So my understanding is the material shielding is a more like a superset to a faraday cage. Even with ungrounded shield, you MAY get some benefits of shielding. A faraday cage essentially takes the EM signal away to be grounded. In the case of a guitar, since you really can't have a perfect faraday cage, you are really only always working with partial shielding. Stranger type of shielding can be seen on the likes of suhr, where copper tapes are only places in strategic places.
I learned a lot in these last 6 years I have been studying guitar building, but a good 70% I owe it to you, Chris! Thank you from the bottom of my heart
All passive guitars must be correctly shielded. It won't lower the already very little hum of single coils (only humbuckers make no hum) but it drastically suppress all high frequency hiss, I recently shielded a chinese Strat, the difference is extraordinary. Before shielding when I used heavy metal pedals there were plenty of high freq. noises, hiss, whistlings and interferences, after shielding all heavily distorted and metal sounds are pure without any hiss or high freq. noises. The single coil hum is not an issue most of the time, it is hardly audible even in full distortion. I have to listen really carefully to hear the hum, the difference is tiny when switching to humbuckers, you can experience this if you have a Strat with for instance one humbucker and two single coils, or 3 single coils built for humbucking in position 2 and 4. Edit : Of course the vibrato cavity does not have to be shielded ! When I was younger and played on a tube amp I used to place a fuse between the wire going to the vibrato and the vibrato behind the back plate of my Strats because I heard of 2 or 3 guitar players who died when a liquid (or rain on stage) falled into their tube amps which sends high voltage to the guitar, they were killed when touching the guitar strings, and I read that puting a fuse can save your life in this situation.
on a friend’s so-called « noiseless » usa Jazz5 bass, the buzz noise when not touching the strings was absolutely terrible, and has been eliminated by shielding both pickup (stacked double coils with no shielding whatsoever - unbelievable) cavities. So yes, based on my experience shielding the pickup cavities does help a lot !
Wood is naturally non conductive. It would be a great idea to make a video with 2 guitars, one shielded and one without shielding to hear what they sound like in and out of the presence of fluorescent lamps and a few amplifiers that could potentially feed back when in proximity.
'Feedback' is an entirely different concept; involving sound pressure kinetic energy causing resonance in the instrument that in turn creates oscillation between the amp's speaker coil and the guitar pickup - a self-reinforcing [+] feedback loop. Which, as it happens, also defines the dynamics of anthropogenic global warming...
I shielded a Squier Classic Vibe Strat. The difference was night and day. It cut out 80-90% of the hum. The key is doing it correctly. Continuity. If youre joining multiple pieces, make sure you use copper tape with conductive adhesive. I used conductive adhesive tape AND soldeted the joints. It wasnt necesdsry but I like redundancy if its posdible. Aluminum foil works but its difficult to solder. Use more heat with foil. If you have multiple cavities, like a Strat, use wire jumpers to keep your continuity. Make sure your shielding on the pickguard is touching the cavity shielding when its put back together. It made a huge difference on my cheap Strat. I only connected it to the ground screw.
Great information, thank you! In addition to Copper Tape, I have also used Faraday shielding tape for RF, EMF, ... when grounding is not possible in wireless signal transmission instruments. It's made of Nickel/Copper coated fabric that blocks EM & RF up to 40GHz.
This kind of shielding is highly effective, but only against "electrical" disturbances. Ground loops should be impossible in a passive guitar, as there are no potential static voltage differences, which could cause those loops. "Magnetic" influences would need to be shielded by mu- metal - which appears impractical for a guitar, for cost and weight reasons. It would also negatively impact the pickup functionality.
I am impressed by your broad technical skills and understanding as well as your ability to communicate it simply. Do you have any tips for getting a well balanced acoustic mag pickup with a bright and even sound?
What a great channel! Thank you so much for being so generous with your knowledge. Doing my first (of hopefully many) build and you have been a HUGE help.
a ground loop can also cause problems in a passive circuit but with a different mechanism. it can create an antenna that picks up radio frequency interference.
Ok great vids just stumbled across you tonight. Got a question about shielding. You mention that the pickup wiring has shielding around the different wires coming from the pickup and that shield should be grounded too. Question how could that be done. Also the bare ground wire running through thst shielding gets grounded to the back of one of the pots. So with that said would the shielding be grounded to. I’m just trying to learn everything I can about guitar building and wiring
My bass is noisy then is quiet when you touch the potentiometer knob. My power source is not grounded. Will copper tape and a wire from the 1/4 inch jack to the copper tape work because it would save me labor costs probably
Thanks for the Crystalac demo just ordered some .I've been looking for a less toxic finish system. I must say the people at Crystalac are amazing people, best customer service I've ever encountered and they have a luither division. That means your going to talk to a luither which is so very helpful . It's a family business ( no corporate BS) just people who are doing a great job. I can't convey how good their customer service is. If their product is half as good as their customer service. They have a customer for life.
Copper tape which does NOT have conductive adhesive can also be used: the trick is to overlap the pieces as usual, then clean the surface with surgical spirits or meths; let it dry fully, then add a drop of solder at the edge of the overlapping pieces; use a large enough soldering iron, and with the iron tip 'tinned' with solder, holding the tip on the tape and adding a bit more solder should allow the solder to flow and electrically link the pieces of tape. This will also work with plastic scratch-plates, as the soldering iron will only be in contact with the copper foil for a couple of seconds. You won't need many solder 'bridges', just be sure that ALL of the copper tape is electrically joined together. Something to watch out for: some tape advertised as "copper tape" actually has a surface coating (which prevents the tape discolouring as it oxidises) which is non-conductive. Not much use for guitar screening! As almost all rolls of multicore solder (containing flux to help the solder to make a more reliable bond) are now 'lead-free' you need a more powerful soldering iron, as it has a much higher melting point than the older 'leaded' solder. It is very important that you obtain and use 'leaded' solder when repairing older guitars: the new lead-free stuff does not mix well with the original solder, and can result in 'cold' or high-resistance joints after a few years. And finally: make sure that you slightly abrade the rear of any pot bodies if you will be soldering the pickup earths to them: the solder will spread much more easily. I use a small piece of 400 grit wet and dry paper.
Thank you. Just discovered your channel. I shielded a guitar for the first time but I did not ground it. Hey, I did not know. I do now because you told me. I was wondering why it did not work. 🤔🤣You have new Subscriber and a Thumbs up! 👍
I thought I remembered Dan Erlewine in an article in the Guild of American Lutherie talking about building a Tele with no shielding to get more high end. Is there anything to this idea? Great video, by the way, thank you.
