stateless strategy (a category of strategies really, used in real life by the Taliban, Viet Cong, resistance groups in ww2). Doesn't automatically mean the group using it is actually stateless, though it often was the case.
Eh the New Republic had several more centralized fleets, but their member worlds and sector associations had their own very impressive fleets. Including ships from the New Class Modernization project that ended up pointing guns at each other in the Camaas Crisis.
One other point about their strategy: when it came to the fleet, the Empire was using "Battleship Doctrine" relying on heavy ships with massive guns, while the Rebels were using "Carrier Doctrine" relying on starfighters with ship-killing ordinance.
Good point. I heard that the Super Star Destroyer was based on the Yamato, a "super battleships" of the Japanese Imperial Navy during WWII. It had the largest guns ever placed on a warship, and plated with an incredible amount of armor and equipped with hundreds of anti-aircraft guns. Yet despite being the super weapon of the Pacific, the US Navy was able to sink it with a concentrated attack using fighters equipped with arial torpedoes.
Vs matchup Sgt. Johnson(Halo) vs Captain Rex(Star Wars) Johnson gets Br 55, 1 m6 sidearm and marine BDU Rex gets DC 15 rifle his pistols and phase 2 clone armor
Eck... We're waiting to hear what you have to say about other Sci-Fi universes' lore & with your understanding of fleet command, you have to something to say when it comes to this space-warefare.
One that came up in the Rebel Alliance WEG sourcebook is that the Alliance strategy was based around keeping the main fleet operational. There were strict limits on how much of the fleet could be detached for missions at one time and if the main fleet was attacked their orders were to retreat ASAP. There was also a standing order not to intervene if the Alliance HQ was attacked (Like the Battle of Hoth) because it was felt that the Alliance could survive losing the fleet or the HQ but couldn't recover from losing both.
Having played plenty of 4x games I know the power of defeat in detail. When your own fleets simply cannot be in one place at one time for fear that anywhere they are not will be lost to the enemy. Leading you to divide your forces as best you can read the situation only to overestimate some fronts, and underestimate others. Entire battlegroups lost to surprise attacks with reinforcements being weeks away if available at all leading to plenty of compromises made to maintain a proper fighting force even if it means withdrawing from the indefensible parts of my territory until I can regain my footing and finally leverage my resource/fleet advantage. Doing TO an enemy is completely satisfying knowing that putting my fleets in some locations can turn a hopeless war into a probably victory as their forces are stuck on different fronts while I take and loot and burn everything I can get my hands on, wreaking a larger foe by exploiting their own gargantuan size! That is what the empire had to face, a war from within and without on every front where every commander either needed to withdraw to safety and more pragmatic defence positions, or stay and try their hand at fate that their intel was correct and they even have access to the resources and tools on hand to resolve a threat. Not just from the rebel forces and traitor imperials, but also from the aggressive alien races the empire had bordered and were just waiting for the opportunity to attack!
Their greatest weapon was hope. Hope that things would be better, hope that an evil which sought to black out the stars themselves would be vanquished and that freedom and peace would return to the Galaxy. And when that evil crawled back from the abyss to enslave and oppress once again, the memory of the Rebellion inspired everyone to rise up and say, in one voice, "Not again. Never again."
Empire tactic Sir we lost a imperial star destroyer Then send in a big one Sir it also failed Then send in a bigger one - literally every imperial officer
How do you think Admiral Thrawn would handle factions from other Sci-Fi series? Like Vulcans & Klingons, Covenant & The Flood, or even Zeon and The Earth Federation with their giant robots?
Depends. Is he still using a star destroyer and other star wars like ships and weapons or is he using weapons similar to what universe he's currently in?
We have seen an X-wing and a kamikaze A-wing destroying a super star destroyer. Maybe investing in an auxilar bridge or two could have been a good idea after all.
How about some more videos about the different species/races/planets of the universe? Their history, culture, politics, traditional enemies ect? Perhaps conflicts that defined them? The more lore the better!
Did they though? Before the Battle of Endor, the Rebel Alliance was in the process of losing. Death Squadron had them on the run. They only turned it around in the 11th hour because Palpatine was overconfident and go impatient. He handed the Rebels a golden opportunity to seize victory from the jaws of defeat and they took it. Without that, they could have continued on causing the Empire problems for some time but I don't think they had any real way to win.
I'd love to see some Thrawn battle strategy videos. I'm halfway through reading Heir To The Empire and he is quite a force to be reckoned with. I can't believe it took me this long to read this trilogy.
Rebels had insane fighters and imps just started making more advance ties too little too late and their command structure looks for glory kills instead of winning. But hey gotta give respect to those ace imperial pilots in tie fighters wedge got nothing compared to those guys.
