CRASH TEST: Yamaha Niken vs MT-09 | Is there more grip?
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- Опубликовано: 21 май 2019
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BikeSocial properly tests the grip of Yamaha's three-wheel Niken, compared to the MT-09 that it shares an engine with...
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Find out more here, including measurements of the contact patch: www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/bikes/long-term-test-bikes/yamaha-long-term-test-bikes/can-you-crash-yamaha-niken
Wanna get more hits? Repost it as "Death Stranding" motorcycle in real life..
And yes Norman Reebus approves..
this music does a permanent brain damage....
Evidently
@@bennettsbikesocial you got me :)
@@CyberGasty Nobody likes the music we used for a while, but we're trying to improve it!
@@bennettsbikesocial if only it was in the background and less loud, maybe it could pass. Nevertheless, always appreciate your vids.
@@bennettsbikesocial Maybe stop using music?
Seriously Lower the music otherwise good content.
Felt myself constantly adjusting to hear the guy and avoid the loud music
Excellent test and interesting results, thanks for sharing! Turn the music down though, it’s distracting and too loud.
the big benefit of two front wheels shows up in bad pavement situations. If your commute involves urban stretches with potholes or trolly tracks you'll love it.
My commute involves potholes, bad weather, carrying a big tool box...and that's why I have a car. Motorcycles are for fun on the weekend or vacations, where I'll be riding somewhere nice.
Came for the music. Wasn't disappointed.
Very informative conversation, I'm grateful that you had a very competent and articulate professional talking this through. Terrible music though. Still voted up because I needed this information on this dual front wheel concept.
Recently a journalist (also a good pilot) has beaten by 2s the record on wet track on a Pirelli test track with the Niken
Thanks guys for putting all this effort into and also for the excellent explanation of what the limit feels like on the Niken.
As an owner of a month old Yamaha Niken GT with 2,600 miles on the clock I found this very interesting. As a 55yr old Motorcycle Instructor I have owned all sorts of bikes in the 38 years since passing my test including in the last 7 years, 5 Triumph Explorers covering over 85,000 miles. Having watched the excellent shots of the Niken sliding progressively across the wet tarmac and Chris`s excellent description of that feeling in your stomach when the bike "lets go" reminded me of a very wet day 2 weeks ago and the same thing happened to me on a roundabout the front "tucked" but gave me time with a bit of opposite lock to push the bike back up and then on acceleration out of the roundabout lit up the rear tyre to the point i actually stopped to check I hadn't got a puncture!! Certainly saved me from an unplanned dismount!
The Niken GT is definitely a "marmite bike" from the reaction I have had so far amongst fellow bikers but without doubt in 38 years I have never had so many non-bikers look at a bike so much. Everybody wants to know about it. Fuel stops take twice as long!
Plus points :- The most comfortable bike I have owned.
Excellent slow speed control (very useful following 16yr olds on a CBT!)
Gets me noticed!!
Bad Points :- Apart from good natured abuse (so far) I will let ya know.
What has your bike's current mileage got to do with with why you found the video interesting?
@@gpz550a2 Because he can better relate to the vid with his experience on hi Niken
If I hadn't bought two motorcycles before the Niken was released, it would be one of the bikes in my garage. I'm digging that bike.
Man I’d love to have a go with these outriggers.... such a great way to really find the limits ;)
I took a niken out at MCN festival for a giggle but I've got to admit I was impressed. It's not going to replace the ninja any time soon but kudos to Yamaha for the concept.
Now imagine it with a 1200cc motor...thats what i wanna see. Also stretched a bit.
@@highrider9168 I said to the Yamaha chap it was fun in mode 1 but needed a bit more poke to keep it interesting:)
@@mrmully7275 agreed! With added stability should come greater speed!
Thank you for posting - proper critical analysis!
Thanks this was a test I did not know I needed to see but it helps a lot with my choice
test would be interesting with cornering abs
6:35 oof, yeah, that's exactly the feeling
Great video, well done!
i'd really like to see just the go round footage, no music, no commentary, just data, plz & thx
I was going to buy it, but the pegs scraping on EVERY corner made me crazy when i tried it. Was going to be the first bike bought by my brain and no my heart so the looks didn´t mattered. At 47 after 30 sportbikes and not riding since my Little daughter arrived 4 years ago i think i´m the target for this bike, but still have bad habits on the roads and 45º it´s not enough. The main problem is that it give you toooooooooo much confident making you forget that you are in a bike and you are mortal.
they go beyond 45 degrees...53 is possible on the niken with good tyres
W
love the front calipers on the mt09 reminds me of early 2000s r6s and fazers
Sounds like there is much less risk of highsiding on a Niken given how it doesn’t whip back up.