Yes, there is. With single-coil pickups, a small amount of the treble frequencies can end up going to ground whether the guitar is shielded or not. Adding additional shielding can send even more of the treble frequencies to ground, possibly more than is desired. The trade-off is a noisy guitar.
Thank you Otto Waalkes. I will give it a try on my Jaguar where's a lot electronics. I Always see videos and pictures with tape under the pickups but this is no faradic cage, what's the effort of that?
I read thru all the comments and am confused. If the control cavity is shielded, doesn’t the metal on the pot/shaft contact it and thus become grounded? The pot housing is the ground so it seems soldering a wire to the cavity tape from the output jack is redundant but would not cause a ground loop. I am new to this so forgive if dumb question.
You are very correct that shielding only works on parts that run on unshielded wires, so won't work if the cavity cover is not shielded. If the metal foil works under the pickup, humbucker is much less meaningful except for a different tone. Instead of copper foil, should HVAC aluminum tape and BBQ tin foil perform the same? I assume with the wide coverage, the resistance should pretty much be 0 ohm.
Those should work, the issue is getting them all connected where they overlap. It can be tricky soldering on aluminum. The copper tape is just much easier to work with.
True that copper is much easier to work with regarding soldering, and I agree the adhesive may not be conductive on aluminum tape. But since all potentiometer cases were grounded by wires, like mine I assume, and they are all screwed to the metal foil inside the cavity, the foil is already grounded, practically there's no need to solder the foils together, if separated pieces are used.
I dont know anything about electrics or grounding, but I do get noise from different venues and really want to try sheilding! Quick question, is there anyway I could mess it all up and it become dangerous to me?
Interesting video thank you! So, assuming we get a lot of relief from RF by doing this, can we assume that any remaining interference is coming directly from the pole pieces of the pickups?
I soldered my copper tape shielding(with a wire) to the back of my tone pot, but I saw people usually do it to the volume pot, but I didn't noticed a difference.
@HighlineGuitars the tone pot had a little more solder so I was able to solder the tinned wire in it easier then heat up the volume pot and add it, I almost did what you said and added to the ground of the output jack
A curiosity I've had on cavity shielding for a while now in terms of grounding. Wouldn't the cavity-to-components ground be completed from the pots, toggle switch, and output jack all making contact with the conductive surface of the cavity? I shielded a guitar about 15yrs ago and once I was finished I got a very loud 60-cycle whenever I'd touch the strings, pickups, etc. However, once I removed the ground wire that connected to the cavity and I was left with a shielded cavity with just a normal wiring setup the result I ended up with was a guitar that is so quiet that I almost can't tell if it's turned up or down. lol
thanks for these kinds of videos. It's important to clear up confusion about confusing topics. Grounding has many confusions as there are 3 sorts of ground
Interesting thoughts! I have been using shielded wires for wiring instead of shielding copper for many years, but the shield as ground is a good argument !
The 3 way switch in a Les Paul is not shielded, so it can pick up noise even if you use shielded cable to connect it. This becomes quite noticeable when you split the humbuckers. So, any guitar with single coil pickups or splittable humbuckers should have shielded cavities along with shielded cabling.
Every guitar where I have COMPLETELY shielded all cavities with copper tape sounded lifeless because it always cut WAY too much of the high frequencies out of the guitar tone itself. Especially Stratocasters. If I buy a used one with a copper tape job inside I immediately tear that stuff out and *poof*, the guitar sounds 5X more open and clear. But I am wondering if there is some sort of way to "semi-shield" a guitar circuit? Basically any way to get some sort of noise reduction but not kill the inherent sparkle and tone of the guitar completely. This has frustrated me for years... Trying to find that magic balance.
Yank out all of the shielding and replace all of the wiring with single core, shielded wire (make sure one end of the wire’s shield is soldered to ground) or use an Electro-Harmonix Hum Debugger pedal.
I had a custom wiring schematic drawn for me by guitarelectronics.com/ I eliminated the ground wire connection (except where the ground is supplied by the jack) and used the copper foil to supply the ground connection to each component.
I believe there's some misconception here, a faraday cage/bag does not need to be grounded to be effective against EMF (but it doesn't hurt to have it grounded I suppose).
Sigh... any grounded component in contact with the shielding will ground the shielding. FYI, every component on the control cavity is grounded and is in contact with the shielding.
Thanks for the great content. I have a question for which I couldn't find an answer anywhere. I use a guitar wireless system, so the guitar is not connected to the grounding of the electricity outlet by a cable. In this scenario, will I benefit from shielding my guitar to reduce the noise? And where does the noise end up in the first place when there is no connection to outlet ground, such as when using a wireless system?
I'm using a wireless system as well and shielded 2 of my guitars (1 LP with humbuckers and an old Japanese Strat like guitar with 3 single coils). It did make a difference. Iirc the wireless system is using the negative of the battery as a kind of ground. Much like a cell phone or car. At least, that's what I understood. I wouldn't bet my money on it tho haha
I know you had a follow up video dispelling the ground loop myth. I will say that your pots are more shielded than open coil pickups and that if you’re using shielded wire for your whole guitar then you may not notice too much difference. Also, you should test just shielding the pickup cavity and nothing else vs no shielding at all. You will notice a difference. The pickups are what pickup most of the interference. Another thing is you don’t have to shield the entire control cavity. Just shield the underside where the pots sit then make sure your wires are laying on the shielding than lay a piece of shielding tape over the wire and this functions the same as shielded wire.
thank you for the information, but if the ground from the pickups and the bridge is connected to the pots and the jack, isn't enough just to shield the electronics cavity without grounding the coper shield? and if the grounds are properly connected, is the shielding even necessary?
So if the control cavity is shielded and connected to a grounded pot, and all cavities that have foil are connected to ground then the output jack only needs to be grounded to its cavity without a ground wire running all the way to the control cavity? Makes sense. I shielded my Strat and it’s dead quiet so I must’ve done it right. I paid the extra cost for copper foil because it’s a whole lot easier to solder to than aluminum. I tested that theory before shielding and there was no question copper is better. Also used the paint. Works but I’ll use tape from now on.
Just wanting to clarify. If I have a prewired guitar grounded to back of the pot, can I run a cable from there to the coper tape? Or is it best to ground everything to the coper tape?