Hi Eckhardt can you do a video on Supply and Ordinance and the Admiral in command? I ask because I think they would be the most important branch because they acquired or distributed critical resources on multiple fronts and get little or no attention in Legends or Canon. To be honest I think Lando and Han would’ve been perfect in that branch or at least would’ve been paid well for services or information provided.
Hold up, the new canon had them use post-Ruusan force organization and they somehow managed to make the Empire crumble in less than a year? Who the hell hired these writers?
@Joshua Sharwood Better solution is just do away with Disney canon in general because all they're doing is reusing Legends elements in a worse way. Filoni's Thrawn was an insultingly watered down copy for a mediocre show, the High Republic is an even more insulting attempt to replace the actual Old Republic timeline, and the theme park failed so hard that Disney canceled the expansion they were going to make for it. They've failed so completely in trying to replace the Star Wars mythos that they've had to rerelease classic Legends books to turn a profit on the name they spent 4 billion dollars to get, which they still haven't managed to do, from what I've heard. Nothing can save Disney Canon and Filoni is not a good enough writer to even patch the holes in the boat.
Navy vs Navy? Rebels would likely win because that's their bread and butter, but if any faction were to come close, it would have to be the CIS simply because of both the sheer number of fighters and the diversity each fighter class would bring. Not to mention if the CIS is bringing a Malevolence-class dreadnought into the fight, one shot from that ion cannon could cripple most if not all of the rebel fleet
Eight minutes to say "Plot armor and Villain Ball being crammed so far up the baddies' colons they wouldn't be able to go to the bathroom if they were allowed to survive long enough... or allowed to eat food instead of drinking protein shakes"? :P
There was one fan story I have. It was during the clone wars where palpatine was at kalmenoe observing the war machines that were built for the clones "all I see is a machine...a beautiful machine." But then he disprove of the fighters. "I apologize my chancellor, but fighters are the one element of war we have trouble with. We never see the value of fighters in warfare. Fighters are viewed as...a poor man's war."
I've been listening to the aftermath trilogy on audible and I've come to recognize something, palpatine was an idiot. Both death stars and the satellites for operation cinder were stupid ideas and palpatine was too arrogant to see his errors
Hope and knowing they were at a point of no return. When you back an enemy into a corner and give them no hope of coming out alive, they will fight you with everything they have.
@@barbiquearea very true . Its happened many times in military history like the English at agincourt vs the French outnumbered 6 to 1 but no escape possible. Win or die . They won
So something I've been wondering for awhile: why was the 501st the only force to conduct the attack on the Jedi Temple, despite the Coruscant clone guards also being on Coruscant?
Historically having more resources does not always bring victory in war. Take Napoleon, Vietnam or the American revolution for example. And the same goes for the bigest ship just look at Bismark or Yamato.
Vs matchup Yss-1000 saber( Halo Reach) vs T-65 X-wing(Star Wars). 2 rounds round 1 average pilot in each round 2 noble 6 in the saber vs Wedge Antilles in the X-wing
I'm trying to imagine Thrawn trying to understand Orks via studying their culture. I think he'd be equally impressed and repulsed. Also, short term, yes, long term no. The empire would attrition him to dust, eldar would either outplan or assinate him with harlequins, nids wouldn't care, orks wouldn't care, necrons would steamroll him in a heartbeat. I think he'd get on great with the tau and be a significant boon to the greater good though.
Considering how big galaxies are it is a lot, lot, less then even that. On the other hand running an empire with several billions of worlds may a tad bit difficult.
The Executor would still have gone down by sustaining heavy batteries from by the Rebel's concentrated assault. The fact that it was so huge and thus ill maneuverable meant it was an easy target for a sustained assault by lesser battleships. When Arvel's A-Wing hit the bridge, its bridge deflector shield was already down, meaning Ackbar's concentrated assault had drained much of it's shield's capacity, leaving it completely vulnerable to be finished off.
@@barbiquearea Maybe but their is a chance they shield could have been reformed, and well executor firing away could have brought down more warships before she finally went down.
Tbh that wasnt a secret how they won, I would like to see a vid about some spektakulär atacks or Operation, Like that one were the rammed a cv90 on colisun with some isd in a shipyard and destroyed 5 by only losing the cv90
It’s really all about plot armor and the script writer being on the side of the rebels. Look at the battle of scarif for example. ANY competent commander on the Imperial side should have Easily and solidly defeated the entire rebel fleet.... with the 2 Imperial class Star Destroyers alone. To say nothing of the dozens of Tie fighters stationed on the shield ring station.
To be fair many captains and admirals, like those commanding Star Destroyers were inept and arrogant. For every Admiral Thrawn and Piett, there was a Ozzel and Constantine. While fleets and Star Destroyers were commanded by competent officers, many of had risen to those positions did so either out of their loyalty to Palpatine or because of political connections and cronyism.