Happy to see innovation
Awesome Mongolian throat singing at 4:03
Excuse me do you think that sound is a human throat?
I saw the gold forks version today for the first time . That's how I ended up here. The engineering of the front forks fascinated me . These days of multiple potholes probably makes it one of the safest bikes to ride.
Thanks for taking considerable effort in this demonstration. It is a great advance and well done to Yamaha for pursuing it. I would be very tempted in this tech if Yamaha made it with a fully enclosed cockpit. What would be good to know also is how ABS impacted your tests and results. Did you still have ABS engaged and did it help mid-corner?
Cheers! We did turn the ABS off, though there's more to come about braking... watch this space (or subscribe!)
MotoGuzziMoto You'd want an enclosed cockpit so you wouldn't have to be seen on it!
@@Tom_Hadler Typical moronic comment from a supercool biker.
Great info although not a surprising result. Some actual numbers would be helpful. For example, just how much faster can you ride the Niken in a corner? what is the lean angle limit? Wet vs. dry performance? Were you using traction control and anti-lock braking? (Just FYI, I have an MP3 500 with traction control and anti-lock braking with the same advantages but without the high performance of the Niken.)
Annoying music or not.... I want a Niken!! :). Great video.
Thank you for this!
Good informative video nut agree about the background nois
what are those bridgestone things called? looks like they can apply a force and lean a stationary bike
cracking test and the results are expected, I recently took a Niken out for a demo and the front end stability is very noticeable, also - its WAY more fun to ride than i expected. :-)
Excellent info chaps. Well done! One thing you didn't mention was the Piaggio MP3, the pioneer in this TTW field - and with the fork legs inside the wheels, not outside. That would have been an obvious addition to the comparo - an MP3 500.
You are talking about mopeds/twist and go, they are testing bikes.
@@ragetobe Those are just names - the principles are exactly the same. I bet you've never ridden an MP3 500! It may be a 'twist'n'go' but it weighs 577lbs (262kg) and does 90mph
@@pnblondon1087 I've ridden just about every single "Bike" I can get my hands on and there is a humungous difference between a twist and go and motorcycle. I had an FS1E that could do 90MPH, it was rebored but it could do it. Mopeds are mopeds, they have their purpose but there is no point in testing a moped against a motorbike, there are so many reasons, just to scratch the surface the skill level for a motorbike is much steeper, if I was an old man I might consider such a thing but I'm 51 and I still have the will to live.
@@ragetobe I beg to differ. The MP3 500 is a lot heavier than an FS1E and is no moped. It's also heavier than an MT-09. I don't know why you think the skill level is 'much steeper' for a motorbike than an MP3 500. And I say that having ridden and raced all manner of two wheelers, both on and off road, from GS1150s and HP2 1200 Enduros on the dirt to half-tonne Ecomobiles and Monotracers around Brno. I've also raced both motorcycles and a Burgman 650 'twist & go' at Le Mans.
@@pnblondon1087 Gears! The same can be applied to a car, basically, a gocart when it's automatic, a child can drive an automatic and when I was a child I did. Gears bring another skill level. Mopeds just are not the same thing, you seem butthurt by this but I am just stating a fact. If I have offended you and your beliefs get over it, I have already. I've toured on several bikes and I can tell you, you won't do that in a hurry on a moped. There is a reason they are out there and I am happy for the people they enable but there is a reason they are called mopeds and not motorbikes. P.S. I have to question why a 492cc moped weighs in at 262kg when my 1250rt is around that weight.
Has anyone else noticed that although they are counter-steering the bars, the front tire does not point toward the outside of the turn like a normal two wheeler does in a counter-steered state. I've watched several videos and this seems to be the case in all of them, hmm. 3:05. So all though the Niken gets the tire(s) to the inside radius of the tire, it does it in a totally different method with all that linkage, and if that's the case, then the fact that it countersteers is an added in affect by the engineers to make it feel and steer like a two wheeler, they could have made it a non-counter-steering mechanism. It seems that the steering mechanism forces a lateral movement to inside radius. Where with a two wheeler, counter steering is a function of the bike folding at the steering head due to the front contact patch being moved off axis with the rest of the bike. Does that make sense to anyone else, or did I have to much sugar today?
Niken's not my pint of Guinness, but you do make some good videos! Cheers!
Thanks! John
real question is given the required skill to master each configuration, which is faster around a sharper corner?