If the grounded pot is in contact with the copper shielding and all of the other components are in contact with the shielding, you don’t need to do anything else.
I also understand worrying about ground loops in guitar wiring is misapplying concepts, but it often promotes neat and tidy wiring and soldering, so yeah sure, why not stick to star grounding and things like that. :)
I have a recipe for graphite grounding paint or faraday paint (somewhere). It uses graphite and being slick may cause a lack of tack for the copper tape to adhere to. I need to test this first! But, if it does in fact work, is there or would there be any benefit to coating the cavities with grounding or faraday paint before applying the copper tape?
This is interesting but really it cannot actually be a Faraday cage because the pickups and parts of the switches and knobs are exposed. I am building a guitar now and wondering if its worth doing the tape or not.
You are right, it's not a true Faraday cage. That being admitted, shielding does work, but only when done properly and when the environment is plagued with RF interference. Shielding in a guitar usually can't attenuate 100% of the RF interference the guitar will be exposed to, but it can reduce it to a bearable level. The decision to shield or not really comes down to knowing how much RF interference exists where the guitar will be played. Proper grounding is key, however it can only do so much to attenuate RF interference. Any exposed component (pickups, signal wires) will act as an antenna for RF interference. Copper or aluminum foil tape will help to shield signal wires, but unless you cover the pickups in a grounded metal cover with no holes or other openings, they will attract RF interference.
I watched your CNC video and was just curious if you've tried compression bits. They are designed to work at a minimum depth as opposed to the upcuts and down cuts which have a depth limit.
I have always enjoyed your videos, but I have to point out that it is impossible to create a ground loop in a passive guitar circuit. There is no current and all grounds terminate at a single point (output jack). Additionally, in order to have a Faraday cage, you would have to completely enclose the circuit. However, this is impossible because the guitar pickups are exposed.
@@HighlineGuitars I applaud your effort to wade into this topic. You are brave. People seem to get shielding from external noise sources and wiring to prevent ground loops confused.
@@HighlineGuitars just wanted to tell you that I enjoy your videos, and I really love your guitar builds! I have not built a guitar completely from scratch, mainly because I don’t have the facilities to do so. I live in an apartment, and I have a patio without a screen, so even painting is somewhat difficult. Although Although, I have built numerous guitars from unfinished necks and bodies, andI think I do a excellent job for my circumstances, as I have received many compliments. I am a master at soldering, as I have been working with electronics since I was 14. Just over 37 years. On top of that, the fact that I’m a woman, which for some reason, makes some people think that I’m at a disadvantage. Would love to know how to get the copper shielding that you use.!
i would guess that the reason that some pickups are noisier when the guitar is in a particular position than another is that there is a 'hole' in the shielding which is allowing more hum that is coming from the source of the strongest 60 or 50 hertz producing item...in most cases a transformer. I wonder if it would be a solution to put another transformer 180 degrees in orientation to the problem transformer to cancel out the hum.
I want to shield my control cavity but I’m not sure I understand where the ground wire to the copper tape should be soldered to? To make a long story short, can I solder the wire to the top of any of my four pots? And lastly, should I shield the selector switch cavity as well and what about a ground wire to shielding in there too?
Solder the ground wire from the jack to the back of the closest pot. It doesn't really matter which pot, but the closest one to jack means a shorter wire, which is a good thing. As long as the pots are in contact with the shield, the shield will be grounded. Also, if all of the pots are in contact with the shielding, there's no need to run ground wires to each pot. The selector switch should be grounded by a wire running from the back of one the pots, which is grounded by its contact with the shielding in the control cavity. You don't have to shield the switch cavity, but it won't hurt. And as long as the switch is touching the shielding where it is mounted, the shielding will be grounded as well.
If you shielded a pickup with a metal backplate and metal cover (such as a soapbar style pickup), wouldn't you essentially mute the pickup? The point of the Faraday cage is to keep out signals, and the whole point of the pickup is to pick up the signal coming from the string.
No. A pickup is a transducer. It detects the string's mechanical vibrations and converts that energy to an electrical signal. Backplates and covers can block or mute some frequencies of vibration, but certainly not all of them. If they did, no pickup made would feature them.
I figured out a way to use regular ass HVAC, aluminum, duct tape. The stuff that all the RUclips videos told me I couldn't use. The same trick works for so many other things. You can run speakers, LED lights, temporary automotive wiring, and some grounds and you can run some stuff for hundreds of of feet. You can turn a 100' roll into 200, 300, 400 feet. When I finally figured it out and my multi meter was showing zero for continuity. I did my old 82 blazer that had always hummed and it's perfect. I then sent video to my buddy in California and he showed our friend who is a guitar tech. I hope he uses tf out of it.
@@HighlineGuitars Electrically speaking, this is not a ground loop. A lot of guitars are factory "double grounded". So, how could it not be a systematic issue ?
@@HighlineGuitars If you believe a ground loop can produce hum in guitar, please make sure that you actually record a physical loop actually producing excess noise. Just take one of your shielded guitars, and add the wire links between pots you suggested should be avoided. Record the noise level. Then cut the wires and record again. Many people hold that the potential difference in the ground lines necessary for a physical loop to cause current to flow and thus produce hum does not exist in a guitar.
Ground loops are not possible in the very low voltage present (millivolts in fact) in a guitar. An old tube amp that is not updated to current wiring standards can introduce noise and dangerous levels of voltage and current though.
I like to use shielded wire, where ever there is a hot wire a ground wire should cover it and a shielding paint, it is to much of a hassle to apply the copper tape and connect them all.
Well my P Bass...if your finger touches the strings or the bridge or the jack/ cable it's quiet. But if you take your fingers/ hand away it's noisy. I have no such issue on my Telecaster or Strat. Just the bass.
Thank you for this info. I have an 85 Strat. When I strum and my finger tips touch the pick guard I hear little static discharge pops. Would it help to shield and ground the underside of the pick guard?
I'm barely qualified to answer your question, but it's possible you just have builtup static charges. It's winter and the air is getting dry, which is when this tends to happen. Try to find a dryer sheet that isn't scented and rub it on the outside surface of your pickguard. This sounds trivial but it genuinely works if static is the problem. I was experiencing this with my tele a few years ago and it was December at the time. Once I removed the static, the "popping" noises were gone. If that doesn't work, then you have a problem that is beyond my capabilities.