#askoctober #askeck if the galaxy’s supply of stygium crystals was exhausted by the Battle of Endor, what powered the cloak on the Anakin Solo? Lore Versus video request: Resurgent vs. Starhawk Tie Striker vs. New Republic V-Wing World Devastator vs. Vong Worldship Tie Silencer vs. X-83 Twintail Tie Silencer vs. Tie Defender (legends version) Keldabe vs. ISD II MC90 vs. Nebula class star destroyer Nebula class vs. Pellaeon class Majestic class vs. Bothan Assault Cruiser FOTR’s Mandator II portrayal vs. Subjugator Praetor vs. Subjugator EAWX: TR’s Mediator portrayal vs. Resurgent
I believe that the rebels were trying to say far from the four basic ingredients of war. Agression Obedience Purity Growing Sometimes they are more worried about being close to these than their own lives or the fate of victory.
They didn't so much win the battle than the enemy fighting them with one hand tied behind their back in the first phase of the battle out of hubris. Emperor Palpatine commanded Admiral Piett not to engage the Rebel Alliance fleet until the Death Star II starts pew-pewing. That cost the Imperials valuable time and allowed the rebels to better organize their attack against them unhindered. Had Piett engaged the Rebellion fleet from the get-go, the Empire would have won the day.
Rebels definitely made sense wh it pertained to hit-and-run, guerrilla warfare and essentially utilising their limited resources to inflict maximum damage.
Yea , but that only works so much. Empire, especiel at the Yavin stage, had interdictors ready and ofc. the much faster Vic2's (Their as fast if not faster than an ISD soooo better to intercept). And if at all, playing the Xwing games again, you RARELY attack "big" targets as thats imposible to do anyway. Shure some hits where done against ISD's , especiel taking a CR90 and basicaly ram it through 4 or 5 ISD bridges, rendering them useless for MONTHS (wich still is a win for the rebels btw.)
When space starts to say "for the rebellion!"
I mean, do not underestimate the power of throwing the emperor down a shaft.
According to Thrawn that basically demoralized the Imperial forces like it was some sort of force effected kill switch.
@@barbiquearea they will retcon it so i was engaging in battle meditation while my traitorous apprentice, was battling his son on the death star.
Eck, i don’t often get here first but i just wanted to say - Thank you for these videos they got me super into Star Wars and have inspired me to start my own Sci-Fi project. Thank You.
I couldnt agree more with this comment. I'm also making a star wars animation. Good luck
Good luck with your project
A project with space warfare?
@@Sheilawisz yesss
@@shanenolan8252 thankk youu :)
I like that the Rebels don’t just randomly have lots of Fleets. It makes it feel realistic rather than just some “heroes got lots of equipment and easily will win”.
Agreed
I still think that the movies portray them as too small. The book Twilight Company mentioned that they had thousands of ships compared to likely millions for the Empire
Thats why i hate the end of rise of skywalker with the galactic wide fleet battling the star destroyers
@@dankuser8303 I wish that book could be adapted in a show or movie.
@@adorimirable I'm going to take your word for it since I refuse to ever watch the final installment to that worthless abomination of a trilogy!
After the disaster of the second installment, I decided not to take any changes!
"That plot armour is too strong for blasters." - Imperial slugs
Yes. And it doesn't make sense. The rebel scum should all be erased, because of too much plot armor.
exactly I mean why are we the Bad guys if we just protect civillians and secure freedom? If you read some books you can see that the empire does more than the republic to protect civillians from pirates and smugglers ( wich is the reason why so much criminals Join the rebel alliance btw. ), while on the other side the rebel alliance raises criminals to management levels and does not punish them for their crimes against civillians after the war.
@@RC--lm8tj The answer to your question is that the empire made slavery legal that fact alone overrides any good the empire did. another point is that the empire acted more like the Taliban or isis so I see the empire as a terrorist organization than as a proper government.
@@Venator631 except it didn't but ok
if anything the rebels behaved as isis.
@@Jeyeyeyey I used the Taliban or isis example because they are more recent than Nazi Germany. and yes the the empire ruling through fear basically makes it the same as any of those three groups in my eyes.
If this was Stellaris, the Rebel Alliance basically used the "Hit and Run" war strategy under policies, went down the Subterfuge tree, and branched out wide rather than tall.