I love how he was worried about damaging the bike and Yamaha being mad and not himself.
im gonna need that outriggers or whatever in my daily commute. i need the confidence!!
What happened with counter steering method?
It's an interesting idea. I'm sure it's got more grip. I would love to have a go on one .
What is it like filtering in traffic ? It's then really heavy and expensive, I really doubt they'll be selling that many of these machines.
ruclips.net/video/GkXzgzLKwFE/видео.html&
Would you do a video on the sound of these three wheelers. I think that the major reason some are slow, including myself, about switching from a Harley is the thrill of the sound. The vibration of that power and the sound that rumbles to one's ears like thunder. I love it, but it just isn't something found in these other brands. I meaning that sound rumbling from the pipes and it is the MAJOR reason I do not switch although I would like to. I don't like trikes, but this NIKEN GT idea is really cool to my taste, but not enough to give up the rolling thunder sound of my HarleyD Ultra. I hope HD is listening and comes out with their own version plus the beautiful sound of those pipes.
I love the music! It’s somewhere available?
If theres a 1200cc i volunteer to test it!
Wow independent tests backs Yamaha. I just wish the bike was in my price range but never mind.
Sure it has more traction in the wet, but I'd like to see what it's actually capable of on a dry track. Then see how well it keeps up with the other bike. It's no good if it's only a one trick pony.
Here you go... ruclips.net/video/jEAEI3VEReQ/видео.html
Nice video, but the music is way too loud, damn.
You, guys, made exactly the same mistake in your test that Germans already did previously in their similar test: YOU CHOSE THE WRONG BIKE! The only straightforward two-wheeled analogue to the NIKEN is Tracer 900. Since NIKEN is, basically, a three-wheeled version of Tracer. So that's the bike you should have to choose for this test, obviously. But you, guys, cheated, and chose the MT-09 instead, which is 21 kg lighter, and has lower center of gravity than the Tracer. That makes this test (MT-09 vs. NIKEN) unfair. Tracer vs. the NIKEN would be the only perfectly fair. But not this.
Skip the music next time
It is a great trike. But it could move better on small rocks. Still I do like the boost and jump functions. ;)
The exhausts are not cleaned after welding in the factory. Quite annoying on the mt series!
I wish I could buy those side wheels (outrig) for my everyday ride.
Filtering would suck!
@Perú Bicampeón de América Riding a bike with these things sticking out would be dangerous!
I think the Niken could dominate on the track if they can figure out a way to shrink the front down so it's not so massive and unwieldy. I also wonder how it compares to just running a single giant 240 tire in the front instead of duel 120's.
The trouble with a single, much larger tyre is that it'd likely be a lot harder to turn - the clever thing with this system is that it's pretty much unnoticeable to the rider.
Since the main goal was to get a larger contact patch, can't we do that on a conventional motorcycle by using a wider front tire ? And if we want to make the breakaway more predictable, why not use a harder rubber compound ?
A wider front tyre would steer poorly and you'd still need more weight over the front to take advantage of the potential for an increased contact patch for that to work.
You have missed the really important point. No the added grip is not unique to the 3 wheelers, you can have it, as you said, just by using a much bigger front tyre or a better rubber compound one.
The important point is the gradual and smooth behaviour before the front end washes out
If you are an average or above average rider this gradual and smooth behaviour, this 'multiple warnings' as the driver is mentioning in the video, will save your butt and your wallet!
@@plinid- Sorry, I didn't explain my idea well. We are in agreement here. I wanted the larger contact patch so the front tire would be less disturbed by road surface imperfections. And I want a harder rubber compound with the intent of allowing that front wheel to slide gradually. It reminds me of riding a 2-stroke Yamaha scooter in Taiwan around 1990. That little bike only had about 7hp, but it could handle aggressively enough to slide either the back or the front. Sliding the front on pavement wasn't really scary, because the rubber was so hard, grip would break away slowly. The one time I crashed was while I wasn't paying attention, because a bump had knocked my trunk open. While slowing to only about 10mph, the front wheel suddenly lost all grip because I was braking on loose dirt. So I hit the ground before realizing what happened.
@@auxpowerunit The harder rubber compound will help, but only in a very limited way. It is all about time duration before completely wash-out. A single tyre will loose grip quite fast, even if it is of a very hard compound (which also has the great disadvantage of low overall grip, so it is not a good solution).