I use conductive paint on Poly guitars. I have two Nitro guitars that I'm going to use foil tape on because I don't want to ruin the paint if I get sloppy. Fender started shielding their guitars in 2006. You can check outlets with a cheap plug in outlet tester.
i anderstand that grounding the shielding of your guitar is a very important fact - does this mean, that if you plug in to a wireless signal transmission (radio) instead of a guitar cable, the shielding is useless?
Shielding the pickups might help a little bit, but shielding the electronics does nothing. If you try to shield single coil pickups, it does very little because the cycle hum will always be there. You need a dummy coil or a mod to remove that.
@@HighlineGuitars I have never seen a situation in which shielding the electronics actually reduces noise, except obviously if someone wires the guitar wrong.
I read an article recently that claimed shielding single coil pickup cavities can actually take away some of the treble or brightness and is frowned upon by some. Ever hear of this? I wish I could recall the author of the article but my old age has been catching up to me lol.
My 90's deluxe plus is shield ed from the factory. Lace sensor pups. My Les Paul was not shielded from the factory and I changed the pots and wiring making sure to resolder the ground. Would all I need to do is stick some tape inside and that would shield a grounded system?
In my old two wire house I hear everything from ceiling fans to my neighbors power drill through my amp. I just tune it out. Got a highway i tune out nearby as well. Old tube amp. Sloppy wired pedalboard. Picking up radio signals is fun to me. So it depends on how much the user cares / environment / electrical situation / pickup choices if shielding matters
I used to feel that the thin aluminum tape in the pick guards I've seen was a recipe for cheap circuitry (static from the plastic having an affect on the aluminum). I connect everything directly with wires. When I solder electronics, I make sure that the wires are directly in contact with the components and not rely on the solder to complete the circuit, also I try not to burn the solder leaving mirror shine on them. When you cook solder, it starts to look like crumpled up aluminum. That's why I don't pre-solder. A friend of mine was impressed by how well my guitar was grounded (absolutely no buzz or hum when I'm not touching my strings) and it has no shielding. I got shielding paint more for aesthetics. I plan to paint the pickup cavity and add one coat of oil finish over it. I've never heard of ground loop but I do plan to paint the control cavity with shielding paint and then connect everything with wires so I will keep your info in mind and see if ground looping does happen.
![GUITAR SHIELDING 101: A [Relatively] Quick Guide to Working with Foil Tape](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-mLBo4y9t8Y/mqdefault.jpg)
So my understanding is the material shielding is a more like a superset to a faraday cage. Even with ungrounded shield, you MAY get some benefits of shielding. A faraday cage essentially takes the EM signal away to be grounded. In the case of a guitar, since you really can't have a perfect faraday cage, you are really only always working with partial shielding. Stranger type of shielding can be seen on the likes of suhr, where copper tapes are only places in strategic places.
I learned a lot in these last 6 years I have been studying guitar building, but a good 70% I owe it to you, Chris! Thank you from the bottom of my heart
Wow, thanks!
If you play an unshielded guitar on stage, remember to take your cell phone out of your pocket. It causes all kinds of noise.
lol just dealt with this with our bass player lol
@@whocarescameraj1809really? I always thought that was a myth.
@@onlyusernameleft2 nope
not a myth
All passive guitars must be correctly shielded. It won't lower the already very little hum of single coils (only humbuckers make no hum) but it drastically suppress all high frequency hiss, I recently shielded a chinese Strat, the difference is extraordinary. Before shielding when I used heavy metal pedals there were plenty of high freq. noises, hiss, whistlings and interferences, after shielding all heavily distorted and metal sounds are pure without any hiss or high freq. noises. The single coil hum is not an issue most of the time, it is hardly audible even in full distortion. I have to listen really carefully to hear the hum, the difference is tiny when switching to humbuckers, you can experience this if you have a Strat with for instance one humbucker and two single coils, or 3 single coils built for humbucking in position 2 and 4. Edit : Of course the vibrato cavity does not have to be shielded ! When I was younger and played on a tube amp I used to place a fuse between the wire going to the vibrato and the vibrato behind the back plate of my Strats because I heard of 2 or 3 guitar players who died when a liquid (or rain on stage) falled into their tube amps which sends high voltage to the guitar, they were killed when touching the guitar strings, and I read that puting a fuse can save your life in this situation.
The fact that I bought a $1000 bass and still had to shield it is ridiculous. Pick gaurd static shouldn't be a thing in 2024
@@arbogast4950 Yeah Spector used to be good at not having this happen. These days? Dont know since company sold in 2019
How I felt in 2019 buying a brand new g and l JB 2
on a friend’s so-called « noiseless » usa Jazz5 bass, the buzz noise when not touching the strings was absolutely terrible, and has been eliminated by shielding both pickup (stacked double coils with no shielding whatsoever - unbelievable) cavities. So yes, based on my experience shielding the pickup cavities does help a lot !
Wood is naturally non conductive. It would be a great idea to make a video with 2 guitars, one shielded and one without shielding to hear what they sound like in and out of the presence of fluorescent lamps and a few amplifiers that could potentially feed back when in proximity.
'Feedback' is an entirely different concept; involving sound pressure kinetic energy causing resonance in the instrument that in turn creates oscillation between the amp's speaker coil and the guitar pickup - a self-reinforcing [+] feedback loop.
Which, as it happens, also defines the dynamics of anthropogenic global warming...
@@Deebz270 i shouldve bought an acoustic man why do i have to be a scientist to have a good tone 😭😭😭😭
@@Deebz270 Yep, ie: #ritchieBlackmore ! 😉🤘🏼
I shielded a Squier Classic Vibe Strat. The difference was night and day.
It cut out 80-90% of the hum.
The key is doing it correctly.
Continuity. If youre joining multiple pieces, make sure you use copper tape with conductive adhesive. I used conductive adhesive tape AND soldeted the joints. It wasnt necesdsry but I like redundancy if its posdible.
Aluminum foil works but its difficult to solder. Use more heat with foil. If you have multiple cavities, like a Strat, use wire jumpers to keep your continuity.
Make sure your shielding on the pickguard is touching the cavity shielding when its put back together.
It made a huge difference on my cheap Strat.
I only connected it to the ground screw.
I just did this, is it ruined? Do I need to take apart the springs again?
@@aaroncarr3413wdym is it ruined? I’m thinking of doing this as well how did it work for you
This is a *perfect video on this subject. Its all about the minor details.