Then spec'd their Corvettes as screeners, their Cruisers to have Hangar Bays, gave all their Cruisers level V shields stacking with Shield Capacitor, and likely researched all the starfighter upgrades to make all their fighters and bombers OP, ha. :^D
Xenophile spiritualists
Oh gawd 🤢🤮
@@redMrCrayon I would have said Xenophile Egalitarist. I could see the Rebel Alliance having Becon of Liberty, Safe Haven and maybe the Nomadic traits... Maybe.🤔
@@larry-three8225 my Fanatic Spiritualist/Militarist Covenant will crush them MWAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
Fleet battle between
Grand admiral Thrawn vs. Ender Wiggin
Each one has an equal sized fleet with equally capable subordinates, and since Ender is from a different universe each has equal understanding of the technology they’re using. They are in command of Star Wars vessels. Pick a famous fleet of your choosing I’d suggest death squadron
Did ender fleet even have shields? I only saw the movie and don’t remember I don’t think this would even be fight.
Dang, that would be a match. They were both creative, used unconventional tactics, and could think on the fly. In the end I'd give Thrawn the edge just because he has the experience, but it would be a hard won victory.
@@bobpope3656 I give them both Star Wars fleets to help control for tech differences
Is this attempt 8?
@@QixTheDS I’m not sure buts a lot higher than 8 lol. I’m hoping if I’m persistent he’ll do it. But even if he doesn’t we have some good discussions in the comments.
I need to see you take down an Executor with a nebulon B and blockade runners in Empire at War.
nothing beats taking down the executor using tie defenders. the joys of the broken ass consortium lol
still, my dad and brother both have the game too, so sometimes we like to play together. i've found the executor and death star really not worth the effort to build, but they havent sussed that out yet. Nothing a few MC30s and B-Wings can't deal with
If you keep them on the ssd's ass, they can just fire away and drain the shields and pop the hard points while the corvettes eat fighters
@@ikonta169 MC30s are fragile but mobile. keep em out of the line of fire and they just shred.
and B-Wings are broken in vanilla. lock S-Foils and theyre too fast to hit which entirely defires the lore but hey, i'm not going to argue!
@@blazepine thats true! But the challenge is just a nebulon B and blockade runners. If I had a open variety of u its to choose from i would just let a hyper velocity cannon deal with it while my fleet stays out of its reach, save maybe some bombing/fighter straffing runs
@@ikonta169 hypervelocity gun is Empire only and only from defence.
the rebels get ion cannons which are useful - also only on defence...
but then you have the consortium's starbase superweapon which poses an entirely different problem in that you can't use it in a "counter attack" scenario
as for the nebulons and corvettes thing.. not impossible. just tricky. if your opponent has any brain cells they wont be using only the SSD without any escort, in which case your nebulons will be under constant fire from other ships. withotu an escort it'd be difficult still, but...
add that escort in and you'll need a lot of nebulons,
In a nutshell;
- Decentralized command structure.
- Hit and run tactics.
- Guerrilla warfare.
- Fighting incompetent empire admirals (except thrawn, of course)
- Plot armour
the true victor is the one who come's out with the lease casualties compared to the other, so in the end, there rebel's won when they are able to take down a star destroyer or 2 with only a handful of people
You can kill 1000 of my grunt soldiers if I can kill your leader, who won?
@@bobpope3656 one leader does now equal 1000 men, though one leader helps lead the men to victory, so it’s hard to say
But those men have their training so they should still know what to do
@@LoneWolf20213 A good leader is worth well more then 1000 soldiers
@@bobpope3656 but is losing 1000 men to save one good leader worth it when it comes to the long run, because those grunts could have very well turned out to be some of the greatest soldiers in your army given time
and any leader knows that they above all must show the other's how it's done and path the way for the future
@@LoneWolf20213 if your army is hundreds of thousands or even millions for sure. Anyone of them COULD turn out to be a good soldier a good leader by definition is already a good leader.
Far as I'm concerned, the reason the Empire kept losing was because they were decked out for a slugfest with similarly-equipped opponents (like the Yuuzhan Vong), and as such didn't invest much in dealing with smaller, weaker targets. Most of their ships were equipped with turbolasers, not laser cannons. The former are great at fighting against cruisers/capital ships, but suck at hitting smaller targets like frigates, fighters/bombers and blockade runners.
When faced with this, they chose to double down on the heavy weapons instead of putting lighter, more maneuverable weaponry onto their ships to counter the Rebels' strategy of focusing on starfighter corps instead of capital ships. You saw it in the jump from the Imp 1 to the Imp 2 Star Destroyers: instead of a mix of turbolasers and laser cannons, they removed the laser cannons entirely and added more turbolasers.
If you have a giant that cannot hit, or stop, smaller enemies from stinging it repeatedly, even the largest and most powerful giants will inevitably fall after being stung enough.
If you read the books the Empire actually used a lot of picket ships like the Carrack and Lancer as well as routine fighter/gunboat patrols and heavy weapons platforms surrounding their vital assets, they only used the Star Destroyers for capital ship on capital ship combat, but on screen you pretty much only see ISD's.