2 front wheels work in a very different way. When the one of the two slips (wash-out) the other has not slipped yet. As a result, its suspension compresses (because it is loaded with more weight than before - the side with the slipped tyre cannot bear the weight so all of it compresses the other). This takes enough time (some seconds!) before the second wheel slips also (if it, eventually, will). This gives plenty of time to the average rider to first panic and then take the appropriate measures (like releasing the pressure on the breaks).
I have experienced this at least twice with my much more humble than the Niken three wheeler (Tricity). I have been saved by this 'early warning' signal and although I panicked, I didn't fall. In every other 2 wheeler I would.
@@plinid Good point. The other issue is the single wheel has more "unsprung mass" than each of the Niken's smaller wheels. So it can't respond to surface imperfections as quickly.
Interesting concept. This could be a way to make bikes faster than cars around bends - more grip. Two real wheels + leaning might be even better?
This might add a little bit of grip but at the expense of weight, weight distribution and inertia.
Superbikes already pull 1g+ on corners on road tires, it's not actually the lateral grip they lack compared to cars. It's the fact that transitions have to be smooth as losing grip at any point can mean crashing (where as a momentary loss of traction on a car is no big deal) and they can't brake as hard because the rear wheel comes off the ground.
If you put a superbike and a supercar on a skidpad they'll be pretty even. Put them through a series of consecutive slow corners and the car is gone, and at the end of a straight the bike has to start braking twice as far from the corner.
@@BigUriel Thanks, interesting response. Continuing with this line of thinking, this suggests the Niken might be quicker because it's more stable, ie this problem with momentary losses of grip is not present as it is on a 2 wheel bike - no?
I’m not ready to go for the Niken but it is a bike and it looks like fun, I can see that if I was older this might give me that little extra to carry on riding. Upon pricing one of these to the level I would my BMW r1250 Rt it’s hard to ignore how expensive this thing is. £22k for a full spec and it’s an 800cc, the pannier and top box are small and a completely unusable shape. I’m not sure they have their maths right, nobody is paying this much for that bike surely.
Can countersteer be applied on the Niken aswell?
Yeah it rides like a motorcycle. Leans into a turn
what caused the bikes to lose traction? you were nowhere near the maximum lean angle when you see them jump.
Front brake
It's hard to pay attention with the music
So what's the conclusion? The Niken inspires more confidence and increases limits but is ultimately slower than the mt09 because of the weight?
That's one way to look at it, though the limits in a corner are at much lower speeds than the top-end that's shaved off the Niken.
More bike action would have been interesting, just the chat and odd clip did not really show the difference that well chaps.
I also say get rid of that damn music or let it play gently in the back round not in your face.... shesh!
the music is much more faster than the motorcycle itself
Great test and review. If I could afford it, I'd get a Niken, but it's just out of reach for me.
with a 3k deposit, yamaha said i could have one for £150 a month on PCP, if your interested then maybe a pcp deal would be the way to go?
Does the outrigger only work on the MT09 chassis?
There are riding schools that take toy out with those in the wet. I seen it on RUclips. Different bikes
Outriggers could work on any bike in theory. We borrowed them from California Superbike School, but the tricky bit was building a frame that'd safely hang them from the chassis. To fit these to another bike, you'd need to build a different frame.
@@bennettsbikesocial Thanks very much for the reply. That makes perfect sense and I am willing to do that as we have an 04 GSXR 750that will be the dedicated test mule. We have a local fabricator that is willing to build the cage and he needs to know the attachment points to start.
@@CatalystReactionSBW Brilliant! Keep in touch through our email as that sounds really interesting!
Why three wheels? Because a set of supersport tyres aren't expensive enough
Once the two frontwheels of my Yamaha Tricity lost contact in a curve on a icy street. Me, rolling over the street, couldn´t find a difference in falling from a two wheel bike. ;-)
Very cool test.
The mt09 also had a far tighter line.
Chris Northover over here.
I can see how the niken would have a grip advantage when pushed to its limits, but the extra weight means it could never be a competitive racer anyway. In normal road riding the extra grip would be redundant and the extra weight a liability. So i strikes me as an interesting design idea, with no real practical application.
You could increase the grip further by adding two extra wheels instead of one - they are called 'cars'.
Exactly. It seems that today's conventional motorcycles with ABS, traction control, IMU, anti wheelie 'nanny controls' simply cannot provide the level of grip/safety that some people demand. I say they need to improve their RIDING skills rather than ride this high tech, overly complex TRIKE.
Watches video, scratches head. Watches video, scratches head. Goes for a 100 mile fun ride on my "old school" FJ 1100 to clear my thoughts.