Bravo.
Great information, thank you! In addition to Copper Tape, I have also used Faraday shielding tape for RF, EMF, ... when grounding is not possible in wireless signal transmission instruments. It's made of Nickel/Copper coated fabric that blocks EM & RF up to 40GHz.
what about 5g? does it block it? i don't want the government listening in on my killer riffage!
This kind of shielding is highly effective, but only against "electrical" disturbances. Ground loops should be impossible in a passive guitar, as there are no potential static voltage differences, which could cause those loops. "Magnetic" influences would need to be shielded by mu- metal - which appears impractical for a guitar, for cost and weight reasons. It would also negatively impact the pickup functionality.
I am impressed by your broad technical skills and understanding as well as your ability to communicate it simply. Do you have any tips for getting a well balanced acoustic mag pickup with a bright and even sound?
What a great channel! Thank you so much for being so generous with your knowledge. Doing my first (of hopefully many) build and you have been a HUGE help.
A ground loop can not happen in a passive guitar circuit , too many grounding points are a common problem in tube amp designs .
a ground loop can also cause problems in a passive circuit but with a different mechanism. it can create an antenna that picks up radio frequency interference.
Ok great vids just stumbled across you tonight. Got a question about shielding. You mention that the pickup wiring has shielding around the different wires coming from the pickup and that shield should be grounded too. Question how could that be done. Also the bare ground wire running through thst shielding gets grounded to the back of one of the pots. So with that said would the shielding be grounded to. I’m just trying to learn everything I can about guitar building and wiring
My bass is noisy then is quiet when you touch the potentiometer knob. My power source is not grounded. Will copper tape and a wire from the 1/4 inch jack to the copper tape work because it would save me labor costs probably
Thanks for the Crystalac demo just ordered some .I've been looking for a less toxic finish system.
I must say the people at Crystalac are amazing people, best customer service I've ever encountered and they have a luither division. That means your going to talk to a luither which is so very helpful . It's a family business ( no corporate BS) just people who are doing a great job. I can't convey how good their customer service is. If their product is half as good as their customer service. They have a customer for life.
Great video. Would shield underneath the Bridge?
Not needed.
@@HighlineGuitars thank you !!!
Use a multimeter or ohm meter to test continuity especially if you have multiple joints.
Copper tape which does NOT have conductive adhesive can also be used: the trick is to overlap the pieces as usual, then clean the surface with surgical spirits or meths; let it dry fully, then add a drop of solder at the edge of the overlapping pieces; use a large enough soldering iron, and with the iron tip 'tinned' with solder, holding the tip on the tape and adding a bit more solder should allow the solder to flow and electrically link the pieces of tape. This will also work with plastic scratch-plates, as the soldering iron will only be in contact with the copper foil for a couple of seconds. You won't need many solder 'bridges', just be sure that ALL of the copper tape is electrically joined together. Something to watch out for: some tape advertised as "copper tape" actually has a surface coating (which prevents the tape discolouring as it oxidises) which is non-conductive. Not much use for guitar screening! As almost all rolls of multicore solder (containing flux to help the solder to make a more reliable bond) are now 'lead-free' you need a more powerful soldering iron, as it has a much higher melting point than the older 'leaded' solder. It is very important that you obtain and use 'leaded' solder when repairing older guitars: the new lead-free stuff does not mix well with the original solder, and can result in 'cold' or high-resistance joints after a few years. And finally: make sure that you slightly abrade the rear of any pot bodies if you will be soldering the pickup earths to them: the solder will spread much more easily. I use a small piece of 400 grit wet and dry paper.
Thank you. Just discovered your channel. I shielded a guitar for the first time but I did not ground it. Hey, I did not know. I do now because you told me. I was wondering why it did not work. 🤔🤣You have new Subscriber and a Thumbs up! 👍
I copper shield my fretboard, looks pretty cool!
Thanks for the video! Answered a LOT of questions. And made a HUGE difference with the new #EMG P/JX Pups! 🤘🏼🤘🏼
Very nice, Thanks ! SO, do I even bother to shield a strat cavity, because the pickups are right there ? Thanks again ! Philip.
If your guitar is noisy, shielding it might help even with the pickups right there.
Thank you, I`m gonna go ahead and do it !!! Philip.
I thought I remembered Dan Erlewine in an article in the Guild of American Lutherie talking about building a Tele with no shielding to get more high end. Is there anything to this idea? Great video, by the way, thank you.
Yes, there is. With single-coil pickups, a small amount of the treble frequencies can end up going to ground whether the guitar is shielded or not. Adding additional shielding can send even more of the treble frequencies to ground, possibly more than is desired. The trade-off is a noisy guitar.
@@HighlineGuitars so interesting -- I always wondered if that could really be true, but figured Dan knew what he was doing.
Great video, thanks for sharing 🎸
Thank you Otto Waalkes. I will give it a try on my Jaguar where's a lot electronics. I Always see videos and pictures with tape under the pickups but this is no faradic cage, what's the effort of that?
Would running an amp through a power conditioner ensure that there is a good ground regardless of what's happening with the mains?
No!
I read thru all the comments and am confused. If the control cavity is shielded, doesn’t the metal on the pot/shaft contact it and thus become grounded? The pot housing is the ground so it seems soldering a wire to the cavity tape from the output jack is redundant but would not cause a ground loop. I am new to this so forgive if dumb question.
You are correct.
You are very correct that shielding only works on parts that run on unshielded wires, so won't work if the cavity cover is not shielded. If the metal foil works under the pickup, humbucker is much less meaningful except for a different tone.
Instead of copper foil, should HVAC aluminum tape and BBQ tin foil perform the same? I assume with the wide coverage, the resistance should pretty much be 0 ohm.
Those should work, the issue is getting them all connected where they overlap. It can be tricky soldering on aluminum. The copper tape is just much easier to work with.
True that copper is much easier to work with regarding soldering, and I agree the adhesive may not be conductive on aluminum tape. But since all potentiometer cases were grounded by wires, like mine I assume, and they are all screwed to the metal foil inside the cavity, the foil is already grounded, practically there's no need to solder the foils together, if separated pieces are used.
I like your video about pickup winding machine interested. In your plans to build 1 good design .
I dont know anything about electrics or grounding, but I do get noise from different venues and really want to try sheilding! Quick question, is there anyway I could mess it all up and it become dangerous to me?