@@watcherzero5256 The only problem was that they didn't make enough of them - Lancers were expensive for ships of their size and typically ended up relegated to rear-guard duties and so weren't sufficiently utilised to combat the rebel threat posed by a predominantly carrier/starfighter fleet composition. Only Thrawn from my recollection utilised imperial picket ships in conjunction with ISD's to good effect and by that point the Empire was already reduced to the Imperial Remnant.
Wonder if we will see Ground Base Battle Breakdowns.
This though is pretty interesting, cause wasn't the rebel alliance sometimes nicknamed the new separtist.
Battle of Endor would indeed bring every sector force together after knowing the destructive power of the first Death Star, Rebels will not allow a 2nd one come online. Also the Emperor being bait really encouraged a massive collaboration effort.
Good video. If I could suggest a topic for you to talk about in the future, I'd love for you to talk about "Alien Exodus," the unreleased novel that was going to try and tie Star Wars into the real world. I've always found the idea fascinating and I'd love for you to talk about it more in depth, since you talked about it once years ago.
@8:01 - Han Solo in an Officer Uniform is a _CURSED IMAGE._
I don't know, he looks good in it.
Fleets are often less actual field forces and more administrative creations of to oversee several battle groups and task forces.
The Battle Group would be the main combat element, consisting of capital ships, heavy escorts, medium escorts, light escorts, and fleet scouts. These forces could then be detached in temporary or even permanent task forces to conduct other operations on an as-needed basis.
So, as an example, the New Republic's First Fleet would have oversight of all New Republic Navy vessels and installations in its area of control (as an example, we'll say the Core Worlds). The installations will probably be directly reporting to First Fleet's chain of command while the vessels are assigned to Battle Groups and Task Forces that conduct operations more or less independently of each other, with full fleet trains to support their operations.
#askeck can you make a list of requirements that one would need to meet in order to design a proper and flushed out Star Wars capital ship? Like, shields, life support, tractor beams, etc. What other considerations would a ship builder need to accommodate?
It always bugged me that in what's supposed to be an entire GALAXY, we only ever see a couple dozen places and things, over and over. And how (especially in the movies and shows), Hyperspace can get anyone anywhere in a day, tops.
Actually if you remember in “A New Hope” Luke and Obi are actually killing quite a bit of time training
I never got the impression that hyperspace travel was a short jaunt across the galaxy. It's no different than The Expanse. The show makes the travel time short unlike in the novels (so I'm told).
Yeah, movies can't actually show you the days of travel time. Now granted they could have had Han (or whoever) throw in a line about how it would take X days to reach the destination.
@@adambielen8996 and then we have Mandalorian who travels to ANOTHER STAR SYSTEM in real space on sublight speed in a tiny tin can of a ship. And it takes a couple of days at maximum.
Seriously, sometimes I cannot feel but the Galaxy Far Far Away is just some kind of scale model of an actual galaxy, imitating it while being MUCH smaller than it should be. Some kind of weird Celestial research polygon, I dunno...
@Joshua Sharwood A star system IS massive, and they say in Serenity that the system has tons of habitable moons, and as far as I remember, Firefly had no FTL.
Def not saying that SW needs to be that cumbersome. SW has always been more Science Fantasy than Science Fiction.
There was a lot of use of the stateless strategy (a category of strategies really, used in real life by the Taliban, Viet Cong, resistance groups in ww2). Doesn't automatically mean the group using it is actually stateless, though it often was the case.
Eh the New Republic had several more centralized fleets, but their member worlds and sector associations had their own very impressive fleets. Including ships from the New Class Modernization project that ended up pointing guns at each other in the Camaas Crisis.
I'm so glad you've got a clear vision now of where you want to take the channel. We will stick with you wherever you take it
One other point about their strategy: when it came to the fleet, the Empire was using "Battleship Doctrine" relying on heavy ships with massive guns, while the Rebels were using "Carrier Doctrine" relying on starfighters with ship-killing ordinance.
Good point. I heard that the Super Star Destroyer was based on the Yamato, a "super battleships" of the Japanese Imperial Navy during WWII. It had the largest guns ever placed on a warship, and plated with an incredible amount of armor and equipped with hundreds of anti-aircraft guns. Yet despite being the super weapon of the Pacific, the US Navy was able to sink it with a concentrated attack using fighters equipped with arial torpedoes.
It had a sister ship, the Musashi I think, which took 19 torpedoes and 17 bombs to sink.
@@Sansarii_Minecraft it had a second sister which was converted to a carrier
@@sovietdominion
The Shinano, but she was sunk by the submarine, Archerfish, before she was completely refitted.
Or the Bismarck that got defeated with outdated bi Planes
Vs matchup Sgt. Johnson(Halo) vs Captain Rex(Star Wars)
Johnson gets Br 55, 1 m6 sidearm and marine BDU
Rex gets DC 15 rifle his pistols and phase 2 clone armor
I think a video about former Imperials in the New Republic would be interesting. Why did they join and why were they allowed to join?