As the tech gets better, I can see more of these three wheeled bikes being offered from all the big manufacturers.
I can't. They are dreadful things. Two sets of front tyres to replace and two sets of forks to service. No thanks.
@@rharris8344 I get that they're not for everyone. Thanks for your reply!
@@rharris8344An all-too-common misconception. ruclips.net/video/awLjDubi0ko/видео.html
Not exactly a new concept.
@@kinguin7 I never said it was.
Music too loud but thanks for the content!
Great video but what's with the terrible music?????
I'm the only one who liked the music and the audio mixing I guess? (I Used to work as a mix engineer)
Testing on a smooth track built for racing. I'd like to see that tested on country roads in Australia, or even in some suburbs. You'd come off and I'm pretty sure you would end up with some pretty serious injuries.
Well if you were to ride the bike normally and not jam on the front brakes going round a corner in the wet, you'll be fine.
Jake nice pic jdm life I’m going to a huge car meet in Australia tomorrow could downshift
On RUclips search up forza horizon 4 Nissan r32 and go to the most recent video by jg gaming I would appreciate it
You don't need to ride like a knob to appreciate what having more grip on the front does for you.
@@Mu4dD1b15 I'm not disagreeing, i ride a bike myself and I definitely appreciate front grip.
Like listening to the monster from 'the ring'
I’m sold on the Niken
Music to aid the vomitting process.
Why the mt09, should have used the tracer, it is more alike!
Rebel13 The Niken is based on the MT09 isn’t it?
@@yoorukhunt947 The MT was the first model design with engine, drive and the like, however the FJ - Tracer is nearly identical to it except the one or two wheel difference mainly. Simply look at all three bikes, it is obvious. The mt is a naked sport standard where as both fj and niken are half faired sport tour standards.
Lost me with the music...
Well of course having more weight on a tire that's built to have more weight on it is going to give you better grip than having that same tire on a bike that weighs a lot less. It's physics.
the rave in the next field over should keep it down
Scary test
So the moral to this clip is don’t brake on corners guys
So what we've learnt is outriggers save u expensive bills in repairs. Nice.
They don't look very practical for lane splitting though.
Name song theme?
Yeah but who is really stabbing the brakes like that mid corner on their motorcycles in the wet?
Only those that have no riding experience or lack even the most basic riding skills.
Ok sir
Two tyres have more grip than one. Wow. Who would have thought it. You really proved those Yamaha engineers right. Ffs
It also weighs more though.
GRH Yes
Those 18 wheelers are gonna dominate racing, aren't they?
Kowalski no. Just no. No no no no no. In a straight line weight pushing down on a tyre is a good thing and will provide more traction. But bikes lean over so more weight will try to push the wheel away. Hence two tyres at the front have more grip because they can spread that load over two surface areas. Grip is more about tyre compounds, pressure, surface contact area etc.
You have missed the really important point. No the added grip is not unique to the 3 wheelers, you can have it just by using a much bigger front tyre.
The important point is the gradual and smooth behaviour before the front end washes out, that will save your butt and your wallet. Do you really watched all the video?
I wasn't sceptical at all...
Imagine having to intentionally crash a bike
there's a thing yamaha did called r&d so duhh of course it works.
anyways I'd buy it simply because it is unlike any other
Turn the music up louder please
And flashing lights
-fingers in ears- lose the LOUD music, it adds nothing and annoys a great deal. Otherwise a great video.
Why is that god awful music four times the volume of the voices?
I don't think using the tires for the niken on the 09 was fair. You could have just as easily put the 09s tires on the niken and had a completely different result. The best test is having both bikes run the tires they are designed to run. That what it will be in the real world...
Using two different tires for this test would be poor experimental design. When you’re comparing the effects of the two motorcycle geometries, you want to isolate as many variables as possible, not add confounding factors that you won’t be able to account for. That’s why you use the same tire during the testing.
If you then want to account for tire differences between the bikes, you can compare the two different tires on the same bike, and isolate that factor.
@@Vessekx I see what you're saying but this experiment is so far away from being scientific that one extra variable isn't going to make much difference. I look at it like this. If you were to try to compare the cornering grip of a car with a motorcycle it wouldnt exactly be fair to put car tires on the bike. Sure they both have the same tires then but one is put at a disadvantage while the other isn't.
The experiment wasn't testing tires. It was testing which bike had better grip. By putting the wrong tires on one bike it kind of invalidates it's results.
This episode is proudly sponsored by yamaha uk 😬😬
Seriously tho love the niken !
The music sounds like a teen burping a song. And did they answer the damn question?