Yes, you can.
Interesting video thank you! So, assuming we get a lot of relief from RF by doing this, can we assume that any remaining interference is coming directly from the pole pieces of the pickups?
Any part of the circuit that isn't grounded or isn't surrounded by grounded shielding will pickup interference.
I soldered my copper tape shielding(with a wire) to the back of my tone pot, but I saw people usually do it to the volume pot, but I didn't noticed a difference.
All you're doing is grounding the shielding. It doesn't matter where you connect the shielding to ground, it only matters that contact is made.
@HighlineGuitars the tone pot had a little more solder so I was able to solder the tinned wire in it easier then heat up the volume pot and add it, I almost did what you said and added to the ground of the output jack
I know this is a 2 year old video, I'm new at this, my question is does the black conductive paint work as well as the shielding tape?
Nice , your explanation is perfect and didactic.Thank you!
You are welcome!
A curiosity I've had on cavity shielding for a while now in terms of grounding. Wouldn't the cavity-to-components ground be completed from the pots, toggle switch, and output jack all making contact with the conductive surface of the cavity? I shielded a guitar about 15yrs ago and once I was finished I got a very loud 60-cycle whenever I'd touch the strings, pickups, etc. However, once I removed the ground wire that connected to the cavity and I was left with a shielded cavity with just a normal wiring setup the result I ended up with was a guitar that is so quiet that I almost can't tell if it's turned up or down. lol
Yes, as long as there’s a ground connection from the jack.
thanks for these kinds of videos. It's important to clear up confusion about confusing topics. Grounding has many confusions as there are 3 sorts of ground
Love that hat Chris!
Interesting thoughts! I have been using shielded wires for wiring instead of shielding copper for many years, but the shield as ground is a good argument !
The 3 way switch in a Les Paul is not shielded, so it can pick up noise even if you use shielded cable to connect it. This becomes quite noticeable when you split the humbuckers. So, any guitar with single coil pickups or splittable humbuckers should have shielded cavities along with shielded cabling.
The metal covers you see on pickups are made of a special alloy that resists magnetic eddy currents.
Some are, however, some are not. I look for covers made from nickel-silver.
Every guitar where I have COMPLETELY shielded all cavities with copper tape sounded lifeless because it always cut WAY too much of the high frequencies out of the guitar tone itself. Especially Stratocasters. If I buy a used one with a copper tape job inside I immediately tear that stuff out and *poof*, the guitar sounds 5X more open and clear. But I am wondering if there is some sort of way to "semi-shield" a guitar circuit? Basically any way to get some sort of noise reduction but not kill the inherent sparkle and tone of the guitar completely. This has frustrated me for years... Trying to find that magic balance.
Yank out all of the shielding and replace all of the wiring with single core, shielded wire (make sure one end of the wire’s shield is soldered to ground) or use an Electro-Harmonix Hum Debugger pedal.
Is this guy related to Steve Vai? The voice sounds almost exactly the same!!! Thanks for the vid btw.
Amazing video, very very informative. Much appreciated.
Excellent explanation. I'd be willing to purchase a schematic of your typical wiring especially showing your ground wire scheme.
I had a custom wiring schematic drawn for me by guitarelectronics.com/
I eliminated the ground wire connection (except where the ground is supplied by the jack) and used the copper foil to supply the ground connection to each component.
I believe there's some misconception here, a faraday cage/bag does not need to be grounded to be effective against EMF (but it doesn't hurt to have it grounded I suppose).
Sigh... any grounded component in contact with the shielding will ground the shielding. FYI, every component on the control cavity is grounded and is in contact with the shielding.
@@HighlineGuitars Yeah that’s true
Thanks for the great content. I have a question for which I couldn't find an answer anywhere. I use a guitar wireless system, so the guitar is not connected to the grounding of the electricity outlet by a cable. In this scenario, will I benefit from shielding my guitar to reduce the noise? And where does the noise end up in the first place when there is no connection to outlet ground, such as when using a wireless system?
No.
I'm using a wireless system as well and shielded 2 of my guitars (1 LP with humbuckers and an old Japanese Strat like guitar with 3 single coils). It did make a difference. Iirc the wireless system is using the negative of the battery as a kind of ground. Much like a cell phone or car. At least, that's what I understood. I wouldn't bet my money on it tho haha
Perhaps @shawn856 could explain if that's true?
I know you had a follow up video dispelling the ground loop myth. I will say that your pots are more shielded than open coil pickups and that if you’re using shielded wire for your whole guitar then you may not notice too much difference. Also, you should test just shielding the pickup cavity and nothing else vs no shielding at all. You will notice a difference. The pickups are what pickup most of the interference. Another thing is you don’t have to shield the entire control cavity. Just shield the underside where the pots sit then make sure your wires are laying on the shielding than lay a piece of shielding tape over the wire and this functions the same as shielded wire.
I have to put shielding where my customers will expect to see shielding.
thank you for the information, but if the ground from the pickups and the bridge is connected to the pots and the jack, isn't enough just to shield the electronics cavity without grounding the coper shield? and if the grounds are properly connected, is the shielding even necessary?
The copper has to be grounded to work. The need for shielding depends on the environment where you play.
thank you very much for your reply
So if the control cavity is shielded and connected to a grounded pot, and all cavities that have foil are connected to ground then the output jack only needs to be grounded to its cavity without a ground wire running all the way to the control cavity? Makes sense. I shielded my Strat and it’s dead quiet so I must’ve done it right. I paid the extra cost for copper foil because it’s a whole lot easier to solder to than aluminum. I tested that theory before shielding and there was no question copper is better. Also used the paint. Works but I’ll use tape from now on.
How do you find a ground loop? I've heard you cannot have one in your guitar.
Just wanting to clarify. If I have a prewired guitar grounded to back of the pot, can I run a cable from there to the coper tape? Or is it best to ground everything to the coper tape?
If the grounded pot is in contact with the copper shielding and all of the other components are in contact with the shielding, you don’t need to do anything else.
I prefer to use shielding paint, call me crazy, but I can feel some treble loss when using foil tape, especially in a strat.
You're not crazy as others have noted the same issue.
What if you play with a wireless system? Will grounding help at all?
That's a really good question. I'll have to investigate.
@@HighlineGuitars Thank you sir! Very much appreciated. Keep up the good work.
~Oldtop
Since an electric guitar circuit is passive, you don’t need to worry about ground loops. Active circuits are string ground free, and more safe.