New drinking game. Take a shot every time someone in the comments says "Plot armor".
@Joshua Sharwood Never said it had to be booze. Lots of folks dehydrated.
Apparently the Empire never heard the phrase, _"the bigger they are, the harder they fall."_
Eck... We're waiting to hear what you have to say about other Sci-Fi universes' lore & with your understanding of fleet command, you have to something to say when it comes to this space-warefare.
The Rebels picked their battles, only standing to fight if they knew they could win or had no other option.
One that came up in the Rebel Alliance WEG sourcebook is that the Alliance strategy was based around keeping the main fleet operational. There were strict limits on how much of the fleet could be detached for missions at one time and if the main fleet was attacked their orders were to retreat ASAP. There was also a standing order not to intervene if the Alliance HQ was attacked (Like the Battle of Hoth) because it was felt that the Alliance could survive losing the fleet or the HQ but couldn't recover from losing both.
Having played plenty of 4x games I know the power of defeat in detail. When your own fleets simply cannot be in one place at one time for fear that anywhere they are not will be lost to the enemy. Leading you to divide your forces as best you can read the situation only to overestimate some fronts, and underestimate others. Entire battlegroups lost to surprise attacks with reinforcements being weeks away if available at all leading to plenty of compromises made to maintain a proper fighting force even if it means withdrawing from the indefensible parts of my territory until I can regain my footing and finally leverage my resource/fleet advantage. Doing TO an enemy is completely satisfying knowing that putting my fleets in some locations can turn a hopeless war into a probably victory as their forces are stuck on different fronts while I take and loot and burn everything I can get my hands on, wreaking a larger foe by exploiting their own gargantuan size!
That is what the empire had to face, a war from within and without on every front where every commander either needed to withdraw to safety and more pragmatic defence positions, or stay and try their hand at fate that their intel was correct and they even have access to the resources and tools on hand to resolve a threat. Not just from the rebel forces and traitor imperials, but also from the aggressive alien races the empire had bordered and were just waiting for the opportunity to attack!
Their greatest weapon was hope. Hope that things would be better, hope that an evil which sought to black out the stars themselves would be vanquished and that freedom and peace would return to the Galaxy. And when that evil crawled back from the abyss to enslave and oppress once again, the memory of the Rebellion inspired everyone to rise up and say, in one voice, "Not again. Never again."
That and Proton Torpedoes. Those helped too.
@@johnwolf2349 True, but hope makes for a better story to tell...
@@owenparris7490 "I'm going to fight you with the power of friendship, and this gun I found!"
@@johnwolf2349 Oh, I put some Rebels/Solo references in here, too, forgot to mention.
Empire tactic
Sir we lost a imperial star destroyer
Then send in a big one
Sir it also failed
Then send in a bigger one - literally every imperial officer
How do you think Admiral Thrawn would handle factions from other Sci-Fi series?
Like Vulcans & Klingons, Covenant & The Flood, or even Zeon and The Earth Federation with their giant robots?
Depends. Is he still using a star destroyer and other star wars like ships and weapons or is he using weapons similar to what universe he's currently in?
“If the enemy is strong give them cancer from the inside” -Sun Zoo’s Art of Krieg
Please do more of these videos! Especially for the battle of coruscant!
I connect the rebellion a lot to the American Revolution due to the ideals and tactics in play
I'd love to see a breakdown of the specific NR fleets you mentioned, love the content!
We have seen an X-wing and a kamikaze A-wing destroying a super star destroyer. Maybe investing in an auxilar bridge or two could have been a good idea after all.
How about some more videos about the different species/races/planets of the universe? Their history, culture, politics, traditional enemies ect? Perhaps conflicts that defined them? The more lore the better!
I started using audible because of you and I've racked up 26 days of listening :)
Eck's tactic analysis videos aren't even my main attraction to this channel but are still very interesting.
Did they though? Before the Battle of Endor, the Rebel Alliance was in the process of losing. Death Squadron had them on the run. They only turned it around in the 11th hour because Palpatine was overconfident and go impatient. He handed the Rebels a golden opportunity to seize victory from the jaws of defeat and they took it. Without that, they could have continued on causing the Empire problems for some time but I don't think they had any real way to win.
I'd love to see some Thrawn battle strategy videos. I'm halfway through reading Heir To The Empire and he is quite a force to be reckoned with. I can't believe it took me this long to read this trilogy.
That footage at the end, was that starwars assault from the ps1 havent seen that in a long time
Damn, that video clip at the end caught me off-guard. I thought I was the only one who still remembered Rebel Assault II.
Rebels had insane fighters and imps just started making more advance ties too little too late and their command structure looks for glory kills instead of winning.
But hey gotta give respect to those ace imperial pilots in tie fighters wedge got nothing compared to those guys.
Another amazing video
In other words, insurgency. IMO, the biggest problem for the Empire is that it entirely relied on one person, the Emperor.
Yeah the other top figures where so focused on amassing power and not just doing their jobs.
"Guerilla warfare. Efficient ship design. Secrets only the Rebels knew!"
This is gonna come in handy
7% of the Empire's Navy (just going off of purely the ISDs....is the equivilent strength of at least 1,750 ISDs)
Fleet battle
Rebel fleet at Endor vs. Cole’s fleet at Cole’s last stand
Hi Eckhardt can you do a video on Supply and Ordinance and the Admiral in command? I ask because I think they would be the most important branch because they acquired or distributed critical resources on multiple fronts and get little or no attention in Legends or Canon. To be honest I think Lando and Han would’ve been perfect in that branch or at least would’ve been paid well for services or information provided.
Later on I would love to see a detailed video of a techno-organic war between the Reapers from Mass Effect vs the Yuuzhan Vong
Rebels probably just lightspeeded through the imperial ships lol
Hold up, the new canon had them use post-Ruusan force organization and they somehow managed to make the Empire crumble in less than a year? Who the hell hired these writers?
@Joshua Sharwood Better solution is just do away with Disney canon in general because all they're doing is reusing Legends elements in a worse way. Filoni's Thrawn was an insultingly watered down copy for a mediocre show, the High Republic is an even more insulting attempt to replace the actual Old Republic timeline, and the theme park failed so hard that Disney canceled the expansion they were going to make for it. They've failed so completely in trying to replace the Star Wars mythos that they've had to rerelease classic Legends books to turn a profit on the name they spent 4 billion dollars to get, which they still haven't managed to do, from what I've heard. Nothing can save Disney Canon and Filoni is not a good enough writer to even patch the holes in the boat.
Hey @EckhartsLadder, which do you enjoy more: The Bantam or Del Rey eras of Star Wars Legends?
Do a video on how the alliance navy would do against the confederacy fleet please.
Navy vs Navy? Rebels would likely win because that's their bread and butter, but if any faction were to come close, it would have to be the CIS simply because of both the sheer number of fighters and the diversity each fighter class would bring. Not to mention if the CIS is bringing a Malevolence-class dreadnought into the fight, one shot from that ion cannon could cripple most if not all of the rebel fleet
Eight minutes to say "Plot armor and Villain Ball being crammed so far up the baddies' colons they wouldn't be able to go to the bathroom if they were allowed to survive long enough... or allowed to eat food instead of drinking protein shakes"? :P
There was one fan story I have.
It was during the clone wars where palpatine was at kalmenoe observing the war machines that were built for the clones "all I see is a machine...a beautiful machine." But then he disprove of the fighters. "I apologize my chancellor, but fighters are the one element of war we have trouble with. We never see the value of fighters in warfare. Fighters are viewed as...a poor man's war."
There’s a very good reason how they won Justin… it’s all part of the script.
Actually they won because of “hope”
A new hope, specifically.
Because the Force was with them.
Because the plot armour was strong with them
Look, if I wanted to hear about Disney I would be watching videos about Disney.
Duh, rebellions are built on hope
Eck..... Where's the dog?
Oh I thought this was going to be a video about specific tactics 😞
I've been listening to the aftermath trilogy on audible and I've come to recognize something, palpatine was an idiot. Both death stars and the satellites for operation cinder were stupid ideas and palpatine was too arrogant to see his errors
Plot armor is one of them😂
Hey Eckhart have you ever considered if the Cylons could win the clone wars using a combination of Hacked Droids and infiltration?
It makes sense rebel fleet. They must have hoped for victory and planned to exploit a victory if it happens
Hope and knowing they were at a point of no return. When you back an enemy into a corner and give them no hope of coming out alive, they will fight you with everything they have.
@@barbiquearea very true . Its happened many times in military history like the English at agincourt vs the French outnumbered 6 to 1 but no escape possible. Win or die . They won
When your world is crumbling around you and you’re struggling to move forward….
But ecks posts a video
So something I've been wondering for awhile: why was the 501st the only force to conduct the attack on the Jedi Temple, despite the Coruscant clone guards also being on Coruscant?
Uhh, the answer is in the name bud. 'guard' means defense not offense.
TL;DR: The Rebellion pulled an America.
Can you do more thrawn stuff similar to this?
Historically having more resources does not always bring victory in war. Take Napoleon, Vietnam or the American revolution for example. And the same goes for the bigest ship just look at Bismark or Yamato.
3.39 isn't that the rebel faction trailer scene from stw commander
The footage at 2:53, where the Rebels are getting obliterated. Where is this from?