More about this in my next video.
I also understand worrying about ground loops in guitar wiring is misapplying concepts, but it often promotes neat and tidy wiring and soldering, so yeah sure, why not stick to star grounding and things like that. :)
very clear
Fender custom shops don’t have copper shielding. Masterbuilts don’t either. None of their lines offer that. Why ??
Ask them. Here’s their email address consumerrelations@fender.com
Great information!
Great topic . Love the channel .
I have a recipe for graphite grounding paint or faraday paint (somewhere). It uses graphite and being slick may cause a lack of tack for the copper tape to adhere to. I need to test this first! But, if it does in fact work, is there or would there be any benefit to coating the cavities with grounding or faraday paint before applying the copper tape?
Copper tape is enough.
This is interesting but really it cannot actually be a Faraday cage because the pickups and parts of the switches and knobs are exposed. I am building a guitar now and wondering if its worth doing the tape or not.
You are right, it's not a true Faraday cage. That being admitted, shielding does work, but only when done properly and when the environment is plagued with RF interference. Shielding in a guitar usually can't attenuate 100% of the RF interference the guitar will be exposed to, but it can reduce it to a bearable level. The decision to shield or not really comes down to knowing how much RF interference exists where the guitar will be played. Proper grounding is key, however it can only do so much to attenuate RF interference. Any exposed component (pickups, signal wires) will act as an antenna for RF interference. Copper or aluminum foil tape will help to shield signal wires, but unless you cover the pickups in a grounded metal cover with no holes or other openings, they will attract RF interference.
I watched your CNC video and was just curious if you've tried compression bits. They are designed to work at a minimum depth as opposed to the upcuts and down cuts which have a depth limit.
No, I haven’t used them. I really haven’t felt the need.
I have always enjoyed your videos, but I have to point out that it is impossible to create a ground loop in a passive guitar circuit. There is no current and all grounds terminate at a single point (output jack). Additionally, in order to have a Faraday cage, you would have to completely enclose the circuit. However, this is impossible because the guitar pickups are exposed.
Tomorrow's video will explain.
@@HighlineGuitars I applaud your effort to wade into this topic. You are brave. People seem to get shielding from external noise sources and wiring to prevent ground loops confused.
@@HighlineGuitars just wanted to tell you that I enjoy your videos, and I really love your guitar builds! I have not built a guitar completely from scratch, mainly because I don’t have the facilities to do so. I live in an apartment, and I have a patio without a screen, so even painting is somewhat difficult.
Although Although, I have built numerous guitars from unfinished necks and bodies, andI think I do a excellent job for my circumstances, as I have received many compliments. I am a master at soldering, as I have been working with electronics since I was 14. Just over 37 years.
On top of that, the fact that I’m a woman, which for some reason, makes some people think that I’m at a disadvantage.
Would love to know how to get the copper shielding that you use.!
@@TarynnElizabeth619 amazon has it
@@lokispeicher8103 I looked, and realized that What I already bought from Amazon, is correct. Lol!
THX for posing very helpful
Tried to go to your site to look at what plans you have available. It seems to be down.
None of my sites are down.
i would guess that the reason that some pickups are noisier when the guitar is in a particular position than another is that there is a 'hole' in the shielding which is allowing more hum that is coming from the source of the strongest 60 or 50 hertz producing item...in most cases a transformer. I wonder if it would be a solution to put another transformer 180 degrees in orientation to the problem transformer to cancel out the hum.
Guitar pickups and their associated wiring act like antenna for hum.
yes, very helpful
would adding a small brass screw accomplish both grounding your cavity and add a post to ground your components?
Any conductive screw will work.
I want to shield my control cavity but I’m not sure I understand where the ground wire to the copper tape should be soldered to? To make a long story short, can I solder the wire to the top of any of my four pots? And lastly, should I shield the selector switch cavity as well and what about a ground wire to shielding in there too?
Solder the ground wire from the jack to the back of the closest pot. It doesn't really matter which pot, but the closest one to jack means a shorter wire, which is a good thing. As long as the pots are in contact with the shield, the shield will be grounded. Also, if all of the pots are in contact with the shielding, there's no need to run ground wires to each pot. The selector switch should be grounded by a wire running from the back of one the pots, which is grounded by its contact with the shielding in the control cavity. You don't have to shield the switch cavity, but it won't hurt. And as long as the switch is touching the shielding where it is mounted, the shielding will be grounded as well.
@@HighlineGuitars and where do you connect the ground wire to the bridge in this configuration ?
Do you need to shield the input jack?
No. If any part of the jack touches the shielding, it will short out the signal.
@@HighlineGuitars Thank you!
If you shielded a pickup with a metal backplate and metal cover (such as a soapbar style pickup), wouldn't you essentially mute the pickup? The point of the Faraday cage is to keep out signals, and the whole point of the pickup is to pick up the signal coming from the string.
No. A pickup is a transducer. It detects the string's mechanical vibrations and converts that energy to an electrical signal. Backplates and covers can block or mute some frequencies of vibration, but certainly not all of them. If they did, no pickup made would feature them.
The components within the control cavity really won’t act as an antenna.
I figured out a way to use regular ass HVAC, aluminum, duct tape. The stuff that all the RUclips videos told me I couldn't use. The same trick works for so many other things. You can run speakers, LED lights, temporary automotive wiring, and some grounds and you can run some stuff for hundreds of of feet. You can turn a 100' roll into 200, 300, 400 feet. When I finally figured it out and my multi meter was showing zero for continuity. I did my old 82 blazer that had always hummed and it's perfect. I then sent video to my buddy in California and he showed our friend who is a guitar tech. I hope he uses tf out of it.
I prefer copper because it's easier to solder to.
Ground loop on passive guitar electronic is just a myth. You can run ground wires over a copper shielding, that does not make a ground loop.
Sounds like you’ve never had to fix a noisy guitar by eliminating a ground loop. I have. Many times.
@@HighlineGuitars Electrically speaking, this is not a ground loop.
A lot of guitars are factory "double grounded". So, how could it not be a systematic issue ?
@@fenson6738 Obviously I need to make a video that explains what a true ground loop is and why they make noise. Stay tuned!
@@HighlineGuitars If you believe a ground loop can produce hum in guitar, please make sure that you actually record a physical loop actually producing excess noise. Just take one of your shielded guitars, and add the wire links between pots you suggested should be avoided. Record the noise level. Then cut the wires and record again. Many people hold that the potential difference in the ground lines necessary for a physical loop to cause current to flow and thus produce hum does not exist in a guitar.
@@vw9659 That's the plan. If I can find the time, LOL.
“………….,Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,……….”
Ground loops are not possible in the very low voltage present (millivolts in fact) in a guitar. An old tube amp that is not updated to current wiring standards can introduce noise and dangerous levels of voltage and current though.
Really? So when I purposely add a ground loop, I'm just hearing things?
The cavity for the selector switch on a Les Paul style guitar could benefit from shielding.
Yes, the 3-way switch is unshielded. If your guitar has splittable humbuckers, then the cavities should be shielded.
Very informative.
Thanks.✌️😊👍
This is great 👍🏽 thank you Chris
Is shielding required on both active and passive control cavities?
I like to use shielded wire, where ever there is a hot wire a ground wire should cover it and a shielding paint, it is to much of a hassle to apply the copper tape and connect them all.
Good info! Thanks!
Will aluminum foil tape work?
Yes, but you can’t solder to it.
Well my P Bass...if your finger touches the strings or the bridge or the jack/ cable it's quiet. But if you take your fingers/ hand away it's noisy. I have no such issue on my Telecaster or Strat. Just the bass.
Your P Bass has a grounding problem.
@@HighlineGuitars Oh yeah? As in the wiring?
@@oinkooink Probably. It’s hard to know for sure without inspecting it. Look for a detached wire or a missing bridge ground.
@@HighlineGuitars Thanks. The bridge ground...that's a wire to the bridge...from where?
Thank you for this info. I have an 85 Strat. When I strum and my finger tips touch the pick guard I hear little static discharge pops. Would it help to shield and ground the underside of the pick guard?
It might help. If it doesn't, you may have other grounding issues to troubleshoot.
@@HighlineGuitars thank you.
I'm barely qualified to answer your question, but it's possible you just have builtup static charges. It's winter and the air is getting dry, which is when this tends to happen. Try to find a dryer sheet that isn't scented and rub it on the outside surface of your pickguard. This sounds trivial but it genuinely works if static is the problem. I was experiencing this with my tele a few years ago and it was December at the time. Once I removed the static, the "popping" noises were gone. If that doesn't work, then you have a problem that is beyond my capabilities.
@@JacobVBurg thank you, I hadn’t thought of that but it makes sense to me. I appreciate your help and I’ll give it a try.
@@bornintherain Absolutely! Glad to help.
I use conductive paint on Poly guitars. I have two Nitro guitars that I'm going to use foil tape on because I don't want to ruin the paint if I get sloppy. Fender started shielding their guitars in 2006. You can check outlets with a cheap plug in outlet tester.
i anderstand that grounding the shielding of your guitar is a very important fact - does this mean, that if you plug in to a wireless signal transmission (radio) instead of a guitar cable, the shielding is useless?
I’m getting hum from the toggle switch on my epiphone Gibson, any recommendations. Other than scraping it. LOL.
Make sure it's grounded.
Very useful 👍
If you play high gain, shielding will help control hum or buzz. If you play clean tones, hum is not that much of an issue
Ballasts from florescent lights cause noise to get into an unshielded guitar.
can i ground my bridge to my copper shielded cavity?
Yes, as long as the shielding is grounded as well.
Shielding the pickups might help a little bit, but shielding the electronics does nothing. If you try to shield single coil pickups, it does very little because the cycle hum will always be there. You need a dummy coil or a mod to remove that.
I beg to differ. Shielding the electronics will work miracles especially if the connecting wires aren’t shielded.
@@HighlineGuitars I have never seen a situation in which shielding the electronics actually reduces noise, except obviously if someone wires the guitar wrong.
@@SomeCanine I have experienced it many times over the years.
@@HighlineGuitars Test it with an electronic device that causes noise. I think you will find that isn't the case.
@@SomeCanine Like my old 60 watt soldering iron? I have. Many times and shielding reduces the noise significantly.
What I like about Epiphone and Gibson already Shielded
UNLESS you split the humbuckers, which turns them into single coils.
Do I need to foil the inside of my hat?
These days, it wouldn’t hurt.
I read an article recently that claimed shielding single coil pickup cavities can actually take away some of the treble or brightness and is frowned upon by some. Ever hear of this? I wish I could recall the author of the article but my old age has been catching up to me lol.
Yes. It's not for everyone. You have to weigh the pros an cons.
My 90's deluxe plus is shield ed from the factory. Lace sensor pups. My Les Paul was not shielded from the factory and I changed the pots and wiring making sure to resolder the ground. Would all I need to do is stick some tape inside and that would shield a grounded system?
@@sparkyguitar0058 As long as the grounded pots are in contact with the shielding tape, that's all you have to do.
@@HighlineGuitars So then all that soldering talk is meaningless if shielding is some how anchored to main pots connection.
@@sparkyguitar0058 With respect to providing a ground connection to the shield, yes.
In my old two wire house I hear everything from ceiling fans to my neighbors power drill through my amp. I just tune it out. Got a highway i tune out nearby as well. Old tube amp. Sloppy wired pedalboard. Picking up radio signals is fun to me. So it depends on how much the user cares / environment / electrical situation / pickup choices if shielding matters
Great answer. Just ignore it. It was here in the 50's and they survived. Just cause it's now doesn't mean everything has to change.
I used to feel that the thin aluminum tape in the pick guards I've seen was a recipe for cheap circuitry (static from the plastic having an affect on the aluminum). I connect everything directly with wires. When I solder electronics, I make sure that the wires are directly in contact with the components and not rely on the solder to complete the circuit, also I try not to burn the solder leaving mirror shine on them. When you cook solder, it starts to look like crumpled up aluminum. That's why I don't pre-solder. A friend of mine was impressed by how well my guitar was grounded (absolutely no buzz or hum when I'm not touching my strings) and it has no shielding.
I got shielding paint more for aesthetics. I plan to paint the pickup cavity and add one coat of oil finish over it. I've never heard of ground loop but I do plan to paint the control cavity with shielding paint and then connect everything with wires so I will keep your info in mind and see if ground looping does happen.
So...in a Stratocaster the pickguard is the only part that need to shield as all strat or we can improve to shield other parts ?
Shielding the rest of the control cavity may help if done properly.
@@HighlineGuitars Thanks !!!