Vs matchup Yss-1000 saber( Halo Reach) vs T-65 X-wing(Star Wars). 2 rounds round 1 average pilot in each round 2 noble 6 in the saber vs Wedge Antilles in the X-wing
Could Thrawn survive warhammer 40k.
I'm trying to imagine Thrawn trying to understand Orks via studying their culture.
I think he'd be equally impressed and repulsed.
Also, short term, yes, long term no. The empire would attrition him to dust, eldar would either outplan or assinate him with harlequins, nids wouldn't care, orks wouldn't care, necrons would steamroll him in a heartbeat.
I think he'd get on great with the tau and be a significant boon to the greater good though.
Well......he has the Tau's skin color 😅
He would thrive in that universe!
I imagine Thrawn would be excellent at Battlefleet Gothic Armada.
Only if he didn't bring along his favourite Nohgri....
Duraplot armor with advanced BS Shielding goes a long way.
When you stated that the Rebellion had 3-7% of the Empire's total strength... There's a real-world historical reference in there.
you get hit with a bunch of torps you go boom pretty much
suggest the Expeditionary Force books on audible
Let’s be honest, the on screen Empire is like 1 percent the size of “The Empire”
Considering how big galaxies are it is a lot, lot, less then even that. On the other hand running an empire with several billions of worlds may a tad bit difficult.
How do you think the Battle of Endor would have ended, if Arvel Crynyd never hit the bridge of the Executor?
The Executor would still have gone down by sustaining heavy batteries from by the Rebel's concentrated assault. The fact that it was so huge and thus ill maneuverable meant it was an easy target for a sustained assault by lesser battleships. When Arvel's A-Wing hit the bridge, its bridge deflector shield was already down, meaning Ackbar's concentrated assault had drained much of it's shield's capacity, leaving it completely vulnerable to be finished off.
@@barbiquearea Maybe but their is a chance they shield could have been reformed, and well executor firing away could have brought down more warships before she finally went down.
Tbh that wasnt a secret how they won, I would like to see a vid about some spektakulär atacks or Operation,
Like that one were the rammed a cv90 on colisun with some isd in a shipyard and destroyed 5 by only losing the cv90
It’s really all about plot armor and the script writer being on the side of the rebels. Look at the battle of scarif for example. ANY competent commander on the Imperial side should have Easily and solidly defeated the entire rebel fleet.... with the 2 Imperial class Star Destroyers alone. To say nothing of the dozens of Tie fighters stationed on the shield ring station.
To be fair many captains and admirals, like those commanding Star Destroyers were inept and arrogant. For every Admiral Thrawn and Piett, there was a Ozzel and Constantine. While fleets and Star Destroyers were commanded by competent officers, many of had risen to those positions did so either out of their loyalty to Palpatine or because of political connections and cronyism.
#askoctober #askeck if the galaxy’s supply of stygium crystals was exhausted by the Battle of Endor, what powered the cloak on the Anakin Solo?
Lore Versus video request:
Resurgent vs. Starhawk
Tie Striker vs. New Republic V-Wing
World Devastator vs. Vong Worldship
Tie Silencer vs. X-83 Twintail
Tie Silencer vs. Tie Defender (legends version)
Keldabe vs. ISD II
MC90 vs. Nebula class star destroyer
Nebula class vs. Pellaeon class
Majestic class vs. Bothan Assault Cruiser
FOTR’s Mandator II portrayal vs. Subjugator
Praetor vs. Subjugator
EAWX: TR’s Mediator portrayal vs. Resurgent
Nice
Teamwork, they used
7% seems plausable at the Battle of Endor, but not at Yavin, that's much more 1% territory.
Where’s the outro?
I believe that the rebels were trying to say far from the four basic ingredients of war.
Agression
Obedience
Purity
Growing
Sometimes they are more worried about being close to these than their own lives or the fate of victory.
oh no where did the ending music and dog boops go?
Did U Already watch the First Order and new Republik reimagined by the Templin Institute If so whats your Opinion on it?
Secrets of rebel strategy,
One word
Plot armour.
They didn't so much win the battle than the enemy fighting them with one hand tied behind their back in the first phase of the battle out of hubris. Emperor Palpatine commanded Admiral Piett not to engage the Rebel Alliance fleet until the Death Star II starts pew-pewing. That cost the Imperials valuable time and allowed the rebels to better organize their attack against them unhindered. Had Piett engaged the Rebellion fleet from the get-go, the Empire would have won the day.
Not really. Had Admiral Piett engaged the Rebel fleet from the get-go, most of them would've fled into hyperspace and tried again on a later date.
Mass effect reaper vs halo flood video .
The Empire fell due to its lack of waffle fries.
we all know that without Ackbar yelling its a trap the rebels plot armor would have fallen apart with the ewoks
2:07 where is this map from?